Monster's Ball vs Catwoman

Halle Berry week is upon us at last! What feline ferocity does she bring to these Oscar and Razzie worthy performances? Honestly, she's enjoyable in pretty much anything, even Catwoman, so this week's outcome is up forn grabs!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Ophelia. What do you think aboutgoofy action adventure comic book movies? And
what do you think about racism?Well, I guess that solves it.

(00:21):
We watched Monster's Ball and Catwoman Champagne, Champagne Champagne, the schlocky movie from
this week, maybe the schlockiest filmwe've ever seen on the podcast. I'm
mister Pinks Blue. So Miranda hasn'tseen Reservoir? Do those men's children are

(00:44):
all identical clones of Adolf Hitler?Once they were men, now they are
land crafts? Manda Bines is anational treasure. There's like a bunch of
other shit that happens in Driven.Is their secret Nazis, Yeah, secret
Nazis. No one from my family. Usiness to this podcast week is Hey

(01:07):
everyone, welcome to the pot that'sgoing with that? Hey everyone, um,
welcome, welcome back. We've hada little break, so we're feeling
giddy about doing a movie, amovie version of this again. Finally getting
to our holly Berry week. Sean, are you okay? Tornadoes hitting it?

(01:29):
Just sorry, it just like gothurricane windy out there. I don't
know, I I can't wait tobike home. Um. Yeah, So
anyway where it's a stormy stormy night. It was a stormy stormy night when
all the children gathered around their CitizenKane versus lunch boxes. Uh, and
and Citizen Kane versus bed sheets andcereal boxes. Yeah, cereal boxes are

(01:53):
Citizen Kane verses about our cereal becities, citizens sugar Citizen grain. That's
sugarcane versus sugarcane. And they're likelittle vs's Yeah, it's pretty good,
and like little orson Wells's heads.That's marshmallows. That's the winner. Yeah,

(02:15):
they're little little wellsy cereal. Yeah. There it is um so hi
uh. If you're not familiar withthe with the pod and you listen to
the first ninety seconds of that drivelwe just did. Um. My name
is Jack Renny, and I'm joinedby my two friends, a one Sean

(02:35):
Jacqueline and the lesser Daniel ben Watthat's right, say your name. I
love that you always go to likelaunch into something new and then just go
no. Yeah. Usually there's thatthere's always that hope that as I go
to launch into something, something reallyclever will come to mind and it'll just
flow through me. This episode eightyseven, I think, so I've learned

(02:57):
my lesson. That's why I don'tdo it. Okay, yeah, hm,
I want you to believe in yourself. Man, I've had eighty seven
episodes, So show me why Ishouldn't. All right, let's try again.
Okay, I'm Jack Rannie and joinedmy two friends, the one Daniel
Benois and the worst Sean Jesus dude, never mind, don't believe in yourself?

(03:20):
So um, I should have saidthe Oscar and the Razzie. So
because we're doing halle Berry Week thisweek. So yeah, how this works?
Fucking hell? How this works isthat we take two movies and one
of them considered to be more ofa classic and the other one more on
the schlocky side, and they're linkedby something a theme, a word of
the title, an actor like thisweek, Oh I know, I know
what a novel idea, because thisweek is halle Berry Week Oscar versus the

(03:43):
Razzie. First first impressions, Howhow was the viewing experience today? I
had a great time. It waspretty fun. This was like a good,
good week of like a movie thatfeels like, you know, it's
Oscar bait, YadA, YadA,versus a movie that just had so you're
gonna imagine during the production how hardthis must have been to be a part
of that kind of movie. Youknow what, man, I honestly,

(04:04):
I'll say two things. One,I don't know that I ever used the
word fun to describe my experience watchingMonster's Ball. Too. I did get
the impression that probably no one knewhow bad this movie was going to be
went on set. The script ispretty bad, but it feels but it
was so manufactured in post Yeah,I feel like it was probably a surprise

(04:30):
to most of the cast. Idon't know if it was a surprise because
they had to say those words,right. Yeah. But there's a difference
between knowing the writing is bad andand thinking it's going to be that just
a bad movie, you know whatI mean? And like, and I
will say that Catwoman I think camethrough in that it is kind of so

(04:53):
bad that it's good, Like itdoes kind of venture into that territory,
but it's but it's undeniably a badMOVI movie. But I'm I'm I'm pretty
because also here's the thing, likethe actors don't know what the camera's doing.
No, you know what I mean, the actors don't know Sometimes the
camera isn't even like what we're seeingfrom the camera is so constructed, is
actually like not done by a cameraat all, It's done by a computer.

(05:15):
Well, this is what I'm saying. But but even when like those
shots where the camera is like flowingthrough the room or like roaming through the
room, I guess, um,the actors don't know what that looks like.
They just know that they're doing it. Yeah, right, Yeah,
I'm kind of saying actually more likeactors aside. I was thinking of like
the production clip production crew, peoplewho've made movies for years, who were
like, this isn't enough to like, you know, like they must have

(05:38):
known what the limits were. Yeah. Well that's the thing too, is
that like it seems like it's they'rethey're really trying to count on and rely
on CGI at a time where likeCGI is not that advanced, right,
Like, oh, when do theprequels come out for Star Wars? We
were past that one and two thousandand three, Jesus, and this is

(06:00):
two thousand and four. What doesthat sound anyways? Um? Yeah,
so I think that's yeah, Ithink that the crew probably got worried at
times. Yeah, and I feellike this movie was trying to be in
the same like it was in thesame era as like the Joel Schumacher Batman's
right, it's a few years after, seven years after, but definitely in

(06:20):
the vein, but yeah, exactlytrying to be in that vein of had
Batman yet exactly. So that's whatsuperhero movies were still. They were these
like kids commercials turned yeah movie,Yeah, weird clicking thing anyway, And
but those movies even still were muchmore selective in like those movies also built

(06:42):
big elaborate sets, you know,to compliment that and use the CGI for
more like swooping landscape stuff and theoccasional well you know. But anyway,
So it's just I don't know exactlywhy they thought they could get away with
this, other than what must havebeen some sort of like negligence or like,
I mean, they're they're they're makinga superhero movie. So I think
that there is they were expecting thatkind of leniency that you get from shooting

(07:06):
in like a cartoon, like you'reyou're shooting a live action cartoon, right,
I guess, Well, and Idon't know what else petof has done
but uh yeah, we can getinto that, but I mean outside of
that, it's looking it up.This was rushed into production when another like
Superhero film project fell through from Iguess it's Warner Brothers probably they own the

(07:31):
rights to the DC stuff. Soyeah, so because they were trying to
do they we're trying to do aCatwoman spinoff since the nineties when Michelle Pfeiffer
was Catwoman and Batman returns a greatcat Woman, Great Catwoman, and they
could just never agree on shooting thatone. And then oh who was it?
Uh oh, they went through likeNicole Kidman at one point was which

(07:53):
is weird because she's in Batman Forever. Uh, there's like another Batman forever.
She's the woman. I can seeher being a dopecatwoman doctor or something
something. Yeah, well yeah,yeah, this is Val Kilmer a lot
um. And then Halle Berry wassupposed to do a spinoff from two thousand

(08:15):
two's Die Another Day, her characterfrom that Bond film Jinx was supposed to
get a spinoff series, but thatfell through. Yeah, so then Warner
Brothers was like, make a Catwomanreally fast, I see, and that
turned out well so will in thecomics or any other iteration of catwoman.

(08:37):
Does she have that kind of superhumanagility or is she just like a woman
in a cat suit. She's avillain Okay, No, she's she's a
vigilante with Batman. Well, likeshe doesn't have the same moral compass.
Yeah, she doesn't like just murderor do anything like right evil, But

(08:58):
she's supposed to be like a cat. Yeah, where it's like, oh,
you're cat burglar doing whatever you want. Yeah, that's what Even at
the end of this movie she says, like this is real freedom. Right,
I'm good, I'm bad when Iwant to be right or whatever she
says. But does she have thatthose like super human abilities? I can't

(09:18):
speak to the comics. I don'tabout in the movie. I'm not a
nerd. I mean, Eartha kitmostly just went wow in the sixties.
Um, and who was the otherthere were two sixties catwomen? Uh?
Like no, I have a shortanswer. No, Michelle Pfeiffer has yeah,

(09:39):
kind of a similar story, butshe's not like she's not super human
leaping no, no, in returningbuildings. But the kind of actually anyway,
it's a it was a weird itwas a weird movie, but I
think the pairing was fun. Yeah, Like this felt like a fun pairing.
I don't know how those stack up. I guess one another, but

(10:01):
I don't think there's some areas.I'm a little torn on if there are
areas to discuss. Yeah, Soin case, in case anyone is lost
and wants to know more. Uh, let's transition to our thematic boxing intros
to the movies. In the redcorner representing the classics. After a corrections

(10:26):
officer and his corrections officers son electrocutepuff Daddy combs, the corrections officer's son
kills himself. Then P Diddy's wifeHallie berries his son gets hit by a
car and dies, and then somehowcorrections officer Dad, Billy Bob s Thornton's
dad doesn't die somehow. Then thenyou can kind of start and it's about
racist Billy Bob and racism, halleBerry fallen in love kind of and people

(10:50):
changing, and some tough stuff happens, but it's mostly kind of nice now
like America coming in at one hundredand twelve minutes star Halleberry and Billy Bob
Thornton Monsters ball and in the bluecorner representing the schlock. When halle Berry

(11:15):
uncovers that her movie's plot is thesame poison makeup plot from Michael Keaton's Batman,
the company tries to kill her witha waterfall. Luckily for her,
an ancient cat god revives her asCatwoman, with the powers of a split
personality, cat like refleences and theability to become CGI at will. She
must save a nondestript amount of peoplefrom Sharon Stone's Stone Faced acting coming into

(11:37):
one hundred and four minutes starring Halleberryand Benjamin Bratt cat Woman. And there
you have it. Now you knowtwo to three sentences more about each movie.

(11:58):
It's true what no, Well,Evie wants to be in the podcast,
right, It's okay, So Ifeel like we should get into it.
Yeah, I think it's time.So let's begin and jump into our
first official round, which is storygood fight. I mean, I'm curious

(12:26):
to hear everyone else's opinion. GoodWhen you phrase it that way in such
simple, stark, deliberate terms,I don't know, it doesn't because because
Catwoman is is kookie bad story,bad bad writing. But like this story

(12:46):
story is just in line with anyother superhero thing, like the base story
makes sense? Is that Cat Woman'sorigin story though, that she dies and
then a cat breathes superhuman strength intoher. No, okay, she's just
like a cat burglar that's very athleticand goes wow a lot. Well,
but but the but the fucking Michellefiverer one. Yeah, she gets my

(13:09):
cats. She dies, and thesame thing, she's brought back by cats.
It's actually quite similar. So becauseyou're alright, f no, and
then what's then what's chow? Fcho? What do you think he called
me a chow? Oh? Whatwhat's a chow? Well, let's move
past it. Okay, all right, um, so then what what's the

(13:30):
story? And in Monster's Ball Monster'sBall was it was a movie that started
off a fucking heavier than any movieas any business being like, so,
I don't know what that was.Cudgel is like a big stick, a
big stick you hit people with.Yeah, just completely unnecessary. Um,

(13:54):
which, like he leg and there'sit was everything it seems so like I
guess, I guess it's all kindof pivotal to the story to like them
meeting and having something to relate tohold. I'm gonna put that dog away.
Okay, I'll say this while then'sdoing that. The story for Four

(14:15):
Monsters Ball does feel a bit likemeandering, does it a little bit?
I think there's like I think it'sall very clear, like throughfare of of
hate, hate, beginning hate,and like the fallout from that. Oh
yeah, I'm not saying I don'tsee that. Okay, I'm not even

(14:37):
saying this is a bad thing yet, right, but there's a little bit
of it being like, especially inthe beginning, while it takes this time
to set up why by having pdid he executed and all this kind of
stuff that it's like, um,the movie feels a little bit like like
and then this, and and thenthis and then this. Like its interesting

(14:58):
in a way that's kind of interestingthat you can't tell where the engine of
the movie is. It just feelsit's like it's supposed to have this like
southern dryness yeah, and like everything'shot squid yeah, or like no one
really fights for everything. Everyone's justlike melting. There's a number of scenes
where it's just two people sitting staringforward going because it's so hot yeah,

(15:24):
and she's like why do you dothat? And he's like I don't know.
I guess something and I don't know. It made me feel something,
but it's also it's also like peoplewho have never had an opportunity to express
emotions because of the like conditions they'vebeen brought up in. Yeah except for

(15:50):
anger and hatred and suddenly not likehe's so awkward because he's never felt love
and he's just like how do II? And like that scene where she's
ship faced on the couch and wantshim to feel good, but like I
was watching him and there's so muchof like, yeah, why do I
do? I hear? Oh,which is why he asks what do you

(16:11):
want me to do about this?Yeah? So I think I think it
tells It does tell its story andreally interesting ways I'm saying again, like
I said, like meandering in asort of an interesting way. I kind
of liked that it wasn't like this. Some movies are really formulaic and like
we need to have the moment wherethis happens, and like this movie doesn't
quite of that thing where it's like, oh, this is the part where

(16:33):
like stuff goes bad and they aren'ttogether and they have to figure it out.
Like it doesn't quite do that,and it's just things are always bad.
So the movie is about figuring itout. Yeah, and so it
skips that. Yeah, that's differentstuff in ways that I liked. But
I do. We might be talkingabout different parts of the movie, but
I do. I definitely felt themeandering element. But like the in the

(16:56):
latter half of the film, Ifelt that as soon as the living room
scene happened where she shit faced andwants to feel good and like they make
that connection, everything goes downhill becausesuddenly there's no real conflict except for having
to deal with sure the racist theracism of his dad. Well then then
well, but this is the pointof the story, if you were to

(17:18):
map it out or give it alog line, it is man overcomes his
racism through loss and finding connection witha black woman. Like that's that's there
is the story. I would Iwould say the actual climactic moment is at
the end, and it's halle Berriesand it's when they're eating ice cream and
she has the urge to continue thepattern of like you you lied to me.

(17:42):
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna get madat you and leave you, and
we're gonna hurt each other. Andshe very visibly makes the choice to just
let it go because she's in agood place and he loves her and she's
falling for him, Yeah, letit go. Or but but but is
she in a good place though,because like he willfully omitted that information,

(18:02):
which means that he's already he's alreadylaying a foundation of deceit yeah for the
relationship, and she's and she isshe's very much dependent on him. Yeah.
But I think that's kind of theiragreement as we see in the scene
just a couple of moments before,where he's like, I want to take
care of you, and she's like, that's good, I need taking care
of yeah, right, Which iswhy I think I had a problem with

(18:25):
how they kind of ended that scenewhere it seems like she's realizing what a
good place she's in, when realityit is her accepting the fact that I
think it's more it's not like acceptingthat, oh I'm I'm in the best
place. I think there's still alot of like fear of going forward,
but it is it is a choiceof I will just embrace this person I'm

(18:45):
with and I'll make it work ifI can, rather than choosing that moment
to be like, I'm out ofhere, you lie to me. It's
it's almost like that in the intentionof that line that when you make me
feel good, she's choosing to feelgood. Yeah with this person, Yeah,
kind of regardless. And it's symbolizedby him like only giving her oral
and the sex beforehand, where he'svery much just like giving to her,

(19:07):
and then he goes and gets icecream. Right, he does a physical
act of kindness if you want toput that in, of like generosity in
the moment, and then goes andbuys her ice cream. So he is
already acting as a caregiver and providerand like in terms that some people would
consider submissive. Yeah, which issafe for some people. Yeah. So

(19:30):
the look the regardless of if youlove this story or not, it's like
something it makes you. It'll giveyou some thinkers, Oh for sure.
You know, there's a lot ofa lot of the dialogue and stuff that
is well crafted. Yeah, it'swell crafted. It's got a lot of
those great moments of like you peppersomething in early and then it pays off.
There's a lot of that throughout.The only thing I don't know about
is the white spoon. White.Yeah, I know, white is a

(19:52):
recurring thing, but yeah, theplastic spoon, like, is that just
because he's kind of like, well, that was a thing, right,
It wasn't even it wasn't even acolor ba thing. At least they didn't.
They didn't make that clear. Whiteis safety. I guess to him,
he paints the house white when hehis father's gone, and yeah,
yeah, maybe I think there's somethingin Yeah, but talk about formulas.

(20:12):
Let's talk about Catwoman. Yeah,okay, formula. So they took the
formula they heard about what a superheromovie could be. There's at a time
when like superhero movies were not aspopular. There's still kind of like Spider
Man was the best one in thepast like decade. And wait, so
I guess Spider Man had already happened. Yeah no, wait so but really,

(20:33):
speaking of formulas, here's the partthat we access them out. So
speaking of the Tim Burton Batman movies, right with second one that had Catwoman
Michelle, but the first one,the plot of that movie is the plot
of this movie. It's about theJoker releasing a fatal makeup talks. Oh
yeah, it's literally the same premise. That's right. I was also unclear

(20:56):
as to one weird. I didn'tknow that they rely been like five superhero
movies at that point. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's pretty bad, but
so okay, So this first ofall, she kills that she being Sharon
Stone, kills her husband. Yeah, claiming that no one's going to get

(21:18):
in the way of the release ofwhat eventually became bo line when they initially
introduced it as bolan Um. Butat what point did the husband say he
wanted to hate? Okay? Great? Yeah, So then thing the second,

(21:41):
this gave her superpowers, and thisis the thing that she wanted to
release to the world instead of Hordefor herself. I guess hypothetically it would
it would empower the women of theworld, in particular because it's like a
women's product, and she had lotsof lines being like, I'm a woman,
I'm used to doing stuff that Idon't want to do. Yeah,

(22:03):
okay. It was in that erawhere like, well, we have a
female protagonist, we gotta have itbe a female antagonist because we can't.
We can't have a woman beating upa man, now, can we?
Or vice it probably you know,say vice verse facey verse. It would
have been it would have been Iguess a more predictable, uh twist,

(22:25):
but welcome. If Benjamin Bratt wasin fact the villain, if he was
a joke, if he was thejoke, if he wasn't just and Batman,
Benjamin Bratt's joker would be Benjamin Brattman. Whoa right, it's right there,
it's right there. Um okay.And then thing the third why did
her face start to crack at theend of the fight scene plot? The

(22:48):
writer was like, now this happensthat it was? It was very much
that right, Yeah, yeah,one shot she was fine. In the
next shot she had cracks on herface, right, and she had been
using it continuously. There was noneed for her face to turn into a
reptile. No, Well, theynever explicitly laid out how any of that
worked, what the timeline was,Yeah, how's how it worked. Yeah.
It just was a like how muchhow much did Sharon Stone really test

(23:12):
this? How did she know that? Like she was on that one scene?
Yeah I know, But did shehave someone like beating her with a
bat and being like, I'm invulnerable. I feel nothing. I know because
I've really pushed this to the limits. Marble Stone skin yeah, I don't
know if that's as strong as shethinks it is, no kind of fragile

(23:33):
if you drop it, I guessprecious, but like it chips, Yeah
yeah. Did anybody else feel badfor Benjamin Brattman at the end when he
like definitely compromised his job and hismoral and she's like, yeah, no,
pretty fucking funny. But he isan annoying character. Why though,
I mean he was he was.He's supposed to be the like good is

(23:56):
good and all we must all begood, and good is the thing that
I decide as good. But hewas good. Kids, Yeah, choose
good, you will be good foryou don't be bad? All right,
let's go shoot some hoops. Yeah, um, and terrible quality to have
though onus. But it's just it'sjust black and white and like right,
Like there's no definition to what he'stalking about other than the vague him being

(24:18):
a cop means that, like,don't be criminal, it's good advice.
Yeah. I was gonna say,I believe her actual breakup note did read
just wow? Are you gonna saythat? I was gonna say, name
one other character in the movie thathas any kind of real depth or or
a definition none of them, justas straight up archetype, none of them.

(24:42):
Sharon Stone's character is just Alex Borstein'scharacter. She's horny, she had
her own and an alcoholic she yeah, she's every every scene she's talking about
how much you wanted to drink orguzzling a massive martini or something that might
it's just been her improving. She'suh, she's a lush. It's a

(25:03):
hot lush, hot lush. Whoa, Well, there you have it.
Wow. Shall we take our firstlittle possible commercial break and we'll see either
in a second or a number ofseconds. Yea of them? All right?
Season yet I don't know? Ohyeah, the last one. I
listened to the same ad three timesin a row. Who enjoy the same
ad for the first time? Allright, Blue, we're back. Whoa,

(25:30):
Okay, I didn't mean to leadus, and I was just letting
you know that we're back. No, no, no, And what next?
Dan comes next? If you're so, what does come next? Um?
And the citizen Kane of the weekis yep, yeah probably good no,
but come on, Dan, allright yourself here, I got it?
Fuck you here we go? Allright? And beginning of round two

(25:53):
production? Good yeah, suck aJack. That was pretty good. Thank
you, thank you. I've onlylistened to eighty seven episodes of this one
hundred times. I should bring backI almost had died yea. So production,
Um, this one is an interestingone. Mainly interesting. Yeah.

(26:17):
I would say both both movies sufferedfrom critical production errors, and I don't
know which one is more egregious.The soundtrack in Catwoman is by far the
number one culprit. I honestly think, I honestly think if they had done

(26:38):
a better job with the with thescore of that movie, it would have
been like twice as good. Likethat. I think that there there there
was a salvageable film, and they'rejust with what they shot and cut together
two thousand and four. That's agood soundtrack, I think. No,
it was a terrible soundtrack. Itwas a terrible, terrible soundtrack. But
for two thousand and four things Ithink of the Daredevil soundtrack, think of
the movies comes it is it ismusic that is representative of the time.

(27:04):
Yeah, but it is not representativeof the movie from music. Yeah,
it was really bad. Wow thatlike Late nine really just they should have
got the elf man, you know, really should should have just made it
a full Warner Brothers DC Copro.Yeah, got the Elfman in there?
What is the elf Man? Dannythe Elfman, Danny Elfman. Yeah,

(27:26):
I'm lost, Um, fair enough, but this is so that's that is
that's that was. My issue withCattleman was just the terrible, fucking,
like weird Aliah esque RnB that seemedto underscore every scene, no matter what
it was. Um yeah, Imean that's funny that you. I feel
like I had issues that were forme. It was like the editing and

(27:48):
the coloring and the color choice ofshot. The editing and editing is awful.
The fights are so yeah, theediting, the rapid cuts of everything
that it was it was very unnecessary. I think in the very in the
opening shot when what's his face isintroducing bo line to his boardroom, Um,

(28:11):
it cuts to like six different anglesin like under a minute, all
of him doing the same speech.Nothing tells anything any more of this story,
Like no, like there was norhyme reason to the cuts. Um.
So yeah, the cuts. Theediting was was pretty bad. The
CG I wasn't as upset with becauselike, what are you gonna do?
I kind of think it ruled likefor the most part, I don't.

(28:34):
Well. What I will say is, first of all, those sweeping landscape
shots that were mainly CGI did notbother me as much as they bothered you
Jack, because it's nice CGI andlook and problem with it their ability to
transition from CGI to real life wasit was flawless. It was done really
well, to the point where,like I could, I lost count of

(28:55):
how many times You Jack were like, oh that was that was pretty fucking
Oh yeah, look again, I'mnot going to overly harp on it.
There was there was one time thatI definitely laughed at it, but it's
true I wouldn't fight it. Itwas like, generally speaking, pretty well
done. I gave props to thewhip cut was sick. It was great,

(29:15):
honestly, good enough that they couldhave done it twice more and it
wouldn't have been bothered. The catCG was bad. Was especially when when
it was on her chest. Thescale got fucked around with because the cameras
moving around it, and so itgot like really big at times and then
was small on her chest, andthen it zoomed in and it got really
big again before it coughed in hermouth. But overall, I would say,

(29:40):
like the editing was was bad,but there was clearly like they were
clearly going for a unique kind oflook for this movie. Yeah, that
was. That was very dynamic andlike for the most part, the camera
work, whether you like the choiceof shots or not, it was pretty
clean, like it was. Itwas a clean movie in a lot of
ways. The sound was it umand the lighting a lot was pretty.

(30:07):
It seemed like a part of avision. And it's also a bit of
like the time right, like itlooks identical to any other similar movie coming
out at the time. Yeah,Petoff, I looked up. That's his
like nickname. I don't know whatname, but he was mostly like an
illustrator and like graphic designer for moviesbefore that. The only other major film

(30:30):
he directed was a French film thatwas like famously the first at this genre
of film that it was all donein CG. Yeah, I see,
so he's a he's a computer graphicspioneer. I would say, Okay,
okay, that makes sense, thatmakes sense. So I know that I'm

(30:51):
kind of taking up this this time, but I bet I'm trying to take
thought the In contrast, Monsters Ballalso had to issues with their sound.
They're they're scoring the levels on theirscoring were so bad that it was enough
rumbling my speakers at points. Yeah, I think he blew one of your
speakers. Yet it was totally distorted. But but far more um egregious in

(31:15):
that was the fucking camera work inthat movie. I knew that would piss
you off, dude. I wouldsay fifty percent of the shots in that
film were out of focus. Fiftypercent, like like not exaggerating the amount
of times where I was watching it, where I was watching it, and
like the back wall is sharp andthe person is completely blurry. Do you

(31:36):
not think that that would that wouldbe a choice at that point though,
No, I honestly think it wasshotty camera word. I think they were
shooting on film potentially, oh forsure, and they and they didn't catch
it. And there was some therewas some weird camera moves in that film,
like during that living room scene thatand I think that what I think
those were in those felt more intentionalwhere I agree the about your focus and

(32:00):
even I like, here's the thing, like I'm not an expert with film
production, but like we're also likewith Catwoman, if you want to like
recognize what bad editing looks like.You'll you'll have a better chance of seeing
it in this movie because you're notsupposed to see it. That's Catwoman,
Yeah, and Cato in Monster's Ball. You might catch some of it.
And I caught it in the cutsas well, where it would cut to
a different angle and it would notbe the same kind of focus or like

(32:24):
I think I mentioned like is thisa different camera? Yeah, we were
watching it. I was like,what's happening? And it didn't feel in
those moments, it didn't feel likethis is a choice. In the make
me feel good scene, it's asexy scene. Um, they that felt
like, I agree. I thinkit was supposed virus. Like we're looking

(32:44):
through the window and we're ship facedwith them, so it's all just memories
that is coming to ye we're inthe room. That felt like I don't
know why they made that choice,but yeah, because they were even weird
art stuff. That was only partof the movie where the cinematography shifted with
the bird and the cage shots likethere was something else going on. Oh

(33:04):
yeah, that the editing for thatwhole scene was weird, and they like
just a lot of unnecessary gratuitous sexualityin that movie, like sitting on like
sitting on halle Berry for what wasit like like copperas of a minute for
that fucking oral sex scene with herand Billy Bob Thornton didn't add anything.
There's like a naked pan shot.Well yeah, yeah, like there was

(33:29):
definitely, there was definitely, umwhat we're looking for. They took advantage
of the fact that they were ableto sexualize. So I disagree with that
one, okay, because that issupposed to be a moment where she has
gone through hardship with the person whoshe had thought she trusted and now she's
having to trust again. She's havingto like relax and you know, trust

(33:52):
trust this man to you know,make her come or whatever, and and
it cuts out. We stay onit with her for a while, but
when she's beginning to climax, itcuts to them cuddling afterwards, so we
don't actually see kind of like themost vulnerable moment of that act is what
I would push back with. Whatabout the moment though, where she was

(34:13):
a sleeping naked and it pans downacross her Oh sure, yeah, okay,
But like Catwoman's ass was in everyinch of That's the whole point of
that movie was when she wasn't CGI. We'll get into this. I feel
like halle Berry was barely in themovie. Um so, but I agree,
I agree. I can see iton them. Yeah. So yeah,

(34:35):
there's definitely some funny stuff. Yeah, music and both kind of funny.
The stuff the CGI Catwoman, Imean, the costuming is wacky,
Pataki, that's a weird one tobring up. Oh, it's rough,
it's rough. Her head looks oddwell, and they're really like, I
know, it's kind of a clicheat this point in a superhero film to
like watch how they create the costumeand see how that it all comes about.

(35:00):
I mean mainly it's a it's aSpider Man trope, I guess,
yeah, But to have zero explanationto just cut to a scene where she
has it from her friend. Butthat's a different thing, different costume.
I know, if she had justworn that with like a masquerade balld mask
would be better. It would havebeen better as they did in the Christian

(35:21):
Bale Batman's that's literally what it's right, that's right, right, right,
Okay, they really kept it simplein the fight straight from Daredevil, the
Fight, the Basketball Fightsketball speaking oflike fucked up editing and stuff, and
just like I guess it was inproduction too, because it's like a direction
choice. This movie had a bunchof that, Like I joke about it,
but it's annoying when you see itenough times. The fucking claps for

(35:43):
the hero trope as a directional choice, Like I think there's, um,
what's the everything wrong with YouTube thing? You know, everything wrong with some
and so in twenty minutes or whatever, and that guy always points out like,
oh, like eat an apple tomake you look more like an asshole,
like he's really seen that at atime, Like that's just like now
you're just st trope. It's atrope when you're a bad director of trope.

(36:04):
And that collapse for the hero thinggets really annoying after a while,
and especially when it's like they're playingbasketball. Oh the kids love them,
Yeah, the kids are like whoaAnd also like having cat powers wouldn't make
you better at basketball? Cats aredopea basketball? See a cat? Yeah,

(36:29):
Airpus, that might be the firstthing that I want to cut out
of a podcast. Air Pus,you said it. It just feels gross
coming out of your mouth. It'sa great movie, a great spinoff flick
That's terrible stars Billy Bob Thornton Yepas bad Sannah and his character adopts a

(36:51):
cat. So and we didn't eventalk about the fact that they used the
same uh shot twice they did office, the establishing shot of the office,
they were in the same clothing ontwo separate work days. Yeah, so
that's a big fuck up, likeclear that they shot on the same day.
And as we noted, like ohthe bit the costume people were like

(37:13):
the other no idea. Yeah,well the racks in Vancouver, we didn't
know whoops or they just kept shootingand they never told anyone, so they
never changed it. Like our costuminghad different costumes on standbys, they probably
would they have a backup shit andthen just be like, oh, oh
that was for the next day,you assholes. Maybe they're just trying to

(37:34):
point out that halle Berry is justpoor and everyone else in the Yeah,
Ale was wearing the exact samee andthe guy leaning over the railing as the
camera pans up, and the guywith headphones walking confidently along next to the
railing, right, Yeah, wellno one said it was good. It's
pretty pretty, it's pretty backing.Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty bad,

(37:54):
pretty rough. One thing I noticedas I take us into overtime in
production, uh in h. Ikeep wanting to call it cat in a
hot tin roof God bless you.I don't know why it's called air push.
It's killed no monster's ball. Uh. I think it's because of the

(38:19):
Southern accents. And then linked withwe watched Catwoman, but you love Tennessee
Williams. Yes, yeah, hewas doing something with the flags. Lee
Daniels was, and I don't knowexactly, but they're like there were Confederate
flags in the backgrounds of a lotof shots, and then slowly through the
film, the Confederate flags I stoppednoticing them, but I did notice the

(38:40):
proper like union, uh, likethe American flag we know now popping up,
Like there was one part where itwas actually in the foreground, out
of focus and the scene was happening, and they were like, you know,
I think it was when he waspainting, yeah, behind him.
So I'm wondering if I was himcoding a little like, you know,

(39:01):
his his racism is is leaving him. Uh, and so well that makes
sense. That is that is whatthat is the journey of the hero in
this movie. I guess I thinkit's just naive to be like, can
then we put it to an anormal American flag because the racism's gone?
Yeah, but that's but that's howit felt like, I don't like,
Yeah, that was my issue withthis movie, with my story in the

(39:23):
My issue with the story in themovie is that it was like people can
change. Sure, yeah, growingup spending how old is Billy bumptif sixty
in that in that in this film, yeah, oh forty something. Fine,
spending forty something years of your lifenot only just like having having racist

(39:45):
values like ingrained in you, butliving with him on a daily basis.
It was like a switch was flippedand sudden funnled himself because of hatred in
their family. Sure, sure,but it just even even under those circumstances,
it felt too abrupt. It felttoo like night and day. Yeah.
Yeah, he was like a sweetguy being like home, Yeah exactly,

(40:10):
Yeah, I know what you mean. And like we didn't get into
that as much with the story aboutlike how the story of this movie has
aged. Yeah, and I thinkit's not great. I think it's not
bad, but I think it's notgreat. I think it's like part of
that misleading era of quote unquote fixingracism looks like it's well, it's it's

(40:32):
very ThEC like Academy Lord Winner,we solve racism and then they give the
oscar to Crash a few years later, which is the exact same is crash.
Lee Daniels as well, I don'tlike that man, but it's like
now he's nice to his black neighborsand it's like, yeah, they're still
living like super anyway. I alsodon't like, Yeah, it's indicative of

(40:55):
the time and that like now Idon't give a shit about about the story
of a guy who becomes less racist. Yeah you know what I mean,
Like that's not a fucking hero tome. That's just like, great,
you were a piece of shit andnow you're not. Congratulations you don't get
claps. Yeah, and you onlygot there because you fucking because everybody in
your fucking life died. Yeah,like fuck off. Yeah, and like

(41:21):
people are entitled to kind of likekeep hating you for a while maybe totally.
Yeah, and you're lucky that likepeople don't. Yeah, anyways,
yeah, I know what you mean. So that's a tricky, tricky part
of it anyway, So that's um, carry on me who We'll get back
to it enacting, So that's Karen. Do you have the word? He
did not do Crash, but hedid do Phantom of the Opera apparently.

(41:42):
What the Gerard Butler one? Yeah, it's he's a very eclectic mix of
Caard Butler. I can't. Iforgot that he played podcast. That's he's
not good. Did you watch you'veseen it? Have? Oh god,
let's get that versus Dracula two thousand. It'd have to be three hundred,
wouldn't it? All right? Ohno, he says, I've just seen

(42:04):
it so many times. I wantto watch Dracula two thousand is what I
want to do. Is okay?Let's move on to our third official round,
which is acting? Good? Isit? I mean? Halle Berry
won the Oscar for Monsters Ball?Oh yeah she did. There is some

(42:25):
fucking incredible stuff that she's doing inthat movie. Oh yeah, like she
is? She Like I've never reallygiven or like taken time to dive into
her catalog, so I'm not toofamiliar with her. Not good? What's
that it's not very good to behonest. Her catalog of work. Yeah,
yeah, sure that's fair, butlike but like I get it for
this movie, there's no denying howfucking talented she is. I'm not sure

(42:46):
if she just picks bad roles,but like, rarely do I watch a
film where I forget that I'm watchingan actor on screen. And that's what
happened with halle Berry. Like sheshe I think she was phenomenal, which
which I find disappointing about the Razziewith with Catwoman, because I feel like
there are moments where she is stilldoing some really good work and the moments

(43:07):
where she's not. I feel likethat is that is direction over choice for
Catwoman. She's she's very watchable andCatwoman she's she's doing the thing. There's
no of all the cringe moments,I don't think any of them were her
other than when she's doing weird catthings. How do you I agree that
it was a direction thing because ofhow like consistent, Like I think,

(43:29):
I think she was really sold thatthis was going to be like a fun
thing for kids, right, whichis weird because of her common murder and
murder and other things she murders likethree people in this movie. Hmm,
really she murders anybody. She murdersthe Asian dude, the security guard,

(43:51):
she just knocks him out. No, he's straight up dead. His eyes
are open, his head is bleeding. He's fucking dead. I don't know.
Maybe he looks pretty dead, yeasuper dead. I guess she didn't
murder Sharon's done. I guess shejust allowed her to die. Yes,
Okay, that's fair. So maybeone you could kind of argue that the
Asian security guided that as well.Yeah he murdered with the impact, Well,

(44:14):
she pulled him through the painting andsmashed his face off a concrete wall.
Or did his ego lead to hisdownfall death? It's sure, yeah,
there is. I'm getting shut downleft and right on the show.
So when when when Barry won theRazzie, she actually went to the ceremony,
and I think for her, Ithink this is where this this story

(44:35):
is where what I confused, thinkingthat they came out in the same year
because when she went to the ceremony, she brought her oscar with her to
accept the Razzie. Funny and thenjust like called the movie a huge sack
of shit and was like, yeah, I deserve this ward and like and
left like that, Yeah that's cool. Yeah that's hardcore. So so I
think I think she was just tryingto play a movie that she thought was

(44:59):
going to be made, you knowwhat I mean. And she was doing
her thing as an actor, whichis to trust, trust the team and
be like, I'm going to domy best and this is what I think
we're making. And CGI is aweird thing to act with, I'm sure,
So like she was like, cool, I'm going to be this like
snarky, kind of strange cat likeish but my version of it that's super

(45:19):
cat like. The animal work couldbe better, but she was, she
was doing it, She's doing athing. Yeah, it just like didn't
make sense. And the thing Iwould I getting to before was also that
like half of the shots of herare CGI shots. Yeah yeah, so
I don't know how much to likeand half of the other half are the
stunt person Yeah yeah, exactly,just so much. Yeah, but we're

(45:45):
talking about acting when now we're nottalking about stunt work or choreography, like
she was never she was never acting, Like there was never any CGI catwoman
acting in scenes performing dialogue. No, but but they still like we're part
anything, part of the whole,like performance in a weird way. I
know, it's like protection but anyway, like Sharon Stone, who might as
well have been a CG. So, so before the movie started, he

(46:09):
reminded me that Sharon Stone was inbase against it, yes, famously,
which is kind of I guess herlike one big role she had. She
had a career in the late ninetiesand eighties and nineties. But was that
kind of so you said something alongthe lines of she lost custody of her
kids over that movie something technically,yeah, I think so. Was that

(46:30):
because she showed her vagina in thefilm? Yeah, yeah, some some
Christian court ruled, you know,in along the lines of that, it
was what's that word? Can lookit up anyway, it was negligent as
a parent or something. Well,yeah, that you know, like not
the kind of person that could bechested with kids because of you know that
there's certain kindness of words that theyuse. Where she was, you know,

(46:52):
essentially trying to call her a whore? Was in legal terms, was
her current partner? I guess theguy who was fighting for custody of the
kids also a super conservative Christian typeor idea, whether that he was or
they just abused that in order tolike fuck with her. It was.
It was pretty messed up from thishand. So it's one wrong and h's

(47:12):
no, it's according to the Guardian, Um, Sharon, this is Sharon
Stone is the source of the story. But like, yeah, she says
that divorce judge asked her young son, do you know your mother makes sex
movies? And uh, yeah,So she says the judge's prejudice against things

(47:32):
she had done in her career madehim rule against her. Yeah, it's
what she's claiming. M h,Well, the legal system strikes again.
Flawless, flowerless joke. Anyways,So Sharon Stone brutal, brutal, Yeah,

(47:53):
no, they shouldn't be trusted withkids after this, after this film
was whether what she did before,but after this, I agree. But
see, here's my thing. Clearlyshe has a track record of of solid
performances as an actor. Yeah,clearly this movie is about over the top
archetype characters. So I wonder,like she's doing some fucking awful acting in

(48:17):
this film, but I wonder howmuch of that boring that's the big crime
she she takes a character that couldbe like wild, wildly over the top.
Yeah she could. There's room forher to cackle in this room in
this movie if she wants to.But she doesn't even like break a smile
throughout this film. Yeah it's agood point. Yeah, that's fair.
Like her husband, she's always liketrying to be villainous. Yeah, where

(48:39):
is he from? I know becausehe has one of those faces that yeah,
okay, I recognize him from acertain movie as well. I recognize
him sweatily saying something to someone.Mum. Alex Borstein always a delight from
under. She's coming yet again,but more used than she was in Dinner
for Schmucks. Yeah, yeah,for sure, for sure as just a

(49:01):
hot piece of candy. She needs. She needs a leading vehicle, man,
like they need to put her tostar in her own film. She
needs. I know she's in mazelas in supporting though Oh yeah well yeah,
but like she's secondary lead at times. Yeah, she needs a movie
career. I want to see herjust like leading some crazy comedies. Yeah,
Catwoman person as Miss swan is isCatwoman a kid kid? Yes?

(49:30):
So good. I can't believe thatwas your first time seeing from Miss Yeah,
we popped Sean's Miss Swan cherry umand then today Miss Swan tomorrow airplants.
Brett Bratnert Brett, Benjamin Bratt,Benjamin Bratt. Oh, he was.
He was charming, and he wasdoing the thing he does in every

(49:52):
movies from the late nineties and earlytwo thousands is where he's handsome. Yeah,
he's good at it. Yeah,charming, smile, good job,
Benjamin Bratt. Yeah, almost alittle too too grounded. I felt like
for this film, like it waslike boring, right, No, no,
not not boring. I didn't findthat. I thought that it was
it was almost too naturalistic and realfor the for the film he was in.

(50:15):
It was it didn't quite cross theline, but it was definitely like
flirting with it. Sure, Yeah, I like skirting the line. Is
that a word? Yeah? Ilike what he became in that era where
he was like the equivalent of likethe hot piece of ass that a woman
gets at the reward. Yeah yeah, true, Yeah, yeah, what
a what a you know, whata what a feminist place niche work.

(50:35):
You're the the hot piece that thewoman wins, how though she doesn't because
she's such a cat. Yeah,I mean, I'm sure they were leaving
it open for the sequel. Yeah, hates the police, um, monsters
ball. Yeah, Billy Bob alsovery good, very good, very good,
really good. I'm I just wantto it's I'm tired of seeing him

(51:00):
do those kinds of roles. Heis, like the fucking he's a younger
old Clint Eastwood type, or likehe's always just angry or mean or racist
or crass like that is or isor psychotic like I get I get working

(51:20):
your hit. That's fine. Yeah, he's never gonna be James Bond.
No, but like I don't know, I guess I just want to see
like he's good at what he does. Him as James Bond wouldn't be bad.
Actually maybe'd be interesting. Would bebad, he'd be Jimmy Bond,
Jimmy Bond, Jimmy Bond. Um, my name's bound, give me bound,

(51:43):
give me a Bode Wiser shaking.You're done well? No, I
mean yeah, I just you wantsomething different. You would love to,
And I don't know if it's possiblebecause he also just has that like a
movies anymore. I don't know ifit is movies. He was doing Fargo
until recently, oh just one season. This one season. Yeah, he's

(52:05):
very good in this. He's verygood. But again he's a fucking psycho.
Yeah, like he's a killer.That's like. Yeah, so I
just I don't know, maybe Ijust want some kind of levity or something
brighter from him, you know,though I don't know that he'd actually be
very good. And Angelina Jolie roarblood necklaces when they were together. Yeah,
so he is that, like,maybe he's just that kind of person.
Okay, very good in the movie, very good. Heath Ledger was

(52:30):
good. I mean he was upand coming at that point. I've probably
just on a night's tale. Maybeoh yeah, maybe we're just about to
do it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. I like small small apart.
I really like most definite this movie. Yeah, Bill, Bill Thornton's
dad is great. Peter Boyle,Peter Boyle is good. Yeah he is.
He crushes in this. Yeah.He he makes that character feel real

(52:52):
and awful. Yeah. He justsays the words in such a like like
he says them, there's no likefluff. It feels very and then when
he's like, I don't want itto end this way and Boorton, it's
like, well, I think hesaid me neither, Yeah, I mean
neither. Yeah, And you're like, yep, that's fitting in for you.
And you're in bed. Do youmean you don't want your relationship with

(53:13):
your dad that way to and andthat way or you don't want your life
to end the same way? Right? Yeah? And you're like, oh,
I don't know which one you meananyway, by forever ye, He's
like, there's a phone you cancall me whenever you want. Yeah,
yeah, wof um that little kidyeah tough died yeah her son, Yeah,

(53:37):
I know. Yeah. That wastough to watch. And why was
P Diddy in the movie? Though? I don't know, it's pretty good,
it seemed like a bit of astuntcasting. He was pretty good,
but like this, I wish itwas just not Yeah it could have been
so is someone who couldn't pull PDiddy out of prison line up there in
that movie? I was like,oh, he's great. I don't know,

(54:00):
I didn't really like, maybe Ishould listen to more. Well,
I guess voter died dude. Yeah, I guess My issue is more so
like this this stunt casting quality ofit, because there were definitely other like
working talented black actors in that time, and instead they went with a music
producer who like who like, wasn'ttrying to carve out an acting career as

(54:23):
far as I know, Yeah,a job, but I just I don't
know. It felt it could havegone to someone else who's like trying to
make a career. Yeah, likepick up the phone call fifty cent.
I don't think he was doing moviesyet, yeah, exactly, but he
well, no wonder because he wasn't. They were calling p Diddy right,

(54:45):
taking roles away from good hard workingactors and video game creators like like fifty
cent. He didn't make fun videogames. It's true, it's true.
Funding the sand. Yeah, thenhe made Do You Mean to Get Rich?
Who Died Trying? That was hismovie, his first movie. I'm
talking about the video game. Ithink it was also. I think that

(55:05):
was also the name of his videogame. It was I don't know.
Um, are we missing anyone?No, I just hats Oh the cat
lady Cookie cat lady yea with herwith her her pushing ledge. That's my
pushing ledge. Hell, if youlook at this book, cats Possum No

(55:30):
got ten to one of my workshopsabout the female organs. I used to
be a professor in New York City. They wrongfully terminated me when not giving
me tenure. Yeah. The thingin this like the catwoman sub thing about
it being sort of like a feministyeah symbol, Yeah, was undermined by

(55:53):
just showing her tits and ask thewhole do you think maybe Petoff didn't quite
understand a woman's experience those words wereand communicate that into like a visual and
storytelling way. Yeah, it feelshaving women say rum men, huh huh
man Yeah, um, I'd liketo exploit this like no Man's Land.

(56:15):
Of the podcast, we kind ofto bring up the two my two favorite
moments. One is the jail barsthat she sneaks through, where they fully
didn't edit out the bar that's bendingas she's sliding through them. Super great
job, guys, didn't see thatshe actually just did that. It's it's
it's a quarter of a second justbefore they cut to her like slinking out

(56:35):
of the bars and but the barfully like bends around her hips and it's
so funny funny. The other onewas answering the no Kia cell phone and
it's a video calls that she putsto her ear and she also and Sharon
Stone turns to camera. That's whyI wondered if it was like I didn't

(56:57):
I couldn't tell if it was supposedto be a full video call or does
he radown like a weird feature whereit's like your ideo because it's me and
that's what she chose to do forhers I know. Also the part where
her cat powers made her magic andshe like teleports to the next hallway unexplained
cat powers to five physics sometimes yeah, yeah, sometimes bonus points for at

(57:23):
least what two three four cat puns? Yeah yeah, A girl like me
always lands on her feet cat exceptthat the very first time she falls after
getting cat powers, she lands onher face. Yeah. But when she
falls off the like it's like handsto face. Yeah, No, it's
her legs are extended behind her.She is full on she falls. She's

(57:46):
not fully cat cat yet a catgirl cat girl, all right. That's
like's like a little rhyther for thesame ad u. And then we will
come and finish this out as inthe proper format for once. Okay by

(58:12):
a yo. So let's write themovies and decide which one is the citizen
Kane of the Week. So,yeah, I'm gonna suggest this time.
I think it'll be were interesting ifwe start at the tail end and begin
with acting. Oh okay, I'muncomfortable. Yeah good so um So for
for acting, I'm gonna say Monster'sBall. Yeah, I think it has

(58:34):
to be Monster's Ball. I wantedto start here. Yeah, it feels
get it out of the way.It's an easy one, easy one.
The other ones probably was still wellfuck, I don't know, we'll see.
Okay, So then let's just carryon and not make this any longer
than it has to be. Buta production honestly, man, I have
to go with Catwoman the because likebad choices I think are still more forgivable

(59:02):
than actual shoddy work and the amountof focus issues and weird like like rant
like roaming camera stuff that was happeningin Monster's Ball. I couldn't get past
it. I found it's so distracting. Yeah, I thought it was.
It looked amateurish, which was weirdbecause clearly it's it's not a it's a

(59:24):
it's a big budget Hollywood film withsome A list actors. But the camera
stuff was was unforgivable. I thinkI think the thing that I would like,
I have some feelings that it aresimilar to yours, but I would
kind of disagree, Like the amateurishthing doesn't. It wasn't so much of
a factor to me, Like Ididn't always mind how it was being shot,
even though I could sense some ofthose things as well. Somehow it

(59:46):
also gave me whether they meant todo it or not is definitely a conversation
with having. But I don't know. Sometimes I feel like it made it
feel more like this less polished,more home video voyeuristic sort of thing.
But I just don't think it wasa choice. There's a difference between between
a voyeuristic approach, which is definitelyone thing, and and feeling like a

(01:00:08):
home video. Those are two differentthings. Yeah, you know what I
mean. Like, I'm just sayingit just felt somehow more like down to
earth and less like I kind ofdidn't mind that it didn't have a sheet
on it. That being said,it's not the point I want to make
it. The point I want tomake is that it was not the production
of this movie that like made thismovie monster judging, And I think that's

(01:00:28):
all the more evident by how we'relike even I think Sean too are being
like, yeah, there was somegird stuff in it, but I kind
of dug it because it wasn't reallywhat I was watching it for. Whereas
like, take it or leave it, how you feel about the like CGI
and the ship that's happening in Catwoman, it is a sight to behold.
Sure there is a lot of production, yea, her jumping around all animated,

(01:00:49):
and the weird transitions and the stuff. There's just more there. Yeah,
and not just like in a quantitativeway, but like it's I'm I
think I'm in a Catwoman. Ithink I'm saying I'm I'm the other way
around. I just because like asmuch as what you got distracted you in
Monsters Monsters Balls, editing, theediting of Catwoman is made me physically ill

(01:01:15):
at times. And the fighting andfighting is awful, it's glaring. It's
the problems are glaring. And onething I didn't bring up about Monsters Ball
I might have briefly touched on itwas the sense of heat and that movie
was just dripping and sweaty. Thinksin my apartment, I actually know what

(01:01:37):
this is gonna. I'm totally gonnaflip out right now, and I'm specifically
remembering the fight in Catwoman in thealleyway Henchman, and now that was just
the worst. That was just theworst. Is that the one where she
runs through the yellow room and thelights are all yellow. No, it's
the one where she goes to theshe follows him into the club and then

(01:01:58):
there's a whip and all of that'sawful, and then she tackles him and
apparently right behind him the door tothe alley, followed by the worst fight
I think I've ever seen the filmtruly, I don't. Yeah, it
was bad. It was bad justfor yeah, but fuck you me,
okay woman, Dad, No,dude, you looked right, Abuetes,

(01:02:19):
it's a fuck you. No,it was you. Yeah, I mean,
yes, there's no that I agreewith you. But I think that
a couple of isolated fight scenes aren'tthe same as as a a consistent flaw,
consistent editing, the editing through thewhole. There were there were chunks

(01:02:40):
that were bad, like the fightscenes, like there were chunks where the
editing was rough, but the theshoddy camera work was the entire film start
to finish. I would say,at least at least once or twice per
scene. It happened, and itwasn't like, oh, there's a there's
a momentary moment, there's a momentarymoment shut up where focus is momentarily out

(01:03:06):
while the while the guy finds it. It's like we're watching an entire chunk
of the scene out of focus.That that to me is like it shouldn't
happen in a in a movie.I'll take it clearly. Monster's Ball,
Oh yeah, Munster's Ball. Okay, all right, uh story catwoman Boh,

(01:03:29):
I've already I've already said all thethings that I don't like with the
story of Monster's Ball, like likefuck, fuck that story. But there's
others do it Like but script better, Script is better. Script is way
better. Yeah, the dialogue isbetter. This direction is better. That's

(01:03:51):
different than production. Yeah, notsame, not same same story. Direction.
Direction is about the telling the story, I guess, not as you
think of it as like the actualstory and like what's in the script.
Um, yeah, I just aI thought that it It did kind of

(01:04:13):
meander a past, like the halfwaypoint. But also, this story in
general is not one that I fuckingcare about at all. It's not to
me it's not a story worth telling. Honestly, what what isn't worth telling
about that story the whole? Like, I don't give a shit about about
an antagonist whose entire journey is becomingless fucking racist. That's not a sure.

(01:04:35):
I mean they made that argument whenThree Billboards came out, too,
there was a lot of like,why are we watching this movie? I
forget a lot of that movie.I remember enjoying it. I remember being
quite layered. This one doesn't havea lot of the there's there's there are
layers to the story, I guess, but but it is one central there
like there is there are no sideplots. There is one story to this

(01:04:56):
movie, and it is it's bothof their story kind of. But Billy
Bob Thornton is the hero of thefilm, right, But yeah, it's
definitely more his story, it's more, but it is it is two people
trying to heal. Yeah, yeah, yes, I liked this movie.

(01:05:17):
I liked watching it. I wouldn'ttotally throw the content of it. I'd
be like, there's something here,there is something about the storytelling of it
that is a bit. There's somethingabout it, there's something trophy about it.
The fact that it starts with thislike almost like save the cat moment,
and then as you say, itjust kind of turns. I didn't

(01:05:39):
understand why he quit his job.I mean, I guess it was because
its son, but like, yeah, I know, I know it's because
of that, but but like itwasn't in that. That wasn't in the
movie, and I don't know.So that's that's that's what it was like
if the if the movie is abouthim, like, I feel like we

(01:05:59):
missed the part of the movie wherewe actually see him like struggle to deal
with the loss of his son.Aside from just making these like life changes.
He didn't seem bothered by the factthat he was like having sex with
a black woman. No, whichI thought was gonna be kind of a
point of it that well, becausebecause it's not his racism is the learned

(01:06:20):
racism. It learned racism. Itis not the act of racism. It's
the reflexive racism because you've been raisedby a hateful bigot. It is just
what you do because it makes himhappy, and it's him realizing that him
inflicting that upon his own son.And that's all when he's on sitting on
the like fairy day after day afterday like going. I guess he's because

(01:06:44):
he's on that ferry multiple days,I think, or something, or like
for hours he's just going back andforth or something. He guys is the
idea that after like following the trainsof as you put it, like slave
labor force, he decides that hedoesn't want to be a part of that
system. So he's mean the job. There's a reason why the director made
him sit in a car while he'swatching them go back and forth. It

(01:07:05):
marching to to do menial labor forfree. Um, Like it's it's not
he's not. We don't see himgo hmmm, I'd better not be a
racist anymore. But we do seehim like make choices. Yeah, and
we just I guess what I'm sayingis we didn't see like that what seemed
to be, uh, I don'tneed to see that beard stroking moment.

(01:07:27):
But it didn't seem I didn't seethe conflict within him moment. I didn't
see them like there was just themoment where he almost drives away in the
car Like that was it. Yeah, And it was pretty understated. Um,
and then I agree with you,and it feels like this kind of
light switch, the momentum that somehowthere's never a point where when he's with
Howe Berry that like something slips upin him or you know, it didn't

(01:07:56):
feel it did something about it doesn'tfeel quite right and doesn't and as a
result doesn't feel real. Yeah,it is easy. It's easy. Yeah,
And like sometimes maybe that happens inlife, A big thing happens and
you just like you it does forthe light switch, and you just go
epiphany is yeah, and you go, I just can't. I just can't
ever do that again because I knowit only brings pain. So I'm just

(01:08:19):
gonna matter choice I make, itwon't be that. And he is upset
that he was such a shit fatherthat like he still hated his son,
like he hated him. He didn'tgive a shit that he died. But
he's upset that he was a badfather and that'll allowed him to kill himself.
You know, well, as yousay, like he's learning to feel

(01:08:41):
love for the first time. Yeah, this whole conversation feels a bit like
a point two Monsters ball. Thefact that there is like something worth dissecting,
whereas Catwoman just stole the first Batmanmovie and not, well it's a
romp. Catwoman's a romp. I'llwatch Catwoman again for sure. Yeah,
for sure, I honestly like,I have no problem saying that I had.

(01:09:04):
I had a way better time watchingCatwoman than Monster's Ball. Monster's Ball,
Like, as as a film,it is a it is a better
made film, No, there's noquestion. But if we're talking about which
one was a better movie and whatwas it was a more positive experience,
I had a way better time thanas a film. But as a movie,

(01:09:28):
they're different, they're different things.I know. I don't know what
you mean is what about as apiece of cinema? Yeah, what cinema?
Monster's Ball? What about like asa moving picture? Moving picture?
Probably a Catwoman, I mean forsure, Yeah, Unster's Ball, You're
a Catwoman, I'm Catwoman, Kingmaker Jack fuck uh no, it's gotta

(01:09:51):
be Monster's Ball. Yeah, LikeI think it has flaws and I think
it's not it's it's pot neerfect,but um it's I don't know. I
still think it's doing something much morenuanced and interesting and holds up in a
really interesting way. Like this feelsdifferent to movies in a way that I

(01:10:13):
really like that script doesn't get madetoday though you were like that's what I'm
saying earlier. Yeah, yeah,so it'll and why didn't it get made
today? No? But not whatthe content is, but how it's done.
I think. I think the contentis also a huge fucking part of
it. Like what do you mean, not the context, but how it's

(01:10:33):
done? What is it? Whatis problematic about how it's done versus what
the content of the movie is.Nothing's problematic and how it's done. I
say, this is like, Yeah, the thing that I agree there's problematic
stuff in there is the context ofthis movie and what the story is and
how racism is treated is you know, a bit dated compared to how we
think and talk about racism now.But like not in a way that's like

(01:10:59):
super offensive, to be honest,it's just a bit like naive, I
think, is how I would howI feel about it now. It feels
like a naive view of racism,which I guess isn't that's still pretty bad.
It's it's like a handhold the explorationof racist Yeah, but in terms
of but I'm talking more, butwhere like a racist asshole is like kind
of let off the hook in acertain way, like what like is society

(01:11:21):
cann all band together in Georgia.It's like he gets to have sex with
halle Berry. It's actually the partthat feels a bit yeah, but there
there is that there, there isthere is the part of it we're like,
by the end of it, you'resupposed to kind of be on side
with this guy who's like a shipperson. It hasn't done much besides fucking
quit, buy fucking gas station andsave a kid from the side of the

(01:11:42):
road. Like he doesn't he like, he doesn't earn the spot of being
the hero of the story. He'sbut he is changing. He's he's he's
bringing work to his neighbor who untilthen he was chasing his kids off with
a shotgun, and now he's bringingwork to his neighbor, trying to trying
to help him. In that way, he is pushing out the bigots in
his life. He's making he's makingactive choices. And I don't think at

(01:12:04):
the end we're supposed to be likeyay Billy Bob Thornton. I think we're
supposed to be like, Okay,he's the first changing Yeah, yeah,
yeah, exactly. It's the beginningof something. Look, the point is,
I'm saying monsters fucking ball. Sothe Citizen Kane of the week is
drum roll insert but ro, drumroll, drum roll, trauma roll,

(01:12:30):
drum roll, trauma roll, umfucking monsters ball. That's the sound of
the scene. Yeah, okay,so let's really quick, um, Citizen

(01:12:53):
Kane. Let's let's versus the Loserand talk with the cook about Catwoman.
What does this movie need to bebetter? Oh? God, not Sharon
Stone. Not Sharon Stone on originalmovie like premise for the bad part of
it. I actually don't. Idon't even mind that. I would say
I would. I would leave mostparts of this movie. I would change

(01:13:14):
the soundtrack, h and I woulddefinitely change Sharon Stone too. So I
guess you need to recast Sharon Stoneto be like more like maniacal Timia Timide
Chalome. Maybe a little too young, definitely the right amount of woman,
but too young. Um Alex Borstein, oh you know what, like not

(01:13:38):
bad? Right? That would befucking wicked to have her play a villain
roll in the Oh hell yeah,oh my god. If it was Alex
Borstein and you like adore her untilthe turn happen. Yeah, I mean,
yeah, that's not bad. Andso we take Sharon Stone's character and
Alex Borstein is but is the sheplays and also plot twist Jesus villain.

(01:14:02):
Yeah, however, you managed tofit that into the story. But she
can even be the co owner ofthe beauty line company. She can be
a lab tech who find it isactually way more secretly at the top than
you realize. M hmmm, Ilike that. Something who knows you know
and turns out she's actually Harley Quinn. Yeah no, nothing like that.

(01:14:24):
A different director, way different thanjust maybe Brett Ratner. Maybe what did
he do? It? Didn't doit bad? He did a lot of
bad. Oh, never mind.He directed The X Men's Oh no,
no, it was not him,No, it was Zack Snyder. It's
fucking who did Probably maybe I thinkit was that Snyder. No American film

(01:14:49):
director. Yeah, no, heThe X Men X Men Last Stand is
the one he did. But that'sthe one. Yeah, he did.
He did some touching. He somebad, bad touch stuff. I'm pretty
sure. I don't know. Umno, But it's like any different director
probably would be good. Maybe,but the directors would have made the movie

(01:15:11):
so fun. I would get adifferent editor, I guess, and just
reign the director in a little bitin terms of like helping with the edit.
The whole new stunt to the stuntteam wasn't the problem. It was
no, it was yeah, yeah, it was an actual stunt team would
be great people who know what they'redoing and like and like to the point
where like as we I noted duringI was like, there are a lot

(01:15:32):
of shots in the fights that Iwas like, you could have just done
that, Like you could have ifyou were even slightly creative as a director,
you could have gotten that shot orsomething like it in a fun way.
But instead U CG. I hadheard jumping and turning to face us
off of a guy. She likeslid on a guy and then jumped off
him and turning in the I waslike, you can get that shot.

(01:15:54):
That's not impossible. Yeah, Imean, who knows what People can jump
and turn it's actually like a wholething. But can Hallie Berry do it?
That doesn't actually matter, Like that'strue, that's dead people for that
they're wearing a mask. Also true, So um, make the fights decent.
That's an easy one. No basketballfight, No basketball and no fucking

(01:16:15):
claps for the hero bullshit, takethat out. No, the office does
not clap when she quits, orif if we're keeping the basketball scene,
it has to be there has tobe a tag at the end where the
teacher comes back and it's like,who are you? Who let you into
my classroom? And he's actually justkind of like broken into a nearby school
to talk about how good you canon top of him. Pretty funny,

(01:16:36):
I was gonna say. Also,as we keep the clapping at the end
of the office scene, the bossneeds to come back like you point it
out and been like I can hearall of you. You're all fired.
Oh if if it could be funny, yeah, yeah, humor, if
so, it would be nice.So like make this funny, like commit
to it being a good cartoon.If you're gonna have your protagonists go because

(01:16:56):
I don't want it to be funny. I want to see a quirky cat
movie. We'll see. This isthe thing I kind of thought at the
top of the film that they werealmost leaning into, like like a a
soft parody of the superhero genre withall that fucking ancient egypt clip stuff whiches,
which is like wishes. It seemedtoo absurd to be to be in

(01:17:18):
earnest, you know what I mean. So yeah, if they had leaned
into that more to make it justlike an over the top live action cartoon,
Hey you fucking called it though.When the cat locked it ever like
who you are, believe in yourselfor you said, you said you remember
you remember who you are, andthen straight up the cat goes you have

(01:17:39):
to remember who you are, AndI was like, fuck, that is
the same thing, man, Thatis the cat. You are the catwoman,
remember who you are? Also,just scratch me stop. Um.
Yeah, it could be, itcould be way more quirky out and but

(01:18:00):
it has to be actually funny.You can't just make it like quirky and
stupid, which is possible. Imean we've seen that, like superhero movies
can definitely have a humor commedic throughline yep, yeah, not community through
line, but coming throughout this moviereally bad. But there were like multiple
pivotal scenes that were just about her, like jumping the fence to the Ladies

(01:18:20):
mansion. But you know what,man, it is terrible. It is
actually it's rarer than I thought itwould be. That we get we get
a movie on here that's so bad. It is so good. Yeah,
Like I I had a fucking blastwatching that movie, like puny just fucking

(01:18:40):
right, not like yeah a littlebit, but like but like it.
It does cross over into that territoryevery now and right, like well,
good, well I just do thoseseventeen things and we fixed it. It's
a pretty good movie. There's aversion of halle Berry doing Catwoman in a
cheesy way that's fun. Uh.And that would have been a good thing

(01:19:02):
for her career around then, becauseshe was getting a lot of shit for
like asking for a bigger role forStorm in the X Men franchise, and
then like in typical like Hollywood tabloidfashion, everyone was like, how dear
she ask for more in the movie. She's first in X Men come out
before Catwoman. Oh yeah it didright, yeah, yeah, five years

(01:19:23):
before she already had a superhero vehiclekind of And they were like, but
James Marsden, Uh, you wantto get in the way of of superstar
Famica Jansen. No, I don't. Yeah, who does she play X
Man? She's Jean Gray? Isshe Jean Gray? Yea, we got
we got another fan pay over herefan fan fan. Yeah right, what

(01:19:50):
movies are we doing next? Oh? Next movies? Uh, we are
gonna get into some um seminal workof ja Appanese cinema with a kirak um
Kira Kui craw No. I justI HANDTD his full name Kirosawa Akira Kirosawa

(01:20:15):
because because the old name was Akiraka I think, so, John,
We're gonna sound like fuck morons ifit's not really prepared. But Kirosawa's Seven
Samurai Versus Ninja Assassin a movie Isaw in theaters? Is it a kira?
Okay? Fucking good? I waslike pretty sure, But when I
was saying it, I was like, really, Akira Kira Sawaki ki Kisawa.

(01:20:42):
I have a cousin whose name isDavid Davidson. Yeah sure, so
he's oh god really yeah what ChrisChristofferson different you got? Yeah, it's
a different It's it changes the word, but it's the same idea as a
Kirakira. It's like John Johnson,Yeah bad, I know? Do is
it bad? Yeah? Bad?I know it's bad. Okay. Podcast

(01:21:06):
over Japanese Ninja's versus samurais next week, I guess or whatever? Um Any
last thoughts Bye. Do we goout on? Cats Man? Remember who
you are? Twitches