November 20, 2025 • 31 mins
How do you tell stories that move people to action?
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Jennifer Crosswhite, founder of Tandem Services and an award-winning writer, editor, and ghostwriter. Jennifer helps leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals harness the power of storytelling to communicate with clarity and impact.
Jennifer shares how her career as a novelist and editor shaped her ability to help others craft authentic, engaging narratives that resonate with audiences. She explains why the story is the most powerful tool for building trust, influencing decisions, and leaving a legacy in both business and leadership.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Connect with Jennifer Crosswhite:
Website: https://www.tandemservicesink.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifercrosswhite
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
In this episode of the Business Roundtable Podcast, host David W. Carr speaks with Jennifer Crosswhite, founder of Tandem Services and an award-winning writer, editor, and ghostwriter. Jennifer helps leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals harness the power of storytelling to communicate with clarity and impact.
Jennifer shares how her career as a novelist and editor shaped her ability to help others craft authentic, engaging narratives that resonate with audiences. She explains why the story is the most powerful tool for building trust, influencing decisions, and leaving a legacy in both business and leadership.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why the story is the secret to capturing attention and building connection
- How to translate complex ideas into narratives people remember
- Common mistakes leaders make when telling their story—and how to fix them
- Why story-driven communication is critical for influence and brand growth
- Practical tips to refine your message and connect with your ideal audience
Connect with Jennifer Crosswhite:
Website: https://www.tandemservicesink.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifercrosswhite
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/business-roundtable--6049255/support.
Watch more episodes on YouTube and subscribe here:
https://www.youtube.com/@steward_your_business
Connect with Steward Your Business:
Website: https://stewardyourbusiness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwcarr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome back to the Business round Table podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr, a founder of Steward of Business bringing people
together to accomplish great things, and I'm super excited to
have a brand new guest on the podcast. Before we
get in there, I want you to think about all
the time that you spend every day trying to meet
different people, all this energy you have. And I have
Jennifer on here because she's got a way of reaching
(00:36):
people twenty four to seven more further than you can
ever get, I think, and that's through the power of
a book. She's spent more than twenty years helping leaders
and coaches and entrepreneurs capture their story and expertise and
really help build their credibility, extend their influence, and really
help them scale. Jennifer, you are welcome to the podcast.
(00:58):
Super excited to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks so much, it's great to be here. I love
talking about books, I love talking about entrepreneurs, and I'm
really excited to talk about the two of them and
how they can help each other. So I think it'll conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, I'm you know, Jennifer, you have been again a
book coach, you've editor, your author, of like I think
fifteen plus books. You've guided literally one hundreds of people
through this process. And so talk to us about your
background and you founded Tandem Services. You're the CEO of
(01:30):
Tandem Services, and now you've been doing this for a
number of years and you've done this, and talk us
through your journey as a business owner entrepreneur yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, I started way back in the day just as
an author. I loved books, I loved writing, I loved
all of it. I loved communicating. I have a degree
in business and literature and history. It's kind of a
weird combination. And how do I make all those things
work well together?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Writing and communicating a great way to do that. And
I actually spent quite a bit of time in traditional
publishing seeing how everything worked from the back end. But
I always had an author's mindset. I was always looking
at it in the through the lens of an author,
and how does this benefit the author? And what can
the author do to get their book out there? Because
(02:19):
the publisher they've got you're just one of many projects
that they've got running, and they only have a limited
amount of time and resources and attention to give it.
So what do you do once your book has launched,
And so that was something that I was always kind
of aware of in the traditional world. And then almost
twelve years ago, I went out of traditional publishing and
(02:42):
went out on my own. I had a lot of
people asking me for help and advice, and I had
kids going into junior high school, which is not a
fun season of life for anybody. But traditional publishing is
long hours and trying to juggle all of that, and
I thought, well, goodness, I've got enough people coming to
me on the side that I could help and do
(03:02):
a better job if I was ahead the time and
energy to focus on that. And so here we are,
almost twelve years later, working with hundreds of authors and
expanding what I'm able to offer them and help them
and navigate through the process. And now self publishing has
become really the option for most entrepreneurs. It's going to
give them the most control and help them accomplish what
(03:25):
they need to without all of the sort of restrictions
that traditional publishing puts on books and the whole publishing process.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
M H yeah, no, I think it's so great to
have that background. So you are an author, I love
you have a very background like me. Jennifer, which I
love and that you bring that I'm sure helping and
guiding and coaching your clients because I think, you know,
like many of us, entrepreneurs will get into this a
little bit about their like intimidated like I've never written
a book.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I don't know how to.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Do that, and so you've gone through this yourself, and
now you're seeing like how can you do this? And
I think, like you said, the landscape has changed a
lot of people. Traditionally were trying to go through and
pitch a book and trying to get a major you know,
I know you worked for Dondrman and others of trying
to get a major, big publisher.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But now this option of self publishing and there's it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Seems to me there's less barriers, but you still have
to have somebody guiding you through to make sure you're
taking the right steps exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Now the gatekeepers are less the publishing house and the
agents and it's more the readers, which is really where
it should be. I mean, the readers should be the
ones who are making the decision and as you can
get in front of your ideal reader, which is it's
a challenge to be honest it is. It's like with
anything an entrepreneurship. How do you get in front of
your ideal customer, your ideal reader often the same person,
(04:44):
but they should be the ones who make the decision
of if your message is going to resonate with them
or not. Likely what you're doing in your business already,
you have a lot of communication, a lot of content,
a lot of things, a thought, leadership, things that can
actually be you and repurposed. You don't have to start
from scratch. Most entrepreneurs don't. When they're writing a book.
(05:06):
They have some ideas, they have things they want to communicate,
and when you realize you really don't have to start
from scratch, you probably have a lot more than you
think you do. You just need someone to help you
format it, kind of get the structure in place, ask
the right questions, and get the process going. Then that
will get you down the road a lot faster, faster,
because if it's not your industry, how would you possibly
(05:29):
know all the things that you need to know, And
why would you want to go out on this whole
learning journey of something. Unless you're just curious and want
to learn, that's fine, But most other things they would
rather do then learn the whole publishing and releasing and
editing and the whole thing, and so having someone to
hold your hand through that, just like you would hire
an accountant or any other professional to help you with
(05:53):
aspects of your business you're not familiar with and don't
really want to be so right.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well for the so and I want to get into
the little bit more of that process. But maybe just
backing up a little bit, Jennifer, because you know, I
think before people may have thought, hey, it's going to
be too hard to write a book. You know, they're
there and there's so they're maybe spending time and effort
in different ways through you know, traditional marketing or networking. However,
(06:20):
why would they want to rethink that strategy, Jennifer. Why
might be a book today now be a better business move?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah. So there's one of the things that's really fantastic
about a book. I like to tell people it can
go around the world and it will touch people you
will never meet and you will never have the opportunity
to meet. It's a unique form of you know communication.
It's not something that someone will necessarily stumble across your
website or your social media posts or your ad or
(06:52):
even your podcast. Those are all wonderful channels and you
should absolutely use them. They're all different, though, and they
reach different people differently. Book is just one more way.
And the nice thing about a book is that this
is something that people tend to refer to other people.
Oh my gosh, I just read this book. It was
so great. You have to read it. Or One of
the things that entrepreneurs often do is they know they're
(07:14):
existing clients and they're saying the same thing over and
over and over again. And so if you put that
in a book, a lot easier to give to your
existing clients or your potential clients. If there's work that
your potential client needs to do before they interact with you,
or you want to explain some things that they need
to know before they work with you, the book can
(07:34):
be a great way to do that. I generally tell
people think of it like a ten dollars business card.
It's kind of expensive to put ten dollars per business card, right.
I use that number because that's about how much it
will cost you, you know, to have a printed copy
of your book. Generally, but if you think about a
ten dollar investment in handing that book to somebody who
(07:56):
can read your thought leadership where they can go in
a little more in depth than a quick conversation that
you could have. They have the ability to really interact
with you without blocking a zoom meeting on your calendar
or any of that kind of thing. All of a sudden,
that becomes a really good investment. You know, most of
us charge a lot more than ten dollars an hour
for our time. So being able to give someone that
(08:18):
book and use that as even a prequalifying way to decide, hey,
is this someone who's going to be a good client
or customer for me? That can be one fantastic use
of it. It also gives you some authority. There's certainly
this idea around people who are able to write books.
There is a certain amount of obviously thought process and
putting your thoughts in order, and so you have this authority,
(08:40):
and there's a way that it opens doors that you
just can't in other ways. And because there's a bit
of a permanence that comes with a book, and finally,
a book is a wonderful legacy to leave, you know,
I know most of us would love to have writings
from our grandparents, even if they were just you know,
diary entries, but how much more so to leave some
of your thought process and the things that you believe
(09:02):
and the things that you thought were important, and you're
guiding principles and those kinds of things to pass down
to generations. So it hits on a lot of different
ways that other communication channels don't necessarily hit.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, that's a great point. And I love that you
this example of the ten dollars business card. But you know,
I think people that are spending investing money in paid
advertising lessons she as an example, but this is a
different form of it. And like your point of reaching
other folks and having that legacy and folks that they
would never have ever received it otherwise. And I think
there is power. There's still today, even though we're in
(09:37):
the digital age of time. There's power in a physical
medium too.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I oftentimes I do read books digitally as well, but
I do like to have a copy.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
At times and I mark it up and I look
at that and I like to refer back to it.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I think that's that's powerful, you know as well.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And then when you're going and if like for somebody
like myself, I'm sure you work a lot of speakers
if they can take that with them and have copies
right to be able to share.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, if you are a speaker and you don't have
a book to sell in the back of the room,
you are leaving money on the table. Because once someone
has heard what you had to say and enjoyed it,
they definitely want to take that home with them and share.
It's the best way for them to share with someone
the experience that they just had is to take that book.
And of course a book you can go into much
more detail than you could go when you're speaking. It's
(10:24):
a great way to in lieu a fee sometimes, so
someone can't afford to have you speak, but you can
ask them to provide books for copies of your book
to everybody that's going to be there. So there's a
lot of ways, especially if you're a speaker, that a
book is a great tool to have in your toolbox.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah. Absolutely, so you know what, so this is great.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So if you're thinking about it and you guys want
to know more, Jennifer, We're going to have all of
our content ervation by the way, so you guys can
connect with We're on LinkedIn and such and leave comments
or feedback. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh,
I've got a question about this, Jennifer, just put it.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
In the comments. We're going to make sure she gets that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I know probably a lot of people now maybe
the wheels are turning and they're saying, Okay, this would
be a good idea, but like, like you said, I've
never done this before, how would I do this? Can
you walk them through a little bit about your this
process from the idea to an actual book?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Jennifer, Yeah, And I think this is where a lot
of people get stuck, right, I have so many ideas.
Where do I begin? How do I even start? And
I tell people do a brain dump. Whatever your favorite
method is. If you like a whiteboard, if you like
legal pads, if you like some of the mind mapping software,
whatever is your thing, just start throwing out all the ideas.
(11:37):
Spend a couple of days as the idea comes to
you in the shower, when you're driving or walking the
dog or whatever. Come back and put it down and
get it all out. Just tell you no rhyme or reason.
They can be big and small, doesn't matter. Just get
it all out. After you think you've gotten it all out,
then go back and look at it and start making
some connections. Which of these ideas kind of get grouped together,
(12:01):
which ones kind of flow naturally, and start thinking and
looking at those connections. This is where some of that
My mapping software is great, but you know, you can
take draw circle and draw lines and whatever. It doesn't matter.
You're the only person that's going to look at it.
And when you start seeing those, those naturally start becoming ideas.
You start seeing there's a little structure there. You start seeing,
(12:21):
you know, this is a completely different, like, this is
way different all these ten things over here, they're really
different than these ten things over here. So maybe there's
two books. Most entrepreneurs actually have more than one book
in them, And so that's part of the process that
when I have a conversation with someone is we're sorting
that out. What is this book and whatever? So you'll
start to naturally see some of those then start thinking
(12:45):
about pretty seriously, who is the ideal person for that book,
What is their problem, how are you going to solve
that problem? And what's the way you're going to help
them solve that. What's the transformation journey you're going to
take them on? As you start to answering some of
those questions, you're going to see, oh my goodness, I
have all those topics already covered. I have all those
(13:05):
ideas already covered. You're starting to create what we like
to call an annotated table of contents. It's just a
fancy word for an outline. Really, it's just kind of
an outline, and that's basically where you start.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Then at some point how much more detail you want
to go. You can just get more and more granular
as you go through the process. But the idea is
if you start trying to be granular and figuring out,
oh my goodness, I need ten pages of content for
chapter three, you will often short circuit the whole creative
process and get yourself kind of stuck in the editing
(13:37):
mode when you really should still be in the creative mode.
So doing that brain dump in advance and getting it
all out there, that helps get the creative process going
in The structural kind of naturally flow from that.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So I would imagine Jennifer as you're doing that and
you're coaching folks, and they've got ideas, because if all
your experience working with so many different authors, you're going
to be able to probably tease a part. What do
you think is going to be most meaningful? I would
say the test, like, how are we going to put that,
like you said, annotated, you know, outline table contents together
to like in a logical sense, because what I think
(14:09):
sometimes people will probably too at least for me. And
first I'm thinking, you know too, maybe two grand and
this is going to be like, you know, I'm a
big Star Wars fan.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I like George Lucas, He's like, I wrote this, you know,
I have this thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And he's like, it's nine movies and he's like, I
do the first one, right, So he was like, you
have this big idea, but then and having somebody to.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Come through and like tease it down and like actually
make it? Can we actually do this?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And what would be what is a reasonable time frame
Jennifer when somebody says, okay, we've got this kind of
broken down to actually taking this from idea to to
actually bring it to the book.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
What do you normally see as the life cycle of
that process.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I like to tell people plan on six months because
most people can set aside six months to work through
you know, you have to carve out some extra time, right,
you know, a couple hours on the weekend, or a
couple you know, half hour our slots during the day,
whatever it might work for you. You can't do that forever
because other things are going to come in and get
(15:06):
it in your way. And so I find that if
you stretch it too far beyond six months, people just
lose energy and they don't get it done. But six
months is a good enough time to get what you
need to done in a reasonable amount of time. And
it's not going to be a massive book, but it's
going to cover what you needed to cover in that
period of time. And then I always say, plan on
(15:27):
another six months for the editing and the formatting and
the publishing and the kind of the back end side
of things. So a year you can do it quicker.
For sure. If you've got a speaking date coming up,
you know, we can definitely work around that. But a
year is life gets in the way. You get sick,
you have a car accident, your house floods, whatever. Right,
(15:47):
we like to plan for those contingencies because they happen,
as we all know, and so that way you're not
adding one more level of stress to your life. The
goal is to not make the stressful, it's to make
it a benefit to your life. Those are my rough
guidelines for people I.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Would like and I would imagine, I mean, Jennifer, speak
a little bit as a coach yourself, because I'm a coach,
but speaking to the people, like you said, there may
be folks sometimes that are overwhelmed or they're perfectionists. I
know you love working with entrepreneurs in particular, but you know,
speak to like, how do you address the concerns are overwhelmed,
Like when they're like, okay, I started this and then
(16:24):
they start to get discouraged or you know, what's what's
your how do you guide them through that?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, I always tell people there's usually a point in
the process where you're like, I'm done. I cannot do
anymore with this. I don't know if I'm going up
or down, if my changes are good or bad, And
that's definitely time to bring somebody in to have some perspective.
And I think that's the biggest challenge that we have,
is that we are so close to our own work.
(16:49):
We have that curse of knowledge and having someone come
in and say, okay, you just use this phrase and
I have no clue what that means, let's break it
down for your reader much more grand allayer of things,
or this is a rabbit trail, I think that's actually
a separate book, or I really need you to stand
on this area. And so having someone with that outside
(17:11):
perspective is going to help you move through the process
and keep you from being overwhelmed. For many people, even
just sitting down at a blank page is overwhelming, right,
That's a really common problem, and especially if you are
wired as an entrepreneur to kind of be towards action,
it can really feel like this is too much. This
(17:32):
is I need to be doing something else. I can't
call my brain. And so working with a writing coach
is really helpful because a writing coach will take what
you've got, We'll ask you the right questions, we'll get
you moving forward. When I work with people, we decide
the chunks of writing that need to happen between our meetings,
and then I review it and I give them feedback,
(17:52):
and I give them an assignment for the next one.
So you're not having to come up with it all
on your own. You're getting some guidance and some structure.
You know. We do that in all aspects of our business.
There are many things that we don't you know, we
know we don't know how to do all that stuff,
and we are people to help us with it. So
I think this can be just one more of those
things where you just bring somebody in to help you
in an area that is not your strength, so you
(18:14):
can free up your time to go do the things
that you're.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Really good at right and keeping them on target. I mean,
you brought up entrepreneurs. I use a framework called the
five Voices Understanding your leadership voice. But I think you
get this concept, Jennifer, and I'm maybe an entrepreneur. I
call them a pioneer voices, very very they're very mission driven.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
They want to win.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But you have other people that are creative and they're like, oh,
these are all these possibilities that could be this, that
the other thing. So as a coach, you know, I
hear what I hear you saying, Jennifer, is you're listening
to that person where they're at, and then you're guiding
them and helping them where they need that strength. Maybe
the creators need a little bit more structure or like
myself or a connect I'm like that, but I need
that structure and the detail, the step by step, where
other people are like, I know the step by step,
(18:54):
but you talk after me, make thinking creatively or like
expanding my thoughts. It's very hard for them to do that,
So it sounds good where they're at.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think that's it's a really good point because there's
this misconception that only people that write books are creative
people or very academic people or whatever we have. And
I know people of every personality type who have written
books and can write books. And you're going to have
strengths and you have weaknesses in different parts of the process,
just like you do in any area of life. And
so having people come alongside that, and because I've seen
(19:25):
so many authors, I have a good sense of oh, okay,
I think what you need here is more structure, or
maybe you need more creative encouragement or whatever that might
be to help you get through the pieces that you
need so you can accomplish the goal. And really the
whole point is what is your goal? What do you
want to accomplish? And then okay, let's design the book
(19:46):
to create that path towards that goal. And if you
have a different goal at a different time, that's a
different book. So sometimes just keeping people focused and just
talking through what is the what is the goal, what
do we want to accomplish with this book? Then I
can say okay, well I can tell you how do
we need to get here, and here's the way to
(20:07):
keep on track that so we can get to that process.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I love that you brought that up, Jennifer, because you
began backing it up. You mentioned earlier in the podcast
we were talking about if you're a speaker and you're
you're leaving many of the teable and they're like, oh,
I have a book because I'm speaking at this event.
I want to have this, but there may be other
I mean you mentioned there's other reasons, and I think
getting clearer on what your goal is is probably going
(20:30):
to keep you motivated right to keep going to actually
get there.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Exactly, keeping focused. Like with anything, there are many parts
of our businesses that we do not enjoy, and so
having that goal and knowing why we're doing it right,
always going back to the why why are we doing this?
What is the purpose? What is our goal here? That
can help because there's a part in every single book
and yeah, every book that I've written too, I get
(20:54):
in there and there's a point every time where I'm like,
this is the worst thing I've ever written. I don't
know why anyone would want to read it, and you know,
you just it's just part of the creative process. And
so having someone to remind you, hey, it's not First
of all, this is fine, and we're going to keep
pressing towards the goal that we are focusing on, and
(21:16):
you know, you just need some of that encouragement to
keep you on that path, because yeah, there are parts
of it that are not fun and not easy, and
different those will be different things for different people. Some
people love the writing part, some people love the editing part,
or you know, vice versa. And so keeping focused on
that and keeping you kind of on the guard and
within the guardrails and back to your what is your
(21:39):
why and why are we doing this is the goal
of the coach right to keep you absolutely to your goals.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I'm curious, do you have a favorite story or an
example of working with the client where they got stuck
and like, hey, this was the goal and you walk
them through that and like ultimately what that was or
the book or I just love to hear different, you know,
experiences of people that you've worked with.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, it's interesting. It's not uncommon for writers to get stuck.
It's not and it often is around the eighty percent.
You know, you've done a lot of the heavy lifting
and then you get some of those life gets in
the way things and you get off track. And part
of my goal is to continue to come back to
you and say, okay, but we have an appointment set up. Also,
(22:25):
you're paying me money, and that tends to make you
a little more motivated to show up to your meetings.
And I think in some ways that's it's as simple
as that. You know, we set up our whole structure
ahead of time, so you know, these these are our dates,
these are when we're meeting, and you already have that
(22:46):
sort of blocked out. I think that really helps people
come through. And then especially with the fact that we
can change what we're doing. So I have a client
right now who is suffering from Parkinson's and so we
started as a coaching but because he's struggling with typing
(23:06):
now because of his tremors, we moved into a bit
of a ghost writing and so you know, we flex
because what needs to happen to get the book done
very so we got on zoom, we read through the
whole together. I made the edits as we were doing it,
and it was it just worked. And so sometimes you know,
we need to do something that's a little more customized
(23:29):
based on what's going on with the person's life and
things like that, and so it's pretty common that there's
going to be something that we have to work through
or overcome to get that done. And again it was
the same thing. He's very passionate about this book. He's
at the end of his career and this is his
passion and so remembering that he feels this is a
(23:52):
very needed book that that kept him going. He couldn't
see how to get around that hurdle, and I'm like, oh,
well here's how we fix it. This is Yeah, it's
a way. We have a way around that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I love.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I love how you're like, okay, there's we can be
creative and come other ways. Once somebody does, now you've
written multiple books, have you found the experience. Once they
have a positive experience, they've gone through this successfully, is
there like now they're like, oh, you actually did this,
Like maybe I might want to do another one, right.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean it varies it's interesting. Some people are like, no,
I'm not writing any more book SCEP for again, I'm done.
But most people are like, Okay, I can do this.
And and I will say every book is different because
you get into the next book and now your knowledge
you started at a higher level of knowledge, but then
you've put a little bit more pressure. You might try
(24:44):
to accomplish something a little bit bigger, and then sometimes
you're again you get into that certain part of the
book and you're like, this is terrible. Why did I
do this? Like it's okay, remember last time we got
through it. So I do think most people get once
they realize that they can do it, it kind of
opens up a whole new world of possibilities for them
(25:05):
because a book can be so many things. It can
be a short lead magnet, it can be a playbook.
It can be you know, your best tips for your clients,
things that you have worked really well for your clients.
There might be things that you only use with your clients.
There might be things that are geared more towards potential clients.
There's just so many options. And especially if you have
(25:26):
any kind of content, you own it. It's your intellectual property.
You can reuse it and combine it and make it
new in so many different ways. Expand it into a course,
make it into a private podcast series, make it into ebooks. Like,
there's a lot of things you can do with the content.
And so I think once people kind of get past
that hurdle, they have the idea of, oh my gosh,
(25:49):
I have all this other content, what else could I
do with it? And I think that is where you
start seeing the real economies of scale with repurposing, reusing,
and just makeing it do lots of you know, multiple
duties for the same piece of material.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
That's a great point that you're bringing up, Jennifer, And
I'd imagine sometimes maybe people feel like a book has
got to be this massive thing, but you're saying, no,
it doesn't have to be this massive thing. It can
You're breaking it down and making it practical and useful
for your ideal client.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Absolutely. I think part of the problem is we have
a bit of this mystique around books that they are
like this you know, final tome on everything that you
you know, this compendium of everything you believe, And I'm
just like, take one thing that's really cool that you
do and let's just talk about that, and you can
have that multiple times. But it doesn't have to be
(26:41):
like your whole lifelong compendium of your knowledge. It really
just one topic and one key point and that we
break down and one really thing that works really well
or whatever it might be. It doesn't have to be
as big of a deal, and I think a lot
of people get caught up in that. So breaking it
down into smaller, actionable things that that people can see
(27:05):
transformation and can get some benefit from right away, that's
what we want to kind of keep in mind as
we're thinking about the content of the book.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I love that, Jennifer, because I could see where again
I would be overwhelmed and like you're saying, Okay, what
is the goal, what's the best way.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
To reach that goal? How to break it down?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I mean even to the point where I know you've
written fiction and nonfiction books, and I think some people
maybe feel like it has to be only non nonfiction.
But maybe there's a reason why you could be fiction,
right right.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Fiction can be really fun. Actually know a couple business
owners they use fables and kind of storytelling techniques. If
you've ever read The e Myth, you know he has
that kind of idea in there too, or who moved
my cheese? You know, that's not uncommon in the business
world to use storytelling techniques and that and I actually encourage,
(27:54):
no matter what you're writing, to use story because people
really were wired in our brains to respond the story,
and so I highly recommend that regardless. But you know,
fiction is really powerful and a lot of fun, and
there's certainly people that have always wanted to write, you know,
the great mystery novel or whatever it might be, sci fi,
(28:15):
whatever your thing is. And I have a whole course
on writing fiction because it's it's fun. Yeah, And it's
a great way to explore those creative juices. For sure.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
That's something if you're having fun, right, it's enjoyable. It's
not a chore.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
It's like, oh, I get to do this, you're more
likely to be successful in getting that done. And to
your point, Jennifer, I found when I write, meaning just
even a little social media posters, anything out there, if
it's story driven, it's much more engaged than I do
just kind of you know, just some kind of I
don't say, more plain if you will, or just more
(28:50):
traditional maybe marketing speak.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think people are hungry for story right now.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
In particular, our brains are wired that way. We're wired
to survive and thrive, and we're constantly looking for information
on that and we are wired to get that through story.
And so if you think about you know, Esip's fables,
and every culture has stories that relay their morals and
their things, you know, Jesus speaking in parables, all these
(29:17):
things that are really important because we retain we retain
the message so much better when we can remember it
in a story. And so, whether you're using examples of hey,
this is a case study of a client, or this
is a before and after or one you know, a
bunch of stories, or one main story that goes all
(29:37):
the way through, it's a fantastic way to help your
readers see themselves and go, oh yeah, I've struggled with
that same thing. I know how that feels. What is
a solution to that? Because I haven't found it yet,
and they're going to stay engaged till they can figure
out what that is.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh man, I want to go longer, but I know
we're getting close to the end of the podcast. You
have so many great and and and folks, I hopefully
you're listening, whether you know, whether you're an entrepreneur or
just hey, do you have a story and it's been
burning in your heart? There to get out there. Jennifer
is a great resource. And maybe you know you knew
that there were book coaches out there, but absolutely there
(30:15):
is uh and and I'm super excited to have you here, Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
So we've covered a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I mean, those that are listening, what would you encourage
them to do maybe one step to move them closer
to getting that book out of them today? What would
you encourage them to do as we're kind of wrapping
up the podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, the brain dump. Do the brain dump I have
on my website and we'll have a link to that.
But I have a little resource called You Need a
Book and it talks about the brain dump process. So
I highly recommend that take some time, just put your
thoughts out and see what comes up.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Absolutely, Jennifer. We'll make sure we put all your contact
information in there. I think it's so powerful. I'm excited.
I've got my first book coming out of this this year.
We're working on that and I'm excited that maybe you know,
I'll get to do another one. We'll see we go
one thing at a time. But Jennifer, thanks for being
on the podcast sharing your ideas about how we can
(31:09):
do this and how we can get our message out there.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Thanks, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, thanks for having me anytime I get to talk
about books and entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Thanks everybody for being on the podcast. Here the Business
Roundtable once again of course like follow. We love having
you be a part of our journey and come back
into the next one.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Be well. Thanks everybody. By now
Welcome back to the Business round Table podcast. I'm your host,
David Carr, a founder of Steward of Business bringing people
together to accomplish great things, and I'm super excited to
have a brand new guest on the podcast. Before we
get in there, I want you to think about all
the time that you spend every day trying to meet
different people, all this energy you have. And I have
Jennifer on here because she's got a way of reaching
(00:36):
people twenty four to seven more further than you can
ever get, I think, and that's through the power of
a book. She's spent more than twenty years helping leaders
and coaches and entrepreneurs capture their story and expertise and
really help build their credibility, extend their influence, and really
help them scale. Jennifer, you are welcome to the podcast.
(00:58):
Super excited to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks so much, it's great to be here. I love
talking about books, I love talking about entrepreneurs, and I'm
really excited to talk about the two of them and
how they can help each other. So I think it'll conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, I'm you know, Jennifer, you have been again a
book coach, you've editor, your author, of like I think
fifteen plus books. You've guided literally one hundreds of people
through this process. And so talk to us about your
background and you founded Tandem Services. You're the CEO of
(01:30):
Tandem Services, and now you've been doing this for a
number of years and you've done this, and talk us
through your journey as a business owner entrepreneur yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, I started way back in the day just as
an author. I loved books, I loved writing, I loved
all of it. I loved communicating. I have a degree
in business and literature and history. It's kind of a
weird combination. And how do I make all those things
work well together?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Writing and communicating a great way to do that. And
I actually spent quite a bit of time in traditional
publishing seeing how everything worked from the back end. But
I always had an author's mindset. I was always looking
at it in the through the lens of an author,
and how does this benefit the author? And what can
the author do to get their book out there? Because
(02:19):
the publisher they've got you're just one of many projects
that they've got running, and they only have a limited
amount of time and resources and attention to give it.
So what do you do once your book has launched,
And so that was something that I was always kind
of aware of in the traditional world. And then almost
twelve years ago, I went out of traditional publishing and
(02:42):
went out on my own. I had a lot of
people asking me for help and advice, and I had
kids going into junior high school, which is not a
fun season of life for anybody. But traditional publishing is
long hours and trying to juggle all of that, and
I thought, well, goodness, I've got enough people coming to
me on the side that I could help and do
(03:02):
a better job if I was ahead the time and
energy to focus on that. And so here we are,
almost twelve years later, working with hundreds of authors and
expanding what I'm able to offer them and help them
and navigate through the process. And now self publishing has
become really the option for most entrepreneurs. It's going to
give them the most control and help them accomplish what
(03:25):
they need to without all of the sort of restrictions
that traditional publishing puts on books and the whole publishing process.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
M H yeah, no, I think it's so great to
have that background. So you are an author, I love
you have a very background like me. Jennifer, which I
love and that you bring that I'm sure helping and
guiding and coaching your clients because I think, you know,
like many of us, entrepreneurs will get into this a
little bit about their like intimidated like I've never written
a book.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I don't know how to.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Do that, and so you've gone through this yourself, and
now you're seeing like how can you do this? And
I think, like you said, the landscape has changed a
lot of people. Traditionally were trying to go through and
pitch a book and trying to get a major you know,
I know you worked for Dondrman and others of trying
to get a major, big publisher.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But now this option of self publishing and there's it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Seems to me there's less barriers, but you still have
to have somebody guiding you through to make sure you're
taking the right steps exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Now the gatekeepers are less the publishing house and the
agents and it's more the readers, which is really where
it should be. I mean, the readers should be the
ones who are making the decision and as you can
get in front of your ideal reader, which is it's
a challenge to be honest it is. It's like with
anything an entrepreneurship. How do you get in front of
your ideal customer, your ideal reader often the same person,
(04:44):
but they should be the ones who make the decision
of if your message is going to resonate with them
or not. Likely what you're doing in your business already,
you have a lot of communication, a lot of content,
a lot of things, a thought, leadership, things that can
actually be you and repurposed. You don't have to start
from scratch. Most entrepreneurs don't. When they're writing a book.
(05:06):
They have some ideas, they have things they want to communicate,
and when you realize you really don't have to start
from scratch, you probably have a lot more than you
think you do. You just need someone to help you
format it, kind of get the structure in place, ask
the right questions, and get the process going. Then that
will get you down the road a lot faster, faster,
because if it's not your industry, how would you possibly
(05:29):
know all the things that you need to know, And
why would you want to go out on this whole
learning journey of something. Unless you're just curious and want
to learn, that's fine, But most other things they would
rather do then learn the whole publishing and releasing and
editing and the whole thing, and so having someone to
hold your hand through that, just like you would hire
an accountant or any other professional to help you with
(05:53):
aspects of your business you're not familiar with and don't
really want to be so right.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well for the so and I want to get into
the little bit more of that process. But maybe just
backing up a little bit, Jennifer, because you know, I
think before people may have thought, hey, it's going to
be too hard to write a book. You know, they're
there and there's so they're maybe spending time and effort
in different ways through you know, traditional marketing or networking. However,
(06:20):
why would they want to rethink that strategy, Jennifer. Why
might be a book today now be a better business move?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah. So there's one of the things that's really fantastic
about a book. I like to tell people it can
go around the world and it will touch people you
will never meet and you will never have the opportunity
to meet. It's a unique form of you know communication.
It's not something that someone will necessarily stumble across your
website or your social media posts or your ad or
(06:52):
even your podcast. Those are all wonderful channels and you
should absolutely use them. They're all different, though, and they
reach different people differently. Book is just one more way.
And the nice thing about a book is that this
is something that people tend to refer to other people.
Oh my gosh, I just read this book. It was
so great. You have to read it. Or One of
the things that entrepreneurs often do is they know they're
(07:14):
existing clients and they're saying the same thing over and
over and over again. And so if you put that
in a book, a lot easier to give to your
existing clients or your potential clients. If there's work that
your potential client needs to do before they interact with you,
or you want to explain some things that they need
to know before they work with you, the book can
(07:34):
be a great way to do that. I generally tell
people think of it like a ten dollars business card.
It's kind of expensive to put ten dollars per business card, right.
I use that number because that's about how much it
will cost you, you know, to have a printed copy
of your book. Generally, but if you think about a
ten dollar investment in handing that book to somebody who
(07:56):
can read your thought leadership where they can go in
a little more in depth than a quick conversation that
you could have. They have the ability to really interact
with you without blocking a zoom meeting on your calendar
or any of that kind of thing. All of a sudden,
that becomes a really good investment. You know, most of
us charge a lot more than ten dollars an hour
for our time. So being able to give someone that
(08:18):
book and use that as even a prequalifying way to decide, hey,
is this someone who's going to be a good client
or customer for me? That can be one fantastic use
of it. It also gives you some authority. There's certainly
this idea around people who are able to write books.
There is a certain amount of obviously thought process and
putting your thoughts in order, and so you have this authority,
(08:40):
and there's a way that it opens doors that you
just can't in other ways. And because there's a bit
of a permanence that comes with a book, and finally,
a book is a wonderful legacy to leave, you know,
I know most of us would love to have writings
from our grandparents, even if they were just you know,
diary entries, but how much more so to leave some
of your thought process and the things that you believe
(09:02):
and the things that you thought were important, and you're
guiding principles and those kinds of things to pass down
to generations. So it hits on a lot of different
ways that other communication channels don't necessarily hit.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, that's a great point. And I love that you
this example of the ten dollars business card. But you know,
I think people that are spending investing money in paid
advertising lessons she as an example, but this is a
different form of it. And like your point of reaching
other folks and having that legacy and folks that they
would never have ever received it otherwise. And I think
there is power. There's still today, even though we're in
(09:37):
the digital age of time. There's power in a physical
medium too.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I oftentimes I do read books digitally as well, but
I do like to have a copy.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
At times and I mark it up and I look
at that and I like to refer back to it.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I think that's that's powerful, you know as well.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And then when you're going and if like for somebody
like myself, I'm sure you work a lot of speakers
if they can take that with them and have copies
right to be able to share.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, if you are a speaker and you don't have
a book to sell in the back of the room,
you are leaving money on the table. Because once someone
has heard what you had to say and enjoyed it,
they definitely want to take that home with them and share.
It's the best way for them to share with someone
the experience that they just had is to take that book.
And of course a book you can go into much
more detail than you could go when you're speaking. It's
(10:24):
a great way to in lieu a fee sometimes, so
someone can't afford to have you speak, but you can
ask them to provide books for copies of your book
to everybody that's going to be there. So there's a
lot of ways, especially if you're a speaker, that a
book is a great tool to have in your toolbox.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah. Absolutely, so you know what, so this is great.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So if you're thinking about it and you guys want
to know more, Jennifer, We're going to have all of
our content ervation by the way, so you guys can
connect with We're on LinkedIn and such and leave comments
or feedback. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh,
I've got a question about this, Jennifer, just put it.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
In the comments. We're going to make sure she gets that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I know probably a lot of people now maybe
the wheels are turning and they're saying, Okay, this would
be a good idea, but like, like you said, I've
never done this before, how would I do this? Can
you walk them through a little bit about your this
process from the idea to an actual book?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Jennifer, Yeah, And I think this is where a lot
of people get stuck, right, I have so many ideas.
Where do I begin? How do I even start? And
I tell people do a brain dump. Whatever your favorite
method is. If you like a whiteboard, if you like
legal pads, if you like some of the mind mapping software,
whatever is your thing, just start throwing out all the ideas.
(11:37):
Spend a couple of days as the idea comes to
you in the shower, when you're driving or walking the
dog or whatever. Come back and put it down and
get it all out. Just tell you no rhyme or reason.
They can be big and small, doesn't matter. Just get
it all out. After you think you've gotten it all out,
then go back and look at it and start making
some connections. Which of these ideas kind of get grouped together,
(12:01):
which ones kind of flow naturally, and start thinking and
looking at those connections. This is where some of that
My mapping software is great, but you know, you can
take draw circle and draw lines and whatever. It doesn't matter.
You're the only person that's going to look at it.
And when you start seeing those, those naturally start becoming ideas.
You start seeing there's a little structure there. You start seeing,
(12:21):
you know, this is a completely different, like, this is
way different all these ten things over here, they're really
different than these ten things over here. So maybe there's
two books. Most entrepreneurs actually have more than one book
in them, And so that's part of the process that
when I have a conversation with someone is we're sorting
that out. What is this book and whatever? So you'll
start to naturally see some of those then start thinking
(12:45):
about pretty seriously, who is the ideal person for that book,
What is their problem, how are you going to solve
that problem? And what's the way you're going to help
them solve that. What's the transformation journey you're going to
take them on? As you start to answering some of
those questions, you're going to see, oh my goodness, I
have all those topics already covered. I have all those
(13:05):
ideas already covered. You're starting to create what we like
to call an annotated table of contents. It's just a
fancy word for an outline. Really, it's just kind of
an outline, and that's basically where you start.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Then at some point how much more detail you want
to go. You can just get more and more granular
as you go through the process. But the idea is
if you start trying to be granular and figuring out,
oh my goodness, I need ten pages of content for
chapter three, you will often short circuit the whole creative
process and get yourself kind of stuck in the editing
(13:37):
mode when you really should still be in the creative mode.
So doing that brain dump in advance and getting it
all out there, that helps get the creative process going
in The structural kind of naturally flow from that.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So I would imagine Jennifer as you're doing that and
you're coaching folks, and they've got ideas, because if all
your experience working with so many different authors, you're going
to be able to probably tease a part. What do
you think is going to be most meaningful? I would
say the test, like, how are we going to put that,
like you said, annotated, you know, outline table contents together
to like in a logical sense, because what I think
(14:09):
sometimes people will probably too at least for me. And
first I'm thinking, you know too, maybe two grand and
this is going to be like, you know, I'm a
big Star Wars fan.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I like George Lucas, He's like, I wrote this, you know,
I have this thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And he's like, it's nine movies and he's like, I
do the first one, right, So he was like, you
have this big idea, but then and having somebody to.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Come through and like tease it down and like actually
make it? Can we actually do this?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And what would be what is a reasonable time frame
Jennifer when somebody says, okay, we've got this kind of
broken down to actually taking this from idea to to
actually bring it to the book.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
What do you normally see as the life cycle of
that process.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I like to tell people plan on six months because
most people can set aside six months to work through
you know, you have to carve out some extra time, right,
you know, a couple hours on the weekend, or a
couple you know, half hour our slots during the day,
whatever it might work for you. You can't do that forever
because other things are going to come in and get
(15:06):
it in your way. And so I find that if
you stretch it too far beyond six months, people just
lose energy and they don't get it done. But six
months is a good enough time to get what you
need to done in a reasonable amount of time. And
it's not going to be a massive book, but it's
going to cover what you needed to cover in that
period of time. And then I always say, plan on
(15:27):
another six months for the editing and the formatting and
the publishing and the kind of the back end side
of things. So a year you can do it quicker.
For sure. If you've got a speaking date coming up,
you know, we can definitely work around that. But a
year is life gets in the way. You get sick,
you have a car accident, your house floods, whatever. Right,
(15:47):
we like to plan for those contingencies because they happen,
as we all know, and so that way you're not
adding one more level of stress to your life. The
goal is to not make the stressful, it's to make
it a benefit to your life. Those are my rough
guidelines for people I.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Would like and I would imagine, I mean, Jennifer, speak
a little bit as a coach yourself, because I'm a coach,
but speaking to the people, like you said, there may
be folks sometimes that are overwhelmed or they're perfectionists. I
know you love working with entrepreneurs in particular, but you know,
speak to like, how do you address the concerns are overwhelmed,
Like when they're like, okay, I started this and then
(16:24):
they start to get discouraged or you know, what's what's
your how do you guide them through that?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, I always tell people there's usually a point in
the process where you're like, I'm done. I cannot do
anymore with this. I don't know if I'm going up
or down, if my changes are good or bad, And
that's definitely time to bring somebody in to have some perspective.
And I think that's the biggest challenge that we have,
is that we are so close to our own work.
(16:49):
We have that curse of knowledge and having someone come
in and say, okay, you just use this phrase and
I have no clue what that means, let's break it
down for your reader much more grand allayer of things,
or this is a rabbit trail, I think that's actually
a separate book, or I really need you to stand
on this area. And so having someone with that outside
(17:11):
perspective is going to help you move through the process
and keep you from being overwhelmed. For many people, even
just sitting down at a blank page is overwhelming, right,
That's a really common problem, and especially if you are
wired as an entrepreneur to kind of be towards action,
it can really feel like this is too much. This
(17:32):
is I need to be doing something else. I can't
call my brain. And so working with a writing coach
is really helpful because a writing coach will take what
you've got, We'll ask you the right questions, we'll get
you moving forward. When I work with people, we decide
the chunks of writing that need to happen between our meetings,
and then I review it and I give them feedback,
(17:52):
and I give them an assignment for the next one.
So you're not having to come up with it all
on your own. You're getting some guidance and some structure.
You know. We do that in all aspects of our business.
There are many things that we don't you know, we
know we don't know how to do all that stuff,
and we are people to help us with it. So
I think this can be just one more of those
things where you just bring somebody in to help you
in an area that is not your strength, so you
(18:14):
can free up your time to go do the things
that you're.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Really good at right and keeping them on target. I mean,
you brought up entrepreneurs. I use a framework called the
five Voices Understanding your leadership voice. But I think you
get this concept, Jennifer, and I'm maybe an entrepreneur. I
call them a pioneer voices, very very they're very mission driven.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
They want to win.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But you have other people that are creative and they're like, oh,
these are all these possibilities that could be this, that
the other thing. So as a coach, you know, I
hear what I hear you saying, Jennifer, is you're listening
to that person where they're at, and then you're guiding
them and helping them where they need that strength. Maybe
the creators need a little bit more structure or like
myself or a connect I'm like that, but I need
that structure and the detail, the step by step, where
other people are like, I know the step by step,
(18:54):
but you talk after me, make thinking creatively or like
expanding my thoughts. It's very hard for them to do that,
So it sounds good where they're at.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think that's it's a really good point because there's
this misconception that only people that write books are creative
people or very academic people or whatever we have. And
I know people of every personality type who have written
books and can write books. And you're going to have
strengths and you have weaknesses in different parts of the process,
just like you do in any area of life. And
so having people come alongside that, and because I've seen
(19:25):
so many authors, I have a good sense of oh, okay,
I think what you need here is more structure, or
maybe you need more creative encouragement or whatever that might
be to help you get through the pieces that you
need so you can accomplish the goal. And really the
whole point is what is your goal? What do you
want to accomplish? And then okay, let's design the book
(19:46):
to create that path towards that goal. And if you
have a different goal at a different time, that's a
different book. So sometimes just keeping people focused and just
talking through what is the what is the goal, what
do we want to accomplish with this book? Then I
can say okay, well I can tell you how do
we need to get here, and here's the way to
(20:07):
keep on track that so we can get to that process.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I love that you brought that up, Jennifer, because you
began backing it up. You mentioned earlier in the podcast
we were talking about if you're a speaker and you're
you're leaving many of the teable and they're like, oh,
I have a book because I'm speaking at this event.
I want to have this, but there may be other
I mean you mentioned there's other reasons, and I think
getting clearer on what your goal is is probably going
(20:30):
to keep you motivated right to keep going to actually
get there.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Exactly, keeping focused. Like with anything, there are many parts
of our businesses that we do not enjoy, and so
having that goal and knowing why we're doing it right,
always going back to the why why are we doing this?
What is the purpose? What is our goal here? That
can help because there's a part in every single book
and yeah, every book that I've written too, I get
(20:54):
in there and there's a point every time where I'm like,
this is the worst thing I've ever written. I don't
know why anyone would want to read it, and you know,
you just it's just part of the creative process. And
so having someone to remind you, hey, it's not First
of all, this is fine, and we're going to keep
pressing towards the goal that we are focusing on, and
(21:16):
you know, you just need some of that encouragement to
keep you on that path, because yeah, there are parts
of it that are not fun and not easy, and
different those will be different things for different people. Some
people love the writing part, some people love the editing part,
or you know, vice versa. And so keeping focused on
that and keeping you kind of on the guard and
within the guardrails and back to your what is your
(21:39):
why and why are we doing this is the goal
of the coach right to keep you absolutely to your goals.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I'm curious, do you have a favorite story or an
example of working with the client where they got stuck
and like, hey, this was the goal and you walk
them through that and like ultimately what that was or
the book or I just love to hear different, you know,
experiences of people that you've worked with.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, it's interesting. It's not uncommon for writers to get stuck.
It's not and it often is around the eighty percent.
You know, you've done a lot of the heavy lifting
and then you get some of those life gets in
the way things and you get off track. And part
of my goal is to continue to come back to
you and say, okay, but we have an appointment set up. Also,
(22:25):
you're paying me money, and that tends to make you
a little more motivated to show up to your meetings.
And I think in some ways that's it's as simple
as that. You know, we set up our whole structure
ahead of time, so you know, these these are our dates,
these are when we're meeting, and you already have that
(22:46):
sort of blocked out. I think that really helps people
come through. And then especially with the fact that we
can change what we're doing. So I have a client
right now who is suffering from Parkinson's and so we
started as a coaching but because he's struggling with typing
(23:06):
now because of his tremors, we moved into a bit
of a ghost writing and so you know, we flex
because what needs to happen to get the book done
very so we got on zoom, we read through the
whole together. I made the edits as we were doing it,
and it was it just worked. And so sometimes you know,
we need to do something that's a little more customized
(23:29):
based on what's going on with the person's life and
things like that, and so it's pretty common that there's
going to be something that we have to work through
or overcome to get that done. And again it was
the same thing. He's very passionate about this book. He's
at the end of his career and this is his
passion and so remembering that he feels this is a
(23:52):
very needed book that that kept him going. He couldn't
see how to get around that hurdle, and I'm like, oh,
well here's how we fix it. This is Yeah, it's
a way. We have a way around that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I love.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I love how you're like, okay, there's we can be
creative and come other ways. Once somebody does, now you've
written multiple books, have you found the experience. Once they
have a positive experience, they've gone through this successfully, is
there like now they're like, oh, you actually did this,
Like maybe I might want to do another one, right.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean it varies it's interesting. Some people are like, no,
I'm not writing any more book SCEP for again, I'm done.
But most people are like, Okay, I can do this.
And and I will say every book is different because
you get into the next book and now your knowledge
you started at a higher level of knowledge, but then
you've put a little bit more pressure. You might try
(24:44):
to accomplish something a little bit bigger, and then sometimes
you're again you get into that certain part of the
book and you're like, this is terrible. Why did I
do this? Like it's okay, remember last time we got
through it. So I do think most people get once
they realize that they can do it, it kind of
opens up a whole new world of possibilities for them
(25:05):
because a book can be so many things. It can
be a short lead magnet, it can be a playbook.
It can be you know, your best tips for your clients,
things that you have worked really well for your clients.
There might be things that you only use with your clients.
There might be things that are geared more towards potential clients.
There's just so many options. And especially if you have
(25:26):
any kind of content, you own it. It's your intellectual property.
You can reuse it and combine it and make it
new in so many different ways. Expand it into a course,
make it into a private podcast series, make it into ebooks. Like,
there's a lot of things you can do with the content.
And so I think once people kind of get past
that hurdle, they have the idea of, oh my gosh,
(25:49):
I have all this other content, what else could I
do with it? And I think that is where you
start seeing the real economies of scale with repurposing, reusing,
and just makeing it do lots of you know, multiple
duties for the same piece of material.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
That's a great point that you're bringing up, Jennifer, And
I'd imagine sometimes maybe people feel like a book has
got to be this massive thing, but you're saying, no,
it doesn't have to be this massive thing. It can
You're breaking it down and making it practical and useful
for your ideal client.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Absolutely. I think part of the problem is we have
a bit of this mystique around books that they are
like this you know, final tome on everything that you
you know, this compendium of everything you believe, And I'm
just like, take one thing that's really cool that you
do and let's just talk about that, and you can
have that multiple times. But it doesn't have to be
(26:41):
like your whole lifelong compendium of your knowledge. It really
just one topic and one key point and that we
break down and one really thing that works really well
or whatever it might be. It doesn't have to be
as big of a deal, and I think a lot
of people get caught up in that. So breaking it
down into smaller, actionable things that that people can see
(27:05):
transformation and can get some benefit from right away, that's
what we want to kind of keep in mind as
we're thinking about the content of the book.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I love that, Jennifer, because I could see where again
I would be overwhelmed and like you're saying, Okay, what
is the goal, what's the best way.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
To reach that goal? How to break it down?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I mean even to the point where I know you've
written fiction and nonfiction books, and I think some people
maybe feel like it has to be only non nonfiction.
But maybe there's a reason why you could be fiction,
right right.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Fiction can be really fun. Actually know a couple business
owners they use fables and kind of storytelling techniques. If
you've ever read The e Myth, you know he has
that kind of idea in there too, or who moved
my cheese? You know, that's not uncommon in the business
world to use storytelling techniques and that and I actually encourage,
(27:54):
no matter what you're writing, to use story because people
really were wired in our brains to respond the story,
and so I highly recommend that regardless. But you know,
fiction is really powerful and a lot of fun, and
there's certainly people that have always wanted to write, you know,
the great mystery novel or whatever it might be, sci fi,
(28:15):
whatever your thing is. And I have a whole course
on writing fiction because it's it's fun. Yeah, And it's
a great way to explore those creative juices. For sure.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
That's something if you're having fun, right, it's enjoyable. It's
not a chore.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
It's like, oh, I get to do this, you're more
likely to be successful in getting that done. And to
your point, Jennifer, I found when I write, meaning just
even a little social media posters, anything out there, if
it's story driven, it's much more engaged than I do
just kind of you know, just some kind of I
don't say, more plain if you will, or just more
(28:50):
traditional maybe marketing speak.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think people are hungry for story right now.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
In particular, our brains are wired that way. We're wired
to survive and thrive, and we're constantly looking for information
on that and we are wired to get that through story.
And so if you think about you know, Esip's fables,
and every culture has stories that relay their morals and
their things, you know, Jesus speaking in parables, all these
(29:17):
things that are really important because we retain we retain
the message so much better when we can remember it
in a story. And so, whether you're using examples of hey,
this is a case study of a client, or this
is a before and after or one you know, a
bunch of stories, or one main story that goes all
(29:37):
the way through, it's a fantastic way to help your
readers see themselves and go, oh yeah, I've struggled with
that same thing. I know how that feels. What is
a solution to that? Because I haven't found it yet,
and they're going to stay engaged till they can figure
out what that is.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh man, I want to go longer, but I know
we're getting close to the end of the podcast. You
have so many great and and and folks, I hopefully
you're listening, whether you know, whether you're an entrepreneur or
just hey, do you have a story and it's been
burning in your heart? There to get out there. Jennifer
is a great resource. And maybe you know you knew
that there were book coaches out there, but absolutely there
(30:15):
is uh and and I'm super excited to have you here, Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
So we've covered a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I mean, those that are listening, what would you encourage
them to do maybe one step to move them closer
to getting that book out of them today? What would
you encourage them to do as we're kind of wrapping
up the podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, the brain dump. Do the brain dump I have
on my website and we'll have a link to that.
But I have a little resource called You Need a
Book and it talks about the brain dump process. So
I highly recommend that take some time, just put your
thoughts out and see what comes up.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Absolutely, Jennifer. We'll make sure we put all your contact
information in there. I think it's so powerful. I'm excited.
I've got my first book coming out of this this year.
We're working on that and I'm excited that maybe you know,
I'll get to do another one. We'll see we go
one thing at a time. But Jennifer, thanks for being
on the podcast sharing your ideas about how we can
(31:09):
do this and how we can get our message out there.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Thanks, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, thanks for having me anytime I get to talk
about books and entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Thanks everybody for being on the podcast. Here the Business
Roundtable once again of course like follow. We love having
you be a part of our journey and come back
into the next one.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Be well. Thanks everybody. By now
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