8 Days of O.J. - "THE LAPD ON TRIAL: When Mark Fuhrman Became the Real Defendant" - Day 3

Reid Carter examines March 1995 - the month Mark Fuhrman went from hero detective to racist villain, handing Johnnie Cochran the race card on a silver platter. F. Lee Bailey's devastating cross-examination about the N-word destroys Fuhrman's credibility with one lie. Evidence collection mistakes become conspiracy theories as Barry Scheck turns criminalist Dennis Fung into a bumbling incompetent. The EDTA preservative theory suggests blood was planted from test tubes. Thirty-one days of watching the prosecution's case collapse as the defense successfully puts the LAPD on trial instead of O.J. Simpson. March proved that when you can't attack the evidence, attack the people who collected it - and sometimes that works better than the truth.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Caalarogashark Media. This is Reed Carter, Sunday, September twenty eighth,
twenty twenty five, Day three of eight days of OJ.
We're examining. March nineteen ninety five The month everything changed.

(00:24):
The month the prosecution stopped being the prosecution and became
the defense. The month Mark Furman stopped being a detective
and became a defendant. The month the LAPD stopped being
investigators and became conspirators. March nineteen ninety five was when
this trial flipped upside down. When the people who found
the evidence became more suspect than the man who left it,

(00:46):
when collecting blood became more suspicious than spilling it, When
saying racial slurs became worse than committing double murder. This
is the month Johnny Cochrane's strategy crystallized into pure genius
or pure evil, depending on your perspective. Instead of defending
OJ Simpson, he prosecuted the Los Angeles Police Department. Instead

(01:07):
of explaining away evidence, he explained away the people who
collected it. And it worked. Dear God, it worked. Thirty
one days of watching the justice system cannibalize itself. Thirty
one days of watching reasonable doubt become unreasonable paranoia. Thirty
one days of watching two murder victims disappear while their

(01:29):
killer became the victim of police misconduct. I'm Red Carter.
This is day three of eight days of OJ. Welcome
to the month the LAPD went on trial for OJ
Simpson's murders March nineteen ninety five. Thirty one days that
transformed Mark Furman from the detective who solved the case

(01:51):
into the racist who destroyed it. Thirty one days that
turned evidence collection into evidence planting. Thirty one days that
proved you don't need to be innocent to be acquitted.
You just need the police to be flawed. And let
me tell you something about Mark Furman. He was flawed, deeply, horribly,
inexcusably flawed. But that doesn't make OJ Simpson innocent of murder.

(02:14):
It just makes the case more complicated than it should
have been. March began with Mark Furman as the prosecution's
star witness, the detective who found the bloody glove at Rockingham,
the investigator who connected the crime scenes, the cop who
built the case that should have sent O. J. Simpson
to death. Row Furman took the stand March ninth and

(02:34):
initially he was perfect, professional, detailed, methodical. He walked the
jury through his investigation step by step, how he arrived
at Bundy Drive, how he processed the crime scene, how
he noticed the trail of blood, how he went to
Rockingham to notify oj about Nichole's death. How he found
the bloody glove on the pathway behind Ojay's house. That

(02:56):
glove was everything, the match to the glove found at Bundy,
soaked in blood from both victims, hidden in a location
only someone familiar with OJ's property would know. It was
the physical link between the killer and the crime scene
that should have ended any reasonable doubt. But Furman's testimony
about finding that glove was too perfect, too convenient, too

(03:18):
much like what the prosecution needed to close their case
and f lee. Bailey smelled blood in the water March fifteenth,
the cross examination that changed everything. Bailey stands up and
asks Furman one simple question, Detective Furman, have you used
the word nigger in the past ten years? The courtroom

(03:39):
goes silent. Judge Eto should have shut this down immediately.
This question has nothing to do with evidence collection or
investigative procedures. Its pure character assassination designed to inflame racial tensions,
but Itto allows it, and Furman, looking directly at the jury,
says no, he has never used that word in the

(04:00):
past ten years. That lie, and we now know it
was a lie handed Johnny cochran the race card on
a silver platter. It gave the defense everything they needed
to transform Mark Furman from witness into villain, from investigator
into conspirator, from copp into racist who would frame an
innocent black man? And here's what I think happened in
that moment. I think Furman panicked. He knew he'd used

(04:22):
racial slurs, he knew there might be evidence of it,
but he also knew that admitting to being racist would
destroy his credibility and possibly the entire case. So he
lied under oath in front of twelve jurors who would
soon learn that he lied, and that lie became more
important to the jury than any evidence he'd collected. Bailey

(04:45):
wasn't done. He pressed Furman about his racial attitudes, about
his views on interracial relationships, about his feelings toward O. J.
Simpson Specifically, each question designed to plant the idea that
Furman wasn't just investigating a crime, he was targeting a
black celebrity. The prosecution should have objected to every single

(05:06):
one of these questions. Should have argued that Furman's personal
views were irrelevant to the physical evidence he found. Should
have reminded the jury that racist cops can still find
real evidence of actual crimes. Instead, they let Bailey turn
their star witness into the defense's star villain. They watched
their detective become the defendant while their defendants sat at

(05:28):
the defense table looking like the victim. But March brought
worse news for the prosecution. Barryshk began his systematic destruction
of the LAPD's evidence collection procedures. Dennis Fung, the criminalist
who collected the blood evidence, took the stand March twentieth.
Fung should have been the prosecution's scientific expert who explained

(05:49):
how blood evidence proved Ojay's guilt beyond any doubt. Instead,
Sheck turned him into a bumbling incompetent who couldn't handle
evidence properly and couldn't remember basic procedures. Shek's cross examination
of Fung lasted for days, days of microscopic examination of
every collection technique, every storage procedure, every chain of custody, protocol.

(06:13):
Shek wasn't disputing what the evidence showed. He was disputing
whether the evidence could be trusted. Did Fung collect all
the blood drops at Bundy? No, Some were collected later
by other technicians. Did Fung properly refrigerate all samples, not
all of them, Some sat in a truck for hours.

(06:33):
Did Fung follow every protocol exactly? No, there were minor
deviations from standard procedures. None of these issues affected the
reliability of the DNA testing. None of these mistakes would
cause false positive results, but Shech made them sound like
catastrophic failures that rendered all evidence meaningless. And watching this

(06:54):
cross examination thirty years later, I can see exactly what
Shek was doing. He was creating a narrative of incompetence
that would justify any level of doubt about any piece
of evidence. If the LAPD couldn't collect blood properly, how
could they be trusted with anything? But the real bombshell
came when Sheck introduced the EDTA theory. Ed Eta is

(07:17):
a preservative used in laboratory test tubes to prevent blood
from clotting. Sheck suggested that the blood found at the
crime scenes contained E Dta which would mean it came
from test tubes rather than fresh wounds. In other words,
shek was arguing that someone took blood from OJ's reference
sample and planted it at Bundy and Rockingham to frame him.

(07:38):
Not just contamination, not just mishandling, deliberate evidence planting by
the LAPD. This was insane. The logistics of planting blood
evidence at multiple crime scenes, coordinating with multiple officers, and
maintaining the conspiracy through months of investigation would require a
level of competence the lap D had never demonstrated. But

(08:02):
it didn't matter if it was logical. It only mattered
if it created doubt and the idea that racist cops
would frame a black celebrity that played perfectly with this jury.
The prosecution should have demolished the DTA theory, should have
called experts to explain that EDTA testing was unreliable. Should
have pointed out that planting evidence would require multiple officers

(08:25):
to risk their careers to frame someone they'd never shown
any interest in before the murders. Instead, they got bogged
down in technical arguments about blood chemistry, while the defense
sold conspiracy theories to a jury that wanted to believe them.
March also brought the beginning of the end for any
focus on the actual victims. The more time spent on

(08:47):
police misconduct, the less time spent on Nicole Brown Simpson
and Ronald Goldman. The more attention paid to LAPD procedures,
the less attention paid to who killed two innocent people.
I think this was Cochrane's most brilliant and most evil strategy.
He made the jury forget about the victims. He made
them care more about police racism than about murder. He

(09:09):
transformed two people who'd been brutally slaughtered into footnotes in
a story about police corruption. By March thirty first, the
prosecution's case was in ruins not because their evidence was
weak their evidence was overwhelming, but because their evidence had
been collected by flawed people using imperfect procedures, and the
defense had convinced the jury that flawed procedures meant fabricated evidence.

(09:34):
Mark Furman's lie about using racial slurs became more important
than the bloody glove he found. Dennis Fung's imperfect collection
techniques became more suspicious than OJ's blood at the crime scene.
The LAPD's history of misconduct became more relevant than OJ's
history of abusing Nicole. March nineteen ninety five was the

(09:54):
month the prosecution lost control of their own case. They
came to court expecting to to present evidence, and instead
found themselves defending the police department. They thought they were
prosecuting a murderer, and instead found themselves explaining why witnesses
shouldn't be believed and evidence shouldn't be trusted. The defense
didn't prove OJ Simpson was innocent. They proved the LAPD

(10:18):
was imperfect, and apparently, in nineteen ninety five Los Angeles,
imperfect police work was worse than perfect murder. Thirty one
days of watching the justice system forget its purpose, thirty
one days of watching procedure matter more than truth, thirty
one days of watching two murder victims disappear while their

(10:39):
killer became the victim of police misconduct. We'll be right
back with how March nineteen ninety five set the stage
for April's complete transformation of this case from murder trial
to racial referendum. Welcome back to day three of eight

(11:06):
days of OJ. I'm reed, Carter, and we're examining how
March nineteen ninety five turned the Los Angeles Police Department
into defendants in their own investigation what really happened in March.
The defense executed the most brilliant legal strategy we've ever seen,
or the most cynical manipulation of racial tensions in American

(11:27):
legal history, probably both. Johnny Cochrane didn't need to prove
OJ Simpson was innocent. He only needed to prove the
LAPD couldn't be trusted, and with Mark Furman's lies and
Dennis Fung's fumbles, he had everything he needed. But let's
talk about what the jury didn't hear in March. What
Judge Edo kept out because it was too prejudicial, too inflammatory,

(11:51):
too likely to actually convict OJ Simpson of murder. They
didn't hear about OJ's other instances of stalking Nicole. They
didn't hear about his threats to killer if he ever
caught her with another man. They didn't hear about the
pattern of escalating violence that culminated in double murder. They
heard about blood preservatives and collection protocols. They heard about

(12:11):
racial slurs and police procedures. They heard about everything except
the most important fact in this case. OJ Simpson killed
Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman. And here's what frustrates me.
Most about March nineteen ninety five. The defense's conspiracy theory
required more leaps of logic than the prosecution's murder theory.

(12:33):
Think about what you'd have to believe to accept that
Ojy was framed. Multiple LAPD officers decided to risk their
careers to frame a celebrity they'd never shown interest in.
They somehow got OJ's blood and planted it at Bundy
Drive within hours of the murder. They planted more blood
in his broncho, and at his house. They planted a

(12:55):
matching glove in the perfect location. They coordinated this conspiracy
with out leaving any evidence of the conspiracy itself. All
this to frame a man who had no alibi, whose
blood was legitimately at the crime scene, who had motive
and opportunity, who was acting suspiciously, and who had a
history of violence toward one of the victims. Compare that

(13:15):
to the prosecution's theory. O. J. Simpson, who had beaten
Nicole before, killed her and Ron when he found them together.
He left blood evidence because he was bleeding from cuts
sustained during the struggle. He acted suspiciously because he was guilty,
which theory requires fewer assumptions which theory fits the evidence better,
Which theory makes more sense. But March nineteen ninety five

(13:40):
proved that sense doesn't matter if you can't sell it
to the jury. The defense sold conspiracy better than the
prosecution sold evidence. The defense sold victim better than the
prosecution sold justice. By the end of March, Mark Furman
wasn't a detective who found evidence. He was a racist
who planted it. The LAPD wasn't a police to apartment
that solved a case. They were conspirators who manufactured one.

(14:05):
OJ Simpson wasn't a defendant facing evidence, he was a
victim facing persecution. And Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman
they were just the excuse for this elaborate frame job.
Not human beings who'd been brutally murdered, not victims who
deserved justice, just props in a story about police corruption.

(14:25):
March nineteen ninety five was the month we learned that
in celebrity justice, the defendant gets to choose what the
case is about, and OJ Simpson, through his dream team,
chose to make this case about everything except his guilt.
March was also the month we learned that juries can
be convinced to ignore evidence if they're given a better
story to believe, and the story of racist cops framing

(14:49):
an innocent black celebrity was apparently more compelling than the
story of an abusive ex husband murdering his wife and
an innocent bystander. The prosecution thought that they were in
a courtroom, they were actually in a theater, and while
they were trying to present facts, the defense was putting
on the greatest legal performance in American history. Mark Foreman

(15:10):
was a racist cop who lied under oath and handed
Johnny Cochran the race card on a silver platter. But
he was also the detective who found real evidence of
actual murders committed by O. J. Simpson. Both things can
be true. Flawed cops can solve real cases. Racist investigators
can find genuine evidence. Imperfect procedures can still reveal perfect guilt.

(15:33):
But March nineteen ninety five taught us that perfection is
required to convict celebrities, while reasonable doubt only requires unreasonable
theories about police conspiracies. By March thirty first, this case
had been completely transformed. It was no longer about whether O. J.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron. It was about whether the
LAPD could be trusted to investigate anyone. The answer clearly

(15:57):
was no. The lap D couldn't be trusted. They were incompetent, racist,
and prone to cutting corners. But that doesn't make OJ
Simpson innocent. It just makes his guilt harder to prove
to a jury that was more interested in punishing police
misconduct than convicting murderers. March nineteen ninety five, The month

(16:19):
the victims became footnotes and the killer became the victim.
The month evidence became suspicious and procedures became more important
than truth. The month justice died a little more each day.
That's day three of eight days of OJ. March nineteen
ninety five, the month Mark Furman's lies became more important

(16:43):
than OJ Simpson's murders. Tomorrow Day four. April nineteen ninety five,
The month the defense strategy crystallized into pure racial politics
when OJ's home videos tried to humanize a killer, when
domestic violence evidence got minimized while police misconduct got amplified.
When Judge Edo's conflict of interest nearly ended the trial,

(17:07):
when dismissed jurors revealed the racial tensions tearing apart the case.
April nineteen ninety five was when this officially stopped being
a murder trial and became a referendum on the LAPD.
When the prosecution realized they weren't just fighting the defense.
They were fighting history, racism, and decades of police misconduct

(17:29):
that had nothing to do with oj Simpson but everything
to do with how this jury saw the world. But
before we moved to April, let me remind you what
March really proved. It proved that Mark Furman was a
racist who lied under oath. It also proved that oj
Simpson's blood was at the crime scene, regardless of who
found it or how it was collected. It proved that

(17:52):
the LAPD made mistakes in evidence collection. It also proved
that those mistakes didn't create false evidence, or fabricate DNA
ME matches, or plant blood where it didn't belong. It
proved that police procedures weren't perfect. It also proved that
imperfect procedures can still reveal perfect guilt. Mark Furman found
a bloody glove behind Ojay's house because oj Simpson put

(18:14):
it there after killing Nicole and Ron. Dennis fun collected
blood evidence that matched OJ's DNA because it was Ojy's blood.
The LAPD built a case against O. J. Simpson because
OJ Simpson committed the murders, but none of that mattered
to a jury that had been selected by the defense
and convinced by the defense that police misconduct was worse

(18:35):
than double murder. March nineteen ninety five was the month
we learned that being right isn't enough if you can't
prove it to people who don't want to believe it.
That evidence isn't enough if you can't present it to
jurors who trust it. That justice isn't guaranteed just because
guilt is obvious. Nicole Brown, Simpson and Ronald Goldman deserved

(18:55):
better than Mark Foreman's racism and Dennis Fung's fumbles. They
deserve served perfect police work and flawless procedures and investigators
who couldn't be attacked for their personal failures. Instead, they
got the LAPD flawed, imperfect, sometimes racist, often incompetent, but
still the police department that solved their murders correctly, even

(19:18):
if they couldn't prove it convincingly. Join me tomorrow for
April nineteen ninety five, when this case completed its transformation
from murder trial to racial theater when two dead victims
finally disappeared completely behind the story of one living celebrities persecution.
I'm Red carter Mark Forman was a racist liar. OJ

(19:39):
Simpson was still a murderer. Both things were true in
March nineteen ninety five, and both things are true today.
The difference is that only one of those truths mattered
to the jury. The preceding episode is based on court records,

(20:05):
news reports, and publicly available information from the OJ Simpson trial.
While we strive for accuracy, some dramatic interpretation and creative
license has been used for storytelling purposes.