Crimson Tide (1995) vs Enemy of the State (1998)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So it's me. It's me.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's p LD, and I'm Richard Eric Jerry, and I'm
Madi Ganna. And this is class Action, the classiest movie
show on the intewebbs.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh there it is.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
I can't help an aero drum to that sound the
class Action Team. I don't get lilten to do it enough,
or in the background it's playing. It's rocking up the
m P three file. I know, but I don't choose
to play it a lot. I forget that.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's there kind of thing I will taught about. It's
a banger. It's an absolute banger. So I should. I will,
I will. What's up? What is up do you guys?
I'm PLD.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Of course this Stritch character Ary, that's Matty Gunner. We
already introduced ourselves. But we're here, class Action Live.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We're back. There's our was a third episode back now
after our little long hiatus.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
But it's good to be back. I really do love
this show and I miss it when it's gone. It's
great to talk to you guys about movies, all the
movies we have to talk about. The only thing about
the new format we have is that we don't do
as many shows, So it's always that we have to
feel like we have to do something special each time,
whereas before we get up were always weekly back in
the beginning, like yeah, I'll just do whatever, whatever, we
want to do whatever against each other.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
We can do a small movie. Who cares now, right,
we let's do.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
An event movie. And we do have an event this
or this month. Rather that we are covering very very
tragic event, a sad event. Second, but it is the
death of the one, the only, the powerful, the great,
and one of the greatest actors of his generation and
of all time, Gene Hackman, lovely man, lovely actor, powerhouse

(02:08):
performances throughout his career, and we figured, you know, what
better way to do a tribute on this channel than
do two Gene Hackman movies against each other. That way,
Gene Hackman wins no matter what. And then, of course,
beyond that, not only does Gene Hackman win no matter what,
Tony Scott wins no matter what because it happened to
be too Tony Scott directed films. And if you watch

(02:30):
the show or by channel enough, you know that we
are big Tony Scott fans as well. So this is
pretty much perfect matchup, although it did take it a
little while to get there, didn't it.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I was just about to say, I think this is
the one that may have taken us the longest to
actually decide. I spent a message saying, oh wait, knock
your heads together, let's decide, and let's go. We have PJ.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Campbelieve in voicing his opinion and getting in the middle
of it going what are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
You guys do this, this and that, and we were like,
I don't know what to do. Let's talk through that.
Why we had this decision.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I think you guys were kind of chill about picking
the movie, and I was just like not having any
of it. And in all honesty, I don't think this
matchup is fair because we're putting one of the greatest
movies of all time against an okay thriller. I mean,
this is just a fucking sledgehammer.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
But always say jarviy is about the categories.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Conceptually even no genre wise, yeah, sure, and Tony Scott
movie short Hackman movie. Sure, but a submarine movie versus
pretty much like a Chase action movie.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
M h. I don't know, man, but we're getting into
one of the categories now.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
So I think we should, but let's discuss what the
other options were. We'll throw it out there. Less of
the audience can maybe decide what we chose the right
matchup or not. Jarvy, you wanted to do I believe
I remember correctly any of the State versus Runaway Jury
two three one Gene Happens, Final Rules.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Uh. The other one's possibilities.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Were we talked about, I want to do just this,
the one that didn't get a discussion at all, except
for in my mind, the Tony the gene Happened versus
Gene Happened, and then the Ed Harris versus Ed Harris.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
We could do Absolute Power versus the Firm. Uh.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
That would have been my choice partially, But you know,
the other one, what PG came up with, which actually
also made a lot of sense, was the conversation versus
the enemy. It was the enemy, and we'll talk about
why it makes more sense because we talk about these films.
One of your reasons, Jarby you did say was that
we have done Crimson Tide on the show before. It's
one of the first times you've ever done a repeat.

(04:40):
I will say we did this long and long enough ago.
But I can't remember anything about our previous episode. I
know it was up against Hunter October and I know
who won only because I cheated and looked today to
see which one one out of curiosity, and uh, Crimson tied.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, you didn't have me on to sway your opinions.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
You did not have the great Matta Gunner on his
way our opinions. U. But the end of the day,
we did. Oh there was another one I forgot too
well when I threw out. There was Runaway Jury versus
a little film that I had not seen from gene
haappen called class Action. I mean to me, and I'm like, hell,
how could we one day have to do movie and

(05:17):
not do class action?

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Right?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
But we did end up deciding we will do it
one day. Maybe that's a sequel. Do maybe do class
Action versus Runaway Jury? Both both legal thrillers kind of thing. Jarry,
why did you pitch Runaway Jury versus Edemy to stay?

Speaker 2 (05:30):
I don't know, because well I do know, because Crimson
Tide is pretty much like a closed concept movie. It's
a closed environment movie. Let's say, going up against a
movie that is like, well, not globe trotting, city trotting
feels big. They're everywhere, They're doing this, they're doing that.
So I'd say set wise, like the vibe everything. To me,

(05:56):
they're so very different, and I don't ever come like
if I'm in a movie, if I'm watching Crimson Tide, well,
if I'm picking the same kind of movies, this is
what I'm picking. Either a submarine movie, like a battleship
type of movie, a war movie, but like like environment movie, Well,
battleship is a beast of its own. If I'm watching

(06:19):
Enemy of the State something like that, I kind of
want like a legal well it's not a legal thriller,
but man on the run from the law. That's the
kind of movie. That's that's why I figured Runaway Jury.
I know, it's not like man. Well, actually he's man
on the run. He's kind of kind of taking things.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
And he's doing a lot of running.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, there's a lot of running. Those are the type
of movies that I would put them up against, because
these are not very comparable to me. That was my
issue with them.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
I mean, I will say a Beast of its Own
is probably the nicest thing I ever heard. Somebody called
Battleship back.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
On watch our episode of what was it, Prince of
Persia versus I can't remember. It was the one that
we did Prince of Persia on where we had PJ.
Campbell as a guest. We actually talked about battleship and
he had some very uh colorful, colorful.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Watchable.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Is it okay.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
You're not with me over Transformers?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
You don't have Liam Neeson, which I'll give it a
lot of credit form that I do love, do love
me an old old, old, angry old man, angry characters.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
So I'll do this pleasure to the audience as well.
I wanted to do Chef versus Rat to E and
that was immediately shot down.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yes, well the gene happened, But I'll did Trump and
everything else at that point of Cheffer's ratit maybe that
could be a future one potentially maybe, I probably not.
I don't see jermy I looking at Charvey's eyes, I
don't think that's I feel.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Bad, immediately shut down. Now I feel bad.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
He's he's a good man, he's a strong man. You
can take it.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
You can you can you can act it. But either way,
let's talk about do you see we did? And I'm
choosing obviously the reason why we chose I chose these.
I was pushing for this.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
I think Maddy agreed with me and how he bowld
Bold Jarvior a little bit at the end. I'm not
gonna lie. Definitely, he's the.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Least here a little bit under their under duress, A
little bit you are. They are two of the really
great nineties thrillers. They both were directed by the great
Tony Scott, which met a lot to me personally. But
it's a big Tony Scott fan. Any relation to Michael Scott,
not Michael Scott. Ridley, yesked Michael, No, not farther because Michael.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Michael Scott does have ambitions of being a director.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Scrab made a movie many movies though as well.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Very true, very true, great director. He's he's the un
He's the lost brother of Tony and Ridley for sure. Uh,
the undiscovered.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Are they actually brothers? Tony absolutely? Yes, No, I didn't
know that. So it is literally the rush hour thing
of oh yeah, brothers, they are, yes, literally brothers.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's uh, this is why I actually would love to
have seen really complete I mean, Tony Scott could have done. Yeah,
there's a different discussion for a different Day. But I
feel like, really Scott could have done a great version,
great version of some of Tony Scott's h follow up
movies that they were thinking about doing at one point.
I think to twenty Scott would have been like I
when I watch The Equalizer, I would incty. I feel

(09:19):
like that was a Tony Scott. That's what I feel like.
I feel like when talking about this too, it's kind
of like it feels like and I don't have disrespect
for I'm sorry, I have to call him by his
legally observed name. Uh, the director of Training Day. Yes,
your Training Day, and that's his legal name. Now if
you look at all those trailers. But no, but that's

(09:41):
that's actually legally if you ever watch any trailer from
an movie, it's from the director of Training Day. Yep.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
That will follow him to his grave.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Every single one that would be on his headstone. Yes,
the fact, the director of Shining Day.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
But there's a discussion to be made with really, like
with really on Tony that Tony Scott if we ever
dated Tony versus Ridley one, there is a discussion where
Tony Scott, I feel like, would win. I think he's
more consistent as a director Gridley Bigger, sure consistent.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Really is more epic. He's definitely got the more epic
movies kind of thing. But Tony's definitely got the action
vibe down when he hit his stride, which I think
he really hit the Crimson Tied his first movie where
he really kind of hit his stride.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
And not not to decry his eighties work like Top Gun.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
People love Days of Thunder people love, but I feel
like he hit like Tony Scotts during this one and
never really looked back.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Man on Fire is still to me his peak, his
peak Tony scott movie.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Have we ever done Days of Thunder versus Top Gun,
because that's actually the same movie, just with cars versus
Plan Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
We ever did? We did Days of Thunder versus Ballad
of Bobby Tally Big Knights.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I think we'd probably do better do Days of Thunder
versus something like Rush.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
To be honest with you, potentially, I think we've we
haven't done that.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
We haven't. We never did that. We thought about we.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Do f one versus Rush. Now, if it comes out,
I think that's it. That's a sure thing that could be.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
You do that potentially somehow I want to throw forwards
Ferrari in the mix there too, somewhere maybe I don't know, potentially,
and there's a racing film we can do.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
We can maybe do a whole recent.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
We could tournament speed The one with Grand Turismo versus
f one actually works because there's a mentor and a
young hotshot driver. I mean we're going off track here.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Speed Racer.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Then we're gonna do that. I mean, speed Racer. Come on,
h we are going to the love talk. But anyway,
great Tony Scott Chart's great release Scot there. I think
we actually could do Tony Scott's Redy Cot Someday they'd
become a fun one to do for sure. Yeah, Alan,
But in the shot liked our video and subscribed?

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Thank you so much. Yes, do that like that video? Subscribe?
Leave our comments about what you wanted to see us do?
Did we make the right choice here in this movie?
This battle was driving the right one.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
There was mad who knows, you know, sometimes there is
no rights and wrong. The problem starts from the chain
of commands.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well done, well paid. Well.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
I think we were both right and we were both
This dispute will haunt us for the rest of our days.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
All right, let's we're not gonna wait for our orders
any long. We're gonna Keep're gonna push on, like are
our last orders. Let's talk about the show.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
What is this show? Class action?

Speaker 3 (12:28):
If you're your first time here, this is the show
where we take two movies or as you possibly were
listening earlier, we could put two directors up to serious
new franchises, to composers, to anything against each other in a.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Battle composers, and then you're cut off of it for
me at least.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Okay, composers. Anything we can do, we approached anything in
the film world. We put them up against each other
in a grand battle in the courtroom. It's finally time
I said that, as you say the steel cage, we
do a that on the courtroom to decide which one
legally is the greater film.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
How do we do that?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
We don't just say our thoughts and feelings, not our
impulsive hammer and throwing. This is a trial where we
have categories. We got to fight through five categories and
we have to discover which is the better film via
the categories. Because all the time we've done this show'd
so many times where I've thought of film was definitively
gonna win easily, and then categories came up and Jarvi

(13:27):
throws me at a monkey wrench, he throws me in mony,
and all of a sudden, my thoughts are completely out
the window, and the other film wins. I'm kind of
curious what happens this time. And I will say right
off the bat, we prepare our trial, we go through
our categories, and sometimes we come in with definitive thoughts
and sometimes, like today for me, there's plenty of thought.

(13:48):
Dr I'm like, I don't know which one I like better.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Because to Jarvi's.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Point of why we maybe got a issue with this
these two films, it's they are really hard to compare
as far as what is the better, because they're just
different in so many different ways. But we're gonna ply
with through it anyway, because that's our job. Before we
do that, we have one segment we always like to
do in this show first, and this is what would

(14:14):
Ed Harris play. This is our recast round, or we
take the most greatest character actor of all time, the
one that he should have won five hundred Academy Awards
he's not won one yet. Is a travesty, is a shamackery,
it is. I just don't even know what else to
say about it. But he should have won. We put
him in one of these films.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Hey, job, could you prepare for this one?

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Sure? All right?

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Because I purposely didn't prepare. Okay, because you never prepare. Yeah,
and I'll want to see who who would win this time? Okay?
All right?

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, let's say we recast a role with Ed Harris,
or we can also write in a new character if
he wants you. Sometimes we get creative and decide to
add a new character to the storyline, even if it's
a perfect movie. We decide we're gonna add at Harris
because Harris can only make it more perfect. So, with
neither of you preparing, should I just go ahead with mine?

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Got it?

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Well? Crimson Tide and Enemy State both have easy answers
for me, quite honestly. Crimson Tide, as sacrilegious as it
might be, especially on his honor, especially on this day,
or celebrating a gene happened, I think Ed Harris was
sliding to the Ramsey role.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
The only right, that's the only right. It's too perfect,
But sometimes too perfect is too perfect for the right reason.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Sometimes so perfect you can't even see anything else for it.
I mean, quite frankly, what I find about Crimson Tide
is I liken this to another very well loved nineties thriller,
and that is the rock in terms of because the
antagonists of the film is not necessarily a villain of sorts.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
There are. They do some bad things, some.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Things go down, but they're not like the mustache twirling villains,
and they have some arguably defensible positions between them, unless,
of course, unless they're way up high something they have
the high ground, then they don't. But but at Harry
sliding into that role of someone who is probably a
very all American military leader kind of person, strong military

(16:21):
leader has to deal with a young, hot shot guy
who's like more less by the book and more by
the seat of his parts. And it's these arguing philosophies together.
I think at Harris slides very perfectly into the role
of Ramsay.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, perfectly.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, I think his only role, the only role that
he could fit in. No, I'm just saying, I just
think that's the one he would fit in best. That
just makes the most sense.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
To me, that that category or that segment got me thinking,
like Hackman and Ed Harris very similar actors in a
lot of ways, and I was I was also trying
to think, like, is there's something each of them couldn't
like if we're thinking of their roles, thinking of their
like whole I don't know quality, right. I feel like

(17:08):
they are filling a lot of the same holes. And
that got me thinking no pun intendity here. Uh that
So that got me thinking what can Hackman do that
Ed Harris can do can't do? And vice versa. And
with Ed Harris, I feel like he's he has that
same authority about him, that sort of he delivers lines

(17:28):
with power everything. But with Ed Harris, there's almost like
something some pain or depth beneath the surface that we
don't see, but we know it's there. With Hackman, what
you see is what you get. And I don't mean
that to discredit him, right, but there's something about Ed

(17:50):
Harris is like there's always a pain or a depth
there that shows, but we don't always visit.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, that's a fair from box of chocolates. You never
know what you're gonna get. Fair.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Very sure you can get sweet water at her as
with the colorful costumes, the long hair, the mullet from
Love Lives Bleeding is the other one you can get.
I'm I do have actually have that one still, I
probably did.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
I don't have to Love Life Bleeding one yet I did.
I did have that one in there at some point.
Sweet Water I do have, though I do have sweet
Water at that.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
One. I love that one.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
The download the Love Lives leading over the the Old
Men mullet, but we'll go from there. I do like
that one the two though. I don't see Harrison a
medieval Ferris too much. But that's under the rock and
Roll one there. Uh okay, Maddie, how about you Ed
Harris for Crimson Tide Pauty.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I've done a stall wist, Paul cost me long enough
to know you're a man of connectivity, a man of
stories into weaving. And it's funny that you mentioned the
rock to you have Ed Harris right at the end
on the panel dressing them down, returning as general home.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wow, you got like mindicated somehow.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Or maybe three uh, maybe.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
It would be his Nick Fury appearing in When the
Nick Fury it was full.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Right, that's how he lose his faith in in the military.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
That could be something that I like where you're going
with that connectivity. My god, man, my god, good choice.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Good. I'm surprised you didn't go there.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Didn't you get add engine together on screen too, which
is always gonna be a fun.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
And then you have like a young Nick Cage in
the background.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Oh somewhere in the in the audience. Perhaps I like
that a lot. Yeah, you just got screwed. It sounds like,
so that's what you're.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
I did get screwed in a way, but I actually
I have the same connectivity. So but the role comes
in way sooner when just when Denzel takes control, like
Hackman is locked in his quarters, that's when he's he's
the captain. He has a new exo. And at some
point there's like there there's a warning something like man

(20:18):
in the water. They don't know what's going on. There's
someone in the water. They have to go up to
periscope depth and they pull in this body. He's still breathing,
and he's like messed up in a big way. He's
like you feel he's gotten shot, but he's still alive.
And he comes on board and they take him in
and he's like he's actually just faking. That's he's hurt

(20:39):
and he comes in and he tries to install these
VX gas rockets into into the submarine. And he actually
is the one who goes to Ramsey and bails him out.
So Ramsey comes back with a whole crew. There's so
many plot holes in this because it just came up
with that.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Can I know mistakes, No mistakes. I thought you were
going to suggest that they find me a coup A
class sub on the when really it's Ed Harris.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
That would have probably been the sweeter. But everything, he's
kind of just trying to sabotage, not sabotage, but he
knows Ramsey is this guy because he's they got the
same values.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Wait wait, I got an idea. I got an idea.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Maybe what's on the sonar is an oil rig as
gull below the surface and they have to get a
Harris and then somehow the water breaks through. They just
like when when Rick Schroeder watches those people die in
the in the in the the bay with all the
water coming to the drown he has to let him drown, Yes,
let him drown. And Herr shows up and he has
to resuscitate one of those people and bring him back

(21:44):
to life.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Or he had he gets resuscitated, and he's like, you
never backed away from any fight.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Don't fight.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Okay, let's move on into the enemy of the state.
We're gonna recast role at the state. I will, you
can go ahead. I guess if you want one that's
perfect for me.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think is the best choice. But I want Ed
Harris as a JK. Simmons J Jonah style crazy conspiracy
theorist on the news while this whole thing is happening.
So you've got everything about Roberts being reported. I want
crazy Ed Harris like on the news, like they could
put him up on because they show CNN quite a lot, right,

(22:27):
Like he could be like a guest on CNN as
like an Alex Jones type conspiracy theorist, but like debunking
all the stuff of Robert being guilty. Oh I love that.
I think it'd be awesome. Maybe it's so much fun.
So he'd be actually the right, he'd be in the right,
being the good guy.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
He'd be a good guy like that. But you think
he's he's nuts, right, absolutely? Okay, like that that's going
like that? Jarviy how about you want to go you
want me to go.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I got one. It's all right. It's a small role,
but I feel like at that time, I think he
was kind of, let's say, the same caliber actor. Gabriel
burn plays fake.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Brill, fake brill, okay, okay, and I.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Feel that's also a role where he has to be like,
like very convincing, very I feel like Gabriel Gabriel Burne
has more of his softer side compared to that Harris,
so he could be the better sort of fake brill.
I like that. I can go that it has to
be a surprise cameo, Like you don't know that he's credited, right?

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Oh? Absolutely, I think Gabriel Burne was not credited. I
believe it was.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh he was, he was. I remember this. I just
watched Nymy of the State, and I was like, oh,
Gabriel Burne, I had no idea it was in this,
and then he just pops up.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
It was Seth Green that was uncredited. That's true.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Who I knew somebody was on credit. I couldn't remember
who was. Though my answer might be boring, I'm not
gonna lie, but to me, if there was a weakness
of sorts in this film, and I mean state.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Much, I love him and other things.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
I replaced John Vayne Harpy as the villain. He's very
one note he's also he's a little soft. Yeah, he's
a little soft. It's that kind of like he's not
very intimidating, like Ed would play somebody intimidating as hell
as the villain, and you actually be scared of him,
like John, but you're like he's relying everybody else to

(24:18):
be intimidating or scary like his people hunt this guy
down when it comes down to John actually getting in
the thing, and you're like, this guy's kind of nothing.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
He's not bad. Ed I would have that intensity and
Will Smith Will Smith with lost, let's put it that way.
He would lost easily. I love how just for recasting
the role means we changed the entire story.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Ye which one wins?

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Now, Hey, I like it. I like it all right.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
That's that's our recast round. We did not do a
public defender this week. I got I forgot to do
that myself. I forgot to think about it. I'm not
gonna lie I I started doing like, oh well, look
at that for a bunk defender. So next time we've
got to remember to do a public Defenders. You like
that segment, but unless unless you guys have one off
the top of their head that you want to throw
out there.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
No no, no, no, no, all right, all right, that's right,
all right, that's fine. You know what we could do
it right now? The Ed Harris role.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
You'd see Gene Happening play. Let's do a public Defender recast?
Didn't Cheane Happman in Ned Harris role?

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Would you do that? A guy from me abyss? He
put she happened as bud Abyss. That's a good thought.
That's a good thought. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I mean just Jean went like pressing, like wake up,
just leading this ship? Yeah, you know I would do
It's not a film. A film Gene happened. He's a little,
he's a little all the time. But so it's always
actually sways a Gene happened as the man in black
from Westworld.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
M Yeah, I see him. Yeah, he looks good in
a cowboy hat.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
He does very I know a little inspire mine forgiven
in my mind. But you could handled that role, I
think in a way. Cool. I like that you got one, JARRYM.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well fuck it, I just wanted because there I mean,
Gene Hackman could pull it off. I watch him as
uh General Hummel.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
It's a little sacarletus, but I understand it, and I panic,
But what's the quart from fucking Winnessogia, you're out aligned?
He allowed, absolutely, So all right, let's get into the
actual trial and Alchemis and Tigers enemy state some interesting
backgrounds from both that I looked up.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
I kind of wanted to know it.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Uh, One thing I forgotten I did not know. I
should have known. I should I think I did know,
but forgot that Quentin Tarantino did an uncredited rewrite or
not really he pashed up the script and everything else,
which makes a whole lot of sense because quite frankly,
when Denzel Washington is talking about the Kirby Silver Surfer,
that's seems so out of place compared to like the
rest of the movie and like, but that's a Quentin

(27:04):
Tarantino moment for sure. I think the pop culture reference
something this is Star Trek references to. I think there's
definitively had to been in Quentin Tarantino.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
So that I remember.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
But the other conversation I did want to have kind
of leads back to our PJ. Campbell's pushing of the
Enemy of the State versus the conversation. Yeah, I mean,
because cosation is a sequel to the conversation. It's like,
it's like mostly it's like you can call it the
spiritual sequels since they're not like the same name. But
let's be honest, like they actually use the young Grill's photo.

(27:38):
The Enemy of the State is from the conversation. It's
the character of the conversation. It's the actual photo from
the character. They actually wear the same ring coat his
character were the same ringcoat in the movies. And the workshop,
like Brill's workshop is exactly the same as Henry calls
workshop in conversation. So really I need to say movies

(28:00):
about spying. That's exactly true. So you're right in a way,
it's like almost like an unconfirmed seagull, but enough that
people noticed it, and I've talked about it and brought
it up, So it would have been kind of cool
to do any State of the Conversation for that aspect
as well. But I just thought that was very fascinating
for me. But the other bits and pieces that were fascinating,

(28:21):
though considered for the Will Smith role, Bel Gibson and
Tom Cruise TC legend considered for the Will Smith role.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
I feel I feel like Will Smith is just right
for this one.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
You have a man running through a city and you
want to pick Will Smith over Tom Cruise.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
There's some issue with I don't know that I kind
of like having Will Smith in this one.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
I will I will say Tom Cruise would be the
better runner, but Will Smith is definitely the better every
man kind of person in this role. A little more
of the better every man. Tom Cruise is too TC
legend to be and movie.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Maybe maybe I kind.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Of think they chose right with Bill Smith, who chose
the role because he wanted to work with Gene Hackman,
not chocking, but Gene Hackman also wasn't the original brill
Parly consideration is considered funny enough given our previous class
action involved in Crimson Tide. John Connery was actually considered
another part of brill At one. There's a lot of

(29:26):
weird connectivity going on in these the whole episode.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
It couldn't be that the Sun directors love using the
same act. That could be part of it as well.
You never know, that could be part of it.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
So but it's an enemy of the state. Did feel
very Michael Baige, Yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Did feel Michael bay over over over scott It didn't
feel as scott.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
As the films, for sure, I'll give you that.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I would liken it to maybe to deja vu in
terms of like as far as like feeling Scottish, you
know that little Scottish Scottishish scholars scrap. But let's get
into our categories. We have five of them to talk
about today. We have the better hacking performance, We got

(30:08):
the better ensemble cast because both films have a very
surprisingly breast, there's a large supporting roles that people know
these actors, better concept of the film, better resolution of
the film, and then fist pumps and behind.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
The scenes action.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
We thought about doing better score instead of better fist pumps,
but after conversation we kind of thought the score was
a fine category, but perhaps fist one might be better
suited to the actual What are we going to talk about?
How everyone rips off hand Zemer these days? Han Zimmer
rips off Hansimmer, yes, pretty much that there.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Is no better composer to rip off from her, so
he just rips off from himself.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I mean it makes sense, Kody, don't even engage in it.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Don't don't take the bait, Come on, take it.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Dying, Dying, Eden, Dying, don't do it.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Was supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
We both know he's wrong.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
All I.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
All I have to say is I really got to
go back to our last episode. I think I had
to clip it out because there was a moment where
Jarvey admitted it. And we're gonna bring that video over here,
so every time this happened, I'm just gonna play the video.
All right, let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Round one. The better Hackman performance. Very different roles.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Being played, obviously, you've got you happened in Crimson Tide,
playing a well decorated veteran general. Is he a general's
admiral admiral?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Right, No, he's not an admiral's captain, captain, captain.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Of the ship, commanding officer of the ship. And in
Eny of the State, he plays Edward Lyle Brill, a
former government agent who was into spy and tapping in
wire surveillance and all that kind of jazzy stuff. Very
roll for sure, Jarvey. I'll start with you on this one.
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, there, this is kind of an unfair one because
with Crimson tied. He's he has a meteor role. I mean,
it is p Hackman. I feel like the script is
just catered perfectly for his delivery. He has gravitas, he
has wisdom, but also there's like hubris and cheekiness there,

(32:25):
and they like come through at these really great moments
where he starts demeaning Denzel and everything. In Enemy of
the State, it's a more subtle Hackman and he almost
kind of really plays it down, like almost like too subtle,
but it still works because it's Hackman. So he could

(32:46):
have gone like because it's it's a role that you
can go really eccentric with. You could go like the
weirdo type. He's like closed off. He has some you know,
he's on the spectrum or something. It's just you can
go crazy on this one, and he doesn't. So as
much as I like Enemy, it is subtle. It's a
smaller role, but you can't go against Ramsey. It's just

(33:08):
for me, that's Hackman's greatest performance, and that's that's for
a reason. I mean, he's he's right on the line
of not crossing to a hero or a villain, and
that's not the goal here. And it's just it's like
a perfect dance that Hackman is doing in that movie,
and it's just sublime.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
I find it interesting that you say and the state
is subtle because I actually thought he was playing along
the lines of what you said. He didn't, I mean,
he didn't go all in on it, but there definitely
was a lot more, Especially when you compare him to
Crimson Tide, You're definitely a lot more eccentric. There's definitely
to me, he's a lot more. He had some moments

(33:48):
of being specter me potentially.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
For me, I don't know. I feel like it seems
like he would have, but he doesn't grievely because I
just I watched that movie yesterday and I'm like, there
are interesting moments though with hack when and uh As
Braill where he's My favorite moments of his is when
he's pretty much like shutting out Will Smith. He's like
not dealing with He's closing the door, right, and he's

(34:11):
almost like it's like the door is closed, it's like
open up and you see, like there's so much going
and he's like thinking, should I fucking open the door?
You don't see it, but you just feel it. There's
like computing paranoia is those those moments are really good.
Paranoia is there's.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
So yeah, no see I saw those moments. To me,
that's It's funny. We had two different views of this because,
like I really I watched it not batly. I watched
like about a week ago, a little bit less, and
I just watched that. I watched his eyes all the time.
His eyes were very engaged in this movie, because he
did see everything in his eyes, but the unhidredness was
his eyes, like it was a controlled uningeness. I guess
I could see that. I can see the argument, but

(34:50):
his paranoia was like palpable. It's like when he was
having and like he had. He's a good obviously, he's
a good man. He has like the best interest in
already wants to but he's also kind of over it,
and he's also kind of he's paranoid about what the
government does, and rightfully so, because he was involved with
the exact stuff that's going on. He's just like that
goes through his mind like almost like it feels like
it's going he's running his miles. His mind is running

(35:11):
a thousand miles a minute. It's like all over the place.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
What do I do?

Speaker 3 (35:14):
I want to do the right thing, but I can't
do the right thing. I gotta I gotta leave this
all alone. Oh my god, Oh my god. Ah, And
it just almost explodes the time. But he does keep
it together also a lot of the times. So I
get what you're saying. I still think a little more
in hints than you.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Think it is.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
But could you really put it up against Ramsey. Well,
that's like there's like general Hummel and then there's Ramsey's
pretty close.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
I mean, I will say that Haapman is a great
job with Ramsey in terms of he plays like he
leaves enough on the table that you can kind of
read into him a little bit. You don't always quite
know if he's a good guy or a.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Bad guy exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
There is a lot to that delivery.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
He straddles that line. He's like almost racist, maybe not quite.
He definitely has some there's some racism there, but like he.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Kind of I mean to the conversation about the horses.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Right exactly, but he hasn't got to be humor about
it too, And he's kind of like so it's just
like acceptance but not quite almost Like I'm not used
to this. I'm old school It's new to me, but
I do appreciate talent and when pite people will like
do their when they are like like because Denzel obviously
makes the hard calls, he actually respects that whether or
not he's right, that whole thing, whether you're right or wrong,

(36:32):
right or is wrong. Very proud man, absolutely very proud man.
But because of kind of okay, will you're getting into
the resolutional events. I won't go too far into it,
but like, he does have that moment of like he's
able to pull back and show what a true character is.
There's no black and white here. It's a very vague antagonist.

(36:52):
Definitely not a must testing villain, which would make.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
This movie a lot worse.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
I think I think this movie would be so awful
if he was a must testiory now swawful, but it
would not be You wouldn't be talked about the way
we were talking about it if we had the mustache
trolling side. It happened, But you're not wrong. I do
loved happening in Enemy of the State. I think he's
probably easily the best thing about Enemy the State. But
I do agree that putting up against this particular role

(37:18):
is kind of a slam dunk for Crimson died for me.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Add, it's up to you on this one. What do
you think There's a reason that after Gene Hackman passed
everyone was sharing his role as Captain Ramsey in Crimson Tide.
That was the one that everyone was sharing because that
is the best one. I actually kind of agree with
Jabi on this one that when I'm because I watched
both of them back to back yesterday Enemy of the State,

(37:44):
I had moments where I really enjoyed Gene Hackman Crimson
tied the entire time. I don't know if maybe it's
just because I've just finished that finally finished watching all
the Game of Throns, but characters named Ramsey just seems
to pissed me off. But the whole, the whole time,
from the start of the film right to the finish,

(38:08):
you slowly start to see his true colors start to
come through. When they have that first conversation about the
philosophy of Wall, which, by the way, that I'm going
to bring up again later. It was an incredible scene
to me, Like we always go back to the scene
in Inglorious Bastards at the start with where they're sitting
across the table from each other. We need to start
looking at Crimson tied for that as well. But then

(38:31):
there's the moment where Denzel's like, the guys are sitting
there on edge and he just grabs them the communicator
and just goes So the exoways told me that you
are how did you put it on edge? On edge?
And you're just like you you are, just like you're

(38:53):
you're annoying. I get. At first, you think like he's
like Vigo's character says, he's just a hard ass, and
you start thinking that. At first, she's just like, look,
it's a time of war. Everything's tense. Someone's got to
play that role with being the hard ass. But then
you just slowly like, oh no, you're a dick. And
then it gets to that bit at the end where
they he and it's such a brilliant callback because they

(39:15):
have the conversation when he's getting recruited, when Denzel's getting
recruited in the office about the horses, and then he
starts he brings it back up again and he's like, yeah,
you know, these stallions are white from Portugal, and the
Denzel just calmly retorts, He's just like, Noah, they're black
and they're from Spain, born black, They're born black. That's

(39:37):
my favorite.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
One of one of the best lines of the dialogue
was Ramdy saying that you're right about the horses.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I pushed back a little bit real quick, man, before
you do, I just wanted to add one more thing.
It started to slowly add up for me, like not
to speak on like say, any anyone from the South,
but the fact that the ship is called the alb
Amma and he's having that conversation kind of made me think.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Hmmm, that's part of the of the mystery of another
mystery of that part of the whole angle.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Of ad.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
And I want to push back a little bit about
the dick moments, I will say, because I get where
you're coming from, and I think he begins one way,
he goes a little harder, and you kind of do go.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Oh, he is kind of a dick.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
But I think there's moments at the end where you
kind of after everything is all said and done, when
you look back, you go Dick really just conflicting styles
of management that he is trying to maintain his control over.
He's trying to teach his younger upstart how he runs
things and does he do it harshly at times, but

(40:49):
there's times where he's actually.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Right to do so.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
In terms of if you're going to go buy this
book that they've been they've been living by for the
longest time, is it always a right book?

Speaker 1 (40:57):
No?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Probably not, and his Denzel, actually you're right about things. Absolutely,
we learn he is in a way, but his most
dickish moments are usually ones that are less about being
He's not being a dick for dick being a dick
saying it's not like I'm a dick. He is just
this is how he has to maintain control and how
he's how he's had control and what in his mind.

(41:19):
If you don't have full like the captain doesn't have
full control of his nap, then he's failing. And so
he's got to take control, no matter how it is,
gonn he has to be a dick to do it.
To get his point across. He's gonna be because I mean,
he is a deck It's kind of a slight still different,
I think.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
But that comes up when you learn about, you know,
his marriage falling apart. Oh he's got is that rat
dog of his in the control and the command of
his ship, like and I have a Jack Russell, so
I took offense to that line. It's it is kind
of like he if he loses command of the ship,
not only like, but not only does he lose comand

(41:55):
of this ship, it gets taken away from him by
a guy who's never been anywhere combat, Like he's just
some snot nose punk, right, and he's just like, you
have no experience and you're coming in and you're taking
command of my ship. Right, you are taking the last
thing that I have that defined me. And not only that,

(42:16):
but his crew also because his crew is here, you're
taking my man. You're going in here. We are a
family on this ship. Obviously we are.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
We are the Roal Chide whatever were You're doing everything,
and you're gonna come in here and tell me I'm
doing things wrong, that I'm doing things wrong for my family.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
We're doing things wrong. Fuck you and he but he.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Also kind of feels that Denzel has the sort of
intelligence to challenge him. So when when when he's like
making his point like we shouldn't do that, we shouldn't
do it, he just goes, now, shut the fuck up,
Like you feel like, okay, he's unhinged because he feels
Denzel is actually coming through and they're starting to listen
to him, so he quickly has to him back. Yeah,

(42:56):
squash him exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
He has to do that.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
We have to do and but mainly why because he's
doing it in front of them too. Exact, it would
have been difference if it was en closed doors. He
would react differently. You would at this point react differently
when you're doing it in front you're you're you're ignoring
the rules of engagement, noring the rules of of private
propriety in that situation. That's the old school thing. Sure,

(43:21):
I am willing to take your ideas, but you do
not question me in front of my men.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's it. End of story. So, I mean, it's interesting.
He's like, if the if we can't, if we're not
afforded privacy, then you shut.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Your fucking mouth, right, Yeah, absolutely, really he can't win
either way your head, that's true.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
So so here we here hierarchies in place.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Absolutely, that's what's got to happen in the time of
the war in a way. So well, there you go.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
That's the end of that round, which is pretty clearly
up there for CRIMTONI and our on our end, people
to chat or people watching us afterwards in the comments,
let us.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Know what you think is the which is the better
happened role? Is it? Is it the Captain Captain Ramsey?
Or is it Brill?

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Maybe give us an argument, why do you think it's brill?
Maybe we'll listen to you later on, we'll change our minds.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I doubt him.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
You never know. You never know.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
And let's move on to our next topic, to just
do jure we have the better ensemble cast. Let's listen
names you can, but let's list the names. Let's listen
names up. This does include, by the way, we actually
at one point we had three acting categories. At one
point it was better Happened Better like co star den
zelivers as Will Smith, but we kind of decided not

(44:30):
to do that and we kind of wrapped them up
into this category.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Oh you did? You did drop them up here?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I did. I wrapped them up here. That's part of it.
Do you know did you not?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Because I can, I can argue I didn't, But that's
that doesn'tgree we change.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Okay, we have Denzel Washington, we have Vigo Mortenson, George Dezunza.
We have who might you might know that, not know
that name, but the actor. The actor. You have Danny Nucci,
you have Rick Schroeder, you have Steve Zon, you have
Ryan Philippe, you have James Gandalf. You have the actor
who I don't remember. I only know him his room

(45:04):
for Major League two? Uh? Is the catcher in Major
League two? Is that that could come? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:11):
He's no, no, no, not him, not Legal Conn. I'm sorry,
I forget that. I gotta remember what his name. And
he's actually not in the cast list.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
He was the he was the guy.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
No, Danny Ucci has that the fight with the guy
got about the silver Surfer.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, that's part car No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
it's not it's he. It's the other guy. His name
is Eric Bruscott. That's his name. Look, that's him.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
He's the guy who gets punched in the face. And okay,
that's but again I like him. I know him very
well from from Ugly Too. But he is in that
as well. Jason Robards even gets an uncredited, uh cameo
as Admiral Anderson. A lot of people, a lot of
people in that film. And then let's look at Enemy
of the States that besides Will Smith, you have Will Smith,

(45:59):
but then beyond Will John Voight, Reginita King, classic one
of the classes actresses of all time, Jake Busey, Barry Pepper,
Scott Kahn, Jason Lee, Seth Green, Jamie Kennedy, Jack Black,
Gabriel Byrne, Lisa Bonnet, and it's just like Jason Robarts
is actually in this one as well. Tom Size more

(46:21):
uncredited appearance, Philip Baker Hall makes an uncredited appearance. There's
a this is a just a crazy quantity alone. You're like,
holy And if you are a white guy in in
the late nineties, older or younger, you were probably in
this movie at some point.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I well, I wasn't like, I wasn't white guy in
the late nineties.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
If you were in Hollywood, you would have been in
this movie, I think at that point. So, Mattie, you
wanted to go first about the sin Donald cast, So
I'll let you argue this one was.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Very, very very easy to me. Like this this one,
I thought that there's no question, no shoutow. Now it's
Crimson Tide. Wow. Okay, just for the names that you
you've listed there, obviously there is the Sopranos connection between
Gandalfini and brung Gui, which as a massive, massive, massive
Sopranos fan, that was very pleasing to me. Cool man

(47:14):
like I love Lisa Bonet, I like I love Jack
Black is funny. Seth Green's cool. Jason Lee is an
okay skateboarder. But like every other Will Smith movie, the
ensemble supports Will fucking Smith Crimson Tide the entire movie.

(47:37):
Everyone plays their part. They serviced the whole crew and
the whole story, and they fuel the tension going on.
Is WeGo gonna pull the pull the key from the
safe because he gave them the key to the safe
to the guns? Is he gonna unlock it for the nukes?
Gandalfini Ship weasel, complete ship weasel. Bob Right.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Cobb knows that he probably didn't want to go against
Captain Ramsey. He even says, thank me, fuck you. I
only did it because it was by the book and
he shouldn't have done it. It was improper. Everyone fuels
the story.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Spoiler alert real.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Quick, everyone's a character, a full character, right.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Spoiler alert That co that cod thing was actually one
of my fist bumps. So go ahead ahead and cond.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
But enemy of the state. They're all there just to
prop up Will Smith, like every like Men in Black, Wild, Wildwist,
literally every fucking film Will Smith is in. Right, You're
not wrong. I will actually through out there.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
It is a quantity versus quality thing, and the quantity
is definitely an enemy that has mistake because there's just
so many named actors and stuff. But I do think
in a way that does kind of is detrimental when
you look at it a little closer, because I always
feel like some of those characters are so similar. Learn
that like like for a time Stample, you have Jamie
Kennedy and Seth Free and Jack Black, which are pretty
much all playing the same kind of role, similar role in.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
The Black does his record us off the screen?

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Would it have been better serve to have been one
of those actors to play that that role like the
Moone focus point. Similarly, you have the other white boy
muscle people like Scott Kan, Jake Beusey, and Barry Pepper,
similar type of role almost like maybe two of them
instead of three, and like three is like why why
is the third guy even?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
But that kind of worked because they had the same
hair that like, yeah, we're like ops. You know, they
they're like the goons. That was the kind of comedic
reason for that.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I guess it does work. You could have Frolf lungern
and is one of them. Absolutely, But the word any
of the state does win is obviously. I mean, I can't.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
I can't blames in time because of the story, but
we don't have no women in Crimson Tide at all,
and having Regina King in and the state Regina King
really humanizes Will Smith's character.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
The humanizes we have to talk about her character. Was
she a good movie wife? Oh? I might get in
trouble here, but I found her incredibly annoying, really incredibly annoying.
So I was like, I know she's doing the role,
just what she's supposed to do. She's an amazing actress.

(50:20):
I don't know, like she was just mm oh. I
was like, I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
I think she was. I think she was as well.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
I think that she I can't understand because at first
she's not very supportive. But you have to understand why
she's not very supportive though. I mean, the whole idea
is like, yeah, and he's talking. All of a sudden,
the pictures come up. Not only about him and like
being unfaithful. He's with Lisa Bonnet again after everything, and
then the payers are telling him that there's a like
we had an argument, and then the pictures the next

(50:52):
day where he's with her again and he's like makes.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
But she at the end of the day, what does
she do?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
She still ends up supporting him and believes in him
at the end, no matter like, even despite all the
evidence to the contrary, she eventually gets to the point
where she does support him.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
It's kind of a powerful moment.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
I thought that she could have gone all the way
into that fu until the whole movie was over, and
then she they re reconcile before the movie's over.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
She does reconcile with him, and it's kind of a
powerful moment. I thought.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
So, I actually think, at least see that Regina King
plays that well. I don't know if anybody el could
have played that as well.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
She plays it well. She plays it well. But when
we're talking about movie wives, so yeah, but that you're
making good points though you're making good point because he
did cheat, he's getting them in trouble, Like she's just yeah,
I don't know, but something rubbed me the wrong way.
I don't know, and I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Anytime I see Zoe Kravitz now I just see him
on Yeah, well you're not wrong. When I watched this movie,
I was like, oh my god, that's like that.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
She looks just like Zoe doesn't is actually Zoe could
actually they do a remake Amendment in the State, and
so he could slide right into that role like that is.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Like prime genetics. That and Lenny Kravitz. Yes, perfect are
perfect X for sure. Yeah. So okay, well jarviy, you
didn't I did actually get my answer, did I? Ah?

Speaker 3 (52:07):
God, I didn't give my answer because I do. I
went I was extolling the virtues of the enemy state.
But at the end of the day, I'm still gonna
go Crimson tid. Also, I think because of the quantity
does overwhelm the quality because of like I said, because
there's just too many. If they were condensed, they could
have had more time to uh to expand on the
role and have more meteor roles. Because of that, because

(52:29):
there's so many other characters in there that everybody gets
like their line, so like instead of having one role,
you have Jack Black, Steth Greed and Jamie Kennedy also
sharing the same kind.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Of roles and tide.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Everybody does play their roles specifically. And I want to
shout out George is Undi is one of my favorite
parts in the whole movie. His role as cop was perfect.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
And yeah, sorry that James Gandolfini is the one character
in both movies I think that you just want to
punch in the fucking throat.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, Like he is just the guy that was both
movies is an enemy as well, you know what.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
I'm saying, Like all of the two movies like one character,
like I want to punch John Boy a little bit,
and I kind of want to want to Jamie Kennedy
and I want to He's right, but comparatively, James gelf
You just like you're like, oh god, I want to
punch you more.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
It is very satisfying, spoiler out watching John Boy get
shot in.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Any movie, you know, the same time, when it comes
down to also, I'm throwing together, you're throwing Denzel up
against Will Smith.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
I like Will Smith.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I think he's actually a very good actor. He's had
some great performance in his career. Is Denzel Evan Washington
I mean that's he's like one of the premiere of
all time actors. It's hard to put anybody up against
Denzel and walk Away. But he also have some other work,
Danny Mucci under rigid roles as as petty officer Ganny
Or that also another rock connection. By the way, Danny

(54:02):
Ucci in there as the guy who gets killed on
the ladder in the shower rooms.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
He's like, don't go, don't go.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
He has a great line cameramer light up the time,
my head done blank as a whole. Could he define
this this mission? And he's like, yeah, the two bit
of vx gas is sird. Every time I was talking
about Nicholas Cage, It's it's a great lay little thrown there.
I aways think of actually Andrew Guy. I think Andrew
Guy would have been great in that role. Yeah, are
friend of the podcast there, but some other again, great

(54:33):
Escape characters throughout. Vigil Mortensen wonderful actor, wonderful moments, webs,
powerful moments, sweaty Vego, sweaty sweaty ego for sure. So yeah,
I gotta get a circumson title.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
So yeah, this is everything you said I agree with.
But this was the tightest category for me, this is
where I was. I felt like this this probably he's
a coin toss just because of the volume of people
and and I actually I do enjoy all the big
names in Enemy, even though that they are not as

(55:07):
fleshed out. I feel like I got a lot of
laughs from Jack Black and Seth Green's fucking pink red hair,
Like what the fuck? But that was so enjoyable that
the moment where uh so I'm I'm kind of on
the level of pettiness, where someone takes my stuff, I
fucking go ape ship, so heat al Pacino, the TV

(55:30):
moment he's like, you don't get to watch my motherfucking TV.
I felt like when Will Smith got on the got
in that truck, he should have just gone the same way.
That is my motherfucking blender, not you get to blend ship.
I was like, that's worthy of a slap.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Give a slap, that's right. Treat those guys like you
treat Chris Rock. Okay, So it's it's three there to.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Go, It's it's gotta it's got to be Crimson. For
the fact that every character, as small as they are,
have a very specific role to play and they all deliver.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
HM there fair enough.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
All right, there we go with guys in chat again
and we're in the after effects. Let us know what
you think about what ensemble cast is your choice. We're
gonna move on now to better concept. But a concept
movie of the movie basically the structure of the movie,
the pitch, the basically it's like the pitch of the
movie and how it's how it's how it's enacted afterwards. Jarva,

(56:33):
if you want to start this one correct.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yes, this is easily Crimson for me. And this is
Crimson Tide is a contained, almost action movie which doesn't
really have a villain, doesn't have a hero, doesn't have
like enemies or heroes at all. Like it's low key

(56:56):
talkie but super suspenseful, feel bombastic Enemy of the State.
I do love Enemy of the State. I think it's
very miclbasion the best way possible. I mean, there's there's
a lot of nineties stylized action. The chase sequences are
freaking relentless and they're awesome. But you feel that Enemy

(57:18):
of the State is doing a lot. It's like trying
a lot. It's doing a lot and it's succeeding. But
if you're putting it up against Crimson, which has just deep,
powerful moments in a low key environment, well not low
key environment, but does it almost no action at all,
and delivers one of the most suspenseful thrillers or action

(57:41):
movies ever. I mean, this is this is the battle
of concepts, and it's this is why I feel like
Enemy of the State has no chance against Crimson, because
Crimson just does everything better that without using any of
the big things that Enemy of the State is even doing.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
I don't agree there.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
I'll say that they both are movies that at the
end of the day you do go out of the theater,
go out of your living room wherever you're watching it,
and you do think about it afterwards, because there's no
necessarily right and wrong, and in the State you do
have a wrong. But there is that overall concept. There's that,

(58:21):
so we still talk about.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
They still are trying to do it for the greater good.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
It is the greater good.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
So like what is it's personal versus private privacy versus
personal security versus It's an argument that's today going strong
at this pint.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Crimson tied again.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Same thing.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Like you you're put into Denzel's, the audience is put
into Denzel's role. He's the guy that you're supposed to
be rooting for for the most part anymore, and he
probably at the end of the day. I think almost
everybody agrees with what Denzel did and his choices, but
you can't. You could completely see the other side of
WHI Jinhaffan is doing because he has strong arguments as well,

(59:01):
And so that concept alone and putting it into a
claustrophobic space like a submarine helps that tension grow evenmore
because it's not a place where anybody can just kind
of run away. I get them to State, They're all
over the goddamn city because like it's left right center,
they're going up, buildings, down, build it like all over
the places kind of place, and they can find places
to breathe. You can't really find a place to breathe

(59:22):
in Crimson Tide. Even when you have some downtime. It's
all about like where the where's the other guys? Now?

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Where's that? We've got to figure out where I got it?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
And it's like a very height the tightly pace thriller,
and of State, though does have a lot of cool
things to it. I do think the end of the
State is not as smart as it thinks it is,
or not as smart as it wants to be. There's
a lot of like kind of catchphrases and keywords like that.
I don't even know if the script is understood. Whe
they're saying a lot of a gobbledygook talk about certainly

(59:52):
technical things and everything else. That's kind of funny watching
technical know how like now compared to that's a definitely
dated technology.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Also, they enhanced thing. It's like this just enhance that picture, enhance, enhance.
There is a moment there that's just now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
You know that. I'm pretty sure he even says enhanced twice.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
And the Michael Bay thing, like there's a scene in
a hotel room with two Asian tourists that felt like
the worst of Michael Bay. Like it was it was
the best because you're like, oh my god, you cannot
do this. That's why it was also the best, like
so dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
I love that woman. I love that woman go wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
But I will say I think at the end of
the day, Crimson Tie doesn't have any faults to its
concept at this point, I really think it's not makes
faults and that's the that's what wins it off. For me,
I mean stayed great, fun, cool, but not quite as
much as I'll go Crimson time as well, Maddie my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
For me, this was this was the closest one between
the two because you have essentially Enemy of the State,
essentially telling the story of the Patriot Act. You know,
after nine to eleven and the Patriot Act was introduced,
like everything was locked down, We're all on the surveillance,
the NSA tapping everyone's phones, all this stuff. And then
you have Crimson tied where you have this crazy Russian

(01:01:18):
dictator with America, England, and France all standing off against
this conflict in Eastern Europe, with this crazy Russian dictator
called Vladimir who won't let go of his power. It's
very real, right. Both movies are very much have real
world implications. But I think I kind of got lean

(01:01:44):
into what you both are saying with Crimson type because
you have this guy, a lawyer, by the way, he's
not Special Forces, he's not a carp he's a regular guy.
He's a lawyer, and he's running rings around the NSA
all over Baltimore. It's just like, how have you not
caught this guy yet?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
He users a gun very proficiently, and they never explain why.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah, somehow like he can row a boat, okay, and
he can fire a gun like he's special Forces, like okay,
whatever that's with. It's a nineties action movie. I'm not
going to read too much into that. But you have,
like Job said, it's very claustrophobic. It's very suffocating on
that submarine. You're forced to be around these people that

(01:02:28):
you may disagree with, and when situations escalate, you can't
go running across to an industrial state on the other
side of Baltimore because you've got nowhere us good where
you're going to do jump out of the submarine and
get crushed to death. No, Like, the tensions are all around,
like everyone's base morals. You have the conversation between the two,

(01:02:48):
like I mentioned about the horses, but then you also
have that philosophical debate of what is the enemy of war?
And I think that's a conversation that's really coming to
light today. Of the end, the enemy isn't really the
other team, the other country. The enemy is actually war itself.
And that's a concept that I'm really like, Yeah, so

(01:03:10):
I think I got to give it to Crimson Tide
on this one as well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Right, you know what, I just realized the Crimson Tide
could have been titled Enemy of the State as well. Yeah,
you're not wrong, you know there is there is like
there's a hidden meaning like enemy of the State.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Okay, I see that. I could absolutely say that Enemy
the State could have been called patriot Games or patriarch.
That's true, that's true, true, that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
All right, that'll do it for a better concept again,
Guys in the shatter, guys in the viewers afterwards, let
us know in the comments or whatever. I don't know
what you think is the better concept as we move
on to our next category, better resolution. I'm gonna take
this one first, if you guys don't mind, and I
think I'm going to shock you guys. I'm going to

(01:03:56):
be the state. Why I'm going to this because here
we go, I'm gonna try to argue and defend this
because I do like the ending of Crimson Tie. However,
the whole way about Friemson Tide is a waiting game. Basically,
it's like a tense waiting game. We have to shoot
our missiles. We can't shoot our missiles to we get
our orders. We gotta shoot our missis. We can't shoot

(01:04:18):
missles getting orders resolution. We finally got our orders and
they said does to stand out and every that's part
of the resolution. That's the introduction to the resolution, and
then you have the rest of it is no one
really pays any price for anything. Backman and went Denzel
showed their respect for each other, which is good, I guess,

(01:04:42):
but nothing really changed. Like at the end of the day,
everybody has me go out the film with the same
questions you had going in.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Who's right? Who's wrong? I don't know. I mean, is
that a bad thing? Is that a good thing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I could see the argument for both. I mean I
part of it is why like it's it's open ended.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
I do like that open endedness of the discussion to
have you have that discussion, but it almost doesn't say
anything in a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Not saying anything is a little it's a little undefined
for me. Any of the state.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
We have this great sequence which you don't even like.
They have this whole conversation in the entire movie. Will
Smith has this like side plot b plot with these gangsters,
this whole maviosho kind of people like he's trying trying
to take Downie Sizemore, and you don't even like know
how that's playing in besides like being just a part

(01:05:32):
of that part of Will Smith's life at that point,
it's just like, oh, this is going on too, and
he brings it together, brings the two pieces of the
film together brilliantly and has like one problem take care
of the other problem, and even have Geene Hafferan going like, uh,
you're either incredibly stupid or at least smart to find out.

(01:05:54):
And you have this shootout and John Boyce gets shot again.
Maddie resolution, fun resolution, John, it gets shot and you
have this end day and you have the fun moment
where Will Smith where he gets exonerated, the end of
the day of the Patriot actor is shot down. Yes,
it's a temporary thing. Potentially, is it as open ends.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
A little bit?

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Maybe you have the happy moment at the end where
our Gene happened is going on to vacation. He had
that nice fun moment the other week gets into the
Will Smith TV and it's like, wish you here, baby.
It's kind of a fun ending that feels like it's
a more definitive I can see the ark the other way.
Don't get me wrong, I said there's something about it.

(01:06:34):
I kind of wanted to throw it at me to
say it's way myself.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Doesn't it feel too convenient the enemy of the State's ending.
I mean, it's like, it's like you have that thing
he sets up at the beginning of the movie. You
know it's coming back around. He's doing this Ocean's eleven
Z kind of height thingy where he's double crossing people.
Everything works out perfect. No one like Seizemore doesn't even

(01:06:57):
say They don't even find out that he's actually talking
about the other thing. It was for me, it felt
a little too cute.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
I did it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
I did appreciate. I was like, Okay, he's kind of
ropo doping us into it. It's cool, it's cool, but
he was kind of too cute and kind of ended
like in like every other nineties action thrower. The exact
reason why you said that Crimson Tide doesn't really have
a result, doesn't really have a definitive ending right or wrong,
is exactly why it's so damn good. There is a problem.

(01:07:26):
There's a fault in the military structure that hasn't been
addressed at least in the movie. I'm guessing it's different now.
I mean it has to be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
At the end. It had like the notes on the
screens about nowadays.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
The president now the president biometrically and and you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Have sides both are right, both are wrong, and it
could go badly, it could not work because you're not
finishing it with the good guys sort of winning. You're
leaving it up in the air. But it's still so
satisfying the fact that they have their final For me,
the resolution is at the very end where Heckman just
walks off with his Jack Russell, and it's just perfect.

(01:08:14):
It doesn't need a resolution, and like, it doesn't need
a decision which which is right, which is wrong? It's
just and that is way more unique and original to me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Is it unique and original or is it gutless to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Not have a definitely not gutless who.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Does not have a statement on whether you think it's
right or wrong. I'm not saying definitively, and that's like
it is. It is, but it's definitely something that goes
in your mind. It's like, well, shouldn't an artist have
a view on this? This is your story? Didn't an
artist say like kind of have some kind of commentary
on what they think the right answer is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
They kind of they kind of did give us the
right answer. And the fact that just Denzel gambled right,
so you kind of had that, you had that blue
side versus red side, like even they used they used
the lighting there, so they kind of did give us
was right who was wrong. But at the very end
there's still debating and the the real enemies war itself

(01:09:15):
in the movie, that's one of the biggest concepts. So
I feel like there kind of is the enemy is war?

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Okay, Maddie way in, I agree with Paul. I feel
like Captain Ramsey got let off way too lightly. He
was allowed to retire after he nearly started World War three,

(01:09:47):
came that close to starting World War three, and you
are going to allow him to go out, you know,
honorably discharged. Fuck that, brother. I'm taking dishonorable, dishonor on you,
dishonor in your whole family.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
The only reason why Denzel wasn't dishonorably discharged is because
he gambled right. He didn't do right. He gambled right right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
He gambled right but looking at the morality of the
decision bomb a country and kill millions of people, don't
bomb the country, don't kill billions of people.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
But this is not a civilian choice. This is a
military choice. You have rules for a reason. He just
followed the rules.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
I mean, gene happened.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Tod go by the book exactly, although although it was wrong,
he was very wrong, and there isn't a gray to
the book.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
That so it's not a red and black and white
book because the order, since the order did come in
and that order says is not an order. It's not
an order.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
But at the same time, when you know there's an
order there, that's a change and you have sometimes when
it's a big This isn't like bombing. This isn't like
I saw to another This isn't like attacking a one
on one stuf. This is a place where sometimes the
book is made to be slow down and let's make
sure we get this right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
God, this is why that movie is so great. Listen
to us talk about it. This is this is why
the resolution.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
My problem with the resolution was that he was allowed
to just ride off into the sunset after almost causing
World War Three, like he didn't get dishonorably discharge nothing
like he essentially got a slap on the wrist and
told don't do that again, or you might that was Denzel,
but like Hackman was like, no, well, we'll let you
retire better. I've served enough, you know, didn't have to

(01:11:38):
really learn a lesson. That's the question that happen. Yeah,
he seemed like he didn't change, Like he seemed like
he would have done the same thing. And he said, like,
you're right about the horses, And the reason that I'm
picking enemy estate is I love me is Scooby Doo ending.
Everything just so happens to line up perfectly for them, Like,

(01:11:59):
and you're just like, but how did Brill even know
about the gangsters? How did like you would think that
the head of the NSA, having tapped his phone and everything,
would know that he's working a case against these gangsters. Right,
but fuck it, let's throw that all out of the
window just so we can watch John Wait get shot.

(01:12:20):
I'm happy. I'll take that ending all day, all day,
and then it is cute. I'll give a drive with that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
It is a cute ending, but it is a very
cute ending and also a cute film. Oceans elevens are
very cute film. I love it from being that cute.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
I can't, in good conscience compare it to Oceans eleven
because Oceans eleven is a masterpiece. I can't. I just
can't a good conscience. I just mean in terms of
like moving Piecessay. Yeah, yeah, it's very much a Scooby
Doo ending, right, But yeah, I gotta give it to
Crimson Tide.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Crimson.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
Oh no, sorry, I undertend I'm marking it down. I was,
I will say, because Joby almost did have me changing
my pick. It was almost like last last month when
I helped Jobby change his pick, right right, Bobby came
that close. But no, it's it's enemy of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
This thing, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
I will say that I get your points, and honestly,
I totally understand your points too, and I think there's
an argument to be made, and I on another day,
maybe I would switch my I would change my idea potentially,
but for now I'll give it to that in state,
and at least for this show. Everybody else in the chat,
I'm curious what you are, but the viewers, what do

(01:13:41):
you have to say? Which one is the right one?
For you before we go on to our last bit here,
which was the best score, which we decided last mint
to change to better fist pump moments. I'll take the lead.
I guess called this put moments. I already mentioned the
aforementioned one. The Cob moment for me was probably the
best fist pump moment. When Cobb takes that moment and

(01:14:04):
he because the whole crew is Geene Happens crew, it's
Ramsey's crew. Denzel has no real friends there except for
webs wherever you way you go. At the end of
the day, right at the get go, we have a
situation where he when Denzel Washington takes command of the
ship and orders them to arrest Ramsey, and Cobb stops

(01:14:28):
and does and you can tell right away he's got
this thought in his head. You assume that everybody's going
to back Gene Happen because it's his crew, and he
has him arrested. At that moment that Mattie said, when
he says that and he's like thank you, thank you,
fuck you, it's like, oh okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
All right, there we go. There, that's a great moment
fist pump moment for sure. Fistpu moment.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
We go having his moments of doubt and moments of doubt,
and then happened, pulling the gun on him, pulling the
gun on on the guy next to him, and you're like,
is he gonna do it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Is he gonna do it? No, he doesn't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
That was kind of small fist punt from you, kind
of like I don't want Ramsey to take that, like
that step beyond crazy. You know, that step beyond like
what was totally insane. You still want to roof him
a little bit. And that's the key moment for me
in the in the whole film.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
And then of course the ending, the ending is done
very not the resolution part, but the when the moment
comes with the final orders, when he the the tension
is so palpable, it's a little bit way too aldraumatic,
but he has order. The hands look sort of like
it's swear that's felt like he's looking at for ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Stand out. It's like, cheers a good moment.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
I the state, fun fun, fist pop moments. He action
moments were meant, why do you blow up the building?

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Because we're in a phone call and what a fucking
huge explosions like a fireball allow up the room.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
Will SP's reaction that Gene Hacker's reaction to that, he's
so paranoid. So it's like I told you, he gets
the moments about that so powerful, so fun, so many
great little moments like that. The action moments are the
better ones that the chases, Like you said, all the
chases are so like action or in Michael based ole
throughout the city running around when Jason Lee gets hit

(01:16:28):
on the bike. When you're watching that situation go down
the first time, we're like, oh that's oh you're almost
because the action, we're like, oh, wait, that's not good,
not good for our story. Then of course the final again,
the shootout when John Day gets shot. For story, yes,
it's gonna be good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
I'll take that. So I'm want to give this one.
Oh god, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
I'm talking to myself the entire time. I'm like, I
don't know what the answer is. I think End of
the State had more typical fist pump moments, like we
talk about this from moments was action raised, But there's
some big emotional moments with Crimson Tide.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I mean Crimson from start to finish is a fist pump.
Hackman is a walking fist pump. Think of the very
beginning of the movie, when they get on the submarine.
It's like Hi Bama, roll side, the speech let it
gives they go in. I mean, and the very first
dinner scene when they're just sitting around the table, Denzel

(01:17:32):
at least sort of trying to be the do goody
and just Hackman just baits him into like voicing his opinions.
I mean, it's just it's just pure gold.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
And I will also throw in there one more. It's
almost I don't even really classify as a fi pump.
I don't want else to put it. I would never
want to be on the receiving end of the look
Denzel Washington gives a ego Mortensen. Yes, after the Munich
comes back in, Daniel just walks over to him and

(01:18:05):
just gives him this look of death, that the okay
look in the eye. It is so powerful, like it
is a kind of a small like, yeah, that's my
boy right there in Denzel. Don't Denzel at that point.
So I'll give that to So I'll go with Crimson,
I look to I have to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
I don't. Who wants to do next? Mad? Do you
want to go next? This was a very very easy
one for me. Okay, only one of these movies has
a training montage on the submarine and his Crimson time discussion.
Fair enough, fair enough? So what you need, you need
and you got me. There's a good mind. That's true.

(01:18:41):
That is true. Absolutely? Uh okay, Jarvia about you done
for me?

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
The biggest, the biggest fist bump in Crimson tidday is
the entire well, first off, the horse discussion, but the
way it called me nights well, actually not because it
ends at the very end when Hackman just says, I
agree with you, right, But the moment when when they're
waiting for the order, that's like, it's the most tense scene.

(01:19:09):
They're just waiting. It's like and just Hackman goes back
to start smoking his cigar the horse you mentioned and
just brings down the tension, just starts talking to the
dude like they're in a bar, right, And it's just
it's it's perfect the way he just disarms the tension

(01:19:30):
and just flips a switch. That to me is like
the biggest fist bumping Crimson Tide. It is such a
great moment tension. Yeah, well he disarms kind of kind
of he kind of brings you in on it. The
tension is still there. It's still does to me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
In that moment he escalated from what he'side saying. I
was just like, is then, like, is he trying to
bake Denzel into returning that punch? M Maybe the way
it's I That's why I'm just like trying to play
because I didn't picture it as like him like I
guessing you mean, like his demeanor, like he's like very
early laid back in his mouth. I never I didn't

(01:20:11):
actually think of it like that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Cool, that's all right, and any midst of the state.
There is one very subtle moment, and it's my biggest
fist pump is where Will Smith is in the car,
is in the back seat, is has his son and
his friend in the front seat, and it's like talking about,
all right, I had a fight with your mom's like son,

(01:20:35):
so who won the fight? And he goes, this is
your dad, Eric, you know when I put my foot down,
that's it, kid goes mom one. I mean, it's just
anyone who's ever been in a relationship knows exactly how
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
I actually, I am glad you brought that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
I forgot about the moment until the I love that
moment and watched it and you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
That was what appear want. And then there was also
the moment at the end of that kind of got
a chuckle at me. It was like, we got a
lot of monitoring the dude kid, just turn around, guys,
are you guys talking about sex? Normal? Sleep over the
Dylan's house?

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
No more hanging out with Dylan.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Dylan so good. It's so good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
And actually another funnier part, not again, just one moment.
The whole lingerie scene is pretty funny, trying.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
What kind of a lingerie story is that? So there's
that's not where it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
You want an addresses you're looking for it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
I was I was actually watching that scene with my
girlfriend and it was just I had an earphone scene.
She was on the computer and she's like, what are
you watching? Because that's always the moments when she chimes
in is when there's like something sexy happening. And I
remember that that moment. I remember watching that movie as
a kid. I'm like, wow, lingerie stores, that's how it's got,
That's how it is in my head still. I feel

(01:21:56):
that's whole lingerie shop should be.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Is that right now? Can she hate you right now?

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
No, she's not home.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
Okay checking So in that case, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
When I put my foot down, I can talk about
whatever I want.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Yeah, Yes, she won, she won, She won, definitely won.
Uh on that note that will end the trial. It
is a pretty definitive statement. As Jarvi predicted, and as
you all predicted.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
I think overall I went Crimson.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
I just final score, Crimson Tide wins thirteen to two,
thirteen to two. But you know what, I am so
glad we did this because it got us a chance
to talk about Crimson Tide again, which I love so much.
And Gene happened and probably my favorite ten happening role. Potentially,
is there any other junior happening role that would really

(01:22:53):
top it for me?

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
I mean, Unforgiveness up there, Lex Luthor is definitely up
there in a different kind of style.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Oh what's the dumb western movie about Russell Crowe? And
like Gene Hackman is the dumb fun I mean it's
it's really fun movie, but it's oh my god, Russell
Crowe Western.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
I know talking about Quicker than.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
I think it's so good in that one as.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Well, And I would also throw out there it is
work with west Anders and Royal, the Royal ten Bombs.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
He was really great in that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
I haven't seen that one, but I keep hearing that
that is like the comedic role of his life, like
that is when he just showed a different side.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Yes, he absolutely is wonderful in that, and I do
I don't know what. The longest time, I always thought
it was Gene Wilder that was in because it's it's
more of a comedy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Totally different actor there, totally totally different wards there. I
would also be I'm gonna say it out there and
surprisingly to everybody else, there is a Gene Hackman at
Harris movie under Fire from nineteen eighty three.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
Oh it's having more astatin. I was a little kid, Nick.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
Nolty, Gene Hackman, Joanna Cassidy ed Harris about a journalist
going undercover and political thriller during the Nicaraga Revolution, And uh,
it's basically Nick Keoloty is a star. But it's a
good good and it's actually a little bit of an
atypical a Harris performance. He's actually a little I actually
think he's pretty humorous in it in a way. He's
still a military guy, but he plays it kind of humorously.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
So I do. I think it's a great.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Really, it reminds me of Spy Game. Yeah, when I
look at the pictures.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
Yeah, but yeah, I can see that. I can definitely
see that definitely makes some sense in there. So any
other happening role, Yeah, of course, Lex Luthor. We just
covered PJ and I just started our Superman run through
for too middle league tists on film. And while he's
definitely a mustache twirling villain in that as les, Luthor's
not a little selty to it. It's exactly what that

(01:25:00):
film is and it's supposed to be. So he is
the perfect seventies comic book villain is still is like
the thing that gives you the most, that's what you
watch the most. Christopher is perfectly cast and Superman no
doubt between happens. Charisma makes such a great foe to
Christopher's Superman, and I also will shout out ned Baty

(01:25:21):
as well as uz Otis. They make a great team.
Uh miss ses Smocker as well. But that that trio
actually so fun so entertaining makes me laugh every time, perfectly,
perfectly done. But somebody that we didn't even mention all
the seventies stuff like we had the conversation a signed
adventure all election. Yeah, French connection and French connection too

(01:25:45):
for that matter, they're all very good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
French connection.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
There is there is you should check it out. It
is actually pretty good to take it's from the very
following year. I did not know that the same Yeah,
directed by John Frankenheimer or nothing, nothing, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Not the very next year it was.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Three o'ell is playing the lead.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
I like good O'Neill, but I can't see how would
possibly as they go against the first two are actually
really good, so I definitely would we would go there
for sure, A lot of good. He's a he's a
phenomenal actor though Postcards from the Edge unforgiven the firm.
I forgot why Erp as the patriarch of the Irp family. Awesome,

(01:26:34):
a great rule there replacements hoosiers, I mean, guy just
he he has a home runner almost every time you
put in He's one of those actors. He's like the
Edd Harris actor for me, like you put him in
a movie you're gonna get eight damn good performance and
he's gonna raise the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Whole experience for you. So r I p tweet living legend.
I'm glad we got a chance to honor him. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
So, I don't think it will be the last time
we see a gene happened on this show.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
For sure, definitely some We already had somebody to discussions
about some other connections we're gonna do. But that's gonna
do it for us this week or this month. I
should say we back next month. I think we are pitching.
I'll talk about what we're pitching. Go behind the scenes
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
The Amateur is coming out a movie with Robbie Mallock.
Looks very fun mix very much up our Action Our
Action Wheelhouster. Also Laurence Fishburne in it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
Looks like a lot of fun and definitely a revenge
story of some kind. Also best the guy from I
always forget his name. He's such a great actor, he's all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
He's also in Lawrence Fishman.

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
No, not Lauren Swishfern. I know Laurence fishburn it's the
it's the guy here mind Hunter, Mine Hunter. Yeah, well yeah,
halt the calendar. Yes, wonderful actor and everything. He's in
not a name actor for a lot of people, but
he's phenomenally good and everything.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
So he's in that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
So we're gonna do that, and we're gonna put it
up against something Jarvy had pitched, potentially the Counted with
the Accountant Tea coming out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
I do like that idea.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
I initially pitched Death Wish the original Charles Bronson classic,
as it's kind of a similar vibe revenge of revenges
on someone for killing their wife and stuff, So what
the talk through it? I definitely do the original version,
not the Bruce Willis Reema, which was not very good,
to be honest with you, But yeah, we'll.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
We'll put our heads together and figure out what you think.

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
If you want to leave a comment below, let wait
you think would be the better one to do, I'll
take that into account for sure as well.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
That'll do it, Maddie, Working folks find you. You can
find me on all social media at Matthew Mourner. You
can find my band Mourna on all social on all
streaming platforms. You can find me here every month for
Class Action and every week for Holy snakes perfect, Richard
Eric Jarviy my friend, how can you find How can
you find you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
On Facebook and Instagram and letterbox at Richard Eric with
a K Jarvey And I'm not on X on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
You got to say out of us sorry, you know
alone on that one. I technically am still the only
post there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
I am more called go to news on the old
Blue Sky I go I go to excellently for like
news stuff that's not on popus where yet that's really
I don't really post there anymore. Blue Sky's where I
hang out abctually. I love Blue Sky because it's a
great place to be finding all over this channel. Obviously,
my name is Litin, as Maddie likes to say, and
I've apperated that phrase ever since he started using it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
Gray stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
I got going on Maddy and I doing Holy Snokes,
our Star Wars podcast every week, do our and or
rewatching our and or rewatch.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
A climaxes and let say it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
I was like, should I say that, I'm gonna say
it because the climbaxes on Thursday.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
It definitely does climax.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
We're gonna have to talk about the trailer that just
dropped this morning. Uh, I'm not, and Maddie just looks
like you've seen.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Yet a new trailer.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
There's a new trailer this morning, right about an hour
before we went live.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
I watched times. It's a good one. Genevie, Will Riley,
you can talk about it. The one we're a month away.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
Jennery, you will around love it. Love her in this
one for sure, and also find me. PJ.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Campbell to middle aged geeks on film, we are doing
our Superman run through on patreon dot com slash pld projects.
You can find us doing our MCU watch through. We
have started to be done the first two films iron Man.
Incredible Holt comes out on Patreon, I believe tomorrow, Yes,
tomorrow on Patreon. Incredible holp will go live. We are
taping iron Man too tomorrow, going through all that. It

(01:30:24):
will be on the regular channel probably starting in December.
That's how far along we got things planned at this point.
So it's a long way away where you're going through
Superman Now, that's really a lot of fun, for sure.
I do a review with Lego, which is our my
podcast on v we're trogging through the two thousand and
nine remake and basically having a hard time getting through
it because it's not very good, but we'll get there
because we're complete US.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Season and of Court.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
Finally, Crown Jewels that do my podcast on Queen every week.
Those are quick episodes, usually just doing a song and yeah,
that's that's it, that's everything. That's enough, isn't it for sure?
And that's it for less guys. We love you guys
so much and thank you for hanging out with us.
And as always, justice has been served.

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Crimson Tide (1995) vs Enemy of the State (1998)

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