How I Became The Worlds Best DJ With Only One Arm Black Coffee

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We just had this sound and it was a car
just rammed through the crowd and I just splecked out.
I hardly had a childhood. I was always working and
I used to hate it growing up because I just

(00:20):
felt like, when when am I going to become a child,
you know and play like other kids? The tenth of February.
Tell me about that day, man, I was a scary
thing for me. When I went to the hospital. No
one knew what to do. I would literally close my eyes.
I wouldn't know whether I's here or here or here,

(00:42):
So it was paralyzed at that point. Yeah. I stayed
for three months in the hospital, you know, and that
depressed me even more. Music helped me so much. It
brought to me peace. This is why I share it.
It's my way of healing people the same way it
killed me my childhood. Where come from? Those things scare me?

(01:04):
What do those things scare you? Because this is the story,
yet it was for years hard for WA to share.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
So what happened is, before this conversation starts, I've got
a favor to ask from you. Seventy four percent of
people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the
subscribe button, and nine percent of people haven't yet hit
the bell to ten notifications on. The bigger this platform gets,
the bigger the guests get. So if you could do
me one favor, if you've ever enjoyed this podcast, please

(01:31):
hit the subscribe button and turn itifications on without further ado.
I'm Stephen Butlert, and this is the diar of a CEO.
I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please
keep this yourself. So the question that I always started
this podcast with because I studied childhood psychology for a

(01:53):
little while and it was illuminating to me how much
of our early years end up defining and shaping us
who you become. So that early context, before twelve years old,
what did that look like for you?

Speaker 1 (02:08):
When I was born, my parents were married, my mom
was super young. I was the first one two other
siblings at the time. My mom married very extremely young,
probably like twenty two to twenty three, already with the
kids divorcing. We were moved to live with our grandmother

(02:33):
from the maternal side, and she's the one who raised us,
and she used to work in a general hospital in
a sewing room. But I saw her working extremely hard
to go for everything she wanted, you know, Like I
look back and try to imagine how much money she

(02:56):
was earning, and look at the achievements, like her mad
house into a big, designed, respectable house. And she did
this bit by bit by bit. And as a kid
I was then I saw it. Whatever little money should

(03:16):
have she would buy the bricks. I would wait. She'd
buy sand. It waits, you buy gravel, It waits, everything slowly.
So that's what I learned from her, like to be
a setive. You wake up, you go work. Also the
strongest thing that I learned from her, she had cows,

(03:37):
and she was the only woman in the area you know,
who had cows, you know. And she was a single woman.
And my job was to every morning go milk the
cows before I go to school every afternoon after school,
so I hardly had a childhood. I came time to play.

(03:59):
As a child, I was always working five o'clock five
thirty from eleven years old, every single day. And that
was my environment, you know, where I'm like, okay, whatever
you need, you just you have to work. There's no
other way. And so for the few years she would

(04:23):
make sure I'm up. She would make sure, you know,
I'm on time, And eventually it was my thing. She
didn't have to wake me up, she didn't have to
tell me when to go. She didn't have to If
there was a problem with the cars, I knew what
was wrong. If I needed to get medication from the pharmacy,
you know, I understood everything. Eventually it became my thing.

(04:44):
You know, that's my childhood. Where was your father? My
father remained in turban and remarried, so he started another family.
He worked in a factory. They for a comedy called Bacon.
They made sweets and chocolates. That's where he worked, and

(05:10):
he just didn't have He was a nice guy, but
he wasn't present, you know, so on holidays we go
see him, you know, he would have nothing to say.
He wasn't the guy who's like, how was your day,
how was school? You know, and he advised type of thing.

(05:33):
You know, he wasn't. It was just like the way
he was, you know. Yet my grandmother was then she
was the man and a woman. So she's the one
who basically and I used to hate it growing up
because I just felt like, well, when when am I
going to become a child You know and play like

(05:55):
other kids. And she was like this, she was super straight,
was like setive, hard working. You know, that's hardly time
to do like all the like the games like other
kids are doing. You know. So I grew up with
that kind of focus, which I hated because I wanted

(06:17):
to be a kid, you know. But then it taught
me so much about just work, having a work earthache,
and that's how I'm able to just pick up and
and leave whatever I can. You know.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I always referenced this conversation I had with the with
the guy that trained Michael Jordan and Kobe, and he
told me that, you know, these things when we're young,
they end up being the consequence of our of our greatness,
of our talent, these hard these hardships we have, but
they also always come with a cost. So the lack
of play, the lack of a father figure, the situation
of you growing up in a house where you didn't

(06:59):
have a lectricity, your milking cows, your your you know
your food is cooked by you, creating a fire, et cetera.
What is what is the cost? I can the lesson
and the value it gave you is so clear, but.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Lots one of them is just being to myself, you know,
to a point where I have a very small sickle
of friends because I was never just a social guy,
you know. So I was as a kid, I always

(07:39):
had to do all the work alone because your friends
will sometimes come, you know, but then they realized, okay,
every day, you know, so they're not going to always come.
So I was always like a loner growing up. And
then I kind of like got comfortable with that, got

(08:00):
comfortable with trusting my thoughts and my decisions, you know,
like being confident in just myself without needing people, you know,
And that has like affected a lot of like personal
relationships where if I just feel a little bit and easy,

(08:24):
I would just remove myself. And it's not hard for
me because I'm like what I really know is myself,
you know. But it's something I want to start working
on because I'm quick to create a comfortable space. You know.

(08:48):
I can meet a stranger and I'm quick too, just like,
but I'm much quicker to move as well, you know.
And it's it's something that I feel it's not like real,
you know, but it's doable because I'm always on the
move and and and you know, but there are things

(09:14):
that I'm like, I need to work on, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Typically, you know, I think there's a bit of a
stereotype that that black men aren't the best at emotions,
and some people point out sort of generational cycles for that.
Did you learn how to express your emotions when you
were young?

Speaker 1 (09:31):
No, it was terrible at it and there was no one.
Like I said, my grandmother was quite tough. So and
I look at how I am with my kids. You
can see when you've pushed a little bit hard, you know,
in conversation with someone, and you're able to bring them back,

(09:55):
you know, and explain like, look, I'm sorry, you know
I was a bit loud, this is why, and you know,
like so that they understand all the dynamics, you know.
And the older generation was the one that will whip you,
you know, and tell you it's gonna hurt me more

(10:17):
than it hurts you, and that's it. You'll get over
it because as a child you have unconditional love for
your parent. You'll eventually get over it. And you're the
one coming back making jokes like nothing happened, you know.
But I didn't have like a good role model in anything,

(10:41):
even this, you know, I used to like avoid I
still do this ah doing interviews because there's just again
society pressure that if I'm good at making music, am

(11:03):
I good in public speaking? So if I play songs
nice and I role models to your children more than you,
you know, but society will say, oh, we don't act
this way. My kids look up to you, And I'm like,
but I'm just a DJ who's living his life, and

(11:26):
all of a sudden, it's like no, no, no, but
you can't. You can't do it like this because it's you,
you know. So in the beginning, all I wanted to
do was just play music like I was that kid.
Even if I'm not invited at a part, I bring
my record box and I wait and I hope they
give me a chance. You know. That's all I wanted

(11:48):
to do. Why music, Because it's always been my escape,
you know in that house where I used to leave
and I did was working then in my room. Music
helped me so much to dream of these moments, you know,
like if I listened to to Michael Jackson, I imagine

(12:11):
where he leaves or in America and that one day
I goes there. You know, that's it. It really like
took me to all these places, so it became my friend,
you know, And I never had an explanation as to
even then what I would do with it. Like when

(12:36):
I finished high school, I'm like, I'm going to call
to college and study. And my cousins were like, are
you crazy? Then? What are you going to do? I
didn't know. Do you want to be teacher? I'm like, no,
but this is what I want to do. As long
as I was surrounded by by music, that's all I
wanted to do, you know, because it just it brought

(12:57):
me so much peace happen. Yes, you know, and this
is why I showed it. I showed because of Faddy
does to me. You know, it's my It's my way
of healing people the same way it healed me. I

(13:18):
don't know if I'm making sense, make perfect sense. You know.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I sat here and I sat with the biggest comedians
in his country, and typically with comedians, the stereotype is
that the comedian is depressed. So they started cracking jokes.
And then one of the comedians came here and said
to me, he said, you shouldn't be asking. You should
never ask a comedian if they're depressed, because it's usually
that they were doing comedy because one of their parents

(13:42):
were depressed, so comedy became away for them to see
a smile on their mother's face for the first time,
or to see their father smile for the first time.
Music and the role it played in your household and
just in your environment outside of yourself. I was wondering,
as you're saying that, is it also something that created
happiness and others when you were young that you saw,

(14:03):
like your your family or your Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Before we moved to my grandmother's place in the Ace
and Cape, the structure of my family back then was
my entire family lived in one house, or not entire,
but my father and his brothers, so there was about

(14:30):
four families. And that's where music was. Like I think
you know, one of my uncles, my father's brother, I
had like a small called them ghetto blasters. Yeah, yeah,
so he was the music guy. He loved reggae, used
to play reggae a lot. That's where my first love

(14:52):
for regay came from. Like anything as a kid, I
used to no different. Peter Tosha was Bob Marley and
the Whalers and all that kind of music, and every
now and then then it will be the pop that
was happening at the time, and he will take it
out and all of us will be out there and
we'll dance. You know. Ah, That's that's my eliest childhood

(15:17):
memory with music is that in that big family and
it's hot and it's summer and we're just all outside
and he plays the music and how we dance. Anything
with music you'd find me. That's why I never knew
what I would do with it, you know, but I
just knew wherever it is. Sometimes they will send me

(15:37):
to the shops and in the township. Sometimes it will
be like a big Coca Cola truck, maybe they're promoting
a new flavor and it's parking this they play music.
They send me to buy bread, and I don't come
back literally because I'm just there, like I'm just listening
to music. You know, I don't leave literally, and I

(15:59):
can trouble, you know. So wherever there was music, that's
how I got into it. Because my cousin who's also
our neighbor, he and his friend had a mobile sound system,
so they were doing weddings like graduation parties and and
so during the week, you'll have the sound system connected
like just small speaker and you play loud music and

(16:21):
I'll go there. So I spent days there and then
I started like they used to use like cassettes and
you rewind with the pen. So that's how I started.
And I would like learn, and I was curious, and
then they will take me to the day parties. Then
I'll be there opening DJ, you know. But I was

(16:41):
so curious that I developed a style of playing. You know.
I was a little bit advancing, understanding tempos of the songs,
and so I wouldn't just randomly play. I would play
songs that were close together in temple, and so all

(17:04):
of a sudden, the mixes were like almost flawless, and
people were like, then I became their main DJ, you know.
By fourteen fifteen, I was like their main DJ, and
the people booking them would tell them, bring that black boy.
I was like, super dark as a kid, bring him,
you know. And then I was more cheers. Then I

(17:26):
started collecting records. Then I bought ten tables and for
my own and they bring the system. I plug more things,
you know. And then when I finished school and I
moved to another city, back to Devon, where there was
more access to things, and I really got into it.
So I was studying chairs and music, but I was

(17:48):
a DJ on the side, and sometimes I would bring
tentables into the school studio. You know. It was such
a fascinating thing for the jazz student because we were
there like learning chess scales and like the theory of music,
and I'm here with my DJing equipment. You know. At

(18:11):
some point, actually, while I was a jazz student and
a DJ, I did a classical play, like all three
at the same time, you know, because learning a friend
of mine in the hall way at school, because we
were in the choir. We were singing one of the
songs we sang in high school in the choir. In

(18:34):
one of the school lecturers had us and she was
shocked because we were jazz students. She was like, wow,
you guys, you know this is classical music. Like you
sound so nice. There's a play that's happening at the
playhouse called The Pirates of Penzance if you were like cool,
So we went, we auditioned. We got the pards, so

(18:56):
we would do chess studies after school. We go practice
at the playhouse and we went to perform. We did
I was opening the show like I was a tenor,
you know, just anything that I had to do with music,
so from jazz when I was young, sorry, reggae. Then

(19:20):
I went through different stages and there was a time
where I was like obsessed with like fusion then gospel
music than classical music, and I didn't understand what I
was being prepared for. You know, all these years, I
kept being exposed to different types, and I'm a DJ,

(19:41):
so then my taste varies based on understanding these different genres.
That's why I was able to in twenty ten do
a show with the twenty four piece orchestra because yeah,
in the stadium. So because I was exposed to this
music and I knew where to bring. You know, the

(20:02):
tenth of February, pivotal day in your life. Tell me
about that day, man, nineteen ninety. Yeah, I was talking
to someone about it because it's a story. It was
for years. Its hard for me to share, you know,
and I'm in a better space now I'm able to

(20:24):
talk about it. Street grandmother. We're at home on the tenth,
which was like around eight at night, and she was
super strict, no one comes out of the house that late.

(20:44):
We were sitting in the house. I think after dinner
we hear like people singing outside. We all come out,
everyone comes out to see what's happening, and it was
people singing. There were a group of people about to
pass our house. We ran to the crowd, my cousins.
You know, we were not allowed to, but this was nice.
So there wasn't a big thing, I mean, for her,

(21:08):
but my cousin. My cousins went back. I didn't why music,
so I followed the crowd. And the reason this was
happening is because on the eleventh of February, Nelson Mandela
was officially coming out of jail after twenty seven years.

(21:29):
So there was like tribulations around the entire country. This
was happening in all the major cities where people were like,
we're going to stay up all night until the morning,
you know, of his release. So this crowd was going
to a stadium which is close to my house. That's

(21:50):
where the camping was going to be, the singing until
the morning in the stadium. So they went on the
streets basically gathering more crowds, and we went out close
to the stadium and just out of nowhere, we just
had this sound and it was a car just came

(22:11):
out of nowhere, lights off, just rammed through the crowd.
So I was I was not in the front, but
I was maybe like twenty percent in and I just
blecked out and people were screaming, and when I woke up,

(22:34):
there was fire. You know, people were angry. So basically
this driver switched off the lights to literally just kill
people with this car. And so they bent the car
where they bent the guy too, and they burned the guy.

(22:55):
They pulled him out of the car and killed him literally,
and he stayed there for hours actually without anyone coming
for him, because I remember just hab it. Around four
in the morning, went to a hospital. Around minutes later,
the cars took us to hospital. I came back from

(23:17):
the hospital around seven eight. He was still there. I
not even covered his car. He was still lying there
on the ground. That cost his life and someone else's
life who was also in the crowd. So by that time,
I mean it's seven in the morning. I'm back from hospital.

(23:40):
The announcement happens. Nelson Mandella is finally out of jail.
We're watching this from TV. I'm sitting on the couch.
You know, there's just chaos in the country. People are
so happy. This meant his finally out. And I was
on the ouch in pain, you know, after the accident,

(24:04):
and I think, what really happened to me. I don't
think the car reached to me. I don't think the
car touched me. I think the force of the people
that were in front because of the impact, they pushed
so hard. So what happened is I dislocated my shoulder,

(24:26):
but severely. I had no bruises, no cars. It just
came off, meaning my nerves that connect the arm to
the body were snatched. And being in a small town
when I went to the hospital, no one knew what

(24:48):
to do. So I'm there, I'm holding my arm like
they don't know if it's broken, They don't know what
to do with it, you know. So they just gave
me a sling and paint tablets and I went back home,
but the pain was couldn't stop. And then the following
day then I went to Dervan, which is the biggest

(25:10):
city to go to like a bigger hospital, where I
stayed for three months in the hospital, you know, and
even that they didn't know what to do. One morning
they were like, okay, we figured it out. They put
a cast, so I'll have a cast for like two weeks.
But the damage was here. But I was a kid

(25:31):
as well, so I didn't understand, you know. So it
danger is called breakshaal plexus, which is the damage of nerves,
and there's nothing you can do to fix damage nerves.
They can only fix themselves, so over time, so they
tried different things. At some point, I remember I was

(25:53):
being taken to like a specialist to see if there
was life on my arm, so because they were thinking
of amputating my arm, so they put this device that
had electricity to see if it's gonna I'm gonna feel it,

(26:13):
and there was just like probably like five percent of
life and he was like, no, we don't have to
do it. Over time, they never will grow back. And
that's what has happened, you know. And as a kid,
I when I was fourteen, it was life changing, you know.
The things that I wasn't able to do, the activities,

(26:38):
there was just things I couldn't. I was in a
music class, you know, so I couldn't participate on the
piano like lessons and we used to play recorders and
so I went through a phase where it really affected me.
And just over time, I was like, actually, I have

(27:03):
a life to live. When you say you went through
a phase, what really affected you? What does that mean? Like?
Why me? I mean, I mean when you are born,
find all of a sudden and kids can be mean.
So the name callings comes and you know, because also
I thought he was going to pass and as I
can't even have dreams, you know, I wake up, I'm like, oh,

(27:25):
I had a dream last night my hand was working
and I was doing this and you know, and so
to me, it was like maybe next week and maybe
next month, you know, I'm going to be fine again.
And so I went through a lot of that, you know,
and then eventually acceptance, Okay, this is what it is.

(27:47):
You know, I have to leave, I have to move on.
And I kind of like stopped thinking about it and
just focused on what's next. Mhm. How do I learn
to tipe my shoes, you know, or just wake up

(28:10):
and do everything without calling for help. That was the
most important thing for me, because I didn't want to
feel sorry for myself. That's the most important thing. Where
I was like, I need to learn how to not
to call anyone for anything. Zero Like then that was

(28:31):
a big thing for me. What's the what conditions you
left your left arm? And now as we sit here,
it is gained probably like forty percent movement, and we
put it this way. When it happened, I would literally

(28:53):
close my eyes and I would know it was okay.
So it was paralyzed at that point, the whole arm,
I wouldn't know whether it's here or here or here
or you know. So over time I've started feeling things.
I can differentiate between hot water and cold water, and

(29:17):
every now and then, because that's another thing. I used
to fee the therapy a lot. And I was a kid,
and I used to for school. I go and I
trained and that, and that depressed me even more because
I was waiting for results, you know, and I thought,
I'm training for myself that wasn't coming. So I couldn't
see anything. And when I stopped, I stopped everything. I

(29:40):
stopped thinking about it, I stopped waiting for it to
be better. Except yeah, so even now it's like if
I woke up and it was fine, do I even
need it? That's where I met like it doesn't really matter,

(30:00):
you know. I think my life has turned out exactly
how it's supposed to.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
This happened to you when you were fourteen, but you
didn't share it with the world until twenty seventeen in
a Facebook post.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Because as an artist, I just felt like I did
not want to be seen as that guy who has
a disability, you know, where it's like, oh, you know,
like I didn't want a pety party, you know. I

(30:37):
just wanted to be understood and had like everyone else.
You know. So my first album came out in two
thousand and five. That's it. I just worked on music, releasted,
I said, TJ. The way, I don't really think Sky

(30:57):
he plays with his hand in his pocket, what's with that?
You know, like it looks cool about what's you know?
And I thought you were just the coolest one forever.
People would like because the hand thing in the pocket
happened when I was a kid, and because I used
to have the sling and even when I ran with
other kids and I used to have to hold his
hand because it was just moving everywhere. And one day

(31:21):
I was like, I just put it in the pocket
and I was like, damn, this is more functional than
having a sling. And I never stopped, you know, And
so it wasn't even a thing like that was like
so deep. It just happened when I was young, and
I was like, actually, I feel comfortable like this, and
over time it became you know, I think because also

(31:43):
being the intro of it that I am, it helps
me not explaining myself because everyone even now there's a
there's things that like that I'm support can buy them
from pharmacy. I have them, so when I'm home, I

(32:04):
use that, and or when I have people at my house,
I use it, or when I swim, and even people
who know me are like you, okay, what happened? You know?
These were things I was avoiding to be having to
explain myself all the time. Like you know, I was like,
I sit and I look no more like everyone else.

(32:26):
And there's people promise you in my life today who
don't know. And it's fine. Did it make you work
harder or have to work harder to get to where
you are? Definitely? Definitely, especially as a DJ, you know,

(32:50):
because I just felt like this thing was trying to
rob me off, this one thing that I really really love,
and I will not allow it, you know. So it
made me in that sense, not even in a sense
of who's going to employ me, I'm facked. My life
is a mess. It was like, if there's one thing

(33:12):
I'm not going to lose is music, you know, I
won't stop. I have to be a DJ. I have to.
I have to. And I'm from the cassette era to
the vinyl I mean, how do you take a vinyl
out of a vinyl package with one hand? And this
used to stress me. And when I look at it,

(33:34):
like how will I become a professional DJ? You know?
And it takes me not It took me not thinking.
I just like did it, you know, Like I'm like,
this is one thing I want to do. So I
just went all the way I would go to school.
I remember there was a time where I would spend

(33:56):
at least two hours every day DJ for I didn't
play for a club or every day two hours of
my time because and I used to say this, like
I just want to be ready, Like one day when
someone says you a DJ, I must boldly say yeah,

(34:17):
I'm you know, And I look now when I play it,
sometimes I'm like, man, you could I look at I'm
like wow, you know, because I developed the style you
know of playing that it's my own based on understanding

(34:43):
myself and what I can do. You know, I have
a friend Siander. We grew UPERTI is also a DJ.
And when I started, like back in the day, like really,
when I was spending time I'm practicing, I used to
be really crazy. And he says this all the time

(35:04):
that they don't even know how crazy you are because
now I don't do I don't do anything. I just play.
Less is more, you know, I'm more experienced now, but
my understanding of it is like on a different level,
you know. But I'm in a space where I'm like,
I don't have to do That's where I'm I think

(35:26):
I have to. I don't have to because I've been there.
It's like learning the basic course and you go to
an advanced course. You know, go advanced driving. Doesn't mean
you're going to come on the road and drive like
you way on the advanced driving school. You know, it's

(35:47):
just understanding and knowing. But when I look at this thing,
it's part of me.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
The yeah, quick word from one of my sponsors, I'm
super excited to announce that on new sponsor for the
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(36:17):
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(36:39):
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Speaker 1 (36:52):
Let me know what you think.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
My girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a
shower and she said to me that she tried the
Huale protein chake which lives on my fridge over there,
and she said it's amazing, low calories you get your
twenty odd grams of protein, You get your twenty six
fittamins and minerals, and it's nutritionally complete. In the protein space,
there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something
that is nice, especially when consumed just with water, and
that is nutritionally complete and that has about one hundred

(37:17):
calories in total while also giving you your twenty grams
of protein. If you haven't tried the Healed Protein product,
do give it a try. The salted caramel one, if
you put some ice cubes in it and you put
it in a blender and you try, it is as
good as pretty much any milkshake on the market, just
mixed with water. It's been a game changer for me
because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake and I'm

(37:39):
trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet.
So this is where Heel fits in my life. Thank you,
He're for making a product that I actually like. The
salted camel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here,
which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me,
salted caramel is the one. When you were asked, I
think you were in your early twenties. They asked you.
You know, I think you just was that around the
time you've done the Red Bull your early twenties, they

(38:03):
asked you in an interview, where you're going to be
in two years?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Do you remember? I was a scary thing for me.
I remember that. I'll never forget it, you know. I
don't think that was me talking, you know, I just
it was it was black coffee someone I wasn't yet,
you know, because I was never that guy. You know,

(38:30):
I didn't I didn't have I don't want to install
my schools and say I didn't have the right education.
But you know, I look at my kids' schools. When
they go to they learn public speaking. They know how
to present themselves, and they know how to get across
a point a point across, they know how to speak.
And I'm not from there. Everything that I kind of

(38:56):
like have, I had to figure it out myself, you know.
And so doing an interview then being asked this question,
and at the worst time of my life then and
and give that answer, because the question was where do
you see yourself? And I said, They said in two years,

(39:16):
and I said in five years. I just gave myself time.
I said, in five years, I'm going to be one
of the most important producers. I don't know if I
said of the continent or the country, you know, which
actually I'm proud of that because it could have been worse.
You know. I could have said, I want to be

(39:36):
number one, I'm going to be the betdest motherfucker. I
would have said something crazy like pampas. You know. My
answer was still like very modest, but I was clear
about what I wanted, you know. But after saying it,
I freaked out because then I realized I need to

(39:56):
own this. I need to own it, and I need
to then start working towards it, you know. And yeah,
and then two years later, which was the question, I
released my album and I won my first award for
Best Album, you know, which was low key. Then I

(40:19):
was the best producer in the genre in the country,
you know. But I think I don't know, like if
it's the awards that drive me or just success itself,
because there's the narratives at Oh, he's probably like I

(40:41):
get a Grammy, like he wants something more, he wants more,
he wants more, And I don't think I look at
things like that. I think I just know that I
can do more than in a world, I can do
more than an achievement. I can do more than you know.
I'm capable. That's it. That's what I'm I'm fighting for,

(41:07):
you know. And it's a little boy in me who
was milking cows, who had no friends, who was like
I can, especially coming from where I come from. And
that's it. It's never really about I'm the smartest one
and I'm going to be the best one. I'm the

(41:29):
most gifted one. It's just like I started with nothing.
I'm from like nowhere, really like so, and I had
nothing to lose, you know, So I threw myself in
and I just want to keep going.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
When you look back at the you know, you said
that in your early twenties. Two years later, your album
Wins Wins that amazing award, Your career continues to go
to the moon. When you look back in hindsight with
wisdom and say, ah, because I think it's always in
hindsight you go, that's why I got here. You've talked

(42:04):
about the obsessiveness. I get that. I get the drive
of the hunger, but as it relates to the creativity
and the craftsmanship and all the other things, why you
and why not some other young you know, South African
DJ from.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
The Eastern I think it's what I think, it's just
being intentional about what you want. The people I work
with from the beginning, there's all. It's just like the
goal is similar. We we don't try to I don't

(42:43):
think we chase number one, you know, we just we
we we just want quality. We strive for quality. We
understand the less is more concept. I've never and I've
treated this once in my country as well. I've never

(43:05):
gone for like O one song of the year. Those
things scare me. I just want to release music that
has the kind of substance that I love. What do
you think scare you? Because I just feel like then
you have to keep chasing the number one. So if
I am this year, then I must be next year.

(43:27):
Otherwise then there's a deep that's going to come with
that if I'm not. So we do what we're comfortable with,
because what we're comfortable with, we can do it again,
you know, and improve it and improve it. So the
goal is always the same, like not to try and
go mainstream. It's just be comfortable. You know. You can

(43:55):
wake me up tomorrow and be like, can you make
a song like Drive, I'll be like, I can probably
better than Oh, I can never make that song again,
because wow, you know it's in my space. You know,
everything is in my sound bank, everything I work with

(44:15):
is always around, you know. And also I think now
I'm clearer as to who I am as an artist.
You know, I'm more of I'll say sixty five D
that's where all my energy is, and then thirty five

(44:38):
percent producer. Having sat here.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
With with Diplo and other artists Jesse j the Boys
from One Direction, Liam Payne, what I heard over and
over again from them is that with success in music,
there becomes more authority, figures, record labels, et cetera, telling
you how you should sound and telling you that if
you sound like this, then you'll get a number one

(45:06):
and it'll be mainstream, et cetera, et cetera. How important
over the course of your career, as you look back,
has it been to try and stay true to yourself
despite the temptation to fit someone's.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
That's an easy part for us, you know, because first
of all, what am I looking for, Like what I've
just explained to you now is being more DJ than
it producer, So DJing pays our bills. That's our core business.

(45:39):
Therefore that's where we're going to be strongest. And releasing
music is the second part of the business, so it
being the second past part of the business means it's
not the main thing, and so there's no pressure in
then following all the trends that come and and I've

(46:04):
been quite fortunate in my career from the beginning. When
I released my first album, I released it with the
licensing deal, meaning I did it on my own and
I submitted, you know, to a label, so no one
could say, we don't like number five, take out number seven,

(46:26):
don't you want to fix number two? You know? It
was a down and package album. And that's been the
nature of my production career where the last album that
I did was the first album with a label in
the US where there was that authority, you know, and

(46:53):
it would mostly come as we're not sure about this one.
But what I did I separated my African releases from
the global releases. Therefore, when they're like we're not sure,
them like, it's okay, I'll release it in Africa where

(47:15):
I know it will make more sense and also it
fits the sound that I'm doing that I want to do,
you know. So I remember one of the songs I
released was a song called Your Eyes with the South
African Art School Chicano brilliant song and they were like
mm hm ah released it and immediately after it came

(47:39):
out they changed their minds. They were like, Okay, maybe not,
We'll also release the song, you know, because we were
not following what they want, you know, and we were
cool with it, you know. Then after I released an
epic called Music Is King, which was purely purely for
like the African markets because even now I don't have

(48:05):
a label, so I don't have to have these conversations
about what song I want to do and how does
it sound. But still when I do, my team knows
I want to separate the two. Africa must be on
his own because one day I may wake up and
be like, I've always been a fan of Salificata. I

(48:27):
want to do a song in salif Cata. I want
to do a song with Salificata, being a Grammy winning artist.
If you put that song on an album, that album
might not be nominated on the Dance Electronic album because
the language is foreign. They will take that album and

(48:48):
shelve it with the world music. That means you're competing
against your African brothers and sisters, which is what I
really hate. Oh My point is I then separate the two.
If I want to do a single with an African artist,
I can do that. If I'm not do like a

(49:10):
Grammy quality kind of work, I can still do it.
But I'm fortunate not to have those kind of gatekeepers
and authorities that tell me no. And I can understand
with the deeplos in them, you know that their structures
are different. But we we're fortunate too, we've structured our things.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Well, how many shows, so you said sixty percent DJing,
how many shows do you do in a busy year.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
I don't know. Man Ibiza this summer, I think I
did twenty one just Abiza alone, all Saturdays at high right. Yeah, yeah,
I was there for two of them. So just Saturdays
alone in USA, like twenty one of them and something
then since May. So meaning every weekend Thursday, Friday and

(50:04):
somewhere else Sunday and somewhere else every weekend every weekend,
So Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and Sunday. Yeah, sometimes
you're gonna be flying around that's why we do. Yeah,
so before high, I'm somewhere else. After High, I'm somewhere else.
Like I had a show here on a Sunday yesterday,

(50:27):
I have shown Tuesday tomorrow, you know. So sometimes it's Tuesday,
sometimes it's Wednesdays. But every summer it's like for every Saturday,
there's a Thursday and the Friday and a Sunday. Sometimes.
How many shows is that in a year? Though?

Speaker 2 (50:42):
If you were to add up, is it because I
read that it was more than a hundred and fifty?

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Sometimes no, it is, Yeah, definitely that's a lot of shows.
I think.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I you know, I had I did my little tour
of this podcast and we did nine and I was
fucking nacked in two months, and I was like, wait
another year before I do that because of the adrenaline
and all the feelings and emotion and the performance and
it's late and whatever else.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
How how no, I think at this point, I mean,
this is what we do. You know, if you look
at them. You made a reference about Michael Jordan and
Cole can you imagine like the hours they spend like
to get to that level, you know, it becomes second nature,

(51:33):
you know, the first thing that comes to mind is
that little boy milking cows like this is a blessing.
So nine shows it must have made good money for
you to complain. I don't think we made any money,
but you're like, I'm done. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I do wonder because you know, I hear about the
kid that was milking the cows with no electricity back
in back in South Africa, and you know, sometimes my
fear is that that kid is going to when that
kid becomes an adult, he will make decisions which will
compromise other needs because he's so Definitely, at some point,

(52:22):
as you said before, I think we start recording, you've
got to step out of survival at some point we live.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
That's why therapy is such an important thing, you know
for us. I mean, I've had so many different conversations
with South Africa artists. Some I've had conflict with, and
you know, when we meet and try to solve the conflict,
I'm like, let me tell you what's going to help
all of us is therapy, Because how do I go

(52:53):
from being that boy, you know, living in the same
community where like no one even looked at me, you know,
and you first forward, I'm coming back to that same community,
like in a Lamborghini and everyone wants a picture and
it's a it's a mind fact just to me, you know.

(53:17):
So you need to really work on yourself when you
cross that line where it's like someone you looked up
to uh as a kid. You know, this guy is
so successful and you realize that actually you are the
successful one. So how is the shift and even in

(53:38):
respecting that person, you know, because then one is like
I'm the king now, you know. Then another is like
You're still the king. You did this before me. I'm
paying so much respects to you. So it's a very
thin line between seeing yourself as a king over everyone

(54:00):
else or knowing you are and still respecting everyone else.
And that's the balance for me. And it took me
such a long time and I'm still battling and I'm
working on it, and I'm a little bit better now
in understanding the difference between Nati and black coffee.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
What is the difference between Natty and black coffee? The
little boy and yourself as a djer. Black coffee has
all the privileges, right, Like.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
It's a joke in my house and sometimes when I
when I go eat in a restaurant and I think late,
my damn, I need to go, and you know, and
I tell my sister please boke and then she's like, oh,
well not now she is to happen like that. She's like, oh,
it's fully booked. And then I'm like no, but just
tell them who's calling. And then she's like, oh yeah, yeah,

(54:51):
table for two sorted. You know, those are the pecks
of those are black coffee pecks where it's if nating cold,
the restaurant is full. If black coffee called, there's a
seat for you, there's a table for you. So Nat

(55:12):
is the kid that grew up going through magazine and
seeing model girls, you know, like thinking, wow, if one
day I can have a girlfriend like this, right, that's Nati.
But nat he never had access to that. I never
would given where it comes from. But black coffee has

(55:38):
access to that. So then sometimes Nazi uses black coffee,
you know, to to satisfy Nati, where it's like instead
of saying hi, I'm Naty, it's oh, you're black coffee,
and I'm like, yeah, I understand. So it's a it's

(56:02):
two different things to a point where even where I
live now, it's crazy. But that's how it is. Where
I first bought myself a house. This is with my
developed four story that's not even final. I moved out
of the house, so I'm like, life is going to
be so dope, you know now that I'm a single

(56:22):
guy and I live in this apartment. And in between tours,
I go back and like wow, and then toys over.
I'm back home. I'm sitting and I'm like, this is
my life, you know, Like I just the house I left,
I just finished building. Now I live in an apartment

(56:43):
like a student. Let me look for a house for myself.
Then I look for a house and I found it.
So I have the house. But now I'm like it's
a big house, but it's slowly because I'm from family,
I live alone. So I'm like, Mom, don't you want
to move and come stay with me? Which I think
it's a noble thing. You know. My mom had like
a heart problem, so she moves, and then now I

(57:05):
have the warmth of the family. Right It's nice, And
I'm like, but it is this my life, Like I
live with my mother, so means I can't bring my
friends here. Like I kind of have a little partty
because my mom is in the other room. And then
it bothers me so much, and I think I remember

(57:26):
having a conversation with my friend. I'm like, man, I
love it. But at the same time I even told her,
you know, I'm like I just feel like this can
be you know. I'm like, I'm about to finalize my
divorce and I live with my mother, you know. And
the most incredible thing happened. I got a phone call

(57:49):
just that week when it was stressing me so much,
I got a phone call. So now I don't know,
I'm like, yo, and then this guy's like, my name
is Michael, I'm your neighbor. And we have this long
conversay on the phone, and then it's like, by the way,
I'm selling my house and I'm going away, we're moving
to another country and just letting you know as a neighbor.

(58:13):
And I was like, oh, thank you God, because it
was like a solution. So I bought the neighbor's house.
And in my crazy head, the neighbor's house, that's where
my mom and children are going to stay. That's a
Nazi house, right, So that's where you're going to find

(58:35):
me on the floor on the grass playing with my children.
The next door. That's the Black Coffee House. I want
to come to the Black Coffee House, you know. But
the thing is about the Black Coffee House, which is
what before we started recording, you're asking me what's on
my mind, and I was telling you Legacy, Legacy, legacy.

(58:55):
I want to build Black Coffee House as a like
a Black coffee house. I would be like a future
Black coffee house. Okay, not a current Black coffee house,
no current, but it will be a future. This is
where he used to live, okay. You know. So I'm
very much intentional about the things I collect, the art

(59:17):
on the wall, like everything that I do, I'm doing
to create value in the house. You know, to have
Steve come to this house and we take a picture
by the pool and it goes to the wall of fame.
You know, so tell me when you know, like create
this value out of it. You know, any kind of

(59:38):
friends that are you know, like are known in the
world that come to visit. We create all the memorabilia,
even the suit I WoT the Grammys, you know, frame
it and you know, so I've kept it and the shoes,
and you know, like that's the whole idea to kind
of like build like a legacy project for my kids

(59:59):
who are living next or you know, in a normal
setting where they're not exposed to or they are lives
are normal, you know, you know, like having a day
with the kids in the pool and then Drake's Drake
is walking in, you know, like you know what I mean.

(01:00:21):
So that's the difference between the between the Black Cough
and ninety. I'm just like taking his ad fart we
I'm understanding the different dynamics.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
When you told me the story of going from a
divorce in a house to an apartment penthouse to a
house with your mother, to then everything next door back
on your own, it sounded to me like someone that
was struggling to try and have the best of both
worlds continually because in your own words, you were told
that the best life was to be married. Yeah, tried

(01:00:51):
that discovered that for you it wasn't. So he went
back to the penthouse, which is where I was like, bachelor, single,
we're about to yeah, and you're in the penthouse. You go,
I need to be back in that environment. Yeah, And
then you get the mother back in, and the mom
comes in you can find actually, no, the day might

(01:01:13):
divorces signed. How do I celebrate?

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
You know? It can't be in front of my mother,
you know. So you're right, but you remember, it's all
the search, That's what it is, searching for happiness. And
in the end, I don't think we're gonna be able

(01:01:37):
to find and define it. What is your happiness? It's
going to be. It's not a destination, you know, it's
going to be like a series of different things. You know,
where boxes are ticked. You know, if all those boxes
are ticked, though, are you then happy? You can't tick

(01:01:59):
the more? Because because life is so long, and we
keep discovering things to tick, you know, and they all
have different meanings. You know, which is where's there's small
boys journey? And you know, because if it was a
small boys boxes to tick by now it will be done,

(01:02:24):
you understand. So there's boxes often adults like you're saying,
you live here and then you extend, and then you
know upstairs you keep and then you're going to be like,
actually I need to buy another building. That's how it is.
But all these things, they we're never going to stop.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
I often think that I was thinking there about advice,
and you know, because a lot of that advice tends
to come from our parents. But I often think that
when we've come from a place of hardship, and I
just think generally, I think there's a lot in my
own life. There's words that I wish I said or
could say now to my.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Parents.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
There's words that I wish I could say to my
my mother, my father. You spoke so lovingly at the
beginning of this conversation about the role that your mother
played in your life. Is your mother still with us? Yes,
she's ye. I spoke to it on my way here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
She is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Are there any words that you found difficult to say
to her?

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Not anymore? You know, I love you as one of
them because she it was never part of our family
as like an African family to have that kind of form.
Then these kind of conversations. You know, even our hugs

(01:03:56):
are still a little bit awkward, but they still hugs
because it's never been their generation didn't do that. You know,
they would show you and you would know your parents
love you the best way they will do it, you know,
And being a parent, I am so much aware of

(01:04:21):
how I want to teach my kids to be able
to say it and like randomly hug them because I
never you know, I had that growing up. And then
in the end, we are the ones who come back
and teach our parents, you know, no matter how awkward

(01:04:41):
it gets, you know, teach them to say and then
they learn, even though it's like it's not something they know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
We have a closing tradition this podcast where the last
guest asks a question for the next guest. They write
it in the book. They don't know who they're writing
it for, the question that was written for you, and
it's funny. Oh, they've written a question for you, but
they didn't know who they're writing it, which is the
most amazing thing ever. When you hear this question, what
is your favorite sound?

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Laughter? Why? Because people laugh when they're happy. And going
back to what I said in the beginning, I think personally,
that's what we're searching for as a human race. We're

(01:05:42):
just looking for happiness. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Thank you for being so generous with your time. Thank
you for giving me some of the best nights of
my life. Thank you for coming here inspiring me. Thank
you for your vulnerability, which I know will help so
many people. And thank you just for being a creative
inspiration for me. As I said, I'm trying to deje
at the moment my decks upstairs. So I've read that
you're looking for, you know, young South African talent, So.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Come at me South African from South of Africa. No, no,
but yeah, thank you so much. It's thank you. It's
been a pleasure. Thank you. Appreciate appreciate. Yea, the invitation
was really I was nervous for a coming here. Well,
I like you no opening up and it worked out well.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Thanks quick one. We have a brand new sponsor on
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(01:06:48):
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