September 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Too many business owners confuse more activity with more sales. In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr talks with Joe Gregory, known as The Sales Catalyst, about how leaders can simplify sales, eliminate costly mistakes, and build scalable systems that actually drive business growth. Joe shares his journey from struggling early in his sales career to becoming a trusted advisor for business owners and sales teams across industries. Together, they uncover:
Connect with Joe Gregory:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joegregorythesalescatalyst
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
- Why “one-size-fits-all” sales tactics fail in professional services and consulting
- How business owners can move from being the rainmaker to building repeatable sales success
- Why clarity—not activity—is the biggest driver of results
- The psychology behind how buyers make decisions (and why they need a guide, not a pitch)
- How to disqualify poor-fit opportunities and protect profit margins
- The real question every leader should ask: What does a good day look like for you and your team?
Connect with Joe Gregory:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joegregorythesalescatalyst
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I
am your host, David Carr, founder of Steward your Business
bringing people together to accomplish great things. And this week
we have another great new guest, Joe Gregory, the sales Catalyst.
I'm so happy to have Joe on here. Joe, welcome
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, thank you so much, David, And it's a joy
to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Excellent, excellent. You know, sales comes up a lot for
me and I wanted to have you on here. You
and I have some mutual connections. We're a part of
another networking groups, Success Champions Network, among others. And one
of the things that when when I first met you, Joe,
that I felt was so valuable and why I wanted
to have you on the podcast is that, you know,
there's a lot of business owners that their way approached sales,
(01:20):
how they look at things is not clear and they
lack some clarity. And uh, night before we started even
recording this, I was sharing how we're at another event
and giving greater clarity and businesses like I just need
to sell more. What am I selling? And so I
just wanted to bring you on here on the podcast today, Joe,
because you have a wealth of experience. We're gonna give
(01:41):
you an opportunity to share. Share that today. Get into that.
But you know, take us back, Joe, where tell us
about your story in your your background, where you came from,
and why you are you know, so passionate about what
you're doing now at the sales Catalyst today.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, and uh, thanks for that question. And so my
my journey and I'm sure at one point because it'll
come up later in our conversations. I was a psychology
major for my undergraduate degree at the University of Richmond
in Virginia, And little did I know at the time
that psychology is really what life is about, right, and
(02:21):
what sales is about because we're just other human beings
and understanding of what people what makes people tick. So
psychology has been a deep interest of mine and I
bookshelves filled books around a psychology and too psychology with you,
I'll turn the clock back. So when I when I
(02:42):
first got out of college, I got in I was
in investment property sales and then decided to make a pivot.
And that's another key lesson in life right as we
make pivots, especially now more than ever right for people.
And so I went to work for AT and T
in New Jersey and it was a real interesting start
(03:03):
for me and kind of ironic that I have my
own and for eleven years now I've had my own
sales coaching, training and sales performance business. And when I
started with AT and T selling hardware and software solutions
to companies in northern New Jersey, quite frankly, I sucked.
I was I was terrible, and I got put on
(03:27):
the uh, the old performance improvement plan, yeah, which you know,
it's like I'm starting to break out in hives just
thinking about it, right, I mean, there's the worst three
letters to salespeople, you know, pee a pip right, And
unlike most folks though, I took it seriously and it
was embarrassing to me, and I was like, Okay, I've
(03:50):
got to up level my skills. You know. I went
from investment property sales of having to do three or
four deals a year to make some decent money, right
to now I got to do six deals are more
a month, right, So it was completely different, and thankfully
I got help. I got help from one of the
top sales guys. In the office. He spent several days
(04:12):
running sales calls with me and gave me some really
good feedback and thank you, Glenn, Kay if you're out
there anywhere listening. It made a huge difference for me
the rest of my career. So that taught me that, Okay,
little adjustments can give you outsize results. Right, you don't
(04:36):
have to throw out the baby with the bath water, right,
just make some adjustments. And he gave me some adjustments
to make. I took him to heart, made them. In
my career took off from there. So I was in
a telecom hardware and software sales for a couple of decades,
(04:56):
multiple leadership roles I got from. Moved from Jersey to Chicago,
to Boston, back to New Jersey and then to Colorado.
So relocated, taking promotions and greater responsibilities. And along the way,
since I worked with Loosent Technologies, which was AT and T,
(05:16):
which became Lucid Technologies, which became a buy in exponents,
you know, large companies, I went through all sorts of
training and development, not just sales things, but this is
specific to sales today, and I thought, you know, that
would be really cool to do at some point in
my life and then fast forward in two thousand and nine,
(05:39):
like so many others, I got laid off. You know,
my branch was doing great, we were performing well. But
life happens, right yep, and absolutely, you know, we get kicked,
we get knocked down, and what are we going to do?
And while that was a painful transition point for me,
I went to work for one of the large, very
(06:00):
recognizable brand names of sales and leadership development companies and
did that for two and a half years, then went
to work briefly for a client of mine and then decided, okay,
now what am I going to do? And I'm like
this on my own? Yes, right, so another pivot point studying. Okay,
(06:20):
I'm going to develop all my own intellectual material, the
things that I've learned over the years, and go and
help people like Glenn did when I first started. And
I was so fortunate to work for large companies where
I got all sorts of really good training. A lot
of people don't have access to that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yep. Absolutely, absolutely well, and that's why we have you
on the podcast, because we're all about giving, helping and
hearing from different voices. You know, I find that you know,
you've got to find somebody that resonates with you. It's
kind of like a doctor, a counselor. It's like a
lot of people can do sales, but it's like, do
identify with Joe and his method, the way he's showing up,
(07:03):
the way he coaches, and and and and So I
love having different voices on here because I'm hoping you,
as a listener leaning in, you're like saying, maybe I've
heard somebody else talk about sales in the past, but
Joe's got a different perspective. He's been through a different journey.
We all have different experiences, and so to hear Joe
your journey both both working in these large companies over
the course of your and now running your own company.
(07:26):
And it's a different thing when I feel I'm a
memoism now I'm actually living this out and somebody else's
this is mine that I've created and what does that
look like? And I feel like a lot of business owners,
I'll put myself in there too. We make mistakes when
it comes to sales and approach, and we try to
do a one size fits all or just like, well,
(07:49):
this is the this is it. It's like like you said,
you just told me one example of a different sales cycle,
and you're like, well, I can't apply that same thing.
There's a different way in a different relationship and a
different end street. And so understanding, you know, I think
there's a lot of people out there nowadays that say
we'll just do these tactics and that's not it doesn't work,
especially like I said something the oldest I can hit
(08:11):
up all the time, or like well, just make more
sales or you know, And I see business owners struggling
with saying this because they're not clear. And I love
to dig into a little bit. What are the common
mistakes you see as you're in your journey and Joe
that business owners are making in this sales conversation?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, and uh, there's a lot to unpacked there. Yeah,
and I'll and I'll start by saying that, uh, not all,
but a lot of business owners themselves have been rain
makers right when they started their business, uh, by necessity. Now,
necessity is a great motivator, by the way, They had
(08:52):
to go out and sell, right, So they were the
ones bringing in the clients and the customers and getting
things done and the and a lot of sales executives
that work for larger corporations. The trap that we fall
into is my way is the way that works right.
And I'll never forget when I first became a running teams,
(09:14):
I got relocated by AT and T to Chicago to
open up a branch in a suburb of Chicago, and
I was beating my head against the wall. Why don't
people do what I do right? Why don't they put
the time and the effort in that I do. Why
don't they sell the way that I do? And that's
when my hair started going prematurely gray. So when I
(09:37):
started leading teams of people, now it's genetic, but it
did coincide with that, and so many owners and executives
and sales leaders it's like, it's like, this is the
way that we do it right. Well, I got to
help David be the best David he can be. Right
when Gwen was working with me years ago, he was
(09:57):
trying to help Joe be the best Joe because it's
not a one size fits all. And I think a
lot of owners have been really successful, say on the sales,
you know part of it. So it's like, this is
how I want you to do it right, So right there.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
That's a huge one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The other big mistake owners, it's not necessarily a mistake,
it's how you get your business story. But at some
point you've got to take yourself out of the equation, right,
I mean, you cannot be the number one rain maker.
That means you're not an owner. You have a job, right.
(10:39):
If you're looking to increase the value of your company, right,
you have to take yourself out of the equation and
have a team of salespeople that are self reliant. You
need to provide focus and direction, right and arm them
with good training and coaching as well. But that's another stake,
(11:00):
right is that? Uh, you know when to take themselves
out of the question. And it's not just in sales, right,
and it's other way business too. You need to step back.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, absolutely well, I mean that's a conversation I've had
a number of guests, especially in the merger's acquisition based joke,
because like you said, why would I want to have
a business? You're if you're leaving the business. If you
want to leave the business, you're the remain rain maker.
You know all this stuff, You've not been you haven't
built a team, Like what am I actually buying here,
how valuable is the company actually? Right?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah? And then uh and and by the way, it's
not just business owners that do this, uh, sales managers.
When we first step into a role as being sales manager,
we want to jump in and be the hero, right
and save the deal and stuff, and that that doesn't develop.
There's times when you need to do that, but it
should be the exception, right. You need to develop people.
(11:53):
And again it goes back to my uh opening comment
about you know, majoring in psychology and being a huge
student of human psychologies. We're dealing with other human beings
and that's what sales is. Unless you're selling a commodity
online and stuff, we're dealing with human beings. And when
we're dealing with human beings, there are two nervous systems
(12:15):
that are interacting, right, and we move between fight at
flight and freeze and also being in our parasympathetic nervous
system where we're calm, cool and collected right on sales calls. Right.
Buyers by definition right, they're nervous, right, so we need
(12:35):
to be able to help settle them down. A lot
of the coaching I do is around how do we
show up in a way where our buyers feel safe,
right right now, and right now, buyers don't feel safe.
They're overwhelmed with information, they're tired of the traditional sales tactics.
They don't want to deal with a salesperson. What they
(12:57):
want is a guide, a guide to help them make
sense of all the information that's out there, how to
navigate their own politics within their own company, and how
in the world do we make a good decision? Right?
And a good decision I defined is high confidence, lower
gret right. And it's that lowergret. You know, oftentimes people
(13:19):
are confident when they buy something. In afterwards it's like,
oh god, that you know that wasn't a good decision.
So right now we've got buyers are fearful of messing
up right. So that's why there's delayed sales cycles, there's
uh stall deals, no decision, all those things. They're afraid
of making a bad decision. And one more point of
(13:42):
that that I'll let you comment on. It is the
big problem that I see around all of that is differentiation.
And my message to people, my tagline is how you
sell matters. You as the salesperson, are the differentiation, and
it is the buyer having a different experience with you
(14:05):
that they are with everybody else. And what all the
data tells us is you're not. You don't look we
have the same problem. The product looks the same, the
service looks the same, You look the same. You know
what doesn't look the same the price. So they go, Okay,
who's cheaper?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Things being equal? Right, Yeah, everything else is the same,
go to price. That's a that's very powerful, Joe, as
you're you're breaking that down, and I unfortunately, I see
a lot of the tactics, like you're saying, where people
are doing and they're they're using AI or technologies and
they're coming up with like this formulaic you know thing,
(14:47):
and it's like, well, I'm hitting hit. It's it's it's
basically the same thing. I get it up, you know
almost I'm pretty much daily, whether it's email or wreck message,
and I'm like, there's no sense of like understanding me
as a potential buyer. It's it's more of I'm I'm
(15:07):
I've got I've got something to sell and I just
want to I gotta find I just you know, I'm
just trying. Anybody could be that, And I'm like, if
anybody could be that. It just it doesn't. That doesn't.
I don't feel drawn to that. I definitely don't feel safe,
like you said, Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, and and and it's remarkable, right and and we
have we have all these great tools to be able
to help us right technology right, and but it's a tool, right,
it doesn't it shouldn't be replacing you. And the human
to human interaction like we're having right now is the
(15:45):
key thing. And people do not feel heard and understood.
Buyers tell us that overwhelmingly they don't feel heard or understood,
so they go not okay, right, they're feeling not okay,
they're nervous systems activated. Right. Oftentimes it brings up their
mommy and daddy issues because either mommy or daddy did
(16:07):
take the time to hear or understand them. Right. Oh,
by the way, mister and missus, business owner, this is
happening all through your business. Your employees don't feel hurt
or understood or care for right caring, just showing that
you care for the customer to really listen to them.
And the survey show that buyers think we do a
(16:28):
horrible job of listening to them.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We go in it's like we're trying to sell them
something and they're like, no, I got a problem I'm
trying to solve. Right, first, help me understand what my
problems really are. You then help me solve them. And
that's where being that mindset shift of I need to
be a guide and not a salesperson comes in.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I think that's such a great I mean insight, Joe.
As you're saying that, you know, that's why I love
having you on the podcast is my synergy is building
on what you're saying there is being a guide helping
that because I think, like you said, if if you're
not clear on that and you're in your employees are
not clear, they're definitely not going to and if they
don't feel safe, there's certainly not going to exude that
(17:09):
into your client's customers because they're not feeling it within
the organization, like and if they're just like, well just
sell more, just get this. Can't you figure this out?
I did this before and you should be able to
figure this out. And it's like, well hold on, let's
back it up. And what I'm hearing you say is,
you know, working with the business owner show from them
all the way down into the organization creating that safety.
(17:31):
And I love that. I love that word because I
use that too in my own coaching a guy somebody
helped understanding that what they need and saying, Okay, maybe
maybe we aren't a good fit for you, and that's
okay too, recognizing you know, we don't have to try
to again. I think, you know, we don't want to
use pressure and manipulation. I mean, unfortunately these things do
(17:54):
work to a degree. They can get us sale and
you can check the box and my quota quota right, like, oh,
I got the sale, you know, because I don't want
to get being gonna be and I'm gonna p I
P you know, performance an improvement plan. So I'm going
to do this. But it's like to what cost? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah? Uh uh exactly and and you know we put
and listen. Life is about how do we deal with pressure? Right?
And so some of the things I see right now is, uh,
there's a huge issue around pipeline development. Uh in businesses,
you know, people are looking at how do we get
new clients? Right? How do we how do we uh
(18:35):
do more business? You know with existing clients and the
pressure that we put on people. What I see is
that they're constantly using CRM tools right to monitor pipelines.
That's a good thing to do as an owner and
as a sales a sales leader, but are we uh
are there the unintended consequences of people putting in stuff
(18:56):
in their uh in their pipe that has that really
isn't qualified and shouldn't be there just so that it
looks like they have a healthy pipeline. I go in
and I'll do pipeline reviews right, and quickly the pipeline
turns into a sewer line. There's a lot of crap
in there, right, And it's to make the bosses feel
(19:19):
better that okay, well we have healthy pipelines when we
really don't. And there's that fine line, right, we need
to develop our pipelines, but not with the unintended consequence
of we're working deals that we shouldn't be working right,
And what are the things the big shifts that I
made years ago working for AT and T. At the time,
(19:40):
I was also in a graduate school getting my MBA,
so I was really pressed for time and stuff, and
I'm like, I'm done. I got to get better at qualifying,
So I would start to look instead of qualifying opportunities
actively look to disqualify them. And I did an analysis,
(20:00):
you know, a win loss analysis, and I learned that, okay,
that there are three key boxes, and people that are
listening think about this and how to apply this uh
to your box to your business. So my three key
boxes were, uh, they had to come in to see us. Uh.
You know, we had a demo center where we could
(20:22):
debble all the hardware and software. We knew that once
they made that commitment, the odds of us winning would
go up. Uh. And the other thing was I had
to have access to people. You know, I couldn't just meet,
say with the VP of it or uh you oftentimes
you get pigeonholeded it. But I needed to speak to
other people.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And the third thing was no more than three bids
because I've always been in new business development. You know,
it's a rain maker bringing in new business. And uh,
we were thirty percent more than our next competitor, much
less chuck and a truck, you know, the small business
that can provide it. So somebody's getting five or six quotes,
it's like I'm out, all right now. I made some
(21:04):
exceptions for certain brand names of checking those three boxes
but they were exceptions that they were rare. So for
the listeners, right, now, what are your key things right?
Where do you win? How do you win? What are
the commonalities? Right? And go through your pipeline And for
most people it's like, oh my god, I don't have
(21:26):
any of those three boxes checked right? What are those
just a few key things?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and it's great to have somebody like you, Joe
that you can pull back look at that I find
and I do find businesses they but what even they
sell something because they're so they're so desperate for they
want to get the sale and it's not the idea,
like you said, they get the sale and now it's
an ideal client. And actually at the end of the day,
is it even profitable? You've got the quote sale? But
(21:53):
now they're a very difficult client to please, you know,
and they're never going to buy from you again most likely.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, you know, And that goes back to buyers are
looking to make a high confident, low regret decision, right,
So we as the sellers right and again I'm breaking
out in hives like some of the deals. You know
that both as a sales leader and as a salesperson,
you know that I won where I knew and typically
(22:22):
knew early on that this customer there going to be
a pain in the ass or you know whatever it is, right,
And always it would come back in sight and I'd
look at myself and say, I knew this early on,
and I took it anyways, and that's on me, right,
that's you know, that's not on them. And another story.
(22:45):
You know a client of mine, a company that I
worked with when I first got in there. Everybody's talking
about it was their largest client, our revenue wise that
they had, and this client was ridiculously demanding. Uh, you know,
the type of people you don't want to work with.
But they were generating so much revenue. And I asked
(23:07):
the question, we make it any money on them?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right? And so we have the controller's office, you know,
run an analysis in financial analysis. We were losing money
and the customer was demoralizing our workforce. Right, So we
met with them. I facilitated the conversation, here are the
rules that we can play by, here's the pricing, and
we agreed to part ways, right, and it was like
(23:34):
a celebration of okay, yeah, the revenue drop. But we
were losing money on it, right, Yeah, and the morale
of the people in the company of having to deal
with this. So that was a very low regret a
sale that was made, or excuse me, a very high
regret sale that was made. So you know, where do
(23:55):
we have that? You know, for business owners out there,
who's your customer that you need to have a serious conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
With, right and they have somebody like you, Joe come
in and help them and guide them. I think is
so important because I've seen exactly what you're talking about, Joe. Particularly,
I've seen it. I've worked with a diversity hire company
where they're subcontractors well a larger company and so they're
pushing all of them down, if you will, And I
get it, they're trying to maximize things, but you've got
(24:23):
to do it. It's got to be mutually beneficial. And
it was not mutually beneficial. It was pretty much one
sided to what your point is great, Joe, and I
feel like business owners can get like you said, they'll
see the revenue that the revenue coming in, but at
the end of the day, actually what's the profit And
that's really what we need to focus on, is what's
the apple.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
David. You know, what's coming up for me is, uh,
you know, we we need to have an intention going
into a sales call, right, and and and two. Oftentimes
salespeople are like, all right, uh it maybe I want
to get a want to get the appointment if I'm
making a prospecting call, or i want to make the sale.
My intention, and I teach this and my attention because
(25:08):
I'm in sales, is to have a relaxed conversation human
being the human being, to see if I can help
them or not. And I'll say that again so the
audience can write it down. And then I want to
unpack it, to have a relaxed conversation human being to
(25:29):
human being, to see if I can help them or not.
So it starts out relaxed. I got to show up relaxed, right.
And here's my metaphor that I use as the snow.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Globe you're listening, Yeah, you got a snow globe there.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, I got a snow globe. I use this with
my clients and I actually give them to them. And
it's snoopy with a woodstock. And this is our this
is our head. Right. When we have less on our mind,
we do better. Our nervous systems. Unfortunately, you know, we're
thinking about all the stuff we need to get done
on the sales call, or we just got you know,
(26:07):
bad news and a voicemail, or we saw something on
the news. We're shaken, right, Remember they're shaken when they
show up at a meeting because their guard is up
around salespeople. I have to be regulated, so they regulate.
So we need to relax, right. And by the way,
going back to Glen, that was one of his big
pieces of advice. It's like, Joe, you're way too uptight.
(26:30):
To see your foreheads all crinkled up and you're really
really intense, and it's like, you've got to relax more.
The next word is conversation. It's got to be a conversation, right.
No one wants to be pitched, right, No one wants
to be sold to. So have a conversation human being,
the human being realizing that they're another human being. They've
(26:52):
got all their pressures at work, they've got their pressures
at all. All, right, really connect on a human level.
And then it's to see if I could help them
or not. Some people aren't ready to be helped, even
though they desperately need it, right, And it's my job
as the guide, right, is the facilitator. I teach how
to facilitate a buying conversation to help them realize, oh
(27:16):
that I need Joe in my life, right or for whatever.
You're a product or services, so you know that's a
philosophy that I teach. And as you know, I mean
too oftentimes with traditional sales training, and you know it's linear, right,
I've run thousands and thousands of sales goals. They are
(27:36):
not linear, right, They are all over the place. That's
why we need to be settled down so that we
can hear the key things to say. You know what, David,
you mentioned you know you mentioned ABC a couple of
minutes ago. Tell me more about that. Right now, I've
got them talking about a potential issue for them. But
(27:56):
so oftentimes we miss it because I've got my ide.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, you've got you've got my other thing I've got
to get through, right, Yeah, And we may be we
may This has been my experience to Jo or I've
I've talked past it. They're actually ready to buy the
and I'm going to keep going and I'm like, I
haven't listening. Better, Like, listen to the cue, listen to
how they're saying what they're right, be calm and and
and curious, uh, and listen and see what what is it?
(28:24):
Like you said, where could I help them?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Go?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
With? I like how you said, I'm going with intention
into the call bill have this conversation or the lax
conversation I'm repeating back everybody gets us the lax conversation.
And to see where I may be able to help them.
I may not be, but hopefully I'm always I'm always looking.
I'm sure you are, like, where can I help I have?
I want to add value? Is there something in a
way that I can serve them?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right? And and part of that process, right is helping
them settle down to see that they want to play
with us?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Right? Because uh, for in sale and in life, right,
our time is incredibly valuable. Where are we putting our
efforts towards? And the metaphor uh that I use uh
and I use this with with customers because oftentimes you know,
you know, even to my business. Now, you know, I
get brought in and and they're on guard, right, and
(29:19):
they're not sharing things with me, and it's my job
to get them to open up. So the metaphor David.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That I use is.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And I'll call the time out. I'll go, you know,
time out. You know, I'm I'm I'm sensing here that uh,
I'm not doing you know, a good job, you know,
asking uh the right questions. And uh, here's a metaphor
I'd like to share with you, David. And the metaphor
is the way that I work in sales is, uh,
(29:47):
we're putting together a puzzle. And David, when we put
together a puzzle, if we're putting a puzzle together, what
does that look like? You can answer me? What I'm
putting together a puzzle? Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, So I'm getting all I'm getting all the pieces
out there, laying them out there, and then I'm trying
to figure out how they all go together, you know,
and what's this? Yeah, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And if we're doing that together, right, we're on the
same side of the day. Yep, We're on the same team.
Unless you've got a crazy mind that pieces upside down.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we lay it all together.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I love what you said. We're on the same team.
We need to put together a puzzle here right. What
I feel like right now is we're playing tennis where
there's a winner and loser on every point, right, and
tennis isn't my game in sales, right. I don't want
you to ever feel like you're losing something, and neither
do I. Neither do I on my end, We're not
(30:47):
on opposite sides of the court. We're sitting down putting
together a puzzle. And when I share that metaphor with them,
they typically start to relax, they start to get it right,
and if they don't, then I realized, Okay, well, if
if I'm not going to get access to people right
and the things that I need to do the right
fit for them at this particular time, and.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's and and that's okay too. I know we're getting
close to end of the podcast. Joe, this has been
very insightful. I hope everybody is listening. Here's show's unique
approach on this, and I love the relationship side of things.
Show that the way you're you're describing it. You know,
we've covered a lot and I know we could definitely
go more, so we'll probably have to have you come
(31:30):
back to the podcast, but I you know, what would
you say, is you know your key takeaway if you
heard nothing else, if you're listening to this and you're
struggling with sales, You're you're struggling and you're whether you're
the business owner, sales manager, what what the case? What
would be your key takeaway?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Here it is and people should write this down. What
does a good day look like? For you? What does
a good day look like for you? And David I
do expectations gap analysis. I go into businesses and organizations
and ask I asked people that what does a good
day look like for you? They don't have any idea, right,
(32:11):
And a good day related directly to sales has to
be process oriented, not results oriented. What are the two
or three key activities that drive business in your particular business?
And those are the boxes that need to be checked right.
And this applies not just to the salespeople on your team,
(32:33):
but in all the other roles that people play. Do
they understand what a good day looks like? And I
promise you they don't. You're very few organization. These people
are all over the place. And I'll close with David
was saying that the scariest part is when I ask people,
when you come to work each day in any role,
(32:55):
how do you know what to work on? You? Know
what the answer is. Almost all the time email, email
is driving people's days, right, instead of what are the
key levers of my business for this particular role, right
that I need to check the box. I don't care
(33:17):
if you've worked twelve hours. If you haven't checked those
two or three boxes, you haven't had a good day yet.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
This goes back to you started with talking about clarity,
right yep, you know, getting really really clear on what
are the levers that move your business right and making
sure people are moving those levers and moving the needle
every single day.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Oh man, you given us great insights. Guys can connect
with Joe and I. We're actually connected on LinkedIn as well,
but the sales catalyst you can conet connect with Joe there. Joe,
thank you so much for being here. I feel like
you This is episode wasn't you know? There's no hype here.
(33:59):
It's really about health, Like how do we build sell
health health? How do we build leadership health? You know,
we want to help you be the healthiest person in
all aspects, and sales is one of those parts of
the big part of the of the business.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Bo. So thank you, my pleasure, thank you for having
me David absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks everybody for being here with us up on the
podcast once again. We of course invite you to like
and subscribe wherever you may find the podcast on your
favorite platform. Leave any comments you have. We'll make sure
that Joe gets them so he can respond to them,
and we look forward to having you back again on
our next episode of the Business round Table Podcast. Thanks
again everybody for joining us. Have a great day.
Hello, and welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I
am your host, David Carr, founder of Steward your Business
bringing people together to accomplish great things. And this week
we have another great new guest, Joe Gregory, the sales Catalyst.
I'm so happy to have Joe on here. Joe, welcome
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, thank you so much, David, And it's a joy
to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Excellent, excellent. You know, sales comes up a lot for
me and I wanted to have you on here. You
and I have some mutual connections. We're a part of
another networking groups, Success Champions Network, among others. And one
of the things that when when I first met you, Joe,
that I felt was so valuable and why I wanted
to have you on the podcast is that, you know,
there's a lot of business owners that their way approached sales,
(01:20):
how they look at things is not clear and they
lack some clarity. And uh, night before we started even
recording this, I was sharing how we're at another event
and giving greater clarity and businesses like I just need
to sell more. What am I selling? And so I
just wanted to bring you on here on the podcast today, Joe,
because you have a wealth of experience. We're gonna give
(01:41):
you an opportunity to share. Share that today. Get into that.
But you know, take us back, Joe, where tell us
about your story in your your background, where you came from,
and why you are you know, so passionate about what
you're doing now at the sales Catalyst today.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, and uh, thanks for that question. And so my
my journey and I'm sure at one point because it'll
come up later in our conversations. I was a psychology
major for my undergraduate degree at the University of Richmond
in Virginia, And little did I know at the time
that psychology is really what life is about, right, and
(02:21):
what sales is about because we're just other human beings
and understanding of what people what makes people tick. So
psychology has been a deep interest of mine and I
bookshelves filled books around a psychology and too psychology with you,
I'll turn the clock back. So when I when I
(02:42):
first got out of college, I got in I was
in investment property sales and then decided to make a pivot.
And that's another key lesson in life right as we
make pivots, especially now more than ever right for people.
And so I went to work for AT and T
in New Jersey and it was a real interesting start
(03:03):
for me and kind of ironic that I have my
own and for eleven years now I've had my own
sales coaching, training and sales performance business. And when I
started with AT and T selling hardware and software solutions
to companies in northern New Jersey, quite frankly, I sucked.
I was I was terrible, and I got put on
(03:27):
the uh, the old performance improvement plan, yeah, which you know,
it's like I'm starting to break out in hives just
thinking about it, right, I mean, there's the worst three
letters to salespeople, you know, pee a pip right, And
unlike most folks though, I took it seriously and it
was embarrassing to me, and I was like, Okay, I've
(03:50):
got to up level my skills. You know. I went
from investment property sales of having to do three or
four deals a year to make some decent money, right
to now I got to do six deals are more
a month, right, So it was completely different, and thankfully
I got help. I got help from one of the
top sales guys. In the office. He spent several days
(04:12):
running sales calls with me and gave me some really
good feedback and thank you, Glenn, Kay if you're out
there anywhere listening. It made a huge difference for me
the rest of my career. So that taught me that, Okay,
little adjustments can give you outsize results. Right, you don't
(04:36):
have to throw out the baby with the bath water, right,
just make some adjustments. And he gave me some adjustments
to make. I took him to heart, made them. In
my career took off from there. So I was in
a telecom hardware and software sales for a couple of decades,
(04:56):
multiple leadership roles I got from. Moved from Jersey to Chicago,
to Boston, back to New Jersey and then to Colorado.
So relocated, taking promotions and greater responsibilities. And along the way,
since I worked with Loosent Technologies, which was AT and T,
(05:16):
which became Lucid Technologies, which became a buy in exponents,
you know, large companies, I went through all sorts of
training and development, not just sales things, but this is
specific to sales today, and I thought, you know, that
would be really cool to do at some point in
my life and then fast forward in two thousand and nine,
(05:39):
like so many others, I got laid off. You know,
my branch was doing great, we were performing well. But
life happens, right yep, and absolutely, you know, we get kicked,
we get knocked down, and what are we going to do?
And while that was a painful transition point for me,
I went to work for one of the large, very
(06:00):
recognizable brand names of sales and leadership development companies and
did that for two and a half years, then went
to work briefly for a client of mine and then decided, okay,
now what am I going to do? And I'm like
this on my own? Yes, right, so another pivot point studying. Okay,
(06:20):
I'm going to develop all my own intellectual material, the
things that I've learned over the years, and go and
help people like Glenn did when I first started. And
I was so fortunate to work for large companies where
I got all sorts of really good training. A lot
of people don't have access to that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yep. Absolutely, absolutely well, and that's why we have you
on the podcast, because we're all about giving, helping and
hearing from different voices. You know, I find that you know,
you've got to find somebody that resonates with you. It's
kind of like a doctor, a counselor. It's like a
lot of people can do sales, but it's like, do
identify with Joe and his method, the way he's showing up,
(07:03):
the way he coaches, and and and and So I
love having different voices on here because I'm hoping you,
as a listener leaning in, you're like saying, maybe I've
heard somebody else talk about sales in the past, but
Joe's got a different perspective. He's been through a different journey.
We all have different experiences, and so to hear Joe
your journey both both working in these large companies over
the course of your and now running your own company.
(07:26):
And it's a different thing when I feel I'm a
memoism now I'm actually living this out and somebody else's
this is mine that I've created and what does that
look like? And I feel like a lot of business owners,
I'll put myself in there too. We make mistakes when
it comes to sales and approach, and we try to
do a one size fits all or just like, well,
(07:49):
this is the this is it. It's like like you said,
you just told me one example of a different sales cycle,
and you're like, well, I can't apply that same thing.
There's a different way in a different relationship and a
different end street. And so understanding, you know, I think
there's a lot of people out there nowadays that say
we'll just do these tactics and that's not it doesn't work,
especially like I said something the oldest I can hit
(08:11):
up all the time, or like well, just make more
sales or you know, And I see business owners struggling
with saying this because they're not clear. And I love
to dig into a little bit. What are the common
mistakes you see as you're in your journey and Joe
that business owners are making in this sales conversation?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, and uh, there's a lot to unpacked there. Yeah,
and I'll and I'll start by saying that, uh, not all,
but a lot of business owners themselves have been rain
makers right when they started their business, uh, by necessity. Now,
necessity is a great motivator, by the way, They had
(08:52):
to go out and sell, right, So they were the
ones bringing in the clients and the customers and getting
things done and the and a lot of sales executives
that work for larger corporations. The trap that we fall
into is my way is the way that works right.
And I'll never forget when I first became a running teams,
(09:14):
I got relocated by AT and T to Chicago to
open up a branch in a suburb of Chicago, and
I was beating my head against the wall. Why don't
people do what I do right? Why don't they put
the time and the effort in that I do. Why
don't they sell the way that I do? And that's
when my hair started going prematurely gray. So when I
(09:37):
started leading teams of people, now it's genetic, but it
did coincide with that, and so many owners and executives
and sales leaders it's like, it's like, this is the
way that we do it right. Well, I got to
help David be the best David he can be. Right
when Gwen was working with me years ago, he was
(09:57):
trying to help Joe be the best Joe because it's
not a one size fits all. And I think a
lot of owners have been really successful, say on the sales,
you know part of it. So it's like, this is
how I want you to do it right, So right there.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
That's a huge one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The other big mistake owners, it's not necessarily a mistake,
it's how you get your business story. But at some
point you've got to take yourself out of the equation, right,
I mean, you cannot be the number one rain maker.
That means you're not an owner. You have a job, right.
(10:39):
If you're looking to increase the value of your company, right,
you have to take yourself out of the equation and
have a team of salespeople that are self reliant. You
need to provide focus and direction, right and arm them
with good training and coaching as well. But that's another stake,
(11:00):
right is that? Uh, you know when to take themselves
out of the question. And it's not just in sales, right,
and it's other way business too. You need to step back.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, absolutely well, I mean that's a conversation I've had
a number of guests, especially in the merger's acquisition based joke,
because like you said, why would I want to have
a business? You're if you're leaving the business. If you
want to leave the business, you're the remain rain maker.
You know all this stuff, You've not been you haven't
built a team, Like what am I actually buying here,
how valuable is the company actually? Right?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah? And then uh and and by the way, it's
not just business owners that do this, uh, sales managers.
When we first step into a role as being sales manager,
we want to jump in and be the hero, right
and save the deal and stuff, and that that doesn't develop.
There's times when you need to do that, but it
should be the exception, right. You need to develop people.
(11:53):
And again it goes back to my uh opening comment
about you know, majoring in psychology and being a huge
student of human psychologies. We're dealing with other human beings
and that's what sales is. Unless you're selling a commodity
online and stuff, we're dealing with human beings. And when
we're dealing with human beings, there are two nervous systems
(12:15):
that are interacting, right, and we move between fight at
flight and freeze and also being in our parasympathetic nervous
system where we're calm, cool and collected right on sales calls. Right.
Buyers by definition right, they're nervous, right, so we need
(12:35):
to be able to help settle them down. A lot
of the coaching I do is around how do we
show up in a way where our buyers feel safe,
right right now, and right now, buyers don't feel safe.
They're overwhelmed with information, they're tired of the traditional sales tactics.
They don't want to deal with a salesperson. What they
(12:57):
want is a guide, a guide to help them make
sense of all the information that's out there, how to
navigate their own politics within their own company, and how
in the world do we make a good decision? Right?
And a good decision I defined is high confidence, lower
gret right. And it's that lowergret. You know, oftentimes people
(13:19):
are confident when they buy something. In afterwards it's like,
oh god, that you know that wasn't a good decision.
So right now we've got buyers are fearful of messing
up right. So that's why there's delayed sales cycles, there's
uh stall deals, no decision, all those things. They're afraid
of making a bad decision. And one more point of
(13:42):
that that I'll let you comment on. It is the
big problem that I see around all of that is differentiation.
And my message to people, my tagline is how you
sell matters. You as the salesperson, are the differentiation, and
it is the buyer having a different experience with you
(14:05):
that they are with everybody else. And what all the
data tells us is you're not. You don't look we
have the same problem. The product looks the same, the
service looks the same, You look the same. You know
what doesn't look the same the price. So they go, Okay,
who's cheaper?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Things being equal? Right, Yeah, everything else is the same,
go to price. That's a that's very powerful, Joe, as
you're you're breaking that down, and I unfortunately, I see
a lot of the tactics, like you're saying, where people
are doing and they're they're using AI or technologies and
they're coming up with like this formulaic you know thing,
(14:47):
and it's like, well, I'm hitting hit. It's it's it's
basically the same thing. I get it up, you know
almost I'm pretty much daily, whether it's email or wreck message,
and I'm like, there's no sense of like understanding me
as a potential buyer. It's it's more of I'm I'm
(15:07):
I've got I've got something to sell and I just
want to I gotta find I just you know, I'm
just trying. Anybody could be that, And I'm like, if
anybody could be that. It just it doesn't. That doesn't.
I don't feel drawn to that. I definitely don't feel safe,
like you said, Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, and and and it's remarkable, right and and we
have we have all these great tools to be able
to help us right technology right, and but it's a tool, right,
it doesn't it shouldn't be replacing you. And the human
to human interaction like we're having right now is the
(15:45):
key thing. And people do not feel heard and understood.
Buyers tell us that overwhelmingly they don't feel heard or understood,
so they go not okay, right, they're feeling not okay,
they're nervous systems activated. Right. Oftentimes it brings up their
mommy and daddy issues because either mommy or daddy did
(16:07):
take the time to hear or understand them. Right. Oh,
by the way, mister and missus, business owner, this is
happening all through your business. Your employees don't feel hurt
or understood or care for right caring, just showing that
you care for the customer to really listen to them.
And the survey show that buyers think we do a
(16:28):
horrible job of listening to them.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We go in it's like we're trying to sell them
something and they're like, no, I got a problem I'm
trying to solve. Right, first, help me understand what my
problems really are. You then help me solve them. And
that's where being that mindset shift of I need to
be a guide and not a salesperson comes in.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I think that's such a great I mean insight, Joe.
As you're saying that, you know, that's why I love
having you on the podcast is my synergy is building
on what you're saying there is being a guide helping
that because I think, like you said, if if you're
not clear on that and you're in your employees are
not clear, they're definitely not going to and if they
don't feel safe, there's certainly not going to exude that
(17:09):
into your client's customers because they're not feeling it within
the organization, like and if they're just like, well just
sell more, just get this. Can't you figure this out?
I did this before and you should be able to
figure this out. And it's like, well hold on, let's
back it up. And what I'm hearing you say is,
you know, working with the business owner show from them
all the way down into the organization creating that safety.
(17:31):
And I love that. I love that word because I
use that too in my own coaching a guy somebody
helped understanding that what they need and saying, Okay, maybe
maybe we aren't a good fit for you, and that's
okay too, recognizing you know, we don't have to try
to again. I think, you know, we don't want to
use pressure and manipulation. I mean, unfortunately these things do
(17:54):
work to a degree. They can get us sale and
you can check the box and my quota quota right, like, oh,
I got the sale, you know, because I don't want
to get being gonna be and I'm gonna p I
P you know, performance an improvement plan. So I'm going
to do this. But it's like to what cost? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah? Uh uh exactly and and you know we put
and listen. Life is about how do we deal with pressure? Right?
And so some of the things I see right now is, uh,
there's a huge issue around pipeline development. Uh in businesses,
you know, people are looking at how do we get
new clients? Right? How do we how do we uh
(18:35):
do more business? You know with existing clients and the
pressure that we put on people. What I see is
that they're constantly using CRM tools right to monitor pipelines.
That's a good thing to do as an owner and
as a sales a sales leader, but are we uh
are there the unintended consequences of people putting in stuff
(18:56):
in their uh in their pipe that has that really
isn't qualified and shouldn't be there just so that it
looks like they have a healthy pipeline. I go in
and I'll do pipeline reviews right, and quickly the pipeline
turns into a sewer line. There's a lot of crap
in there, right, And it's to make the bosses feel
(19:19):
better that okay, well we have healthy pipelines when we
really don't. And there's that fine line, right, we need
to develop our pipelines, but not with the unintended consequence
of we're working deals that we shouldn't be working right,
And what are the things the big shifts that I
made years ago working for AT and T. At the time,
(19:40):
I was also in a graduate school getting my MBA,
so I was really pressed for time and stuff, and
I'm like, I'm done. I got to get better at qualifying,
So I would start to look instead of qualifying opportunities
actively look to disqualify them. And I did an analysis,
(20:00):
you know, a win loss analysis, and I learned that, okay,
that there are three key boxes, and people that are
listening think about this and how to apply this uh
to your box to your business. So my three key
boxes were, uh, they had to come in to see us. Uh.
You know, we had a demo center where we could
(20:22):
debble all the hardware and software. We knew that once
they made that commitment, the odds of us winning would
go up. Uh. And the other thing was I had
to have access to people. You know, I couldn't just meet,
say with the VP of it or uh you oftentimes
you get pigeonholeded it. But I needed to speak to
other people.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And the third thing was no more than three bids
because I've always been in new business development. You know,
it's a rain maker bringing in new business. And uh,
we were thirty percent more than our next competitor, much
less chuck and a truck, you know, the small business
that can provide it. So somebody's getting five or six quotes,
it's like I'm out, all right now. I made some
(21:04):
exceptions for certain brand names of checking those three boxes
but they were exceptions that they were rare. So for
the listeners, right, now, what are your key things right?
Where do you win? How do you win? What are
the commonalities? Right? And go through your pipeline And for
most people it's like, oh my god, I don't have
(21:26):
any of those three boxes checked right? What are those
just a few key things?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and it's great to have somebody like you, Joe
that you can pull back look at that I find
and I do find businesses they but what even they
sell something because they're so they're so desperate for they
want to get the sale and it's not the idea,
like you said, they get the sale and now it's
an ideal client. And actually at the end of the day,
is it even profitable? You've got the quote sale? But
(21:53):
now they're a very difficult client to please, you know,
and they're never going to buy from you again most likely.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, you know, And that goes back to buyers are
looking to make a high confident, low regret decision, right,
So we as the sellers right and again I'm breaking
out in hives like some of the deals. You know
that both as a sales leader and as a salesperson,
you know that I won where I knew and typically
(22:22):
knew early on that this customer there going to be
a pain in the ass or you know whatever it is, right,
And always it would come back in sight and I'd
look at myself and say, I knew this early on,
and I took it anyways, and that's on me, right,
that's you know, that's not on them. And another story.
(22:45):
You know a client of mine, a company that I
worked with when I first got in there. Everybody's talking
about it was their largest client, our revenue wise that
they had, and this client was ridiculously demanding. Uh, you know,
the type of people you don't want to work with.
But they were generating so much revenue. And I asked
(23:07):
the question, we make it any money on them?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right? And so we have the controller's office, you know,
run an analysis in financial analysis. We were losing money
and the customer was demoralizing our workforce. Right, So we
met with them. I facilitated the conversation, here are the
rules that we can play by, here's the pricing, and
we agreed to part ways, right, and it was like
(23:34):
a celebration of okay, yeah, the revenue drop. But we
were losing money on it, right, Yeah, and the morale
of the people in the company of having to deal
with this. So that was a very low regret a
sale that was made, or excuse me, a very high
regret sale that was made. So you know, where do
(23:55):
we have that? You know, for business owners out there,
who's your customer that you need to have a serious conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
With, right and they have somebody like you, Joe come
in and help them and guide them. I think is
so important because I've seen exactly what you're talking about, Joe. Particularly,
I've seen it. I've worked with a diversity hire company
where they're subcontractors well a larger company and so they're
pushing all of them down, if you will, And I
get it, they're trying to maximize things, but you've got
(24:23):
to do it. It's got to be mutually beneficial. And
it was not mutually beneficial. It was pretty much one
sided to what your point is great, Joe, and I
feel like business owners can get like you said, they'll
see the revenue that the revenue coming in, but at
the end of the day, actually what's the profit And
that's really what we need to focus on, is what's
the apple.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
David. You know, what's coming up for me is, uh,
you know, we we need to have an intention going
into a sales call, right, and and and two. Oftentimes
salespeople are like, all right, uh it maybe I want
to get a want to get the appointment if I'm
making a prospecting call, or i want to make the sale.
My intention, and I teach this and my attention because
(25:08):
I'm in sales, is to have a relaxed conversation human
being the human being, to see if I can help
them or not. And I'll say that again so the
audience can write it down. And then I want to
unpack it, to have a relaxed conversation human being to
(25:29):
human being, to see if I can help them or not.
So it starts out relaxed. I got to show up relaxed, right.
And here's my metaphor that I use as the snow.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Globe you're listening, Yeah, you got a snow globe there.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, I got a snow globe. I use this with
my clients and I actually give them to them. And
it's snoopy with a woodstock. And this is our this
is our head. Right. When we have less on our mind,
we do better. Our nervous systems. Unfortunately, you know, we're
thinking about all the stuff we need to get done
on the sales call, or we just got you know,
(26:07):
bad news and a voicemail, or we saw something on
the news. We're shaken, right, Remember they're shaken when they
show up at a meeting because their guard is up
around salespeople. I have to be regulated, so they regulate.
So we need to relax, right. And by the way,
going back to Glen, that was one of his big
pieces of advice. It's like, Joe, you're way too uptight.
(26:30):
To see your foreheads all crinkled up and you're really
really intense, and it's like, you've got to relax more.
The next word is conversation. It's got to be a conversation, right.
No one wants to be pitched, right, No one wants
to be sold to. So have a conversation human being,
the human being realizing that they're another human being. They've
(26:52):
got all their pressures at work, they've got their pressures
at all. All, right, really connect on a human level.
And then it's to see if I could help them
or not. Some people aren't ready to be helped, even
though they desperately need it, right, And it's my job
as the guide, right, is the facilitator. I teach how
to facilitate a buying conversation to help them realize, oh
(27:16):
that I need Joe in my life, right or for whatever.
You're a product or services, so you know that's a
philosophy that I teach. And as you know, I mean
too oftentimes with traditional sales training, and you know it's linear, right,
I've run thousands and thousands of sales goals. They are
(27:36):
not linear, right, They are all over the place. That's
why we need to be settled down so that we
can hear the key things to say. You know what, David,
you mentioned you know you mentioned ABC a couple of
minutes ago. Tell me more about that. Right now, I've
got them talking about a potential issue for them. But
(27:56):
so oftentimes we miss it because I've got my ide.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, you've got you've got my other thing I've got
to get through, right, Yeah, And we may be we
may This has been my experience to Jo or I've
I've talked past it. They're actually ready to buy the
and I'm going to keep going and I'm like, I
haven't listening. Better, Like, listen to the cue, listen to
how they're saying what they're right, be calm and and
and curious, uh, and listen and see what what is it?
(28:24):
Like you said, where could I help them?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Go?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
With? I like how you said, I'm going with intention
into the call bill have this conversation or the lax
conversation I'm repeating back everybody gets us the lax conversation.
And to see where I may be able to help them.
I may not be, but hopefully I'm always I'm always looking.
I'm sure you are, like, where can I help I have?
I want to add value? Is there something in a
way that I can serve them?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right? And and part of that process, right is helping
them settle down to see that they want to play
with us?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Right? Because uh, for in sale and in life, right,
our time is incredibly valuable. Where are we putting our
efforts towards? And the metaphor uh that I use uh
and I use this with with customers because oftentimes you know,
you know, even to my business. Now, you know, I
get brought in and and they're on guard, right, and
(29:19):
they're not sharing things with me, and it's my job
to get them to open up. So the metaphor David.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That I use is.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And I'll call the time out. I'll go, you know,
time out. You know, I'm I'm I'm sensing here that uh,
I'm not doing you know, a good job, you know,
asking uh the right questions. And uh, here's a metaphor
I'd like to share with you, David. And the metaphor
is the way that I work in sales is, uh,
(29:47):
we're putting together a puzzle. And David, when we put
together a puzzle, if we're putting a puzzle together, what
does that look like? You can answer me? What I'm
putting together a puzzle? Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, So I'm getting all I'm getting all the pieces
out there, laying them out there, and then I'm trying
to figure out how they all go together, you know,
and what's this? Yeah, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And if we're doing that together, right, we're on the
same side of the day. Yep, We're on the same team.
Unless you've got a crazy mind that pieces upside down.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we lay it all together.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I love what you said. We're on the same team.
We need to put together a puzzle here right. What
I feel like right now is we're playing tennis where
there's a winner and loser on every point, right, and
tennis isn't my game in sales, right. I don't want
you to ever feel like you're losing something, and neither
do I. Neither do I on my end, We're not
(30:47):
on opposite sides of the court. We're sitting down putting
together a puzzle. And when I share that metaphor with them,
they typically start to relax, they start to get it right,
and if they don't, then I realized, Okay, well, if
if I'm not going to get access to people right
and the things that I need to do the right
fit for them at this particular time, and.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's and and that's okay too. I know we're getting
close to end of the podcast. Joe, this has been
very insightful. I hope everybody is listening. Here's show's unique
approach on this, and I love the relationship side of things.
Show that the way you're you're describing it. You know,
we've covered a lot and I know we could definitely
go more, so we'll probably have to have you come
(31:30):
back to the podcast, but I you know, what would
you say, is you know your key takeaway if you
heard nothing else, if you're listening to this and you're
struggling with sales, You're you're struggling and you're whether you're
the business owner, sales manager, what what the case? What
would be your key takeaway?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Here it is and people should write this down. What
does a good day look like? For you? What does
a good day look like for you? And David I
do expectations gap analysis. I go into businesses and organizations
and ask I asked people that what does a good
day look like for you? They don't have any idea, right,
(32:11):
And a good day related directly to sales has to
be process oriented, not results oriented. What are the two
or three key activities that drive business in your particular business?
And those are the boxes that need to be checked right.
And this applies not just to the salespeople on your team,
(32:33):
but in all the other roles that people play. Do
they understand what a good day looks like? And I
promise you they don't. You're very few organization. These people
are all over the place. And I'll close with David
was saying that the scariest part is when I ask people,
when you come to work each day in any role,
(32:55):
how do you know what to work on? You? Know
what the answer is. Almost all the time email, email
is driving people's days, right, instead of what are the
key levers of my business for this particular role, right
that I need to check the box. I don't care
(33:17):
if you've worked twelve hours. If you haven't checked those
two or three boxes, you haven't had a good day yet.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
This goes back to you started with talking about clarity,
right yep, you know, getting really really clear on what
are the levers that move your business right and making
sure people are moving those levers and moving the needle
every single day.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Oh man, you given us great insights. Guys can connect
with Joe and I. We're actually connected on LinkedIn as well,
but the sales catalyst you can conet connect with Joe there. Joe,
thank you so much for being here. I feel like
you This is episode wasn't you know? There's no hype here.
(33:59):
It's really about health, Like how do we build sell
health health? How do we build leadership health? You know,
we want to help you be the healthiest person in
all aspects, and sales is one of those parts of
the big part of the of the business.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Bo. So thank you, my pleasure, thank you for having
me David absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks everybody for being here with us up on the
podcast once again. We of course invite you to like
and subscribe wherever you may find the podcast on your
favorite platform. Leave any comments you have. We'll make sure
that Joe gets them so he can respond to them,
and we look forward to having you back again on
our next episode of the Business round Table Podcast. Thanks
again everybody for joining us. Have a great day.
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