April 21, 2021 • 27 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Your local radio station Tie Talk Radio. You're listening to
the talk radio podcast. As we approach May the sixth
(00:24):
and the Senate elections, we're we're conducting a series of
podcasts really looking at the political landscape. You may be
a keen purveyor of the news, and you may have
read recently across many of the news sites some of
the headlines concerning the party leaders and the parties themselves.
(00:54):
We're gonna take a quick sort of hoover up of
those items in the news and look at some of
the political leaders and the parties and what they've had
to say recently. Joining me in the studio as always
is our political analyst Grinoro Jones. You're listening to the
(01:25):
Thaneti Talk radio podcast. Welcome along in the studio with
me today is Grinoro Jones, Grinoro, Kraiso.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Guinoro.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Looking at the news headlines, we can see quite a lot,
you know, as you'd expect in the lead up to
the Senate elections. News sites full of stories, scandal, all
sorts of things relating to the parties and the candidates themselves.
Let's just in all particular order, let's start with Adam Price.
Then right. Adam Price has been asked in the news
(01:55):
now on over the issue of independence. You know what currency,
what are the board is going to be a lot
of what you range in questions that people really would
expect answers to given that it's a major player in
their political manifesto and their their movement. As such, he said,
(02:19):
they can't give some of those answers until they're actually
in power. What do you make of that, Well.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
There's subtruth in what he's just said, but the reality
is it seems like the currency, it seems like head
of state, the monarchy. But as in relation to defense,
they should have a general standard what they stand for,
what the implications are for Whales of independence. But of
(02:46):
course you see the independent Commission that was set up.
I applied covery recently and a book has been published
on it. They're findings. They are giving two options, really
Whales independent within Europe and Wales as a confederation within
the United Kingdom. So therefore I'm not quite sure where
(03:09):
Adam himself stands, But of course it's about time that
they came clear and discussed openly the implications on the currency,
the implications on the funding of Wales and how things
will materialize. It's part of the whole debate, it's part
of the public conversation. So I'm rather surprised that he's
(03:29):
not a bit more forthcoming. He can't possibly say that
he doesn't know. There are obviously ideas going around, but
let's talk about them openly. Is election time? Talk about them?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm looking at some of the recent polls today as well,
and one of them was I know it's a bit trivial, maybe,
but who would make the best first minister? And Adam
Price comes in behind and do what he Davis?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Are you surprised by that?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It goes first of all by the political parties, doesn't it?
I suspect it for his umber one, Andrew Davis is
number two under his number three. The biggest worry if
I was the leader of a Pricomery is this. The
opinion polls are varied in the last two or three
months on the issue of independence, which is the key
(04:17):
Pricumery standard bearer policy. Now twenty five to thirty percent
of the Welsh people are inclined to support independence, but
Pricumbury get less than twenty percent themselves. So if I
was a pri Compery member and a leader and a strategist.
(04:38):
Why is it that there's more support for the independence
movement in Wales than there is for Pricumbury itself. In
other words, are they failed to get their message across?
Is there something that is missing in the whole strategy
or is it a fact that there are people that
support independence that come from other parties as well not
(05:00):
gearing in towards plicombery.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
We've talked about this being the first election where sixteen
year olds are able to vote and PLI Gamery have
announced and places said there will be no youth and employment,
it'll be down to zero. He's made that promise, a
realistic promise. Well, it's a hostage to fortune, isn't it.
And that is the problem you see manifestos. I never
like manifestos back when I was in politics because at the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
End of the day, a lot, a lot of it
is never carried out, a lot of it is window dressing.
But also there are a lot of serious commitments. Now
that is a serious commitment. Okay, he possibly could get
away with it by saying more apprentices, putting more youth,
putting more people on courses in colleges and areas of
(05:51):
that kind. But to actually say that youth unemployment will
be zero is a major major hostage to fortune.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Looking at the finances the economy obviously, that's that's the critical,
the key element for any first minister, any government. Adam
Price has said he would take full personal responsibility for
that economy. There there are some going to be sort
of raised in the alarm bells, aren't there. I mean
we interviewed Helly Mary Johns and we asked her the
question about his business dealings with Idioba where you know,
(06:24):
if you go online his public record company's house, you
can see that there are creditors that are people owed
a lot of money, A lot of public money was
put in there and the firm went. But do you
have concerns they're given, you know, those revelations then, and
his claim that he will be taking personal responsibility for
billions of pounds of the Welsh budget, Well, at the time.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I didn't have concerns. My biggest concerner has always been
about Adam that he promises. He's always a big promise
a guy, a big vision guy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You know, he reminds me so much of good whatevers.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Good for ever is to say all the time, whales
will be free within three years. After he won in
sixty six, then he won in seventy four, whales would.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Be three three and three years. Anthem is a bit
like that. You know it's going to happen in the
next ten years or whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That was my biggest concern about Adam. But having looked
into that story, there is a concern there too that
he had a very unfortunate business experience where it wasn't
twelve months, to be fair, I think it was more
like eighteen months. That the business ran up a debt
of one point two billion, mind within eighteen months, and
(07:33):
owing when it was wound up.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
In twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, I think.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It owed something like six seven hundred thousand, and those
people were never paid. In fact, if I read what
the document said, one hundred and seventy six thousand was
owed to the Welsh government. I'm sure I'm pretty right there.
So yes, there's a concern, but look, you can get
it wrong by going into business. Had dipped his toll
(08:03):
in the business world and he got burnt and he
got it wrong. So if I was him, I would
not say I will take personal charge of the economy.
That's a bit of another hostage to fortune.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Let's look at first Minister Mark drake Foot then, and
we've questioned him over a year really online at the
press conferences, and I remember speaking to him about whether
or not as we approached the election. This was some
weeks back that cynics would say that lifting these restrictions
and giving and giving and all the money coming out
(08:40):
for the people of Wales and organizations was this cynical
electioneering And the BBC have picked that up today. That
is another acquisition they lay at his feet.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Is it a fair acquisition? Well, politics is politics. Politicians
are politicians. For a political leader to put the best
foot forward as they go through the campaign. But I
think to be fair, you know he's handled the COVID
situation fairly well and your pinion polls the Welsh people
(09:15):
give him more credit than is given credit to Johnson,
for instance. But the relaxation is happening everywhere, happening in England,
happening in Wales, happening in Scotland. Whether he is tactically
putting it all together at the right moment, well, I'm
(09:35):
not in the position to say that, but I can
understand why it's happening. But in any case, the pressure
is on, isn't it. People are looking forward to greater
freedom and relaxations. The pressure is there and the Conservatives
and Andrew Davis is putting bigger pressure on. He wants
it hastened up even further than what Drake, whatd is saying.
(09:58):
So I think it's a it's understandable what he's doing,
and I think it's broadly an unfair criticism, but I
know why the criticism is made.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
We have seen a lot of Mark tric foot over
the last twelve months. He's been this sort of figurehead
on television, on radio, He's been everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Really.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The BBC followed him, I TV followed him. His language
has changed slightly. He's using the sort of royal we
when he speaks about issues, we in wills and so on.
Do you think you know there is a difficulty. There
is a problem here, certainly for the other candidate, in
that he's really had free reign. There's been very little challenge,
(10:41):
very little you know, public debate, meetings, discussions, attacks and
so on. He's on a sort of home run, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, certainly the ball is in his court that he
has played it relatively well. Yes, it's politics at the moment.
Is it very funny state, isn't it? As you've just said,
there's been hardly any party politics since March of twenty twenty.
This is for the last year plus and hence political
(11:13):
government leaders Sturgeon, Johnson, Drakeford they've had a free run
because this challenge has been difficult. Parliament is hardly ever
sitting when it sits very few people there all these
zoom meetings people lord zoom meetings has been a great advance.
(11:34):
It actually isn't a great advance. It inhibits debate, It
inhibits structure, you know, analysis and monitoring and questioning. Yes,
so therefore they've had a free run. But unfortunately that's
been the game for the last fifteen months. Looking at
(11:55):
can't blame Drake Ruod for that, can we Looking at
the key issue there again, it keeps quite cropping up,
this independence and Drakefood has been quite clear to a
certain extent, although you would say that he's fudged the
issue really on independence and he wants to remain within
the Union but have far greater powers given down as
(12:16):
almost as a sort of a sweetener. He wants the
criminal justice system, health education, far more powers devolved to
Wales from Westminster in order to do that deal and
stay within the Union.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Is he right?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Is this something that might just affect the vote and
you know work implied's favor.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Well, Wales is divided on this future future governance of
future sovereignty. All poles show that, and it's always been
like that. Wales is a very divided country on how
it governs itself. Remember to even twenty years ago there
was only zero point three percent difference with even the
second referendum be turned down in favor of Assembly then
(13:01):
a Senate as it is now the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
West Liver Party.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
My criticism of the Wells Liver Party is this, I
do not understand why by now they have not set
up a commission to look into the future governance of Wales.
I mean the Senate itself. They've got to address this because,
make no bones about it, all the indications from Westminster.
(13:28):
The indications are that Westminster is trying to take back,
take a bit back more control the Internal Market Bill,
how the British economy has governed, how money is dispersed
to Wales. After we've left the European Union. The Senate
is being bypassed the money the local authorities are applying
(13:49):
directly to London. Now that is a complete undermining of
the situation. I don't understand why Labor is not more assertive.
Are saying we are going to send a set up
a commission to establish and work out the future governance
of Wales, and that would involve the people in a
(14:09):
national conversation. At the moment you've got half a dozen
of them, Carriage Ords, Miles, Anthony Mark himself. They are
hinting at more powers, they are hinting at a federal UK.
They're talking in that direction. But let's be clear, at
least with Prikambrie, you've got the independent stance Broady. That's
(14:34):
where they stand now. Labor needs to clarify better its situation.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Looking now at the Conservatives, then, Drew Artie Davis, we
have you have lived I have lived through Thatcherism, Conservatism
and all that that sort of entailed. We're used to
the salvage cuts. Yet here we have Andrew Artie Davis
promising new hospitals, new schools, more jobs. Is this a
(15:02):
kind of complete turnaround? Is this something that we can
can rely on and trust givenm the track record of
the Tories in certainly in Westminster.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Well he's mimicking, is he a bit of what Johnson
and Sudakam is saying? That things are going to get better.
There will be leveling up across the UK, there will
be more public investment in infrastructure, in roads, in railways
and other things. There will be more hospitals built. What
did Johnson say, forty more hospitals over the next ten
(15:35):
years or whatsoever. So he's following that trend. So he's
talking of the ulief for the M four, the A
fifty and the forty, improving all these roads. My problem
with it all is this country is in dire debt,
over two trillion of national debt. There's going to come
(15:58):
a day of recording. It might not happen now, it's
going to happen towards the end of twenty two. Certainly
in twenty twenty three we'll be talking of increasing taxes.
No one talks about that now. No one talks in
the election of new taxes. But there will be new
taxes halfway through the next Edith.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
The Welsh Conservative chairman Glynn Davis, former MP from Montgomeryshire.
He has said when questions, when questioned about where the
money is coming from and where these hospitals will be
built and so on, these are not answers that I
can give at the moment. You know, you need to
ask Andrew Artie Davis about day. You shocked by that.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Well, yes, it's ridiculous that you know, he's part of
the team that that wrote the manifesto, is the chairman
of the party in Wales. What does this say? They
made a promise but they've not got no clue whether
the hospitals are going to be Now that is so
blatant electioneering. But then they're not alone. You know, I've
got to be even undered in this. Other parties are
(17:00):
given into this promise game. But that's a classic example
of what I'm on about. We're going to spend more
Boddy on the National Health Service? Where you're going to
spend this? Mister Davis, Oh, I don't know, I can't
tell you yet says it.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
All really looking then that Let's just say the Tories
do get into a Welsh government, do you do you
think that they would get a better deal given that
you know, Westminster They're all in the same bed, don't they.
There they are, Boris Johnson, the Westminster government, Conservative government.
They're not going to punish and dow Arty, Davis and
(17:36):
the west Conservatives. They're going to give them a biggert
slice of the cake, can't they.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, that has been.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The standard claim by both Labor and the Tories over
the years. You know, get our party in Westminster and
in Wales on the same wavelength and we're about to
benefit more. Well, common sense says that if you are,
if there's a Conservative government in London and a Conservative
(18:01):
administration in Wales, yes the relationship is going to be
much closer. It will work better. Now whether it works
to the betterment of Wales is a totally different to
zoo because as I've just answered you, there is going.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
To be a day of reckling.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
The furlough will cost the massive mendays that's been spent
over the last year and a half. There will be
a day of reckling. There will be a day of
by payback, there will be tax raises. So, whether there's
a Conservative government in the center as well as in Westminster,
what happens in the UK economy end of twenty two
(18:40):
twenty three will materially affect things in Wales, but yes,
they will work closer together. And you can see that
in what Artie Davis is saying. He's claiming that Drakefoot
is making far too much claim that Wales has.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Its own way.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He's tried to he's tried to roll back a bit
of devolution. He has tried to weaken devolution. He doesn't
say so, but it's your candidates, by the way, who's
standing for the Senate who want to abolish the Assembly.
There are two or three of them who came out
openly in the last three or four months on that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Let's look at some of the parties that are on
the edge den that have been there and stand to
gain a couple of seats possibly or or sort of
vanish into the ether. Lip Dean's quite interesting because we
interviewed Jane Dodds a while ago and we asked her
if her time was spent, if the party's days were over,
and she said, on the journey sort of continues, really,
(19:42):
but we have a situation really between her and William
Powell in Brecken and Ragnasha, and she just shed a
bit of light on that.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, that's going to be an interesting seat, isn't it.
Bill is under a lot of pressure because Kirsty Williams
had made that safe seat a very safe seat for
the Liberal Democrats, and no doubt Kirsty had a personal
following that it built up over twenty years, so he's
really under threat. The great irony of that situation is,
(20:11):
of course, if Bill wins and retains the seat, the
chances of Jane getting the regional seat for Mid and
West Wales is pretty low.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the reverse also applies. Should will not.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Retained for the Lib Dems Breckel and Rudder, Jane's chances
of becoming an am is greatly improved on the regional list.
I'm rather sorry about the Liberal Democrats, as you know
his public knowledge. I was quite quite senior for donkeys
years and I'm still a paid up member by the way,
(20:48):
but non active.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't go any world or anything.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
What's happened to the Liberal Democrats and the West liberl
Democrats over the last ten to fifteen years has been
sad and it should never have but by the way,
it is now well on the periphery of Welsh politics,
and the big question is are we going to visits
for the first time. No representative of the Welsh liber
(21:13):
Democrats in our National Assembly.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We've also got a look at I know you're not
a fan of Neil Hampton. We've got to look at UKIP.
They were a party really that were sort of their
strength was on Brexit. That was done. He claimed victory
in that. Now he wants to abolish the Assembly. He
says that is a miasma of political corruption. You KIP
(21:36):
predicted to in one seat. Do you think they will
get that? Do you think Hambleton will be back in No, Well.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's a heck of a straight answer to give you.
I don't think so. It isn't that I haven't got
much time for Hamblitton. I just disagree with his politics.
You know, Brexit is a big issue for me, Leaving Europe.
Europe has always been the biggest issue for me my
whole political life. It caused me problems. What I was
for Europe inside the Labor Party in the years of
(22:02):
the Labor Party was against Europe. But I've stuck with
my guns on Europe. So that's the biggest issue for me.
On Hamilton, UKIP was a one issue party. It came
into being via Farage to stop and get out of Europe.
That was their sole reason for existence. And they did
(22:23):
very well last time in Wales on the back of
that because Wales also voted marginally, but he still voted
to leave.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That issue was gone.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So and Farage is gone and Farage set up a
new party and he's even gone out of that. The
Reform Party is no longer the leader of it. But
then you've got other people like Mark Reckless and other
people who were u keep They went to some other party.
I don't know where Mark is now. Is he abolished
the Assembly Party?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I don't know. No.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I think they're in a bit of a shambolic statue.
Are they that the one issue was gone for them
and they can never replace that.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
They will obviously have following and traditionally it is sort
of working class right wing.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And so on.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Abolish the Welsh Assembly, I mean, it's sort of like
a comedy show. Really, you're electing somebody to go into
a parliament that they don't want to exist. One can
only sort of, you know, imagine the questions that the
sen is if they do get a seat. You know,
what are your views on this particular issue? Well, I
(23:33):
have none. I don't want to speak, I don't acknowledge
or don't want to be part of this institution. It's
quite fascical, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Well, it is inconsistent, it's not fascical. That's what you
keep it. They went to the European Parliament, twenty odd
of them or more than twenty odd of them, they
wanted to abolish the European Assembly European Parliament. So it's
happened before. Abolished the Assembly is a more serious threat
(24:01):
to Welsh politics than people realize. There is a cohort
of people in Wales that I reckon is around fifteen
percent that actually want to abolish the Assembly now. That
is unbelievable. After twenty years they want to get rid
of it now. There are serious questions there. By the way,
that's another podcast. Why are there so many people in
(24:26):
Wales against the continuance of the of the Assembly? What
is the problem against the continuance of the Senath? Is
it the problem of the Saiath? The ways conducted itself?
Is decision making process? It's image or what is it?
But the reality is a prettion pole show. By the way,
(24:46):
although they differ that they could win about four seats,
now that would be amazing, But then you keep.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
One six seats.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So on the other hand, who knows who knows they're
in there with a chout to get some list seats.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Let's finish on the Greens. Then sixteen year olds to vote.
Biggest issue for young people days climate change. There could
be a surprise here, couldn't there With the sixteen year olds,
the Greens could get something.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I have a great admiration for the Greens.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I once suggested twenty thirty years ago or less than that,
that people should if I was if I was a
member of Parliament, or if I wasn't active in politics,
I would love to be a member of the Greens
and the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Labor because that is
my politics.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I'm that sort of person. So I have a great
lot of regard.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For the Greeds and they are treated unfairly. Why because
of the voting system, because of the lack of proportional representation,
just why the Liberal Democrats are the same. So yes,
young I suspect more young people will vote for the Greeds.
They deserve a breakthrough, and I hope they will have
(25:57):
a breakthrough. To be honest, I would like to see
the Assembly having one or two members of the Green
Party in it. I think that is a fairer representation
of the Welsh voice. But whether it's going to happen
because the voting system is the voting system could be
against them. And what is more, it's going to be
(26:18):
a very odd election, isn't it? Very difficult campaigning and
there we go, let's see what happens.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There we go. I think we've taken a paintbrush over
the whole of Welsh politics today. My thanks as always
to Gwenoro Jones. We hope you've enjoyed this delve into
politics and political life in Wales. As always we want
(26:49):
your views email editor at lenellionline dot news. We'd love
to hear from you. Coming up soon we will be
putting another podcast together looking at the individual manifestos of
the political parties. For now, this is Lenette Talk Radio, myself,
(27:15):
Alan Evans and Guenora Jones saying goodbye for Nowid
Your local radio station Tie Talk Radio. You're listening to
the talk radio podcast. As we approach May the sixth
(00:24):
and the Senate elections, we're we're conducting a series of
podcasts really looking at the political landscape. You may be
a keen purveyor of the news, and you may have
read recently across many of the news sites some of
the headlines concerning the party leaders and the parties themselves.
(00:54):
We're gonna take a quick sort of hoover up of
those items in the news and look at some of
the political leaders and the parties and what they've had
to say recently. Joining me in the studio as always
is our political analyst Grinoro Jones. You're listening to the
(01:25):
Thaneti Talk radio podcast. Welcome along in the studio with
me today is Grinoro Jones, Grinoro, Kraiso.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Guinoro.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Looking at the news headlines, we can see quite a lot,
you know, as you'd expect in the lead up to
the Senate elections. News sites full of stories, scandal, all
sorts of things relating to the parties and the candidates themselves.
Let's just in all particular order, let's start with Adam Price.
Then right. Adam Price has been asked in the news
(01:55):
now on over the issue of independence. You know what currency,
what are the board is going to be a lot
of what you range in questions that people really would
expect answers to given that it's a major player in
their political manifesto and their their movement. As such, he said,
(02:19):
they can't give some of those answers until they're actually
in power. What do you make of that, Well.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
There's subtruth in what he's just said, but the reality
is it seems like the currency, it seems like head
of state, the monarchy. But as in relation to defense,
they should have a general standard what they stand for,
what the implications are for Whales of independence. But of
(02:46):
course you see the independent Commission that was set up.
I applied covery recently and a book has been published
on it. They're findings. They are giving two options, really
Whales independent within Europe and Wales as a confederation within
the United Kingdom. So therefore I'm not quite sure where
(03:09):
Adam himself stands, But of course it's about time that
they came clear and discussed openly the implications on the currency,
the implications on the funding of Wales and how things
will materialize. It's part of the whole debate, it's part
of the public conversation. So I'm rather surprised that he's
(03:29):
not a bit more forthcoming. He can't possibly say that
he doesn't know. There are obviously ideas going around, but
let's talk about them openly. Is election time? Talk about them?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm looking at some of the recent polls today as well,
and one of them was I know it's a bit trivial, maybe,
but who would make the best first minister? And Adam
Price comes in behind and do what he Davis?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Are you surprised by that?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It goes first of all by the political parties, doesn't it?
I suspect it for his umber one, Andrew Davis is
number two under his number three. The biggest worry if
I was the leader of a Pricomery is this. The
opinion polls are varied in the last two or three
months on the issue of independence, which is the key
(04:17):
Pricumery standard bearer policy. Now twenty five to thirty percent
of the Welsh people are inclined to support independence, but
Pricumbury get less than twenty percent themselves. So if I
was a pri Compery member and a leader and a strategist.
(04:38):
Why is it that there's more support for the independence
movement in Wales than there is for Pricumbury itself. In
other words, are they failed to get their message across?
Is there something that is missing in the whole strategy
or is it a fact that there are people that
support independence that come from other parties as well not
(05:00):
gearing in towards plicombery.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
We've talked about this being the first election where sixteen
year olds are able to vote and PLI Gamery have
announced and places said there will be no youth and employment,
it'll be down to zero. He's made that promise, a
realistic promise. Well, it's a hostage to fortune, isn't it.
And that is the problem you see manifestos. I never
like manifestos back when I was in politics because at the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
End of the day, a lot, a lot of it
is never carried out, a lot of it is window dressing.
But also there are a lot of serious commitments. Now
that is a serious commitment. Okay, he possibly could get
away with it by saying more apprentices, putting more youth,
putting more people on courses in colleges and areas of
(05:51):
that kind. But to actually say that youth unemployment will
be zero is a major major hostage to fortune.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Looking at the finances the economy obviously, that's that's the critical,
the key element for any first minister, any government. Adam
Price has said he would take full personal responsibility for
that economy. There there are some going to be sort
of raised in the alarm bells, aren't there. I mean
we interviewed Helly Mary Johns and we asked her the
question about his business dealings with Idioba where you know,
(06:24):
if you go online his public record company's house, you
can see that there are creditors that are people owed
a lot of money, A lot of public money was
put in there and the firm went. But do you
have concerns they're given, you know, those revelations then, and
his claim that he will be taking personal responsibility for
billions of pounds of the Welsh budget, Well, at the time.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I didn't have concerns. My biggest concerner has always been
about Adam that he promises. He's always a big promise
a guy, a big vision guy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You know, he reminds me so much of good whatevers.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Good for ever is to say all the time, whales
will be free within three years. After he won in
sixty six, then he won in seventy four, whales would.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Be three three and three years. Anthem is a bit
like that. You know it's going to happen in the
next ten years or whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That was my biggest concern about Adam. But having looked
into that story, there is a concern there too that
he had a very unfortunate business experience where it wasn't
twelve months, to be fair, I think it was more
like eighteen months. That the business ran up a debt
of one point two billion, mind within eighteen months, and
(07:33):
owing when it was wound up.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
In twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, I think.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It owed something like six seven hundred thousand, and those
people were never paid. In fact, if I read what
the document said, one hundred and seventy six thousand was
owed to the Welsh government. I'm sure I'm pretty right there.
So yes, there's a concern, but look, you can get
it wrong by going into business. Had dipped his toll
(08:03):
in the business world and he got burnt and he
got it wrong. So if I was him, I would
not say I will take personal charge of the economy.
That's a bit of another hostage to fortune.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Let's look at first Minister Mark drake Foot then, and
we've questioned him over a year really online at the
press conferences, and I remember speaking to him about whether
or not as we approached the election. This was some
weeks back that cynics would say that lifting these restrictions
and giving and giving and all the money coming out
(08:40):
for the people of Wales and organizations was this cynical
electioneering And the BBC have picked that up today. That
is another acquisition they lay at his feet.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Is it a fair acquisition? Well, politics is politics. Politicians
are politicians. For a political leader to put the best
foot forward as they go through the campaign. But I
think to be fair, you know he's handled the COVID
situation fairly well and your pinion polls the Welsh people
(09:15):
give him more credit than is given credit to Johnson,
for instance. But the relaxation is happening everywhere, happening in England,
happening in Wales, happening in Scotland. Whether he is tactically
putting it all together at the right moment, well, I'm
(09:35):
not in the position to say that, but I can
understand why it's happening. But in any case, the pressure
is on, isn't it. People are looking forward to greater
freedom and relaxations. The pressure is there and the Conservatives
and Andrew Davis is putting bigger pressure on. He wants
it hastened up even further than what Drake, whatd is saying.
(09:58):
So I think it's a it's understandable what he's doing,
and I think it's broadly an unfair criticism, but I
know why the criticism is made.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
We have seen a lot of Mark tric foot over
the last twelve months. He's been this sort of figurehead
on television, on radio, He's been everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Really.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The BBC followed him, I TV followed him. His language
has changed slightly. He's using the sort of royal we
when he speaks about issues, we in wills and so on.
Do you think you know there is a difficulty. There
is a problem here, certainly for the other candidate, in
that he's really had free reign. There's been very little challenge,
(10:41):
very little you know, public debate, meetings, discussions, attacks and
so on. He's on a sort of home run, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, certainly the ball is in his court that he
has played it relatively well. Yes, it's politics at the moment.
Is it very funny state, isn't it? As you've just said,
there's been hardly any party politics since March of twenty twenty.
This is for the last year plus and hence political
(11:13):
government leaders Sturgeon, Johnson, Drakeford they've had a free run
because this challenge has been difficult. Parliament is hardly ever
sitting when it sits very few people there all these
zoom meetings people lord zoom meetings has been a great advance.
(11:34):
It actually isn't a great advance. It inhibits debate, It
inhibits structure, you know, analysis and monitoring and questioning. Yes,
so therefore they've had a free run. But unfortunately that's
been the game for the last fifteen months. Looking at
(11:55):
can't blame Drake Ruod for that, can we Looking at
the key issue there again, it keeps quite cropping up,
this independence and Drakefood has been quite clear to a
certain extent, although you would say that he's fudged the
issue really on independence and he wants to remain within
the Union but have far greater powers given down as
(12:16):
almost as a sort of a sweetener. He wants the
criminal justice system, health education, far more powers devolved to
Wales from Westminster in order to do that deal and
stay within the Union.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Is he right?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Is this something that might just affect the vote and
you know work implied's favor.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Well, Wales is divided on this future future governance of
future sovereignty. All poles show that, and it's always been
like that. Wales is a very divided country on how
it governs itself. Remember to even twenty years ago there
was only zero point three percent difference with even the
second referendum be turned down in favor of Assembly then
(13:01):
a Senate as it is now the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
West Liver Party.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
My criticism of the Wells Liver Party is this, I
do not understand why by now they have not set
up a commission to look into the future governance of Wales.
I mean the Senate itself. They've got to address this because,
make no bones about it, all the indications from Westminster.
(13:28):
The indications are that Westminster is trying to take back,
take a bit back more control the Internal Market Bill,
how the British economy has governed, how money is dispersed
to Wales. After we've left the European Union. The Senate
is being bypassed the money the local authorities are applying
(13:49):
directly to London. Now that is a complete undermining of
the situation. I don't understand why Labor is not more assertive.
Are saying we are going to send a set up
a commission to establish and work out the future governance
of Wales, and that would involve the people in a
(14:09):
national conversation. At the moment you've got half a dozen
of them, Carriage Ords, Miles, Anthony Mark himself. They are
hinting at more powers, they are hinting at a federal UK.
They're talking in that direction. But let's be clear, at
least with Prikambrie, you've got the independent stance Broady. That's
(14:34):
where they stand now. Labor needs to clarify better its situation.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Looking now at the Conservatives, then, Drew Artie Davis, we
have you have lived I have lived through Thatcherism, Conservatism
and all that that sort of entailed. We're used to
the salvage cuts. Yet here we have Andrew Artie Davis
promising new hospitals, new schools, more jobs. Is this a
(15:02):
kind of complete turnaround? Is this something that we can
can rely on and trust givenm the track record of
the Tories in certainly in Westminster.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Well he's mimicking, is he a bit of what Johnson
and Sudakam is saying? That things are going to get better.
There will be leveling up across the UK, there will
be more public investment in infrastructure, in roads, in railways
and other things. There will be more hospitals built. What
did Johnson say, forty more hospitals over the next ten
(15:35):
years or whatsoever. So he's following that trend. So he's
talking of the ulief for the M four, the A
fifty and the forty, improving all these roads. My problem
with it all is this country is in dire debt,
over two trillion of national debt. There's going to come
(15:58):
a day of recording. It might not happen now, it's
going to happen towards the end of twenty two. Certainly
in twenty twenty three we'll be talking of increasing taxes.
No one talks about that now. No one talks in
the election of new taxes. But there will be new
taxes halfway through the next Edith.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
The Welsh Conservative chairman Glynn Davis, former MP from Montgomeryshire.
He has said when questions, when questioned about where the
money is coming from and where these hospitals will be
built and so on, these are not answers that I
can give at the moment. You know, you need to
ask Andrew Artie Davis about day. You shocked by that.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Well, yes, it's ridiculous that you know, he's part of
the team that that wrote the manifesto, is the chairman
of the party in Wales. What does this say? They
made a promise but they've not got no clue whether
the hospitals are going to be Now that is so
blatant electioneering. But then they're not alone. You know, I've
got to be even undered in this. Other parties are
(17:00):
given into this promise game. But that's a classic example
of what I'm on about. We're going to spend more
Boddy on the National Health Service? Where you're going to
spend this? Mister Davis, Oh, I don't know, I can't
tell you yet says it.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
All really looking then that Let's just say the Tories
do get into a Welsh government, do you do you
think that they would get a better deal given that
you know, Westminster They're all in the same bed, don't they.
There they are, Boris Johnson, the Westminster government, Conservative government.
They're not going to punish and dow Arty, Davis and
(17:36):
the west Conservatives. They're going to give them a biggert
slice of the cake, can't they.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, that has been.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The standard claim by both Labor and the Tories over
the years. You know, get our party in Westminster and
in Wales on the same wavelength and we're about to
benefit more. Well, common sense says that if you are,
if there's a Conservative government in London and a Conservative
(18:01):
administration in Wales, yes the relationship is going to be
much closer. It will work better. Now whether it works
to the betterment of Wales is a totally different to
zoo because as I've just answered you, there is going.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
To be a day of reckling.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
The furlough will cost the massive mendays that's been spent
over the last year and a half. There will be
a day of reckling. There will be a day of
by payback, there will be tax raises. So, whether there's
a Conservative government in the center as well as in Westminster,
what happens in the UK economy end of twenty two
(18:40):
twenty three will materially affect things in Wales, but yes,
they will work closer together. And you can see that
in what Artie Davis is saying. He's claiming that Drakefoot
is making far too much claim that Wales has.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Its own way.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He's tried to he's tried to roll back a bit
of devolution. He has tried to weaken devolution. He doesn't
say so, but it's your candidates, by the way, who's
standing for the Senate who want to abolish the Assembly.
There are two or three of them who came out
openly in the last three or four months on that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Let's look at some of the parties that are on
the edge den that have been there and stand to
gain a couple of seats possibly or or sort of
vanish into the ether. Lip Dean's quite interesting because we
interviewed Jane Dodds a while ago and we asked her
if her time was spent, if the party's days were over,
and she said, on the journey sort of continues, really,
(19:42):
but we have a situation really between her and William
Powell in Brecken and Ragnasha, and she just shed a
bit of light on that.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, that's going to be an interesting seat, isn't it.
Bill is under a lot of pressure because Kirsty Williams
had made that safe seat a very safe seat for
the Liberal Democrats, and no doubt Kirsty had a personal
following that it built up over twenty years, so he's
really under threat. The great irony of that situation is,
(20:11):
of course, if Bill wins and retains the seat, the
chances of Jane getting the regional seat for Mid and
West Wales is pretty low.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the reverse also applies. Should will not.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Retained for the Lib Dems Breckel and Rudder, Jane's chances
of becoming an am is greatly improved on the regional list.
I'm rather sorry about the Liberal Democrats, as you know
his public knowledge. I was quite quite senior for donkeys
years and I'm still a paid up member by the way,
(20:48):
but non active.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't go any world or anything.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
What's happened to the Liberal Democrats and the West liberl
Democrats over the last ten to fifteen years has been
sad and it should never have but by the way,
it is now well on the periphery of Welsh politics,
and the big question is are we going to visits
for the first time. No representative of the Welsh liber
(21:13):
Democrats in our National Assembly.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We've also got a look at I know you're not
a fan of Neil Hampton. We've got to look at UKIP.
They were a party really that were sort of their
strength was on Brexit. That was done. He claimed victory
in that. Now he wants to abolish the Assembly. He
says that is a miasma of political corruption. You KIP
(21:36):
predicted to in one seat. Do you think they will
get that? Do you think Hambleton will be back in No, Well.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's a heck of a straight answer to give you.
I don't think so. It isn't that I haven't got
much time for Hamblitton. I just disagree with his politics.
You know, Brexit is a big issue for me, Leaving Europe.
Europe has always been the biggest issue for me my
whole political life. It caused me problems. What I was
for Europe inside the Labor Party in the years of
(22:02):
the Labor Party was against Europe. But I've stuck with
my guns on Europe. So that's the biggest issue for me.
On Hamilton, UKIP was a one issue party. It came
into being via Farage to stop and get out of Europe.
That was their sole reason for existence. And they did
(22:23):
very well last time in Wales on the back of
that because Wales also voted marginally, but he still voted
to leave.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That issue was gone.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So and Farage is gone and Farage set up a
new party and he's even gone out of that. The
Reform Party is no longer the leader of it. But
then you've got other people like Mark Reckless and other
people who were u keep They went to some other party.
I don't know where Mark is now. Is he abolished
the Assembly Party?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I don't know. No.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I think they're in a bit of a shambolic statue.
Are they that the one issue was gone for them
and they can never replace that.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
They will obviously have following and traditionally it is sort
of working class right wing.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And so on.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Abolish the Welsh Assembly, I mean, it's sort of like
a comedy show. Really, you're electing somebody to go into
a parliament that they don't want to exist. One can
only sort of, you know, imagine the questions that the
sen is if they do get a seat. You know,
what are your views on this particular issue? Well, I
(23:33):
have none. I don't want to speak, I don't acknowledge
or don't want to be part of this institution. It's
quite fascical, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Well, it is inconsistent, it's not fascical. That's what you
keep it. They went to the European Parliament, twenty odd
of them or more than twenty odd of them, they
wanted to abolish the European Assembly European Parliament. So it's
happened before. Abolished the Assembly is a more serious threat
(24:01):
to Welsh politics than people realize. There is a cohort
of people in Wales that I reckon is around fifteen
percent that actually want to abolish the Assembly now. That
is unbelievable. After twenty years they want to get rid
of it now. There are serious questions there. By the way,
that's another podcast. Why are there so many people in
(24:26):
Wales against the continuance of the of the Assembly? What
is the problem against the continuance of the Senath? Is
it the problem of the Saiath? The ways conducted itself?
Is decision making process? It's image or what is it?
But the reality is a prettion pole show. By the way,
(24:46):
although they differ that they could win about four seats,
now that would be amazing, But then you keep.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
One six seats.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So on the other hand, who knows who knows they're
in there with a chout to get some list seats.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Let's finish on the Greens. Then sixteen year olds to vote.
Biggest issue for young people days climate change. There could
be a surprise here, couldn't there With the sixteen year olds,
the Greens could get something.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I have a great admiration for the Greens.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I once suggested twenty thirty years ago or less than that,
that people should if I was if I was a
member of Parliament, or if I wasn't active in politics,
I would love to be a member of the Greens
and the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Labor because that is
my politics.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I'm that sort of person. So I have a great
lot of regard.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For the Greeds and they are treated unfairly. Why because
of the voting system, because of the lack of proportional representation,
just why the Liberal Democrats are the same. So yes,
young I suspect more young people will vote for the Greeds.
They deserve a breakthrough, and I hope they will have
(25:57):
a breakthrough. To be honest, I would like to see
the Assembly having one or two members of the Green
Party in it. I think that is a fairer representation
of the Welsh voice. But whether it's going to happen
because the voting system is the voting system could be
against them. And what is more, it's going to be
(26:18):
a very odd election, isn't it? Very difficult campaigning and
there we go, let's see what happens.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There we go. I think we've taken a paintbrush over
the whole of Welsh politics today. My thanks as always
to Gwenoro Jones. We hope you've enjoyed this delve into
politics and political life in Wales. As always we want
(26:49):
your views email editor at lenellionline dot news. We'd love
to hear from you. Coming up soon we will be
putting another podcast together looking at the individual manifestos of
the political parties. For now, this is Lenette Talk Radio, myself,
(27:15):
Alan Evans and Guenora Jones saying goodbye for Nowid
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