August 7, 2025 • 68 mins
In this explosive episode of the Chakravyuh Podcast, host Gaurav Rawat sits down with Ujjwal Nikam, renowned public prosecutor and Rajya Sabha MP, to uncover the chilling details of Pakistan’s state-sponsored terrorism against India. From the 1993 Mumbai serial blasts that killed 257 people to the 26/11 terror attacks, Nikam reveals firsthand accounts of ISI’s involvement, the Hindu terror bogey, and how he fought to bring justice. Learn about the fake Hindu IDs used by Pakistani terrorists, David Headley’s revelations, and why Pakistan continues to target India. Don’t miss this gripping conversation!
Produced by Garvit Srivastava
Sound mixed by Rohan Bharti
Produced by Garvit Srivastava
Sound mixed by Rohan Bharti
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is India Today Podcasts. Hello and welcome to a
very special edition of the Chuck Review Podcast. I'm God
of seventh. My guest on the podcast today is very special.
He's someone who's battled Pakistan state sponsored radical Islamist terra
(00:25):
not just during twenty six eleven Mumbai terror attacks.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
In courts of law, but long before that.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
In fact, many in this generation perhaps may not even
remember how Pakistan state sponsored terror had hit India in
nineteen ninety three, and once again it was in India's
financial capital in Mumbai. Two hundred and fifty seven Indians
were massacred in twelve serial blasts in Mumba. In fact,
(00:56):
that was India's first experience with major serial blass us
in Maharashtra in Mumbai. It is my proud privilege to
welcome on this broadcast Ujual Nikam, Member of Parliament Rajasaba.
You've just been nominated as Member of Parliament Rajasaba by
President Rope with the Murmu So welcome on the Chuck
(01:16):
Review Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thank you, Gorodi. Indeed, it's my pleasure to also share
that with you on a very important and sensitive issue.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Western Nikam and I and I have had the privilege
of interacting with him very extensively during twenty six to
seven Mumbai terror attacks. But he's someone who's dealt with
Pakistan state sponsored terror.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
From much earlier.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And on this broadcast we will also raise the aspect
of that bogey of Hindu terror that was raised remembersab
In the ten nine other terrorists, the Pakistani terrrits who
came with him, they had tied that sacred h Dhaga
thread called Kalava, which David Coleman Headley had bought from
(01:59):
Sindl Mande. And that story he will tell you because
he knows that first and I know it through him.
But let's begin by the by talking about the nineteen
ninety three blast. So what had happened in Mumbai in
nineteen ninety three? Twelve serial plus Shuka country.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Very clearly that in nineteen ninety three, I was practicing
in Delga. It is a four hundred kilometers away from Mumbai.
And we all know that on twelve March ninety three,
not only Mumbi but the whole country was rocked by
the series of the powerful bomb blast And at Mumbi
(02:42):
there were the twelve bomb blasts and at one in
the same time. And then it was discovered that RDX
material was used. There is highly military explosive material and everybody.
Then I was invited to contact the trial within the
two months and I perused the investigation paper. It was
(03:03):
the Crime Branch of Mumbai Police was investigating the crime.
The Joint Shippy Commission of Police was heading the investigations
to Singh. And when I found that the time pencil
detonator was for the first time in India, it was used.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
To say.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Initially it was thought it was then a reaction of
some incident, but later only it was discovered that it
was sponsored by Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Say, I'm making this bold statement because we have the
evidence and in order to disclose that evidence and no
hesitation to say.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Initially, the conspiorrator meeting was held in Dubai. Now the
Ibrian was besides all that meeting, Tiger Mehman, his brothers
and ten persons were participate in that meeting. Now, besides
this ten persons, there were three guys who were unknown
okay in that Dubai meeting. Yes, and it was decided
(04:08):
to transport RDX. Now even I agreed to allow to
use a smuggling channel for transporting. Then RDX was smuggled
through A through c Rousi and then RDA is then
at forty son rifle, time pencil and et cetera, et cetera.
(04:32):
They landed at Digging and Kadi in Cocinavian marstra and
they were transported to Mumae and the plan was But
these some of some ecs were saying to Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We had an evidence that this nine to ten person
had gone to Islamabad.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
They London at Islambak. Their immigration formalities were a looked.
The immigration thought he at Islama. The airport did not
check their passport. They were allowed to go from the
airport to Wakan Tom Wakhanman is an ullness factory in
islam Bath and there they were trained. They were trained
(05:19):
how to handle how to fit RDX, how to fit
time pencil, how to love the Hungary and egg, how
to fire by eq.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Forty seven rifles, et cetera. Pakistan had spread terror in
a country in Punjab. Before that, you had dealt with
the chaos of Khalistani terrorists and unfortunately that Khalistan terror
is rearing its head once again. But I want to
come back to that very important point you've raised, and
many of our viewers and especially youngsters.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
May not know. So these people from Mumbai suspected terrorists.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
From Mumbai, they would fly to Dubai, whether to work
as plumbs or electricians.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
From there they would take a flight to Islamabad. From
Dubai to Islamabad, so there was an exist stamp on
their passport from Dubai, but no entry stamp into Islamabad.
Absolutely correct, oh my god, say. According to the international rules,
every country has to endorse disembarkation and embarkation correct on
(06:22):
the arrival of them departure of the any passenger on
the airport. But when their passport were seized Mumbai, we
found that on a particular.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Date they left Dubai and after ten fifteen days they
arrived in Dubai airport. But where they had gone, the
particular country had taken the precaution not to mention the
identity of that country on the passport. So we have
examined two persons. Amongst those twelve persons, we tended a
(06:58):
pardon to them. They became the prosecution witnesses. In legal terminology,
call is an approve approver and approv has disclosed. I
ask him, gentle, where you have gone because your passport
is this is your passport. Passport shows that you left
to be airport in particularly and after some days you
arriving there at airboat to be airport.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Where you had gone. Whether you're moving in there? They said, no, sir,
we had gone to Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Then whether the embargration disembarkations, Tom, we don't know the
three persons who.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Were accompanying us, yes, I said, God, so this is
another day. And that time when Mombi police filed the charity,
I told you, Mumbi police, look, we have to.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Involve the angle of the Pakistan party in the matter.
And accordingly we had done it.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
We have filed waging war in the government of a
charge against those people. But let one you know again
the dirty politics central agencies came in picture. They removed
the charge of Beijing Oregon governmental people. But why say,
I don't know the politics and what was their agenda
behind it?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I don't understand if Pakistan was waging war against India.
In nineteen ninety three Mumbai, two hundred and fifty seven
people died more than seven hundred were injured in twelve
serial glass across Mumbai.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Correct, why was the charge of waging war against India removed?
That reason?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm really I tried to ask, but you see, the
further investigation was not in my hand.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was not in Mumbi e police and you were
a young lawyer that I came from a pizzil area.
I was fighting even then in the Latinia had all
the case. I remember, yes, I remember reporting Latani I
had all was also one of the equis in the case. No,
in fact, I'm just coming to that.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So Sanjai, that Sanjay that had access to assault trifles,
in grenades and pistols. I believe that that was the
reporting that was done at that point of time. Means
you had argued that had Sanjay that disclosed this information
to the police, two.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Hundred and fifty seven lives could have been saved. Of course,
how sir, because what has happened Sanja that has also
confessed his crime under Tarak Now we have also arrested
some accused who had disclosed that.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
On a particular date, that is before the twelfth March,
one Tempo arrived at.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
His residence along with akeportisan rifles and anger.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He took out some leapon and hand grad again he
returned it and kept only see my contention to oppose
to reasive on the provision of offenders and on two
con Firstly he acquired pistol from such a person who
was very close associated to doubt that is unlicensed. And
(09:56):
second allegation of mine that Ha did his closed this
about all these things well in advance, we could have
averted it. Mombi Police could have averted the further explosion.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And Mumbai Police wasn't even aware that when they were
coming RDX was coming assault.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And military ordinance Pakistan ordnance factor and markings on those gameages.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I believe we have seized all these cartoons and all this. Yes,
and we're producing the court.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yes. And so Dao de Brahim he was one of
the biggest underworld downs.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
He his family, Tiger Memon and members of his family.
Right just before the blast, they left the country. What
was their role in the investigations.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
See now we have recorded that time the confession of
some of the q's under eighteen of pardakh Accus had
confessed letter and was also we have substantiated those confessions
by producing the other corroborative.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
If it does so we have.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
The chain of the circumstances, connecting the chain with the
accused of the crime.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Now Tiger Mehmon is a keepers in behind this. Now
Tiger Mehmon and.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
His brothers, their wives already left Al Husini building.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Before the blast. I think the tenth March they left
the family. We have seized some Ardiang also from in
the garage and all these things, and they're from Dubai.
After the explosure, they look Dubai. They went to Pakistan
and apparently still stay in Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That is what people say in Clifton Area Defense Defense
Housing Authority.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
In exactly, I don't know their location, but they are
in Pakistan. That is what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Now, that was the case where Pakistan bled two hundred
and fifty seven people in our country seven hundred injured.
What was Pakistan's motive in that Bombay terror attack?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In that Bombay serial. Right from the inception of Pakistan,
they tried to create a ripped.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
They tried. They are the most fundamentalist country. I had
been to Islam Maath and especially the Punjabi Muslims from Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
They hit India very badly.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And they pretend through all the mushairas that they love
India and that Paris call. We got it all bakwas
they are deadly against the Hindus. And that is the reason.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Because we found certain things also and I would like
to unglaring instance also when we were we were we
had visited the Home Ministry of the Pakistan. We had
a lot of deliberation. It's the Government of India's official delegation.
And when we pointed out that you did not charge
(13:11):
the criminal conspiracy for the people against whom you are proceeding, well,
their prosecutor has accepted mistake. And when we came back
to India, the prosecutor was murdered by the terrorists.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yes, we are a murdered. What was his fault? The
only fault that he accepted his mistake. In our medory
nineteen ninety three, Pakistan bled India. Two fifty seven people died.
Each target was carefully chosen, where the bombs were kept right.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
The aim was to.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Weaken India's financially paralyze this lecal lientary and to see
that the rip between in Hindus and the Muslim in
India will be a game.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Didn't please.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That was their hidden agenda and people like Brahim helped them.
People like Tiger Mehmon and others, they were involved in this.
Of course, Sanjada was convicted in the Arms that case
for illegally keeping a weapon. He will know the wider conspiracy.
He didn't know the wider conspiracy is what the courts felt.
But now let's move on to Pakistan repeatedly targeting Mumbai.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That wasn't the only time. And this was a long
drawn trial.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I believe the moment conviction started and you had painstakingly
gone through to ensure that evidence was produced in a
certain manner to my threatened you.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Were they threatened to kill you. I don't want to
disclose about all those things.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Somebody police had told me this when I was looking
at you, know when I when I met you after
twenty six eleven case, that's when I learned that you
were threatened hazard.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I don't want to make you the capital of that thing.
But let me deal livery frankly. When the final like
you who's in the ninety three bomb blast was a wigtail.
My first reaction to the media because that trial was
connecting the Orthodoor jail, Yes, jail, it must be over
by two thousand and six or seven trial. So my
first reaction was that I'm today happy because I am
(15:18):
now out of the orthodogin.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That was my erection.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So twelve years I was going and attending the court proceeding,
I was marginaling the evidence in the court. Or what
kind of evidence did you have in nineteen nineteen Nie,
We have the approar evidence.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Firstly, yes, with two aqs who had visited, who had
gone to the Pakistan, who are taking the training and
handling the sophisticated reapon like AK forty seven rifle. Then
we have the other eyewitnesses who had actually seen I
witness actually was seen that particular accuse had come. He
parked the scooter, cooter, taxi motor car and after immediately
(15:57):
after that carmel asast. So this type of chain of
circumands then pallastic expert opinion. Then we have the other
chain of circumstances connecting liqu with that try.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
And while Pakistan used some of our own people in
our country, that evidence of Pakistan's involvement was clear as
they that time.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, in fact it was a sponsor by the ISA people,
I must say now, and you had names of Si people.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
We had no names.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You don't have the name for both three persons are
not known to these Our police had tried to introgate them,
but they were not me and I believe them they
really they were not Ma. Their names must be knowing
to Tiger.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Memn yes or Tiger.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Because they're the ones they are shielded them in Pakistan
and help them build a master.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
The people who had gone to the Pakistan that way,
they are not very hardened criminals. Yes, they have been instigated,
They were provoke and from their headcore.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Subsequently, Sir Mumbai has repeatedly been struck two thousand and
six trained blasts, two hundred people were killed, twenty six
eleven after nineteen ninety three. Was that, in your appreciation,
the worst terror attack that we faced at the hands
of pakistan state sponsored apparatus you're talking about two thousand
(17:24):
and eight, yes, twenty six eleven Mumba.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, we had a strong evidence. That is the reason
as to why I club all these cases. This is
there a different attack in different places Cst Railway station, Yes, Hotel,
Taj Hotel, Overiye Kama Hospital, Merriman house. Then will only
chow party then our own maes died and these.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Are the places.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
And I was told at that time now Casab had
attack only CST Railways station and Tama Hospital.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Correct. Correct. I was told that only that case to
be tried against the Casaba and not other cases. I objected.
I said, why can I tell you who told you this?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
So that I don't want to die. I don't want
to make the capital unnecessary. But let me tell you
very frankly that the person who told me he was
holding a very key.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Position in the government administratively or politically in both.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Sense, in both sense, so that personal idea, that what
in the use in connecting the connecting all these cases together?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I told him, and like, no, we have to club
all these cases because it was a single criminal conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And somebody told you so already very powerful in the
government tried to tell you that try us up the only.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You say, you are a very smart guy. I don't
want to make a capital and you and the tribe.
But let me delivery fairly. So that that person was
telling me, if Bombler's case has taken failures, if you'll
club all other.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Cases to with this case, this case will again rack
for number one. I told him no, even if it
will be there. So we had to club all these cases.
These are not the separate that these are in pursuit
of the criminal conspiracy hatch outside.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
India on the sile, on the soil of any country.
That was my intention. Then in spite of his.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Advice, I told the Commissioner of Police Movement, no, we
had to have a single church. Yes, Hassan Maria Maria
was there and we've had a single church ship. So
say conspiracy was hatch in Pakistan. Criminal conspiracy cannot be divided.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
This is number one.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Number second reason was that our main charge was waging
Warian government.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Who way is war?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Some pundamentaries group in the Pakistan with the system the
by side people of Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
They were involved in the government so la back by
a yes.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
And then we had the evidence when I raised this
question in Pakistan after education of Khassam okay, look why
you did not charge against the perpetos the stock unserve
that mister Gam we don't have aviaders.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You had to find out and they did.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Incidentally, that Tarik Kosa report FIA chief. His report does
have some evidence. But I'll come to Tarek Kuosa Pakistan's
Federal Investigation Agency's boss.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And that article that he wrote in ruin Pakistan's down newspaper.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I'll just come to that in a moment, but I
want to come back for the again since two thousand
and eight when the terror attack happened. Initially, when that
firing took place at kef Yopo, that's the first time
all of us heard of that that firing. I was
the anchor also and CSD Railway Station, Chavaji Terminus railway station.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
The impression was it could have been gang war.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Where were you that time? What was your impression? How
did you get associated with that case? As you were
spec special Public prospector.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I was a SPP see normally the government appoints special
public personal only for a particular case.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Correct, can seeing the.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Magnitude and the enormity of the crime correct number one. Secondly,
at the time of that terror attack twenty six, I
was in the goa. I was attending my daughter's marriage ceremony.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Okay, And I got a call in the night mister
Ningham when you are living because I was in the
head plus security correct that time? After nineteen ninety three blasts, yes, correct,
and so that's the story that he doesn't want to
share in public domain.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
The information I got from my friends in Mumbai police
when I was coming twenty six to.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Eleven case was because nineteen ninety three blasts, the evidence
had been produced in such a solid way that people
were terrorists were being convicted, and some people did not
want terrorists convicted, so they threatened to kill you. And
it said, withdraw yourself will weaken the case may maybe weakened.
And I believe you refused. Oh but here, no, that's
(22:27):
why you had said, Ali, you had read all that already.
My family is also watching you.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It is rude.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
So we'll talk about that hard thing. So my security
people ask me when you are going to land Mumbi.
I said, I'm coming tomorrow morning, okay, all right. So
I arrived in the Mumbai then beIN two three days.
I was asked by the government to apparent conduct this
case and all these things. Then why I was insisting,
(22:54):
you say, CSD Railway station is not a government property,
hotelage is not a government property. Hotel I not government
come a hospital not but.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No Central Railway, Celtral railway station but not the state.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Correct the angle of in the government.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Okay, now you see if I would have separated all
these cases, how I could have been established weveging Morgan
government opinion. So not only that during these days the
attackers were interacting with their handlers in Pakistan in Karaate,
(23:40):
they has set up one control room. And when our
agencies had intercepted both calls, then we found the calls
were coming.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Emerging from dial Core double zero one, that is US
Core correct double ziero one. So our people that shock
the maddening quarry with the counterpart agency in US.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Then they confirmed that they had they were calling from
UP voice over internet call and the Karachi the call
original call was originating from UP to US and then
we were getting the call.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
We intercepted all conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Then I told our people, look, we had to produce
these phebis in the court of law. And accordingly we
produced it and on the basis of that material, I
successfully brought the charge of Beijing war agains the.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Government of India.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
This is not the only attack simple attack on Mumbai,
but this is a war against the government of India.
And for the first time in the history of India,
Supreme Court has accepted that this is attack on Mumbai
is not a simple attack, but it's a Beijing war.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Against the government Offridia.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I'm remain I'm I'm telling you what I could
not do in ninety three blast case, but in two
thousand and eight case, I have successfully proved that charge.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yes, and I'm surprised. You know, as an aside, I
was covering twenty six.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
You know, whether it was at the Taj or at
the Nariman House or at the Obroy or at Shivaji terminus.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You know, these terrorists were striking and killing people at will.
At will. They were shooting and killing people.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
In indiscriminate firing and from Taj when we were reporting
outside the Taj, they even hurled a grenade outside.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
And I mean fortunately I was staying nearby that hotel
only right in the hotel I was staying because I
know how is that? Yes, sically, I used to come
from Jalga right right, So Amkasavan. Thank God for Shiit
Tu Karamble, Thank God this nation them a great aways
(26:03):
ajmel Amasa had a fake identity card if I remember.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
All belonging to Hindu name, all Hindu Ni all ten
surprising how they have played planning all these identity cards.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Where is the Hindu name?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
College is particular, so I told my investigating agency, but
we have to examine the concern college. I produce the
principle of the concern college and asking whether Palana Palana
students was playing in your college.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
He said, no, sir, this is our attendance register. This
is your registration book. So we produced.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We removed that possibility I was anticipating in supposed tomorrow
Pakistan will take a stand. They were having the identity card,
They were having the red thread which they have surrounded
on the outer risks there so showing that they were
the Hindu and not the Milk clave. So we have
removed all these doubts amazing probable and the possible attack
(27:00):
of the defense team or any tip. And the most
important thing we have conducted this style in the open court.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, we allowed the media.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
The government during that time the government was of the
opinions we should not allow the media.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I said no. Let the media should know foreign media,
Indian media all will have women present in the court.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
They witnessed the incident and played the very different different
dramas in the court. You also did play one drama
when when you said, it's called Brianni Hilary mahra it
both historic story, historically the facts.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Sail or the last.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Post company si Maha my mother rather.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Or story the Puri charm jan.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Shu Ca he Jo blocks right a Bailey by oh
is it m M M mich to God section Catri
to Bailey the miss direction. Then all excuse the recupery.
(28:42):
Ha I secured your recupery. They were my ninety he said,
two thousy thirteen MMBI hotel, met her Friday night when
missy his wife or my man I used to call
(29:05):
me ba.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
My mec believe a pining both interesting mull but really
no Baptist liking.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Liking.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You have approach to the wrong track. Now you're going
to so far form that this is called the realization
of your mistake. And if I could realize, yes I
had this good good qualification, but unfortunately I adopt a
wrong path and now I will be convicted. This repentance
(29:59):
is to be a rose in his mind.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
My toe rakent like you saw him Shavan behind k
(30:24):
k Hi Mederica, but not.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or when you have Queenie by Pakistan. It's a super.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
N what he was talking then I explained in the
old episode what I was talking to you in the
open port, this is it happened.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
That was mathmatic person. He was a very good shooter.
But and in the sophisticated weaponels because music up channel
the logo.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Benji but only breaking the s is weeping, was remembering
his sister.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Mister Ningham has his question and then he realized he
was remembering his sister.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's just a bigging and other.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
People were carrying the channel panel of debate. This is
the failure of the government. He could not be the
main for petals because the scapeboard. He was brain washed
and et cetera. Then he campaign correct, human active stock,
(31:50):
so you should agency whose time you will be Vans or.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Bank or pick daily briefing that barn so j Verdica briefing.
They would go answer. Then media started asking me question, mister,
(32:22):
what is your first take?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I was weeping. I was remaining his sister and he
was remembering weeping because of you. They were accusing me.
You opened the topic and except accept and he said
it's your escape board. It's a government failure. You could
not bring the real people.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Man. I would just look all the side and they
said Marji waking.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
You should should panel journal but yeah, they would give
Coker when I said, bullet come, but don't be any
money play bullet many they can have a political leaders
and look, don't be any here.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What does court made? This issue was raised. His lawyer
has raised this question saying that is my have never
asked for He asked to mister Nikam how this could happen.
J you can make it inquiry with the CASA, whether
(33:24):
he likes it or not, whether you ask did not reply.
I mean such a many who he can he and
our culture says once person has gone is not in
the world. We should not speak bad about the kia.
Joe as Narova mahabarat kiyagar gurud to you? Is your
(34:01):
saying maraga like in januarya Insan.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Christian are a podcast can chak review, Hey, Hey, jivan
Ka chak review he Agan Pakistanka involvement Chai gharame Katha
Joe tash tyren evidence Pakistan involved. This is a very
important question which you had raised because when I had
(34:33):
been to Islambat, we're discussing with the their Home Ministry official.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
They said that where is evidence that our people was
a state participan active participant in this crime. We had
no evidence.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I told him that you had to find out because
KASA has consisted on the basis of the Kasaf concession.
We are a lazy that you had to find out
that they said no, no mission, Cup.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
We can't do that. Our commission came back reput in
the comment.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Then I've read plea bargain agreement which worked between David
Hedley and US comment.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
US has agreed that he will not be saying to
Gallows if he gives his confession and discloses everything in Briturn,
he would not transfer to India, India or Pakistan or Sir.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Botch and Chicago Federal vote room with trial cover room
my commanding position.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
NEI you have present? I was present there, Sir Chicago,
David Coleman.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Or Voluk prosecutor Joe Federal prosecutors there, Chicago Federal Court
six jam trial.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
To David Coleman Headley. Wahi Americans.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
We bought AJEEBSA accused number A bika yeah a b C.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So what happened? Okay? Other government strong rhee.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Government politicians strong will rahe so we can take many
important decisions the matter. I'm talking from the legal says,
I'm not politically talking. I have a good experience about this.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
When I read that David hidley' splee bargain agreement, then
I thought, okay, I must use this to bring down
Pakistan and to expose Pakistan in the group. So I
told Krishta police during that time different dial there. Look,
(37:04):
we will tend, will examine this David Hidley as a witness.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And will take his evidence. Will tend we'll pardon him
and will take INDs. Their contention was David Hidley is
one of the q's in the terror attack of twenty
sixth member. He had visited Mombay before the terror attack
and even after the terror attack.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
He took the photographs of the targeted places. He sent
to the share with the uh less character. Dava, how
can we examine as a witness.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
That was the ring day.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I told him say, in any case, he's not going
to come to us. In any case us, he's not
going to center us in any case. That pleave argument
agreement has a legal wetage.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
What is the point in bringing him?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Alohney, he won't come, He said, no, no, no, mister,
this is something we don't we can't accept.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I was really helpless. Then I thought what to do.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Immediately I called the Chief Minister during that time, mister
deven Rechiefronvis was the chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
He gave me an appointment. I met him in the
night at his ACI official residence.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I explained him. I told him he now in English,
there's a problem. Set a tip to catch a Thingamasha. Yeah,
he was really hungry.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yes, he liked that idea. He said that what help
you do you require? Then I came to Delhi. I
made the mister nest essay, mister dobulsap and explaining. He said,
all right, if you want that, I'm ready to give.
He fixed my apartment will be I come about Underset
from Washington. I went there myself, when the Joint Commissioner Police,
(39:01):
mister Tilton.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Kerney, we both went there. Then I made their deputy
Attorney general. When US people as usual never asking why
do you want to examine David? What is the point
see double agent car rule.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
We will go to Chuck.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'm going to examine how may if you won't give
us allow us to examine it. There is a cause
that we ask for his death penalty. Oh so the
American nationals had lost their lives. Biz Gareth, No, we'll
ask for the death penalty to him. In US also
(39:42):
will point out all but there are no we have done.
We have no objection.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
But for what purpose we want?
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So we have to examine. We never disclosed that we
are we want to use it. What is the main intension,
et cetera. This is a real story, I'm telling you.
Then ultimately they agreed. Then through we have examined David,
and not only that, dourog he gave a sensitive revelation
disclosing the eyes I connection.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
With less people. Emilta, you pushed the devide.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
See immediately after the attack Pakistan government at the instance
of US. That attracted Hati Sage and j Q Rahman
Lucky House Arizona data.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
David really pushed Tai Bacha that Lashkar operative replied him, Drama, he.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Was quote sure. Then I asked him, who's the David.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
This is a record movement quote doctor Jason. The foreign
minister was that time foreign secretary. We send the whole
evidence to mister or foreign secretary who.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Sent to the Pakistan. Then Pakistan kept Pakistan. I never lived.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You were also in touch with mister Douger half A
Saidakila when the dossiers were given, No, no, no, not
directly okay, because they claimed that none of that evidence
was good enough to prosecute him in court of law.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think that Pakistan didn't reply. Pakistan was wadi that
was see what was the avidience? What was the condition
of dvid and he will give evidence? They should have
taken that evidence.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Correct, We have fundished the prime of his You also
asked for voice sample of half A.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Saide our agencies have our agencies Our agencies.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Wanted because he was there in that control room. No,
he was not in that country. He was not there.
Speaker 4 (41:45):
No mother persons were control room. One of the Indian
persons was in the country. Yes, it's a prosecution. The
prosecution which hind I remember that case.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
His name is Jindal Abu Jindal. Absolutely, what's stellar memories?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Sir?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So there was evidence because if I remember Tarik Kosa's
investigation in Pakistan, Joe koke that empty cartridges that were
found in Mumbai, Yes, were they were matched with the
empty cartridges that were found in Tata, in Synde, wahakan
proment and in Wahak.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And there were the printing endorsement also and Arjas hand
grenade sixty nine which were locked correct during the terror
during the attack on Bumbai on trails March that were
manufactured in arjis And.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And these were apparently Polish grenades or some such. We
have made a lessons having house people also correct. They
gave license to Pakistan too, Manufat and Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I read that entire judge. Yes, and you know since
I was pursuing that case. So what else did David
Coleman Hedley reveal.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Because he'd met half his side, he'd also met Ilias
KASHMIRI I.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Believe, yes, he made ja email commander, not that I
was happy. I was.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Then he gave the email correspondence. He gave the mobile
numbers of.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
The ISI people with their designations lepren colonel correct. Correct.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So that was involvement of Pakistan's is SI in twenty
six eleven. But Pakistan never took action against half his
saide what.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Not.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
And we don't know the trial whether what has happened
about that trial. They arrested some petty people.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Correct, like Sergia for the being the Financa. No, they
are not arrested. Also, Okay, and that trial is in
the camera.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
We don't know what has happened there and been convicted acquitted,
We don't know they were informost So.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
There was this since I covered twenty six eleven and
i'd also covered the but Hand Court Uh terror attack.
Did they did the pakistanis tell you you did not
permit us to come to Mumbai to investigators that they
told us they told they said that. In fact, we
asked for the joint investigation. Why what is the purpose
(44:16):
the attack took place in Mumbai? Nine terrorists well neutralized
only one live terrorist. You strive between the Mumbi What
type of investigations.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Do you want? But they use that as an excuse
and that they were trying to avoid to prosecute the
real propert. Did you find it odd sir that.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
You know there was this bogie of Hindu terror that
was spread in our country and ten Pakistani terrorists come.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
They all have Hindu names.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
They all have fake identity cards like if I remember correctly,
Off and an identity card which said beneath Jadhari or
something something.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You know, if I remember the name correctly, Uh and
Uh from Bangalore.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes, we have examined the Bangalo principle, also studying in
some we need children. So you know, political leaders in
India or a certain ecosystem in India was spreading this
thing about Hindu terror. Malagau blast. They said, Hindu terror.
And I believe, I mean just verys Sad has been
(45:22):
acquitted and and others have been acquitted two thousand and
six Malagau blast. They said, when terrorists had been arrested,
they led them off and said Hindu terror. Some Jhata
blast they said, Hindu terror, and then ten Pakistani terrorists
come with Hindu names. What is your reading of that situation?
All the ISS staty entering this is complete Pakistanis strategy
(45:48):
adopted by some of their political party in India and
especially I have no hesitation to say, and especially in
the Malaga blast case.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
What has happened? No, but why would why would some
people in India a doc Pakistan's ISI strategy?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
You please ask this question to those politicians who have
developed this theory unnecessary without any valid reason. Because even
in samjhatayah Un and US both sanctioned are If Kasmanio flash.
(46:28):
They said, he's the financier. Some people were arrested. Absolutely,
but they were let off and this boogie of Hindu
terror This.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Is I don't know why the political party in our
country is playing sincerity game.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Were ten Pakistani terrorists?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Comes?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
They have all Hindu names? Yes, they all have kala?
Who interrogated Headley about the kalav?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Also, I didn't improgate Headley as such, but I was
introgeting in the port through you only right, yes about
the Headley how he came, what is relation with Tawana
except okay?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So when I was in the Chicago Code, this question
of the sacred thread or that kalava cropped up, and
when the FBI asked him, he said he had picked
it up from the Syde All right, this is David
Readley has said like. And I was there in vote
when he said, you know when when we did a
story on India today, we did a story that he
(47:30):
bought kalava from Sydevani Temple. He wanted to target Sidevan Temple.
He also wanted to target DYCE in Delhi. Then he said,
instead of you're terrorists killing themselves trying to kill one
brigade commander in the l OC, target nd CN Delhi
and kill fifteen twenty.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Brigadiers in one go. That is how his evil mind works.
And Rana was with him. You are so interrogated. No,
I didn't even target. No, you didn't okay, But now
that he is in India, he will be okay.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Now, I want to move forward to this entire your
appreciation of nineteen ninety three blast, then two thousand and
six trained again two hundred people had unfortunately died in this.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And then twenty six eleven.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
But Pakistan continued to bleed us even subsequently, whether it's
Patan Court or pull Obama or Pehelgam. What is your
overall appreciation on India's war on terror, Sir? Since you've
dealt with it from its mason stages Punjab Terra. You
handled a case in Mumba nineteen ninety one if I
remember the year, Yes, that is the Karistan Command of
(48:41):
Khalistan Kam and you've got a conviction in that, yes,
which was very difficult, mad thing. But t was a
hardcore terrorist from Panya and he blasted some local train
years in the Divaris season. So I prosecuted him and
I conducted trial in the Nasi court in Marasta and
(49:03):
he was convicted theron there so why have terrorists and
Pakistan through these terrorists, whether it's Khalistani terrorists or Lashkari
Taiba terrorists or the so called Indian Muchai think terrace
targeted Mumbai repeatedly and the trains of Mumbai is it
targeting lifelie.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Mumbai is the financial very big central economics center for
the whole country.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
And if Mumbai's it is rocked, the whole country will
be rough. That is an idea Number one.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Number two reasons according to me that Mumbai is a
mixed population and secondly they wanted to create a ripped
communal communal division. That is the reason as to why
they wanted to do some of these activities. But now
I think it's is not Mumbai.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
After the terror attack of twenty six number our government
has taken a lot of precautions and now will happen.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Because after twenty six eleven they attacked German bakery, we
had fatalities, then the attacks a very bazar once again.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
You know, I have conducted that gette of India Away
of India is a theme bomb last year two thousand
and three, No.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Eleven, ninety, twenty thirteen or regular and thirty.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
So which means from nineteen ninety three till twenty twenty
five when Pehelgan happened again, they singled out Hindus to
kill so that there could be a communal divide. So
in Pakistan's mind, if you were to read, Pakistan wants
to ensure.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
There is a Hindu Muslim right in our country.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Absolutely correct, But unfortunately Muslim community in India they don't understand.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
This is the whole reason.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
This has seen right from nineteen ninety three, how Muslim
community being provoked by pakistan people.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
That is the reason.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Then they provoc they instigate on the ground of religion,
on the ground of the other things.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
And all these things.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Tell me, Sir, in your appreciation, and since you dealt
with nineteen ninety three and Daudebrahim still lives in Pakistan,
Tiger women still lives in Pakistan, can they ever be
prosecuted in your appreciation or whart Synically, as long as the.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
ISI is very strong in Pakistan, it's very difficult that
Pakistan we can expect anything from Pakistan. See virtually Pakistan
army is ruling the Pakistan. Pakistan is the Kokla, the
common man in Pakistan. He has some affection towards India
excluding Panjabi Pakistan. I'm telling you I had been along
(51:51):
with my other members of the official dedication.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
We pour were there.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
We had visited Pakistan market. Also, the common man has
a good feeling of.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Pakistan about India. But so far as the Panjabi slip
community is concerned from they hate us. They hate us.
We never hit so just see the difference. But they
hate us. How do you come to that conclusion that
they hate us? Why do you see that? Why do
(52:21):
you feel the.
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Actual Cassab and Hindis other people boys who had come
from Pakistan lived from the Punjab. Basically they were not
fluent in Hindi and Panjabi extent. Thirdly, they of course
they were brain washed, no doubt. And our people have
tried to remove that misconception so from the mind of Casabo.
(52:42):
So but this can be read because Cassab has ultimately
accepted he gave the confession that the reason.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
So they're systematically brainwashed. Systematically that is their main capital
to Pakistan Kajo or cricket week Hello. In the film banalop.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Apkak appreciation a section of a film industry and cook
he evil plane Reki.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Or in to interrogate question wik, what is your n
personally intret Yes, in the quote I haven't trogated him.
You are right in code having trogeated witnesses. So and
I have seen the investigation peoples, I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
By Bollywood. David Coleman ham We Scooby examined. Scooby on
the examining say as Bi Hamanniki, David really looks like
(54:14):
sam My Americans.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
One person, in fact, he had asked him.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Many They had sent one email to Lescar Operaduce saying
that if his parana man is to para close, how
can we use it? And he was directed by Lesker Operatu.
My god, with that matter stopped, that matter stopped killer wise,
(55:03):
that person was very keen to vote to him.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
My god. There are so many things, but I don't
want to divorce so many things on camera because see
certain things that not to be disclosed and diverge. David
Colvin Hedley kasif is hero was in touch with just
a few people.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Parts of India, Mahuma. David Colvin Hedley, parts of India, Mahuma,
Quick Kamithini top both Sleeper.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
That is the job of the investigating agency in the
CID and IB and raw people, both.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Sleepers, but now everybody is scared.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
I'm telling you our law is deterrent, and fortunately our
Prime Minister is very stick in taking action against such people,
and especially in the government also state governmentals.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
They're very strict nowadays. So I'm happy you're happy. Yes,
I'm very happy. You know we have only reported in
these cases you have prosecuted this.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Let's make tell you very frankly, without diverging the name
of the case and the name I send one later
note to our Union Home minister. Mister he immediately took
the cognizance and immediately he set right that. So I
(56:34):
am very happy to say on the camera this is
the prompt action and why why are that in the
interest of country? And immediately he took the cognis I
have the wise the bad experience of other souls, of
which I don't want to connect Jesse.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I mean I am He's like, I don't like to
do that.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
See, I'm really I'm here as a un advocate, not
as a politician. True, true, as I've known you as yes,
present the good things and for the reason that others
should be also encouraged in the interest of our country.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
See I'm looking at him very from a different angle.
My Indians whom mira de hm her body You see
my SCE practice on the criminals signed a number of years.
(57:51):
Body language is then I can understand no is that's.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
NATO body language Saya And I say this repeatedly sha
or paka Pakistani.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Interrogation ki Pakistani arna Hindu. Not only that this is
a good thing that you opened this topy I I
would like to share the copy. It is not only that.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
One big politician of Congress when I was contesting election,
no recently I was asked to contest the election.
Speaker 1 (58:53):
I love the elections by movie Central, that one senior
congress leader. What he said, mister, would you only come
this cue says kick Conte Asa inspector.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Are usually gonna malon t would you only can like
Chuba key is usually come this Decryama host of jar
big auto t k.
Speaker 3 (59:33):
Ride prop. So we have the evidence, ballastic expert. I
bitness is everything. But in kind of that, these politicians
would like to play such aty game.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
I need to go to release r SS retired police officer.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
If that is America Pakistani Intercept module FAA investigation.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
And yet they're saying to k.
Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
A B I can lebot a B A agent A
quote makes them in can see a BI agent D
came to Mumbai and they gave the evidence. Our officer
told me we too, we will take the evidence from
videoing Milan. No, US people also must understand CATCHCD. Then
(01:00:40):
two agents came up from a BI the depots for
U I P not only one vie O I P
and GPS destroy. They retrieved the data from Karachi to
Mumbai and correct.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Correct. Crystals had talk with so many big people, so
many big people money but to be some thing you
don't ask me, but I'm telling you, Joe Pakistani.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Bay some people we have the intercept in that conversation.
Also not the avay with the things.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
But some body log in India were in touch with
the ten pakistanis not really touch.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Let me tell you very clearly, they were not in touch.
They were doing some threatening and to the other people
threatening echo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
If I if I remember correctly, I think when this
case was one for them and I was also there,
they wanted to be released.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
No, they didn't wanted to be released, but they had
put some demand also. But Nevern. But let me tell
you very clearly, only these ten peoples came from Pakistan.
There was not any support from the internal side. And
they were in touch with the foreign on v in yes. No, yes,
(01:02:14):
they talked with foreign envy. They were asking some demands
and all these things. Let on the conictor. They talked
with media people. They talk to media people, people, they
talk with people. Are the record, Yes see.
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Our people agency people were had the reservation that to
produce the cwees.
Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
They said that we should not.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I said no, we had to produce it because we
had to steady the charge of Beijing war again the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Government of damaging hey cap Yes, Pakistani Hamara, Hamara.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Or Hamara.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
How will we fight with Pakistan states once at if
we are so divided as a country.
Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Now, we will fight it under the leadership of Prime
Minister one hundred person. I'm sure about that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But aprist Is operations in the only way to deal
with Pakistan up to ninety three clear Up Nate twenty
six eleven, De klea Apne Khalistan Terror, de klea Apnate
two thousand and six blasts with those Kleia plus there
have been so many other cases where they've waged war
against the country. They've they've hit us in our temples,
(01:03:31):
They've hit us in our economic centers. They've hit our schools,
they've hit the malls, they've hit our marketplaces. Abhamara des
si file min shelta abamara the goalies, hey Jaba Medica
operations in.
Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Surgical strike iska just to tell them, just to warn
them or they Yeah, I'm limited Geneva Convention Article one
sixty for no other country in the bird has raised
(01:04:14):
any question on the Finder attack. Yeah, we are now
very soon. We are very firm in taking the act. Yeah,
nea a Chap, Are you aware of what was happening?
(01:04:40):
I don't know what is your appreciation.
Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I can't say no because I was not a party
to the dialogue. I was concerned with the legal proceed
but product governes with like an operations, operations in the
must surgical style.
Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Yes, and also absolutely, I mean I I personally think that.
Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
And since I've covered Pakistan state on said radio, Islamish
Terra and the Kargio War of nineteen eighty nine to
Pakistan or Brad that is, I'm of that considered opinion. Sir.
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
You know people may like it, people may not.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
But I am of the considered opinion that Pakistan does
not understand among Kiyasha. We have tried, We've repeatedly tried
trick trick Pakistan Shan that the fundamental is radical.
Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Or fundamental is to Pakistan itself has to take a
strong action Pakistan Jab tie.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
The Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Preemptive strike is the easily operations Indura is always on,
absolutely absolutely cinema fundamental army, public school attack Army.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Pakistan or the collateral damages, the Kaman to Pakistan power.
Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Pakistan is a very beach country, is depending upon so
many countries big. The financial action Tasport had taken action.
Again the financial transport lead the funds in their favor.
Pakistan Army mutilized to Humluk legally quick case milk, thank
you legally con So Bromos does the work for you.
(01:07:21):
I will let that be the last word on this
part of the show. But brilliant talking to you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Thank you very much for joining me on this special podcast,
and thank you for being a part of that war
on Pakistan state sponsored terror in.
Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Ports of law. Legally defeating them was extremely important. Thank
you very much. So that is all I have for
you on this part of the Chuck Review podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Nicam Special Public
Prosecutor at that point of time, Raja MP right now
and someone who's legally evidence based.
Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Action on Pakistan Terra.
Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Whther it's nineteen ninety three or twenty six eleven Mumbai
terror attacks. Let's hope in future we're able to destroy
terror at source before it reaches our borders.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Many thanks for watching and listening.
Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Would request you to subscribe to the India Today podcast
to watch us and constantly join us.
Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Thank you very much, Navascar and Jad
This is India Today Podcasts. Hello and welcome to a
very special edition of the Chuck Review Podcast. I'm God
of seventh. My guest on the podcast today is very special.
He's someone who's battled Pakistan state sponsored radical Islamist terra
(00:25):
not just during twenty six eleven Mumbai terror attacks.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
In courts of law, but long before that.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
In fact, many in this generation perhaps may not even
remember how Pakistan state sponsored terror had hit India in
nineteen ninety three, and once again it was in India's
financial capital in Mumbai. Two hundred and fifty seven Indians
were massacred in twelve serial blasts in Mumba. In fact,
(00:56):
that was India's first experience with major serial blass us
in Maharashtra in Mumbai. It is my proud privilege to
welcome on this broadcast Ujual Nikam, Member of Parliament Rajasaba.
You've just been nominated as Member of Parliament Rajasaba by
President Rope with the Murmu So welcome on the Chuck
(01:16):
Review Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thank you, Gorodi. Indeed, it's my pleasure to also share
that with you on a very important and sensitive issue.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Western Nikam and I and I have had the privilege
of interacting with him very extensively during twenty six to
seven Mumbai terror attacks. But he's someone who's dealt with
Pakistan state sponsored terror.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
From much earlier.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And on this broadcast we will also raise the aspect
of that bogey of Hindu terror that was raised remembersab
In the ten nine other terrorists, the Pakistani terrrits who
came with him, they had tied that sacred h Dhaga
thread called Kalava, which David Coleman Headley had bought from
(01:59):
Sindl Mande. And that story he will tell you because
he knows that first and I know it through him.
But let's begin by the by talking about the nineteen
ninety three blast. So what had happened in Mumbai in
nineteen ninety three? Twelve serial plus Shuka country.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Very clearly that in nineteen ninety three, I was practicing
in Delga. It is a four hundred kilometers away from Mumbai.
And we all know that on twelve March ninety three,
not only Mumbi but the whole country was rocked by
the series of the powerful bomb blast And at Mumbi
(02:42):
there were the twelve bomb blasts and at one in
the same time. And then it was discovered that RDX
material was used. There is highly military explosive material and everybody.
Then I was invited to contact the trial within the
two months and I perused the investigation paper. It was
(03:03):
the Crime Branch of Mumbai Police was investigating the crime.
The Joint Shippy Commission of Police was heading the investigations
to Singh. And when I found that the time pencil
detonator was for the first time in India, it was used.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
To say.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Initially it was thought it was then a reaction of
some incident, but later only it was discovered that it
was sponsored by Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Say, I'm making this bold statement because we have the
evidence and in order to disclose that evidence and no
hesitation to say.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Initially, the conspiorrator meeting was held in Dubai. Now the
Ibrian was besides all that meeting, Tiger Mehman, his brothers
and ten persons were participate in that meeting. Now, besides
this ten persons, there were three guys who were unknown
okay in that Dubai meeting. Yes, and it was decided
(04:08):
to transport RDX. Now even I agreed to allow to
use a smuggling channel for transporting. Then RDX was smuggled
through A through c Rousi and then RDA is then
at forty son rifle, time pencil and et cetera, et cetera.
(04:32):
They landed at Digging and Kadi in Cocinavian marstra and
they were transported to Mumae and the plan was But
these some of some ecs were saying to Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We had an evidence that this nine to ten person
had gone to Islamabad.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
They London at Islambak. Their immigration formalities were a looked.
The immigration thought he at Islama. The airport did not
check their passport. They were allowed to go from the
airport to Wakan Tom Wakhanman is an ullness factory in
islam Bath and there they were trained. They were trained
(05:19):
how to handle how to fit RDX, how to fit
time pencil, how to love the Hungary and egg, how
to fire by eq.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Forty seven rifles, et cetera. Pakistan had spread terror in
a country in Punjab. Before that, you had dealt with
the chaos of Khalistani terrorists and unfortunately that Khalistan terror
is rearing its head once again. But I want to
come back to that very important point you've raised, and
many of our viewers and especially youngsters.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
May not know. So these people from Mumbai suspected terrorists.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
From Mumbai, they would fly to Dubai, whether to work
as plumbs or electricians.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
From there they would take a flight to Islamabad. From
Dubai to Islamabad, so there was an exist stamp on
their passport from Dubai, but no entry stamp into Islamabad.
Absolutely correct, oh my god, say. According to the international rules,
every country has to endorse disembarkation and embarkation correct on
(06:22):
the arrival of them departure of the any passenger on
the airport. But when their passport were seized Mumbai, we
found that on a particular.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Date they left Dubai and after ten fifteen days they
arrived in Dubai airport. But where they had gone, the
particular country had taken the precaution not to mention the
identity of that country on the passport. So we have
examined two persons. Amongst those twelve persons, we tended a
(06:58):
pardon to them. They became the prosecution witnesses. In legal terminology,
call is an approve approver and approv has disclosed. I
ask him, gentle, where you have gone because your passport
is this is your passport. Passport shows that you left
to be airport in particularly and after some days you
arriving there at airboat to be airport.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Where you had gone. Whether you're moving in there? They said, no, sir,
we had gone to Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Then whether the embargration disembarkations, Tom, we don't know the
three persons who.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Were accompanying us, yes, I said, God, so this is
another day. And that time when Mombi police filed the charity,
I told you, Mumbi police, look, we have to.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Involve the angle of the Pakistan party in the matter.
And accordingly we had done it.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
We have filed waging war in the government of a
charge against those people. But let one you know again
the dirty politics central agencies came in picture. They removed
the charge of Beijing Oregon governmental people. But why say,
I don't know the politics and what was their agenda
behind it?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I don't understand if Pakistan was waging war against India.
In nineteen ninety three Mumbai, two hundred and fifty seven
people died more than seven hundred were injured in twelve
serial glass across Mumbai.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Correct, why was the charge of waging war against India removed?
That reason?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm really I tried to ask, but you see, the
further investigation was not in my hand.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was not in Mumbi e police and you were
a young lawyer that I came from a pizzil area.
I was fighting even then in the Latinia had all
the case. I remember, yes, I remember reporting Latani I
had all was also one of the equis in the case. No,
in fact, I'm just coming to that.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So Sanjai, that Sanjay that had access to assault trifles,
in grenades and pistols. I believe that that was the
reporting that was done at that point of time. Means
you had argued that had Sanjay that disclosed this information
to the police, two.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Hundred and fifty seven lives could have been saved. Of course,
how sir, because what has happened Sanja that has also
confessed his crime under Tarak Now we have also arrested
some accused who had disclosed that.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
On a particular date, that is before the twelfth March,
one Tempo arrived at.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
His residence along with akeportisan rifles and anger.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He took out some leapon and hand grad again he
returned it and kept only see my contention to oppose
to reasive on the provision of offenders and on two
con Firstly he acquired pistol from such a person who
was very close associated to doubt that is unlicensed. And
(09:56):
second allegation of mine that Ha did his closed this
about all these things well in advance, we could have
averted it. Mombi Police could have averted the further explosion.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And Mumbai Police wasn't even aware that when they were
coming RDX was coming assault.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And military ordinance Pakistan ordnance factor and markings on those gameages.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I believe we have seized all these cartoons and all this. Yes,
and we're producing the court.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yes. And so Dao de Brahim he was one of
the biggest underworld downs.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
He his family, Tiger Memon and members of his family.
Right just before the blast, they left the country. What
was their role in the investigations.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
See now we have recorded that time the confession of
some of the q's under eighteen of pardakh Accus had
confessed letter and was also we have substantiated those confessions
by producing the other corroborative.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
If it does so we have.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
The chain of the circumstances, connecting the chain with the
accused of the crime.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Now Tiger Mehmon is a keepers in behind this. Now
Tiger Mehmon and.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
His brothers, their wives already left Al Husini building.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Before the blast. I think the tenth March they left
the family. We have seized some Ardiang also from in
the garage and all these things, and they're from Dubai.
After the explosure, they look Dubai. They went to Pakistan
and apparently still stay in Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That is what people say in Clifton Area Defense Defense
Housing Authority.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
In exactly, I don't know their location, but they are
in Pakistan. That is what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Now, that was the case where Pakistan bled two hundred
and fifty seven people in our country seven hundred injured.
What was Pakistan's motive in that Bombay terror attack?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In that Bombay serial. Right from the inception of Pakistan,
they tried to create a ripped.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
They tried. They are the most fundamentalist country. I had
been to Islam Maath and especially the Punjabi Muslims from Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
They hit India very badly.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And they pretend through all the mushairas that they love
India and that Paris call. We got it all bakwas
they are deadly against the Hindus. And that is the reason.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Because we found certain things also and I would like
to unglaring instance also when we were we were we
had visited the Home Ministry of the Pakistan. We had
a lot of deliberation. It's the Government of India's official delegation.
And when we pointed out that you did not charge
(13:11):
the criminal conspiracy for the people against whom you are proceeding, well,
their prosecutor has accepted mistake. And when we came back
to India, the prosecutor was murdered by the terrorists.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yes, we are a murdered. What was his fault? The
only fault that he accepted his mistake. In our medory
nineteen ninety three, Pakistan bled India. Two fifty seven people died.
Each target was carefully chosen, where the bombs were kept right.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
The aim was to.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Weaken India's financially paralyze this lecal lientary and to see
that the rip between in Hindus and the Muslim in
India will be a game.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Didn't please.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That was their hidden agenda and people like Brahim helped them.
People like Tiger Mehmon and others, they were involved in this.
Of course, Sanjada was convicted in the Arms that case
for illegally keeping a weapon. He will know the wider conspiracy.
He didn't know the wider conspiracy is what the courts felt.
But now let's move on to Pakistan repeatedly targeting Mumbai.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That wasn't the only time. And this was a long
drawn trial.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I believe the moment conviction started and you had painstakingly
gone through to ensure that evidence was produced in a
certain manner to my threatened you.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Were they threatened to kill you. I don't want to
disclose about all those things.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Somebody police had told me this when I was looking
at you, know when I when I met you after
twenty six eleven case, that's when I learned that you
were threatened hazard.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I don't want to make you the capital of that thing.
But let me deal livery frankly. When the final like
you who's in the ninety three bomb blast was a wigtail.
My first reaction to the media because that trial was
connecting the Orthodoor jail, Yes, jail, it must be over
by two thousand and six or seven trial. So my
first reaction was that I'm today happy because I am
(15:18):
now out of the orthodogin.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That was my erection.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So twelve years I was going and attending the court proceeding,
I was marginaling the evidence in the court. Or what
kind of evidence did you have in nineteen nineteen Nie,
We have the approar evidence.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Firstly, yes, with two aqs who had visited, who had
gone to the Pakistan, who are taking the training and
handling the sophisticated reapon like AK forty seven rifle. Then
we have the other eyewitnesses who had actually seen I
witness actually was seen that particular accuse had come. He
parked the scooter, cooter, taxi motor car and after immediately
(15:57):
after that carmel asast. So this type of chain of
circumands then pallastic expert opinion. Then we have the other
chain of circumstances connecting liqu with that try.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
And while Pakistan used some of our own people in
our country, that evidence of Pakistan's involvement was clear as
they that time.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, in fact it was a sponsor by the ISA people,
I must say now, and you had names of Si people.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
We had no names.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You don't have the name for both three persons are
not known to these Our police had tried to introgate them,
but they were not me and I believe them they
really they were not Ma. Their names must be knowing
to Tiger.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Memn yes or Tiger.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Because they're the ones they are shielded them in Pakistan
and help them build a master.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
The people who had gone to the Pakistan that way,
they are not very hardened criminals. Yes, they have been instigated,
They were provoke and from their headcore.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Subsequently, Sir Mumbai has repeatedly been struck two thousand and
six trained blasts, two hundred people were killed, twenty six
eleven after nineteen ninety three. Was that, in your appreciation,
the worst terror attack that we faced at the hands
of pakistan state sponsored apparatus you're talking about two thousand
(17:24):
and eight, yes, twenty six eleven Mumba.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, we had a strong evidence. That is the reason
as to why I club all these cases. This is
there a different attack in different places Cst Railway station, Yes, Hotel,
Taj Hotel, Overiye Kama Hospital, Merriman house. Then will only
chow party then our own maes died and these.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Are the places.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
And I was told at that time now Casab had
attack only CST Railways station and Tama Hospital.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Correct. Correct. I was told that only that case to
be tried against the Casaba and not other cases. I objected.
I said, why can I tell you who told you this?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
So that I don't want to die. I don't want
to make the capital unnecessary. But let me tell you
very frankly that the person who told me he was
holding a very key.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Position in the government administratively or politically in both.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Sense, in both sense, so that personal idea, that what
in the use in connecting the connecting all these cases together?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I told him, and like, no, we have to club
all these cases because it was a single criminal conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And somebody told you so already very powerful in the
government tried to tell you that try us up the only.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You say, you are a very smart guy. I don't
want to make a capital and you and the tribe.
But let me delivery fairly. So that that person was
telling me, if Bombler's case has taken failures, if you'll
club all other.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Cases to with this case, this case will again rack
for number one. I told him no, even if it
will be there. So we had to club all these cases.
These are not the separate that these are in pursuit
of the criminal conspiracy hatch outside.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
India on the sile, on the soil of any country.
That was my intention. Then in spite of his.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Advice, I told the Commissioner of Police Movement, no, we
had to have a single church. Yes, Hassan Maria Maria
was there and we've had a single church ship. So
say conspiracy was hatch in Pakistan. Criminal conspiracy cannot be divided.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
This is number one.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Number second reason was that our main charge was waging
Warian government.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Who way is war?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Some pundamentaries group in the Pakistan with the system the
by side people of Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
They were involved in the government so la back by
a yes.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
And then we had the evidence when I raised this
question in Pakistan after education of Khassam okay, look why
you did not charge against the perpetos the stock unserve
that mister Gam we don't have aviaders.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You had to find out and they did.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Incidentally, that Tarik Kosa report FIA chief. His report does
have some evidence. But I'll come to Tarek Kuosa Pakistan's
Federal Investigation Agency's boss.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And that article that he wrote in ruin Pakistan's down newspaper.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I'll just come to that in a moment, but I
want to come back for the again since two thousand
and eight when the terror attack happened. Initially, when that
firing took place at kef Yopo, that's the first time
all of us heard of that that firing. I was
the anchor also and CSD Railway Station, Chavaji Terminus railway station.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
The impression was it could have been gang war.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Where were you that time? What was your impression? How
did you get associated with that case? As you were
spec special Public prospector.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I was a SPP see normally the government appoints special
public personal only for a particular case.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Correct, can seeing the.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Magnitude and the enormity of the crime correct number one. Secondly,
at the time of that terror attack twenty six, I
was in the goa. I was attending my daughter's marriage ceremony.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Okay, And I got a call in the night mister
Ningham when you are living because I was in the
head plus security correct that time? After nineteen ninety three blasts, yes, correct,
and so that's the story that he doesn't want to
share in public domain.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
The information I got from my friends in Mumbai police
when I was coming twenty six to.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Eleven case was because nineteen ninety three blasts, the evidence
had been produced in such a solid way that people
were terrorists were being convicted, and some people did not
want terrorists convicted, so they threatened to kill you. And
it said, withdraw yourself will weaken the case may maybe weakened.
And I believe you refused. Oh but here, no, that's
(22:27):
why you had said, Ali, you had read all that already.
My family is also watching you.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It is rude.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
So we'll talk about that hard thing. So my security
people ask me when you are going to land Mumbi.
I said, I'm coming tomorrow morning, okay, all right. So
I arrived in the Mumbai then beIN two three days.
I was asked by the government to apparent conduct this
case and all these things. Then why I was insisting,
(22:54):
you say, CSD Railway station is not a government property,
hotelage is not a government property. Hotel I not government
come a hospital not but.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No Central Railway, Celtral railway station but not the state.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Correct the angle of in the government.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Okay, now you see if I would have separated all
these cases, how I could have been established weveging Morgan
government opinion. So not only that during these days the
attackers were interacting with their handlers in Pakistan in Karaate,
(23:40):
they has set up one control room. And when our
agencies had intercepted both calls, then we found the calls
were coming.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Emerging from dial Core double zero one, that is US
Core correct double ziero one. So our people that shock
the maddening quarry with the counterpart agency in US.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Then they confirmed that they had they were calling from
UP voice over internet call and the Karachi the call
original call was originating from UP to US and then
we were getting the call.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
We intercepted all conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Then I told our people, look, we had to produce
these phebis in the court of law. And accordingly we
produced it and on the basis of that material, I
successfully brought the charge of Beijing war agains the.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Government of India.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
This is not the only attack simple attack on Mumbai,
but this is a war against the government of India.
And for the first time in the history of India,
Supreme Court has accepted that this is attack on Mumbai
is not a simple attack, but it's a Beijing war.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Against the government Offridia.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I'm remain I'm I'm telling you what I could
not do in ninety three blast case, but in two
thousand and eight case, I have successfully proved that charge.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yes, and I'm surprised. You know, as an aside, I
was covering twenty six.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
You know, whether it was at the Taj or at
the Nariman House or at the Obroy or at Shivaji terminus.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You know, these terrorists were striking and killing people at will.
At will. They were shooting and killing people.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
In indiscriminate firing and from Taj when we were reporting
outside the Taj, they even hurled a grenade outside.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
And I mean fortunately I was staying nearby that hotel
only right in the hotel I was staying because I
know how is that? Yes, sically, I used to come
from Jalga right right, So Amkasavan. Thank God for Shiit
Tu Karamble, Thank God this nation them a great aways
(26:03):
ajmel Amasa had a fake identity card if I remember.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
All belonging to Hindu name, all Hindu Ni all ten
surprising how they have played planning all these identity cards.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Where is the Hindu name?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
College is particular, so I told my investigating agency, but
we have to examine the concern college. I produce the
principle of the concern college and asking whether Palana Palana
students was playing in your college.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
He said, no, sir, this is our attendance register. This
is your registration book. So we produced.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We removed that possibility I was anticipating in supposed tomorrow
Pakistan will take a stand. They were having the identity card,
They were having the red thread which they have surrounded
on the outer risks there so showing that they were
the Hindu and not the Milk clave. So we have
removed all these doubts amazing probable and the possible attack
(27:00):
of the defense team or any tip. And the most
important thing we have conducted this style in the open court.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, we allowed the media.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
The government during that time the government was of the
opinions we should not allow the media.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I said no. Let the media should know foreign media,
Indian media all will have women present in the court.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
They witnessed the incident and played the very different different
dramas in the court. You also did play one drama
when when you said, it's called Brianni Hilary mahra it
both historic story, historically the facts.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Sail or the last.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Post company si Maha my mother rather.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Or story the Puri charm jan.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Shu Ca he Jo blocks right a Bailey by oh
is it m M M mich to God section Catri
to Bailey the miss direction. Then all excuse the recupery.
(28:42):
Ha I secured your recupery. They were my ninety he said,
two thousy thirteen MMBI hotel, met her Friday night when
missy his wife or my man I used to call
(29:05):
me ba.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
My mec believe a pining both interesting mull but really
no Baptist liking.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Liking.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You have approach to the wrong track. Now you're going
to so far form that this is called the realization
of your mistake. And if I could realize, yes I
had this good good qualification, but unfortunately I adopt a
wrong path and now I will be convicted. This repentance
(29:59):
is to be a rose in his mind.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
My toe rakent like you saw him Shavan behind k
(30:24):
k Hi Mederica, but not.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or when you have Queenie by Pakistan. It's a super.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
N what he was talking then I explained in the
old episode what I was talking to you in the
open port, this is it happened.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
That was mathmatic person. He was a very good shooter.
But and in the sophisticated weaponels because music up channel
the logo.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Benji but only breaking the s is weeping, was remembering
his sister.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Mister Ningham has his question and then he realized he
was remembering his sister.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's just a bigging and other.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
People were carrying the channel panel of debate. This is
the failure of the government. He could not be the
main for petals because the scapeboard. He was brain washed
and et cetera. Then he campaign correct, human active stock,
(31:50):
so you should agency whose time you will be Vans or.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Bank or pick daily briefing that barn so j Verdica briefing.
They would go answer. Then media started asking me question, mister,
(32:22):
what is your first take?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I was weeping. I was remaining his sister and he
was remembering weeping because of you. They were accusing me.
You opened the topic and except accept and he said
it's your escape board. It's a government failure. You could
not bring the real people.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Man. I would just look all the side and they
said Marji waking.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
You should should panel journal but yeah, they would give
Coker when I said, bullet come, but don't be any
money play bullet many they can have a political leaders
and look, don't be any here.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What does court made? This issue was raised. His lawyer
has raised this question saying that is my have never
asked for He asked to mister Nikam how this could happen.
J you can make it inquiry with the CASA, whether
(33:24):
he likes it or not, whether you ask did not reply.
I mean such a many who he can he and
our culture says once person has gone is not in
the world. We should not speak bad about the kia.
Joe as Narova mahabarat kiyagar gurud to you? Is your
(34:01):
saying maraga like in januarya Insan.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Christian are a podcast can chak review, Hey, Hey, jivan
Ka chak review he Agan Pakistanka involvement Chai gharame Katha
Joe tash tyren evidence Pakistan involved. This is a very
important question which you had raised because when I had
(34:33):
been to Islambat, we're discussing with the their Home Ministry official.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
They said that where is evidence that our people was
a state participan active participant in this crime. We had
no evidence.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I told him that you had to find out because
KASA has consisted on the basis of the Kasaf concession.
We are a lazy that you had to find out
that they said no, no mission, Cup.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
We can't do that. Our commission came back reput in
the comment.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Then I've read plea bargain agreement which worked between David
Hedley and US comment.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
US has agreed that he will not be saying to
Gallows if he gives his confession and discloses everything in Briturn,
he would not transfer to India, India or Pakistan or Sir.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Botch and Chicago Federal vote room with trial cover room
my commanding position.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
NEI you have present? I was present there, Sir Chicago,
David Coleman.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Or Voluk prosecutor Joe Federal prosecutors there, Chicago Federal Court
six jam trial.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
To David Coleman Headley. Wahi Americans.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
We bought AJEEBSA accused number A bika yeah a b C.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So what happened? Okay? Other government strong rhee.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Government politicians strong will rahe so we can take many
important decisions the matter. I'm talking from the legal says,
I'm not politically talking. I have a good experience about this.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
When I read that David hidley' splee bargain agreement, then
I thought, okay, I must use this to bring down
Pakistan and to expose Pakistan in the group. So I
told Krishta police during that time different dial there. Look,
(37:04):
we will tend, will examine this David Hidley as a witness.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And will take his evidence. Will tend we'll pardon him
and will take INDs. Their contention was David Hidley is
one of the q's in the terror attack of twenty
sixth member. He had visited Mombay before the terror attack
and even after the terror attack.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
He took the photographs of the targeted places. He sent
to the share with the uh less character. Dava, how
can we examine as a witness.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
That was the ring day.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I told him say, in any case, he's not going
to come to us. In any case us, he's not
going to center us in any case. That pleave argument
agreement has a legal wetage.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
What is the point in bringing him?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Alohney, he won't come, He said, no, no, no, mister,
this is something we don't we can't accept.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I was really helpless. Then I thought what to do.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Immediately I called the Chief Minister during that time, mister
deven Rechiefronvis was the chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
He gave me an appointment. I met him in the
night at his ACI official residence.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I explained him. I told him he now in English,
there's a problem. Set a tip to catch a Thingamasha. Yeah,
he was really hungry.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yes, he liked that idea. He said that what help
you do you require? Then I came to Delhi. I
made the mister nest essay, mister dobulsap and explaining. He said,
all right, if you want that, I'm ready to give.
He fixed my apartment will be I come about Underset
from Washington. I went there myself, when the Joint Commissioner Police,
(39:01):
mister Tilton.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Kerney, we both went there. Then I made their deputy
Attorney general. When US people as usual never asking why
do you want to examine David? What is the point
see double agent car rule.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
We will go to Chuck.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'm going to examine how may if you won't give
us allow us to examine it. There is a cause
that we ask for his death penalty. Oh so the
American nationals had lost their lives. Biz Gareth, No, we'll
ask for the death penalty to him. In US also
(39:42):
will point out all but there are no we have done.
We have no objection.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
But for what purpose we want?
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So we have to examine. We never disclosed that we
are we want to use it. What is the main intension,
et cetera. This is a real story, I'm telling you.
Then ultimately they agreed. Then through we have examined David,
and not only that, dourog he gave a sensitive revelation
disclosing the eyes I connection.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
With less people. Emilta, you pushed the devide.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
See immediately after the attack Pakistan government at the instance
of US. That attracted Hati Sage and j Q Rahman
Lucky House Arizona data.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
David really pushed Tai Bacha that Lashkar operative replied him, Drama, he.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Was quote sure. Then I asked him, who's the David.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
This is a record movement quote doctor Jason. The foreign
minister was that time foreign secretary. We send the whole
evidence to mister or foreign secretary who.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Sent to the Pakistan. Then Pakistan kept Pakistan. I never lived.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You were also in touch with mister Douger half A
Saidakila when the dossiers were given, No, no, no, not
directly okay, because they claimed that none of that evidence
was good enough to prosecute him in court of law.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think that Pakistan didn't reply. Pakistan was wadi that
was see what was the avidience? What was the condition
of dvid and he will give evidence? They should have
taken that evidence.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Correct, We have fundished the prime of his You also
asked for voice sample of half A.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Saide our agencies have our agencies Our agencies.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Wanted because he was there in that control room. No,
he was not in that country. He was not there.
Speaker 4 (41:45):
No mother persons were control room. One of the Indian
persons was in the country. Yes, it's a prosecution. The
prosecution which hind I remember that case.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
His name is Jindal Abu Jindal. Absolutely, what's stellar memories?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Sir?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So there was evidence because if I remember Tarik Kosa's
investigation in Pakistan, Joe koke that empty cartridges that were
found in Mumbai, Yes, were they were matched with the
empty cartridges that were found in Tata, in Synde, wahakan
proment and in Wahak.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And there were the printing endorsement also and Arjas hand
grenade sixty nine which were locked correct during the terror
during the attack on Bumbai on trails March that were
manufactured in arjis And.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And these were apparently Polish grenades or some such. We
have made a lessons having house people also correct. They
gave license to Pakistan too, Manufat and Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I read that entire judge. Yes, and you know since
I was pursuing that case. So what else did David
Coleman Hedley reveal.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Because he'd met half his side, he'd also met Ilias
KASHMIRI I.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Believe, yes, he made ja email commander, not that I
was happy. I was.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Then he gave the email correspondence. He gave the mobile
numbers of.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
The ISI people with their designations lepren colonel correct. Correct.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So that was involvement of Pakistan's is SI in twenty
six eleven. But Pakistan never took action against half his
saide what.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Not.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
And we don't know the trial whether what has happened
about that trial. They arrested some petty people.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Correct, like Sergia for the being the Financa. No, they
are not arrested. Also, Okay, and that trial is in
the camera.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
We don't know what has happened there and been convicted acquitted,
We don't know they were informost So.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
There was this since I covered twenty six eleven and
i'd also covered the but Hand Court Uh terror attack.
Did they did the pakistanis tell you you did not
permit us to come to Mumbai to investigators that they
told us they told they said that. In fact, we
asked for the joint investigation. Why what is the purpose
(44:16):
the attack took place in Mumbai? Nine terrorists well neutralized
only one live terrorist. You strive between the Mumbi What
type of investigations.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Do you want? But they use that as an excuse
and that they were trying to avoid to prosecute the
real propert. Did you find it odd sir that.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
You know there was this bogie of Hindu terror that
was spread in our country and ten Pakistani terrorists come.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
They all have Hindu names.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
They all have fake identity cards like if I remember correctly,
Off and an identity card which said beneath Jadhari or
something something.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You know, if I remember the name correctly, Uh and
Uh from Bangalore.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes, we have examined the Bangalo principle, also studying in
some we need children. So you know, political leaders in
India or a certain ecosystem in India was spreading this
thing about Hindu terror. Malagau blast. They said, Hindu terror.
And I believe, I mean just verys Sad has been
(45:22):
acquitted and and others have been acquitted two thousand and
six Malagau blast. They said, when terrorists had been arrested,
they led them off and said Hindu terror. Some Jhata
blast they said, Hindu terror, and then ten Pakistani terrorists
come with Hindu names. What is your reading of that situation?
All the ISS staty entering this is complete Pakistanis strategy
(45:48):
adopted by some of their political party in India and
especially I have no hesitation to say, and especially in
the Malaga blast case.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
What has happened? No, but why would why would some
people in India a doc Pakistan's ISI strategy?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
You please ask this question to those politicians who have
developed this theory unnecessary without any valid reason. Because even
in samjhatayah Un and US both sanctioned are If Kasmanio flash.
(46:28):
They said, he's the financier. Some people were arrested. Absolutely,
but they were let off and this boogie of Hindu
terror This.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Is I don't know why the political party in our
country is playing sincerity game.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Were ten Pakistani terrorists?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Comes?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
They have all Hindu names? Yes, they all have kala?
Who interrogated Headley about the kalav?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Also, I didn't improgate Headley as such, but I was
introgeting in the port through you only right, yes about
the Headley how he came, what is relation with Tawana
except okay?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So when I was in the Chicago Code, this question
of the sacred thread or that kalava cropped up, and
when the FBI asked him, he said he had picked
it up from the Syde All right, this is David
Readley has said like. And I was there in vote
when he said, you know when when we did a
story on India today, we did a story that he
(47:30):
bought kalava from Sydevani Temple. He wanted to target Sidevan Temple.
He also wanted to target DYCE in Delhi. Then he said,
instead of you're terrorists killing themselves trying to kill one
brigade commander in the l OC, target nd CN Delhi
and kill fifteen twenty.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Brigadiers in one go. That is how his evil mind works.
And Rana was with him. You are so interrogated. No,
I didn't even target. No, you didn't okay, But now
that he is in India, he will be okay.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Now, I want to move forward to this entire your
appreciation of nineteen ninety three blast, then two thousand and
six trained again two hundred people had unfortunately died in this.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And then twenty six eleven.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
But Pakistan continued to bleed us even subsequently, whether it's
Patan Court or pull Obama or Pehelgam. What is your
overall appreciation on India's war on terror, Sir? Since you've
dealt with it from its mason stages Punjab Terra. You
handled a case in Mumba nineteen ninety one if I
remember the year, Yes, that is the Karistan Command of
(48:41):
Khalistan Kam and you've got a conviction in that, yes,
which was very difficult, mad thing. But t was a
hardcore terrorist from Panya and he blasted some local train
years in the Divaris season. So I prosecuted him and
I conducted trial in the Nasi court in Marasta and
(49:03):
he was convicted theron there so why have terrorists and
Pakistan through these terrorists, whether it's Khalistani terrorists or Lashkari
Taiba terrorists or the so called Indian Muchai think terrace
targeted Mumbai repeatedly and the trains of Mumbai is it
targeting lifelie.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Mumbai is the financial very big central economics center for
the whole country.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
And if Mumbai's it is rocked, the whole country will
be rough. That is an idea Number one.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Number two reasons according to me that Mumbai is a
mixed population and secondly they wanted to create a ripped
communal communal division. That is the reason as to why
they wanted to do some of these activities. But now
I think it's is not Mumbai.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
After the terror attack of twenty six number our government
has taken a lot of precautions and now will happen.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Because after twenty six eleven they attacked German bakery, we
had fatalities, then the attacks a very bazar once again.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
You know, I have conducted that gette of India Away
of India is a theme bomb last year two thousand
and three, No.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Eleven, ninety, twenty thirteen or regular and thirty.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
So which means from nineteen ninety three till twenty twenty
five when Pehelgan happened again, they singled out Hindus to
kill so that there could be a communal divide. So
in Pakistan's mind, if you were to read, Pakistan wants
to ensure.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
There is a Hindu Muslim right in our country.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Absolutely correct, But unfortunately Muslim community in India they don't understand.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
This is the whole reason.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
This has seen right from nineteen ninety three, how Muslim
community being provoked by pakistan people.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
That is the reason.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Then they provoc they instigate on the ground of religion,
on the ground of the other things.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
And all these things.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Tell me, Sir, in your appreciation, and since you dealt
with nineteen ninety three and Daudebrahim still lives in Pakistan,
Tiger women still lives in Pakistan, can they ever be
prosecuted in your appreciation or whart Synically, as long as the.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
ISI is very strong in Pakistan, it's very difficult that
Pakistan we can expect anything from Pakistan. See virtually Pakistan
army is ruling the Pakistan. Pakistan is the Kokla, the
common man in Pakistan. He has some affection towards India
excluding Panjabi Pakistan. I'm telling you I had been along
(51:51):
with my other members of the official dedication.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
We pour were there.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
We had visited Pakistan market. Also, the common man has
a good feeling of.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Pakistan about India. But so far as the Panjabi slip
community is concerned from they hate us. They hate us.
We never hit so just see the difference. But they
hate us. How do you come to that conclusion that
they hate us? Why do you see that? Why do
(52:21):
you feel the.
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Actual Cassab and Hindis other people boys who had come
from Pakistan lived from the Punjab. Basically they were not
fluent in Hindi and Panjabi extent. Thirdly, they of course
they were brain washed, no doubt. And our people have
tried to remove that misconception so from the mind of Casabo.
(52:42):
So but this can be read because Cassab has ultimately
accepted he gave the confession that the reason.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
So they're systematically brainwashed. Systematically that is their main capital
to Pakistan Kajo or cricket week Hello. In the film banalop.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Apkak appreciation a section of a film industry and cook
he evil plane Reki.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Or in to interrogate question wik, what is your n
personally intret Yes, in the quote I haven't trogated him.
You are right in code having trogeated witnesses. So and
I have seen the investigation peoples, I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
By Bollywood. David Coleman ham We Scooby examined. Scooby on
the examining say as Bi Hamanniki, David really looks like
(54:14):
sam My Americans.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
One person, in fact, he had asked him.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Many They had sent one email to Lescar Operaduce saying
that if his parana man is to para close, how
can we use it? And he was directed by Lesker Operatu.
My god, with that matter stopped, that matter stopped killer wise,
(55:03):
that person was very keen to vote to him.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
My god. There are so many things, but I don't
want to divorce so many things on camera because see
certain things that not to be disclosed and diverge. David
Colvin Hedley kasif is hero was in touch with just
a few people.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Parts of India, Mahuma. David Colvin Hedley, parts of India, Mahuma,
Quick Kamithini top both Sleeper.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
That is the job of the investigating agency in the
CID and IB and raw people, both.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Sleepers, but now everybody is scared.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
I'm telling you our law is deterrent, and fortunately our
Prime Minister is very stick in taking action against such people,
and especially in the government also state governmentals.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
They're very strict nowadays. So I'm happy you're happy. Yes,
I'm very happy. You know we have only reported in
these cases you have prosecuted this.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Let's make tell you very frankly, without diverging the name
of the case and the name I send one later
note to our Union Home minister. Mister he immediately took
the cognizance and immediately he set right that. So I
(56:34):
am very happy to say on the camera this is
the prompt action and why why are that in the
interest of country? And immediately he took the cognis I
have the wise the bad experience of other souls, of
which I don't want to connect Jesse.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I mean I am He's like, I don't like to
do that.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
See, I'm really I'm here as a un advocate, not
as a politician. True, true, as I've known you as yes,
present the good things and for the reason that others
should be also encouraged in the interest of our country.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
See I'm looking at him very from a different angle.
My Indians whom mira de hm her body You see
my SCE practice on the criminals signed a number of years.
(57:51):
Body language is then I can understand no is that's.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
NATO body language Saya And I say this repeatedly sha
or paka Pakistani.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Interrogation ki Pakistani arna Hindu. Not only that this is
a good thing that you opened this topy I I
would like to share the copy. It is not only that.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
One big politician of Congress when I was contesting election,
no recently I was asked to contest the election.
Speaker 1 (58:53):
I love the elections by movie Central, that one senior
congress leader. What he said, mister, would you only come
this cue says kick Conte Asa inspector.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Are usually gonna malon t would you only can like
Chuba key is usually come this Decryama host of jar
big auto t k.
Speaker 3 (59:33):
Ride prop. So we have the evidence, ballastic expert. I
bitness is everything. But in kind of that, these politicians
would like to play such aty game.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
I need to go to release r SS retired police officer.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
If that is America Pakistani Intercept module FAA investigation.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
And yet they're saying to k.
Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
A B I can lebot a B A agent A
quote makes them in can see a BI agent D
came to Mumbai and they gave the evidence. Our officer
told me we too, we will take the evidence from
videoing Milan. No, US people also must understand CATCHCD. Then
(01:00:40):
two agents came up from a BI the depots for
U I P not only one vie O I P
and GPS destroy. They retrieved the data from Karachi to
Mumbai and correct.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Correct. Crystals had talk with so many big people, so
many big people money but to be some thing you
don't ask me, but I'm telling you, Joe Pakistani.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Bay some people we have the intercept in that conversation.
Also not the avay with the things.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
But some body log in India were in touch with
the ten pakistanis not really touch.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Let me tell you very clearly, they were not in touch.
They were doing some threatening and to the other people
threatening echo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
If I if I remember correctly, I think when this
case was one for them and I was also there,
they wanted to be released.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
No, they didn't wanted to be released, but they had
put some demand also. But Nevern. But let me tell
you very clearly, only these ten peoples came from Pakistan.
There was not any support from the internal side. And
they were in touch with the foreign on v in yes. No, yes,
(01:02:14):
they talked with foreign envy. They were asking some demands
and all these things. Let on the conictor. They talked
with media people. They talk to media people, people, they
talk with people. Are the record, Yes see.
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Our people agency people were had the reservation that to
produce the cwees.
Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
They said that we should not.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I said no, we had to produce it because we
had to steady the charge of Beijing war again the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Government of damaging hey cap Yes, Pakistani Hamara, Hamara.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Or Hamara.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
How will we fight with Pakistan states once at if
we are so divided as a country.
Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Now, we will fight it under the leadership of Prime
Minister one hundred person. I'm sure about that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But aprist Is operations in the only way to deal
with Pakistan up to ninety three clear Up Nate twenty
six eleven, De klea Apne Khalistan Terror, de klea Apnate
two thousand and six blasts with those Kleia plus there
have been so many other cases where they've waged war
against the country. They've they've hit us in our temples,
(01:03:31):
They've hit us in our economic centers. They've hit our schools,
they've hit the malls, they've hit our marketplaces. Abhamara des
si file min shelta abamara the goalies, hey Jaba Medica
operations in.
Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Surgical strike iska just to tell them, just to warn
them or they Yeah, I'm limited Geneva Convention Article one
sixty for no other country in the bird has raised
(01:04:14):
any question on the Finder attack. Yeah, we are now
very soon. We are very firm in taking the act. Yeah,
nea a Chap, Are you aware of what was happening?
(01:04:40):
I don't know what is your appreciation.
Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I can't say no because I was not a party
to the dialogue. I was concerned with the legal proceed
but product governes with like an operations, operations in the
must surgical style.
Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Yes, and also absolutely, I mean I I personally think that.
Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
And since I've covered Pakistan state on said radio, Islamish
Terra and the Kargio War of nineteen eighty nine to
Pakistan or Brad that is, I'm of that considered opinion. Sir.
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
You know people may like it, people may not.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
But I am of the considered opinion that Pakistan does
not understand among Kiyasha. We have tried, We've repeatedly tried
trick trick Pakistan Shan that the fundamental is radical.
Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Or fundamental is to Pakistan itself has to take a
strong action Pakistan Jab tie.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
The Pakistan.
Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Preemptive strike is the easily operations Indura is always on,
absolutely absolutely cinema fundamental army, public school attack Army.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Pakistan or the collateral damages, the Kaman to Pakistan power.
Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Pakistan is a very beach country, is depending upon so
many countries big. The financial action Tasport had taken action.
Again the financial transport lead the funds in their favor.
Pakistan Army mutilized to Humluk legally quick case milk, thank
you legally con So Bromos does the work for you.
(01:07:21):
I will let that be the last word on this
part of the show. But brilliant talking to you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Thank you very much for joining me on this special podcast,
and thank you for being a part of that war
on Pakistan state sponsored terror in.
Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Ports of law. Legally defeating them was extremely important. Thank
you very much. So that is all I have for
you on this part of the Chuck Review podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Nicam Special Public
Prosecutor at that point of time, Raja MP right now
and someone who's legally evidence based.
Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Action on Pakistan Terra.
Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Whther it's nineteen ninety three or twenty six eleven Mumbai
terror attacks. Let's hope in future we're able to destroy
terror at source before it reaches our borders.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Many thanks for watching and listening.
Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Would request you to subscribe to the India Today podcast
to watch us and constantly join us.
Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Thank you very much, Navascar and Jad
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com