August 28, 2025 • 54 mins
In this powerful episode of the Chakravyuh Podcast, host Gaurav Sawant welcomes filmmaker Vivek Agnihotri, director of The Kashmir Files, The Tashkent Files, and the upcoming The Bengal Files.
Wearing his iconic "Never Again" t-shirt, Agnihotri dives deep into what he alleges is a 1200-year history of Hindu persecution, focusing on the brutal Direct Action Day and Noakhali Genocide in Bengal.
From The Bengal Files’ controversy to censorship battles, the filmmaker explains his mission to awaken India’s youth to their history and prevent “future genocides.”
Join us for a hard-hitting conversation on India’s past, present, and future.
Wearing his iconic "Never Again" t-shirt, Agnihotri dives deep into what he alleges is a 1200-year history of Hindu persecution, focusing on the brutal Direct Action Day and Noakhali Genocide in Bengal.
From The Bengal Files’ controversy to censorship battles, the filmmaker explains his mission to awaken India’s youth to their history and prevent “future genocides.”
Join us for a hard-hitting conversation on India’s past, present, and future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is end here today podcasts never again.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
When you hear the word never again, the context usually
that you and I would think of is twenty six
eleven Mumbai terror attacks. Never again, will we let Pakistani
state sponsored radical Islamish terra bleed our country?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
But then we have been bled for a very very
long time.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And on the Chuck Review podcast today explaining why he's
wearing that never again T shirt and the context is
a very special guest I want to welcome on the
Chuck Review podcast vivek Ranjan Agniho III. Sir, welcome the
director and writer of the Bengal Files and the Tashkan Files.
(00:48):
You very you know, close on right the trilogy of
files that you've done. But sir, before we dive into
that conversation, welcome to the Chuck Review Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Explain this t shirt never again?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you, Thank you, God, thank you very much. So
this idea of never again. Actually there's a lot of
background to this, you know, Okay, let me just give
the context to this. When we are researching the Kashmir Files.
I am a very social politically aware person. I'm son
of freedom fighters, I've studied politics. But he still I
(01:20):
didn't know some one thing, which is that in the
history of humanity, the most persecuted and most enslaved society
is Hindu society. For twelve hundred years, we were persecuted
and enslaved continuously. Or joy Communist Hindi maybe beacha buls
equals sir toyejopuraka pura to Western idea have oh oppressor
(01:42):
or oppressed c They believe that majority is the oppressor
and minority is always the oppressed. Kashmir Cosilia. They perceived
that Kashmir Mah Hindus are the majorities of vailog oppress current.
But India is a very unique country. In this country,
minorities have oppressed the majority for twelve hundred years.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
When now you tell me.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Right inya kariki a generational collective consciousness ari amar memory,
muscle memory. I have noticed career Amsha malik ma bab Blo,
Saha Blodu is society am But the problem is that
(02:38):
no young person, even middle aged or old people, they
don't know that we are the most persecuted and slave
society in the world. Slavery is Niki India, Blacks Africa
black persecution who are pulling a juice baraschakerlook Google to
(03:03):
my believe. So then I said, can you ever find
a jew childhood doesn't know about the Holocaust? Can you
find a black boy or a girl who doesn't know
about slavery? Can you ever find a Japanese childhood doesn't
know about the bombing of Heroshima, Nagasaki, or a Rhondon
childhood doesn't know about Rohndon genocide, or an Armenian childhood
(03:26):
doesn't know about Armenian genocide?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Then how come we don't know about this?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And for research Calcuta boards plus antique Josua clubs, restaurants,
Dogs and Indians not allowed, Dogs use hierarchy, Mooper, Indians bamed,
dogs and Indians not right about a con collar. And
(03:51):
I said, actually, Jews and Cha never ever again, So Tomenica,
never again to genocide, never again to terrorism what happened
in Kashmi, never again to crimunal violence which we suffered,
never again to partition. And now I'm adding never again
to banning of a trailer. So Tama traileria gather. So
that's how it is. Maklivil Ow your T shirt, I've
(04:13):
especially got it for you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
You're very handsome in this. Yeah, you're so kind, You're
so kind like in Yejo Mudhah.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
There is a very serious issue that you're talking about,
and I want to I want you to shed light
on the Bengal files. So let's dive straight into Bengal files.
Apne Bengal files movie Bananikichikiki. The allegation is one you
make movies that target the opposition states or the opposition
(04:40):
leaders and why this love for Kashmir files, Tashkan files,
now Bengal files before elections in Bengal Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So allegation is always an allegation. People can allege anything,
but like the taskcan files, how does it benefit anybody?
And who is it opposing? I don't understand the the
controversy around the mysterious death of the second Prime Minister
of India, whose job is it to issue a white
paper and say heart attacks you with his family will
(05:13):
be very happy if they resolved with the concluded family
conclusion in our family pat bet.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Parent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Similarly resolving conclusion in Amla, what can you do about it? Similarly,
Bengal may society in a sacrifice subsid society in the
pain to have Bengal. Bengal was the only state in
(05:56):
which is which was divided thrice. Oh, absolutely, people know
Hindu Bengal and Muslim Bengal shi Ubino and movement Chalukya
to there to united it's not powerful to movement. Then
in nineteen forty seven, then in nineteen seventy one, it
(06:18):
was culturally divided the Bengali cultures for Islamic stata, the
or Abi Macaro, Mira Mana, I mean it's not open
to discussion for Miramana. Bengal right now is mentally and
psychologically divided and also socially divided in today's day and
of course in today's day and age. And so yeh
(06:42):
three and a half divisions or do we say great
examples and jampe it's from a massive cultural renaissance. Who
you parallel in Uska France mey Bengal for Franz caa
renaissance k remnants.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You have a Biling.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Bengalara heritage Kodia to bengalerspt there to my partition to
what is the first image that comes to your mind?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
West Pakistan Panjab, the migration that took place from West
Pakistan to our Punjab or to the rest of our
country that's.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
What everybody in India believes. That is because of Bollywood films.
But it is half truth. That's not full truth. To
crushe playground partition for the Bengal nineteen hundred and five
other Direct Tection Day or purely Hindu Geno. It was
(07:45):
a call to annihilate Hindus demographically marginally Hindu Jada, the
Directation Day to Bengal Co Laboratory, Banadiya Violinski Prime Minister,
key demography, change your Calcutta Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And I want and I want a viewers and our
listeners to this podcast to keep this in mind. Direct
Action Day, the naw Khali Nua Khali massacre.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The violence that took place.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
In our history books a para, a couple of paras,
maybe a little a page or two.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
But not more riots. Right, it wasn't a riot, serious
cure riot. Alia Sola the nineteen forty six speech here
key sixty Ram sol or Ramzanka eighteenth day and eighteenth
(08:52):
day is known for the Battle of bad Just in
Teens of Tea Teens of Tea, he said, it's the
most auspicious day or hamko Jaha key permission Alan Adia
or is then as chay. We have to finish all
(09:12):
the kun klkata or those says police stations and out
of that twenty two police stations may say Hindu inspector
Muslim inspectors laga. Now the question is out of twenty
four y twenty two because Baki Dome Anglo Indian karrying
(09:33):
any and then he said that he himself sat at
the police headquarters Saardi and he monitored this butchering of Hindus.
The streets were full of skeletons and the vultures while
eating the whatever flesh from the dead body. Photos sub
available and subjaga we have recreated in our film and
these photos are taken from Time and Life magazine. They
(09:55):
were taken by a photograph of photo journalist called Margaret
Maryataki Mahinota and Coats and these are foreign journalists. That
the sky was black because of the smoke and the vultures.
It was black Jose and that's why was called but
(10:22):
it will pure Hindu genocide. A map with parallel data.
A lot of people have seen shindra done about gas
chambers are juice co gas chamber Okay and Wewitz how
Jews were tortured and kids. I went to Aschwitz. It
was a life changing experience for me. Country a semi
(10:46):
genocide they ca charp Logo gas chamber genocide on the
sixteenth August. Patulos on the seventeenth of August. So there
was an Uria person. He he had a cotton milk
called cotton mill, so he asked all the Hindus to
take shelter over.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
There was a mary fatory Majo.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
They couldn't even breathe and Hindu children were thrown into
boiled water and they were killed.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Like that historical account. Foreign journalist jo reporting.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Indian right wing left sky r SMS. So I didn't
want to get into that chotas a passage. So now
biased a few lifes if they has Jana. There are
many who argue, why would you want to revisit history?
There are many who say kya bawi pik has j Hey.
(11:55):
Unless you learn from history, you are condemned to repeat
your mistakes. Is that the line that you're working forward
that you're bringing through this movie Bengal Files because it's
created a lot of controversy. You are wearing a T
shirt that says never again, So that that dark chapter.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In our history is never reverted. Is that your intention?
Files That's what I meant. You had a para. One day,
a ghastly sceno Barbarati came to my notice while going
to the university through Raja Bazar area, like butcher suki,
parts of slaughtered animals hanging by hooks. Similarly, naked bodies
(12:35):
of Hindu girls, their hands and legs sewed were kept
hanging by hairs. Horrid and heineus was that scene? It
was the first time that I saw the open upper
of ladies written by mister GiB Mazumdar x ig of
Police West Bengal, the great Calcutta killings and Noakhali JENSI
(12:57):
on those hooks naked bodies of women over there? Yeah, manigo,
you know I police is saying that.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I say, this is this.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Research book we had made for I come to this
research book in just a moment, and I want you
to read out the next parat too. But I want
to understand your thinking. Joe Chase motive got childish question?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Because if you go to a psychiatrist problem pressed and
I merital problem, job related problem. When you go to
a psychiatrist, the medical science to subsep l a psychiatrist
that the acknowledgment of your trauma is the first step
towards healing. Generational trauma co addressed nikkering healing Jogi indiakaki
(14:06):
freedom kabad freedom, your partition look freedom multi partisan U
partition kabad joe Hindu community the majority trauma, honey, Muslims
are marginalized. You Western thinking think oppressors a majority jogi
or minority op pressed ki likin. We are the only
society which was ruled for twelve hundred years for by
(14:28):
the minority minority to a generational trauma Maris society. Example
THEO but a funny kalme body journalist Tiny Bombay. She
was talking to me senior journalists and she was talking
yea yea yea. Suddenly when she said, licking k this
is this is like one community is manka namatai? Which
(14:49):
community is point of view? Because you know, no, no, because
it's a it's a it's a Hindu community, Domenica, Why
are you hesitating before saying this kuki as? Then she explained,
if she talks about Hindus so she will sound communal.
But when you say Muslims are marginalized, then nobody thinks
it's a communal thing. Muslim history of films, the Jewish
(15:12):
Christian is triban, the Hindu Hindu architecture, Richie temples, carvings,
a sculpting world after nineteen seventies, architecture schools, my Hindu architecture,
it's subject to.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Hindu history, subject from the parana bankaria like in temple
architecture to school maybe, but are You're right, not at
the advanced stage that much.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's that's why our houses, our buildings have no Hindu
architecture anymore, because you have stopped teaching a mag architecture.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
They don't know. I think.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I hope now they're getting back to their roots to
understand how cus ventilation surajis q Q right of high ceilings.
So t tup q cokas.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But anyway, coming back to this topic, to ye Salbad
Yeki Bengal, it's not rich as an m m a
q a Bengali filmmakers at sam and all says sat
Mavara right in Logan in ninety seven nineteen seventy one,
(16:29):
majoua us quadreskia Ligan is problem with a dressia streak
of q thinking that communists thinking t jok Hindus can
never be oppressed right Mayenni kara ki Hindu stri batanaka
Muslims the problem a Muslims galate as an a Muslim
j kam Katami unit made the Muslims. They were a
first Dad Muslim too family made the Muslim Shadik America
(16:54):
and m Savalvoni other a ka pain or troma is
a problemmae or logan film Kashmir, kashmirio Kashmiri Muslims CA
pain or trauma film Ambani mission Kashmi rosa header of
(17:15):
fun of a h film a ban but it starts
at director to eight film Kashmir.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Problem same Bollywood or Bollywood thinking for a jab melet
Ma Presho says it karjo subject at go ki yeb
hamne America.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
May we did twelve screening some Guido screening birthday Birthday
twelve demand is film called jan Z Shrumania at the
first couple of screenings, but first screening. When you are
New Yorker Rutgers Universe three K students started spreading word
to fourteen years a laker twenty three, twenty four year
khk Louka or a gen z jumper, and most of
(18:02):
them said, when we entered the theater, we were someone else,
and when we stepped out, we are a different person.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And they've gone back with that thinking of never again.
So what is the main I know from what I've
read about what this film is likely to be. It's
the massacre of Hindus that took place. It is about
the riots or the massacre as you put it so,
and it's it's about the direct action Day says single
(18:31):
out Hindu or bag Is that this movie all about?
See ether direct action Day.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Or Nakali the bark partition Wenota shiad right, And these
were the two defining movements and the the the the
magnitude of violence or I'd say the intensity of violence.
This the world has never seen in such short shortest
period of time.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Charged charlis are low.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's it's impossible to imagine or work at a
momsulum likin Yahpeto A.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Did a movie a graphic description of how Hindus was?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, I have all the pictures, I have taken,
all the videos, I've taken all the descriptions, and I've
recreated it, every single word, every single shot, every visual
in the film. Which you see is I challenge every
historian of the world from any side. I challenge them
find me one mistake in that or anything which is
not documented in at least ten to fifteen officially authentic
(19:36):
recognized documents. So there's no creative liberty that you take
as a math Gandhi medi film just that jobola. I
have just translated the dialogues from Urdu to Hindi or
English to Hindi or Bengali to Hindi. That's all I've done,
and that also we have got it checked from scholars
of Bengali, correct translation, agin nuanced MCO problem we too. Problemly,
(20:01):
the only liberty we have taken is in the modern times.
I have just changed the names, okay, because lots of
legal cases are going on right now on some MLAs
or something, so I didn't want to take that like
in just a CBI pay Stone pelting OUI about the
real kiss Maiki Bati. You see how deep our research
(20:24):
and understanding of the problem is, Hamne did we shot
this film in October or December twenty twenty four men
to first your modern time a present time, just to
give you a context. Filmmah Ki Muslim lely announced that
this partition is an unfinished project to vui criminal violence,
wui criminal politics, that sinister politics BBCH. So our our
(20:48):
conclusion was yes, okay, this is my conclusion. So that
is our understanding. To show that to prove that ham
Khaliq example Lie boss Aichio example Lie Quick for example,
there's a demography changed to Yeah India today India to
report can quote unquote can create four Pakistans if thirty
(21:12):
percent Muslims in India unite, says t MC leader Shaikh
Alam India to report correct to Hamne Calcatam a modern time.
Two days before the shoote, we had put a big
set in Bombay to Usmei Calcutta police station to Mohape.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It was set.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But tho in Vallemeneka are Calkatani. This should be chobis
Perghana area on a chai where I fear that turmoil
is going to first turmoil is going to take place.
So my assistant Saser Uh India looks. They will say
is an upi dom Yeah, marifilm a marionis was intelligent.
They will go and research to two days before when
(21:55):
a change costume change care police in Calcutta white and Kaki,
the change costume and a kaks whatever we showed there,
whatever we shot over there, the how the riots are designed,
how everything takes place. Hamneja newspaper headlines print manse I
wrote those headlines and we printed and used them in
(22:17):
the film in April twenty twenty five, six months later,
exactly carbon copy. Same thing happened in Murshidaba. To look
up the mushakib reality, the kaya no Hamwa hypothesis, create
key and we are proven right, very sadly, very unfortunately.
(22:37):
So that's how deep we have gone in to VoJo
sinister politics, Sokiti. Same politics is going on right now
as bad, I mean slower than that, but as bad.
But ultimately eight Nai then Asahoga Kashmir vak McAfee, look
jup seventies mkathy hey Kibei beware Yeah, Inova genocide or
(23:00):
Kashmir kore kneki demand then nobody took it seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Nineteen ninety What what Kashmir file shows was a disaster
that happened, and people slipped through sleepwalk through that disaster.
A loud speakers say, Hindu.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
A machine I mean, and we've lived through that in.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Our times justice assassination Jata.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Volatile political.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Family team may say somebody was sitting with the then
Prime minister in the aircraft in the plane and he
warned him Key you know yohoga he said, any as yoga.
My friend Faru has told me nothing will happen. Or
raji he told me quote un quote maps videos testimonial
to I have a video testimonial to Hamnebad casually lya
(24:09):
Bengalko we are taking casually. When I'm saying Bengal is
becoming new Kashmir, I'm very serious about it. Or other
control Niki ilegal immigration, joh Usko empower Karneka Jo Kama
and Joe state powers. When you empower illegal immigrant Jo America,
maybe you are just a current tromjk Avurusko control Linikiya.
(24:29):
So maybe five years, ten years later, fifteen years later,
a situation will arise which will be uncontrollable, which will
be divisive, and it will be very difficult to deal
with it, like Kashmir has become a very difficult situation.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But the leadership in Bengal and the political parties, they're
they're accusing you of one fishing in troubled waters before elections.
And two they're saying none of this is true in
today's day and age. It's a peaceful state where Hindus
and Muslims live in total communal harmony. Is sewaki communal
How many disturbed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Hindu Muslim arm ka kara.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Eighty percent Hindu a or twenty percent Muslim. So reverse
me a bad trailer. It says true story of Hindu
Jano side. They don't like it. They don't want it.
To appeasement, to appeasement, s appeasement to the kive a
soft chije. This is the empowering of a certain section,
(25:38):
empowerment up on kodio to ki. He's a chin vitrio.
You ask Anny Bengali Hindu, He'll tell you the reality. Makum,
Why should I speak up? Go to my trailer. Just
see the reactions below. No film gets these kind of reactions.
Everybody is saying that it happened with my grandfather, happened
with my mother. Abi report care news mathija correct Joe.
(26:04):
Now the problem is that why should a state government
just state government a constitution key three mary free speech
k free speech co protect karneki. Why should that state government,
stop my free speech. What are they trying to suppress?
So they're suppressing it to the phone, no example, the
(26:29):
distributor of Bangalka. He's saying, if this film is released
in Bengal, it will create history. It will create history, hysteria, history,
kata si demand kabi every Bengali people are calling and
theater memory that as a demand in it will create history.
But the theaters, the multiplex chains are refusing to release it.
(26:51):
Not because they don't want to, because they cannot.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Situation versuin ker communal violence, social harmonyminal violence, extortionist, Joki,
politically empowered, he today police trailer, Gorka visuals channel Child.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Sorry, female journalists, you were like quite a night in shining.
I'm sorry in a very I mean, I can take
this liberty with I was.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I was just she's also an actor of the film,
and she's when I journalist in Safe Unknown, people came
in journalist and it was house was full only of
the journalists, no outsiders except of six or seven of us,
you know, the actors, and few people of the our
(27:54):
production company. That's it, do you suddenly? So anyway the
problem is the constitution y O three number two. Anybody
who's a proud Bengali, they should salute us for making
this film. For the first time, such a historical, powerful
(28:18):
document is coming out. The perception about Bengal will change forever.
But Bengal history with the but Jega, what have we lost?
The great heritage of Bengal reform movements never kit national songs, Kitaissance.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Movement.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Sorry, who knows this?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They will really proud of this and they will they
go other.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Mane Ana sacrifice after we are successful.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
If you get to kim Mani ma ki Sali Merii
Mari Maaniitna sacrifice ki.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If you get to know after you are successful, how
proud you will be of that and how much care
you are going to take off your mother after that?
Right parents, Kakya sacrifice jo Hindustan sacrifice to India Caja
mai generation taki? How much has gone beyond this? Your
(29:38):
perception changes America young generation Niyaka, Oh, suddenly we are
now looking at India differently, they said, Sir. We used
to look at Jews and Blacks from a very very
different with a lot of empathy, and we used to think, okay,
even if they make mistake, let them because they've suffered
so much. We never thought about Hindus like this.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
To Aka Bengal files up Nikia like in Hindus kajo
barat mehi civilizational persecution, persecutions.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Just say lagata resist kiya lagatar with.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
While some of them settled down and accepted our way
of life, some continued to resist and race. But some
continued to resist and con They still want to change
the way we live in this land. So will you
continue to you know, raise your voice through your medium?
Is that what your effort is?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
If I can, as long as I'm capable of doing that,
I'll do it. The Okaki Maya Samantoki India was a
knowledge Centervo Vulkar knowledge center through knowledge could destroy kshila.
The great university university system was Pakistani heritage loose or
(31:01):
Zugara universe tychkaffee to Bengal into Bangladesh banglades.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Loose koa? What have you lost? How? What will you defend?
What will you protect? Culture?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Is that is that the history civilizational history are not proud.
We don't understand who we are. Roots I is chice
could protect niker Joe? What scarcity Humbodhi small town middle class.
Scarcity pass is trouser t shirt, kidney value.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Everything which I get is kidney value.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Every time I eat food, hotel to they were that
is you know to scarcity I do she cheach cmmunal violence.
(32:04):
India still suffers from that and it's put the col
denying them politics politics or India problem. We take two
steps forward, we take four steps backwards. Is kogara those fundamentals?
What was that? Politics? Jik current? But a civilization?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Do parts.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Or you feel future warning hair? How do we protect it?
It's a it's a it's a it's a film which
is going to unite Indians, is going to heal people.
It will express a generational trauma which never got a
chance to be expressed. So this at three prom Kamkar
film they.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Can do you foresee, Apparently there are some cases that
are being filed so that legally now you will have
a battle.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The truth is the most controversial thing and most scary thing.
Some such truth sick is problem or problem they started
filing a five years or eaten multiple or cost the
(33:18):
party workers coolcake is part around legal notices and all
that because they try to demoralize you. They want you
to get stuck in legal process Niger PI. But they
also don't know who they are dealing with. You're not demoralized, man, strength,
but you're not scared. I'm not scared but.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Strong.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Okay, compliment because how important it is for me to
release this film. This opposition has has convinced me if
we have done the right thing, it is so important
at MC to subsever chore uncomfortable there hair uncomfortable assumption
(34:09):
or should correct? Why should any no Bengali can ever
ban it? Impossible muslimo Bengal film film certification to then
there should be no supersensus? Is that what your point
of view is? By people who have taken oath of
the constitution, how can they? How can they suppress a
(34:29):
free speech of a constitutional body approved film unless until
they're working for Muslim League or their Pakistani agents? Why
will anybody tell me something? But why would anybody ban
a film on due Holocaust? Did anybody try to ban Oppenheimer?
Did anybody try to ban Rhondon genocide? The Hotel Rhnda?
Did anybody try to Why would any Why may Caro
(34:53):
Muslim genocide peril.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
India?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But Ito him Kashmir Mah Muslim super film Muslim Genocide
India ND Hindu geno side genocide directtions riot Suya Muslim Maria,
but as a retaliation, as a retaliation, the train retaliation
(35:20):
to retaliation Lincoln, Muslim population grow k, Muslims, industry and Mama.
It is being ruled by Muslims today, businesses, our stock market, Bombay,
stop the way all of us look at it. Everything
is being ruled by Indians. That is the perception that
(35:41):
all of us, you and I and that entire country
carries the.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Likin. And that's a strong statement you're making. Joe is
film Musli Pakistani, Pakistani.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Pakistani metaphorically, film logically, academically, if you are intellectual and
academic sitting down or India pure data basis Peka to
Krisco problem Indian partition can step a film. Pakistan mustremely
extremely called for the annihilation of Hindus. Problem that gaza
(36:23):
hind kind of elements Huh. Bengal Tarikar film dialog. That
girl says Mabat, she says Bengal indiaca lighthouse or hey
mattok I film dialog Bengala Bengali Scooby, I am so
(36:46):
proud palace that's the only cuisine in the world which
is seven course mealak is a French cuisine five course meal.
A world anti film, Sara in his seven course me.
So I'm very proud of Bengal. My parents used to live.
They were freedom fighters. They went to jail in from Calcutta.
(37:10):
I love, I love Calcutta. Some look breaker than Calcutta,
Calcutta despite or something I love.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I've studied in Kenri with l Fort Williams. So really
I have one memories maybe happening. I stayed on the ramparts.
So you're absolutely right. That beautiful. So it's a problem genoside.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
There's a Kashmir terrorist groups problem issue k Buki with
political party don't care much but should prevail. Maybe Arata
your leading newspapers right Hamari film car At Juata releasing
today the theater show it. They have refused to print
(37:58):
that ad paid adnel leading newspapers, leading newspaper.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
What is what have you been?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We have to survive here, We'll have trouble. So is
it likely to be fifth? Is it likely to be
released in I will fight my tooth and nail Matt
And I'm that kind of a filmmaker. Conviction, pasay, I'm
conviction or what the what the passions say?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Film?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And we I mean, our conscience is totally clear. Amari
film last trailer filmmaker. And he is holding a Hindu
and Muslim thread and he says, but always were the
people of and that is the intent of the film.
(38:48):
Hum party. But I'm Indian. Indian bol was fa secularist narrative.
But I'm paleto first definitely Tom Bharti who said, yeah
Bharti khn he is a son and daughter of Mabharti. Yeah,
(39:11):
nineteen hundred and five May yeah, yeah, Abindr Nath tagor
Joki Ravina Tago nephew the nineteen hundred and five. He
made this when uh Bengal was divided into Hindu Bengal
and Muslim Bengal. Okay, this is all the knowledge our
(39:31):
spirituality and this is the industry of this thing. And
she this is the only goddess who has two heloes
bud christ maka helos right look at her body. This
u he introduced so they see values into art and
(39:53):
he started a renaissance called Bengali School of Art, the
Bengal School of Art. Oy Helo Ka thought process yeah,
butler a divine moving from ignorance to knowledge from so
much anura knowledge art culture divinejo or kura bajo knowledge
(40:23):
hellos maham is kajo beta betti.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Easily or yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
This is inspired from bunk an mud, which is inspired
from knowledge created world k which is immortal knowledge wojo
knowledge heir concepta is CoA because det unconditionally dirty guy
(40:59):
Zaman hand to mab to Your film was concept by based.
But I was sitting so many stalls hama ganga jovin
aduced to many to nineteen hundred and five met like
in our other ms repeat curtain or not brown Field,
(41:26):
but many ma to or traumatized hogipenhug. What will she say?
This is an artist's interpretation, Marisa many sah destroy kia
(41:52):
j uja molestkya like in my zenda, so that you
reach here to what have you done for me? Such
bold wrong gora. That was the moment I said, I
have to make this film. This is my calling. I'm
just a medium on my such can as a medium.
I have made this film. I got it made through me?
(42:13):
How did I find all these survivors? One hundred year old?
One hundred and two year old Kayou on the interview
Lukos was they died were they were very old? Things
kept happening and today we are here releasing this film.
And why no director ever thought about it? No director
thought about it. So for me, it's merelybody's sacred cheese.
(42:38):
But it's coming out of purity. Yes there's a violence.
It's called art of absence. Art of absence is when
something is absent, then only you understand the value of it,
the woe artistic nuance. I am showing what happens when
humanity is absent. This is what happens, and clearly there
(42:58):
was no humanity.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
But are you saying today we're reaching that situation because
that is something that the Bengal government is taking strong
objection two point one point two. They are then linking
it to politics of the times and elections in Bengal.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
So they're saying, art co a political medium may use.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Do you think I'm an intelligent person or a dumb person?
What do you think? Do I have some logic? Some intelligence?
Talk about intelligence? May under Toma August September mere release
Karuma I should have released in January. Now film your news.
I will release elections for a and the second thing
is India elections, municipality election, whose state co election? Macha right,
(43:47):
we were releasing on fifteenth of August or others.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Trailer release was timed with direct that tenth of August exactly.
That's that's appointidence. I told you now, things are happening
on their own time. The film came, we announced fifteenth August,
but for some reasons it got postponed on to fifth
of September, or trailers you have bes in so timing
(44:12):
as your week if you have September, a beast in
para sixteenth and nothing can be more appropriate than releasing
on direct action day. Direct action Joe Parahy and I'm
sure a lot of our you know, I always know
Chuck review podcast, k Joe May, viewers, Hey, or audience listeners.
(44:32):
They instantly fact check everything, they cross check and they
come back to us, which is something that gives.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Me great pride that you know, we have a very
loyal band of listeners.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
After this podcast, you should check the replies. I'm telling
you a lot of people, I'm going to forward them
to you. A lot of people are going to write.
They will they know about it, their research. Just see
the count action day no no our discussion. Just see
the replies. I'm telling you what people are going to write.
I know it because they are not allowed to speak.
They will write in replies because facts must come out
in public public domain.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I am all for facts coming out in public domain
because unless you learn from history, you're condemned to repeat it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Malak why I say the same politics is going on
in Noakhali. That was the first case of censorship of press.
Noakhali is surrounded by uh backwaters newspapers. So Gulam Sara Hussan,
you actually led the genocide of Hindus. He killed four
(45:32):
hundred Hindus and one night in Rajin Lal roy Chadry's house,
those sub censor Kerdia i kin Co newspaper, Majiagani Co newspaper,
Agony Congress, Indian National Congress Office called bomb Kardia, Blast
Kardia Purah, Censor Oga India makes yukoenoid or just maybe
(45:57):
Kadi is playing somebody whose tongue is burnt. It's come
from there. That was the punishment. Nobody was allowed to
talk about it for ten fifteen days right intensity depending
film Anara thopress. Newspapers are not allowed to put our ads.
(46:19):
Theaters are not allowed to this thing sub officially, it's
not officially in official talido multiplex trailer launched or film
trailer theater. I am the only one who has launched
in a five star hotle because we were not allowed.
As as soon as I landed at the airport, I
was told the theater newspaper light card.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Emergency. That's the problem. So but were you rattled the
kind of your bed and reeve?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, as an instant kill level, but I was inside.
I was very very scared. Is unknown faces an to
these people have come to create nuisance America? Nuisance oak
Kisara or film. That was my first thought and my
(47:31):
second instant thought was what about these girls and women?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
You know to take them? How did she react to you? Later?
Is a brave, very brave person. So don't worry.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I'll take care of myself to you. But somehow Ki,
because I have CRP of security to be got saved
and Upper Kidney journalist Mapo messages after the show, I
can show you they've written to me, Sara, you were
you and the same police is the wire cut with
(48:03):
police protect or order, Lana, How do you then now
intend taking this forward Bengal release, what's your strategy? They've
got geno in a constitution, So again I'll fall back
on constitution or I'll go to the court and I
will definitely appeal to appeal to courtes to protect my rights.
(48:27):
Like in quote to shadow Order, I mean there's nobody
who can stop it. Can other we release? So then
it's a very set commentary on our democracy. Uh then
Matho film Nataronga. But lots of Vivek three's who have
potential and who want to make films related to bold
(48:49):
subjects and strong subjects, they will be disheartened and they
won't make films like that, and we will keep making
these very dumbing down, stupid films which will show a
Lala land, never address the reality.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
You know, since you mentioned Lala and the last couple
of minutes that we have on this part of the show,
Bollywood issues per film.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
But is there aerta kind of a code issues?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
But is that about to profit to profit? Film Ismaga
profet Cuban film like in problem Kaki artists Johanna fearless
artists called He's artists again they have become brand inveastadors.
(49:48):
That's why you see our industry. Yeah, the stars, that's
why you'll see the stars. What do where do you
see the maximum? You will see them in doing events,
in brands and advertising, where rarely you see them doing films.
Tint made film, so they're like, we also make films
and they make all their money from somewhere else. Our
brands don't want any controversy. They want everything like very
(50:12):
very neutralized, sanitized. Why didn't film industry come out on
the streets? Background and India a big problem? Film industry
(50:35):
Look photos, pass beta valley, beta film shooting.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Up, come photographs, search career viewers, the Kumarain generations up to.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
India.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
You look Barber released Chan a cricket match kilt so
that they can get money. Film industry collectively used to
donate to Prime Minister's fund. India a film industry, India
a terrorist attack?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
O you.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
A film industry. Nobody uttered the word Q.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Because hamari film is a correct yes, pine or as
an em social issues by film.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Corruption against film.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Even Amita who played larger than live but all his
films addressed some social evil of the society Amesha or
Hindi film industry is the only film industry in the
entire world which I am so proud of. I can't
tell you and nobody tells this thing which has created
a special genre called social Muslim dramas, Muslim socials, Italy
(52:24):
film Sara Troniki Muslim socials, holl Champion Islamic marginalization, uper.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Film, Muslim.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
HindII Hamari commercial movies and Aha Muslim actors there jaw
Saki s same important film career key. I think most
defining film hero Shi is a manachartakis. Too many montha
(53:02):
in cha poor Indian except to our Muslim, social Hindu
history hindus.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
A film.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
But I really look forward to watching your film. And
you've made the Bengal Files. Viewers will decide on merit
how that film is. But for your passion and your
effort and for joining me here on India Today on
the Chuck Review podcast, so many thanks.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I really like talking to you. Sentimental control Gia. It
is because your eyes have such honest and pure look.
Or my director is honest but wonderful you Maple give
never again they town This is
Speaker 3 (53:55):
India Today Podcasts
This is end here today podcasts never again.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
When you hear the word never again, the context usually
that you and I would think of is twenty six
eleven Mumbai terror attacks. Never again, will we let Pakistani
state sponsored radical Islamish terra bleed our country?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
But then we have been bled for a very very
long time.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And on the Chuck Review podcast today explaining why he's
wearing that never again T shirt and the context is
a very special guest I want to welcome on the
Chuck Review podcast vivek Ranjan Agniho III. Sir, welcome the
director and writer of the Bengal Files and the Tashkan Files.
(00:48):
You very you know, close on right the trilogy of
files that you've done. But sir, before we dive into
that conversation, welcome to the Chuck Review Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Explain this t shirt never again?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you, Thank you, God, thank you very much. So
this idea of never again. Actually there's a lot of
background to this, you know, Okay, let me just give
the context to this. When we are researching the Kashmir Files.
I am a very social politically aware person. I'm son
of freedom fighters, I've studied politics. But he still I
(01:20):
didn't know some one thing, which is that in the
history of humanity, the most persecuted and most enslaved society
is Hindu society. For twelve hundred years, we were persecuted
and enslaved continuously. Or joy Communist Hindi maybe beacha buls
equals sir toyejopuraka pura to Western idea have oh oppressor
(01:42):
or oppressed c They believe that majority is the oppressor
and minority is always the oppressed. Kashmir Cosilia. They perceived
that Kashmir Mah Hindus are the majorities of vailog oppress current.
But India is a very unique country. In this country,
minorities have oppressed the majority for twelve hundred years.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
When now you tell me.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Right inya kariki a generational collective consciousness ari amar memory,
muscle memory. I have noticed career Amsha malik ma bab Blo,
Saha Blodu is society am But the problem is that
(02:38):
no young person, even middle aged or old people, they
don't know that we are the most persecuted and slave
society in the world. Slavery is Niki India, Blacks Africa
black persecution who are pulling a juice baraschakerlook Google to
(03:03):
my believe. So then I said, can you ever find
a jew childhood doesn't know about the Holocaust? Can you
find a black boy or a girl who doesn't know
about slavery? Can you ever find a Japanese childhood doesn't
know about the bombing of Heroshima, Nagasaki, or a Rhondon
childhood doesn't know about Rohndon genocide, or an Armenian childhood
(03:26):
doesn't know about Armenian genocide?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Then how come we don't know about this?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And for research Calcuta boards plus antique Josua clubs, restaurants,
Dogs and Indians not allowed, Dogs use hierarchy, Mooper, Indians bamed,
dogs and Indians not right about a con collar. And
(03:51):
I said, actually, Jews and Cha never ever again, So Tomenica,
never again to genocide, never again to terrorism what happened
in Kashmi, never again to crimunal violence which we suffered,
never again to partition. And now I'm adding never again
to banning of a trailer. So Tama traileria gather. So
that's how it is. Maklivil Ow your T shirt, I've
(04:13):
especially got it for you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
You're very handsome in this. Yeah, you're so kind, You're
so kind like in Yejo Mudhah.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
There is a very serious issue that you're talking about,
and I want to I want you to shed light
on the Bengal files. So let's dive straight into Bengal files.
Apne Bengal files movie Bananikichikiki. The allegation is one you
make movies that target the opposition states or the opposition
(04:40):
leaders and why this love for Kashmir files, Tashkan files,
now Bengal files before elections in Bengal Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So allegation is always an allegation. People can allege anything,
but like the taskcan files, how does it benefit anybody?
And who is it opposing? I don't understand the the
controversy around the mysterious death of the second Prime Minister
of India, whose job is it to issue a white
paper and say heart attacks you with his family will
(05:13):
be very happy if they resolved with the concluded family
conclusion in our family pat bet.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Parent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Similarly resolving conclusion in Amla, what can you do about it? Similarly,
Bengal may society in a sacrifice subsid society in the
pain to have Bengal. Bengal was the only state in
(05:56):
which is which was divided thrice. Oh, absolutely, people know
Hindu Bengal and Muslim Bengal shi Ubino and movement Chalukya
to there to united it's not powerful to movement. Then
in nineteen forty seven, then in nineteen seventy one, it
(06:18):
was culturally divided the Bengali cultures for Islamic stata, the
or Abi Macaro, Mira Mana, I mean it's not open
to discussion for Miramana. Bengal right now is mentally and
psychologically divided and also socially divided in today's day and
of course in today's day and age. And so yeh
(06:42):
three and a half divisions or do we say great
examples and jampe it's from a massive cultural renaissance. Who
you parallel in Uska France mey Bengal for Franz caa
renaissance k remnants.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You have a Biling.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Bengalara heritage Kodia to bengalerspt there to my partition to
what is the first image that comes to your mind?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
West Pakistan Panjab, the migration that took place from West
Pakistan to our Punjab or to the rest of our
country that's.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
What everybody in India believes. That is because of Bollywood films.
But it is half truth. That's not full truth. To
crushe playground partition for the Bengal nineteen hundred and five
other Direct Tection Day or purely Hindu Geno. It was
(07:45):
a call to annihilate Hindus demographically marginally Hindu Jada, the
Directation Day to Bengal Co Laboratory, Banadiya Violinski Prime Minister,
key demography, change your Calcutta Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And I want and I want a viewers and our
listeners to this podcast to keep this in mind. Direct
Action Day, the naw Khali Nua Khali massacre.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The violence that took place.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
In our history books a para, a couple of paras,
maybe a little a page or two.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
But not more riots. Right, it wasn't a riot, serious
cure riot. Alia Sola the nineteen forty six speech here
key sixty Ram sol or Ramzanka eighteenth day and eighteenth
(08:52):
day is known for the Battle of bad Just in
Teens of Tea Teens of Tea, he said, it's the
most auspicious day or hamko Jaha key permission Alan Adia
or is then as chay. We have to finish all
(09:12):
the kun klkata or those says police stations and out
of that twenty two police stations may say Hindu inspector
Muslim inspectors laga. Now the question is out of twenty
four y twenty two because Baki Dome Anglo Indian karrying
(09:33):
any and then he said that he himself sat at
the police headquarters Saardi and he monitored this butchering of Hindus.
The streets were full of skeletons and the vultures while
eating the whatever flesh from the dead body. Photos sub
available and subjaga we have recreated in our film and
these photos are taken from Time and Life magazine. They
(09:55):
were taken by a photograph of photo journalist called Margaret
Maryataki Mahinota and Coats and these are foreign journalists. That
the sky was black because of the smoke and the vultures.
It was black Jose and that's why was called but
(10:22):
it will pure Hindu genocide. A map with parallel data.
A lot of people have seen shindra done about gas
chambers are juice co gas chamber Okay and Wewitz how
Jews were tortured and kids. I went to Aschwitz. It
was a life changing experience for me. Country a semi
(10:46):
genocide they ca charp Logo gas chamber genocide on the
sixteenth August. Patulos on the seventeenth of August. So there
was an Uria person. He he had a cotton milk
called cotton mill, so he asked all the Hindus to
take shelter over.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
There was a mary fatory Majo.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
They couldn't even breathe and Hindu children were thrown into
boiled water and they were killed.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Like that historical account. Foreign journalist jo reporting.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Indian right wing left sky r SMS. So I didn't
want to get into that chotas a passage. So now
biased a few lifes if they has Jana. There are
many who argue, why would you want to revisit history?
There are many who say kya bawi pik has j Hey.
(11:55):
Unless you learn from history, you are condemned to repeat
your mistakes. Is that the line that you're working forward
that you're bringing through this movie Bengal Files because it's
created a lot of controversy. You are wearing a T
shirt that says never again, So that that dark chapter.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In our history is never reverted. Is that your intention?
Files That's what I meant. You had a para. One day,
a ghastly sceno Barbarati came to my notice while going
to the university through Raja Bazar area, like butcher suki,
parts of slaughtered animals hanging by hooks. Similarly, naked bodies
(12:35):
of Hindu girls, their hands and legs sewed were kept
hanging by hairs. Horrid and heineus was that scene? It
was the first time that I saw the open upper
of ladies written by mister GiB Mazumdar x ig of
Police West Bengal, the great Calcutta killings and Noakhali JENSI
(12:57):
on those hooks naked bodies of women over there? Yeah, manigo,
you know I police is saying that.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I say, this is this.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Research book we had made for I come to this
research book in just a moment, and I want you
to read out the next parat too. But I want
to understand your thinking. Joe Chase motive got childish question?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Because if you go to a psychiatrist problem pressed and
I merital problem, job related problem. When you go to
a psychiatrist, the medical science to subsep l a psychiatrist
that the acknowledgment of your trauma is the first step
towards healing. Generational trauma co addressed nikkering healing Jogi indiakaki
(14:06):
freedom kabad freedom, your partition look freedom multi partisan U
partition kabad joe Hindu community the majority trauma, honey, Muslims
are marginalized. You Western thinking think oppressors a majority jogi
or minority op pressed ki likin. We are the only
society which was ruled for twelve hundred years for by
(14:28):
the minority minority to a generational trauma Maris society. Example
THEO but a funny kalme body journalist Tiny Bombay. She
was talking to me senior journalists and she was talking
yea yea yea. Suddenly when she said, licking k this
is this is like one community is manka namatai? Which
(14:49):
community is point of view? Because you know, no, no, because
it's a it's a it's a Hindu community, Domenica, Why
are you hesitating before saying this kuki as? Then she explained,
if she talks about Hindus so she will sound communal.
But when you say Muslims are marginalized, then nobody thinks
it's a communal thing. Muslim history of films, the Jewish
(15:12):
Christian is triban, the Hindu Hindu architecture, Richie temples, carvings,
a sculpting world after nineteen seventies, architecture schools, my Hindu architecture,
it's subject to.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Hindu history, subject from the parana bankaria like in temple
architecture to school maybe, but are You're right, not at
the advanced stage that much.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's that's why our houses, our buildings have no Hindu
architecture anymore, because you have stopped teaching a mag architecture.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
They don't know. I think.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I hope now they're getting back to their roots to
understand how cus ventilation surajis q Q right of high ceilings.
So t tup q cokas.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But anyway, coming back to this topic, to ye Salbad
Yeki Bengal, it's not rich as an m m a
q a Bengali filmmakers at sam and all says sat
Mavara right in Logan in ninety seven nineteen seventy one,
(16:29):
majoua us quadreskia Ligan is problem with a dressia streak
of q thinking that communists thinking t jok Hindus can
never be oppressed right Mayenni kara ki Hindu stri batanaka
Muslims the problem a Muslims galate as an a Muslim
j kam Katami unit made the Muslims. They were a
first Dad Muslim too family made the Muslim Shadik America
(16:54):
and m Savalvoni other a ka pain or troma is
a problemmae or logan film Kashmir, kashmirio Kashmiri Muslims CA
pain or trauma film Ambani mission Kashmi rosa header of
(17:15):
fun of a h film a ban but it starts
at director to eight film Kashmir.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Problem same Bollywood or Bollywood thinking for a jab melet
Ma Presho says it karjo subject at go ki yeb
hamne America.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
May we did twelve screening some Guido screening birthday Birthday
twelve demand is film called jan Z Shrumania at the
first couple of screenings, but first screening. When you are
New Yorker Rutgers Universe three K students started spreading word
to fourteen years a laker twenty three, twenty four year
khk Louka or a gen z jumper, and most of
(18:02):
them said, when we entered the theater, we were someone else,
and when we stepped out, we are a different person.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And they've gone back with that thinking of never again.
So what is the main I know from what I've
read about what this film is likely to be. It's
the massacre of Hindus that took place. It is about
the riots or the massacre as you put it so,
and it's it's about the direct action Day says single
(18:31):
out Hindu or bag Is that this movie all about?
See ether direct action Day.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Or Nakali the bark partition Wenota shiad right, And these
were the two defining movements and the the the the
magnitude of violence or I'd say the intensity of violence.
This the world has never seen in such short shortest
period of time.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Charged charlis are low.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's it's impossible to imagine or work at a
momsulum likin Yahpeto A.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Did a movie a graphic description of how Hindus was?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, I have all the pictures, I have taken,
all the videos, I've taken all the descriptions, and I've
recreated it, every single word, every single shot, every visual
in the film. Which you see is I challenge every
historian of the world from any side. I challenge them
find me one mistake in that or anything which is
not documented in at least ten to fifteen officially authentic
(19:36):
recognized documents. So there's no creative liberty that you take
as a math Gandhi medi film just that jobola. I
have just translated the dialogues from Urdu to Hindi or
English to Hindi or Bengali to Hindi. That's all I've done,
and that also we have got it checked from scholars
of Bengali, correct translation, agin nuanced MCO problem we too. Problemly,
(20:01):
the only liberty we have taken is in the modern times.
I have just changed the names, okay, because lots of
legal cases are going on right now on some MLAs
or something, so I didn't want to take that like
in just a CBI pay Stone pelting OUI about the
real kiss Maiki Bati. You see how deep our research
(20:24):
and understanding of the problem is, Hamne did we shot
this film in October or December twenty twenty four men
to first your modern time a present time, just to
give you a context. Filmmah Ki Muslim lely announced that
this partition is an unfinished project to vui criminal violence,
wui criminal politics, that sinister politics BBCH. So our our
(20:48):
conclusion was yes, okay, this is my conclusion. So that
is our understanding. To show that to prove that ham
Khaliq example Lie boss Aichio example Lie Quick for example,
there's a demography changed to Yeah India today India to
report can quote unquote can create four Pakistans if thirty
(21:12):
percent Muslims in India unite, says t MC leader Shaikh
Alam India to report correct to Hamne Calcatam a modern time.
Two days before the shoote, we had put a big
set in Bombay to Usmei Calcutta police station to Mohape.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It was set.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But tho in Vallemeneka are Calkatani. This should be chobis
Perghana area on a chai where I fear that turmoil
is going to first turmoil is going to take place.
So my assistant Saser Uh India looks. They will say
is an upi dom Yeah, marifilm a marionis was intelligent.
They will go and research to two days before when
(21:55):
a change costume change care police in Calcutta white and Kaki,
the change costume and a kaks whatever we showed there,
whatever we shot over there, the how the riots are designed,
how everything takes place. Hamneja newspaper headlines print manse I
wrote those headlines and we printed and used them in
(22:17):
the film in April twenty twenty five, six months later,
exactly carbon copy. Same thing happened in Murshidaba. To look
up the mushakib reality, the kaya no Hamwa hypothesis, create
key and we are proven right, very sadly, very unfortunately.
(22:37):
So that's how deep we have gone in to VoJo
sinister politics, Sokiti. Same politics is going on right now
as bad, I mean slower than that, but as bad.
But ultimately eight Nai then Asahoga Kashmir vak McAfee, look
jup seventies mkathy hey Kibei beware Yeah, Inova genocide or
(23:00):
Kashmir kore kneki demand then nobody took it seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Nineteen ninety What what Kashmir file shows was a disaster
that happened, and people slipped through sleepwalk through that disaster.
A loud speakers say, Hindu.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
A machine I mean, and we've lived through that in.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Our times justice assassination Jata.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Volatile political.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Family team may say somebody was sitting with the then
Prime minister in the aircraft in the plane and he
warned him Key you know yohoga he said, any as yoga.
My friend Faru has told me nothing will happen. Or
raji he told me quote un quote maps videos testimonial
to I have a video testimonial to Hamnebad casually lya
(24:09):
Bengalko we are taking casually. When I'm saying Bengal is
becoming new Kashmir, I'm very serious about it. Or other
control Niki ilegal immigration, joh Usko empower Karneka Jo Kama
and Joe state powers. When you empower illegal immigrant Jo America,
maybe you are just a current tromjk Avurusko control Linikiya.
(24:29):
So maybe five years, ten years later, fifteen years later,
a situation will arise which will be uncontrollable, which will
be divisive, and it will be very difficult to deal
with it, like Kashmir has become a very difficult situation.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But the leadership in Bengal and the political parties, they're
they're accusing you of one fishing in troubled waters before elections.
And two they're saying none of this is true in
today's day and age. It's a peaceful state where Hindus
and Muslims live in total communal harmony. Is sewaki communal
How many disturbed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Hindu Muslim arm ka kara.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Eighty percent Hindu a or twenty percent Muslim. So reverse
me a bad trailer. It says true story of Hindu
Jano side. They don't like it. They don't want it.
To appeasement, to appeasement, s appeasement to the kive a
soft chije. This is the empowering of a certain section,
(25:38):
empowerment up on kodio to ki. He's a chin vitrio.
You ask Anny Bengali Hindu, He'll tell you the reality. Makum,
Why should I speak up? Go to my trailer. Just
see the reactions below. No film gets these kind of reactions.
Everybody is saying that it happened with my grandfather, happened
with my mother. Abi report care news mathija correct Joe.
(26:04):
Now the problem is that why should a state government
just state government a constitution key three mary free speech
k free speech co protect karneki. Why should that state government,
stop my free speech. What are they trying to suppress?
So they're suppressing it to the phone, no example, the
(26:29):
distributor of Bangalka. He's saying, if this film is released
in Bengal, it will create history. It will create history, hysteria, history,
kata si demand kabi every Bengali people are calling and
theater memory that as a demand in it will create history.
But the theaters, the multiplex chains are refusing to release it.
(26:51):
Not because they don't want to, because they cannot.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Situation versuin ker communal violence, social harmonyminal violence, extortionist, Joki,
politically empowered, he today police trailer, Gorka visuals channel Child.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Sorry, female journalists, you were like quite a night in shining.
I'm sorry in a very I mean, I can take
this liberty with I was.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I was just she's also an actor of the film,
and she's when I journalist in Safe Unknown, people came
in journalist and it was house was full only of
the journalists, no outsiders except of six or seven of us,
you know, the actors, and few people of the our
(27:54):
production company. That's it, do you suddenly? So anyway the
problem is the constitution y O three number two. Anybody
who's a proud Bengali, they should salute us for making
this film. For the first time, such a historical, powerful
(28:18):
document is coming out. The perception about Bengal will change forever.
But Bengal history with the but Jega, what have we lost?
The great heritage of Bengal reform movements never kit national songs, Kitaissance.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Movement.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Sorry, who knows this?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They will really proud of this and they will they
go other.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Mane Ana sacrifice after we are successful.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
If you get to kim Mani ma ki Sali Merii
Mari Maaniitna sacrifice ki.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If you get to know after you are successful, how
proud you will be of that and how much care
you are going to take off your mother after that?
Right parents, Kakya sacrifice jo Hindustan sacrifice to India Caja
mai generation taki? How much has gone beyond this? Your
(29:38):
perception changes America young generation Niyaka, Oh, suddenly we are
now looking at India differently, they said, Sir. We used
to look at Jews and Blacks from a very very
different with a lot of empathy, and we used to think, okay,
even if they make mistake, let them because they've suffered
so much. We never thought about Hindus like this.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
To Aka Bengal files up Nikia like in Hindus kajo
barat mehi civilizational persecution, persecutions.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Just say lagata resist kiya lagatar with.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
While some of them settled down and accepted our way
of life, some continued to resist and race. But some
continued to resist and con They still want to change
the way we live in this land. So will you
continue to you know, raise your voice through your medium?
Is that what your effort is?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
If I can, as long as I'm capable of doing that,
I'll do it. The Okaki Maya Samantoki India was a
knowledge Centervo Vulkar knowledge center through knowledge could destroy kshila.
The great university university system was Pakistani heritage loose or
(31:01):
Zugara universe tychkaffee to Bengal into Bangladesh banglades.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Loose koa? What have you lost? How? What will you defend?
What will you protect? Culture?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Is that is that the history civilizational history are not proud.
We don't understand who we are. Roots I is chice
could protect niker Joe? What scarcity Humbodhi small town middle class.
Scarcity pass is trouser t shirt, kidney value.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Everything which I get is kidney value.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Every time I eat food, hotel to they were that
is you know to scarcity I do she cheach cmmunal violence.
(32:04):
India still suffers from that and it's put the col
denying them politics politics or India problem. We take two
steps forward, we take four steps backwards. Is kogara those fundamentals?
What was that? Politics? Jik current? But a civilization?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Do parts.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Or you feel future warning hair? How do we protect it?
It's a it's a it's a it's a film which
is going to unite Indians, is going to heal people.
It will express a generational trauma which never got a
chance to be expressed. So this at three prom Kamkar
film they.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Can do you foresee, Apparently there are some cases that
are being filed so that legally now you will have
a battle.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The truth is the most controversial thing and most scary thing.
Some such truth sick is problem or problem they started
filing a five years or eaten multiple or cost the
(33:18):
party workers coolcake is part around legal notices and all
that because they try to demoralize you. They want you
to get stuck in legal process Niger PI. But they
also don't know who they are dealing with. You're not demoralized, man, strength,
but you're not scared. I'm not scared but.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Strong.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Okay, compliment because how important it is for me to
release this film. This opposition has has convinced me if
we have done the right thing, it is so important
at MC to subsever chore uncomfortable there hair uncomfortable assumption
(34:09):
or should correct? Why should any no Bengali can ever
ban it? Impossible muslimo Bengal film film certification to then
there should be no supersensus? Is that what your point
of view is? By people who have taken oath of
the constitution, how can they? How can they suppress a
(34:29):
free speech of a constitutional body approved film unless until
they're working for Muslim League or their Pakistani agents? Why
will anybody tell me something? But why would anybody ban
a film on due Holocaust? Did anybody try to ban Oppenheimer?
Did anybody try to ban Rhondon genocide? The Hotel Rhnda?
Did anybody try to Why would any Why may Caro
(34:53):
Muslim genocide peril.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
India?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But Ito him Kashmir Mah Muslim super film Muslim Genocide
India ND Hindu geno side genocide directtions riot Suya Muslim Maria,
but as a retaliation, as a retaliation, the train retaliation
(35:20):
to retaliation Lincoln, Muslim population grow k, Muslims, industry and Mama.
It is being ruled by Muslims today, businesses, our stock market, Bombay,
stop the way all of us look at it. Everything
is being ruled by Indians. That is the perception that
(35:41):
all of us, you and I and that entire country
carries the.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Likin. And that's a strong statement you're making. Joe is
film Musli Pakistani, Pakistani.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Pakistani metaphorically, film logically, academically, if you are intellectual and
academic sitting down or India pure data basis Peka to
Krisco problem Indian partition can step a film. Pakistan mustremely
extremely called for the annihilation of Hindus. Problem that gaza
(36:23):
hind kind of elements Huh. Bengal Tarikar film dialog. That
girl says Mabat, she says Bengal indiaca lighthouse or hey
mattok I film dialog Bengala Bengali Scooby, I am so
(36:46):
proud palace that's the only cuisine in the world which
is seven course mealak is a French cuisine five course meal.
A world anti film, Sara in his seven course me.
So I'm very proud of Bengal. My parents used to live.
They were freedom fighters. They went to jail in from Calcutta.
(37:10):
I love, I love Calcutta. Some look breaker than Calcutta,
Calcutta despite or something I love.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I've studied in Kenri with l Fort Williams. So really
I have one memories maybe happening. I stayed on the ramparts.
So you're absolutely right. That beautiful. So it's a problem genoside.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
There's a Kashmir terrorist groups problem issue k Buki with
political party don't care much but should prevail. Maybe Arata
your leading newspapers right Hamari film car At Juata releasing
today the theater show it. They have refused to print
(37:58):
that ad paid adnel leading newspapers, leading newspaper.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
What is what have you been?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We have to survive here, We'll have trouble. So is
it likely to be fifth? Is it likely to be
released in I will fight my tooth and nail Matt
And I'm that kind of a filmmaker. Conviction, pasay, I'm
conviction or what the what the passions say?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Film?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And we I mean, our conscience is totally clear. Amari
film last trailer filmmaker. And he is holding a Hindu
and Muslim thread and he says, but always were the
people of and that is the intent of the film.
(38:48):
Hum party. But I'm Indian. Indian bol was fa secularist narrative.
But I'm paleto first definitely Tom Bharti who said, yeah
Bharti khn he is a son and daughter of Mabharti. Yeah,
(39:11):
nineteen hundred and five May yeah, yeah, Abindr Nath tagor
Joki Ravina Tago nephew the nineteen hundred and five. He
made this when uh Bengal was divided into Hindu Bengal
and Muslim Bengal. Okay, this is all the knowledge our
(39:31):
spirituality and this is the industry of this thing. And
she this is the only goddess who has two heloes
bud christ maka helos right look at her body. This
u he introduced so they see values into art and
(39:53):
he started a renaissance called Bengali School of Art, the
Bengal School of Art. Oy Helo Ka thought process yeah,
butler a divine moving from ignorance to knowledge from so
much anura knowledge art culture divinejo or kura bajo knowledge
(40:23):
hellos maham is kajo beta betti.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Easily or yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
This is inspired from bunk an mud, which is inspired
from knowledge created world k which is immortal knowledge wojo
knowledge heir concepta is CoA because det unconditionally dirty guy
(40:59):
Zaman hand to mab to Your film was concept by based.
But I was sitting so many stalls hama ganga jovin
aduced to many to nineteen hundred and five met like
in our other ms repeat curtain or not brown Field,
(41:26):
but many ma to or traumatized hogipenhug. What will she say?
This is an artist's interpretation, Marisa many sah destroy kia
(41:52):
j uja molestkya like in my zenda, so that you
reach here to what have you done for me? Such
bold wrong gora. That was the moment I said, I
have to make this film. This is my calling. I'm
just a medium on my such can as a medium.
I have made this film. I got it made through me?
(42:13):
How did I find all these survivors? One hundred year old?
One hundred and two year old Kayou on the interview
Lukos was they died were they were very old? Things
kept happening and today we are here releasing this film.
And why no director ever thought about it? No director
thought about it. So for me, it's merelybody's sacred cheese.
(42:38):
But it's coming out of purity. Yes there's a violence.
It's called art of absence. Art of absence is when
something is absent, then only you understand the value of it,
the woe artistic nuance. I am showing what happens when
humanity is absent. This is what happens, and clearly there
(42:58):
was no humanity.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
But are you saying today we're reaching that situation because
that is something that the Bengal government is taking strong
objection two point one point two. They are then linking
it to politics of the times and elections in Bengal.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
So they're saying, art co a political medium may use.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Do you think I'm an intelligent person or a dumb person?
What do you think? Do I have some logic? Some intelligence?
Talk about intelligence? May under Toma August September mere release
Karuma I should have released in January. Now film your news.
I will release elections for a and the second thing
is India elections, municipality election, whose state co election? Macha right,
(43:47):
we were releasing on fifteenth of August or others.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Trailer release was timed with direct that tenth of August exactly.
That's that's appointidence. I told you now, things are happening
on their own time. The film came, we announced fifteenth August,
but for some reasons it got postponed on to fifth
of September, or trailers you have bes in so timing
(44:12):
as your week if you have September, a beast in
para sixteenth and nothing can be more appropriate than releasing
on direct action day. Direct action Joe Parahy and I'm
sure a lot of our you know, I always know
Chuck review podcast, k Joe May, viewers, Hey, or audience listeners.
(44:32):
They instantly fact check everything, they cross check and they
come back to us, which is something that gives.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Me great pride that you know, we have a very
loyal band of listeners.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
After this podcast, you should check the replies. I'm telling
you a lot of people, I'm going to forward them
to you. A lot of people are going to write.
They will they know about it, their research. Just see
the count action day no no our discussion. Just see
the replies. I'm telling you what people are going to write.
I know it because they are not allowed to speak.
They will write in replies because facts must come out
in public public domain.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I am all for facts coming out in public domain
because unless you learn from history, you're condemned to repeat it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Malak why I say the same politics is going on
in Noakhali. That was the first case of censorship of press.
Noakhali is surrounded by uh backwaters newspapers. So Gulam Sara Hussan,
you actually led the genocide of Hindus. He killed four
(45:32):
hundred Hindus and one night in Rajin Lal roy Chadry's house,
those sub censor Kerdia i kin Co newspaper, Majiagani Co newspaper,
Agony Congress, Indian National Congress Office called bomb Kardia, Blast
Kardia Purah, Censor Oga India makes yukoenoid or just maybe
(45:57):
Kadi is playing somebody whose tongue is burnt. It's come
from there. That was the punishment. Nobody was allowed to
talk about it for ten fifteen days right intensity depending
film Anara thopress. Newspapers are not allowed to put our ads.
(46:19):
Theaters are not allowed to this thing sub officially, it's
not officially in official talido multiplex trailer launched or film
trailer theater. I am the only one who has launched
in a five star hotle because we were not allowed.
As as soon as I landed at the airport, I
was told the theater newspaper light card.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Emergency. That's the problem. So but were you rattled the
kind of your bed and reeve?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, as an instant kill level, but I was inside.
I was very very scared. Is unknown faces an to
these people have come to create nuisance America? Nuisance oak
Kisara or film. That was my first thought and my
(47:31):
second instant thought was what about these girls and women?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
You know to take them? How did she react to you? Later?
Is a brave, very brave person. So don't worry.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I'll take care of myself to you. But somehow Ki,
because I have CRP of security to be got saved
and Upper Kidney journalist Mapo messages after the show, I
can show you they've written to me, Sara, you were
you and the same police is the wire cut with
(48:03):
police protect or order, Lana, How do you then now
intend taking this forward Bengal release, what's your strategy? They've
got geno in a constitution, So again I'll fall back
on constitution or I'll go to the court and I
will definitely appeal to appeal to courtes to protect my rights.
(48:27):
Like in quote to shadow Order, I mean there's nobody
who can stop it. Can other we release? So then
it's a very set commentary on our democracy. Uh then
Matho film Nataronga. But lots of Vivek three's who have
potential and who want to make films related to bold
(48:49):
subjects and strong subjects, they will be disheartened and they
won't make films like that, and we will keep making
these very dumbing down, stupid films which will show a
Lala land, never address the reality.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
You know, since you mentioned Lala and the last couple
of minutes that we have on this part of the show,
Bollywood issues per film.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
But is there aerta kind of a code issues?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
But is that about to profit to profit? Film Ismaga
profet Cuban film like in problem Kaki artists Johanna fearless
artists called He's artists again they have become brand inveastadors.
(49:48):
That's why you see our industry. Yeah, the stars, that's
why you'll see the stars. What do where do you
see the maximum? You will see them in doing events,
in brands and advertising, where rarely you see them doing films.
Tint made film, so they're like, we also make films
and they make all their money from somewhere else. Our
brands don't want any controversy. They want everything like very
(50:12):
very neutralized, sanitized. Why didn't film industry come out on
the streets? Background and India a big problem? Film industry
(50:35):
Look photos, pass beta valley, beta film shooting.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Up, come photographs, search career viewers, the Kumarain generations up to.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
India.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
You look Barber released Chan a cricket match kilt so
that they can get money. Film industry collectively used to
donate to Prime Minister's fund. India a film industry, India
a terrorist attack?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
O you.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
A film industry. Nobody uttered the word Q.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Because hamari film is a correct yes, pine or as
an em social issues by film.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Corruption against film.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Even Amita who played larger than live but all his
films addressed some social evil of the society Amesha or
Hindi film industry is the only film industry in the
entire world which I am so proud of. I can't
tell you and nobody tells this thing which has created
a special genre called social Muslim dramas, Muslim socials, Italy
(52:24):
film Sara Troniki Muslim socials, holl Champion Islamic marginalization, uper.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Film, Muslim.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
HindII Hamari commercial movies and Aha Muslim actors there jaw
Saki s same important film career key. I think most
defining film hero Shi is a manachartakis. Too many montha
(53:02):
in cha poor Indian except to our Muslim, social Hindu
history hindus.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
A film.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
But I really look forward to watching your film. And
you've made the Bengal Files. Viewers will decide on merit
how that film is. But for your passion and your
effort and for joining me here on India Today on
the Chuck Review podcast, so many thanks.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I really like talking to you. Sentimental control Gia. It
is because your eyes have such honest and pure look.
Or my director is honest but wonderful you Maple give
never again they town This is
Speaker 3 (53:55):
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