October 14, 2025 • 36 mins
What if the biggest drag on your business isn’t the market—but the friction you’re creating inside your own company?
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Ryan Chute, Partner at Wizard of Ads® for Essential Services and founder of America’s Favorite Essential Home Services.
Ryan shares his journey from being a “tyrant manager” in retail to becoming a relational, brand-forward leader after discovering the Wizard of Ads principles. Today, he helps essential service contractors (HVAC, plumbing, electrical) grow 4–10X by aligning brand, story, and culture while eliminating friction that slows down growth.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Connect with Ryan Chute:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wizardryanchute
Wizard of Ads®: https://wizardofads.org
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Ryan Chute, Partner at Wizard of Ads® for Essential Services and founder of America’s Favorite Essential Home Services.
Ryan shares his journey from being a “tyrant manager” in retail to becoming a relational, brand-forward leader after discovering the Wizard of Ads principles. Today, he helps essential service contractors (HVAC, plumbing, electrical) grow 4–10X by aligning brand, story, and culture while eliminating friction that slows down growth.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why most growth plateaus are caused by internal friction, not external factors
- How transactional leadership damages culture and customer experience
- Why brand and culture are inseparable in creating sustainable growth
- The difference between quick-fix marketing and holistic strategy
- How to prepare your company to scale—or even exit profitably
- Practical steps to shift from short-term thinking to legacy building
Connect with Ryan Chute:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wizardryanchute
Wizard of Ads®: https://wizardofads.org
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hold on, didn't didn't loop it? Let me try again.
Let me you should add that in there. Make sure
my little media is that is.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh, that's why I didn't put that in there.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to the Business round Table podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr Steward your business. We have another great guest
here this week.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Shoot, I'm super excited to have Ryan on here. You're
going to get a totally different respective on some things
we haven't talked. We've talked about marketing and branding, but
I think you're gonna get a hold from perspective here today.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Welcome to the podcast. Ryan.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Hey, David, thank you so much for having me. I'm
grateful to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, I know, super super happy to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Because when we were talking Ryan, were preparing for this
podcast about a month ago, and we were talking about
some of the issues that you see and we're getting
into the meat of it today from you know, ads
and marketing and branding, and what I just thought was, Yeah,
this is a unique perspective in a way that maybe
I haven't heard the same way, and I'm excited you
(01:29):
to share that. But before we get into that, I
liked folks to learn a little bit more about you
and what brought you Ryan to Wizard of Ads and
as a partner and leading this company, because I think
I like having what I call the origin story, what
led you to and why do you do what you do?
And we're going to get into the weeds of it today.
So Ryan, if you don't mind, just take us back
(01:49):
a little bit about your journey as a business owner.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Absolutely, well look at it. I'm super blessed to be
able to run an eight figure agency today with the
Wizard of Ads helping companies grow other businesses. I'm a
big proponent of marketing is far too important to be
left to a marketing department, and like to look at
things holistically, but life wasn't always that way. In twenty
fifteen is when I met Roy Williams and he's the
(02:14):
Wizard of Ads and he had a as a giant
sixteenth century Spanish tower standing on the hill in Austin, Texas,
and I went to a class of his after reading
his books and his Monday Morning Memo for twenty years,
and it was a really transformational moment for me. It
was just one of those times when I just realized
(02:34):
my life has been a grind.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It has been just an.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Absolute battle every single day, day in and day out,
living transactionally in a friction filled world. You know, I
came from the gulags of retail, where you have bad
bosses and moral behavior and everything is based on performance.
It's feasted and all of the challenges that come with
(03:00):
with you know that nature of business. And Uh, I
spent time living around despicable acts as much as I
have weaponized fear, shame and guilt. And I was I was,
I was mimicking that that behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I was.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I was a bad leader. I was a I was
a deadly manager. I was very proficient at what I did.
I got results, but I got results with a stick,
not a carrot. And ultimately, when I got to meet Roy, uh,
the perspective of brand Yeah is entrenched in relational thinking,
(03:44):
which is entrenched in in thriving nature and and mindset.
And and it's really had me start reflecting on you know,
this idea of of what I was doing. I was
getting results transactionally, but it was constantly changing, it was
constantly guarding the vault. It was felt like I was
(04:08):
being productive and successful in the aggregate, but really to
look back now fifteen years gosh, ten years later, since
twenty fifteen, it's dramatic how much my life has changed.
To recognize the things that cause friction in a business
(04:31):
with customers, with co workers, frankly, with ourselves as individuals
looking inward. And while I by no means have perfected it,
I needed to do this to train myself as much
as I needed to recognize that this is the thing
that got in a lot of people's way and can
(04:51):
improve their lives as leaders.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Well, I think that's why I want you to share
a little bit about that, Ryan, because as you know too,
you know, I lead from what I live, and I
that's what I want people to hear, like, Ryan, you're
living this out. This isn't just like oh I just
came up with this. I I've been going through this
process and and I really appreciate that. And that's what
I love to have voices like yours on the podcast
(05:14):
to share to those as like, Okay, this is not
just you know, Ran didn't just do this overnight. This
has been something he's been working on for years. And
that's where you're going to be able to lean in
and get some great insights from Ryan today, like how
can you shift Like you said, just I think people
maybe take too loosely at times marketing and how we
do this and how we get the messages I know
(05:34):
I have, And so having somebody like you Ryan give
a different perspective and challenge us how we show up
in our companies and how we're leading and getting that
message is really important. So yeah, you know, and we're
going to dive into that because you know you're going
to talk. I know, and I've had some other folks
in sales, not so much in marketing but recently on sales,
(05:56):
but same kind of thing. You know, how we manipulate
that can be manipulative and use these tactics that are
not really you know, maybe they might be able to
get some results in the short term, but this is
not a legacy.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
They go up live and I see so much today
and it's like, man, how can we do it better?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
How can we have greater influence right and and and
make something that's really meaningful? And I think that's what
you've been working on again, that's why we have some
wizard of ads and just in your background, and I
really liked, like when I'm led with this episode of
like you talked about friction, we talked a lot about
that and and where there's friction and meaning that things
(06:35):
should be able to flow better, and how can we
do that, how can we make it to that from
my persecutive I'm looking at people, you're looking at the
same thing with people, But how we're in creating the
messaging the ads, right, And I'm excited for you to
share a little bit more about, you know, how do
we come up with a strategy in branding versus just
(06:58):
kind of throwing things at the wall Ryan and just
trying to like, oh, what's the newest, the greatest thing? Uh,
you know, and so maybe just talk with us about
you know where you had you mentioned a little bit
about this this turning point where you we talked about
like you recognize the friction, and now we're like, no,
I'm moving, I'm not along of the I want to
start thinking more forward thinking and how we're going to
(07:20):
do this, and I want to reduce the friction. I
don't want to be the bottle that talk to us
a little bit about how can we start to help
in in marketing and branding, you know, reduce the friction.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, that's it's it's think of it this way, maybe
for the visual folks in the in the room. Is
is removing friction from the flywheel. If if we think
of the physics of friction and the physics of a
flywheel and how we want to get it to go
faster and build momentum and inertia. We have to take
the rust off the flywheel. We have to make sure
(07:53):
that the parts aren't in they're not causing friction, but
they might be intention with each other. So tension is important,
but friction is not good.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's a great Yeah, that's a great analogy. Right, Yeah,
you need both. You need you need that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You have to have some tension in there with the
Flywell won't.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Work right, it'll be sloppy and messy and it won't
it won't get that speed up. And what we're talking
about here is the speed is your profitability, right, how
much can you make more money? And that's your flywheel
going faster and accelerating your money mechanism. The resistance, the friction,
that's all the expense to your business, both in money, effort,
(08:36):
and time because those resources are a drag. If you
put too much weight in the system, What I mean
by that is if you have too many employees, or
too many systems, or too many get out of jail
free cards what we call the weasel words at Wizard
of Ads, Right, you're creating friction that doesn't need to
be there. Instead, you need to create an operation that
(08:58):
eliminates as many of those get out of jail free
cards as you can for both of these lies and
and and the customers.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right, No, absolutely, Ryan, I mean I think there is
breaking that down and then coming up with a strategy.
How do we rather than and here sometimes we make
the mistake, like you said, of maybe throwing things that
maybe making it more complicated.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
We're like, hey, that's not the right answer.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Let's like take the slow it down a little bit,
break it down, and I think you know, like thinking
forward if you will, So how would you know what
would when we're looking at When you say this to Ryan,
to me, I hear like, oh, I like the word holistic.
Are we looking at this thing holistic versus just my
little part here, my little part there?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
What does that actually mean? Ryan? To you and working
with clients.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, you know, the one of the biggest things to
recognize in businesses is that you know, for years, we've
created silos, and that typically comes from corporate strategy, and
that's mainly because you have a bunch of people who
are absolutely terrified to lose their job and doing everything
they can to protect it, so they make stupid decisions
(10:06):
for the benefit of themselves under the guise of the
greater good. What you're actually getting is watered down nonsense
nine times out of ten. And what we're really looking
to solve here is how do we make it great
on all fronts well when it comes to the culture
and experience standpoint. This is something that my partner, Ray
(10:27):
Segren taught me. One of the main reasons why I've
become a Wizard of AD's partner was because of Ray,
and he talks about your brand are the stories that
we tell to the world to let them know what
you stand forward and stand against. And it's the culture
that drives the experience that the customer is going to have.
(10:49):
So it's crucial that our brand is in alignment with
our culture. Our culture is in alignment with our brand,
and that indeed the culture is delivering on the experience.
And where I took it from there was the thing
we need to focus on then first, the center of
our strategy needs to start with our culture. And the
(11:09):
first person to do that is the person whose intentions matter, right,
the leader, the person who chose to start this thing
and run it a certain way.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, and I, as you know, Ryan, I work with
companies and their teams, and what I found is oftentimes
companies miss the mark by not different really defining culture clearly.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Their values are not clear. And this cascades in a
lot of different ways.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean, as an example, I had had insurance broker
on the podcast, Ryan, and he's like, I'm trying to
go get you insurance and you can't explain to me
all of the things that you do.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
What do you essentially Standford?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Give me your story narrative because I'm trying to go
to bad for you, but you can't explain this to me.
You can't explain this to me. How are your team
for your customers eperiencing right? Like you said, the external
experience or internal experience?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:04):
You know what, It's funny you say that because it
really does boil down to some really astoundingly obvious truths
when you say them out loud and they're not true
or obvious until you just kind of say that the
obvious things and that's the human beings. The brain is
designed to cope. It is not designed to thrive in
(12:25):
the think complex it is it is. It takes extra
effort to do those things. As leaders, our job is
to create an environment to make it astoundingly easy for
people to do their jobs by doing the hard work
for them upfront, from curating your inventory and pricing, to
(12:45):
calculating your compensation package, to leaning into internal motivators versus
external motivators, to heck, even how we measure people right
and holding them accountable to the things they can control,
not the things they can't right.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely, So can you give me an example, I mean,
like a brand or one that you've worked with, Ryan
of like where they've lived this out, they've got that
alignment of you know, the internal alignment that leads to
that external residence where you've work with somebody that got
that right.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, there's you know, there's a company in the Carolinas
that is it has been doing a ton of work
around making things easier for their salespeople so that they
can make it easier for their customers. One of the
things that I worked on with them about four months
ago when we were at our annual retreat. Was the
(13:43):
club membership that they have now, A club membership in
a home service space. HVAC and Plumbing soon to be
Electrical is a company that wants to be able to
deliver perks and services to make sure that the customer's
equipment stays maintained for the long term. Now, some people
use that to weaponize against customers, to make it a
(14:04):
sales opportunity every time they show up, and other companies
make it a true perk and really lean into taking
care of club members before they take care of of
randos in the canoe.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So, at the end of the day, we want new
customers to step into our family, but not everyone's going
to be part of our membership, and that's okay. We're
looking for the people who want to do business the
way we do business. So what can we do to
make it so astoundingly easy for the customer to go, oh,
I want to be a part of that. Yeah, it
(14:38):
starts with elevating the perks, minimizing the cost of the membership,
making it just so astoundingly obvious that it's a no
brainer to to have advantage of this thing and then
to be ultra generous well before it pays off until
such time as they need something because something is broken.
(14:59):
That's how home services should work anyway. We shouldn't be
going into people's houses and trying to find things that
that that could be replaced or repaired without real any
necessary need. And these folks did that well. Last month
they had their largest month. They broke over two million
dollars in revenue.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Nineteen nine percent of their clients nineteen nine percent of
their clients were club members.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
There's nobody else that's doing that in America to day
that I have heard.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
No, I haven't heard that. I mean most people are
turned I mean, like you said, they're turned off by
club things or membership because they're like they're going to
be upsold something else or whatever.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
It's Yeah, come here so that I can take advantage
of you. Oh and by the way, when we go
to do your maintenance, you're the first person that we're
going to take advantage of and change the times on
and disrespect your time and disrespect the fact that you
had to go to work, and we're going to change
the appointments and all this other stuff. When we recognizes
that we're removing friction for the customer, which removes friction
(16:03):
for the employee. And now what happens. There's a couple
of things that's happened, Dave, and you know this instinctively. One,
the customers are going to be more complied compelled to
buy to the salespeople whoever's selling, it feels like they're
telling the truth and they're not betraying themselves.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Membership goes through the roof and retains through the roof,
and the customers don't go shopping anymore. They've already mentally
checked out of the shopping game. They have a guy.
Now now it's our job to maintain that reputation and
that respect and protect and defend that. What does that
do accelerate growth? Because the flywheel is now moving with
(16:45):
a whole bunch of already people who have stuck up
their hand and identified themselves as people who want to buy.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think that's great. I mean, being forward like this,
helping them get in a place. As you talk through
that and they're growing, that's awesome. I mean, their their
revenues coming up. But what I found and I'd love
to speak of this Ryan over time, you said, and
it's not like one it's a one time thing. Because
you said, like, hey, sometimes we get silos, and I
think particularly when you get the salespeople versus the warehouse
(17:15):
versus the ops, you know, they start to separate again
and then now it's be against you. It's like, hey,
you know you're selling more. Now it's putting more pressure
on us vice versa. Talk about your insights where you've
seen this kind of breakdown tribes.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Well, well, you get bad decisions from from people who
have their their motivations, and motivations are traditionally coming from
one what the leadership will tolerate in an in an organization,
but also what they're willing to ask for out of organize.
(17:52):
You know, the departmental organizations. They want to have sales,
you know, produce these results no matter what rights it is,
come hell or high water, you're going to do this
and if you don't, then your your job is at risk.
Well that's that's a real challenge that that motivates the salesperson,
(18:13):
to say, sales manager, sales leadership to do things and
act a certain way. They're willing to do things that
are more survival based right, more hunting, more killing to
get the job done, despite the fact that once you've
killed off you know your food supply, you've got no
food left. Right, instead of having an organization built on
(18:36):
farming and agriculture thinking, they're building it off off of
a single food source of eat and kill, which is
a cradle to grave, instead of a life cycle renewable
strategy that comes with a different set of metrics that
doesn't It's not as sexy, it's not as fast moving,
it's not as high revenue as as other companies who
(18:57):
are exploiting people. But that's short term thinking that only
lasts a certain period of time, and that comes from shareholders,
regardless of the structure of those shareholders.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Some more.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Insistent than others that you either live up to your
expectation or you disappear because we're growing a monster to
sell it quickly before all of that that recourse comes
back and haunts us. We need to have this thing gone.
Not a great strategy for a long term business like
Essential Home Services.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, But I mean, and I think I mean, you
bring up a good point, Ryan, And I've had a
number of folks on here that buy firms, and there's
you know, private equity, there's things that are drivers.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But if you're the business owner.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
You've got you've got that direct control or that you're
that team and the forum what you're saying, I think
it's important to think about the long term. Yeah, there's
all the things we can do to kind of game
the system, if you will. But I think, like you said,
I really like how you said it, like people are
doing things if they really are in a place of fear, worry, anxiety,
(20:12):
then they're going to do things that are like you said,
they're short term decisions, not in the best and they're
they're like they're trying to do that, but actually it's
even in their own best interests long term, it doesn't work.
It's it's just but you're you're bringing up this point
of like how can we change that? And I guess
you know, getting to the place of again living out
values and instead of being like, hey, these are short
(20:34):
sighted ones, let's think through this a little bit more
and if we do this overall, you just gave a
great example in this the business with the home services
is that we're going to create a greater like legacy
that all when I think that's part of it Ryan,
that I hear when I work with like, how do
we all win together create that it's not like it's
(20:56):
me against you or if to lose kind of a thing, right,
And that's right in business, we don't want our clients,
our customers to ever feel like that, for sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
But look in a lot of industries do that. They
celebrate the guy who you know, drove a business from
nothing to sixteen million dollars and sold it for six
to ten times ibit and and they're they're celebrated as
these geniuses. That's not success, that's that's just you gaming
the system. You got in and out, you got your money,
(21:26):
and you went on. Who didn't win? The employees didn't win,
They didn't get a bunch of money. Right, maybe a
very small select few did.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Who didn't get the win? The customers, the ones who
got taken advantage of, the ones who paid too much,
the ones who are struggling to make ends meet as
it is. And now they're they're they're they're pressed even further.
Who doesn't win is the majority for the sake of
the minority, And that one person who did this thing
(21:55):
is the celebrated soul. They don't impress me. The people
who've impressed me over the years are the guys who
went at this for ten, fifteen, twenty years, who grounded
out and grew it and did what was right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
They certainly sold, they certainly made lots of money, They
certainly did all of the things that needed to be
done to to be a successful business. But they also
respected those around them, including themselves. Most of these folks
they feel dirty afterwards. Right, there's like two years afterwards
(22:32):
they look back and go one of the worst things
I ever did because I had to move out of
my community because their reputation is so bad. They can't
look at their friends at church, and they can't look
at their friends in the grocery store, and their employees
all hate them and they're despised. Right, that's not a
great You didn't. If that's what you define as a win,
(22:53):
then congratulations. I'm not interested.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, I know, no.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Right, So to your point, I would say, somebody that
wants to be different, like I said Ryan, that we're targeting,
you know, folks that we want to help on this
podcast are those that don't want to do that. They
want it, but there, they are stuck. They're like, I
want to do it. I want to do a better
job at communicating messaging. Sometimes they just need somebody like
you Ryan come and give them a different perspective and
understanding of like, how can we do this again? Like
(23:18):
I said, in a holistic way, live our value in
a in with integrity, right and yeah, and having persuasion
and influence in a in a positive way, in a
way that is not manipulative. Is in a way for
a short term game. But you know, we see this.
I see this often on you know, people that are.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Trying to get on or Amazon. They're trying to like
influence and they're trying to sell things.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And I mean and they're just trying to make a
quick buck if you will, and then not.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
There's not a long term strategy, I guess.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Absolutely, absolutely, And there is short term and long term goals.
Nothing wrong with those things. It's nothing wrong to go
after those goals and chase them. There's nothing wrong with persuasion,
there's nothing wrong with selling, there's nothing wrong with closing
a deal, there's nothing wrong with making profit. All of
these things are virtuous things. In fact, I think the
highest level of service is to make the sale, not
(24:10):
lose the sale. If there's an ethical sale there to
be made. It really does boil down to what are
we actually doing this for? And this is exactly why
a company can stand out for a short term. Getting
attention is easy. Pretty much any idiot can get attention.
Holding interest is really hard. And ultimately I see that
(24:34):
most of these companies have a somewhere between an eighteen
month and a three year four years if they'll at
the longest life cycle, if they're operating within nothing but
short term framework, that they also have to pay out
the butt to get there. Because they're chasing the today customer,
They're not chasing the tomorrow customer. They're not recruiting for
(24:57):
the same either. All of the same truths that we
have about customers are the exact same truths about people,
about ourselves, about our employees, about our wives and husbands
and kids and neighbors. The same motivations play no matter
(25:18):
where you are, and it really boils down to far
more a world of duality than it does. You know,
these these vast archetypes that we've constructed in our heads
to make it more complicated than it needs to be.
We're either surviving or where we're thriving, and we have
to meet people where they're at. The relational business happens
(25:39):
in thriving mode, the surviving business happens in the transactional
business happens in survival mode. This is your employee who
wants more money, right, or wants more time with their family,
or wants less less stress or exhaustion coming out of
their job each day. They want energy at the end
of the day. They don't want burnout. And our essential
(26:04):
service providers, our plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, our nurses, our doctors,
they're all run ragged to the limits of burnout and beyond.
And that is a part of the friction that we
have to pay attention to. And ultimately, people are going
(26:26):
to be a lot more bought in for the bigger
play than they are for the short term buck if
they see that they're moving in the right direction and
serving people at the highest level, which is precisely what
this business is meant to do. It's an essential service.
It's there to protect people, right absolutely.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
No.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that, Ryan, So I mean, as you described
that to me, it sounds like if you're living that out,
moving in that direction. That's an ideal person that can
work with you, Ryan of like hey, come to you,
walk me through a little bit of like okay, where
you find like the business owner the company is in
a position like ascribe to me a little bit like
what is an idea? Like personally, but they were they're
(27:05):
going to really benefit Brian from leveraging your expert somebody
like you, Brian that can they take them then an excellence?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
What what what are the characteristics that you see.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
The characteristics I see consistently, David. These are people who
already have done an exceptional job at growing their businesses
and gotten so far and then hit a ceiling. They're
bumping their heads up against this natural demand ceiling, and
and they don't know what to do next. They've tried
it all and nothing's worked, and they're they're they're kind
of spinning their wheels in the mud and trying to
(27:37):
figure out how to get out of the rud. This
comes traditionally with with a bit of humility, and it's
not because we're looking for for soft people.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We're not.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
We're looking for strong people, looking for solutions from people
who know what they're talking about and are going to
do something differently than what they classically hear everywhere else
about TRANSACTIONALSS and offers and promos and discounts and digital
this and digital that, and and frankly radio this and
billboard that and all the other silly things that you
(28:09):
can do. None of that stuff matters without one solid,
stable foundation of operations, without happy customers already they're doing
the right things, and with a solid reputation that we
can go from a customer liking them and knowing them
to loving them right, attaching emotion to the brand to
(28:29):
shift them to the next level. Well, it doesn't It
doesn't work if you're awful, right, So if you're right, So.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What we're looking.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I don't care how much money you may. I don't
care how big you are or how small you are.
I care that you're a good person, and then that
you're trying hard and moving forward. We know that a
six million dollar operator has no clue how to run
a twenty million dollar operation. They'll figure it out if
they're a good person, right, right, And we're going to
help them, and other people are going to help them
that we know that we can point them towards and
(29:00):
say these people always help these people figure that thing out.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
So the support's there, right, It's it's really about recognizing
that you don't know what you don't know. And gosh,
it would be awfully nice if I realized that thing
that's in my blind spot is something that some old
guy who calls himself a wizard knows what the heck
is it is.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It's going to call it out right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well, and you know, we're going to
make sure that if everybody's listening here or you're watching
us on YouTube, wherever the heath might be, we're gonna
make sure that you guys are able to connect with
Ryan them linked links in there. But I think it's
really important Ryan, because I see I get them every
day almost where I'm getting pitched something and tell me
about my business and how they can help me my business.
(29:44):
But they haven't had any relationship, right, they haven't talked
about anything about what's going on, what's your current strategy,
what's working, what's not working, where you're hitting the wall,
where's your blind spot. It's just like if it's like
they've got a hammer and everything is a nail, so
they're like I'm hit everything, right, I'm like I can't
believe people are still doing.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
That is the biggest That is the biggest mistake that
is perpetuated in the marketing industry is that ninety nine
percent of marketing companies are not marketing companies as much
as they are channel salespeople. They're they're trying to sell
you what they do for production.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
We're not that.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
We'd actually can't don't even sell you what we produce you.
You pay us a consulting fee and then we go
and you know, negotiate your mass media for you if
that's what you're using, and and we write your creatives
for you. But that's like you don't if we write
more ads, we don't get paid more. We only get
paid more if you grow. So the fundamental shift of
(30:51):
we don't have anything to sell you when we're one
hundred percent media agnostic immediately puts us in a different
world and role than a company that's sellslling you pay
per click or se O or something, where they they
are dependent on that sale and and the and the
output of that. The production houses of the world, some
of them fantastic and some of them kind of not great.
(31:15):
But everyone who's who's you know, run through a digital marketer.
Course online has figures that they're a digital marketer and
can and can save your world and change your life,
and a very small group of people can actually do that.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Right well, And we started out the beginning of the podcast,
you're you know, talking about your own journey with your
influence of Ray and how he helped you and getting mentors.
I have the same thing as mentors in a long play,
and so you That's why I want to folks to
listen here to Ryan today of like, Okay, here's another
guy that I can trust that I at least you
(31:49):
have a conversation and see that he's doing the work
living from preaching and sharing if you will, in the
world and makes a big difference. I think, like you said, right,
there's a lot of people out there that they think
they're doing and I just want to hopefully if you're
that person, you know, we're trying to call.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
You up in a good way.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
If you happen to be on I don't think they
listened to this podcast, but if you happen to be
listen and learn that you can, you know, look for
the relationship. I like what you said, Ryan, This is
why I said relationship over opportunity, build a relationship. Who
are you first, and then the opportunities will come. But
you know, we all do get stuck along the way
and wherever are you at in your journey? Ryan, You're saying, here, look,
(32:30):
we can give you a different perspective. And I like
how you said we're agnostic. I'm the same thing. I
have a lot of tools in the toolbox. I'm like,
what's I got to hear where you're at, what is
working and what isn't working? Or people's side You're you're saying, Hey,
let me look at wherever the market is and the
pole they're targeting and whatever what is I don't know.
We have to find out where are the people at,
what are they what are they responding to you?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Right? Ryan? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And most of them have a toolbox of the channels
ASL and and and basically everything is a is a
variant of a of a hammer. Where we're we're looking
at everything and sometimes the hammer is the right thing
to use, and sometimes it's a pipe ranch or a
screwdriver or a welding torch. We we don't know until
we figure that out. But it's it's it's the difference
(33:13):
between rudimentary architecture and craftsmanship, and and that makes all
the difference in the world because there's nothing more powerful
in this world than words.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Wow. Yeah, that's well said. Ryan. I know we're getting
an end of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We can definitely go further because there's a lot of
stuff we're getting into here, but I think I just
that last statement you said, the words that we use
are very powerful. They can do great positive things. You
can also do the things that are very damaging and
very undermine our influence. And so as we're wrapping up, Bran,
I want to give you an opportunity to share with
(33:49):
our listeners. And I've like covered a lot of different things,
but just maybe a key thing that they can reflect on,
think about, take action on on themselves, to evaluate where
they're at in their culture, in their branding, or wherever
you want to bring up.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Ryan, We'll make sure you guys can and you know,
follow up link in to Ryan.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
We're going to put all of those links in the notes,
but just some you know, last thoughts, some things you
want to impart to our listeners.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Yeah, you know what all of this starts. For leaders
and and senior executives that are listening to this and
CEOs and whatnot. It all starts with ourselves. It all
starts with our internal mindsets, and very often we're the
first ones to forget that we're people too. It's like
that old movie Soilent Green where people are being made
(34:35):
into crackers. Yeah, yeah, it's made of people. He's green.
And don't forget that you you're a person too, and
that your mindset matters because it's your commander's intent that's
leading this. It's what you tolerate and don't tolerate. And
when you start to see the things that are a
bit in your blind spot and you go, oh, that
(34:58):
caused a ripple of effect of slowing this flywheel down.
I smooth that out. I get the rust off that flywheel.
I grease that wheel. I get the bearings right in
this wheel. All the people is what I envisioned these
bearings to be. Then you have the right fits to
move forward smoothly and faster, build the inertia and reduce
the cost the friction that goes along with that. You
(35:21):
want to accelerate growth, you want to increase your wealth,
you want to eventually exit your business. All at the
optimal scenario You've got to do something about that, not
just hope something might happen.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yes, yes, and Ryan's one that can help you along
the journey. Ryan, I just want to say thanks for
coming on the podcast today and sharing a little bit
of wisdom and just time with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Really appreciate having you today.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
I appreciate being asked and having the opportunity to share.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Absolutely Well, y'all, thanks for listening in here as we're
wrapping up the podcast. You know that brill you'd love
to have you share it like it, subscribe all good stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Any comments to leave, We'll make sure that Ryan gets them.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Please leave them here wherever you're listening to the podcast
and a favorite podcast platform, YouTube or following us on LinkedIn,
and we look forward to having you back again at
the next time of our weekly podcast Business Roundtable. Till
then be well, Thanks everybody for listening.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Take care,
Hold on, didn't didn't loop it? Let me try again.
Let me you should add that in there. Make sure
my little media is that is.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh, that's why I didn't put that in there.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to the Business round Table podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr Steward your business. We have another great guest
here this week.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Shoot, I'm super excited to have Ryan on here. You're
going to get a totally different respective on some things
we haven't talked. We've talked about marketing and branding, but
I think you're gonna get a hold from perspective here today.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Welcome to the podcast. Ryan.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Hey, David, thank you so much for having me. I'm
grateful to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, I know, super super happy to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Because when we were talking Ryan, were preparing for this
podcast about a month ago, and we were talking about
some of the issues that you see and we're getting
into the meat of it today from you know, ads
and marketing and branding, and what I just thought was, Yeah,
this is a unique perspective in a way that maybe
I haven't heard the same way, and I'm excited you
(01:29):
to share that. But before we get into that, I
liked folks to learn a little bit more about you
and what brought you Ryan to Wizard of Ads and
as a partner and leading this company, because I think
I like having what I call the origin story, what
led you to and why do you do what you do?
And we're going to get into the weeds of it today.
So Ryan, if you don't mind, just take us back
(01:49):
a little bit about your journey as a business owner.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Absolutely, well look at it. I'm super blessed to be
able to run an eight figure agency today with the
Wizard of Ads helping companies grow other businesses. I'm a
big proponent of marketing is far too important to be
left to a marketing department, and like to look at
things holistically, but life wasn't always that way. In twenty
fifteen is when I met Roy Williams and he's the
(02:14):
Wizard of Ads and he had a as a giant
sixteenth century Spanish tower standing on the hill in Austin, Texas,
and I went to a class of his after reading
his books and his Monday Morning Memo for twenty years,
and it was a really transformational moment for me. It
was just one of those times when I just realized
(02:34):
my life has been a grind.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It has been just an.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Absolute battle every single day, day in and day out,
living transactionally in a friction filled world. You know, I
came from the gulags of retail, where you have bad
bosses and moral behavior and everything is based on performance.
It's feasted and all of the challenges that come with
(03:00):
with you know that nature of business. And Uh, I
spent time living around despicable acts as much as I
have weaponized fear, shame and guilt. And I was I was,
I was mimicking that that behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I was.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I was a bad leader. I was a I was
a deadly manager. I was very proficient at what I did.
I got results, but I got results with a stick,
not a carrot. And ultimately, when I got to meet Roy, uh,
the perspective of brand Yeah is entrenched in relational thinking,
(03:44):
which is entrenched in in thriving nature and and mindset.
And and it's really had me start reflecting on you know,
this idea of of what I was doing. I was
getting results transactionally, but it was constantly changing, it was
constantly guarding the vault. It was felt like I was
(04:08):
being productive and successful in the aggregate, but really to
look back now fifteen years gosh, ten years later, since
twenty fifteen, it's dramatic how much my life has changed.
To recognize the things that cause friction in a business
(04:31):
with customers, with co workers, frankly, with ourselves as individuals
looking inward. And while I by no means have perfected it,
I needed to do this to train myself as much
as I needed to recognize that this is the thing
that got in a lot of people's way and can
(04:51):
improve their lives as leaders.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Well, I think that's why I want you to share
a little bit about that, Ryan, because as you know too,
you know, I lead from what I live, and I
that's what I want people to hear, like, Ryan, you're
living this out. This isn't just like oh I just
came up with this. I I've been going through this
process and and I really appreciate that. And that's what
I love to have voices like yours on the podcast
(05:14):
to share to those as like, Okay, this is not
just you know, Ran didn't just do this overnight. This
has been something he's been working on for years. And
that's where you're going to be able to lean in
and get some great insights from Ryan today, like how
can you shift Like you said, just I think people
maybe take too loosely at times marketing and how we
do this and how we get the messages I know
(05:34):
I have, And so having somebody like you Ryan give
a different perspective and challenge us how we show up
in our companies and how we're leading and getting that
message is really important. So yeah, you know, and we're
going to dive into that because you know you're going
to talk. I know, and I've had some other folks
in sales, not so much in marketing but recently on sales,
(05:56):
but same kind of thing. You know, how we manipulate
that can be manipulative and use these tactics that are
not really you know, maybe they might be able to
get some results in the short term, but this is
not a legacy.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
They go up live and I see so much today
and it's like, man, how can we do it better?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
How can we have greater influence right and and and
make something that's really meaningful? And I think that's what
you've been working on again, that's why we have some
wizard of ads and just in your background, and I
really liked, like when I'm led with this episode of
like you talked about friction, we talked a lot about
that and and where there's friction and meaning that things
(06:35):
should be able to flow better, and how can we
do that, how can we make it to that from
my persecutive I'm looking at people, you're looking at the
same thing with people, But how we're in creating the
messaging the ads, right, And I'm excited for you to
share a little bit more about, you know, how do
we come up with a strategy in branding versus just
(06:58):
kind of throwing things at the wall Ryan and just
trying to like, oh, what's the newest, the greatest thing? Uh,
you know, and so maybe just talk with us about
you know where you had you mentioned a little bit
about this this turning point where you we talked about
like you recognize the friction, and now we're like, no,
I'm moving, I'm not along of the I want to
start thinking more forward thinking and how we're going to
(07:20):
do this, and I want to reduce the friction. I
don't want to be the bottle that talk to us
a little bit about how can we start to help
in in marketing and branding, you know, reduce the friction.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, that's it's it's think of it this way, maybe
for the visual folks in the in the room. Is
is removing friction from the flywheel. If if we think
of the physics of friction and the physics of a
flywheel and how we want to get it to go
faster and build momentum and inertia. We have to take
the rust off the flywheel. We have to make sure
(07:53):
that the parts aren't in they're not causing friction, but
they might be intention with each other. So tension is important,
but friction is not good.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's a great Yeah, that's a great analogy. Right, Yeah,
you need both. You need you need that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You have to have some tension in there with the
Flywell won't.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Work right, it'll be sloppy and messy and it won't
it won't get that speed up. And what we're talking
about here is the speed is your profitability, right, how
much can you make more money? And that's your flywheel
going faster and accelerating your money mechanism. The resistance, the friction,
that's all the expense to your business, both in money, effort,
(08:36):
and time because those resources are a drag. If you
put too much weight in the system, What I mean
by that is if you have too many employees, or
too many systems, or too many get out of jail
free cards what we call the weasel words at Wizard
of Ads, Right, you're creating friction that doesn't need to
be there. Instead, you need to create an operation that
(08:58):
eliminates as many of those get out of jail free
cards as you can for both of these lies and
and and the customers.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right, No, absolutely, Ryan, I mean I think there is
breaking that down and then coming up with a strategy.
How do we rather than and here sometimes we make
the mistake, like you said, of maybe throwing things that
maybe making it more complicated.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
We're like, hey, that's not the right answer.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Let's like take the slow it down a little bit,
break it down, and I think you know, like thinking
forward if you will, So how would you know what
would when we're looking at When you say this to Ryan,
to me, I hear like, oh, I like the word holistic.
Are we looking at this thing holistic versus just my
little part here, my little part there?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
What does that actually mean? Ryan? To you and working
with clients.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, you know, the one of the biggest things to
recognize in businesses is that you know, for years, we've
created silos, and that typically comes from corporate strategy, and
that's mainly because you have a bunch of people who
are absolutely terrified to lose their job and doing everything
they can to protect it, so they make stupid decisions
(10:06):
for the benefit of themselves under the guise of the
greater good. What you're actually getting is watered down nonsense
nine times out of ten. And what we're really looking
to solve here is how do we make it great
on all fronts well when it comes to the culture
and experience standpoint. This is something that my partner, Ray
(10:27):
Segren taught me. One of the main reasons why I've
become a Wizard of AD's partner was because of Ray,
and he talks about your brand are the stories that
we tell to the world to let them know what
you stand forward and stand against. And it's the culture
that drives the experience that the customer is going to have.
(10:49):
So it's crucial that our brand is in alignment with
our culture. Our culture is in alignment with our brand,
and that indeed the culture is delivering on the experience.
And where I took it from there was the thing
we need to focus on then first, the center of
our strategy needs to start with our culture. And the
(11:09):
first person to do that is the person whose intentions matter, right,
the leader, the person who chose to start this thing
and run it a certain way.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, and I, as you know, Ryan, I work with
companies and their teams, and what I found is oftentimes
companies miss the mark by not different really defining culture clearly.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Their values are not clear. And this cascades in a
lot of different ways.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean, as an example, I had had insurance broker
on the podcast, Ryan, and he's like, I'm trying to
go get you insurance and you can't explain to me
all of the things that you do.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
What do you essentially Standford?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Give me your story narrative because I'm trying to go
to bad for you, but you can't explain this to me.
You can't explain this to me. How are your team
for your customers eperiencing right? Like you said, the external
experience or internal experience?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:04):
You know what, It's funny you say that because it
really does boil down to some really astoundingly obvious truths
when you say them out loud and they're not true
or obvious until you just kind of say that the
obvious things and that's the human beings. The brain is
designed to cope. It is not designed to thrive in
(12:25):
the think complex it is it is. It takes extra
effort to do those things. As leaders, our job is
to create an environment to make it astoundingly easy for
people to do their jobs by doing the hard work
for them upfront, from curating your inventory and pricing, to
(12:45):
calculating your compensation package, to leaning into internal motivators versus
external motivators, to heck, even how we measure people right
and holding them accountable to the things they can control,
not the things they can't right.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely, So can you give me an example, I mean,
like a brand or one that you've worked with, Ryan
of like where they've lived this out, they've got that
alignment of you know, the internal alignment that leads to
that external residence where you've work with somebody that got
that right.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, there's you know, there's a company in the Carolinas
that is it has been doing a ton of work
around making things easier for their salespeople so that they
can make it easier for their customers. One of the
things that I worked on with them about four months
ago when we were at our annual retreat. Was the
(13:43):
club membership that they have now, A club membership in
a home service space. HVAC and Plumbing soon to be
Electrical is a company that wants to be able to
deliver perks and services to make sure that the customer's
equipment stays maintained for the long term. Now, some people
use that to weaponize against customers, to make it a
(14:04):
sales opportunity every time they show up, and other companies
make it a true perk and really lean into taking
care of club members before they take care of of
randos in the canoe.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So, at the end of the day, we want new
customers to step into our family, but not everyone's going
to be part of our membership, and that's okay. We're
looking for the people who want to do business the
way we do business. So what can we do to
make it so astoundingly easy for the customer to go, oh,
I want to be a part of that. Yeah, it
(14:38):
starts with elevating the perks, minimizing the cost of the membership,
making it just so astoundingly obvious that it's a no
brainer to to have advantage of this thing and then
to be ultra generous well before it pays off until
such time as they need something because something is broken.
(14:59):
That's how home services should work anyway. We shouldn't be
going into people's houses and trying to find things that
that that could be replaced or repaired without real any
necessary need. And these folks did that well. Last month
they had their largest month. They broke over two million
dollars in revenue.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Nineteen nine percent of their clients nineteen nine percent of
their clients were club members.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
There's nobody else that's doing that in America to day
that I have heard.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
No, I haven't heard that. I mean most people are
turned I mean, like you said, they're turned off by
club things or membership because they're like they're going to
be upsold something else or whatever.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
It's Yeah, come here so that I can take advantage
of you. Oh and by the way, when we go
to do your maintenance, you're the first person that we're
going to take advantage of and change the times on
and disrespect your time and disrespect the fact that you
had to go to work, and we're going to change
the appointments and all this other stuff. When we recognizes
that we're removing friction for the customer, which removes friction
(16:03):
for the employee. And now what happens. There's a couple
of things that's happened, Dave, and you know this instinctively. One,
the customers are going to be more complied compelled to
buy to the salespeople whoever's selling, it feels like they're
telling the truth and they're not betraying themselves.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Membership goes through the roof and retains through the roof,
and the customers don't go shopping anymore. They've already mentally
checked out of the shopping game. They have a guy.
Now now it's our job to maintain that reputation and
that respect and protect and defend that. What does that
do accelerate growth? Because the flywheel is now moving with
(16:45):
a whole bunch of already people who have stuck up
their hand and identified themselves as people who want to buy.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think that's great. I mean, being forward like this,
helping them get in a place. As you talk through
that and they're growing, that's awesome. I mean, their their
revenues coming up. But what I found and I'd love
to speak of this Ryan over time, you said, and
it's not like one it's a one time thing. Because
you said, like, hey, sometimes we get silos, and I
think particularly when you get the salespeople versus the warehouse
(17:15):
versus the ops, you know, they start to separate again
and then now it's be against you. It's like, hey,
you know you're selling more. Now it's putting more pressure
on us vice versa. Talk about your insights where you've
seen this kind of breakdown tribes.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Well, well, you get bad decisions from from people who
have their their motivations, and motivations are traditionally coming from
one what the leadership will tolerate in an in an organization,
but also what they're willing to ask for out of organize.
(17:52):
You know, the departmental organizations. They want to have sales,
you know, produce these results no matter what rights it is,
come hell or high water, you're going to do this
and if you don't, then your your job is at risk.
Well that's that's a real challenge that that motivates the salesperson,
(18:13):
to say, sales manager, sales leadership to do things and
act a certain way. They're willing to do things that
are more survival based right, more hunting, more killing to
get the job done, despite the fact that once you've
killed off you know your food supply, you've got no
food left. Right, instead of having an organization built on
(18:36):
farming and agriculture thinking, they're building it off off of
a single food source of eat and kill, which is
a cradle to grave, instead of a life cycle renewable
strategy that comes with a different set of metrics that
doesn't It's not as sexy, it's not as fast moving,
it's not as high revenue as as other companies who
(18:57):
are exploiting people. But that's short term thinking that only
lasts a certain period of time, and that comes from shareholders,
regardless of the structure of those shareholders.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Some more.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Insistent than others that you either live up to your
expectation or you disappear because we're growing a monster to
sell it quickly before all of that that recourse comes
back and haunts us. We need to have this thing gone.
Not a great strategy for a long term business like
Essential Home Services.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, But I mean, and I think I mean, you
bring up a good point, Ryan, And I've had a
number of folks on here that buy firms, and there's
you know, private equity, there's things that are drivers.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But if you're the business owner.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
You've got you've got that direct control or that you're
that team and the forum what you're saying, I think
it's important to think about the long term. Yeah, there's
all the things we can do to kind of game
the system, if you will. But I think, like you said,
I really like how you said it, like people are
doing things if they really are in a place of fear, worry, anxiety,
(20:12):
then they're going to do things that are like you said,
they're short term decisions, not in the best and they're
they're like they're trying to do that, but actually it's
even in their own best interests long term, it doesn't work.
It's it's just but you're you're bringing up this point
of like how can we change that? And I guess
you know, getting to the place of again living out
values and instead of being like, hey, these are short
(20:34):
sighted ones, let's think through this a little bit more
and if we do this overall, you just gave a
great example in this the business with the home services
is that we're going to create a greater like legacy
that all when I think that's part of it Ryan,
that I hear when I work with like, how do
we all win together create that it's not like it's
(20:56):
me against you or if to lose kind of a thing, right,
And that's right in business, we don't want our clients,
our customers to ever feel like that, for sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
But look in a lot of industries do that. They
celebrate the guy who you know, drove a business from
nothing to sixteen million dollars and sold it for six
to ten times ibit and and they're they're celebrated as
these geniuses. That's not success, that's that's just you gaming
the system. You got in and out, you got your money,
(21:26):
and you went on. Who didn't win? The employees didn't win,
They didn't get a bunch of money. Right, maybe a
very small select few did.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Who didn't get the win? The customers, the ones who
got taken advantage of, the ones who paid too much,
the ones who are struggling to make ends meet as
it is. And now they're they're they're they're pressed even further.
Who doesn't win is the majority for the sake of
the minority, And that one person who did this thing
(21:55):
is the celebrated soul. They don't impress me. The people
who've impressed me over the years are the guys who
went at this for ten, fifteen, twenty years, who grounded
out and grew it and did what was right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
They certainly sold, they certainly made lots of money, They
certainly did all of the things that needed to be
done to to be a successful business. But they also
respected those around them, including themselves. Most of these folks
they feel dirty afterwards. Right, there's like two years afterwards
(22:32):
they look back and go one of the worst things
I ever did because I had to move out of
my community because their reputation is so bad. They can't
look at their friends at church, and they can't look
at their friends in the grocery store, and their employees
all hate them and they're despised. Right, that's not a
great You didn't. If that's what you define as a win,
(22:53):
then congratulations. I'm not interested.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, I know, no.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Right, So to your point, I would say, somebody that
wants to be different, like I said Ryan, that we're targeting,
you know, folks that we want to help on this
podcast are those that don't want to do that. They
want it, but there, they are stuck. They're like, I
want to do it. I want to do a better
job at communicating messaging. Sometimes they just need somebody like
you Ryan come and give them a different perspective and
understanding of like, how can we do this again? Like
(23:18):
I said, in a holistic way, live our value in
a in with integrity, right and yeah, and having persuasion
and influence in a in a positive way, in a
way that is not manipulative. Is in a way for
a short term game. But you know, we see this.
I see this often on you know, people that are.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Trying to get on or Amazon. They're trying to like
influence and they're trying to sell things.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And I mean and they're just trying to make a
quick buck if you will, and then not.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
There's not a long term strategy, I guess.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Absolutely, absolutely, And there is short term and long term goals.
Nothing wrong with those things. It's nothing wrong to go
after those goals and chase them. There's nothing wrong with persuasion,
there's nothing wrong with selling, there's nothing wrong with closing
a deal, there's nothing wrong with making profit. All of
these things are virtuous things. In fact, I think the
highest level of service is to make the sale, not
(24:10):
lose the sale. If there's an ethical sale there to
be made. It really does boil down to what are
we actually doing this for? And this is exactly why
a company can stand out for a short term. Getting
attention is easy. Pretty much any idiot can get attention.
Holding interest is really hard. And ultimately I see that
(24:34):
most of these companies have a somewhere between an eighteen
month and a three year four years if they'll at
the longest life cycle, if they're operating within nothing but
short term framework, that they also have to pay out
the butt to get there. Because they're chasing the today customer,
They're not chasing the tomorrow customer. They're not recruiting for
(24:57):
the same either. All of the same truths that we
have about customers are the exact same truths about people,
about ourselves, about our employees, about our wives and husbands
and kids and neighbors. The same motivations play no matter
(25:18):
where you are, and it really boils down to far
more a world of duality than it does. You know,
these these vast archetypes that we've constructed in our heads
to make it more complicated than it needs to be.
We're either surviving or where we're thriving, and we have
to meet people where they're at. The relational business happens
(25:39):
in thriving mode, the surviving business happens in the transactional
business happens in survival mode. This is your employee who
wants more money, right, or wants more time with their family,
or wants less less stress or exhaustion coming out of
their job each day. They want energy at the end
of the day. They don't want burnout. And our essential
(26:04):
service providers, our plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, our nurses, our doctors,
they're all run ragged to the limits of burnout and beyond.
And that is a part of the friction that we
have to pay attention to. And ultimately, people are going
(26:26):
to be a lot more bought in for the bigger
play than they are for the short term buck if
they see that they're moving in the right direction and
serving people at the highest level, which is precisely what
this business is meant to do. It's an essential service.
It's there to protect people, right absolutely.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
No.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that, Ryan, So I mean, as you described
that to me, it sounds like if you're living that out,
moving in that direction. That's an ideal person that can
work with you, Ryan of like hey, come to you,
walk me through a little bit of like okay, where
you find like the business owner the company is in
a position like ascribe to me a little bit like
what is an idea? Like personally, but they were they're
(27:05):
going to really benefit Brian from leveraging your expert somebody
like you, Brian that can they take them then an excellence?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
What what what are the characteristics that you see.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
The characteristics I see consistently, David. These are people who
already have done an exceptional job at growing their businesses
and gotten so far and then hit a ceiling. They're
bumping their heads up against this natural demand ceiling, and
and they don't know what to do next. They've tried
it all and nothing's worked, and they're they're they're kind
of spinning their wheels in the mud and trying to
(27:37):
figure out how to get out of the rud. This
comes traditionally with with a bit of humility, and it's
not because we're looking for for soft people.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We're not.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
We're looking for strong people, looking for solutions from people
who know what they're talking about and are going to
do something differently than what they classically hear everywhere else
about TRANSACTIONALSS and offers and promos and discounts and digital
this and digital that, and and frankly radio this and
billboard that and all the other silly things that you
(28:09):
can do. None of that stuff matters without one solid,
stable foundation of operations, without happy customers already they're doing
the right things, and with a solid reputation that we
can go from a customer liking them and knowing them
to loving them right, attaching emotion to the brand to
(28:29):
shift them to the next level. Well, it doesn't It
doesn't work if you're awful, right, So if you're right, So.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What we're looking.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I don't care how much money you may. I don't
care how big you are or how small you are.
I care that you're a good person, and then that
you're trying hard and moving forward. We know that a
six million dollar operator has no clue how to run
a twenty million dollar operation. They'll figure it out if
they're a good person, right, right, And we're going to
help them, and other people are going to help them
that we know that we can point them towards and
(29:00):
say these people always help these people figure that thing out.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
So the support's there, right, It's it's really about recognizing
that you don't know what you don't know. And gosh,
it would be awfully nice if I realized that thing
that's in my blind spot is something that some old
guy who calls himself a wizard knows what the heck
is it is.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It's going to call it out right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well, and you know, we're going to
make sure that if everybody's listening here or you're watching
us on YouTube, wherever the heath might be, we're gonna
make sure that you guys are able to connect with
Ryan them linked links in there. But I think it's
really important Ryan, because I see I get them every
day almost where I'm getting pitched something and tell me
about my business and how they can help me my business.
(29:44):
But they haven't had any relationship, right, they haven't talked
about anything about what's going on, what's your current strategy,
what's working, what's not working, where you're hitting the wall,
where's your blind spot. It's just like if it's like
they've got a hammer and everything is a nail, so
they're like I'm hit everything, right, I'm like I can't
believe people are still doing.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
That is the biggest That is the biggest mistake that
is perpetuated in the marketing industry is that ninety nine
percent of marketing companies are not marketing companies as much
as they are channel salespeople. They're they're trying to sell
you what they do for production.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
We're not that.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
We'd actually can't don't even sell you what we produce you.
You pay us a consulting fee and then we go
and you know, negotiate your mass media for you if
that's what you're using, and and we write your creatives
for you. But that's like you don't if we write
more ads, we don't get paid more. We only get
paid more if you grow. So the fundamental shift of
(30:51):
we don't have anything to sell you when we're one
hundred percent media agnostic immediately puts us in a different
world and role than a company that's sellslling you pay
per click or se O or something, where they they
are dependent on that sale and and the and the
output of that. The production houses of the world, some
of them fantastic and some of them kind of not great.
(31:15):
But everyone who's who's you know, run through a digital marketer.
Course online has figures that they're a digital marketer and
can and can save your world and change your life,
and a very small group of people can actually do that.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Right well, And we started out the beginning of the podcast,
you're you know, talking about your own journey with your
influence of Ray and how he helped you and getting mentors.
I have the same thing as mentors in a long play,
and so you That's why I want to folks to
listen here to Ryan today of like, Okay, here's another
guy that I can trust that I at least you
(31:49):
have a conversation and see that he's doing the work
living from preaching and sharing if you will, in the
world and makes a big difference. I think, like you said, right,
there's a lot of people out there that they think
they're doing and I just want to hopefully if you're
that person, you know, we're trying to call.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
You up in a good way.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
If you happen to be on I don't think they
listened to this podcast, but if you happen to be
listen and learn that you can, you know, look for
the relationship. I like what you said, Ryan, This is
why I said relationship over opportunity, build a relationship. Who
are you first, and then the opportunities will come. But
you know, we all do get stuck along the way
and wherever are you at in your journey? Ryan, You're saying, here, look,
(32:30):
we can give you a different perspective. And I like
how you said we're agnostic. I'm the same thing. I
have a lot of tools in the toolbox. I'm like,
what's I got to hear where you're at, what is
working and what isn't working? Or people's side You're you're saying, Hey,
let me look at wherever the market is and the
pole they're targeting and whatever what is I don't know.
We have to find out where are the people at,
what are they what are they responding to you?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Right? Ryan? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And most of them have a toolbox of the channels
ASL and and and basically everything is a is a
variant of a of a hammer. Where we're we're looking
at everything and sometimes the hammer is the right thing
to use, and sometimes it's a pipe ranch or a
screwdriver or a welding torch. We we don't know until
we figure that out. But it's it's it's the difference
(33:13):
between rudimentary architecture and craftsmanship, and and that makes all
the difference in the world because there's nothing more powerful
in this world than words.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Wow. Yeah, that's well said. Ryan. I know we're getting
an end of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We can definitely go further because there's a lot of
stuff we're getting into here, but I think I just
that last statement you said, the words that we use
are very powerful. They can do great positive things. You
can also do the things that are very damaging and
very undermine our influence. And so as we're wrapping up, Bran,
I want to give you an opportunity to share with
(33:49):
our listeners. And I've like covered a lot of different things,
but just maybe a key thing that they can reflect on,
think about, take action on on themselves, to evaluate where
they're at in their culture, in their branding, or wherever
you want to bring up.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Ryan, We'll make sure you guys can and you know,
follow up link in to Ryan.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
We're going to put all of those links in the notes,
but just some you know, last thoughts, some things you
want to impart to our listeners.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Yeah, you know what all of this starts. For leaders
and and senior executives that are listening to this and
CEOs and whatnot. It all starts with ourselves. It all
starts with our internal mindsets, and very often we're the
first ones to forget that we're people too. It's like
that old movie Soilent Green where people are being made
(34:35):
into crackers. Yeah, yeah, it's made of people. He's green.
And don't forget that you you're a person too, and
that your mindset matters because it's your commander's intent that's
leading this. It's what you tolerate and don't tolerate. And
when you start to see the things that are a
bit in your blind spot and you go, oh, that
(34:58):
caused a ripple of effect of slowing this flywheel down.
I smooth that out. I get the rust off that flywheel.
I grease that wheel. I get the bearings right in
this wheel. All the people is what I envisioned these
bearings to be. Then you have the right fits to
move forward smoothly and faster, build the inertia and reduce
the cost the friction that goes along with that. You
(35:21):
want to accelerate growth, you want to increase your wealth,
you want to eventually exit your business. All at the
optimal scenario You've got to do something about that, not
just hope something might happen.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yes, yes, and Ryan's one that can help you along
the journey. Ryan, I just want to say thanks for
coming on the podcast today and sharing a little bit
of wisdom and just time with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Really appreciate having you today.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
I appreciate being asked and having the opportunity to share.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Absolutely Well, y'all, thanks for listening in here as we're
wrapping up the podcast. You know that brill you'd love
to have you share it like it, subscribe all good stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Any comments to leave, We'll make sure that Ryan gets them.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Please leave them here wherever you're listening to the podcast
and a favorite podcast platform, YouTube or following us on LinkedIn,
and we look forward to having you back again at
the next time of our weekly podcast Business Roundtable. Till
then be well, Thanks everybody for listening.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Take care,
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