April 16, 2024 • 55 mins
What happens when a street brawl becomes a springboard for dissecting race relations and etiquette in today's America? 🧐
Find out in the inaugural episode of Can I Ask You Something?🥊, where your hosts Alex and Justive dive deep into the messy aftermath of a confrontation in Montgomery, Alabama. Alex and Justice explore everything from Emmanuel Acho’s "Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man" 📚 to viral videos that stir the pot, peeling back layers on how race shapes our interactions.
They'll share personal stories of racial profiling, debate the internet’s fiery reactions 🔥, and reflect on the complex history of a museum known for its ties to the slave trade. Ever wonder about the politics of tanning? ☀️
They’re even scratching that surface—all with a sprinkle of humor 😂 because, let's face it, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. SayWHA Radio Network is at it again with ANOTHER podcast? Buckle up, because if we're stirring the pot, you bet it’s gonna be good! 🎧 Listen, learn, laugh, and maybe even challenge how you think about the world around you.
Don't forget to whip up some love for this episode by following on Instagram, and while you're at it, sauté your way over to our SayWHA Shop to grab some sizzling merch for all SayWHA Radio Network Podcasts: SayWHA Shop. 🛍️🎙️
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/can-i-ask-you-something--6152063/support.
Find out in the inaugural episode of Can I Ask You Something?🥊, where your hosts Alex and Justive dive deep into the messy aftermath of a confrontation in Montgomery, Alabama. Alex and Justice explore everything from Emmanuel Acho’s "Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man" 📚 to viral videos that stir the pot, peeling back layers on how race shapes our interactions.
They'll share personal stories of racial profiling, debate the internet’s fiery reactions 🔥, and reflect on the complex history of a museum known for its ties to the slave trade. Ever wonder about the politics of tanning? ☀️
They’re even scratching that surface—all with a sprinkle of humor 😂 because, let's face it, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. SayWHA Radio Network is at it again with ANOTHER podcast? Buckle up, because if we're stirring the pot, you bet it’s gonna be good! 🎧 Listen, learn, laugh, and maybe even challenge how you think about the world around you.
Don't forget to whip up some love for this episode by following on Instagram, and while you're at it, sauté your way over to our SayWHA Shop to grab some sizzling merch for all SayWHA Radio Network Podcasts: SayWHA Shop. 🛍️🎙️
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/can-i-ask-you-something--6152063/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Should I ask you something? Sentit by Say What Radio? Here we
go go. I don't know aboutyou, but I never saw our conversations
as uncomfortable. I had the understandingof, well, if he's asking,
is he's wanting the truth, whetherit's uncomfortable or actually, don't hit him
upside the head. It is whatit is, he acts for it.
(00:30):
I don't know. I think theuncomfortableness comes from kind of the whole idea
behind this podcast is like, Idon't know if it's okay if I ask
this and not is my question okay? But is me asking the question going
to be perceived as okay? Saywhat? Hello? I'm Justice, one
of the hosts of this podcast andfounder of Say What Radio Network. I
(00:54):
wanted to kick this off by sayingthanks again for going on this journey.
You could be anywhere else, butyou're here with us. This episode was
recorded recorded earlier and talk about pastevents, but the discussion is feel worth
listening to. Chiming in on socialmedia, sharing with friends and others,
and please forgive our mic quality.As we were trying to get our setup
(01:19):
straight for this passion project, wewanted to bring into reality without further ado
here is Can I Ask You Something? Thank you for tuning in, Welcome
to Can I Ask You Something?And tonight's episode we are going to be
talking about something that came up basedoff of something that seems to be talked
about across the internet, and ifyou haven't heard about it, you're one
(01:42):
of the lucky few. The brawlheard around the world kind of sparked this
conversation will be immortalized in history andsome aspects of our communities. There was
a alplication that happened in Montgomery,Alabama and sparked some heated debate. Well
actually it wasn't heat of debate.It was just some just talk on why
(02:07):
it was, on etiquette, onrace relations in our country, and honestly,
I was just taking it back onhow how it all came together.
There was some just absolutely hilarious memes, some great creative content that came around
this stuff from that actual incident.But there was one particular incident that came
(02:31):
up, or one particular piece ofcontent that came up that kind of threw
me only because I had never heardthis particular sentiment, but I felt it
and it was something that I wantedto bring up to you, because we
had talked about this guy and talkedabout similar situations before, and since this
podcast kind of dealed in acting thesetypes of things and we've talked had these
(02:57):
conversations and talked about this at length, I decided to throw it up on
this one. So as I said, Alabama brawl for it all, so
to speak, love it, andEmmanuelo decided to throw his two cents in
(03:20):
and try to kind of break itdown for those who didn't necessarily either know
about or had heard about the brawl. And there were a lot of videos
that were made stitching saying or askingAcho to stop, not say anything,
please exit the conversation, leave thechat, because he's not the representative to
(03:44):
talk about this stuff, namely becausehe doesn't represent the black experience here in
America to be able to expound uponthis stuff. And the stems from him
starting a web series. And Ibelieve it was there or maybe even like
weeks after the George Floyd situation intwenty twenty called Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black
(04:11):
Man, And when it came out, it was something I was like,
Oh, that's kind of cool,and it really was something that was different
at the time, and it wasuncomfortable for some people, but it was
him sitting in a white room justkind of talking and expounding on some things
that he felt were uncomfortable topics,which they were for some, but everybody
(04:34):
was like, Okay, he couldhave gone further, and he said he
would be talking more about this anddoing more with it as time went on,
and he did, and he broughton some people, namely, you
know, Roger Goodell. I thinkit was Matthew McConaughey. Yeah, McConaughey
was the big one in the firstguest in the show. Yeah, but
(04:58):
I forgot the other people. Buthe he brought on some some some big
names, and each time you werelike, Okay, that's cool. But
I believe everybody was always like therewere softball situations. It wasn't really uncomfortable.
So it's so it's funny you saythat I think it was uncomfortable for
(05:20):
some. I think it depends onperspective, right, And then I'm just
say I'm I'm very conflicted in thiswhole topic because I've I've been on kind
of both sides of this fence withAcho the whole time. When he when
he first came out. I rememberbecause it was you know, uh,
(05:40):
post George Floyd, so everyone's stillworking from home. Uh, and and
he comes out and he has this, you know, this uncomfortable conversation with
the black man. I'm like,oh, okay, what is what's this
going to be about? And onthe surface of all these topics, they
sound super deep, and so whenwe like when I watched him from perspective,
I was like, oh, yeah, this is deep. And then
(06:03):
nothing else happened, and I waslike, Okay, well, you know,
maybe the next one, maybe thenext one. But it took a
while for me to really kind ofsee that side of it. It really
wasn't until I got into like somede I work within my company where I
was and I kept coming up withthat same thought like, hey, can
we go deeper? Can we godeeper? And I was getting pushed back
on, you know, going quotetoo deep into some of these topics.
(06:27):
And then I started seeing some ofthe parallels. And it's it's funny because
what you know, me and youwould talk about this stuff specifically because you
would want to do more, andyou'd be like, well, I don't
understand why people don't want to dothis. I don't understand why people don't
want to, you know, gothis far and our I don't know about
(06:51):
you, but I never saw ourconversations as uncomfortable. You had the understanding
of, well, if see thathe's wanting the true, whether it's uncomfortable
or actually, don't hit him upsidethe head. It is so, and
(07:11):
some have There have been some thingsthat I've had to walk away from and
like digest for a while before Icould finally be like, Okay, now
I get what you're saying. Let'stry again. But you're right, uncomfortable
is not the word I think.I don't know. I think the uncomfortableness
comes from kind of the whole ideabehind this podcast is like, I don't
(07:33):
know if it's okay if I askthis and not not. Is my question
okay? But is me asking thequestion going to be perceived is okay?
And I mean, we got overthat real fast, but but I know
there's a lot who haven't. AndI would like, I would say I'm
not I'm not nearly as comfortable withsome other people of color that that I
(07:59):
can talk to you, I wouldn'topen up the same depths, you know
what I mean? Yeah, andyou're saying, but what I found was,
and this is why I really wantedto bring the conversation up, especially
about O show when I brought this. When I saw this, I was
talking to Jules, the cool blacknerd fame, and he was just like,
(08:22):
oh yeah, yeah, shout out, shout out to Jewels. He
was just like, oh no,oh, Joe just can't can't do it.
And I was just like, I, He's like why. I was
like, why not. I Icouldn't say I did not get it because
I've always felt it could not.It was something I could not put my
finger on. But once he didit, and he started to tell me
about these, you know, theother videos and stuff that I eventually got
(08:46):
to see, I was more inclinedto understand where it was coming from.
It was just it wasn't that thewhat Oho or Ocho sorry was saying wasn't
disingenuous or anything, but it didseem to come from and you said this
where it felt more of you're notchanging for a generation or wanting to make
(09:09):
a conversation that expounds upon stuff.You're wanting to get the bag you're doing
this coin and that's generally what itfelt like there was no real push for
change or anything with it. Onceyou know, you got the backing from
Oprah, once you got you know, other stuff that went with it,
it really went nowhere. And Iwas hoping that it would because it was
(09:33):
like, Okay, you have this, you have their attention, let's go
a little further. And I knowthat there's a lot of like you said,
some people are just not going tobe able to get there. And
I was talking with Jules on thisand he was just saying, ACHO just
would be in some situations saying thingslike, well that just wasn't you know,
(09:54):
I'm Nigerian. That's just not theblack experience. I don't have the
black experience. Why are you speakingon the issues as if you do,
Because to the people that you're talkingto, they don't see the difference.
You're making the difference now, butthe people that you're talking to, they
don't see the difference. And youknow, that's the way he would try
to get out of it once he'stalking to other black people about this stuff.
(10:18):
And there was one instance that wasit seemed a bit weird, but
I got it when I said,well, maybe it's about perspective. So
there was a host that was onand they kind of took him the task,
and he was just like, well, I never grew up like that,
and the lady was like, well, we grew up together, and
I grew up like that, SoI don't know what you're talking about.
(10:39):
And Jules was like, that justdoesn't make any sense. I don't see
how anybody could do that. AndI said, well, I don't know.
I think I can because I rememberliving here in Houston, specifically,
when I was going to University ofHouston, I had a vanity license plate,
and here in the state of Texas, having a vanity license plate without
showing your you have to show bothlicens plate front and back, and you
(11:05):
could not have a vanity the LIUsplate without showing the other one. I
did not know that. So Ihad my vanity license plate on the front
of my car for a very longtime and never got pulled over, never
had any issues with my car.And Dred would always talk about how he
was always getting pulled over in hiscar for just random stuff. Yeah,
(11:26):
and I'm and I remember thinking tomyself, like, I don't know what
you're talking about. I remember sayingthat to myself until one night we were
coming home from went at the endwe were we saw Kevin Hart at the
improv before he blew up. Stillwould never forget that. I mean absolutely
packed in this little bitty club atthe time to see him and the Plastic
(11:48):
cup Boys. And we were cominghome and at the time Dred drove a
blue like Jaguar X tighte and we'rejust driving home and just got pulled over.
There was no other reason, butwe all got pulled over, and
he was just like, well,where are you guys going. We're like,
we're going home, and he justlike shined the light in the car,
looked all around, just nothing,nothing else, just just had us
(12:09):
all there. And I don't thinkI ever would have been able to say
that I understood what Dradi was talkingabout had I never, you know,
gone through that. So I wassaying to to Jules, maybe that's something
like that that you know, shewas saying, Okay, I grew up
like that, but oh, Ichall never went through that, so maybe
(12:30):
it's you know, perspective like that. I can't really say that had I
not had that experience, that Inever would have been able to relate or
even say to Dradie to Yeah,I don't know if you if you actually
went through that, you know whatI mean, because you literally grew up
with him, right, you wereliterally side by side. Yeah, it's
(12:52):
it's hard. And I think aboutlike an auto's perspective, right, So
yeah, so Nigerian doesn't have thesame perspective that a lot of others do
in the US. Right, Butcan you call him an ally? Right?
Because I run into this sometimes too. I love talking about the race
stuff and like the deeper the better, like the more intense, Like I
(13:15):
love that stuff, but I knowmy role in that is is always in
an ally. So that comes withlike certain boundaries, right, so certain
things that like, like I know, I can't be the face of an
organization that is focused on equity,right if we're trying to advance equity for
(13:35):
racialized cultures, right, I can'tbe the face of that. I can
contribute, I can help, Ican do a lot of things, but
I can't be the face of that. There have been certain conversations that we
have in like our after hours groupwhere you know, like I'm a good
facilitator of conversation, but certain topics, you know, we get to police
(13:56):
brutality, like when a young blackboy dies at the hands of the po
He's like, I'm not the oneto be the face of that, right,
So in a sense, like,is it fair to say, like
because Acho didn't have that same experienceeven though he's black in the United States,
is he an ally in the spaceand does that change anything? Yeah,
(14:18):
don't know. I don't either.It's hard. And I don't know
if you remember this, but yousparked me when we were talking about this.
Do you remember you somehow snuck usinto some like virtual like private call
with Maancho speaking, and we wereboth like, and this was you know,
it was after he had blown upfor a little bit. He was
his popularity was high. He wasI remember we tried to book him for
(14:41):
an event and it was a pricetag to get him in. He was
high demand. But somehow you snuckus into this event and so we're logged
in and we were geeked up likebefore, like we called each other afterwards
like, oh, this is sogood, this is so good. Yeah,
great point, like we were blowingthe chat up. We're in there,
you know, man, this isgreat. I can't believe we have
to do this. And now it'sthat perspective. It's like was it good?
(15:07):
I don't know. I still thinkI still think it was good for
the time, but you can't continueon from that and you're right after you
know, like what what now?It's I hate to say this, and
I'm gonna date the funk out ofmyself, but it's like Janet Jackson,
what have you done for me thatlately? You know, Janets, Yeah
(15:28):
I did that. I did that. I really did that. Yeah,
I don't know. And like theother the other part we talk about all
the time too, is like thisunderstanding for like non racialized cultures, right
for white people like me, itis journey and everybody's starting on these different
points, right, So can wecan we say Acho is a good one
(15:52):
on one level instructor of some ofthese things. Here's the thing, I
don't think he's like he gets alot of hate, and I completely understand
it. I get where people arefrom when they when they come head out
show and when Jewels say he's notthe one, I totally get that.
But I don't think that means there'sno place for him in this journey.
(16:15):
You know What's funny, though Iwould have wholeheartedly agreed with you until it
wasn't until I just watched that videoof this guy just going like, you
know, wat cho no, andyou know such and such, you can't
do this and me I watched thatvideo and then me talking to Jules and
(16:41):
him saying, well, he justdidn't hold him the task and you know,
he had to go deeper. AndI immediately thought of you and those
conversations that we would have and thisis going to be you know, if
you guys have you know, you'renew to this podcast and this pod,
like I'm saying this like we've beenon for you. But there's a term
(17:02):
that Al's has and to this dayit still tickles the fuck out of me.
But it is a very, veryIt is the perfect term for some
of the people that are out therethat he is encountered and that we all
know and have seen. And Isay it, well, well, let
me let me, let me,let me, let me set it up
(17:22):
first. But he would just belike, you can't just let people slide
with this stuff, because you know, they're out there and they have to
do the work and they got todo blah blah blah blah blah. And
I would just be like in mymind when you first started talking about this,
and I'm going like, do youreally want to engage with those people?
And I'm thinking that is where Achowas in his mind frame, and
(17:45):
I'm going like, Okay, nowI see where Al was coming from when
he was talking about go ahead theweekend clan members. These are in case
it needs explanation, these are theones that it will show up during the
week seem normal, seem fine,seem cool, but if you pay attention,
they don't really say anything super relevant. They might Yeah, if you're
(18:10):
you're talking about some of the likeGeorge Floyd for example, if you're you're
talking about what happened and how howterrible it was, uh and and how
you know, we're talking about goingout and we're we're gonna go protest and
do these marches and stuff, they'relike, okay, cool, and that
you don't say anything. You know, you know those hoods are going on
on the weekend and it's not everybody, right, but you know them when
(18:33):
you see them, and you've gotto make that decision to your point,
how much, if any do Iengage with these weekend clan members? Is
this worth my time. Yeah,because we know in these discussions we're not
getting everybody, because that's a ridiculousstatement. However, it's it's the ones
on the fence. I think thatwe spend so much time like targeting,
(18:56):
but we often spend a lot oftime with the people that are on our
We're always talking to the people thatthat we know and agree with us and
we're the same same point of referencebecause that's easier one, but we also
need that to be able to keepgoing and keep getting kicked in on this
discussion. But yeah, the weecan claim member, nobody assigned for you.
(19:21):
You're gonna do what you're gonna do. It's you gets your ahead and
get out. It's funny though,that all of that came about just from
one I think it was like aTikTok video that I saw. All of
this just came about just from onefreaking TikTok little video. And then I
knew we were going to be recordingthis episode, and I was just like,
you know, this is perfect.It's so perfectly some up what we
(19:48):
are trying to say and what hewas I guess he was wanting to say,
but just didn't want to go thatdeep into you know, yeah,
yeah, it's a really it's areally tough space to be in. But
do you want to come back tothe brawl? Would you say the brawl?
Braw for it all, the brawfor it all? I gotta say
it like this whole thing, likewithout you and like funneling this to me
(20:15):
early on. This is not somethingthat came across the radar right away from
me. It took a while forthe algorithm to catch up to this.
But I will say the Internet hasnot been this good since early COVID.
All of it, the creativity,the photoshopping, the editor it is phenomenal.
(20:38):
It really really is it really reallyis. I mean every time I
find a new one, it isjust delightful. And you're right. So,
in the beginning of those video thevideo coming out and pick it with
journalists who were actually posting it,it was being suppressed and taken down by
Facebook. And it wasn't until theywere getting pushed back from other people.
(20:59):
Why are you taking it down?Why are you suppressing this? TikTok was
keeping it up, and I believeit was even on Twitter that it was
still staying up and things like that, and then people you were saying the
Internet didn't want to go deeper.Yeah, yeah, I heard that.
Mmm. But it was after Isaw it. It was just like it
(21:21):
was a flood, a flood ofit. But before then it was very
hard to find because, like Isaid, they were kind of suppressing it.
I think that was kind of thereason why you couldn't find it in
the beginning. Right, man,You're not the only one. I even
had to send it to family andfriends who still hadn't actually seen it,
and I'm just like wow. Butonce it was, that was it.
(21:42):
It was everybody was, you know, just backling away because I mean some
of them are just that stuff needsto be in the Smithsonian. It is
just pure art. Oh yeah.Like and the amount of people that go
straight to like Avengers references and justhow perfect it all ties. It's so
funny. Like I know a lotof these these creators are just up all
(22:06):
night, like Okay, hold on, let's bring Aquaman into this, hold
on, hold on, we needSpider Man in here so bad. And
it all just works. It's sogood. It does, it does,
it does. The one that Ithink still is to this day hilarious,
even if you did not know whatit was good times. Oh my gosh,
(22:30):
that was perfect. It started offa br bru man just trying to
do his job, and then they'relike consequences and starting consequences and repercussions.
Aquamane unk with the chair. Iwas just like the aunties produced by the
ancestors. I was done. Icouldn't. I was done. It's so
(22:53):
good. And the other thing that'snot really getting enough play here is the
government plus at crocs, which wasjust hysterical. Just one shot and and
and that's like to your Smithsonian point, like you take one shot one meat
that just stands out above the rest. It is so funny. This is
(23:14):
this dude, his croc ripped uphis foot and it was taken up like
his whole calf, this whole narrativethat goes around it. It's so good.
And that did and it's there onthe internet forever. Mm hmm redirected.
But you know who's who's taking thatdown? Don't even get me started.
(23:37):
Yeah, But anyways, so Isent this to you, and I
want your take on like what whenyou first saw it, Like what what
you were thinking? So all right, so full disclosure. When I saw
this, I saw the original clipby I don't know if it was a
passenger or a crew member that wason this boat that was trying to dock
(24:02):
and they were filming this was hewhat was his title? He came with
the title he was a captain inthat ship or was he? What was
he? I think it was likea first mate, first mate, right,
all right? So sme right,that was a good reference. So
he's and like, that's gonna that'sgonna catch and we're gonna start seeing a
bunch of Peter Pan references coming innext. So anyways, he's out here
(24:25):
and he's just trying to clear theseboats off the dock, these pontoon boats
or whatever they were. So thisthis ship that always parks there can park
there. And so as I'm watchingthis, I get I get progressively more
nervous as I see it. Sofirst I noticed black Man trying to tell
people to move right, and I'mthinking about all the boating experiences I've had,
(24:48):
and I mean, how many casesof bush light had to have been
drink on that boat that day,and like, what's what's gonna happen?
And as the aggressors come in,they get whiter and whiter oh man,
this is gonna be terrible. Andthen the hat, the hat flies off
(25:11):
of this ship. This is firstmate, you know what's going down.
And and initially that first reaction wasjust like these three dudes beating on him
and my and my initial reaction,my heart sank. It's like we again,
like come on, like can't dothis. But you did call it
a brawl. And so I waitedand I watched the rest of the video
(25:36):
and to see the Avengers show upand and really just say no, we're
not standing for this. This isnot happening today. Like as bad as
the situation was, and like itdidn't you know, all the content stuff
we talk about is good, andthere's you know, there's some arrest made
and like things are progressing. That'sa whole nother conversation. But like,
(25:56):
but that initial braw reaction, youknow, I just saw this clip of
Deon Sanders and he's out in Coloradorunning this program and two of his teammates
started getting into a fight, andmost of the team jumped in on the
fight to either break it up orjust be in it. Right, But
(26:17):
there are a couple guys that hepointed out that we're walking away and Dean
Sanders is screaming at his teammates,not because there was this fight breaking out,
but because there were two dudes,two or three, I forget the
number. A couple guys were walkingaway and he said, if one fights,
we all fight. And instantly Ithought that the brawl to ended all
(26:40):
because that's what it was. Itwas like just bystanders reacting, and for
so long bystanders didn't react. Right, even when we think about like and
it's a little bit different, butlike in the George Floyd the videos and
stuff, we see there's a coupleof different perspectives, a couple of different
videos, and there's people yelling,but nobody is aggressing. Right. Yeah,
(27:02):
I'm not saying that like, youknow, you go attack the police
or anything like that. That's notthe message here. But but you're seeing
people getting upset, but they're notlike they're they're afraid to react. And
so yeah, I was. Iwas heartened to see that there was a
reaction that ultimately led to a governmentplastic crocs being shoved up the calf.
But yeah, very much a rollercoaster and watching that breakdout and you know,
(27:25):
hard and heartening at the same time. Damn. It kind of was
the same thing for for for meas well. But it was strange though,
I'm gonna be honest. When itgot to the point where you saw
the young man who jumped in thewater to start swimming, oh aquaman,
(27:45):
yeah, aquamite, aquamite, Iwas like, yeah, I was like,
I know, I know old tidechange because I know they were over
there and this is you know,something that was you know, spread across
black Twitter and everything like that.But they was like, I know they
(28:08):
over there, Like damn, theyswam, we got here, What did
we do? Guys? Retreat Andbut that was the thing. This man
jumped in there, got out ofthere, swam over there, and then
(28:29):
as soon as he got out,was just like, okay, you're not
about to do this. Man likethis As the other people were coming and
you know, just all hell brokeloose, and it continued to break loose,
and even when the top were there, it was still just hell breaking
loose, even unk with the chairout there smacking motherfuckers. But yeah,
(28:52):
it wasn't until then my heart wasjust sinking. But it was like watching
the fucking Super Bowl for me afterthat and I hate to say it,
but it was just like, ohmy god, your pictures are here for
real, for real, for reallyit was. It was very much just
like they're all coming together, sogood. Let me just give you a
(29:17):
tidbit about me. You may ormay not know this, but I'm a
I don't consider myself a fighter byany means, but I'm always ready to
throw down. Like I'm the onethat walks into a room and all I'm
like trying to analyze the room andwhat's going on, Like where's my escape
plan? What if this goes down? Who am I going after? Like
it's this thing that's been ingraining mefor a while, right, But I
(29:41):
rarely fight. Let me tell you, if I had to jump in the
water and swim over to that fight, I would need a cool twenty minutes
to just catch my breath before Icould even get involved. I might have
to go take a break at thedock before I did it. But kudos
to him for but young man,yeah man, yeah yeah. And it
(30:06):
was heart running to see a lotof people who did kind of see this
for what it was, which wasjust straight up the unnecessary ass altercation between
this man and these people because theyjust wanted to be assholes. Yeah,
and even when they went to thehospital, apparently they didn't want to be
seen by the black hospital staff becausethey felt like they were going to not
(30:30):
give them adequate care. The ironyman. Yeah, and let's talk about
that area for a minute, right, So this is all happening in Montgomery.
And I a couple of years agoon the way, we were going
on a family vacation down to GulfShores, and so we stopped in Montgomery.
(30:53):
We spent the night there by designbecause we wanted to go see Brian
Stevenson's Legacy museum, like downtown.And I don't know the distance from where
this happened to where that happened,but I know I got to think it's
relatively close, right either way,it's Montgomery, And I remember being in
that space and like there was alot of history, and you showed me
(31:15):
some videos of people talking about thehistory of that area and like the significance
of like slave trading. It itwas, if not the highest, one
of the highest ports where slave shipswere coming into in the South, right,
and so like there's obviously a lotof significance there around race. But
(31:36):
as I'm like going through this museum. I'm looking and I'm seeing a lot
of white people, and I wantto think, like, Okay, where
where do you stand on this wholething? Are you coming here because this
is a field trip and your yourparents signed the permission slip and you have
to come here, or is thissomething you're into and interested? And it
was one of the things I sawin the video too, like, yeah,
there were there were certainly it wasa pretty thick black and white division,
(32:01):
but I saw some white dudes throwingpunches against other white dudes right to
like try and break this up.So I mean, let's just talk about
that area for a minute, likethat ad that has to add to the
significance of this, right, what'syour tick? Yeah, it really did.
There was actually a ceremony right beforethat, which I didn't know at
(32:24):
the time that I actually saw theinitial video by some young ladies who blessed
the site, you know, praisingthe ancestors for everything that they had gone
through and things like that. SoI don't know if any of those people
who were there took part in that, the people who on the boat any
(32:45):
of that, but maybe that wasalso them just going Okay, no,
not today. You know, therewas actually what would that be if you
had to go bless the exactly down? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, there
was a a gentleman who is onYouTube and I cannot think of his name
to save my life, but Isent you the video of him explaining that
(33:07):
he's a white man as well,and he was explaining why that was specifically
not the place to be able todo that or even go there. Like
you said, that area, theyshow you where there are the stocks or
the cages where they actually brought peoplein from the trade and held them before
(33:30):
they were moved about around the countryor whatnot, And there's plaques and things
all around specifically stating what that areaand the history there means. So it
wasn't like they didn't know where theywere, and that it's hollow ground for
the most part. So all ofthat could have just been you know,
fueled into them. But those peoplecould have been drunk, they could have
(33:51):
been going through whatever, but theyknew where they were, they knew what
it meant, and they just didnot care. And I believe the guy
who threw the hats did say thefirst mate. I believe later on in
the report that was given that someracist slurs were drawn around towards him,
so when he was asking them tomove the boat. So yeah, and
(34:13):
I wonder how much of that washeard by the people around, you know
what I mean, like or likedid they hear that and see that this
whole situation fishing plane out or didthey just see the you know, the
beating starting to happen. Not thatit matters, just curious right that,
you know what it was. Probablyin the beginning they were just like,
(34:37):
Okay, well you know it's altercation. He's got it handled because they're like,
he's just moving the boat. It'snot that big of a deal.
But I think once they saw punchesthrown, it was a different thing.
So yeah, Well, like Ithink about so one of the weird things
I always do, Like if Igo into a store, I hate when
I hear parents like overly screaming attheir kids. Now I've got a four
(35:00):
and a six year old, Iknow what those store trips can be like,
right, But when the parents likelook like they're about to like hit
their kid in public, or youknow, just start screaming or whatever.
Like if I if I start tonotice signs of it, I always pay
a little bit more attention. I'malways like an aisle away or somewhere nearby,
just just to see what happens.Right, So I guess as a
(35:22):
black woman, like do you doyou do the same thing? Maybe not
for kids, right, but likeif you see another black person getting into
something, do you stick around?Oh yeah, oh yeah. I don't
know if it's instinctual or whatever.I definitely am on got my head on
(35:43):
a swivel, which just like okay, what what is what is about to
happen here? Mm hm so Andunfortunately, I'm like you, I'm not
always ready to fight, but ifI got to, I got to do
what I got to do. ButI always kind of see it in a
they to say it, but it'sit's it's just like, okay, well,
somebody about to get the asked.Well, and I don't I don't
(36:04):
want it to make it sing likethat, but it is kind of how
I see it. When you areyou know, people raise voices and things
like that, it's like okay,what okay. It It's almost like looking
at it in the terminator sense whereyou start, you know, just ascessing
situations and like okay, temperatures areraised, and I can see distresses,
(36:25):
you know, happening in this person. Blah blahlah blah. You you have
been in so many situations like thatthat that that just happens. I didn't
think about it until you just saidthat. But yeah, I definitely guard
is always up. Yeah, andyeah, I don't know, I think
just to to be in that placeat that time and and to have that
(36:50):
right response. Like, I genuinelyhope that the people around and from everything
I've heard, like nobody is beingpunished for you know, starting a brawl
or anything like that, right,but I you know, I hope that
their efforts and reaction are recognized theright way, because I feel like that's
the other part of the story thatalways comes out later when things like this
(37:12):
happen, is so and so wasfired from their job for being a part
of the Alabama brawl or whatever,Like you know, I just I hope
none of that comes to any sortof fruition. Well, I mean,
there's so many videos out there,and like the one that I was,
you know, sent to you thatyou just seem to just absolutely love about
Jane Jacket, Jeff who wanted towho wanted to come to the defense of
(37:38):
the young lady who got hit inthe head with the chair, but he
wanted to defend her, but notnecessarily say anything about the actions that she
was partaking in before, which wastrying her best to beat up on people,
as if that was okay. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
(38:00):
fuck around and find out Yeah,And that was that was the man
the Internet wins again because, likeyou know, when Jean Jack and Jeff
put that video up, he waslike, oh, watch this, I
want to get a lot of likesout of this video. I'm going to
stand up for women, and hegot checked and rightly. So. You
(38:21):
can't show up to a brawl,jump in the brawl, and then be
upset you got hit in the brawl. This is why I don't go to
a lot of rock concerts. Idon't want to get punched in the face.
I cannot I know what's involved.I made a decision. I don't
think Jean Jacket Jeff had been toa lot of rock answer just saying,
(38:42):
on the contrary, I think JeanJack and Jeff has been to too many
rock concerts. Yeah, those weekendclan members don't look like it either.
You had on that note, Ithink that's a perfect place to in our
episode. I wanna thank everybody fortuning in, and uh, if this
(39:06):
didn't scare you all, please tunein for the next episode. Yeah,
we'll be back with way funnier content. Don't worry. It's not well,
it's not going to always be funny. This was just not always. But
I've got some questions, so okay, you can actually ask a question on
this one. Yeah, we wetook a different route here. It was
(39:31):
it was actually me asking you whatwas your take on this stuff? So
because honestly, I in stuff likethis, you never really as as a
black person, you never really getto ask white people that. And I'm
gonna be very very honest, youkind of just react to it with your
friends who are of you know,of a similar race, and even if
(39:53):
you do have someone who is quoteunquote cool, you never really ask what
you think what they think about it. I don't think I ever had anybody
say that other than you. Yeah, and I you know, with I
don't want to get too sappy here, especially right at the end of this,
(40:15):
but it's one of the things thatI appreciate about you most is that
you do ask these questions because youknow, a lot of times like I
don't feel like sometimes I don't feellike I have room for an opinion when
it's you know, something that doesn'tdirectly relate to me. Now I know
that's not, you know, completelytrue, but but I don't feel like
(40:36):
to be asked the question, andto know I'm going to be asked the
question, it really just means alot that you know that the opinion matters.
So thank you for asking the questionsand kicking this off well, you
know, just you know, pumpanyfor content just but you always are.
That's what it's about. When dowe get into like the Tanning discussions,
(40:59):
Jeeves Christ, thank you for tuningin. I cannot get into that right
now. I don't know if Iever can without fucking dying of laughter.
It's gonna be one of those editclips we will have to do that would
have to actually have video, becauseI'm going to be it's gonna happen to
(41:22):
have video. I am going tobe tackling my ass off. There is
no way. There is no freakingway. Joe, Hello, jewels,
Juels, some jewels, Hello,Finish. We just finished first episode of
can I ask you hello, I'veheard of this man. I feel like
(41:46):
there's a celebrity in the room here. Jewels, I've heard your voice so
much. Man is in person?Yeah, it is turn up. I'm
pretty interested to see you have this. How you got the show goes.
So the conversation was on what wewere talking about with Emanuel Ocho. You
(42:07):
still call him Oho keep I don'tknow why I keep saying that. I
want to I don't know oo whateverOcho Sinco is going to get pissed and
we're going to get canceled if youkeep calling Ao ojoo Ocho Emanuel and him
being you know, wanting to bethe ambassador about talking about why the brawl
(42:28):
kind of broke down, you know, break it down for people and things
like that, and so out hasalways been like my go to person for
talking about some of the juice yourtopics when it comes to race for a
white person, Like he'll ask mestuff, and I've told you this,
this is why we wanted to comeup with this, this this podcast.
He'll ask me stuff and I'll askhim stuff. One of his things that
(42:50):
is always kind of gotten me,and we talk about this in the episode
is He's like, you have tokind of push people because there's these weekend
clan members that are out there thatyou can either you know, try and
reach or the people who are kindof like on the fence. I'm really
going after the people who are onthe fence. You may reach a weekend
clan member type person, but Imean we at least need to make them
(43:14):
do the work and stuff like that. I think that type of stuff.
And people were calling I show thetask. I saw them as the same
thing. I saw him being like, Okay, these weekend clan members,
we can't let them off the hook, and people saying I can't be let
off the hook for not going deepenough. And at that point I was
(43:37):
like, you know what, that'swhen he would say that. I was
I never really wanted to go asdeep because I'm like, what's the point.
But I get why he was passionateabout it because he was just like,
it's valuing it. There's a pointto it. It should be they
should do the work. Yeah,I agree with that. Like I think
that example that I told you aboutyesterday when he had that conversation with Matthew
(44:00):
McConaughey and Matthew McConaughey asked him thequestion like when is when are we gonna
have when are we going to bedone saying black lives matter? And I
wish I could remember what Ocho said, but it was like, like I
told her, Al, it wassome some bull jive. It wasn't even
like a good answer. And VanLathan was like, no, the answer
(44:21):
to that question every time is whenpolice stopped killing black people Like that you
could have said that, And Ithink that was for me because like I
watched those those conversations and I didn'tlike them, but I couldn't really express
why. But I felt like thatwas a good example of how I was
feeling about it as I was asI was watching him go through that.
(44:42):
It just wasn't It wasn't what wasneeded at the time, Like those aren't
the Those weren't the conversation, orat least not that way. There was
nothing uncomfortable about those conversations. Anduh, I mean, he probably doesn't
deserve as much smoke as he's gotten, but his response is not helping,
so at this point it's all him. So one of the things we talked
about tonight is it's funny with Thatchobecause he keeps saying I'm not you know,
(45:08):
I didn't grow up like that.I didn't grow up like that,
which is like something I say rightlike, yeah, I didn't grow up
like that. Obviously you can tellme. I look at me, I
didn't grow up like that. Butbut at what point, like, is
he is he an ally? Isthat his role in this thing? Because
I don't. I don't think youcan completely dismiss what he's done because he
one thing Acho really does well ishe makes white people feel comfortable enough to
(45:31):
sit and like at least be engagedin some of these conversations more than they
would have before. But does hego deep enough He'll no, not even
close. And so many of theseeven though when he did with like Lil
Wayne and like mental health and stufflike, there's a lot of things he
could have gone much further on andhe just he just doesn't. But does
that make him like useless to thecause? Uh? I would say at
(45:55):
the time that those were coming out, I would say, yeah, I
think at that time, I don'tthink that was what was necessary. Like
we've we've had those conversations like I'mI'm I'm drawn back to an interview that
Tupac did where he was kind ofexplaining why people riot. He was like,
you know, it started to likeimagine you had like there was a
(46:15):
building, and inside this building everyday they had you know, a buffet
like food. Everybody could eat asmuch as they want, but they didn't
let anybody on the outside of thatbuilding into the building. Initially, the
people outside of the building, theywere probably not act nicely to come in
try to explain the situation, youknow, time and time again. But
(46:37):
every day, as they're getting hungryand hungry or and nothing is changing,
they're gonna get more and more pissedoff. So it's gonna elevate. It's
gonna go from knocking at the doorto now I'm pounding on the door or
maybe I'm outside chanting, singing songsto make sure that you can hear me
outside the door, and that dooris still not being opened. So eventually
(46:58):
we get to the point where they'regonna kick the fuck and Dorian and whoof
some ass right, I don't thinkwe were in the place for let's let's
be comfortable. Let's have it listen, Yeah, let's quietly not let's let's
be friendly so that people will bewilling to listen. I think we were
beyond that at that point. Yeah, super fair point. I still think
(47:21):
his his take was still applicable tothe people who had not even like that
shit was just oblivious to them,like it was a path for them getting
there. Unfortunately, it still kindof blows my mind that people hadn't even
gotten to that place at that point. It is very and Alan and I
(47:44):
talked about that tonight. It isvery, very sad that it literally stopped
for Acho at that point, andyou can see it of him just I'm
doing this to make coin like hewas like I wanted to make the voice
of a generation. I wanted todo this, and you could tell that
that was not something that he waswanting to do because it literally just stopped.
(48:05):
Like if he, you know,continued to go further and actually pushed
on it, I think it wouldhave benefited everybody because it was baby steps
and then actually turned into something likeafter Oprah started getting behind him, after
all these other people started, afteryou made the book, you did this,
that you won the Emmys and thingslike that, like nothing happened.
(48:25):
See, I would I would haveeven been more appreciative if that had happened
in an episode, like sure,start the episode like that, Yeah,
but you don't have to just likethe one with the police officers at the
end of the episode, it wasbasically like, yeah, black people could
be nicer to cops. Come on, man, that was a rough one.
I couldn't even finish that episode.That the little Wayne one. I
(48:49):
completely forgot about that. You broughtthat up, and I'm just like,
damn he did do one with him. I completely forgot about that. Yeah,
yeah, so yeah, I don'tknow. I mean, I do
know. I didn't like it.Yeah, I don't know. I don't
know that. I don't know ifAlice she told you about that what I
was talking about this interview he endedup doing with Van Layton on the podcast
(49:12):
that he has that just went left. Yes, she was like the beginning
of until you said Van Lathan like, I remember hearing abody, I remember
seeing little clips of it, buthe lit him up, Like yeah,
I think that was the beginning ofthe backlash. Yeah, it was.
It was the beginning of the publicbacklash because then uh Cho got defensive and
(49:35):
started trying to attack Van Lathen.Even the co hosts and the cohost wasn't
even really doing anything, like shewas just kind of like taking I'm just
an innocent bystander here, and Ithink both of y'all have done the wrong
thing in this interview and it's stillaired it and all worked out. Did
you ever see uh or here onshow in All the Smoke that podcast with
(50:02):
Stack and how it was his nameBarnes? Is it Matthew Barnes that one?
No, he was, he was, and this was very early on
and they were very much like praisingeverything he was doing. And he's just
like it's hard to say like ifhe's being a chameleon or if he's just
kind of flip flopping to whoever hisaudience is. But like, I mean,
(50:24):
we tried to book him in ourcompany, and like I went as
far as I talked to his agent, uh and we're talking about price,
and he be charged a pretty pennyto come in and do a virtual session
for an hour, and I meanit was almost as much as my first
house cost. Oh yeah, itwas wild. But but you're you're still
(50:46):
pushing that narrative like oh, Oprahcalled me, So you're pushing this soul.
I'm here to change the world,right are you? Are you?
Yeah? Yep, But we shouldbe clearing this. None of this is
a slam one oprah. No.We need to protect her at all costs.
Oh man, somebody need to bearound her with a chair at all
(51:07):
times. Oh wow wow, Butyeah, that's what we talked about,
and you know, got into theThe actual question of tonight was just me
asking him about how he felt seeingthe brad for it all in Alabama.
(51:30):
Initially because like I, like Isaid and explained a lot of times,
you don't get to ask white peoplethat stuff. You'll ask your friends,
you'll ask people of your same raceand stuff. And Alan and I have
a very good relationship when it comesto that stuff, and I just wanted
to be very open about it,so asked him how he saw it,
(51:50):
and it was similar to us upuntil his I think mind changed when I
saw aquamanc his change when the peoplecame down to the thing. So yeah,
a man just watching him swim mademe exhausted. Yeah, it was,
(52:14):
Oh man, that was hilarious.I don't I had to say that
it was hilarious because it shouldn't havebeen, but it was. I mean,
I don't, Yeah, go aheadand say it. Yeah, this
it was. It was funny.I don't I don't know what else to
say about it. And I thinkwhat was really I feel like a lot
of people might have felt the wayabout it that I feel like, I
feel like it was all good untilold body hit that lady with a chair.
(52:37):
At that point I was I waslike, Okay, now we got
to relax a little bit. Youcan't just she already on the ground,
she already got beat up. Youcan't just compress aspine like that. That.
Yeah, you know, it's alwayssomebody that take it a little too
(52:59):
far. And I think he hadjust reached that point at that time.
Yep, I get it. Yeah, I can't tell you a funny story.
So as you as you know,I'm working on my audition tapes for
Survivor. Here's here's a fun fact. So I'm six to one. I've
been six to one since I wasin like seventh grade. But growing up,
like nobody ever like taught me howto swim, so I can always
(53:22):
like touch in every like pool Iwas in, and so it never really
mattered, right, So, becauseI didn't know how to swim, nobody
obviously ever showed me how to likedive into the water. A couple of
weeks ago, we were in Lakeof the Ozarks in Missouri, and I
was, all right, I gottafilm this video. There's a bunch of
water challenges. I gotta get outthere, and I gotta I gotta show
Jeff Probes. I know I amno liability in the water. I must
(53:47):
have jumped off of this dock twentyfive times this weekend. Every time was
a belly flop. If it wasn'ta belly flop, I led with my
face first. By the end ofit, like my vision, I started
going blurry, like I felt likeI had a broken nose. My whole
chest was just like black and bluefrom just smacking off the top of that
water so much. And so Ithink that's really why I relate to Aquamane
(54:14):
for being able to just get inthere, swim over there with and fights
man like you lost me at stepone. Assuming I could make it all
the way to the dock, Iwant to take a twenty minute break,
just a chill, catch my breath, maybe have a snack, not a
snack, And then at some pointhe hit somebody with the rock bottom like
(54:36):
the legitimate. Yeah, rock Bottomwith Yeah, just came over and said
a couple words and it just bam. Yeah, you're right. I did
not see that until somebody pointed thatout a little bit later. You're right.
There was a different angle. Andthere's another thing that somebody pointed out
to me, and I went backand checked the tape. There is no
(54:58):
video footage of the coming down fromthe sky. So the working theory is
that the hat flew around the entirecity to make sure that people would come
to help. That story. That'sso good. I have to send the
TikTok of the guy who is narratingwhat the brawl looks like for someone who
(55:24):
is blind, because they Yeah,somebody put out a call. He was
like, I keep hearing about thisbrawl, Please somebody describe it to me.
And this guy goes into it likea Shakespearean sonnet and it is freaking
hilarious. I have to find thatand send that to y'all. But yeah,
(55:45):
that was the first episode of that'swhat. It sounds good. I'm
looking forward to it. Here wego,
Should I ask you something? Sentit by Say What Radio? Here we
go go. I don't know aboutyou, but I never saw our conversations
as uncomfortable. I had the understandingof, well, if he's asking,
is he's wanting the truth, whetherit's uncomfortable or actually, don't hit him
upside the head. It is whatit is, he acts for it.
(00:30):
I don't know. I think theuncomfortableness comes from kind of the whole idea
behind this podcast is like, Idon't know if it's okay if I ask
this and not is my question okay? But is me asking the question going
to be perceived as okay? Saywhat? Hello? I'm Justice, one
of the hosts of this podcast andfounder of Say What Radio Network. I
(00:54):
wanted to kick this off by sayingthanks again for going on this journey.
You could be anywhere else, butyou're here with us. This episode was
recorded recorded earlier and talk about pastevents, but the discussion is feel worth
listening to. Chiming in on socialmedia, sharing with friends and others,
and please forgive our mic quality.As we were trying to get our setup
(01:19):
straight for this passion project, wewanted to bring into reality without further ado
here is Can I Ask You Something? Thank you for tuning in, Welcome
to Can I Ask You Something?And tonight's episode we are going to be
talking about something that came up basedoff of something that seems to be talked
about across the internet, and ifyou haven't heard about it, you're one
(01:42):
of the lucky few. The brawlheard around the world kind of sparked this
conversation will be immortalized in history andsome aspects of our communities. There was
a alplication that happened in Montgomery,Alabama and sparked some heated debate. Well
actually it wasn't heat of debate.It was just some just talk on why
(02:07):
it was, on etiquette, onrace relations in our country, and honestly,
I was just taking it back onhow how it all came together.
There was some just absolutely hilarious memes, some great creative content that came around
this stuff from that actual incident.But there was one particular incident that came
(02:31):
up, or one particular piece ofcontent that came up that kind of threw
me only because I had never heardthis particular sentiment, but I felt it
and it was something that I wantedto bring up to you, because we
had talked about this guy and talkedabout similar situations before, and since this
podcast kind of dealed in acting thesetypes of things and we've talked had these
(02:57):
conversations and talked about this at length, I decided to throw it up on
this one. So as I said, Alabama brawl for it all, so
to speak, love it, andEmmanuelo decided to throw his two cents in
(03:20):
and try to kind of break itdown for those who didn't necessarily either know
about or had heard about the brawl. And there were a lot of videos
that were made stitching saying or askingAcho to stop, not say anything,
please exit the conversation, leave thechat, because he's not the representative to
(03:44):
talk about this stuff, namely becausehe doesn't represent the black experience here in
America to be able to expound uponthis stuff. And the stems from him
starting a web series. And Ibelieve it was there or maybe even like
weeks after the George Floyd situation intwenty twenty called Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black
(04:11):
Man, And when it came out, it was something I was like,
Oh, that's kind of cool,and it really was something that was different
at the time, and it wasuncomfortable for some people, but it was
him sitting in a white room justkind of talking and expounding on some things
that he felt were uncomfortable topics,which they were for some, but everybody
(04:34):
was like, Okay, he couldhave gone further, and he said he
would be talking more about this anddoing more with it as time went on,
and he did, and he broughton some people, namely, you
know, Roger Goodell. I thinkit was Matthew McConaughey. Yeah, McConaughey
was the big one in the firstguest in the show. Yeah, but
(04:58):
I forgot the other people. Buthe he brought on some some some big
names, and each time you werelike, Okay, that's cool. But
I believe everybody was always like therewere softball situations. It wasn't really uncomfortable.
So it's so it's funny you saythat I think it was uncomfortable for
(05:20):
some. I think it depends onperspective, right, And then I'm just
say I'm I'm very conflicted in thiswhole topic because I've I've been on kind
of both sides of this fence withAcho the whole time. When he when
he first came out. I rememberbecause it was you know, uh,
(05:40):
post George Floyd, so everyone's stillworking from home. Uh, and and
he comes out and he has this, you know, this uncomfortable conversation with
the black man. I'm like,oh, okay, what is what's this
going to be about? And onthe surface of all these topics, they
sound super deep, and so whenwe like when I watched him from perspective,
I was like, oh, yeah, this is deep. And then
(06:03):
nothing else happened, and I waslike, Okay, well, you know,
maybe the next one, maybe thenext one. But it took a
while for me to really kind ofsee that side of it. It really
wasn't until I got into like somede I work within my company where I
was and I kept coming up withthat same thought like, hey, can
we go deeper? Can we godeeper? And I was getting pushed back
on, you know, going quotetoo deep into some of these topics.
(06:27):
And then I started seeing some ofthe parallels. And it's it's funny because
what you know, me and youwould talk about this stuff specifically because you
would want to do more, andyou'd be like, well, I don't
understand why people don't want to dothis. I don't understand why people don't
want to, you know, gothis far and our I don't know about
(06:51):
you, but I never saw ourconversations as uncomfortable. You had the understanding
of, well, if see thathe's wanting the true, whether it's uncomfortable
or actually, don't hit him upsidethe head. It is so, and
(07:11):
some have There have been some thingsthat I've had to walk away from and
like digest for a while before Icould finally be like, Okay, now
I get what you're saying. Let'stry again. But you're right, uncomfortable
is not the word I think.I don't know. I think the uncomfortableness
comes from kind of the whole ideabehind this podcast is like, I don't
(07:33):
know if it's okay if I askthis and not not. Is my question
okay? But is me asking thequestion going to be perceived is okay?
And I mean, we got overthat real fast, but but I know
there's a lot who haven't. AndI would like, I would say I'm
not I'm not nearly as comfortable withsome other people of color that that I
(07:59):
can talk to you, I wouldn'topen up the same depths, you know
what I mean? Yeah, andyou're saying, but what I found was,
and this is why I really wantedto bring the conversation up, especially
about O show when I brought this. When I saw this, I was
talking to Jules, the cool blacknerd fame, and he was just like,
(08:22):
oh yeah, yeah, shout out, shout out to Jewels. He
was just like, oh no,oh, Joe just can't can't do it.
And I was just like, I, He's like why. I was
like, why not. I Icouldn't say I did not get it because
I've always felt it could not.It was something I could not put my
finger on. But once he didit, and he started to tell me
about these, you know, theother videos and stuff that I eventually got
(08:46):
to see, I was more inclinedto understand where it was coming from.
It was just it wasn't that thewhat Oho or Ocho sorry was saying wasn't
disingenuous or anything, but it didseem to come from and you said this
where it felt more of you're notchanging for a generation or wanting to make
(09:09):
a conversation that expounds upon stuff.You're wanting to get the bag you're doing
this coin and that's generally what itfelt like there was no real push for
change or anything with it. Onceyou know, you got the backing from
Oprah, once you got you know, other stuff that went with it,
it really went nowhere. And Iwas hoping that it would because it was
(09:33):
like, Okay, you have this, you have their attention, let's go
a little further. And I knowthat there's a lot of like you said,
some people are just not going tobe able to get there. And
I was talking with Jules on thisand he was just saying, ACHO just
would be in some situations saying thingslike, well that just wasn't you know,
(09:54):
I'm Nigerian. That's just not theblack experience. I don't have the
black experience. Why are you speakingon the issues as if you do,
Because to the people that you're talkingto, they don't see the difference.
You're making the difference now, butthe people that you're talking to, they
don't see the difference. And youknow, that's the way he would try
to get out of it once he'stalking to other black people about this stuff.
(10:18):
And there was one instance that wasit seemed a bit weird, but
I got it when I said,well, maybe it's about perspective. So
there was a host that was onand they kind of took him the task,
and he was just like, well, I never grew up like that,
and the lady was like, well, we grew up together, and
I grew up like that, SoI don't know what you're talking about.
(10:39):
And Jules was like, that justdoesn't make any sense. I don't see
how anybody could do that. AndI said, well, I don't know.
I think I can because I rememberliving here in Houston, specifically,
when I was going to University ofHouston, I had a vanity license plate,
and here in the state of Texas, having a vanity license plate without
showing your you have to show bothlicens plate front and back, and you
(11:05):
could not have a vanity the LIUsplate without showing the other one. I
did not know that. So Ihad my vanity license plate on the front
of my car for a very longtime and never got pulled over, never
had any issues with my car.And Dred would always talk about how he
was always getting pulled over in hiscar for just random stuff. Yeah,
(11:26):
and I'm and I remember thinking tomyself, like, I don't know what
you're talking about. I remember sayingthat to myself until one night we were
coming home from went at the endwe were we saw Kevin Hart at the
improv before he blew up. Stillwould never forget that. I mean absolutely
packed in this little bitty club atthe time to see him and the Plastic
(11:48):
cup Boys. And we were cominghome and at the time Dred drove a
blue like Jaguar X tighte and we'rejust driving home and just got pulled over.
There was no other reason, butwe all got pulled over, and
he was just like, well,where are you guys going. We're like,
we're going home, and he justlike shined the light in the car,
looked all around, just nothing,nothing else, just just had us
(12:09):
all there. And I don't thinkI ever would have been able to say
that I understood what Dradi was talkingabout had I never, you know,
gone through that. So I wassaying to to Jules, maybe that's something
like that that you know, shewas saying, Okay, I grew up
like that, but oh, Ichall never went through that, so maybe
(12:30):
it's you know, perspective like that. I can't really say that had I
not had that experience, that Inever would have been able to relate or
even say to Dradie to Yeah,I don't know if you if you actually
went through that, you know whatI mean, because you literally grew up
with him, right, you wereliterally side by side. Yeah, it's
(12:52):
it's hard. And I think aboutlike an auto's perspective, right, So
yeah, so Nigerian doesn't have thesame perspective that a lot of others do
in the US. Right, Butcan you call him an ally? Right?
Because I run into this sometimes too. I love talking about the race
stuff and like the deeper the better, like the more intense, Like I
(13:15):
love that stuff, but I knowmy role in that is is always in
an ally. So that comes withlike certain boundaries, right, so certain
things that like, like I know, I can't be the face of an
organization that is focused on equity,right if we're trying to advance equity for
(13:35):
racialized cultures, right, I can'tbe the face of that. I can
contribute, I can help, Ican do a lot of things, but
I can't be the face of that. There have been certain conversations that we
have in like our after hours groupwhere you know, like I'm a good
facilitator of conversation, but certain topics, you know, we get to police
(13:56):
brutality, like when a young blackboy dies at the hands of the po
He's like, I'm not the oneto be the face of that, right,
So in a sense, like,is it fair to say, like
because Acho didn't have that same experienceeven though he's black in the United States,
is he an ally in the spaceand does that change anything? Yeah,
(14:18):
don't know. I don't either.It's hard. And I don't know
if you remember this, but yousparked me when we were talking about this.
Do you remember you somehow snuck usinto some like virtual like private call
with Maancho speaking, and we wereboth like, and this was you know,
it was after he had blown upfor a little bit. He was
his popularity was high. He wasI remember we tried to book him for
(14:41):
an event and it was a pricetag to get him in. He was
high demand. But somehow you snuckus into this event and so we're logged
in and we were geeked up likebefore, like we called each other afterwards
like, oh, this is sogood, this is so good. Yeah,
great point, like we were blowingthe chat up. We're in there,
you know, man, this isgreat. I can't believe we have
to do this. And now it'sthat perspective. It's like was it good?
(15:07):
I don't know. I still thinkI still think it was good for
the time, but you can't continueon from that and you're right after you
know, like what what now?It's I hate to say this, and
I'm gonna date the funk out ofmyself, but it's like Janet Jackson,
what have you done for me thatlately? You know, Janets, Yeah
(15:28):
I did that. I did that. I really did that. Yeah,
I don't know. And like theother the other part we talk about all
the time too, is like thisunderstanding for like non racialized cultures, right
for white people like me, itis journey and everybody's starting on these different
points, right, So can wecan we say Acho is a good one
(15:52):
on one level instructor of some ofthese things. Here's the thing, I
don't think he's like he gets alot of hate, and I completely understand
it. I get where people arefrom when they when they come head out
show and when Jewels say he's notthe one, I totally get that.
But I don't think that means there'sno place for him in this journey.
(16:15):
You know What's funny, though Iwould have wholeheartedly agreed with you until it
wasn't until I just watched that videoof this guy just going like, you
know, wat cho no, andyou know such and such, you can't
do this and me I watched thatvideo and then me talking to Jules and
(16:41):
him saying, well, he justdidn't hold him the task and you know,
he had to go deeper. AndI immediately thought of you and those
conversations that we would have and thisis going to be you know, if
you guys have you know, you'renew to this podcast and this pod,
like I'm saying this like we've beenon for you. But there's a term
(17:02):
that Al's has and to this dayit still tickles the fuck out of me.
But it is a very, veryIt is the perfect term for some
of the people that are out therethat he is encountered and that we all
know and have seen. And Isay it, well, well, let
me let me, let me,let me, let me set it up
(17:22):
first. But he would just belike, you can't just let people slide
with this stuff, because you know, they're out there and they have to
do the work and they got todo blah blah blah blah blah. And
I would just be like in mymind when you first started talking about this,
and I'm going like, do youreally want to engage with those people?
And I'm thinking that is where Achowas in his mind frame, and
(17:45):
I'm going like, Okay, nowI see where Al was coming from when
he was talking about go ahead theweekend clan members. These are in case
it needs explanation, these are theones that it will show up during the
week seem normal, seem fine,seem cool, but if you pay attention,
they don't really say anything super relevant. They might Yeah, if you're
(18:10):
you're talking about some of the likeGeorge Floyd for example, if you're you're
talking about what happened and how howterrible it was, uh and and how
you know, we're talking about goingout and we're we're gonna go protest and
do these marches and stuff, they'relike, okay, cool, and that
you don't say anything. You know, you know those hoods are going on
on the weekend and it's not everybody, right, but you know them when
(18:33):
you see them, and you've gotto make that decision to your point,
how much, if any do Iengage with these weekend clan members? Is
this worth my time. Yeah,because we know in these discussions we're not
getting everybody, because that's a ridiculousstatement. However, it's it's the ones
on the fence. I think thatwe spend so much time like targeting,
(18:56):
but we often spend a lot oftime with the people that are on our
We're always talking to the people thatthat we know and agree with us and
we're the same same point of referencebecause that's easier one, but we also
need that to be able to keepgoing and keep getting kicked in on this
discussion. But yeah, the weecan claim member, nobody assigned for you.
(19:21):
You're gonna do what you're gonna do. It's you gets your ahead and
get out. It's funny though,that all of that came about just from
one I think it was like aTikTok video that I saw. All of
this just came about just from onefreaking TikTok little video. And then I
knew we were going to be recordingthis episode, and I was just like,
you know, this is perfect.It's so perfectly some up what we
(19:48):
are trying to say and what hewas I guess he was wanting to say,
but just didn't want to go thatdeep into you know, yeah,
yeah, it's a really it's areally tough space to be in. But
do you want to come back tothe brawl? Would you say the brawl?
Braw for it all, the brawfor it all? I gotta say
it like this whole thing, likewithout you and like funneling this to me
(20:15):
early on. This is not somethingthat came across the radar right away from
me. It took a while forthe algorithm to catch up to this.
But I will say the Internet hasnot been this good since early COVID.
All of it, the creativity,the photoshopping, the editor it is phenomenal.
(20:38):
It really really is it really reallyis. I mean every time I
find a new one, it isjust delightful. And you're right. So,
in the beginning of those video thevideo coming out and pick it with
journalists who were actually posting it,it was being suppressed and taken down by
Facebook. And it wasn't until theywere getting pushed back from other people.
(20:59):
Why are you taking it down?Why are you suppressing this? TikTok was
keeping it up, and I believeit was even on Twitter that it was
still staying up and things like that, and then people you were saying the
Internet didn't want to go deeper.Yeah, yeah, I heard that.
Mmm. But it was after Isaw it. It was just like it
(21:21):
was a flood, a flood ofit. But before then it was very
hard to find because, like Isaid, they were kind of suppressing it.
I think that was kind of thereason why you couldn't find it in
the beginning. Right, man,You're not the only one. I even
had to send it to family andfriends who still hadn't actually seen it,
and I'm just like wow. Butonce it was, that was it.
(21:42):
It was everybody was, you know, just backling away because I mean some
of them are just that stuff needsto be in the Smithsonian. It is
just pure art. Oh yeah.Like and the amount of people that go
straight to like Avengers references and justhow perfect it all ties. It's so
funny. Like I know a lotof these these creators are just up all
(22:06):
night, like Okay, hold on, let's bring Aquaman into this, hold
on, hold on, we needSpider Man in here so bad. And
it all just works. It's sogood. It does, it does,
it does. The one that Ithink still is to this day hilarious,
even if you did not know whatit was good times. Oh my gosh,
(22:30):
that was perfect. It started offa br bru man just trying to
do his job, and then they'relike consequences and starting consequences and repercussions.
Aquamane unk with the chair. Iwas just like the aunties produced by the
ancestors. I was done. Icouldn't. I was done. It's so
(22:53):
good. And the other thing that'snot really getting enough play here is the
government plus at crocs, which wasjust hysterical. Just one shot and and
and that's like to your Smithsonian point, like you take one shot one meat
that just stands out above the rest. It is so funny. This is
(23:14):
this dude, his croc ripped uphis foot and it was taken up like
his whole calf, this whole narrativethat goes around it. It's so good.
And that did and it's there onthe internet forever. Mm hmm redirected.
But you know who's who's taking thatdown? Don't even get me started.
(23:37):
Yeah, But anyways, so Isent this to you, and I
want your take on like what whenyou first saw it, Like what what
you were thinking? So all right, so full disclosure. When I saw
this, I saw the original clipby I don't know if it was a
passenger or a crew member that wason this boat that was trying to dock
(24:02):
and they were filming this was hewhat was his title? He came with
the title he was a captain inthat ship or was he? What was
he? I think it was likea first mate, first mate, right,
all right? So sme right,that was a good reference. So
he's and like, that's gonna that'sgonna catch and we're gonna start seeing a
bunch of Peter Pan references coming innext. So anyways, he's out here
(24:25):
and he's just trying to clear theseboats off the dock, these pontoon boats
or whatever they were. So thisthis ship that always parks there can park
there. And so as I'm watchingthis, I get I get progressively more
nervous as I see it. Sofirst I noticed black Man trying to tell
people to move right, and I'mthinking about all the boating experiences I've had,
(24:48):
and I mean, how many casesof bush light had to have been
drink on that boat that day,and like, what's what's gonna happen?
And as the aggressors come in,they get whiter and whiter oh man,
this is gonna be terrible. Andthen the hat, the hat flies off
(25:11):
of this ship. This is firstmate, you know what's going down.
And and initially that first reaction wasjust like these three dudes beating on him
and my and my initial reaction,my heart sank. It's like we again,
like come on, like can't dothis. But you did call it
a brawl. And so I waitedand I watched the rest of the video
(25:36):
and to see the Avengers show upand and really just say no, we're
not standing for this. This isnot happening today. Like as bad as
the situation was, and like itdidn't you know, all the content stuff
we talk about is good, andthere's you know, there's some arrest made
and like things are progressing. That'sa whole nother conversation. But like,
(25:56):
but that initial braw reaction, youknow, I just saw this clip of
Deon Sanders and he's out in Coloradorunning this program and two of his teammates
started getting into a fight, andmost of the team jumped in on the
fight to either break it up orjust be in it. Right, But
(26:17):
there are a couple guys that hepointed out that we're walking away and Dean
Sanders is screaming at his teammates,not because there was this fight breaking out,
but because there were two dudes,two or three, I forget the
number. A couple guys were walkingaway and he said, if one fights,
we all fight. And instantly Ithought that the brawl to ended all
(26:40):
because that's what it was. Itwas like just bystanders reacting, and for
so long bystanders didn't react. Right, even when we think about like and
it's a little bit different, butlike in the George Floyd the videos and
stuff, we see there's a coupleof different perspectives, a couple of different
videos, and there's people yelling,but nobody is aggressing. Right. Yeah,
(27:02):
I'm not saying that like, youknow, you go attack the police
or anything like that. That's notthe message here. But but you're seeing
people getting upset, but they're notlike they're they're afraid to react. And
so yeah, I was. Iwas heartened to see that there was a
reaction that ultimately led to a governmentplastic crocs being shoved up the calf.
But yeah, very much a rollercoaster and watching that breakdout and you know,
(27:25):
hard and heartening at the same time. Damn. It kind of was
the same thing for for for meas well. But it was strange though,
I'm gonna be honest. When itgot to the point where you saw
the young man who jumped in thewater to start swimming, oh aquaman,
(27:45):
yeah, aquamite, aquamite, Iwas like, yeah, I was like,
I know, I know old tidechange because I know they were over
there and this is you know,something that was you know, spread across
black Twitter and everything like that.But they was like, I know they
(28:08):
over there, Like damn, theyswam, we got here, What did
we do? Guys? Retreat Andbut that was the thing. This man
jumped in there, got out ofthere, swam over there, and then
(28:29):
as soon as he got out,was just like, okay, you're not
about to do this. Man likethis As the other people were coming and
you know, just all hell brokeloose, and it continued to break loose,
and even when the top were there, it was still just hell breaking
loose, even unk with the chairout there smacking motherfuckers. But yeah,
(28:52):
it wasn't until then my heart wasjust sinking. But it was like watching
the fucking Super Bowl for me afterthat and I hate to say it,
but it was just like, ohmy god, your pictures are here for
real, for real, for reallyit was. It was very much just
like they're all coming together, sogood. Let me just give you a
(29:17):
tidbit about me. You may ormay not know this, but I'm a
I don't consider myself a fighter byany means, but I'm always ready to
throw down. Like I'm the onethat walks into a room and all I'm
like trying to analyze the room andwhat's going on, Like where's my escape
plan? What if this goes down? Who am I going after? Like
it's this thing that's been ingraining mefor a while, right, But I
(29:41):
rarely fight. Let me tell you, if I had to jump in the
water and swim over to that fight, I would need a cool twenty minutes
to just catch my breath before Icould even get involved. I might have
to go take a break at thedock before I did it. But kudos
to him for but young man,yeah man, yeah yeah. And it
(30:06):
was heart running to see a lotof people who did kind of see this
for what it was, which wasjust straight up the unnecessary ass altercation between
this man and these people because theyjust wanted to be assholes. Yeah,
and even when they went to thehospital, apparently they didn't want to be
seen by the black hospital staff becausethey felt like they were going to not
(30:30):
give them adequate care. The ironyman. Yeah, and let's talk about
that area for a minute, right, So this is all happening in Montgomery.
And I a couple of years agoon the way, we were going
on a family vacation down to GulfShores, and so we stopped in Montgomery.
(30:53):
We spent the night there by designbecause we wanted to go see Brian
Stevenson's Legacy museum, like downtown.And I don't know the distance from where
this happened to where that happened,but I know I got to think it's
relatively close, right either way,it's Montgomery, And I remember being in
that space and like there was alot of history, and you showed me
(31:15):
some videos of people talking about thehistory of that area and like the significance
of like slave trading. It itwas, if not the highest, one
of the highest ports where slave shipswere coming into in the South, right,
and so like there's obviously a lotof significance there around race. But
(31:36):
as I'm like going through this museum. I'm looking and I'm seeing a lot
of white people, and I wantto think, like, Okay, where
where do you stand on this wholething? Are you coming here because this
is a field trip and your yourparents signed the permission slip and you have
to come here, or is thissomething you're into and interested? And it
was one of the things I sawin the video too, like, yeah,
there were there were certainly it wasa pretty thick black and white division,
(32:01):
but I saw some white dudes throwingpunches against other white dudes right to
like try and break this up.So I mean, let's just talk about
that area for a minute, likethat ad that has to add to the
significance of this, right, what'syour tick? Yeah, it really did.
There was actually a ceremony right beforethat, which I didn't know at
(32:24):
the time that I actually saw theinitial video by some young ladies who blessed
the site, you know, praisingthe ancestors for everything that they had gone
through and things like that. SoI don't know if any of those people
who were there took part in that, the people who on the boat any
(32:45):
of that, but maybe that wasalso them just going Okay, no,
not today. You know, therewas actually what would that be if you
had to go bless the exactly down? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, there
was a a gentleman who is onYouTube and I cannot think of his name
to save my life, but Isent you the video of him explaining that
(33:07):
he's a white man as well,and he was explaining why that was specifically
not the place to be able todo that or even go there. Like
you said, that area, theyshow you where there are the stocks or
the cages where they actually brought peoplein from the trade and held them before
(33:30):
they were moved about around the countryor whatnot, And there's plaques and things
all around specifically stating what that areaand the history there means. So it
wasn't like they didn't know where theywere, and that it's hollow ground for
the most part. So all ofthat could have just been you know,
fueled into them. But those peoplecould have been drunk, they could have
(33:51):
been going through whatever, but theyknew where they were, they knew what
it meant, and they just didnot care. And I believe the guy
who threw the hats did say thefirst mate. I believe later on in
the report that was given that someracist slurs were drawn around towards him,
so when he was asking them tomove the boat. So yeah, and
(34:13):
I wonder how much of that washeard by the people around, you know
what I mean, like or likedid they hear that and see that this
whole situation fishing plane out or didthey just see the you know, the
beating starting to happen. Not thatit matters, just curious right that,
you know what it was. Probablyin the beginning they were just like,
(34:37):
Okay, well you know it's altercation. He's got it handled because they're like,
he's just moving the boat. It'snot that big of a deal.
But I think once they saw punchesthrown, it was a different thing.
So yeah, Well, like Ithink about so one of the weird things
I always do, Like if Igo into a store, I hate when
I hear parents like overly screaming attheir kids. Now I've got a four
(35:00):
and a six year old, Iknow what those store trips can be like,
right, But when the parents likelook like they're about to like hit
their kid in public, or youknow, just start screaming or whatever.
Like if I if I start tonotice signs of it, I always pay
a little bit more attention. I'malways like an aisle away or somewhere nearby,
just just to see what happens.Right, So I guess as a
(35:22):
black woman, like do you doyou do the same thing? Maybe not
for kids, right, but likeif you see another black person getting into
something, do you stick around?Oh yeah, oh yeah. I don't
know if it's instinctual or whatever.I definitely am on got my head on
(35:43):
a swivel, which just like okay, what what is what is about to
happen here? Mm hm so Andunfortunately, I'm like you, I'm not
always ready to fight, but ifI got to, I got to do
what I got to do. ButI always kind of see it in a
they to say it, but it'sit's it's just like, okay, well,
somebody about to get the asked.Well, and I don't I don't
(36:04):
want it to make it sing likethat, but it is kind of how
I see it. When you areyou know, people raise voices and things
like that, it's like okay,what okay. It It's almost like looking
at it in the terminator sense whereyou start, you know, just ascessing
situations and like okay, temperatures areraised, and I can see distresses,
(36:25):
you know, happening in this person. Blah blahlah blah. You you have
been in so many situations like thatthat that that just happens. I didn't
think about it until you just saidthat. But yeah, I definitely guard
is always up. Yeah, andyeah, I don't know, I think
just to to be in that placeat that time and and to have that
(36:50):
right response. Like, I genuinelyhope that the people around and from everything
I've heard, like nobody is beingpunished for you know, starting a brawl
or anything like that, right,but I you know, I hope that
their efforts and reaction are recognized theright way, because I feel like that's
the other part of the story thatalways comes out later when things like this
(37:12):
happen, is so and so wasfired from their job for being a part
of the Alabama brawl or whatever,Like you know, I just I hope
none of that comes to any sortof fruition. Well, I mean,
there's so many videos out there,and like the one that I was,
you know, sent to you thatyou just seem to just absolutely love about
Jane Jacket, Jeff who wanted towho wanted to come to the defense of
(37:38):
the young lady who got hit inthe head with the chair, but he
wanted to defend her, but notnecessarily say anything about the actions that she
was partaking in before, which wastrying her best to beat up on people,
as if that was okay. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
(38:00):
fuck around and find out Yeah,And that was that was the man
the Internet wins again because, likeyou know, when Jean Jack and Jeff
put that video up, he waslike, oh, watch this, I
want to get a lot of likesout of this video. I'm going to
stand up for women, and hegot checked and rightly. So. You
(38:21):
can't show up to a brawl,jump in the brawl, and then be
upset you got hit in the brawl. This is why I don't go to
a lot of rock concerts. Idon't want to get punched in the face.
I cannot I know what's involved.I made a decision. I don't
think Jean Jacket Jeff had been toa lot of rock answer just saying,
(38:42):
on the contrary, I think JeanJack and Jeff has been to too many
rock concerts. Yeah, those weekendclan members don't look like it either.
You had on that note, Ithink that's a perfect place to in our
episode. I wanna thank everybody fortuning in, and uh, if this
(39:06):
didn't scare you all, please tunein for the next episode. Yeah,
we'll be back with way funnier content. Don't worry. It's not well,
it's not going to always be funny. This was just not always. But
I've got some questions, so okay, you can actually ask a question on
this one. Yeah, we wetook a different route here. It was
(39:31):
it was actually me asking you whatwas your take on this stuff? So
because honestly, I in stuff likethis, you never really as as a
black person, you never really getto ask white people that. And I'm
gonna be very very honest, youkind of just react to it with your
friends who are of you know,of a similar race, and even if
(39:53):
you do have someone who is quoteunquote cool, you never really ask what
you think what they think about it. I don't think I ever had anybody
say that other than you. Yeah, and I you know, with I
don't want to get too sappy here, especially right at the end of this,
(40:15):
but it's one of the things thatI appreciate about you most is that
you do ask these questions because youknow, a lot of times like I
don't feel like sometimes I don't feellike I have room for an opinion when
it's you know, something that doesn'tdirectly relate to me. Now I know
that's not, you know, completelytrue, but but I don't feel like
(40:36):
to be asked the question, andto know I'm going to be asked the
question, it really just means alot that you know that the opinion matters.
So thank you for asking the questionsand kicking this off well, you
know, just you know, pumpanyfor content just but you always are.
That's what it's about. When dowe get into like the Tanning discussions,
(40:59):
Jeeves Christ, thank you for tuningin. I cannot get into that right
now. I don't know if Iever can without fucking dying of laughter.
It's gonna be one of those editclips we will have to do that would
have to actually have video, becauseI'm going to be it's gonna happen to
(41:22):
have video. I am going tobe tackling my ass off. There is
no way. There is no freakingway. Joe, Hello, jewels,
Juels, some jewels, Hello,Finish. We just finished first episode of
can I ask you hello, I'veheard of this man. I feel like
(41:46):
there's a celebrity in the room here. Jewels, I've heard your voice so
much. Man is in person?Yeah, it is turn up. I'm
pretty interested to see you have this. How you got the show goes.
So the conversation was on what wewere talking about with Emanuel Ocho. You
(42:07):
still call him Oho keep I don'tknow why I keep saying that. I
want to I don't know oo whateverOcho Sinco is going to get pissed and
we're going to get canceled if youkeep calling Ao ojoo Ocho Emanuel and him
being you know, wanting to bethe ambassador about talking about why the brawl
(42:28):
kind of broke down, you know, break it down for people and things
like that, and so out hasalways been like my go to person for
talking about some of the juice yourtopics when it comes to race for a
white person, Like he'll ask mestuff, and I've told you this,
this is why we wanted to comeup with this, this this podcast.
He'll ask me stuff and I'll askhim stuff. One of his things that
(42:50):
is always kind of gotten me,and we talk about this in the episode
is He's like, you have tokind of push people because there's these weekend
clan members that are out there thatyou can either you know, try and
reach or the people who are kindof like on the fence. I'm really
going after the people who are onthe fence. You may reach a weekend
clan member type person, but Imean we at least need to make them
(43:14):
do the work and stuff like that. I think that type of stuff.
And people were calling I show thetask. I saw them as the same
thing. I saw him being like, Okay, these weekend clan members,
we can't let them off the hook, and people saying I can't be let
off the hook for not going deepenough. And at that point I was
(43:37):
like, you know what, that'swhen he would say that. I was
I never really wanted to go asdeep because I'm like, what's the point.
But I get why he was passionateabout it because he was just like,
it's valuing it. There's a pointto it. It should be they
should do the work. Yeah,I agree with that. Like I think
that example that I told you aboutyesterday when he had that conversation with Matthew
(44:00):
McConaughey and Matthew McConaughey asked him thequestion like when is when are we gonna
have when are we going to bedone saying black lives matter? And I
wish I could remember what Ocho said, but it was like, like I
told her, Al, it wassome some bull jive. It wasn't even
like a good answer. And VanLathan was like, no, the answer
(44:21):
to that question every time is whenpolice stopped killing black people Like that you
could have said that, And Ithink that was for me because like I
watched those those conversations and I didn'tlike them, but I couldn't really express
why. But I felt like thatwas a good example of how I was
feeling about it as I was asI was watching him go through that.
(44:42):
It just wasn't It wasn't what wasneeded at the time, Like those aren't
the Those weren't the conversation, orat least not that way. There was
nothing uncomfortable about those conversations. Anduh, I mean, he probably doesn't
deserve as much smoke as he's gotten, but his response is not helping,
so at this point it's all him. So one of the things we talked
about tonight is it's funny with Thatchobecause he keeps saying I'm not you know,
(45:08):
I didn't grow up like that.I didn't grow up like that,
which is like something I say rightlike, yeah, I didn't grow up
like that. Obviously you can tellme. I look at me, I
didn't grow up like that. Butbut at what point, like, is
he is he an ally? Isthat his role in this thing? Because
I don't. I don't think youcan completely dismiss what he's done because he
one thing Acho really does well ishe makes white people feel comfortable enough to
(45:31):
sit and like at least be engagedin some of these conversations more than they
would have before. But does hego deep enough He'll no, not even
close. And so many of theseeven though when he did with like Lil
Wayne and like mental health and stufflike, there's a lot of things he
could have gone much further on andhe just he just doesn't. But does
that make him like useless to thecause? Uh? I would say at
(45:55):
the time that those were coming out, I would say, yeah, I
think at that time, I don'tthink that was what was necessary. Like
we've we've had those conversations like I'mI'm I'm drawn back to an interview that
Tupac did where he was kind ofexplaining why people riot. He was like,
you know, it started to likeimagine you had like there was a
(46:15):
building, and inside this building everyday they had you know, a buffet
like food. Everybody could eat asmuch as they want, but they didn't
let anybody on the outside of thatbuilding into the building. Initially, the
people outside of the building, theywere probably not act nicely to come in
try to explain the situation, youknow, time and time again. But
(46:37):
every day, as they're getting hungryand hungry or and nothing is changing,
they're gonna get more and more pissedoff. So it's gonna elevate. It's
gonna go from knocking at the doorto now I'm pounding on the door or
maybe I'm outside chanting, singing songsto make sure that you can hear me
outside the door, and that dooris still not being opened. So eventually
(46:58):
we get to the point where they'regonna kick the fuck and Dorian and whoof
some ass right, I don't thinkwe were in the place for let's let's
be comfortable. Let's have it listen, Yeah, let's quietly not let's let's
be friendly so that people will bewilling to listen. I think we were
beyond that at that point. Yeah, super fair point. I still think
(47:21):
his his take was still applicable tothe people who had not even like that
shit was just oblivious to them,like it was a path for them getting
there. Unfortunately, it still kindof blows my mind that people hadn't even
gotten to that place at that point. It is very and Alan and I
(47:44):
talked about that tonight. It isvery, very sad that it literally stopped
for Acho at that point, andyou can see it of him just I'm
doing this to make coin like hewas like I wanted to make the voice
of a generation. I wanted todo this, and you could tell that
that was not something that he waswanting to do because it literally just stopped.
(48:05):
Like if he, you know,continued to go further and actually pushed
on it, I think it wouldhave benefited everybody because it was baby steps
and then actually turned into something likeafter Oprah started getting behind him, after
all these other people started, afteryou made the book, you did this,
that you won the Emmys and thingslike that, like nothing happened.
(48:25):
See, I would I would haveeven been more appreciative if that had happened
in an episode, like sure,start the episode like that, Yeah,
but you don't have to just likethe one with the police officers at the
end of the episode, it wasbasically like, yeah, black people could
be nicer to cops. Come on, man, that was a rough one.
I couldn't even finish that episode.That the little Wayne one. I
(48:49):
completely forgot about that. You broughtthat up, and I'm just like,
damn he did do one with him. I completely forgot about that. Yeah,
yeah, so yeah, I don'tknow. I mean, I do
know. I didn't like it.Yeah, I don't know. I don't
know that. I don't know ifAlice she told you about that what I
was talking about this interview he endedup doing with Van Layton on the podcast
(49:12):
that he has that just went left. Yes, she was like the beginning
of until you said Van Lathan like, I remember hearing abody, I remember
seeing little clips of it, buthe lit him up, Like yeah,
I think that was the beginning ofthe backlash. Yeah, it was.
It was the beginning of the publicbacklash because then uh Cho got defensive and
(49:35):
started trying to attack Van Lathen.Even the co hosts and the cohost wasn't
even really doing anything, like shewas just kind of like taking I'm just
an innocent bystander here, and Ithink both of y'all have done the wrong
thing in this interview and it's stillaired it and all worked out. Did
you ever see uh or here onshow in All the Smoke that podcast with
(50:02):
Stack and how it was his nameBarnes? Is it Matthew Barnes that one?
No, he was, he was, and this was very early on
and they were very much like praisingeverything he was doing. And he's just
like it's hard to say like ifhe's being a chameleon or if he's just
kind of flip flopping to whoever hisaudience is. But like, I mean,
(50:24):
we tried to book him in ourcompany, and like I went as
far as I talked to his agent, uh and we're talking about price,
and he be charged a pretty pennyto come in and do a virtual session
for an hour, and I meanit was almost as much as my first
house cost. Oh yeah, itwas wild. But but you're you're still
(50:46):
pushing that narrative like oh, Oprahcalled me, So you're pushing this soul.
I'm here to change the world,right are you? Are you?
Yeah? Yep, But we shouldbe clearing this. None of this is
a slam one oprah. No.We need to protect her at all costs.
Oh man, somebody need to bearound her with a chair at all
(51:07):
times. Oh wow wow, Butyeah, that's what we talked about,
and you know, got into theThe actual question of tonight was just me
asking him about how he felt seeingthe brad for it all in Alabama.
(51:30):
Initially because like I, like Isaid and explained a lot of times,
you don't get to ask white peoplethat stuff. You'll ask your friends,
you'll ask people of your same raceand stuff. And Alan and I have
a very good relationship when it comesto that stuff, and I just wanted
to be very open about it,so asked him how he saw it,
(51:50):
and it was similar to us upuntil his I think mind changed when I
saw aquamanc his change when the peoplecame down to the thing. So yeah,
a man just watching him swim mademe exhausted. Yeah, it was,
(52:14):
Oh man, that was hilarious.I don't I had to say that
it was hilarious because it shouldn't havebeen, but it was. I mean,
I don't, Yeah, go aheadand say it. Yeah, this
it was. It was funny.I don't I don't know what else to
say about it. And I thinkwhat was really I feel like a lot
of people might have felt the wayabout it that I feel like, I
feel like it was all good untilold body hit that lady with a chair.
(52:37):
At that point I was I waslike, Okay, now we got
to relax a little bit. Youcan't just she already on the ground,
she already got beat up. Youcan't just compress aspine like that. That.
Yeah, you know, it's alwayssomebody that take it a little too
(52:59):
far. And I think he hadjust reached that point at that time.
Yep, I get it. Yeah, I can't tell you a funny story.
So as you as you know,I'm working on my audition tapes for
Survivor. Here's here's a fun fact. So I'm six to one. I've
been six to one since I wasin like seventh grade. But growing up,
like nobody ever like taught me howto swim, so I can always
(53:22):
like touch in every like pool Iwas in, and so it never really
mattered, right, So, becauseI didn't know how to swim, nobody
obviously ever showed me how to likedive into the water. A couple of
weeks ago, we were in Lakeof the Ozarks in Missouri, and I
was, all right, I gottafilm this video. There's a bunch of
water challenges. I gotta get outthere, and I gotta I gotta show
Jeff Probes. I know I amno liability in the water. I must
(53:47):
have jumped off of this dock twentyfive times this weekend. Every time was
a belly flop. If it wasn'ta belly flop, I led with my
face first. By the end ofit, like my vision, I started
going blurry, like I felt likeI had a broken nose. My whole
chest was just like black and bluefrom just smacking off the top of that
water so much. And so Ithink that's really why I relate to Aquamane
(54:14):
for being able to just get inthere, swim over there with and fights
man like you lost me at stepone. Assuming I could make it all
the way to the dock, Iwant to take a twenty minute break,
just a chill, catch my breath, maybe have a snack, not a
snack, And then at some pointhe hit somebody with the rock bottom like
(54:36):
the legitimate. Yeah, rock Bottomwith Yeah, just came over and said
a couple words and it just bam. Yeah, you're right. I did
not see that until somebody pointed thatout a little bit later. You're right.
There was a different angle. Andthere's another thing that somebody pointed out
to me, and I went backand checked the tape. There is no
(54:58):
video footage of the coming down fromthe sky. So the working theory is
that the hat flew around the entirecity to make sure that people would come
to help. That story. That'sso good. I have to send the
TikTok of the guy who is narratingwhat the brawl looks like for someone who
(55:24):
is blind, because they Yeah,somebody put out a call. He was
like, I keep hearing about thisbrawl, Please somebody describe it to me.
And this guy goes into it likea Shakespearean sonnet and it is freaking
hilarious. I have to find thatand send that to y'all. But yeah,
(55:45):
that was the first episode of that'swhat. It sounds good. I'm
looking forward to it. Here wego,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!