March 18, 2025 • 25 mins
In this insightful episode of The Catering Cage, host Erle Dardick speaks with Andrew Nakkache, Co-founder and CEO of FIRST (YC W19), about revolutionizing catering delivery. Andrew shares FIRST's journey from managing their own delivery fleet to becoming a technology company that connects restaurants with delivery providers through their innovative Delivery Display System. The conversation explores the high-stakes nature of catering delivery, strategies for scaling operations beyond five deliveries per day, and the importance of a hybrid approach where restaurants handle VIP orders personally while leveraging partners for routine deliveries. Both experts emphasize relationship-building with key clients and menu consolidation as essential tactics for success in today's challenging market.
Sponsored by:
OPGA: Off Premise Growth Academy - Join tight-knit communities for catering sales, operations, catering in the c-suite, and catering technology. Find a group that’s right for you and elevate your catering! https://opga.academy/
CateringTech #RestaurantOperations #DeliveryInnovation
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
Sponsored by:
OPGA: Off Premise Growth Academy - Join tight-knit communities for catering sales, operations, catering in the c-suite, and catering technology. Find a group that’s right for you and elevate your catering! https://opga.academy/
CateringTech #RestaurantOperations #DeliveryInnovation
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Period morning. Everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Catering Cage,
where we do everything here that's related to catering. We
are very lucky and fortune in our community, have amazing
thought leaders, and we have supply chain partners who are
doing fabulous work in the space. We have operators who
are advancing their strategy in the space. You know, delivery
is always something that is some that is difficult to operators,
(00:37):
especially Director Luy So managing your own fleets, acquiring your
own vehicles, managing your own insurance and getting drivers. You know,
this is always a very complex landscape. And in this environment,
of course, we all have access to what our delivery partners.
And today I'm very excited to bring on a wonderful guest.
I've met him recently in the last year, and his
name is Andrew. And Andrew's going to join us. And Andrew's
(00:58):
the first delivery and he is here to tell us
all about what he's up to. We're going to talk
about catering. We're gonna do all that stuff, but before
we do, before we do, and this is important because
I hear, I hear you're very passionate skier.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like to ski. I like to skik not so passionate,
passionate enough. You know I've been I was that was three.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
So I like to ski, you know, but it's hard
to ski a lot if you don't live right by
the mountain.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, that's for sure. So where are you Where do
you live?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm in Seattle, so mountains are mountain.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well you're very close to us and easy access, so
you're going to come skiing. We're going to talk about
cater and we talk about delivery. Where you do that.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, well we'll just wait. We just need some snow.
So we're waiting for some snow because it's been a
dry season. But anyways, I digress. Andrew, thanks for joining me.
I really appreciate it. Uh. You know, our viewers want
to hear all about, uh, you know, the innovations you
might be up to, where you're having successes, where the
challenges are for operating or specific as it relates to
(02:02):
getting their deliveries out the door. I also want to
talk to like, what is the differentiation for your organization?
What is it that's different for you that you know
versus sort of the complex landscape of potential partners. So
where do you want to start up to you?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I mean, we can dive right in.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
How about this? Why don't you give us like, how
did your story begin? Can you tell us that? Uh?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So we started off as a delivery fleet ourselves. So
the four founders went to school together at Temple University.
We you know, graduated started the business while we were
in school, and so we rolled right into it right
after school. And at the time, we were offering restaurants
delivery as a service, so they would get orders from
grub ub, Uber, door, Dash, easy cater wherever they got
(02:50):
orders from, and we would do all the delivery fulfillment.
And so we did that for a while. The you know,
we got to five hundred drivers. The problem was it
was too hard to scale beyond that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Right and why why? What was it? What was the
issue for you?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's just when you have that many people, you know,
it's a lot of drivers, a lot of restaurants, and
it's very hard to do that profitably. Frankly, so you know,
a huge testament to the companies that have been able
to do that. Congrat but it's very challenging when you're
operating twenty hours a day, seven days a week, you know,
(03:26):
waking up for the bagel place at seven am and
closing with Papa John's at four am on a Friday.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, totally amazing. So what happened after that? So you
got you got to the point where you sort of
were stuck. I guess imagine a lot of manual systems.
You know, you took you took the service to market,
You had some good feedback, you know, identify all these challenges, right,
and so what what what happened after that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
What happened after that? So you know, we got to
three million dollars in revenue.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
We were doing you know, about fifty thousand deliveries per
month and and and was mid COVID and at that
time there was a labor shortage where it was really
hard to find labor, and so we were seeing that
our growth was starting to get flat and we were like, well,
(04:14):
what are we going to do now? We know we
can't scale this without a huge injection of capital and
be willing to lose money per delivery. So that that
was one challenge. And then what we saw was that
a new opportunity emerged, right, and that the best way
to offer restaurants the best service was to build a
(04:34):
network of fleets rather than solely rely on our own, right,
and that's what we did. So we spent this was
twenty twenty one. We spent the next year year and
a half, you know, we sold off the delivery fleet.
We then focus on the technology. We re architectural platforms
(04:56):
so we could take any order and send it to
any fleet.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Great, So let's talk about that the technology for a
moment now that you brought it up, Like, so, uh
so you see yourself as a tech company now or
is that what you see? Is that what you are? Yeah? Okay,
so that's that's huge, And so I'll followup the widget
just for lack of another term, Okay, the widgets, which
is like the I would call it the end to
(05:19):
end tool that you've built for operators to leverage. Tell
us about that, like what is it about that tool?
And how do how do food service operators interact with
the tool? Okay? And then out and then how does
the tool interact with the DSPs I guess or the
delivery service providers that you're in your network? And then
(05:41):
how do you reconcile the transactions or like where do
you play in the ecosystem in terms of order management
and how do the orders get to you? And how
do they get injected, and how they manage you know,
do you manage menu? And I have a whole bunch
of questions for you, but let's just you know, just
from a high view, like what is the widget? Yep?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So the widget right is we have essentially have a
little tablet app.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
We've simplified it as much as possible, right, and we
call it a DDS, right, a delivery display system. You
have a kitchen display system for your kitchen, right, you
have a DDS for your front of house.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And for these restaurants, how they use the widget today
is they'll get orders from wherever they get orders from.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
We have some.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Integrations in house and so on, but largely that restaurant's
already using a different order aggregator. They're using something like
Chaalie or Stream or Olo Rails or whatever they're using,
and whatever they're using to get all those orders into
the POS. Then then POS or that aggregator is just
(06:46):
sending the orders to First we receive that order, and
then from there we make it really easy for restaurants
to either manually or automatically assign those deliveries to their own.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Drivers or external drivers or both.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, So like a dispatch tool essentially is would you
you know, I would say, is what you've built there? Okay?
So that's great. So we understand where you are in
the ecosystem and in terms of data that gets passed
to you, in terms of like the information that comes
through to you, are you getting the menu level sorry,
menu item level information as well?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We typically get all that data. It's not required.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
The data that's required for us to do a delivery
is the customer name, the customer phone number, the delivery address.
Right then you data usually comes through not all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But yes, okay, really cool. And so in your learnings
and as you're you know, you and the team are
dealing with large value catering orders, right or doing doing
that as well? Like in your view, like how does
it make it different? Like how how how is catering
delivery different than take our delivery?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So catering delivery is the stakes are much higher, right,
you can either be ten minutes early or ten minutes late.
If you're outside of that window, you're either too early
or too late.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
And and the cost of a bad experience isn't going
to cost you, you know, tens.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Dollars or maybe one hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
It can cost you thousands of dollars potentially much more
if that's very high, so high reward, right, and uh
and so and and so that's that's the biggest thing
that our our platform helps support.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Excellent, great, and so as you advance and as you
move forward, uh, you know what is on the horizon
for you? What are like, where will you continue to
bring value for the food for food service operators and
why should they you know, why should they reach out
to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
For sure?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think that you know, and not to make this
like all about us, right, but I think overall, for
businesses that want to take catering seriously, doing one catering
delivery per store per day is pretty manageable, right, It's
not really too complex. It can be managed. I think
that where our sweet spot is really for stores that
(09:17):
want to do five per day per store or more, right,
and that's where.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It becomes much more complex.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And that's where it's important to be able to have
multiple fleet options so when things go wrong, right, you
can quickly adjust on the fly and preserve that customer
experience amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I think that's consistent, probably Andrew, with what we're
seeing in the tech space right we see I would
call it like comprehensive catering solutions versus non comprehensives, you know.
And depending on where you are as an operator in
that spectrum, depends on how ready you are for the
(09:58):
implementational selection the right technology, you know. Like so to
your point, if you're doing one or two orders a day,
you know, you could probably put it in your pos
or like you know whatever, use online ordering, et cetera,
et cetera. But when you start getting into five, seven,
eight orders a day, that breaks down, you know, so
you're now getting into much more sophisticated operation, you know, wonderful. So,
(10:24):
you know, in terms of like your technology ecosystem as
you as you reach out to partners and so I
imagine you're accessing the APIs to order management systems and
you're doing Is that like an ongoing effort? Is that
something you're investing in?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, you're always adding more, right, But we have integrations
with OLO, and you know, lots of large online ordering
providers out there, uh and so on, and uh, you know,
lots of restaurants will use us to do their easy
cater orders right on sell.
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Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, and so what advice would you give to operators
in terms of like what can they do to make
it easier for your guys when they arrive? Like what
what's it? Right? So, like, what is what is it
that operators can streamline to make it easy for you?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yep, I think that one of the most important things
is to set up your not just us, but really
our delivery providers, our partners.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So we partner with fleets like deliver.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
That delivered, Door, dash Ulf and so on, and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Really important that they get those orders.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Call it twenty four hours in advance, right if you
wait till like the morning of to put in the
delivery request. You're not really setting up the delivery provider
for success. If they do end up taking that delivery,
maybe it's not going to an experienced driver, right, And
so I think it's very important that number one, like
(12:25):
have you know those orders in and submitted and dispatched
as far in advance as possible. And number two, I
also think that it's really important to know have your
bag labeling or however you do that on point, make
it very easy set like all the things that can
go wrong because there are various humans in the loop.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You reduce your.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Risk, Okay, yeah, and that's interesting in itself. I mean essentially,
you know, we need to leave some room though, like
there's some there's some last minute dynamics in the catering business, right.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I agree, And that's where I think that your team
should come into play rights. It's kind of like, you know,
the stuff that you know is going to is happening,
you still want to be able to take that last
you know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That same day order right right right right, that's where
you maybe.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You have your GM on staff and that's a great
part of our platform.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
We send out the same track link.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
It doesn't matter DoorDash is a delivery or your own driver,
your own job.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, okay, so as much pre planning as you can. Strategy,
you know, is to dispatch those orders out to a
partner who can do the deliveries for you as much
advanced notice as you can at least a day. I
would say, I would think, and then leave some space
for you know, these sort of last minute, high risk
situations and handle those yourself. I think is kind of
(13:48):
the message you're providing.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I think, yeah, And I think it's great to do
deliveries yourself, as the owner or the franchise, you know,
the GM, whoever it is right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Now, I agree, I agree with that. I mean, I
mean I I I've always felt that the hybrid model
of reserving, like those special clients or like you know,
like when I had the deli years, I mean, listen,
it was like you know, we have we haven't. We'd
have a lot of orders. There might be twelve orders
going out. One was five thousand, and the rest of
them were all small orders, you know, so we would
(14:18):
we would handle the five thousand, you know, that was
the one, and then the rest of them we would,
you know, in those days of his careers or like
whatever we had to do to get their orders out
to the to the customers, you know. So I think
I think it's important for operators to keep their thumb
on the aspects of delivery and not just think they
can be hands off because to your point, I mean,
(14:39):
there's dispatching to think about, there's technology to think about.
Somebody has to have oversight and all these deliveries because
so many things can go wrong in the process and
it's all customer service after that point. So it's like,
it's not that things aren't going to go wrong. They are,
it's how well you deal with them is going to
be the differentiator, you know, keep you in the game,
(15:00):
you know, in terms like turning turning you know, those
those critical moments into opportunities is really the exercise, right,
it's all it's all relationship driven, you know. So I agree,
and I love what you're saying. You know, I think
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Question for you.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So I had that big five thousand dollars order, right,
and that was the first time the customer would order
for you.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
What was your pitch to get them to come to
order again?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sorry you're asking me.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So the big order, the big order, big order comes in,
it's a huge order. Right, corporate, you know they can
order again. You want to get them to order again. Right,
what's what's your what's your pitch? What's the offer?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You know? For me, it's less of a pitch and
more of like you know, can operate or slow down
long enough where we're like, if you see like an
order of that's that magnitude. You know, like the CEO
of the brand should call that customer andrew like it's
just like to me, it's less about the pitch, right,
and more and more about the relationship. Take take a
(16:05):
brand like I don't the RB's, I don't pick I
pick up brand Arby's. Okay. In the system, you know,
there's franchisees that have hundreds of stores, a big system. Okay,
So at least at that level, you might have a
franchise e that has one hundred units. That CEO of
that franchise ee should have his or her thumb on
the catering customers, at least the big one. You should
(16:27):
have the ability to run reports to show me my
top ten customers this week. Here's their phone numbers. Pick
up the phone and say thank you. That's my pitch. Okay,
and then if you do that, that becomes dinner conversation. Okay,
I called me, you know, yeah, because nobody doesn't know anymore. Listen,
(16:50):
I just have this expedy experience. This week is disaster.
I just I will never you know, for those who
are listening, Expedia is done in my life. I'm just
it's been so difficult to make some adjustments and things,
and it's just like so, you know, and I've been
a loyal customer for a long time and I'm done,
Like that's it. They lost me now, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So Dar went to Uber you know stars.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yea, and yeah, well I think that like what happens
is these companies just completely lose touch with with as
we move into this automation and consolidation and get bigger
and get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, you know,
to the point where you sort of have these you know,
oligoplity type situation situations in these markets, and and there's
(17:31):
just like, you know, anyways, whatever we can go on
forever and here it's just it's all on. Listen today,
it feels like it's unraveling, okay, And what's happening in
the world.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, I'm from Philadelphia. That is a company called
Comcast there that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to get political, but anyways,
it's just this is a tough time and actually, let's
talk about that for a moment. I think we're you know,
this is a very there's a there's a very tough
time in the world to be in business. You know,
don't know, like all these terroiffts are coming in and
all the stuff that's happened, all the disruptions going on,
like so like you know, what's going to happen to operators,
(18:07):
Like what should they do? Like their supplies are going up,
you know, consumers are going to fill it, they're going
to stop spending. We're heading maybe you know, who knows
what's gonna happen. We don't know any of it. But
what's your what's your advice to any operators listening? Andrew
this year?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like I think that, uh, you know, I want to
I think I might have mentioned this to you. I
do want to start a restaurant one day, very simple
concept and Panada concept.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Three menus.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We talked. We talked about this. I think we had
a long conversations. Yeah, we did. We did. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, Look, if you invite me to Whistler, I'll bring
you up back.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You're invited. You're invited, bring the panpanadas and come skin.
There we go. There you go publicly, publicly. Everyone heard.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's Ben's it's We're shaken on it. It's done, all.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right, listen. The biggest issue I'm facing at the moment
is my battery is down twelve percent.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Okay, all right, hopefully it deprives a little bit long.
But I think that the biggest piece of advice a
couple of things. One is I would try to consolidate
your menu as much as you can, because the kitchen
logistics are as challenging, if not more challenging, than the
delivery logistics.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And so like really understand your prep times and your
menu items and and really like what you know, what
can you produce with one or two cooks, and how
much food can you produce?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Because you should have much better unit economics than one
off meals.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's like preparing a family meal for a meal for
a family versus yourself. Right, it takes just about the
same amount of time, right, but you're preparing four meals
instead of one, and so I think that's that's the
biggest thing. I think the other big thing is, like
which you already alluded to, you took my you stole
my thunder is know who your customers are. Right For
most restaurants, their customers are anonymous on third party like
(19:52):
and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Right, the beautiful part about catering is it's much easier
to know who your customers are, and the ROI is
out size. It's it's so much larger to own the
relationships with those customers.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean practical advice. You heard it right there. Listen.
You know, we got to get practical. Reducing complexity in
the operation is critical in this process. We need we
need to go from more volume. We've got to reach
back out to our communities and sell more services. That's
where catering comes in, and we got to get in
touch with our customers, who are now all going to
feel pinched, you know, because they are just there's so
(20:30):
much pressure and so much you know, craziness in the
world right now. That's just very uncertain. People are nervous
and you know, the markets are coming down hard, you know,
you know, here we are again, you know, So it's
like keeping sane in the process and as a business person,
whether you know it's certainly North America. You know, I'm
thinking to myself, like, what would I do, you know
(20:51):
in this environment, you know, if I had, you know,
an operation, which I don't anymore, but you know, these
are there challenging environment. It's just like wow, So I
am going to work hard, very very hard, and you're
to help operators do more catering. And I know you
are as well, which is amazing and uh uh, you know,
(21:14):
super excited to see you know where you're going, what
you're doing. And you know, one of the things I
noticed about you, just as you know, as people who
haven't met you, well, you know, when I met you, uh,
you know, you're I would say, like your laughter is contagious.
You've got a great sense of humor. I love your
ability to you know, just kind of go with it.
(21:34):
And you're just like you know, you're you're You're good,
You're good. You know, any investor and any investors that
are listening, this is a great horse to bet on
Andrew nothing, You're a horse.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But no, no, I mean I don't even know if
we'll take your money. We're pretty good on cash we're
profitable now as a company.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay, well that's exciting, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It's been a long journey, you know, we h you know,
ups and downs, but now we're in a really good spot.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And long how long? How long?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How long?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What? How long the journey?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
When you start in the journey, it's it's been over
eight years.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Now not so long?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So long. Fels long and I feels long. But in
your very young short life, it's long. But in the
end of the day, in that it'll be fun to
watch you and see what happened.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Right. I read the other day.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I think that like Ovo took eight years to get
to like a million dollars in ar R, which is incredible, right,
you know, and I think, uh, you know, I mean
that just kind of it's a great story of entrepreneurship, right,
you stay long enough.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's not sexy, so it's a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Time, you know, it's not fun, But as long as
you have a team, it makes things a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know, it's all about that tipping point, you know,
that's what starts to happen. So you know, stay true
to yourself, you know, keeps court of your vision, keep
driving forward. You know, if you stop believing, everybody else
stops believing. So you can't do that. And but you
got to be careful you don't believe your own bullshit
because that happens, you know, people do that all the time.
(23:11):
So the thing in any entrepreneurial venture, and I know
lots of people listen to this podcast or in their
own businesses, is the way through is through pivoting. Right,
You're always pivoting. You're always pivoting. You're always pivoting. And
that's not easy. Even the biggest companies have to pivot.
But as you get bigger, that gets way harder, right,
and you have to build that. You have to build
(23:33):
that pivoting entrepreneurship culture right from the top through. Right.
That's like, that's that's that's a that's a culture thing,
you know. And the companies that do to do that
well are the ones that come through. You know. But
there's no lack of you know, falling on your knees
and skinning yourself or like bumps and bruises. You might
(23:56):
get a broken bone here and there, like you know,
hopefully don't get killed, you know, but you know, right,
you know, that's that's business and so you know, you know,
and then when you find success, everyone's trying to take
it from you. You know. You know, people come in
and they want to try and see a little piece
of what you're doing, and they say how to do
it better. And it's a very competitive environment. And so
you have to run a really good operation and good business.
(24:17):
It doesn't matter what you're doing right that that is entrepreneurship. So, Andrew,
I would like to do this. I am struggling with
technology today. I've got like seven points left on my
battery which is not charging. I would like to have
you back on the on the catering cage if you're willing,
would you come back?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, I'll come back.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Okay. I want to spend more time with you talking
about some other things related. But you know, we've got
a good episode here. I think we covered a lot
of stuff. Is there anything else you want to say
that you want to share? Tell us where people can
find you.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Oh yeah, you can just find us a delivery dot com.
You know my emails Andrew at first Delivery dot com.
I answer every email and uh, you know, in terms
of other things to say, again, I think that advice
know your customers and know your prep times or know
your kitchen. Those are the only two things I would
(25:10):
I would I would impart onto an audience.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Amazing. Okay, great, we're gonna see you over in the
catering community.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Maybe, yeah, I'll be, I'll be. I'll probably be in
the catering community. I'm just we're just finalizing that it
will be there soon.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And then we're also going to be at the Pizza
Expo and Food on Them in and n r A
this year or so.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
We'll see there.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay, Andrew, thanks for being on on the on the
Catering Cage today. There you have it, Folks, reach out
to Andrew. He knows his stuff. Thank you, Catering Cage.
Period morning. Everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Catering Cage,
where we do everything here that's related to catering. We
are very lucky and fortune in our community, have amazing
thought leaders, and we have supply chain partners who are
doing fabulous work in the space. We have operators who
are advancing their strategy in the space. You know, delivery
is always something that is some that is difficult to operators,
(00:37):
especially Director Luy So managing your own fleets, acquiring your
own vehicles, managing your own insurance and getting drivers. You know,
this is always a very complex landscape. And in this environment,
of course, we all have access to what our delivery partners.
And today I'm very excited to bring on a wonderful guest.
I've met him recently in the last year, and his
name is Andrew. And Andrew's going to join us. And Andrew's
(00:58):
the first delivery and he is here to tell us
all about what he's up to. We're going to talk
about catering. We're gonna do all that stuff, but before
we do, before we do, and this is important because
I hear, I hear you're very passionate skier.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like to ski. I like to skik not so passionate,
passionate enough. You know I've been I was that was three.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
So I like to ski, you know, but it's hard
to ski a lot if you don't live right by
the mountain.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, that's for sure. So where are you Where do
you live?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm in Seattle, so mountains are mountain.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well you're very close to us and easy access, so
you're going to come skiing. We're going to talk about
cater and we talk about delivery. Where you do that.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, well we'll just wait. We just need some snow.
So we're waiting for some snow because it's been a
dry season. But anyways, I digress. Andrew, thanks for joining me.
I really appreciate it. Uh. You know, our viewers want
to hear all about, uh, you know, the innovations you
might be up to, where you're having successes, where the
challenges are for operating or specific as it relates to
(02:02):
getting their deliveries out the door. I also want to
talk to like, what is the differentiation for your organization?
What is it that's different for you that you know
versus sort of the complex landscape of potential partners. So
where do you want to start up to you?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I mean, we can dive right in.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
How about this? Why don't you give us like, how
did your story begin? Can you tell us that? Uh?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So we started off as a delivery fleet ourselves. So
the four founders went to school together at Temple University.
We you know, graduated started the business while we were
in school, and so we rolled right into it right
after school. And at the time, we were offering restaurants
delivery as a service, so they would get orders from
grub ub, Uber, door, Dash, easy cater wherever they got
(02:50):
orders from, and we would do all the delivery fulfillment.
And so we did that for a while. The you know,
we got to five hundred drivers. The problem was it
was too hard to scale beyond that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Right and why why? What was it? What was the
issue for you?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's just when you have that many people, you know,
it's a lot of drivers, a lot of restaurants, and
it's very hard to do that profitably. Frankly, so you know,
a huge testament to the companies that have been able
to do that. Congrat but it's very challenging when you're
operating twenty hours a day, seven days a week, you know,
(03:26):
waking up for the bagel place at seven am and
closing with Papa John's at four am on a Friday.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, totally amazing. So what happened after that? So you
got you got to the point where you sort of
were stuck. I guess imagine a lot of manual systems.
You know, you took you took the service to market,
You had some good feedback, you know, identify all these challenges, right,
and so what what what happened after that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
What happened after that? So you know, we got to
three million dollars in revenue.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
We were doing you know, about fifty thousand deliveries per
month and and and was mid COVID and at that
time there was a labor shortage where it was really
hard to find labor, and so we were seeing that
our growth was starting to get flat and we were like, well,
(04:14):
what are we going to do now? We know we
can't scale this without a huge injection of capital and
be willing to lose money per delivery. So that that
was one challenge. And then what we saw was that
a new opportunity emerged, right, and that the best way
to offer restaurants the best service was to build a
(04:34):
network of fleets rather than solely rely on our own, right,
and that's what we did. So we spent this was
twenty twenty one. We spent the next year year and
a half, you know, we sold off the delivery fleet.
We then focus on the technology. We re architectural platforms
(04:56):
so we could take any order and send it to
any fleet.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Great, So let's talk about that the technology for a
moment now that you brought it up, Like, so, uh
so you see yourself as a tech company now or
is that what you see? Is that what you are? Yeah? Okay,
so that's that's huge, And so I'll followup the widget
just for lack of another term, Okay, the widgets, which
is like the I would call it the end to
(05:19):
end tool that you've built for operators to leverage. Tell
us about that, like what is it about that tool?
And how do how do food service operators interact with
the tool? Okay? And then out and then how does
the tool interact with the DSPs I guess or the
delivery service providers that you're in your network? And then
(05:41):
how do you reconcile the transactions or like where do
you play in the ecosystem in terms of order management
and how do the orders get to you? And how
do they get injected, and how they manage you know,
do you manage menu? And I have a whole bunch
of questions for you, but let's just you know, just
from a high view, like what is the widget? Yep?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So the widget right is we have essentially have a
little tablet app.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
We've simplified it as much as possible, right, and we
call it a DDS, right, a delivery display system. You
have a kitchen display system for your kitchen, right, you
have a DDS for your front of house.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And for these restaurants, how they use the widget today
is they'll get orders from wherever they get orders from.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
We have some.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Integrations in house and so on, but largely that restaurant's
already using a different order aggregator. They're using something like
Chaalie or Stream or Olo Rails or whatever they're using,
and whatever they're using to get all those orders into
the POS. Then then POS or that aggregator is just
(06:46):
sending the orders to First we receive that order, and
then from there we make it really easy for restaurants
to either manually or automatically assign those deliveries to their own.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Drivers or external drivers or both.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, So like a dispatch tool essentially is would you
you know, I would say, is what you've built there? Okay?
So that's great. So we understand where you are in
the ecosystem and in terms of data that gets passed
to you, in terms of like the information that comes
through to you, are you getting the menu level sorry,
menu item level information as well?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We typically get all that data. It's not required.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
The data that's required for us to do a delivery
is the customer name, the customer phone number, the delivery address.
Right then you data usually comes through not all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But yes, okay, really cool. And so in your learnings
and as you're you know, you and the team are
dealing with large value catering orders, right or doing doing
that as well? Like in your view, like how does
it make it different? Like how how how is catering
delivery different than take our delivery?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So catering delivery is the stakes are much higher, right,
you can either be ten minutes early or ten minutes late.
If you're outside of that window, you're either too early
or too late.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
And and the cost of a bad experience isn't going
to cost you, you know, tens.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Dollars or maybe one hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
It can cost you thousands of dollars potentially much more
if that's very high, so high reward, right, and uh
and so and and so that's that's the biggest thing
that our our platform helps support.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Excellent, great, and so as you advance and as you
move forward, uh, you know what is on the horizon
for you? What are like, where will you continue to
bring value for the food for food service operators and
why should they you know, why should they reach out
to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
For sure?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think that you know, and not to make this
like all about us, right, but I think overall, for
businesses that want to take catering seriously, doing one catering
delivery per store per day is pretty manageable, right, It's
not really too complex. It can be managed. I think
that where our sweet spot is really for stores that
(09:17):
want to do five per day per store or more, right,
and that's where.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It becomes much more complex.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And that's where it's important to be able to have
multiple fleet options so when things go wrong, right, you
can quickly adjust on the fly and preserve that customer
experience amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I think that's consistent, probably Andrew, with what we're
seeing in the tech space right we see I would
call it like comprehensive catering solutions versus non comprehensives, you know.
And depending on where you are as an operator in
that spectrum, depends on how ready you are for the
(09:58):
implementational selection the right technology, you know. Like so to
your point, if you're doing one or two orders a day,
you know, you could probably put it in your pos
or like you know whatever, use online ordering, et cetera,
et cetera. But when you start getting into five, seven,
eight orders a day, that breaks down, you know, so
you're now getting into much more sophisticated operation, you know, wonderful. So,
(10:24):
you know, in terms of like your technology ecosystem as
you as you reach out to partners and so I
imagine you're accessing the APIs to order management systems and
you're doing Is that like an ongoing effort? Is that
something you're investing in?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, you're always adding more, right, But we have integrations
with OLO, and you know, lots of large online ordering
providers out there, uh and so on, and uh, you know,
lots of restaurants will use us to do their easy
cater orders right on sell.
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Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, and so what advice would you give to operators
in terms of like what can they do to make
it easier for your guys when they arrive? Like what
what's it? Right? So, like, what is what is it
that operators can streamline to make it easy for you?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yep, I think that one of the most important things
is to set up your not just us, but really
our delivery providers, our partners.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So we partner with fleets like deliver.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
That delivered, Door, dash Ulf and so on, and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Really important that they get those orders.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Call it twenty four hours in advance, right if you
wait till like the morning of to put in the
delivery request. You're not really setting up the delivery provider
for success. If they do end up taking that delivery,
maybe it's not going to an experienced driver, right, And
so I think it's very important that number one, like
(12:25):
have you know those orders in and submitted and dispatched
as far in advance as possible. And number two, I
also think that it's really important to know have your
bag labeling or however you do that on point, make
it very easy set like all the things that can
go wrong because there are various humans in the loop.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You reduce your.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Risk, Okay, yeah, and that's interesting in itself. I mean essentially,
you know, we need to leave some room though, like
there's some there's some last minute dynamics in the catering business, right.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I agree, And that's where I think that your team
should come into play rights. It's kind of like, you know,
the stuff that you know is going to is happening,
you still want to be able to take that last
you know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That same day order right right right right, that's where
you maybe.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You have your GM on staff and that's a great
part of our platform.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
We send out the same track link.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
It doesn't matter DoorDash is a delivery or your own driver,
your own job.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, okay, so as much pre planning as you can. Strategy,
you know, is to dispatch those orders out to a
partner who can do the deliveries for you as much
advanced notice as you can at least a day. I
would say, I would think, and then leave some space
for you know, these sort of last minute, high risk
situations and handle those yourself. I think is kind of
(13:48):
the message you're providing.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I think, yeah, And I think it's great to do
deliveries yourself, as the owner or the franchise, you know,
the GM, whoever it is right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Now, I agree, I agree with that. I mean, I
mean I I I've always felt that the hybrid model
of reserving, like those special clients or like you know,
like when I had the deli years, I mean, listen,
it was like you know, we have we haven't. We'd
have a lot of orders. There might be twelve orders
going out. One was five thousand, and the rest of
them were all small orders, you know, so we would
(14:18):
we would handle the five thousand, you know, that was
the one, and then the rest of them we would,
you know, in those days of his careers or like
whatever we had to do to get their orders out
to the to the customers, you know. So I think
I think it's important for operators to keep their thumb
on the aspects of delivery and not just think they
can be hands off because to your point, I mean,
(14:39):
there's dispatching to think about, there's technology to think about.
Somebody has to have oversight and all these deliveries because
so many things can go wrong in the process and
it's all customer service after that point. So it's like,
it's not that things aren't going to go wrong. They are,
it's how well you deal with them is going to
be the differentiator, you know, keep you in the game,
(15:00):
you know, in terms like turning turning you know, those
those critical moments into opportunities is really the exercise, right,
it's all it's all relationship driven, you know. So I agree,
and I love what you're saying. You know, I think
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Question for you.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So I had that big five thousand dollars order, right,
and that was the first time the customer would order
for you.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
What was your pitch to get them to come to
order again?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sorry you're asking me.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So the big order, the big order, big order comes in,
it's a huge order. Right, corporate, you know they can
order again. You want to get them to order again. Right,
what's what's your what's your pitch? What's the offer?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You know? For me, it's less of a pitch and
more of like you know, can operate or slow down
long enough where we're like, if you see like an
order of that's that magnitude. You know, like the CEO
of the brand should call that customer andrew like it's
just like to me, it's less about the pitch, right,
and more and more about the relationship. Take take a
(16:05):
brand like I don't the RB's, I don't pick I
pick up brand Arby's. Okay. In the system, you know,
there's franchisees that have hundreds of stores, a big system. Okay,
So at least at that level, you might have a
franchise e that has one hundred units. That CEO of
that franchise ee should have his or her thumb on
the catering customers, at least the big one. You should
(16:27):
have the ability to run reports to show me my
top ten customers this week. Here's their phone numbers. Pick
up the phone and say thank you. That's my pitch. Okay,
and then if you do that, that becomes dinner conversation. Okay,
I called me, you know, yeah, because nobody doesn't know anymore. Listen,
(16:50):
I just have this expedy experience. This week is disaster.
I just I will never you know, for those who
are listening, Expedia is done in my life. I'm just
it's been so difficult to make some adjustments and things,
and it's just like so, you know, and I've been
a loyal customer for a long time and I'm done,
Like that's it. They lost me now, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So Dar went to Uber you know stars.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yea, and yeah, well I think that like what happens
is these companies just completely lose touch with with as
we move into this automation and consolidation and get bigger
and get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, you know,
to the point where you sort of have these you know,
oligoplity type situation situations in these markets, and and there's
(17:31):
just like, you know, anyways, whatever we can go on
forever and here it's just it's all on. Listen today,
it feels like it's unraveling, okay, And what's happening in
the world.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, I'm from Philadelphia. That is a company called
Comcast there that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to get political, but anyways,
it's just this is a tough time and actually, let's
talk about that for a moment. I think we're you know,
this is a very there's a there's a very tough
time in the world to be in business. You know,
don't know, like all these terroiffts are coming in and
all the stuff that's happened, all the disruptions going on,
like so like you know, what's going to happen to operators,
(18:07):
Like what should they do? Like their supplies are going up,
you know, consumers are going to fill it, they're going
to stop spending. We're heading maybe you know, who knows
what's gonna happen. We don't know any of it. But
what's your what's your advice to any operators listening? Andrew
this year?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like I think that, uh, you know, I want to
I think I might have mentioned this to you. I
do want to start a restaurant one day, very simple
concept and Panada concept.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Three menus.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We talked. We talked about this. I think we had
a long conversations. Yeah, we did. We did. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, Look, if you invite me to Whistler, I'll bring
you up back.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You're invited. You're invited, bring the panpanadas and come skin.
There we go. There you go publicly, publicly. Everyone heard.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's Ben's it's We're shaken on it. It's done, all.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right, listen. The biggest issue I'm facing at the moment
is my battery is down twelve percent.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Okay, all right, hopefully it deprives a little bit long.
But I think that the biggest piece of advice a
couple of things. One is I would try to consolidate
your menu as much as you can, because the kitchen
logistics are as challenging, if not more challenging, than the
delivery logistics.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And so like really understand your prep times and your
menu items and and really like what you know, what
can you produce with one or two cooks, and how
much food can you produce?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Because you should have much better unit economics than one
off meals.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's like preparing a family meal for a meal for
a family versus yourself. Right, it takes just about the
same amount of time, right, but you're preparing four meals
instead of one, and so I think that's that's the
biggest thing. I think the other big thing is, like
which you already alluded to, you took my you stole
my thunder is know who your customers are. Right For
most restaurants, their customers are anonymous on third party like
(19:52):
and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Right, the beautiful part about catering is it's much easier
to know who your customers are, and the ROI is
out size. It's it's so much larger to own the
relationships with those customers.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean practical advice. You heard it right there. Listen.
You know, we got to get practical. Reducing complexity in
the operation is critical in this process. We need we
need to go from more volume. We've got to reach
back out to our communities and sell more services. That's
where catering comes in, and we got to get in
touch with our customers, who are now all going to
feel pinched, you know, because they are just there's so
(20:30):
much pressure and so much you know, craziness in the
world right now. That's just very uncertain. People are nervous
and you know, the markets are coming down hard, you know,
you know, here we are again, you know, So it's
like keeping sane in the process and as a business person,
whether you know it's certainly North America. You know, I'm
thinking to myself, like, what would I do, you know
(20:51):
in this environment, you know, if I had, you know,
an operation, which I don't anymore, but you know, these
are there challenging environment. It's just like wow, So I
am going to work hard, very very hard, and you're
to help operators do more catering. And I know you
are as well, which is amazing and uh uh, you know,
(21:14):
super excited to see you know where you're going, what
you're doing. And you know, one of the things I
noticed about you, just as you know, as people who
haven't met you, well, you know, when I met you, uh,
you know, you're I would say, like your laughter is contagious.
You've got a great sense of humor. I love your
ability to you know, just kind of go with it.
(21:34):
And you're just like you know, you're you're You're good,
You're good. You know, any investor and any investors that
are listening, this is a great horse to bet on
Andrew nothing, You're a horse.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But no, no, I mean I don't even know if
we'll take your money. We're pretty good on cash we're
profitable now as a company.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay, well that's exciting, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It's been a long journey, you know, we h you know,
ups and downs, but now we're in a really good spot.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And long how long? How long?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How long?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What? How long the journey?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
When you start in the journey, it's it's been over
eight years.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Now not so long?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So long. Fels long and I feels long. But in
your very young short life, it's long. But in the
end of the day, in that it'll be fun to
watch you and see what happened.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Right. I read the other day.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I think that like Ovo took eight years to get
to like a million dollars in ar R, which is incredible, right,
you know, and I think, uh, you know, I mean
that just kind of it's a great story of entrepreneurship, right,
you stay long enough.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's not sexy, so it's a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Time, you know, it's not fun, But as long as
you have a team, it makes things a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know, it's all about that tipping point, you know,
that's what starts to happen. So you know, stay true
to yourself, you know, keeps court of your vision, keep
driving forward. You know, if you stop believing, everybody else
stops believing. So you can't do that. And but you
got to be careful you don't believe your own bullshit
because that happens, you know, people do that all the time.
(23:11):
So the thing in any entrepreneurial venture, and I know
lots of people listen to this podcast or in their
own businesses, is the way through is through pivoting. Right,
You're always pivoting. You're always pivoting. You're always pivoting. And
that's not easy. Even the biggest companies have to pivot.
But as you get bigger, that gets way harder, right,
and you have to build that. You have to build
(23:33):
that pivoting entrepreneurship culture right from the top through. Right.
That's like, that's that's that's a that's a culture thing,
you know. And the companies that do to do that
well are the ones that come through. You know. But
there's no lack of you know, falling on your knees
and skinning yourself or like bumps and bruises. You might
(23:56):
get a broken bone here and there, like you know,
hopefully don't get killed, you know, but you know, right,
you know, that's that's business and so you know, you know,
and then when you find success, everyone's trying to take
it from you. You know. You know, people come in
and they want to try and see a little piece
of what you're doing, and they say how to do
it better. And it's a very competitive environment. And so
you have to run a really good operation and good business.
(24:17):
It doesn't matter what you're doing right that that is entrepreneurship. So, Andrew,
I would like to do this. I am struggling with
technology today. I've got like seven points left on my
battery which is not charging. I would like to have
you back on the on the catering cage if you're willing,
would you come back?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, I'll come back.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Okay. I want to spend more time with you talking
about some other things related. But you know, we've got
a good episode here. I think we covered a lot
of stuff. Is there anything else you want to say
that you want to share? Tell us where people can
find you.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Oh yeah, you can just find us a delivery dot com.
You know my emails Andrew at first Delivery dot com.
I answer every email and uh, you know, in terms
of other things to say, again, I think that advice
know your customers and know your prep times or know
your kitchen. Those are the only two things I would
(25:10):
I would I would impart onto an audience.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Amazing. Okay, great, we're gonna see you over in the
catering community.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Maybe, yeah, I'll be, I'll be. I'll probably be in
the catering community. I'm just we're just finalizing that it
will be there soon.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And then we're also going to be at the Pizza
Expo and Food on Them in and n r A
this year or so.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
We'll see there.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay, Andrew, thanks for being on on the on the
Catering Cage today. There you have it, Folks, reach out
to Andrew. He knows his stuff. Thank you, Catering Cage.
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