"FATHER RUNS FOR SHERIFF WHILE AWAITING MURDER TRIAL & 20 STABS RULED SUICIDE"

Reid Carter covers Aaron Spencer, Arkansas father running for sheriff while awaiting murder trial for shooting his 13-year-old daughter's abuser - 67-year-old Michael Fosler who was out on bond for 40+ sexual offenses when Spencer found his missing daughter in Fosler's truck. Ellen Greenberg stabbed 20 times including 10 to the back of head - Philadelphia rules it suicide AGAIN despite pathologist who did autopsy now saying he was wrong. Supreme Court rejects Alex Jones' appeal of $1.4 billion Sandy Hook judgment, families offered to settle for $85 million over 10 years.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Callaroga Shark Media, Good morning. I'm Red Carter. Wednesday October fifteenth,
twenty twenty five. Aaron Spencer is thirty seven years old
Army veteran father of a teenage daughter who was sexually
assaulted by a sixty seven year old man. The man,

(00:24):
Michael Fossler, faced over forty sexual offense charges and was
released on bond with a no contact order. October twenty
twenty four, Spencer woke up to find his thirteen year
old daughter missing, founder in Fossler's truck, shot, Fossler dead,
called nine one one Now. Spencer is charged with second

(00:44):
degree murder, released on one hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond,
awaiting trial in January, and he's running for Sheriff of
Lonoke County, Arkansas. His campaign video, I'm the father who
acted to protect his daughter when the system failed. I
refuse to stand by while others face these same failures.
Ellen Greenberg was found dead January twenty sixth, twenty eleven,

(01:08):
stabbed twenty times, ten stab wounds to the back of
her head and neck, a ten inch kitchen knife sticking
out of her chest. Bruises in various stages of healing.
The pathologist who did her autopsy ruled it homicide by
unknown person. Days later, after a closed door meeting, he
changed it to suicide. For fourteen years, her parents have

(01:30):
fought that ruling. In February, that same pathologist admitted he
was wrong that Ellen didn't kill herself. Yesterday, Philadelphia's chief
medical examiner released a new ruling, still suicide, and the
Supreme Court rejected Alex Jones's appeal of the one point
four billion dollar judgment for calling Sandy Hook a hoax.

(01:51):
No comment, didn't even ask families to respond, just rejected. Meanwhile,
Sandy Hook families offered to settle for eighty five million
dollars over ten years pennies on the dollar. Jones's lawyer
says that still too much. I'm reed Carter Today, a
father running for sheriff while charged with murder, a woman
stabbed twenty times who Philadelphia insists killed herself, and Alex

(02:15):
Jones losing at the Supreme Court. This is Celebrity Trials.
Spring twenty twenty four, Lonoke County, Arkansas. A thirteen year
old girl confides in a family member that she's been
sexually assaulted. Her parents, Aaron and Heather Spencer report it
to authorities. An investigation begins. The suspect, Michael Fossler, sixty

(02:40):
seven years old. According to Heather Spencer, he was old
enough to be my father, an opportunist who started grooming
their daughter via text, a predator with a long history
of targeting children. Fossler is arrested quickly faces over forty
sexual offense charges, including Internet stalking of a child, two
counts of sexual assault, sexual rule, indecency, and possession of

(03:01):
child pornography. Serious charges federal offenses, the kind that should
keep someone locked up pending trial, but Fossler is released
on bond, low bond, no supervision. The Spencer family wasn't informed.
They expected his release eventually, but thought the pending felony
charges and no contact order would keep him away from

(03:22):
their daughter. They were wrong. October eighth, twenty twenty four,
the Spencer family is awakened in the middle of the
night by their daughter's dog. Aaron Spencer checks on his daughter.
She's missing. A search begins immediately. Spencer gets in his
truck drives around looking for her. He finds Fossler's truck

(03:46):
with his daughter inside. According to court documents, Spencer forced
Fossler's truck off the highway, an altercation occurred, Spencer shot
Fossler multiple times. Fossler died at the scenae. Spencer called
nine to one one to report what he'd done. Spencer
was arrested and charged with second degree murder with gun enhancement.

(04:08):
Arraigned before the same judge who'd released Fossler on bond
set at one hundred fifty thousand dollars bail. That judge
also imposed what Heather Spencer calls an unconstitutional gag order
on the case. October twenty twenty five, Spencer is out
on bond, awaiting trial scheduled for January twenty sixth, twenty

(04:30):
twenty six. His pre trial date is December sixteenth. He
faces years in prison for killing the man who was
abusing his daughter after the system failed to protect her,
and now he's running for sheriff. His campaign launched with
a video message, many of you know my story. I'm
the father who acted to protect his daughter when the

(04:50):
system failed. I refused to stand by while others face
these same failures. This campaign isn't about me. It's about
every parent, every neighbor, every family who deserves to feel
safe in their homes and community. It's about restoring trust
where neighbors no law enforcement is on their side, and
families know they will not be left alone in a
moment of need. His wife, Heather wrote on Facebook, I

(05:14):
have no doubt that if it weren't for God and
my husband, I would have never seen my child again.
The relief of my child being alive was quickly followed
by terror as the prosecutor set preliminary charges at murder
I with one hundred fifty thousand dollars bond. She detailed
the timeline their daughter confided about the abuse. They trusted

(05:35):
the system. Fossler was arrested. They were happy that he
was quickly arrested, but not privy to the fact that
he was released on a low bond with zero supervision.
They anticipated his release, but thought the pending felony charges
and a no contact order would be enough to keep
him away from our child. We were wrong. The night

(05:55):
their daughter was taken, my husband didn't ask to be
put in a position to save our ch child. We
didn't ask for any of this. An evil man with
a long history of predatory behavior targeted our child and
was not scared of the consequences. My husband was forced
to save his child from someone who should have never

(06:17):
been on the streets to begin with. A GoFundMe created
by Heather's sister has raised over seventy nine thousand dollars
for legal fees and therapy for their daughter. The page
describes the family as facing a very challenging uncertain time.
Spencer's son commented on his father's campaign video, proud to

(06:38):
call this man my father. Community response has been overwhelmingly supportive.
Comments on his video include I will stand with you
as a veteran and a father, and I was working
dispatch when this call came through. My officer went to assist.
You definitely got our votes and will be praying for
your daughter that she may heal from this trauma. And

(06:59):
you against our justice system. I think you served the
justice that the Justice Department wouldn't. Current Sheriff John Staley
announced he's seeking reelection. His statement, since twenty thirteen, I
have served as Sheriff of Lenoke County with a clear
mission to protect our citizens and hold those who break

(07:19):
the law accountable. From day one, our focus has been
on three major threats to our communities. Drug traffickers, sexual predators,
and thieves. My motto has been and will continue to
be do what's right, not what's easy. That last line
carries weight given the circumstances. Spencer is arguing the system

(07:42):
failed to protect his daughter from a sexual predator, that
doing what's right meant shooting the man who was abusing her,
That the Sheriff's office should have prevented Fossler from being
released or supervised him properly. The legal questions are complex.
Was Spencer justified in using deadly force, did he act
in defense of his daughter, or was this premeditated murder?

(08:03):
Hunting down Fossler and executing him. The facts suggest heat
of passion at minimum. Spencer woke up, found his daughter missing,
immediately went searching, found her in her abuser's truck despite
a no contact order, and shot the man. That's not
premeditation in the traditional sense. That's a father discovering his
worst nightmare and acting. But second degree murder charges indicate

(08:26):
prosecutors believe Spencer acted with malice, that forcing Fossler's truck
off the highway and shooting him went beyond reasonable defense,
that he could have called police instead of taking matters
into his own hands. Spencer's defense will argue necessity and
defense of another. His daughter was in immediate danger. Fossler
had violated the no contact order, kidnapped her, and, based

(08:48):
on his pending charges, was likely planning to assault her
again or worse. Spencer had seconds to act. He acted
to save his daughter's life. The prosecution will argue Spencer
had alternatives. He could have followed Fossler's truck and called police,
could have pursued legal remedies, could have done anything except
shoot a man to death on a highway. A jury

(09:09):
will decide which narrative is true, but the community has
already decided. Spencer has widespread support, people who believe he
did what any parent would do, what any parent should
do when the system fails to protect their child. The
political implications are fascinating. Spencer is running for sheriff while
awaiting trial for murder. If acquitted, he could actually become sheriff.

(09:32):
If convicted, he goes to prison. The election is before
his trial, so voters will choose whether to elect someone
charged with murder to lead law enforcement. That's either brilliant
politics or insane. Spencer is making his criminal case part
of his political platform. He's the father who protected his
daughter when the system failed. Vote for him, and he'll

(09:53):
protect your family too. He won't let sexual predators roam
free on low bond. He'll do what's right, not what's easy.
It's a compelling message in a county where residents probably
know similar stories, where predators get released on bond, where
victims feel unprotected, where families don't trust the system. But

(10:13):
it's also a message built on admitting to killing someone.
Spencer isn't claiming innocence. He's claiming justification. Yes, I shot him,
I'd do it again. Now elect me sheriff so I
can protect you too. That's unprecedented. Candidates usually distance themselves
from criminal charges, claim innocence, avoid discussing pending cases. Spencer

(10:37):
is doing the opposite, embracing his charges as qualification for office.
The trial is January twenty sixth, twenty twenty six. The
election presumably happens before then. If Spencer wins, he'd be
sheriff elect awaiting trial for murder. If acquitted, he becomes sheriff.
If convicted, the county has to hold another election. Michael Fossler,

(10:58):
faced over forty sexual defense charges, was released on bond
with no supervision despite pending federal crimes, violated a no
contact order to abduct a thirteen year old girl he'd
been abusing, was shot to death by her father, and
now that father is running for sheriff on a platform
of fixing the system that failed his family. That's the
Aaron Spencer story. Murder defendant sheriff candidate father who refuses

(11:23):
to apologize for protecting his daughter. We'll be right back
with Ellen Greenberg stabbed twenty times and Philadelphia rules its
suicide again. January twenty sixth, twenty eleven, Philadelphia, a nor'easter

(11:55):
covers the city in snow and ice. Schools closed, businesses shuttered,
everyone hunkering down inside. Ellen Greenberg, twenty seven year old
elementary school teacher, returns to the sixth floor apartment she
shares with her fiance Sam Goldberg, man a young neighborhood
safe area nice building. Around four forty five pm. Goldberg

(12:18):
goes to the gym in their building. Returns thirty minutes later.
The door is locked from the inside. He can't get in.
He texts Ellen, Hello, open the door. What are you doing?
I'm getting pissed. Hello, you better have an excuse, you
have no idea. During that time, he also calls his

(12:40):
uncle and cousin, James and Kamian Schwartzmann, both powerful attorneys.
Talks to them on the phone while locked out of
his own apartment. After about an hour, Goldberg says he
breaks down the door, finds Ellen in a pool of
blood on the kitchen floor a ten inch kitchen knife
sticking out of her chest. He calls nine to one

(13:00):
one around six thirty pm. Two minutes into the call,
Goldberg mentions the knife. She stabbed herself. He says moments
later she fell on a knife. Responding officers treated as
suicide because Goldberg said the door was locked from inside
and no one else was in the apartment. No CSI
team called home, not treated as crime scene. Next day,

(13:24):
doctor Marlon Osborne conducts Ellen's autopsy. Finds horrific injuries. Twenty
stab wounds, ten to the back of her head and neck.
One three inch wound near the base of her skull
caused a stroke. One severed the spinal column membrane, one
sliced her aorda bruises in various stages of healing, indicating
repeated beatings. Possible finger marks on her neck suggesting strangulation.

(13:48):
Osbourne rules it homicide caused by multiple stab wounds by
an unknown person, but by then the scene has been
released and professionally cleaned. Goldberg's relatives visited the home and
took electronic devices evidence gone. Days later a closed door
meeting between the Medical Examiner's office and law enforcement, Osborne suddenly,

(14:12):
without explanation, changes his ruling to suicide. For fourteen years,
Ellen's parents, Josh and Sandy Greenberg, have fought that ruling.
Hired pathologists, investigators, experts, all contradicting suicide. Prominent pathologist Wayne
Ross found the bruising indicated repeated beating prior to death.

(14:35):
Found that one stab woond to her head severed the
cranial nerves and brain and would have caused unconsciousness, making
it impossible for Ellen to cause the final stab wound
to her chest. Doctor Lindsay Emery, pathologist in the Medical
Examiner's office, examined Ellen's spinal column in twoenty nineteen, found

(14:55):
no hemorrhage in the stab wound that severed the spinal membrane,
possible conclude usion that wound was inflicted post mortem after death.
The scene itself looked staged. Dried blood on Ellen's face
indicated she'd been moved to where she was found propped
against kitchen cabinets. Questions about whether the door was actually locked.

(15:16):
The official account that Goldberg was accompanied by a security
guard when entering has been refuted by surveillance footage and
the guard's sworn testimony. January twenty twenty five bombshell moment.
Doctor Osborne, who did the original autopsy and changed his
ruling to suicide, admits in a sworn statement that he

(15:38):
no longer believes Ellen killed herself, that her manner of
death should be designated something other than suicide. Three days later,
a settlement reached in lawsuits Ellen's parents brought against the city.
Key part the Medical Examiner's office would conduct an expeditious
reinvestigation of Ellen's death. Months pasted no response, The Greenberg's attorney,

(16:03):
Joe Pedraza, filed a motion to force the city to act.
September third Hearing Judge Linda Carpenter scolds the city for
dragging its feet, says expedited should mean a week to
ten days, that the delay shows they obviously just don't care.
The city agrees to a deadline October fourteenth, twenty twenty

(16:23):
five final answer on whether Ellen's death remains suicide or
gets changed to homicide or undetermined. Yesterday, October fourteenth, Philadelphia
Chief Medical Examiner Lindsay Simon releases a thirty two page
review the ruling still suicide. Simon claims Ellen could have

(16:44):
inflicted all twenty stab wounds herself, says many were hesitation wounds.
Says there's no evidence she was incapacitated when they were inflicted,
points to lack of evidence of domestic abuse, notes that
only Ellen's DNA was found on the knife, no one else's.
Also cites Ellen's anxiety at time of death. She'd recently

(17:05):
changed medication helping with insomnia, giving her an increase in
energy to act on her anxious thoughts. Simon's conclusion, with
all of this information considered, it is the opinion of
the Undersigned that the manner of Ellen Greenberg's death is
best classified as suicide. Joe Padraza's response the ruling is tripe,

(17:26):
an embarrassment to the city, and an insult to Ellen
and her family, called it a deeply flawed attempt to
justify a predetermined conclusion. He notes false claims like asserting
a stab wound in Ellen's spinal column was made during autopsy,
a theory rejected by every credible expert, including the city's

(17:46):
own neuropathologist. Says Simon ignored key evidence contradicting suicide, Extensive
three D photogrammetry proving Ellen couldn't self inflict all wounds,
unexplained bruises, missing surveillance footage, intact, Locke accounts of a
toxic relationship. Ellen's family just wanted the truth. It is

(18:06):
clear the truth will not come from Philadelphia's law enforcement machinery.
Though Ellen's city turned its back on her, we will
continue through other avenues to get justice for her murder
by any means necessary. The implications are huge. A homicide
ruling or even undetermined, would trigger a criminal investigation, would

(18:27):
mean looking for a killer. With the suicide ruling standing,
no investigation happens because officially no crime occurred. As Padraza said,
so long as that death certificate says suicide, it's an
obstacle for an investigation to proceed because it's the state
literally saying no crime has occurred. The perfect murder is

(18:49):
to have the manner of death declared a suicide. That's
the truth. Think about the facts. Ellen was stabbed twenty times,
ten wounds to the back of her head and neck.
How do you stab yourself in the back of the
neck ten times? One catastrophic wound severed cranial nerves and brain,
causing unconsciousness. How do you continue stabbing after losing consciousness?

(19:12):
One wound to the spinal column shows no hemorrhaging, suggesting
post mortem injury. How do you stab yourself after death?
Bruises in various stages of healing indicate repeated beatings before death,
possible strangulation marks on her neck, finger impressions, dried blood
pattern suggests her body was moved, and Goldberg's behavior texts

(19:34):
escalating from normal to aggressive. You better have an excuse?
What the fuck? Why you have no idea? That's threatening language,
then calling powerful attorney relatives while locked out. Then she
stabbed herself within two minutes of the nine to one
to one call. How do you know someone stabbed themselves
before examining the scene? The door locked from inside, except

(19:55):
surveillance and security guard testimonies suggest it wasn't. The scene
professionally cleaned and devices removed before investigation complete. The medical
examiner changing is ruling after a closed door meeting with
law enforcement. It looks like a cover up, feels like
a cover up, but Philadelphia says it's suicide again. Sam Goldberg,

(20:16):
now a married father of two living in New York,
has spoken publicly about Ellen's death only once, a written
statement to CNN in late twenty twenty four, blasting lies, distortions,
and falsehoods about him and insisting Ellen died by suicide.
He hasn't joined Josh and Sandy in fighting the suicide ruling,
hasn't demanded an investigation to clear his name if he's innocent,

(20:38):
just moved on, new wife, new kids, new life. Josh
and Sandy believe their daughter was murdered, one her killer
brought to justice, have fought fourteen years, spent everything on
lawyers and experts, and yesterday Philadelphia told them to stop fighting.
Your daughter killed herself. Case closed except twenty stab wounds

(20:59):
to the back of the neck, multiple catastrophic injuries, post
mortem wounds, strangulation marks, and a staged scene. All say otherwise.
More in a moment Alex Jones update. Six minutes Tuesday,

(21:25):
the Supreme Court rejected Alex Jones's appeal of the one
point four billion dollar Sandy Hook judgment no comment, didn't
even ask the families to respond, just denied. Jones had
argued the judge was wrong to find him liable without
a trial on the merits that he deserved a full trial,
that his First Amendment rights were violated. The Supreme Court disagreed,

(21:47):
or rather didn't care enough to explain why sometimes scotus
denials or statements themselves. This was one not worth our
time appeal denied move On background twenty twelve Sandy Hook
Elementary School shooting, twenty first graders and six educators killed
by a gunman in Newtown, Connecticut, one of the worst

(22:10):
school shootings in American history. Jones, on his Info Wars show,
repeatedly said the shooting never happened, called it staged, said
it was an effort to tighten gun laws, claimed the
parents were crisis actors whose children never existed. Relatives of
victims sued Jones in Connecticut and Texas won nearly one
point five billion dollars in judgments. In Connecticut, specifically, a

(22:34):
judge issued a rare default ruling against Jones because of
his repeated failure to abide by court rulings and to
turn over evidence. Convened a jury to determine damages. Jury
awarded nine hundred sixty four million dollars. Judge added four
hundred seventy three million dollars in punitive damages. Jones filed

(22:55):
for bankruptcy in late twenty twenty two. His lawyers told
the Supreme Court playintiffs have no possible hope of collecting
the entire judgment. He's separately appealing a forty nine million
dollar judgment in Texas. Now with Scotus denying his appeal,
the one point four billion dollar judgment stands, but Jones
can't pay it. He's in bankruptcy. His assets are being liquidated.

(23:20):
November twenty twenty four, the Onion was named winning bidder
in an auction to liquidate InfoWars assets, but the bankruptcy
judge threw out the auction, citing problems with the process
and the Onion's bid. The attempt to sell info Wars
moved to Texas State Court. Jones is appealing the appointment

(23:40):
of a receiver to liquidate assets. Some of Jones's personal
property is being sold as part of bankruptcy. Meanwhile, Sandy
Hook Families offered a settlement eighty five million dollars over
ten years. That's pennies on the dollar, less than six
percent of the one point four billion dollar judgment. But
it's realistic, Jones's lawyer told the court even eighty five

(24:04):
million dollars over ten years is too high. There are
no financials that will ever show that mister Jones ever
made that in ten years. The settlement offer gave Jones
two options, either liquidate his estate and give proceeds to creditors,
or pay at least eight point five million dollars a
year for ten years years plus fifty percent of any

(24:26):
income over nine million dollars per year. Jones's financial disclosures
about thirteen million dollars in total assets, including eight hundred
and fifty six thousand dollars in bank accounts. Free Speech
Systems info War's parent company expects to make about nineteen
point two million dollars next year from selling supplements, clothing,

(24:49):
and merchandise. Jones promotes operating expenses, including salaries, about fourteen
point three million dollars. That leaves roughly five million dollars
profit annually. A court appointed restructuring officer recently increased Jones's
salary from five hundred twenty thousand dollars annually to one
point five million dollars, saying he'd been grossly underpaid for

(25:11):
how vital he is to the company. But bankruptcy Judge
Christopher Lopez rejected that raise, saying it wasn't properly done
under bankruptcy law. The family's lawyers accused Jones of failing
to curb his extravagant lifestyle, failing to preserve holdings, refusing
to sell assets, failing to produce financial documents. Jones has

(25:33):
failed in every way to serve as the fiduciary mandated
by the bankruptcy Code. His time is up. If Jones
doesn't accept the settlement, Judge Lopez will determine how much
he pays. October ruling Jones cannot use bankruptcy protection to
avoid paying more than one point one billion dollars of
the debt. Relatives of Sandy Hook victims testified at trials

(25:56):
about being harassed and threatened by Jones's believers. People sent threats,
confronted grieving families in person, accused them of being crisis actors,
told them their dead children never existed. That's the legacy
of Jones's lies. Families who lost children in a school's
shooting spent years being harassed because a conspiracy theorist told

(26:18):
his audience the massacre was fake. Now Jones has a
one point four billion dollar judgment he can't pay. His
appeal to the Supreme Court was rejected without comment. His
assets are being liquidated. Sandy Hook families offered to settle
for eighty five million dollars, and his lawyer says even
that's too much. Alex Jones spent years calling Sandy Hook

(26:39):
a hoax. Now he'll spend the rest of his life
paying for it or trying to avoid paying, while bankruptcy
courts liquidate everything he owns. That's celebrity trials for Wednesday,
October fifteenth, twenty twenty five. Aaron Spencer shot his daughter's abuser,
a sixty seven year old facing forty sexual offense charges

(27:01):
who violated bond and a no contact order to abduct
Spencer's thirteen year old daughter. Spencer found her in the
man's truck, shot him dead. Now charged with second degree
murder and running for sheriff on a platform of protecting
families when the system fails. Trial in January election. Before that,

(27:22):
Ellen Greenberg stabbed twenty times, including ten to the back
of the neck. Philadelphia rules its suicide again, despite the
original pathologist now saying he was wrong, despite catastrophic wounds
that would cause unconsciousness, despite evidence of strangulation and post
mortem injuries, despite a scene that looked staged. Fourteen years

(27:45):
her parents still fighting, Philadelphia still refusing to investigate. Supreme
Court rejected Alex Jones's appeal no comment. One point four
billion dollar judgment stands. Sandy Hook families offered to settle
for eighty five million dollars over ten years. Jones's lawyer
says that's still too much. His assets are being liquidated.

(28:05):
He'll spend his life paying for calling a school shooting
a hoax. I'm read Carter. One father becoming a political candidate.
One suspicious death, ruled suicide twice, one conspiracy theorist losing everything.
See you tomorrow. By the way, we have a poll
going in our Facebook group's page. Do you want to
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(28:27):
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