Halloween’s Darkest Walk: The Taylor Van Diest Story

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Chilworthy.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
A podcast. We're two best friends discuss mysteries, murders, and
anything in between for your enjoyment.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
So if you're ready to hear some chilling and unsettling cases,
you're in the right place, happy listening. Hello, Hello, everyone,
Welcome back to episode five I Believe of Chillworthy with

(00:37):
Brent and Talia. Hi, everybody, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm doing great? How about you?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I thought, Oh fine, it's I mean, we're in fall. Hell, yeah,
we're to win it. Yeah, it's cold, it's chilly, Yes,
it risp. I keep seeing those like memes on Facebook
where it's like people are you know, people are sad
to see summer go, And then it's it's the the

(01:06):
picture of Mortitia Adams just sipping her tea like, you know,
not a care in the world. Absolutely, I feel.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Like we're so sort of in fall that it's not
even hitting me. Like I feel like we're past the
point of like, oh I'm so sad to see summer go.
Not that I'm one of those people, but like we're
so far in it's it's like not even crossing my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
So that's that I did notice, though, that. Like, I
think I've been so distracted with like trying to like
get my cards out there and stuff. I didn't put
out any decorations, you know, like I have like an
autumn wreath, but I'm saying, like I don't have my
cute ceramic jack and lanterns. I don't have that weeping willow.

(01:58):
That's that that purple thing. Like remember when we did
that hocus Pocus night and I had it very nice?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Get on it, man, there's still time, you know. I
know I could go do that today, thanks surely.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
So anyway, that's that's what's happening there.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
But there were a lot of Halloween movies on last weekend,
and you know, I like when things are just on,
like you serendipitously find them, not that you're putting the
movie on. I understand, right, Casper Scream.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I watched Casper as well.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Hecky Beetle Juice, which.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know is not I watched that as well.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I went to bed Edward Scissorhands. You do it right,
I love that movie. Yeah, so just.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
That, man, thanks me the f out so much.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I wanted to watch Halloween Town but I didn't, but
I show.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Wa wa wa wa wa.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
You know you know absolutely, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
All right, So with the segment that we have here,
we are on e So I chose eyelashes. Okay, So
the eyelash has this lore about it about that you
can make a wish upon it. So tell you just
blew into the mic for everyone who can't see, which

(03:25):
is all of us. If one falls out, it says
to put it back, to put it on the back
of your left hand. Interesting, make a wish, place your
right hand palm down over the lash, and press. If
the lash sticks to the right palm, your wish will

(03:47):
come true. Well, I've never heard of that. There's so
much we as the public do not know about eyelashes.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Pressing wild flours in a book.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Probably yeah. So I also saw that people will do this,
they'll blow the lash away after making a wish. However,
in the research I've done, it says this is not
a good idea, since eyelashes belong to that group of

(04:26):
bodily growths that are believed to be of great use
to witches who want to cast an evil spell on you.
So you should remember to always save them. Now, what
I'm assuming by that means they're saying save them, as
in like, don't just willy nilly be throwing them out
into the world so people can put a curse on you.

(04:48):
Maybe burn them or throw them out, you know what
I mean, put them in the toilet, something of that nature.
But anyway, I thought that first thing was very interesting
about the real way to do it and the hand
who's sticking to who? So everyone interested, rewind and listen

(05:08):
the next time. There's an eyelash somewhere.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
All the directions.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yes, so fine.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Books, Yes, hold on, now do you have any No,
you haven't had the time.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
No, I haven't. Okay, So although wait, let me say this,
this was I thought very nice. I don't know who
it was, though, but somebody did. One of our listeners
commented on my TikTok about my cards and said he
or she said, I really love your cards. But then
they did follow up by asking when we were coming

(05:49):
back from break, So somebody out there is listening. Now
that could have been Erica for all I know, but
we have listeners, we do. But whoever it was, it
was like only it was like user you know, twenty
eight thirty nine eighty seven six, So like I don't
know who that you.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Thank you for your interest and listening. Thank you everyone.
Of course you're all angels and.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
I mean that so okay, anyway, I just thought that
that was very nice. Yeah, that somebody out there is
following me, whoever that might be, and said they like
my cards end they are missing Chilworthy.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, so lovely.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Mm hmm, okay, go ahead. I'm not reading anything.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
All right. So since we talked last, I finished The
Road to Tender Hearts. That was the one that I
told you about that had like a very traumatic beginning,
very dark humor. Though oh yes, any Heartnett absolutely fantastic.
Read like trigger warnings for about everything under the sun

(06:59):
that a human experience, So be careful and read with caution.
But this book is so well done and I gave
it five stars.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, Forget Me Not by Stacy Willingham I finished. I
gave that four stars. This is the one I read.
Other books by her, My favorite one was Flicker in
the Dark. She was the author of that one. This one,
I enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. It was a
good mystery, wasn't anything terribly scary. I would, you know,

(07:31):
recommend The Cottage around the Corner by d L.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, that sounds like a book.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
It was very cozy. It's about this witch.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Hell yeah, well I'm interested. I know I'm not good.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Definitely would not like this book.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now, there's no way you picked a good witch book.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Go ahead, excuse me. It's not very kind.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's just truth.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
How is there no way I would not pick a
good witch book.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
You've never once described a fantasy book ever? Have you
ever in this entire three seasons two seasons read a
fantasy described a fantasy book.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
The House and the Cerulean Sea was fantasy, not.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Your ca Okay, No, that was okay.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
What about that one that I think when we went
to the movies it was being made into one project?
Hail Mary, that's a witch book.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
No, that's a freaking side five book, right, yeah, yeah,
I'm talking I said fantasy.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
I know.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
All right, Well we're gonna just be at an impasse.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I know, but we're talking about witches.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, I'm gonna keep quiet now.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
No you don't have to, I'd like to, all right.
So I gave this one five stars as well. But
I think I said this to you when I told
you that I started it, And this is definitely not
your cup of tea, but it's not like based on
You've Got Mail. I love that movie.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
But it's like a similar concept of like a little business,
this thing coming into town, and so it's sort of
like and they reference this movie and the book, Oh
my god, it's just it's delightful. And then I'm currently
reading Indian Burial Ground by Nick Medina. Spooky but like

(09:32):
a manageable thing, manageable situation. But I was thinking of
you because I feel like the way the chapters are
done is so not your cup of tea. So not
only do they so the chapters are either Louie or
no Amy. Is that how you would pronounce that name?

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Naomi?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
But it's n o E M I Oh, I don't know,
write me neither. So she is Louie's niece and when
he's sixteen, she's like, I want to say three, I
believe maybe two, And so his chapters are when he's

(10:14):
sixteen and she's, you know, two or three. Then it
flip flops to her chapters where she's forty and he's
what fifty six? Okay, I don't know, so and there'll
be like two Louis chapters and then one with her,
and then like four of her and one of him.
So it's like it's there's no real pattern, but it's

(10:35):
spooky for sure. But like I said, manageable, like you can.
I can read it at night. I know you could
read it at any hour any day, right, but brave face, right,
But I don't know what's what yet in the book,
so fine, And then I started Every Heart a Doorway.

(10:57):
Have you ever heard of this series? By absolutely not
Sean and maguire. It's about like wayward children who go
to this school run by this woman.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh well, then of course I heard about it. Oh
you haven't told me about it?

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh yes, okay, and I had.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
To explain it back to you because you weren't understanding it.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
And there's like ten in this series, but apparently they're
all very short books, like they're I think like you.
I'm in the middle of reading the first one. Very good.
A lot of characters just sort of I guess, not
that many compared to other books, but it feels like
there's like kind of a lot to keep I shouldn't
say that. Character wise, it's manageable. They're all from different

(11:36):
like worlds, and that's confusing to me right now, like
to keep track of that. But the main well not
the main character, but like the newest arrival to the
school has been voicing her frustration as well, with like
not being able to keep track of where everybody's from.
And somebody was like, Oh, we're going to give you
a lesson on that, and I'm thinking we'll sign me
up too, because I'm quite confused. That's it.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Okay, Well, that last one sounds pretty yeah, interesting.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I think that is up your ally. I'm getting like
Harry Potter vibes. I'm getting what else? Am I getting?
What else could there be? Oh? Oh, speaking of this
sort of did you watch the most recent season of Wednesday? No, yeah,
we did. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I will say
I thought it was kind of scary compared to what

(12:26):
other seasons they have. Two other seasons, right, this was
season three.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I thought it was season two.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Oh shit, maybe it is not.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
I think it is season two. Yeah, scratch that, okay,
really quick, everybody. I just wanted to let you know
that there was some weird feedback happening. I don't know
why it was happening on my mic, specifically, like some
kind of weird vibration that was making the microphone hum

(12:52):
when I wasn't talking, So I think I fixed it.
I'm holding the microphone now instead of having it attached
to the table, so I'll have to figure out what
was happening. But anyway, we apologize for that audio disturbance,
and now we will get back to the actual episode.

(13:12):
All right, So now that we're back in the actual episode,
I wanted to say, also, when you were talking about
that movie, did you see Diane Keaton died? What movie
whatever old movie you were talking about. I know she
wasn't in that movie.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes I did, and it's interesting. I'm devastated. I loved her,
loved her. I had just watched First Wives Club twice
my childhood friend. I guess I could say her name.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Heather, say it right, say it proud right.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
We watched that constantly when we were kids, like we
I mean, she was much better at quoting it than
I was. But that was one of our That was
one of our favorite movies, and I remember going to
the movie theater to see it with my groom and
my aunt as a kid. I just always loved it,
and it's just crazy to me, so like I said,

(14:07):
I watched it recently, and then last night Ashley and
I were trying to find it and it's not anywhere.
I mean, you can of course rent.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
It, yeah yeah, yeah or whatever. That's why important, but
you have it.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
No, not that movie, but yeah, I love that movie.
So then we went on a deep dive of how
old they all are, because I was in my head
thinking Goldie Han was the oldest. And then I wasn't
sure about Bet and Diane Keaton. I say, Bet like,
I know her, but I just don't know the other
two personally, and so we were looking it up. They're

(14:43):
all seventy nine.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Isn't that interesting?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah? Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, it's Bet Midler's time to shine.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Absolutely so. But yes, very sad, rest in peace, Diane.
And it didn't say what she passed away from.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I didn't. I didn't look into it besides just hearing
about it. Yeah. I saw somebody on TikTok back to
Bette Midler did like a. I guess they were just
bored and decided they were going to do an entire
timeline of the hocus Pocus events, going off of any

(15:22):
time there's a clock or someone references the time throughout
the movie, so they like gave a like detailed breakdown
of what happens the entire night and when it happens.
So it's like, you know, Max and Danny leave the
house at five forty six because like the wall there's
like a clock, and it's like they start going trick

(15:43):
or treating. They get to Allison's house at eight thirty
five because like Alison comes down the steps and behind
it is that big, that big grandfather clock. Yeah, you know.
And then they're like, uh, when like Ernie and I
not well Ernie, but Ice. And what's the other one's name?

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I don't know if I ever knew his name?

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Jay am I.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Now I'm Jay? This is Ice? Well first he says Ernie,
I'm Jay. Yeah that sounds about right. You might be right.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
I might be whoever those two are. Yeah, they're like.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
They're like, it's three o'clock. All the babes are undressed already.
All right, look I don't feel so good because you
ain't too much candy anchor.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Ankersh you know.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
But then like when they when they're back at Max's
house and they like took a nap or whatever, and
Alison is like She's like, oh my god, it's five
a m. My father is going to kill me or
whatever she says. Like, So they just did the entire
timeline of everything. I thought it was.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Interesting, fascinating.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
So yeah, all right, well are you ready to dive in?
All right, then we shall. So since we were in October,
I wanted to do a case a case. I had

(17:17):
a weird bodily noise, a case that was halloween esque
or shall I say, based on Halloween I guess, like
around Halloween. Whatever the hell I'm trying to say. So right,
this of Taylor van Dicet d I E s t

(17:44):
Would you say? Okay? So this was something that actually
took place on Halloween? Oh wow? So okay, So this
took place Halloween night twenty eleven. This took place in

(18:07):
the small town of Armstrong, British Columbia, which obviously is
in Canada. Yes, so before we go on, I wanted
to look into this little town just because you know,
Canada intrigues the shit out of me. Yes, it's huge, Yeah,
overwhelmingly full of nice people, seems to be, and we

(18:30):
know nothing of it.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
You know how I feel about Alaska.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
I guess. But like I don't know. I'm just saying
there's so many I feel like there's so many intriguing
things about Canada that I just have no clue about,
so anyway, unexplored. And it's so close, right, and it's
so big. So anyway, having said that, I looked up

(18:57):
a few little facts about this. Not Canada as a whole, No, no,
this place. So what I've learned.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Here refresh my memory.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
The name of Armstrong arms in British Columbia, Canada. Okay,
so number one, you'll like this a lot.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah it is.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
It's known as the cheese capital. Wow, the cheese man.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I was just gonna say, the cheese man must live there.
That sounds and delightful, so sim me up.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
It says. Armstrong is famously known for its artist in
cheese production. So I mean not the loaf sea exactly
eaten into like apples, but you know what I mean,
just a nice brick of cheese. So the local cheese
factory put the town on the map. It attracts visitors
to sample it's cheddar and gouda, which earned Armstrong a

(19:55):
reputation as a small town culinary stop for food.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I must go there at some point, And I'm not kidding.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I'm just saying, yeah, same, yeah, your bitch, just sure.
It's also nicknamed the Heart of Country. Armstrong embraces its
deep agricultural roots, and I guess it's surrounded by farmlands
and the town thrives on ranching crops, and it's like,

(20:27):
it's very the vibe. Basically, there's like a lot of
like apple sighteries, farmers' markets and like spring bloom festivals.
All of it sounds lovely to me, very hallmarky, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
So it's also it's only five square kilometers in size,
but it was founded in nineteen thirteen and it was
named after British banker William garls Heaton Armstrong, and the
town grew around the railway that once connected Okanagan to

(21:09):
the shoe Swap. But it's spelled s h U.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
S w a P, so they're not swapping the.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Shoes when they're swapping the s h us.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
The fourth thing is that it proudly boasts one of
the last remaining public telephone boosts in Canada. How sweet
and charming. And lastly, beyond its farms and fields, Armstrong
holds vibrant local festivals and markets where you'll find everything
from live music to flower displays. I feel like I'm

(21:47):
giving them a commercial. Absolutely, they're not sponsoring us, but
they could. They want to. The cheese people, the cheese
men and women. Absolutely anyway, just I thought you would
be interested in hearing that.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Absolutely would love to go. And I am not kidding,
so anyway.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
So okay, So now it's it's Halloween in this little town.
So Armstrong was a like I just told you, a
tight knit farming community. There were about five thousand people
who lived there. This was the kind of place where
everybody knows everybody else, and serious crime was virtually unheard of.
But we hear that a lot. Until it's not unheard of,
you know what.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean, can happen anywhere.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Absolutely so. Porch lights glowed over carved pumpkins. Kids were
running around door to door. Dare I say, it's like
my Halloween tarot deck. That's exactly how I designed it.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Different era, but yes, you're right, different era, right, but
still close enough.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's close enough.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
That needs to be on a shirt.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
So there was a festive chill in the air that evening.
So here we go eighteen years Taylor Van Deist was
among those out celebrating the Halloween. You know, trick or
treating eighty things. Yes, Now, keeping that in mind, I
also wanted to see quickly about like what was the

(23:17):
difference between Like, is there any difference between Canada's Halloween
and our Halloween?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Good question.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
So they're pretty similar, but there were a couple of
different things. The first thing is that in some parts
of Canada there's a tradition where school groups or youth
organizations go door to door, kind of like we do
with UNISEEPH, but they collect instead of like change, they
collect non perishable food items like cans of beans maybe

(23:49):
or something like that. Right, So that was number one.
Number two. Fascinatingly, the phrase trick or treat is actually
documented to have been used earlier in Canada than in
the US.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Like that's where originated.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
I wouldn't say originated, but Canada started using it before
we did. I'm assuming that came from Europe somewhere, but
I could be wrong.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Who the hell am I and Ireland? Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I do. So. Apparently it was first noted to be
used in Ontario in nineteen seventeen.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
So there was also this thing where instead of kids
just coming to the door and saying, you know, trick
or treat and like basically saying like give me my candy.
There was there was like historically it would be like
kids would put on like a little like a like
a little show, you know, like a little maybe they
would do a trick I know, like I know it's

(24:46):
in the thing trick or treat, but it was like,
you know, they would like do a little dance or
a little ditty and it would be yes. So that's
not really enforced anywhere, but some of the towns still
are like, Shami, what do you got? What do you
have happening here? And then there was just this thing
it said, like, you know, with Canada being further north,

(25:08):
sometimes snow plays a role in Halloween and it like
gets a cancer and so people will try to do
things indoors and whatever. So like you know, it was
just I don't know like that that those were the differences.
The only other thing I saw was that there's something
called mischief slash Game Night slash matt Night m at
and it just said that in some parts of Canada,

(25:31):
the night before Halloween, which is October thirtieth obviously, is
sometimes called gate night where teenagers might do pranks like
stealing doormats.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
So we have mischief night here. I kind of called that.
And also like, isn't it goosey night or something? Goony
goosey something like that. I think that's a thing.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Lots of silly geese out there, and what was goosey? Lucy?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
It fright night. It has like three different names. But yeah,
we have that around here.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, Okay, So Taylor, she's out folloween night. Yes,
so she that night she had dressed up as a zombie.
Oh so she did like the pale makeup, the fake blood,

(26:26):
you know. So she is ready to enjoy the tricker
treating with her friends. And I guess it was like
quoted that, you know, it was like one last time
before they were too old to trick or treat.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
It gives me the chills, chill worthy.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
So Taylor was, uh, you know, a fun loving kid.
She recently graduated from Pleasant Valley Secondary School, so she
was known for her bright personality and her sense of humor.
Before heading out, Taylor's mom, whose name was Marie van Dicet,
gave her the same reminder that she gives her every

(27:05):
year this is what she says. She says, I tell
them I love them, and I tell them to be safe.
Little did she know that October thirty one, twenty eleven,
would be the last time that she spoke those words
to Taylor. So Taylor leaves the house around five fifty pm.
That was Monday, by the way, this was happening on
a Monday. Like I always appreciate the people who keep

(27:30):
Halloween on Halloween, you know, Like I don't care if
it's Monday. Yes, I don't care. Agreed anyway, So Taylor
throws on a tan jacket over her zombie costume to
keep warm. Her plan was to walk a short distance
across the town to meet up with her friend Zoe
so that they could join other friends for some trick

(27:52):
or treating. So the route that Taylor chose was the
one that she'd walked many times before. It led along
the edge of the town near a set of railway
tracks on Rosedale Avenue, so this was a common shortcut
for the local kids. So twilight is setting in and

(28:13):
as Taylor headed out, she sent a few text messages
to her friends to say that she was on her way.
So everything seemed perfectly normal at the time, but about
ten minutes into her walk, the text messages that she
was sending took a frightening turn. So at six oho
one pm, Taylor's friend Zoe received a strange text from

(28:36):
Taylor that sent shivers down her spine. What the message
from Taylor read, quote unquote being creeped? What do you
have to say about that? You're not happy about it?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Now? Like someone was following?

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, oh I got the chills. Chillworthy in their team slang.
Being creeped meant that someone was following or harassing her.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Oh great, Well you're trying to like trick or treat now.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh she didn't even get there yet.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Oh I thought she was like root.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She didn't get to her
friends to start trigger treating. She was just walking as
a zombie on a weird little side.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Oh oh yes, yes, I forgot about that part.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
So essentially, what Taylor was saying to Zoe was that
she felt like she was being creeped out by a stranger.
So Zoe immediately texts back and she's she's asking where
are you going? She's trying to figure out like where
she was and what was happening. Yeah, but Taylor never replies.

(29:46):
After that cryptic text at six oh one, all communication
from Taylor's phone just stops. It was as if she
had vanished into the Halloween darkness.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
But but not to say things weren't getting delivered. Just
no communication, right, nothing.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Zoe got worried more worried when Taylor never showed up
to their meeting point. So this was not like Taylor.
She was usually punctual and quick to respond to messages.
As the minutes turned into an hour, worry was now
like the forefront. By seven thirty pm, Taylor's friends and

(30:26):
family were out looking for her and retracing the route
that she would have walked. Let me ask you this,
would you say root or route? What's your I go
to pronunciation? Dare I ask you this? I'm sure you're
gonna say, I say, route out? Is that the route

(30:51):
out you're taking? No? Really? How do you hope? How
do you say it?

Speaker 2 (31:02):
I always say route?

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Okay, yeah, all right, well we're on the same page
then yes, all right, So anyway, I will.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Say if I was gonna use route, I would say
what route are we talk taking? In terms of like
what way are we gonna go when we're gonna go
to this place.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
But if we were going to take like a highway.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
I would say, like Route nineteen exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
But I don't do that, But I'm just saying if
I would.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Right, Yeah, this is all hypothetical, everyone, all right, So anyway,
they are retracing the path that she would have taken. You. So,
in the brush near the trail the trail in the
in the brush near the railroad tracks off of Rosedale Avenue,
they found a clue Taylor's cell phone. Uh it was

(32:00):
found abandoned on the ground. And seeing Taylor's phone lying
there with no sign of her was obviously freaking terrifying.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh yeah, was it smashed.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
It confirmed everybody's worst fear that something bad had happened.
They immediately contacted the police.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm sure they had to wait a month before they
could actually take it.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, we're in Canada, so I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
She maybe wanted to start again.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Maybe she did with growing you know, panic. Taylor's loved
ones and neighbors continued to search the area in the dark,
calling out her name. Can you imagine on Halloween night,
all these kids running around in costumes and your kids specifically,
is like missing, Like what as that feels so cinematic,

(32:49):
you know, like people are trigg or treating. It's not
necessarily desolate, but it isn't. It's at night. I don't know,
all of that is like that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
And even two, like for anyone there that night, you'll
never think of Halloween the same way again, no matter
how this ends, you know. I yeah, in terms of
like childhood core memory, I mean, her friend group was
obviously older, but there's you know, of course much younger
children floating around treating. Yeah, just frightening.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
So it was basically a community effort. At this point,
there were flashlights everywhere trying to light up the darkness.
Voices were shouting for Taylor into the night. Finally, at
approximately eight forty five pm, two hours after Taylor had
gone missing, their worst nightmare came true. Taylor was discovered
by her family and friends lying in a ditch alongside

(33:46):
the quiet railroad tracks.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Dead.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
She was face down and unconscious. Uh. The scene was
basically horrifying. The eighteen year old was barely clinging onto life.
Her costume and her hair was matted with blood. Her
body was brutally beaten. She had been severely injured. It

(34:11):
was clear that she had been the victim of a
vicious assault. So frantic her rescuers attempted to revive her,
and an ambulance rushed her to the nearest hospital. As
they lifted her out of the ditch, Taylor was still
breathing but totally unresponsive. The extent of her injuries would

(34:32):
soon become tragically clear, though, so Taylor was taken to
Gellowona General Hospital k E L O w NA. Yeah, yeah,
close enough. Yeah, this was about an hour away, so

(34:55):
that's a no at all. So doctors fought to save
her life. Back in Armstrong, word if the attack was
spreading quickly and it was stunning the community, Armstrong's mayor
Chris Pepper Piper p I E P.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
R P er probably go with Piper. But who's to
say real quick about the hospital? Do you think that
they I would hope they have hospitals that are closer,
but that the extent of her injuries, she needed to
go somewhere like to like a trauma.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah yeah, I don't know. I mean there must have
been a real I find it hard to believe that
there's not a hospital within an hour of where she was, right,
I don't know. So the mayor, he gets on an
early phone call on November first, and he's alerted to
this serious incident, and you know, he's basically just told

(35:55):
that a young person had been attacked and it was
and they were in the hospital. Neighbors were waking up
to the news that one of their own was a
target of a Halloween night horror. Many refused to believe
such violence could even happen in this town. Someone was
quoted in saying, we're a small town. This has never
happened in our community before. Well here we are, exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
So parents kept their children home from school that following day.
Everyone was very anxious and like just very on edge
about what happened. So now in the hospital, despite every
effort by medical staff, Taylor's injuries were too severe. So
during the early hours of November first, twenty eleven, shortly

(36:41):
after one am, Taylor succumbed to her injuries.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
She died.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
She did so. The teenager who just the night before
had excitedly stepped out in a zombie you know, costume
and was supposed to go trigger treating has now died.
So her mother and her father and Taylor had a
twin sister. They were all devastated. So I told you.

(37:09):
The mom's name was Marie, the father was Raymond, and
I don't know what Taylor's twin sister's name was. It's
not mentioned at the moment, but they were devastated. So
Marie was quoted in saying, the hardest thing I ever
had to do as a mother was to tell her
twin sister that, you know, Taylor was gone. She said,

(37:32):
there will always remain an empty chair where Taylor should
have sat. So police officially declared that they were investigating
Taylor's death as a homicide.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Hallelujah.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
I thought you were gonna say Halloween, but yes.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Let's not waste more time. Let's call it what it is.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I agree. Gosh, So of course the Royal Canadian mounted you.
You were gonna say that. You say that every time
I bring them up. Yeah, mobilized a large task force
to hunt down her killer.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
So, by the day after the murder, more than thirty
officers were involved, cambing the area for clues and interviewing residents.
They scoured the brush along the railway line where Taylor
had been found, hoping to find the weapon or any
forensic evidence left behind. The community also pitched in to
help however they could. Many local volunteers joined police to

(38:38):
search the crime scene and the surrounding areas, looking for
anything that might lead to the attack. The outpouring of
effort was enormous. Nobody in Armstrong could rest easy knowing
that a violent attacker was still on the loose in
their small town. As investigators worked, forensic evidence from Taylor's

(38:59):
body began to tell the story of what had happened.
The autopsy, conducted on November three in a nearby town
revealed the truly brutal nature of this assault. So Taylor
died of multiple blunt blunt force trauma to the head,
meaning that she had been struck in the head many

(39:21):
times with heavy force. In fact, the pathologist found her
scalp was torn and her skull was fractured in at
least six places from repeated blows. There were also dark
ligature marks around her neck, indicating that she had been
strangled with some kind of cord or rope, later determined

(39:44):
to be a shoelace that had been tightened around her throat. Chillingly,
Taylor's own fingernails had left scratch marks on.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Her neck, which was so trying to get it all.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Right, evidence that she had fought desperately to pull away
whatever was choking her.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
This is horrifying, I know. Also I had no clue
you could kill someone with a shoelace. Also, the amount
of time where I mean, maybe you'll get to this
on what the time of death was expected to be
or estimated to be. But like from the time that
she sends this message that someone is not stalking her

(40:24):
but like following her or whatever, and then like the
time that they then lose contact then find her, like
whoever this was, I feel like this was a very
quick thing.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Oh it had to be right, but like it had
to be I would say it had to be within
minutes of her sending that last message, because when her
friend responded right away with where are you and she
never responded again, Like you would think that if you're
if you feel like you're being followed, you're the last
thing you're going to do is just put your phone
then back in your pocket.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah. Well and if he like well whoever it was,
attacked her like a well, she obviously knew they were
around and like lurking but like if the phone, I
don't even know this is this is really awful. They're
all awful, but this is particularly disturbing, I feel like.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
So.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
The autopsy also documented defensive wounds, So there were lacerations
and bruises on her hands and several broken fingers showing
that Taylor had raised her hands to protect herself and struggled,
I mean, basically like crazy against whoever this attacker was.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
And we don't know what the object was that she
was being hit with.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
I think we do, okay, and we find that out
very shortly. Okay, So basically with this stuff, it was
basically that, you know, she truly had tried to fight back,
like she wasn't going down easily. So from the nature
of her injuries, investigators deducted some of the weapons that
were used. The forensic pathologists testified that to tear the

(42:04):
scalp and crack a skull, a fairly heavy object was
likely used, so like possibly a long metal flashlight filled
with batteries.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, I was thinking like a rock.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
I don't think so. In fact, when Taylor was found
there had been a length of metal pipe lying under
her head. Oh, some of her wounds may have come
from her head being bashed against that metal pipe during
the struggle. So this was a vicious and a prolonged attack,
Like it wasn't just one once and done, which is

(42:40):
to hit her so many times.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I mean, I just the obviously this person was trying
to do grave or inflict grave harm, and I'm sure
try to kill her, but even like, who was this
and they just come out of like the freaking woods
and you come upon this girl, and I just I

(43:02):
don't know if this is like not computing.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
So the Crown prosecutor had had later said the killing
itself was brutal. There was no other way to describe it.
He viciously hit her with the flashlight and then left
her there to die.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
So we know solidly it was the flashlight.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yes, okay. To the community and investigators alike, it was
almost unthinkable that someone was capable of such raw brutality
and that they were just literally walking among them because
they weren't capture and that.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
This doesn't sound like the kind of area, especially like Halloween.
We're not even talking like Thanksgiving or Christmas where people
would maybe be traveling in like this doesn't sound like
that kind of a place. Oh, yeah, you know, like
that people would be just going through town.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
New you know, and nobody knew if he was going
to do this again. Right, So, in those first days
after Taylor's murder, Armstrong was gripped by fear. The police
assured the public that they were pursuing all of the leads,
but they had no suspect yet, and they could not
say if the attack was random or targeted. Residents locked

(44:18):
their doors. Sounds good for you, certainly.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
But it just shows like that being said makes me
think it was definitely a place people did not see.
Oh I believe that, knowing everybody super cute, quaint, quiet,
safe until now.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Parents drove their kids to school instead of letting them walk.
Police urged everyone in town to take precautions. They said,
traveling groups, avoid dark shortcuts, let people know where you are.
The city had even helped circulate this advice, and it
was well heated by all the citizens of Armstrong. The

(44:56):
mayor later recalled how anxiety filled the city was like
in the weeks after the murder, and you know, it
was just he was just saying how so many people
were questioning him on like, you know, did he think
the killer was a local? And did he think the
killer was still around? And all good questions and kind

(45:20):
of like you had just said, overnight, Armstrong had lost
its innocence that it thought it happened.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, and I'm sorry you said this was what twenty eleven?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, yeah, so one incident during the investigation, only heided, heided,
only heightened the community's dread. On November ninth, twenty eleven,
about a week after the murder, police received an anonymous letter.
What that looks like what Telly was about to say?

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, my head like snapped up.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
And they were claiming responsibility for Taylor's killing.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Get out of here.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
I don't see. I don't see what's so crazy about that.
I mean, people are always doing this now and I
say always doing it's only since we started looking into it.
But people love to claim true things they've done when
maybe they haven't.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
So the letter, the letter's writer not only said that
they had killed Taylor, but also threatened further violence against
women in Armstrong. It was a pretty crazy thing to
get in the mail, I suppose. So the murderer was
basically taunting the town and planning to attack again. So

(46:34):
the police could not verify if the letter was genuine
or was just a hoax, So they're quoted in saying
because of the limited details about the crime, it made
it difficult to determine if in fact, it's from the
person who killed her. The police had explained, and they
were making this public because they wanted to urge the

(46:55):
mystery letter writer to come forward to the police again
and basically prove that they were legit. So in the meantime,
authorities had to treat that threat seriously. If it's not authentic.
We've got two or more people that are pretty warped,
one of them said. The mayor said, either a killer

(47:17):
or a killer and a hoaxer. So the people of
Armstrong once again, we're now like ratcheted up on edge.
Even more women in town started taking self defense classes,
and pepper spray flew off the store shelves, Halloween decorations
had barely been taking down, and yet a real life

(47:38):
horror story seemed to be taking over this town.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I told you that I did a self defense class.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Excuse me, No, Actually, this must have been.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I don't know, like it was, I don't know, two
thousand and nine ish, maybe like after all college. Yeah,
and I flipped the man, the instructor. Are you proud
of myself? We had to break wood. I kept my
peace that I broke I punched it or did something

(48:08):
with my hand and I flipped him.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Could you still do that?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
No, I don't remember how I did it. It's very
unfortunate that I don't have these skills anymore. But yeah,
it was a nice time.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well that's nice, right. So through all of this, Taylor's
family had to endure both their personal grief and the
public spotlight of the case. In media interviews, Taylor's mother
was often composed, but she was very clear about her anguish.
She said, I'm just sick of feeling this torment, this torture.

(48:47):
End quote she said shortly after the funeral, describing the
day by day pain of losing her daughter. Taylor's twin sister,
and other siblings struggled with the sudden emptiness of their
lives without Taylor there. Taylor's father expressed his heartbreak and
protective anger. Listening to early news reports and later the

(49:10):
forensic details was horrific and extremely painful, he said, for
him and his family to listen to which obviously he
could only hope that maybe his daughter had lost consciousness
early on in the assault and hadn't felt the full
terror of those blows to her head. With tears in
his eyes, Raymond had said quietly, I would rather have

(49:31):
gone through that than her. I would rather have been
there and not her. So this family was obviously shattered,
and the only thing that could bring them any kind
of solace would be finding out who this person was.
So despite the mounting pressure, the police investigation pressed onward
like slow but methodically. Officers conducted dozens of interviews in

(49:54):
the community, speaking to anybody who had seen or spoken
with Taylor and Halloween. They collected the text messages Taylor's
friends to piece together a timeline of her final hours.
Those texts showed nothing unusual until the haunting being Creeped
message came through. Police also canvassed for an eyewitness who
might have noticed suspicious individuals around Rosedale Avenue that evening.

(50:19):
In a town that small, it was hopeful that someone
might have seen a strange car or an unfamiliar face. Remarkably,
a couple of witnesses did come forward to report they
heard screams near the crime scene around that time that
Taylor went missing. I feel like this is extremely tricky
on Halloween night though, good point. I mean because variables, well, right,

(50:40):
I mean the idea of okay, you're out trigger treating
in somebody's screams, what are you going to do? Called
the cops. I'm not even trying to be funny. I'm
just saying, like I mean, unless somebody is really well
attuned to knowing the literal pure terror of a scream
versus EWW Right, you know, I don't know, you know
when you're.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Startled, but even thinking when kids are out and if
it's like you know, the age that they had been,
like that friend group or even like a mid range situation,
and if like one group of kids is going and
if another group like came up and scared them, like
even that simplistic scare could like elicit a crazy screen.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Of course, now you don't ever do haunted houses or anything.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I've been to one Erica and I went with her cousins.
That was fairly recent, like five is years ago. I
want to say, no more than that. And other than that,
maybe once or twice as a kid. Not my cup

(51:47):
of team generally not. Oh and then in college we
had to work one like the our tennis team, Like
the coach signed us up for that as like our
community service thing, so we like participated while we volunteered
to do whatever they needed us to do. And like
some I want to say, like had to do clean up.

(52:09):
Some had to like dress up or whatever and like
be part of the scare in it. I was a
witch and I did like a psychotic laugh, and but
like I was dressed up, so no one knew I
was like a person. And then they would like come
into my room and like act all like who what's
in here? And then I would do it and scare them. Wow,
I got some screams.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yes, I bet you did. Yep.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
I was proud of my talent.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
I have a feeling though that laugh wasn't that different
than your normal laugh?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
It wasn't hard to do. No, yeah, you're.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Correct, I would assume, yeah, Italia.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
That's why I was for that s.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
But so one local woman, Delphine, I'm not even an
attempt to say this last name. Yeah, I will actually
bury low okay, and I'm not spelling it. She had
been outside checking on her Halloween pumpkins when she heard
two screams that she said pierced the night air checking on.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Her Halloween pumpkins.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Maybe to make sure nobody smashed them or that they
weren't burning in the candle, right right, I think that's
the least of the things we need to focus on here. Yes, so,
she said the first one sounded more distraught than the
second one did.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
So, And do we know where Delphine's home was in
relation to where Taylor's body was found?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Well, I don't know the exact like how far away,
but it was obviously with an earshot of the rail road. Yeah. So,
she said the screams seemed to be coming from a
female voice coming from the direction of the railroad tracks.
There was another resident, Natasha Bellow, She also heard a single,

(54:03):
high pitched scream that night, but because it was Halloween,
she admitted that she gave it no further thought. I
can't hold it against her, Absolutely not. I shan't no
so at that time, assuming that it just might be
kids playing or acting scary, she just went about her business. Yeah. So,

(54:25):
those witness accounts sent a chill through everyone who heard them,
because amid the laughter and shrieks of trick or treaters
on Halloween night, Taylor's real cries for help had gone
tragically unrecognized. Now, you know, when you actually think about it,
somebody who is legit interested in going on a murder spree,

(54:47):
why wouldn't you pick a trick or treat night.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Oh, this person was absolutely onto something, I will say.
I find it pretty disturbing though, that you also associate
Halloween night with children. There's tons of children around, So
that makes me further disturbed that if she was not
the target and it was like happenstance of whoever was
going to be an easy target that this person would

(55:10):
come across was most likely assuming it was going to
be a young child, which I guess it's further horrifying,
and also to like you would think someone who you
could easily overpower like that there are so many children around,
Like I don't know, maybe not, but.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
So physical evidence gathered from the scene and Taylor's body
was carefully analyzed. One major break came from the DNA evidence.
Investigators had discovered farign DNA under her fingernails, a result
of her scratching her attack or as she fought back,
So Taylor had managed to literally scrape off a bit
of her assailant's skin or blood. This was a very

(55:49):
important clue. If the person's DNA profile was on record,
it could lead them straight to the suspect. Weeks went by.
Now they did not lose it, just so you know,
shock crazy, But they didn't. Weeks went by as the
forensic lab worked on this sample. Then on November twenty third,
twenty eleven, the police announced a significant development.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Less than a month since it happened. Another shocker.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
The DNA found on Taylor's body had been matched to
DNA from an unsolved sexual assault WHOA that occurred in
two thousand and five in a neighboring city, So the
same unidentified man's DNA was linked to both crimes. This
was obviously a huge breakthrough because it meant that the

(56:39):
person who murdered Taylor had attacked before, years earlier, and
likely would attack again if not caught. Investigators now knew
that they were dealing with a serial predator. The two
thousand and five case involved a sex worker who had
been brutally assaulted. Back then. A man had gone to
an escort agent and see lured a nineteen year old

(57:03):
sex trade worker to a room and attacked her, grabbing
her by the hair, holding a knife to her throat.
And then sexually assaulting her. He had escaped justice at
the time, but police had recovered his DNA from that crime.
Now that same DNA showed up under Taylor's nails. It
was a chilling confirmation that Taylor's killer was a violent

(57:25):
offender who had been hidden in the shadows for at
least six years since that original crime. Well, I guess
I shouldn't say original crime. He could have done other crimes,
but absolutely the crime they know first known.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I told you about the professor that I had. I
think I've brought this up in episode. Oh yes, and
it always makes me think of him, and this is
the perfect example, Like it's I mean.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
It was he left his mark, no pun intended, right.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
But I'm saying by her scratching him, yes right.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I'm saying, yes, what he told you, like, oh, yes,
he left his mark on you. But it's also an
ironic statement. Absolutely, So this DNA link gave the police
some leads. So, for one, they had details from the
two thousand and five victim about her assailant because she

(58:19):
didn't die. Are you all right?

Speaker 2 (58:25):
I'm drinking? And I went to respond to that, I'm like,
where's been I'm not even holding it.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Well, about a year ago, you wouldn't even have noticed.
So I think that's.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Improvement, all right, I'm with you. I'm bick.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So likely a description of his appearance and any aliases
or behavior he exhibited. They knew, for instance, that the
offender in two thousand and five was around eighteen, and
he had a pattern of targeting women in vulnerable situations.
Police suspected that after two thousand and five, the perpetrator

(59:02):
might have relocated or gone underground. They now publicized the connection,
hoping someone might recall a man from the area who
had suddenly left town or bragged about such crimes. The
case dominated local headlines for weeks. The Vernon Morning Star,
which was a regional paper, ran front page stories on
every development for five consecutive editions. Tips from the public

(59:27):
trickled in, and behind the scenes, the police were narrowing
down suspects. As the DNA news hit the media. Taylor's
family and the town of Armstrong felt a mix of emotions.
On one hand, they felt relief because at least there
was a concrete lead. On the other, a new wave
of fear because this killer had struck before and he
hadn't been caught then, So there was a quote that

(59:51):
said we continued to be haunted by this tragedy, which
was from somebody in the community. Many people in Armstrong,
everyday life had changed. Fewer people went out alone, and
the kind of quiet vigilance became the norm of this
once like carefree little town. The police reassured the public

(01:00:14):
that this case was their top priority and that they
were determined to catch the perpetrator before he could hurt
anyone else. As winter turned into spring of twenty twelve,
investigators finally honed in on a prime suspect, Matthew Forster

(01:00:36):
Foe r st Er.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Yeah Forster, I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
A twenty six year old man from Cherryville, British Columbia.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
And how close was that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Just like an hour's drive away. Yeah, So Matthew's family
lived in Cherryville. Matthew fit the profile in many ways,
and crucially, he had been in that region back in
two thousand and five when that assault had occurred on
the first woman. So once his name surfaced, the police

(01:01:13):
likely obtained a warrant for his DNA and confirmed that
Matthew's DNA matched the samples from both Taylor and the
two thousand and five sexual assault.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
So although they were obviously closing in on him when
they went to arrest him, they had discovered that he
had fled.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
It turned out that Matthew had left British Columbia and
gone into hiding across the country. Later it would be
revealed that his own father, whose name was Stephen, had
helped him escape the area once Matthew realized that police
were on his trail.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Which makes me wonder though, what he told his father,
Like how much his father truly knew? Was he just like, hey, dad,
I gotta get out of town, like some shit went down?
Or is he like I actually killed someone?

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Two people?

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
No? No?

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
The first one survived.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yes. Yeah. So in fact, Steven purchased a fake ID
for five hundred dollars so that Matthew could assume a
false identity on the run.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I hope his father got charged.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Well, I'm sure he did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
For several months, Matthew moved in secret, knowing that evidence
was pointing to him. The police enlisted resources nationwide defined him,
coordinating with Ontario police when tips suggested Matthew might be
hiding out there. It was a very tense time. Matthew
was desperate and potentially dangerous. Well, I think a little

(01:02:53):
more than potentially.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Finally, after a five month manhunt, the law caught up
with Matthew good Yes. On April fourth, twenty twelve, police
officers located and arrested Matthew in a small town in Ontario.
So he was reportedly captured in the town of Collingwood, Ontario,

(01:03:17):
where he had been laying low. When the news broke,
a wave of relief swept through Armstrong and the kind
of you know, like the neighboring communities. So he was
arrested in Ontario on April fourth in relation to the murder.
At last, the suspected killer was in custody and he
was on his way back to British Columbia to face justice.

(01:03:41):
Matthew was charged with first degree murder for Taylor's death,
as well as a string of other charges related to
the two thousand and five attack. The community's collective anxiety
began to ease because Armstrong's mayor later reflected that the
arrest allowed the town to return to a little bit

(01:04:01):
more of that quiet, lackadaisical town that it had been before,
Although he did say scars remained well. Of course, for
Taylor's family, seeing that Matthew was charged was a step
towards justice, but many difficult days lay ahead in the court. Interestingly,

(01:04:22):
in May twenty fourteen, so two years after Matthew's capture,
his father, Stephen, also faced consequences for his role in
helping his son flee. I thought you were gonna say good.
I was thinking all right. Stephen pleaded guilty to being
an accessory after the fact to Taylor's murder, admitting he

(01:04:45):
assisted Matthew's attempted escape. He was sentenced to three years
in prison for that crime. Stephen's case underscored how even
the killer's family was drawn into this tragedy. With Matthew
in custody, the public finally got got a look at
the man who was accused of these heinous crimes. So
in twenty eleven, Matthew was twenty six years old. Now

(01:05:08):
by the time he was on trial, he was twenty eight.
He was a stocky young man from rural Cherryville. On
the surface, his upbringing was not especially remarkable. He was
working sorry, he was from a working class family, But
as investigators dug into his background, a disturbing history of
violence was emerging, so he had never met Taylor before.

(01:05:32):
She was a complete stranger to him. Yet evidence showed
that he had a pattern of attacking women who crossed
his path. So years earlier, in two thousand and four,
when Matthew was only eighteen years old, he had broken
into the home of a young woman in Cherryville. He
crept into her house at night, he woke her up,

(01:05:54):
and when she screamed, he slammed her head against a wall,
and he like This attempted sexual assault was only interrupted
when the terrified woman's screams forced him to flee. The
very next year, two thousand and five, was when he

(01:06:16):
had attacked the sex worker at that agency. Neither of
those crimes resulted in his capture at the time, so
he went unidentified obviously for a long time. He later
confessed that he had been abusing drugs and alcohol heavily
during those years, and indeed, on the day he killed Taylor,

(01:06:38):
he was reportedly intoxicated on vodka, beer, marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms.
I'd be in the er for real, but that's new
that it's neither here nor there. But may I.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Say like not to say, you don't hear about situations
where people commit murder and on several different things that
you know that they're found to be in their system.
But it's always insane to me. They were able to
accomplish what they accomplished that heavily.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Of course, I just that's crazy. He doesn't even have
three martinis. And I'm shaking in the corner because of
my panic for martinis.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
That three is a lot. I mean, you've got to
be I feel like a seasoned martini drinkers whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Three drinks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Well, I'm just saying, you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Know, well you're seasoned.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
I can't do three martinis.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Maybe not anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I have never done three.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Listen, let's take a trip down memory lane for a second.
Quite early on in our friendship, back when we were
still going out places, you know, like to the Berrs.
We went to one of our mutual friend's house one
one night before. Not keep in mind, neither of us
were driving, So none of this is you know, I mean,
it's alarming, but none of it's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Not a safety right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
How you went into the kitchen to make a drink.
I was gonna say, to fix a drink, But you
tell me if this is actually fixing one or just
pouring vodka into a glass. She filled a glass with
some ice and then just poured vodka in it. I
did to the top and our friend came in and said, oh, like,
what did you make in there? And I said, oh, no,

(01:08:28):
that is just vodka. So it is true. I don't
know why you're saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
I would never drink it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
I must gaslighting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
I must have put a splash of seltzer in. I
must have.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Maybe you squeezed the lemon and I don't know. My
point is you used to be seasoned.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
That is true. My tolerance used to be nice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Did we tell that about about you and the napkin?

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Oh my god, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Italian and I when we went to the beach once,
like we stayed open. I mean we were with friends.
We stayed overnight for multiple nights, and you know, there's
bars right next to where we're staying, and it was
always a fun time to go out at night and
be bop around. And you know, she was definitely throwing
them back before we even left the place, right And

(01:09:26):
then we get to the bar and she's ordering more and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Then I disappeared.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yeah, she was gone, and I saw her like not
even I wouldn't say, well, sort of hunched over in
the corner, not because she was like throwing up or anything,
but I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Was standing she was.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
I was working on something, and I walked over and
I was like, you know, what are you doing over here?
And she had a napkin twisted like pretty tight, like
a rope almost, and she was dipping it into her
drink so that it was sucking up some of it,

(01:10:05):
and then putting that napkin into the trash. And she
kept doing this because she said she didn't want to
spill her drink, like it was too high. So I said, well,
why don't you just take a sip of it before
you start walking? That's all I remember of that night.
But she wanted to what would you call that, siphon
it away clever? So I thought that's one word for it. Yes, right,

(01:10:30):
anyway back to this, okay, so his so, okay, I
had just told you how he was under all the stuff.
His defense lawyer would claim that all of his criminal
acts were fueled by substance abuse and that he wasn't
in his right mind, I see, But prosecutors and police

(01:10:54):
saw a predator who repeatedly targeted women whether he was
sober or not. As one investigator put it, history shows
a history of extreme violence towards women. So Matthew, at
a relatively young age, had already started this legacy of violence.
After Matthew's arrest in twenty twelve, he actually pled guilty

(01:11:16):
to the two thousand and four home invasion and the
two thousand and five sexual assault. Once confronted with the
DNA evidence linking him. He received a combined six year
sentence for those earlier crimes. However, obviously, the murder of
Taylor that was going to be tried separately in the

(01:11:38):
Supreme Court of British Columbia, and Matthew initially pleaded not
guilty to that charge. He did not deny that he
had attacked Taylor, but he contested the charge of first
degree murder, hoping to be found guilty of a lesser
degree of homicide. So basically, if we look at what

(01:12:03):
happened that night, like what was going on there in
simple terms, here he was a man who was driving
through Armstrong on Halloween night looking for trouble. Apparently, so
it seems like Matthew was in Armstrong that evening, he
saw a young girl, Taylor, walking alone in a costume,

(01:12:23):
and the worst of his impulses took over, so he
likely followed Taylor, you know, kind of like behind her
in the shadows. She noticed, and she tried to alert
her friends with the being creeped text message, but Matthew
was very fast and obviously very aggressive. He attacked her
from behind near the railway tracks before she could reach

(01:12:46):
safety or get help. So during subsequent court proceedings, Matthew
eventually admitted the gruesome details of what he did. He
said he strangled Taylor with his hands and a shoelace,
and well when she fell to the ground, he smashed
her skull repeatedly with a heavy flashlight. These admissions matched

(01:13:08):
exactly what the forensic evidence had said happened and painted
a horrifying picture of this random encounter with a basically monster.
And the prosecutor put it and said, quote unquote, the
most terrifying act imaginable murder by a complete stranger. So

(01:13:33):
now Matthew's trial begins in March twenty fourteen. The proceedings
were closely followed by the media and had been like
the community was obviously very interested in all of this.
So Matthew was charged with first degree murder, exactly what
he was trying to avoid, which in Canada means the

(01:13:53):
killing was planned and deliberate, or committed during another violent
felony like sexual assault. From the onset. Matthew's defense conceded
that he had caused the injuries that led to Taylor's death.
He could hardly deny it with the DNA evidence and
his own prior confessions. But what they had argued was
that he had not planned to kill her. Therefore that

(01:14:20):
they were saying he should not be convicted of first
degree murder, but something lesser.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
He's a saint. He did not intend.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
You sound very sarkistic.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
I'm being facetious.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Matthew himself did not take the stand, but through his lawyers,
he essentially admitted to attacking Taylor while arguing it wasn't
premeditated so this was an unusual strategy, but effectively saying, yes,
I did it, but I didn't mean to kill her.
All right, Well, however it was you know, the prosecution

(01:14:55):
pushed firmly for first degree conviction, and which is what
he got. The trial was harrowing for the Taylor family.
Which I can't. I mean for the tailor, for Taylor's family,
which of course.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Oh, I can't imagine that torture.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
They sat through this graphic testimony about the attack. The
pathologist described Taylor's injuries in clinical, you know, but gut
wrenching detail, talking about skull fractures and strangulation and these
freaking broken fingers which just ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
And having to sit in the same room as him,
the same space like nightmare.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
They were talking about how these injuries showed just how
much Taylor wanted to live, which of course devastated her
family and made her mother start crying and all of
this stuff. Outside court, her father told journalists that hearing
how his daughter suffered was horrific and painful, extremely painful.
I just hope she was unconscious during the worst of it,
he said, I would rather have had it been me

(01:15:53):
than her. So it was. It was revealed that the
DNA under Taylor's nails, like I said, matched the two
thousand and five rate, so that obviously cemented his identify
as the attacker. The judge instructed the jury carefully on
how to use this evidence, though as required by law,
they could consider it for the identification and intent, but

(01:16:14):
not convict solely because he seemed like a bad person
with a record. Fair is fair. After weeks of testimony,
the jury had obviously a vivid and chilling picture of
what had happened. They went through the whole timeline all
of those things. So in April twenty fourteen, the jury

(01:16:37):
delivered the verdict. Matthew was found guilty of first degree murder.
So for the first time, Taylor's family felt some type
of vindication in that moment. So first degree murder carries
an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for
twenty five years in Canada. So, at age twenty eight,
Matthew was led away in handcuffs to spend effective the

(01:17:00):
next quarter century behind bars. Outside the courthouse, reporters captured
a scene of somber satisfaction because it looked as though
justice had finally been served. Now, what's interesting is the
legal saga was not actually over yet, because Matthew's lawyers

(01:17:21):
promptly launched an appeal of this conviction. In twenty seventeen,
the British Columbia Court of Appeal found that the trial
judge had made an error in the instructions given to
the jury, which is a technical but important issue. The

(01:17:44):
error was serious enough that Matthew's first degree murder conviction
was overturned on appeal in early twenty seventeen. Wow, and
a new trial was ordered. This was obviously horrible for
Taylor's family because now they're thinking, we have to sit

(01:18:04):
through another trial and relive this horror again.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
And her mother literally said I don't think I can
take any more so when she learned about this potential
thing here, right, So, the thought of possibly seeing a
jury downgrade the conviction or worse, acquit him after all
that they had been through was terrifying. Facing the likelihood
of a second trial, something unexpected happened. Matthew chose to

(01:18:31):
plead guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I am shocked he took a deal.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
In March twenty eighteen, rather than put everyone through another
courtroom battle, thirty two year old Matthew pleaded guilty to
second degree murder for Taylor's death. In doing so, he
accepted responsibility for killing Taylor, but without admitting that it
was planned or that he was trying to sexually assault her,

(01:18:58):
which they never did say there were any sexual things
for this particular one.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Yeah, now, I assume you're going to say, I was
going to ask you what is the difference in sentencing?

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
You know what happens when you assume where was it here? Okay?
So and so the defense made a joint sentencing submission
to the judge, essentially an agreement on what the sentencing
should be. They recommended life in prison with no chance
of parole for seventeen years instead of what twenty five

(01:19:34):
it was. So and you know, they negotiated this number
based on a couple of things. Second degree murdering Canada
carries a mandatory life sentence as well, but the parole
ineligibility can be anywhere from ten to twenty five years
at the judge's discretion. So in this case, seventeen years

(01:19:54):
was the number that they settled on, which of course
is less than twenty five. So on June fourth through
the fifth, twenty eighteen, the re sentencing hearing took place.
Taylor's family once again gathered in court along with local
supporters and media. This hearing was largely a formality since

(01:20:19):
Matthew had already pled guilty, but it was an opportunity
for impact statements and for the judge to confirm the sentence.
So Justice Brenda Brown was the presiding judge. As the
proceeding began, Matthew sat almost motionless, clad in blue jeans,
a blue shirt, and white sneakers. He kept his eyes forward,

(01:20:42):
avoiding looking at any of Taylor's family across the room.
When Justice Brown formally pronounced the agreed sentence life imprisonment
with no possibility of parole for seventeen years, Matthew did
finally show a flicker of a mo He stood up
and turned to face Taylor's family, speaking in a low,

(01:21:05):
halting voice to deliver an apology.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
So he read from a prepared statement, Wow, And he
said this, I'm so sorry that I have taken your
loved one. There isn't a day that goes by that
I don't feel regret. I wish more than anything I
could take back what I did.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Yes, So, this was the first time he had directly
addressed the family since this nightmare began. He spoke of
his remorse and claimed that he had changed during his
years in prison. Matthew's defense lawyer emphasized that Matthew had
been sober since his arrest and he was attending alcoholics
Anonymous and other rehabilitation programs in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
It's just hard I think in those situations when the
more apologizes, and it just always makes me wonder, like
or doubt I guess the sincerity that they're apologizing for
taking her life, Like how would affects to me family?
Like are you sorry about that? Or are you sorry

(01:22:15):
about the trouble you doing that? Like what your actions
for yourself that you literally threw your life away?

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Right? I feel like you can never really know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
A prison report noted that Matthew had gone from being
a high risk inmate to a medium security inmate who
was making progress. The defense's argument was clear that Matthew
was not the same person who committed those crimes while
high on alcohol and drugs, and that he was trying
to better himself while behind bars. But to Taylor's family,

(01:22:46):
these words were hollow. Oh yeah, so. Her mother later
said that Matthew's courtroom apology felt utterly empty. Not once
did he mention Taylor's name. She said, I thought of
that too.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
The way he said yeah, I thought that was an
odd term.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
In his apology. He had referred to your loved one,
skirting even saying Taylor's name out loud so to Marie,
the omission spoke volumes about Matthew's sincerity. During her victim statement,
Marie did not mince words. She said, this has created
a gaping wound within me, she told the court, describing

(01:23:28):
life after losing Taylor. This sentencing is merely an act
of adding salt to the wound. She and her family
were adamant that seventeen years without parole, meaning that Matthew
could walk free as early as twenty twenty nine, felt
far too lenient of a consequence for a brutal murder

(01:23:48):
of an eighteen year old girl. Outside the courthouse, Marie
expressed outrage. She said, that's not very long for taking
a life, particularly as brutally as he had taken taylor life. So,
by her math, considering the time he'd already spent in
custody since twenty twelve, it amounted to only about eleven
more years going forward.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
I thought of that with the time served like it's gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
So, she said, it's a travesty that Taylor's life is
now only worth eleven years of punishment. The community also
agreed with her family's frustrations. Many had hoped that Matthew
might never have a shot of walking free again. However,
the judge appointed. The judge pointed out that twenty five
year parole ineligibility is rarely given, except in cases of

(01:24:39):
multiple murders. In accepting the seventeen seventeen year recommendation, Justice
Brown likely considered that Matthew's guilty plea spared everyone a
painful retrial and indicated some acceptance of responsibility.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
True, but I don't know. If I were the family,
I would even though I wouldn't have wanted to sit
through the trial again, if it meant that he would
have had. I don't know. I guess how do you
even say until you're in that stage.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Yeah, I was going to say, don't I know what
you're saying? But yeah, so, and it was also acknowledged
that proving first degree murder in a reed trial could
be challenging because they would have to prove beyond a
reasonable doubt that Matthew fatally injured Taylor while attempting to
sexually assault her, which was an element that was not

(01:25:36):
conclusively talked about or resolved in the first trial. So,
with the sentence pronounced, Matthew would be in his early
forties when he was eligible for parole in twenty twenty nine.
Canadian law does allow a faint hope review a bit earlier,

(01:25:57):
in twenty twenty seven, but only if a judge and
then a parole board were to be extraordinarily convinced of
his rehabilitation. So as he was led out of the
courtroom to begin serving his life term, Matthew's mother wept
softly and she was, you know, basically crying no matter what,

(01:26:20):
multiple families have been ruined by this case, so then,
you know, obviously the aftermath, I mean, the community was
never the same after that, exactly, but they did show
some remarkable resilience. They were unified in honoring Taylor's memory,
so there was a lot of gestures and support of
remembrance for her. There were candlelight vigils, you know, hundreds

(01:26:46):
of people attended her funeral. There was a trust fund
set up by the local credit union to help the
family with their expenses. So like very supportive, and I
guess one of the most touching tributes came from Taylor's
own family, with support from the city of Armstrong. They
wanted to transform the very place that had been the

(01:27:09):
scene of this horrible crime into something positive and safe.
So in the years after Taylor's death, her family helped
establish the Taylor Jade Van dist Memorial Trail, which was
a one hundred and eighty five meter trail linking Rosedale Avenue,

(01:27:30):
which is where Taylor had walked that night, to Pleasant
Valley Road. This trail was built with help from the
city and the local railway company, essentially turning the once
dark shortcut by the tracks into a proper paved pathway
in Taylor's honor.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
That's beautiful. That was a very nice idea and that
the family could like participate in that I think was great,
Like right, I'm sure very healing.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
As of twenty twenty one, a full decade after the murder,
Armstrong had not had any other homicide. The town slowly
returned to its friendly rhythms. But I mean imagine Halloween, like,
I'm sure that gives people something to freaking talk about
each year when October thirty first rolls around. I got
the chills, oh so worthy. Many in Armstrong quietly think

(01:28:20):
of Taylor. Some leave flowers on the trail that they built,
Others post tributes on social media, or they basically just
keep an eye on their children. A little a little
extra close basically on Halloween night. So I don't know,
I mean that's pretty much it. Like I said, I

(01:28:41):
mean that the time for Matthew's thing is coming up,
but not yet. And yeah, it was. That's the story
of Taylor, the case of Taylor. I should say.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
Thank you well, may Taylor rests in peace. And of
course I think you did a very good job. Tons
of info and.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
And I know that they I did not watch much
of this. I only saw a few little clips, but
they do have like the police interrogation of Matthew.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Really, from what you did watch, was he like argumentative
or defensive or very No.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
He wasn't really argumentative from what I saw. But I
also saw the clip that the clip that I was watching,
the police were using like that tactic tactic of like
good cop, not even bad cop, just good cop. They
were like super sweet and like encouraging of him to
be like like, look, this isn't even about you saying

(01:29:45):
you murdered her. It's just about giving the family closure,
like trying to like take the pressure in the spotlight
off of him so that he would confess. Basically, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Well, And speaking of that, I always think it's interesting
how you said, you know during I think you said
it was during the trial that he gave the details
as to or maybe that that's how the details had
come out about what exactly he did with her or
did to her. I should say, you know how he
strangled her with his hand and then the shoelace, and
how he admitted using the flashlight. It's always like I

(01:30:20):
marvel at that. Not I shouldn't probably use that word.
I'm not, like you know, in all of them, but
murderers who do give up those details, Yeah, I always
am just shocked by it. I always think, like, why
wouldn't you hold that under your hat until you die?
Like I just I love when they do it, and
I think it definitely helps with obviously an investigation and

(01:30:41):
solving a crime and right enclosure for the family probably,
But I just it blows my mind that anyone ever
does that.

Speaker 5 (01:30:50):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
And I mean, I don't think in this case this
would be true, but I think in other cases they're
probably it's almost like what like a badge of honor.
I mean, some of them, I think, are proud of
what seeds been happening.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
So you're right, But.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Anyway, you know, I thought this was a what would
you say, A good.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
Thank you? So yeah, and obviously, you know, a good
reminder for like on Halloween, on trick or treat nights
and stuff like. You know, as much as we'd like
to think, it is not all fun and games out there,
so I don't know, take that for what you will.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
But well, and they're all going to be hearing this
way path Halloween that just occurres.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
But Halloween comes every year, baby, thankfully she does. So
all right, Well, everybody, thank you for tuning back in
with Talia and I. We always appreciate it absolutely, and

(01:32:07):
we'll catch you in the next episode. But until then,
stay safe and stay chill.

Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
Bye everybody, goodbye.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
You've just listened to Chilworthy. Thank you for joining us
on this latest episode. While we strive to keep our
discussions engaging and lighthearted, we also wanted to take a
moment to acknowledge the real lives and events that are
at the heart of these stories.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
We try to approach each topic with a sense of
curiosity and respect fully aware of the impact these events
have had on the individuals and their loved ones. Our
goal is to honor their memories by keeping their stories
alive and shedding light on the mysteries that surround them.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate,
and leave a view, and don't forget to join us
on the next episode of Chilworthy.

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