September 4, 2025 • 49 mins
In this week’s edition of Chakravyuh, host Gaurav Sawant speaks to Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kiren Rijiju about the recently concluded Monsoon Session of Parliament. Rijiju attributes 83 hours of wasted Parliamentary time - costing taxpayers millions - to the Opposition, specifically the Congress and Rahul Gandhi. He highlights the passage of numerous bills, including anti-corruption laws and the 130th Constitutional Amendment, while refuting claims of a "police state" and the BJP acting as a "washing machine" for corrupt politicians. Rijiju criticises Rahul Gandhi's leadership and the opposition's avoidance of debate, encouraging voters to dismiss ineffective MPs.
Join us for a hard-hitting conversation on India’s past, present, and future.
Join us for a hard-hitting conversation on India’s past, present, and future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is India Today podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to a special edition of the Chuck
Review podcast. I'm God a seventh between the government and
the opposition. The battle lines are clearly drawn and caught
in midst of this Chuck Review is Kiran Rijiju, the
Parliamentary Affairs Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He joins us on this special broadcast. Sir, welcome, Thank
you sir.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
In twenty twelve, the then Parliamentary Affairs Minister had said
it costs about seventy five lacks an hour to run
the parliament.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
This time, about eighty three hours were wasted in running
that parliament.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So, going by twenty twelve figures about sixty two crore
rupees were wasted in the Luksabah and sixty krore wasted in.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
The Raja Sabah.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So who's responsible for this wastage of the taxpayers money?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
The figure which you have given is only as for
the monetary counting in terms of how much money is
spent for the man power, for the equipments, for the
space and so many things. But what about the time
of the members. The most precious is the time we
(01:24):
stage of the time of the members and the staff
of the parliament that cannot be assessed. The quantum cannot
be drawn from the monetary figure. Imagine the Parliament of India,
the representatives of every parliamentary constituencis and the Council of
(01:46):
States being put under ransom by few of the greedy
political leaders is extremely unfortunate. And also people are what
so not functioning the parliament as but the desire of
the people of the country. It's a sin committed by
(02:10):
these people. When there are issues to be raised in
the parliament, you can raise it, you can protest it.
That is why I have stated many times there is
difference between opposition and obstruction. Opposing the government or criticizing
the government is the right of the members. But to
(02:32):
stall the parliament, to obstruct the functioning of the parliament itself,
it amounts to dereliction from the duty. So I will
not merely court what the then Parliamentar Affairs Minister said.
My point is much bigger. When the temple of democracy
(02:52):
doesn't function, it causes huge damage to the democracy itself.
The quality of India is dependent on how our House
of Legislatures function because parliaments and assemblies are the melting
(03:13):
point where all different ideological background. People come together and
they discuss and debate for the nation. So their cost
is extremely high.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So why aren't these discussions and debates happening in parliament.
It's the job, the opposition says, it's the job of
the government to ensure parliament functions. And you are the
Parliamentary Affairs Minister, so you are the our June in.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
This Chuck review. How will you ensure the parliament functions?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Monsoon session has I'm sure you're equally disappointed with the record.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And if I may just look at the numbers.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Productivity in Louksaba thirty one percent, productivity in Rajasabad just
barely higher the thirty nine percent one hundred and twenty
hours available only thirty seven hours discussions held.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Technically speaking, the functioning of the parliament as per the
timetable set, it is a reflection of how much the
Parliament has run through the session. But from the point
of view of productivity, there is a slight difference from
(04:27):
the projection which you have shown and what actually it is.
From my point of view and from the government's point
of view, this monsoon session of the Parliament has been
by far the most productive session Why because the primary
function of the Parliament is to pass the bills and
(04:47):
also to discuss on important issues. First of all, the
operations Sindure was deliberated in both Lok Saba and Rajazabah,
longest ever debate on a subject in the bo the
houses is a record breaking session. Secondly, the numbers of
bills pass. It's very difficult to recall in the pass.
(05:12):
So many bills are passed in one single parliament session.
In this session alone, the most consequential and reformative law
against corruption has been put and also sent to the
Joint Parliamentary Committee. So this is a very important one
(05:34):
where constitutions amendment is required, where the sitting Chief Ministers,
Union ministers, even Prime Minister will have to come under
the scrutiny of the law. Thereby, if you do corruption,
you'll have to go to jail. If you go to jail,
you have to leave your post and position. This is
(05:54):
such an important matter for every Indian. And then of
course there are important bills like online gaming. In today's time,
it is so critical to ensure that the youth of
India do not get themselves caught in the gambling. You know,
there's a difference between skill and gambling, so it has
(06:17):
been clearly demarketed. So this bill has been passed. The
tax Sation Bill, the biggest ever tax reforms it is
passed in this session. And then National Sports Governance Bill
and the shipping bills, the marching Bills, the reservation of
Tribals in the Assembly in Goa, and then so many
(06:41):
important bills like Minds and Minerals Amendment Bill was passed.
The Iit i Am Bill was passed. So these are
some of the most critical bills passed in this parliament session.
The only thing which I'm not happy is the discussion
did not take.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
That's the point I was soy to.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It takes two minutes to pass the will thirty two
minutes on that crucial space.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That is why from the nation's point of view, from
government's point of view, our intention is to bring good
bills for the nation and it has been done, so
tell me what it is. But I feel sorry for
the opposition MPs, especially the young talented MPs. When we
came to the Parliament as a young MP, yes, we
(07:28):
got to learn so many things because there used to
be healthy debates and discussion. Opposition ruling. You know, there
was a commendery in terms of exchange of words. You know,
you use banter against each other. There were, you know,
at times tense but at times light moments in the parliament.
(07:49):
But now the leader of Opposition doesn't want discussion.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So why has this acrimony crept into the parliamentary discourse?
The manner in which and I'll come two hundred and
thirtyth Amendment Bill in just to more because again the
two very diverse points of view between the Government and
the opposition. I'll come to that in just a moment.
But you know you said, yes, it's a record the
number of bills that have been passed, but the debate.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
That should happen on those bills.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
If the taxation Bill is being passed in two minutes discussion,
if the sports will or the antidoping Bill is being
passed with thirty four minutes discussion in.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Parliament, are we just ramming them through parliament?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That due process, that deliberation, the meeting of the minds
of our honorable lawmakers is not happening.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
The opposition party is not interested. But some of the
oppostion MPs, especially the young MPs, they have come to me,
and they express their willingness to participate in the discussion.
But then they are top leaders. Especially the Congress leader
Raul Gandhi, he's not interested in any debates and discussion because.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But the Congress says, he's almost never permitted to speak.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
He doesn't know how to actually perform as a leader
of a position on the floor of the house. We
have seen great leader of oppositions in the past, Rahul
Gandhi from the day one. If you just go through
his speeches, he just abuses. He doesn't make speech. Actually,
(09:19):
there should be some statesmanship in the performance or in
the words of the leader of opposition.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Are Usingani is not a statesman.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
The problem is number one, Rahul Gandhi is not mature. Secondly,
his party also have some good numbers of speakers, but
then if they're allowed to speak, they will overshadow Rahul Gandhi.
The Commress party is a family run party, so they
want to promote only one person. So that is why
(09:53):
my feeling is that if debates take place now will
be exposed because he can't speak on subjects. He comes
with some notes, he comes with some kind of agenda,
and he just keep on hammering on those points. He
can't just make up his own mind on his own
(10:15):
so there is the biggest problem. And then secondly the
amount of effort which I have done. See first three
weeks we did not pass any bills. We kept on
pleading the opposition party please come and participate in the debate.
(10:38):
There are revolutionary bills coming up, important discussions, even the
discussion on fellistetting Captain Suwanzushukla who went to the space
I station that also was not allowed by the opposition parties.
Our party and some of them spoke, but did the
(10:59):
discussion didn't conclude. So you're disappointed, extremely disappointed because the
first three weeks I kept on pleading with the opposition
leaders that please participate in the bills. So that is
why I request everybody to follow the parliamentary proceedings. Every
morning we come out with the business business is listed.
(11:23):
Every day, two bills in Lok Saba, two bills in
Raja Saba are listed. Besides the question answer session, the
bills are listed and every day we had to postpone
the bills to the next day. How long we should
keep on postponing? Shouldn't the government functioning? Parliament functioning?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
So the opposition wants a discussion, let's say on.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
The special intensive revision of the votal list of Behalve.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
That is, I have already told specifically that if there
is an issue related to electoral reforms, then Parliament can
definitely discuss because the Law Industry is the nodal ministry
for election reforms and anything related to Election Commission of India.
But when it comes to the functioning of the Election Commission,
(12:12):
the administrative issues of the Election Commission of India, how
can we discuss in the parliament? For example, if there
is some mechanism within the Supreme Court of India, is
Supreme Court of India is deciding to take certain steps
to reform some functioning within the Supreme Court of India,
how can we discuss in the Parliament? Who will answer
(12:34):
on behalf of them? In the same manner, the Election
Commission of India had conducted special intensive review of the
electoral roles. Now this is an administrative efforts by the
Election Commission of India, not on the advice of the
Government of India. It was their act on their own
just to make the electoral roles robust. Before we heard
(12:57):
elections and why it has been going on since independence.
This is not the first time. So if we take
up who will come and defend Can election Commission member,
chief Election Commissioner or any from the Election Commission come
to the Parliament and defend themselves. No, they're not allowed
to do that. So we are very clear that the
(13:19):
constitutional authorities are to be protected. Let them function on
their own because they are autonomous people. If there's a government, departments, organizations,
then minister will respond, But ministers should respond to the
member's query if it is permitted under some rules, conduct
of business, rules of the procedure. The Parliament functions with
(13:43):
certain norms, certain rules, conventions. Doesn't believe in any conventions,
any rules. See First of all, you have to understand
one thing. We are a democratic nation. All the political
parties will have to be them democratic. For example, Bartizanta
party is fully democratic in its conduct. Our leaders are
(14:08):
emerged through performance to their capacity with experience. But Congress
party is a family run party. So a family run
party cannot be democratic because anybody can be leader of
a potion. For example, Malkar Karg is the leader of
(14:30):
a position in Dratzaba, but he can't do anything. He
has to ask ra Gandhi, here's no power. What kind
of democracy we are seeing? It is extremely painful to
see that a person like Malic Is as a senior person,
has to publicly say that he is there because of
(14:51):
Gandhi family. He is there because of Rahul Gandhi and
Sonya Gandhi. What a diminishing statement. If that is the
position of the Congress part to president and leader of opposition,
what would be the faith of ordinary Congress workers. Rau
Gandhi insults the Congress party leaders, senior leaders. He told
(15:11):
he told the paper of the cabinet decision. Then I
mean you can imagine what is the what is the
condition of the other Commress leaders.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But as Parliamentary Affairs minister, have you reached out to
Raoul Gandhi?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have met Raoul Gandhi, I have met I have
met many Congress leaders and I have met all the
senior leaders of the oppostion party.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
What have you told them? What was your conversation with them?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
The conversation is always I'm, you know, as a Parliamentary
Affairs minister, seeking their cooperation and asking them to let
the parliament function.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And what is their response?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They're not interested at all. In fact, let me tell
one thing. I was deeply pain when the Captain Suwanzu
Suklas the very station discussion was to happen. Some Comngress
MPs said that what is big thing going to space?
Now you can pay and you can go. What is
this big achievement? Can imagine this is the attitude of
(16:15):
the Comngress leaders.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
But when it comes to critical issues of national importance,
like our entire parliament came together, all MPs came together,
when delegations had to be sent overseas, everyone came together
and it happened. So why doesn't that unity not function
on the floor of the House in national interest?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Or because the opposition says.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
We are doing what you know late Sushmas or aund
when they were leader of opposition and look however, they
also said disruption is also part of democracy.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Disruption. Let me be very clear and categorical. We will
not allow a person party to put parliament under ransom.
They cannot withhold the functioning of the parliament. We waited
for three weeks, they didn't listen to us. That is
(17:13):
where we had to pass the bills because those revolutionary
bills are in the interest of the nation. For the
future of India. This group of opposition leader cannot curtel
the future prospects of India. So we are very clear
from the national point of view, national perspective, we did
(17:37):
what we have to do. They can't stop us from
passing the bills. But it is them who has lost out.
Remember God, if parliament doesn't function, it is the opposition
parties who lose it the most. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Absolutely, they should put the government on the match. They
don't get in parliament.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Now look at this, many of the opposition MP's they
don't get chance to ask questions to the ministers. Ministers
come prepared, but they don't get a chance to answer.
And the officers are okay, you know, the officers are
not under you know, intense pressure if parliament doesn't function.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
True, but what do these young MP's come and tell you.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
The young MPs, many of them are extremely disappointed.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Including from these political parties.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yes, mainly the opposition MP's. They tell me that they
want to question the government. They have to raise many issues,
They have to seek advice of the government and also
answer many of the points which they desire to raise
in the parliament. They don't get chance. What will they
answer to the people of their constituencies. I would make
(18:50):
a very general appeal to everyone, not only ruling or opposition,
for everyone. Those parties or those MPs particularly who are
not interested to take part in the debates and discussion
in the parliament, don't vote for them. We have to
(19:14):
tell the people of India, don't vote for an MP
candidate who doesn't take part in discussions and debates in
the parliament. Please vote for an active and performing person
as MP.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
That's a big statement you're making.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So you are saying that you want the electorate to
vote for an MP who will ask questions, participate in
debates and not disruptors.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Disruptors because there is.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
A young member of Parliament from Dada and Nagar Hawili
no or I think it's from and dew d In
you in u MP he spoke. I did an interview
with him. He said, cutter salaries if they don't perform. Now,
is that feasible? Is that possible? There are some experts
who say curtail their period in parliament for the time.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It can be done if there is a consensus. In principle.
I believe that if you don't work in parliament, why
should you draw your salary absolutely taxpayer. In principle, I
should take money only if I have worked. The oppostion
MPs don't work and they are drawing their salary the
air Ta DA everything, flight, free ticket, accommodation, everything they're getting,
(20:28):
and they don't work in the parliament and they don't
let others perform in the parliament. So the best way
is the electorate people of India must teach them a lesson,
especially those parties and those MPs who do not work
in the parliament, who do not raise the issues of
(20:51):
the people in the Parliament, who do not participate in
the critical important bills and regulations and other important matters.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
You know, that's a very big statement you're making. I
won't now come specifically to a point you raised, which
you said is a national interest one hundred and thirtieth
Amendment Bill that even the Prime Minister of India, chief
ministers ministers, whether they're in the state or the center,
in case they're in jail for thirty consecutive days, on
the thirty first day, they should either step down or
(21:22):
automatically be devard from office.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
The very important points, sir, important.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
The opposition says you're making a police state where an
inspector will be more powerful than the Prime Minister of India.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
How can they make such important points with such kind
of frivolous comments see Advantage. You remember lad bather sastrategy.
Remember those were the days. Now we don't get to
see it, but in BJP we follow it very strictly.
(21:59):
When I'm charge, he was sent a summon by the
CBA before arrested. He resigned as Minister Advantage. In the
Jane diary he clearly said that he will not remain
even member of Parliament until his name is cleared from
that allegation or that diary case. So if there is
(22:24):
a shameless chief Praister who goes to jail but who
refuses to resign, don't you think there should be a
proper rule for that. There should be a proper law
for that.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
The Daily High Court seem to indicate that.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Still still some people are so shameless they don't understand
their you know, responsibilities. You know you have to abdicate
your post once it's untenable. For example, there is a
there is a political party who is you know totally,
(23:04):
you know, you know clear, you know the system within
the political party which decides that corrupt people or attended
people will not be given high positions, then that party
can cleanse within themselves. In BJP, our system is very
(23:25):
clear a corrupt person is not protected nor he holds
any position. But in some of the parties.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
The opposition, on the other hand, says that anybody who
joins the b JP investigation against that leader comes to
us standstill the washing machine of the These.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Are political allegations. You need not, you know, respond to
each and every kind of these frivolous allegations. What I'm
saying is, in principle we have very clear should or
should not there be a strong law against option, especially
those who sit in the high constitutional position.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion that that
principle must prevail. However, you know, when I interviewed Manishtari,
member of Parliament from Chendiger recently, his point was, any
individual is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Politics not in politics.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
In politics, So then tell me when there is a
court ordered investigation against a chief minister, any minister, does
he resign or not? Why why the issue comes up
that till he is in a position he will influence
the investigation. So where is the question of innocence still
(24:48):
proven guilty? Let us not mix up this thing. Anybody
who the person who conducted the interview with or anybody
maybe don't mix up the thing has to be extremely
above any suspicion. So that's why I'm saying the law
(25:09):
is very clear. If you're jailed for more than thirty days,
you must quit or otherwise there should be a law.
You will have to abdicate your position be enforced.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Can should morality come from within an individual?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So if somebody doesn't resign, morality doesn't prevail on him,
what can you do. You have to have a strong law.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But if the opposition says that, and you've heard it
more than anybody else, that the opposition says, CBI, Income
Tax Department, Enforcement Directorate, all these agencies are a handmaiden
of the BJP.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
These were examples of the Congress time.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
But now they're saying that handmaidens of the VJP.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
You tell me who's yes.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
But they're saying that cage part remains a caged part.
The government has changed.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Agencies have to be strong if you want to enforce
some discipline in the in the functioning of the investigating
agencies they have. They must have teeth. No, if they
can't take action, what is the point of having those agencies.
If you have to crack down on the corrupt practices
(26:24):
of the people, then the agencies will work. It doesn't
matter which government, which party, But the thing is in BJP,
the internal mechanism is so strong that you can do corruption.
In the last eleven years of our government under Modigi,
has any minister taken any bribe, taken any benefits or
(26:47):
involving any scams or scandals.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No, Congress.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
See, you have to understand what you are just referring
to agencies only the Congress time, all the scams did
it stumble out of the agencies. It was by social
media or some documents or by media. See, let us
not mix up the thing. Congress time, they were no
(27:17):
social media only we had conventional media people. And of
course some of the social media. Social media came after
twenty thirteen in a big way, not not before that.
You have to be very clear on the timeline. I
joined social media in twenty fourteen, I was not there.
(27:40):
There were no.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Scam looked.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Twitter or that was twenty twelve. Later the real social
came after twenty thirteen. You have to be extremely you know,
clear about the differences those days, less electronic adgets, less
(28:06):
digital era, less chance of getting exposed. Yet every day
there used to be a corruption, some scam, some scandals,
something will tumble out from the Congress, government, some minister
will involve in some cases. Now eleven years in full
(28:27):
glare of the digital world, in the full glare and
full you know, engulfed by the social media, not a
single minister is involved in any corruption. Why do you
think so. It's because our party has a strong system
of ensuring self discipline and Prime Minister from the day
(28:51):
one has clearly stated that corruption will be not tolerated
in our government. I will tell you one more thing.
On the first day when I also joined the government,
from the day one, when Prime Mister took the oath
the first day, he said, our government is devoted to
(29:13):
the poor people. We will not take holiday. No minister
will involve in any favor, any corruption, nothing doing. He
himself leads from the front. That is why in this
proposed one hundred and thirtyeth Constant Amendment, Initially the recommendation
(29:34):
was Prime Minister's office should be kept away from.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
This provision like it wasn't the thirty nine term.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
But Prime Minister was very clear he said, why should
there be special protection and special status to the prime minister.
Prime minister is also a citizen of this country. Prime
minister cannot be above the law. That is the stand
of Prime Mister Boggi.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, so the Prime Minister stands is commendable.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
However, the opposition says, no agency will have the guts
to look at the Prime Minister's office.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
They will just go after the opposition states.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You know, whether it's a party A or a Party
B or a party see of the opposition, they will
never go after government ministers or not.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
This Congress chief what Congress government has been doing for
the last sixty seventy years and today so many governments
are opposition ruled states. So should I tell them that
the Chief Minister of Telangana, chief Minister of the Karnataka,
(30:39):
Chief is of West Bengal, Chief Minster of Punjab, Chief
Minister of Himachal protest, Should you know, let the police
get out of the government control the special investigation team
as cities and not should get away from the government
what are they talking about. There's something called governance. Government
(30:59):
is that has re ponsible government is responsible for everything.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
But say if a chief minister does not get bailed,
for example, for thirty days, you've been low Minister of
India and I believe the youngest low minister of India.
If a chief minister or a minister does not get
bail in thirty days, so he'll go to jail and
he'll lose his chief ministership.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
If he gets a clean chit from the court, he
can get back his chair his chief minister. It's not
your private property chief minister or minister position. It's just
a public post. These are for the people who will
(31:44):
serve as long as they're in position and then when
the time is up, somebody else will come. This is
a continuous process. Don't think that this minister will posts
are reserved for a family for a person. We are
not Congress party and they come of India will not
function like Congress family party.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But sir, it's not the Congress. It is the Amadbi
party for example. Or shift saying now Takri faction, they
are saying they will not even be a part of
the JPC, including others. I believe when the TMC has
indicated or said they will not be a part of
this JPC.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
If they don't believe in the parliamentary democracy and parliamentary procedure,
then I have no authority to beat them up. I
can only request if they don't come, for what what
can we do? We will proceed ahead with the race
of the members. We are in majority, we are in government.
(32:41):
We can put our future into the hands of these people.
They've ruined the country for so long years. Tell me
for last sixty years plus Congress and these people had
ruled this country. Why they met in India such a
corrup nation. Why they have converted India into such a
(33:05):
fragile economic situation? Why was India poor? Why India's per
capita income was one of the poorest. It is only
after twenty fourteen the income has raised to a level
where today we can proudly say that we are fastest
growing economy. We are now four point two trillion economy.
We are the fastest growing economy amongst the large big countries.
(33:30):
And also India is today a confident nation. Nobody can
dictate us. So those days the Congress time, we knew
I mean like the people abroad used to think that
the Indians are only coming out to seek jobs. And
also you know India is a land of snake charmers.
(33:55):
You know, this kind of image was being created and
what was the image of India those days.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
No, but we have one way, are facing headwinds even today.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
But I want to you know the point that you
raised that we are a very strong democracy.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
How would you respond to some of these.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
International agencies that say we are an elected autocracy or
some saying that if we even within our country that
democracy is dying and freedom of even political leaders is curtailed.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Or you know Rahu Gandhi for example, when he says
I'm not permitted to speak.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Are we an elected autocracy in your view? Your parliamentary face,
Minister of India.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
That is why I am saying, Rahu Gandhi will never
understand democracy because he thinks that he is a god
sent person to rule this country. He may belong to
a family, but he should forget that he is a
citizen of India. Now the whole world appreciates Indian democracy.
(34:56):
We have the largest democracy in the world and sent time.
Also there are democratic practices in our societies. So today also,
if somebody wants to criticize India, then criticize on point
or policy. Don't target India's Supreme Court, don't target India's Parliament,
(35:20):
don't target the important institutions of India. Talk to some
you know people about issues specific. Okay, I'm ready to
talk about any issues about policies of the government. But
if somebody attacks India itself, I have to defend my country.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So that is why do you think are we being
attacked even from outside? More ways than one?
Speaker 4 (35:46):
There are some elements. Yes, they are attacking India and
parties like Congress are fueling them. So that is why
if you see whenever Al Gandhi travels abroad, if you
carefully see who are the people hosting him, sitting his
left and right, you will easily come to know who
(36:09):
are these people and what is the agenda of Rahul Gandhi?
You will easily clearly come to know.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So that's a very big statement. He's leader of opposition
and looks about That.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Is why otherwise why would I be speaking about.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
No, But tell me this, So who are the people
he's meeting? In your view?
Speaker 4 (36:26):
I would like to request you to check the photographs,
to check the event managers. Who are those people who
gives space to Rahul Gandhi today? Go up? Let's come
to the point. If Rahul Gandhi was not son of
Rajiv Gandhi, what would be his status. He is being
(36:53):
propped up by his party and there is a group
in our country. First they will make him a hero,
and then they will expand his image artificial image. Then
they will amplify his points of views, his speeches and
(37:14):
they will make him hero. So this is a group
of people who are doing it.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
But sir, he's got the Congress party from just about
forty odd seats to ninety nine seas.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Are you saying three elections they could not reach hundred
seats and you think that he is a successful leader
in other parties? Supposing JP under somebody's leadership, if j
fails to get one hundred seats in three elections, do
you think he will still be leader? What is so
special about him?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Effort, amount of effort he puts in like Barajodo, effort,
issues that he raises.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
He has been see he has been launched again and again.
But the issue is he will stay for ten days
in India, then twenty days abroad. Don't think the things
that people are fools.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Where does he go abroad?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
I'm not there to follow him and check his activities.
He must be going for fun or he must be
going for vacations. I'm not bothered. I'm just saying that
for three consecutive blocks of elections, the party could not
even reach one hundred seats the Grand Old Party Congress.
(38:28):
Once upon a time, the star wars of the Congress leaders.
Today you just see the faces of the Congress leaders
which people have taken over Congress Party. It's such a
sorry state of affairs. Just imagine forty to fifty, sixty,
seventy years back, eighty hundred years back to Congress leaders
(38:52):
and today, just imagine the present Congress leaders which people
have taken over. Congress Party leader Rau Gandhi. Oh my god,
I can't even comprehend that someday Congress would fall into
the hand of such a leader.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
But tell me this, sir, who are the good leaders
who are not allowed to speak as Parliamentary Affairs Minister?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
What is it that you have concluded.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I don't decide on anything, it's the rules which decide.
They have abused the speaker. Also, speaker also will have
to follow the rules. You will speak when it is
your turn. If you want to speak in somebody's turn,
you will not be allowed. Every member has a right
(39:39):
and privilege. All the members of the Parliament are equal.
The parliament floor is for everybody. That doesn't mean that
everybody will speak at the same time. The person whose
mic is on is authorized by the speaker, he will speak.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So as Parliamentary Affairs Minister, what's your what's we your
biggest challenge?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
My biggest challenge is to make the opposition party realize
that what they are doing is detrimental to the democracy,
to the constitution of India and for the future of India.
I think there's toughest challenge. It's I can make people
(40:24):
understand about so many things, but it's very difficult to
make the opposition realize their mistakes. Remember, people of India
are wise. They will never vote for a party, they
will never bring them to the government because they know
(40:46):
that they are working against the interests of India itself.
And A Gandhi has already made a statement that he's
fighting against the Indian state. So there are intelligent people
in our country. Who arender stand You know all this
agenda of Raul Gandhi and his team, people are not
(41:06):
going to give these people free rope to climb up.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
People are smart in the winter session, what will be
your challenge?
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Because I will appeal again.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You can only appeal. Is there something else that you
can reach out to? You know it's you. It's a
give and take. So what can you give?
Speaker 4 (41:27):
There is a simple way of making Congress party realize
and understand their responsibility. That is, their leader should be responsible.
If their leader is irresponsible the way he's behaving now,
(41:48):
the party is helpless. That is why the grund Old
Party is reduced this position.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
But the Grand Old Party or the India Block was
able to stop the beach achieving. You know, the Prime
Minister's target was Chargeapar. You were stopped at those of
challenge two hundred and forty.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
And what our alliance is in majority alliances in every
party of NDA, every member of NDA has projected Modigi
is on leader in prime. Every vote for NDA is
vote for more the only.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So so do you see this as a challenge. Do
you see the Congress or the Opposition block uniting? You know,
Bihar elections. Would that be the biggest you have?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
The biggest you are You are understanding the whole issue
in a reverse manner. These political parties Muslim League on
one side, Senna on other side, Congress Party on one side,
Mamtaveners and other side, and the Left Party in behind.
(42:53):
They are forced to come together because people of India
are supporting so behind Modiji. What forced them to come together?
You have to understand that because of the mass appeal
of Modiji, because of his popularity, because of his white
(43:16):
mass acceptance amongst the people, they are forced to come together.
Did you ever imagine that the Muslim League in Kerala
will sit together with without hag How do you see
you realize that Mamta Energy will sit with the Communist
Party in India blog in the India Alliance. Whatever they
(43:39):
were forced to do that they are saying that Modigi
is not a strong leader. If Modiji is not a
strong leader, who forced them to come together against their ideology?
What made them come together? Modiji is the only leader
who made all all these people fighting each other but
(44:04):
again coming together for lunch and dinner only to speak
against Modiji.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
In fact, even in the latest India today mood of
the Nation survey, he remains the most popular prime minister
or even the most likely prime minister if elections were
held today.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
He stipped to be prime.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Minister again more than fifty percent of India respondents.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
It is not fifty Modigi or US or our party.
It is the destiny which demands Modiji to be the
leader of this country. India deserves to be in the
top of the table in the Committee of Nations. The
people of India desire that Modiji should be the leader
(44:48):
of our country. The opposition people are just crying fouls
out of nothing. They are except you know in your
public speech. Internally they have accepted that they can't defeat
(45:08):
Modiji because people of India are behind Modiji.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And so the next election we are lucky.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
India is fortunate to have a prime minister like Nandamdiji. Otherwise,
in twenty fourteen, our economy was almost collapsed, scams everywhere.
India was amongst the fragile economies of the world. And
the things reversed after twenty fourteen with the you know,
(45:43):
prudent fiscal policy, efficient economic management.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
But do you see challenges rising now given whatever is
happening don't talk.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
About the issues with particular country. I'm talking about our
own strength. So it is people of India who want
Modiji to remain as the leader of our country. It
is it is not the opposition who will decide the
faith of this country. It is the people of India
(46:12):
whole decide the faith of our country.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
So no seventy five year age, you know, bar.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
I'm nobody to talk about that. People of India will
decide yep.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Just because in the India today mood of the nation
very clearly he is head and shoulders above everybody else.
There is I think the closest after Prime Minister Nardi
in the India to day mood of the nation is
Rahul Gandi a twenty five percent and he is fifty
six percent.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Ra Gandhi don't considered him as a you know leader
by his performance or by his efficiency. He's a He
is leader by Congress parties family product. He is leader
of Congress Party because he is son of Rajiv Gandhi.
(46:59):
But he and that doesn't matter. They see in democracy
somebody has to be in the opposition. It cannot be
that whole country will have one party. India has a
multi party democracy. So if there are opposition parties which
are permitted by the Constitution of India, there will be
(47:21):
some opposition always. That doesn't mean that he has become
the leader of the country. He will have because our
party also has many opposition you know, groups who are MTBJP.
So they will by by default they will vote for
(47:41):
Rahul Gandhi. Not because Rahul Gandhi is efficient leader or
Rahul Gandhi is very capable person, but because somebody has
to be there in the opposition party. So this some
of the people who are these grantled elements who are
not happy with the growth of India will all us
support people like rab Gandhi. So this is basically a
(48:06):
factual thing which will prevail all the time.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So what is your ka you know, for the winter session?
If this was like thirty one percent work done? Though,
as you rightly pointed out, the largest large number of
bills were passed in luks of a better debate, more
bills can we reach that eighty percent deficientser one hundred
percent efficiency in winter session?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
In the winter session, I think I'll renew my approach
with the opposition parties and I will tell them I'll
try to convince them that they have lost out in
the Monson's session means the responsible citizens of our country
feel that Congress Party and opposition parties have miserably failed.
(48:55):
So I will try to although it may be a
futile exercise to make them realize their states, but I
will still force them. Even if they don't listen to me,
I will still tell them that you are losing out.
You are lucky enough to be at least member of Parliament,
even though not in the government, but you are losing
(49:17):
out the space which is available to the opposition parties
because if they keep on disturbing the parliamentary proceedings, then
we will still force to pass the bill and still
country will run faster and better, and they will lose
out because they have not even utilized the space available
to them as opposition members.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Can Reid you, Parliamentaryfface Minister of India for joining me
here on this Chuck Review special podcast. Many thanks, sir,
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
This is India Today Podcasts
This is India Today podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to a special edition of the Chuck
Review podcast. I'm God a seventh between the government and
the opposition. The battle lines are clearly drawn and caught
in midst of this Chuck Review is Kiran Rijiju, the
Parliamentary Affairs Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He joins us on this special broadcast. Sir, welcome, Thank
you sir.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
In twenty twelve, the then Parliamentary Affairs Minister had said
it costs about seventy five lacks an hour to run
the parliament.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
This time, about eighty three hours were wasted in running
that parliament.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So, going by twenty twelve figures about sixty two crore
rupees were wasted in the Luksabah and sixty krore wasted in.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
The Raja Sabah.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So who's responsible for this wastage of the taxpayers money?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
The figure which you have given is only as for
the monetary counting in terms of how much money is
spent for the man power, for the equipments, for the
space and so many things. But what about the time
of the members. The most precious is the time we
(01:24):
stage of the time of the members and the staff
of the parliament that cannot be assessed. The quantum cannot
be drawn from the monetary figure. Imagine the Parliament of India,
the representatives of every parliamentary constituencis and the Council of
(01:46):
States being put under ransom by few of the greedy
political leaders is extremely unfortunate. And also people are what
so not functioning the parliament as but the desire of
the people of the country. It's a sin committed by
(02:10):
these people. When there are issues to be raised in
the parliament, you can raise it, you can protest it.
That is why I have stated many times there is
difference between opposition and obstruction. Opposing the government or criticizing
the government is the right of the members. But to
(02:32):
stall the parliament, to obstruct the functioning of the parliament itself,
it amounts to dereliction from the duty. So I will
not merely court what the then Parliamentar Affairs Minister said.
My point is much bigger. When the temple of democracy
(02:52):
doesn't function, it causes huge damage to the democracy itself.
The quality of India is dependent on how our House
of Legislatures function because parliaments and assemblies are the melting
(03:13):
point where all different ideological background. People come together and
they discuss and debate for the nation. So their cost
is extremely high.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So why aren't these discussions and debates happening in parliament.
It's the job, the opposition says, it's the job of
the government to ensure parliament functions. And you are the
Parliamentary Affairs Minister, so you are the our June in.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
This Chuck review. How will you ensure the parliament functions?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Monsoon session has I'm sure you're equally disappointed with the record.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And if I may just look at the numbers.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Productivity in Louksaba thirty one percent, productivity in Rajasabad just
barely higher the thirty nine percent one hundred and twenty
hours available only thirty seven hours discussions held.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Technically speaking, the functioning of the parliament as per the
timetable set, it is a reflection of how much the
Parliament has run through the session. But from the point
of view of productivity, there is a slight difference from
(04:27):
the projection which you have shown and what actually it is.
From my point of view and from the government's point
of view, this monsoon session of the Parliament has been
by far the most productive session Why because the primary
function of the Parliament is to pass the bills and
(04:47):
also to discuss on important issues. First of all, the
operations Sindure was deliberated in both Lok Saba and Rajazabah,
longest ever debate on a subject in the bo the
houses is a record breaking session. Secondly, the numbers of
bills pass. It's very difficult to recall in the pass.
(05:12):
So many bills are passed in one single parliament session.
In this session alone, the most consequential and reformative law
against corruption has been put and also sent to the
Joint Parliamentary Committee. So this is a very important one
(05:34):
where constitutions amendment is required, where the sitting Chief Ministers,
Union ministers, even Prime Minister will have to come under
the scrutiny of the law. Thereby, if you do corruption,
you'll have to go to jail. If you go to jail,
you have to leave your post and position. This is
(05:54):
such an important matter for every Indian. And then of
course there are important bills like online gaming. In today's time,
it is so critical to ensure that the youth of
India do not get themselves caught in the gambling. You know,
there's a difference between skill and gambling, so it has
(06:17):
been clearly demarketed. So this bill has been passed. The
tax Sation Bill, the biggest ever tax reforms it is
passed in this session. And then National Sports Governance Bill
and the shipping bills, the marching Bills, the reservation of
Tribals in the Assembly in Goa, and then so many
(06:41):
important bills like Minds and Minerals Amendment Bill was passed.
The Iit i Am Bill was passed. So these are
some of the most critical bills passed in this parliament session.
The only thing which I'm not happy is the discussion
did not take.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
That's the point I was soy to.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It takes two minutes to pass the will thirty two
minutes on that crucial space.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That is why from the nation's point of view, from
government's point of view, our intention is to bring good
bills for the nation and it has been done, so
tell me what it is. But I feel sorry for
the opposition MPs, especially the young talented MPs. When we
came to the Parliament as a young MP, yes, we
(07:28):
got to learn so many things because there used to
be healthy debates and discussion. Opposition ruling. You know, there
was a commendery in terms of exchange of words. You know,
you use banter against each other. There were, you know,
at times tense but at times light moments in the parliament.
(07:49):
But now the leader of Opposition doesn't want discussion.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So why has this acrimony crept into the parliamentary discourse?
The manner in which and I'll come two hundred and
thirtyth Amendment Bill in just to more because again the
two very diverse points of view between the Government and
the opposition. I'll come to that in just a moment.
But you know you said, yes, it's a record the
number of bills that have been passed, but the debate.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
That should happen on those bills.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
If the taxation Bill is being passed in two minutes discussion,
if the sports will or the antidoping Bill is being
passed with thirty four minutes discussion in.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Parliament, are we just ramming them through parliament?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That due process, that deliberation, the meeting of the minds
of our honorable lawmakers is not happening.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
The opposition party is not interested. But some of the
oppostion MPs, especially the young MPs, they have come to me,
and they express their willingness to participate in the discussion.
But then they are top leaders. Especially the Congress leader
Raul Gandhi, he's not interested in any debates and discussion because.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But the Congress says, he's almost never permitted to speak.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
He doesn't know how to actually perform as a leader
of a position on the floor of the house. We
have seen great leader of oppositions in the past, Rahul
Gandhi from the day one. If you just go through
his speeches, he just abuses. He doesn't make speech. Actually,
(09:19):
there should be some statesmanship in the performance or in
the words of the leader of opposition.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Are Usingani is not a statesman.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
The problem is number one, Rahul Gandhi is not mature. Secondly,
his party also have some good numbers of speakers, but
then if they're allowed to speak, they will overshadow Rahul Gandhi.
The Commress party is a family run party, so they
want to promote only one person. So that is why
(09:53):
my feeling is that if debates take place now will
be exposed because he can't speak on subjects. He comes
with some notes, he comes with some kind of agenda,
and he just keep on hammering on those points. He
can't just make up his own mind on his own
(10:15):
so there is the biggest problem. And then secondly the
amount of effort which I have done. See first three
weeks we did not pass any bills. We kept on
pleading the opposition party please come and participate in the debate.
(10:38):
There are revolutionary bills coming up, important discussions, even the
discussion on fellistetting Captain Suwanzushukla who went to the space
I station that also was not allowed by the opposition parties.
Our party and some of them spoke, but did the
(10:59):
discussion didn't conclude. So you're disappointed, extremely disappointed because the
first three weeks I kept on pleading with the opposition
leaders that please participate in the bills. So that is
why I request everybody to follow the parliamentary proceedings. Every
morning we come out with the business business is listed.
(11:23):
Every day, two bills in Lok Saba, two bills in
Raja Saba are listed. Besides the question answer session, the
bills are listed and every day we had to postpone
the bills to the next day. How long we should
keep on postponing? Shouldn't the government functioning? Parliament functioning?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
So the opposition wants a discussion, let's say on.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
The special intensive revision of the votal list of Behalve.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
That is, I have already told specifically that if there
is an issue related to electoral reforms, then Parliament can
definitely discuss because the Law Industry is the nodal ministry
for election reforms and anything related to Election Commission of India.
But when it comes to the functioning of the Election Commission,
(12:12):
the administrative issues of the Election Commission of India, how
can we discuss in the parliament? For example, if there
is some mechanism within the Supreme Court of India, is
Supreme Court of India is deciding to take certain steps
to reform some functioning within the Supreme Court of India,
how can we discuss in the Parliament? Who will answer
(12:34):
on behalf of them? In the same manner, the Election
Commission of India had conducted special intensive review of the
electoral roles. Now this is an administrative efforts by the
Election Commission of India, not on the advice of the
Government of India. It was their act on their own
just to make the electoral roles robust. Before we heard
(12:57):
elections and why it has been going on since independence.
This is not the first time. So if we take
up who will come and defend Can election Commission member,
chief Election Commissioner or any from the Election Commission come
to the Parliament and defend themselves. No, they're not allowed
to do that. So we are very clear that the
(13:19):
constitutional authorities are to be protected. Let them function on
their own because they are autonomous people. If there's a government, departments, organizations,
then minister will respond, But ministers should respond to the
member's query if it is permitted under some rules, conduct
of business, rules of the procedure. The Parliament functions with
(13:43):
certain norms, certain rules, conventions. Doesn't believe in any conventions,
any rules. See First of all, you have to understand
one thing. We are a democratic nation. All the political
parties will have to be them democratic. For example, Bartizanta
party is fully democratic in its conduct. Our leaders are
(14:08):
emerged through performance to their capacity with experience. But Congress
party is a family run party. So a family run
party cannot be democratic because anybody can be leader of
a potion. For example, Malkar Karg is the leader of
(14:30):
a position in Dratzaba, but he can't do anything. He
has to ask ra Gandhi, here's no power. What kind
of democracy we are seeing? It is extremely painful to
see that a person like Malic Is as a senior person,
has to publicly say that he is there because of
(14:51):
Gandhi family. He is there because of Rahul Gandhi and
Sonya Gandhi. What a diminishing statement. If that is the
position of the Congress part to president and leader of opposition,
what would be the faith of ordinary Congress workers. Rau
Gandhi insults the Congress party leaders, senior leaders. He told
(15:11):
he told the paper of the cabinet decision. Then I
mean you can imagine what is the what is the
condition of the other Commress leaders.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But as Parliamentary Affairs minister, have you reached out to
Raoul Gandhi?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have met Raoul Gandhi, I have met I have
met many Congress leaders and I have met all the
senior leaders of the oppostion party.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
What have you told them? What was your conversation with them?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
The conversation is always I'm, you know, as a Parliamentary
Affairs minister, seeking their cooperation and asking them to let
the parliament function.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And what is their response?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They're not interested at all. In fact, let me tell
one thing. I was deeply pain when the Captain Suwanzu
Suklas the very station discussion was to happen. Some Comngress
MPs said that what is big thing going to space?
Now you can pay and you can go. What is
this big achievement? Can imagine this is the attitude of
(16:15):
the Comngress leaders.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
But when it comes to critical issues of national importance,
like our entire parliament came together, all MPs came together,
when delegations had to be sent overseas, everyone came together
and it happened. So why doesn't that unity not function
on the floor of the House in national interest?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Or because the opposition says.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
We are doing what you know late Sushmas or aund
when they were leader of opposition and look however, they
also said disruption is also part of democracy.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Disruption. Let me be very clear and categorical. We will
not allow a person party to put parliament under ransom.
They cannot withhold the functioning of the parliament. We waited
for three weeks, they didn't listen to us. That is
(17:13):
where we had to pass the bills because those revolutionary
bills are in the interest of the nation. For the
future of India. This group of opposition leader cannot curtel
the future prospects of India. So we are very clear
from the national point of view, national perspective, we did
(17:37):
what we have to do. They can't stop us from
passing the bills. But it is them who has lost out.
Remember God, if parliament doesn't function, it is the opposition
parties who lose it the most. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Absolutely, they should put the government on the match. They
don't get in parliament.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Now look at this, many of the opposition MP's they
don't get chance to ask questions to the ministers. Ministers
come prepared, but they don't get a chance to answer.
And the officers are okay, you know, the officers are
not under you know, intense pressure if parliament doesn't function.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
True, but what do these young MP's come and tell you.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
The young MPs, many of them are extremely disappointed.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Including from these political parties.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yes, mainly the opposition MP's. They tell me that they
want to question the government. They have to raise many issues,
They have to seek advice of the government and also
answer many of the points which they desire to raise
in the parliament. They don't get chance. What will they
answer to the people of their constituencies. I would make
(18:50):
a very general appeal to everyone, not only ruling or opposition,
for everyone. Those parties or those MPs particularly who are
not interested to take part in the debates and discussion
in the parliament, don't vote for them. We have to
(19:14):
tell the people of India, don't vote for an MP
candidate who doesn't take part in discussions and debates in
the parliament. Please vote for an active and performing person
as MP.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
That's a big statement you're making.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So you are saying that you want the electorate to
vote for an MP who will ask questions, participate in
debates and not disruptors.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Disruptors because there is.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
A young member of Parliament from Dada and Nagar Hawili
no or I think it's from and dew d In
you in u MP he spoke. I did an interview
with him. He said, cutter salaries if they don't perform. Now,
is that feasible? Is that possible? There are some experts
who say curtail their period in parliament for the time.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It can be done if there is a consensus. In principle.
I believe that if you don't work in parliament, why
should you draw your salary absolutely taxpayer. In principle, I
should take money only if I have worked. The oppostion
MPs don't work and they are drawing their salary the
air Ta DA everything, flight, free ticket, accommodation, everything they're getting,
(20:28):
and they don't work in the parliament and they don't
let others perform in the parliament. So the best way
is the electorate people of India must teach them a lesson,
especially those parties and those MPs who do not work
in the parliament, who do not raise the issues of
(20:51):
the people in the Parliament, who do not participate in
the critical important bills and regulations and other important matters.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
You know, that's a very big statement you're making. I
won't now come specifically to a point you raised, which
you said is a national interest one hundred and thirtieth
Amendment Bill that even the Prime Minister of India, chief
ministers ministers, whether they're in the state or the center,
in case they're in jail for thirty consecutive days, on
the thirty first day, they should either step down or
(21:22):
automatically be devard from office.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
The very important points, sir, important.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
The opposition says you're making a police state where an
inspector will be more powerful than the Prime Minister of India.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
How can they make such important points with such kind
of frivolous comments see Advantage. You remember lad bather sastrategy.
Remember those were the days. Now we don't get to
see it, but in BJP we follow it very strictly.
(21:59):
When I'm charge, he was sent a summon by the
CBA before arrested. He resigned as Minister Advantage. In the
Jane diary he clearly said that he will not remain
even member of Parliament until his name is cleared from
that allegation or that diary case. So if there is
(22:24):
a shameless chief Praister who goes to jail but who
refuses to resign, don't you think there should be a
proper rule for that. There should be a proper law
for that.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
The Daily High Court seem to indicate that.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Still still some people are so shameless they don't understand
their you know, responsibilities. You know you have to abdicate
your post once it's untenable. For example, there is a
there is a political party who is you know totally,
(23:04):
you know, you know clear, you know the system within
the political party which decides that corrupt people or attended
people will not be given high positions, then that party
can cleanse within themselves. In BJP, our system is very
(23:25):
clear a corrupt person is not protected nor he holds
any position. But in some of the parties.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
The opposition, on the other hand, says that anybody who
joins the b JP investigation against that leader comes to
us standstill the washing machine of the These.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Are political allegations. You need not, you know, respond to
each and every kind of these frivolous allegations. What I'm
saying is, in principle we have very clear should or
should not there be a strong law against option, especially
those who sit in the high constitutional position.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion that that
principle must prevail. However, you know, when I interviewed Manishtari,
member of Parliament from Chendiger recently, his point was, any
individual is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Politics not in politics.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
In politics, So then tell me when there is a
court ordered investigation against a chief minister, any minister, does
he resign or not? Why why the issue comes up
that till he is in a position he will influence
the investigation. So where is the question of innocence still
(24:48):
proven guilty? Let us not mix up this thing. Anybody
who the person who conducted the interview with or anybody
maybe don't mix up the thing has to be extremely
above any suspicion. So that's why I'm saying the law
(25:09):
is very clear. If you're jailed for more than thirty days,
you must quit or otherwise there should be a law.
You will have to abdicate your position be enforced.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Can should morality come from within an individual?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So if somebody doesn't resign, morality doesn't prevail on him,
what can you do. You have to have a strong law.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But if the opposition says that, and you've heard it
more than anybody else, that the opposition says, CBI, Income
Tax Department, Enforcement Directorate, all these agencies are a handmaiden
of the BJP.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
These were examples of the Congress time.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
But now they're saying that handmaidens of the VJP.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
You tell me who's yes.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
But they're saying that cage part remains a caged part.
The government has changed.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Agencies have to be strong if you want to enforce
some discipline in the in the functioning of the investigating
agencies they have. They must have teeth. No, if they
can't take action, what is the point of having those agencies.
If you have to crack down on the corrupt practices
(26:24):
of the people, then the agencies will work. It doesn't
matter which government, which party, But the thing is in BJP,
the internal mechanism is so strong that you can do corruption.
In the last eleven years of our government under Modigi,
has any minister taken any bribe, taken any benefits or
(26:47):
involving any scams or scandals.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No, Congress.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
See, you have to understand what you are just referring
to agencies only the Congress time, all the scams did
it stumble out of the agencies. It was by social
media or some documents or by media. See, let us
not mix up the thing. Congress time, they were no
(27:17):
social media only we had conventional media people. And of
course some of the social media. Social media came after
twenty thirteen in a big way, not not before that.
You have to be very clear on the timeline. I
joined social media in twenty fourteen, I was not there.
(27:40):
There were no.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Scam looked.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Twitter or that was twenty twelve. Later the real social
came after twenty thirteen. You have to be extremely you know,
clear about the differences those days, less electronic adgets, less
(28:06):
digital era, less chance of getting exposed. Yet every day
there used to be a corruption, some scam, some scandals,
something will tumble out from the Congress, government, some minister
will involve in some cases. Now eleven years in full
(28:27):
glare of the digital world, in the full glare and
full you know, engulfed by the social media, not a
single minister is involved in any corruption. Why do you
think so. It's because our party has a strong system
of ensuring self discipline and Prime Minister from the day
(28:51):
one has clearly stated that corruption will be not tolerated
in our government. I will tell you one more thing.
On the first day when I also joined the government,
from the day one, when Prime Mister took the oath
the first day, he said, our government is devoted to
(29:13):
the poor people. We will not take holiday. No minister
will involve in any favor, any corruption, nothing doing. He
himself leads from the front. That is why in this
proposed one hundred and thirtyeth Constant Amendment, Initially the recommendation
(29:34):
was Prime Minister's office should be kept away from.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
This provision like it wasn't the thirty nine term.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
But Prime Minister was very clear he said, why should
there be special protection and special status to the prime minister.
Prime minister is also a citizen of this country. Prime
minister cannot be above the law. That is the stand
of Prime Mister Boggi.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, so the Prime Minister stands is commendable.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
However, the opposition says, no agency will have the guts
to look at the Prime Minister's office.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
They will just go after the opposition states.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You know, whether it's a party A or a Party
B or a party see of the opposition, they will
never go after government ministers or not.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
This Congress chief what Congress government has been doing for
the last sixty seventy years and today so many governments
are opposition ruled states. So should I tell them that
the Chief Minister of Telangana, chief Minister of the Karnataka,
(30:39):
Chief is of West Bengal, Chief Minster of Punjab, Chief
Minister of Himachal protest, Should you know, let the police
get out of the government control the special investigation team
as cities and not should get away from the government
what are they talking about. There's something called governance. Government
(30:59):
is that has re ponsible government is responsible for everything.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
But say if a chief minister does not get bailed,
for example, for thirty days, you've been low Minister of
India and I believe the youngest low minister of India.
If a chief minister or a minister does not get
bail in thirty days, so he'll go to jail and
he'll lose his chief ministership.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
If he gets a clean chit from the court, he
can get back his chair his chief minister. It's not
your private property chief minister or minister position. It's just
a public post. These are for the people who will
(31:44):
serve as long as they're in position and then when
the time is up, somebody else will come. This is
a continuous process. Don't think that this minister will posts
are reserved for a family for a person. We are
not Congress party and they come of India will not
function like Congress family party.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But sir, it's not the Congress. It is the Amadbi
party for example. Or shift saying now Takri faction, they
are saying they will not even be a part of
the JPC, including others. I believe when the TMC has
indicated or said they will not be a part of
this JPC.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
If they don't believe in the parliamentary democracy and parliamentary procedure,
then I have no authority to beat them up. I
can only request if they don't come, for what what
can we do? We will proceed ahead with the race
of the members. We are in majority, we are in government.
(32:41):
We can put our future into the hands of these people.
They've ruined the country for so long years. Tell me
for last sixty years plus Congress and these people had
ruled this country. Why they met in India such a
corrup nation. Why they have converted India into such a
(33:05):
fragile economic situation? Why was India poor? Why India's per
capita income was one of the poorest. It is only
after twenty fourteen the income has raised to a level
where today we can proudly say that we are fastest
growing economy. We are now four point two trillion economy.
We are the fastest growing economy amongst the large big countries.
(33:30):
And also India is today a confident nation. Nobody can
dictate us. So those days the Congress time, we knew
I mean like the people abroad used to think that
the Indians are only coming out to seek jobs. And
also you know India is a land of snake charmers.
(33:55):
You know, this kind of image was being created and
what was the image of India those days.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
No, but we have one way, are facing headwinds even today.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
But I want to you know the point that you
raised that we are a very strong democracy.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
How would you respond to some of these.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
International agencies that say we are an elected autocracy or
some saying that if we even within our country that
democracy is dying and freedom of even political leaders is curtailed.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Or you know Rahu Gandhi for example, when he says
I'm not permitted to speak.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Are we an elected autocracy in your view? Your parliamentary face,
Minister of India.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
That is why I am saying, Rahu Gandhi will never
understand democracy because he thinks that he is a god
sent person to rule this country. He may belong to
a family, but he should forget that he is a
citizen of India. Now the whole world appreciates Indian democracy.
(34:56):
We have the largest democracy in the world and sent time.
Also there are democratic practices in our societies. So today also,
if somebody wants to criticize India, then criticize on point
or policy. Don't target India's Supreme Court, don't target India's Parliament,
(35:20):
don't target the important institutions of India. Talk to some
you know people about issues specific. Okay, I'm ready to
talk about any issues about policies of the government. But
if somebody attacks India itself, I have to defend my country.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So that is why do you think are we being
attacked even from outside? More ways than one?
Speaker 4 (35:46):
There are some elements. Yes, they are attacking India and
parties like Congress are fueling them. So that is why
if you see whenever Al Gandhi travels abroad, if you
carefully see who are the people hosting him, sitting his
left and right, you will easily come to know who
(36:09):
are these people and what is the agenda of Rahul Gandhi?
You will easily clearly come to know.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So that's a very big statement. He's leader of opposition
and looks about That.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Is why otherwise why would I be speaking about.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
No, But tell me this, So who are the people
he's meeting? In your view?
Speaker 4 (36:26):
I would like to request you to check the photographs,
to check the event managers. Who are those people who
gives space to Rahul Gandhi today? Go up? Let's come
to the point. If Rahul Gandhi was not son of
Rajiv Gandhi, what would be his status. He is being
(36:53):
propped up by his party and there is a group
in our country. First they will make him a hero,
and then they will expand his image artificial image. Then
they will amplify his points of views, his speeches and
(37:14):
they will make him hero. So this is a group
of people who are doing it.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
But sir, he's got the Congress party from just about
forty odd seats to ninety nine seas.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Are you saying three elections they could not reach hundred
seats and you think that he is a successful leader
in other parties? Supposing JP under somebody's leadership, if j
fails to get one hundred seats in three elections, do
you think he will still be leader? What is so
special about him?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Effort, amount of effort he puts in like Barajodo, effort,
issues that he raises.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
He has been see he has been launched again and again.
But the issue is he will stay for ten days
in India, then twenty days abroad. Don't think the things
that people are fools.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Where does he go abroad?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
I'm not there to follow him and check his activities.
He must be going for fun or he must be
going for vacations. I'm not bothered. I'm just saying that
for three consecutive blocks of elections, the party could not
even reach one hundred seats the Grand Old Party Congress.
(38:28):
Once upon a time, the star wars of the Congress leaders.
Today you just see the faces of the Congress leaders
which people have taken over Congress Party. It's such a
sorry state of affairs. Just imagine forty to fifty, sixty,
seventy years back, eighty hundred years back to Congress leaders
(38:52):
and today, just imagine the present Congress leaders which people
have taken over. Congress Party leader Rau Gandhi. Oh my god,
I can't even comprehend that someday Congress would fall into
the hand of such a leader.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
But tell me this, sir, who are the good leaders
who are not allowed to speak as Parliamentary Affairs Minister?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
What is it that you have concluded.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I don't decide on anything, it's the rules which decide.
They have abused the speaker. Also, speaker also will have
to follow the rules. You will speak when it is
your turn. If you want to speak in somebody's turn,
you will not be allowed. Every member has a right
(39:39):
and privilege. All the members of the Parliament are equal.
The parliament floor is for everybody. That doesn't mean that
everybody will speak at the same time. The person whose
mic is on is authorized by the speaker, he will speak.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So as Parliamentary Affairs Minister, what's your what's we your
biggest challenge?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
My biggest challenge is to make the opposition party realize
that what they are doing is detrimental to the democracy,
to the constitution of India and for the future of India.
I think there's toughest challenge. It's I can make people
(40:24):
understand about so many things, but it's very difficult to
make the opposition realize their mistakes. Remember, people of India
are wise. They will never vote for a party, they
will never bring them to the government because they know
(40:46):
that they are working against the interests of India itself.
And A Gandhi has already made a statement that he's
fighting against the Indian state. So there are intelligent people
in our country. Who arender stand You know all this
agenda of Raul Gandhi and his team, people are not
(41:06):
going to give these people free rope to climb up.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
People are smart in the winter session, what will be
your challenge?
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Because I will appeal again.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You can only appeal. Is there something else that you
can reach out to? You know it's you. It's a
give and take. So what can you give?
Speaker 4 (41:27):
There is a simple way of making Congress party realize
and understand their responsibility. That is, their leader should be responsible.
If their leader is irresponsible the way he's behaving now,
(41:48):
the party is helpless. That is why the grund Old
Party is reduced this position.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
But the Grand Old Party or the India Block was
able to stop the beach achieving. You know, the Prime
Minister's target was Chargeapar. You were stopped at those of
challenge two hundred and forty.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
And what our alliance is in majority alliances in every
party of NDA, every member of NDA has projected Modigi
is on leader in prime. Every vote for NDA is
vote for more the only.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So so do you see this as a challenge. Do
you see the Congress or the Opposition block uniting? You know,
Bihar elections. Would that be the biggest you have?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
The biggest you are You are understanding the whole issue
in a reverse manner. These political parties Muslim League on
one side, Senna on other side, Congress Party on one side,
Mamtaveners and other side, and the Left Party in behind.
(42:53):
They are forced to come together because people of India
are supporting so behind Modiji. What forced them to come together?
You have to understand that because of the mass appeal
of Modiji, because of his popularity, because of his white
(43:16):
mass acceptance amongst the people, they are forced to come together.
Did you ever imagine that the Muslim League in Kerala
will sit together with without hag How do you see
you realize that Mamta Energy will sit with the Communist
Party in India blog in the India Alliance. Whatever they
(43:39):
were forced to do that they are saying that Modigi
is not a strong leader. If Modiji is not a
strong leader, who forced them to come together against their ideology?
What made them come together? Modiji is the only leader
who made all all these people fighting each other but
(44:04):
again coming together for lunch and dinner only to speak
against Modiji.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
In fact, even in the latest India today mood of
the Nation survey, he remains the most popular prime minister
or even the most likely prime minister if elections were
held today.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
He stipped to be prime.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Minister again more than fifty percent of India respondents.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
It is not fifty Modigi or US or our party.
It is the destiny which demands Modiji to be the
leader of this country. India deserves to be in the
top of the table in the Committee of Nations. The
people of India desire that Modiji should be the leader
(44:48):
of our country. The opposition people are just crying fouls
out of nothing. They are except you know in your
public speech. Internally they have accepted that they can't defeat
(45:08):
Modiji because people of India are behind Modiji.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And so the next election we are lucky.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
India is fortunate to have a prime minister like Nandamdiji. Otherwise,
in twenty fourteen, our economy was almost collapsed, scams everywhere.
India was amongst the fragile economies of the world. And
the things reversed after twenty fourteen with the you know,
(45:43):
prudent fiscal policy, efficient economic management.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
But do you see challenges rising now given whatever is
happening don't talk.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
About the issues with particular country. I'm talking about our
own strength. So it is people of India who want
Modiji to remain as the leader of our country. It
is it is not the opposition who will decide the
faith of this country. It is the people of India
(46:12):
whole decide the faith of our country.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
So no seventy five year age, you know, bar.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
I'm nobody to talk about that. People of India will
decide yep.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Just because in the India today mood of the nation
very clearly he is head and shoulders above everybody else.
There is I think the closest after Prime Minister Nardi
in the India to day mood of the nation is
Rahul Gandi a twenty five percent and he is fifty
six percent.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Ra Gandhi don't considered him as a you know leader
by his performance or by his efficiency. He's a He
is leader by Congress parties family product. He is leader
of Congress Party because he is son of Rajiv Gandhi.
(46:59):
But he and that doesn't matter. They see in democracy
somebody has to be in the opposition. It cannot be
that whole country will have one party. India has a
multi party democracy. So if there are opposition parties which
are permitted by the Constitution of India, there will be
(47:21):
some opposition always. That doesn't mean that he has become
the leader of the country. He will have because our
party also has many opposition you know, groups who are MTBJP.
So they will by by default they will vote for
(47:41):
Rahul Gandhi. Not because Rahul Gandhi is efficient leader or
Rahul Gandhi is very capable person, but because somebody has
to be there in the opposition party. So this some
of the people who are these grantled elements who are
not happy with the growth of India will all us
support people like rab Gandhi. So this is basically a
(48:06):
factual thing which will prevail all the time.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So what is your ka you know, for the winter session?
If this was like thirty one percent work done? Though,
as you rightly pointed out, the largest large number of
bills were passed in luks of a better debate, more
bills can we reach that eighty percent deficientser one hundred
percent efficiency in winter session?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
In the winter session, I think I'll renew my approach
with the opposition parties and I will tell them I'll
try to convince them that they have lost out in
the Monson's session means the responsible citizens of our country
feel that Congress Party and opposition parties have miserably failed.
(48:55):
So I will try to although it may be a
futile exercise to make them realize their states, but I
will still force them. Even if they don't listen to me,
I will still tell them that you are losing out.
You are lucky enough to be at least member of Parliament,
even though not in the government, but you are losing
(49:17):
out the space which is available to the opposition parties
because if they keep on disturbing the parliamentary proceedings, then
we will still force to pass the bill and still
country will run faster and better, and they will lose
out because they have not even utilized the space available
to them as opposition members.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Can Reid you, Parliamentaryfface Minister of India for joining me
here on this Chuck Review special podcast. Many thanks, sir,
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
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