Creed III (2023) vs Rocky III (1982)

The third film in the Creed era takes on the third film in the overall Rocky saga! Matty & PLD put them up against each other in a 12 round...well I guess it's a 5 round battle...
#creed #rocky #creed3 #rocky3 #michaelbjordan #jonathanmajors #sylvesterstallone #mrt

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The following is brought to you bythe p l D Projects Network. It's
me, It's me, It's pl D. What's up, everybody?

(00:52):
Welcome to a early edition of ClassAction. It almost looks like all these
snokes because we are jarvy less,because he's too busy aboarding gallery, running
up the mountains. He's running upthe snowy mountains of the house right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere upin the rocky mountains job he's on
top of a mountain screaming good.It might be, it might be,

(01:21):
but I am here with the gunner, the gunner, the champ is here.
Indeed, my friend, how areyou? I'm doink good man?
How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. It's very interesting,
A little light, little letter,a little earlier than we usually do.
But that's a nice feeling. Iguess I get this underway. I
can't I can't wait. I'm excitedto talk about uh. Two really fun
adventures from movies, and one ofwhich we just came out, of course

(01:44):
with Creed three. Let's start here, Crade three, what was your thoughts?
Manti? I fucking loved it.Loved it, absolutely loved it,
obviously, and we'll get into it. That was a bit of a the
giant hole that was missing, butoverall was a movie. It was like
not only the swings that Michael B. Jordan took as a director, which,

(02:07):
by the way, that man needsto direct more, because if this
was his directorial debut, well welldone, my man. That was absolutely
chef kiss. But it encapsulated afighter who is at the end of the
road and is battling between the twoof I want to keep going, but

(02:31):
I can't anymore, and weighing upthose options of at what cost is it
going to take for me to getback in the ring? Hello, this
is my life right now. Yeah, you're not wrong, You're not wrong.
Here to go, PJ. Campbella horseman shot. One of these

(02:51):
is good. The other is Rockythree a little strong, but you know,
I think three is still good.Best show because Jarvy isn't here.
It's not a whole Rocky's life.Move on. Did you guys not watch
Creed two? Yes? I did. I did watch Creede two. I
still think it's a Rocky size holebecause god damn it, PJ. When

(03:12):
Creed's mom dies Rocky doesn't come tothe funeral a lot of time moving on.
That's being a dick unless he's behindthe scenes Storry, and I gotta
say also that Rocky would have beenthere in the final fight as well.
I feel like watching Duke give thepep talk didn't hit that. It didn't
hit the same, did not hitthe same, Mattic Kerns. I have
to be honest, I didn't enjoyCreed three. Interesting, Mathie, that's

(03:37):
a very interesting talk. I definitelyinterested in hearing your opinions on why I
didn't enjoy it. And of coursewe got Kelly w It's too early to
have these two on my screen.It's too early to have anybody on your
screen. To be honest, you, it's always a bad time to have
us on your screen. But hey, you're here, so I appreciate you.
And finally, Matt you know,it was good to see the chat
my friend he loves Rocky three.All right. There, I go to

(03:59):
a diversely in thet here between thispeople. Some people are gonna get with
this one. I will say inmy opinions on creat three, I actually
absolutely loved Create three. I justI did agree there was that rocky size
hole in it. That kind ofthrew me off. It doesn't change the
fact that it was a beautiful movie, uh, because it wasn't really you

(04:20):
know, a fault to Michael B. Jordan. It was that slide and
the producers fell out and everything else. Michael be Jordan's a hell of a
director. I agree with you onthat point that this is his debut.
I can't wait to see what hedoes next. He's got he's got a
great eye for things. He's gota great instinct for things. Mostly,
though I thought the story was itwas, it felt real to me.

(04:43):
It felt like a real stepping forward. He didn't feel cartoonish at all,
like this is the real places tobe. It's funny and thinking about here's
Creed three. He's already retired,and it's like, wow, it's so
quick. But it's a that's thelife of a fighter too. It is
kind of a quick shelf life.You're telling me, there you go,
see what we gotta. Of course, PJ is saying, both have your

(05:06):
feelings. That's wrong, but that'sfine. Yeah, you know, Uh,
Mattie Kerrn is a lack of rockies. You mentioned where he was at
the funeral, and I didn't enjoyDamion as a twist villain interests. Wow,
you might be the only person Iknow man. I didn't like Demions
as a antagonist with Jonathan Majors.I thought almost all show for me.
Uh, there you go. Let'screate a three suprevacy Kelly w I felt

(05:29):
the Rocky size hole. See,I get it. My husband disagrees with
the movie didn't need him. Idon't know if it needed him, but
it could have done with him.Yeah, and that's why I said to
you like, I said like again. At the end of the day,
I gave this a four and ahalf starts. I loved it. I
really did. I just really feltlike, Hey, he was missing it.
So let the head of the shattersfrom these on top of the snow,

(05:53):
the top his lungs. Uh fromthe app's good to see you.
Uh see. Franchisees able to movebeyond rock has to be able to move
beyond Rocky. As we've proved youcould do just that. We don't need
the character since and you can sitthere in your wrongness and it's okay,
And Jeffer, we're live this timebecause you're not here holding us back.

(06:13):
That's why you know what I mean? Where we want to go earlier we
couldn't. We're just waiting to getgoing, you know. We know,
all right, let's go at beforeyou start telling everybody that is what we're
doing. We have a couple ofthings we do here at Class Action.
Obviously, we have five uh battles. We're gonna put five categories. You
put them up against each other tosee which one's gonna be victorious. I
guess six. If it's one ofyour favorites that we're putting up against.

(06:33):
True, that's very true. Iwant to die. I guess I should
say it actually a five round fightinstead of twelve round fight. In this
case at MMA, this would bea championship fight, that's true, a
championship fight between Rocky three and Creedthree, the three the third films in
your respective trilogies, although of courseCreating Rocky are the same franchise. But

(06:54):
it still made sense to see wherewe are at the time, given the
even be an exhibition if it wasboxing exhibitions are usually six. Well,
we're special here. It was supposedto be submission rob movie Rock four,
not that we're upifits here at thispoint, although interesting you love a Rocky
four versus Rocky four like the director'scut would be an interesting conversation. Oh

(07:16):
god, we'd have to have forthat one. PJ might have an aneurysm.
That's actually sure, I would.I might too. Actually, I'm
not a big fan of the drugO. There the the cut, the
director's cut version. But we cameup with five rounds, five categories.
You got better protagonists, obviously Rockyversus Creed. Literally better antagonist. Uh,
obviously got mister t is clever landingJonathan Majors as dmion. Better fights,

(07:40):
which is something I'm gonna lead heavilyon you because you know this better
than anybody, hopefully if you haveyour first time here. Maddie did a
good breakdown of the Creed ors IsConlin fight from from the original Creed,
and it's on this channel, inthis playlist, in the other one I
believe for Creed two. Yes,the one between Creed and Rob always currently

(08:00):
in the edit. In phase therewas a couple of times where I said
something and I was like, wait, no, I was wrong with that,
let me take that out. Butwell, I get punched in the
head a few times it happens,it happened. We've watched Rocky and Cream.
You see what happened. Obviously,Uh finally got better score and finally
better story, better overall story.With that in mind, the first thing

(08:26):
we do we uh, once aton of time, we used to play
the Ed Harris game. Now wehave kind of graduated to expand beyond that.
He's still involved, but we playinstead. What would the wheel decide?
The actor we're gonna talk about.It's been a wheel, eight actors
on the wheel, and we're gonnaput an actor in each movie. So

(08:48):
if we're gonna spin first for Rockythree, put that actor in Rocky three
either is a recast or is anew role we're gonna write in. And
then we're gonna do it again forCreed three. So there is our wheel
we should going right away. Iwant to just click and good for Rocky
three. I didn't do I didnot do this, but I would not

(09:15):
bring will go ahead. Just doit, just say it. We don't
know what you're thinking. Just youdo huh, just just do it?
Do it? You know what,No, you don't know what I'm gonna
do because I'm not gonna do whatyou think I'm gonna do. I don't
want to replace I don't want toplace Mickey with that, Harris. Come
on, come on, Harry,I like Mickey is Mickey. Ed Harris
is actually younger at this point too. Let me go back to the old,
younger Rocky. So what I dothere, Ed Harris, He's going

(09:41):
to be a younger Irish boxer.We have young Italian selling. We're gonna
have the Irish boxer that has tofight in round one. We're gonna replace
maybe he replace us the Spider ofthe Rocky one, that could be the
Irish Spider Rica. Yeah, tocome back and try to it is due.
Maybe he's one of the people ofthat Spider Ricky. He's one of

(10:03):
the people that Mickey puts up againstRocky as our paper champion kind of thing
until that winning laying. You knowwhat I'm being, I'm giving it Harris
like a shot. I'm saying that'she's He's not gonna look at too ma
anything in this role. That's toughfor me to do. So so go
with that. Yeah, I'm notreplacing Spider Rico and Rocky three. I'm
saying he's like a Spider reco.God damn PJ. Such a All right,

(10:28):
go Madning, what are you gonnado? What are you gonna do?
I'm gonna put Ed Harris because Iimmediately deferred to Mickey. Then you
said you can't place Micky. Iwas like, yeah, you kind of
right. I would have him aslike a Skip Bayless, kind of like
talking head pundit, and he's justthere on like a talk show. That's
like, as soon as Club hadbeats him for the first time, he's

(10:48):
like, I told you he waswashed up. I told you he was
a bum, Like he's the he'sbecause that's face the skip Baless doesn't know
thing he's talking about when he comeswhen he comes to talking fighting. So
Ed Harris I think have been likethe one who's like yelling at the camera
and like super intense with his opinioneven though it's completely wrong. I think
Ed Harrison could fit that role,that kind of shit weasel, intense yelling

(11:11):
ship weasel that skip List has become. You know, Ed Harris could definitely
talk loud and be absolutely wrong anddo it better than anybody else could.
So I'm with you on that.So there we go. I model myself
a dread Harris because I speak veryloud and often very wrong. A lot
of that's what PJ says. Anyway, let's move on then to Creed three.

(11:33):
Let's spin the wheel again, andI promise I can't be at Harris.
Wege to be at Harris twice.Now we're gonna Ingred three. I'll
let you go first this time,because that went first lest time show Yo

(11:54):
and Creed three. I would thinkI think it would be kind of cool
if she was like like Adonis's mom'sbest friend, that like he could he
could go that like knew everything thathim and Damien were up to, the
like the cool neighbor that like knewthat he was getting into some ship,

(12:16):
but like he could go to justso he would have like someone there and
at the funeral and at her deathbed. And I feel like Michelle Yo is
she can be very she can feelthat like compassionate, caring, like motherly
role. I think that would belike a great thing for her. I

(12:37):
got it, I got him.I'm sorry not to jump. I just
came to me and I think Ithink you're gonna like this. I'm replacing
the character of Duke Michelle Yo.Michelle I was gonna train is going to
train Adonnas because the Donna of Damien. It takes a new type of fighter,

(13:01):
something that Donna's hasn't been before,learn new kind of things that Michelle's
are teaching, like martial arts kindof thing that he could bring to the
ring to be a different kind offighter, throw dam and off. I
kind of like a rocket became aSouth like a right handers at a South
box. But yeah, he switchesup his entire style as Michelle Yo Eastern
philosophy kind of thing, and MichelleYo kicks all sorts of ass and trains

(13:22):
of Donna's creed, and that martialarts style could go with like the anime
way that Michael B. Jordan wasshooting the fight. Yeah, I like
that. I like that. Andinstead of Canellos fucking no charisma having ass
in the movie, you could havehad someone like Katy Taylor make a make
an appearance. He was very veryoutspoken young lady. But I do like

(13:43):
that. I did. I didthink that was a cool little cameo they
had. But beside the point thatis a great role. I didn't even
think about her as a trainer.Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of
fun Kelly that this is the highestpraise Kelly's ever given to me. I'd
gradually respect Field d he absolutely.I got to say, of course,

(14:07):
Alan Smithy in the chat early showtoday, Rocky five thousand is my favorite
in the franchise. Town that onTwitter, and you know I did hear
you know, Pizza the Hot talkabout it briefly in Spaceball, but I
have not got a chance to seethat the Rocky five thousand. I can't
wait. If you're liking it thebest, and it's gotta be good,
it gotta be good. I likeit almost as much as I like Expendable

(14:28):
twenty seven. That good, that'samazing. Alright, alrighty, let's move
on. Then let's get into thetrial here. The trial should we should
have five different rounds here again,we're to start off with the better protagonists.
Now before I s good any further, before you go, I want
to clarify, better protagonist has notmean just Rocky versus Creed overall. It's

(14:54):
in these specific movies Rocky in Rockythree and Donna Creed in Creed three,
because it's I think my answers mightbe different if we're talking franchise. If
we're talking franchise, it might bedifferent. I want to start out if
you don't mind, though this onein this particular category, I'm gonna give

(15:15):
it to Creed because to me,they both are in similar spots to a
degree, they're both like I mean, Creed retired, Rocky hasn't retired yet.
But they're both definitively different from theunderdogs that they started as. However,
what of I mean, let's saynegative points about Rocky three, and

(15:37):
I'm one who I'll say it.I'll say it quite frankly, Rocky three
is my least favorite of the franchiseRocket is and one of the main reasons
he doesn't know. We don't knowwhat Rocky they it doesn't know what Rocky
really is. I feel like thefirst film established in one way he couldn't

(15:58):
even do like acting. He couldn'tdo any advertising or anything because he couldn't
do it. He couldn't read thecards, he couldn't do anything. He
was just really street smart but lowerintelligent kind of guy. And that was
okay. That's actually what made himkind of charismatic to a degree the beginning
of the film. Now that he'sbeen champion for bid he feels like he's
he's smarter, he's more interesting,and he's it's like he got a i

(16:22):
q A raise in a way becauseSosso didn't want to play him the same
way anymore. I don't know whatit was. It just doesn't feel like
he knew what he wanted to dowith the character. He was already smart
and his story about an underdog andyou have to beat down the guy back
to back to square one. Creeddoes that much much better because Creed never
gets beat down. Creazis, Creedeseems like a logical place where he is,

(16:45):
and when Damien comes out of thewoodworks to bring him back to kind
of suck him back in, hesucks him back in with a personal twist,
whereas Clever Lang is just as kindof like badass guy. I mean,
he does I understand the idea thathe gets Mickey, but but he
doesn't the whole Mickey angle in themiddle, where the passing of Mickey because
of the instigations of clubbers. Shallwe say it's it's he's already in the

(17:11):
fight. He's already fighting him.So it's like it's just kind of like
this weird angle. Creed seemed muchmore natural as their film for me,
So that's what I'm gonna go with. Yeah, I hmm. It's just
tough because they are in the sameposition of like they're there on top of

(17:32):
the world. But also Adonis iskind of he's at the twilight of his
career. He knows, he knowsthat his time is coming Rockies kind of
still completely woyfully oblivion to it.He doesn't know that he's having handpicked opponents.
He doesn't know that Mickey setting himup to make him look good,
right, And there's the whole thingof you see so many fighters become champion

(18:00):
and start buying all the cars andthe houses and everything, and they do
lose that hunger, they do losethe either Attiger, he is essentially latter
era Mike Tyson in this movie inRocky three. But I think you're right.
It's something about Adonis knowing that he'sat the end of his career and

(18:21):
he's like not even he knows atthe point where he's like, Okay,
I gotta walk away now, likeI've got a family. That adds so
much more to it that he's doingthis for his wife, He's doing this
for his door, which, bythe way, them doing the sign language
throughout the movie when he's when he'sspeaking to his door. I thought that
was incredible. I thought that wasreally well done. It's hard to go

(18:45):
against Rocky being Rocky and coming backand beating someone that everyone, literally everyone
is saying you can't beat him.Your coach is saying you can't beat it,
your wife is saying you can't beathim. But I feel like there
is more to There's more nuances anddifferent things at stake for the character of

(19:08):
Adonis in this movie than there isfor rock Rocky is just like I got
beat I lost my belts, I'mgonna go get them backs. Is like
this is his entire life. It'syeah, the personal stakes, that's exactly
it, like his childhood coming backlike Damien. One thing I would have

(19:30):
loved for them to have done isif Damien had come one scene and just
said, you know, if youdon't get me this title fight, I'm
gonna tell them what happened on thatnight. I'm gonna go whatever show and
I'm gonna tell them what happened thatnight that you ran away. Right.
Yeah, that's a good point,man, Like I said, and we
agree, it looks like the buckstops here saw coming about Demon being a
villain as a twist. It's nevera twist. He was never a villain.

(19:52):
He's very obviously an antagonist, butnot actually villainous. Okay, three
rules. It is arguably the bestantagonists in the series, both the major
performance and his characters writing fact possiblypossibly quite possibly, and also he goes
on she's one of the best thingsabout Damien is how his ark in the
film is completely organic, no twist, no Villa's intentions, just misguided anger

(20:15):
that built until it breaks. It'sso good. Yeah, it is definitely
misguided anger, and definitely has amoment where it is very organic. Obviously,
his Creed's mom tries to inform himthat because she sees what he's doing
and he's obviously planning it from theget go. It's not like it's not
like he goes to Creed with agood heart in his hand. He goes

(20:36):
to Creed knowing he's going to cryto screw him over a little bit.
Obviously, it's the kind of wayit is. I think that might be.
I think that might be what thetwist that Matter's trying to talk about
is that he comes home good andthen alsodd, he's the twist being also
he showed to see the picture andhe his friend or whatever his former cell
made or whatever, knocked Drago outin order to get him the real I
just don't think it's a twist perse. It is more of like a

(21:00):
uh he was always that way,and it just it was confirmation to a
degree more than anything else, becausewe knew it was coming. We knew
we could see from the trailer alonethis is what's gonna happen. But but
yeah, yeah, absolutely, allright, Well let's move on then to
the next category here. That's actuallyand I said, because we're gonna get
into better antagonists. We've got JonathanMajor's as as as Damien. We got

(21:22):
mister T as clever Lang. Nowhere's the interesting part for me. I
mean, it seems like this isan easy one because everything you know,
Jeff is saying, we're saying,I do want to shout out mister T
is clever Lang because he definitely lendshe actually lends the ground lays the groundwork
for for Damien. Yeah, thankyou, you're gonna say that, it

(21:45):
really does. I mean, there'sdefinitely I mean It's kind of funny how
the production of Crea they happened.At one point Jonathan Major is going to
be Clever Lang's son. That's whatthey're gonna go with because we're had Drago's
Alum, we had Clever lang Son. That's almost two cartoonis. I'm glad
they didn't go that way, Butreality, he kind of is Clever lang
Son. It's a it's a personfrom from who's had a troubled upbringing.

(22:06):
He's he hasn't had the same opportunitiesas like some people have, and yet
he's mean. He's a bashard,he's a machine he is. He's terrifying.
He's terrifying in the ring. That'swhat he does to his opponents.
He terrifies them and beats them,beats them senseless. The only difference is
CLUBB didn't exactly do anything illegal toget the fight. He didn't have to

(22:29):
beat up Roger. He just keptcalling out Rocky until until Rocky he couldn't
do anything else and except for acceptthe fight. But they're very similar characters.
I do have to give it toJonathan Major's character, though, because
overall, if we're looking at bettervillain in a franchise. Rocky three is

(22:49):
a cartoonish eighties movie, and that'snot a slight to it. It's still
fun, it's still a fun thing. But when it comes from you put
that up against what cre three isdoing, it's just impossible to say that
Jonathan Majors isn't a better version ofClever Lang. You're adding the personal sticks
to it, You're adding the deepstoryline, you're adding the end that touched

(23:10):
the end sequence where we have thetwo of them. One of my favorite
moments in the whole film was afterDonna's beats John spoiler if you think it's
a spoiler beats Peace Damien at theend, they share that moment in the
locker room where even after everything's allsaid and done and Donal's gum sits down,
they have a moment. They kindof have like a forgiveness moment come
to you know, they kind ofmove on, and there's something touching about

(23:33):
adding up to the character, whichis why he's not a villain. That's
why when we wrote these categories out, I started off usually got better hero,
better villain. It's not a villainthis case, it's a better protagonists,
better antagonists. So I gotta giveus a creed. But I do
shout out clever Lang because he does. I feel like people look at that,
Oh it's very easily Damien. ButClever Lang was for what he was

(23:55):
supposed to do. He played therole he was supposed to play in the
movie. He was in You Can'tAsk for More Sometimes, Yeah, I
mean Clever Lang was essentially Rocky inRocky one and two. He was the
hungry I want I want the titleat any means necessarily, like I will

(24:15):
go to whatever lengths to get whatI want. And I feel like there
was one scene in particular in prethree that made me compare the two that
I was like, oh, thisis this is an not a continuation,
but a further development on Rocky threewas the scene where Damien's sitting in it

(24:37):
in his apartment area or in themotel or wherever he was staying, and
he was sitting on the bed andthen he holds the sink and he looks
in the mirror. That's the exactsame thing the club it did in Rocky
three. Yeah, Like he looks, he looks himself in the mirror,
then he punches the mirror. Butin this one, you have Damien.
He's shadow boxing in the mirror right, and I was just like, oh,

(24:59):
okay, this is this is theroad we're going down. Okay,
I like it. Yeah, Damienfor me is the obvious I say,
obvious choice again like you said,And I fully agree. Club Lang is
a great villain. He's a greatvillain. But I don't think Damien's a
villain. I think Damien is moreof an antagonist. Club A Lang was

(25:22):
just an evil prick, justified inboth of their intentions. But like we
said, it's that misguided anger andyou you can relate. I I know,
I definitely can. I can relateto Damien. Of like you see,
there is that jealousy thing you seeyour friends with, and it's it's
a natural thing. You see yourfriends doing better in life as something that

(25:45):
you set out to do, thatyou want for yourself, dreams that you
one day want to achieve, andyou see your friends start to achieve them
not necessarily off their off your ownback, but there is definitely the fucker
that should be me. I'm happyfor you, but that should be me,
right, And there was the momentwhere they sit down in the diner

(26:07):
just to like just as they madeeach other. I don't think Damien was
expecting Adonis to be like, letme help you. I think he was
at first. I think he waslike damn, like he does remember me,
Like, oh this, this isnot how I expected. I think
when it got to like him decidinghe wanted the title fight, then he

(26:29):
was like, all right, soyou're not gonna do it. I'm just
gonna take it, okay. ButI do think at the start there was
that that hesitation of him being like, oh, I wasn't expecting you to
be because if you know, it'slike he paused for a moment and he
was just like, oh, thanks, but I don't want a handout right.
In a way, yeah, it'sa interesting angle at that, I

(26:49):
think. I mean, it definitelycoincides with what we see at the end
afterwards. Obviously he at some pointmakes that decision I want the title fight.
I've lived eighteen years by bars whateverit is, I can't. I
don't have time to wait. Igotta take what's mine. And so he
does. He does take it inany way that he can. But at

(27:11):
the same time, I agree,I don't think he quite He probably had
his whole thing in the prison wherehe was his character like hated Donnas because
Donnas did run away. He's livinghis life. He watches that Donna's grow
up. He watches Donnas do everythinghe was supposed to do. So he's
got that jealousy angle. So he'scoming up with a chip on his shoulder.
So he's expecting to see he's createdthis whole like super villain of Adonna's

(27:33):
in his mind. That's the thesuper villain of his life at this point
because it sits down with them andhe's not. He's a nice guy.
So it's hard to really reconcile thatto a degree. I get that.
It makes it. It makes themmuch more interesting antagonists to be honest with
you again, and so it makeshim not a villain. It makes them
kind of a fun fun but likea intriguing and engaging villain or antagonists rather
so. And that was a moment, and I guess it will bleed over

(27:56):
into the story category, but thatwas a moment that I thought Adonis isn't
gonna get up. He's gonna he'sgonna let his friend have this. He's
gonna take the high ground, he'sgonna take the higher art he's not gonna
get up. He's gonna let Damienhave this, right, absolutely, And
I thought that that would what wouldhave like played into Damien. And I

(28:17):
was just like, but Jonathan Mayexacted the hell out of this, no
need that. He looked fucking insanelygood. Yes, like that that moment
of the the like the face offthe press Cormans they had where he's pointing
to the sign and you see likeall the definition in his arms and his
shoulders. I was like, geez, insane, he is insane. Indeed,

(28:38):
boy, all right, let's moveon then to your favorite category,
better fights, which these film hadbetter fights? Uh, let me do
mine quickly and I'll let you getfrom there. Honestly speaking, this is
a hard category, a harder categorythat looks like must be much like to

(29:00):
be clever Lang versus versus Damien,because the fights are what they're supposed to
be for the movie they are in, if that makes sense, Create three.
Honestly, the fights are probably thebest out out boxing matches we've seen
in these movies. They seem tobe really as far as I'm concerned,

(29:22):
as far as I've seen, itslike, they're pretty close to being like
genuine minus the interesting twist we hadon the subconscious there in the final fight,
which we'll get to in a minute. But they seem to be very
technically oriented. They it seem likethey've tried to be technically oriented a little
bit ever since Rocky Belbo. Itseems like they've tried to go more serious
and more realistic than the let's say, the guns near cartoonish Rocky battles where

(29:45):
it's swinging as hard as you canand not exactly the sweet science, so
to speak. But again, it'shard to it's hard to vilify Rocky three
for doing what it was doing atthe time. That's it was fit into
that package it was trying to sell. It was trying to sell more of
a I wasn't trying to sell anythingmore than that. That being said,
Create three is the better fight sequences? Is it dramatically a better fight sequence?

(30:08):
That's a good question, because that'sthe where actually I almost just declared
create through to the victory. Butthen I go back a little bit.
Let's talk about the subconscious angle fora second. The subconscious angle was a
big swing by by by Michael B. Jordan. It was to try it
was an attempt to try to getout of the you know, the box

(30:30):
that Rocky has. We have thefinal fight in every Rocky movie, generally
speaking, whereas the two competitors goingout and they usually have the first round
they show and then they kind ofskip a little bit. There's a big
moment somewhere in the middle rounds,there are a big moment somewhere like a
little bit later on, and thenget to the final sequences where they're both
the two warriors are all tired andbloody, and you know, they have

(30:53):
one more round ago somebody goes toa pep talk and eventually we find out
what happens, whether it's winner lose. Yeah, this was an attempt to
try to do something different for thefirst time since Rocky five. Really Rocky
five. By the angle, we'renot gonna have a fight in the ring
at the end, We're just gonnahave a street fight. But quite frankly,
it was still a similar layout,just not in the ring. In

(31:14):
Cree. We had this attempt toput Michael B. Jordan get into Michael
B. Jordan's subconscious and this wholelike the steel cage is going up and
the crowd is gone, and itwas nice. It was kind of cool.
I didn't like that, h butI gotta say there's something about the
tried and true Rocky like three formulawith the crowd there, Rocky versus Clubber,

(31:36):
that file fight I remember. Igot actually got a little more into
the Rocky three fight. I didthe three Creed three fight. Mmm,
because Creed three fight kind of thethe angle took me out of it a
little bit. And I still likethe angle. I like the ambition,
but part of me was like,I want to watch Rocky and Drago are
Clubber going at it, having thecrowd actually getting all psyched up, and

(31:57):
having Rocky started going. I mean, kids, that's all you got.
You ain't so bad. You ain'tso bad like Paulie and the Hood.
What's he doing? He's getting mad? You get mad? Yeah? Yeah,
yeah, And I love that kindof cock cartoon thing. So like,
better clinical fight, pre three,better story fight. I gotta give
it to Rockey three. I think, Wow, I'm surprising myself. I

(32:20):
had this before. This is gonnabe Cree three. I'm switching. I'm
switching gears. I'm giving this oneto Rockey three. Okay, here's a
shaka I'm gonna agree with you.Oh all right, let me explain here.
I love the the anime influence.The anime influences were there, and
for anyone who's watched Dragon Ball Z, there's the shot where they punch each

(32:44):
other and they like, go away, that's got that's Vegeta punching Goku and
the two of them punching each other, and then go like that when he
pun when he punches Adonis through thechest, that's Freezer punching Goku through the
chest. Like I remember those scenesvividly in my head from growing up and
watching Dragon Ball Z. So shoutout Michael B. Jordan for that.

(33:04):
That was great. I love thatthe fights in the Creed movies are a
lot more technical. They will bringin boxes like a Tony Bell, you
a Canalo Alvarez to like not onlylike be part of the movie, but
to oversee the choreography and be like, ah, I no, that probably
wouldn't go like that, did Ido it like this? I appreciate the

(33:28):
taking it into the spirituality and themental side of boxing that Creed did because
ultimately, once you were in there, and I can tell you this from
experience, once you were in there, crowd goes away like you don't.
You're focused on the person in frontof you, and that is it.
But god damn if you. Ican appreciate the technicalities of watching someone like

(33:51):
a Roy Jones Jr. Or VasiliLomachenko, the technical all of that,
but the average viewer, we wantto see someone get knocked the fuck out,
and that is exactly what Creed threedid. This was Mike Tyson.
This, like Creed three was aC three was a Mike Tyson fight.

(34:13):
And who who are people more likelyto pay to see Mike Tyson? Like?
It was just the two guys leatheringthe absolute shit out of each other,
Rocky being like, oh you youain't so bad, You ain't so
bad, come on, knock meout and knock me out like he's talking
like he would have got if thatwas a real life boxing match, he
would have gotten knocked out, probablyeven have died from taking that much brain

(34:35):
damage. Oh absolutely, taking thosemany shots to the head from a guy
like club A Lane, Yeah,he probably would have very at least gotten
knocked out. But my god,it's so much fun to watch guys like
that, and it's just that isthe I like when I talk about it
in fight sports, I like tocall him the football fans. I don't
like using the word casual fan.The football fan, like the fan who

(34:57):
watches a football that's just like,oh Josh was fighting, oh Tie,
some furious fight. Yeah, I'llchange in and watch that. That there,
the fight and Rookie three between Cluband Rookie is the fight that people
want to pay money to see.Yeah, and I feel like that's why
I'm picking. Is it better technically? Absolutely nowhere? Kne my god,

(35:21):
It's so much more fun. Absolutelygood. I'm glad you see the same
side there. You know what Iwant toss it in there to fuck it.
Rocky three also has Thunderlips the Thunderland'sRocky Battle and god, come on,
nothing wrong there. I love that. I love a little cooking there
as well. So all right,then let's move on into category number four.
Better score, better score. Thisis a tough one. This is

(35:45):
a very tough one. Are weincluding songs on the soundtrack as the score?
I was going with just to scoremyself. I didn't live listen to
the center. Well, you knowwhat, we should probably include the soundtracks,
shouldn't I? OK? Yeah,we can. Let's just soundtrack CRE
three, Great three, Great three. The every song is an absolute smash

(36:07):
on the soundtrack. I get there'sthe whole Gotta Fly Now and all that,
but I haven't gone back to theRocky three soundtrack other than Gotta Fly
Now. I have The Tiger thebasics, right. I have listened to
the CRE three soundtrack at least twicea day since I saw the movie,

(36:34):
Like when I'm working out, Ihave it on like it's that. It's
that damn like everyone on the Dreamvilleroster they had it on there. And
I get. I get that EitherTiger is iconic, But do you know
how many times I've heard that fuckingsong in my life because it's iconic.
Actually, not only is the iconicpeople think of Rocky, they think of
Either Tiger. And it wasn't untilthe third film that actually debuts. Even

(36:59):
though Rocky water to better, muchbetter films. This is what it is.
I'm wanna jump in. I'm gonnagive it to Rocky three. Not
just because of the Tiger though,but a lot is because of my The
Tiger kind of what yes, underbrother, you want to say it,
Matt, uh, Yeah, FrankStallone is on the Rocky three soundtrack,
and you can't kill wrong with FrankStallone, but Rocky. Here's what ither
thing about the Creed three soundtrack isgoing to the score version of things.

(37:22):
Joseph Shirley does it not Ludwig GornsonSureley is obviously part of Lowig's team,
does a very good job overall.But I gotta tell you Littly did it
better in Creed when he brought theRocky score back. That was the best,
one of the best moments of Creed. We do have a little bit
of the Rocky score at the veryend of this fight. I was gonna
say, did you notice that theyused Gonna Fly now? But like a

(37:44):
tiny little bit and shout out toJeff. I actually I told Jeff because
I got I got to see itearly. I told Jeff they didn't use
it because I didn't want to.I didn't want to ruin the moment,
that moment, in that moment whenthat came, yes, they used it.
I was very happy they did.I was very happy they did.

(38:06):
But overall, I can't Bill Kantiis a phenomenal or. I listen to
those Rocky soundtracks, the scores andit makes me just want to run through
a wall every time, So Ican't. I can't turn down Bill County
anytime. Overall, I love LudwigGrins and stuff in Create I like,
I like Joseph Shirley, stuff inCreed three. It's it's great stuff.

(38:27):
You give me, Bill CONTI youkind of flying out, you give me.
I had the Tiger, one ofthe most iconic songs in the history
of sound Survive Survivor did Tiger Speaking? Which did you know that the original
song was actually going to be Queen'sanother one Bites the Dust. That was
the original song that they were goingto take, But they they they Queen

(38:47):
there's something about the wreck company,and they want to pay for our company
for it. So they gave bya tiger and said, you know what,
Hey, I can't. I can'tknock at eye the Tiger being quite
iconic in himself. I have aTiger. It's such a simple song.
It's literally dent. Then I thinkmy pick is solely like just recency bias,

(39:07):
and like I am, I've heardI have tigers so many of course,
of course, like do you knowhow much that song comes on in
a gym for like all the newpeople to like get them hype, and
I'm just like when I got Wemand Change music. When I got We
rock Band, that was a songme and my family played all the time
because that's one of the songs.I love it. It is iconic,

(39:28):
and yeah, I do get Idon't think there is a winner leading.
I just think I'm like, Ilove the soundtrack for three three, Like
I've been listening to it a lot, and I got it. I totally
got I said, I'm not sayinganything wrong with that at all. So
yeah, I don't know, andit's gonna be it's it's it's an interesting
battle. I do think that,uh, the Rocky soundtrack is going to

(39:52):
live a little longer than created atthis point. Reach why I'm giving it
to Rocky for sure, just forthat reason alone. But yeah, three
three as great as it is greatas well, I hope they continue.
Doesn't sure they can can score threefours afar as I'm concerned because he he
did do a good job. Didyou know that Ludwig and Ryan Cougle were
roommates at college. I did notknow that. I had no idea until

(40:14):
the other day I was watching Ithink I think it was on Dan's review
review. I think he mentioned thatthose two roommates and problems, like huh,
that makes sense, and it alsolends into like the whole Marvel and
Decent and Marvel and Star Wars thingof like being like, hey, I
knew that guy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yes, Coucci's best friend

(40:37):
forever frand alone now and the finalfights bites of dust as he takes down
Kluba, And yes, that wouldbe great. CLUBA. Cluba has a
great, great action. Army generalwould say, all right, let's move
on into the final battle here inthe final round, ding ding better story.

(41:01):
All right, this is where Idon't think there's any contest. To
me. This is Creed three byfar h fuck you said that. It's
hard to say otherwise, honestly speaking, like Rocky again, it comes down
to whether you prefer what you preferand what the story is trying to tell.
Rocky three is a cartoonish movie fromfront to back, and I love

(41:22):
I do love it. I dolove it overall, but it doesn't have
nearly the depth and the the familialrelationships and the storylines from the villain or
antagonists, I should say, andhas the family side with with even that's
I will say Creed and Tessa Thompsonand their daughter, the whole family thing

(41:45):
was a little underwhelming for me interms of I like they introduce it that
it kind of just kind of sitsthere and there's not really resolving of it.
Really kind of feels like it's adifferent they don't they we're getting in.
They should have go a little bitfurther in. I'm not sure what
you take out to give that moreroom, but I kind of did feel
a little under cooked. Take that'sthat's a better word under cooked for me.

(42:07):
Maybe that's what they're gonna go Rockyfor or Creed for me, that's
what we're gonna do. But evenso, it's still better than the general
Rocky Adrian rehash for the most part, or Rocky three. So at the
end of the day, the Creedthree is an easy one for me.
Yeah, that I would say.There are parts of Rocky three that I

(42:30):
like moist, but the original storyof Creed three is just so so much
better. I Mean, anytime Isee Mickey, I think, like every
GYM has it's like we used tohave this guy, old Rob who would
like he was this old timer whowould like just walk around the gym like
telling you then if I was ifI had a to pro back in the

(42:50):
day, this is what I wouldhave done. And he very much was
that Mickey guy. Like he allhe was good at was just yelling at
you to get you hyped up.And seeing him seeing Rocky like because we
never, like really see much ofRocky's family life other than Pauli and Agy,
and we never see anything about likehis parents or anything like that.
Mickey was the closest thing to afather that he had. So seeing Rocky

(43:14):
deal with that in motion of losinga father figure and then it leading to
him losing someone who was like abrother to him, I think it.
I think Rocky three did a goodjob of laying the groundwork for Rocky four.
Yeah, I agree with that.I mean, don't get me wrong,
the Mickey aspect was good. Ina cartoonish movie, it had some
serious moments. Mickey's death was definitelyone of them, and I'm not gonna

(43:36):
lie. Also, I don't wantto discredit Rocky and Apollo's friendship that starts
there, really, that rekindles therein a way, and that that is
a very obviously very important to thegroundwork of Creed really quite honestly. So
it's not like it's it's empty.It's just not quite as intricate as what
Creed three DIDs. It gives me. Yeah, I think Rocky three was

(43:58):
like the build up for Rocky four. Whether they had to do in mind
to do a fourth, I don'tknow, but I feel like it's the
building blocks and the foundation for Rockyfour, whereas Creed three goes into like
so much depth of like growing upin the environment that those two grew up

(44:19):
in, making something of yourself,defining your own legacy. I mean you
even think he Adonis has it onthe gym wall of like define your own
legacy. And there's the whole thingof not just the retired fighter coming back,
like we can all like that's atried and true tale that will be
forever till the end of time.But then there was like the him bringing

(44:43):
drago Son in for his training campand little things like that. I was
like, man, they're really likethey're tying everything together and like enveloping on
it. More like He's he Adonnasis promoting a fight for drago Son,
and it just shows the level ofgrowth of that character from the first pre

(45:04):
film where he's taking smoke of fightsin Mexico. So now he's on top
of the world and he's a promoter, and he's like just seem to have
like forgiven everything, and he's justlike, look, I'm good, let
me just walk away. But thenhe gets pulled back in right, And
Jonathan Major's story is one that youknow, we we see you all the
time, but we still that youknow, that antagonist who we sympathize with,

(45:30):
and we get why they do thethings that they do. They're just
doing a batter the wrong way.Probably would do it the same way myself,
but it's just, yeah, there'sa lot more depth and I would
say a lot more heart in thein the Creer, I think there.
I don't know who wrote the story. I think, well, maybe it

(45:51):
was Cooglar, but like there seemsto have been like a great deal of
thought going into the overall arc ofa Donnis Creed. I do agree with
you. I think they're could havebeen a bit more of the stuff with
his daughter. I feel like maybejust the scene back at the school where
like the girl goes to punt,like the girl's gonna punch her, and
she's just like, nah, mydad taught me better than that. I'm

(46:13):
not right. I'm not gonna doanything. I'm just gonna all right,
cool, you can rip up mypicture. I'm just gonna go paint another
one. Absolutely something to that effect. I like that you could see the
girl get in trouble every bullying insteadit's happened. And the one thing I
did think was missing, and wetalked about this pre show, just the
little thing of Adonis getting out ofthe ring and being like, I'm gonna

(46:37):
go call my uncle real quick.Yeah, because you know, even if
Rocky wasn't like there, you know, he would have been watching. He
would have had it on the TVand he he would have been watching.
Hell, maybe he would even beenin the front, like in the front
row, and like maybe we justdon't see him and he's just gonna like
maybe Donal's was just like, hey, let me go check on my uncle
real quick, and then he justdisappears and you haven't seen with Damie it

(47:00):
right, And yeah, it's justthat that it is a tiny little thing.
It's a rocky size hole. It'sstill hard to that cargo. So
but it is what it is,and I understand sometimes behind the scenes stuff
can mess with you. You probablyfelt a little weird. We did have
the one mention of Rocky at onepoint, uh, very very quick mention
of Rocky as an underdog fight inthe beginning, but otherwise not nothing at

(47:22):
all. And sometimes behind the scenesstuff can unfortunately overtake the on screen stuff,
which is a disappointment, which issad, but it is what it
does. You can't do anything aboutit, so we got to accept it
and move forward. There was onepart of the movie as well that I
really really loved it, and it'ssomething that I actually I messaged Jeff like

(47:42):
after I saw it, as likethis movie woke something up in me.
And it was when he's looking inthe mirror and Duke says to him,
you see that man there? Doyou recognize him? I felt that that
was like someone reached into my heartand just tore it out, and I
was just like, damn, yeah, yeah, good stuff, good stuff.

(48:07):
Well already that will do it.Then we have a clear cut winner.
I don't think there's any real surprisefor myself, for you, and
for most people who know us.Uh. Unfortunately for Rocky three fans.
It's not Rocky three as his winner. Creed three wins this one seven to
three. It's a respectable fight respectively. Rocky three does put up a good,

(48:29):
good battle, even better than Ithought it would, to be honest
with you. But at the endof the day, I think cre three
is this day better film. Ialmost felt like going into this this last
night. I was thinking about it. It might have been more interesting of
a battle to do the first threeRocky movies versus the first three treat movies,

(48:50):
Like, how about this? Then? If this truly is the last
Creed that we're gonna get, sir, Oh, glad that happens on the
I mean I don't think it is. There are top on Green Forest.
I don't think it's gonna happen.But well, they're fine. We just
added Rocky Ford in the mixed.I don't real dangerous for Cruit at that
point. I mean the the Yeah, I mean the original, the original.

(49:12):
Yeah, we're not gonna deal withthe Love live. But bro,
you you kind of you fucked upa classic? Yeah, absolut fucking alright
there? How do you cut themroll? But you are making an eighties
movie? You're made an eighties movie. You gotta stick to it. You
can't make it a new wage movieanymore. Go do a remaster of Over
the Top. Leave Rocky Floor alone. I'll even take I'll even take a

(49:37):
little different, little updated in aCobra if you want. But oh my
god, yes, alright, Maddiework on the Folks Froger. You can
find me on Twitter at Maddy Gunner, Instagram Maddie Underscore Gunner. You can
find my band Morna m o ur any R on all DSPs. Tune
in to our podcast tomorrow Hobe Snokes. I'm going to be announcing the single

(49:59):
name and the release date for itbecause the title, I will just admit
it something that stole from Star Wars. So tune in tomorrow on Holy Snokes
where I'll be announcing that. Andyou can find me here every other Tuesday
for Class Action, Wednesdays for HolySnokes, and every Friday and Monday on
the Wild Jonts podcast Network if youwant to hear me talk about more actual

(50:21):
fighting. So there's that too,And of course stay tuned. You're gonna
make the Crea versus Drago breakdown thatyou saw today. Ententry here. We
like that you find me at punchforth to New Zealm on Twitter. You
can find me at patreon dot comslash pod products alongside Matty Kurns, Brendan
Buckingham, Jeff Alterman and Joon,the three Bunch others. I really appreciate

(50:42):
you guys helping me keep the lightson. You can find me here every
other week on class Action. Theother week you can find me with PJ
Campbell and two week of Weight Tudeson Film. Next up for us,
we are doing a lethal web Actually, I take that back. We're gonna
have a two for next week.I talked about PJ about this. I
think it's ninety nine confirmed, soI guess things could change. But if
it doesn't change, We're going tosee a live two media for Weight Dudes

(51:07):
on Film on Sunday night covering Screamsix and and then later on the week
we will continue and conclude the Leaththe Weapons side and Leath the Weapon four.
So a two for from me,me and PJ next week. Potentially
you live, you never know,you never know, you never know what's
going down there. Uh. Andof course holy stomps. Just like Matty

(51:28):
said earlier, Holy Stomps every week. We got two episodes. This week
we'll talk about the Celebration News Mandalorianbad Batch. It's all coming at us.
And we've got two other podcasts thatare gonna be coming out soon as
well on PLD projects. Irregularly scheduledpodcasts is what I call them, because
they're not gonna be weekly. They'regonna be as I get to them.
We have the Harristonts which should becoming out late spring early summer. It's

(51:51):
a little more of a video essayfrom me. Uh and of course Review,
which is the podcast I am bringingforth about the old sci fi classic
V is one of my favorite franchisesin the world. It started off with
a band with a great interview that'sgoing come up soon. And then myself
and new pod project co hosts Legowill be helping me out with that.

(52:12):
Legos joining the team. Leo isjoining the team, so that should be
a lot of fun. I thinkthat's it, guys. That's it until
next time. Of course, stayclassic. Before we go, we didn't
do anything. If this is yourfirst time here, just like subscribe ring
that nullification about ding ding that beingsaid, justice has been served. Charbi

(52:37):
loves you. For that Charvy lovesyou, sh