November 25, 2025 • 32 mins
What does it mean to co-think with AI instead of fearing it?
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Philip Topham, Board and Executive AI Advisor, founder of CRAFT Thinking, and co-founder of SavionAI. Philip has published more than 130 essays on AI, is completing a new book on CRAFT Thinking, and helps boards and CEOs turn AI disruption into clarity, foresight, and measurable results.
David and Philip explore how small-to-mid-sized professional service firms, executives, and boards can move beyond fear and begin leveraging AI as a tool for leadership, decision-making, and growth. Philip explains how AI is best understood as a “co-thinker”—augmenting human creativity rather than replacing it—and how intentional adoption and governance are key to success.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Connect with Philip Topham:
Website: http://www.philiptopham.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philiptopham
Substack: https://savionai.substack.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Philip Topham, Board and Executive AI Advisor, founder of CRAFT Thinking, and co-founder of SavionAI. Philip has published more than 130 essays on AI, is completing a new book on CRAFT Thinking, and helps boards and CEOs turn AI disruption into clarity, foresight, and measurable results.
David and Philip explore how small-to-mid-sized professional service firms, executives, and boards can move beyond fear and begin leveraging AI as a tool for leadership, decision-making, and growth. Philip explains how AI is best understood as a “co-thinker”—augmenting human creativity rather than replacing it—and how intentional adoption and governance are key to success.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why AI should be seen as a co-thinker to enhance human creativity
- How small businesses can integrate AI affordably without massive budgets
- The importance of governance and intentionality when adopting AI
- Why company culture determines how AI should be applied
- How AI can reduce drudgery and free leaders to focus on relationships and growth
Connect with Philip Topham:
Website: http://www.philiptopham.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philiptopham
Substack: https://savionai.substack.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr, founder of Steward Your Business Will. We bring
people together to accomplish great things. We have a brand
new guest this week. I'm super excited to have Philip
Topham on here. Philip is done a wide range of
different things. We're gonna get into it, but board executive,
AI advisor, founder of Craft Thinking, co founder of Save
(00:35):
You on AI. We're going to learn all about how
do you co think with AI in today's world, leading
with clarity in a really a disrupted world. Right now.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Philip, great to be here, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Great conversation, absolutely absolutely. You and I got to meet
recently at the Executive Next practice here in Orange County,
which was fantastic, and you gave a great talk about
boards and how they're using AI. And I said, well,
we got to get Phillip on this podcast. You've written,
I mean a lot of different essays, you're on substack,
generative AI, you have a new book coming out, I mean,
there's a lot of different things, and I thought, well,
(01:08):
let's get you on here and talk about this. But
before we dive into the media that I always like
to have our guests share a little bit about their
journey as an entrepreneur, business owner, leader, just you know,
take us through your own journey, Philip of what got
you today and why you're doing the things that you're
doing now.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So let me start with first. I'm always looking forward
and I've totally focused on the generative AI.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
When the chats gipp landed, I thought, oh, this is great, this.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is pretty neat, but I was a little hesitant because
normally I'm ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And a one hundred million downloads later, I said wow.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And that's when I committed myself personally to writing on substack,
and I said, I'm going to challenge myself personally to
write two articles a week for fifty weeks, one hundred articles.
I'm now up to one hundred and thirty five articles,
and I've dug deep to understand it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How I came here was I've always been interested.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In the future, sci fi reading a routine, got into computers.
I've been a CIO for some large companies and then
some my own startup and also give it back right
now at both the University of California Riverside and Irvine
to deep tech companies, new founders, I advisory boards, and
(02:28):
then I even I like camping, I like Bill Yours,
I do scuba diving. I'm now trying to travel the world.
I'm going to go to Egypt to the Pyramids here soon.
I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I love it. You have a zest for life, so
do I fill up? And then we have a lot
of similar passions. You can tell about my lightsaber behind
me for those of you are watching the video, you know,
so I love that you have that. One of the
things you coined that I heard you say, I don't
say this when we were at the conference and executive
back practice, as you said this word co thinking with AI,
(03:04):
and I thought, okay, this hasn't presented this way, and
that really stuck with me. And it just feels different
than most people how most people are describing AI always
ais are going to replace my, replace me. But I'm
starting to see a little percolation in this about thinking
how do we help elevate our workforce? But can you
break that down a little bit, what do you what
do you mean by when you say co thinking with
(03:26):
because maybe new to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, so let's let's start with the two letters A I.
If I asked ten people, I'll get twenty opinions. Let
me level said. When I'm usually talking about AI, I'm
talking about all the stuff that suddenly came out when chatchipt.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Open AI launched on the scenes and.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Then made conversations available with this artificial intelligence that you know,
we could have conversations. And what I noticed was this
hype over using the technology for replacing jobs or we're
doing a reitive task, like all the knowledge worker jobs
are going to go away, And I'm thinking, what value
(04:09):
do I really do if I'm matching invoices. I'm like,
I'm moving, I'm a knowledge worker, I'm matching an invoice.
But what I realized as I'm working with people is
that stuff that's intrinsically human, our our creativity are thinking.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
The AI doesn't have it, they.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Don't have the emotions that they have what we write
about it. So thinking was this idea. I found myself
using it to augment the way I thought about things.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'm a naturally, I'm a deep thinker.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Obviously as a writing I'm sharing my thoughts my thinking
discovered that it was augmenting my humanity right, letting is
getting rid of the drudgery. Like I would have never
have been able to write if I had to edit.
I'm a terrible editor. I hate it. But grudgery has
(05:02):
gone away. But now I can say I can write,
I can talk, and then I can recraft the story
and I can think about what does that mean? How
does it mean? And that's what I mean about co
thinking and I we can There's lots to unpack there,
but let's just start there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, no, I think, well, I think that's I hope
people that are listening into this because I really like
that approach that you're bringing to bring out some of
the drudgery of things and how do we make our
I like that augmented? How do we become a better
version of ourselves? And here is another tool out there
to do that. I think, you know, trying to remove
(05:39):
some of the fear or the worry or the doubt
instead of saying, how do we lean into this and
have a healthier conversation? And I thought, I really what
I saw you and others facilitating that at that Executive
Next Practice particular the panel that you were on. Now,
a lot of folks that I work with are in
the small business professional services realm. How do you see
(06:05):
them now leaning into this that don't maybe have massive
AI budgets or there to be. But then we got
to figure out how to co think with this, like
they can't ignore it. I mean, like you said, it's there,
it's upon us.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Oh boy, I love the softball questions. That's an easy one. Frankly,
you know it's this is the thing is when you
hear the two letters AI and you hear all this
massive money that open AI and Google and they're spending
the stuff, well they're spending it, so that's really cheap
twenty bucks a month or even the free versions are free,
(06:42):
you know. So all that's required is for you to
use the prompt asks questions, but start having conversations with
it in a way and there's a little bit of adjustment.
And I'll give you an example. If you and I
had the conversation. We both live in southern California. If
(07:04):
I said I'm going down to the river this weekend,
you might know that I'm going to Lake havisu Colorado
River to jet ski or something. Yes, immediately, if I
set up in a Sacramento you might go, I'm going
to the Sacramento River. Don't that?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
But if I tell it Ai, I'm going to the.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
River this week and I'll go what river? I don't know?
You have you have to tell it the stuff. Humans
will do it a little different, like we'll ask. And
so that's where the craft thinking comes in. It's how
to adjust the way we have a conversation to augment ourselves.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, I that that is a great analogy because
I think people don't realize, oh that't hasn't it has that?
It doesn't have that knowledge base. I mean the knowledge
is there, but how do you access it? How do
you set it up? So I'm gonna back up, I
leave a little bit more of the what would you
say if if there's maybe a smaller firm or they're
looking like, what would you say is the first meaningful
(08:02):
step that they should consider with integrating AI into their
you know, to co think with it. I mean, like
you said, you can go get the free version, but
maybe just like Haye ad hoc, like as a company,
like kind of making a practical step of like okay,
we're going to go step into this world.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Yeah, every every company, especially the service companies, you have
a unique gift.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I don't know whatever that service is.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
You're delivering, you have a unique gift. And when you
double down on it, figure out what is that unique
gift that I have, rehab company has, and then what
are all the stuff that's kind of like ah, that
like the editing of this case or writing the copy
for LinkedIn. That's some mechanical stuff. But maybe you're presenting
(08:46):
some information to a client and you're before you were rushed,
you couldn't. You had to write it out, you go
back your notes, you pre pred it down. But here
you could literally speak your eye ideas of what you're
going to present to the customer.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Oh, I'm going to meet this customer. Here is their situation.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm trying to help them accelerate their sales, and I'm
thinking about different things. Help me understand how I might
approach this person. Now you're having a conversation with yourself
but also with the computer, because we naturally do that.
We always have that little person sitting on our shoulder
and we're thinking. But we can now say it out loud.
(09:30):
If we get feedback, that's priceless, right that any service
providor can do it. Any company, and I believe every
company should have.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, no, I think well that's a very safe environment
that you can start after that question is not with
a real customer or a real client maybe messing it
up and saying, let me test these things our ideas here.
And I've seen some really neat technologies now where you
can talk to it and have a talk back to you,
or different ways of interfacing with it. So don't be afraid.
What I hear you say is don't be afraid of
(10:03):
exploring that and really getting a better understanding, because I mean,
I have work in professional services. I submit a proposal
out there in the past before AI and I and
we didn't win the work, and we understand. But now
I could maybe anticipate that what you're saying, develop us
work through that, anticipate what some of the objections or
questions might be before we even actually send it out there.
See what you know.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Learn absolutely. Let's suppose you have a past proposal that.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You you would use as you're the new thing. You
would literally have a conversation and say, hey, I'm thinking
about submit I'm looking to submit a new proposal.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I like you to take a look at the old proposal.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm going to be loaded up and then say this
particular situation is this, I'm worried that I'm not got
the right messaging or I'm worried that I've got too
much or too little.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
You help me think through how I might with the
good things in the proposal, what are the bad things?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And here's the kicker. You can also go what are
the implications of the next steps, Like if the customer,
if the proposal is asking for this, what might be
things I think they're looking for this? What other things
might they be looking for that I haven't yet thought about?
(11:22):
As just simply asking that question. Even if the answer
is not perfect, right, that's not the point. You have
an answer and you'll be able to react to it.
But when you're the only person doing all of the
thinking and all of it gets tired, it gets so
you have a you can have a conversation with the
AI and that's the real point. You're co thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, I love that. Now. Before we recorded the podcast
up United conversation and a couple things stood out to me.
And when you're talking about layers that we have within
organization of individual tools, organizational kind of intentionality, and then
the enterprise efficiency if you will, could you kind of
break that down for me and for our audience.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, every First off, every company whoever owns the company,
they have and they have they have a reason for
owning the company, right company serves. They have some intentionality
around what the company is supposed to provide. You know,
we intend to be the best in this industry. We
be intend to be the best in that industry, or
(12:30):
we put customers first. And the reason we have it
is we want to have a lifestyle business, or we
the reason we do it is we want to get
venture capital and sell it to Silicon Valley and retire
and go on the beach. Everybody has a core intentionality
or I just want to put food on the table
for my families to go college. That's very important.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Every person has that. But the business exists a serve
everybody's needs.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And so in the business, when you start thinking about
your business, I always break down, there's the CEO, the
C suite, maybe director, salespeople. They all fit in a
different place and you each have different roles. And so
you can actually use the term I use a digital
twin your co thinker.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh yes, yes, And.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
You could have a co thinker. I believe every person
has a you should have a co thinker that helps
them with your job.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
The thought partner knows that your job.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
They know where you're fit, they know what you're supposed
to be doing, your objectives, what.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You intend to do, or your intentionality, and it helps
you think through those.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I even think it should be on the ORG chart.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, Yeah, I love that well. I love the idea
of a code thinker because I see this in an organization,
particularly small organizations developed and I think this is I'd
love to get your thoughts on this with AI. If
you develop a code you know thinker this, you know
this using the AI, if something happens to that individual
in the organization, they get sick, they're out, they need
to take vacation, maternal leave. If you're developing, and I
(14:04):
see where you can get value and say, I've got
some questions for you that you're gone, you're the person
is gone, but I can can I get some understanding
of how to do you payroll of the invoices or
something's missing? You know, And that if I have that
well developed within the organization, can be very powerful, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I Yet, yet I hadn't thought of that, But yes, absolutely,
you the more these systems are adding memory to their capabilities,
they know a lot of that stuff and as you
start putting in the information, it has a body of knowledge.
So if you're you're the payroll person and you're putting
(14:39):
in all the payroll stuffs, it can co think with
you how payroll and help you with those sorts of
things as well. But but it's the parts. Those are
some of those are the mechanical parts, but there's a
lot of things like how do I handle that difficult
person I'm doing cols, what are the strategies I've never
done this before?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Can you help me through this? How much role play
this difficult person?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Those are great ways.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
To use AI as a as a helper.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Right, Yeah, No, you're you're speaking my language, Philip, because
that's part of what I do with Steward your business
is organizational health and giving them some tools to start
working through that. And then I come in as a
coach and we work through some things and elements and
consultant as well. But I think getting you going absolutely,
I think it's a great perspective, Philip, of like how
do you use those why follow up question I guess
(15:34):
to the the to the co you know, creating this
digital twin if you will, how do you because I
could see this could be a little bit of a
trap if they're not prepared for this or thinking forward enough.
L how do you help avoid leaders avoid the trap
of maybe being siloed, meaning everybody kind of using their
own Like you said, it's free, I'm gonna go pick
JAM and I'm gonna go pick copilot, I'm going to
pick chat GPT, so they're all starting their own little
(15:56):
conversations if you will.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, So that's always back to the Yes, that's the
little bits of governance that's around the government, best practices
around governing and managing your business. You always want to
have some thoughts as to your what's your AI policy.
It doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't need to
(16:18):
be you know, incted blood, but it's the guidelines, like
we prefer this tech technology so that we can all
share best practices for this technology doesn't prescribe people. It
also depends on the type of business you are. Like
I for most people seem to be overly worried about
(16:40):
the privacy piece.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, complete, but you stop.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And think about it. Who's really, really, really trying to
steal all your ip Like if I am the largest
of pharmaceutical companies and I have a secret formula. Really,
they're not trying to steal a secret formula as much
as they're trying to steal like my marketing plans. When
(17:06):
am I going to market my produgt and and those industries.
They're naturally careful, so they they'll talk. They have their
own they're big enough they they buy their own services
and say, use my use only the approved company services
to deal with these sensitive topics. But it's the same things.
They're smart enough to go. If I call them up
(17:27):
on the phone, say tell me your secret formula, they'll go, no,
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I think people for some reason over worry it. But
if I'm a if I'm an I don't know why
I'm accountant. So if I'm an accounting firm, right, how
many ways are the new entry of of recording an entry? Like?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Is that a secret?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Do I worry about it? No?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Nothing proprietary there.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, well you brought so we talked. You have a
lot of experience. We just talked about governance. I'd love
to get in there because you work with a private
director association, another you're helping boards, you know, so whether
you actually have a full on board or you know,
something smaller in your business, how should they be thinking
about that from a you know, a governance perspective, leadership perspective.
(18:22):
I mean there use the secrecy is definitely one of
these sues you're bringing up. But how and how they
look at strategy and how they're they're running their companies.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Perfect, Let's let's level set a little bit here, because yeah,
so governance is a fancy weird you know, realistically, the
governance is what are.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
We going to do? How are we going to run
this business?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And and most people they have a sense of what it.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Is like We're going to be honest, we're gonna be ethical,
we're going to be caring, we're gonna we're going to
tell people what we're doing and you know, meet our word.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You know, they they have that sense.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
When companies get super duper duper large, that gets more
and more challenging because you end up dealing with more governments.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
You might be dealing with Europe or you know, and
so you have.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
A lots more regulations because different countries have different and
it gets a mess. But at the end of the day,
the top of the business of the board, they're dealing
with a strategy, like what is our business? Do we
expand over here or not expand over here? What's going
to happen when let's imagine we have a future where
(19:37):
we have robots. You know, we have cars now, maybe
we want robotic driving cars. What might that look like?
That's strategy, right, But you know if I have a
robotic car, the tactics might be how do I repair
the car? Right? Those are tactics, And so the big
thing for small companies is to is that's where the
(19:57):
cothinking is really important. Are you working on the business,
which is the strategy, or are you working in the business,
which are all the tactics?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
M right, yeah, well, and I think it's easy. It's
most time I find, at least especially small businessors are
working a lot in the business and they're not spending
enough time on the tactics. And where do you see?
You mentioned the digital twin? Where do you see you know?
And the strategy perspective?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Philip? Is it?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You know you mentioned asking questions and some things with
clients and customers, But what do you see as a
leadership perspective, how we can better use AI and making
those strategic decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, so here's a here's a here's a great one.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I use a lot of times. There's two things I
asked people.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
One is.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
What a lot of people look at the risk of things.
I said that we don't.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Need AI, We're going to go slow, We're going to things.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And I asked the question, what happens if you're the
last person in your industry to you start using these technologies?
What what does that do to your business? And what
would happen you were.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The last one to get on the train or start even.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Working right, especially it's just and then the second question
I usually ask, how would you completely reimagine your business
in the age of the jetsons, uh to like the
compute future where you have the iron Man Jarvis answering
your questions and doing your business for you?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
What would that look like? And now it's it's it's like,
would you be in business right?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I don't know, Like there was a point in history
when taxi cab the gold yellow medallion in New York,
you know, and then Uber comes along and takes eats
their lunch right now.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, right, things will change.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's always been true.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Smart businesses are thinking about how what is going to
happen and planning out the answers, like practicing how they
would make the decision.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You don't need to make the decision today because it
hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, what would.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Happen if we could redo our business?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
What AI startups are coming.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
For our business? Right?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I love as you're as you're saying that example of
the taxis Philip. What came to mind for me was, uh,
Netflix and Blockbuster, Blockbuster being the biggest video right, they
were there, they were the top of the heap. Yeah,
and then they were, oh, we'll do streaming, but it
was already too late. Netflix had already got their foot
in the door. They already and they did it kind
of step wise. They said, we'll mail you whatever DVD
(22:48):
is back and the day for those people that remember this,
But and then they went to streaming, and then they
and then they the Blockbuster is no more so to
your point, and I think more than ever, I love
your thoughts on this. I was talking with another colleague yesterday,
but you know, AI is here. It's not like in
the past. Where we had different softwarees. We want to
it's kind of thrust upon us, if you will. So
(23:09):
you know, like you said, you kind of ignore it
at your own peril.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Right, yeah, So I'll use this analogy for a lot
of us like you and I. We've we've lived enough,
like we've seen technology come and go. And I just
wrote an article, you know, the express express train ticketed
passengers only somebody was suggesting that this change is you know,
(23:35):
just suck it up. You know, the change is no
big deal. Right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, I went through the dot com, I.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Went through the iPhone, through all these things, deglobalization, the.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Collapse of the Berlin Wall, all these.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Things in my lifetime, right and I go. And so
I could say, hey, mister new person and with AI,
just suck it up. It's just changed, no big deal.
But what I will say is now put that entire
lifetime of change into the next five years. Okay, now,
(24:11):
what is your business again? That's scary, it's scary, But
what're not so scary.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Is this technology lets us.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Do what we're really really good at, which is being creative,
inquisitive humans, figuring stuff out and taking care of people
and working relationships and helping customers and helping them solve problems.
We're good at that.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There were eight billion people on the planet good at it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yes there's problems, don't get me wrong, there's problems, but
you know, if we were not very successful at it,
we might have maybe one hundred million people on the planet. Right,
So we've done something reasonably well and we need to
get better.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So I tend to be a I don't always look
at the bad stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I'm a pragmatist that says, you know, yes, there's room
to improvement. Absolutely, But I'm also a believer this technology
can use those of us to Again.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I don't have to learn how to be a grammaratist grammatist.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It just helps, does it for me?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah? No, Well, I love I love your perspective, and
I appreciate the the the positive voice to see things.
I mean, the reality of what you're saying is the
gravity of that. I think it is important that we
kind of take that to home. But what I had
I had a conversation on a podcast recently a gentleman.
We were talking he does SAP enterprise users signing us off.
(25:37):
We were talking about this and he he We're talking
about how technology and AI specifically, we feel that it
could help make us better people. But from your perspective,
how do you you say AI can accelerate or amplify
maybe a return to more authentic relationships. We've had a
break down there. We were more connected, but I think
we're still missing the authenticity that of being truly known
(25:59):
and having the deeper relationships. Unfortunately, our world is a
broken world, but we've done some better things. How do
you see this helping us in that space?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think there's a very deep question. But the more
that some of this drudgery is taken care of, and
the more that there's transactions, I think we then are
very It's very obvious when we get a great relationship,
(26:29):
it's much easier to say, all, Wow, I really made
a connection to that person. I really made an impact.
And I believe once as we start seeing the impact
on that like I belong. As you mentioned that the
Private Directors Association and that organization, you could argue professional
organizations have had a very difficult time through all the
(26:53):
new content on YouTube and everything else. What makes that
organization work is the personal relationship ships, all the connections
and all the opportunities to talk and help each other
and talk about all the changes that are occurring that community.
I believe that we've come through this phase of discounting community,
(27:15):
discounted relationships. AI is going to make it, give us
more time to recognize those relationships are so important. And
I believe that we'll as we get we'll go back
to what we want. I'm I'm scared. I'm worried. Oh,
let me help you. Right, that's a relationship, and so
(27:35):
I think we'll go through this weird period, but I
think we'll find more of that authenticity as we come
out and figure it out. Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I mean, I'm encouraged to hear you say that, Phillips,
of all the research and where you're at on things.
And again, you guys check out AI. He's got on
subsectly what over one hundred and thirty thirty five articles
you said, the.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Thirty articles, and the big big push right now is
the Craft Thinking and that will be launched.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's a proper book turned into a book.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Come to you.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I got it over to the editor to help me,
a real life human editor.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Right, I did. I did the manual stuff, but he's
gonna do tell me. I'm all stupid or not.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
It encourages me as one that's you know, my passion
is bringing people together to accomplish great things, to bringing
that human connection. I feel like to your point, Philip,
I think our human experience we are designed, and I
believe you know we have an innate draw within ourselves
to connect with each other. We have this podcast, you
and I are connecting. We're sharing it with the world,
(28:39):
and we want in the in the attempts that we
can reach more people, but because we want them to
connect and we want you as you guys are listening
to this. If you guys have a question or comment,
please put in here or we'll get it to Philip
so he can respond. Philip and I are connected on
LinkedIn as well, reach out connect. He's been great, he
was really responds to me. I got to meet him
because this is beautiful, Philip, because I know I saw
you were going to speak at the event, I reached
(28:59):
out to you on LinkedIn. I got to talk with
this guy, and then I got to meet you in
real person in the event and here we are on
the podcast. I think it's a beautiful thing and I
so appreciate having you here.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Absolutely It's been great to have the conversation and share
a little just a little bit of folks.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I'd love to have any other conversations out there.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Make my promises to everybody. I hope to shorten your journey.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
As we're as we're getting wrapping up on the podcast,
and Philip, I would love to have you back, and
we probably have to have another roundtable because I love
the one that you did on your on the panel.
Uh last was last month. You know what if if
you know, if they listen, is if we have leaders,
business owners, folks that are up and coming and using
you know AI, you know what would you say? Okay,
(29:44):
if nothing else, would you practically say, Hey, where do
I begin or where should I just look at or
evaluate so that I'm the future ready, that I'm prepared
for what it's like you said, it's here, it's coming.
How do I just better equip and enable myself to
to co think with this ada be in a better
place going forward to two things.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
One is give yourself grace. Anytime we're learning something new,
it feels weird, squishy, uncomfortable. Am I doing it right?
Am I doing it wrong? What's the best? And as
adults were worse than that. So channel your channel, your
two year old, but why, like, how does this work?
(30:29):
And so that's the first thing. Give yourself grace and
then just use any of the tools. I don't care
what tool you use, typing or speaking into it and
saying I'm new to AI, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
In this industry, this is my job, this is what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I want to learn how to use AI for whatever reason,
or I don't even believe it's right, help me understand
and start having a conversation with it. And then you
can ask what tool, what products should I use? To
what training courses should I do? It'll pretty course, will
it be perfect? No. In fact, you might think a
(31:09):
course that sucks, that's okay, but you'll learn just like
you did on the bike.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's not the learning style for me. So one step
at a time, as.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Opposed to living into the fears of, oh it's too
fast for me, I'm just going to retire out because frankly,
if you're even at the retirement age, you've probably got
twenty years of life afterwards that you could do so
many things on a big impact on the world. And
here's a tool that can.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Leverage your abilities and gifts for everybody, So.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Just get started.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Man. I love that fella. Thank you so much for
being here on the podcast with us. I hope you'll
come back again. You just give us some great insights.
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me love
it well awesome. Of course we love having you guys.
Subscribe and follow along. Leave your comments. We'll make sure
we get those to fill up.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Leave a review.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We appreciate your five star reviews. Sharing this with your colleagues.
Come back into the next episode of the Business Round
People podcast. Thanks ever everybody for listening. Until next time,
be well. Thanks everybody threat here
Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr, founder of Steward Your Business Will. We bring
people together to accomplish great things. We have a brand
new guest this week. I'm super excited to have Philip
Topham on here. Philip is done a wide range of
different things. We're gonna get into it, but board executive,
AI advisor, founder of Craft Thinking, co founder of Save
(00:35):
You on AI. We're going to learn all about how
do you co think with AI in today's world, leading
with clarity in a really a disrupted world. Right now.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Philip, great to be here, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Great conversation, absolutely absolutely. You and I got to meet
recently at the Executive Next practice here in Orange County,
which was fantastic, and you gave a great talk about
boards and how they're using AI. And I said, well,
we got to get Phillip on this podcast. You've written,
I mean a lot of different essays, you're on substack,
generative AI, you have a new book coming out, I mean,
there's a lot of different things, and I thought, well,
(01:08):
let's get you on here and talk about this. But
before we dive into the media that I always like
to have our guests share a little bit about their
journey as an entrepreneur, business owner, leader, just you know,
take us through your own journey, Philip of what got
you today and why you're doing the things that you're
doing now.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So let me start with first. I'm always looking forward
and I've totally focused on the generative AI.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
When the chats gipp landed, I thought, oh, this is great, this.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is pretty neat, but I was a little hesitant because
normally I'm ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And a one hundred million downloads later, I said wow.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And that's when I committed myself personally to writing on substack,
and I said, I'm going to challenge myself personally to
write two articles a week for fifty weeks, one hundred articles.
I'm now up to one hundred and thirty five articles,
and I've dug deep to understand it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How I came here was I've always been interested.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In the future, sci fi reading a routine, got into computers.
I've been a CIO for some large companies and then
some my own startup and also give it back right
now at both the University of California Riverside and Irvine
to deep tech companies, new founders, I advisory boards, and
(02:28):
then I even I like camping, I like Bill Yours,
I do scuba diving. I'm now trying to travel the world.
I'm going to go to Egypt to the Pyramids here soon.
I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I love it. You have a zest for life, so
do I fill up? And then we have a lot
of similar passions. You can tell about my lightsaber behind
me for those of you are watching the video, you know,
so I love that you have that. One of the
things you coined that I heard you say, I don't
say this when we were at the conference and executive
back practice, as you said this word co thinking with AI,
(03:04):
and I thought, okay, this hasn't presented this way, and
that really stuck with me. And it just feels different
than most people how most people are describing AI always
ais are going to replace my, replace me. But I'm
starting to see a little percolation in this about thinking
how do we help elevate our workforce? But can you
break that down a little bit, what do you what
do you mean by when you say co thinking with
(03:26):
because maybe new to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, so let's let's start with the two letters A I.
If I asked ten people, I'll get twenty opinions. Let
me level said. When I'm usually talking about AI, I'm
talking about all the stuff that suddenly came out when chatchipt.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Open AI launched on the scenes and.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Then made conversations available with this artificial intelligence that you know,
we could have conversations. And what I noticed was this
hype over using the technology for replacing jobs or we're
doing a reitive task, like all the knowledge worker jobs
are going to go away, And I'm thinking, what value
(04:09):
do I really do if I'm matching invoices. I'm like,
I'm moving, I'm a knowledge worker, I'm matching an invoice.
But what I realized as I'm working with people is
that stuff that's intrinsically human, our our creativity are thinking.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
The AI doesn't have it, they.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Don't have the emotions that they have what we write
about it. So thinking was this idea. I found myself
using it to augment the way I thought about things.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'm a naturally, I'm a deep thinker.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Obviously as a writing I'm sharing my thoughts my thinking
discovered that it was augmenting my humanity right, letting is
getting rid of the drudgery. Like I would have never
have been able to write if I had to edit.
I'm a terrible editor. I hate it. But grudgery has
(05:02):
gone away. But now I can say I can write,
I can talk, and then I can recraft the story
and I can think about what does that mean? How
does it mean? And that's what I mean about co
thinking and I we can There's lots to unpack there,
but let's just start there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, no, I think, well, I think that's I hope
people that are listening into this because I really like
that approach that you're bringing to bring out some of
the drudgery of things and how do we make our
I like that augmented? How do we become a better
version of ourselves? And here is another tool out there
to do that. I think, you know, trying to remove
(05:39):
some of the fear or the worry or the doubt
instead of saying, how do we lean into this and
have a healthier conversation? And I thought, I really what
I saw you and others facilitating that at that Executive
Next Practice particular the panel that you were on. Now,
a lot of folks that I work with are in
the small business professional services realm. How do you see
(06:05):
them now leaning into this that don't maybe have massive
AI budgets or there to be. But then we got
to figure out how to co think with this, like
they can't ignore it. I mean, like you said, it's there,
it's upon us.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Oh boy, I love the softball questions. That's an easy one. Frankly,
you know it's this is the thing is when you
hear the two letters AI and you hear all this
massive money that open AI and Google and they're spending
the stuff, well they're spending it, so that's really cheap
twenty bucks a month or even the free versions are free,
(06:42):
you know. So all that's required is for you to
use the prompt asks questions, but start having conversations with
it in a way and there's a little bit of adjustment.
And I'll give you an example. If you and I
had the conversation. We both live in southern California. If
(07:04):
I said I'm going down to the river this weekend,
you might know that I'm going to Lake havisu Colorado
River to jet ski or something. Yes, immediately, if I
set up in a Sacramento you might go, I'm going
to the Sacramento River. Don't that?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
But if I tell it Ai, I'm going to the.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
River this week and I'll go what river? I don't know?
You have you have to tell it the stuff. Humans
will do it a little different, like we'll ask. And
so that's where the craft thinking comes in. It's how
to adjust the way we have a conversation to augment ourselves.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, I that that is a great analogy because
I think people don't realize, oh that't hasn't it has that?
It doesn't have that knowledge base. I mean the knowledge
is there, but how do you access it? How do
you set it up? So I'm gonna back up, I
leave a little bit more of the what would you
say if if there's maybe a smaller firm or they're
looking like, what would you say is the first meaningful
(08:02):
step that they should consider with integrating AI into their
you know, to co think with it. I mean, like
you said, you can go get the free version, but
maybe just like Haye ad hoc, like as a company,
like kind of making a practical step of like okay,
we're going to go step into this world.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Yeah, every every company, especially the service companies, you have
a unique gift.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I don't know whatever that service is.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
You're delivering, you have a unique gift. And when you
double down on it, figure out what is that unique
gift that I have, rehab company has, and then what
are all the stuff that's kind of like ah, that
like the editing of this case or writing the copy
for LinkedIn. That's some mechanical stuff. But maybe you're presenting
(08:46):
some information to a client and you're before you were rushed,
you couldn't. You had to write it out, you go
back your notes, you pre pred it down. But here
you could literally speak your eye ideas of what you're
going to present to the customer.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Oh, I'm going to meet this customer. Here is their situation.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm trying to help them accelerate their sales, and I'm
thinking about different things. Help me understand how I might
approach this person. Now you're having a conversation with yourself
but also with the computer, because we naturally do that.
We always have that little person sitting on our shoulder
and we're thinking. But we can now say it out loud.
(09:30):
If we get feedback, that's priceless, right that any service
providor can do it. Any company, and I believe every
company should have.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, no, I think well that's a very safe environment
that you can start after that question is not with
a real customer or a real client maybe messing it
up and saying, let me test these things our ideas here.
And I've seen some really neat technologies now where you
can talk to it and have a talk back to you,
or different ways of interfacing with it. So don't be afraid.
What I hear you say is don't be afraid of
(10:03):
exploring that and really getting a better understanding, because I mean,
I have work in professional services. I submit a proposal
out there in the past before AI and I and
we didn't win the work, and we understand. But now
I could maybe anticipate that what you're saying, develop us
work through that, anticipate what some of the objections or
questions might be before we even actually send it out there.
See what you know.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Learn absolutely. Let's suppose you have a past proposal that.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You you would use as you're the new thing. You
would literally have a conversation and say, hey, I'm thinking
about submit I'm looking to submit a new proposal.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I like you to take a look at the old proposal.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm going to be loaded up and then say this
particular situation is this, I'm worried that I'm not got
the right messaging or I'm worried that I've got too
much or too little.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
You help me think through how I might with the
good things in the proposal, what are the bad things?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And here's the kicker. You can also go what are
the implications of the next steps, Like if the customer,
if the proposal is asking for this, what might be
things I think they're looking for this? What other things
might they be looking for that I haven't yet thought about?
(11:22):
As just simply asking that question. Even if the answer
is not perfect, right, that's not the point. You have
an answer and you'll be able to react to it.
But when you're the only person doing all of the
thinking and all of it gets tired, it gets so
you have a you can have a conversation with the
AI and that's the real point. You're co thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, I love that. Now. Before we recorded the podcast
up United conversation and a couple things stood out to me.
And when you're talking about layers that we have within
organization of individual tools, organizational kind of intentionality, and then
the enterprise efficiency if you will, could you kind of
break that down for me and for our audience.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, every First off, every company whoever owns the company,
they have and they have they have a reason for
owning the company, right company serves. They have some intentionality
around what the company is supposed to provide. You know,
we intend to be the best in this industry. We
be intend to be the best in that industry, or
(12:30):
we put customers first. And the reason we have it
is we want to have a lifestyle business, or we
the reason we do it is we want to get
venture capital and sell it to Silicon Valley and retire
and go on the beach. Everybody has a core intentionality
or I just want to put food on the table
for my families to go college. That's very important.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Every person has that. But the business exists a serve
everybody's needs.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And so in the business, when you start thinking about
your business, I always break down, there's the CEO, the
C suite, maybe director, salespeople. They all fit in a
different place and you each have different roles. And so
you can actually use the term I use a digital
twin your co thinker.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh yes, yes, And.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
You could have a co thinker. I believe every person
has a you should have a co thinker that helps
them with your job.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
The thought partner knows that your job.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
They know where you're fit, they know what you're supposed
to be doing, your objectives, what.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You intend to do, or your intentionality, and it helps
you think through those.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I even think it should be on the ORG chart.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, Yeah, I love that well. I love the idea
of a code thinker because I see this in an organization,
particularly small organizations developed and I think this is I'd
love to get your thoughts on this with AI. If
you develop a code you know thinker this, you know
this using the AI, if something happens to that individual
in the organization, they get sick, they're out, they need
to take vacation, maternal leave. If you're developing, and I
(14:04):
see where you can get value and say, I've got
some questions for you that you're gone, you're the person
is gone, but I can can I get some understanding
of how to do you payroll of the invoices or
something's missing? You know, And that if I have that
well developed within the organization, can be very powerful, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I Yet, yet I hadn't thought of that, But yes, absolutely,
you the more these systems are adding memory to their capabilities,
they know a lot of that stuff and as you
start putting in the information, it has a body of knowledge.
So if you're you're the payroll person and you're putting
(14:39):
in all the payroll stuffs, it can co think with
you how payroll and help you with those sorts of
things as well. But but it's the parts. Those are
some of those are the mechanical parts, but there's a
lot of things like how do I handle that difficult
person I'm doing cols, what are the strategies I've never
done this before?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Can you help me through this? How much role play
this difficult person?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Those are great ways.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
To use AI as a as a helper.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Right, Yeah, No, you're you're speaking my language, Philip, because
that's part of what I do with Steward your business
is organizational health and giving them some tools to start
working through that. And then I come in as a
coach and we work through some things and elements and
consultant as well. But I think getting you going absolutely,
I think it's a great perspective, Philip, of like how
do you use those why follow up question I guess
(15:34):
to the the to the co you know, creating this
digital twin if you will, how do you because I
could see this could be a little bit of a
trap if they're not prepared for this or thinking forward enough.
L how do you help avoid leaders avoid the trap
of maybe being siloed, meaning everybody kind of using their
own Like you said, it's free, I'm gonna go pick
JAM and I'm gonna go pick copilot, I'm going to
pick chat GPT, so they're all starting their own little
(15:56):
conversations if you will.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, So that's always back to the Yes, that's the
little bits of governance that's around the government, best practices
around governing and managing your business. You always want to
have some thoughts as to your what's your AI policy.
It doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't need to
(16:18):
be you know, incted blood, but it's the guidelines, like
we prefer this tech technology so that we can all
share best practices for this technology doesn't prescribe people. It
also depends on the type of business you are. Like
I for most people seem to be overly worried about
(16:40):
the privacy piece.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, complete, but you stop.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And think about it. Who's really, really, really trying to
steal all your ip Like if I am the largest
of pharmaceutical companies and I have a secret formula. Really,
they're not trying to steal a secret formula as much
as they're trying to steal like my marketing plans. When
(17:06):
am I going to market my produgt and and those industries.
They're naturally careful, so they they'll talk. They have their
own they're big enough they they buy their own services
and say, use my use only the approved company services
to deal with these sensitive topics. But it's the same things.
They're smart enough to go. If I call them up
(17:27):
on the phone, say tell me your secret formula, they'll go, no,
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I think people for some reason over worry it. But
if I'm a if I'm an I don't know why
I'm accountant. So if I'm an accounting firm, right, how
many ways are the new entry of of recording an entry? Like?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Is that a secret?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Do I worry about it? No?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Nothing proprietary there.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, well you brought so we talked. You have a
lot of experience. We just talked about governance. I'd love
to get in there because you work with a private
director association, another you're helping boards, you know, so whether
you actually have a full on board or you know,
something smaller in your business, how should they be thinking
about that from a you know, a governance perspective, leadership perspective.
(18:22):
I mean there use the secrecy is definitely one of
these sues you're bringing up. But how and how they
look at strategy and how they're they're running their companies.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Perfect, Let's let's level set a little bit here, because yeah,
so governance is a fancy weird you know, realistically, the
governance is what are.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
We going to do? How are we going to run
this business?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And and most people they have a sense of what it.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Is like We're going to be honest, we're gonna be ethical,
we're going to be caring, we're gonna we're going to
tell people what we're doing and you know, meet our word.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You know, they they have that sense.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
When companies get super duper duper large, that gets more
and more challenging because you end up dealing with more governments.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
You might be dealing with Europe or you know, and
so you have.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
A lots more regulations because different countries have different and
it gets a mess. But at the end of the day,
the top of the business of the board, they're dealing
with a strategy, like what is our business? Do we
expand over here or not expand over here? What's going
to happen when let's imagine we have a future where
(19:37):
we have robots. You know, we have cars now, maybe
we want robotic driving cars. What might that look like?
That's strategy, right, But you know if I have a
robotic car, the tactics might be how do I repair
the car? Right? Those are tactics, And so the big
thing for small companies is to is that's where the
(19:57):
cothinking is really important. Are you working on the business,
which is the strategy, or are you working in the business,
which are all the tactics?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
M right, yeah, well, and I think it's easy. It's
most time I find, at least especially small businessors are
working a lot in the business and they're not spending
enough time on the tactics. And where do you see?
You mentioned the digital twin? Where do you see you know?
And the strategy perspective?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Philip? Is it?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You know you mentioned asking questions and some things with
clients and customers, But what do you see as a
leadership perspective, how we can better use AI and making
those strategic decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, so here's a here's a here's a great one.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I use a lot of times. There's two things I
asked people.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
One is.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
What a lot of people look at the risk of things.
I said that we don't.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Need AI, We're going to go slow, We're going to things.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And I asked the question, what happens if you're the
last person in your industry to you start using these technologies?
What what does that do to your business? And what
would happen you were.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The last one to get on the train or start even.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Working right, especially it's just and then the second question
I usually ask, how would you completely reimagine your business
in the age of the jetsons, uh to like the
compute future where you have the iron Man Jarvis answering
your questions and doing your business for you?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
What would that look like? And now it's it's it's like,
would you be in business right?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I don't know, Like there was a point in history
when taxi cab the gold yellow medallion in New York,
you know, and then Uber comes along and takes eats
their lunch right now.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, right, things will change.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's always been true.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Smart businesses are thinking about how what is going to
happen and planning out the answers, like practicing how they
would make the decision.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You don't need to make the decision today because it
hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, what would.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Happen if we could redo our business?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
What AI startups are coming.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
For our business? Right?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I love as you're as you're saying that example of
the taxis Philip. What came to mind for me was, uh,
Netflix and Blockbuster, Blockbuster being the biggest video right, they
were there, they were the top of the heap. Yeah,
and then they were, oh, we'll do streaming, but it
was already too late. Netflix had already got their foot
in the door. They already and they did it kind
of step wise. They said, we'll mail you whatever DVD
(22:48):
is back and the day for those people that remember this,
But and then they went to streaming, and then they
and then they the Blockbuster is no more so to
your point, and I think more than ever, I love
your thoughts on this. I was talking with another colleague yesterday,
but you know, AI is here. It's not like in
the past. Where we had different softwarees. We want to
it's kind of thrust upon us, if you will. So
(23:09):
you know, like you said, you kind of ignore it
at your own peril.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Right, yeah, So I'll use this analogy for a lot
of us like you and I. We've we've lived enough,
like we've seen technology come and go. And I just
wrote an article, you know, the express express train ticketed
passengers only somebody was suggesting that this change is you know,
(23:35):
just suck it up. You know, the change is no
big deal. Right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, I went through the dot com, I.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Went through the iPhone, through all these things, deglobalization, the.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Collapse of the Berlin Wall, all these.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Things in my lifetime, right and I go. And so
I could say, hey, mister new person and with AI,
just suck it up. It's just changed, no big deal.
But what I will say is now put that entire
lifetime of change into the next five years. Okay, now,
(24:11):
what is your business again? That's scary, it's scary, But
what're not so scary.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Is this technology lets us.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Do what we're really really good at, which is being creative,
inquisitive humans, figuring stuff out and taking care of people
and working relationships and helping customers and helping them solve problems.
We're good at that.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There were eight billion people on the planet good at it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yes there's problems, don't get me wrong, there's problems, but
you know, if we were not very successful at it,
we might have maybe one hundred million people on the planet. Right,
So we've done something reasonably well and we need to
get better.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So I tend to be a I don't always look
at the bad stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I'm a pragmatist that says, you know, yes, there's room
to improvement. Absolutely, But I'm also a believer this technology
can use those of us to Again.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I don't have to learn how to be a grammaratist grammatist.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It just helps, does it for me?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah? No, Well, I love I love your perspective, and
I appreciate the the the positive voice to see things.
I mean, the reality of what you're saying is the
gravity of that. I think it is important that we
kind of take that to home. But what I had
I had a conversation on a podcast recently a gentleman.
We were talking he does SAP enterprise users signing us off.
(25:37):
We were talking about this and he he We're talking
about how technology and AI specifically, we feel that it
could help make us better people. But from your perspective,
how do you you say AI can accelerate or amplify
maybe a return to more authentic relationships. We've had a
break down there. We were more connected, but I think
we're still missing the authenticity that of being truly known
(25:59):
and having the deeper relationships. Unfortunately, our world is a
broken world, but we've done some better things. How do
you see this helping us in that space?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think there's a very deep question. But the more
that some of this drudgery is taken care of, and
the more that there's transactions, I think we then are
very It's very obvious when we get a great relationship,
(26:29):
it's much easier to say, all, Wow, I really made
a connection to that person. I really made an impact.
And I believe once as we start seeing the impact
on that like I belong. As you mentioned that the
Private Directors Association and that organization, you could argue professional
organizations have had a very difficult time through all the
(26:53):
new content on YouTube and everything else. What makes that
organization work is the personal relationship ships, all the connections
and all the opportunities to talk and help each other
and talk about all the changes that are occurring that community.
I believe that we've come through this phase of discounting community,
(27:15):
discounted relationships. AI is going to make it, give us
more time to recognize those relationships are so important. And
I believe that we'll as we get we'll go back
to what we want. I'm I'm scared. I'm worried. Oh,
let me help you. Right, that's a relationship, and so
(27:35):
I think we'll go through this weird period, but I
think we'll find more of that authenticity as we come
out and figure it out. Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I mean, I'm encouraged to hear you say that, Phillips,
of all the research and where you're at on things.
And again, you guys check out AI. He's got on
subsectly what over one hundred and thirty thirty five articles
you said, the.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Thirty articles, and the big big push right now is
the Craft Thinking and that will be launched.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's a proper book turned into a book.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Come to you.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I got it over to the editor to help me,
a real life human editor.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Right, I did. I did the manual stuff, but he's
gonna do tell me. I'm all stupid or not.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
It encourages me as one that's you know, my passion
is bringing people together to accomplish great things, to bringing
that human connection. I feel like to your point, Philip,
I think our human experience we are designed, and I
believe you know we have an innate draw within ourselves
to connect with each other. We have this podcast, you
and I are connecting. We're sharing it with the world,
(28:39):
and we want in the in the attempts that we
can reach more people, but because we want them to
connect and we want you as you guys are listening
to this. If you guys have a question or comment,
please put in here or we'll get it to Philip
so he can respond. Philip and I are connected on
LinkedIn as well, reach out connect. He's been great, he
was really responds to me. I got to meet him
because this is beautiful, Philip, because I know I saw
you were going to speak at the event, I reached
(28:59):
out to you on LinkedIn. I got to talk with
this guy, and then I got to meet you in
real person in the event and here we are on
the podcast. I think it's a beautiful thing and I
so appreciate having you here.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Absolutely It's been great to have the conversation and share
a little just a little bit of folks.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I'd love to have any other conversations out there.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Make my promises to everybody. I hope to shorten your journey.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
As we're as we're getting wrapping up on the podcast,
and Philip, I would love to have you back, and
we probably have to have another roundtable because I love
the one that you did on your on the panel.
Uh last was last month. You know what if if
you know, if they listen, is if we have leaders,
business owners, folks that are up and coming and using
you know AI, you know what would you say? Okay,
(29:44):
if nothing else, would you practically say, Hey, where do
I begin or where should I just look at or
evaluate so that I'm the future ready, that I'm prepared
for what it's like you said, it's here, it's coming.
How do I just better equip and enable myself to
to co think with this ada be in a better
place going forward to two things.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
One is give yourself grace. Anytime we're learning something new,
it feels weird, squishy, uncomfortable. Am I doing it right?
Am I doing it wrong? What's the best? And as
adults were worse than that. So channel your channel, your
two year old, but why, like, how does this work?
(30:29):
And so that's the first thing. Give yourself grace and
then just use any of the tools. I don't care
what tool you use, typing or speaking into it and
saying I'm new to AI, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
In this industry, this is my job, this is what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I want to learn how to use AI for whatever reason,
or I don't even believe it's right, help me understand
and start having a conversation with it. And then you
can ask what tool, what products should I use? To
what training courses should I do? It'll pretty course, will
it be perfect? No. In fact, you might think a
(31:09):
course that sucks, that's okay, but you'll learn just like
you did on the bike.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's not the learning style for me. So one step
at a time, as.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Opposed to living into the fears of, oh it's too
fast for me, I'm just going to retire out because frankly,
if you're even at the retirement age, you've probably got
twenty years of life afterwards that you could do so
many things on a big impact on the world. And
here's a tool that can.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Leverage your abilities and gifts for everybody, So.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Just get started.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Man. I love that fella. Thank you so much for
being here on the podcast with us. I hope you'll
come back again. You just give us some great insights.
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me love
it well awesome. Of course we love having you guys.
Subscribe and follow along. Leave your comments. We'll make sure
we get those to fill up.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Leave a review.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We appreciate your five star reviews. Sharing this with your colleagues.
Come back into the next episode of the Business Round
People podcast. Thanks ever everybody for listening. Until next time,
be well. Thanks everybody threat here
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