September 18, 2025 • 46 mins
What makes a leader truly worth following?
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr sits down with Jeremie Kubicek, co-founder of GiANT Worldwide, best-selling author of The 100X Leader and 5 Voices, and a globally recognized voice in transformational leadership.
Jeremie shares lessons from building businesses in post-communist Russia to shaping leadership cultures worldwide. He unpacks practical frameworks like the Support/Challenge Matrix and the Five Voices, showing how leaders can create alignment, multiply influence, and avoid the trap of “accidental leadership.”
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Connect with Jeremie Kubicek:
Website: jeremiekubicek.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremiekubicek
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr sits down with Jeremie Kubicek, co-founder of GiANT Worldwide, best-selling author of The 100X Leader and 5 Voices, and a globally recognized voice in transformational leadership.
Jeremie shares lessons from building businesses in post-communist Russia to shaping leadership cultures worldwide. He unpacks practical frameworks like the Support/Challenge Matrix and the Five Voices, showing how leaders can create alignment, multiply influence, and avoid the trap of “accidental leadership.”
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why most organizations underestimate the power of intentional people development
- How to know yourself, lead yourself, and develop others
- Why leadership is influence multiplied, not authority demanded
- How to use the Support/Challenge Matrix to transform team dynamics
- Practical ways the Five Voices framework builds trust and alignment
Connect with Jeremie Kubicek:
Website: jeremiekubicek.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremiekubicek
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
All right, welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. My
name is David Carr, founder of Steward Your Business here
with Jeremy Kouba Check. I'm super excited to have Jeremy here.
I've known Jeremy, he's the co founder of Giant for
a number of years. Welcome to the podcast. Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Good see David. I love your music Divide. Let's go, Man.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh Man. So glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
For those of you that have are listening, you've probably
heard me talk about some of these tools, Giant, five Voices,
five years, a whole bunch of these things over the
course of many podcast episodes. And I'm super excited to
have Jeremy here because he has been an influence of
my own leadership journey over the last few years, being
a Giant certified guide going back to twenty two twenty three,
(01:00):
and just being a part of a great community really
creating a multiplying effect. So super excited to get into
it with you here, Jeremy. You now have been an
author of a number of books, one hundred x Leader,
five Voices with Steve Cochran and now the Voice Driven Leader.
We're going to get into today share a little bit
about among other things, but I always love folks to
(01:22):
hear a little bit in your own words, Jeremy, your
kind of story about why you're at doing what you're
doing here from marketing and entrepreneurship kind of where you
work with John Maxwell. If you wouldn't mind just taking
our listeners back a little bit about your journey as
a business owner and a leader.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, thanks for having me and thanks for that.
So yeah, for those interested. When I was twenty one
years old, I moved from to all places. I moved
to Moscow, Russia, and it was right after the fall
of Communism, and I started economic school. It's the largest
private school in Russia. Day started an accounting training company
(02:01):
and a marketing consulting business and with a team, and
we had a team, and so what happened. It was early.
It was like Chicago in the thirties. I had a
client assassinated. We were in a coup attempt. We lived
at Bobb, a mafia group.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So my first book became a bestseller.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's called Leadership Is Dead. It was a Wall Street
Journal bestseller because of all the mafia stories probably in it,
and people it was just a fascinating period of time.
But what happened was I got to watch I studied
Russian history from World War two, their view of World
War two and versus the American view of World War
two fascinating and got to another perspective. Butt end of
(02:41):
the day, I had this big epiphany of watching what
seventy years of communism did to the people, and I
got to be with the people, and it realized that
it was a dominating culture of control and it led
to apathy and abdication. It didn't lead to empowerment, it
didn't lead to liberation. And so I started creating like
(03:03):
the support Challenge Matrix, one of our tools, and that
came the liberation domination concept. And I started just thinking
about people. And with me, I always think of three categories.
I think of Businesses are aligned around strategy, what's your
business plan, financial plan, how do you make money? And
then your people your talent and you have them. It's
(03:26):
a very crude, simple version of business. But you think
of those three areas. You think, well, if you have
a business plan and money and then you hope you
find good people, what does that do for you? Or
if you have money and people but no plan, or
if you have a plan and people but no money,
you have to have all three.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
They all have to go together, right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So I came out of that situation at a very
young age with a.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Different perspective than most people did. And then I went on.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And what's hard to explain is I my dad said,
in your twenty it's not what you do, is who
you work for that's most important. So I found a
liberator and I worked for this guy named Can Humphreys,
and he shaped me and changed me. And then he
sold and I worked for the private equity group and
they were a dominator group, not a liberator group. But
(04:15):
I go to experience good and bad from both sides,
and we bought. I was a part of acquisition team.
We bought seventeen companies in three years. I started three
dot coms. So by the time I was thirty, I
think i'd started I don't know five six companies had bought,
you know, as a part of private equity for a
(04:36):
number of years, and.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I'd just done a lot at that age.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So that gave me a very perspective as an ambitious
business person.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
This whole framework of the importance of all three you.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Have to have a business model, you have to have
a financial plan, you have to have a people development system.
And then as I started to build a growth advisory
business called Giant Growth Consulting Firm, that's what we started
coaching people on and we realized that it's easy to
get a business plan, and it's easy to have a
financial plan, easier to get work, get in a room
(05:12):
and think about it with some smart people. But the
hardest thing is people. And people always screw up the
business plan, They always screw up the financials in some way.
And so if you don't get ahead of it, if
you don't think strategically about people and talent and building
your bench, they'll always undermine your plans. And so that
(05:35):
shifted me to overemphasize people development because it's very easy
to do some of these other tasks.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So that a long answer, Yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's that's great, and I think it's important for our
listeners to hear you guys. So Jeremy has a long
history here working with companies, getting them up and running
and is seeing where the challenges are. And I think, Jeremy,
what I've I've seen you and why I love having
you on the podcast is because the business owners want
to to go to those they I don't know for
what reason. At times they I mean, we can get
into this a little bit, but they are like, well,
(06:05):
I don't want to touch the people issue. Let's just
do an their system or a process or another plan.
And it's like the value that they'll get from investing
and building what you've done through the culture is there's
much more dividends, there's much more benefit of the long haul.
But that does take some intentionality, which we'll get into today.
And I think where we see the business owners and
the businesses that are actually winning in the long haul
(06:28):
of how they've incorporated that. And I know Giant has
done empowering guides like myself and working with big, well
known companies and how they differentiate themselves, particularly today with
technology and other things out there. How do you differentiate
yourself in the marketplace? It is the people, right.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And so I went on and we bought John Maxwell's
assets and then verge them into Giant, and then we
partnered with people like Pat Lancioni and Hinry Cloud and
all these great thought leaders and they're amazing people, that
really are, and we started helping them build their businesses
and scale. But we kept running into another issue, which
(07:05):
is how people learn. And we started seeing the twentieth
century model in the twenty first century model. And I
used to run these brands, the Catalyst Conferences, Leader Casts,
some of the largest leadership events in the world for
that period of time. And it was bothering me because
it was like, Okay, we're one and done. Everything in
(07:25):
the past was butts and seats, selling books, so people
would learn from events and books. They don't learn that
way in the twenty first century. Everything is visual and
the next generation they learned through YouTube videos. They learned
through watching and observing and conversations. So Steve and I
formed a partnership and we said, let's go after changing
(07:48):
the way people development happens. But it has to start
with a mindset from the owner the leader to start
treating people as an asset, not a liability. And so
and then and then there was another misnomber that happened
in the Good to Great book, which is awesome, and
Jim Collins is a friend we used to work with Jim.
(08:10):
Jim was awesome and that book was one of the
most it still is one of.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
The best books.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But in the book, he makes this comment of like
get the right people on the bus, right, that's it,
get the right people on the bus.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So even like in EOS.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Or some other places, people have this misnumber of like,
well we just got to get the right people. Just
just hire and find the right people.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We'll find them.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean like that's great, yes, yes,
but that's like that's just the beginning. It's like, how
do we pull they bring their culture into your culture
good and be a great person and be a know
it all and completely disrupt your team and your culture.
(08:56):
So it's not just get the right people, but actually
develop those people into your culture, your systems, your standards
so that they bring their best into your best. So
let's not just find good people and it all works out.
And I think that's this number for a lot of entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
No, I agree, And as I talked to you know, Jeremy,
I talked to executive recruiters, talent sourcers, right, They're like,
I can find you some great people, but what's your culture?
How are you integrating them into what you have? And
a lot of companies I hear them say, we struggle
with the success of those people staying with those companies
and they're great people that we recruited them. There was
(09:33):
there was an intention of like how do we integrate
them over the long haul? And even you and I
know and in businesses, when you come in in a
certain role too, hopefully the good business is growing and developing.
That means your role and responsibilities are going to likely
shift as the company shifts and grows. And if you
don't know how to do that, well, we start to
live in an like use an unhealthy culture is what
(09:55):
I've seen. Or people just want to hold into the
little spaces or I know this this control and it
doesn't have it doesn't create a space where people want
to come and be a part of over the long haul.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yes, So then it is this, it's the idea of assimilation.
So finding talent and assimilating them and then leveraging them
to become the most effective they possibly can. So I
had the privilege of also working in the sports world,
and I worked with a lot of college athletes and
(10:31):
a lot of coaches, and then I've worked with some
coaches at Alabama, University of Oklahoma, we work with Florida
State lots of other places, Assissippi State, and we're constantly
training the coaches on the concept of what is culture
and culture is atmosphere, and you can't bring in a
(10:51):
disruptive player can disrupt the atmosphere very very quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So the culture dynamics.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And I'll also brag on my team, the Oklahoma City Thunder,
Oklahoma City Thunder basketball team that I'm from, you know,
but they've done such a good job on culture building
because they understand the locker room and the practice mindset
and the locker room mindset and then will show up
on the game day mindset. And so if you're listening
(11:20):
to this and you're like, you know, yeah, tell me more,
what we're saying is you have to apprentice talent, you
have to develop talent, and you're constantly working themselves up.
I have a good friend who is on the board
of Quick Trip and their gas station chain. They're like
the Chick fil A of gas stations, and they have
(11:44):
this phrase, a leader readiness Trump's opportunity, and so they
won't open a new location until they have their too
deep of their teams, their first and second line have
to be fully developed and fully ready to be able
to start a newation. So and so how do they
(12:05):
train people? Well, they have this massive org chart and
they are constantly like, hey, let's move David.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
He might be a CFO candidate. Let's give him one
year over here. So they move him over here for
a year.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Then they move you over here, so you get all
of this experience to get you ready because they're developing
four or five, six, seven layers deep for their future growth.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
The problem with most business owners and leaders is they're
so in the weeds. And I get it, but I've
started thirty something companies. I'm like, I understand, there are
you know, just getting in the weeds. You've got to
make the donuts. You've got client issues, you've got lawyers,
you've got accounts, you get your reports, you've got your
(12:49):
all the things you've got to start. And then once
you do start, then you've got the minutia of every day.
You might have issues at home. All these things affect
to you. But what typically gets taken off the priority
list is the development of the people. Yes, and that's
what we're really really focusing on in this next season
(13:09):
within Giant, even deeper than we were out.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, and I love Jeremy speak a little bit about this.
You've worked with so many different organizations, so sometimes I
feel like speaking a little bit about having that third
party come in and look at kind of lift up
the hood of the car, come in, because they're like, well,
we could figure this out ourselves. We could just do
this ourselves. Speak a little bit about the value of
having somebody outside your organization come in and take a look.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Okay, so well I'll go big and then I'll go small. Yeah,
so big.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I worked for Ford with Ford Motor Company in two
thousand and eight, nine ten, and Alan Malali came in,
So you got a brand new culture keeper. Okay, so
he was. He came from Boeing. There was the eight
nine ten recession. He came in, and when we did,
he needed.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
An outside forced help him with his culture because they
didn't have They couldn't see it because when you live it,
you only know what's in your walls.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's like you don't have vision for it. Like let's
say I went to your house right now. If I
came into your house right now, I bet you I
could make two major changes and probably ten minor changes.
I might say, David, did you know your shoes are
right here you and you're like, oh my gosh, no
I even noticed that because you just live.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
That's just where the shoes go. Yeah, but could you
move in the closet? Yeah, I mean yeah, I probably could.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So the outside eyes give you perspective, right, And so
this week I've been so Ford basically brought me in
and then we brought a team in and we built
we built their supplier relations and their dealer relations program.
And he wanted to reset the culture between Ford and
(14:54):
the dealerships. And he called it a love campaign. And
we helped build a love campaign four Ford, and we
built the tools, we built the systems with the process
and he and so we were the ones who helped
to get that, uh.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And it changed, it changed the culture. Their scores went
up all these different things.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, this week I was in a place called Cinnamon Shore.
Cinnamon Shore is on the coast of Texas. It's in
the Gulf.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It is on.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Mustang Island. And the friend of mine is the developer
and they have gosh, I don't know, five hundred plus
houses on the ocean and they're gorgeous and it's it's
like it's a it's an ermit. It's a planned community, yeah,
golf arts and it's a resort, and but they they
needed another set of eyes. So they've asked me to
(15:46):
come in and work with them on the customer journey.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And there's three or four different.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Customers and on the employee journey, and because they want
to get better. They're really good, but they want to
get better. So, you know, so I drove in and
I'm like, so, is that golf cart supposed to be there?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Why?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Why move? Why is the maintenance cart right there? Could
it be somewhere else? And by the end of the
day they are like, oh my gosh, we didn't even
thought of it. It's like the shoes, Yeah, this other
little spot. And what if you had a sign that
says the you know, welcome to peace in Paradise or
(16:27):
some phrase that really you know, what if it was
right there as you drive in, there's this opportunity just
to get it.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Right there, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And so the idea is a journey. What is the
journey of a customer? What is the journey of an employee?
And walk step into their shoes And when you start
stepping into their shoes, you start realizing, Okay, this is
how an employee feels right now, they're coming in with
high confidence and low competence.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
They don't know what to do, but they're excited.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, and so they and they think I got chosen,
I'm here, let's go.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And so how do you take them through that foundation stage?
How do you onboard them?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And then you know how they You do the work
and they watch you. Well, now you get them to
you do the work and they help you. So how
do they start getting immersed into their world? And then
you start to going through the development square? And then
all of a sudden, there's this opportunity that can fall
into the pittancepare and their confidence goes so low and
(17:30):
their competence is still low that they can help select.
So you have to lead them into the engagement stage,
which is rising confidence, rising competence, and you have to affirm.
But you have to do it based on their wiring,
their personality and your personality. And that's where it gets.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Super complicated, but super doable if you figure it out
and we think we've solved it. Yeah, basically, here's the voices,
here's the tools. Now, here's the roadmap, here's the journey
you're trying to take every employee on and if.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You can get them through the square, they become an asset,
and then they become what you've always hoped they would become.
Most people just hire people and if they don't become it,
they fire them and then try to find another one
and another one, and it just becomes a turnover factory.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh man, so many great nuggets there, Jeremy that you
just brought up, you know, and and as one that
has been in that space of what you said, I
didn't know that way, and I didn't work with the
company that didn't quite understand how to do that, and
I started my own personal journey of like discovery. And
(18:46):
I think, you know, you say this often is like
how do we know ourselves to lead ourselves? Uh and
do it well? And I think it's challenging. And I
think a lot of businesses that I found sometimes they
don't want to, especially if it's a small company, very
small as this owner is, just to hire people that
are just basically the same voice of them because they
feel like they talk with the same language. I don't
understand the value of getting these other voices in there.
(19:07):
And it is complicated, it's a little messy in there,
and you've created these great frameworks and tools over the years,
and you now have a new book coming out of
The Voice Driven Leader, which I'm super excited about. I
was telling you my preiod of my copy already, so
I'm excited to get that. And I know we're going
to be talking about that Voices twenty five later on
in this coming up. But you know, talk a little
(19:29):
bit more about where we're at along this leadership journey.
Why did you why this book now? And you talk
a little bit about this development square, but you know
you've done a lot, but what makes this unique? Where
are we going here? You know, I know we're I'm
curious as a guide myself because if the leadership and
the tools you've ringing. But yeah, yeah, yeah, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Let's go into the companies that master people development will
have a competitive advantage in the future. We're going to
be managing half the half of people's team will be
bots or agents and half will be real. Half will
be machines and half will be real. So if you
(20:12):
think about the dynamics, then we've got to have astute,
strong people and strong teams. Well, so this morning I
was with a treasurer of a state treasurer and helping
him with his team. And I was meeting with them
and I explained, so, how many employees you have? He's
(20:33):
got well, fifty in this register in this treasurer's office
the state capitol. All right, fifty five or something. How
many people lead people? Got seven? So seven managers of people?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
All right?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Then the number one thing you need to do is
you need to train them because they're the most important
people in your organization. They are your shirpa. They're the
ones that get you up the mountain. So he was
getting it. It's like that makes total sense. Meaning in
Mount Everest, you have one person leading six people up
(21:10):
the mountain. Without sherpa, the guy couldn't take fifty people up.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
There's no way.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
But by distributing it, now you've got these well that
sharpa need to be the healthiest people in your organization.
So if you're listening to this, how many people will
lead people in your company? Make that list and draw circles.
If you have ten, let's say you have ten, draw
ten circles, put the name of every person in there,
each individual circle, and then give them a score. Half
(21:37):
the circle is performance one through ten. How would they
do in this case? This morning, he gave one of
his leaders a nine on performance, meaning how good a job.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Does she do? And he gave her an eight on leadership.
Pretty high.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Nine to eight out of ten ten is the highest.
The average when I've been doing this for the last
four or five years, average has been six to four.
The average SHIRPA score has been they perform at six
out of ten.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Now leadership is the other side. So performance is.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
One, leadership is the other four out of ten. So
how's that working for you? If your shirpa, your people
who lead people are six fours, right, Well, a six
is a D on the grading scale and a four
is failing. So if you think you have six to four,
then they are not effective leaders. So what has to
(22:33):
happen to get them to an eight in performance and
a seven minimum in their leadership? If you get a
seven seven or eight seven, you've got a really solid team.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That's a really good team. You can do a lot.
So that's the game. The entire game is now to
develop your SHIRPA. So you then need to know, well,
who are you?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, David and I are connectors, So if we're connectors,
and that's we're the leader and we're on boarding people.
We're not the best in onboarding because we may not
give enough detail. Yep, we will definitely give enough raw rah,
like oh man, it's so good to have you. We're
(23:14):
doing this and this, and we.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Will definitely overload them on vision. So we'll give them vision,
we'll give them excitement, we'll give them love, but the
detail of like what's your password, how do you sign in?
What's the process? Oh, it's just that's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Ask Cindy, she'll take care of ask Tracy, right, So
we'll ask the guardians to take care of it. So
then the onboarding process and then when we take them
to the immersion stage sometimes it's like, well it's hard
for us to delegate. We're not the best delegators because
we kind of like to do it ourselves or we.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Hope that you figured it out.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So the point is is this is whoever you are
as the leader, who are they? You have to know
yourself and that's the power of five voices and David,
you can share the link and.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
All this stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, the power of.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Knowing who you are is one thing. Then you need
to know who they are, and who's they it's your shurpa,
or it's any employee that comes on. If you are
the sharp, any of your new employees, well if you're
if you're a connector and they're a nurturer, there's clues.
It's called the voice driven leader. Lead based on how
they want to be onboarded based on how you on board.
(24:34):
So if I no, I'm with a guardian, They're gonna
have a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I need to do the.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Work to give them everything they need so that they're successful,
so they're onboard in that first month or two so
that they can be the most effective and ultimately get
them to the engagement. But if I run ahead of them,
which most connectors will do, I leave them in the dust,
and then they get frustrated, and then I'm frustrated with them.
(25:00):
Now we've got an employee issue all because I didn't
lead them based on who they were. I was leading
based on who I am.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yes, and and and it's natural I think what I
like about the five voices Jeremy, and there's a great breakdown,
And like Jeremy said, I'll give you guys a link
to the five Voices assessment. You guys can take it
down there. There's a component of nature and nurture and
choice and how we show up here. And to your point, Jeremy,
you're saying, you know, how we show up naturally, But
then how do we learn how to be with these
(25:30):
other folks? It can be learned and and how can
I how can I better interact with them. I was
just talking with a client today about that who his
he's a nurturer and his wife's a guardian and why
he's all about relational harmony and just make sure everybody's okay,
And she's just frustrated and like, can you just tell
me the specific thing this is what I need to
high challenge and like he didn't understand that. Who was
(25:52):
like trying to ask you all these questions and she's
getting frustrated and she's like, just I just need this
and and so there can be you know, and that's
I mean, this is not just a work we're talking about.
This is a home marriage relationships, right, It goes across
the board.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Kids, the whole bit.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and it's so interesting because you know, again back
to Jim Collins, so we got the right people on
the bus. Great, what I'm trying to say, is that's
just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Where do we try? Where are we trying to take them?
What do we want? What are our expectations? What are
they supposed to do? What's their role? Clarity? How do
they win? How do other people know how they win?
So the journey we've.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Tried to make it now super simple. Okay, great, you've
got a good employee.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Awesome, Who are they? Well? Who are you? You know
your person? Who are they? Are they a guardian? Are
they a nurturer? Are they a creative, a pioneer, another connector?
Who are they? Once you know who they are, it's
a clue. Now let's give you a roadmap. You're in
foundation stage, onboarding stage. Now you're an immersion stage. Let's
(26:58):
avoid let's avoid the pititans, fair, Let's get them into
the engagement stage. Let's get them into the multiplication stage.
That entire development process is a minimum of a year minimum.
It will take probably two or three years honestly to
build an unbelievable teammate. And then once they are, then
(27:20):
they can start multiplying other people.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And now that but we've given we're actually built a
roadmap so that people who've got good people on the
bus now know.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Where to go.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
And I think that's where I think that's what's missing
in most leadership because most leadership books is just a
bunch of motivational jargon, and it's a bunch of it's
all about be a better performer, awaken the giant within
all these things that are for you.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
But it's that's that's you. To be a climber, not
to be a Shurpa has to.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Be healthy and perform. But they have to help people perform.
They have to help people climb, and that's what leadership
is about.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Jeremy so Well said, And I think you know, you've
worked with a lot of private equity and building the
terms and when I've heard a lot of as I
look at people that are either wanting to exit or
or potentially buy a company, to your point, they're actually,
look what's that leadership team? Look like? What's the dynamic?
Especial when we're talking a professional services in particular, because
your point of like this is not health, I mean
(28:23):
what am I actually buying as a company? You know,
especially if that leader is key and they're gonna they
want to step out and they're like, who, what's this team?
And to your point, most of the time, that's what
what I've talked with folks that are doing exits, like,
it's going to take us two three plus years to
get your company in a good, good enough shape, right,
so to get all.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Those time, yeah, totally and land and Lyunch one of
our giants. We're working with a couple of private equity
groups right now. And and in private equity they have
two they have three years and then three to five
years they'll turn and sell the business to the next group.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So their job is always three years.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, but they love talent, they just want it to
be developed by the leader. So the best leaders will
always build their bench. They just have a shorter time
period to do so.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And you can do it. You can. You can speed up.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You can hire some all stars and then you bring
them in and then but the job is simple. Who
are your SHIPA where are they now? What needs to
happen to get them to an eight seven or an
eight eight?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
That's it. So now, if you understand performance and leadership,
we're giving you clues on how to speed up the
development process. But there's still work to be done in
the development process. You still have to do.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
But if you as a if you're an entrepreneur or
an owner, it's all about shurpe training. Spend all of
your time on shurpet training. They'll take care of.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
The rest of the employees. I think that's a misnomerate.
A lot of people will just go, well, we have
you know, we do an annual retreat, do an annual
one day of training. Check.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That doesn't mean anything, no, no, no, yeah, But why do
you have Why are you like a sieve.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
And your back doors open?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And you know, no one likes Tom over here because
Tom is an eight in performance and a two in leadership,
but he makes money for the company. We don't want
to lose him. But he's killing your employees and he's
killing your culture internally, so you got to You gotta
remember culture is atmosphere, and if you're the leader, you're
(30:32):
the keeper of the atmosphere. You are leaders define the culture,
but your sub leaders, your shirpa, are subculture leaders. They
define the subculture. And if you have eight leaders, you
have eight subcultures. And those subcultures they need to be
a majority positive. But if you get six subcultures that
(30:55):
are negative and people don't love uh to work or
they don't. You know, if you've got if they're undermining you,
you're you're gonna be underwater very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh man, Yeah, Jeremy, to your point, I mean you're
just bringing in story now. This is Unfortunately they didn't
have employees with subcontractors, but they was working on a
very big project, complicated project, Jeremy, and they heard for
a big project, these independent contractors, and to your point,
that's exactly what happened. Like I'm gonna run this this big,
(31:26):
big project, environmental project. I'm gonna run my little section here,
I'm gonna run it this way. And it was just
a nightmare of people colliding with each other.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And that's where if if you get on the other
side of the talent gap, where you start getting to
the place where you have confidence. And that's what most
business owners want. They just want peace, Like can we
just get something that works? Can we get aligned and
just execute?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah we can. But you have to
build your surf and and you have to deal.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, well, we've got my cousin's brother involved and we
can't lose him. I'm like, yeah, yeah, all that needs
to go. All the nepotism. You've got to get it
to the point of leaders define culture. If you want
a great culture, you have to bring support and challenge.
But that challenge you've got to set it up correctly.
(32:23):
Work on your shirpa. Your shirpa great sherpa.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Will will lead unbelievable teams.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
The problem is no one wants to follow the asthmatic shirpa,
right like the unhealthy shurpa. People are like, oh my gosh,
I'm on Tom's team. How do I get off and stop?
And that that person. And now I would tell I
would say to owners, be belligerent about your shirpa, like
(32:51):
train them, but they need to be above a five
to five for sure in both the moments and leadership
and in either give them the chance to get there
or move them on and get a new sharpa in place.
But once you have seventy five percent of your shirpa
that are healthy and moving, now you can move the needle.
(33:12):
Now you can start seeing things really really happen. But again,
I think there's just so much.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like I love EOS.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
EOS is awesome, but it's so misses on people development
because it's just it's just like we'll just get good
people and then follow our system. They're like, yeah, well
who are they? Are they a guardian? Are they a nurturer?
Like you got to know a lot. There's a lot
more that goes into it, but eos.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
With Yes, I love working with the implementers.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah, get over if they can, if they install the
people section of it.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, I agree with you, Jeremy. And it's it's it's
so important and the tools that you've created. And I
really like how you said this earlier on is that
how people are experiencing things. Why I was pulled to
the Giant O West platform was you know that the
the videos, the resources in there, tied with like a
guy I like myself because what I found is people
(34:12):
even like you said, maybe go to an annual you know,
retreat or something, or watch a video or read a book.
It can be helpful. I mean, they'd be helpful, but
it's like somebody else that's coming through. Like what we're
doing is building the relationship, building the muscle memory, and
that takes time. It's like I don't both go to
the gym and I'm super strong and I've got it
all dialed in. This is an ongoing thing week after week,
month after month.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Right, it's it absolutely and when you when you are
consistent and put together that again, that's that's back to
quick trip. You're building layers of depth. Like imagine if
you're listening to this and you go, we're four or
five six deep, I could plug and play anybody at
(34:53):
this position. Wouldn't that be amazing? Most people are not
one deep, you know. And so building your bench and
having it so what it requires. It requires you as
a leader to slow down to speed up. It requires
you to stop long enough to get a game plan
and know yourself. Then you start with yourself. Here's who
(35:15):
I am. Oh my gosh, I'm a pioneer connector. I
just I run past people.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I go too fast and that's why I'm always having
these turnover issues. Okay, got it? Good?
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Now who are your shurpa? How deep are you right now?
Be honest, I've got four sherpa. We're an average of.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Five to five.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I got to get a stronger group of shurpa. Great, yes, Now,
how do we get to sherpa to start leading their people?
And what's the development plan for them? So we got
to train them to develop. So there's a system there's
a process. And that's what this next book, the Voice
Driven Leader, all it does is here's the crisis development crisis,
(35:57):
here's the development system. Are like, how do you actually
develop people? And then here's the system that you put
in place, and it gives you all that and then
we've created on top of that Five Voices AI. We
actually have it now to such a degree all you
have to do is ask questions of it and hey,
how do I take a nurture connector through the immersion stage.
(36:22):
If I'm a pioneer, it walks you through, it helps
you in addition to it. So that's we're trying to
give every resource possible.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
For people to actually not have any excuses.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, Jeremy, So you guys, we're going to make sure
everybody the book is actually available for prego now on
Amazon and all those good places. We'll make sure that
the link is in there, and like I said, the
five Voices Assessment, so you guys can actually go in
there and start checking this stuff out now. And I
like how, Jeremy, you said this too. There's where you're
a way of quantifying there's different ways that we can
(36:55):
quantify that through the team performance assessment. There's other ways
and that we can go through and and I'm excited
to go in and even further Jeremy, as you were
explaining in the book here of how to walk folks
through this journey, because I think sometimes people get a
little frustrated with like, oh, these are soft skills, how
do we quantify this? Get how do we go wrap
our arms around it? But you've spent a lot of
time in an effort creating a helping us break down
(37:17):
from alignment, rational trust or how we're executing and our
capacity all of that stuff in a very you know,
very thoughtful way, and it works. We know that this
works when we break it down absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, and yeah, we've been doing this for way too
long and when people get to it, they just appreciate
the simplicity.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We made it simple enough our thirteen year old. And
just a side note, I did this.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
My kids are all in their twenties, but I started
with my kids when they were ten twelve years old
on the tools and then the five voices, and it
changed the dynamic at home. So my wife, when she
found out she's a guardian, I knew that she's a guardian, nurturer,
I'm a connector, so we're nemesis voices and we have
a creative daughter, we have a guardian son and a
(38:02):
nurturer daughter. Once we figured out who they were, we
started speaking their language and it changed the relational dynamics
between us. We started pouring in and they started to
open up and accept us, apprenticing and developing our own
kids so much so that we've developed a plan of
how do you take them through every year thirteen's year
(38:25):
of identity, fourteen, year of relationship, fifteen every year to
get them to launch at eighteen. So we created that
system because we're intentional, all because we knew who they were.
And you know, that's the beauty of it. Most everyone
just wants to be known. And once you're known you
and they see that you're trying, they will appreciate you,
(38:49):
and they'll have you'll have more influence in our life,
and then they'll run through walls for you. And then
the person that people want to follow and not have
to follow.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And there's a big difference between those two.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Big difference, And I want to just acknowledge that, Jeremy.
I mean, I've got to meet your wife, Kelly. I
will as part of Giant. I've actually seen this at firsthand.
So this isn't you know. I've got to know Steve Cochran,
who Jeremy and Steve have worked together, lived together, gone
through things life together. So this is true. And this
is what I love about the Giant community and working
(39:21):
with other guys and why we're so passionate about liberation
and helping people. And Jeremy, why I have you here
on the podcast. I know we're gretting close, and the
time on the podcast I definitely could go longer.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
You know, are both.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Connector voices for those of you don't know what's funny
as you're saying that too, Jeremy, my wife's a guardian
nurture as well, and so it's like, well we had
these conflicts, now we're creating a better space of understanding
and appreciation for one another. So so important.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, yeah, we And so you know the way we started.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
We moved to London and we moved in the manor
house and Steve Cockraman had his family and we had
one family in two different wings of this old state
and then we would bring people over and it was
like an experiment. We did it for nine months.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
It was. It was amazing. But we got to learn
our kids and know each.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Other and you know, and then we'd have people come
and do retreats and it was just like, uh, it
was like magic, you know. And the thing is, once
we've just built the five voices to be simple enough
again for a thirteen year old to get it, but
once you do, you'll never forget it versus you know.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
The other day, I was literally with someone and he goes.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, I have done myerspread because I'm like, yeah, what
are you? And he was joking because he could remember it.
He goes, I'm an ESPN and we're like and we're like, yeah,
he goes, I honestly can't remember, but it was good.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
I can't remember. And we've tried to get well. Once
you know, if you're a connector, you'll never forget that.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
If you know you're a pioneer, you'll never forget that.
You'll at least you'll know your foundational voice. And that's
what we're trying to do, is like help people know
themselves so they can lead themselves. Then help them to
know other people so they can help them lead them
And when you do that, well, gosh, it's way better
than being accidental. You avoid some of the issues that
(41:15):
most business leaders have because they're accidental with their leadership.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
And that's the whole point of this podcast. We don't
want you to be accidental. We want you to be intentional.
Jeremys and and Steve Cockerman and then the team at
Giant have just amazing tools and resources. That's why I
got certified as a guide. Five voices for teams and
and and helping you be more impactful. As we're wrapping
up the podcast, Jeremy, I like to always give our
(41:41):
our guests an opportunity, if you know, as we've covered
a lot of ground here today, just you know, last
maybe thought or action that somebody can do that you
you would say, hey, if you did nothing else, if
you took nothing else from this podcast, and you listen
to this today, I you know, hopefully you will. You'll
walk away with this you know, thought or action.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, I would hope that you'd be super, super curious
to figure out who you really are. So going to
take the five voices. It's going to tell you what
happens to you understress, Where do you tend to go,
what are your patterns and actions, and you'll find if
you take it in the right spirits, you're taking the assessment.
(42:23):
Don't take it based on who you think you should be.
I don't want to know who you play on TV.
We want to know who you really are. And so
if you just take it and go, oh my gosh,
this and then you read it and soak in it,
you'll probably find is probably we hear this. I don't
know ten thousands of times, you know, we've we've had
(42:44):
there's a lot a lot of people take this and
they'll go, oh my goodness like that.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I've seen people cry. I've seen my own kids read
report and.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Cry because it's like, this is me, this is me.
And once you do, then there's something that happens. You
have to give yourself grace and truth. You bring support
and challenge in this process. So I hope you would
want to know who you are. But because once you
know who you are, you'll start going, well, I want
(43:14):
to know who David is.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
I want to know who my wife. I want to
know who there is.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And then once you get to know who they are,
then the voices are like languages. Then you just learn
to speak their language. When I used to live in Europe,
I would go all over Europe and I've lived in
Europe twice. And when i'd go into France, you know,
I would try enough French because the French at a cafe,
(43:39):
you know, probably food front say, and you know they're
they're asking, and I'm asking for you know, can I
have a cup of coffee and the nicest trying to
do French. But because I'm trying, they at least appreciate it,
versus if I'm like coffee, coffee black, no sugar, that's
guaranteed spit in the cup. Right, So it's like it's
(44:01):
like the idea is when I attempt to know another
person's voice and I have to show it, they'll let
their guard down because they'll appreciate it. They'll see that
I'm trying to get to know how they operate and work.
And once I do, it's like cracking code. Now I've
got an opportunity to turn them into an asset, not
(44:22):
a liability.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So that's the game.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yes, I love that. Yeah, you guys will have that
in there. The five Voices Assessment absolutely free. You guys
can check that out. Learn what your foundational voice is. Jeremy,
I want to just thank you for sharing your wisdom,
your story, your heart, where you're at, where Giant is.
And I really love that this conversation reminds us that
culture doesn't shift just because there's like lofty visions or
(44:47):
big slogans, but it's really when the shurpas, the team
leaders are equipped with clarity, courage, they're consistency, they're getting
after and appreciating who they are and who else is
on their team. So I just super excited about that.
And then for those of you that you know, if
this sparked you know something for you today, I want
to make sure that you guys go check out the
new book Jeremy and Steve Coachman, The Voice Driven Leader.
(45:10):
It's coming out. Here's what's the date when it's actually going.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
To be released in October?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
In October eighteenth something like that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Okay, it may say November on in Amazon, but it's
really October.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
There you go, So go check that out. Uh, And
you know, we would love to have you back. Jeremy.
You've been great here. You own our connected on LinkedIn
as well. Jeremy can be check dot com Giant worldwide
you can find Jeremy. He's all he's out there. I
really appreciate you being here a Jeremy on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Thank you, David, appreciate what you're doing. I love the
word steward by the way, oh thank you. It's a
great word. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Well, you know that that comes from the place of, hey,
our people, right, we take care of our people, our great,
greatest asset. And you know we only we all have
a responsibility along this journey. And then so I think
as business owners, what to you, what you said is like,
we want help help you take care of your people.
I love it. Yeah, awesome. Thank you everybody for being
(46:07):
on the podcast with Jeremy and I. Please of course
like subscribe, follow us along. We appreciate you and until
next time, be well. Thanks everybody,
All right, welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. My
name is David Carr, founder of Steward Your Business here
with Jeremy Kouba Check. I'm super excited to have Jeremy here.
I've known Jeremy, he's the co founder of Giant for
a number of years. Welcome to the podcast. Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Good see David. I love your music Divide. Let's go, Man.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh Man. So glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
For those of you that have are listening, you've probably
heard me talk about some of these tools, Giant, five Voices,
five years, a whole bunch of these things over the
course of many podcast episodes. And I'm super excited to
have Jeremy here because he has been an influence of
my own leadership journey over the last few years, being
a Giant certified guide going back to twenty two twenty three,
(01:00):
and just being a part of a great community really
creating a multiplying effect. So super excited to get into
it with you here, Jeremy. You now have been an
author of a number of books, one hundred x Leader,
five Voices with Steve Cochran and now the Voice Driven Leader.
We're going to get into today share a little bit
about among other things, but I always love folks to
(01:22):
hear a little bit in your own words, Jeremy, your
kind of story about why you're at doing what you're
doing here from marketing and entrepreneurship kind of where you
work with John Maxwell. If you wouldn't mind just taking
our listeners back a little bit about your journey as
a business owner and a leader.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, thanks for having me and thanks for that.
So yeah, for those interested. When I was twenty one
years old, I moved from to all places. I moved
to Moscow, Russia, and it was right after the fall
of Communism, and I started economic school. It's the largest
private school in Russia. Day started an accounting training company
(02:01):
and a marketing consulting business and with a team, and
we had a team, and so what happened. It was early.
It was like Chicago in the thirties. I had a
client assassinated. We were in a coup attempt. We lived
at Bobb, a mafia group.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So my first book became a bestseller.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's called Leadership Is Dead. It was a Wall Street
Journal bestseller because of all the mafia stories probably in it,
and people it was just a fascinating period of time.
But what happened was I got to watch I studied
Russian history from World War two, their view of World
War two and versus the American view of World War
two fascinating and got to another perspective. Butt end of
(02:41):
the day, I had this big epiphany of watching what
seventy years of communism did to the people, and I
got to be with the people, and it realized that
it was a dominating culture of control and it led
to apathy and abdication. It didn't lead to empowerment, it
didn't lead to liberation. And so I started creating like
(03:03):
the support Challenge Matrix, one of our tools, and that
came the liberation domination concept. And I started just thinking
about people. And with me, I always think of three categories.
I think of Businesses are aligned around strategy, what's your
business plan, financial plan, how do you make money? And
then your people your talent and you have them. It's
(03:26):
a very crude, simple version of business. But you think
of those three areas. You think, well, if you have
a business plan and money and then you hope you
find good people, what does that do for you? Or
if you have money and people but no plan, or
if you have a plan and people but no money,
you have to have all three.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
They all have to go together, right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So I came out of that situation at a very
young age with a.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Different perspective than most people did. And then I went on.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And what's hard to explain is I my dad said,
in your twenty it's not what you do, is who
you work for that's most important. So I found a
liberator and I worked for this guy named Can Humphreys,
and he shaped me and changed me. And then he
sold and I worked for the private equity group and
they were a dominator group, not a liberator group. But
(04:15):
I go to experience good and bad from both sides,
and we bought. I was a part of acquisition team.
We bought seventeen companies in three years. I started three
dot coms. So by the time I was thirty, I
think i'd started I don't know five six companies had bought,
you know, as a part of private equity for a
(04:36):
number of years, and.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I'd just done a lot at that age.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So that gave me a very perspective as an ambitious
business person.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
This whole framework of the importance of all three you.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Have to have a business model, you have to have
a financial plan, you have to have a people development system.
And then as I started to build a growth advisory
business called Giant Growth Consulting Firm, that's what we started
coaching people on and we realized that it's easy to
get a business plan, and it's easy to have a
financial plan, easier to get work, get in a room
(05:12):
and think about it with some smart people. But the
hardest thing is people. And people always screw up the
business plan, They always screw up the financials in some way.
And so if you don't get ahead of it, if
you don't think strategically about people and talent and building
your bench, they'll always undermine your plans. And so that
(05:35):
shifted me to overemphasize people development because it's very easy
to do some of these other tasks.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So that a long answer, Yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's that's great, and I think it's important for our
listeners to hear you guys. So Jeremy has a long
history here working with companies, getting them up and running
and is seeing where the challenges are. And I think, Jeremy,
what I've I've seen you and why I love having
you on the podcast is because the business owners want
to to go to those they I don't know for
what reason. At times they I mean, we can get
into this a little bit, but they are like, well,
(06:05):
I don't want to touch the people issue. Let's just
do an their system or a process or another plan.
And it's like the value that they'll get from investing
and building what you've done through the culture is there's
much more dividends, there's much more benefit of the long haul.
But that does take some intentionality, which we'll get into today.
And I think where we see the business owners and
the businesses that are actually winning in the long haul
(06:28):
of how they've incorporated that. And I know Giant has
done empowering guides like myself and working with big, well
known companies and how they differentiate themselves, particularly today with
technology and other things out there. How do you differentiate
yourself in the marketplace? It is the people, right.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And so I went on and we bought John Maxwell's
assets and then verge them into Giant, and then we
partnered with people like Pat Lancioni and Hinry Cloud and
all these great thought leaders and they're amazing people, that
really are, and we started helping them build their businesses
and scale. But we kept running into another issue, which
(07:05):
is how people learn. And we started seeing the twentieth
century model in the twenty first century model. And I
used to run these brands, the Catalyst Conferences, Leader Casts,
some of the largest leadership events in the world for
that period of time. And it was bothering me because
it was like, Okay, we're one and done. Everything in
(07:25):
the past was butts and seats, selling books, so people
would learn from events and books. They don't learn that
way in the twenty first century. Everything is visual and
the next generation they learned through YouTube videos. They learned
through watching and observing and conversations. So Steve and I
formed a partnership and we said, let's go after changing
(07:48):
the way people development happens. But it has to start
with a mindset from the owner the leader to start
treating people as an asset, not a liability. And so
and then and then there was another misnomber that happened
in the Good to Great book, which is awesome, and
Jim Collins is a friend we used to work with Jim.
(08:10):
Jim was awesome and that book was one of the
most it still is one of.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
The best books.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But in the book, he makes this comment of like
get the right people on the bus, right, that's it,
get the right people on the bus.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So even like in EOS.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Or some other places, people have this misnumber of like,
well we just got to get the right people. Just
just hire and find the right people.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We'll find them.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean like that's great, yes, yes,
but that's like that's just the beginning. It's like, how
do we pull they bring their culture into your culture
good and be a great person and be a know
it all and completely disrupt your team and your culture.
(08:56):
So it's not just get the right people, but actually
develop those people into your culture, your systems, your standards
so that they bring their best into your best. So
let's not just find good people and it all works out.
And I think that's this number for a lot of entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
No, I agree, And as I talked to you know, Jeremy,
I talked to executive recruiters, talent sourcers, right, They're like,
I can find you some great people, but what's your culture?
How are you integrating them into what you have? And
a lot of companies I hear them say, we struggle
with the success of those people staying with those companies
and they're great people that we recruited them. There was
(09:33):
there was an intention of like how do we integrate
them over the long haul? And even you and I
know and in businesses, when you come in in a
certain role too, hopefully the good business is growing and developing.
That means your role and responsibilities are going to likely
shift as the company shifts and grows. And if you
don't know how to do that, well, we start to
live in an like use an unhealthy culture is what
(09:55):
I've seen. Or people just want to hold into the
little spaces or I know this this control and it
doesn't have it doesn't create a space where people want
to come and be a part of over the long haul.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yes, So then it is this, it's the idea of assimilation.
So finding talent and assimilating them and then leveraging them
to become the most effective they possibly can. So I
had the privilege of also working in the sports world,
and I worked with a lot of college athletes and
(10:31):
a lot of coaches, and then I've worked with some
coaches at Alabama, University of Oklahoma, we work with Florida
State lots of other places, Assissippi State, and we're constantly
training the coaches on the concept of what is culture
and culture is atmosphere, and you can't bring in a
(10:51):
disruptive player can disrupt the atmosphere very very quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So the culture dynamics.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And I'll also brag on my team, the Oklahoma City Thunder,
Oklahoma City Thunder basketball team that I'm from, you know,
but they've done such a good job on culture building
because they understand the locker room and the practice mindset
and the locker room mindset and then will show up
on the game day mindset. And so if you're listening
(11:20):
to this and you're like, you know, yeah, tell me more,
what we're saying is you have to apprentice talent, you
have to develop talent, and you're constantly working themselves up.
I have a good friend who is on the board
of Quick Trip and their gas station chain. They're like
the Chick fil A of gas stations, and they have
(11:44):
this phrase, a leader readiness Trump's opportunity, and so they
won't open a new location until they have their too
deep of their teams, their first and second line have
to be fully developed and fully ready to be able
to start a newation. So and so how do they
(12:05):
train people? Well, they have this massive org chart and
they are constantly like, hey, let's move David.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
He might be a CFO candidate. Let's give him one
year over here. So they move him over here for
a year.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Then they move you over here, so you get all
of this experience to get you ready because they're developing
four or five, six, seven layers deep for their future growth.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
The problem with most business owners and leaders is they're
so in the weeds. And I get it, but I've
started thirty something companies. I'm like, I understand, there are
you know, just getting in the weeds. You've got to
make the donuts. You've got client issues, you've got lawyers,
you've got accounts, you get your reports, you've got your
(12:49):
all the things you've got to start. And then once
you do start, then you've got the minutia of every day.
You might have issues at home. All these things affect
to you. But what typically gets taken off the priority
list is the development of the people. Yes, and that's
what we're really really focusing on in this next season
(13:09):
within Giant, even deeper than we were out.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, and I love Jeremy speak a little bit about this.
You've worked with so many different organizations, so sometimes I
feel like speaking a little bit about having that third
party come in and look at kind of lift up
the hood of the car, come in, because they're like, well,
we could figure this out ourselves. We could just do
this ourselves. Speak a little bit about the value of
having somebody outside your organization come in and take a look.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Okay, so well I'll go big and then I'll go small. Yeah,
so big.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I worked for Ford with Ford Motor Company in two
thousand and eight, nine ten, and Alan Malali came in,
So you got a brand new culture keeper. Okay, so
he was. He came from Boeing. There was the eight
nine ten recession. He came in, and when we did,
he needed.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
An outside forced help him with his culture because they
didn't have They couldn't see it because when you live it,
you only know what's in your walls.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's like you don't have vision for it. Like let's
say I went to your house right now. If I
came into your house right now, I bet you I
could make two major changes and probably ten minor changes.
I might say, David, did you know your shoes are
right here you and you're like, oh my gosh, no
I even noticed that because you just live.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
That's just where the shoes go. Yeah, but could you
move in the closet? Yeah, I mean yeah, I probably could.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So the outside eyes give you perspective, right, And so
this week I've been so Ford basically brought me in
and then we brought a team in and we built
we built their supplier relations and their dealer relations program.
And he wanted to reset the culture between Ford and
(14:54):
the dealerships. And he called it a love campaign. And
we helped build a love campaign four Ford, and we
built the tools, we built the systems with the process
and he and so we were the ones who helped
to get that, uh.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And it changed, it changed the culture. Their scores went
up all these different things.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, this week I was in a place called Cinnamon Shore.
Cinnamon Shore is on the coast of Texas. It's in
the Gulf.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It is on.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Mustang Island. And the friend of mine is the developer
and they have gosh, I don't know, five hundred plus
houses on the ocean and they're gorgeous and it's it's
like it's a it's an ermit. It's a planned community, yeah,
golf arts and it's a resort, and but they they
needed another set of eyes. So they've asked me to
(15:46):
come in and work with them on the customer journey.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And there's three or four different.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Customers and on the employee journey, and because they want
to get better. They're really good, but they want to
get better. So, you know, so I drove in and
I'm like, so, is that golf cart supposed to be there?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Why?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Why move? Why is the maintenance cart right there? Could
it be somewhere else? And by the end of the
day they are like, oh my gosh, we didn't even
thought of it. It's like the shoes, Yeah, this other
little spot. And what if you had a sign that
says the you know, welcome to peace in Paradise or
(16:27):
some phrase that really you know, what if it was
right there as you drive in, there's this opportunity just
to get it.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Right there, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And so the idea is a journey. What is the
journey of a customer? What is the journey of an employee?
And walk step into their shoes And when you start
stepping into their shoes, you start realizing, Okay, this is
how an employee feels right now, they're coming in with
high confidence and low competence.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
They don't know what to do, but they're excited.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, and so they and they think I got chosen,
I'm here, let's go.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And so how do you take them through that foundation stage?
How do you onboard them?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And then you know how they You do the work
and they watch you. Well, now you get them to
you do the work and they help you. So how
do they start getting immersed into their world? And then
you start to going through the development square? And then
all of a sudden, there's this opportunity that can fall
into the pittancepare and their confidence goes so low and
(17:30):
their competence is still low that they can help select.
So you have to lead them into the engagement stage,
which is rising confidence, rising competence, and you have to affirm.
But you have to do it based on their wiring,
their personality and your personality. And that's where it gets.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Super complicated, but super doable if you figure it out
and we think we've solved it. Yeah, basically, here's the voices,
here's the tools. Now, here's the roadmap, here's the journey
you're trying to take every employee on and if.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You can get them through the square, they become an asset,
and then they become what you've always hoped they would become.
Most people just hire people and if they don't become it,
they fire them and then try to find another one
and another one, and it just becomes a turnover factory.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh man, so many great nuggets there, Jeremy that you
just brought up, you know, and and as one that
has been in that space of what you said, I
didn't know that way, and I didn't work with the
company that didn't quite understand how to do that, and
I started my own personal journey of like discovery. And
(18:46):
I think, you know, you say this often is like
how do we know ourselves to lead ourselves? Uh and
do it well? And I think it's challenging. And I
think a lot of businesses that I found sometimes they
don't want to, especially if it's a small company, very
small as this owner is, just to hire people that
are just basically the same voice of them because they
feel like they talk with the same language. I don't
understand the value of getting these other voices in there.
(19:07):
And it is complicated, it's a little messy in there,
and you've created these great frameworks and tools over the years,
and you now have a new book coming out of
The Voice Driven Leader, which I'm super excited about. I
was telling you my preiod of my copy already, so
I'm excited to get that. And I know we're going
to be talking about that Voices twenty five later on
in this coming up. But you know, talk a little
(19:29):
bit more about where we're at along this leadership journey.
Why did you why this book now? And you talk
a little bit about this development square, but you know
you've done a lot, but what makes this unique? Where
are we going here? You know, I know we're I'm
curious as a guide myself because if the leadership and
the tools you've ringing. But yeah, yeah, yeah, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Let's go into the companies that master people development will
have a competitive advantage in the future. We're going to
be managing half the half of people's team will be
bots or agents and half will be real. Half will
be machines and half will be real. So if you
(20:12):
think about the dynamics, then we've got to have astute,
strong people and strong teams. Well, so this morning I
was with a treasurer of a state treasurer and helping
him with his team. And I was meeting with them
and I explained, so, how many employees you have? He's
(20:33):
got well, fifty in this register in this treasurer's office
the state capitol. All right, fifty five or something. How
many people lead people? Got seven? So seven managers of people?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
All right?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Then the number one thing you need to do is
you need to train them because they're the most important
people in your organization. They are your shirpa. They're the
ones that get you up the mountain. So he was
getting it. It's like that makes total sense. Meaning in
Mount Everest, you have one person leading six people up
(21:10):
the mountain. Without sherpa, the guy couldn't take fifty people up.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
There's no way.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
But by distributing it, now you've got these well that
sharpa need to be the healthiest people in your organization.
So if you're listening to this, how many people will
lead people in your company? Make that list and draw circles.
If you have ten, let's say you have ten, draw
ten circles, put the name of every person in there,
each individual circle, and then give them a score. Half
(21:37):
the circle is performance one through ten. How would they
do in this case? This morning, he gave one of
his leaders a nine on performance, meaning how good a job.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Does she do? And he gave her an eight on leadership.
Pretty high.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Nine to eight out of ten ten is the highest.
The average when I've been doing this for the last
four or five years, average has been six to four.
The average SHIRPA score has been they perform at six
out of ten.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Now leadership is the other side. So performance is.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
One, leadership is the other four out of ten. So
how's that working for you? If your shirpa, your people
who lead people are six fours, right, Well, a six
is a D on the grading scale and a four
is failing. So if you think you have six to four,
then they are not effective leaders. So what has to
(22:33):
happen to get them to an eight in performance and
a seven minimum in their leadership? If you get a
seven seven or eight seven, you've got a really solid team.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That's a really good team. You can do a lot.
So that's the game. The entire game is now to
develop your SHIRPA. So you then need to know, well,
who are you?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, David and I are connectors, So if we're connectors,
and that's we're the leader and we're on boarding people.
We're not the best in onboarding because we may not
give enough detail. Yep, we will definitely give enough raw rah,
like oh man, it's so good to have you. We're
(23:14):
doing this and this, and we.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Will definitely overload them on vision. So we'll give them vision,
we'll give them excitement, we'll give them love, but the
detail of like what's your password, how do you sign in?
What's the process? Oh, it's just that's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Ask Cindy, she'll take care of ask Tracy, right, So
we'll ask the guardians to take care of it. So
then the onboarding process and then when we take them
to the immersion stage sometimes it's like, well it's hard
for us to delegate. We're not the best delegators because
we kind of like to do it ourselves or we.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Hope that you figured it out.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So the point is is this is whoever you are
as the leader, who are they? You have to know
yourself and that's the power of five voices and David,
you can share the link and.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
All this stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, the power of.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Knowing who you are is one thing. Then you need
to know who they are, and who's they it's your shurpa,
or it's any employee that comes on. If you are
the sharp, any of your new employees, well if you're
if you're a connector and they're a nurturer, there's clues.
It's called the voice driven leader. Lead based on how
they want to be onboarded based on how you on board.
(24:34):
So if I no, I'm with a guardian, They're gonna
have a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I need to do the.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Work to give them everything they need so that they're successful,
so they're onboard in that first month or two so
that they can be the most effective and ultimately get
them to the engagement. But if I run ahead of them,
which most connectors will do, I leave them in the dust,
and then they get frustrated, and then I'm frustrated with them.
(25:00):
Now we've got an employee issue all because I didn't
lead them based on who they were. I was leading
based on who I am.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yes, and and and it's natural I think what I
like about the five voices Jeremy, and there's a great breakdown,
And like Jeremy said, I'll give you guys a link
to the five Voices assessment. You guys can take it
down there. There's a component of nature and nurture and
choice and how we show up here. And to your point, Jeremy,
you're saying, you know, how we show up naturally, But
then how do we learn how to be with these
(25:30):
other folks? It can be learned and and how can
I how can I better interact with them. I was
just talking with a client today about that who his
he's a nurturer and his wife's a guardian and why
he's all about relational harmony and just make sure everybody's okay,
And she's just frustrated and like, can you just tell
me the specific thing this is what I need to
high challenge and like he didn't understand that. Who was
(25:52):
like trying to ask you all these questions and she's
getting frustrated and she's like, just I just need this
and and so there can be you know, and that's
I mean, this is not just a work we're talking about.
This is a home marriage relationships, right, It goes across
the board.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Kids, the whole bit.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and it's so interesting because you know, again back
to Jim Collins, so we got the right people on
the bus. Great, what I'm trying to say, is that's
just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Where do we try? Where are we trying to take them?
What do we want? What are our expectations? What are
they supposed to do? What's their role? Clarity? How do
they win? How do other people know how they win?
So the journey we've.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Tried to make it now super simple. Okay, great, you've
got a good employee.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Awesome, Who are they? Well? Who are you? You know
your person? Who are they? Are they a guardian? Are
they a nurturer? Are they a creative, a pioneer, another connector?
Who are they? Once you know who they are, it's
a clue. Now let's give you a roadmap. You're in
foundation stage, onboarding stage. Now you're an immersion stage. Let's
(26:58):
avoid let's avoid the pititans, fair, Let's get them into
the engagement stage. Let's get them into the multiplication stage.
That entire development process is a minimum of a year minimum.
It will take probably two or three years honestly to
build an unbelievable teammate. And then once they are, then
(27:20):
they can start multiplying other people.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And now that but we've given we're actually built a
roadmap so that people who've got good people on the
bus now know.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Where to go.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
And I think that's where I think that's what's missing
in most leadership because most leadership books is just a
bunch of motivational jargon, and it's a bunch of it's
all about be a better performer, awaken the giant within
all these things that are for you.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
But it's that's that's you. To be a climber, not
to be a Shurpa has to.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Be healthy and perform. But they have to help people perform.
They have to help people climb, and that's what leadership
is about.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Jeremy so Well said, And I think you know, you've
worked with a lot of private equity and building the
terms and when I've heard a lot of as I
look at people that are either wanting to exit or
or potentially buy a company, to your point, they're actually,
look what's that leadership team? Look like? What's the dynamic?
Especial when we're talking a professional services in particular, because
your point of like this is not health, I mean
(28:23):
what am I actually buying as a company? You know,
especially if that leader is key and they're gonna they
want to step out and they're like, who, what's this team?
And to your point, most of the time, that's what
what I've talked with folks that are doing exits, like,
it's going to take us two three plus years to
get your company in a good, good enough shape, right,
so to get all.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Those time, yeah, totally and land and Lyunch one of
our giants. We're working with a couple of private equity
groups right now. And and in private equity they have
two they have three years and then three to five
years they'll turn and sell the business to the next group.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So their job is always three years.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, but they love talent, they just want it to
be developed by the leader. So the best leaders will
always build their bench. They just have a shorter time
period to do so.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And you can do it. You can. You can speed up.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You can hire some all stars and then you bring
them in and then but the job is simple. Who
are your SHIPA where are they now? What needs to
happen to get them to an eight seven or an
eight eight?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
That's it. So now, if you understand performance and leadership,
we're giving you clues on how to speed up the
development process. But there's still work to be done in
the development process. You still have to do.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
But if you as a if you're an entrepreneur or
an owner, it's all about shurpe training. Spend all of
your time on shurpet training. They'll take care of.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
The rest of the employees. I think that's a misnomerate.
A lot of people will just go, well, we have
you know, we do an annual retreat, do an annual
one day of training. Check.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That doesn't mean anything, no, no, no, yeah, But why do
you have Why are you like a sieve.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
And your back doors open?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And you know, no one likes Tom over here because
Tom is an eight in performance and a two in leadership,
but he makes money for the company. We don't want
to lose him. But he's killing your employees and he's
killing your culture internally, so you got to You gotta
remember culture is atmosphere, and if you're the leader, you're
(30:32):
the keeper of the atmosphere. You are leaders define the culture,
but your sub leaders, your shirpa, are subculture leaders. They
define the subculture. And if you have eight leaders, you
have eight subcultures. And those subcultures they need to be
a majority positive. But if you get six subcultures that
(30:55):
are negative and people don't love uh to work or
they don't. You know, if you've got if they're undermining you,
you're you're gonna be underwater very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh man, Yeah, Jeremy, to your point, I mean you're
just bringing in story now. This is Unfortunately they didn't
have employees with subcontractors, but they was working on a
very big project, complicated project, Jeremy, and they heard for
a big project, these independent contractors, and to your point,
that's exactly what happened. Like I'm gonna run this this big,
(31:26):
big project, environmental project. I'm gonna run my little section here,
I'm gonna run it this way. And it was just
a nightmare of people colliding with each other.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And that's where if if you get on the other
side of the talent gap, where you start getting to
the place where you have confidence. And that's what most
business owners want. They just want peace, Like can we
just get something that works? Can we get aligned and
just execute?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah we can. But you have to
build your surf and and you have to deal.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, well, we've got my cousin's brother involved and we
can't lose him. I'm like, yeah, yeah, all that needs
to go. All the nepotism. You've got to get it
to the point of leaders define culture. If you want
a great culture, you have to bring support and challenge.
But that challenge you've got to set it up correctly.
(32:23):
Work on your shirpa. Your shirpa great sherpa.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Will will lead unbelievable teams.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
The problem is no one wants to follow the asthmatic shirpa,
right like the unhealthy shurpa. People are like, oh my gosh,
I'm on Tom's team. How do I get off and stop?
And that that person. And now I would tell I
would say to owners, be belligerent about your shirpa, like
(32:51):
train them, but they need to be above a five
to five for sure in both the moments and leadership
and in either give them the chance to get there
or move them on and get a new sharpa in place.
But once you have seventy five percent of your shirpa
that are healthy and moving, now you can move the needle.
(33:12):
Now you can start seeing things really really happen. But again,
I think there's just so much.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like I love EOS.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
EOS is awesome, but it's so misses on people development
because it's just it's just like we'll just get good
people and then follow our system. They're like, yeah, well
who are they? Are they a guardian? Are they a nurturer?
Like you got to know a lot. There's a lot
more that goes into it, but eos.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
With Yes, I love working with the implementers.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah, get over if they can, if they install the
people section of it.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, I agree with you, Jeremy. And it's it's it's
so important and the tools that you've created. And I
really like how you said this earlier on is that
how people are experiencing things. Why I was pulled to
the Giant O West platform was you know that the
the videos, the resources in there, tied with like a
guy I like myself because what I found is people
(34:12):
even like you said, maybe go to an annual you know,
retreat or something, or watch a video or read a book.
It can be helpful. I mean, they'd be helpful, but
it's like somebody else that's coming through. Like what we're
doing is building the relationship, building the muscle memory, and
that takes time. It's like I don't both go to
the gym and I'm super strong and I've got it
all dialed in. This is an ongoing thing week after week,
month after month.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Right, it's it absolutely and when you when you are
consistent and put together that again, that's that's back to
quick trip. You're building layers of depth. Like imagine if
you're listening to this and you go, we're four or
five six deep, I could plug and play anybody at
(34:53):
this position. Wouldn't that be amazing? Most people are not
one deep, you know. And so building your bench and
having it so what it requires. It requires you as
a leader to slow down to speed up. It requires
you to stop long enough to get a game plan
and know yourself. Then you start with yourself. Here's who
(35:15):
I am. Oh my gosh, I'm a pioneer connector. I
just I run past people.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I go too fast and that's why I'm always having
these turnover issues. Okay, got it? Good?
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Now who are your shurpa? How deep are you right now?
Be honest, I've got four sherpa. We're an average of.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Five to five.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I got to get a stronger group of shurpa. Great, yes, Now,
how do we get to sherpa to start leading their people?
And what's the development plan for them? So we got
to train them to develop. So there's a system there's
a process. And that's what this next book, the Voice
Driven Leader, all it does is here's the crisis development crisis,
(35:57):
here's the development system. Are like, how do you actually
develop people? And then here's the system that you put
in place, and it gives you all that and then
we've created on top of that Five Voices AI. We
actually have it now to such a degree all you
have to do is ask questions of it and hey,
how do I take a nurture connector through the immersion stage.
(36:22):
If I'm a pioneer, it walks you through, it helps
you in addition to it. So that's we're trying to
give every resource possible.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
For people to actually not have any excuses.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, Jeremy, So you guys, we're going to make sure
everybody the book is actually available for prego now on
Amazon and all those good places. We'll make sure that
the link is in there, and like I said, the
five Voices Assessment, so you guys can actually go in
there and start checking this stuff out now. And I
like how, Jeremy, you said this too. There's where you're
a way of quantifying there's different ways that we can
(36:55):
quantify that through the team performance assessment. There's other ways
and that we can go through and and I'm excited
to go in and even further Jeremy, as you were
explaining in the book here of how to walk folks
through this journey, because I think sometimes people get a
little frustrated with like, oh, these are soft skills, how
do we quantify this? Get how do we go wrap
our arms around it? But you've spent a lot of
time in an effort creating a helping us break down
(37:17):
from alignment, rational trust or how we're executing and our
capacity all of that stuff in a very you know,
very thoughtful way, and it works. We know that this
works when we break it down absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, and yeah, we've been doing this for way too
long and when people get to it, they just appreciate
the simplicity.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We made it simple enough our thirteen year old. And
just a side note, I did this.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
My kids are all in their twenties, but I started
with my kids when they were ten twelve years old
on the tools and then the five voices, and it
changed the dynamic at home. So my wife, when she
found out she's a guardian, I knew that she's a guardian, nurturer,
I'm a connector, so we're nemesis voices and we have
a creative daughter, we have a guardian son and a
(38:02):
nurturer daughter. Once we figured out who they were, we
started speaking their language and it changed the relational dynamics
between us. We started pouring in and they started to
open up and accept us, apprenticing and developing our own
kids so much so that we've developed a plan of
how do you take them through every year thirteen's year
(38:25):
of identity, fourteen, year of relationship, fifteen every year to
get them to launch at eighteen. So we created that
system because we're intentional, all because we knew who they were.
And you know, that's the beauty of it. Most everyone
just wants to be known. And once you're known you
and they see that you're trying, they will appreciate you,
(38:49):
and they'll have you'll have more influence in our life,
and then they'll run through walls for you. And then
the person that people want to follow and not have
to follow.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And there's a big difference between those two.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Big difference, And I want to just acknowledge that, Jeremy.
I mean, I've got to meet your wife, Kelly. I
will as part of Giant. I've actually seen this at firsthand.
So this isn't you know. I've got to know Steve Cochran,
who Jeremy and Steve have worked together, lived together, gone
through things life together. So this is true. And this
is what I love about the Giant community and working
(39:21):
with other guys and why we're so passionate about liberation
and helping people. And Jeremy, why I have you here
on the podcast. I know we're gretting close, and the
time on the podcast I definitely could go longer.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
You know, are both.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Connector voices for those of you don't know what's funny
as you're saying that too, Jeremy, my wife's a guardian
nurture as well, and so it's like, well we had
these conflicts, now we're creating a better space of understanding
and appreciation for one another. So so important.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, yeah, we And so you know the way we started.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
We moved to London and we moved in the manor
house and Steve Cockraman had his family and we had
one family in two different wings of this old state
and then we would bring people over and it was
like an experiment. We did it for nine months.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
It was. It was amazing. But we got to learn
our kids and know each.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Other and you know, and then we'd have people come
and do retreats and it was just like, uh, it
was like magic, you know. And the thing is, once
we've just built the five voices to be simple enough
again for a thirteen year old to get it, but
once you do, you'll never forget it versus you know.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
The other day, I was literally with someone and he goes.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, I have done myerspread because I'm like, yeah, what
are you? And he was joking because he could remember it.
He goes, I'm an ESPN and we're like and we're like, yeah,
he goes, I honestly can't remember, but it was good.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
I can't remember. And we've tried to get well. Once
you know, if you're a connector, you'll never forget that.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
If you know you're a pioneer, you'll never forget that.
You'll at least you'll know your foundational voice. And that's
what we're trying to do, is like help people know
themselves so they can lead themselves. Then help them to
know other people so they can help them lead them
And when you do that, well, gosh, it's way better
than being accidental. You avoid some of the issues that
(41:15):
most business leaders have because they're accidental with their leadership.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
And that's the whole point of this podcast. We don't
want you to be accidental. We want you to be intentional.
Jeremys and and Steve Cockerman and then the team at
Giant have just amazing tools and resources. That's why I
got certified as a guide. Five voices for teams and
and and helping you be more impactful. As we're wrapping
up the podcast, Jeremy, I like to always give our
(41:41):
our guests an opportunity, if you know, as we've covered
a lot of ground here today, just you know, last
maybe thought or action that somebody can do that you
you would say, hey, if you did nothing else, if
you took nothing else from this podcast, and you listen
to this today, I you know, hopefully you will. You'll
walk away with this you know, thought or action.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, I would hope that you'd be super, super curious
to figure out who you really are. So going to
take the five voices. It's going to tell you what
happens to you understress, Where do you tend to go,
what are your patterns and actions, and you'll find if
you take it in the right spirits, you're taking the assessment.
(42:23):
Don't take it based on who you think you should be.
I don't want to know who you play on TV.
We want to know who you really are. And so
if you just take it and go, oh my gosh,
this and then you read it and soak in it,
you'll probably find is probably we hear this. I don't
know ten thousands of times, you know, we've we've had
(42:44):
there's a lot a lot of people take this and
they'll go, oh my goodness like that.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I've seen people cry. I've seen my own kids read
report and.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Cry because it's like, this is me, this is me.
And once you do, then there's something that happens. You
have to give yourself grace and truth. You bring support
and challenge in this process. So I hope you would
want to know who you are. But because once you
know who you are, you'll start going, well, I want
(43:14):
to know who David is.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
I want to know who my wife. I want to
know who there is.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And then once you get to know who they are,
then the voices are like languages. Then you just learn
to speak their language. When I used to live in Europe,
I would go all over Europe and I've lived in
Europe twice. And when i'd go into France, you know,
I would try enough French because the French at a cafe,
(43:39):
you know, probably food front say, and you know they're
they're asking, and I'm asking for you know, can I
have a cup of coffee and the nicest trying to
do French. But because I'm trying, they at least appreciate it,
versus if I'm like coffee, coffee black, no sugar, that's
guaranteed spit in the cup. Right, So it's like it's
(44:01):
like the idea is when I attempt to know another
person's voice and I have to show it, they'll let
their guard down because they'll appreciate it. They'll see that
I'm trying to get to know how they operate and work.
And once I do, it's like cracking code. Now I've
got an opportunity to turn them into an asset, not
(44:22):
a liability.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So that's the game.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yes, I love that. Yeah, you guys will have that
in there. The five Voices Assessment absolutely free. You guys
can check that out. Learn what your foundational voice is. Jeremy,
I want to just thank you for sharing your wisdom,
your story, your heart, where you're at, where Giant is.
And I really love that this conversation reminds us that
culture doesn't shift just because there's like lofty visions or
(44:47):
big slogans, but it's really when the shurpas, the team
leaders are equipped with clarity, courage, they're consistency, they're getting
after and appreciating who they are and who else is
on their team. So I just super excited about that.
And then for those of you that you know, if
this sparked you know something for you today, I want
to make sure that you guys go check out the
new book Jeremy and Steve Coachman, The Voice Driven Leader.
(45:10):
It's coming out. Here's what's the date when it's actually going.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
To be released in October?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
In October eighteenth something like that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Okay, it may say November on in Amazon, but it's
really October.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
There you go, So go check that out. Uh, And
you know, we would love to have you back. Jeremy.
You've been great here. You own our connected on LinkedIn
as well. Jeremy can be check dot com Giant worldwide
you can find Jeremy. He's all he's out there. I
really appreciate you being here a Jeremy on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Thank you, David, appreciate what you're doing. I love the
word steward by the way, oh thank you. It's a
great word. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Well, you know that that comes from the place of, hey,
our people, right, we take care of our people, our great,
greatest asset. And you know we only we all have
a responsibility along this journey. And then so I think
as business owners, what to you, what you said is like,
we want help help you take care of your people.
I love it. Yeah, awesome. Thank you everybody for being
(46:07):
on the podcast with Jeremy and I. Please of course
like subscribe, follow us along. We appreciate you and until
next time, be well. Thanks everybody,
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