Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980) vs Dune: Part Two (2024) | Class Action Live

Matty really wanted this one. He's about to be fired. It's one of those most legendary and iconic films in history against a new fan favorite. Which one prevails? Depends on the categories! #starwars #empirestrikesback #dune #dunechapter2 #georgelucas #irvinkirscher #denisvilleneuve #review #movie

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Ay, it's me. It's me.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's eld and I'm Richard Eric Jerry.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
And I'm Maddie Ganna. And this is class Action.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
The classiest movie show on the interwebs.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Not today, it ain't.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes it is.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
We're classy, classy dudes talking classy movies in a civil way.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Right here that very second, at this second, we are
very very civil. You are absolutely right, you're the most
civilist show on the interwebs at this very second.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
So it could be a civil war, a.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
War between civility. Yes, we were. We'll see how it goes.
I guess it's all to depend on you guys, really, honestly,
it all depends on you guys. We'll see how this
turner events will change our demeanors. At the end, this
show might this might be the last episode we can.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Might never also be the last episode of Byles Night.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is the second episode back or class Action Lives.
Is there my thousandth episode of podcasting at this point
in this channel. This might end the channel, This could
end the entire channel, the whole thing to go up
and smoke holy smoke actually as a word. But we're
to find out. We're gonna find out because we are
putting up two of the greatest films of all time, well,
one of the greatest films of all time and one
that might be considered that eventually, depending on the conframe.

(01:57):
It only came out twenty twenty four. I'm not willing
to say of all time. It's that when in fifty
years we're still talking about it, then we'll then we'll talk.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
But right now you better not have that as an argument.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
It is, it's gonna be an argument at this point.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Were already.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
One word for you, legacy. Anyway, Let's move on. We're
doing the Empires.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Like so lazy.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
If you say legacy, we know that it's a cop
out answer and you don't have a real one.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
No, when we need.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
To legacy, let me word what my tea.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Deny Legacy is my greatness of all time? I am
very civil. Right The Empires back Episode five of the
Greatest Trilogy of All Time versus June chapter two, which
I want to get this right off the top. I'm
gonna right off the back. I'm gonna say this right now.
Denevil and New probably my current favorite director, current favorite director, Overdrolan,

(03:05):
over Flanning. It is like my favorite horror guy.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
But this is the.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Guy for me. I love Dune. I want to say
that now, just so it's Oh, so everybody's aware that
I love both Don and Dune chapter twip.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
I mean, is there is there like all three of
us love both movies.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I mean that's a given right.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
So these are This is what makes such a tough,
tough matchup, is like we're actually putting our babies into
the cage.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
No in a courtroom, civil courtroom, civil civil to see.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
This is a custody though, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Battle to the death, I mean death penalty too. I
don't know what we're look you're putting up June chapter
two versus the one movie I will always go back
to as my favorite film of all time. So that's
what's going up against, and nostalgia is a hell of
a drop. I have told you guys point blank that

(03:59):
I am definitely biased. I know this. I'm gonna do
my best to listen to your arguments and I'm going
to do see what I have to say and see
anything brings true, because that's gonna be up on it.
If the burden of proof is gonna be on you guys.
If dudes to win I'm gonna tell you that right
off the top of that, I'm admitting it.

Speaker 6 (04:17):
Now, Why are you acting like this is an easy
one for me? Like I also have this bias? This
is my favorite style Wars.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Maybe because I don't, because the way you have been talking,
You've been talking like a try in the track.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Because I am coming at this with a point of science,
facts and logic, no legacy, no bias.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'm not nostalgia, no nostalgia feelings.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
You know it must be true, not this time. That
is why you fail.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
I mean, and we're also we're also doing something different today.
We have ten categories and a wheel we do.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
We have a very special wheel. So we had ten
categories that we all prepared, but we don't know which
one we would actually have to fight tooth and nail
for what. I know what I want to come out
on the wheel. I know what some of you want
to go out on the wheel. But let's see what
happens when the wheel gets spun. That's all the show.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
There is an ulterior motive to the wheel.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
You did say that, you mentioned this right before we
went live, so I'm kind of curious.

Speaker 6 (05:21):
So the the reason I mentioned why we are using
a wheel to these guys, which I explain to the
audience now, is that we've come up with ten categories
which will be selected completely at random, which we will
have to answer it. If the other five don't get picked,
they don't get included in the argument.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
The categories will truly be what decides this.

Speaker 6 (05:42):
Normally it's we pick five categories and we decide those
and the result is based on the categories we decide.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
This time, to Albo hands, the wheel will decide.

Speaker 6 (05:53):
Also, Pod doesn't get to pull a SIF category trick
because we've already prepared for ten.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah. Wow, wow, wow wow wow.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I don't like this eleventh category on I almost.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I almost, like I said off there, I almost precruitd
Mike Deacon to be my ace in the card. He's
getting my secret juror. The juror is gonna use to
stack the deck. I even considered that the.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Price witness Witness's.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Just gonna go around whacking the jurors.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
He is like my bulls. I've hired him to take
out everything.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
We need protective custody on this show.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Of course, the best us I could just have. Also,
something could happen and oh there he goes, there he go.
I wouldn't do that though, I would never do that.
I'm very fair and unbiased.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
Yeah, we've never kicked anyone out of the show before
when we don't like an argument.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, not my fault. Ed Harris came down of what
the avatar's ass that's not my fault. Those Ed Harris
who did that. I'm maybe speaking of Ed Harris. Yes,
that we're gonna do right awaywards, right into it. I
didn't even tell you what the show's about yet, technically
big we're actually doing here here? Actually I did what
is class action?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Really?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Didn't We put up two different subjects against each other,
whether they be filmed, they could be the series, they
could be composers, they could be directors, they could be actors,
they could be anything. Really grow up against each other
with these custom made categories that we've been rambling on about,
and then we decide at the end which one is
victorious in this battle to the avoid the death penalty.

(07:26):
I find a way I'm going to say that. I
think it's a better actually way of saying that in
terms of our courtroom. Moniker goes class action. If you
haven't better before, yere o here. Now, let's get to it.
And before we get to the meat and potatoes of
the show, which is our trial, we have a couple
of little games we'd like to play. A couple of
games we like to play. First, one is the recast Brown.
This is where we take the greatest character actor of

(07:47):
all time, the greatest, the goat the Boat, the one
and only Get Harris, and we recast them either in
a role that was already in the film, or we
make up another role that actually doesn't exist and just
slide them into the role. And we're to go first
with June chapter two. I said that person. I'm going
to go right ahead because I have already declared who
it is. We're getting Josh Brolin out. We're putting ed

(08:08):
Harrison and Harrison's journey Halleck in a hartbeat.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
That worked, that works, that tracks.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
I mean, because you know what, he's gonna be on
a spaceship at times, he could really be up there
while everybody else is down there.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
And that's how valid, valid valid point.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So that's my right off the top of the out
is going to explain it anymore because it seems like
it makes the most sentence.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Why it does it does really quick.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
That's why I hired the chat Alan Striding the Jack
Kelly w William Harrold. Of course, I you know, I
agree with these. I don't know what categories are, but
he's empire winning all of them.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Oh well, we can go home now because we know
which ones the pool is going to pick.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Actually, I I have forgotten what his picks were because
I did see his cripshit, but it was diverse.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Let's say I also have to say there's a couple
of categories I have to clarify as we go through,
and that might be part of the problem here, but
we'll do that. And yes, that was the other I
could do. That'd be good too. If that Ed Harrison
RecA Ferguson, he could pull it off. He absolutely could
pull off. Ed Harris is Jessica, I'm here.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
For it has to has to be a reverend mother mother.
Think about Ed Harris doing the voice I'm up here,
you're down.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
There, and Harris casting out the voice like that.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Though I love it, actually actually I don't. I don't.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
I don't actually have him as a reverend mother, but
I do have him as Jamis. Now hear me out,
He has to be in both movies. And I know
I'm whitewashing here, but it's I mean, it's it's a
Harris washing. You cannot you can't go on. In the
first movie, he's kind of a villain. In the second movie,

(09:42):
he is seeing through the visions like we see Jamis
like he's actually the version of who he was supposed
to be for Paul, like actually the good guy, the
kind of William Nison to Batman begins Christian Bale And yeah,
Ed Harris first as a villain, and then you see
that side to him, how he will you know, mentor

(10:04):
polar trades, And I feel like in the second part
that role really could fly more. I don't have anything
against the actor who played Jammy's, like honestly can't really
remember remember his name, but it was a character that
didn't have as much depth for me as I wanted to.
I don't know, something wasn't quite there. I know Ed
Harry's would freaking knock it out of the park on that.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
See, look, this is little we're agreeing at this point.
I like that, Maddie about you. For June, I'm.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Going to take one character actor out to put another
one I'm taking out Chris Walkin as the Emperor.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
The only problem I pursue a dad Maddie is like,
could he pull off the being weaker?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Like?

Speaker 6 (10:48):
He looks too weak in firm imagine Ed Harris just
whispering it, keeping your ear. Your father was a weak man.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
You're winning me over, you are winning over in that
one could work.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
That's got the ship Weasley to kind of be like
laid out on the floor, kiss the ring.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
I like that, all right, all right, als win. They
might have the winning one though, Ed Harris now that.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
If we go to Children of the Dune then that's
a possibility.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Get the thumper out. Harris is coming.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I gotta be honest with I can't tell you guys
one thing like looking I'm looking forward to doing Legacy,
just like you guys are doing part of three. I
can't wait for it. Beyond that, though, it does get
a little weird and I don't.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Know, stop it, wait, wait a minute, doing.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Legacy after June after June three, okay, okay, there's more
books and they get a little and I don't know
how to wait.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Well, feel nervous not going to do them.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
I think he only wants to do the three, and
I don't give a shit like the doing Prophecy.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
The TV show not as good.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
It's way, way, way weaker than the movie, so only
Villa enough can do It's right.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
I feel like, I think, just just drop it a three.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
But it's gonna make them almost a billion dollars.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
I don't care. I don't want to see I don't
want to see Children.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Of the Day.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I get it. I'm saying the studio is not gonna
listen to you. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Beezus doesn't give a ship what we think.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Exactly, so I do. Actually, I did watch the Propsy show.
It's goods got bad, but I agree, it's no.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Way, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's fine.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's not good.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, it's actually it actually is fine. But the movies
cast such a large shadow that it just feels like
a generic sci fi show.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Now I get that. I get that. To agree. All right,
let's move on to the Empire Strikes Back. We're going
to cast Ed Harris in Empire Strikes Back, Mattie, I'll
let you go first, a Stenton to it last first
or first last or whatever I just said. Take the strike.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
I have the same one.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I don't want the answer the look alike, I say,
I think what you're doing there, I appreciate that. And
Harris is a robot that basically basically a robot, I
mean not really, but he close it up of Lobot
is his name? Okay? And jarviy you prepared that a
little bits, go ahead. Why don't you talk about it?

Speaker 4 (13:11):
I did, And you see how I fucked up because
I prepared and now we have the same one.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Fucking bullshit.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
I didn't prepare him. We have the same one.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
So who's the smarter one?

Speaker 4 (13:24):
I mean, you could have him as yeah, no, because
it's such an icon of like, no, you can't have
him as the Emperor, but you kinda wait, it's the Emperor.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
He makes a brief appearance. Yes, he makes a brief
Yes he does with the the when he's talking to
Vader Raider Charles at the hologram. Yes, could do that.
I decided not to put him as either of those.
I and no, I did not cast him as Yoda either.
Alan well that would be pretty cool too, And Harris
could definitely pull off Yoda. Absolutely. I would have put

(13:54):
him as Veers General vis one Imperial who wins the
battle because he's way the ad at and the rebels
are way down there and he shoots the hell of
him and game over. Game over, man, pull it in.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Do you follow the account VIA's Watch?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I do.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
I do somewhere somewhere Vias whoever runs the VIA's Watch account.
It's just like smiling.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, they're just smiling or hating it. I can't tell
which it would be.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Like they hated smiling because he has got a mention
in anything and respect like respected, I remember viewers.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's a great imperial character. So I like that. All right,
not bad, not bad. We are still civil here we are.
We are still civil. We are fifteen minutes in so far,
we're still civil. Next up, we have Richard R. Jarvey's
favorite category or game. I should say, this is public Defender.
Richard Jarvi, why don't you tell us what public defender

(14:52):
is all about?

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yes, Public defender is a category where one of us
asks a question of the other two or he could
be a guest or a viewer, and we pretty much
are not prepared for that question. It's going to be
off the cuff. Now that's a different carrier. It's going
to be a question. We haven't prepared for, prepared for

(15:13):
and public defenders usually in movies they are under prepared
because they are overworked, underpaid. Usually you know these I
don't want to say, but kind of you know these losers.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
You don't want that, you want to you want it
paid lawyer.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
But sometimes you got to go with the public defender
and just saying that's just in movies. We might need
a public defender in real life, so we don't want
to bad mouth them. But in this instance, yes, yes, sir,
But in this instance we are the public defenders who
are not prepared for what's about to happen.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Absolutely, and I came up with a public defender question
for you guys. I did not. I try not to
prepare it myself. I mean, it's kind of hard to
do thinking about it, but you all do it best.
So I was kind of answer as well. But it
is going to be an easier one. I think it's
kind of more basic when that's inspired by these two
films together. Top three or favorite three sequels of all time,
like number two movie, not like three, four or five.

(16:11):
They have the number two direct follow ups to iconic movies.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Easy, Okay, that's number one Avatar the Way of Water. Wow,
I mean I just want to go to.

Speaker 7 (16:27):
That.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
No, I don't want to go to trilogies because Lord
of the Rings would be an obvious choice, but I
don't want to go there.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I appreciate that afect because actually would have think about
two Towers as well. But that really just more unlike
a lot of things that actually literally just feels like
one story, so like a sequel. Yeah, and I know Empire,
Shike's Back and June are also of one story, so
to speak, but that goes against what the spirit of
what we're trying to do here. So I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
It was not I think mine agree.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
So I'm like myself the last I want you to
because I did have a little bit of chance to
think about it. So I'll let you think about it more.
Avatary Wave of Water, which, by the way, in our
show earlier.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Why you just couldn't let it go? Okay, I got one? Yeah,
oh yeah, easy one Aliens.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Okay, Yeah, that was definitely on my list actually one
of the ones I thought about for sure.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Mmm.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Camera movies.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
I'm shocked in that.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
J shout out to any James Cameron podcast.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Uh and all movies we I think we've probably covered
all those movies at some point or another on this podcast.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah versus trim trilogy. That was the first episode we
ever did.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I think that might have that might have been the
first one. I think definitely the first trilogy at least
at some point we did sip against each other. Okay,
all right, Gunner, you got got a couple of.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Left tub gun Maverick, Yes, John Wick two. And I'm
gonna say it, and you two are gonna sit there
smile at me and like it Mission Impossible.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
To Oh, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. I
love that movie. It's not a good one, but yeah,
I know.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Oh it's not that I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's just it's just that you hate it.

Speaker 6 (18:27):
You realize we have a whole podcast episode on your
thoughts on m I two that we can go back
and review the tape.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
To be fair, that was kind of like, in comparison
to the other rest of the mission Impossible I like more. Yeah,
possible too is fine overall. I don't I don't write
dislike any film in that that's the best film in
the franchise. What are you talking about if it's if
it was a third film, maybe it was there three

(18:54):
films in there would be the third best in the franchise.
Are absolutely right, but unfortunately there's not. There's a lot
more than that, all right, the ones I had initially
had thought about. I did actually go with Jarby's thought
of Aliens. Different movie than Alien honestly, it's the horror
aspect versus of the basically sci fi action aspect of it.
Terminator two is actually also what I did think of.
But I'm gonna go different places now. I'll a little diferent.

(19:16):
I'll go a little deeper, a little deeper cuts now
because I'm going deep. I want to go with one that, again,
like Maddie, is actually kind of a brave choice because
people don't like it as much as the nearly as
much of the first one, but I like it a lot.
Back to the Future Part two, Well, it's not that
they don't like it, but a lot of people get more.

(19:37):
Comparatively speaking, I love it almost as much as the first.
To be honest, I would actually I put it over three.
I actually we are as we are all in the minority.
Surprisingly enough, a lot of people will like three better
than two. But I've always been the one who advocated
for two over three.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
But stupid talking.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
We're off to a good start.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
It's gonna be a doozy, right, we're on the same page.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
And the other one, I will throw out the gun
because I did have it, I said, Alien Copta Maverick
was also on my list, potentially a lot of the
same type of stuff. But I'm gonna go with another
outlayer choice, which I liked very much. Again and it's
actually in the chat. I want to say Alan Smithy's
Head India Jones the Temple of Doom, because that one
the one I grew up with and I absolutely loved it. Yes,
I know it's dated. I yes, I know it has
an age as well, but it's the one that brings

(20:27):
me back to the place. I love it. It's Indy.
I love all the indie movies. So all right, that's fair,
you know, William Herrold Chad actually says to Ratha con
that has actually a very good choice to start out
to wrath Acount is a good choice and has fallen.
That's I like that one. I like that one a lot. Yeah, bunch,

(20:48):
No one mentioned too fast, too furious? Uh fair, No,
shock that. I'm almost shocked that I should say Spiderman two,
Batterman twos one, just starting out there at that point,
no one mentioned Batman.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Two, Godfather part to the Dark Knight, The Dark Knight,
that's the one we missed that should have been.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
I prefer bat and begins, but Darkness is good. I
actually Godfather Too is one. Actually I meant to The
funny thing is about Godfather Too. In my head, I
forgot to add answers I ever have to say not
including the Godfather Too, because I thought it would be
on all of our lists.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
I believe I forgot this one. Ocean's twelve o Twell,
that's all. That's an interesting Oh that's my favorite one
of the Oceans films. Twelve is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Speaking it up, the Ocean's twelve. That is the new
writer for the Ray movie.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's Thursday's podcast.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Sorry, sir enough, sir enough. Oh you know what. My
coworker is right, absolutely right there you go, National Treasure
Book of Secrets. Because Ed Harrison is one yea and
Bad Boys two is also better than the first. I
will give him that as well. Yes, yeah, I do
like that. That's actually my favorite Bad Boys and it
had a great Uh. There was a great recall to

(22:07):
that in the last Bad Boys movie when they had
a I got I got the guy's name, the guy
who getd the daughter, and he grew up and he
was like the dog. Reggie, Reggie, Reggie, Reggie.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
He's a marine.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
He's a marine. Like he has an action sequestion, just
like hoh ship. Who is this guy?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Who the fuck is Reggie?

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Man?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Like fifteen people in the house, he can grow the
fucking chicken.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yep, yep. That was an awesome scene.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
So good. So all right, we're still kind of civil,
still kind of civil. I'll throw it up. Uh, we
are ready for the trial, I guess now then? Are
we ready for this?

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Here? Here? Ye? All right?

Speaker 3 (22:52):
All right for the honorable Judge Wheel.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Oh good one, take the names off.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
If I am going to go hit into the thing. There,
I get off the comments. This is our wheel. We
are going to do five of these categories. Five of
these categories. We have on the list. A better hero,
better villain, better music, better better ending twist, better visuals,
better supporting cast, better story, better sound, and fist punk moments.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Maddie's so nervous.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
He is really nervous. We got it. You're biting his
hand to this. But what category do you not want
to go up? Maddie better in twists? Okay, Jarvi, do
you have a category you don't want to come up?
You're you're comfortable with everything.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
I know what's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
You accepted it. You've set this before. We've said this before.
When a couple of upsets, that is true.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
That is true. All right, guys like you in the chat,
if you're watching, you can definitely play along and tell
us what you guys think and we'll see what happens.
Because away we go with the first spin. Oh yeah,

(24:16):
right off, they got the one at some point or other.
That's the one I definitely wanted in there. We have
word to the Empire strikes Back versus the Score, the
June chapter two and okay, I'm the first. I got
two words for you, John Williams, goat, I got two

(24:37):
more words for you. The Imperial March, I got two
more words for you. Yoda's theme, I got two more
words for you. Absolutely iconic. I got as far as
Zimmer's score goes, it's good, it's good.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Give me reasoning. You cannot say I and cerial. Yes,
so about elaborate.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Objection score of all time? It is if you think
of evil, you play the Imperial March, it has becomes
a theme of evil. Yoda's theme a forest theme. It
gets hummed all the time everywhere. Yode is more of
a sound than it is a score. So you can really
honest with you, I'm watching you and again it's not music. Really,
it's more like just like pulsating things. Does it work

(25:27):
for it? Absolutely? But that is not a score when
you compare it to the greatest men of all time
who ever played the game. There's John Williams up here,
there's Hans Zimmer somewhere down here. You can say I
love Hans Zimmer. There it is astroid Field best track
my my coworker Ryn Carnack and perspect back though you
ever saw it. Dude, I'm okay with that. There is

(25:50):
no high I will rebut it that you need to.
But I'll only need to say any more about that. God.
But go ahead. You can try to argue against me.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Actually you made some good points. At first you just
said iconic legacy. I'm better, but you actually had good points,
so fair.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Fair, I don't need to you're in content to call yet.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
All right, so I'm keeping score as well because I
think is gonna fuck us.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
So all right, Maddie, And that's why I said about
you said to fuck us. So that's why I've been
saying your trade of the entire time. So you don't
know where I'm going yet you said to us.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
I know I did, but that was slip of the
tongue and Maddie agreed to it. I'm on that would
be awesome if me and Maddie just teamed. I mean, wait,
I'll text you.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
I'm on the side of justice, science, facts and logic.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
All right, well, Maddie, do you take it away?

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Okay? How do I put this?

Speaker 6 (26:48):
Because this is a prelude to a matchup I want
to do on this channel one day of Williams West
like that, it has to happen. So I'm gonna come
with this from a musician at a producers perspective, Hans
Zimmer's score is more creative than John Williams.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Now.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
But before you go off and want to hear me out,
what's get that off the screen?

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Listen, this is this is mad.

Speaker 6 (27:20):
While John's. While John Williams is the goat. There is
no contest, no contestation of that. Ever, while he does
use different songwriting and composition techniques, at the end of
the day, he does still just use a standard orchestra,
uses a film orchestra. Hans Zimmer had to create instruments,

(27:45):
create sounds that did not exist to create the doing soundtrack,
to create the score, he had to create things essentially
out of thin air, whereas John Williams just he had
an orchestra. He created different compositions that had never been
done before. But to use actual sounds and instruments that
have never ever been used before. It's it's.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
But the category before category is better music, not more
creative music. And I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (28:23):
There is not a single track, not a single note
that holds up to the Imperial march.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
No one, no one.

Speaker 6 (28:32):
If I if I take it down to pure replay value,
it's emple, it's empire.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Empire takes it CPOD. This is what I'm saying, Like.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Len, go ahead, go ahead, Richard R. Jarvey, what is your.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Actually actually, Maddie said, A very similar point to mine
is that John Williams does what he does in the
best past way. And this is a John Williams score
through and through. Hans Zimmer is more of an experimentalist.
I feel like he's kind of bored at this moment
of his career because he's done so much that he's

(29:12):
kind of like, I'm going to go into you know,
tones and sounds and creating.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
New, weird, alien like music.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
I gotta agree that it's more atmospheric then it's actually melodic.
And to its detriment, I think June Part one score was.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Better.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
It had more of a theme to it. The second
part was kind of repeating the same beats that the
first one did. But and I was listening to the
score today without the movie.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
Usually I like to listen to scores and that kind
of reminds me of the movie. This one kind of
even annoyed me a little today. But like Matti said something,
really what I said before, John Williams just does his thing,
whereas Hans Zimmer experiments and tries new things.

Speaker 7 (30:06):
But I will give this to fucking John Williams because
I mean it truly, truly, it truly is the better theme.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
And I'm trying to stay away from more iconic, more memorable,
but I mean Imperial March, Yoda theme, Han and Leia theme.
It just it goes on and on, and it's like,
it is what John Williams does, and he's done it
with the Disney.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Trilogy as well.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
It feels Star Wars, but it's still new, it's still different.
He finds new ways to go to whereas Hans Simmer
and this one I feel like kind of is maybe
a bit too experimental. But yeah, I do love Hans
Simmer score. So I think he won the Oscar for
the first one.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Deservedly allowed to be up to this one because of that.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, really, oh wow, they couldn't.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
He couldn't be nominated, which is whatever I will say.
I will say. Let me just say real quick, the
only thing I gonna say. You mentioned not want to
use the word iconic, and I agree with you. That's
an over overused adjective and I even though we're use it,
I'll fully admit that. But in this case, it absolutely fits.
And secondly, I wish I could. I wish I had
one more argument against Hans everyone, but I couldn't remember.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
It was.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I remember watching the movie and there's something that's going
on and it sounded like a different score to me like,
there is you know, like, please not that John Williams
hasn't plagiarized himself. I know that kind of has to.
But like Zimmer totally played or something like that. I
was like, this is I just watched some other movies
that Zimmer did, and it was exactly what I can't
I don't have the defense of says. I don't know,
don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember listening

(31:40):
to her going, this is not doing this is whatever
it was at this.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Point, objection badgering the witness.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
I just know what this stop. He's already dead. All right,
Let's move on then to our next segment. Then I
would do that.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Let's get get this out here.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Wheel back up. We have one less on the wheel. Now.
I'm glad we got that. That was what I wanted
to go up most. So honestly, I'm not gonna.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Lie nine left, I mean, no four left, but nine nine. Oh.
So we got Maddy's one.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Lead's favorite one, Maddie Lead's favorite one. Okay, there you go.
Let's get rid of this one. Now, Maddie, do you
want to start or go last on this one?

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Star? Let's just get out of the way. I am
your father. End of discussion. I don't hear anyone walking
around saying grandfather or hello cousin.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Yes, wasn't there a parental twist in doing as well?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (32:44):
They wasn't found out there his mom's heark.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
But even if the story actually could have got under
doing story came first, So I will give it that redit. Yes,
But what was far which one is more impactful?

Speaker 3 (32:59):
They're talking about the movie, talking about the movies.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I'm saying movie, and we're talking about the movie you
know what in that case too, when that is which
comes down to the empire tacking movies did come back
the more the Dude adaptation, adaptation, even the Lynch adaptation,
say we're gonna talk about that one. But at the
end of the day, I agree, I agree with Jarva,
I mean Gardener. I'm sorry, Mattie. I'm sure that they
were good twists. They were fine twists, but it all

(33:22):
felt secondary to what is considered the greatest twist of
all time, maybe the only ones that can come closest.
So I wish you'd been a good maybe a good
public defender. What twists have like resonated like that? Maybe
sixth sense resonated like that at some point, maybe usual
suspects the ending twists there resonated like that to a degree.

(33:42):
But I mean, Luke, I am your father or sorry, actually.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, that's your favorite movie. I know.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I went to the I went to the what's I
called the Mandela affacted version of it? Uh, you know,
I am father. It's just if you have these people.
I mean, it's lampooned, it's mentioned, it's actually considered almost
past ay now because of Empire strikes back, Like you
can't put any further with that at this point, So
it's me.

Speaker 6 (34:11):
It's still about the moment as well, Like Luke is
laying that with his hand cut off, the same thing
that happened to you Anakin, like it's poetry at rhymes. Yeah,
it's it's it's the greatest twist in cinematic history.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I agree. What do you consider what do you consider
the twist in June part two? That's my question too.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
I would say finding out that Jessica is a Hocknin because.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
That's not an ending twist, Like we're talking ending twist, right,
so it don't envy.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
I would say, him asking the princess orlands.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Americ him mm hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
The ending twist honestly actually impacts some one of my
questions later on, which I here's the preview for it.
We don't have to talk about her now, but there's
three four who comes up, Paul becoming a bad guy
basically kind of not even becoming a bad guy, but
like Paul turning the back on Zendia basically becomes the villains.
I'm the villain of this story now kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Actually, well he kind of isn't isn't, But that's it. Yeah,
it's in the movie. He more comes close to being
a villain in the book. Actually he doesn't. But yeah,
we're talking movies, so.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Sure in the book you have to get that he
they kind of moved up the villain. That's part of
a little bit sooner for sure. I will say that
the fact that we don't even know a real necessarily know,
we had to ask the question as what the twist is,
which is like.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
No, I actually I do know.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Sorry, I don't want to interrupt, I do know what
the twist is, because you were talking about the.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Rebecca Ferguson twist.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
But but I think the ending twist is how Paul
pretty much plays the entire planet to he's aat advantage.
It's a political twist that he kind of he does
the speech, right, he becomes the and then he fucking
takes the throne and kills you know, all the harken Ands.

(36:00):
But I think the twist is yeah, on one part,
the Princess cyril One and the fact that he pretty
much becomes the emperor, right right, yes.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
But that but that's exactly my point is it's not
clear cut, like Maddie thought one where you're kind of
like having to what what what is it? What is it?
Did we have to ask about the empire twist? Did
anybody have to ask about what the empire twist?

Speaker 6 (36:24):
Was? The twist there could be the also the twist
at the end of doing part two, where is like
tell the the other houses, if anyone comes to attack,
then we'll use our atomics on the on the spikes,
basically him saying, yes, they come, any clost will blow
up all the space.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
The twist is very intricate, it's complex, it's a political move.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's very complex.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
But as far as best twist goes, as far as
that goes, it's the one to me made the most
impact on the movie. So this was that was good
twist was I'm not saying it was a bad All
those were good twists, but like you don't come out
of the screening and go and say like, well you
come out of the screen from part track, but it
tracks back like, holy shit, there does father have this
this movie kind of like, oh, that was kind of cool.

(37:04):
They Oh, I didn't expect that.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
I'm not going to kick your ass for spoiling it
for me.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
All that, and yes, William Harell challenging I I did
not say final answer interized until I changed. I actually
literally changed it before they called me out on it.
So by I smoke down the rules as a judge,
I'm right.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
What was your Yeah?

Speaker 4 (37:25):
No, The reason why I'm asking is that the twists
are fundamentally so different. One is an emotional twist on
Empire's part and June Part two is kind of a
political power move, so they're way different emotionally. No, I'm

(37:45):
your father resonates. It resonated with the generation. I mean
this one. People have read the book. It wasn't that
much of a twist because you knew something was coming.
If you didn't know, I'd say it still was a
great twist. It's it's weird because you're kind of comparing
things that are are not comparable in a way, kind

(38:07):
of like these movies.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
But you know, in a way, I do agree.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, but yeah, I'm also going with Empire. The purity,
the simplicity of it, and yeah, it's still it still
hits even even though you watch that movie for the
hundredth time, you're still like you feel the moment and
how Luke or Mark Hamillill acts that moment as well.

(38:32):
I mean, there's not a lot of great acting in
Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
That was a cool moment.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
That was a very cool moment. I agree, and I'll
actually throw it out there too. You mentioned like political
versus emotional. Empire is actually also somewhat political because that's
the time, but not a dark twist. No, No, it
was though, because that's also the twist where we learn
that Dart Vader wants to overthrow the emperor. Until then,
Vader has kind of always been the laugh. Now he
offered Luke, the he offers Luke, He's like, we can
overthrow thee his father. So that was another like so

(39:02):
it's a political and emotional twist and one but Does
he mean that or is he just absolutely I think
he absolutely means that. He's been one. He's been, he's been,
He's hated Palatine forever, has been. It's the rule, too, sure,
it's always been the way to you know.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
I think at that point Darth Vader isn't like redeemed,
so at that point he just wants Luke to help
him overthrow the emperor, not to rule his father. And
I think he's just using Luke at that moment. Later
he kind of, you know, does it for always kind.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Of there in the background. It's always there, like floating around.
That's what makes come, makes redemption come eventually, That's what
it is. It wasn't there. He couldn't have.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Been redeemed, sure, but the spark wasn't lit yet.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
All right, let's move on then to the next spin
of the wheel.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I mean, it's all right, two third one or that was.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
The category two is kind of kind I can tell.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
The sound design, I admit, this is one.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
I struggled with in terms of what I didn't want
this one. This is one I didn't because it's very
it's a very difficult battle. This one is.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Do you want to go first, or.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I don't know. I actually I like to go I think
I would not like to go first on this one, Maddie.
Let's let you go first on this one.

Speaker 6 (40:32):
The sound design in doing Part two is such an
introcol part of the film. You hear the sound of
Shaihalud coming through the sound the sound of the thumper,
just the roar of the crowd of the fremen.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
I there's cool.

Speaker 6 (40:54):
There's cool little moments in Empire strikes back, like City
coming through the clouds and hearing you know, hearing all
the speeders come through, the droids and the trash and
like in the you know whatever that is the not
the interrogation, remember where they throw all the joy parts
and everything there, just all the noise and the conversation going.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
On in there.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
But I don't feel like the sound design is as
embedded into.

Speaker 6 (41:26):
Empire as it is, like we we even mentioned it
on when we were talking about the score. It was
like Hans Himer wrote this stuff to be a lived
in part of the film. So in that instance, I
got to give this one a doom.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Okay, yeah, I think it's fair if I go no, I.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Will just before we Ryan and the shadow. You want
to say, I mean, what is sound design. Some film
people may not non film nerves might not know that
sound design basically is the practice of designing the entire
sonic sands landscape, landscape as it were, all at the
different sounds how like it could be a robot, it

(42:13):
could be just a background noise. It could be a humming.
It could actually incorporate music or in Hans Zimmer's case,
more of the kind of vibrating sounds. It could be
the lack of music. It could be the fighting sounds
like sometimes the ef You don't really it's something that
you don't really notice unless you really look for it.
Because I actually good does sound design You kind of
don't even think about it until afterwards because it's just
kind of there. It envelops that world. But some of

(42:36):
them have been used more to others. Some of them
these better than others have done for sure. But with
that in mind, Jarbi, go ahead shoot out. What you're
thinking is.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
I was I had the exact same struggle as Maddie did,
Like Star Wars, just the sounds like X wings, flying droids,
moving lightsabers, igniting. I mean, these are so embedded in
us Darth Vader breathing. It's But the reason why I'm
also veering towards Dune Part two is there is so

(43:11):
much more nuance in it. I mean, Star Wars is
a great sci fi sound design, but it's all like
it's up on the surface, it's all out there, it's
in your face June Part two.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Not only is the sounds like both the movies start with.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Like aber, just like a fucking voice going straight fucking
through it, and it sets the tone for the movie.
And it's not just like hard like deep bass sounds.
There's so much silence that gets incorporated in the right way,
and that is also an integral part of the sound design.

(43:48):
I feel like when the voice is used like every
time you feel it, and when there's like the start
of June Part two, when the starter car kind of
flying towards the cliff right going up kind of in silence.
There is nothing, there's no boosters, there's nothing, They're just
floating up there. And I feel like that silence, that nuance,

(44:11):
and also the big sounds, the explosions, the fights, the
hand to hand combat fight scenes, not talking visuals, just
the sound. Also, there is no music during those fights.
It's just brutal hand to hand combat and it's just
sound design and you just feel the moments. So it
did hurt me to not give this to Star Wars
because the sound design in Star Wars, but it's in

(44:34):
all those three movies.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
It's great. I feel like there's nuance that gives it
to Dune.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Here's the question I have, honestly, when I did struggle
with this one, this is one I struggled most with,
probably to be honest with you, because you're correct. With Dune,
sound design is phenomenal, But we are talking about the
specific movie, So I think we're talking about the general
like Dune and Dune two and then Star Wars Slade.
I think I'd have to immediately give the Star War
because you have Lightsabers, you have the high fighter screams,

(45:03):
you have anything else but specifically designed for Empire strikes
back that so when becomes a little more challenging for
me specifically. But you already had Lightsabers from episode four,
you already had the X wings or whatever. At the
same time, I can't deny the absolute creative genius that
Ben Bird is. He designed sound for film as it is.
I mean, you look at some of the stuff he did,

(45:23):
like the Dagoba animal life. You know what that was.
That was like a bunch of like raccoons in a bathcomb.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Like yeah, I thought it was like back or something
like that.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
It was something to that fact. It was like he
the guy just like takes these weird ass sounds and
like we don't even think about it, Like we don't
even think about it. But like he created like a
sea otter who was like that was the Taunton he like,
he takes animal voices, like the creativity behind it, It's
just it made me. I read about the creativity behind it.
I started thinking about all the sound design is that

(45:56):
I don't notice. Dunes are very noticeable sound effects. It
was very noticeable sound design. I don't think empires. It's
almost like we take it for granted, but it's in
a galaxy far far away, and just hear these aliens are.
But then when they hit and you're like look into
what he did to do them, You're like kind of
like wow, I didn'ite even thought about some of this stuff.
And then in terms includes the music, I get that

(46:17):
the lightsaber battles are all that you talk about the battles,
the lightsaber battles, the hoff battles, the swaring of the
snow speeders going on, the humming of those beat the
snow speeders, like lifting of the rocks, like the clicking
of the rocks together, the forced visions. There's a lot
of incorporating the music. I can't still can't knock cu
it the empire overall. As far as creativity, their boat,

(46:38):
they are neck. I will give that. They are neck
and neck and I I almost gave this to do
and I almost did, but I can't. I can't. I
look at somebody putting raccoons in a bath thumb as
this just to make a wildlife in a movie.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
How can animal cruelty on this show?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
How can I not reward You're right definitely about that,
But yeah, how could I not give that like of
ingenious like thought process. I can not give reward that.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
I mean a question question. It's not a question about
how creatively the sounds were made.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
It's about the end product, like they could.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Have been made in a I don't know, underwater with
whales whatever. But we're talking to and I'm sure in
June part two there's a lot of.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Just computer generated sounds.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
I'm sure there's a lot of because we don't have
like loves practical effects, and I'm guessing it's the same
in sound design.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
But there's got to be a lot of.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
So what do you can it's not cgi it's audio
visual effects, you know what I mean. But pretty much, Yeah,
your reasoning at the moment was kind of the way
they made those sounds, but we got to talk about
the ready product, not that they made it in it
so such a creative way.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
That's where I would argue, though. The fact is that
again it comes down to you sometimes you don't even
notice it because it makes like you don't even notice
the sound design as far as because you're so enveloped
into the sound. I watched June and I actually do
notice the sound design as far as that.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
But I think you're supposed to in this part, you're
supposed to.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Maybe you are, but I don't think you are at
this point because they're because you think about these like
new and inventive things they're doing, and they just feel
like they're are a part of the world that created it,
and that to me makes it more enveloping into the world.
I'm not stopping my movie ago. Oh that's a cool sound,
and it's like about I just think about this is Empire
spects back and I look into him like, holy shit,
look what that he did for this. They created this

(48:28):
whole library of stuff and I can't. I can't just
Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
It's like the dead stuff is more immersive.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
And I know it's a decade that the time comes
into play because one is a movie from the well eighties, right,
it's eighty nineteen eighty.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
So you can say eighties.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
The other one is twenty first century movie. So yeah,
time comes. It is more immersive. But are we supposed
to hold it against.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
That that movie is older and the other ones you were?
I don't think we are.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
We're supposed to grade them at the moment.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And that's.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Me.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Star Wars did much more with less on that sound design.
They had a much more creative to get the same
type of sound immersive effects as much easier to do
it nowadays to people be honest with you. So that
in mind, if it's neck and neck, I gotta give
it more, which is more creative about a way of
doing it.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
So the thing about think about Star Wars is and
like I love the sound, I love this like everything
has like a certain like you know what the millennium
falcon sounds like, you know what the tire fighters sound like.
But it's it's not as original like the sounds.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
I don't know, it feels like it could be.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Star Trek movies also have very cool sound designs. Do
ones feel different? Like there's nothing like the orny thopters
making it weird?

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Not a helicopter, it's something totally different.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, what you're saying is it actually goes to me
because take the sounds away and you heard it for
the first time. They've been with you all your life.
The Empire Millennium falcon flying has been with you all
your life, which sounds commonplace to you. It didn't when
you first heard it. It doesn't when you first hear them.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Yeah, but Dune when you first no, No, but it Well,
it's tough to say how it sounded to me in
the first time I watched it, But.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
If you go back to people who were watching it
for the first time.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
Yeah, but that's kind of unfair, right, because you watch
one movie five times the other one five hundred that
you got.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
To take that out. You got to try and be
objective about it.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
I'm not talking about you. I'm countering your argument that
they feel commonplace because you watch them five hundred times,
like so you basically you're giving it's like a recency
bias towards Zoom because you're like, oh my god, I've
never heard this before. When you would have been the
same way with Empire shykes Back if you would just
watch it just now.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
I don't don't agree.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yeah, and that this is kind of now where subjectivity
comes into play. I don't think I reacted to Empire
Stracks Back the same way I did June Part two
when I first saw it, and you said it right,
I think you maybe we're not supposed to notice the
sound design, but I think Dune is a different beast.

(51:21):
It relies as much on sound as it doesn't visual effects, and.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
You're supposed to feel it.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
You're supposed to like appreciate it more and let it
take you out of the movie a bit, whereas Star
Wars it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
It's part of the movie. Okay, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
I'm not gonna We're not gonna obviously change other's mind,
but that's okay. So we're actually being a little civil
I'm not surprised. Let's move this sound quickly before the
devaluates or evolves into it. I think we got next,
our next category. Let's see what we got here. Two
more categories left, better story, better story. Okay, sorry, I

(52:09):
wanna let you start with this one. Me.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Yeah, sorry, my sound cut off for a moment.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Better story, trying to find my notes, all.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
Right, yeah, Well, there's also like different levels because one
is a complete story.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
One completes the story.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
One is a meat section of the story, I mean,
and they were so different in the same way as
the ending twists was Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I don't know, it's kind of.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
A straightforward, simpler story, whereas Dune Part two, not saying
it's it's one of the most complex stories of the
Star Wars movies, but Dune Part two has so many
different movie parts to it. What makes Empires stories so
interesting and that I'd even say the best, well the

(53:07):
best of the Star Wars episodes ever, is that this
kind of is the failure of a hero's journey. Luke
pretty much does fail in his own way, but that
is a great teaching moment, and that is an awesome point.
If he didn't fail in the second one he probably
wouldn't have become the Jedi that he did in Return
of the Jedi. So this definitely is the most original

(53:34):
of the Star Wars stories. Also that there is no
big desk start to blow up, there's no base attack,
They're pretty much on the run. Luke has to face
Vader loses. I mean, and I remember the way it
did hit me is like the heroes are pretty much
they've lost. This is not a happy ending type of movie.

(53:54):
And to this day, I think it's really original and
different for Star Wars movie. Whereas Dune Part two, that movie,
even though Empire strikes back goes really dark, Dune's second
part gets really dark and even plays with turning the

(54:16):
hero into a villain a bit. So yeah, this is
kind of it's kind of a matter of vibe and
genre as well. Like Star Wars is a more you know,
family oriented story. During Part two can can do so
many different things. Because I mean, it's PG. It's PG thirteen,

(54:37):
is it Empire, No, No, Dune Part two, Empire.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
I'm guessing they're all.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Because PG thirteen didn't exist until eighty four.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
So yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
Find this this this for me was one of one
of the most difficult ones.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
But this is still.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
The reason why I'm getting this to Empire is.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Because it feels so.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Much more different from the other episodes of the Star
Wars movies. It does work on its own as a standalone.
This Dune Part two is, you know, a much needed
continuation of the story.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yeah, I don't know. It feels like it's dark story
versus a.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Bit more family oriented story. But where I put in
the separator is the Star Wars story is the most
unique one of the Star Wars movies.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Oh, absolutely agree with that. Mag Do you mind if
I go, yeah, Okay, I will say I agree. I
want to give Dune its credit and that Star Wars
does take a lot from the Dune story, like Dune
was one of those ingredients that George just kind of
came up with and mixed together with Flashboard and Rogers
to make that Star Wars cake, as it were. But

(56:08):
I will say that June two is June story is
also infinitely more complex, and I agree with that as well. However,
I almost think, I want to say, too complex. It's
almost overcomplex, overcomplicated, and it's not necessarily a bad thing,
because I still love the story as far as you're
comparing the two together. Empire Steps Back does have that

(56:32):
fairy tale like myth everybody can understand that, everybody can
love it, do it as like an adult story. And
Ship's Back is like a everyone story. So what's better?
I guess your miles may vary, but I think the
Empire Strikes backstory is a little more universal. Be it
a little more of that black and white kind of
with with gray with gray that kind of like understanding

(56:53):
of what this plot is and what we're going with
it simplest that doesn't necessarily mean bad, and in case
this case, simpler is actually very nice. And like you
mentioned this before before, yes we do have Paul's Turn,
but I gotta be honest with you here, I'm gonna
and this by Ralphis on Feathers. That's for people who
love doing. I kind of like doing. I think that
Paul's Turn isn't as well the turn to the Dark

(57:16):
Stride as it were, isn't as well displayed or executed
as people think it is. See it does seem sometimes
like I know the whole we go to one over.
Other favorite movies Revenge of the Sith that people will
talk about Anagin's follow being too quick and too dirty
and too easy. I kind of watching Dune chapter two,
I kind of felt like it kind of sort of
almost that came out of nowhere, but it kind of

(57:36):
felt like he was I am not gonna do this.
I'm not gonna do this. And when he eventually did
do what he did, it felt a little bit I
didn't buy that he had done he had gotten there yet.
To be honest to you, it didn't ruin it for me.
I still thought was that over overall well done, But
I think comparatively speaking, I don't think it was that

(57:57):
perfect of a twisted turn, which hurts the story for
me a little bit. Empire, you have the boyhood hero
who has made us first. They won the first battle
in exist to four. He is now trying to become
a rebel leader. He's trying to be the hero that
everybody needs him to be. He's trying to become the

(58:18):
first new Jedi in Forever. He's trying to save his friends,
save his family, save everything, and he makes mistakes. He
has the impetuousness of youth, he has that skywalker impulsivity.
He makes these mistakes and he pays for them, and
he pays for them, but not only that, you also
have these great storyline I mean, Duneto, you has some
great cool storylines. You could say that the Hearkening storyline

(58:39):
is kind of with Austin Butler and Stealin Scars Gurg,
that's kind of cool. But I think the Han and
Lea bit is actually better too. You have the Han
and Leia storyline, you have the Han and Lando storyline,
all like these other little bits and pieces that kind
of throve together, and at the end of the day,
it's a great a greater whole of soup, well a
lot of food. Metal First that, I'm sorry that you're

(59:01):
making you hungry, I'm sure, but I think that the
story for June two is great, but it's almost overcomplicated.
I feel like there's a lot going on, and I'm
not saying you can't understand it, because it's not. It's
understanding that's not as universal and not as it's too much,

(59:21):
too much for the story itself was Empire simpler.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
It's almost as Dune's strength is its weakness in that sense,
and I kind of hate, I absolutely hate giving this
to Empire, but I just I have to because I
feel like Dune's story is so fucking complex and well done.
And and one thing about complex movies is sometimes I
mean there's many movies where I guess all three of

(59:49):
us have like we're watching the thing, the story unfolds,
it gets too difficult, we're like, okay.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
We're not following that one.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Okay, but it kind of wraps up in a way
that you're still like on board even though you're not
understanding the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Little details of it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
That's also like a thing of maybe I'm being too
complicated at the mind.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
Is my point is, even if the movie is overly complicated,
you're still on board when the big moments happened, and
you're kind of with it. With this one, it is
I'm sure there's things I'm not putting together in June
Part two, but I'm still like, oh, this wrapped up
in an awesome way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
A lot of people would love it because it is
more complex and it's more adult. After're growing up deeply
grew up with Star Wars. We know, we've seen them
people looking for more adult Star Wars. In a way,
this is kind of more adult Star Wars. Why. I
think it's partially I've been so successful amongst like Star
Wars fans. And before we get to you, Madam, I
know you're there's Ryan. Luke lost a battles to win
the war. I don't believe he failed. How he failed,
he returned on the dark side.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
That's pretty much what I meant better for it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Yeah, the failure is necessary in that part, but I
still think I'd call it a failure because in his
eyes he did fail, right, he went he went out
there to do something different.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
He didn't go out there to fail.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Absolutely. And ye that's true too. That the best story
lines that Luke and Lane made out in a New Hope,
and we find out children's sister. No, that's what we
don't find it. Don't find out until Jedi is So
that does not work against it. Doesn't find out he
sees his sister until return of the Jedi. They didn't make.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Up in a New Hope. They made out in Empire
the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
She kissed him on the cheek, and the New Hope
and then they kissed more full on. Right, does not count
as far as our story beat against it in this
particular case. All right, Maddie, go ahead throw it out
there for your story.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
So I will respectfully disagree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Boy, Oh thank you. I'm actually glad that.

Speaker 6 (01:01:33):
To me, there are many, many, many, many many islances
of a hero coming back from a failure.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
We have seen this.

Speaker 6 (01:01:42):
It is the hero's journey for the hero to learn
to make the mistake, have the failure, and then come
back from it to rise again like a phoenix from
the ashes, become stronger, and then overcome the evil and
overcome the challenges that he had to face. The whole
thing about the reason what got a bigger fist pump

(01:02:04):
Luke beating Vader or Vader throwing the emperor down.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Into the pit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
This is not fist pump though.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
I'm getting to that oa.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
What is what gets more of a reaction coming back
from a failure or coming back from a fall. Because
in this in doing part two, Paul was never written
to be the hero.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Frank Herbert has said as much. He never and Denny
even said as well, he never wrote Paul to be
a hero. It was a complete mischaracterization for people to
think that in doing part one that Paul was going
to be a hero. He was written as this false messiah,
which we now know that the bene Jesure that this
group of witches essentially put him in place. They had

(01:02:47):
fader Rafa there as a backup in case it didn't
work out with Paul to the point where his own
mother is behind it. His own mother is in on
the bit to be like you are You're nothing, You're
just a boy put in this position by us. You
have your power because of us. Then you go back

(01:03:09):
to the first one.

Speaker 6 (01:03:11):
You're back to do in part two, the moment that
he has with the letter of his father where he's like,
what if it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Doesn't come to me?

Speaker 6 (01:03:17):
What if I'm not supposed to be this big leader,
what if I'm not supposed to be this grand leader,
this whatever you expect me to be? And then letter
just says, well, You'll still be my son, and he
loses track of that. He just assume It's like his
father's death triggers it in him that he's just like, well,
now I have to be this. I have to rise
and become the leader of the Fremen and take out

(01:03:41):
the empire before my dad. But gets twisted, that gets
twisted by this religion, It gets twisted by the reverend Mothers,
It gets twisted by the Benny Jesuit to the point
where you're just like you're watching the fall happen before
your eyes, and it's almost like with Anakin, we didn't
get to I disagree, and that I think that it

(01:04:03):
did get played out a lot more from the first
film with Anakin.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
We knew it was coming. We we knew going into
the prequels. As soon as we saw Anakin there, we
were like, that kid's going to grow up to kill everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Someone's a good boy. He was such a good boy
and such a good boy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Paul was just sitting there. He just wanted to, you know,
learn how to fight with Gurney. He just wanted to
learn how to fly.

Speaker 8 (01:04:28):
The then I can't remember the name of the ships,
the little thank you bro hanging out with Jason Bromoa
like he was a good kid, and it's the equal
story of destiny, right, But that gets into better hero topic,

(01:04:49):
So I'm going to drop it at that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
I just said, seeing a hero fall is more impactful
to me than seeing a hero fail, because I know
the hero is going.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
To come back. However, in Best Story, you kind of
said it best. Herbert said the best, and then the
movie kind of kind of following away too. The fact
that it didn't ring to people that he was a
villain at the end of the story. Isn't that a
failure of the story to Is it a failure story
to communicate what its story is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
It's a failure of doing part once.

Speaker 6 (01:05:23):
But I think it's an absolute success in doing part
two when we see that Paul is this fake messiah,
that he is not what we thought him to be
at all.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
But I think the initial reaction wasn't that for like
film bros and stuff like that, I think they get it.
But I think a lot of the casuals, there's a
lot of people out there who are like Paul's. They
see Paul holding up the sword, leading the people, defeating,
defeating the bad guy they're supposed to be at.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
This point, he's not the villain yet you said it yourself.
They kind of with the movie. They did it too
soon and it's not supposed to be a full on
blip well lone villain yet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
But they're trying. But the movie, that's what the movie did,
and if the movie is going to make him a
villain like that in the movie, then they lead up
to it doesn't work as well. So that means the
story fails a little bit comparatively, whereas what is Unpirepek's
back failure story was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
I don't think there's failures in either movies. It's which one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
I'm talking about comparative. There's an argument to be made
against Dune at that point, I don't have an I've
never had yet to hear an argument against a Paraphex's
backstory anything about it, really, honestly, And that's.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
What I think with I think it's what you said
and what I said is its strengthen and weakness is
that Empire story is kind of simple, straightforward story, whereas
Dune has so many moving parts that he has to
juggle and he kind of manages to fit it all
into that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
In terms, in this terms of this battle, it collapses
under the way, does it really overall in general collapse. No,
it does. It's job well, But I'm talking about we're
talking about heights of story, and we're talking about such
heights of possibilities. Somebody's got to lose in that case.
That's where this is collapses just enough to be underneath
the Empire in my eyes at that point. But if

(01:07:12):
Maddie wants to say, your final is doomed, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Okay, Yeah, I'm changing my answer to do And thank you, Maddie, you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Son of a bitch. The pan is already clear, already
wrote down the story.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
No, we can. We've dude, We've been doing this.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
This is the best part when someone sways you, we
can't change our vote, and we've done that many times before.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
And I think Maddie's reasoning was great. Fine, and I
have to agree.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
You know, you agree with me the whole time I did.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
This is the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
These are two fucking great stories, but you got to
pick the better one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Right, So but you agree to this the whole time,
that this is the better one, and then now you're changing.
You're changing it though even though you said the simplish
story is the better one, the over complicated one has
a miss in. It has a missed the empire don't have.
So what's the argument that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
No, I don't agree that there's a mess. I think
the fact that I think, I think. I think the
fact that we're questioning it is an even better type
of storytelling. It's to what you you You can talk
about these things, you can analyze in your opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
He wasn't the villain.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
Oh but I think he was that's great fucking storytelling.
He makes you question things. It is not as straightforward,
whereas Empire stracks back. You know who's a villain, you
know who's a hero. This gives you leeway. People are
shades of gray, not good and bad. I just thought
Mattie's reason. He was saying, this is not a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Fine Okay, fine, both wrong, but it's fine. Okay, let's
buy the final category fixes in. This is like the
Chiefs and Bills all over again. All right, final category?

(01:09:08):
How are they gonna screw me? Now? Better visuals?

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
This might be slice you would deliver it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah, I know what you guys are picking, but no,
go ahead, Jarvy is first.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
No, this this is the most clear cut Dune.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
And I know, I know this is.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
It is unfair to say because one movie was made
in the eighties and the other one was a year
ago but.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Made in the seventies by the way came out.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
Yeah, true, true, But we're not talking about we're not
comparing these movies in a time vault. We're talking right
now and Dune Part two I think is gonna stand.
And this is me thinking, I know it's not objectivity,
but Dune uses so many practical effects, the way it's shot,
the way lighting is used. Sure there's in it, but

(01:10:02):
like all the sand scenes, they're on actual sand. The
lighting is always.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Natural that they're using.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
They're not doing CGI lights whatever, and you feel the world.
And I'd say, as far as sci fi movies go,
I think Dune Part one, Dune Part two.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Are they are sci fi movies.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
With the best visual effects ever, like ever, they are
the best.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
They are the peak.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Because and not even Nolan movies, not even James Cameron movies,
not even Avatar movies. The fact that they're using practical
effects to such a high level is groundbreaking and this
is going to stand the test of time. And I
know Star Wars did a revolutionary thing with its effects, yes,
but compared to Dune, No go.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Mad.

Speaker 6 (01:11:03):
I think it would be best if you went because
I know where you're going to go, and I want
to be the tiebreaker.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Fine bans down and parfects back in the heartbeat. Dune
has looks great, but I mean, like, the visual effects
are good, but honestly in the cinematography is good, but
there's like a film over the entire movie. For me,
it's this way that it's a choice that the villainy
you've made what do you mean film the grain of
the film like this, it's this this colored grading that
they use which kind of makes everything look the same.

(01:11:32):
I felt like almost everything looked the same. Comparatively speaking,
there wasn't as much difference between the colors are prime.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
That was.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
That's so sorry, I'm breaking into your conversation. I actually
forgot to mention that the Colosseum fight, because most of
the story is happening on iraqis it's supposed to be
great and it's supposed to be a bit yellowy, very deserty.
We go to a different planet, completely different feel and
revolutionary use of camera and lighting. The way they inverted

(01:12:05):
sort of the I can't remember what it's called. Something infrared, Yes,
infrared cameras. One scene where the Baron Harkin then goes
to the Colosseum. At first you see natural colors. The
switch when he goes in the sunlight infrared cameras, the
picture changes. I mean, it's it's seamless, it's perfect, and

(01:12:26):
it's just the peak of CGI visual effects and it's
not CGI, it's actual practical.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Effects, awful choices. I'm sorry, Empire revolution part is the
Partment revolution of visualize. It looks just as good today
as it did in nineteen eighty. It was made in
nineteen seventy nine. And again you don't agree with this argument.
I get it made in the seventies, but the creativity
they use at that time when they couldn't rely on computers,
they couldn't rely on any kind of graphics. You might

(01:12:54):
say they use practical effects, but there's a lot of
computer stuff that was put over the top of doing
to help out by the blood, sweat and tears that
are people. The practical effects they made Yoda believable. They
made a muppet into a character long before Gold and
Lord of the Rings, Lord before anything else. A muppet

(01:13:15):
became a believable a puppet, a freaking hand puppet generally
became a believable character. Not only believable character, one of
the greatest characters in the history of phil a little
puppet that all alone, the idea of Yoda being there
takes the cake for me. Everything else, Like, I feel
like a lot of like the doing stuff I saw
it was good, but like it kind of felt like

(01:13:36):
it came from somewhere else. It kind of can't make it.
It didn't seem very original to me at all. It
felt like it felt like the sand Worms were the
star lac Pit done a little bit better, done a
little more, a little more smoother, a little more.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Funny thing is that it actually is the other way around,
beause Star Wars took that from from.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
We're talking in the movie. But I know it is
very completely I completely under said that, and that is
you're absolutely wrong. And I said that more on the
show in this episode that Star Wars took a lot
from Dune. Absolutely, but as far as visually good, you're
talking about the just visuals it looked, it basically felt
more real this the certain sand Worm's Honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
It's just sort of like picked in Empire.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
You're right, you know, you're not You're not wrong, You're wrong,
okay about it? Talking about you know, Star Wars POV,
I wasn't. I wasn't saying that they was the Empire.
What I was saying the originality of Dunes. I'll t
talking about Dune's original like doing stuff looking like familiar
to me, reach reread it that way, not as good as.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
A returnin I was. I just had to enjoy the women.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Exactly. But but talking Empires, that everything felt new and
unique to me as far as that went, Hawk felt
and unique to the basis of how felt you need
to be the asteroid That asteroid fel wasn't the cloud
city though, cloud City sitting in the clouds. The ships
they use, I mean you could talk about the updates
if you were from Lucas. You can like them, you
cannot like them. I like them. I got to add
a little more to it, but what they had to
work with it just felt more brighter, more sharper, more sharp.

(01:15:09):
That's the word. That's what uses it for me. Empire
strikes back. Visuals to be are sharp and crystal clear.
Done felt like there's a haze on them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Ooh, I don't agree with you at all.

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
It is not hazy because they revampted for four K
and pretty much redone the visual effects. The original visual
effects are way clunkier.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Yes, for the time, yes, But because of that time
it is impressive how clear they look.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
But we're talking about the movies right now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
No, I know I'm saying, I'm saying there it's crystal
I get that argument, but I still think Empire was
more original, felt more revolutionary. I still look at Empire.
I think Empire looks better, like a better movie. Visually,
it looks like a better movie than Dune does. I
think kind of matches it into each other. It kind
of feels like I've seen this before in a lot
of ways, I don't think there's anything like that was

(01:15:59):
terribly like. I look at it and go, holy shit,
I've never seen something like this before.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
But I think I think you're that's when you're looking
at Dune Part two. You so this is where the
visual effects are seamless. To me, I'm not thinking, oh,
that's a cool way how they did it. It all
feels natural part of the world. Different settings have their
own characteristics. Whereas Empire, I'm watching that movie Man that

(01:16:27):
was revolutionary at that time, can't believe they did that,
but it feels produced made. It doesn't feel natural. And
I know it's weird to talk about natural, won't talking
about sci fi.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
But you notice the effects in Empire, whereas Dune Part
two are like, this feel has lived in this, This
feels real. I could believe that everything, all the explosions,
everything were done practically. I could not tell where the
CGI and the practical effects end because it just feels
like they've shot the end tire thing doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
But that's exactly the case. Though. The argument has always
been made that Star Wars' best success because because that
sci fi world felt lived in, and it does feel
lived and the ships are there, they're grimy, they're not.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Compared to it doesn't, I do agree, Compared to do
in part two, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
I think they both looked. I think they looked. I
think they both looked lived, and I think Empire more.
I think the slickness of Dune looks more crystallized and
more than in a land that's full of dust and
dirt and grime. If you're not in the Fremen area,
then it's like this weird dichotomy of colors and everything else.
I'll say it's a failure of the sequel trilogy if

(01:17:39):
you want to talk about that. I know we're bringing
up toys something like sometimes Kylo Renship and they are
very clean and sci fi looking, which I think is
a failure in the sequel trilogy. Now Seul trilogy. Fen
it's I'm not knock going to the sequels solet's put
it that way. But as far as that was, Empire
felt dirty, felt lived, and felt grimy. I felt the
oppression there, Dune. I feel I just like I said,

(01:18:01):
I don't feel anything inspiring in that. Honestly, I didn't.
I didn't feel inspired by it at all. It was good,
but I felt like it was like I'm taking this
and I'm making this look good. But Empires like I'm
making something new and exciting and making it look That's
why I think I gotta give it to the Empire.

(01:18:25):
Go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
There is a reason why I wanted to do the
tab break, because this is one of the ones that
I found most difficult with. You both make a very
compelling argument about the use of visual effects. I took
this as more of the visuals overall, not just there
the effects used. Which movie to me had the more

(01:18:48):
striking moments. Now with Empire, you have the you have
the shot of the bat eight is like coming through
the snow. You have the sillow a Vader in the
choir chamber.

Speaker 6 (01:19:02):
You have Luke laying there with Vader standing over him.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
There's more striking womens to me and doing Part two
than there is embire. You have Paul holding the knife,
standing over the fremen, the shot at the open, with
the with the job what's the name of the army

(01:19:30):
or like going over putting it down.

Speaker 6 (01:19:32):
I haven't even given my thing yet, you know with this, brother,
you don't know where I'm going with this, just that
little imprint of the three of them. But then I
was watching an interview with Dannie about the construction of
the scene where Paul tame shihalud Mm hmm. What went
into that of using the three different kind of soundstage

(01:19:57):
rigs and doing it? Everything had to be done at
a certain type of the day, just so the sun
would hit perfectly on the shot for the way Denied
wanted it to be. That could be very easily done
on a sound stage. Could have easily gone in and
done that on the volume, this man chose not to.

(01:20:18):
He put his actors through brutal heat, torture, damn near
to get the shots that he want.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
And even the.

Speaker 6 (01:20:29):
Arena scene, Austin Butler said that was help for him
to shoot, but he kept doing it. But it comes
back all this being said, it comes back to the
moments that sit with me the most, and there is
one that has stuck with me ever since I watched
Dune two. And it's the moment where Fade, Ratha and

(01:20:50):
Paul are facing off against each other after they've just
done made Thy Knife, Chip and Shatter, and they're about it.
They're both standing there. To me, that looked like an
oil painting. It looked like it looked like a piece
of art that I could hang on the wall.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
And Vader standing at the top of the steps.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
I'm not saying it didn't. I'm not saying it didn't.
I'm just saying during part two you had.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
More, which, by the way, Ryan, that's what That's what
he was talking about, the shadow and the crowd, not
in the crowd chamber, but in the scene with the
croutch and we're standing at the top of the steps.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
When at the top of the steps and you have
that that and like the Old Ship moment when the
door's open, Hans Blasta comes flying out of his hand
and it's Vader catching it. You're like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Ship, and the carbon freezing chamber alone takes it. That's
a number one. That's IoT to mention that part of
the little carbon Freezing Chamber revolutionary. The time I love
that bit.

Speaker 6 (01:21:42):
Doing Part two has more more of those moments that
I'm just like that didn't even get into that shot
looks fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Vader takes a cake from me on that. I didn't
get into that aspect of it. So I will take
a little rebuttal and say, Invader doing that. You talk
about the they did to have the snow fighters sho
down through the legs of the of the Ada as
they are swine by because the camera work as it
goes flying through the space through that. There is so
many more like little bits of that that, like, I mean,

(01:22:15):
they made potatoes into asteroids and they look like freaking asteroids.
Talk about whatever, you didn't use the volume and you yeah,
they use potatoes as asteroids and you leave their asteroids.
That to me, he says right there, why Empire needs
to win this. But also visualization, just the pure moments
that you talking about, the Vader shadows sequence, Luke Yoda
lifting the X, swimming out of the out of the

(01:22:37):
swamp as it goes, Luke out of his head with
floating muppets around. Uh, there's just the there is just
so much more. Like Dune is too, too, has some
good moments But as far as iconic memory moments, I
think the only thing in twenty years that people are
gonna remember it will be the will be Paul on

(01:22:57):
top of the thing other things. That's the poster moment,
shanks back.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
I think there's iconic moments.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
I'm just saying beautiful moments, like like shots that like.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Memorable iconic moments. Remember, the iconic moments are going to
stand out. Santatasa time I watched you in two five times.
That's the only side that like kind of like throws
me as like when it's the standard stand like for years,
like remember think about doing that. You might think about
Paul writing the writing sand Worm. Maybe that's something that
could do that. But overall empires.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
I'm seeing, Dude, the best scene in the movie, I
mean the ship where a fade wroth on her chick
kind of remember his name.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
By the played by the Bond girl.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
I mean that is like a dark it's totally different,
vicious looking.

Speaker 6 (01:23:47):
Ship licks the blade ye like motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
And it's not derivative that Colosseum moment. It's it's not
doesn't look like Gladiator. It's completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Luke standing up to Vader, whether with the boxes being
thrown it on the glass breaking vader in the hallway,
the Millennium falcon flying to space throwing like going to
tie fighters. That cinemat just like it's part of the
visuals though, visuals. You're talking visuals that I'm gonna play

(01:24:21):
dirty and bring out all the visuals that if I
have to.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Cinematography is one of the best cinematographies in sci fi movies.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
I mean m even.

Speaker 4 (01:24:32):
Even just shohnny And and Paul kissing on a desert dune.
The camera like does a panic shot, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Sorgeous planet.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Mm hmm, sorry, you're fired. I'm definitely fired. Well, I
guess that finishes it up. Then that finishes up the case.
That's all of our categories and the winner. The Empire
strikes back eight to seven, eight to seven. I will

(01:25:11):
take it that. I would take the victory for where
it is. I am dismayed that it was so close,
but I will allow you to keep your jobs because
at least the right one, righteousness, as Wesley Snipes says, said,
righteous righteous Ever to chat chime in what you think?

(01:25:36):
How do you think we were right? Do you think
we were wrong? William Harold saying Justice Star Wars trilogy
is still gonna be watching in forty fifty years. Will
Dune's to be watching twenty forty fifty years. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
I haven't even been five.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
Yeah, give you time the correct choice. Yes, Empire overcame
election for that's right, that's right. Stop the count, stop
the count. The Empire has won. You feel in, gentlemen,
I know how you feel after that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
I feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
I feel good in your mut to just say, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Jarviy sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
I knew that Empire was gonna win. There was no
contest here. So the fact that the wheel smiled to
us and I actually did change one of my choices,
which was not on purpose. It wasn't because I want
to give doing more. I actually did like Maddie's reasoning
a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
I believe, and I believe that all of us here
actually made the I don't think any of us said anything.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
We didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
I honestly say that I am saying the same thing.
I didn't say anything.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
I didn't believe you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Look in my cheat sheet, I think you said it
says the same thing. The only thing I gave I
addittionally gave you individuals. But I gave it to Empire
this time because of like I did the sound design thing.
It was the same argument. My initial thought was to
give doing visuals for the same reason, but I listened
to the sound design and the creativity behind it, which
is what tweaked me. The sound design also tweaking visuals,
same type of thing. It's creativity behind it made it

(01:26:56):
more important to me, more more, more long lasting words.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
I wonder, I wonder if you hadn't kept score, your
choices would have been different, and that bothers me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
It wouldn't been. It wouldn't have been because that's the
only because that's the only I I. Like I said before,
it was the sound design thing. I hadn't had the
sound design argument at one point I hadn't looked back
on the sound design that I wouldn't known otherwise. It
is what it is. We have arrived where you belong.
Miss Douglas has said, and justice, my friends, has been served.

(01:27:31):
I'm not going to cancel that because we got to
talk anyway. But justice has been served. But you believe
it or not, we're back at class action next month.
I'm not sure what we're doing yet, probably something a
little less heeded. I'm gonna guess because I don't know
what we could do that could possibly America. I did
use a pencil. Hey, I don't need your I don't
need your help. Right, I did use a pencil. I

(01:27:52):
could erase things, that's true. I could have erased it,
but I didn't. You Jarge, you're keeping count too when.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
You're yeah, I didn't stop.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
It was eight seven.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
We don't need a one, Flannagan.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
So this is this is on tape, on digital tape,
so we can go back and this episode gets deleted accidentally.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
We know what happened, all right, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Yeah, we'll have to figure out what we're doing next
month and I can try to do this. We're gonna try
to get together once a month and do this. You
have a Mission Impossible coming out soon ish, so you
could have Maddie could bring back to classified as well.
Maybe even Jarvy could do a good classified episode there. Yeah,
well done one of those in a while. It's either
but anyway, good to have you guys here always in
the show. I'm glad we have to do it, even

(01:28:35):
though we can't do it like we used to, at
least have like you know, once a month is still
get a good way to go go into the court system.
We'll figure out we're gonna do and I'll let you
guys all know, uh, so we can do it next month. Jarvy,
work on the folks.

Speaker 4 (01:28:46):
Find you on Facebook and Instagram, Instagram, Richard Eric Jarvey
and that's about it. I'm not on X I'm not
on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Okay, Maddie, how about you?

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
You can find me at Matthewmona on everywhere other than Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Yuh, I mean that politics you on the old Blue skyutes.
I love this place, uh and so placed beyond pines versus.
That'd be very interesting for sure. I do like the
idea you find me all over this channel. Obviously, as
Maddie would say, my name is Linten. Uh you're seeing.
Let's say we got holy snokes. Every week we do

(01:29:21):
Star Wars me and Maddie. This week, Maddie's back, by
the way after we had to get a little unfortunate
instance last week which made me do a live stream
by myself. But we're gonna we're gonna take our category,
our story we were gonna do last week, which is
the five best Star Wars Disney era characters we're gonna
do that. I saved that, I held it off, I
just didn't use instead, So we'll do that this week
on Holy Snokes. I do review every other week with Lego.

(01:29:43):
We're going into the second season now where stuff as
goes in. That should come out on Wednesday, and uh
then we're gonna go on the big finish Audio V
reboot that they did, which is really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Just came out.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Not a big huge fan of audio stuff, usually just audiobooks.
This is pretty cool to listen to. Of course, PJ
and I to meet if we're white. Tues on Film Tomorrow,
we are filming Freddy is Dead, the Final Nightmare, getting
through the Nightmare, and I'll just street zakay bit early
and every week except for this one, I do my
Queen podcast Crown Jewels with my trip to New York City.
I just kind of ran out of time, so I'll
have to take this week off for Crown Jewels and
I'll come back next week before we continue on the

(01:30:19):
Queen one Collector's Edition box set revisiting those tracks. We
have new tracks to listen to. But that's it then
for this and we will see you next time on
Class Action A month from now, and you know, maybe
place beyond the pines or drive it might be the
way to go. We'll have to say, but we'll see.
We're gonna see what happens. Until then, of course, justice

(01:30:39):
has been sir,