From Burnout to Buyout: Building Boards and B Corps with Jonathan Bennett

What does it take to lead with integrity, prepare for succession, and build businesses that truly last?

In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Jonathan Bennett—executive advisor, professional mentor, and strategist—who has guided founders, CEOs, and boards through some of their toughest challenges. 

Jonathan shares his journey from senior leadership in a large hospital to founding and scaling a successful B Corp consulting firm, and later selling it through a management buyout. Today, he helps leaders create psychologically safe workplaces, build high-functioning boards, and prepare for the emotional and strategic realities of succession planning. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why boards and advisory boards are essential for growth and accountability
• How B Corps create culture, attract talent, and demonstrate business as a force for good
• The emotional journey of succession planning and ownership transitions
• Why governance and clarity build confidence for owners, employees, and buyers
• How to avoid leadership isolation and build trusted circles of accountability

If you’re a business owner, executive, or consultant, this episode will show you how to move from burnout to buyout while building a company with resilience, integrity, and impact.

Connect with Jonathan Bennett:
Website: https://clearlythen.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennettjonathan

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.

Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business

Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast once again, I'm
your host, David Carr of Stewart your Business bringing team
together to accomplish great things, and we have a brand
new guest this week, Jonathan Bennett. Jonathan, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thanks for having me David. It's great to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Absolutely now. Jonathan brings a wealth of different experience. I'd
love to have him on here because we're going to
talk about a topic we haven't talked about before. H really,
how do you go from burnout really to buy out?
And we're going to talk about boards, be corpse and
really building businesses that last. So Jonathan, I want to
say thanks for coming on because this is a topic

(01:09):
we have not tackled specifically before, and I know our listeners,
whether you're a business owner or you're helping a business grow,
we want to help you get smarter about what's working
not working your business, How do you handle boards, how
do you handle governance, and particularly be work be corp frameworks,

(01:29):
which I'm super excited about because this was a new, new,
new to me, newer to me, and I'm excited to
have you share a bit about that along your journey.
Jonathan so thank you. Before we get into the meat
of it, I love to have our guests share a
little bit more about their journey and what got you

(01:50):
to clearly then, clearly than dot com. We're gonna share
all the resources where you can connect with Jonathan. But
take us back, Jonathan, what got you as a business
owner and a leader passionate about what you do today?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, thanks so much. It's great to be here. David So.
I grew up in Australia, in Sydney, Australia. I live
in Canada now and I've lived here most of my
adult life. So if folks are trying to figure out
where's that accent from that sounds weird, that's what's going on.
And so I've had a kind of a cecuitous journey.

(02:25):
I did English in university and all I wanted to
do was write stories. And I wrote a bunch of
novels and books of poetry and a whole bunch of
stuff like that. But turns out, kids poetry doesn't pay,
and so I needed some things to support myself and
my family as the years were rolling pine. So I

(02:46):
ended up in corporate communications, healthcare, social services, and I
ended up on the senior team of a large hospital
here in Canada, and I learned a time. I sort
of described it as three free MBAs. It was, you know,
these complex, four unions, multi site, twenty four to seven operation,

(03:08):
thousands of employees, very very complex kind of work environments.
And so I just learned a ton and you know,
kind of fell over sideways. You know, we built a
new hospital. I made it through two CEOs. It was
kind of the tongue was hanging out of the mouth.
I was like, you know by the end, and I thought,
anything but this, I really need to do something different
with my life. I had two young kids at the time.

(03:31):
My eldest kid is autistic, and you know, I just
wasn't being the kind of dad that I really thought
I could and should and needed to be. So I
hung out a shingle. I thought, you know, how hard
could this management consulting thing be, you know, after what
I'd been through. And I spent the next ten years
growing a company and we served a nonprofit organization social

(03:53):
purpose organizations across the country, did a lot of planning
training of middle management, governor to training, and we became
a b corp, which I know we'll get to three
years ago, I orchestrated a management buy out with my
colleague and so she bought the firm from me, and
it continues on to do amazing things today and these
days I'm an executive advisor and a coach, an independent

(04:17):
board director, and so I helped founders and CEOs tackle
the really the hardest things in their in their business
and in their life.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, you bring a wealth of experience, Jonathan. We're so
glad to have you. That's why we have the Business
Rinding podcast because I feel like often as business owners,
because they feel kind of isolated alone, they don't know
who to trust. And here is another voice, Jonathan that
you bring a wealth of experienced background and particularly for
those that are really interested in the corps. Uh and

(04:48):
and why that matters? I think you know, you are
definitely a person that I've gotten using business helping make
some puzitive and and I think you know Bee Corp
is a way of doing that. And I'd love to
have you explain a little bit, Jonathan. You created one
and you help these nonpropits. Maybe they're not necessarily a
B corp, but talk about a little bit, walk us

(05:10):
through a little bit about what is a bee corp
for those that maybe never considered or seen it. I mean,
everyone knows a C corp. That's pretty common. But bee
corps are been around for a bit. But I think
they're getting more traction now.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, thanks, So they are getting a lot more attraction.
I think there's nine or ten thousand of them globally now.
Becoming a bee corp is it's almost like a mindset
and a way of doing your business in a different way.
The slogan used to be business as a force for
Good and I still connect with that as a way

(05:42):
to think about how to structure everything that you do
inside your business. Becoming a bee corp is like a
kind of accreditation, So you submit yourself to a very
rigorous process that can take many months, if not a
year or more, where you benchmarked against a series of
standards and if you achieve you know, the benchmark, you

(06:07):
get certified as a bee corp. And then every three
years or so you have to re certify. So it's
not something that's a one and done and you get
the seal of approval. You have to kind of commit
to it as an ongoing, uh you know, improvement based
like methodology that you're in your business. It's only for

(06:30):
private sector businesses, so not for not for profit corporations,
but but for private sector businesses and businesses of all sizes.
So like I sit on an advisory board of a
brand new Bee Corp. It's got two employees and it's
kind of, you know, just just just passed a startup.
And that's a very important part to this. Young folks

(06:52):
like that running it to their view of the world
and why they wanted to start their whole journey in
business as a Bee Corp. Other companies come to it later,
and famously there's some very largely corpse like Patagonia and
Ben and Jerry's, but there's thousands of small and mid
sized businesses that just really want to join the community.

(07:14):
They want to make sure that their supply chains, that
their clients and customers and folks that work for them
are all being treated with ethics and in a good way.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Absolutely well. To me, it sounds like there's something that
I work with lots of different generations. Jonathan, I'm sure
you're seeing this, but I think I'm coming from the
gen X generation. I'm you brother, there we go, right,
But I feel in a good way I think they're
pushed it back from youngers I would say millennials and

(07:48):
probably even more in the Gen zs. They want to say,
what is this because we have a lot more information
now than we did when we grew up, Like what
does your company stand for? What? Like you said, where
are your barrier suppliers? What is this? You're part of
something bigger, connected to this community. It's not just isolated,
and they want to feel like they're a part of something. Though.
I would see that this is an employer perspective of

(08:08):
practicing a talented two right. It's not just for your
outward clients or customers, but also the people that are
coming on a work for your company.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, it's your one hundred percent correct. It's very holistic.
So in some sectors and for some companies, it's quite
a customer focused. It's the promise, you know. The brand
promise is that we are who we say we are,
and we can prove it because we've had an external
third party authenticate the fact that we follow through and

(08:38):
follow up on the things that we say we are
and do. But the same can also be true for employees,
and you're right, increasingly younger workers coming into the workforce
and in the first sort of ten years of their career,
it's an expression of self when they've done a lot
of school, maybe they have one or two degrees, and
they are committed to being ethical and aligned and they

(09:03):
want to work somewhere that is an expression of those values.
So be corps are a way to put your money
where your mouth is, to be able to say to employees,
you should participate in our company and in our values
because we are who you are, and it's it's a
deeper connection that you can have with employees and all

(09:26):
the way I might add to becoming an employee owned organization,
and so increasingly, you know, companies become employee owned. I mean,
there's some of the highest scores that you can get
in the bee corp journey is if you're an employee
owned company and it doesn't fully employee owned, but even
partially employee owned. It allows everybody to participate and it

(09:49):
allows everybody to to just be more than just work
there that they get a stay on how the company
you know, grows and how it you know, treads in
on the earth, and how it treats people. Uh, folks
want to say in all of that.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, I mean, and I like how you said this earlier.
You're on a board or just you know, working with
a plant that too, So it doesn't doesn't It's not
like you have to be gigantic to be say I
want to be. There's probably a bit advantageous to start small,
start sooner than later.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
It's actually easier when you're smaller. I think, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
So so thinking about that. If you're not thinking about that,
you know, consider that. But I think you bring up
some good points too. Whether you're employee owned or not,
you know, how are you? And this is where it
gets into and that would go kind of back and
forth in the B COREP. But for a governance Jonathan,
how are you running this company? And I was with

(10:44):
the company for example, that kind of you know, they
had original owners and owners how to do that? Well?
You know, And so you talk a little bit about okay,
a growing business, what should of growing business considering in
you know, an advisory but maybe maybe they've never had
any kind of governance scaffolding if you so, you know,

(11:09):
you're on this journey like they can make it so far,
but they kind of have blind spots. So talk a
little bit about business like this process considering boards and governance.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, and I appreciate this, David. I think it's something
that more and more folks are starting to think about,
when's the right time for me to get an advisory board. Like,
let's face it, to be an entrepreneur, it's a heavy lift.
You're risking capital, You're risking uh, your social capital, You're
risking your time and time at home with loved ones.

(11:40):
There's there's a time and it's and it's it's isolating.
It can be lonely, and unless you've been there before,
you probably don't really deeply get it. There's only so
much you can bring home at the end of the
day and boy your spouse with uh. There's only so
much that you can worry your employees with. There's only
so much you can tell you're invest about without you know,

(12:01):
freaking them out that maybe you're having a bad quarter.
And so what do you do with all this weight?
And so you know, for sure, folks reach out to
people like me and you and you know where coaches
and advisors and we can support. But you know, maybe
an hour every two weeks or an hour every month
isn't enough. And maybe you want a group of very

(12:21):
well chosen folks to wrap around you, two or three
or four people to start and to go on the
journey with you, to have quarterly meetings, to ask really
thoughtful questions, because they read your financials, because they understand
your sales funnels, because they understand your supply chains, and

(12:43):
they get to know your company deeply and intimately. And
they're both in it and not in it. They're in
it inso far as they're following along and they don't
have to learn everything. It's not like a one off
consulting job. This is somebody who's going to be with
you for a couple of years, right, maybe three or
four years at the minimum. So they're all in and
you pay them and they come along with you. But

(13:04):
they bring their wisdom. Maybe they're been an entrepreneur before,
maybe they have an accounting background, or you know whatever
you don't have a lot of. Maybe that's who you
choose to round out your advisory board. So when I
think about, you know, I've started a bunch of advisory
boards for companies and I've sat on them. I'm like
sharing an advisory board right now, and it's a growing,

(13:26):
fabulous company and two founders that are in their kind
of you know, like I guess maybe mid thirties, and
they've just hit a stage in growth where they needed deep,
deeper expertise around processes and systems and performance management for
you know, a professionalized management team that they knew they
need to bring in and so they've never done it before,

(13:48):
and you know, they kind of know what they need,
but they don't know how to do it, and they
would like to, you know, not make all the mistakes right.
So you know, I was kind of being a coach
and an advisor to them, and it was pretty clear
to me that they were ready for an advisory board
to wrap around to go on this journey. And that's
what we've done. So now we're into getting a recruitment

(14:09):
firm and hiring their first CEO that's going to gradually
take over the day to day operationalizing and running of
their business. And what an incredible journey and a growth
and a journey of growth. You know, one of them
wants to move out, the other ones to kind of
dig in and do different kind of work inside the business,
and so it affords all of that, and I think

(14:31):
that governance and allowing you to tell the story of
your company to somebody that really came to a group
of people that are following along carefully, who are just
as intimately into the details as you are, who can
ask penetrating questions, who can hold you accountable. But you know,
I think the most important thing, honestly, it's just the

(14:52):
quarterly touch point of needing to tell the full, big
picture story in a way that's coherent is so great
because you get out of your own head and you
have an audience, and just preparing that deck is often
just helpful to clear yourself to be able to have
the kind of structure right that you that you need.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, I mean, I want to break this down further.
This is great. I just recorded a podcast last week. Actually,
it's benny interesting to say this. I was talking to
a commercial insurance broker. He's going around, you know, getting
quotes for their insurance of what they're doing in the business,
and he was telling me how much he struggles with

(15:31):
getting a narrative, a clear narrative to the business. What
are you about? What are all the things that you're doing?
So I an advocate for you trying to get the
best coverage, the right coverage for but like to your point,
I think it gets muddled and you're not and you
get kind of insular and you're like you know it
in your head maybe as a founder, but it's not
clear to the rest of it. So what I hear

(15:52):
you saying, Johnathan, come in and asking those questions like,
hold on, let's clarify this. Are we doing the most
important thing? Are we focus on the right things, the
right metrics? And I know how important that is being
coached myself, because I still have coaches. I do know
I coach. I have outside people checking in on me

(16:13):
because I know I drift. I mean right, there's a
there's a drift or right, or your your course correcting
is all the time, maybe not huge swings, but are
we just making some adjustment?

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, And that that sort of external third party can
come in and can just ask you really like unsettlingly
simple questions like so where's this company going to be
in three years? And are we doing the things? Like
can you answer that in a simple sense, like do
you have a number in mind? Do you have you
know a series of markets in mind? Do you have

(16:45):
a product or service in mind that's new and different
than what you have today, and so you know, some
of the stuff just lives in our head but we
don't write it down. But having a board makes you
communicate to it, makes you tell a persuasive story. Yes,
you can strength test the idea. They can bring all
the wisdom from their hard earned scars that they've been through,

(17:06):
and you know you can skip ahead. And it's just
a really like a very calming way to show up
and think about designing the future of your business and
your own trajectory as an owner or founder or CEO.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, well, I think just the question, like you said,
where do you want to be in three I've had
a number of folks in the podcast in the mergers acquisition,
selling or buying a business, and business owners are thinking
about that accession plan. It's just kind of like, oh,
it's like a light switch. Well I'll just switch it.
I'll just sell it or turn it off. It's like

(17:42):
it does not that easy, just right.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Not at all. I Mean I have a good friend
of mine that's that's a management consultant as well, and
she always says, you know, like the offer comes when
you're at least ready, and so you know, like at
some point it will show up and so you know,
on some level you should be ready at any time,
is really the message that she has. And so, you know,

(18:07):
like thinking about how your business is performing, knowing your numbers,
knowing where you're weak and where you're strong, looking around
and asking yourself, you know, if I did have to
leave tomorrow, or if I had to step back from
the business, what might be my plan be Folks will say, oh, yeah,
you know, I've got somebody in there and they could
step in. And so what I mostly hear when they're

(18:28):
talking about that as an emergency succession plan, Like somebody
could hold the fort for six weeks, somebody could hold
the fort for three months. But that's different than you know,
what what might an acquisition look like? Or you know,
if I want to retire in three to five years,
I need to have my plan now, because if it's
going to be you know, like in my case, like

(18:50):
a management buyout, it takes years. Like you know, you
have to have a transition plan, you have to get
financing in place, you have to make sure your customers
are calm about the transition. So you kind of want
of like, you know, make it smooth. So all of
these things take time. They take clarity, They take a
series of open conversations that you know, in some respect,

(19:11):
the legal in the accounting stuff is actually the easy stuff.
It's the emotional change that's the hardest part. Like it's
been your identity, right and you're going to give that
up now and you're going to hand it to somebody else,
either you know, if it's private equity, or if it's
an employee buy art, or it's just a person down
the road that does something similar that wants to know
gobble you up. Whatever the case is, you're changed, and

(19:34):
once you're changed, you have to be able to go
on that emotional re engineering of who you are and
how you show up and how you're going to introduce
yourself at the Christmas party. And so all of those
things take time and they take care, and if you
can help it, it ought not be a surprise. And
I think you know, advisors can help boards. Advisory boards

(19:54):
can help prepare you because they're thinking about these other things.
You're too deep in it, yeah, and too busy to
be worried about what's happening in three years and what's
my transition going to Bay? Right, So that you know,
they're just more of the benefits to having more eyes
on on on the prize as it was.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, well, I agree with you. I think I saw
the the negative effects being in the company. I would
say very I think the owners were very thoughtful, but
they didn't have a war. But you said what I
heard say, Jonathan, is maybe they would hire a consultant
here to come in once a year or do some
a little kind of picking at certain things. But it

(20:32):
wasn't holistic. And it felt like for me anyways and
my own personal journey as a part owner, it didn't
give me confidence that I knew where the company was.
So it was ultimately led partly my departure for them.
So I was part owner all part I just didn't
see the greater vision. I saw the original ownership, and
I'm like, I just not clear on this. And so

(20:55):
you know, I think to your point of having a
regular quarterly meeting together, you know, looking at things, asking
the tougher questions that I think, you know, we're we
like to think we're logical, but to your point, you know,
there's a lot of emotion tied into things, and it's
like being objective, right, you're objectively, like you're very following it,
but you know, kind of looking at this from a

(21:17):
different perspective, right, totally, totally, yeah, I mean, I mean,
because I see many business owners struggle, the founders or
like you said, to your point, I'm working with them,
develop the team, but they're wanting to involved with so
many aspects of the business. Have all the answers. As

(21:38):
a board you're coming in, can't can't be making all
the decisions, right.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
No, No boards can help with lots of that. Like
you know, if if your goal is to work more
on the business and less in the business, and that's
you know, sort of almost a cliche thing that people
like to say that they want, but you know, I
just don't see it very often, you know. And people
they are founders that you know, grow and grow and grow,
especially in service based businesses. You know, they hit the

(22:04):
twenty thirty market and they're just in the value of death. Right.
It's the processes and systems that just kill them. It's
the it, it's the people's stuff, it's the delegation, and
these are the complex systems that you need to be
able to build so you can continue to add and
add and add and ultimately scale. Right. So theoretically, we

(22:24):
all know this when you're in it, though. Man, it's
just so tough because it's not theoretical, Like it's not
like let's add middle management and build out process and systems.
It's like Bob and Sally and like, it's the individual
humans and you've got to move them around, you've got
to train them, you've got to delegate to them, you
have a history with them. This stuff is really tough, right,

(22:45):
And I think it's you know, always to your advantage
to be able to pull back and pull up, and
whatever you can do to allow you to do that
in a regular, informed way, whether it's you know, a
coach or whether it's an advisor or whether it's an
advisory board is right for you and your journey just
allows you to have that second set of eyes that
pause and reflect. Uh, here's how I've seen it done elsewhere.

(23:08):
Here's some things that are coming up for me. Tell
me what you've already tried. Like for folks to ask
those kinds of questions and or share, uh, you know,
their own experience just helps you, you know, just rattles
your cage and just the right way. Right.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, I love that, so you know, so say it's
the business owner that they're hearing this. Hopefully you're hearing
this thing. You know what, I could use an advisory
I don't have that. What are the questions that should
ask you? Because I mean they could say, well, I'll
just grab this person. What I heard you say, Jonathan,
you're bringing that board together, whether you're tearing it or

(23:47):
a big part of it. But I hear you. You
got to get the right mix of people that kind
of work together because you don't have these people like
clashing against each other. Well, I think this one that's like,
how are we looking realistically at the business again? Yeah,
to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Okay, I'm glad you asked that. So, you know, a
grown up board, like not an advisory board, but a
board board, right from a slightly larger company. They've probably
got some ownership stake, or maybe it's just a fiduciary board. Right,
they're actually in charge of the company and they're ultimately
making those decisions. An advisory board, that's not true. It's

(24:21):
just a group of humans that wrap around you, that
walk with you, and that they're ultimately giving you the
best advice, asking their best questions, bringing their lived experience.
But you're not paying them to you know, actually hold
fiduciary accountability for the for the company. So that's the
difference we need to make that demarcation. But if you're

(24:43):
a small and medium sized business and you think, gee,
you know, meeting every quarter with three or four people
like in an ongoing way where I could tell my
sub stories too, and I could get some clear advice
and they could really you know, like ask me the
hard questions and hold me accountable and all that that
sounds attractive to you. The best way to start is

(25:04):
to find one person in your social network that has
board experience and has been on either advisory boards or
boards before. And if you can find that person, bring
them in and ask them about what it could look
like for them to set the board up for you,

(25:24):
not for you to set the whole board up yourself.
So this is the first act of letting go, my friends.
But find somebody who you know like and trust, or
somebody that you admire and say, you've been here before,
you've been in this sector before, or you're just somebody
in my community or in my network that I really
you know, have come to come to know. I'm thinking

(25:46):
about an advisory board. I'm wondering whether I could hire
you to be my inaugural board chair, and would you
go about interviewing me, getting to know the company, and
figuring out who the right people are to be on
this board. And so by delegating that task up and
finding somebody that you trust, you're going to bring them on.

(26:09):
Maybe you bring them mind for a year contract or
a two year contract to just literally be the inaugural
board hereing to set it up. They're going to do
things like create a matrix and a skills matrix. They're
gonna like interview you, take a good look at the company,
take a look at the competition, get a real sense
of where you're strong and where there might be some gaps,

(26:29):
a sense from you about where your company may be going.
And then they're going to go out and they're going
to tap either tap their network informally or maybe even formally,
look at staffing the rest of the advisory board. So
maybe maybe a process and systems in accounting just aren't
that strong, and maybe you know that, and maybe you think, God,
imagine having a chartered accountant on the advisory board. Somebody

(26:50):
that had you know, has recently retired and has just
got a wealth of experience. They're not going to do
that accounting work, but what they will do is ask
really hard questions about your P and L and your
balance sheet and how you're moving your money around and
you know what your margins are like or what your
churn rates like. Right, they're going to know the right
questions to ask and as and when you get ready

(27:13):
to hire into let's say finance, you've got somebody in
your back pocket who can sit in on those interviews.
You've got somebody who you could whose network you can access.
And that's just one example. Maybe it's marketing, maybe it's it,
maybe it's law. Like whatever is going on for you
in your business, you're going to have some blind spots

(27:34):
and some weaknesses, some areas of strength and allowing and
delegating that to a board shair to kind of build
it for you. Then, because the board is going to
gel with itself, you'll sit on the board as well
as the owner or owners like you'll sit on the board.
But having you know those folks built out around you
creates it like a just a powerful bench strength.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, no, I love how you say that, that wrap
around I think that's such a great image me as
you're hearing business owners, I have that trusted hopefully you do.
Hopefully have a couple of people like to your point, Jonathan,
find that person and engage them. Is Jonathan here and
say hey, how where can I get started? How could
I do? I think what I'm hearing you say, Jonathan, like,

(28:18):
you know, we want to get ahead of this and
not make those same mistakes all behind if you and
be better prepared for what comes if like you said,
that day will come with somebody wants to buy your business,
or or there's a maybe a legal challenge, or there's
some other elements in there, like how did you get
through you know? How did you handle you know, there's

(28:39):
a pr blow up?

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (28:41):
You know what? How do we handle this?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Right? Yeah? Like I think that the difference between a
one off, like hiring a consultant as a one off
is like, yeah, you might have a problem. They'll come
in and they'll understand it, and they'll like you'll pay
them to understand your problem and then hopefully they're going
to help you fix it. Great. A board's different. A
board is going to walk with you along the way
and they're there with you and so as you you know,

(29:07):
have you got the one off problems. Yep, You've also
got access to their rolodexes and to their networks, and uh,
they're gonna it's not going to be brand new information
for them. So if if one of your goals is
to sell a business, then you know you should be
finding people to sit on your advisory board that have
sold businesses absolutely right, right, and so they can you know,

(29:27):
they've they've lived that experience and they're going to go
through it and they're going to be able to bring
that experience and the g I wish I hads to
you and to your benefit. Also ps when you're putting
yourself up for sale or when folks are looking at
your business, if you've got a really nice blue chip
advisory board wrapped around you and they've been with you

(29:49):
for a couple of years, very calming for a potential
buyer m Because other people with social capital and experience
are willing to put their name on this business and
be involved and engaged with this business. That says good
things to me as a potential buyer. I get comfort
from that. It's not everything, but like it's another contributing

(30:09):
fact to the perception of value.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Absolutely, John No, that makes sense to me because look,
they've surrounded themselves. They're preparing themselves for some form of
selling succession whatever that might look like. You're asking the questions,
but I also hear you say, Jonathan, what is this business?
What is this? The goal of this in those part
of the core, But why do you do exist? Is

(30:35):
that still clear? In the marketplace? Thing obviously change, right
in companies that do a change and adapt, they're still here.
The ones that don't, uh, they you know, the Blockbusters
the world, the Code Acts of the world. There's things
that the things shifted in the marketplace, right, and they
didn't adjust. And I think sometimes because I think that, well,
I know the answer instead of having this outside official board,

(30:57):
a full board or an advisory But I think hearing this,
I hope everybody's hearing this. You can get this in place.
How much more adds to the overall value of the
company as the owner and really the enhances it to
I would say, everybody goes down like as you're talking
with the ownership, but it's really you know, it affects

(31:17):
the employees, even I would say, the subcontractors and other
relationships that they have right with their vendors.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And it really should.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yep. Absolutely. I know we're getting close to into the
podcast here, and I think that we'll have to have
you come back because there's so many great elements here
and we're gonna make sure everybody can connect with you
Cleland dot com or Jonathan and I are connected on
LinkedIn and we'll make sure everything's on in the show notes.
He has his own podcast as well, so you catch
him there. We're glad you're here, Jonathan, but I want

(31:44):
to give you an opportunity just for final takeaways as
we're kind of like looking at this. You've given us
a lot of things to talk about, from de corpse
to what look makes a great board member. But you know,
if there's anything that we should maybe take away. If
CEO's are on the fence about boards or succession, what
would you what would you share with them or wrapping
up this episode?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, like there's no time like the present. If some
of the things that you and I David have been
talking about are kind of twigging for you, move it
from there. I should get to that to the I'll
do it and put it in your calendar and book
yourself an appointment with yourself to actually get at these things.

(32:25):
I think that we can, the busyness of running a
business can just push everything that's you know, important but
not urgent off into the future until it comes and
bites us. And so make it urgent, make it, you know,
take the urgent and sorry, take the important and make
it urgent and and take action. And so if that

(32:46):
looks like just taking a couple of meetings with some
folks in your community that are ten years and fifteen
years ahead of you in business, or maybe they're just
potential good board members, and just start having some strategic conversations,
like even if it's like off in the distance for you,
like I don't even know how to answer the question
where might you know? Where might my business be in

(33:07):
ten years? What a wonderful opening salvo to a coffee? Yes, right,
Like I'm thinking that I don't even know where my
business might be going in ten years? Like did that
ever happen to you? Right? Imagine opening a coffee with that,
and like the stories will flow, the relationships can build,
and you can start to frame out what your business

(33:30):
might need, whether it's an advisory board, whether it's an
advisor or a coach, somebody to kind of walk with
you and support you on whatever is to come, as
opposed to just letting it arrive with a big old bah.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Right right, Well, it's it's building a life of business
by design, not just kind of like default, like just
whatever comes along. Totally. Jonathan, thank you so much for
being here on the podcast. It really is a pleasure
having you Jonathan. All you can follow on here on
the Business Round a podcast like subscribe, leave a comment,

(34:06):
we'll make sure Jonathan gets it again. Jonathan, thanks again for.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
All right, thanks everybody, take care. Until next time, be well,