July 17, 2022 • 62 mins
Bart Édes is a policy analyst, commentator, and author of Learning From Tomorrow: Using Strategic Foresight to Prepare for the Next Big Disruption (2021). He studies the rise of Asia, innovation, the sustainable development goals, and transformative trends reshaping the world. Since December 2020, he has served as a non-resident Senior Associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC, and was named a Distinguished Fellow at the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada in January 2021. In May of this year, he joined the faculty of McGill University as a Professor of Practice.
Born on the Canadian prairies in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Bart spent his formative years in the desert city of Phoenix. He has spent most of the past two decades living, working and traveling in Asia and the Pacific. Bart now makes his home in Montréal, where he resides with his wife, son and daughter.
Important Links:
Twitter account #1: @bigtrendsguy
Twitter account #2 @bartapest
Blog page: https://bigtrendsguy.medium.com/
Email account: bart.edes@gmail.com
Author of "Learning from
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/can-a-playa-play--3433224/support.
Born on the Canadian prairies in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Bart spent his formative years in the desert city of Phoenix. He has spent most of the past two decades living, working and traveling in Asia and the Pacific. Bart now makes his home in Montréal, where he resides with his wife, son and daughter.
Important Links:
Twitter account #1: @bigtrendsguy
Twitter account #2 @bartapest
Blog page: https://bigtrendsguy.medium.com/
Email account: bart.edes@gmail.com
Author of "Learning from
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/can-a-playa-play--3433224/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, yeah, old school, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Listening.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This ain't for everybody. Some of y'all need to hear it.
I know you're in the trenches fighting, but check it out.
I'm gonna put it down like this fight. Can hear
him the sings. Understand everything you're going through. It's all
part of the master plant or what you say, cause
you got saved. Everything was gonna be pictures with Queen.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You better wake up.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Son.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Don't nothing come to a super but pin worse? Is
it reach the firele? You know what he says, he
don't work do blackly don't get say it. Yeah, he's
just said.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
He hoops his hands.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
To the pot, looks back to say makes fit. Some
of y'all ain't been in the switch of five minutes
and you're not ready to quit.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I ain't mad.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm stenting you with the wheel. If you got from me,
I was still Now how do you think that makes
you feel? Check this out? He gas, this is ze huey.
I mean, y'all have sawing nothing, but your son is
trying to reach something. But I thought him, who was
there for the position of farmers fight his glory trumping
might be part of your testimony. But it ain't pay
to the stoke. Now I want to stuff's proper's side way.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Back in the day.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Why I sing the hook right here?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
See if the church get lay.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Working out, working up, we.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Worked it out, yes can yes he can. Think you're
not saying the fire reprover of just tr you. You say,
why you what your shirt? Say? What would Jesus do?
Why you're asking if you ain't trying to do what
he's saying. You told you he was gonna have timulations,
but you thought he was played one minute? You trying
to how good guy the be? Can't nobody missing talk
(01:34):
the next vintage of back fight so fast like your
moon walking. Oh yeah, I'm listening to myself that I
ain't no better. It ain't like I've been falling at
every word a man into the letter. But we're told
us we gotta remember that, we say yo, yeah, bout
down the say humble, let him annoy. It ain't even
as I thought it was. I've been lying up, I
told you, but it showed up being better all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Bus this that's the fast ain't.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
If we go U through the KP Hill, God put
that on this hub like they say, you can shop
now if you walk to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So why you go up?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
You're gonna be your time quo.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
We welcome, welcome everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
This is your host, Lamar Patterson. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for joining us. We definitely definitely appreciate it.
We know you could be somewhere doing something else with
your time, but in actuality, I'm gonna say, this is
where you really need to be.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I'd like to say, right here, right now, if you
have anything that's happening in your life that could help motivate,
stimulate on a positive note, that could really help the
people in this world in which we live with, I
like to hear about it. Hit us up. Our office
number is three two three nine five seven seven three
two two. Now, with that being said, we're gonna jump
(03:11):
into it. We're gonna get right into it. We got
a fantastic show lined up for you. We're definitely talking
about current stuff, stuff that's going on with everybody. Everybody
out there, no matter where you are, where you may be,
this thing is touching you definitely definitely. So let us see.
Let me see that all of us see as a
(03:33):
guess with us, mister bart edits are you with us.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Sir, Lamont, I am with you. Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Okay, yes, sir, I can hear you loud and clear,
and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We're very, very excited. You know, you got a whole
bunch of information to share with our listeners. Man, and
I would encourage everybody right now sit down somewhere and
get your note out pencil, you know, so you can
take down some of this information that's is gonna be
sharing with you, because that's what I'm doing, even though
(04:06):
we're gonna replay the show over and over again. And
if he didn't get it, you're gonna get it. Bart.
I'm sorry for really all, man, but I'm so excited
to have you on the show because I know this
is what everybody's talking about right today.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Lamont, you are too kind, and I would bet that
I'm twice as excited about being on your show.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Oh wow, well, I guess we're too excited. We're too excited, gentlemen, everybody,
So you know, if we stumble on something, please don't
over this the cowboy. You know what I'm saying. It's
just adrenaline running. But mister Edis he's a policy analyst, commentator,
and the author of Learning from Tomorrow, Using Strategic Foresight
(04:46):
to Prepare for the next disruption Like right Now. He
studied the Rise of Asia, innovation, sustainable development goals, and
transformative trends reshaping the world. Since twenty twenty, he's also
served as a non resident Senior Associate at the Center
for Strategic and International Studies in Washington Sea and was
(05:09):
named a Distinguished so at the Asian Pacific Foundation of
Canada and January this year twenty twenty. I. In May
of this year he joined us Facilic at the Faculty
I'm sorry McGill University as a professor of practice. That's
that excitement jumping out Mark.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Ye lament time, thank you for that intro. I'm speaking
with you and those who have joined us today from Montreal,
north of the border in French Canada, and it's it's
a real pleasure to launch into an exploration of some
big ideas in the midst of this pandemic and maybe
(05:52):
offer a couple of ideas on how we might come
out of it in a better place than when we
went went into it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That's great And for those that don't know what we're
speaking on is how COVID nineteen's changed our lives for good.
We're gonna go down that road first, So let's let's start.
Let's start there art.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
What COVID has changed in our lives? My goodness, and uh,
you know, we witnessed it firsthand, and everybody has experienced
it in a different way. In North America, you know,
there's been a lot of suffering, and it's been disproportionately,
you know, disadvantaged, marginalized, poor groups to have suffered the most, uh,
the elderly, Uh, you know, especially in the early stages
(06:40):
of the pandemic. So it's it's been a tough time.
And then economically, you know, in the labor market, a
lot of people have lost their jobs. What I do,
Lamont is I spent a lot of time looking at
big trends, and after we get through this difficult period,
I'm looking ahead to to what's going to happen next.
What are what are some of the things that are
(07:00):
going to stick around after COVID and what might be different.
And I'll throw a few provocative ideas that you just
to start and see where you want to go with
the conversation. But just a few thoughts on things that
went away in the last sixteen months.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And aren't likely to come back, or if they do come.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Back, maybe not in the same full force. So an
example I would say is is companies, big corporations that
are ambivalent about sustainability and work life balance. I think
companies have to take on more responsibility, care more about
their staff, and realize a lot of them are burnt
(07:42):
out and have been working from home and that's been
both good and bad. But on the good side, they've
appreciated the flexibility and time with life. So companies that
are kind of indifferent to work life balance or to
important sustainable issues like the environment, health, and social justice,
(08:02):
it's gonna be harder to not act in these areas.
And that's just one example. I'll give you a couple
other quick ones, maybe less less serious, but movie theaters.
You know, there's been a long term trend in the
US where cinemas have been closing and in COVID, obviously
a lot of them shut down at least temporarily, but
not all of them are going to come back because
(08:23):
we got into the habit of streaming, and yeah, sure
some of us will go back to the movie. You know,
for old time's sake, but it's not going to be
like before. Neighborhood mailbox is just one other thing that
we were familiar with for the last many years. Those
that started to disappear with greater frequency during the pandemic,
and a lot of those aren't coming back. So a
(08:43):
lot of little things are going to change, and some
bigger things like fertility. I'll just end on that note
for the moment. We've seen a constant decline in the
birth rate in the last six years in the US,
and last year, for as long as records have been kept,
we hit the lowest level ever, and so we may
not see a bounce back to the birth rates of
previous times as people worry about, you know, when we
(09:05):
see another pandemic or another big disruption that could make
life difficult if we've got family. Let me just pause
there and see what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh wow, Well, I'm thinking kind of like all over
the place. And I think one thought that's jumped out
in my mind is in regards to this pandemic, based
on some of the things that we know has occurred
in history, why did it seem like this country or
this government was so ill prepared.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Yeah, I think we're going to be asking ourselves that
question for a long time. And it's clear that the
government at all levels wasn't prepared. And you could say
that about you know, authorities, leaders and in most countries
around the world, and it wasn't that surprised completely that
we were going to have pandem Okay, you have these epidemiologists,
(10:04):
health experts who for years have been warning of the
possibility of a pandemic. Bill Gates, who likes to talk
on big issues, he gave a TED talk a few
years ago and warned we're going to see a pandemic.
And in the area one of the areas I specialize
in called strategic foresight, which is about trying to understand
where the future might go. There was a study came
(10:27):
out eleven years ago sponsored by the Rockefeller Foundation where
they outlined some possible scenarios for the future, and one
of them was a global pandemic that would see governments
introducing all kinds of restrictions, including on travel, that there'd
be more government surveillance, and that China would come out
of the crisis better than most other countries. That was
(10:49):
out of a foresight study done eleven years ago, and
then we saw a lot of that come true in
twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. So to get to
your question, we could have known it was coming, even
if we didn't know that the dates.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Or the month or the exact year.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Why wan't we more prepared? And I guess the short answer,
there's a longer one, but the short answer is a
lot of us, a lot of us are kind of
creatures of the moment. We have a lot going on
in our lives, right you know, we're taking care of
our family and our job and aspirations for learning and growth,
and it's and there's so many risks before us just
(11:22):
getting across the street, you know, or other challenges we face,
and it's a bit overwhelming when we don't have a
particular date in mind that a pandemic may strike in
the future. How do you get prepared for something like that?
Wrap your head around it. And it's whether it's in
the business community, or government or society more generally, we
sometimes have difficulty in preparing for changes that we're not
(11:45):
entirely sure or disruption. We're not sure when they're going
to hit, they're going to hit. In this case, there
was a pretty good idea. It was going to and
I can tell you Laman, it's going to happen again.
I can't tell you when, but there will be other pandemics.
There may be more or less beer hopefully less, and
hopefully one of the lessons we gain out of this
crisis is that we need to do better preparation. We
(12:08):
need to be ready to pounce uh and put in
place measures to to limit its spread and get it
under control.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But unfortunately, I don't think they got the memo right now. Still, yeah,
I don't. I mean because if you look at what's
happening right now, it's going out there with this new
delta variant. I still don't think they got the memo.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, scary when you think about it.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Yeah, yeah. You know, a lot of a lot of
the US has kind of gotten back to you know,
life's similar to the way it was in the what
I like to call the before times, before March and
twenty twenty, where we walked around Mass three and did
what we did. But the fact is, only about half
of the population in the US is vaccinated, and there's
(13:05):
now a problem of a vaccine hesitancy. So people, for
whatever reason, they're reluctant to get it, and that is
allowing this delta variance to spread. And the number of
COVID cases in America right now is rising following right,
So today I can tell you there's about thirty one
thousand cases a day seven days ago, eighteen thousand, fourteen
(13:29):
days ago, fourteen thousand, and about three weeks ago we
were saying two eleven thousand cases a day. So from
eleven thousand cases a day twenty one days ago, we're
now at thirty one thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And it's just as you say, the lize the spread of.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
This delta variance, and it's challenging a return to something
resembling normal.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I see it. They didn't get the memo, and
once it did is really not taken as serious.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And now we're going to be right, but we're gonna
be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Where we were a few months ago. It's not worse, actually, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
So the tragedy is, you know, again what I was
saying at the outsit, the people who suffer the most
from this are those you know, with the fewest means
you know, to to deal with it. These are h
you know, people struggling in jobs, maybe low paying jobs,
without job security and communities that have been hard hits.
(14:30):
It's if you've got if you're flushed with cash, you
don't you know, you find a way to work your
way out of most any problem. And so there's a
great when I'm saying is there's the inequality that existed
in the US before the pandemic. It was made worse
by this pandemic. And the longer it goes on, Uh,
(14:52):
it's poorer communities that are going to suffer more.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And that's that's just awful.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it is. And unfortunately, I don't know, man, I
hate to say it sound like I'm uh anti government,
but it seems like the powers that be aren't really
thinking beyond their playground. I mean, they say they are,
but it doesn't really seem like it. Like you just mentioned,
you know, the people in those areas, they're gonna suffer
(15:21):
the worse. There's nowhere around it.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Well, you know, I don't want to I don't want
to make this whole hour a real downer for.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Those who are tuning in.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
What we're saying is what we're seeing, right, you and
I are seeing and there's been a failures.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And just to ride to the gat on what you
just said. You know, Uh, if you want to be
lied to, this is really not the show for you guys,
you know. And you know I take pride and the
guests that we bring on on the show to be informative,
straightforward and give you guys real stuff. You know, and
you know, if you think the truth hurts, I'm sorry,
(16:04):
that's not what we're trying to do. We're just trying
to give you really food for thoughts, so you can
go forward with your eyes wide open, not wide shut.
So I just had to say that. Bo. Yeah, so
let's talk about your book. Let's talk about your book
a little bit, and then we can go forward and
hopefully somebody listeners. If you have any questions, or if
(16:25):
you got any comments, or would you like to join
any conversation, please feel free to die six four six
nine to nine twenty eight seventy eight press number one
on your phone and we'll be glad to let you
jump in. All right, I'm loving the conversation. Bart.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Well, so my Laman, and thank you for flagging my
new books. It's called Learning from Tomorrow, Using strategic foresight
to prepare for the next big disruption, and it's part
of a series of books that was published by a
fellow you just recently had on just one more in
the long series of really smart stimulating people with some
(17:09):
provocative ideas that you bring onto your show. And I'm
talking in this case about Tim Ward of Change Makers Books,
and he put together a series of books trying to
point a way forward where we could start to develop
a better world, you know, a more socially just world
(17:30):
where the economy wasn't just working or primarily working for
those you know in the one percent, and also addressing
major environmental issues and challenges, whether it be you know,
excessive consumption by consumers or climate change. And so series
(17:50):
of generally short books right to the point, with some
clear ideas to try and generate some action. And so
I was very fortunate to be invited to contribute here.
And basically what my book's about is the concept of
strategic foresight. And basically foresight is a it's a way
of a structure and systematic way of using ideas about
(18:15):
the future to anticipate in better prepare for change. It's
it's really about exploring different plausible futures and the opportunities
and risks that they could introduce and so using these
tools and methodologies of foresight, we can use the ideas
generated through the process to make better decisions and to
(18:37):
take action, and we can ultimately, you know, envision a
preferred future what do we want to move towards? And
generally foresight is used by different organizations. Some businesses use
a governments other organizations, and they use it in circumstances
of great change, of volatility, of uncertainty and trying to
(19:00):
get an idea of what's going to happen in about
ten years or more. So it's not for next quarter
or next month. It's a set of tools you're using
to try and get an idea what are plausible futures
ten years on and looking then at what are some
of these negative contential futures we want to avoid and
what are some of the good ones that we want
(19:21):
to work toward. And a nutshell, that's what it's about.
About one out of four fortune five hundred companies have
in house capacity doing foresight work. An increasing number of
US government agencies are using it, and there are universities
that are teaching it, like University Houston has a degree
(19:44):
program a Strategic Foresight. And because of the shock of
the pandemic and people were looking around it the changes
that we experienced in such a quick time, and we're concerned,
are concerned about what comes next. There's been a lot
of a new interest in this multidisciplinary approach to addressing
(20:05):
the future.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You know, Bart again, Well, you got my mind jumping
all over the place you touched on. The next question
was was this book for it? But actually it sounds
like it's for everybody. And what I'm hear in Bart
too is that these companies and these corporations, they're thinking
about what could happen in the future and one way
(20:31):
or the other. And it seemed like that's almost like
a common sense approach. If you're running a business, wouldn't
you want to like use something like you're doing. And
I like the systematic approach, and maybe everybody really really
need to gravitate toward that part, you know, because as
a business owner now, I'm always thinking about where I'm
gonna be in the future and what could it could
(20:54):
not happen and what'sn't happening in the past that I
don't want to see repeated regardless, I mean, does that
make any sense?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Yeah, it makes great sense. Lamont's and you're you're running
a successful ongoing business, so you obviously have to be
thinking about what could come next, good and bad. I
guess the nuance about foresight is it goes beyond what
a lot of businesses use regularly. So they, especially bigger companies,
they have their whole teams looking at risk management, and
(21:23):
they're obviously doing forecasting, so like what are our sales
going to be next quarter, or you know, what might
be a product we consider rolling out in two or
three years, But.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Not Keim, you mentioned something right there that you mentioned forecasting,
and I think that's what I kind of lost to
in what I was trying to explain. But forecasting with
thinking about the future using your tools kind of do
they kind of going hand in hand.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
They sure do, They sure do. And actually forecasting is
similar to and complementary to foresite, which is what I'm
talking about. The difference is forecasting tends to be more
of a shorter term thing. You can take it a
few years ahead, but it's often like, you know, the
weather service is trying to forecast the weather tomorrow and
(22:14):
next week, the you know, the company a big corporation
talking to its shareholders they're predicting what their profit margin
will be. Uh, you know, in a couple of quarters,
governments are trying to assess, Okay, what's water usage going
to be like next year, or enrollment in school, and
(22:34):
forecasting tends to rely on historical data and current numbers,
so it kind of projects. It extrapolates from what we've
already seen historically, whereas foresite, it does not aim for position.
There's no there's no a single prediction with numbers. It's
more coming up with scenarios, a handful of scenarios of
(22:58):
where things might go again with a longer time frame
typically not always, but typically a decade on. And so
you're not going to find numbers in the way of
a specific prediction, but a scenario that can alert you
to opportunities and risks and what you should be preparing
for in scenario like the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And if you explain that so very well, man, I'm
so excited to have you here. So so part, what
do you think do what new habits that people adopted
during a pandemic that you think is going to stick
with us?
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Well, I'll be also interested in your take on this, Lamot,
because you know a lot of us in these times
have been doing a little bit of self reflection. We've
had a little time to contemplate, especially in the lockdown period.
You know, where are we in life? What do we value?
You know, things that are important to us. So you know,
(23:57):
among the things that I think went away, and I'll
tell you about things that are going to stay. I
had mentioned about, you know, movie theaters, you know, not
disappearing completely, but kind of a down continuing downward climb
or fall, I should say, neighborhood mail boxing, imber.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I remember driving, I remember driving. Theaters used to be everywhere.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, Actually they got a little bit of
a boost in some places because it was outdoors. In
some places were allowing them during COVID as long as
people were spaced out socially distanced. But yeah, I don't
see those making a big comeback. But look, you know,
before the pandemic, the assumption was that if you're an
office worker, and let's keep in mind, not if already
(24:38):
works in an office, but there is a part of
the population that does. There's a sort of this assumption. Okay,
you're you get up in the morning at your coffee
and your driver you hop the train or bus, depending
on where you are, and you go to the office. Right, Well,
that assumption is gone, okay, because we have been working
from home again. Office workers those who can not necessarily
(25:00):
those in the frontline serving foods, living, haircuts, healthcare, whatever.
But for those going in office, we're not all going
back in September after Labor Day, right, There are going
to be new hybrid arrangements. And I could talk at
length about that. I won't for the moment, but just
to say this assumption that office workers work in the
office that's gone long. Pointless meetings. I'm hoping this is
(25:25):
a bit aspirational that those are mostly gone. Because people
had little less patients on Zoom, meetings tended to be shorter.
They also tended often to be more participatory, more people
could join in, and so it's going to be hard
to get people to sit through two hour meetings where
there's a lot of blah blah and they're not well organized,
right right, the meet and sleep yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
(25:51):
Something else I think we're done with is education and
training without a digital component. So I'm not saying we're
all going to be studying online, whether it's you know,
primary or secondary education, university or post secondary whatever. But
it's going to be hard to get away from a
digital component. So even as you know most schools go
(26:11):
back in September, they go back to school in North America,
at least you can expect that the experience with with
Zoom and with Internet and with all kinds of other
tools including virtual reality. Uh, we're going to see more
digital components in education and training and maybe one other
(26:32):
thing just about what's what's disappearing not coming back? I'd
say business travel. Okay, again it's not it's not black
and white, but it's we're going to see right now,
it's going to take a while to get back anywhere
near to the levels before because businesses realize how much
they could get done virtually. And you know, if you
(26:53):
want to travel, like to a conference or something that's
in person, you can have to make a pretty big
case because that's a big part of a com I
mean budget. So some firms where they absolutely need to
have interaction for sales, what have you. Okay, they're going
to encourage some people to go out on the road,
but I think a lot of organizations are going to
cut back on business travel.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, because it all goes back to that bottom line,
the dollar house spent where is spent.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Well? And you know you were asking also about so
what kinds of things are going to stick around? And
I gave a hint of that with the digital component
of education and training telehealth. You know, we had the
tools to do telehealth beforehand, but we were all accustomed
to going to the doctor if we had adequate coverage.
You know, that's the whole other issue is lack of
(27:44):
healthcare for many Americans. But you know, for those who
had it, they'd go see their doctor. And then in
COVID times, we had to work remotely, right, it was
either over the phone or over zoom or similar. Well, okay,
we're gonna start going back to doctor's offices. It's not
going to be like before. There's gonna be a lot
more use of telehealth, and there's pros and cons to that,
(28:05):
but it's it's sticking with us in part because doctors
like it. You know, whether they're billing, whether they're doing telehealth,
which is easier moving from one patient to the next,
and it's it's you know, it's it's it's easier for
the bit to work their way to recall in some
ways they're they're content with that, and health providers are
content with it, and and many people, you know, they've
(28:26):
gotten more use to it. Sometimes they really want to
see a doctor, but other times, you know, you don't
have to, you know, trudge across town and wait in
a waiting room with people coughing. Uh. There are some
advantages to tell health. So that's that's going to stick
with us. And you know, I want to try and
focus on the positive. My my whole interest in in
strategic foresight and kind of future thinking is that there's
(28:47):
a lot of dark scenarios, but I'm focusing on what
what can be some of the positive things, And so
talking about health a little bit, you know, and thinking
beyond the US borders. We've seen drones being you more
and more to deliver medicine and to provide patient sampling
in areas, for example, in African countries in rural areas
(29:10):
without access to hospitals took off during the pandemic. And
that kind of positive development where we're using technology to
help address health needs. This is something that's gonna ramp up.
And that's something that really gives me as something you know,
to be happy about. To be cheered that human ingenuity
and using technology for for good.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I had a question, man, it's kind of off the
cuff though maybe beyond another page. But I was just
wondering in regardless to water in some of these foreign
countries and stuff, with all the things that we see
on TV in terms of bad water, I was just wondering,
you know, we have the technology, there's the solonization facilities
(29:54):
on ships. You know, I'm wondering, why is it such
a big problem to get clean some of these places.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
Yeah, that's there's a whole host of issues there, and
it's it's it's a question that's kind of near and
dear to me them off because although I'm talking to
you from from a part of Canada that has a
lot of water, I mean it produces We produce a
lot of hydro power here, right, So the energy that
I'm using to charge my phone to speak with you
(30:25):
today is renewable energy. And that's something else that excites me.
But not every part of the world has that. And
you were really getting a drinking water. Well, My roots
were in the desert of Arizona. That's where I spent
my youth and in time since I left Arizona and
you know, the Southwest more generally, water crises have become
more severe.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Okay, so in that part of the world, you know,
you've had so much.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Water being used by these large farms and not always
very efficiently, so they've you know, the Colorado River in
some places is a trickle. Part of it is the
geography and the weather that the climate. Well you have,
you know, you have issues of water access. Climate change
is beginning to have an impact. We're talking about clean water. Well,
(31:08):
you have, for example, in South Asia and Nepal countries
that have there are there are ice caps and glaciers.
Those are fading and so you don't get the same
kind of runoffs and access to water now in other
places where you have lots of water, but it's not clean.
And this may have been what you were getting at.
(31:28):
Why why can't we provide clean water from a lot
of water.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Because like the Navy ships, the military vessels, you know,
they and salt water, they're cleaning it.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yeah, and something like seventy percent of our planet is water,
So what's the problem. You know, you're and a lot
of the world, a lot of the world lives within
you know, say fifty miles of a coastline near water. Well,
the short answer is it's those desalination exercises, initiatives and projects.
(32:00):
It's very expensive. You can do it. Countries are doing
you say, militaries are doing it, right, but it's really
really expensive. So so ProMED for Saudi Arabia, with its
oil riches, to have desalination plants. Right. Singapore, one of
the wealthiest countries in Asia, they're doing desalination right, and
they're also taking sewer water and they're cleaning it and
(32:23):
turning it back into drinking water. So it's the tech. Look,
short answer is the technology is there, It's uh, it's
where where is the market for it? Can the market
do it to a private sector? And whether the private
sector can't or won't do it? Is there is government
going to step in and do it? And then you
can ask yourself the bigger question the mont is you
(32:45):
know what inquires government's action? Who are there?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Whose influence the governments?
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Who? Right? You know? Is it? Is it the poor
people without access to water or anyway? Just dot dot
dot you get where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think everybody would A portion of a brain can
figure out the rest of that one. Yeah, well so
what so what you spent a lot of time in Asia?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Yeah, you know, this has been really formative in my
life experience that I mentioned a couple of places where
I'm living or grew up, but I spent most of
the last two decades in Southeast Asia, in the Philippines, Okay,
and which, among other things, exports a lot of people.
There are a lot of Filipino Americans, a lot of
(33:37):
Filipino Canadians who have moved over time, and it's I
had a fascinating experience that I was working for an
international development agency that was working not just in the
Philippines but across developing Asia. And actually my experience working
in that continent was a big stimulant, I think for
(33:57):
my interest in foresights and wondering about what the future
might bring, because Asia, in the time that I was
out there was going through one of the most dramatic
transformations the world has ever seen. Social technological economics, massive transformation,
(34:17):
fast growing economies. The poverty rate was declining, substantially, growing
middle classes. People were getting on airplanes and flying to
other countries. Whereas before there was an aspiration they couldn't
dream of. So just it's you know, we talk when
we think about Asia a lot of times, the talk
centers around China because it's the big influential, you know
(34:39):
it it's a superpower, right, But there's so much more
to the region, including countries of Southeast Asia. So there
I include not just Philippines and Singa, fourth countries like Thailand,
Indonesia and Malaysia, Vietnam and those ten countries that form
what's called ASION. It's a collective of Southeast Asian countries.
(35:00):
Their economy, their collective economy, which is becoming more integrated,
is going to be the fourth largest in the world
by twenty thirty. So we're talking a part of the
world that is becoming much more economically important. You know,
in terms of geopolitics, you know, the US and China
(35:20):
are jostling for influence in that part of the world.
And you've got startup companies. There was there was one
out of Malaysia that maybe about fifteen years ago. They
started as a as a ride tailing app called Grab.
It started in Malaysia and in April this year it
(35:44):
announced that it was through you know, investments and fundraising.
They were about to become a forty billion dollar company.
They've become so huge. There's a there's a great story.
I enjoy I have to stay every once in a
while in moderation. I enjoy a bit of single malt, Okay,
I admit that, right. And the part of the world
(36:06):
that's famous for single malts to Scotland, and so there's
a there's a one of the many distilleries there is
called Jura. It was set up in eighteen ten by
the Scotts. It is today owned by a holding company
that is Filipino. Okay. So what I'm trying to convey
to you a lot is that Asia's influence in the
world is growing dramatic. And I'm just talking about the
(36:27):
economic side. We could talk about entertainment and culture, from
movies to k pop. You know, we've been buying Japanese
cars and Korean cars for years and that kind of
influence in America is going to continue to increase in
the years ahead. And so that's that's one of the
big trends that I follow comes obviously from spending time
out there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Why that was brought about another question for you, Why
do you think America is actually sleeping on that. You know,
it appears that they spend so much time watching the
television and and formulating their own opinions, and they haven't
even left their backyard yet. You know, they just they
just see one pitcher, you know, because they haven't traveled.
(37:09):
You know, That's what I'm saying. They haven't even left
their backyard yet. So how do they form so many
different opinions on you know, China and Asia and some
other countries. You know, it's just kind of mind boggling
if you think about that, you know. So it it's
great to talk to someone like yourself that's actually been there,
that's emerged in the economy and really know what's really
(37:31):
going on because I see it too, and I understand
it because I'm I'm I'm a techy kind of guy,
and I'm always looking at the new toys that's coming
from that part of the world.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Yeah, And I mean, if you talk, for example, about
electric cars, right, so our future come on today to
the extent that we're going to be owning cars. Uh,
they're gonna be electric. It's happening. It's happening really really fast, right,
and uh, you know, the most the country with the
most e buses like the city transport.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
That's China.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
I mean, they're they're you know, they're they're investing very
heavily in this next generation of vehicles. The US is
getting around with the big players like GM and Ford.
Both of them have announced programs of investment of over
twenty billion dollars each and transitioning to e fleets. But
this comes, you know, after the lead of China, not
(38:26):
the US, and actually Europe as out of the US
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Oh yeah, I know that because I mean I've traveled
in Europe, you know, many many, you know, years ago,
and that's when everybody was having cell phones. And I
noticed that people in Europe had free cell phones, you know,
when the people here in the US, you know, maybe
two out of five even had a cell phone. So,
(38:52):
you know, it was just amazing, you know, the technology
that's available in other parts of the world. But again,
if you don't leave out of your backyard, you really
won't know until you know.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Yeah, maybe part of that is I'd be interested in
your thoughts on this is you know, people who grew
up in the States, they may have traveled a little
bit or not much at all. They're on this giant economy,
which for you know, after World War Two was the biggest,
it was the largest, most influential economy and country in
the world. Right, and so you got this huge continent
(39:25):
and you can you can you know, immigrate to another state,
you know, on this huge continent and you know, work there.
And so it's kind of got used to the US
being number one at everything, Right, it's kind of hard
to believe that countries that not that long ago were
really really poor. You know, in the sixties, the lifespan
(39:50):
of the average Asian and the developing country was not
very high, and the figures on maternal mortality, child mortality,
hung et cetera, et cetera. You know, they were very
disturbingly high. And uh, for a variety of reasons, and
your countries across that continent have motivated.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Tim what happened? We lose you? Bart? Did we lose you? Hell?
And hello, ah, ladies and gentlemen. I think we may
have a little bit of a technical difficulty here. Hopefully,
(40:36):
I guess we'll call back shortly. We're talking to Bart
at about how COVID changed our lives for good. And
you know, we touched a little bit on some of
the negative things, of course, and and that's part of reality.
You know, you can't get part of that, and you
have to know where you've been in order to know
where you're going. Uh, And that's certainly you know the
(40:59):
case here. But if you just joined the show, you
just joined the show, please please be aware that you
can hear the whole shortness entirety and a few few moments.
Bart are you back?
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah, that I apologize you and our audience for checking
out there. That's a little bit of technic chech difficulty.
We're talking about Asia and how technologically sophisticated much of
that region as well. I guess I'm not that text
favvious the moment.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Sorry about that, No problem. We understand things happen and
you a long way away. So that's part of the
things we're talking about, the the technology and how things happen.
And you know, I'm one of those guys that remember,
you know, two track, player, four track, six track, eight track,
you know, twenty four, thirty two sixty four, you know,
(41:52):
the music industry, you know, to watch technology change, you know,
and I hate one of the things that kind of
went away that we kind of came back, but not
really came back, you know, and I'm looking at our
government leaders and our city congressmen and all that they
took out a lot of music programs in our schools,
and we have a lot more tech savvy, computer savvy
(42:17):
students than we do musicians, so I kind of like
hate that. And then for as our really senior musicians,
you know, a lot of those aren't really tech savvy,
and like you mentioned earlier about how technology and the
whole digital thing, we're going to be seeing a lot
more than that, you know. And I'm kind of sad
(42:38):
in a way because of that, because I know a
lot of people have missed that learning curve. But then
I'm happy in another way because we got a whole
another part of the world that wasn't very computer literate.
They have to step up their game, you know, with
zoom and a lot of other ways that they communicate.
(42:58):
So anyway, I just want to throw that little two
bits in there.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Well, and I have to agree with you about the
loss of music programs. Speaking more generally about art and
cultural aspects and schools. Yeah, obviously it's important to learn,
you know, language and math and science and history, but
what about the music. I mean, that's a part of
all our lives. It's uh so, I'm with you. I
(43:23):
have in my family, I have musicians who have dabbled professionally,
and so then it's it's become harder, not easier, to
make a living in the business, I think. But you
would know better than me.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Well, like I said, Like I said, it just made
them step up there their learning curve in terms of
how to you know, do the auditions virtually, play virtually
you know, and oppose how it you know it used
to be. Can't do that. And I know a lot
of people who've been doing you know, concerts that way,
they've been forced to find other ways to continue. And
(44:00):
that's one thing like the pandemic, did you know it
did to me? It made me start looking more at
that man in the mirror because we did tend to
take a lot more for granted before the pandemic. But
you know, when everything kind of shut down and you
had a lot of time on your hands and you
started trying to figure out what you're going to do
at that time, you know, and still be productive, you know,
(44:24):
So it made you get rid of a lot of
stuff and adopt adapt to especially if you're true survivalists.
You know, it made you adapt to other ways to
try to continue and forge your head.
Speaker 5 (44:38):
So, yeah, you got me thinking a lot about some
other changes we may be saying. You know, there was
a lot of reflection going on when people weren't stressing out,
and a lot of people have been stressing out about
what matters, right, you know, what's important and including human beings,
relationship with nature, with the environment. I mean, something was
(44:59):
off balance, right. We've got this this virus spreading amongst us, right,
and there's something off balance. And it's been the case
even before the pandemic for a while, you know, when
you talk about extinction as species or deforestation, the pollution
of the environment and the bigger challenge of climate change.
(45:19):
And you know, as tourism begins to come back, including
international tourism, and it's going to be a little while
before borders are completely open and stuff, I think you
can be finding people seeking more of nature there. There's
been some anecdotal, uh you know, data on that already.
And for those who have the means to say, buy
(45:44):
a plot of land or something outside the city, city
dwellers who uh you know, want to move to have
a cottage or or something in the in the more
rural area. I know where I'm living, just as an example,
and I'm not part of this group going off and
buying a place, but I see I see people doing it,
and the prices are soaring, and I think it's part
(46:06):
of this trend of the people wanting to reconnect with nature,
to get away from the kind of that the rat race.
And this is reflected in other things to a lot
of people, like in the hospitality business, they talk about
the great resignation, a lot of people quitting their jobs
they don't want to go back, or those who have
the luxury of being able to work remotely, you know,
digital nomads, they're going off to more pleasant surroundings, maybe
(46:30):
saving some money, for example, leaving extensive Silicon Valley to
live in a place where there's nature, mountains or or
its seaside that's not as expensive around the Bay. So
just to say that you know this, uh yeah, finding
greater meaning there's there's some of that going on right now. Uh.
And people not just wanting to accept that the way
(46:53):
we work, for example, and live before was exactly the
way we want to work and live going forward.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Bart they had to slow down, take time and smell
the roses, because I guess I guess they're seeing that.
You know, it's this thing we call life is so fleeting,
and I think that's undercurrent to a lot of stuff too.
You do want to get away. It does make you
(47:23):
think a little smarter, you know, and how to enjoy
you know, what's left within this situation.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
Yeah, that's true. You're also seeing that a little bit
in the way in the behavior of consumers. For example,
there's a growing popularity of meatless options, so like beyond
meat and suck these products that are not meat, but
they simulated to those who were not vegetarian or vegan.
(47:53):
But some of them are thinking, yeah, well this might
be better for the environment, better for me. I think
this pandemic, you know, one of the other things that
come out of it is increased attention to sustainability. And
so this is this is where I identify myself as
somebody with glass is half full. I think we've done
some damage and we're going to consider that we're going
(48:13):
to continue to see the kinds of impacts on the
environment that we've been seeing unfortunately because of past actions.
And I refer to for example, you know, these these
crazy record temperatures in the Pacific Northwest, the massive flooding
we've seen in Germany and Belgium that's killed nearly two
hundred people.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Uh uh.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
You know, a lot of bad things have happened, but
there's also a sense that we need to make some changes.
And you have big, big banks, you have corporations making
commitments about you know, net zero targets, and and governments
taking firm re action. The EU, for example, European Union
has has just been the last few days strengthened its
(48:53):
standards for vehicle emissions and and the Biden administration in
the US is expected to do the same. And consumers
are expecting this when they want to see that they're
buying products from companies that are being more responsible not
just on the environment, but in the way they govern
themselves and their approach to social justice and how they
treat their workforce. So I do see some positive trends
(49:16):
that I think may stick with us, that may end
up saving us, you know, if it's not in some
senses too late, given the damage done to an environment.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Right well, you know, bar those some of the things
that gives you hope for us in the near future.
Speaker 5 (49:35):
Yes, exactly. And I come back to the topic of
my book, Strategic Foresights, So you know, set of tools
you don't need to be you know an expert who
studied this for years. We can practice this in a
small company or even in our family. Basically just tuning
into how things are changing around us and how these
(49:56):
big trends might interact to create different kinds of futures
that on the surface we may not realize are possible.
So basically doing a bit of reflection and in preparing
for those possible futures, some not so bright, some brighter.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, m whatever don't kills make us stronger?
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
So what do you have mixed in the store for you? Bart?
I know, are you on a book tour? Are you
going out and spread the word or are you doing
any speaking engagements?
Speaker 5 (50:33):
Well, I'm doing a lot of UH speaking engagements at
the moment, so talking to recently diplomats in the Washington
area where I spent some time Washington, DC, UH to
corporate officials at universities talking about foresight and also talking
about what we can expect in our near.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Term future and our longer term future. And where people
don't like what they hear about what may be coming.
And I'm careful to you know, presits all this with
you know, this is not written in stone. What happens
in the coming weeks and months and years, not all
of that is fixed. We can change and that's the
that's the empowering part. If we come together and decide
(51:13):
we want to collectively change the course of events time
and time again, we can see that's possible. But it's
helpful to know where some of these big trends are
interacting that could create a world, for example, that's in
an environmental state that that's worse than today, where there's
greater inequality and disruption, where there's conflict between major powers
(51:37):
with different perspectives on the economy and liberty and that
sort of thing. So I try to, you know, I'm
trying to highlight the tools we can use to understand
where the future might go, while highlighting the possibilities to
take action and actually change our course. And let me
just mention there that an example of that comes out
(51:59):
of San Francisco, right, So there's a nonprofit organization in
the Bay Area that has been looking at the future
of the Bay Area.
Speaker 5 (52:08):
And you know, this has become one of the most technologically.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Sophisticated parts of the world.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
You've got Silicon Valley and all that.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
And so they came together.
Speaker 5 (52:16):
In a civic leaders business leaders looking at what might
the Bay Area look like in the year twenty seventy.
That's pretty ambitious fifty years ahead. And they're asking themselves,
you know, looking at things like the economy. Housing, I mean,
you can't you can hardly afford to live there unless
you're you know, you're making a fortune working for a
tech company. Transportation issues. You know, there's gridlock all over
(52:39):
the place, and you know, homelessness and major challenges. And
so they are using scenarios, which are big parts of
the foresight to see, you know, what are the different
possibilities here, and some of them are are not great,
but they're using that insight right developed by you know,
asking critical questions, bringing in verse group with different perspectives
(53:01):
and looking at how some of these scenarios might play out,
and then examining, Okay, what do we need to do,
what do we need to change is society living in
this part of North America to create a path for
the Bay Area to achieve an economically strong socially just
and environmentally sustainable future. And i'd really lead you with
that thought, you know, and highlight that that's something a
(53:24):
message I'm taking to different audiences is you know, we
have it in our power. There are these tools. Let's
let's invest energy into reflection on different possible scenarios coming about,
to different forces interacting, and then seize the scenario that
we want and work hard to achieving that together.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Very well say it, my friend very well said. I
couldn't have said it better myself very well said. So, boy,
tell everybody how they can in contact with you, how
they can get a copy of your book and all
that great information.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Sure, if you type in my name, that's Bart in
the last name spelled E D E. S Adesh, which
is no way you'd know that unless you were Hungarian.
But type in Bart's Learning from Tomorrow. Do that at
Amazon dot com or visit your local bookstore which hopefully
is reopened, and you'll find the book there. And as
(54:31):
far as reaching me, for those of you who are
on Twitter, and if you're not, maybe you want to be,
it's a good place to track trends in areas that
interest you, whether it be music or environment or something else.
Go on Twitter and look up at big Trends Guy,
Big Trends Guy altogether one word, and that's where I'm
(54:52):
at and you can reach me there, and I'd love
to hear your ideas about the future and how we
can together formulate a more livable, sustainable and inclusive.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
One bart I had asked mister tim Or the question
in regards to his book, So I'm going to put
that one out there to you as well.
Speaker 5 (55:16):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Have or do you have any thoughts of doing an audiobook.
Speaker 5 (55:25):
At the moment now? Variety of magistical reasons and the
timing of the book, which focused a lot on the
crisis were in presently, so, for example, has some short
term scenarios, and I could I understand the value A
lot of people are using audiobooks, and let me just
say that for the next book when that comes, I
(55:47):
could see easily weaving into that distribution plan and audiobook.
But in this case now it's just that ebooks or
hard talking.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Right, Okay, I'm just thought ask you know, for those
people out there that's on such and such and such
a busy schedule, they don't have time to read, so
they can listen to it. Sure, I understand, I definitely understand.
Sure well, Bart, I definitely enjoyed, you know, the time
we had spending. I want to open the door and
definitely leave it open for you to come back and
(56:18):
join us at any any time. We definitely want to
stay abreast of what's going on. For those people I
actually have their eyes wide openings paying attention, you know,
to the world, and hopefully those are asleep and woke
up during the show and some of the things that
you offered penetrated and get us some food for thought
(56:39):
moving forward. So definitely, Man, anytime, anytime, come back through.
We'd love to have you. And I'm gonna read your
book as well, so I can be a little bit writing,
a little bit more intelligent on some of the subjects
on some of the things that you spoke on the
show today.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
So Mar thank you so much. I really are shiare
the opportunity for joining your program, which has been doing
a fantastic public service and bringing new voices, stimulating thinkers
and authors making their thoughts available to a wider audience.
Urge you to keep it up, and I will do
my small parts in helping to promote awareness of the program.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
So thanks so much, and thank you so much as well, Bart,
and I want to give a shout out to to
mister Tim Ward so making everything possible and doing all
the great things that he's doing. So with that being said,
we'll see you guys next week, same time, And if
you've missed, part of the show to be available worldwide
(57:42):
in the next two minutes. And if you have problems
getting a show, and you know, like I always say,
ask your mama, ask your daddy, ask your neighbor across
the street, the asthmatic as for a supermarket, somebody will
tell you where you could hear the show, so you
have no excuse. And if all that fails, he's in
contact the office here at three through three ninety five
(58:03):
seven seven three two two if we don't want to
miss this, and thanks so much for joining us, and
go check out why nnis got good stuff going on,
all right, see you guys next week, same time, two
thirty ps T.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, yeah, old school, that's what I'm talking about. Listen
this thing for everybody, For some of y'all need to
hear it. I know you're in the trenches fighting, but
check it out. I'm gonna put it down like this
so I can get him sings. Understand everything you're going through.
It's all part of the master plant or what. Just
cause you gotta saved everything, we'll gonna be features the queen.
You better wake up, sohn, don't nothing come to a
(58:42):
super god? What is it? Reach a bible?
Speaker 2 (58:45):
You know what it says?
Speaker 1 (58:46):
He don't work, don't back.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Don't get say it.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah he just said. He hoops his hands to the pot,
looks back to say makes fit. Some of y'all ain't
been in the pitcher five minutes and you're not ready to.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
Queen, I ain't mad. I'm just hitting you with the
wheel if you go for me, I how do you
say that makes you feel?
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Check this out? He's gag. This is ze y'all as
sawing nothing but just stunned trying to read something. But
I thought he was able to position for by his glory.
Strumping might be part of your testimony. But did they
pay to the stoke?
Speaker 5 (59:12):
Now?
Speaker 1 (59:12):
I wanted side way back in the day. Wow, I
think the look right here. See if the church get
my lace working out, working out, we.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Get out? Ye can? Yes she can.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Thinking not slaying the fire reprovert just tried you. You say,
why you what your shirt shake? What would Jesus do?
While you're asking if he ain't trying to do what
he's saying. He told you he was gonna have timulations,
but you thought he was playing one minute, you telling
how good guy it be? Can't nobody missing talk the
next vintage of back fight so fast? I'm like your
moon walking. Oh yeah, I'm listening to myself that I
ain't no better. It ain't like I've been falling at
(01:00:01):
every word of being into the letter.
Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
But we shoulders.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
We gotta remember that. We say, yeah, found down the factor,
stay humble, let him annoy. It ain't even as I
thought it was.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I've been lying up, I told you, but.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
It showed up betting better all the time. That's Ben.
And if we go up to the KP Hill, God
put that on this tub like they said, you can shout.
Now I can walk to because the bam talt me
the book. So why you're talking by don't even shut
You're gonna be on top cut in the hook line
with mokids and you don't stop. Wee can may stop
working up.
Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Let me call you.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
We know it up.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Oh I know we can't make it. We can't anywhere talking,
work it out to get the can?
Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
You get the can?
Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
He is going to work him out for then? Am
I no gooding? Well?
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
He can work it out there?
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Can you get just.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Make this.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Well?
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Looking up, I know we can't make well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I know I'm well to get the can. I get
the can and can get the can if you're then
am I no gooting?
Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
He can work it out
Yeah, yeah, old school, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Listening.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This ain't for everybody. Some of y'all need to hear it.
I know you're in the trenches fighting, but check it out.
I'm gonna put it down like this fight. Can hear
him the sings. Understand everything you're going through. It's all
part of the master plant or what you say, cause
you got saved. Everything was gonna be pictures with Queen.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You better wake up.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Son.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Don't nothing come to a super but pin worse? Is
it reach the firele? You know what he says, he
don't work do blackly don't get say it. Yeah, he's
just said.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
He hoops his hands.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
To the pot, looks back to say makes fit. Some
of y'all ain't been in the switch of five minutes
and you're not ready to quit.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I ain't mad.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm stenting you with the wheel. If you got from me,
I was still Now how do you think that makes
you feel? Check this out? He gas, this is ze huey.
I mean, y'all have sawing nothing, but your son is
trying to reach something. But I thought him, who was
there for the position of farmers fight his glory trumping
might be part of your testimony. But it ain't pay
to the stoke. Now I want to stuff's proper's side way.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Back in the day.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Why I sing the hook right here?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
See if the church get lay.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Working out, working up, we.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Worked it out, yes can yes he can. Think you're
not saying the fire reprover of just tr you. You say,
why you what your shirt? Say? What would Jesus do?
Why you're asking if you ain't trying to do what
he's saying. You told you he was gonna have timulations,
but you thought he was played one minute? You trying
to how good guy the be? Can't nobody missing talk
(01:34):
the next vintage of back fight so fast like your
moon walking. Oh yeah, I'm listening to myself that I
ain't no better. It ain't like I've been falling at
every word a man into the letter. But we're told
us we gotta remember that, we say yo, yeah, bout
down the say humble, let him annoy. It ain't even
as I thought it was. I've been lying up, I
told you, but it showed up being better all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Bus this that's the fast ain't.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
If we go U through the KP Hill, God put
that on this hub like they say, you can shop
now if you walk to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So why you go up?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
You're gonna be your time quo.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
We welcome, welcome everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
This is your host, Lamar Patterson. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for joining us. We definitely definitely appreciate it.
We know you could be somewhere doing something else with
your time, but in actuality, I'm gonna say, this is
where you really need to be.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I'd like to say, right here, right now, if you
have anything that's happening in your life that could help motivate,
stimulate on a positive note, that could really help the
people in this world in which we live with, I
like to hear about it. Hit us up. Our office
number is three two three nine five seven seven three
two two. Now, with that being said, we're gonna jump
(03:11):
into it. We're gonna get right into it. We got
a fantastic show lined up for you. We're definitely talking
about current stuff, stuff that's going on with everybody. Everybody
out there, no matter where you are, where you may be,
this thing is touching you definitely definitely. So let us see.
Let me see that all of us see as a
(03:33):
guess with us, mister bart edits are you with us.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Sir, Lamont, I am with you. Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Okay, yes, sir, I can hear you loud and clear,
and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We're very, very excited. You know, you got a whole
bunch of information to share with our listeners. Man, and
I would encourage everybody right now sit down somewhere and
get your note out pencil, you know, so you can
take down some of this information that's is gonna be
sharing with you, because that's what I'm doing, even though
(04:06):
we're gonna replay the show over and over again. And
if he didn't get it, you're gonna get it. Bart.
I'm sorry for really all, man, but I'm so excited
to have you on the show because I know this
is what everybody's talking about right today.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Lamont, you are too kind, and I would bet that
I'm twice as excited about being on your show.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Oh wow, well, I guess we're too excited. We're too excited, gentlemen, everybody,
So you know, if we stumble on something, please don't
over this the cowboy. You know what I'm saying. It's
just adrenaline running. But mister Edis he's a policy analyst, commentator,
and the author of Learning from Tomorrow, Using Strategic Foresight
(04:46):
to Prepare for the next disruption Like right Now. He
studied the Rise of Asia, innovation, sustainable development goals, and
transformative trends reshaping the world. Since twenty twenty, he's also
served as a non resident Senior Associate at the Center
for Strategic and International Studies in Washington Sea and was
(05:09):
named a Distinguished so at the Asian Pacific Foundation of
Canada and January this year twenty twenty. I. In May
of this year he joined us Facilic at the Faculty
I'm sorry McGill University as a professor of practice. That's
that excitement jumping out Mark.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Ye lament time, thank you for that intro. I'm speaking
with you and those who have joined us today from Montreal,
north of the border in French Canada, and it's it's
a real pleasure to launch into an exploration of some
big ideas in the midst of this pandemic and maybe
(05:52):
offer a couple of ideas on how we might come
out of it in a better place than when we
went went into it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That's great And for those that don't know what we're
speaking on is how COVID nineteen's changed our lives for good.
We're gonna go down that road first, So let's let's start.
Let's start there art.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
What COVID has changed in our lives? My goodness, and uh,
you know, we witnessed it firsthand, and everybody has experienced
it in a different way. In North America, you know,
there's been a lot of suffering, and it's been disproportionately,
you know, disadvantaged, marginalized, poor groups to have suffered the most, uh,
the elderly, Uh, you know, especially in the early stages
(06:40):
of the pandemic. So it's it's been a tough time.
And then economically, you know, in the labor market, a
lot of people have lost their jobs. What I do,
Lamont is I spent a lot of time looking at
big trends, and after we get through this difficult period,
I'm looking ahead to to what's going to happen next.
What are what are some of the things that are
(07:00):
going to stick around after COVID and what might be different.
And I'll throw a few provocative ideas that you just
to start and see where you want to go with
the conversation. But just a few thoughts on things that
went away in the last sixteen months.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And aren't likely to come back, or if they do come.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Back, maybe not in the same full force. So an
example I would say is is companies, big corporations that
are ambivalent about sustainability and work life balance. I think
companies have to take on more responsibility, care more about
their staff, and realize a lot of them are burnt
(07:42):
out and have been working from home and that's been
both good and bad. But on the good side, they've
appreciated the flexibility and time with life. So companies that
are kind of indifferent to work life balance or to
important sustainable issues like the environment, health, and social justice,
(08:02):
it's gonna be harder to not act in these areas.
And that's just one example. I'll give you a couple
other quick ones, maybe less less serious, but movie theaters.
You know, there's been a long term trend in the
US where cinemas have been closing and in COVID, obviously
a lot of them shut down at least temporarily, but
not all of them are going to come back because
(08:23):
we got into the habit of streaming, and yeah, sure
some of us will go back to the movie. You know,
for old time's sake, but it's not going to be
like before. Neighborhood mailbox is just one other thing that
we were familiar with for the last many years. Those
that started to disappear with greater frequency during the pandemic,
and a lot of those aren't coming back. So a
(08:43):
lot of little things are going to change, and some
bigger things like fertility. I'll just end on that note
for the moment. We've seen a constant decline in the
birth rate in the last six years in the US,
and last year, for as long as records have been kept,
we hit the lowest level ever, and so we may
not see a bounce back to the birth rates of
previous times as people worry about, you know, when we
(09:05):
see another pandemic or another big disruption that could make
life difficult if we've got family. Let me just pause
there and see what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh wow, Well, I'm thinking kind of like all over
the place. And I think one thought that's jumped out
in my mind is in regards to this pandemic, based
on some of the things that we know has occurred
in history, why did it seem like this country or
this government was so ill prepared.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Yeah, I think we're going to be asking ourselves that
question for a long time. And it's clear that the
government at all levels wasn't prepared. And you could say
that about you know, authorities, leaders and in most countries
around the world, and it wasn't that surprised completely that
we were going to have pandem Okay, you have these epidemiologists,
(10:04):
health experts who for years have been warning of the
possibility of a pandemic. Bill Gates, who likes to talk
on big issues, he gave a TED talk a few
years ago and warned we're going to see a pandemic.
And in the area one of the areas I specialize
in called strategic foresight, which is about trying to understand
where the future might go. There was a study came
(10:27):
out eleven years ago sponsored by the Rockefeller Foundation where
they outlined some possible scenarios for the future, and one
of them was a global pandemic that would see governments
introducing all kinds of restrictions, including on travel, that there'd
be more government surveillance, and that China would come out
of the crisis better than most other countries. That was
(10:49):
out of a foresight study done eleven years ago, and
then we saw a lot of that come true in
twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. So to get to
your question, we could have known it was coming, even
if we didn't know that the dates.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Or the month or the exact year.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Why wan't we more prepared? And I guess the short answer,
there's a longer one, but the short answer is a
lot of us, a lot of us are kind of
creatures of the moment. We have a lot going on
in our lives, right you know, we're taking care of
our family and our job and aspirations for learning and growth,
and it's and there's so many risks before us just
(11:22):
getting across the street, you know, or other challenges we face,
and it's a bit overwhelming when we don't have a
particular date in mind that a pandemic may strike in
the future. How do you get prepared for something like that?
Wrap your head around it. And it's whether it's in
the business community, or government or society more generally, we
sometimes have difficulty in preparing for changes that we're not
(11:45):
entirely sure or disruption. We're not sure when they're going
to hit, they're going to hit. In this case, there
was a pretty good idea. It was going to and
I can tell you Laman, it's going to happen again.
I can't tell you when, but there will be other pandemics.
There may be more or less beer hopefully less, and
hopefully one of the lessons we gain out of this
crisis is that we need to do better preparation. We
(12:08):
need to be ready to pounce uh and put in
place measures to to limit its spread and get it
under control.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But unfortunately, I don't think they got the memo right now. Still, yeah,
I don't. I mean because if you look at what's
happening right now, it's going out there with this new
delta variant. I still don't think they got the memo.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, scary when you think about it.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Yeah, yeah. You know, a lot of a lot of
the US has kind of gotten back to you know,
life's similar to the way it was in the what
I like to call the before times, before March and
twenty twenty, where we walked around Mass three and did
what we did. But the fact is, only about half
of the population in the US is vaccinated, and there's
(13:05):
now a problem of a vaccine hesitancy. So people, for
whatever reason, they're reluctant to get it, and that is
allowing this delta variance to spread. And the number of
COVID cases in America right now is rising following right,
So today I can tell you there's about thirty one
thousand cases a day seven days ago, eighteen thousand, fourteen
(13:29):
days ago, fourteen thousand, and about three weeks ago we
were saying two eleven thousand cases a day. So from
eleven thousand cases a day twenty one days ago, we're
now at thirty one thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And it's just as you say, the lize the spread of.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
This delta variance, and it's challenging a return to something
resembling normal.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I see it. They didn't get the memo, and
once it did is really not taken as serious.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And now we're going to be right, but we're gonna
be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Where we were a few months ago. It's not worse, actually, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
So the tragedy is, you know, again what I was
saying at the outsit, the people who suffer the most
from this are those you know, with the fewest means
you know, to to deal with it. These are h
you know, people struggling in jobs, maybe low paying jobs,
without job security and communities that have been hard hits.
(14:30):
It's if you've got if you're flushed with cash, you
don't you know, you find a way to work your
way out of most any problem. And so there's a
great when I'm saying is there's the inequality that existed
in the US before the pandemic. It was made worse
by this pandemic. And the longer it goes on, Uh,
(14:52):
it's poorer communities that are going to suffer more.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And that's that's just awful.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it is. And unfortunately, I don't know, man, I
hate to say it sound like I'm uh anti government,
but it seems like the powers that be aren't really
thinking beyond their playground. I mean, they say they are,
but it doesn't really seem like it. Like you just mentioned,
you know, the people in those areas, they're gonna suffer
(15:21):
the worse. There's nowhere around it.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Well, you know, I don't want to I don't want
to make this whole hour a real downer for.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Those who are tuning in.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
What we're saying is what we're seeing, right, you and
I are seeing and there's been a failures.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And just to ride to the gat on what you
just said. You know, Uh, if you want to be
lied to, this is really not the show for you guys,
you know. And you know I take pride and the
guests that we bring on on the show to be informative,
straightforward and give you guys real stuff. You know, and
you know, if you think the truth hurts, I'm sorry,
(16:04):
that's not what we're trying to do. We're just trying
to give you really food for thoughts, so you can
go forward with your eyes wide open, not wide shut.
So I just had to say that. Bo. Yeah, so
let's talk about your book. Let's talk about your book
a little bit, and then we can go forward and
hopefully somebody listeners. If you have any questions, or if
(16:25):
you got any comments, or would you like to join
any conversation, please feel free to die six four six
nine to nine twenty eight seventy eight press number one
on your phone and we'll be glad to let you
jump in. All right, I'm loving the conversation. Bart.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Well, so my Laman, and thank you for flagging my
new books. It's called Learning from Tomorrow, Using strategic foresight
to prepare for the next big disruption, and it's part
of a series of books that was published by a
fellow you just recently had on just one more in
the long series of really smart stimulating people with some
(17:09):
provocative ideas that you bring onto your show. And I'm
talking in this case about Tim Ward of Change Makers Books,
and he put together a series of books trying to
point a way forward where we could start to develop
a better world, you know, a more socially just world
(17:30):
where the economy wasn't just working or primarily working for
those you know in the one percent, and also addressing
major environmental issues and challenges, whether it be you know,
excessive consumption by consumers or climate change. And so series
(17:50):
of generally short books right to the point, with some
clear ideas to try and generate some action. And so
I was very fortunate to be invited to contribute here.
And basically what my book's about is the concept of
strategic foresight. And basically foresight is a it's a way
of a structure and systematic way of using ideas about
(18:15):
the future to anticipate in better prepare for change. It's
it's really about exploring different plausible futures and the opportunities
and risks that they could introduce and so using these
tools and methodologies of foresight, we can use the ideas
generated through the process to make better decisions and to
(18:37):
take action, and we can ultimately, you know, envision a
preferred future what do we want to move towards? And
generally foresight is used by different organizations. Some businesses use
a governments other organizations, and they use it in circumstances
of great change, of volatility, of uncertainty and trying to
(19:00):
get an idea of what's going to happen in about
ten years or more. So it's not for next quarter
or next month. It's a set of tools you're using
to try and get an idea what are plausible futures
ten years on and looking then at what are some
of these negative contential futures we want to avoid and
what are some of the good ones that we want
(19:21):
to work toward. And a nutshell, that's what it's about.
About one out of four fortune five hundred companies have
in house capacity doing foresight work. An increasing number of
US government agencies are using it, and there are universities
that are teaching it, like University Houston has a degree
(19:44):
program a Strategic Foresight. And because of the shock of
the pandemic and people were looking around it the changes
that we experienced in such a quick time, and we're concerned,
are concerned about what comes next. There's been a lot
of a new interest in this multidisciplinary approach to addressing
(20:05):
the future.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You know, Bart again, Well, you got my mind jumping
all over the place you touched on. The next question
was was this book for it? But actually it sounds
like it's for everybody. And what I'm hear in Bart
too is that these companies and these corporations, they're thinking
about what could happen in the future and one way
(20:31):
or the other. And it seemed like that's almost like
a common sense approach. If you're running a business, wouldn't
you want to like use something like you're doing. And
I like the systematic approach, and maybe everybody really really
need to gravitate toward that part, you know, because as
a business owner now, I'm always thinking about where I'm
gonna be in the future and what could it could
(20:54):
not happen and what'sn't happening in the past that I
don't want to see repeated regardless, I mean, does that
make any sense?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Yeah, it makes great sense. Lamont's and you're you're running
a successful ongoing business, so you obviously have to be
thinking about what could come next, good and bad. I
guess the nuance about foresight is it goes beyond what
a lot of businesses use regularly. So they, especially bigger companies,
they have their whole teams looking at risk management, and
(21:23):
they're obviously doing forecasting, so like what are our sales
going to be next quarter, or you know, what might
be a product we consider rolling out in two or
three years, But.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Not Keim, you mentioned something right there that you mentioned forecasting,
and I think that's what I kind of lost to
in what I was trying to explain. But forecasting with
thinking about the future using your tools kind of do
they kind of going hand in hand.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
They sure do, They sure do. And actually forecasting is
similar to and complementary to foresite, which is what I'm
talking about. The difference is forecasting tends to be more
of a shorter term thing. You can take it a
few years ahead, but it's often like, you know, the
weather service is trying to forecast the weather tomorrow and
(22:14):
next week, the you know, the company a big corporation
talking to its shareholders they're predicting what their profit margin
will be. Uh, you know, in a couple of quarters,
governments are trying to assess, Okay, what's water usage going
to be like next year, or enrollment in school, and
(22:34):
forecasting tends to rely on historical data and current numbers,
so it kind of projects. It extrapolates from what we've
already seen historically, whereas foresite, it does not aim for position.
There's no there's no a single prediction with numbers. It's
more coming up with scenarios, a handful of scenarios of
(22:58):
where things might go again with a longer time frame
typically not always, but typically a decade on. And so
you're not going to find numbers in the way of
a specific prediction, but a scenario that can alert you
to opportunities and risks and what you should be preparing
for in scenario like the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And if you explain that so very well, man, I'm
so excited to have you here. So so part, what
do you think do what new habits that people adopted
during a pandemic that you think is going to stick
with us?
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Well, I'll be also interested in your take on this, Lamot,
because you know a lot of us in these times
have been doing a little bit of self reflection. We've
had a little time to contemplate, especially in the lockdown period.
You know, where are we in life? What do we value?
You know, things that are important to us. So you know,
(23:57):
among the things that I think went away, and I'll
tell you about things that are going to stay. I
had mentioned about, you know, movie theaters, you know, not
disappearing completely, but kind of a down continuing downward climb
or fall, I should say, neighborhood mail boxing, imber.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I remember driving, I remember driving. Theaters used to be everywhere.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, Actually they got a little bit of
a boost in some places because it was outdoors. In
some places were allowing them during COVID as long as
people were spaced out socially distanced. But yeah, I don't
see those making a big comeback. But look, you know,
before the pandemic, the assumption was that if you're an
office worker, and let's keep in mind, not if already
(24:38):
works in an office, but there is a part of
the population that does. There's a sort of this assumption. Okay,
you're you get up in the morning at your coffee
and your driver you hop the train or bus, depending
on where you are, and you go to the office. Right, Well,
that assumption is gone, okay, because we have been working
from home again. Office workers those who can not necessarily
(25:00):
those in the frontline serving foods, living, haircuts, healthcare, whatever.
But for those going in office, we're not all going
back in September after Labor Day, right, There are going
to be new hybrid arrangements. And I could talk at
length about that. I won't for the moment, but just
to say this assumption that office workers work in the
office that's gone long. Pointless meetings. I'm hoping this is
(25:25):
a bit aspirational that those are mostly gone. Because people
had little less patients on Zoom, meetings tended to be shorter.
They also tended often to be more participatory, more people
could join in, and so it's going to be hard
to get people to sit through two hour meetings where
there's a lot of blah blah and they're not well organized,
right right, the meet and sleep yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
(25:51):
Something else I think we're done with is education and
training without a digital component. So I'm not saying we're
all going to be studying online, whether it's you know,
primary or secondary education, university or post secondary whatever. But
it's going to be hard to get away from a
digital component. So even as you know most schools go
(26:11):
back in September, they go back to school in North America,
at least you can expect that the experience with with
Zoom and with Internet and with all kinds of other
tools including virtual reality. Uh, we're going to see more
digital components in education and training and maybe one other
(26:32):
thing just about what's what's disappearing not coming back? I'd
say business travel. Okay, again it's not it's not black
and white, but it's we're going to see right now,
it's going to take a while to get back anywhere
near to the levels before because businesses realize how much
they could get done virtually. And you know, if you
(26:53):
want to travel, like to a conference or something that's
in person, you can have to make a pretty big
case because that's a big part of a com I
mean budget. So some firms where they absolutely need to
have interaction for sales, what have you. Okay, they're going
to encourage some people to go out on the road,
but I think a lot of organizations are going to
cut back on business travel.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, because it all goes back to that bottom line,
the dollar house spent where is spent.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Well? And you know you were asking also about so
what kinds of things are going to stick around? And
I gave a hint of that with the digital component
of education and training telehealth. You know, we had the
tools to do telehealth beforehand, but we were all accustomed
to going to the doctor if we had adequate coverage.
You know, that's the whole other issue is lack of
(27:44):
healthcare for many Americans. But you know, for those who
had it, they'd go see their doctor. And then in
COVID times, we had to work remotely, right, it was
either over the phone or over zoom or similar. Well, okay,
we're gonna start going back to doctor's offices. It's not
going to be like before. There's gonna be a lot
more use of telehealth, and there's pros and cons to that,
(28:05):
but it's it's sticking with us in part because doctors
like it. You know, whether they're billing, whether they're doing telehealth,
which is easier moving from one patient to the next,
and it's it's you know, it's it's it's easier for
the bit to work their way to recall in some
ways they're they're content with that, and health providers are
content with it, and and many people, you know, they've
(28:26):
gotten more use to it. Sometimes they really want to
see a doctor, but other times, you know, you don't
have to, you know, trudge across town and wait in
a waiting room with people coughing. Uh. There are some
advantages to tell health. So that's that's going to stick
with us. And you know, I want to try and
focus on the positive. My my whole interest in in
strategic foresight and kind of future thinking is that there's
(28:47):
a lot of dark scenarios, but I'm focusing on what
what can be some of the positive things, And so
talking about health a little bit, you know, and thinking
beyond the US borders. We've seen drones being you more
and more to deliver medicine and to provide patient sampling
in areas, for example, in African countries in rural areas
(29:10):
without access to hospitals took off during the pandemic. And
that kind of positive development where we're using technology to
help address health needs. This is something that's gonna ramp up.
And that's something that really gives me as something you know,
to be happy about. To be cheered that human ingenuity
and using technology for for good.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I had a question, man, it's kind of off the
cuff though maybe beyond another page. But I was just
wondering in regardless to water in some of these foreign
countries and stuff, with all the things that we see
on TV in terms of bad water, I was just wondering,
you know, we have the technology, there's the solonization facilities
(29:54):
on ships. You know, I'm wondering, why is it such
a big problem to get clean some of these places.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
Yeah, that's there's a whole host of issues there, and
it's it's it's a question that's kind of near and
dear to me them off because although I'm talking to
you from from a part of Canada that has a
lot of water, I mean it produces We produce a
lot of hydro power here, right, So the energy that
I'm using to charge my phone to speak with you
(30:25):
today is renewable energy. And that's something else that excites me.
But not every part of the world has that. And
you were really getting a drinking water. Well, My roots
were in the desert of Arizona. That's where I spent
my youth and in time since I left Arizona and
you know, the Southwest more generally, water crises have become
more severe.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Okay, so in that part of the world, you know,
you've had so much.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Water being used by these large farms and not always
very efficiently, so they've you know, the Colorado River in
some places is a trickle. Part of it is the
geography and the weather that the climate. Well you have,
you know, you have issues of water access. Climate change
is beginning to have an impact. We're talking about clean water. Well,
(31:08):
you have, for example, in South Asia and Nepal countries
that have there are there are ice caps and glaciers.
Those are fading and so you don't get the same
kind of runoffs and access to water now in other
places where you have lots of water, but it's not clean.
And this may have been what you were getting at.
(31:28):
Why why can't we provide clean water from a lot
of water.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Because like the Navy ships, the military vessels, you know,
they and salt water, they're cleaning it.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yeah, and something like seventy percent of our planet is water,
So what's the problem. You know, you're and a lot
of the world, a lot of the world lives within
you know, say fifty miles of a coastline near water. Well,
the short answer is it's those desalination exercises, initiatives and projects.
(32:00):
It's very expensive. You can do it. Countries are doing
you say, militaries are doing it, right, but it's really
really expensive. So so ProMED for Saudi Arabia, with its
oil riches, to have desalination plants. Right. Singapore, one of
the wealthiest countries in Asia, they're doing desalination right, and
they're also taking sewer water and they're cleaning it and
(32:23):
turning it back into drinking water. So it's the tech. Look,
short answer is the technology is there, It's uh, it's
where where is the market for it? Can the market
do it to a private sector? And whether the private
sector can't or won't do it? Is there is government
going to step in and do it? And then you
can ask yourself the bigger question the mont is you
(32:45):
know what inquires government's action? Who are there?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Whose influence the governments?
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Who? Right? You know? Is it? Is it the poor
people without access to water or anyway? Just dot dot
dot you get where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think everybody would A portion of a brain can
figure out the rest of that one. Yeah, well so
what so what you spent a lot of time in Asia?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Yeah, you know, this has been really formative in my
life experience that I mentioned a couple of places where
I'm living or grew up, but I spent most of
the last two decades in Southeast Asia, in the Philippines, Okay,
and which, among other things, exports a lot of people.
There are a lot of Filipino Americans, a lot of
(33:37):
Filipino Canadians who have moved over time, and it's I
had a fascinating experience that I was working for an
international development agency that was working not just in the
Philippines but across developing Asia. And actually my experience working
in that continent was a big stimulant, I think for
(33:57):
my interest in foresights and wondering about what the future
might bring, because Asia, in the time that I was
out there was going through one of the most dramatic
transformations the world has ever seen. Social technological economics, massive transformation,
(34:17):
fast growing economies. The poverty rate was declining, substantially, growing
middle classes. People were getting on airplanes and flying to
other countries. Whereas before there was an aspiration they couldn't
dream of. So just it's you know, we talk when
we think about Asia a lot of times, the talk
centers around China because it's the big influential, you know
(34:39):
it it's a superpower, right, But there's so much more
to the region, including countries of Southeast Asia. So there
I include not just Philippines and Singa, fourth countries like Thailand,
Indonesia and Malaysia, Vietnam and those ten countries that form
what's called ASION. It's a collective of Southeast Asian countries.
(35:00):
Their economy, their collective economy, which is becoming more integrated,
is going to be the fourth largest in the world
by twenty thirty. So we're talking a part of the
world that is becoming much more economically important. You know,
in terms of geopolitics, you know, the US and China
(35:20):
are jostling for influence in that part of the world.
And you've got startup companies. There was there was one
out of Malaysia that maybe about fifteen years ago. They
started as a as a ride tailing app called Grab.
It started in Malaysia and in April this year it
(35:44):
announced that it was through you know, investments and fundraising.
They were about to become a forty billion dollar company.
They've become so huge. There's a there's a great story.
I enjoy I have to stay every once in a
while in moderation. I enjoy a bit of single malt, Okay,
I admit that, right. And the part of the world
(36:06):
that's famous for single malts to Scotland, and so there's
a there's a one of the many distilleries there is
called Jura. It was set up in eighteen ten by
the Scotts. It is today owned by a holding company
that is Filipino. Okay. So what I'm trying to convey
to you a lot is that Asia's influence in the
world is growing dramatic. And I'm just talking about the
(36:27):
economic side. We could talk about entertainment and culture, from
movies to k pop. You know, we've been buying Japanese
cars and Korean cars for years and that kind of
influence in America is going to continue to increase in
the years ahead. And so that's that's one of the
big trends that I follow comes obviously from spending time
out there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Why that was brought about another question for you, Why
do you think America is actually sleeping on that. You know,
it appears that they spend so much time watching the
television and and formulating their own opinions, and they haven't
even left their backyard yet. You know, they just they
just see one pitcher, you know, because they haven't traveled.
(37:09):
You know, That's what I'm saying. They haven't even left
their backyard yet. So how do they form so many
different opinions on you know, China and Asia and some
other countries. You know, it's just kind of mind boggling
if you think about that, you know. So it it's
great to talk to someone like yourself that's actually been there,
that's emerged in the economy and really know what's really
(37:31):
going on because I see it too, and I understand
it because I'm I'm I'm a techy kind of guy,
and I'm always looking at the new toys that's coming
from that part of the world.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Yeah, And I mean, if you talk, for example, about
electric cars, right, so our future come on today to
the extent that we're going to be owning cars. Uh,
they're gonna be electric. It's happening. It's happening really really fast, right,
and uh, you know, the most the country with the
most e buses like the city transport.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
That's China.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
I mean, they're they're you know, they're they're investing very
heavily in this next generation of vehicles. The US is
getting around with the big players like GM and Ford.
Both of them have announced programs of investment of over
twenty billion dollars each and transitioning to e fleets. But
this comes, you know, after the lead of China, not
(38:26):
the US, and actually Europe as out of the US
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Oh yeah, I know that because I mean I've traveled
in Europe, you know, many many, you know, years ago,
and that's when everybody was having cell phones. And I
noticed that people in Europe had free cell phones, you know,
when the people here in the US, you know, maybe
two out of five even had a cell phone. So,
(38:52):
you know, it was just amazing, you know, the technology
that's available in other parts of the world. But again,
if you don't leave out of your backyard, you really
won't know until you know.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Yeah, maybe part of that is I'd be interested in
your thoughts on this is you know, people who grew
up in the States, they may have traveled a little
bit or not much at all. They're on this giant economy,
which for you know, after World War Two was the biggest,
it was the largest, most influential economy and country in
the world. Right, and so you got this huge continent
(39:25):
and you can you can you know, immigrate to another state,
you know, on this huge continent and you know, work there.
And so it's kind of got used to the US
being number one at everything, Right, it's kind of hard
to believe that countries that not that long ago were
really really poor. You know, in the sixties, the lifespan
(39:50):
of the average Asian and the developing country was not
very high, and the figures on maternal mortality, child mortality,
hung et cetera, et cetera. You know, they were very
disturbingly high. And uh, for a variety of reasons, and
your countries across that continent have motivated.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Tim what happened? We lose you? Bart? Did we lose you? Hell?
And hello, ah, ladies and gentlemen. I think we may
have a little bit of a technical difficulty here. Hopefully,
(40:36):
I guess we'll call back shortly. We're talking to Bart
at about how COVID changed our lives for good. And
you know, we touched a little bit on some of
the negative things, of course, and and that's part of reality.
You know, you can't get part of that, and you
have to know where you've been in order to know
where you're going. Uh, And that's certainly you know the
(40:59):
case here. But if you just joined the show, you
just joined the show, please please be aware that you
can hear the whole shortness entirety and a few few moments.
Bart are you back?
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah, that I apologize you and our audience for checking
out there. That's a little bit of technic chech difficulty.
We're talking about Asia and how technologically sophisticated much of
that region as well. I guess I'm not that text
favvious the moment.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Sorry about that, No problem. We understand things happen and
you a long way away. So that's part of the
things we're talking about, the the technology and how things happen.
And you know, I'm one of those guys that remember,
you know, two track, player, four track, six track, eight track,
you know, twenty four, thirty two sixty four, you know,
(41:52):
the music industry, you know, to watch technology change, you know,
and I hate one of the things that kind of
went away that we kind of came back, but not
really came back, you know, and I'm looking at our
government leaders and our city congressmen and all that they
took out a lot of music programs in our schools,
and we have a lot more tech savvy, computer savvy
(42:17):
students than we do musicians, so I kind of like
hate that. And then for as our really senior musicians,
you know, a lot of those aren't really tech savvy,
and like you mentioned earlier about how technology and the
whole digital thing, we're going to be seeing a lot
more than that, you know. And I'm kind of sad
(42:38):
in a way because of that, because I know a
lot of people have missed that learning curve. But then
I'm happy in another way because we got a whole
another part of the world that wasn't very computer literate.
They have to step up their game, you know, with
zoom and a lot of other ways that they communicate.
(42:58):
So anyway, I just want to throw that little two
bits in there.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Well, and I have to agree with you about the
loss of music programs. Speaking more generally about art and
cultural aspects and schools. Yeah, obviously it's important to learn,
you know, language and math and science and history, but
what about the music. I mean, that's a part of
all our lives. It's uh so, I'm with you. I
(43:23):
have in my family, I have musicians who have dabbled professionally,
and so then it's it's become harder, not easier, to
make a living in the business, I think. But you
would know better than me.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Well, like I said, Like I said, it just made
them step up there their learning curve in terms of
how to you know, do the auditions virtually, play virtually
you know, and oppose how it you know it used
to be. Can't do that. And I know a lot
of people who've been doing you know, concerts that way,
they've been forced to find other ways to continue. And
(44:00):
that's one thing like the pandemic, did you know it
did to me? It made me start looking more at
that man in the mirror because we did tend to
take a lot more for granted before the pandemic. But
you know, when everything kind of shut down and you
had a lot of time on your hands and you
started trying to figure out what you're going to do
at that time, you know, and still be productive, you know,
(44:24):
So it made you get rid of a lot of
stuff and adopt adapt to especially if you're true survivalists.
You know, it made you adapt to other ways to
try to continue and forge your head.
Speaker 5 (44:38):
So, yeah, you got me thinking a lot about some
other changes we may be saying. You know, there was
a lot of reflection going on when people weren't stressing out,
and a lot of people have been stressing out about
what matters, right, you know, what's important and including human beings,
relationship with nature, with the environment. I mean, something was
(44:59):
off balance, right. We've got this this virus spreading amongst us, right,
and there's something off balance. And it's been the case
even before the pandemic for a while, you know, when
you talk about extinction as species or deforestation, the pollution
of the environment and the bigger challenge of climate change.
(45:19):
And you know, as tourism begins to come back, including
international tourism, and it's going to be a little while
before borders are completely open and stuff, I think you
can be finding people seeking more of nature there. There's
been some anecdotal, uh you know, data on that already.
And for those who have the means to say, buy
(45:44):
a plot of land or something outside the city, city
dwellers who uh you know, want to move to have
a cottage or or something in the in the more
rural area. I know where I'm living, just as an example,
and I'm not part of this group going off and
buying a place, but I see I see people doing it,
and the prices are soaring, and I think it's part
(46:06):
of this trend of the people wanting to reconnect with nature,
to get away from the kind of that the rat race.
And this is reflected in other things to a lot
of people, like in the hospitality business, they talk about
the great resignation, a lot of people quitting their jobs
they don't want to go back, or those who have
the luxury of being able to work remotely, you know,
digital nomads, they're going off to more pleasant surroundings, maybe
(46:30):
saving some money, for example, leaving extensive Silicon Valley to
live in a place where there's nature, mountains or or
its seaside that's not as expensive around the Bay. So
just to say that you know this, uh yeah, finding
greater meaning there's there's some of that going on right now. Uh.
And people not just wanting to accept that the way
(46:53):
we work, for example, and live before was exactly the
way we want to work and live going forward.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Bart they had to slow down, take time and smell
the roses, because I guess I guess they're seeing that.
You know, it's this thing we call life is so fleeting,
and I think that's undercurrent to a lot of stuff too.
You do want to get away. It does make you
(47:23):
think a little smarter, you know, and how to enjoy
you know, what's left within this situation.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
Yeah, that's true. You're also seeing that a little bit
in the way in the behavior of consumers. For example,
there's a growing popularity of meatless options, so like beyond
meat and suck these products that are not meat, but
they simulated to those who were not vegetarian or vegan.
(47:53):
But some of them are thinking, yeah, well this might
be better for the environment, better for me. I think
this pandemic, you know, one of the other things that
come out of it is increased attention to sustainability. And
so this is this is where I identify myself as
somebody with glass is half full. I think we've done
some damage and we're going to consider that we're going
(48:13):
to continue to see the kinds of impacts on the
environment that we've been seeing unfortunately because of past actions.
And I refer to for example, you know, these these
crazy record temperatures in the Pacific Northwest, the massive flooding
we've seen in Germany and Belgium that's killed nearly two
hundred people.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Uh uh.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
You know, a lot of bad things have happened, but
there's also a sense that we need to make some changes.
And you have big, big banks, you have corporations making
commitments about you know, net zero targets, and and governments
taking firm re action. The EU, for example, European Union
has has just been the last few days strengthened its
(48:53):
standards for vehicle emissions and and the Biden administration in
the US is expected to do the same. And consumers
are expecting this when they want to see that they're
buying products from companies that are being more responsible not
just on the environment, but in the way they govern
themselves and their approach to social justice and how they
treat their workforce. So I do see some positive trends
(49:16):
that I think may stick with us, that may end
up saving us, you know, if it's not in some
senses too late, given the damage done to an environment.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Right well, you know, bar those some of the things
that gives you hope for us in the near future.
Speaker 5 (49:35):
Yes, exactly. And I come back to the topic of
my book, Strategic Foresights, So you know, set of tools
you don't need to be you know an expert who
studied this for years. We can practice this in a
small company or even in our family. Basically just tuning
into how things are changing around us and how these
(49:56):
big trends might interact to create different kinds of futures
that on the surface we may not realize are possible.
So basically doing a bit of reflection and in preparing
for those possible futures, some not so bright, some brighter.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, m whatever don't kills make us stronger?
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
So what do you have mixed in the store for you? Bart?
I know, are you on a book tour? Are you
going out and spread the word or are you doing
any speaking engagements?
Speaker 5 (50:33):
Well, I'm doing a lot of UH speaking engagements at
the moment, so talking to recently diplomats in the Washington
area where I spent some time Washington, DC, UH to
corporate officials at universities talking about foresight and also talking
about what we can expect in our near.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Term future and our longer term future. And where people
don't like what they hear about what may be coming.
And I'm careful to you know, presits all this with
you know, this is not written in stone. What happens
in the coming weeks and months and years, not all
of that is fixed. We can change and that's the
that's the empowering part. If we come together and decide
(51:13):
we want to collectively change the course of events time
and time again, we can see that's possible. But it's
helpful to know where some of these big trends are
interacting that could create a world, for example, that's in
an environmental state that that's worse than today, where there's
greater inequality and disruption, where there's conflict between major powers
(51:37):
with different perspectives on the economy and liberty and that
sort of thing. So I try to, you know, I'm
trying to highlight the tools we can use to understand
where the future might go, while highlighting the possibilities to
take action and actually change our course. And let me
just mention there that an example of that comes out
(51:59):
of San Francisco, right, So there's a nonprofit organization in
the Bay Area that has been looking at the future
of the Bay Area.
Speaker 5 (52:08):
And you know, this has become one of the most technologically.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Sophisticated parts of the world.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
You've got Silicon Valley and all that.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
And so they came together.
Speaker 5 (52:16):
In a civic leaders business leaders looking at what might
the Bay Area look like in the year twenty seventy.
That's pretty ambitious fifty years ahead. And they're asking themselves,
you know, looking at things like the economy. Housing, I mean,
you can't you can hardly afford to live there unless
you're you know, you're making a fortune working for a
tech company. Transportation issues. You know, there's gridlock all over
(52:39):
the place, and you know, homelessness and major challenges. And
so they are using scenarios, which are big parts of
the foresight to see, you know, what are the different
possibilities here, and some of them are are not great,
but they're using that insight right developed by you know,
asking critical questions, bringing in verse group with different perspectives
(53:01):
and looking at how some of these scenarios might play out,
and then examining, Okay, what do we need to do,
what do we need to change is society living in
this part of North America to create a path for
the Bay Area to achieve an economically strong socially just
and environmentally sustainable future. And i'd really lead you with
that thought, you know, and highlight that that's something a
(53:24):
message I'm taking to different audiences is you know, we
have it in our power. There are these tools. Let's
let's invest energy into reflection on different possible scenarios coming about,
to different forces interacting, and then seize the scenario that
we want and work hard to achieving that together.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Very well say it, my friend very well said. I
couldn't have said it better myself very well said. So, boy,
tell everybody how they can in contact with you, how
they can get a copy of your book and all
that great information.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Sure, if you type in my name, that's Bart in
the last name spelled E D E. S Adesh, which
is no way you'd know that unless you were Hungarian.
But type in Bart's Learning from Tomorrow. Do that at
Amazon dot com or visit your local bookstore which hopefully
is reopened, and you'll find the book there. And as
(54:31):
far as reaching me, for those of you who are
on Twitter, and if you're not, maybe you want to be,
it's a good place to track trends in areas that
interest you, whether it be music or environment or something else.
Go on Twitter and look up at big Trends Guy,
Big Trends Guy altogether one word, and that's where I'm
(54:52):
at and you can reach me there, and I'd love
to hear your ideas about the future and how we
can together formulate a more livable, sustainable and inclusive.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
One bart I had asked mister tim Or the question
in regards to his book, So I'm going to put
that one out there to you as well.
Speaker 5 (55:16):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Have or do you have any thoughts of doing an audiobook.
Speaker 5 (55:25):
At the moment now? Variety of magistical reasons and the
timing of the book, which focused a lot on the
crisis were in presently, so, for example, has some short
term scenarios, and I could I understand the value A
lot of people are using audiobooks, and let me just
say that for the next book when that comes, I
(55:47):
could see easily weaving into that distribution plan and audiobook.
But in this case now it's just that ebooks or
hard talking.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Right, Okay, I'm just thought ask you know, for those
people out there that's on such and such and such
a busy schedule, they don't have time to read, so
they can listen to it. Sure, I understand, I definitely understand.
Sure well, Bart, I definitely enjoyed, you know, the time
we had spending. I want to open the door and
definitely leave it open for you to come back and
(56:18):
join us at any any time. We definitely want to
stay abreast of what's going on. For those people I
actually have their eyes wide openings paying attention, you know,
to the world, and hopefully those are asleep and woke
up during the show and some of the things that
you offered penetrated and get us some food for thought
(56:39):
moving forward. So definitely, Man, anytime, anytime, come back through.
We'd love to have you. And I'm gonna read your
book as well, so I can be a little bit writing,
a little bit more intelligent on some of the subjects
on some of the things that you spoke on the
show today.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
So Mar thank you so much. I really are shiare
the opportunity for joining your program, which has been doing
a fantastic public service and bringing new voices, stimulating thinkers
and authors making their thoughts available to a wider audience.
Urge you to keep it up, and I will do
my small parts in helping to promote awareness of the program.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
So thanks so much, and thank you so much as well, Bart,
and I want to give a shout out to to
mister Tim Ward so making everything possible and doing all
the great things that he's doing. So with that being said,
we'll see you guys next week, same time, And if
you've missed, part of the show to be available worldwide
(57:42):
in the next two minutes. And if you have problems
getting a show, and you know, like I always say,
ask your mama, ask your daddy, ask your neighbor across
the street, the asthmatic as for a supermarket, somebody will
tell you where you could hear the show, so you
have no excuse. And if all that fails, he's in
contact the office here at three through three ninety five
(58:03):
seven seven three two two if we don't want to
miss this, and thanks so much for joining us, and
go check out why nnis got good stuff going on,
all right, see you guys next week, same time, two
thirty ps T.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, yeah, old school, that's what I'm talking about. Listen
this thing for everybody, For some of y'all need to
hear it. I know you're in the trenches fighting, but
check it out. I'm gonna put it down like this
so I can get him sings. Understand everything you're going through.
It's all part of the master plant or what. Just
cause you gotta saved everything, we'll gonna be features the queen.
You better wake up, sohn, don't nothing come to a
(58:42):
super god? What is it? Reach a bible?
Speaker 2 (58:45):
You know what it says?
Speaker 1 (58:46):
He don't work, don't back.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Don't get say it.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah he just said. He hoops his hands to the pot,
looks back to say makes fit. Some of y'all ain't
been in the pitcher five minutes and you're not ready to.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
Queen, I ain't mad. I'm just hitting you with the
wheel if you go for me, I how do you
say that makes you feel?
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Check this out? He's gag. This is ze y'all as
sawing nothing but just stunned trying to read something. But
I thought he was able to position for by his glory.
Strumping might be part of your testimony. But did they
pay to the stoke?
Speaker 5 (59:12):
Now?
Speaker 1 (59:12):
I wanted side way back in the day. Wow, I
think the look right here. See if the church get
my lace working out, working out, we.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Get out? Ye can? Yes she can.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Thinking not slaying the fire reprovert just tried you. You say,
why you what your shirt shake? What would Jesus do?
While you're asking if he ain't trying to do what
he's saying. He told you he was gonna have timulations,
but you thought he was playing one minute, you telling
how good guy it be? Can't nobody missing talk the
next vintage of back fight so fast? I'm like your
moon walking. Oh yeah, I'm listening to myself that I
ain't no better. It ain't like I've been falling at
(01:00:01):
every word of being into the letter.
Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
But we shoulders.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
We gotta remember that. We say, yeah, found down the factor,
stay humble, let him annoy. It ain't even as I
thought it was.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I've been lying up, I told you, but.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
It showed up betting better all the time. That's Ben.
And if we go up to the KP Hill, God
put that on this tub like they said, you can shout.
Now I can walk to because the bam talt me
the book. So why you're talking by don't even shut
You're gonna be on top cut in the hook line
with mokids and you don't stop. Wee can may stop
working up.
Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Let me call you.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
We know it up.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Oh I know we can't make it. We can't anywhere talking,
work it out to get the can?
Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
You get the can?
Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
He is going to work him out for then? Am
I no gooding? Well?
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
He can work it out there?
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Can you get just.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Make this.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Well?
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Looking up, I know we can't make well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I know I'm well to get the can. I get
the can and can get the can if you're then
am I no gooting?
Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
He can work it out
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