Tracks of Deception: The Mysterious Death of Tiffany Valiante

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Chillworthy.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
A podcast where two best friends discuss mysteries, murders, and
anything in between for your enjoyment.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
So if you're ready to hear some chilling and unsettling cases,
you're in the right place, happy listening. Hello, Hello, everyone,
Welcome back to another episode of Chillworthy with your host
Brenton Talia. Hi, everybody, how you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm doing very well.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
How are you good? Good? So, have you been reading
any books? Okay, we'll lay it on me.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Not much. I mean I have been reading, but I
am very proud of myself. I'm delayed because I started several.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
And quit, and you know, good, I think that's great.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't feel great saying it, man, But you know
that rule that I mentioned last time about the fifty pages.
I think I even touched on this last time that
I had started some and then like quit before I
even got to that point, it kept happening.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
So, because you deserve to read books that you enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And don't waste time, right right, because.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You're not in school, nobody is going to say, hey,
remember that book that you picked up, when did you
finish it?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
You're right, I know when you're right, You're right, I know.
So the one which actually I was listening to one
of our episodes the other day, I like stopped listening
to us for a while and then I went back
to it. And I don't even know how long ago
this was, but it was when I got this one,
or was thinking about getting it. Wild Dark Shore, but
I called it Wild Dark Coast and it's haunting me

(01:44):
big time. So major correction. It is Wild Dark Shore.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
This is the Scottish thing. Yeah, well there.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Were two scott No, no, no, no, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Not the one with the beautiful landscape.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Correct. No, oh okay, this one is an island off Antarctica.
It's fictional, but it's based off of real island that
exists in that area. This is like is a dystopian
climate change. World is changing, very sad. Oh my god.
The imagery and like the animals that live on this
island and the plants, and then one of the main
well the mainland where these people were originally living is Australia.

(02:19):
So then they started talking about like animals in Australia
and plants and this one type of tree that is
real and was apparently around when dinosaurs were around. I
was googling all of it.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Dinosaurs checked out.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh my god, it was just incredible. It was so sad,
so wah.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Sad, so sad.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I cannot emphasize that enough. Trigger warnings out the wazoo,
the wazoo. Yeah, so if you're going to read it, definitely,
well I'm talking to the child. I know you won't,
but you know, mentions of sexual assault, suicide, multiple drownings,

(03:03):
a lot of parent child themes just very heavy, and
definitely look into that before you start. And then speaking
of you know, wildly sad The Women by Kristin Hannah,
which I've read books by her before. She does a
really good job. She doesn't only write historical fiction. But

(03:26):
that's like a big I know you don't like it.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I didn't say that my face just a sour face. Well,
I was just thinking in my head. Do you so
like when I'm looking for a book, it'll be like fantasy, horror?
What do you look for just sad? You just say,
like to Goodreads sad or like what is it.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I look at? Like what just came out? And then
if you go on the website. I don't know if
the app does this too. I guess it does it
must It'll give you like four or five recommendations based
off like book you're checking out and read, like not reading,
but reading the description of then like I go on this.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
So you're just swinging from tree to tree to tree.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Perfect analogy. Yes, and then it's wonderful. They know what
I'm after.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
It's one word. Yeah, all right, So anyway, the women
pressing historical fiction.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yes, it's about the women, like the nurses in the
Vietnam War. And I know nothing about the Vietnam War.
I'm like two seconds away from finishing this book, like
I will be finishing it tonight, and I cannot wait.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
All I think about as far as Gump, Yes, good call.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
I always whenever as you know, this comes up, I
always immediately think of your mother, and she makes this
movie every single I can't think of Forest Company more
without that fun fact.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, it's been a long time since I've seen Forrest Gump.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Oh my god. It's on every now and then, and
I always put it on. It's a very nostalgic movie
for me, Like that was a lot when we were kids. Yeah,
you know, when I was a kid singularly not.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
But when you were a kid. I was a kid
as well, if you can believe.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean, like, oh, we were hunkering down in the
living room watching.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh No not together, right right under a blanket tent,
which I think that would have been nice to be honest.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
For that movie. Hell yeah, during the mom soon.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Scenes Jumungi would have been nice to watch in the tent.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, yes, God, that's such a good movie, one of
my saves. So anyway, that's that. So I've got to
have something lined up once I finished this tonight. Now
there's one called The Beasting that I did check out,
like through Libby, but I haven't. I haven't started it. Well,
I read like three pages.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Of it, but that's it.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
The authors from Ireland.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's a man the Dublin Martyrs Squad.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
This isn't one of those. It's not like I think, no,
but I mean like, it's not a mystery or a thriller.
Paul Murray is his name, And I've seen this book
of bookstores. It's a big boy, so it's gonna.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Be didn't we did we see that when we were
just out?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Oh, I'm sure we did. It's it's still out and
I feel like it was released definitely a year ago,
if not too.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh all right, I thought maybe you picked it up,
but I know you picked up all the water in
the world and whatever.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Oh my god. And so speaking of that, so when
you and I, is that that's when I got it?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
No? Isn't that what I got?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yes, it's a little bookstory. Yes, So I now have
not started it, and I don't think I can because
then it hit me a lot of similarities between Wild
Dark Shore. Ye, I'll say, but like even in terms
of like it's a family and they're trying to stay
alive together and blah blah blah, like it's a lot
of like central themes it sounds like. But god, I

(06:47):
want to read it bad.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
And the reason you can't is well, because.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Maybe i'll read it next, because I just read Wild
Dark Shore, like I sort of want to break and
read something different and then oh, oh there's this climate.
She still be a novel waiting for me.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
But I want to read it bad.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Well, I would still love for you to read No, seratu.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm scared. What's that about? Again?

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I can't either.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Still little summary.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
No, like we said, it's by Stephen King's son and
so it's like built in like a normal world like
what we are in. But there are people that have
like special abilities. They're very rare and they keep you know,
they keep it under wraps. And so this girl has
a special ability when so like she discovered it when

(07:37):
she was a kid, that if she gets on her
bike and she starts driving or riding, she can kind
of go into this like trance state and whatever she's
looking for or whoever she's looking for, Like this bridge
appears out of nowhere, this like what's it called a
covered bridge? She goes in the other side, she comes

(07:58):
out where she wants to be, finding the object or
the person or the place. So like her great grandfather, sure,
well if he was alive, yes, her umbrella from first grade?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, yes, wait now only if people are living.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well or your I guess she'd end up at the cemetery.
She's not a time traveler, is what I'm trying to say. So,
but yes, I mean if you if you lost your
credit card yesterday, theoretically that's you could do that, Like
you left it, you were traveling, you left it an
hour away, you don't know where it was, though, you

(08:35):
could do that. So anyway, we're getting too bogged down
onto her power. But sorry, Yes, so that's what she
can do. So she's one of these people. There's another
person out there that uses which I think you would like. Actually,
she uses what's that word, scrabble the game. Yes, she
has a bag like like a little pouch with all

(08:57):
these scrabble pieces and yes, the tiles and she pulls
them out and throws them out like ruins and then
they spell out words and she can predict things like that.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, this sounds delightful so far, right, do these people
know each other?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Eventually they do know each other because they're trying to
stop the bad guy. And the bad guy is another
one of these people with special powers, and he has
this ability to he I guess, created like a pocket dimension,
like a tiny little world that he can get to,

(09:35):
and he steals children and he puts them into this
like special car that can go there. It's like a
it's like a like a twenties style old antique whatever
those were. I don't even remember, but you know, like
the kind that are like a real long like it
had the real long funny front.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
You're saying all of this because just when you said
about how he takes children. It made me think of
the child snatcher in Chitty Chitty.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Band, which I've never seen.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Oh my god, just YouTube a snippet of the child
snatcher and so horrifying. And in that movie obviously are
feel like, are the cars not Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
the car? But the cars in that movie that were
nice are making me think of what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I want to say, like a Rolls roy so I
you know, car, it is a car with whatever this
is is a car. It's just an old fashioned the
kind that like old the kind that like like a
chauffeur would drive around town probably like in the nineteen
twenty is like a very rich person Cruella Deville. Yeah,
I think yes, basically like that whatever that is is

(10:41):
the car that this man has.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Not car people, if you know able to.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's not our demographic. But so he steals children, takes
them to a place called Christmas Land. But it's all
sick and twisted, like it's very gross, you know, like
bloody well, like the snowmen have teeth, and you know,
like the moon is up in the sky and it's
like looking down at you with this weird face and

(11:06):
it's just grotesque, and the kids turned into monsters. But
this is how he keeps himself alive, basically by feeding
this little world. My point is she wants to she
wants to stop him, and that's the whole book. But
it is such a damn good book.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
So so you've said, you've said it for years.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I know, and I stand by it. Anyway, my I
did just start a book, but I'm barely I've barely
scratched the surface. But it's let me doublen.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Have you finished anything since we met.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Last I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Once I reading, I feel like you said nothing or
you have.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well then no, oh, it's a it's called Witchcraft for
Wayward Girls.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
I that was there the other day when we.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Went so anyway, yes, the Witchcraft Awayward Girls. It's like
about it's about a house that takes in pregnant teenage girls.
I forget what the era is, but it's not modern times,
and nothing's happened so far. She just got there, The
main character just got there. There's a bunch of girls,

(12:18):
all pregnant in different stages, and it's like this kind
of desolate house out in the wilderness.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
What country are they in? Is it England.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
No, I think it's America.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, yeah, well report back. I've heard about that one
for so long, but I don't know nothing ever drew
me to actually start it.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, so anyway, But I mean, it's good for what
it is so far, but it's not much. But I'm
not like turned off by it. So perfect. Last, but
not least, I'm sure everybody's waiting with baited breath for
my fun fish facts of the week.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh my god, that reminded me the little seahorse in
the little murmur. Yes, with those little doily collar on.
He's so stinking cutie.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
So the little facts about my platty fish that I
have because I've got about six of them. So they're
live bearers, which means they just have babies, right, no eggs, no, right,
no eggs. They just get pregnant.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like seahorses, right, seahorse seahorses.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
And that's it, and then they have them. They come
in a wide variety of colors black, white, orange, blue,
and like metallic like those ones when they turn yes,
very shimmery. Some are like you know, dalmatian spotted.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Are they the ones that I always think remind me
of labradorite. I might be thinking of did you name
the downstairs tank it?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
No, but I think you're thinking of like guppies, who
are unfortunately not with us anymore, so scratch the Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
This is strictly in Atlantica.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yes, peaceful, they're peaceful. Number three, quite peaceful. Actually, apparently
they're very easy to breed. It's supposed to only take
forty days from when you get them in a tank,
which I'm coming real close to that time. So we
should start seeing little babies swimming around. Oh definitely, yeah,

(14:26):
because you can tell the female and males apart, so
there's definitely both of them in there. Shit. So now
they are probably going to have like forty babies to
one fish, but I would think maybe like two would survive.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
So but because because other things are going to eat there.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yes, probably, And that's why I was like, I'm not
watching this too closely. This isn't going to be like
a nature documentary rough neighborhood, right, I'm just gonna be
I mean, it shouldn't be a rough neighborhood. But you know,
when there's little tiny fish swimming around and bigger fish
are swimming around, that's what's going to happen. So that's
why I told you, I just want to be a
natural tank an ecosystem like have a you have babies,

(15:09):
cool one, a few of them survive, awesome. There's tons
of right, there's tons of plants, there's tons of places
to hide. So it's just if you can do it,
you can do it. And I'm rooting for you, right, so,
which I am. And then the last one is what
I just said. You can tell the males and females

(15:30):
apart because they're little one of their little whatever. Those
the fins, not the dorsal fin, but the fins on
the bottom of their stomachs. The males are like longer
and the females are like a fan.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Oh interesting, so very obvious.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, once they spread them out like sometimes they're close
up to their body and then you can't really tell.
But as long as they like have them in like
their extended state, then that's how you know. But I
am going to run out of these fish facts, which
I'm assuming people are gonna be.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Like, who, because get out of.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I'm getting out. I don't have many more things in
the tank.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, maybe you could start a list of things you hope.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
To maybe, and I mean I do have one more thing,
so at least but.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Anyway leaked that, but maybe you did.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yes, not everyone cut it or cared.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I'll stop.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
So all right, I guess we've hit the fifteen minute mark,
so I guess we're ready to go. All right, So
today's case is the case of Tiffany Valente. We're just
going to dive in. I guess, right, Okay, all right,
so this is the case of Tiffany Valente. So let's

(16:52):
imagine a nice summer night in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh you know what I immediately think.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I couldn't say the crickets, the bugs.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Absolutely, Did you like the Wonder Years? Then Savage?

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, I thought it was a very depressive.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
I was just going to say, did you think it
was said?

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, I loved it. My father was like back like
when I was little, I mean he was he would
watch that all the time.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Nick at night. Absolutely, it's for block party summer.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
I loved those bewitch be Wednesday. Hell yeah, I dream
a Jeanie Thursday.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Just gonna say that. And then no, wait, Wonder Years.
Those two you just meant, Oh, I know the monsters.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh Monster Monday.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
I love the monsters. God, I loved that show so much.
I remember vividly as a kid in the summer, taking
my bath, getting into my summer pajamis. My hair would
still be wet. Sometimes my mom would braid it didn't
need to happen though, it doesn't matter, but still it
brought it up, and I would get so excited for

(18:07):
block party summer.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I mean, hey, you like what you like? You know?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh my god, yeah, wonderful summer memories I do.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I remember, yeah that as well. I would sometime
I would sleep downstairs living room to watch like Bewitched
all night. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't stay up all night,
but you know, ye, so back to the bugs, Well
not really, you brought the bugs up.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, back to the summer night.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yes, fine. So so it's a summer night in New Jersey.
An eighteen year old girl leaves a family party and
never comes home. So that's what we're in for.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's Tiffany.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yes, so Tiffany Valente. She was now going eighteen year
old from May's Landing, New Jersey. She had just graduated
from Oak Crest High School and she was six' to two,
shit so she was quite tall at that age, too you.

(19:09):
Know she had a very athletic, build so she was
talented sports, wise sports ball, wise, right and she was
kind of like a volleyball star in her high. School.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah so.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Scholarships, Yes in, fact she earned a scholarship to play
volleyball At Mercy college In New. York, huh which reminds
me Of Mercy, brown the First.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Vampire oh my, GOSH i forgot all about that. Episode
when you just said, That i'm, THINKING i, KNOW i
know that, name BUT i can't place. It that was
a good freaking. Episode, Man, yeah that was.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
GOOD i would like to do more of, those like
really historic vampirical. Something. Yeah but, anyway, so, yeah so
she was really really good at. Volleyball she got a
scholarship To Mercy, college and she was excited to. GO
i guess she was already starting to text her future
roommate about dorm decor but he likes that word, no

(20:11):
and looking forward to starting college that. Fall So tiffany
was close with her. Family she lived with her parents
as most eighteen year olds, do, Absolutely diane And, stephen
and she had two older. Sisters so friends had described
her as the type of person who was always there
to help and ready to find the silver lining in any.
Situation by all, accounts she had a lot to look forward, to,

(20:35):
which you, know there's a reason That i'm saying this.
Stuff she was excited about, things so she was planning
summer beach trips in a Six flag outing with friends coming.
Up she also worked part time at a local wah
wah convenience. Store did you like Six?

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Flags did you ever go to?

Speaker 1 (20:52):
That? WIE i could go to that. PLACE i, MEAN
i liked all amusement parks UNTIL i. Didn't didn't. HAPPENED
i think ONCE i started getting like you, Know i've
SAID I i have like anxiety and, stuff AND i
think ONCE i started getting panic, ATTACKS I i the
idea of getting strapped into a roller. COASTER i don't

(21:13):
like NOT i don't like being able to not freely.
Move so like that's not for me, ANYMORE i don't.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Think but as a, kid you definitely oh.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah oh, yeah, yeah yeah did?

Speaker 4 (21:22):
YOU i?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Did and then what sort of fizzled that for? ME
i still go on, things but not LIKE i used, To,
LIKE i have some you, know like nervousness around it
because of the motion. Sickness Oh i'm, Older, yeah so
but it's LIKE i feel like kind of hit or,
Miss but the idea of rides like still excites. ME

(21:44):
i just WISH i could handle.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Them, YEAH i just don't want to freak out right of, course,
LEGIT i don't want to freak out place to be
which and this is SOMETHING i thought about many times
because WHEN I i would like to at some point
go back To Universal. Studios like the last TIME i
was there was twenty fourteen with my family and we
went To Harry Potter world for that one day and

(22:07):
we went on The hogwarts, ride which was the best
Ride i've ever been on in my. Life why just.
Fantastic it just brought all the movies to. Life it
was like half THREE d like on a, screen half
like real, props and like you were strapped into this
thing where it could turn you all these different. Ways

(22:29):
so you just kept going back and, forth and like
different scenes would come up and you would feel like
the dragon fire on your face or like you, know
like the, cobwebs like all of that. Stuff. Fantastic but
it was one of those rides where you did have
to pull down the thing to go over your, chest you,
know because you were like leaned over front ways and
backways and all that, Stuff AND i, thought, like what

(22:52):
WOULD i do IF i was back At. UNIVERSAL i
Think i'd have to go on, it BUT i would
just pray To god THAT i did not hear that
thing strap in and THINK i gotta get out of.
HERE i gotta get out of, here shut the ride,
down RIGHT? I, Yeah so, ANYWAY i just that's. That.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah so what about water? Parks?

Speaker 1 (23:17):
YEAH i liked those two, Still i'm still fine with
them because you're not strapped into. Anything so like what? Steps, no, absolutely,
absolutely but JUST i, mean like especially like something like family,
tubes where like the tubes are really heavy and you
go lick up the. WALL i freaking love that. Shit but,
again you're not. Confined.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Right do you remember the time you AND i were
driving AND i don't know if it was for, WORK i,
sure do you know What i'm gonna?

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Say, yeah ABSOLUTELY i.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Do and they were building this new like water park,
resort not totally close to us but sort, of and
you like an hour, ish, yeah and you commented on
it and this was like early on in the building
AND i, said, oh, no those are the garbage.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
You recycling plant or. Something those are.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
The tubes that they send everything. Through, meanwhile then it's
like a freaking huge ass water park in, yes a
couple of.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Months well that was very similar to when we were
looking for a specific casino and you thought that a
carpet factory was the. CASINO i don't remember that it
was not in, Fact oh my. God Any, way so,
yeah she, Worked she was planning to go to Six.
Flags LIKE i, said she worked at Ahua. Wa so

(24:33):
she did have a few though personal. Struggles so earlier
in twenty, fifteen she came out as a lesbian to her,
family and her parents insist that they were, supportive BUT i,
guess like through maybe a few interviews of, classmates it
later was suggested That tiffany might have been having a

(24:53):
harder time with it. Internally then she was letting on
so you know regard you, know, OBVIOUSLY i MEAN i
don't know how supportive or not supportive her parents, were
BUT i mean she was just dealing with things surrounding, that,
right even.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
If they were truly, SUPPORTIVE i, mean she could have
had other.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah of. Course, Yeah so there were also like normal
family Tensions tiffany and her. Mom they briefly had to
go to counseling the year before to work through some
like parent teen issues stuff like, that but very importantly
to make SURE i state she had no known history
of mental illness or depression according to her, Family so in,

(25:36):
fact she was the friend who cheered on others and
was described as upbeat and. OPTIMISTIC a notable, QUIRK i
guess you could, say or phobia, maybe was That tiffany
was actually, well she had, nicktophobia which which is being
afraid of the. Dark, Ah so she wasn't going to

(25:58):
be somebody who was just like wondering alone at night
outside in the pitch. Black, yeah which is a good
detail to keep in. Mind so, now By july twenty,
Fifteen tiffany seemed to be on a great. TRAJECTORY i,
mean she was recently graduated at, college a college.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Athlete that makes me want, Coliflower that's WHAT i, thought,
ROS i don't like. That oh my, GOD i love,
califlower especially.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Raw all, right we'll circle back to that. Later she
was also an aspiring criminal justice, major so she talked
about maybe like becoming detective or potentially joining The Air,
force Which i'm not sure how those two are, connected
but both Very, yeah. Admirable, yes so you. Know, anyway

(26:50):
so that's where she is in this story when we
actually when the actual story. Begins so now here we.
Are night Of july, twelve twenty, Fifteen May's, Landing New. Jersey, okay.
Okay so during the afternoon and evening of this, Day
tiffany was spending time at her cousin's graduation, party which

(27:11):
was taking place right across the street from her family's
home where she, lives right in Mains. Landing so it
was a very, normal typical get. Together you, know everybody's.
Happy people are swimming in the, pool hanging out with.
Relatives they actually played a little bit of volleyball that.
Day everything seemed. Fine so now sometime after eight point,

(27:34):
Thirty tiffany goes back to her, house, which LIKE i,
said is just across the. Street she's going to shower
and change clothes after. Swimming around this, time her, Mother
diane received a call from one Of tiffany's close friends
asking if they could come over to talk To tiffany right. Away,

(27:57):
so but this was not like a casual so she'll
call this sounded like they needed. Something so approximately nine
o'clock rolls, around this friend who had. Called accompanied by
this friend's, mother they arrive At tiffany's house AND i
guess they were there because they needed to Confront tiffany

(28:19):
about something that she had. Done they said that she
basically stole her friend's debit card without permission and used
it to go. Shopping so this led to a heated
argument in the.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Driveway tiffany was home though for, this like she participated in.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
It, yeah So tiffany at first denied, everything but the
friend's mother was upset and there was a lot of
yelling back and, forth and then just after nine o'clock
to resolve this, dispute, Basically tiffany's mom, suggested BECAUSE i
Guess tiffany's saying, LIKE i don't have the card and
they're saying sha, me and So tiffany's mom suggested they

(28:57):
all Searched tiffany's car for the alleged missing debit. Card
so during the, Search diane Caught tiffany trying to sneak
the card out of the hiding. Spot she put it
in god and slip it into her.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
POCKET i was certain this is going to be like
a huge.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Misunderstanding well you're, wrong, Right so Essentially tiffany was caught
basically red handed here by her, mother. Right she then
broke down and admitted that she had used the, card
and she tried to explain why she did, it and
so by from what her mother, remembers you, know she
was just, based like her mother was, saying, like, look

(29:35):
this was a like a kid who made a, mistake you,
know just like a lapse in. Judgment, obviously you know
it wasn't. This she didn't murder, Somebody, like, yeah, okay
she did something. Bad So diane was understandably, angry and
she Lectured tiffany about. It and by this, point the
friend and her, mom having gotten the stolen car, back they.
Left So tiffany was upset and embarrassed by everything that

(29:58):
had just.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Happened and she did it to her friend like obviously
you shouldn't do this to. Anybody but it's not like
she stole it from some kid at school or some
rando PERSON i was at the, party like to her,
friend and also like at that, age LIKE i, know
she's a, kid but also in terms of like good,
judgment not great, judgment and thinking of, consequences AND i

(30:22):
know you're still at that age not going to totally
be great at thinking into the future of what are
the long term. Consequences BUT i think she was old
enough to appreciate like this is going to get found,
Out like they're going to see.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
THAT i use the, car, right you, know, oh one would. Imagine.
Yeah so now we're at about nine. Thirty diane goes
inside briefly to Get tiffany's father so that they could
both just talk about what happened With. Tiffany but in
the few moments that the parents went, Inside tiffany just
kind of. Disappears so when they came back, outside LIKE i,

(30:56):
said around nine, Thirty tiffany was nowhere to be. Found
she had run off into the night without her.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Phone was she known to be impulsive like, This LIKE
i feel like this isn't the end of the world,
Obviously also with her age also how you would commented
that she and the mom had the you, know conflict
teenage stuff going on several years. BEFORE i assume it
was several years.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Before, yeah so it's not like that was a few Years.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah it wasn't their first. Rodeo And i'm just you,
know surprised she was just a strong reaction like.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
That, yeah, WELL i, mean whatever, happened she just, disappeared
but she was seen On they have like a trail
cam FOR i, guess LIKE i don't know if IT'S
i don't know what the reason they have, it but
like maybe it's to see like the wildlife and. Stuff
but she was seen on the trail cam walking down
the driveway in A t shirt and shorts and stuff like.

(31:51):
That SO i mean it was you, know she did walk, away,
Right so What i'm trying.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
To, say believe it wasn't like this, kidnapping.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Right that we that we, know at least at that. Point,
so realizing That tiffany was, gone her parents start searching
and they called for help from like the, relatives who
were of course across the. Street so they repeatedly tried
calling her cell, phone but she wasn't, answering and AS
i told, you in, fact Then tiffany had left her phone.
Behind at, first nobody knew this because everybody was, calling

(32:19):
AND i guess people were sort of, like, hey, LIKE
i hope you're all, Right like it'll be, fine don't
freak out too, much blah blah. Blah so but the
dad found the cell phone at the end of the
driveway stole on their.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
PROPERTY i wonder if she dropped it or if she
like purposefully disposed of.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
IT i don't.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Know and what also stinks IS i feel, like in
so many of these cases that we've, done if their
pre cell phone, days then it's, like, oh you can't
ping the, phone you can't tell their. Location in this,
case it would.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Have been, perfect oh, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, nope not with, her no.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Peru so the family organized a quick search party And
tiffany's two older sisters and one of her, uncles who
happened to be a retired state, trooper rushed over to
help check out the. Area, basically so they searched the
woods and the trails around the house on quad BIKES
i don't know what that is that a four wheeler, okay,

(33:14):
okay and drove along the local. Roads they started shouting her,
name and they were just kind of extra worried because
and you had just alluded to. This, Basically tiffany never
went anywhere in the middle of the, night and she
certainly didn't go anywhere without her phone like as most,
PEOPLE i mean teenagers, especially but most people don't just

(33:37):
leave without their.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Phone, well it was just such an extreme, reaction like
it just doesn't make sense to what, happened like why
she would.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Do, This And i'm just assuming they just got heated
and she just walked. Away but, yeah so now we're
at after ELEVEN pm and the search is getting a
little more like frantic. Now So tiffany's, father LIKE i,
said he had already found the cell phone lying at
the end of the. Driveway he said though that something
that was odd is that he swore that he had

(34:06):
walked by that very spot earlier and didn't see the,
phone but then it was just, there so which that
could be a. Coincidence who, KNOWS i, mean.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
You, know, YEAH i don't think she's hiding in the
bushes and then toss the phone over there yonder, right.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
JUST i don't. Know he just made a statement about.
It but LIKE i, said now suddenly at eleven o'clock
he's walking around again and there it. Is so he
just was like it just felt like somebody had like
quietly put it back at the house when they weren't.
Looking SO i don't. Know so this was like very
troubling to the, family and it raised this possibility That
tiffany or maybe there was somebody who ended up being with,

(34:42):
her had returned near the house briefly while everybody was out,
searching and happened to put her cell phone. There and
like how you were saying so that you can't get
it tracked or. Something, well that's a good.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
POINT i just that's it was so, spontaneous this.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Confrontation i'm only laughing because you suggested the theory two minutes,
ago and now you're debating your own.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Theory but just normally you do you, Right but like
the fight or not, fight the confrontation was. Spontaneous she
had no idea when they were going to come and confront. Her,
yes she knew when they called and, said, hey we're coming,
over so she could have potentially text, SOMEBODY i mean.
Whatever she had her phone on her the whole. Time,

(35:29):
YES i don't know, so and what teenager kind of
like travels? Alone especially it sounded like she did have
a group of friends like she. Did she was. Social, yeah,
right so it's like who at that age really is
ever kind of doing their own.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Thing so another detail to mention here is that phone
records later showed that there was a call To tiffany's
phone and it was answered around eleven forty, five Or
i'm sorry ten forty, five which was an important time
to keep in mind because it's about a half an
hour before something else.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Happened so incoming call and it was.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Answer it was answered ten forty five that. Evening so and,
obviously if the phone was sitting in the bushes or
by the driveway at the, house who picked it up
or Did tiffany pick it up around ten forty, five
and then did she toss it back into the. Yard
we don't, know but it's an odd detail that's part

(36:27):
of the. Story so, now around eleven fifteen, pm unknown
To tiffany's, family an incident was unfolding a few miles
away on the railroad tracks At Galloway, Township New. JERSEY
A New Jersey transit train traveling From philadelphia Toward Atlantic

(36:48):
city was moving along its route when the engineers spotted
something or somebody on the tracks. Ahead that somebody Was,
Tiffany and at eleven fifteen, Pm tiffany was struck by this.
Train oh my, god that was traveling eighty miles an

(37:10):
hour near mile marker forty five of these. Tracks so
the impact, was as you can imagine. Horrific and the
trains operator later reported that the crew had set like
when they saw that she was in the. Tracks they
were sounding the horns and the, bells and they Said

(37:30):
tiffany did not move off the, tracks and that there
was she.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Was she like tied to. Them, SO i, mean that's
a lot to happen in.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Like An, YEAH i think she was, standing.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh, STANDING i think.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
YEAH i MEAN i don't think she was tied down
like an old villain, movie, RIGHT i think she was
just standing. There BUT i think. So they said she
didn't move off the. Tracks there was no time to.
STOP A New Jersey transit train moving at that speed
can take over a mile to come to full, stop which.
Nuts so Obviously tiffany was killed instantly when this train hit.

(38:05):
Her but keep in, mind her family doesn't know. This
so now that happened at eleven. Fifteen now we're at,
midnight which would be Now july, Sixteenth so, Midnight tiffany's
family is still looking for their. Daughter they have no
idea she was hit by this. Train they only knew
she was. Missing so sometime after eleven thirty that, Evening tiffany's,

(38:25):
uncle who was the retired police trooper noticed that there
was a lot of police activity down by the railroad,
crossing not far away from the, area like you, know
because they were. Searching they kept circling wider and wider
because they didn't know where she, went so you, know
there were flashing, lights emergency. Responders so he decided just

(38:46):
to check it, out WHICH i mean anybody would at that.
Point so he went to. Investigate he spoke with officers
at the, scene and it was then that he had
learned that a pedestrian had been struck by the train
and he had a horrible feeling that it Was. Tiffany
the description and the circumstances made him suspect it, immediately
and a medical examiner on the scene declared the victim.
Dead AS i, said the body was severely disfigured from the,

(39:10):
impact making identification kind of difficult on, site WHICH i
can't even. IMAGINE i, mean, well that's WHAT i was.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Thinking AND i, thought did SHE i, assume in the
circumstances of how she left the, house she didn't have
identification on her from teeth and, fingerprints depending depending on
if they were even, Available and oh my, god what a.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Nightmare So When tiffany's uncle alerted police that his niece was,
missing authorities put two and two, Together so who knows
it how long it would have taken them to actually identify,
her but they kind of had like this jumping off. Suspicion,
Now so the family's fear was confirmed because an officer,
eventually not long after, this drove up to their house

(39:54):
and informed them That tiffany had been killed by a.
Train so obviously the families. Devastated they are in shock
BECAUSE i, mean keep in, mind this all happened like.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
A, whirlwind, right total.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
WHIRLWIND i mean nine o'clock to twelve, o'clock three hours
and just.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
The oddest circumstances leading up to, this AND i want to, say, like,
oh this was an, Accident like how could this not
be an? Accident but then what the conductor is? Describing
and how you know you hear a train when it's coming,
Anyway LIKE i had lived by train tracks for. Years
YOU i distinctly remember WHEN i would walk the dogs

(40:32):
and you would come with, me and like when they
would ring.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
That he hate that. Shit, yes when it's, CLOSE i
like it when it's far.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Away AND i mean it would just be so. Shrill
and ALSO i think depended on who the conductor, was
like some were more obnoxious than, others but there was
just no mistaking. It so you have that, happening and
then they're reporting that she's just looking right at, them
making no, moves like it does appear very. Intentional it sounds.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Right the only THING i was going to say, IS
i mean it was pretty, dark SO i, mean this
is what they're thinking they. Saw, yeah you, Know i'm
not saying that in a way of, like oh, well
listen to this next. Part i'm just saying this is
what they're. Saying but it was also, midnight like you,
know not in a like a grocery store parking, lot
but on train.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Tracks AND i assume they couldn't do toxicology based off
of like the condition of her, Remains like did anybody
say that she was? Drinking not that you would do,
THIS i don't. Know i'm just, thinking like was something
going on that she just wasn't.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Lucid we'll let me jump back in and see, alright all,
Right so as we just, SAID i, mean the timeline
of this was crazy Because tiffany goes from laughing with
family and swimming and stuff for at eight. Pm then
there's an argument with her friend and her mother and
the friend's mother at nine she goes. Missing at nine
thirty and eleven, fifteen she's hit by a train and killed.

(41:57):
Instantly so that is just. Insane so going back to
this talking about the train incident, Itself so this location
was along The New Jersey Transit Atlantic city rail line
that's a, long a long, title in a wooded area
Of Galloway. Township so it was about four to five

(42:19):
miles from The valente, home Which i'm thinking, though if
we are to believe that she walked there, herself she
is an eighteen year old in amazing shape from what
we're hearing with, her you, know super athletic Young LIKE
i guess it's not it's not like she was a

(42:40):
ninety year old in a, Wheelchair, like how could she
possibly end up? THERE i mean she could have.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well and Also i'm Also i'm also doing love, jeez no,
way what did you even.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Just say that she had the ability to end up?

Speaker 2 (42:54):
There so What i'm thinking is touching on what you just,
said like her, athleticism like what you would have to
do in practices is running laps, like so AGAIN i feel,
like right what you're, saying it's. Nothing and also adrenaline,
wise like if she was that amped up from that
argument and not in her right, MIND i feel like
that adrenaline can get you.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Going and, yeah so this is an area that has
pretty much no street, lights so very, dark which again
is very odd though that she would be chilling out
in here right and sometime around eleven, pm LIKE i,
said the engineer of, THIS i guess it was trained
number four six nine three and it had just Left

(43:37):
philadelphia earlier that, Night so that conductor Spotted tiffany on
or very near the tracks, ahead and according to the official,
Reports tiffany was standing by the tracks and did not
move as the train got closer and closer to. Her
the crew said that they used the horn and they
rang the bell in, warning but she remained standing right

(43:58):
where she. Was the train could not stop in, time
and it struck her at a very high, speed and
AS i, said the impact was very. Violent so the
medical examiner later noted That tiffany's body was so badly
damaged that a full autopsy would be basically impossible to.
Perform she was literally and this next Part i've heard

(44:20):
this so many times with different, things but it always fascinates.
Me she was literally knocked out of her shoes by the,
force which IS i can't even, anyway that's. Nuts that
is nuts to. Me so keep in mind about her
shoes because there's something interesting about. That. Then so the
scene was so gruesome that, initially as before they kind

(44:42):
of had this jumping off, point she was quote unquote
all but unidentifiable due to the extreme trauma of. This
so it was only after police connected the dots with
the uncle that they identified her As. Tiffany, yeah but.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
We do, know like we're Not i'm saying this Is
tiffany Because tiffany went. Missing her uncle's a state, trooper
he's a reliable.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Source, no we know it's, her, Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Like logically we know it's.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Her, sure scientifically, Yes, Okay so because also her clothes.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
And, WELL i didn't know how much That Like i'm
not asking for like a description of what her body
looked like at the end of all of, this But
i'm just, thinking depending on how bad we're, talking was anything, Recognizable.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
But i'm saying like some of like her, outfit yeah
was some of it was, salvageable like they know. Her, yeah, yeah,
So but so far this story is LIKE i, mean
it's it's tragic and it's maybe a little, mysterious but
now it kind of gets.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
There's something vary Uns i'm like on the edge of
my seat on this. One LIKE i just am very
unsettled by. IT i feel like there's this shoe that's
about to. Drop bad. Analogy but he you, know.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
But there is a creepy. Detail oh So tiffany was
found when the train hit. Her let me say she
was only wearing her. Underwear she had left home BECAUSE
i told you she was on the, Camera so she
had left home in, shorts, sneakers and A t. Shirt
but at the scene those items were not, there and

(46:24):
The New Jersey transit police ended up Recovering tiffany's shirt
from the tracks that, night but again not on. Her
but they could not find and this is WHY i
said about like how the medical examiner said like she
was pushed out of her. Shoes they could not find
the sneakers or the jean shorts that she had left

(46:44):
the house. In so this means That tiffany either removed
some of the clothing before reaching the tracks or somebody
else removed the. Clothing so the fact that she was
barefoot and partially clothed immediately struck her family and later
investigators also as very odd because obviously people are, thinking

(47:05):
why would she take her shoes and pants off in
the middle of nowhere at, night, which of, yeah of
course there's no clear answer to. This the train's engineer
and there was also a student trainee who WAS i
was gonna, say in the, cockpit that's not the right
word in the whatever that? Is what is that the
front of the, train not the? Koboose you got that.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Right my grandmother has used this term, before SO i
should know.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
IT i thought you were gonna, say used to be
a train. Conductor, well And i'm.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Also actually we talk about trains all the, time and we.
Don't BUT i Know i've heard her say. It not
the engine.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
ROOM i was gonna, Say, yeah the engine.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
The LOCO i was gonna, say but it's not.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
The locomotive, either, whatever whatever it, is the front of
the train they, Were, yeah they were on the front
of the. TRAIN i guess the engine car will call it,
whatever we'll call it. That so, yeah, yeah imagine his
first night as a. TRAINING i don't know if it
was his first, night but so the engineer and the student,
trainee they gave statements LIKE i, said about what they. Saw,

(48:07):
however these statements changed multiple times in the weeks after the,
accident which just gave me, chills chill. Worthy so, initially
one of them said That tiffany quote unquote darted out
from the woods onto the tracks at the last, second
suggesting that it was a, sudden decisive act which would

(48:31):
support potential suicide like, concept what.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
If she was being sexually assaulted in the woods and
was trying to run away from, THAT i don't.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Know but later that story changed and the same witness
said he only saw her at the very last moment
and couldn't tell where she came. From then there's another
retelling and he claimed that he actually Spotted, Tiffany LIKE i,
said this was the original THING i told. You they
said that they Spotted tiffany a quarter mile, away standing
near the, tracks and they tried to yes warn, her you,

(49:02):
know do the train whistle all that. Stuff so obviously
these inconsistencies raised some eyebrows because if they saw her
from a distance standing by the, tracks like why didn't
the crew try breaking earlier than they.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Did, well that was not a mile away, though so
even if they had, Tried BUT i still think they Would.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
But are you saying they would Have they would have
just kept going full speed.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Ahead, no But i'm SAYING i don't think anyone thinking
that her life could have been.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Spared, no but you might want to try to slow.
Down BUT i guess it's good you're not a train conductor,
then like, tellia is that somebody up? There? Yeah, probably but,
hey we're not, stopping all, right chew, choo.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Oh my.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
God, anyway so some people found it odd that they
didn't that they didn't try to, stop but not everybody
finds that. Odd SO i guess trains have a black,
box just like a. Airplane an airplane. Does so that
data recorded. Later the data that they looked into later

(50:18):
revealed something that was. Interesting it showed that the train's,
bell which was the warning signal that they were, using
was never actually rung prior to the impact contradiction ida
contradicting the operator's original statement that they rang this bell
to warn.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Her, yeah that doesn't make. Sense why would they not ring?
It and why would?

Speaker 1 (50:40):
They?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
WHY i see why they lied why they rang? IT
i see why they lied that they rang, It but
why would they not ring? It that doesn't make. Sense
maybe it wasn't, working it was. MALFUNCTIONING i don't think.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
So but Also i'm, thinking, well did they say they
rang it because they, well, like, Like, okay let's say
you AND i are driving this. Train that's not a
good that's not it would be wild and this is
not a good example after what you just disclosed. ABOUT i,

(51:12):
mean why would you bother to break it? All so
let's say me and somebody else are driving a. Train,
fine one of you would think one of the two
of us should at least be paying attention to what's
in front of. Us so if they originally, said, hey
like we saw her out, there we rang the bell.

(51:32):
You but what if they were lying about that in
the first, place they didn't see her because they weren't
paying attention to what was in front of.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
THEM i DON'T i agree with you THAT i think somebody, should,
yes absolutely be looking out the freaking. WINDOW i think
that all the time with trains, though AND i doubt
that they do BECAUSE i just feel, like it's not
like you're driving a.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Car where, YOU i do. Understand SO i.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Have never believed that they're on the ball watching.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Things, okay but maybe they should, be is what we're, Saying,
Like i'm sure that's an a. Rule and maybe they
were trying to just say, like, yeah we saw, her
we were, like, hey get out of the, Way but
that was all, fabricated right because they weren't, looking is
What i'm just saying for whatever. Reason so, Okay so
then like you, know maybe in the chaos every of

(52:17):
what was happening, here like the crew thought they had sounded.
It these two people thought they had sounded it when they,
hadn't or perhaps there was an attempt made but it didn't.
WORK i don't, know but the data from the black
box shows that they never actually blew the. Whistle so
from the, start The New jersey transit and law enforcements
Treated tiffany's death as a likely, suicide like basically, instantly you,

(52:41):
know they just, thought, well it's a distraught. Team she
ran to the tracks, Intentionally so that was their immediate
assumption that, night and basically that's how the medical examiner
officially labeled the, case literally within less than a day
of the. Incident but as we are about to see
a lot of evidence or lack, THEREOF i, guess and

(53:01):
circumstances don't quite add up neatly with that. Conclusion, Okay
so now looking into the investigation a little bit more
and the official. Ruling so the investigation Into tiffany's death
WAS i don't, know like to put it, bluntly pretty
damn brief and superficial given the strange circumstances that, happened.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Like they so quickly were like that.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Suicide, yes, Yes so The New Jersey Transit police led
the inquiry since it was their train line that this happened.
On fascinating, which, yeah that is. FASCINATING i didn't, either
with input from The Atlantic County prosecutor's office and The
Southern Regional Medical. Examiner so the very next day After tiffany,

(53:53):
died authorities announced that it was a suicide and basically
just closed the case next. Day so here are some
key things that happened OR i guess we could say
didn't happen in the. Investigation so the first thing was
a LIKE i just, said rushed. Conclusion so investigators quickly
Decided tiffany had taken her own life by jumping in

(54:16):
front of the. Train this decision was made without conducting
a full autopsy or many standard forensic. Tests in, fact
no autopsy in the traditional sense was done On tiffany's.
Remains there was no rape kit. Taken, now this girl
was in her underwear. Ps just so we all. KNOW

(54:37):
i mean we do all know BECAUSE i said.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
It but WHEN i brought up sexual, ASSAULT i was
assuming they wouldn't have been able to tell that based
off how much of her was left after the. Incident,
YEAH i didn't think a rape kit would have been.
Possible but if it was, possible you think right that
they would have done. Well they, didn't claiming she's running

(55:00):
of the woods in one of the, accounts.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
NO dna analysis of her clothing or, belongings and no
thorough psychological evaluation to probe her state of mind like
from her friends and family before before ruling it a
suicide or. Not so, essentially they ruled it a suicide
just based on the scenario, alone within literal hours of it,

(55:26):
happening and doing no deep forensic evidence at.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
All that incoming phone call that she, got, yeah when
the phone should have been in the. Driveway we don't
know the phone, number or. WHO i don't think so
seems odd for what year that, was.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Twenty, Fifteen, yeah unless it was an unknown. Caller. True
another kind of shocking thing is that investigators never really
formally Interviewed tiffany's parents or her close friends in the
immediate aftermath of this. Happening So tiffany's, Mother diane later,
said quote, unquote they never asked me about my, daughter not.

(56:03):
Once they never asked what kind of child she, was
if we had, problems, Nothing so if they, had they
would have heard That tiffany had no known, depression she
was afraid of the, dark and these details were probably
they were contradictory to like the idea of that she
was going to commit suicide in this, manner if at.

(56:25):
All so it just seems that local police assumed that
the circumstances spoke for, themselves and they didn't dig any
deeper by talking to anybody who Knew tiffany. Best in
terms of the evidence found at the, scene at the train,
scene police did recover some. Items they Found TIFFANY'S t
shirt on some, tracks as. Mentioned they also interestingly found

(56:50):
an axe or a hatchet near the, site and it
had red markings on it like blood markings or paint
marks possibly but not.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Sure nobody tested.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
It, no that's not. True how dare you come to that?
Conclusion they lost it before they could test.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
IT i.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
See, So, yeah the axe was collected as evidence but
went missing real quick, after so no tests were.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Done very negligent on so many.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Levels, Yeah, so as NOTED i, said they did not
find her, shoes, shorts OR i guess she had a
headband on that, night so those things were not. There
so now a few days, later after this obviously horrific incident,
Happens tiffany's mom made a heartbreaking discovery on her. Own

(57:42):
so she started like walking around a, lot obviously just,
whatever clearing her, mind keeping her body. MOVING i don't,
know but.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
In this area or just in, general was walking.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Just around the like around the neighborhood, area like probably
that area, too BUT i don't think she was purely walking.
There but while walking along one of the roads about
a mile or so from their, home which would have
been a few miles from where the crash, Happened diane
saw something under a, tree and this turned out to
Be tiffany's missing, shoes placed side by side along with her.

(58:19):
Headband next to them was a mysterious key, chain the
kind that you would get with a rental, car and
it did not belong to anybody in the. Family there
was also a men's sweatshirt That diane did not. Recognize
it looked almost like somebody had gathered Up tiffany's belongings
and then left them there in a little, pile as

(58:42):
if to hide them or perhaps to return for them.
LATER i just got the, chills. Chillworthy diane immediately called
her husband and the police to report this. Find this
felt like a critical, lead because the hell were these
items off to the side of the, road far from

(59:03):
Where tiffany was, hit just all neat and, tidy.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Especially the hoodie and that. Key it's not like it
was just her, stuff WHICH i think still should have
been tested FOR, dna but there were other somebody else's
or other people's items along with.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Hers this spot was about three miles from the train,
site but it would have been roughly along the possible
route that she could have. Taken so Perhaps tiffany removed
her shoes and headband at that location for some, reason
or something else happened involving another, person maybe who belonged

(59:40):
to those other pieces of, well a piece of clothing
and a. Key but so, unfortunately, though the follow up
on these items was fumbled pretty. Badly from WHAT i,
saw the key chain that might have been a clue
to an unknown person police happened to. Misplay the four

(01:00:02):
was ever tested for prints OR.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Dna they're full of foolishness over, there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Fools they're not on the, ball and they don't seem to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Mind AS i told you the acts with the red.
Marks they lost that. One it's somehow vanished from, evidence
WHICH i just DON'T i don't understand how that's even.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Possible when that much stuff is going. Missing it makes
me think it's intentional and then makes me think that
it's either somebody in the department who is being covered
for or someone in the department is connected to whoever did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Something but you JUST i just feel like you're, okay
you're out, there you're gathering this. Evidence somebody puts it
in a, bag right because you have, TO i mean
an evidence. Bag, Correct that evidence bag has a number on.
It are you telling me that there's not a log that, says,
Hey joe just left with this axe twenty minutes later

(01:01:04):
he gets to the, police the police, department and, hey
the axe is. GONE i, mean it can't be that
hard to keep track of these.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Items that's WHY i think it's, intentional because there is
a chain of, custody absolutely, Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
But that would mean everybody's in on. It, then do
you know What i'm? Saying LIKE i. Do it disappears
Under joe's, watch and, nobody not even the, secretary says
something's not right. Here they're thick as. Thief, WELL i
don't know, anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
SOMETHING i, mean it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Bizarre tis also the shirt that they, Found tiffany's shirt
that was like folded, up so they they collected. That
they put that into an evidence, bag.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
And this was in the pile of these Blog, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Or actually was her shirt Now i'm trying to, remember
was her shirt at the, tracks but just not on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
HER i thought it was that she took it off or.
It who knows what exactly, Happened BUT i didn't think.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
That, no wait a, SECOND i just want to see.
Here uh so the mom found her, shoes her. Head,
okay so, no the shirt must have been found that
night at the train, tracks just a little bit further, Off, Yes,
okay so not folded up with these other. Items but,
regardless it's not going to matter because they put it

(01:02:24):
in their. Bag but they did not do that properly
because it was still wet when they put it in
the bag and sealed, it so it molded and just
destroyed any POTENTIAL dna that they were going to recover from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
It is this a police? Department do you? Know that
doesn't see? Much so this was THEIR.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I don't have any. Idea, well their train police, APPARENTLY
i don't know how many you, know missing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
People, well they weren't even classifying well obviously certainly nothing like.
INITIALLY i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Know it's not exactly The Polar express going on. Here
that's a cozy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
REASON i was just gonna, say, THOUGH i will say
there were parts of the movie when they made it
into a, movie you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
KNOW i.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Do, yeah THEN i did find a little, spooky AND
i don't mean spooky Like i'm going to have a nightmare. Tonight,
yeah for that to, happen chill drag about a? Nightmare

(01:03:39):
was it the tornado or?

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
NO i know QUARTERS i mean the absurdity of it
that was on a break, Everyone but.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah any, way what WAS i just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Something about The Polar express being.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Spooky oh, yes, yes thank. You that is a. Child
if it had come out THEN i THINK i would
have been a little. Frightened it SEEMS.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I don't. KNOW i, mean it's certainly not one of
my favorite, movies but it definitely has a very cozy
vibe to, Me and because trains in general have a
cozy vibe to. Me, YEAH i love the idea of
everybody is all together moving as, one but it's like
there's different areas just the same, thing like a. Cruise

(01:04:29):
cruise to me doesn't sound cozy because it's like big and, grand,
okay but a train sounds super. Cozy AND i remember
from the, book and they also did the scene in
the movie of like the train moving through the forest
and the wolves like looking at it as it's. Passing,
shit that looked.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
COZY i will say it was a well done movie
based off of a book like they did it to
you will say THAT i, WILL i, DID i, Shall, okay,
SHIT i wanted to see how that would. Sound Well, shad,
well it's not a, word, NO I i.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Understand but isn't That New England chad Or New england Shild.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
God we literally just talked about. This how crazy is?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
That is it shad or? Shit? Shit the EPISODE i
WAS i should have known that THAT.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I was just talking about earlier tonight THAT i was
listening two of. Us that was from months.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Ago it was the second episode we ever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Did no no no no yes correct.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
No no no no no yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Correct this ship episode was our second, episode.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
The lady in The. Dunes but, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
But us talking about the ship recircling back.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
To oh was in this episode THAT i was just listening.
To how crazy that shit never? Stops man? Anyway SO
i don't. KNOW i don't know about these. Police but
to answer your, QUESTION i don't know how much action
they do or don't. See let's hope they don't see a.
Lot so obviously these are serious mishandlings of. Evidence and

(01:06:05):
basically these key pieces of physical evidence are just now
ruined and you're never gonna know. Anything that's. That so
now the toxicology report On, tiffany they did do one
of those and it comes back, clean no drugs or
alcohol in her. System so the medical examiner did examine

(01:06:27):
what he could have the remains and combined with the,
scene he did rule the manner of death as suicide
by train. Impact. Huh, now it's worth noting again that
due to the condition of her, body it would have
been really hard to detect any other, injuries for, example
like defensive wounds not a friend, Right, well we don't,

(01:06:50):
know and you, know so he wasn't able to find
any of that. Out so the medical examiner essentially relied
on once again just like the scenario of what happened
and the input from these police to make his.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Ruling that was literally neglectful on the. REPORT i mean
what information we lost. Everything that's what they contributed and what.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
The trained people, saw.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Which also there were about three various. Accounts you got that, right,
PEOPLE i, mean what a, shame what a, sham sham
and a, shame.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
A shameful. Sham.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Oh AND i am not laughing at these. CIRCUMSTANCES i
want to be clear on. That i'm laughing at these.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Dumbasses so the official stance of these, police they stand
by their conclusion That tiffany walked to the tracks and
took her own. Life they pointed out that a transit
cop had told a local paper That tiffany quote unquote
walked onto the tracks she ignored the train engine's, horn

(01:08:05):
which we discovered then from the black box never went.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Off, yeah so something that didn't exist right before being.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Struck good quote from the official point of. View it
was cut and, dry although very tragic that this was
a case of teen. Suicide so given this, investigation OR
i guess we could say lack, Thereof tiffany's family was
left with huge unresolved. Questions the police had effectively closed
the case within, days but The valentes felt like they

(01:08:34):
just like that things just didn't add, up so they
started pushing for a deeper. Look almost.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
IMMEDIATELY i will still, say, yeah even, if, okay they
lied about the, horns they never went, off your, suspicion
or maybe not your, suspicion but your theory that they
weren't paying attention and didn't see.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Her AS i said, earlier though living by a train
track for, years an active train, TRACK i remember vividly
in the dark because it was like in the woods
where this would start. Out the light would catch my,
attention that light on the front of the, train AND
i could hear like a slight hum and think like
what is? That and then you, know over TIME i deduced, Like,

(01:09:18):
okay this is the train's, coming.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Like you're sharp cooking, well because it would also sit
something past you for.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
A, while humming and drumming and just sitting there in
the woods and not so all of this to. Say
and that was when it wasn't going eighty miles per
hour like sometimes it. Would but, WELL i don't know
how the hell fast it was, going but obviously sometimes
faster than. OTHERS i always knew what was, coming AND
i wasn't on the tracks with. It so all of

(01:09:51):
these things that already don't add, up and whether they're,
true well they're not true with this sworn LIKE i,
said and who knows if the men were paying. Attention
she knew what is there, though like she still at
the end of the, DAY i would bet my life
on heard, it saw it had ample time to get
off those.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
TRACKS i believe, You and didn't you, Know, yeah, yes,
Yeah i'm pretty. Sure that's What i've been saying this whole,
time what the entire case. Is but very well. Put
that was not, nice that summary or my. Comment do

(01:10:30):
you have anything?

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Else BEFORE I i'd loved you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Forbid.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
And you didn't say what She it's odd she heard
all this and saw it and still didn't get off the.
Tracks that was a new.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
THOUGHT i, meant more, so, well that's because if you're
going with the suicide, theory then of course she saw
all of. That so in my, head in my HEAD
i WAS i was NEVER i guess What i'm? Saying
is this? Right you tell me If i'm. Wrong but
what you when you just recited all of that? Again

(01:11:14):
my thing was that it sounded as if you thought
somebody had, said, hey you, know maybe she was just
out for a walk and just didn't realize the train
was barreling towards her about ten feet away at night
with a huge light on. It and All i'm trying
to say is that wasn't a theory of mine that

(01:11:35):
she didn't hear, it or see, it or feel the
humming and drummond or whatever you were talking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
About thank you for explaining, that which leads to, Me you're.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Welcome it's my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
QUESTION i didn't think that anyone is out there, thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Now go, on, please she didn't see it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Or Hearing but WHAT i would like to know, is
if you are not of the, suicide what do you
think happened to? Her what do you think the circumstances
are what.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
ARE i think then? That THEN i think the trained
people are lying and she wasn't just standing? There but
what do you? Think? THEN i feel like she. Was
maybe she was dead on the tracks and they ran over.
Her maybe somebody put her. THERE i don't, Know oh,
SHIT i MEAN i doubt somebody could have propped her
upright THAT i don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Scene stil like you, said don't know for sure that
she was standing, Right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Well we don't, know because these people could have been
making it. Up but, yes my only point was THAT
i thought you were just saying, like, well, HEY i
mean who you? Know these people are saying like she
could have just been wondering around out there and just
didn't happen to hear. It, well, LIKE i don't think
anybody was saying, that BUT i GUESS i don't, know
maybe that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
POSSIBILITY i appreciate this conversation because NOW.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
I, know as long as you appreciate, it some of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
The other theories. Are AND i that's WHERE i kept getting, stuck, Like,
okay if if it is not, EVERYTHING i just, said
if it's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Not, such time just everybody rewind and just listened, again,
man save us the. Time we haven't the time to
do that. Again, no the sun's down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Now i'm not, YAWNING i know, yet But.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I'm saying the sun is. Now the sun has now,
set all, Right if it's okay with, you calm, On,
dante MAY i? Continue thank?

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
YOU i think that was a nice, chat exiting.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Things a little, tense all. Right So tiffany's death is
one of those cases where the evidence tells conflicting, stories
and one of the podcasts hosts also does.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
THAT i like to think about all. OPTIONS i just
don't know what they.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Are so it's led to a lot of inconsistencies and.
Theories so let's break down the major points of contention
that have been raised by her family and like experts
and journalists over the. Years, so of, course first the
question is why would she walk from miles in the
dark because she was terrified of the. Dark so the suicide, theory,
though asks us to believe that after this argument she

(01:14:06):
had and you, know you had said in the, beginning, like,
yeah it was an, argument but it wasn't the end
of the world.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Argument But i'm sure she was, embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Right so after this argument she decided to, walk, run
you know, whatever four to five miles down a rural,
road go along train tracks at night while she's scared
of the, dark alone and barefoot because obviously her shoes
weren't with her when she got hit from what we.

(01:14:36):
Know so her family finds this incredibly hard to, believe and,
frankly a lot of other people also feel like. That
so it's, like, yeah, okay so maybe she did leave
in a, huff but why would she go so far
on foot instead of going to a friend's house? Nearby And, god,
no you go. Ahead, NO i was just gonna, SAY
i THINK i did see somewhere on a po or

(01:14:57):
listen to on a podcast that her gramm mother's house
was also very very.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Close to, this and she didn't go there because.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
They did go to look there. First so my point
is she had other options than running into the forest
in the middle of the, night and if she didn't
want to go back to that family, party there was
yet a third place that she could have gone to
just kind of be by herself that wasn't a train
track in the middle of a rural. Area SO i don't,

(01:15:26):
know what were you going to?

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Say it doesn't really matter, about like the phone and
who knows if she had. It there were obviously no outgoing,
calls just that incoming. Call BECAUSE i was going to,
say what if she quit called? Somebody what if there
had been a love interest and she called them slash
her to come get, her or even just a friend or,
whatever and like, hey kind of more like right, PLACE.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
I don't even, Know i'm not even following.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Of, like, HEY i need to get out of my.
House i'm. Walking where are? You, oh this person happens
to be like a block away and pick them. Up
they're not? Cut BECAUSE i assume we couldn't tell the
condition of her feet after the, accident BECAUSE i was gonna, say, No.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
I'm actually blown away in all of that whacked out. Shit,
yes actually that it does come up BECAUSE i was
going to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Say, like did her feet despite being a great, athlete
if her feet were, Not, like even if you're an outstanding,
athlete you typically wear shoes when you got, Sports so
her feet for walking five miles barefoot should show indicators of. That,
Yes but if she got picked up and wasn't a
vehicle to get to the train, Tracks i'm just.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Curious, yeah you sometimes amazed me with. THAT i was
very checked out for the first half of that about
a friend and a right time in a right, place
and a this and a. That but then the. Shoes,
yes her, feet the, money her. Feet what did you
say last, Time i'm still sharp. Enough, Yes so to your,

(01:17:12):
credit they did examine her, feet and her feet looked completely,
untouched like she was not walking barefoot for even say
one mile versus three miles from where her shoes were,
Found so meaning what you were trying to surmise right
there could have happened. That, yes somebody might have picked

(01:17:35):
her up because her feet were not cut, up they weren't,
bruised and she's she would have been walking through, stones, stick,
yeah gravel like that kind of. Thing so good for.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
You thank, you thank. You were you a barefoot?

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Walk i'm. Sorry, no as a, child ll no, OUTSIDE
i don't like that. Thing i'm very.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Tender footage and still to this, day like my feet.
HURTS i mean this, day it doesn't dig much for
them to, hurt but like THEY i couldn't do. IT
i just they're not. Hearty my.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
FEET i NEVER i don't even even. GRASS i don't
like the texture of walking for, ME i.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Do like, That BUT i get what you're saying though
about the feel of.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
That because you never know what you're about to step.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
IN i would never have thought, that but my mom
was stung that way with a bee by a, bee and,
yeah you're. Right. Yeah in, fact one of the dogs
was also stung like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
That in, FACT.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I had to pick this yellow jacket out of his
tobeans this. Thing he like half smushed, it but it
was still.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Alive, No, NO i don't like the sound of any of.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
That it was rough and it was.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Bad this so just to finish up this tiny section,
here like you. Said, however examinations of her feet were
done and there were no, cuts no scrapes as you
would expect to find with somebody who was supposedly trekking

(01:19:20):
all over this rough terrain with no. Shoes so it's
basically like she was not barefoot either a long time at,
all or she was never barefoot walking, anywhere and just
things were removed and she was placed or. Something so

(01:19:42):
with those missing clothes and items that were not found
at the scene but then found. Later So tiffany's, shoes,
shorts and headband had been removed, obviously because they weren't
at the train. Tracks and that's a big mystery because
If tiffany was alone and intent on, suicide why would
she take off shoes and shorts and leave them miles.
Away so some suggest that maybe she was trying to

(01:20:05):
hurt herself, earlier like people have, speculated maybe she was
trying to you, know like self, harm or she was
a little bit. Disoriented but people are saying that doesn't
really fit very well with this. Story the neatly placed
shoes and headband found later make it look like someone
else might have said them. There and then we got

(01:20:26):
the strange key chain and the unknown sweatshirt in the
spot with which means that Another Curson. Curson then Another
curson could have been With tiffany cursing up a. Storm
oh yeah, YEAH i then another person could have been

(01:20:48):
there with her or crossed past that, night one might,
say right, place right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Time absolutely here.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
Here one theory is that if he might have accepted
a ride from someone while she was like running, away you,
know that could have even been a stranger or somebody she,
knew and something bad, happened so that person might have harmed,
her tried to take her belongings later dumped. Them the
family strongly suspects foul, play especially believing that a killer

(01:21:22):
attacked tiffany elsewhere and then dumped or chased her onto
the tracks to make it look like a. Suicide, so
in their, view the missing shorts which were never, found
and all the, utter, utter all the other things that you,

(01:21:44):
SURE i don't even know WHAT i was, saying all,
right we're really going to go back. Now so in,
this in the family's, view the missing, shorts which were
never found at, all and all of these other items
are evidence of a struggle or an attempt to hide
evidence of an. Assault, then of course that mysterious axe

(01:22:04):
which got lost quote, unquote there's a lot of what
ifs around. That but and the thing is it could
have nothing to do with the case, whatsoever but we
ain't ever gonna, know, No and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Especially that injury is. CONSISTENT i would imagine with an axe,
assault a train hit would completely.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Of course mask all of. That AND i guess the
corner had made a certain wording that said that her
clothes had been, Cut but when you're hit at that,
speed even if they were, ripped it would probably look

(01:22:45):
like a pretty clean. Cut SO i don't, KNOW i feel.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
Terrible for this family and just like constant questions for
the rest of their, lives they're never going to have the.
Answers AND i just not to say that this can't.
Happen of, course like weirder shit has gone on in the,
world but the time frame being so perfect in such
a limited amount of, time limited amount of, hours like

(01:23:13):
short time, frame and for none of this to HAVE
i assume been planned, out like her if she was,
murdered it was not. PREMEDITATED i would think the circumstances
and the spontaneity of all of this just happened to
line up. Perfectly it's insane to, me like and what

(01:23:33):
could have, well all sorts of things could have gone
on if like she was picked up by a stranger
or even picked up by somebody who knew. Her what
the hell transpired that quickly that it ended up being
that they were killing? Her and then, yes the train
was perfect in terms, of you, know a tool to
help hide and, Recover but it's just what the heck

(01:23:57):
happened that quickly that she gets?

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
KILLED i don't, KNOW i mean speaking of the. Train
then of course there's the contractory train driver's, statements so like,
that you might as well take them with a grain of,
salt because absolutely they're back and. Forth then we add
in the fact, that LIKE i, said which is WHY
i made it so apparent in the, beginning that there
was no suicide warning signs because she was planning for the.

(01:24:22):
Future she you, know she had a. Scholarship she was
from all, accounts pretty, happy WHICH i know people who commit, suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
BUT i don't always stalk into, Okay AND i, think for, parent,
well keep my thoughts to.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
Myself that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
FIRST i don't want to offend. Anybody also a, first.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
All.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
RIGHT i JUST i think that age group is.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Tricky, OH i do.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
TOO i think, parents especially after a tragedy of any,
kind you, know can't fathom that they don't know their
child perfectly and don't know everything that's going on with.
Them and parents don't know everything that's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Going, on, right which we've said many, times.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Right SO i feel LIKE i just think that's something
that isn't always accurate when parents make those comments you,
know there there were no. Warnings AND i think, too
like a lot of, people parents not, parents just sometimes
see what they want to see and can't bear to

(01:25:37):
face things that are actually going you, KNOW.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
I know we've given credit to. THAT i forget what
case it, was, well the.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Mother Sister, Marshall oh my, god it was it Was marshall's.
Sister you're, correct and she acknowledged yet any thing as
negative as it paints him and whatever he was up to.
Exactly AND i am not at all and WHAT i
just said trying to be critical of, parents how they handle,

(01:26:06):
situations how anyone, grieves handles their. Emotions there is no
right or wrong. Way i'm not at all trying to,
criticize BUT i just think sometimes there's things that are
probably there that right aren't always being.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
Right the one last like VERY i, guess like, overly
WELL i don't want to say, overly but dramatic theory
is that there have been some speculations, that like what
if after the fight with the, friend the friend kind
of really got pissed off and decided to like come

(01:26:41):
back and attack her or. Something, now that is a,
very LIKE i, said dramatic theory that some people. Have
but like, again with the fact that there's a zero
physical evidence, left we're never going to know any of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
That and this was a theory like from the, public not,
Right oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Yeah named. Suspect, no that's Why i'm saying it was
a very like overly, dramatized like lifetime movie kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
Yes. Yeah so then in terms of like media coverage and,
Stuff tiffany's case might have faded into obscurity after twenty
fifteen if not for once, again the families relentless fight
to keep it in the. Spotlight so over the years
it's gained significant media attention and even a national audience

(01:27:31):
through a popular documentary. Series do you know what that? Is?
NO i think you might, Though oh very, Well, no excuse.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
ME i was just gonna make a. Guess but there's no.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
No shame in, that do. It, No i'm not, Fine i'm.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Wrong because that's it's. Fake it's not a documentary, series
not ID.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
I don't know what that. Is unsolved. Mysteries, ah they dupe.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
IT i should have known that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
They covered this case in late twenty. TWENTY i want
to know What tiffany looks. Like so if anybody is,
interested it's season, three episode, one Titled mystery At Mile
mark or forty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Five that also reminds, me, oh she is so not
WHAT i was. Imagining, oh there's a, picture the one
that you talked.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
About oh what DID i talk?

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
About that picture of her?

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Walking?

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Oh, yes, yes, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Oh it just there's nothing like scary about. It but
it just has Such oh it's spooking and. Eerie it really.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
Does she was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Beautiful the mile marker comment you just made in the,
title it reminds. Me have you ever been pulled or
not pulled? Over have you ever been like broken down
and had to CALL i don't know or whatever else there?

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Is, yeah but not on a.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Highway, Okay WELL i have several, times okay in the,
past And i'll never forget the first, TIME i guess it,
happened and they asked what mile MARKER i was, at
and for some reason WHERE i broke. DOWN i wasn't
really near, One AND i, said you don't know WHERE i?

(01:29:24):
Am like you. CAN'T i have to get out and
walk down the highway to Find oh.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
Wait you didn't call nine one, one did?

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
You?

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
No so you just Think fred's auto up the street
has A gps on? You what the hell you said
back to, Them you don't know WHERE i.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
Am now That i'm hearing, this said back to.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
ME i realized how sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
QUITTED i also stapled my finger once.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
Intentionally, well we don't have time for. That, UNFORTUNATELY i
feel like a therapist closing out the. Session, well we
don't have time for. That but if everybody stays tuned
till next, time we'll pick up With talia putting a
staple into her. Finger stay tuned for more screwy adventures With.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Tealia this is grewy, adventures.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
All, Right oh my. God BASICALLY i gotta wrap this.
UP i. Think. So we're getting very close to the end.
Here but there was a petition that went around to
Get tiffany's case, reopened and it gathered about twelve thousand.

(01:30:50):
SIGNATURES a FORMER fbi agent spoke about it in twenty twenty,
three citing the many investigative the missteps and urging a
fresh look at the. Case so the family also offers
a forty thousand dollars reward for any information that could
shed light on what happened To. Tiffany and they literally
have a poster With tiffany's photo advertising the reward and

(01:31:12):
asking see, something say.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
Something this is still a present day being.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
SAD i think so, yeah so LIKE i, said there's
been social media presence and all of that. Stuff the
family also maintains a memorial by the train tracks where she,
died so there's a, cross, flowers, photos and a bench
where people can Remember. Tiffany for, them this isn't just morbid.
Curiosity it is a quiet truth and justice for their.

(01:31:37):
Daughter and the mother is quoted in, saying we've never
really grieved our. Daughter how could. We we've just been
fighting and.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Fighting they've never grieved her, WELL i mean, torturous.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Yes and their hope is that somebody someday will come
forward with a missing piece of, information or that authorities
will finally acknowledge the doubts and actually take a second.
Look but as of, now which is ten years, later
because we are twenty, Five i'm, sorry we are twenty twenty,
five the case remains officially a, suicide regardless of what

(01:32:14):
many other people. Believe so until somebody comes forth with any,
information the death Of tiffany is just going to continue
to be a rather unsettling puzzle That i'm sure people
will continue to speculate about for a long.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
Time oh, yeah what a horrific.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Case that poor, Family oh that poor. Girl rest in, Peace, tiffany.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
That is the case Of Tiffany. Valente good, job thank.
You all, right, WELL i don't even want to ask
you to input anything else right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
Now BUT i.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
Shall but what will that?

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Be next collab is next? Week?

Speaker 1 (01:33:05):
Oh next collab is next? Week, yes, YES i thought
you were going to, say you, KNOW i did some
of the paper clip too.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
ONCE i used to put them on my fingers like a.
Headline who the hell Didn't AND i did that with black.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
Olives NO i. DIDN'T i did not do.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
THAT i had a lot of blackout alims as a.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Child, Yes talia is. Correct next, week, everyone we will
be collaborating with a guest podcast Called chambers of The,
occult And i'm sure it will be a very fun.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
Time well, Yeah i'm so.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Excited so all. Right, well on that, note, everybody as,
always stay safe and stayed.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Chill bye Every.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Fiday good bye everyone you've just listened To. Chilworthy thank
you for joining us on this latest. Episode while we
strive to keep our discussions engaging and, lighthearted we also
wanted to take a moment to acknowledge the real lives
and events that are at the heart of these.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
Stories we try to approach each topic with a sense
of curiosity and respect fully aware of the impact these
events have had on the individuals and their loved. Ones
our goal is to honor their memories by keeping their
stories alive and shedding light on the mysteries that surround.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Them if you enjoyed this, episode please remember to, subscribe,
rate and leave a, review and don't forget to join
us on the next episode Of. Chilworthy

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