In this explosive interview on Chakravyuh with Gaurav Sawant, Israeli Ambassador to India Reuven Azar breaks his silence on Israel’s recent strikes, Iran’s nuclear ambitions, and the regional fallout. Has Israel crippled Iran’s nuclear program for years? Why did Iran plan a Hezbollah-Hamas invasion by 2027? Is this the end of Hamas in Gaza? What does Israel think of India and Operation Sindoor? Ambassador Azar speaks bluntly: “We will not go gently into the night.” “Iran used proxies. We took the fight to Tehran.” “Palestinians deserve peace — Hamas is the obstacle.”
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is India Today Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to a special edition of Chuck Review podcast.
I'm God of saventh. The world isn't turmoil. Iran and
Israel at war. The United States has joined in, the
United States has bombed Iran, and ever since the flux
has only just increased.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
And with me to talk about the state of war
and Israel.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Caught in this Chuck Review is Ambassador Reuben Azar, Israel's
ambassador to India.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
So welcome on this special podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you, It's an honor to be with you. Thank
you very much, Sir.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Ambassador Azar was the former Deputy National Security Advisor to
the Foreign Ministry in Israel. He's been the Deputy Ambassador
to the United States of America. He's worked as a
special advisor to Israel's Prime Minister. He's worked on that
special team on the Abraham Accord. He's been a part
of the sanctions committee on Iran. He's a paratrooper. Have
(01:07):
I missed out on anything? I'm sure I've missed out
a lot. But welcome on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you, Thank you girl.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So was Israel able to achieve its aim when Israel
bombed Iran?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And why did the United States have to come in.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We are certainly nearing the end of our mission when
it comes to the military targets that we had. We
removed two main threats on our existence. The first is
the nuclear military threat. We identified in the last few
months that there was a clandestine criminal group of scientists
that were actually assembling a euclear weapon but actually taking
(01:45):
fecile material and trying to put it on a ballistic missile. Okay.
And the second thing is we neutralized is the ballistic
missile program of Iran that we degraded, but the job
is not yet done. There are still many launchers around there.
We've been able to take out more than half of them,
(02:07):
but still we're seeing beverages of missiles being fired Israel
that are causing huge devastation. So these two aims are
the military aims, and we hope that after those are achieved,
we'll be able to renew diplomatic efforts to create renew
stability in our region.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So when we look at the situation right now, the
Trinity that was targeted by the United States of America
as part of Operation mid Night Hammer, along with your
rising Liane, why was for though the most difficult in
your appreciation, Isfahan, Natanz and for Though, for the benefit
of our viewers, explain.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Why they had to be targeted and targeted together.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Nathan's was the main facility in which Iran was enriching uranium.
It had a surface facility in an underground facility that
we targeted. Isfahan was the main version site in which
you convert the fissile material into a metal that is
being used on a nuclear device. And for Though was
(03:09):
less significant in terms of uranium and rich in capacity,
but what it had is the immunity, so called immunity
of the presence in the underground. So for us it
would have been more difficult to tackle that because the
ammunition we have is limited in power. And the fact
(03:30):
that the United States decided to complement our effort with
their own effort is very important because they had the
right weapons needed in order to penetrate more than sixty
meters with their MOAB load that facility and to completely,
(03:50):
if not destroyed, at least to take it into an
unfunctional situations. So these are three of the main elements
of the nuclear military probe, but not only not the
only ones Israel has been targeting. Actually dozens of sites
in which Iran has been conducting this illicit activity.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now, if we were to talk about the mission by
the B two bombers and the gv U fifty seven
munition the MP as you put it up, has that
operation been successful in your appreciation, because whether it's Iran.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Or you know, there are other voices that say that it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Was perfunctory, it may not have achieved its saame.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
What's Israel's assessment.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Well, you know, it's natural that the Iranians, the regime,
will try to downplay it. I think that they haven't
expected the action of Israel and the United States. I
think that miss readers, they didn't take seriously enough our
commitment to the survival of our state, and they thought
(04:57):
that it would be easier for them to continue with
their program because they are immune. Well, they're not immune,
and that's the news. Now. I think that we have
achieved our goal and we have set back the Iranian
military nuclear program for years, and now what is more
important is that we maintain air superiority. It means that
(05:21):
if the Iranians try to assemble a nuclear weapon in
the future, combined with our intelligence capabilities, we'll be able
to neutralize that. So we are a new situation in
our region. After thirty years, the Iranians have been attacking
us directly and indirectly with complete impunity. Finally, in the
last year they are paying the price for their crimes.
(05:41):
And for us, it's not only an issue of payback,
it's an issue of our mayor survival, because the Iranians
not only have sworn to destroy us, but they were
developing the means to do so. And they have said
repeatedly in the past that Israel is a one bomb
country that actually would they would have been able to
destroy us with one nuclear bomb.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So if that is a.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Delay in your appreciation, how much have you delayed their
dream of having the nuclear bomb, or after this strike,
Iran would be more committed that we will make the bomb. Anyway,
are calling for a suspension of ie in their country
and that this time they'll short circuit.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The timelines and have the bomb quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Together. Well, we believe that we have set the bag
for years, because first of all, we have removed the
clandestine group that was dealing with weaponization. So unlike the
uranium enrichment, which is a technology that is not very
difficult to develop and is present not only in many
(06:44):
countries in the world, but also within Iran. They have
many scientists that can reach uranium. The weaponization issue is
much more sensitive. There was a much lesser group of
people that were capable of developing it, and the fact
that we took care of it means that they at
this point cannot develop a nuclear weapon. Now the question
is how much are we going to follow through to
(07:06):
prevent them from reconstituting their effort. Now, God, you have
to take into account that if they have to rebuild
the proxies that we have destroyed that have cost them.
Just for example, they were supplying a billion dollar of
assistance to Hibala every year. Okay, They've built huge amounts
(07:28):
of weapons factories. We have decimated all of that. We
have destroyed their neutral capability nuclear facilities that took them
decades to build and has cost them tens of billions
of dollars. We have taken their military installations. Okay. So
they will have to choose in the future whether they
(07:50):
want to. We know that by the way, they did
all this investment in the malign activities on the account
of the Iranian people. So the Iranian economy is in shambles.
But they will have to decide what to do first.
If they want to reconstitute, they have a lot of
effort to do in order to reconstitute everything. So I
(08:10):
think that that leads you to the conclusion, especially if
they do not cooperate with the international community and they
keep isolated and they continue suffering transanctions, it will be
very hard hard for them to have the economic capability
to reconstitute all these problems.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So your appreciation is they're isolated.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Their appreciation is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
The world stands with them against the bombing that took place.
You've heard comments that have come in from Russia. You've
heard comments that are coming in from China. You've heard
what you and Secretary General Antonio Gutris said, what.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I is saying.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So in all of it, are you Israel isolated or
Israel in America on one side? And now you have
a new access developing where Russia stands with Iran.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Talk is cheap. The question is how you translate different
utterances into an action plan. I think that we don't
see many friends coming to help this radical regime because
even those countries that have been in good contact with
Iran do not like their policies. They do not like
(09:18):
the fact that they are radicalizing population. They are not
content from the fact that they are sowing heavoc into
the region. They are not satisfied from the fact that
Iran has been attacking all these countries in their world
and attacking Israel. So I don't expect that even those
countries that were condemning the operation will come to help
(09:40):
this regime. And they will have to think hard whether
they want to survive or they want to change. And
I hope they decide to change.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
What do you make of leaders like Dimitry Medvedveve saying
there are countries that are willing to provide a nuclear
warhead to Iran.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Again, talk is cheap. Let's see what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Iran is not backing down. Iran says we will continue
to enrich uranium. Iran's oldmod also saying that they'll block
the strait off Hormos.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Now is that going to be a big threat for
the world.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
The war between Israel and Iran will have consequences for
rest of Asia and rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I cannot discard and I don't know what Iran will do.
I think that if they decide to expand this confrontation
after their capabilities were seriously decimated by Israel. They will
stand in very their situation because any country that is
attacked by Iran will retaliate. It might retaliate in ways
(10:45):
that Iranians cannot answer. So again I don't know what
the Iranians will do. I think that for Israel it
is very important to neutralize the threats, to make sure
that Iran is compliant with the demand of the international community,
to verifiable get rid of this clans of weapons of
(11:07):
fans destruction. And whatever Iran decides to do, they will
have to face the consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
But you know, for a moment where your paratroopers had
and not a diplomatic hat.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I want to understand from you, what will Iran do next?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Will Iran continue traget Israel the way it is and
it's now firing its hyperstonic missiles where your iron dome
system or your David's sling or your arrow or the
Thard system, it's breaching all of it and hitting your
city's ashdoor Tel Aviv Hi far repeatedly targeted, or will
it target us interests in the region.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So, as a paratrooper, I will do exactly what the
IDEF is doing is continue decimating the ballistic missile capability
of Iran, to continue targeting the launchers in order to
diminish the thread that you mentioned yourself, because although we
had very good defense, we have very good air defenses,
(12:03):
it's mainly when it comes to bility missiles is mainly
the Aero three and the David thing in our air force.
Some missiles are penetrating and and we have casualties. So
although we've been able to diminish the number of missiles
penetrating because the barriages have been lowering thanks to the
(12:24):
actions of the IDEA, this is an effort that we
have to continue pushing for. So as a soldier, the
first thing that you want to do is to protect
your home front, and you are advancing to the front
in order to defeat the threat. And that's exactly what
Israel is doing. We have our air force over Iran,
(12:46):
we're controlling the skies of Iran, and we're continuing continuing
to take out the missile launchers and the missile copability
of Iran.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Do you still see the hood is as a threat
because systematically, you know, I was in Iran, I was
in Israel covering post seventh of October.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, the terror attack.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
That took place on your country, the massacre that happened,
and subsequently your operations in Lebnon, what was happening in Haifa.
But all through why are your systems, you know, not
able to stop one the incoming missiles despite your best efforts?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Are you lacking?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Have they been able to game your system and come
up better? And how long, in your appreciation, will their
missiles and launchers last?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So, how long does this war last?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, when it comes to the Hooses, we've been able
to foil to intercept more than ninety percent of the
missiles that are coming from there. They are not firing
a large quantity. It's usually you know, one per day
or two per week or three per week. And they
are also launching drones. They have factories, and we have
a challenge because we don't have enough intelligence regarding their facilities.
(13:56):
We've been trying to foil their capability to fire married us.
So far we haven't been successful. But compared with Iran
that has thousands of missiles, the Husi threat is much
lesser the.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Other threat, you know, because systematically so it was Iran
and then the Hamas in south, Hezbolan Huti, the Shia
militi of Iraq. The Asad regime of course now gone.
But where all do you have a thread from in
the region.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, at this point the main threat is coming from
Iran directly because of the ballistic missiles. Iran had a plan.
Actually what happened on the seventh of October, although hees
Noir was inspired by Iran and actually we took out
only two days ago, the man in charge in Iran
(14:47):
of supplying assistance to Hamas the decision to attack us
on the seventh of October. The operational decision, I'm not
sure was coordinated with the Iranian plan of extermination of Israel,
because they Rangians were planning the following. First of all,
to have, as I told you before, the nuclear military
capability of an arsenal of atomic bombs. Second, to have
(15:10):
twenty thousand ballistic missiles that would reign on Israel. But
in parallel to that, what they were planning is to
coordinate an invasion towards Israel itself from the south from
Hamas and from the north from Bala and actually destroyer
state physically.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And what was their timeline in your appreciation by twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yes, so what we've been able to do, We first
of all took care of Hamas. Then we went up north,
we took care of his Bala. By taking care of
his Balad, we actually changed the situation indirectly in Syria
because the Acid regime was no longer supported by his
Bala it fell. This created the situation that for the
(15:56):
first time in history, by the way, after Acid fell,
Israel took a huge air operation to decimate the entire
conventional army of US. That wasn't big in terms of
number of soldiers because that was devastated during the Civil War,
but the arsenal. The Syrian regimes had a huge arsenal
(16:18):
of conventional weapons supplied by the former Soviet Union and
then by Russia, and they had thousands of tanks, dozens
of planes, hundreds of missiles, huge stockpiles. We took care
of that, the missile batteries in particular, So that created
the path that we needed in order to deal directly
(16:40):
with the Iranian threat. So we started back in April
and October when the Iranians fired us these huge beriages
of ballistic missiles. But the Rngeans thought that we aren't
capable reaching to them all the way, and they tried
to protect themselves from a future is Really strike by
sticking out to this nuclear weapon that we have given
(17:02):
them the immunity. So we follow the entire irnge and
plan of extermination of Israel. We took out the ring
of fire, and finally we were able to target Iran itself.
And they were so com you know, they were thinking
that they are completely immune. They didn't build any shelters
in Tehran for example. Okay, they thought that these proxy
(17:22):
armies are going to defend them from Israel.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
But if I look at it from the Iranian perspective,
they're thinking, is they're a country which is a seven
thousand year old civilization, and that seven thousand year old
civilization was living in peace. Yes, you'll say that Hisbela
was a proxy, Hamas was a proxy, and they were
shielding Hamas against Israel, and they wanted to call for
(17:49):
destruction of Israel completely. But then they didn't build shelters
the way Israel did. And Israel has attacked not just
a peaceful country. Is is now trying to enforce a change.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, but Iran was the peaceful country look, Iran was
a peaceful country before the Islamic Revolution. After the Islamic Revolution,
what happened is that the radical regime adopted policies that
were never adopted by any Iranian government before. We have
(18:22):
a friendly relationship with Iranian people the Jews, that goes
back two thousand and five hundred years when Cyrus the
Great emancipated our people and allowed us to get back
to Jerusalem from the Babylonia and exile and build our temple.
So we had great relations with Iranian people before nineteen
seventy nine. Actually, is Ready companies built a lot of
(18:44):
infrastructure that you see today in Tehran. So the change
was when Iran became from a peaceful country to a
hostile country to aggressive country, a country that had a
clock in the middle of Tehran County down the existence
of the state of Israel. Can you imagine that it's unconceivable.
(19:05):
People sometimes find it hard to understand why Iran would
like to destroy Israel. Aren't is Rady just telling stories? Now?
We are not because Iran was using Israel as a
tool to get hegemony in the Arab and the Islamic world.
There is a much larger conflict and much older conflict
(19:27):
in our region that is more important than the conflict
with Israel. That's the conflict between Sunna and Shia, between
the that are regarded in their own eyes as the
true descendants of the prophet because they supported the family
of the project of the prophet and the soon is
(19:49):
that inherited the leadership, the military leadership around the prophet. Okay.
So this fight has been going on for centuries and
what the site radical regime was trying to achieve is
to take Jerusalem as a conduit to take mechaan Medina
and to become first of all the predominant Muslim force
(20:13):
the Caliphate, the true Caliphate, to restore the Caliphate okay,
and become the true force in the Islamic world in
order to then confront the West. Okay. This is their plan.
This is not something I'm imagining. This is something that
they plan so.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
That they declared that they want to do in that
have you been is.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
This operation which is apart from destroying the nuclear capabilities
and the missile force and the launchers, also to enforce
a regime change, because not only is you know Prime
Minister Benjamin Nathania who indicating that your Defense minister is well.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Cats has indicated that, and.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
American President Donald Trump seems to have indicated that a
regime change operations.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I want to make it very clear because there is
confusion regarding that. As much as we would like to
see a regime change in Iran, we don't have an
operational plan to change the regime in Iran. We don't
see this as our role. We see as a row
of the Iranian people.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And that's why the bombing of the gates of the
prison where you have political prisoners.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yes, because we identify the Iranian people. This is a
symbolic action. We are not trying to Iran to liberate
it with our ground forces, but we are signating to
the Iranian people that you are with them. This is
a symbolism, a symbolic a symbolic gesture that we've done.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But do you think people of Iran are going to
rise against the Ayatola Humane's regime because their impression is
so what you've killed maybe ten generals and twenty IRGC
commanders and some politically and some other intelligence officials.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
The regime is strong, it's well entrenched.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It's been there for over five decades and they will
withstand this. I mean, they won't fold the way there
was a regime change in Iraq, because that time you
had one hundred plus one hundred thousand plus ground forces.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
There are no ground forces here.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, the Solid Union collapse without one soldier. Look, I
don't envy the Iranian people. They have a huge task
ahead of them, and it's very difficult to rise up
against such an oppressive machine. Okay, according to my estimations.
You know, I've been following Iran for many years. There
are at least a million people in Iran the besiege that
(22:24):
are getting salaries from the government, and they are willing
to kill yes, Iranians in order to survive as a regime.
It's very difficult to overcome that. But as much as
the Iranian regime becomes dysfunctional, I think it will give
maybe the fuel for the Iranian people to rise up.
(22:45):
But it's completely up to them. We have to hope
for we have to pray for them, we have to hope,
and I really wish the Iranian people the best. I
think that it would be great for them and for
the region if Iran would be come the great civilization
that you mentioned again of seven thousand years, a proud
civilization that would rise in order to build their own
(23:08):
country and not to destroy other countries.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Your operation, would you say it's thirty.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Five percent successful as on date, fifty percent successful?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
More successful or less in your appreciation so far whatever
you've been.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Able to achieve. Look, I'm not a military expert, so
I won't give an answer in percents. We know that
we have set back the new clear military program for
many years.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Many no, two years, three years, five years.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It's difficult to It depends mainly on our will to
sustain our policy of prevention, okay, and to what extent
the Iranians are going to be able to constitute this
despite the will of the international community. I don't know
exactly the answer. I think it's years. I don't know
(23:54):
exactly how many years. It depends on us on whether
we are going to have will to prevent that from happening.
But in addition to that, we've been able to degrade
substantially the ballistic missile program and we've been able to
hit a lot of launchers. As I told you, this
is an effort that has to continue. We haven't finished that,
(24:14):
and I'm sure that when we achieve the military goals,
we will stop. Because this is what our cabinet has decided.
And you know, we have a democratically elected government that
is elected not to protect Israel and not to protect
the interests of other peoples. And therefore for us, it's
very important to neutralize the military threat and then to stop.
(24:35):
Our people had enough. Our people have been suffering thirty
years from Iranian aggression. Our people are twenty months now
into a war that has demanded from them so much.
You know, families have been sending their men and their
women to the army. Mothers and fathers have been staying
(24:55):
behind to take care of the children in the last
ten days. Is right? Is are you know, practically going
in and out of shelters all the time. Our economy
needs to go back to function. So we have an
interest to stop this as soon as possible. We are
not a nation that likes wars, where an action that
(25:16):
likes peace. Where you have made peace. We have made
peace with our neighbors, with six of them. We want
to make peace with more neighbors, but we want stand
idly by. Look, our people have suffered an extermination attempt
by the Nazis eighty years ago and a third of
(25:38):
our people have been exterminated by the Nazi malign machine.
We will not go gently into the night. We will
not accept a situation in which a country that sworns
to destroy us acquires the means to do so. And
we're going to act every time that we see that
(25:59):
such a country wants to destroy us, it tries to
acquire such a weapon. We have a doctrine. It started
back with Menahem Begging in eighty one when we took
out the Iraqi reactor and went on two thousand and
seven under Olmert's government and removed their Cerim reactor. With Irani,
it was much more complicated because first of all, it
(26:22):
wasn't just in one site as I told you, there
was dozens of sites. And also it was much further away.
So this created a huge challenge, a challenge in which
we had to invest billions and billions of dollars. This
is a burden on our economy. So although our economy
is strong thanks to the reforms that have been happening
(26:44):
in the last few years, this is too much. We
want to go back to build our economy, but this is.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Is there an apprehension as the field. This could be
a forever war.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know, the war that started with that October seven
attack is still on.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
This would expand a forever war, a forever attack of
Iran coming from Iran. You know, they started in the nineties.
But we're trying to promote peace and make peace with
the Palestinians in the Iranians started to support Hamas and
the suicide bombings, and they derailed the peace process time
and again. The Iranians have been doing damage to our
(27:23):
region and to us for many, many years. We want
to end this war and we hope that finally when
the Irangans see that they are not immune anymore, that
they will suffer the consequences to the extent that the
regime will be put in danger, then maybe there is
a chance that things will change, and we hope things
will change.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So this bombing that's on, and that's bombing that's on
even today, is with the aim that the regime will
come back to the negotiations stable, what do you want
to negotiate with Iran? Because we wanted to achieve three things.
We cannot talk when bombs are falling, So.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Will they want to achieve We want to achieve three things.
First of all, a verifiable way of making sure that
Iran no longer can have military nuclear capability.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
But they can enrich uranium for civilian purposes.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
We don't think that we can trust the Iranians with
enriching uranium. They don't deserve that. They've been cheating the
NPT for thirty years and they have lost their right
for enrichment. Okay. Number two, we want a commitment, a
very fiable commitment, that a ballistic missile program will disappear
from Iran and they won't be able to assemble ballistic missiles.
(28:32):
The third, we want a commitment, a very fiable commitment,
that Iran will stop this proxy war against Israel. This
is what we want, and.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Iran agree to any of this.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Iran is because I'm an independent country, I will enrich uranium,
and which is what they continue to say.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
You can continue being independent, but if you try to
destroy other countries, then you will suffer the consequences.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And they'll say, why should we give up a ballistic
missile program. It's required for our security. They will say,
why should we give up you know, having a strong
armed forces.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
There are many countries in the world that have developed
nuclear capability for peaceful purposes. There are many countries that
have developed missiles, but you know what's the difference. These
countries haven't been swearing to destroy other countries and actively
engaging in doing so. So on any security threat, you
(29:27):
have two basic elements, intentions and capabilities. The Iranians can
either give up their intentions to destroy us or give
up their cropabilities. They have to decide or your operations continue.
Where do you see Turkey in all of this?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know, because you spoke of Iran wanting to emerge
as the Caliphate, but you know Ardohan also it seems
one wants to appear as the new Automan Empire and
the caliphate. So where do you see Turkey's role in
all of these operations in the region.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Well, they haven't been involved in any operations that have
to do with Iran. In the past, they have been
harboring some of the efforts of the Iranians to circumvent sanctions.
We saw that with a lot of severity, and we've
been working to try to stop that. Generally speaking, you know,
Turkey has been a great partner of Israel throughout the years.
(30:21):
They are an important economic partner of Israel, and the
fact that Erdogan decided to pursue this kind of Muslim
brotherhood supporting the Automan policies. I don't think it's I
don't think it's working for the interest of any of
the countries around Turkey.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But wouldn't that emerge as a threat or is it
already emerging as a threat for you know, Israel, because
it's already a threat for India. The manner in which
Turkey supported Pakistan, and you talk so much about the
way Iran is sworn to destruction of Israel, it's almost
similar to Pakistan with a nuclear weapon being on to
destruction of India, the way Pakistan has been operating, and
(31:03):
Pakistan is claiming to be Okay, come to Pakistan in.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Just a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But your point on Turkey first, crab, We are not
looking for enemies. We've been actually engaging in the last
few months in a mechanism to deconflict militarily from the
Turks because we don't want to create military collision, especially
in the context of Syria. Okay, so we will continue
these efforts. We don't have any interest whatsoever in fighting Turkey.
(31:30):
On the contrary, we want to cooperate with Turkey. We
hope that Turkey will adopt more sensible policies.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
How do you see Pakistan in all of this?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You know, Pakistan in a different context wants to recommend
Donald Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize and then goes
and stands with Iran that's sworn to Israel's destruction.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Well, we are not part of the Pakistani Indian conflict.
We are, of course following with concern the fact that
Pakistan is harboring tourist organizations, thing that I think the
entire world should cooperate in order to in order to
deal with. And but we haven't seen the pakistanis doing
(32:09):
what the Iranians have been doing, you know, sending assistance
to terrorist organizations in our region, trying to build a
ring of fire around us. We haven't seen that. So,
as I said, we are not looking for enemies.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay, but you know, since you talk about what's happening
in your region, is Israel still standing by the two
nation theory, you know concept or a solution an independent
Palestine living in harmony next to Israel and not targeting
your people like the way Hamas did.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
We don't have an interest to control the daily lives
of Palestinians outside Israel. What we like to do is
to promote a self Palestinian rule that will not threaten Israel.
So we are ready to give the Palestinians the maximum
authority to control themselves without threatening us.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
But no Haamas, No Haamas in the Gaza Strip, for example.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Because Hamas is completely committed to destroy the state of Israel.
So of course that we wouldn't agree. Look, we have
been in a situation which after we drew completely from
the Galla Striy with the hope that something positive will emerge.
That okay, we've taken out all the settlements from there,
(33:31):
even the graveyards we took out. We left their nurseries
means to make a living. What Hamas did a few
months after we left, they completely destroyed the nurseries. They
engaged in creating a war machine against us. And for
years we tried to avoid from going back to the
(33:52):
gad Stry. We have zero interest of controlling the Gadstry,
but we were left with no choice when they committed
this terrible atrocity against us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So what happens now, because now Donald Trump says he
wants to build a rivera.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
There, and so now Israel will have to stay there
until Hamas is removed. We will have to contemplate new
forces coming up, more moderate forces that will engage in
de radicalization of the population in Gaza, that will engage
in construction that we distance itself from terrorism, will distance
(34:29):
itself from attacking the state of Israel. In that context,
we can create a much better future for us and
for our Palestine neighbors.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Is there a time frame for that?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think it depends completely on the willingness of the
Palestine people. If they continue supporting Hamas and harboring them,
and if Hamas manages to take control, to take a
grip on the population, then it's going to be harder.
That's why Israel has been, for example, not only taking
more territory of Gaza and cleaning it up from the
terrorist infrastrus, but also we've been taking control of the
(35:02):
humanitarian assistance because what Hamas was doing is sequestrating the
humanitarian assistance and then selling it to the population, and
that way they were keeping a grip on power. So
now we are changing that. We are supplying the Palestinians
systems in different ways through the GHF, the humanitarian group
(35:25):
that the NGO that is giving assistance to meals to
the Palestinians through direct supply to bakeries, through un bodies,
et cetera. And we are doing the best that we
can in order to get Hamas to be less influential
on the daily lives of Palestinians. Unfortunately, as you know,
they've been hiding behind civilians. They are you know, taking
(35:48):
off their uniform and blending themselves in the population. They
are using schools and masks and other installations in order
to in order to continue their operations. So this is
a systematic effort that is slowly advancing. We are now
controlling more than half of the of the Gaza strip.
We've been bringing back our hostages in deals. Sorry, we've
(36:12):
been able to recover two hundred hostages. Out of the
two hundred and fifty, we still have fifty left out
of them, about twenty alive. Only yesterday we've been able
to recover three bodies of the Israelis that were murdered
by Hamas on the seventh October. So this is a
continuing effort, but we are determined God we will not
(36:34):
allow Hamas to resume power in the Gaza Strip. This
will not happen. Even if we sign a temper, another
temporis fired to bring back more hostages. We are not
going to give in to the demand of Hamas to
allow them to re arm and regoop. This will not happen.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So reconstruction will take some more time till the time
Hamas is removed entirely from.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Who will come Who will come to Gaza to do
any reconstruct and when you have a terrorist organization controlling them.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Civil war in the Gaza Strip virtually a forever war.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And Iran Now, first of all, it's not forever when
it comes to Iran. As I told you, we will
continue only until we finish the job. When it comes
to neutralizing the these threats of nuclear and ballistic uh,
the war can end very fast. When it comes to Gaza,
the war can end today if Hamas renounces power. If
(37:28):
it doesn't renounce his power, this airport can continue for months,
but it won't be forever.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
What role can countries like Russia play because Russia is
seen as someone uh, you know, who's interacting directly with
the regime in Iran and also with Benjamin Yahu.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
The premise, well, we we have engaged with the Russian
so I personally participated in some of the meetings and
the trips that premierster An had with President put In.
We have a lot of in common with the Russian.
We have a common heritage when it comes to fighting Nazism.
We have a huge constituency in Israel that is Russian speaking,
(38:09):
and we have a common culture. And you know, I
think that we believe President Putting when it says that
he cares about the security of Israel. And that's why
we've been working out many methods to, let's say, bring
(38:32):
down the flames in our region. We created the mechanism
for them with them, for example, to deconflict the situation
in Syria when their navy and air force was in Syria.
We can maybe work out with them a way out
of this crisis. With Iran together with the Americas.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Are the any indications we'll.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
See The diplomacy, you know, usually since to work successfully
when it is being done behind closed doors, so we'll
have to give it some time. I think that the
United States, together with Israel and other countries, will do
the effort that they need to try to de escalate
(39:10):
the situation. Once this threat was neutralized, and we hope
that stability can be restored.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
You don't think Iran is going to get more aggressive
in the times to come when it says suspend the parliament.
The much less has talked about suspending the I A e. A.
They're very unhappy with the United Nations.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
They seeking you know.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That they are very unhappy because they didn't expect what
we did to them. The question is what is the
capability to go through with your intentions? So I think
at the end of the day, people have to match
their actions and their intentions of the capabilities they have. Therefore,
(39:57):
I'm optimistic that we can de escalate the situation and
we can get a diplomatic solution.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Where do you see India and Israel's friendship with India
in all of this.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, India is a great partner of Israel. We have
a lot of trust between us. We've built distrusts in
decades of defense corporation, We've built distrust in decades of
agricultural cooperation. We have a lot in common. I think
both nations are very old peoples that have very young
countries with a lot of challenges of development that we
(40:32):
can actually engage in solving, sorting out together. And we
also have a history of oppression and devastation that came
from foreign forces that came and actually took our freedom
from us. And the fact that now we are assuming
(40:53):
our role, we are taking back our freedom, we are
building our country. This is a very very important ethos
that we have in common. Garth. So I see despite
the differences in size, naturally, you know, we are only
a nation of ten million people and we are one
hundred and fifty times smaller than India, But when it
(41:15):
comes to the ethos of building our nation, when it
comes to the challenges of fighting radicalism, we stand together.
And I know that India will have a huge role
in promoting stability in Norwegion because as much as you grow,
and your economy is growing very fast, and as much
(41:37):
as you sign trade deals with other major countries, the
major economies in the world, you will need more this connectivity.
You know, the countries in Norwegion can provide that connect
India with Europe, with the West. We can engage in
projects of energy, of communications, of technology, transportation, and this
(42:05):
is just the beginning. I'm really not only hopeful but
optimistic because we know what we can do because our
countries are countries that are convinced now in the capability
that we have in order to improve our lives. We
have proved it. You have proved it. We have proved it,
(42:26):
and we can do it together in a much better way.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
And your reading of India's actions during operations sindur because
that's also debated very extensively. But as somebody who's observed
it and as a soldier, as a diplomat, how do
you view that.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I saw a nation rising up to try to change
the equation. We don't surrender to terrorism, and you don't
surrender to terrorism.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
And the policy of mowing the alone. You know that
that I heard of in Israel is that that's constantly required.
You need to constantly fight terror. We need to constantly
fight terror. Is that the only way to move forward?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Look, there are many ways, and the situations are not
necessarily similar. I don't want to get into the details
because I'm not an expert when it comes to your
security situation, your set of considerations. I trust the Government
of India to make the right moves for the interests
of the Indian people.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
So it was a wonderful conversation that I had with you,
and you know, we can go on and on, and
I hope we do. You know, as this situation continues
to develop towards a more peaceful and a prosperous relationship between.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Your country and as many thanks for joining me here.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you girl, The Chuck Review Podcast, thank you very much.
This is India Today Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to a special edition of Chuck Review podcast.
I'm God of saventh. The world isn't turmoil. Iran and
Israel at war. The United States has joined in, the
United States has bombed Iran, and ever since the flux
has only just increased.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
And with me to talk about the state of war
and Israel.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Caught in this Chuck Review is Ambassador Reuben Azar, Israel's
ambassador to India.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
So welcome on this special podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you, It's an honor to be with you. Thank
you very much, Sir.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Ambassador Azar was the former Deputy National Security Advisor to
the Foreign Ministry in Israel. He's been the Deputy Ambassador
to the United States of America. He's worked as a
special advisor to Israel's Prime Minister. He's worked on that
special team on the Abraham Accord. He's been a part
of the sanctions committee on Iran. He's a paratrooper. Have
(01:07):
I missed out on anything? I'm sure I've missed out
a lot. But welcome on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you, Thank you girl.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So was Israel able to achieve its aim when Israel
bombed Iran?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And why did the United States have to come in.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We are certainly nearing the end of our mission when
it comes to the military targets that we had. We
removed two main threats on our existence. The first is
the nuclear military threat. We identified in the last few
months that there was a clandestine criminal group of scientists
that were actually assembling a euclear weapon but actually taking
(01:45):
fecile material and trying to put it on a ballistic missile. Okay.
And the second thing is we neutralized is the ballistic
missile program of Iran that we degraded, but the job
is not yet done. There are still many launchers around there.
We've been able to take out more than half of them,
(02:07):
but still we're seeing beverages of missiles being fired Israel
that are causing huge devastation. So these two aims are
the military aims, and we hope that after those are achieved,
we'll be able to renew diplomatic efforts to create renew
stability in our region.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So when we look at the situation right now, the
Trinity that was targeted by the United States of America
as part of Operation mid Night Hammer, along with your
rising Liane, why was for though the most difficult in
your appreciation, Isfahan, Natanz and for Though, for the benefit
of our viewers, explain.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Why they had to be targeted and targeted together.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Nathan's was the main facility in which Iran was enriching uranium.
It had a surface facility in an underground facility that
we targeted. Isfahan was the main version site in which
you convert the fissile material into a metal that is
being used on a nuclear device. And for Though was
(03:09):
less significant in terms of uranium and rich in capacity,
but what it had is the immunity, so called immunity
of the presence in the underground. So for us it
would have been more difficult to tackle that because the
ammunition we have is limited in power. And the fact
(03:30):
that the United States decided to complement our effort with
their own effort is very important because they had the
right weapons needed in order to penetrate more than sixty
meters with their MOAB load that facility and to completely,
(03:50):
if not destroyed, at least to take it into an
unfunctional situations. So these are three of the main elements
of the nuclear military probe, but not only not the
only ones Israel has been targeting. Actually dozens of sites
in which Iran has been conducting this illicit activity.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now, if we were to talk about the mission by
the B two bombers and the gv U fifty seven
munition the MP as you put it up, has that
operation been successful in your appreciation, because whether it's Iran.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Or you know, there are other voices that say that it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Was perfunctory, it may not have achieved its saame.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
What's Israel's assessment.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Well, you know, it's natural that the Iranians, the regime,
will try to downplay it. I think that they haven't
expected the action of Israel and the United States. I
think that miss readers, they didn't take seriously enough our
commitment to the survival of our state, and they thought
(04:57):
that it would be easier for them to continue with
their program because they are immune. Well, they're not immune,
and that's the news. Now. I think that we have
achieved our goal and we have set back the Iranian
military nuclear program for years, and now what is more
important is that we maintain air superiority. It means that
(05:21):
if the Iranians try to assemble a nuclear weapon in
the future, combined with our intelligence capabilities, we'll be able
to neutralize that. So we are a new situation in
our region. After thirty years, the Iranians have been attacking
us directly and indirectly with complete impunity. Finally, in the
last year they are paying the price for their crimes.
(05:41):
And for us, it's not only an issue of payback,
it's an issue of our mayor survival, because the Iranians
not only have sworn to destroy us, but they were
developing the means to do so. And they have said
repeatedly in the past that Israel is a one bomb
country that actually would they would have been able to
destroy us with one nuclear bomb.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So if that is a.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Delay in your appreciation, how much have you delayed their
dream of having the nuclear bomb, or after this strike,
Iran would be more committed that we will make the bomb. Anyway,
are calling for a suspension of ie in their country
and that this time they'll short circuit.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The timelines and have the bomb quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Together. Well, we believe that we have set the bag
for years, because first of all, we have removed the
clandestine group that was dealing with weaponization. So unlike the
uranium enrichment, which is a technology that is not very
difficult to develop and is present not only in many
(06:44):
countries in the world, but also within Iran. They have
many scientists that can reach uranium. The weaponization issue is
much more sensitive. There was a much lesser group of
people that were capable of developing it, and the fact
that we took care of it means that they at
this point cannot develop a nuclear weapon. Now the question
is how much are we going to follow through to
(07:06):
prevent them from reconstituting their effort. Now, God, you have
to take into account that if they have to rebuild
the proxies that we have destroyed that have cost them.
Just for example, they were supplying a billion dollar of
assistance to Hibala every year. Okay, They've built huge amounts
(07:28):
of weapons factories. We have decimated all of that. We
have destroyed their neutral capability nuclear facilities that took them
decades to build and has cost them tens of billions
of dollars. We have taken their military installations. Okay. So
they will have to choose in the future whether they
(07:50):
want to. We know that by the way, they did
all this investment in the malign activities on the account
of the Iranian people. So the Iranian economy is in shambles.
But they will have to decide what to do first.
If they want to reconstitute, they have a lot of
effort to do in order to reconstitute everything. So I
(08:10):
think that that leads you to the conclusion, especially if
they do not cooperate with the international community and they
keep isolated and they continue suffering transanctions, it will be
very hard hard for them to have the economic capability
to reconstitute all these problems.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So your appreciation is they're isolated.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Their appreciation is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
The world stands with them against the bombing that took place.
You've heard comments that have come in from Russia. You've
heard comments that are coming in from China. You've heard
what you and Secretary General Antonio Gutris said, what.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I is saying.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So in all of it, are you Israel isolated or
Israel in America on one side? And now you have
a new access developing where Russia stands with Iran.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Talk is cheap. The question is how you translate different
utterances into an action plan. I think that we don't
see many friends coming to help this radical regime because
even those countries that have been in good contact with
Iran do not like their policies. They do not like
(09:18):
the fact that they are radicalizing population. They are not
content from the fact that they are sowing heavoc into
the region. They are not satisfied from the fact that
Iran has been attacking all these countries in their world
and attacking Israel. So I don't expect that even those
countries that were condemning the operation will come to help
(09:40):
this regime. And they will have to think hard whether
they want to survive or they want to change. And
I hope they decide to change.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
What do you make of leaders like Dimitry Medvedveve saying
there are countries that are willing to provide a nuclear
warhead to Iran.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Again, talk is cheap. Let's see what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Iran is not backing down. Iran says we will continue
to enrich uranium. Iran's oldmod also saying that they'll block
the strait off Hormos.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Now is that going to be a big threat for
the world.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
The war between Israel and Iran will have consequences for
rest of Asia and rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I cannot discard and I don't know what Iran will do.
I think that if they decide to expand this confrontation
after their capabilities were seriously decimated by Israel. They will
stand in very their situation because any country that is
attacked by Iran will retaliate. It might retaliate in ways
(10:45):
that Iranians cannot answer. So again I don't know what
the Iranians will do. I think that for Israel it
is very important to neutralize the threats, to make sure
that Iran is compliant with the demand of the international community,
to verifiable get rid of this clans of weapons of
(11:07):
fans destruction. And whatever Iran decides to do, they will
have to face the consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
But you know, for a moment where your paratroopers had
and not a diplomatic hat.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I want to understand from you, what will Iran do next?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Will Iran continue traget Israel the way it is and
it's now firing its hyperstonic missiles where your iron dome
system or your David's sling or your arrow or the
Thard system, it's breaching all of it and hitting your
city's ashdoor Tel Aviv Hi far repeatedly targeted, or will
it target us interests in the region.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So, as a paratrooper, I will do exactly what the
IDEF is doing is continue decimating the ballistic missile capability
of Iran, to continue targeting the launchers in order to
diminish the thread that you mentioned yourself, because although we
had very good defense, we have very good air defenses,
(12:03):
it's mainly when it comes to bility missiles is mainly
the Aero three and the David thing in our air force.
Some missiles are penetrating and and we have casualties. So
although we've been able to diminish the number of missiles
penetrating because the barriages have been lowering thanks to the
(12:24):
actions of the IDEA, this is an effort that we
have to continue pushing for. So as a soldier, the
first thing that you want to do is to protect
your home front, and you are advancing to the front
in order to defeat the threat. And that's exactly what
Israel is doing. We have our air force over Iran,
(12:46):
we're controlling the skies of Iran, and we're continuing continuing
to take out the missile launchers and the missile copability
of Iran.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Do you still see the hood is as a threat
because systematically, you know, I was in Iran, I was
in Israel covering post seventh of October.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, the terror attack.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
That took place on your country, the massacre that happened,
and subsequently your operations in Lebnon, what was happening in Haifa.
But all through why are your systems, you know, not
able to stop one the incoming missiles despite your best efforts?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Are you lacking?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Have they been able to game your system and come
up better? And how long, in your appreciation, will their
missiles and launchers last?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So, how long does this war last?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, when it comes to the Hooses, we've been able
to foil to intercept more than ninety percent of the
missiles that are coming from there. They are not firing
a large quantity. It's usually you know, one per day
or two per week or three per week. And they
are also launching drones. They have factories, and we have
a challenge because we don't have enough intelligence regarding their facilities.
(13:56):
We've been trying to foil their capability to fire married us.
So far we haven't been successful. But compared with Iran
that has thousands of missiles, the Husi threat is much
lesser the.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Other threat, you know, because systematically so it was Iran
and then the Hamas in south, Hezbolan Huti, the Shia
militi of Iraq. The Asad regime of course now gone.
But where all do you have a thread from in
the region.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, at this point the main threat is coming from
Iran directly because of the ballistic missiles. Iran had a plan.
Actually what happened on the seventh of October, although hees
Noir was inspired by Iran and actually we took out
only two days ago, the man in charge in Iran
(14:47):
of supplying assistance to Hamas the decision to attack us
on the seventh of October. The operational decision, I'm not
sure was coordinated with the Iranian plan of extermination of Israel,
because they Rangians were planning the following. First of all,
to have, as I told you before, the nuclear military
capability of an arsenal of atomic bombs. Second, to have
(15:10):
twenty thousand ballistic missiles that would reign on Israel. But
in parallel to that, what they were planning is to
coordinate an invasion towards Israel itself from the south from
Hamas and from the north from Bala and actually destroyer
state physically.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And what was their timeline in your appreciation by twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yes, so what we've been able to do, We first
of all took care of Hamas. Then we went up north,
we took care of his Bala. By taking care of
his Balad, we actually changed the situation indirectly in Syria
because the Acid regime was no longer supported by his
Bala it fell. This created the situation that for the
(15:56):
first time in history, by the way, after Acid fell,
Israel took a huge air operation to decimate the entire
conventional army of US. That wasn't big in terms of
number of soldiers because that was devastated during the Civil War,
but the arsenal. The Syrian regimes had a huge arsenal
(16:18):
of conventional weapons supplied by the former Soviet Union and
then by Russia, and they had thousands of tanks, dozens
of planes, hundreds of missiles, huge stockpiles. We took care
of that, the missile batteries in particular, So that created
the path that we needed in order to deal directly
(16:40):
with the Iranian threat. So we started back in April
and October when the Iranians fired us these huge beriages
of ballistic missiles. But the Rngeans thought that we aren't
capable reaching to them all the way, and they tried
to protect themselves from a future is Really strike by
sticking out to this nuclear weapon that we have given
(17:02):
them the immunity. So we follow the entire irnge and
plan of extermination of Israel. We took out the ring
of fire, and finally we were able to target Iran itself.
And they were so com you know, they were thinking
that they are completely immune. They didn't build any shelters
in Tehran for example. Okay, they thought that these proxy
(17:22):
armies are going to defend them from Israel.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
But if I look at it from the Iranian perspective,
they're thinking, is they're a country which is a seven
thousand year old civilization, and that seven thousand year old
civilization was living in peace. Yes, you'll say that Hisbela
was a proxy, Hamas was a proxy, and they were
shielding Hamas against Israel, and they wanted to call for
(17:49):
destruction of Israel completely. But then they didn't build shelters
the way Israel did. And Israel has attacked not just
a peaceful country. Is is now trying to enforce a change.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, but Iran was the peaceful country look, Iran was
a peaceful country before the Islamic Revolution. After the Islamic Revolution,
what happened is that the radical regime adopted policies that
were never adopted by any Iranian government before. We have
(18:22):
a friendly relationship with Iranian people the Jews, that goes
back two thousand and five hundred years when Cyrus the
Great emancipated our people and allowed us to get back
to Jerusalem from the Babylonia and exile and build our temple.
So we had great relations with Iranian people before nineteen
seventy nine. Actually, is Ready companies built a lot of
(18:44):
infrastructure that you see today in Tehran. So the change
was when Iran became from a peaceful country to a
hostile country to aggressive country, a country that had a
clock in the middle of Tehran County down the existence
of the state of Israel. Can you imagine that it's unconceivable.
(19:05):
People sometimes find it hard to understand why Iran would
like to destroy Israel. Aren't is Rady just telling stories? Now?
We are not because Iran was using Israel as a
tool to get hegemony in the Arab and the Islamic world.
There is a much larger conflict and much older conflict
(19:27):
in our region that is more important than the conflict
with Israel. That's the conflict between Sunna and Shia, between
the that are regarded in their own eyes as the
true descendants of the prophet because they supported the family
of the project of the prophet and the soon is
(19:49):
that inherited the leadership, the military leadership around the prophet. Okay.
So this fight has been going on for centuries and
what the site radical regime was trying to achieve is
to take Jerusalem as a conduit to take mechaan Medina
and to become first of all the predominant Muslim force
(20:13):
the Caliphate, the true Caliphate, to restore the Caliphate okay,
and become the true force in the Islamic world in
order to then confront the West. Okay. This is their plan.
This is not something I'm imagining. This is something that
they plan so.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
That they declared that they want to do in that
have you been is.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
This operation which is apart from destroying the nuclear capabilities
and the missile force and the launchers, also to enforce
a regime change, because not only is you know Prime
Minister Benjamin Nathania who indicating that your Defense minister is well.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Cats has indicated that, and.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
American President Donald Trump seems to have indicated that a
regime change operations.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I want to make it very clear because there is
confusion regarding that. As much as we would like to
see a regime change in Iran, we don't have an
operational plan to change the regime in Iran. We don't
see this as our role. We see as a row
of the Iranian people.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And that's why the bombing of the gates of the
prison where you have political prisoners.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yes, because we identify the Iranian people. This is a
symbolic action. We are not trying to Iran to liberate
it with our ground forces, but we are signating to
the Iranian people that you are with them. This is
a symbolism, a symbolic a symbolic gesture that we've done.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But do you think people of Iran are going to
rise against the Ayatola Humane's regime because their impression is
so what you've killed maybe ten generals and twenty IRGC
commanders and some politically and some other intelligence officials.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
The regime is strong, it's well entrenched.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It's been there for over five decades and they will
withstand this. I mean, they won't fold the way there
was a regime change in Iraq, because that time you
had one hundred plus one hundred thousand plus ground forces.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
There are no ground forces here.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, the Solid Union collapse without one soldier. Look, I
don't envy the Iranian people. They have a huge task
ahead of them, and it's very difficult to rise up
against such an oppressive machine. Okay, according to my estimations.
You know, I've been following Iran for many years. There
are at least a million people in Iran the besiege that
(22:24):
are getting salaries from the government, and they are willing
to kill yes, Iranians in order to survive as a regime.
It's very difficult to overcome that. But as much as
the Iranian regime becomes dysfunctional, I think it will give
maybe the fuel for the Iranian people to rise up.
(22:45):
But it's completely up to them. We have to hope
for we have to pray for them, we have to hope,
and I really wish the Iranian people the best. I
think that it would be great for them and for
the region if Iran would be come the great civilization
that you mentioned again of seven thousand years, a proud
civilization that would rise in order to build their own
(23:08):
country and not to destroy other countries.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Your operation, would you say it's thirty.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Five percent successful as on date, fifty percent successful?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
More successful or less in your appreciation so far whatever
you've been.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Able to achieve. Look, I'm not a military expert, so
I won't give an answer in percents. We know that
we have set back the new clear military program for
many years.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Many no, two years, three years, five years.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It's difficult to It depends mainly on our will to
sustain our policy of prevention, okay, and to what extent
the Iranians are going to be able to constitute this
despite the will of the international community. I don't know
exactly the answer. I think it's years. I don't know
(23:54):
exactly how many years. It depends on us on whether
we are going to have will to prevent that from happening.
But in addition to that, we've been able to degrade
substantially the ballistic missile program and we've been able to
hit a lot of launchers. As I told you, this
is an effort that has to continue. We haven't finished that,
(24:14):
and I'm sure that when we achieve the military goals,
we will stop. Because this is what our cabinet has decided.
And you know, we have a democratically elected government that
is elected not to protect Israel and not to protect
the interests of other peoples. And therefore for us, it's
very important to neutralize the military threat and then to stop.
(24:35):
Our people had enough. Our people have been suffering thirty
years from Iranian aggression. Our people are twenty months now
into a war that has demanded from them so much.
You know, families have been sending their men and their
women to the army. Mothers and fathers have been staying
(24:55):
behind to take care of the children in the last
ten days. Is right? Is are you know, practically going
in and out of shelters all the time. Our economy
needs to go back to function. So we have an
interest to stop this as soon as possible. We are
not a nation that likes wars, where an action that
(25:16):
likes peace. Where you have made peace. We have made
peace with our neighbors, with six of them. We want
to make peace with more neighbors, but we want stand
idly by. Look, our people have suffered an extermination attempt
by the Nazis eighty years ago and a third of
(25:38):
our people have been exterminated by the Nazi malign machine.
We will not go gently into the night. We will
not accept a situation in which a country that sworns
to destroy us acquires the means to do so. And
we're going to act every time that we see that
(25:59):
such a country wants to destroy us, it tries to
acquire such a weapon. We have a doctrine. It started
back with Menahem Begging in eighty one when we took
out the Iraqi reactor and went on two thousand and
seven under Olmert's government and removed their Cerim reactor. With Irani,
it was much more complicated because first of all, it
(26:22):
wasn't just in one site as I told you, there
was dozens of sites. And also it was much further away.
So this created a huge challenge, a challenge in which
we had to invest billions and billions of dollars. This
is a burden on our economy. So although our economy
is strong thanks to the reforms that have been happening
(26:44):
in the last few years, this is too much. We
want to go back to build our economy, but this is.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Is there an apprehension as the field. This could be
a forever war.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know, the war that started with that October seven
attack is still on.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
This would expand a forever war, a forever attack of
Iran coming from Iran. You know, they started in the nineties.
But we're trying to promote peace and make peace with
the Palestinians in the Iranians started to support Hamas and
the suicide bombings, and they derailed the peace process time
and again. The Iranians have been doing damage to our
(27:23):
region and to us for many, many years. We want
to end this war and we hope that finally when
the Irangans see that they are not immune anymore, that
they will suffer the consequences to the extent that the
regime will be put in danger, then maybe there is
a chance that things will change, and we hope things
will change.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So this bombing that's on, and that's bombing that's on
even today, is with the aim that the regime will
come back to the negotiations stable, what do you want
to negotiate with Iran? Because we wanted to achieve three things.
We cannot talk when bombs are falling, So.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Will they want to achieve We want to achieve three things.
First of all, a verifiable way of making sure that
Iran no longer can have military nuclear capability.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
But they can enrich uranium for civilian purposes.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
We don't think that we can trust the Iranians with
enriching uranium. They don't deserve that. They've been cheating the
NPT for thirty years and they have lost their right
for enrichment. Okay. Number two, we want a commitment, a
very fiable commitment, that a ballistic missile program will disappear
from Iran and they won't be able to assemble ballistic missiles.
(28:32):
The third, we want a commitment, a very fiable commitment,
that Iran will stop this proxy war against Israel. This
is what we want, and.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Iran agree to any of this.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Iran is because I'm an independent country, I will enrich uranium,
and which is what they continue to say.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
You can continue being independent, but if you try to
destroy other countries, then you will suffer the consequences.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And they'll say, why should we give up a ballistic
missile program. It's required for our security. They will say,
why should we give up you know, having a strong
armed forces.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
There are many countries in the world that have developed
nuclear capability for peaceful purposes. There are many countries that
have developed missiles, but you know what's the difference. These
countries haven't been swearing to destroy other countries and actively
engaging in doing so. So on any security threat, you
(29:27):
have two basic elements, intentions and capabilities. The Iranians can
either give up their intentions to destroy us or give
up their cropabilities. They have to decide or your operations continue.
Where do you see Turkey in all of this?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know, because you spoke of Iran wanting to emerge
as the Caliphate, but you know Ardohan also it seems
one wants to appear as the new Automan Empire and
the caliphate. So where do you see Turkey's role in
all of these operations in the region.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Well, they haven't been involved in any operations that have
to do with Iran. In the past, they have been
harboring some of the efforts of the Iranians to circumvent sanctions.
We saw that with a lot of severity, and we've
been working to try to stop that. Generally speaking, you know,
Turkey has been a great partner of Israel throughout the years.
(30:21):
They are an important economic partner of Israel, and the
fact that Erdogan decided to pursue this kind of Muslim
brotherhood supporting the Automan policies. I don't think it's I
don't think it's working for the interest of any of
the countries around Turkey.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But wouldn't that emerge as a threat or is it
already emerging as a threat for you know, Israel, because
it's already a threat for India. The manner in which
Turkey supported Pakistan, and you talk so much about the
way Iran is sworn to destruction of Israel, it's almost
similar to Pakistan with a nuclear weapon being on to
destruction of India, the way Pakistan has been operating, and
(31:03):
Pakistan is claiming to be Okay, come to Pakistan in.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Just a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But your point on Turkey first, crab, We are not
looking for enemies. We've been actually engaging in the last
few months in a mechanism to deconflict militarily from the
Turks because we don't want to create military collision, especially
in the context of Syria. Okay, so we will continue
these efforts. We don't have any interest whatsoever in fighting Turkey.
(31:30):
On the contrary, we want to cooperate with Turkey. We
hope that Turkey will adopt more sensible policies.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
How do you see Pakistan in all of this?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You know, Pakistan in a different context wants to recommend
Donald Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize and then goes
and stands with Iran that's sworn to Israel's destruction.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Well, we are not part of the Pakistani Indian conflict.
We are, of course following with concern the fact that
Pakistan is harboring tourist organizations, thing that I think the
entire world should cooperate in order to in order to
deal with. And but we haven't seen the pakistanis doing
(32:09):
what the Iranians have been doing, you know, sending assistance
to terrorist organizations in our region, trying to build a
ring of fire around us. We haven't seen that. So,
as I said, we are not looking for enemies.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay, but you know, since you talk about what's happening
in your region, is Israel still standing by the two
nation theory, you know concept or a solution an independent
Palestine living in harmony next to Israel and not targeting
your people like the way Hamas did.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
We don't have an interest to control the daily lives
of Palestinians outside Israel. What we like to do is
to promote a self Palestinian rule that will not threaten Israel.
So we are ready to give the Palestinians the maximum
authority to control themselves without threatening us.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
But no Haamas, No Haamas in the Gaza Strip, for example.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Because Hamas is completely committed to destroy the state of Israel.
So of course that we wouldn't agree. Look, we have
been in a situation which after we drew completely from
the Galla Striy with the hope that something positive will emerge.
That okay, we've taken out all the settlements from there,
(33:31):
even the graveyards we took out. We left their nurseries
means to make a living. What Hamas did a few
months after we left, they completely destroyed the nurseries. They
engaged in creating a war machine against us. And for
years we tried to avoid from going back to the
(33:52):
gad Stry. We have zero interest of controlling the Gadstry,
but we were left with no choice when they committed
this terrible atrocity against us.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So what happens now, because now Donald Trump says he
wants to build a rivera.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
There, and so now Israel will have to stay there
until Hamas is removed. We will have to contemplate new
forces coming up, more moderate forces that will engage in
de radicalization of the population in Gaza, that will engage
in construction that we distance itself from terrorism, will distance
(34:29):
itself from attacking the state of Israel. In that context,
we can create a much better future for us and
for our Palestine neighbors.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Is there a time frame for that?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think it depends completely on the willingness of the
Palestine people. If they continue supporting Hamas and harboring them,
and if Hamas manages to take control, to take a
grip on the population, then it's going to be harder.
That's why Israel has been, for example, not only taking
more territory of Gaza and cleaning it up from the
terrorist infrastrus, but also we've been taking control of the
(35:02):
humanitarian assistance because what Hamas was doing is sequestrating the
humanitarian assistance and then selling it to the population, and
that way they were keeping a grip on power. So
now we are changing that. We are supplying the Palestinians
systems in different ways through the GHF, the humanitarian group
(35:25):
that the NGO that is giving assistance to meals to
the Palestinians through direct supply to bakeries, through un bodies,
et cetera. And we are doing the best that we
can in order to get Hamas to be less influential
on the daily lives of Palestinians. Unfortunately, as you know,
they've been hiding behind civilians. They are you know, taking
(35:48):
off their uniform and blending themselves in the population. They
are using schools and masks and other installations in order
to in order to continue their operations. So this is
a systematic effort that is slowly advancing. We are now
controlling more than half of the of the Gaza strip.
We've been bringing back our hostages in deals. Sorry, we've
(36:12):
been able to recover two hundred hostages. Out of the
two hundred and fifty, we still have fifty left out
of them, about twenty alive. Only yesterday we've been able
to recover three bodies of the Israelis that were murdered
by Hamas on the seventh October. So this is a
continuing effort, but we are determined God we will not
(36:34):
allow Hamas to resume power in the Gaza Strip. This
will not happen. Even if we sign a temper, another
temporis fired to bring back more hostages. We are not
going to give in to the demand of Hamas to
allow them to re arm and regoop. This will not happen.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So reconstruction will take some more time till the time
Hamas is removed entirely from.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Who will come Who will come to Gaza to do
any reconstruct and when you have a terrorist organization controlling them.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Civil war in the Gaza Strip virtually a forever war.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And Iran Now, first of all, it's not forever when
it comes to Iran. As I told you, we will
continue only until we finish the job. When it comes
to neutralizing the these threats of nuclear and ballistic uh,
the war can end very fast. When it comes to Gaza,
the war can end today if Hamas renounces power. If
(37:28):
it doesn't renounce his power, this airport can continue for months,
but it won't be forever.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
What role can countries like Russia play because Russia is
seen as someone uh, you know, who's interacting directly with
the regime in Iran and also with Benjamin Yahu.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
The premise, well, we we have engaged with the Russian
so I personally participated in some of the meetings and
the trips that premierster An had with President put In.
We have a lot of in common with the Russian.
We have a common heritage when it comes to fighting Nazism.
We have a huge constituency in Israel that is Russian speaking,
(38:09):
and we have a common culture. And you know, I
think that we believe President Putting when it says that
he cares about the security of Israel. And that's why
we've been working out many methods to, let's say, bring
(38:32):
down the flames in our region. We created the mechanism
for them with them, for example, to deconflict the situation
in Syria when their navy and air force was in Syria.
We can maybe work out with them a way out
of this crisis. With Iran together with the Americas.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Are the any indications we'll.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
See The diplomacy, you know, usually since to work successfully
when it is being done behind closed doors, so we'll
have to give it some time. I think that the
United States, together with Israel and other countries, will do
the effort that they need to try to de escalate
(39:10):
the situation. Once this threat was neutralized, and we hope
that stability can be restored.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
You don't think Iran is going to get more aggressive
in the times to come when it says suspend the parliament.
The much less has talked about suspending the I A e. A.
They're very unhappy with the United Nations.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
They seeking you know.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That they are very unhappy because they didn't expect what
we did to them. The question is what is the
capability to go through with your intentions? So I think
at the end of the day, people have to match
their actions and their intentions of the capabilities they have. Therefore,
(39:57):
I'm optimistic that we can de escalate the situation and
we can get a diplomatic solution.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Where do you see India and Israel's friendship with India
in all of this.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, India is a great partner of Israel. We have
a lot of trust between us. We've built distrusts in
decades of defense corporation, We've built distrust in decades of
agricultural cooperation. We have a lot in common. I think
both nations are very old peoples that have very young
countries with a lot of challenges of development that we
(40:32):
can actually engage in solving, sorting out together. And we
also have a history of oppression and devastation that came
from foreign forces that came and actually took our freedom
from us. And the fact that now we are assuming
(40:53):
our role, we are taking back our freedom, we are
building our country. This is a very very important ethos
that we have in common. Garth. So I see despite
the differences in size, naturally, you know, we are only
a nation of ten million people and we are one
hundred and fifty times smaller than India, But when it
(41:15):
comes to the ethos of building our nation, when it
comes to the challenges of fighting radicalism, we stand together.
And I know that India will have a huge role
in promoting stability in Norwegion because as much as you grow,
and your economy is growing very fast, and as much
(41:37):
as you sign trade deals with other major countries, the
major economies in the world, you will need more this connectivity.
You know, the countries in Norwegion can provide that connect
India with Europe, with the West. We can engage in
projects of energy, of communications, of technology, transportation, and this
(42:05):
is just the beginning. I'm really not only hopeful but
optimistic because we know what we can do because our
countries are countries that are convinced now in the capability
that we have in order to improve our lives. We
have proved it. You have proved it. We have proved it,
(42:26):
and we can do it together in a much better way.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
And your reading of India's actions during operations sindur because
that's also debated very extensively. But as somebody who's observed
it and as a soldier, as a diplomat, how do
you view that.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I saw a nation rising up to try to change
the equation. We don't surrender to terrorism, and you don't
surrender to terrorism.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
And the policy of mowing the alone. You know that
that I heard of in Israel is that that's constantly required.
You need to constantly fight terror. We need to constantly
fight terror. Is that the only way to move forward?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Look, there are many ways, and the situations are not
necessarily similar. I don't want to get into the details
because I'm not an expert when it comes to your
security situation, your set of considerations. I trust the Government
of India to make the right moves for the interests
of the Indian people.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
So it was a wonderful conversation that I had with you,
and you know, we can go on and on, and
I hope we do. You know, as this situation continues
to develop towards a more peaceful and a prosperous relationship between.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Your country and as many thanks for joining me here.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you girl, The Chuck Review Podcast, thank you very much.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com