CineBerlin - Film as an artistic endeavor, an interview with Charlotte Jacoby - CineBerlin - Filmmaking Madness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Klaus Salminen: Welcome to CineBerlin, Filmmaking Madness. My name is Klaus Salminen. (00:37):
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Klaus Salminen: And I'm Alistair Buh. And today we have the honor to have Charlotte Jacobi with us. (00:41):
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Klaus Salminen: She's from Hamburg and she is a video and animation artist based in Berlin. (00:46):
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Klaus Salminen: She collects and produces various materials such as archival material, (00:50):
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Klaus Salminen: text, photos, super 8 films, documentary video and audio material and animation sequences. (00:55):
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Klaus Salminen: The narrations of her work only emerge during the editing process in which she (01:02):
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Klaus Salminen: assembles the different fragments. (01:06):
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Klaus Salminen: Thematically, she exposes topics such as memories, transgenerational transmission (01:08):
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Klaus Salminen: of trauma and memory, identity and family history. (01:13):
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Klaus Salminen: Since 2019, the protagonist of her films has been her alter ego, the spider. (01:17):
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Alex DePew: Welcome. (01:22):
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Klaus Salminen: Welcome. (01:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Thanks for having me. (01:24):
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Klaus Salminen: So we have to talk about the spider. (01:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: How did the spider come into my life? I was actually born in a cellar in my (01:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: art school where I studied or am still studying, actually. (01:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I wanted to create a stickman and make a stickman walk because I thought (01:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: maybe if I'm becoming good at animating, I maybe can make some money with it. (01:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then I was starting to do like an After Effects thing, drawing this little (01:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: stickman. And for some reason, I thought like two legs are super boring to move around. (01:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And so I drew more legs. And so it became eight and then it became a spider. (02:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then I connected it with some old footage that I had already been recording, (02:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like some old video performances that I did. (02:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I thought it was really working so well. (02:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And the spider was born. And I thought this is so much fun. I had so much fun (02:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just to let the spider running around in After Effects and just doing things like small collages. (02:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And yeah, it was really not like a very intellectual decision to do something. (02:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was just an accident, a happy accident, let's say. Yeah. (02:35):
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Klaus Salminen: We have to see ourselves as we are. (02:41):
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Klaus Salminen: I saw that sentence on your Instagram page. (02:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: What's the background on that one you actually took notes that's so nice, (02:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: he's doing the research that was (02:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: uh that was part of my film actually and it was said by louise bourgeois who (03:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i included into my film she was kind of a protagonist in there and it was a (03:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it was taken out of a documentary about her. (03:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was a sentence that she said and somehow made sense. (03:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It didn't come from me. I just put it in there. (03:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I just thought it fits. That's all. (03:27):
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Klaus Salminen: What do you think about Alex when you hear that sentence? (03:30):
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Alex DePew: It seems like a tattoo. (03:33):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah? (03:35):
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Alex DePew: Like it could be a good tattoo. (03:35):
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Klaus Salminen: To me, it's more about this idea that you have to face who you are, (03:38):
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Klaus Salminen: you know, with words and all. (03:43):
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Klaus Salminen: Not only the good parts, but also the bad parts. (03:46):
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Alex DePew: Yeah, I can see that. (03:49):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah. One thing that I really kind of, and which could be interesting to talk (03:50):
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Klaus Salminen: about a little bit is, you seem to have kind of a depth when it comes to the (03:55):
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Klaus Salminen: way you present your work. (04:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Meaning that there is some darkness some solemnity seriousness but also a lot (04:03):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of humor is that something you want try to incorporate in your work, (04:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't try I feel I have to do it in order to make the films because I feel (04:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean I've been studying art and before art therapy now for 13 years, (04:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: kind of a long term student student and obviously (04:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: psychology is something that i'm very interested in not (04:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: only because i'm a psycho myself but i (04:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's just something that is um yeah (04:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: with me has been with me for a long time and is also the motor for my work or (04:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for doing art and i'm not a conceptual person i can't And like create an art (04:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: piece in my head and then do it. (05:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's just happening along the way. (05:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And what was the question again? The humor and the depth. (05:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I'm always thinking about, like, I want to, my motivation is myself and my own (05:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: experiences with myself. (05:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But then I have to kind of canalize it into a film, which is already a translation into a medium. (05:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I also want to show it to people. So there are parts of it that are a little (05:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: bit like a self-therapy, but it can't be only that. (05:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It has to go further than that. And I'm always asking myself the question, (05:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I want to tell intimate things, but it should not be about me. (05:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Obviously, I am the motivation. (05:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: My story is my motivation, but it should not be about me. It should touch some (05:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like general aspects of life. (05:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And to get there, I have to find a way to kind of distance it from myself. (05:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I think humor is a very good way to do it. (06:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I don't want to see, you know, I don't want people to see the film and think, (06:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: oh, hey, Charlotte has some serious issues. (06:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: She has to go to therapy, you know. (06:13):
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Alex DePew: Everyone can use therapy. (06:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It is but you know you when you see work sometimes i see artwork and i just (06:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: think about the person that does the artwork and i kind of have this like cringe (06:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: moment where i'm like okay go to therapy and tell to your therapist and i don't (06:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: want that and i think humor is a very good way to kind of, (06:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: bring in this like meta layer so that you are i'm already distancing myself (06:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: from it and yeah Yeah. Does that make sense? (06:44):
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Klaus Salminen: Absolutely. Yeah. So would you say that this movie represents your artistry (06:48):
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Klaus Salminen: the way you want it to be seen by others? (06:52):
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Klaus Salminen: Or do you have any other pieces of work that complements the movie that you made? (06:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think it always can only be like one piece can only be like a moment, (07:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like a moment of Nama in German. (07:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know how to say it in English right now. (07:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, just like a screenshot, you know. Like a snapshot. (07:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was a snapshot of what I wanted the work to be at the time that I did it. (07:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And now it's there and it's being on its own. Like I'm kind of have to let it go. (07:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And let's see for the next work, like how this is going to look like. (07:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I suppose it will look very different. (07:38):
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Klaus Salminen: So maybe we should describe the movie a little bit for those who are listening. (07:41):
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Klaus Salminen: How would you describe the movie, the style of the movie? (07:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think it's very eclectic. I mean, I started creating an archive or a collection (07:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of documents about my father's family. (07:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I looked for documents in archives. (08:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I went to see my family in Finland and I also found some family in Russia. (08:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I visited them. I made interviews with them. (08:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I also took some like Super 8 shots with my Super 8 camera. So I tried to document this whole process. (08:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And this was all happening like in a time frame of like five years. (08:26):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I for my (08:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: diploma I really needed to finish something (08:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like some I had to (08:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: make something out of it and then the spider came up (08:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: at the same time and I thought okay maybe the spider is going to be the narrator (08:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of the story so I started to create like those animation sequences about the (08:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: spider who has anxiety issues and it's a very cute spider maybe we should add (08:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that it's It's not like a poster for the podcast. (09:01):
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Klaus Salminen: Exactly, yeah. I mean, it's just an ellipse with four legs, you know, (09:05):
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Klaus Salminen: and it's just moving, very simple. (09:11):
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Alex DePew: And you voiced it, correct? (09:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, I voiced everything. And so the movie itself, it combines all those moving (09:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: image materials and my own voiceovers. (09:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And so it's very it's like a (09:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: collage yeah that's it and (09:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and everything really comes together in the editing process (09:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: so it's a montage work and but (09:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the work itself has been done over five years (09:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or yeah approximately yeah how (09:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: long did the editing process take it by itself i think (09:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like like nine months something because (09:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i i don't i mean (09:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i sometimes do a storyboard um when (09:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i work but this is just to get an idea of how maybe things would look like i (10:03):
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Charlotte Jacoby: do this for my animation sequences but then i just really sit at home and play (10:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and start doing something then oh this would be so cool and i make a tutorial (10:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: about some after effects thing and And I incorporate that. (10:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And so it's very like vibrant. Like (10:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I sit there and then I want to record something because I get an idea. (10:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: So it's not like I have a concept and then I try to bring that to life. (10:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's more, it's like, okay, now I start and maybe I come out somewhere else. (10:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: So this takes a lot of time because it's not like I have a plan and then I just (10:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: try to fulfill the plan. I can't do that. (10:42):
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Alex DePew: And you also teach animation, right? (10:46):
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Klaus Salminen: I mean, teaching would be a little bit too much, but yeah, I give some workshops (10:48):
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Klaus Salminen: in animation and at my art school. (10:54):
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Klaus Salminen: Or a study. (11:00):
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Alex DePew: Cool. (11:00):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah, it's cool. (11:01):
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Alex DePew: What's the art school? (11:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's Kunsthochschule Weißensee. It's the East Berlin Art School. (11:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: The poor one. With the nice people. (11:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's a cool school. It's not about, and this is maybe about my background, it's not a film school. (11:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I mean, I studied in sculpture department, fine arts, but I never did any, (11:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah, Yeah, maybe I did some clay things, but yeah, very basic. (11:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: So we don't have a video class or film. (11:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, we have a film seminar, but we don't have a class specifically that (11:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: is like dealing with films. (11:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: We don't have like a professor who is teaching video, which was really good (11:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for me because I'm not working well when I feel that there are expectations of me. (11:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I think me at film school would be a total disaster because I would hate (11:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: everything and everybody and I would just not do it, do anything. (12:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And with video in Weissensee I had the feeling like there was nobody telling me how to do it. (12:06):
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Klaus Salminen: So you could just have fun. (12:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I could just have fun and nobody was judging it and it was just like my own (12:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: little wild space and it still is and it's really cool. (12:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't want there to be a video professor i (12:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: have one teacher who's not a professor he's a he's a teacher and um he was kind (12:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of my mentor and that was really cool to have but it was not like this you know (12:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: authority being super like video art and now you have to go there and you know, (12:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, I don't like that. And actually, what helped me a lot was I went to Erasmus (12:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in Helsinki and there I learned how to edit the software skills. I got there. (12:53):
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Klaus Salminen: I mean, this is a theme we sometimes talk about. Should you or should you not (13:04):
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Klaus Salminen: go to film school, right? (13:09):
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Alex DePew: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my working theory is that there are some people who need to be pushed. (13:11):
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Alex DePew: And there are some people who can kind of figure it out and do it on your own. (13:19):
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Alex DePew: And I think different people need different things. And there's also the networking aspect. (13:23):
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Alex DePew: So I don't think it's a clear cut, but I think I'm not of the film school people. (13:26):
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Alex DePew: So I just kind of learned it on my own, figured it out as I went. And that fit me well. (13:32):
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Klaus Salminen: I mean I went to film school but I just remember that I was forced to go in (13:38):
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Klaus Salminen: a specific direction so if I didn't go in that direction I got criticized, (13:45):
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Klaus Salminen: like oh you shouldn't do that or this is not how you should do it (13:50):
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Klaus Salminen: and I remember way back when I did this there was also a big discussion about (13:53):
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Klaus Salminen: film or digital and I didn't care but like oh the film is the good one the video (13:57):
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Klaus Salminen: is the crappy one and blah blah (14:03):
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Klaus Salminen: blah so So I remember that didn't really give me a lot of inspiration. (14:05):
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Alex DePew: Again, this is a while ago and the video was pretty crappy. (14:11):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah, we're talking about 2008. (14:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, that's true. (14:16):
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Klaus Salminen: But still, I don't know what's the definition of crappy, right? (14:17):
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Klaus Salminen: Everything is an expression. (14:21):
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Klaus Salminen: But what I do remember from film school is that it actually awoke my passion. (14:23):
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Klaus Salminen: So that's what I bring with me. And this idea that, wow, I can actually do something. (14:28):
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Klaus Salminen: Whether somebody likes it or not, it's a different story. but I can do shit. (14:33):
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Klaus Salminen: And then also the people I met. So I think that's what I usually say, (14:37):
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Klaus Salminen: that film school can be good to meet people and have a network, (14:40):
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Klaus Salminen: but don't think you're going to be a great filmmaker just because you go to film school. (14:44):
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Alex DePew: Also now I think I see so many people looking for like mini DV cameras to shoot (14:50):
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Alex DePew: like skateboarder movies and things like this. (14:56):
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Alex DePew: Like a lot of people looking to like downgrade their video quality. (14:59):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah. (15:03):
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Alex DePew: Like make it more rough. (15:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Wow. Okay. Is it true? (15:06):
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Klaus Salminen: But you chose Super 8 for example. How come? (15:08):
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Alex DePew: Because it looks cool. (15:11):
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Klaus Salminen: It's cool. (15:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: No, no. It's not about coolness. It was not. It was when I was in Finland visiting (15:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: my family, and I wanted to find out the story of my grandfather and great-grandfather. (15:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And my uncle gave me this double-edged camera that belonged to my grandfather, (15:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and I really wanted to use it. (15:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then I brought it somewhere in Finland to be repaired, and this guy couldn't work it out. (15:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And yeah i was a little bit sad but then i just got a super 8 camera and i thought (15:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: okay now i do some analog stuff because i i really want that and i also found those, (15:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: um super 8 no no it was (15:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: not super 8 it was like um normal 8 films um (15:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: from my family so yeah and (16:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: there were like films um where my (16:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: father was on it when he was young and but (16:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: they are very precious to me so yeah cool (16:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah so i kind of wanted to work with this yeah what (16:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: kind of benefit do you think you have coming from an (16:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: art perspective into the movie world as opposed to somebody who went through (16:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: film school or other other means i really can't talk about a general thing i (16:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: can only say how for me it is good because i think every person is different (16:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and their goals are different. (16:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: As we were saying before, I just feel, for me, I don't feel I have those boundaries. (16:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: When I talk to people from film school, they are very caught up sometimes in technical stuff. (16:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And the way they are maybe working a scene, you know, like camera perspective (16:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and, you know, different shots. (17:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then it can maybe become (17:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: very technical and i didn't do (17:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: video because i i knew how (17:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i wanted to know how film worked i was (17:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just i wanted to do things with (17:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a camera without knowing anything so that maybe (17:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: brought me to very meant more (17:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and i i really didn't (17:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: care about video quality or you know this (17:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: kind of thing and more it was (17:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: more about the process that i wanted to to make and and i didn't yeah i didn't (17:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: have those structures in my head really existing and i think i can't when i (17:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: have a structure in my head i i'm very blocked i can't do anything so this is for And I tried. (17:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I was a guest student at Babelsberg for one semester. (18:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I wanted to make a master's or I wanted to apply for the master's in montage. (18:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was not for me because already in film school, I feel like... (18:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: In biospec it's like that i don't know if it's everywhere but i guess like all (18:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: those like camera and editing and all those professions are kind of separate (18:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and you have to decide of course you can, (18:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah i don't know take a course there or you of course maybe if you're doing (18:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: camera then you also maybe know how to edit but i am doing everything myself (18:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i'm not doing the sound mixing in the end because I'm really lazy. (18:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't want to learn it. (18:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But I feel I'm free to just... (18:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't have the pressure of being professional in any of this. (18:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I just do it because I want to make my project. (18:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know? It doesn't have to look perfect. (19:01):
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Alex DePew: I think someone asked Orson Welles initially when he was later on in his career, (19:04):
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Alex DePew: like, how did you start out? And one of his first movies was... (19:09):
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Klaus Salminen: Citizen Kane, you know? (19:13):
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Alex DePew: Yeah. So he was making a movie that was insanely complicated and had all these (19:14):
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Alex DePew: shots that were kind of breaking what was being done at the time. (19:19):
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Alex DePew: And he said, just sheer ignorance. (19:24):
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Alex DePew: I didn't know what I could and could not do. So I just asked them to do what (19:26):
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Alex DePew: I imagined. And then he made it happen. (19:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But Klaus, what did you, in which department were you studying when you studied at film school? (19:33):
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Klaus Salminen: So the idea was director. Okay. But I love, yeah, yeah, that was the idea. But I love shooting. (19:39):
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Klaus Salminen: So I really, really love getting into the camera work as well. (19:46):
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Klaus Salminen: Then I'm also acting. And that was a problem. I couldn't do all of those things. (19:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Okay. (19:54):
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Klaus Salminen: So I got some really weird comments about Klaus. Are you in another movie? (19:55):
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Klaus Salminen: Again, it's an action. This is not your focus, Klaus. And so on. (19:58):
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Klaus Salminen: I mean, I, so from, you still work in institutions, correct? (20:02):
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Klaus Salminen: You still are connected to the art school. (20:06):
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Klaus Salminen: So how do you feel about institutions as such? Because I feel sometimes institutions (20:10):
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Klaus Salminen: can be a little bit frottling and can restrict you. (20:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean... (20:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Again, I can only speak for myself and my experience with institutions. (20:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And this is the second art institution. No, it's not true. (20:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I did art therapy university. I studied in Bremen for one year at art school. (20:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then I came to Weissensee. (20:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I feel there's a lot of pressure getting in, you know? Like there is this (20:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: enigma and you're studying at art school, like, oh my God, public art school, wow. (20:50):
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Klaus Salminen: Part of a special club. (20:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yes. (20:58):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah. (20:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then you're in and it's, you know, people also only cooking with water. (21:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But still, for me, art school gave me just, it didn't necessarily teach me anything, (21:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: but it still gave me the space to take this seriously. (21:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think if I without (21:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: art school I probably would not (21:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: have taken it seriously but and (21:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think this is also part of the process I always (21:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like hate everything in the middle of the (21:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: way everybody and everything like art school and (21:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: people and I think everything is ridiculous and I just (21:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah I just don't want to belong there and I (21:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel like I'm an outsider I always be like (21:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that I still have mixed feelings about (21:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i don't still don't know what art is like i studied this (21:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for like eight years and i can't tell you (21:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: anything about it i feel but i what (21:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it gave me especially in weissensee it's it's different to helsinki for example (22:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: helsinki i feel is very structured the kuva art academy and you really you have (22:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: courses and you have to be present and blah and in weissensee it's kind of you (22:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: can also just don't show up for six years you know and. (22:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And yeah, for me, this was very good because I came to the point that I had (22:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: to create my own purpose myself and then start working. (22:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And the idea for my project that I'm looking for my great-grandfather was really, (22:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I was so desperate because I didn't know what to do at art school. (22:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like i there was this void and i didn't (22:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know what to do with myself i was like what the fuck are people (22:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like making installations like i don't get it i i (22:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: need and then i was i need like a really serious topic (22:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that i can work on so that (23:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i get create some sense for me here to be (23:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: here and do something because i was really just you (23:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know i'm in the void like (23:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i don't know what to do with myself so and yeah and (23:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: then the way you describe it sounds like vice and (23:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: say it's more like a greenhouse yeah maybe (23:20):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a little bit yeah that they give you a little bit freedom to discover and to (23:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: grow in whatever pace you have right yeah yeah it's true and i mean for some (23:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: people it works and for some people it doesn't work for me this is very good (23:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: because i feel in other schools like Like when you, (23:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know, I think in Hamburg you have, or is it Ulika? (23:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know. You have to apply for the classes. You have to go to the professor (23:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and apply to be in his or her class. (23:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And like I, when I entered art school, this was by accident. (23:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I never did a Aufnahmeprüfung. (23:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like I never did this thing. (23:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I was kind of, you know, I don't, yeah, having like this, yeah, (24:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I could never do it. Like this pressure thing is not for me. (24:05):
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Klaus Salminen: Be creative mean like push (24:09):
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Klaus Salminen: the button i don't know how the how does (24:12):
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Klaus Salminen: it work for you like how do you feel getting into your creative that's a good (24:16):
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Klaus Salminen: question i would say that creativity for me it's more of a maybe a little bit (24:22):
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Klaus Salminen: like you that i have to express something I have an idea of what I want to express. (24:29):
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Klaus Salminen: And then I get bored very easily. (24:34):
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Klaus Salminen: So I really need to try different things in order to get there. (24:38):
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Klaus Salminen: But I'm way more traditional than you are. (24:41):
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Klaus Salminen: So for me, it's more about the smaller parts, the nuances that I work with, (24:44):
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Klaus Salminen: rather than the big explosive, you know, blah, blah things. (24:49):
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Klaus Salminen: But for me, creativity is an urge rather than a thing, if that makes sense. (24:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: For me it's like mostly about collaboration like (25:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i do not do well when i'm staring at a blank piece of paper (25:03):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or looking at a computer screen and being like (25:06):
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Charlotte Jacoby: come up with something now i do much better (25:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: when i'm like talking with someone and then all of a sudden sharing ideas and (25:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the ideas grow into other things and then all of a sudden now i (25:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: have an idea now we have something a collective process more collective process (25:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for me that works much much better i've learned that about myself over over (25:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: time I still try to do it by myself but it doesn't ever really come out like (25:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in the long run very well this is why you're doing the pitch and planning yeah (25:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I just want to steal the idea oh let me jump on that with you. (25:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah now I see why this is happening maybe yeah (25:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's part of it yeah yeah I really love (25:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that yeah I mean we usually say filmmaking is a (25:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: collaborative process but for you it's not no i (25:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: really don't like that i mean i no (25:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's not true um i also worked on (25:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: projects for other people like for other people's (26:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: project i did one nice where i was shooting super eight (26:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and for like an artsy um kind of film and that was really nice um but when it (26:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: comes to my own films i really want to do everything myself and i i'm also very (26:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: shy so i i feel it's for me very difficult, (26:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: um to go out and even talk to people when it comes to my projects you know and (26:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: but you do work for others like you said you shot with the super eight but you (26:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: also do editing yeah and coloring and things like that yeah yeah stuff like (26:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that but i i realized like right now Now, (26:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: what I'm making money with is more commercial editing, and I feel... (26:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: That in like this film, film, film, commercial, this normal film industry, this is not mine. (26:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like I don't feel I belong there and I also don't want to work there. (26:59):
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Klaus Salminen: Do you have any traditional movies that you like? (27:03):
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Alex DePew: Who's your favorite director? (27:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Oh, I got that question. Okay, now we are diving deep into the filmmaker as a profession. (27:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Professional term for people, kind of discussion. this (27:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: expectations right but we use (27:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: when you say you're a filmmaker then you know everything about movies yes (27:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah it's the same with when i i bartended (27:26):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for a very long time and um when i when people ask me patty you're not only (27:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a waitress right you're also doing something else and i'm like i'm studying (27:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: art and then like are you painting are you making sculptures like Like, why can't I see you work? (27:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And who's your favorite artist? And this and that. And I was all the time like, (27:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: oh, God, like, why did I say something? (27:51):
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Alex DePew: Like, leave me alone. (27:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And it's the same with filmmaking. Like, now, like, I'm testing. (27:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Sometimes I'm testing those things, like saying I'm a filmmaker, (27:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: although I'm not feeling it most of the time. (28:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And then it's, who's your favorite director? Have you seen this or that movies? (28:03):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I'm like, no, because I'm not watching movies. Like, I don't go to the cinema at all. (28:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know anything. thing like for me um working (28:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: with video i'm i'm coming just (28:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: from a very different direction and it's not from the (28:20):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that i'm a cineast i say that (28:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in english i'm a cineast yeah i'm not at (28:26):
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Charlotte Jacoby: all so i'm i try to avoid because before (28:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: we were meeting for this podcast i was thinking about this (28:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a lot like would i like what (28:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: is expected of me when i come here to a filmmaker's (28:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: podcast like what is expected of me like oh (28:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: my god like can i fulfill those expectations like (28:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i you know i don't know anything about film (28:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and same with art like i have always (28:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: been very ignorant about what is going on because but you have made a film so (28:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: you are therefore it is a filmmaker i am no i would describe myself as a person (29:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: who does things and one of the things happens to be It includes video and animation, (29:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: but it can also be everything. (29:16):
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Alex DePew: And I have to say, since I hosted Short Film Nights, I've watched a ton of short films. (29:19):
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Alex DePew: And you do have the idea of pacing as well is very well done. (29:27):
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Alex DePew: The balance of humor and serious was also good because sometimes that's a hard (29:34):
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Alex DePew: one to kind of like pin down and tone. (29:37):
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Alex DePew: The tone of the whole film worked for itself and it had a good beginning, middle and end. (29:42):
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Alex DePew: So you did a very, very, very good job, even though you say you don't know film. (29:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, I don't have knowledge about film history or I don't know films. (29:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like when people ask me, oh, do you know this film? I usually say, (29:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: no, I don't. Or do you know this director? (29:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: No, I don't. You know? um yeah and would (30:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: you say you intentionally try not to know would (30:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that hinder you in one way or another um i'm (30:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just not interested sometimes i i (30:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel like i'm i try to pressure (30:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: myself like you know from this time on now (30:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i will every week i will watch an important movie and then (30:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i'm not doing it um homework yeah (30:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's it's this kind of thing um but i (30:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel um nonetheless i (30:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel there's a kind of um type (30:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of film that if i sometimes kick my (30:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: ass and watch this type of film like more experimental films (30:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or film films that more are (30:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like in this space between a black (30:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: box cinema and the white cube um those (30:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: are the things that inspire me and yeah (30:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i recently you do video installations as (31:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: well right i did it when i started out actually i don't do it i haven't done (31:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it i was more like diving into this i really want to just be let it be all about (31:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the film and i don't want to but i started out with this yes um yeah i recently (31:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: um visited the Oberhausen Film Festival. (31:20):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Which is the oldest, I think it is the oldest experimental short film festival (31:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in the world. Do you know it? (31:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's in Oberhausen, it's close to Düsseldorf, Duisburg, this area. (31:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I applied for being part of a seminar there where like 25 people from around (31:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: around the world, like filmmakers, curators, film critics, (31:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: were forming a group. It was led by Salah Tykka, you know, the Finnish videographer. (31:52):
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Klaus Salminen: I do, yep. And so we were watching films for five days and it was really inspiring and nice. (31:57):
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Klaus Salminen: And I really felt because it was very challenging. (32:06):
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Klaus Salminen: It was not like sitting back and just consuming. It was really like, (32:10):
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Klaus Salminen: yeah, some, yeah, really it's just different. (32:14):
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Klaus Salminen: You don't see this kind of works in a regular cinema (32:18):
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Klaus Salminen: or and yeah this is what really (32:21):
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Klaus Salminen: but also like being in a group and talking about (32:24):
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Klaus Salminen: it i feel this kind of film needs discussions and because it's not obvious what (32:27):
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Klaus Salminen: it's all about can you send me one of the films i just want to take a look at (32:33):
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Klaus Salminen: it i definitely can i mean yeah i try i see if the archive because they are (32:37):
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Klaus Salminen: having an archive and i don't know if it's still But I really, (32:42):
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Klaus Salminen: if you have the opportunity to go next year, it's every year. (32:46):
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Klaus Salminen: So what about it did inspire you? (32:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think just that people try to find their own solutions with moving image in (32:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a non-conventional way, (33:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: although sometimes there are already conventional experimental ways that I see. (33:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Sometimes it can be repetitive but it's (33:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just you know maybe in (33:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in like in that conventional filmmaking i feel (33:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that you really have to understand what it's all about you know the message (33:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: has to be clear and it's very it's following very um rules that are very obvious (33:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: obvious and everybody can relate to it and, you know, be touched by it or whatnot. (33:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And about more experimental works, I like that it's not that obvious and I have (33:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: to think about it and maybe also just sit there and. (33:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Feel maybe was it what it does with (33:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: me and kind of resonate with it and then (33:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: talk about it and have a discussion about it because (34:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i don't understand it maybe or you know (34:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like that i i feel i'm challenged more to think about it thought-provoking yes (34:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah and that really did did something to me like in a very i've inspired such (34:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a stupid word but i felt motivated to to, (34:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: restart working on my on my own (34:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: works instead of just you know just be in (34:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the cinema and be just okay you know and (34:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: also i'm very inspired by films that can (34:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: be done by a very small team or (34:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just one one person you know those films are usually films made (34:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: by one artist or two artists very low (34:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it can be very low budget and i think this is really cool because (34:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i really like the idea that i don't need (34:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: a lot lots of equipment or you know (34:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: lots of i need to be able to start right (34:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: now doing things and i think like (35:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in conventional filmmakings you have to get the funding and then you get your (35:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: crew and you know this whole process and i really like this feeling i just can (35:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: start i mean auteur yeah this kind of thing so where are you between the black (35:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: box and the white box today. (35:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Um i think i'm more going into the direction of black box because um i feel my film although. (35:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It maybe doesn't follow conventional rules of cinema. (35:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It still has a narration that is pretty clear and people can follow it. (35:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's not like, I don't know what is going on. (35:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's still understandable what it's about. (35:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I also like that about film. And it is why I also choose... (35:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's one reason that I like about filmmaking, opposed to paint or doing sculptures, (35:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: is that it doesn't create something physical in the room, (36:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: because I always hated that in art school, you know, then you have an exhibition (36:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and you create an installation and then you produce a sculpture for it, (36:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for example, something big. (36:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like there were students that created big installations and then in the end, (36:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, nobody buys the stuff. (36:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like, where is it going to go? Is it going to be stored? There's this huge storage (36:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: in art school where it's always a problem. (36:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: To whom does this belong? (36:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know, like once in a while we have to just throw everything away. (36:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's also, I don't like the idea of just things being produced for one exhibition (36:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and then they're being like stored away and being thrown away in the end. (36:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I think filmmaking is (36:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: so nice because you can just put it on a hard drive and it can be accessible (36:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for lots of people without being physically present and I mean still like the (37:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: hard drives are also piling up so yeah you know that Have you ever done claymation? Clay animation? (37:08):
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Alex DePew: You mean like no Very time consuming I love it though So when I see it, (37:16):
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Alex DePew: it's... It's so much fun. (37:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah. Do you know this from Sesame Street? Like those small... There was something. (37:25):
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Alex DePew: Yeah. When I was a kid, there was like... It was a very long time ago. (37:30):
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Alex DePew: So they had these like very rough animation, like very rough claymations. And there was just... (37:34):
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Alex DePew: You would just be so engaged yeah you'd just be staring at (37:41):
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Alex DePew: the screen and and then eventually i (37:44):
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Alex DePew: saw uh what's the aardvark movies the wallace and gromit wallace and gromit (37:47):
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Alex DePew: yeah this it's so cool yeah i remember that yeah i used to watch that with that (37:53):
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Alex DePew: as well yeah so fun so being an artist and mainly working alone. (37:58):
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Klaus Salminen: And I suspect it's also for yourself. (38:07):
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Klaus Salminen: So do you ever think about the audience who is going to see this later? (38:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Absolutely. I feel today I really had this moment and it's all along this process. (38:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, you can't sit by yourself all the time and then it's ready. (38:26):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's not going to work like that in between it needs discussion and today I had this and I wrote, (38:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: two emails one to my professor and one to friends of mine who are also filmmakers (38:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and I was like I need help I'm stuck I don't know like I'm at this point where (38:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I really need some like outside perspective and I need to talk about this because it also needs, (38:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: this view from outside to be finished and, (38:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I'm also sometimes at a certain point of the process, I would also edit with (39:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: someone together, like somebody would watch over my edit and help me because (39:06):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't have any distance anymore. (39:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: So this is very important, I think, if it's just… So you do work collectively? (39:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yes, but it's more that if I want to get help, I just ask for it and it's not like planned. (39:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: No, it's not like that I'm recruiting people to do that. It's just like people (39:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that I trust and whom I work with or whom I have been working with for a long (39:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: time and I ask them at a certain point. (39:36):
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Klaus Salminen: What did you get stuck on? (39:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Today? (39:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I'm at the moment working on a new project and I don't want to talk about what (39:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's about because I can't. (39:51):
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Klaus Salminen: But without talking about exactly what it is. (39:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But I feel for me, it's always, I have an idea. (39:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: A friend of mine, also a filmmaker, she told me that when she's making a film, (40:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like the themes coming to her and the themes are being so annoying that she (40:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just can't ignore them. And she has to do something about it. (40:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I was a little bit jealous because I always feel like I have something that I want to work on. (40:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But I just can't touch it. You know, it's there. (40:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: There and but just out of reach you know (40:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah and i don't know how it how it looks like (40:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i don't know how to approach it i don't (40:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know what to do i'm in this void like like what we were saying before about (40:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: languages i feel like for every work that it doesn't have to be necessarily (40:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: be um film or or artwork in general, (40:49):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I have to learn a new language. (40:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It feels that I'm trying to learn the language by not having a grammar book (40:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or being in the country or I don't know anyone who speaks the language. (41:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know, I just try to learn it. It's like, oh God. (41:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And eventually, yeah, and (41:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I'm most of the time in this part of the process where I'm most of the time (41:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I'm very desperate just oh my god like will I ever do a film again like I don't (41:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know can I can I do it I don't I don't believe it at the moment and eventually. (41:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Things start to pop up and this (41:36):
undefined

Charlotte Jacoby: is the hardest part I think it's getting easier once some footage is there and (41:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: once i can like start to create and just do do things this is really nice there (41:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i'm like really relaxed by this whole process before us to see. (41:53):
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Alex DePew: What helps you get those first few steps, like kind of like the, (41:59):
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Alex DePew: okay, now I'm doing it, now it's happening? (42:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think we talked about this earlier, the fact of being a student in an art (42:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: school helps, because I kind of have this purpose, okay, I'm an art student, I have to do something. (42:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I'm wondering, because I'm now doing my Meisterschule, which is like on top of the diploma. (42:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And next year i would (42:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: say goodbye to art school forever and i i don't know (42:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: how it's going to be after what like (42:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: who's going to kick my ass i don't know um but (42:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for now it's that so i'm still having like (42:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: group meetings one once a week um and yeah this and and what was the question (42:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: again and how am I how do I get started first of all and this is what I've been (42:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: doing the last month is creating time for myself, (42:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: to just have time to think about it, (42:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and yeah I was working on you know getting settled in my new job that I have (43:03):
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Charlotte Jacoby: which allows me which gives me enough time to now from this week on to have (43:10):
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Charlotte Jacoby: two three days in a week to just think about my project was really nice. Sounds cool. Yeah. (43:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And that already helped a lot, I feel. (43:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Just having the time and being desperate and just being there and being desperate and out of desperation. (43:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Out of desperation, sometimes good things. (43:33):
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Klaus Salminen: What would you say, so I'm thinking about those who are listening to this right now. (43:36):
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Klaus Salminen: And so you mentioned art school over and over again, how it's sort of, (43:42):
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Klaus Salminen: even though it doesn't necessarily mean that this is what actually makes you (43:48):
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Klaus Salminen: create but it's also there to kick your ass and etc etc, (43:51):
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Klaus Salminen: what do you say to those who try to apply to art school don't come in what can (43:55):
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Klaus Salminen: they do what would you advise those to do I think if you do something I mean (44:00):
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Klaus Salminen: when I started in an art school I have already been studying and doing other things before, (44:06):
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Klaus Salminen: and try again again and just do what you're doing at the moment. (44:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And if you're interested in doing, (44:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: something creative then do something (44:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: creative and maybe find some for (44:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: me it's always necessary to find some kind of not (44:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: to be all by myself but to find some kind of space for it maybe go somewhere (44:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or meet art people or I don't know maybe there's a space somewhere to go and (44:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and just because and And this is what I learned in art therapy school. (44:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's really all about starting to do something. (44:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know, it doesn't have to be the greatest thing of all. (44:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I remember in art therapy university, the first three months, (45:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: we just had to draw lines the whole day. (45:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And we had like a, how do you say, an ast, like a piece of a tree. (45:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And we would just attach a pen to it. And we were standing all day just drawing lines. (45:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was really, what the fuck am I doing here? (45:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And in the end, I feel to create, you just need to start creating. (45:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know, it doesn't matter in the beginning what it is, you know, (45:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: if it's good, bad or fine. (45:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: For me, it really helps to find a medium where I don't feel the pressure of it looking good. (45:42):
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Alex DePew: You know i could never paint because i always judge it it you know painting is so, (45:49):
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Alex DePew: like this doesn't look good or you know like um (45:56):
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Alex DePew: just start do something i think this (46:00):
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Alex DePew: is very can be very helpful and then things doesn't have (46:03):
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Alex DePew: to be cool you know and this (46:06):
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Alex DePew: is kind of like the pitch and planning is i (46:09):
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Alex DePew: think a good space is like a lot of people who are just starting (46:12):
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Alex DePew: out and they're looking for anything to work on because they (46:15):
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Alex DePew: have an interest but if you're going the traditional film route it's (46:19):
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Alex DePew: hard because it requires people and money and equipment so (46:22):
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Alex DePew: i think yeah like finding a group and just a people who are collaborated like (46:26):
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Alex DePew: and then just work with them as well and you'll like get in that way if you're (46:31):
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Alex DePew: doing it yourself like i said i have trouble like just sitting down and writing (46:35):
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Alex DePew: but you can always find a like-minded soul to kind of like Like do it with if you need that. (46:39):
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Klaus Salminen: We also have these weekend workshops, right? (46:46):
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Alex DePew: Yeah. (46:50):
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Klaus Salminen: So in the workshop, we just... (46:50):
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Klaus Salminen: And this idea that you have to get rid of your critical self. (46:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah. (46:59):
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Alex DePew: So kind of like your school idea is like, basically takes you through making (46:59):
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Alex DePew: a short film in a weekend. (47:03):
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Alex DePew: And the idea is, you've been wanting to do this for a while, and now you were forced. (47:05):
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Alex DePew: You're going to have to come up with a story. (47:11):
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Klaus Salminen: And it will not be perfect. (47:13):
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Alex DePew: It will not be something you're likely going to look at and go, this is Oscar worthy. (47:15):
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Klaus Salminen: Yeah, and you should shoot it on your mobile phone. Don't get a camera there. (47:20):
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Alex DePew: But it will be yours. It'll be something that you made that you were like, (47:24):
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Alex DePew: oh, I didn't know I could do this until you're done with it. (47:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And it's all really about being, how do you say, neugierig, like curious of things. (47:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think only because an art school or some professors approves your artwork (47:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and say you're in doesn't mean you're a good artist. (47:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think it's all about being curious and wanting to find something out. (47:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: You know it's not about creating something where everybody's (47:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: applauding you and say oh this is a great piece like (47:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: wow you're a good artist like a great um (47:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah for me it's more (48:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: about being curious how things work (48:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or about finding out for (48:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: me it's always about finding out something about myself self (48:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or the world and about being (48:14):
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Charlotte Jacoby: curious and then finding tools to just do (48:17):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it and you can do this definitely outside (48:20):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of art school i mean yeah for some people it's good for some people it's not (48:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that good i saw something in your bio about that your tv when you grew up got (48:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: broken and that became one of your inspirations to do moving images. (48:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It's a nice narration, right? (48:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: It was just a thought because I mean, I remember that the TV broke. (48:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know if it's even something. (48:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I definitely grew up without it. And I think I remember that it broke like the moment where it broke. (48:54):
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Charlotte Jacoby: But maybe I also created this memory in my mind. I mean, I must have been like (49:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: three years old or something. I don't know. (49:06):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, but I definitely grew up without television and just reading books. (49:09):
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Klaus Salminen: And how did that become an inspiration to do images, moving images? (49:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't know if it's an inspiration, but I (49:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: definitely think that it helps (49:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: me being a little bit (49:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: more naive towards moving image than maybe (49:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: somebody who grew up like having all those (49:32):
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Charlotte Jacoby: visual influences and I didn't have (49:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that at all so I don't (49:38):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know if it's an inspiration but I think it helps and it's (49:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: something that I really value is being very naive about (49:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: creating video and moving (49:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: image I think that really helps I really don't want to. (49:51):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Be professional and this is also what what I take (49:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: out from this like guest semester and also working on (49:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: some like more conventional film productions i'm really (50:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i want to keep this naivety and not (50:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: not i'm not being professional about i think it's really (50:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: good for me how does (50:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: this sound to a perfectionist like you alex i mean (50:16):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i always look at it as every c-sub perfectionist (50:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah i really i like struggle over like okay no (50:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like 10 percent less on the light or making sure this (50:26):
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Charlotte Jacoby: angle is just so and for me this is the way (50:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i work but i very much respect because i (50:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: work with directors who like are very different some are this is exactly what (50:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i want i want it to look like this this is the reference the camera should be (50:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: here lighting should look like this and then i've also worked with directors (50:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: who like i want to work with the actor i want to work on the story i have the (50:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: visual is your department and you take care of of it. (50:52):
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Alex DePew: So there's very varied people. And I'm artistic and technical. (50:55):
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Alex DePew: So that's my wheelhouse. But I very much respect, too, the people who are kind (51:00):
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Alex DePew: of auteurs, who are doing things on their own, kind of looking for their purest voice to come out. (51:06):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And you were also saying the word perfectionism. (51:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I think not being professional does not mean not being a perfectionist. True. (51:18):
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Klaus Salminen: How do you distinguish between these two things? (51:25):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, not being professional for me is like I didn't have had anyone teach (51:29):
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Charlotte Jacoby: me the rules of, let's say, camera, for example. I know how a camera works. (51:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I know more and more like I'm teaching myself, but I never actually had like (51:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: somebody telling me how to do it. (51:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I never learned like different approaches or like how to like frame a shot or something like that. (51:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Like I never, ever had someone teach me that. (51:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And same with like light and sound like i know. (51:59):
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Charlotte Jacoby: A little bit the basics but i i feel i (52:01):
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Charlotte Jacoby: want to know enough to start creating something and (52:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: to start working on something but i still (52:09):
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Charlotte Jacoby: want to do the best that i can do at (52:12):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the moment and i'm also getting better i (52:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: mean also i think my camera work is getting better (52:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or yeah it's yeah but maybe (52:22):
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Charlotte Jacoby: if a professional dop would look at (52:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it would say oh god like what is (52:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that but yeah but i'm still very much a (52:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: perfectionist i would say like i always try to do (52:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it the best i can and yeah what (52:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: does it perfection even mean like i don't know yeah there (52:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: is no there if you have so it (52:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: is art like if you have a camera and you (52:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: give it to three different dops and you say this is what we're (52:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: going for you're going to get three different shots (52:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: three different scenes it's not gonna (52:56):
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Charlotte Jacoby: be the same all right so there is no perfect art (52:58):
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Charlotte Jacoby: yeah and i think in your alex and (53:02):
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Charlotte Jacoby: your um and your profession like (53:05):
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Charlotte Jacoby: you are working lots um with light i mean you're (53:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: so you know so many things you are such a nerd in this field so obviously you (53:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: see and can are able to do things more refined much more refined things than (53:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: i i could do or anybody else and i think there is like there may not be a right way but sometimes. (53:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Depending on what you're doing there is a wrong way like there (53:30):
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Charlotte Jacoby: are things that are like oh it does not look but it's not (53:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: good for what you're trying to accomplish yeah but i (53:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel especially with light i mean i came to your lighting (53:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: workshop so i had a little insight and before i didn't know (53:43):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know anything about light and I feel with this I for my own projects I would (53:46):
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Charlotte Jacoby: not even start to set lights because I feel once I try to manipulate the light (53:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: there's going to be a wrong way and you would see like that if I do a bad lighting. (54:00):
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Alex DePew: Then you start to get into the not using yourself and adding people and it becomes a different beast. (54:07):
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Klaus Salminen: I do, however, think that perfectionism can be a huge hindrance to artistic expression. (54:16):
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Klaus Salminen: This idea that you sweat over details and something that probably 99% of people would never see. (54:25):
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Klaus Salminen: So I used to do a lot of theater before, like a classically trained actor. (54:32):
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Klaus Salminen: But I was always you know I beat myself up because I wanted to be perfect I (54:38):
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Klaus Salminen: wanted to do this and I needed to remember my lines and the way I walked over (54:44):
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Klaus Salminen: stage and all of that there was so much focus on all of that so I kind of got (54:48):
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Klaus Salminen: this pure joy of expressing things but then I discovered improvisation, (54:51):
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Klaus Salminen: and I was like boom all gone you're free to do whatever, (54:58):
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Klaus Salminen: and then I remember I went to there is this choreographer, (55:01):
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Klaus Salminen: that worked with ballet dancers and obviously (55:06):
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Klaus Salminen: ballet dancers are very perfectionist but he (55:09):
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Klaus Salminen: developed a dance style that is opposite for (55:13):
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Klaus Salminen: ballet dancers to train them off these (55:16):
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Klaus Salminen: rigid movements that they would make and it's (55:19):
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Klaus Salminen: really cool as you imagine there is a ball running through (55:22):
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Klaus Salminen: your body and you follow the ball sounds trippy but (55:25):
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Klaus Salminen: it's really cool so I think a good lesson (55:29):
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Klaus Salminen: for anybody regardless of where you are and what you do is (55:32):
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Klaus Salminen: to try improvisation or let this (55:35):
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Klaus Salminen: protectionism take it out and just (55:38):
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Klaus Salminen: see what you can do in the moment so um (55:41):
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Klaus Salminen: you mentioned that you're working on a project right now we can't talk about (55:44):
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Klaus Salminen: it that's fine but which path are you on i'm on the path that i i want i want (55:48):
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Klaus Salminen: to work on my projects on my own projects but i'm not seeing myself myself applying for grants and, (55:56):
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Klaus Salminen: you know, running for money to kind of do things. (56:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I just want to do things on my own pace. And the thing that I'm working on at (56:08):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the moment, I'm trying to kick my ass to really find my community and to, (56:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: because Berlin is a really good place to be. (56:19):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I came here 2008 and I, yeah, I still like it a lot. (56:23):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Um but i feel it's very (56:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: hard to stay in touch with people (56:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and but i want to stay in (56:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: touch with people and just like be in touch (56:37):
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Charlotte Jacoby: with people that um i can talk about films (56:40):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and meet and help each other (56:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like this small you know i (56:47):
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Charlotte Jacoby: think this is really important and yeah i (56:50):
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Charlotte Jacoby: want to visit more more film festivals and (56:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just you know have don't lose touch um (56:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: don't use the don't lose (57:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: the connection to the video art world (57:04):
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Charlotte Jacoby: or like this short film or whatever but yeah i (57:07):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just want to do it in my own pace and you (57:11):
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Charlotte Jacoby: know just do my thing what is it about berlin (57:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: that makes you want to stay here it's just (57:18):
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Charlotte Jacoby: really the only place that i'm seeing myself in because (57:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: berlin is so anonymous (57:24):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and i really like that i really enjoy but it's not true right now i know my (57:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: neighbors but i wish i i didn't know that now i really enjoy like being anonymous (57:34):
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Charlotte Jacoby: and like going out of my door and don't have to say hi to anyone and just, you know, (57:39):
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Charlotte Jacoby: just be here and the feeling that it's just a good place to be. (57:48):
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Klaus Salminen: What are the things that frustrates you in Berlin? (57:53):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Do you have something that frustrates you? (57:57):
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Klaus Salminen: In Berlin? (58:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yes. (58:01):
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Klaus Salminen: I would say actually it's a little bit akin to what you said. (58:02):
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Klaus Salminen: What frustrates me with Berlin and then based on what I do, it's like a transit, (58:06):
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Klaus Salminen: people are in transit in Berlin. (58:14):
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Klaus Salminen: So you always kind of refresh the people. (58:17):
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Klaus Salminen: And I think that's sometimes frustrating because it's like, oh, (58:21):
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Klaus Salminen: no, no, no, don't disappear. (58:24):
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Klaus Salminen: And I think that if you decide to stay and you are like having your base in (58:26):
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Klaus Salminen: Berlin as such, you will see this carousel of people. (58:31):
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Klaus Salminen: And I think that's both a good and a bad thing. That would frustrate. (58:35):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And how about you? (58:39):
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Alex DePew: So yeah that's definitely a negative i (58:40):
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Alex DePew: had a really good friend for a while and she was (58:43):
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Alex DePew: here we would always go like go watch movies or like hey (58:47):
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Alex DePew: i need to chat about something and scrap food she would do the same and she (58:50):
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Alex DePew: left and that was also like kind of like um other things is there seems to be (58:53):
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Alex DePew: a sort of lack of not everywhere and not all the time but lack of um, (59:00):
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Alex DePew: that seriousness about the craft like i (59:10):
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Alex DePew: meet a lot of people who are like yeah let's just make something make it cool (59:13):
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Alex DePew: but not make it like just make it like (59:16):
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Alex DePew: not in your way you're making it for yourself but if you're you're (59:19):
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Alex DePew: hiring a crew of like 10 you're asking (59:22):
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Alex DePew: them not to to give up your time and (59:25):
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Alex DePew: to work and maybe use your equipment maybe use your skills and then they don't (59:28):
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Alex DePew: plan it well they don't have an idea of what they want to do and then it's like (59:33):
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Alex DePew: yeah we're just making making something but no like if you want to make something (59:36):
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Alex DePew: make it as good as you can spend the time and come with a plan like so that (59:40):
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Alex DePew: you're not just figuring things out, (59:45):
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Alex DePew: i've stopped a day i've stopped using call sheets what's wrong with you no no (59:47):
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Alex DePew: but i've stopped using call sheets because people don't uh respect them oh in (59:52):
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Alex DePew: terms i send out call sheets and i'm waiting for answers and don't get the answers (59:57):
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Alex DePew: it's like why do i why am i even bothering, (01:00:00):
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Alex DePew: But don't you have that anywhere, I guess, that there are people that have taken it? (01:00:04):
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Klaus Salminen: I'm from the Nordics, we follow a structure. I think Germany as such does it, (01:00:09):
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Klaus Salminen: but I don't think Berlin does it. (01:00:13):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Yeah, and coming back to asking the question to myself, I really like this feeling (01:00:15):
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Charlotte Jacoby: of driving through the city in the night on my bike and just feeling a little bit lost, (01:00:20):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I like that. I just feel that no one ever can really belong to Berlin, really. (01:00:27):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I mean, I'm not from here. I chose this as my, where I want to live. (01:00:36):
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Alex DePew: Vote Berliner? (01:00:42):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Wahlberliner. Yes. What is that? Wahlberliner. It's like when you chose to be a Berliner. (01:00:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Wahl. Wahl, like choice. Oh, Wahlberlin. (01:00:53):
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Klaus Salminen: Okay. I didn't know that was a term. (01:00:55):
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Alex DePew: And Wahl is to vote, no? (01:00:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Wahl is, yeah, or like have the choice, like I choice Berliner, so to say. (01:01:00):
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Klaus Salminen: No, I think just to end on that part when it comes to Berlin, (01:01:06):
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Klaus Salminen: for me, the first time I came to Berlin, I had that same revelation. (01:01:11):
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Klaus Salminen: Wow, you can just be, you don't have to worry too much about finance and you (01:01:15):
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Klaus Salminen: also saw a lot of people coming from all around the world just because they (01:01:22):
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Klaus Salminen: felt like I can express myself, (01:01:26):
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Klaus Salminen: I don't have to have a 9-to-5 job, etc., etc. (01:01:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: And I think to wrap this up, we also had this conversation in the bar when we first met. (01:01:31):
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Charlotte Jacoby: What I still like about Berlin and I think never lost it is that I feel like here are so many people, (01:01:36):
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Charlotte Jacoby: like different people from different backgrounds, but i (01:01:45):
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Charlotte Jacoby: feel that there is a communication between (01:01:48):
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Charlotte Jacoby: them you know like it's fine there's space (01:01:52):
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Charlotte Jacoby: for everyone and you can be who you want to (01:01:55):
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Charlotte Jacoby: be and people are like being together (01:01:57):
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Charlotte Jacoby: you know and not like separating the groups i mean it also happens but here (01:02:00):
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Charlotte Jacoby: it's yeah it's different from where i come from and i really appreciate that (01:02:06):
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Charlotte Jacoby: different yeah i think on that note thank you so much Thank you so much. It was really nice. (01:02:10):
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Klaus Salminen: Absolutely. (01:02:18):
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Alex DePew: The quote that we started with. (01:02:19):
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Klaus Salminen: Ah, the quote. (01:02:21):
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Charlotte Jacoby: So the Louise Bourgeois quote. It's not even my words, but that's perfect. (01:02:23):
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Alex DePew: I think this is a good way to kind of end it and just revisit the quote. (01:02:28):
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Charlotte Jacoby: What was it again? (01:02:32):
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Alex DePew: We have to see ourselves as we are. (01:02:33):
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Charlotte Jacoby: Ah, we have to see ourselves as we are, yes. (01:02:36):
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Alex DePew: So that, I think, what was that? (01:02:39):
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Klaus Salminen: And maybe also love ourselves as we are. (01:02:41):
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Charlotte Jacoby: I don't i think we just have to be okay with who we are i think love is not (01:02:44):
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Charlotte Jacoby: always necessary but yeah that's another discussion for sure yeah okay thank you so much. (01:02:49):
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CineBerlin - Film as an artistic endeavor, an interview with Charlotte Jacoby

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}CineBerlin - Film as an artistic endeavor, an interview with Charlotte Jacoby