Ed Wood (1994) [Jeff Pic]

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh What Have You Done?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Sex? Visionary or Misguided Dreamer? Edward, directed by Tim Burton,
is a quirky and heartfelt biographical dramedy that chronicles the
life and career of Edward D. Wood Junior, a filmmaker
notorious for creating some of the most infamously bad movies
in Hollywood history, say the nineteen fifties Hollywood. The film

(00:25):
follows Wood, played by Johnny Depp, as he relentlessly pursues
his passion for filmmaking despite limited talent, mini school budgets,
and a revolving door of eccentric collaborators. Fueled by optimism
and an unshakable belief in his art, he directs cult
classics like Glenn or Glinda Planned nine from Outer Space,
even earning the title of the worst director of all Time.

(00:49):
Along the way, Wood befriends and champions and aging morphine
addicted Bella Lagosi played by Martin Landau in an Academy
Award winning performance, casting him in bizarre oh budget horror
films and a desperate attempt to revive his career. As
Wood struggles to balance his artistic dreams, relationships, financial hardships,
he remains steadfast in his unique, if highly unconventional vision,

(01:13):
blending comedy, tragedy, an old school Hollywood charm. Ed Wood
is a love letter to outcast dreamers and the undying
spirit of independent filmmaking.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
This is Edwood, Tim Burton, director of Batman, Beetling, Juice
and Edward scissor Hands. Now takes you to a completely
different world, the true story of a Hollywood legend, ed

(01:45):
Wood action.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
He made movies like no one else.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I want to keep moving. He's got to get through
that door.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
That was perfect. Do you know anything about film production? Well,
i'd like to think so. He had an eye for talent.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I met Bella Legosi. I thought he was dead. This
is the most uncomfortable coffin I've ever read it. No,
it's very much alive. Sauthor.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
He had a passion for storytelling.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
You get me transvestites. I need transvestites.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
You're flashy.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
They want that, okay, but they want professionalisms. Nixon, the
Nelly without losing Navete. The count of a movie is
It's science fiction, heartbreaking romance, brave robbers from outer space,
Rave robbers.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
From what And he had a secret he couldn't hide.
I like to dress in women's clothing, panties, sweaters, pumps.
It's just something I do. You don't like sex with girls, No,
I love sex with girls.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wearing their clothes makes me feel closer to them.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
How can you liked so casual when you're dressed like that?

Speaker 1 (02:43):
All right, everybody, let's finish this picture.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Touchstone Pictures presents Johnny Depp, Martin Landau, Sarah Jessica partner
Patricia Arquette, and Bill Murray in the true story Relic
of an.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Unfretting We get a both filmmaker.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
We're making another movie that got the Church of Beverly
Hills to put up the gage.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
How do you get all your friends to get baptized
just so you can make a monster the movie.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
And his legacy that will live forever.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Shake it, hugs around. It looks like he's killing.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
This is the.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
One I come d you.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
This is the one I'll be remember for Edwood, a
Tim Burton film.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Really worst film you ever saw? Well, my next one
will be better. Now pack sex.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, here we are the Beau Brad Gilmour joined by
the General Jeff Smith and Jeff we have another movie
to break down and pick six This time, though it
is not my selection. This time it is your selection,
and you selected nineteen ninety four's ed Wood. And my
question is what.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I did. My first pick is nineteen ninety four is
ed Wood. And so we're still.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
In the nineties.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
We're stick of the nineties movies after The Phantom. This
one is my favorite Tim Burton movie WHOA which I
know is a big claim, but for me, this movie
came at a very important time for me in life,
much like I think The Panom did for you. This
was ninety four, so I was a year out of

(04:30):
high school. I was just starting film school, and I
was a very rare nineteen year old in the world
that knew who Edward was. Before the movie Edwood came out,
I had seen the book the now I forget what

(04:52):
it's called, like Golden Turkey or something like that. Basically,
there's a book that was released that name the worst
movie of all time. This is pre Internet, of course,
in a book and Plan nine from Outer Space was
listed as the worst movie of all time. And then
this is also periodhre. I used to vacation with my
family in Walt Disney World and we went to at
the Hollywood Studios. There still is to this day a

(05:14):
restaurant called the Sci Fi Dine in Theater and it
looks like an old drive in and you sit in
cars that are tables and you watch trailers from bad
fifty sci fi movies, and one of them is Plan
nine from Outer Space. And I remember watching these and
writing down on the napkin in the Sci Fi Dining

(05:35):
in all the titles of the movies because I wanted
to go and try to find them. There's Robot Monster
and Catwomen from the Moon and the Terrible, Terrible movies
and Plan n I was one of them. So I
watched Plan nine. And then when Tim Burton announced he
was going to make a biopic of the director of it,
it felt very punk rock in a weird way for

(05:57):
film nerds of the nineties because it was very small
group that knew who it was. Tim Burton was coming
off of Batman Returns, so this is big Tim burn time,
and it's going to be in black and white, and
it's gonna be weird. And Johnny Depp was an even
huge Johnny Depp at the time, so it was just
a weird idea to have a whole movie based on

(06:18):
and to do it in kind of a Oscar bait
kind of way and have it be released by Disney,
And I thought, this movie's gonna bomb. Who's gonna care
about this? And I it was right because it did,
because nobody did. Because it's a weird thing to get
Disney to release a movie based on not only a

(06:40):
director most people I'd never heard of, but arguably a
bad director that no one had heard of, who died
in obscurity and not under the best circumstances. So I
love Edward and I watched I thought it was really cool,
and I thought I appreciated the recreations that they in
a lot of these kind of movies, like When the

(07:03):
Disaster Artist, I thought was very similar to this, and
that way about the room where they do the recreations,
and part of the joy is watching them recreate it
and kind of get a kick out of that and
just watching a story about someone who the world thinks
is terrible done with fairy rose colored glasses.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, you know, I'll be honest with you. So when
you selected ed Wood, I had not seen it. I've
never seen it, obviously, that's part of the podcast the show. Yes,
i'd never seen it. I maybe had heard of it, maybe,
but I had never seen a trailer. I never I
didn't know who directed it, I didn't know who stored
in it. Nothing right. And so when I this was

(07:48):
I watched the movie at the time we're doing this
two nights ago, two nights ago, and I was really
pleasantly surprised by the cast of who was in this movie.
We'll talk about the cast here in a little bit
more depth, but these are my initial thoughts, my initial thoughts.
So I did not like this movie. I really really

(08:12):
loved this movie. I really wasn't. Really I was not
expecting to enjoy it it honestly, had it had it
been a movie that I just was, you know, going
through Netflix or Prime on and saw, I would never
stop to watch it. But because of this podcast, I
was like, Okay, I gotta watch this movie. And this

(08:34):
is one of those rare gems of like, Wow, how
did I never see this? How was this never on
my radar? Because there's so many things about this movie
that one I completely loved, two understood at a deep level,
three resonated with, and then four it finally helped me
realize a line from our favorite sitcom of all time

(08:58):
that I never knew what they were talking about, which
is from Seinfeld, which the Chinese restaurant episode. They're going
to go see Plan nine from out of Space, the
worst movie ever made.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's the worst movie ever made. I can't go make
fun of a bad movie by myself. It's I want
to go that's true. I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
And so I had always heard Plan nine from out
of Space, and I assumed this is real. I just
assumed that it was a made up title like they
did for Rachelle Rochelle A possibly on or whatever they are,
you know, like like like a flaming globes prognosis negative,
like these kind of movies. And so I did not

(09:40):
I did not think that it was a real movie.
And so I will say, yes, there's a lot of
DNA in this film that I resonate with, especially coming
from I hate to even use the term creative, but
as somebody who would consider himself a creative or creative
you really find yourself understanding it would at a deeper level. Now,

(10:02):
I won't say I fully understand the cross dressing nature
of the character. It's not something that I resonated with,
and perhaps it wasn't fully explained why. I think there's
something with his mom or something when he was younger
or whatever, and it wasn't sexual at all. It was
more of a of a comfort thing for him to
dress in the Angora sweaters and stuff. But other than that, Yeah,

(10:26):
loved this movie, man, just really.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Like, Okay, you gave me no indication. I got a
text from Brad after he watched it and he said,
watched it, this is going to be interesting, like you creep.
That gives me nothing. Okay, good, Well it's I'll talk
a little bit about the movie because the the ideas
started with the writers. It was not originally Tim Burton

(10:50):
that was going to do it, and the writers are
Scott Alexander and Larry Karazuski that is how you pronounced
his last name, and they have since done quite a
few movies like this about real life people. I think
the movie, I'm pretty sure I think you've talked about
before as the dolomite.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Dolomite is my name.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
They wrote that, and you can definitely now see very
similar kind of DNA with ed wood and dolomite. And
it makes sense when you know, oh, the same writers.
Oh yeah, okay, I could see that, but they also
did A Man on the Moon about Andy Kaufman. They
wrote that, and they wrote The People Versus Larry Flint
about Larry Flint.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Okay, so they got they.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
They this is what when you need a biopic about
someone you might not necessarily write a biopic about, you
go to Scott Alexander and Larry Karatzuski. And before this
they had written Problem Child and Gilbert Godfrey Prome Child
from the nineties, Sorry Gilbert Godfrey, John Ritter, John Ridder
and his real life wife Amy yas Bik. I haven't

(11:58):
seen it in a what Michael richards Is believe in it.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
That's not Riai Godfreed, Gilvert Godfrey, and so that from
what I've read before, the movie was originally much darker,
and it kind of came like a family movie.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
And and they did not have a great experience as
the writers of that, And they had been fans of
Edwood and actually wanted Scott Alexander wanted to make a
documentary about it, and then they decided instead they're going
to write the script. And when they knew potentially the
original director was gonna be Michael Lehman, who did Heathers

(12:34):
and when Tim Burton came on, he was just going
to be a producer, but then the writers wisely decided
to when they wrote the script, and they wrote it
in something like six weeks or something super fast. But
they wrote it knowing to Tim Burton's sensibilities, and they
knew from Tim Burton's backstory that he was a big

(12:55):
fan of Vincent Price, held Vincent Price to a very
high regard. One of his for short movie is called Vincent,
about a little boy that lives Vincent. And then Vincent
Price had a small role in Edward Scissorhands, and they
kind of had a very similar relationship to what eventually
became the ed Wood and Bella Lagosi relationship and ed Wood,
so they leaned on that a lot for ed Wood,

(13:17):
and the draft that they wrote is the draft that
they filmed. Tim Burton read it and said, this is fine,
We're making this. I want to direct it. Michael Lehman
went and directed Airheads instead, Brandon Frazier, Steve per simmydam Sailor,
Chris Farley.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Fun movie, actually, fun movie, your buddy, my buddy already. Yeah,
it was in Airhead and everything, big.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Ern, big ernuh. And so then he did it and
originally was going to be made by Columbia, but Tim
Burton wanted to not only make this movie about somebody
you'd never heard of, and make a movie about someone
who wore women's clothing at a time where that was shocking,
and also wanted to film in a black and white,
so it kind of had the same aesthetic as ed

(14:00):
What's movies, and I think it was the actually of
all things, it was the black and white that Columbia went, well,
we're not doing that. So Tim Burton took Edwood to Disney,
who had just done Nightmare before Christmas, and they wanted
to get in the Tim Burton business. They knew this
was not going to be a hit, so the budget
was small, the advertising was small. They released it in

(14:22):
October of ninety four, and I think they pushed more
for this is going to be an Oscar kind of movie,
and it's not gonna be a hit. The promotion is
kind of weird. The trailer does mention that he likes
to wear women's clothes, but they definitely include a line
that Patricia ar Katt says where she says, don't you
like sex with girls?

Speaker 7 (14:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I love sex with girls wearing their clothes makes me
feel closer to them, like don't worry nineteen ninety four.
He's not gay, he just likes to wear sweaters, and
they'd lean on that a lot. It's reiterated a few
times in the movie that he's straight but likes to
wear bras and panties.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, you know. Okay, So I love hearing the background
of it, and now knowing who the writers are, it
makes a lot of sense. And what'd you say? His
name was Michael Layman? Who did Problem Chong?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Michael Layman? No, Michael did Heathers?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Okay? Who did? These guys wrote Problem.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
The writers are No, Yeah, they wrote Problem.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
They wrote Problem Chong, which, by the way, Yeah, if
you've never seen Problem Child, it's kind of a cultish
movie on its own. And I think they made a
few of them. Yeah, right, they made a few of them.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
The two was theatrical, and I think they made a
three kind of like Home Alone three. Yeah, where and
now Here's the Problem Child?

Speaker 2 (15:34):
But Gilbert Godfred's in that movie, and it's funny. This
is the only time I can probably ever share this story.
But I interviewed Gilbert Godfred several years ago before he
passed away, and obviously but recipes Gilbert Godfrey, I remember
talking to him about the scene with him and Eddie
Murphy and Beverly Hills Cop two. That was like the
main thing I wanted to ask him about, Like, hey,

(15:55):
tell me about this scene, and like how he and
Eddie Juck improv the whole thing. Thing was an imprompt
which sounds right, and Gilbert was so funny. But to
this day, I have an alarm that was set to
remind me, you have this Gilbert Godfried interview at nine
point fifteen, and so I'm gonna show you. You see
that it's stabled nine to twelve twelve Gilbert Gilbert interview,

(16:19):
and I still have that. I just can't delete it.
I can't delete that reminder.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
It's like, well, now you definitely can't. That's amazing, but
it's fun.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So back to this movie though, Okay, it makes sense
because Dolomite Again is also kind of a cultish movie.
You know, black spilitation movie, Rudy ray Moore who he
was and what he represented at the time, but this
is even from the couple of generations before that, or
a generation and a half before that with Edwood, the
Plan nine from Out of Space Bela Lagosi, his relationship

(16:49):
to that character. I see why Tim Burton wanted to
do this movie. But is this not the craziest zag
for a director for like I'm saying Tim Burton when
you look at his run, because you know, we like
to do this. Eighty five is Pee Wee's big adventure.
Then he does Beetlejuice, then he does Batman, then he

(17:09):
does Edward Scissorhands, then Batman returns. Okay, that's all in
a seventy year stretch. He's throwing ninety nine every time.
Oh yeah, every time. There's no miss there's no box
office bomb, there's no I don't know about that one.
And then you also mentioned Nightmare before Christmas, The.

Speaker 6 (17:30):
Night Before Christmas, Yeah, which is.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
A which he did not direct, but it's his, but
it's his creation creation.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
So he's throwing ninety nine like every single time, and
there's no signs of needing to take him out. He's
going to pitch the full nine innings. This guy's got it.
So ed Wood is an interesting what I feel is
a zag because it's like you have these huge, commercially
successful but also dark movies. They're all dark, they're Tim
Burton esque. He's gotten aesthetic, but they still have this

(17:59):
great comer appeal. And then you go with ed Wood,
which is has to be a passion project, I guess
would be the way to describe it. And I can
understand why someone like Tim Burton would be like, oh,
let's make a movie about the worst director of all time,
who made the worst movie of all time. It's such
a hymn thing to do. And then to cast Johnny

(18:20):
Depp in this role. Yeah, where Johnny, I think, is
just now starting to be this is the future guy guy, right,
because he's done at this point what he's done platoon
Edward scissorhands, right, he did there was another reason and

(18:42):
Benny and June, what's eaton Gilbert Grape? He did? So
he's getting ready to make the big run.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
He's not twenty one Jump Street.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
He's not twenty one Jump Street. He's kind of shed
that image. This is like heart throb image to like,
very popular with the ladies. Women are loving Johnny Dedapp
and he's you could tell you can always earmark the
guys who are about to be the guy. Do you
know what I mean? In wrestling terms? Whoever has the
Intercontinental Championship, is gonna be the world champion next, We've

(19:12):
got to let him find it. So this is Johnny
about to be the guy because after this movie he
goes on don Juan DeMarco, he does Donnie Brasco Fear
and Loathing in Las Vegas, which is also kind of
a strange movie, but then again Sleepy Hollow, and then
he's starting to really go with Blow from Hell and

(19:33):
then Bam, Power to the Caribbean. Right, so he's about
to go on this huge run ahead of him. This
movie could have killed that for him.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, this is definitely one of those movies where he
this Edward is not a heart throb character at all.
There's nothing well maybe for some, but there's nothing like
you can't help it's Johnny Depp everybody, you know. It's
kind of Brad Pitt plays a nerd, like, okay, you're.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Still sure you're stealing, but this is like, this is.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Kind of when Charlie's Theron puts a fake nose on
or tries to look ugly. This is their thing, like Okay,
I don't want to be the Upstreet anymore. So it's
continuing that kind of which is her hands playing a weirdo.
And then this is just that typical Tim Burton. This
is only the second movie did with Tim Burton. Then
you know they became.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Synonymous with each other in some ways.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Uh yeah, then the Way we Go. But this is
you know, it's one of those outsider stories that Tim
Burton likes, where it's somebody that society doesn't necessarily see
the value in, so they have like their own little group.
I mean, you could say Batman is the outsider, and
which is her hand is definitely the outsider. Pee Wee

(20:49):
is the outsider, and then you know he would continue
to do that for sure when back when Tim Burton
was was good and Pee.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Wee was an outsider. But one thing before I forget this,
because yes, those are all outsiders in their own movies
and realms. Ed Wood, he is an outsider, but kinda
not really right because everyone's going along with the craziness.
Everyone's like it's a Hollywood movie. These This is not
a movie about a singular outsider, but a group of

(21:18):
outsiders who find themselves like they see themselves in each
other in some weird way. Even from Bill Murray's character,
who's Bunny, Who's kind of a confidant. Also of Edward
a lot money. I've got the next one, you know,
and he's he's always kind of talking to him to
even Sarah Jessica Parker's character who just she wants to
be involved in it until she can't take anymore. Patricia

(21:40):
Arquette's character is an outsider. Bella is an outsider. The
guy who plays what's the mystic's name, oh, Chriswell. Chriswell
is an outsider. Like these are all outsiders who find
themselves kind of all wanting to be the same thing,
which is to be remembered and to do so through

(22:00):
movie and to impact people through film and and be
something bigger than themselves. That's different, I think than the
individual outsiders that we saw before this.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's true. He is definitely kind of a collector of
them in this And I wish I had written it
down because it's a good line that Sarah Jessica Parker
has when she gets to the set of Bride of
the Atom, which becomes part of the monster, says something like, oh,
I see the group of this is not accurate, but
I see the group of misfits and dope fiends have
made it because it's the gang, it's the you know

(22:36):
which one of them gave you money for the movie?
It's just that's. Yeah, it's this collection of outsiders, and
Edward is the glue, and he's the one that I
guess could talk his way into convincing them all that.
At the very beginning of the movie, after they've done
a play about World War Two, they get a terrible

(22:57):
review in the paper, and he dismisses it and tells
them all, we're all doing great work, and they buy it.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
He's definitely a glass half full guy, and I appreciate
that about him phenomenally. And again I think that with
any great or for any famous or infamous right, they
have the thought in their mind that what they were
doing was you know, great, they had they you know,

(23:28):
like I just I be strong belief in themself, in
themselves is what I was looking for. Just a strong
belief that, hey, no, I'm just going to keep going
and I'm going to keep making It's like the scene
where they show the executive I think at Warner Brothers
Glenn or Glinda, and he thinks it's a practical joke,
and then he calls or Edward calls him and He's like,

(23:49):
this is the worst movie I've ever seen, And Edward's
reaction is I'll just do better next time. You know,
my next one will be better. And there's just a
never say die attitude in this guy, which is great.
Now we are twenty minutes in. We haven't talked about
Martin Landau, and we're going to get there in just
oh my gosh. Yeah, But I want to say this
about Johnny Depp where I did like the movie. I

(24:11):
really really loved this movie. I was already recommending it
to people, like texting people, Hey, have you ever seen
ed Wood? If you haven't, like, go check this out.
Here's the trailer, here's a link. I don't know if
I love Johnny Depp's performance. I don't know now, And
I want to walk this through with you because I'm
a tale of two minds on it. If I have

(24:32):
an idea of what he might have been doing, and
if so, I actually loved the performance. But if it's
not what he was doing, then I just think it's okay.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
So what do you think he was doing?

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Okay? I think that maybe he was playing ed Wood
in the way that a character in an ed Wood
movie would play ed Wood.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, you could say that for a couple of the people,
because some of them in their delivery. I Patricia ar
Kent has moments like this. I think Sir Jessica Parkerker
has moments like this where they are a little clunky
with some of the dialogues. So I think that can
be dismissed because of that very thing. Johnny Depp has
said that his portrayal of Edward is a mix of

(25:16):
the optimism of Ronald Reagan, the speaking voice of Casey
casem and kind of the just again more of the
optimism and mannerisms of the tin Man from Wizard of Oz.
Those are the three things he combined to do Edwood.
I also think, yeah, that's all good, and I don't

(25:37):
know what genius decides, okay, those three, But I also
think I wonder if he's playing Edward how he as
a character thinks he is because he doesn't let anything
bother him. And we know, if you do a deep dive,
I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point. The

(25:58):
real Edward was not as go lucky as appeared in
the movie, but had definitely had that optimism, and I
can see how it if you don't like the performance,
it's because it's just so cheese.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Well to me, it's not so much the cheese, it
just it. It has some connective tissue in DNA to
Johnny Depp's performance in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I see,
like I'm like, oh, is this just how Johnny Depp
plays weird eccentric, like you know, who's not a pirate?

(26:36):
Like yeah, you know, and because it's different than Edward Scissorhands,
is different than Jack Sparrow. But if you have you
seen Charlie in the Chocolate Factory, Yeah, okay, I can
see that, and you know, there's like a weird kind
of you know, talking through the bottom of my teeth
and yeah, like kind of like this you know that
I don't know if I fully loved, but once I
kind of just got past it. In the early going,

(26:58):
I was like, okay, like I'm I just thought that
maybe he was doing maybe he was acting poorly on purpose.
I don't know, like was that a choice, Like I
don't want to I don't want to be this phenomenal
actor in a movie about the worst director movie. It

(27:19):
was like I was like, is he going for a
meta thing that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
And I will say this having seen Edwood before Charlie
the Choco Factory. Now that you mentioned that, I forgot
about it because I saw Charlie and the Choco Factory
once and that's a good call, but not for me.
But it felt like his performance. And I remember reading
at the time that he kind of did the same
approach to his Willy Wonka where it's a mix of

(27:44):
some other real life people and Michael Jackson, a lot
of Michael Jackson and Willy Wonka. And I remember when
I heard him do the voice as a fan of
ed Wood, I thought, oh, it's kind of a poor
man's version of Edwood. Interesting, we've seen the other way
around that. He go, oh, it's kind of likes Willy Wonka.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean that's what that That was what I
was thinking the whole time, because even like the facial
the facials that he would make in the little head
movements and the talking to the bottom of the teeth,
you know, and the weird kind of way of his dialogue.
I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that it wasn't good,
But when you have Martin Landau, yeah, let's go I mean,
just crush.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Out of the award winning for this performance.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So what's interesting is I'm watching the movie again. I
did no research before. I didn't want to read about it.
I didn't want to know who was in the cast.
I didn't want to know anything. I just want to
go and blind. I'm watching Martin Landau, and as a
fan of film, I'm of course I'll wear Bella Lagosi.
Even if you don't know him by name, you know
him by voice and action, and you go, I want
those up your la like everybody.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Knows I never drink wine.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right right right, you know this guy. And so I'm
watching it and I didn't know as Martin Landau at first,
and then I got about I don't know, maybe it
was after they first meet and I think they go
to Bella's house and I'm like, oh, that's Martin Landau,
you know. And and for me, the pro wrestling fan
of me, I know him from Ready to Rumble is

(29:10):
my first time I saw Have you seen Ready to Rumble?
Long long time ago? David Arquette vehicle Scott con Martin
Landau plays a guy Salmandini want to russell. But just
you know, if you're a wrestling fan, Booker's in the
movie too. Booker T, Booker T and Martin Landau are
in the same movie. Okay, so I just want to

(29:32):
throw I'm three degrees away from Martin Landau, who passed
away few years ago, unfortunately, but I'm watching him play
Bello Lagosi, and as the movie plays out, I go,
if this guy wasn't nominated, this is crazy, you know.
I was like, he had to have been nominated because
he's doing such a great job. And I honestly thought

(29:53):
maybe the fact that it's a weird, obscure movie, like,
you know, because even in the early nineties there were
still like big movies getting nominated for Academy Awards. It
wasn't like Best Picture was ten movies you'd never heard
of before.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
It was like, oh, well, this is ninety four, this
is the year Forrest Gump. The biggest movie of the
year was Best Picture.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
It was Best Picture. And this is you know, when
pulp fiction and all that was also nominated and things
of that nature. So big stars, big movies were still
getting the big nomination. So I thought, Okay, hopefully he
at least got a nom or a nod for this one.
And then I didn't I was pleasantly surprised to found
out that he won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor,

(30:36):
one of two oscars I think the movie was nominated
for or one. I think I know it won two.
I don't know if it was nominated for any more
than that, but he won two, and it makes sense
that he won for Bello Legosi. And this is where
the part of the movie that I really connected, probably
more with ed Wood than any other point, because I

(30:56):
am somebody I have a Johnny Carson picture behind me.
I'm a fan of the of the generation that preceded
me to an unusual degree for someone of my age,
you know, for someone of my age. You know, who
George Goebel is is a weird thing, right, And so
they said, you're even going like, who the hell is that?
I have an affinity and a love for those people

(31:19):
of that generation that ilk like when Ed McMahon's estate
went for sale, like I'm bidding on stuff from Ed
McMahon's house, you know, and I have here somewhere in
my office. And to see the love that he has
for Bela Lagosi when everybody's like, oh, didn't he die?
You know, it's and he like, gone, what are you

(31:39):
talking about?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Now?

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I met bell Lagosi. This is the greatest day ever.
And I felt him on that because when I meet
these stars that my friends maybe have never heard of,
or I interview them, or I get an email from someone,
I'm like, wow.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
I got it.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I just talked to such and such on the phone.
It's crazy and they're like, who is that?

Speaker 4 (31:58):
You know?

Speaker 2 (31:58):
I don't know who that is. But I have such
a love for the legend that was that it's still
in me. And that's what Edwood had for Bella Lagosi,
and he both was infatuated with him from what he
represented for early Hollywood and being a star, also probably
being blinded by the fact of Wow, I met this
great star of Yesteryear, and maybe I can convince him

(32:20):
to be in one of my movies, which was a
selfish thing, but also it turns out that it was
selfless the entire time in a lot of ways, because
he just loved this man so much, had such a
reverence for what he meant to film history. He wanted
to be the guy almost the Tarantino to the John
Travolta before that was even a thing, Like I want

(32:42):
to be the guy who brings Bella Lagosi back to
the big time, and he had an unwavering, unwavering relationship
with this guy who was like to the death, I
am going to make sure that I put Bella Lugosi
back in the spotlight, even to the fact of I'm
still scenes for a movie that I don't even have yet.

(33:02):
I don't know what it's gonna be, but I'm going
to film this and to me that aspect of it
where he films the of Bella just being in front
of the house and grabbing the flower and being at
a funeral or whatever. I don't know what this is
gonna be. But when he gets the idea or he
gets the financing for the next movie, I'm going to

(33:23):
figure out how to put Bella in this movie. God,
I love that. I love Martin Landero in it.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Well, it became his stock footage, which he already was
good at using. You know, there's a scene early in
Edwood where he sees a bunch of stock footage that
has been collected at the studios working out, and it's
shots of missiles being fired and buffalo running on a
plane and an octopus underwater. And he makes a movie
out of that, and then the Bella Lugosie footage that
he shot, which was just in the movie at least

(33:53):
is done to make Bella Lagosi feel better after getting
out of rehab that they're working on a movie together.
And then you can decide later putting putting all that
into planting from out of space is exploitive, but you know,
then deciding, Okay, I'm gonna make a movie out of this,
and all I need is a guy that kind of
resembles him to cover his space for the entire movie

(34:13):
and no one will notice, and I'll keep reusing the
same three shots. You need to see now you need
to see plant night.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh I started watching it last night. I fell asleep. Okay,
I started watching it late, but I started watching that.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's not It's more interesting now to watch it and go,
oh wow, they weren't exaggerating this part at all.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Well, I almost find it to be completely nonsensical when
I'm watching it, like I'm trying to follow the plot
and I'm having trouble.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Don't do that. Yeah, well, it's they mentioned it when
they're making of like how can the police drive up
during the day, and now they're the cemetery and it's
night that happens a lot in Planet from out of Space,
where it's just day for night. But movies are not
about the big picture or not. They're about the big
picture that about.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
The long details or whatever on which I love that lot. Now,
going back to the stock footage part, they show him
and it's I don't know the actor's name, but he's
always You're my boy Blue.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Then yeah, yeah, you're.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
My boy Blue.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know, he's always the old He's.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
In the wedding singer. I think where he says, I'm sorry,
I used to be much stronger.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Oh yeah, he's He's just that. He was that guy
in the nineties and I was referencing old school.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
I think venture.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I think he is in Pee Wee's Big he is
he is, Yeah, Tim Burton like this guy. But when
he when he's the one showing him the stock footage, right,
and I guess Edward at the time, is he just
working on the lot, like as a a stage hand
or a gardener delivery plant plant? Yeah, okay something. But
when he shows them the the the underwater footage of

(35:44):
the octopus, and and ed Woods starts going, oh, this
is how this is what I would do with the movie.
He lays it out, and then the guy's like, you
didn't even use the octopus. He goes, uh no, I'm
saving that for my big underwater climax.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I was like, this guy, this is my I understood,
I understood him. I don't, like I said earlier, And
it's not any kind of lack of trying to understand
the cross dressing. I still am like, I don't really
get it as far as like the point of I
guess it's as a part of his story, but I
don't Maybe Glennard Glinda, I just don't know why you

(36:19):
put that in the movie so much, or why so
much attentions paid to it. I guess to show that
he's some kind of strange guy in the same sense
of like in j Edgar when they played to the
cross dressing. Like, I do understand that it's an odd
fact about this well known person. I just don't understand
how it weaves into the story.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
I think if it was not about a real life person,
it probably wouldn't be a thing.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
You'd be like, why would you put this in there?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah? Right, and it'd have to be explained a great detail.
And I have watched this movie with people that have
not don't know anything about and they go, why is that?
And I go, because he did, I don't know, that's
just he did. Yeah it made him feel comfortable.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah. But but going to the Love of Bella, you
understood Edward's love for him, right, you resonate with that? Yeah,
being that like even who done it? The Clue documentary
in some ways is a similar love affair.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Well, I was thinking about what you were saying, how
you to even greater extent. But we have had the
we both have had the opportunity to sit down with
people that maybe in the normal quote unquote normal world
are people that you just walk by every day, but
we appreciate their accomplishments or appreciate what they their creativity

(37:37):
has meant to us growing up. And it's why, you know,
people get starstruck, or why people go to conventions and
will wait in line to meet one of the guys
that played Michael Myers that nobody would know and it's
a guy that wore a mask and it might be him.
Sure we never see his face in the actual movie,
but we know it's him, So we have that appreciation.
So yes, I totally get being more starstruck meeting somebody

(38:02):
like Jeffrey Kramer who was in Jaws and played the
motorist and clue. That no offense to jeff Kramer, but
probably can go most day to day without somebody going,
you know, I love you in a way that if
it were Johnny Depp walking around, maybe more people would
be super excited. Or however people are reacting to Johnny

(38:25):
Depp these things.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
No, totally totally, and I just think that it's a
I'm trying to think of like a good example of
like today, of like who that would be for you know,
the year prior. I don't know who that would be
maybe like a uh, I don't know. I want to say,
like a Henry Winkler, but even Henry Winklers like you know,

(38:48):
well no, I mean Belle the Ghost here's a huge star.
But I'm trying to think Henry Winkler still still doing
it though, like he's still he's still out there and
doing it at a high.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I'm just trying to think of that person who that
would be.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
I think anybody that just their time has faded a
little bit. I think your example of Quentin Tarantino wanting
John Travolta in Pull Fiction is a perfect It's not
that modern of an example, but it's a very similar
one where he definitely wanted him to play the lead
in this movie and the studio is like, no, John
Travolta's washed up. He does talking baby movies now, and

(39:25):
he said, no, I have. It's definitely an equivalent. I
don't know if anybody does that now. I think you
would do that. I would be cast you would throw
like a pro wrestler that maybe from the eighties. Like
I remember, I was writing a script years and years
ago and I was writing a part for a security

(39:46):
guard and I wrote it purposefully that it was a
former wrestler that now is a security guard, and I
wanted it to be Roddy Piper. So I thought, how
cool would that be? And maybe some people would get it.
Piper's pretty big. He also did they live? But you
know what I mean, Like, I would have also been
happy if it had been to coocoob Beware or if
you know somebody from that Arab Bruce Beefcake and so yeah,

(40:11):
I think I think everybody has that. And it's a
it's a fandom that either is not huge or it's
something that is from growing up. And to that point,
it would says the movie that Dracula is the first
movie he ever saw, right, so he has that childhood
attachment to to Bella Lagosi and and you.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Know what, and and this probably isn't you know, fair
to Bella Lagosi because of his store park, because Bella
Legosi was a household name. Like, after I watched this movie,
I was talking to my dad, who you know, was
born in the forties, and so I go, hey, you know, uh,
Bela Lagosi. He's like, I love Bella Lagosi. He's one

(40:50):
of my favorites of all time. I'm like, what about
Boris Karlov. He's like, oh, I love Boris more than Bella.
I'm like, that's what this movie is about. Wait wait
had But like I remember distinctly it was twenty twelve.
I just started with the Wrestling Show, and obviously meeting
Booker t was a huge deal. But I remember they

(41:12):
brought in this guy named Hardcore Holly. And this is
not a wrestler you're gonna be familiar with, but Hardcore
Holly was you know, at first he was Thurman Plug
aka Sparky in WWF Sparky Plug, who was a race
car driver and jobber. No no, no, no, no what
no no sort of.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
He started as a guy, a Brooklyn brawler kind of
a sort of.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Sort of, but then he he elevated to you know,
Bob Holly and then he became hardcore Holly in the
late nineties, and I thought Hardcore Holly was the coolest
guy from Alabama. He used the Alabama Slam or whatever,
and so we brought him in for a show. And
this is the first guy outside of Booker who was
brought in for a show, like who was a name
guy from the WWF When I watched it, and I

(41:59):
remember like sneaking a picture of that. He was sitting
talking to Booker and texting my friends, Dude, hardcore Holly
is here, and everyone was like, who's that. I'm like,
it's hardcore Holly. How do you not know hardcore Holly?
And that's kind of the same reverence in some ways
that Edward had, so but Martin Landau to capture the accent,

(42:22):
the Hungarian accent. I actually listened to a interview of
Landau talking about the performance, and the interesting thing that
he said was I wasn't trying to do a Hungarian
accent like full out, I was trying to do it
the way that Bella did, where he was almost shameful
of his Hungarian accent and thought that it hindered him

(42:44):
from getting bigger roles, so he would constantly try to disguise,
unsuccessfully his Hungarian accent. So Martin Landau's approach was, I'm
going to learn the accent and then while doing the
line delivery as Bella, try to hide the hunger Arian
acts and at the same time, in order to really
achieve what Bela Lugosi did in his performances and to

(43:08):
find to think of that, and Landau was like, I
was paying attention to where my tongue was placed in
my mouth when I would say certain words and try
to suppress it. I was like, that's why you went
an Oscar.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
I was gonna say, yeah, give that man an Oscar.
That's why you went an Oscar.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Who does that?

Speaker 4 (43:23):
You know?

Speaker 2 (43:24):
But then even Rick Baker, who we should talk about,
the monster man of all monster men, the Other Academy Award,
the Other Academy Award winner for Best Makeup, because because
Bella Lagosi and Martin Landau looked nothing alike. Like, there's
not a connective tissue in my opinion to those two
guys other than being older and white. You know, you know,

(43:47):
could have been Jeff and Rick Baker from what I
understand heard this movie was being made, and was such
a fan of Bella Legosi and Dracula. He wrote a
letter to Tim Burton saying, I will do this for free,
like I feel like I need to do this. It's
a calling for me to make sure this is done right.
And I'm sure I don't know if he did it

(44:08):
for free, but I'm sure as hell glad. I'm sure
he's glad he wrote that letter and got the Oscar
for it.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah. Well, it's very Edwood in that way that it's
a passionate reason. It's not a financial reason. It's the
passion of it.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
And yeah, and it paid off, Oh boy didn't pay off.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, And it's so good because I love it when
a movie like this and the makeup and a movie
like this is what wins because it's not showy. It's
not a monster a monster movie. How do you get
your friends to be baptized to make a monster movie.
I gotta talk about Bill Murray in a second. But yeah,
I love that. It's that's pretty much it. The makeup

(44:48):
is all Bella.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
The makeup is phenomenal. And I know we're going to
talk a little bit more about the cast, which is
like this also shows you where Tim Burton was at
this time to where it's like, I think this is
now people want to be in a Tim Burton movie. Yes, right,
I mean that's what his casts Batman Helps, having Jack

(45:12):
Kill Helps.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah. Bill Murray was not doing supporting parts yet. This
may be the first one before he started doing like
the supporting parts of Wes Anderson movies or things like that.
He was doing still Groundhog Day. He was still the
lead in comedies. So that was another cool thing I
remember seeing this movie growing up is that, Oh my gosh,

(45:36):
and Bill Murray's in it, and you could tell Bill
Murray's ad libbing and having fun and he's just playing
the small part that is hilarious and weird, and he's
in and he's out. And then as a fan of
Plan nine to see oh he's playing the guy that
actually says that that's the name of the movie, that

(45:56):
says Plan nine and Plan nine, Oh yes, Plan nine.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, I think Bill at this run, you know what
I actually like would look at like to look at
his filmography. I love looking at runs. I don't know
if you ever do that, but that's like my that
must be a wrestling thing, maybe too, because I just
by the way, We're going to talk about wrestling here
more in a second. But let's go Bill Murray. This
is Bill Murray's run up leading up to ed Wood.

(46:24):
I'm going to go ten years. We're gonna go Ghostbusters.
Nothing lasts for a break break Yeah, the Razor's Edge, Edge,
Little Shop of Horrors, all right, I like it. She's
having a baby. I don't even remember him in them.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
That's in the end credits. There's a montage at the end.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Okay, I don't remember him in that movie. Scrooged. Scrooge
is great.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
The Scrooge was the big comeback eighty.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Eight Ghostbusters too, which I like, you cannot like. This
is where I know quick Change. I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I like quick Change.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I don't remember quick Change. I don't think I've ever
seen it. What about Bob great?

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I love what about Bob?

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Then here we go groundhog Day, Big Big groundhog Day,
Mad Dog and Glory modest, modest hit. I don't know,
it's just a hit.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I remember that one was shelled for a long time.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
That was like that.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
That's now we were starting to get to my era
where I was paying attention to movies and releases and stuff.
This is still like the days of reading Premiere magazine
and stuff like that to get your information because it's
still pre internet. But mad Dog Glory was That's him
and DeNiro, right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, But I liked it,
and he kind of plays he plays the mobster Bill Murray.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
It was good.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
It just I remember it was. It was supposed to
come out and then it may have been sitting on
a shelf for a year or something like that.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Well, he goes from acting alongside Robert de Niro to
ed Wood and then we go Kingpin after that, which
is good Space Jam in ninety six, which is good
for me at least. There's some interesting choices after that.
I'm trying to think of Rushmore, which was filmed at
my high school, which is kind of cool. Nice, Charlie's Angels,

(48:15):
Osmoses Jones, Royal ten, and Bombs Lost in Translation.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
He's had a more scattered filmography than I thought.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Those are now after I guess you can count Little Shop,
of course, but that was really a small part. Now
after ed would it seems like he is doing because
even Kingpin, he's third banana, I would say two, oh,
Randy Quaid and so he's just got a really good
supporting character. He still then would throw in movies like

(48:45):
The Man Who Knew Too Little and yeah, they're fine.
Those were not hits. No.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I watched Man Who Would Do Too Little the other night.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh did you I should watch that again?

Speaker 2 (48:56):
It's fun.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Remember liking it because as a Hitchcock fan, I like
the title.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, it reminds me in some ways of although it's
very different, but it reminds me of dead Men don't
wear a plaid. I don't know why. Okay, there's a
for some reason, there's a connective tissue for in those
movies for me. But Bill Murray he's good in this movie,
Like he's really good in this movie as bunny and
again a weirdo. This bunny guy's a weirdo. I don't

(49:25):
know anything about him other than what's in this movie.
But apparently I don't either.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
He's just a talker, he's he talks about getting a
sex change and that he doesn't. Right, So he's just
he's just kind of an all talk kind of guy,
which is a nice balance to ed Wood, who could
be an all talk guy but he delivers poorly. But
he delivers. There are a lot of people I know,
even in my life that they will They'll say, Oh,

(49:49):
I'm a writer, I write scripts. Oh what have you written. Well,
I haven't written anything, but I have a lot of ideas. Okay,
well that's good. But they don't go they don't have
the sex change.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Well here's here's some interesting things on him. So yeah.
John Cabell Breckinridge, also known as Bunny Beckinridge, was an
American actor and drag queen, best known for his Rule
and the Rule as the ruler in Edward's Plan nine
from Outer Space, his only film appearance. Okay, I had
the I thought he was an actor actor. He was

(50:22):
the great great great grandchild of US Attorney General John Breckinridge,
and the great grandchild of both US Vice President and
Confederate General John C. Breckinridge and Wells Fargo Bank founder
Lloyd tefys So. The vice President John C. Breckenridge and
then Confederate leader in general. I guess Lloyd Tevis, who

(50:47):
also founded Wells Fargo. So this guy's got some background
to him. What is going on here, Breckinridge?

Speaker 1 (50:56):
What's going on Bunny?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Interesting? So he was openly gay at a time where
it was daring and even dangerous. According to Wikipedia, he
had a flamboyant lifestyle and outrageous sense of humor, and
a penchant for perfume and costume jewelry, often being in
Shakespearean plays in England and San Francisco in the nineteen twenties,
where he also frequently performed in Drag Upon, Let's See

(51:19):
hold On. Shortly after shooting Plan nine from Outer Space,
Breckinridge was convicted on ten counts of sex perversion for
taking underage boys on excursion to Las Vegas. He was
committed to the Astadero as Tescadero State Hospital for the
criminally Insane and released the following year. Upon his release,

(51:43):
he returned to his Spanish style home in San Francisco,
which was adorned with gold frames and photos of many
celebrities that he met and befriended, including Princess Margaret, Noel Coward,
Jay Edgar Hoover was Presley and Ed Sullivan interesting, what

(52:04):
an odd cat. His nickname was Bunny go figure by
here's Bunny. Okay, one more casting I want to talk about,
and then we can jump into some categories. You already
know where I'm going with it. How was there a
movie starring Johnny Dell I'm Amazed, directed by Tim Barton
with Bill Murray and they had poo wrestling in it.

(52:29):
George the Animal Steal.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
The Animal Steal one of my favorites growing up.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
So Georgia Animal Steele was so good in wrestling, just
as an over the top character figure, great lj inaction figure.
The green tongue would eat the term buckle, the hairy back.
Of course, everybody knew Georgia Animals Steal from wrestling in
the nineteen eighties. He was just kind of this iconic

(52:55):
figure in some ways. And the fact that this part
was just perfect for him. How could he be looks
like it looks identical and this guy Tour was a
real Swedish pro wrestler for the nineteen thirties and they
look identical.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Ident Had you heard of Tor Johnson as a wrestler
before this?

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Okay, no, that's probably in like pro wrestling officially started,
like the late eighteen nineties, you know, even though there
was some stuff before that with like Edge Strangler Lewis
and Frank Gotch and guys like that. They even say
Abraham Lincoln was a pro wrestler in the eighteen forties
or something like that, eighteen fifties.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
But but.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, there's a there's a whole period of wrestling that
I think it's just really lost on people before ca.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
He was Gorgeous George.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Gorgeous George is like fifties, because that's.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
When like, that's the first you most people, I think,
where they go back if they know any kind of
pro wrestling history, that's.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
The that's where it starts. Yeah, Gorgeous George in the
Gilmore Gardens which became Madison's Garden later. A little factoid
for you there, but but yeah, that's where's starting. That's
where Mhammad Ali started to get obsessed with pro wrestling,
and he you know, kind of modeled himself after Gorgeous
George and what he would say and.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
The trash talk, the trash talk and.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
And you know, the rhyming and the rhyming and also
saying like oh, these people are paying money to see
this guy get beat up, Like, yeah, I could do that,
you know, it's a part of the show. And then
I think in the last time ten or fifteen years,
every politician figured out what pro wrestling was. But anyway, anyway,

(54:39):
George the Animal Steele is so great in this movie,
Like he's so good in him.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
I didn't know he could talk.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
You never heard him talk before watching wrestling.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
He would just yell for Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
What a voice.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
He was in love with Macho Man, Brandy Savage's manager.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
As is most people.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
That was the big arc. Yeah for me and my youth,
and so hearing him talk. He doesn't say a lot,
but he's great.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
What a voice? Like, what a voice?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
He has a good scene, a good improv scene with
Bill Murray too, going back to that that was improvs
to Brookeridge, What wrong I heard ruber komen a lady. Yeah.
I think when they're in the when they're having the
scene in the meat packing yes party, right, and the
mariachi band is there playing and Bill Murray tells the

(55:32):
story of going to Mexico was a nightmare. I do
think that that was that feels very Bill Murray and
they just kind of let him do it because it
has nothing to do with the movie. It's just the
movie takes a break. And I think, even if you
go on YouTube and look for deleted scenes that goes
on longer, is it really okay? Bill Murray talking about

(55:54):
that because you get a glimpse of it when they
show in true biopic form they show the images of
people at the end before the credits and say where
are they now? He has a clip where you see
him watching the Mariachi band walk by him, and it's
from that scene.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
So this appearance from George Steele and the fact that
there's actually a pro wrestling scene in the movie, which
I'm always like a fan of, and like I'm starting
to have this encyclopedic knowledge of every time there's a
pro wrestling scene in a movie or a television show,
like more and more as the years go by. But
this one, I don't know how it was never on
my radar. And I even asked the director of Reality Wrestling,

(56:32):
have you ever heard of this movie where Georgie Animal
Steel plays a big role, and he's like, I've never
heard of this movie. So for some reason, it didn't
touch the wrestling culture I don't know why it never
crossed over and we really were aware of it.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
But you're doing good work here for pro wrestling or
bringing ed Wood well for.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
It to be an Academy Award winning film, I mean
for its makerected by Tim Burton, Tim Burton, Johnny Depp,
like I said, and we had no had not touched
the wrestling bubble was very interesting to me. Should we
get into some of our categories or do you have
anything else you want to make mention of.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I think it was wise. I will mention by not
mentioning Jeffrey Jones is in this movie.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Who you know? I mean, look, he's got he's got
some stuff, but I will say he's good in the movie.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
It's very good. And I think the the ed Wood
using the same people in his movies can be seen
in the Tim Burton style. This was the second movie
that Jeffrey Jones was in Juice, and then he was
in Sleepy Hollow he was right, and then he was

(57:38):
kind of in Beetle Juice Peel Juice sorta in clamation
form sorta. Actually he was in Beele Juice Peel Juice
a lot more than I expected.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
It to be in Yeah, and I have thoughts on
that too. I've thought so yeah, I think a lot
of people do like, huh, well, I think that was
a bit of a Tim Burton flipping the bird situation,
Like are you're saying I can't put him in this movie.
You're saying I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Guess what, He's the whole reason. It's kind of like
that's how I felt about Attack of the Clones when
jar Jar Binks was basically taken out of Phantom Menace
and George Lucas, who loved I guess Jeffrey Jones is
Tim Burton's jar Jar Binks. He said, Okay, fine, Georgia
Binks will be the movie, but his dumb little scene
where he makes a mistake is the whole reason. You're

(58:22):
precious four.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Through six movies happened, happened.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
He creates the Empire Suckers. So yeah, Jeffrey Jones, Claymation
and Shark Victim and Beetle just beutles.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
This feels that way, But it also seems like Tim
Burton's spirit in some ways of like, oh, I can't
I can't do this. You're saying I can't do this.
Watch Oh I'm gonna make a movie in black and
white with Johnny Depp about the worst director of all time.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
You know, while he's doing Yeah, going back to what
you're talking about, while he's in the middle of Batman
and Batman Returns.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And about to start development on Superman Lives. The Superman
Lives would have been the next movie.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, before we go. So also, this is what's rare
about this movie speaking of people that Tim Burton collaborates
with a lot. No Danny Elfman score and would the
score in this one. It's the only one is by
Howard Shore, who did Silence of the Lambs before this
and then would go on to do Lord of the Rings.

(59:18):
And the story is during Batman Returns, which Danny Elfman
did the score for, they had a little bit of
a falling out and he actually Howard Shore came on
to do some additional music for Batman Returns and then
they really had Danny Elfman and Tim Burton really had

(59:40):
a conflict, I guess on Nightmare before Christmas, Yes, where
Danny Elfman had a lot to do with that because
he's also the singing voice of Jack Skelly or Jack Yeah,
Jack Skellington and wrote the songs and the score, and
there disagreement. I guess on whatever happened to that made

(01:00:01):
Howard Shore come in to do the score for Edward,
and then after that they have reconciled and now it's
all Dan Elfmant all the time. But it is a
rare Timber movie. That's the only one that doesn't have
a Danny Elfant score. That being said, score is great.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Score is great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Sure Shore did a score, and it's very catchy and
you get to hear it a lot because the opening
credits are long and you get to hear the whole.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
Groovy Edward.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
The question any credits? Yeah, Plan nine from Outer Space
got more recognition and attention from this movie or for
the mentioned in the Chinese Restaurant episode of siginfilm. Because
I have a I have a theory, and I'm probably

(01:00:48):
right on this. Not even a theory, I'm one hundred
percent right on this. The Chinese Restaurant has been viewed
more times than the movie Edward first, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Too. I agree. But do people pay it any mind
other than it's just a funny title.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
I don't know, that's my question. So what do you
think get more for the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
I think I think more people would go would want
to at least look up play Anie from Outer Space
after watching ed Wood okay, and not looking up like
Prognosis Negative after that's fair Sinfeld. Although I would love
to watch Forchelle Rochelle.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Oh, I'm still waiting on Michelle Rochelle. Uh Young Girl's
Journey Erotic Journey from Milanda.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Minsk Oli Rochelle.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Okay. So we're gonna break down some of our categories.
Are you ready to do this, Jeff? Do you have
your categories ready?

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
So our first category is the scene stealer, the favorite
character or performance from the movie. It's kind of hard
to not say Martin Landau has better Landau.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Yeah, it's gotta be. Bill Murray's great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
But I think everyone's great. Yeah, I mean I liked everyone,
like I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Really like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I forget his name, but he's the guy that you
talked about at Warder Brothers that he has the meeting with.
Oh yeah, he's Clara Glinda and he's done a bunch
of stuff too, And I like just his kind of
smug attitude. What he's what he says, You're the first
person to get to see my talents thank you, and
even when he leaves calls it mister Ward, mister Ward,
take a look at your little opis and man, we

(01:02:25):
could do some business to you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Calling it a little opus was hilarious. But also what
I thought was fun about that whole run where Edge
trying to get the first movie made, glennar Glinda is like, wow,
was it that easy to get a movie made back
in the day? Like you just convinced the actor too, Yeah,
he was good screen classics.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
He's great too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
He's really good movie. Like I said, there's no like
bad performance, but it's I mean Martin Landau, but it's
Martin Landau by Foar as Bella Lagosi. Even like there's
some scenes in that though, okay we'll talk about because
they're in my in my thing, but definitely Bela Lagosi.
Martin Landau's the reason why he won the Oscar for
it big moment, the favorite or most impactful scene in

(01:03:10):
the movie. What do you got for this one?

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Well, I for me, it's two because I'm a cheat.
I love the premiers. I love the premiere Bright of
the Monster where all hell breaks lose for no reason. Really,
just what's the reason for that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I had that written down. Why are they so mad?

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
They're all insane and they they they essay, poor vampire
and they people steal their their their tires from their hearse.
I don't know why they're so rowdy. They just one
of the Henwood has a couple of those moments where
it's just it's true. I don't think it's based on
reality though. And the other premiere is plan ning from
outer Space at the Pantagious Theater, and I could tell

(01:03:48):
you right now there is no way this movie had
a premiere that grand, with that many people in the audience,
that many people applauding, and woods day when it comes
up in the credits, that is pure for a very
nice ending of the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
But no way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I don't know if it even got a huge theatrical
release at all.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Do you know what's interesting about that scene is I
actually had a thought on it while watching it because
I was like, Man, why are there all these people
here for this strange movie?

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
This? That?

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
And the third I thought it was the delusion of
his mind.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
It's big fish.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Yeah, I thought it didn't happen. Yeah, I think that
was just in his head. Because there's this there's the
close up of Johnny Depp, like reciting the lines from
the movie right, and the camera's real tight on him
the whole time, and I think in his mind he
is seeing his little opus and this huge in front
of the validation that he finally wanted this great movie,

(01:04:46):
this huge movie, in front of a huge premiere, in
front of an audience that adores him and loves him.
Without Edward R. Wood Junior, this would never have happened.
Ladies and gentleman, give it up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
J It's a run down the aisle and he says this.
He gives Bella for Bella, and everybody applods this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
This happens. This happened in his head. You know, he
imagined that this happened. It didn't happen to realize, but
this happened in his head, which is part of one
of I think the most cinematic moments of the movie
is there at the end, and it's one of my
favorite parts of the scene stealing. As we're talking about it,
there's two scenes that I have too, I cheated. One

(01:05:23):
of them is at the end of the premiere, when
after the movie's over, he and Patricia Arqatt's character go
out to the car and he's trying to tell her like,
let's get married, let's go to Vegas, and he opens
the car door and all the water spills out from
the car and then they get in and there's the
kind of a tracking shot where it goes up and
you see that there's this miniature Hollywood set, you know

(01:05:45):
that they're shooting on, which is like again, which made
me think this was like a yeah, it's a model
of Hollywood and the camera pans off over that. I
love that. But what I thought the most impactful scene
was is actually after Bella's out of rehab, where he's
the first celebrity to check into rehab. And I actually
went and looked up the real photos. It really happened,

(01:06:06):
that's the real story. He looks awful actually in the
pictures when he was in rehab. And he gets out
in the movie and Johnny Depp Edwards says, I'm so
sorry you didn't get to see the film at the premiere,
and he goes, oh, I've seen it in my head.
I know this movie. It's in my heart, and he

(01:06:28):
starts giving the lines for the movie, and then there's
the little fans who come and get him his autograph,
and he has this final moment in the sun quite literally,
there's moment in the sun where all is right in
the world and then he dies.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
I really know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
It's interesting. Yeah, sorry, I was gonna say two things
about that based on what you said before. One, his
best performance in the movie he gives in person, and
there's a couple of times in the movie where they
say he's so much scarier person that he's on the screen.
So it's very interesting to see that he gives his
final big performance not on the screen, but it's in
front of a small but appreciative crowd. Number two, to

(01:07:07):
go to your theory that the Plan Night premiere is
in his head. Interesting that Belagosi says when he says,
I'm sorry I didn't get to the premiere, and he goes,
that's okay, I've seen it up here. So that kind
of plants it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
In a weird way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
And maybe we're creating things that don't exist, but I
like to think we're that that that's that's very logical
that now ed Wood has created a premiere in his
head as well. But yes, that's his home.

Speaker 4 (01:07:30):
I have no hole.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
That's that one. Oh yeah, and I thought it was,
so it was actually like a really well it was
really well acted, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
It's well acted, and the dialogue is terrible. So that
is is great. Hunted, despised, living like an animal.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
It's over the top B movie, terrible, but he does
it phenomenally in the in the movie, you know, and
I just love an give that man, an Oscar. I
love that scene. Come on, okay, now here we go
a couple of things here. Let's go to our prop shop.
All right, one item you'd like to own from the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
I thought about this at first. I thought the octopus,
but that would take up too much space, so I
picked Ed's dentures. They are small, they're compact, aren't cute, phenomenal,
They come out twice in the movie, and they could

(01:08:29):
sit right on your desk and you can look at
the teeth because he lost his pearlies.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
On the war.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Yeah. Yeah, that was a scene where I guess it
was Halloween.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Halloween, Yeah, teeth, that would scare me. What about these?

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
The real Dracula can't scare a kid on Halloween, which
was so funny. You've seen it all, you've seen it all, okay, man, Wow, yeah,
you know I too. I struggled a little bit with
the prop shop on this one. I was like, what
do I do? What I landed on is I'd want
one of the flying saucers, the table flying saucers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
From Plan nine, the paper plate flying saucer.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
That I had. I guess it's it's it's weird that
I forgot. So the company that I my company that
I made, the who done it? The clue documentary with
is called it looks So Fake And the logo is
a flying saucer with strings holding it up, and that
is I had forgotten. That's from Plant nine and it's
from Edward. Basically look at that. So that's a that's

(01:09:33):
a good one too. I've forgotten how much that kind
of entered my DNA. Yeah, that that's that's what it's from.
So that's a good one. Yeah, I can't think it
right that the teeth now, I think I like yours better.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Let's see, the teeth is good though, the teeth is good.
I thought about the octopus as well. I thought about
a coffin from Bella, which would be kind of be cool.
I also thought about that whole miniature set of Hollywood.
Oh but I didn't know where I would put it exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
We're very practical in our prop chop just in case
it really happens. I think that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
All right, here we go one liner legend. Okay, what
is your favorite singular point of dialogue?

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
It has already been said in this episode, but I
will say it again because to me, it sums up
the entire spirit and the entire character Edward D.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
Wood Jr.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
It is when he is on the phone outside the
student outside physically outside the movie studio, and he says, really,
worst film he ever saw, Well, my next one will
be better. And I think that's great, and I think
that is a very admirable quality. It's funny because if

(01:10:48):
you made Edwood and kept his personality in a different light,
he could be a terrible villain. Yeah, because he's delusional,
because he brings people along, because he has no talent,
and he he's a good manipulator and a con artist,
and he has no money and he gets money from
other people. He's a terrible person and it all is

(01:11:08):
just It all depends on how you want to look
at it. But I love the worst film he ever saw.
My next time it will be better.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
A great line. And I actually find that ed Wood,
at least from his characterization of the movie, has an
extreme amount of talent, but maybe not for filmmaking but
forgetting films made.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Yeah, good producer.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
So mine is early in the movie. It's after ed
meets Bella for the first time and they're watching They're
watching Dracula on the couch, which in some ways is
heartbreaking that Bella is like still clinging on to, you know,
his big moment in the sun, but in some ways

(01:11:49):
it's also cathartic that he can still find love in
his performance and that Johnny is or ed Wood is
getting to watch the first movie he's ever seen with
the guy who's stile in the movie that he's like
kind of idolized. There's so many themes going on in
this thing, but they shows the real Bela Legosi from
the performance from at least that's what I thought. When

(01:12:11):
they're watching Dracula in that the real movie.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
It's I think it's the movie's actually the Black Cat,
but it's okay, it doesn't matter, but yes, it's really him.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
And when he does the thing with his fingers right,
and then Edward goes, how do you do that? Bella
and he goes, he must be double jointed and you
must be hungarian.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Yes, I don't know what that means, but that's the
lights have no idea. I love that. And there are
a couple other lines that when in my early twenties,
a group of us that worked at the same place,
we made like a crummy movie about people at a party,
but it was we started filming it in the early
two thousands. But my co director and I Drew, we

(01:12:54):
would quote ed would a lot. And one of the
lines we would quote the most we cannot say on
a family friendly podcast our movie, but it is after
Bella what Bella is about to do the octopus scene
and he's not feeling well. He's in the car and
he has to go shoot up unfortunately, and then when
he comes back he says, all right, let's shoot this.
Oh yeah, So we would say that we're about we

(01:13:16):
would quote or even when he goes bys I'm ready now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Yes, I O the camera. Apparently there was some like
consternation with the Lagosi family after the movie came out,
saying that Bella never swore in real life and also
didn't have a hatred for my Frankenstein Karlov Boris Karloff,
he didn't have a hatred for him. I don't know
if that's true or not, but it's the family. So

(01:13:43):
I guess we have to take what they said.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I don't swear in front of my family either, so
they could, they would probably say the same thing. They
have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
You know, that's a great point. That's a great point.
I always feel. I always say that there's a there's friends,
their friend words and their church words, right, and like
you know your brains when to use them, yeah, and
words yeah, And so I think that that could be true.
This is a moment that I feel like you ily
resonated with because I did. In the movie, it's when

(01:14:15):
Ed finishes the script for Glenn or Glinda and he's
sitting with Sarah Jessica Parker and he shows her I
finished my script. Yeah, And then she goes like, oh, congratulations,
I can't wait this to take home and read it.
And he goes, oh, why do you read it now?
And then tell me what you're thinking. You can go
send in the bedroom, go in the next room. I
was like, this is me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
I've done this, I've done that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
No, I can't wait for you to take it home.
I can't wait for you to tell me the next day.
Tell me now, I did it to you. You did
it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
It's true. And I tried to respond as quick as
possible because I know that feeling, because I know the
feeling where you take forever and put your heart and
soul into something and you're like, you can take an
hour and read it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
I did all the work for you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Yeah, go read it. And for whatever reason, you give
it to people that I go, oh yeah, I'll get
to it, and then it takes weeks and weeks weeks.
You don't want to bother them. There's another movie that
came out with Chevy Chase called Funny Farm.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
I've seen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
He does the same thing to his wife and that
where he writes the first few chapters of his novel
and they go to a hotel on their anniversary and
he is present to her is the first three pages
of his novel and he makes her read it and
then she hates it. Spoiler for funny part people.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Spoiler.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Yes, yes, that's very funny. I think a lot of
people that. Again, there's a lot of things as a
creative person that pours your heart and soul into something
like that and then makes your so vulnerable in that
way that you can relate to because well, a lot
of people don't have to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Yeah, it's it's it's I don't know if there's another
I don't know, comparative you can give to somebody, like
to try to explain that through metaphor, like somebody who
doesn't go through this journey of like pouring your heart
and soul into something that you care so much about
but maybe no one else is going to care about

(01:16:09):
and then wanting to hear what they have to say
about it. But that stuck out to me, and I
knew that that would stick out to you. Our next
one of your plot hole parade? Is there any plot
holes in the movie? I don't really feel like it right,
Not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
It's just because it's a movie about a real person
and what they chose to focus on. There's a lot
of the real Edward Edward after Plan nine, Planine was
not a hit. Plan nine didn't have a big premiere,
he didn't make other movies. But they did not mention
the movie that he was a terrible alcoholic. And that's
actually why the character that Sarah Jessica Parker played She
didn't leave him because he was a cross dresser. She

(01:16:45):
left him because he was an alcoholic and his life
actually got very sad at the end. And he and
his wife Kathy, he's Purtric s Arquette. She was also
an alcoholic and they both were kicked out of a
lot of apartments and making soft core pornography to make
a living and died in the seventies, I think, and

(01:17:09):
in total obscurity, and not until people dubbed this as
pat nine is the worst movie that he kind of
got this new recognition that he did live to get
to see. But so as far as plotles, not a
plottal for the movie, but it's just they chose to
focus And I mentioned at the beginning gross colored glasses.
It's definitely a very chipper way to tell his story,

(01:17:31):
which you could also do it in a very sad
way if you wanted to, but that's no fun.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
There's a I wanted that this isn't like a plot
hole inconsistency, But I just wonder if it really happened.
Is there like a documentation of him actually meeting orson
Wells or was that just convenient for the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Not that did not happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Okay, I figured it didn't happen because it was such
a movie feeling moment.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
It's it's Wolfman Jack in Amaron Graffiti, It's what's hitt
a Dodgeable, It's Lance Armstrong's there's always Yeah, you meet
your hero and he gives you the great advice and
then you go out and do your thing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Yeah, now that was And then when I was watching it,
I did look this up and it ended up being true.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
But like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Orson Wells, was Vincent Nafrio in the movie on screen
on screen, but his voice was not him, right, it's
actually the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
For those familiar with the cartoon Pinky and the Brain,
the Brain character sounds a lot like Orson Wells, and
that's who they got to do the voice. So if
you close your eyes during the Orson well scene and
picture of the Brain, that's basically the same voice.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Brain.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Did not know that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Wonder how Dnafrio felt about that movie we've tackled where
a character got dubbed.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Yeah, yeah, of course we're talking about leaving and clue
the movie. Yeah, I don't know how the dubbing, how
that makes somebody feel like in Doctor No Ursula Andres
is dubbed completely who plays honey Rider in Goldfinger or
Finger is completely dubbed mister Bond, I expect you to die?

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
That is like not him saying that didn't David Prows,
who played Darth Vader in the suit when he went
to go see Star Wars not happy, That's what they
said with James L. Jones was the voice who knows?
How could you not know that?

Speaker 4 (01:19:36):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Are we gonna do record by dialogue?

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
He should have been a little bit wiser on that one.
Let's see, we have more categories here. We're gonna go
for best shot fired, most visually stunning moment or scene
in the movie. I mentioned I like the water coming
out of the car just from a cinematic standpoint, but
was there one that stuck out to you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
It's a beautiful movie. It is a Beautifuck and White
is fantastic. Everything looks really good. I think as far
as shot goes, the opening credits are very cool. It's
just it's a takeoff on kind of like the Plan
nine credits where it's the actor's names on Tubestone's and
then there's a stop motion octopus and then there's a

(01:20:23):
stop motion flying saucers. It's very long, Like I said,
it's about three minutes of an opening credit sequence, but
it's cool and it has stop motion kind of like
Pewe's Big Adventure had, So it's very Tim Burton as well,
and starts just kind of setting the tone. So as
far as that, I'll just go with opening credits.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Okay, let's see a couple other ones before we get
to our final thoughts on the film. We already kind
of talked about this, but cameo King or Queen? Was
there one that stood out to you? You know the slurry?

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
I guess, yeah, it's not a necessary a cameo, but
he was definitely a supporting player. You only have three
or four scenes, and so he's pretty great.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Yeah, I thought he was. I thought he was. I
thought he was good in this movie. Obviously. There was
another one that stood out to me that I'm trying
to remember. Who was it that I like?

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
Who played who played of Vampira?

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Oh, Vampira was Lisa Marie who not Press was no,
just Lisa Marie who was Tim Burton's girlfriend at the time,
and he before Helen A. Bottom Carter who then was
cast in a lot of Tim Burton stuff he likes
to cast as ladies. She was also in Mars Attacks
as the alien that Martin Short brings to the White

(01:21:40):
House that does not speak, which is a very vampire thing.
Did I play the part mute?

Speaker 4 (01:21:46):
But she's good? So she she was in that, and
so she did.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
Oh she's in a tim Bird Planet of the Apes too.
I think that's the last one. Okay, before she went
bye bye and then he started, I didn't hell it
about the carner and then she's in her shit, it's
pretty tired.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
Yeah, so here's something I didn't know again that there
was n Elvira before Elvira.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Oh Vampire.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Yeah, I did not know Vampire before.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
And yeah, watching that last night, who I was watching
it with, she said, oh, I thought that was a
Vira the whole time, Like she thought that was based
on Alvira.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
That's what I thought. At first. I was like, wait
a minute, that is that doesn't line up chronologically here.
And then then I am going to the Vampire deep
Dive and I start reading about Vampira and and then
found out that she sued Alvira. They're stealing her act
and lost, so must.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Have a she lost because it's yeah, exact same character,
barely changed the name, watches old scary movies and makes
fun of them on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
It's yeah, it's the same act.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
It's not do do do Do Do do? It's totally different.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
It's totally different. I have a ding, you know, she
has a bangs and Elvira. Elvira had bangs and Vampire didn't. Yeah,
maybe that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Vampire was David Bowie and Queen and Elvira's broudbandwinkle.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
I interviewed Elvira one time, really yeah, yeah, And I
don't remember what it was for. And I remember it
was right after I think she I hope I'm not
saying this wrong. She she had some sexuality awakening. I
think in her book. I'm not sure exactly. I don't
want to misquote it, but we were that's what I think.
We're talking about her book and that, and she said

(01:23:35):
she lost a lot of followers for it or whatever.
And then I think I swore on the air by accident,
because I was like, oh, screw them, you know, but
I think I said something else. And then I asked
her about WrestleMania two, which she was in WrestleMania two
like a second, but I don't actually remember it being
that grave Man interview, not because of her but because
of me. But anyway, Elvira Vampira. I liked seeing vampire.

(01:23:58):
I liked learning about that. So I'm gonna give her.
I'm gonna give her the cameo queen, even give me
some marine.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Yeah, she's funny in it too. I don't think in
real life she was that involved in Edward's life, and
she probably wasn't at bell Legosi's funeral. I think all
she did was she was in Plan nine and that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Mm hmm. But yeah, So before before we discuss if
we recommend this movie, which is probably obvious to the
people who are listening, I want to do something in
real time. I don't know if you've ever seen this
or not. I haven't seen it yet, but I always
like after I find a movie that I really enjoyed
seeing the Eper and Roper review system and upper whichever

(01:24:38):
one it is, okay, And so here's Siskel and E's
Edward review. Have you seen this?

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Okay? So we're gonna be watching this together for the
first time. Reacting to it live on the pod. So
here here we go.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
Oh yes, Plan nine deals with the resurrection of the dead,
long distance electrodes shot into the pinion, and theituitary glend
the dead. You know, maybe you guys were right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Planline is a good time.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
That's Johnny Depp as ed Wood, an energetic young film
director in the nineteen fifties who stopped at nothing to
create some of the worst, most laughable pictures of all time.
And this movie called Edwood, directed by the always inventive
Tim Burton, is simply marvelous. It's one of the great
movies about movie making. It's in love with filmmaking and
the directing impulse. I really like this picture. I think

(01:25:27):
it should be required viewing in every film school in America.
And why because it's about a guy who loves his
work to spide all the roadblocks put in front of him.
Ed Wood is presented here as a cheerful, decent, slightly
weird optimist.

Speaker 4 (01:25:40):
I love this guy.

Speaker 5 (01:25:41):
Here he is getting ready to direct one of his
low budget specials, and his fiancee, Sarah Jessica Parker, esteemed
that he gave the key roles to would be actors
who gave ed money to get the film made in.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
The first place. See the usual gang of misfits and
dope addicts are here, Jenny, I want you strength, say
who's a lug strew? I want you staying away from
the old Willow's Place.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
That's Tony McCoy. He will be portraying Lieutenant Dick Craig.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Really, how much money did he put up?

Speaker 4 (01:26:08):
None? I watch, but his dad gave me fifty grand.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Wood production is the knock of quality.

Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
One of the strangest things about ed Wood he liked
to dress in women's clothing. He played a cross dresser
in his first feature film, the cult classic Glenn or
Glenda got.

Speaker 4 (01:26:27):
Print that Let's move on.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
Don't you want a second take?

Speaker 4 (01:26:29):
For protection?

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
What's to protect? It was perfect?

Speaker 5 (01:26:32):
Ton Edwood accepted the first take almost every time, always
saying it's perfect. He didn't have time or money to waste.
And I also think he just loved making any shot.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Let's mLAN, don't you want to do another take?

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
Here?

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Which, like Big Boat, they had a little trouble getting
through the door.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Now it's fine, it's real, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
In actuality, Lobo would have to struggle with that problem
every day.

Speaker 5 (01:26:55):
One of the best parts of the movie is the
real life friendship that developed between young Ad and veteran
horror star Bella Lagosi, and late in his life, was
a drug addict rescued by Ed's undying admiration. Martin Landau
is dead on brilliant as Legosi.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Mister Lagos, why are you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Win a cop?

Speaker 8 (01:27:12):
I'm fanning, I'm dying, so no, yes on my body
taking on another of us and talk Tore Trashi.

Speaker 4 (01:27:17):
It's fay with cities in ten days.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
If that's conceivable.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
Do you know that I saw you performed Dracula in
Poughkeepsie in nineteen thirty eight.

Speaker 5 (01:27:25):
Ed is so passionate about making movies he'll do anything
to raise funds, anything, even get his goofy troop of
misfit actors to undergo a group baptism so that some
wealthy Baptists will finance ed science fiction Opus Plan nine
from Outer Space.

Speaker 4 (01:27:40):
Bill Murray is one of the true how do you
do it?

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
How do you get all your friends to get baptized.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Just so you can make a monster movie that's not
a monster movie, it's a supernatural thriller.

Speaker 5 (01:27:51):
And wait till you see the loving recreation of Plan nine.
Ed Wood is filmed in gorgeous black and white. That
is a tribute to the fifties and of the black
and white movies of Edwood.

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
Mister Wood, do you know anything about the art of
film production? Well, I'd like to think so.

Speaker 5 (01:28:07):
That cardboard headstone tipped over that this graveyard is obviously phony.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Nobody will ever notice that filmmaking is not about the
tiny details, It's about the big picture.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
This film is just beautiful to look at. Photographed by
Stephan Zapsky. Edwood's movies were so bad they had to
be made by a man.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
Who loved his work.

Speaker 5 (01:28:26):
They were innocent, fun and this movie called Edwood is
a tribute to creative passion and also to friendship. I
loved every single bit of it, and I hope that
it will inspire people interested in making films to follow
their dreams and not just view movie making as a
way to make money. Congratulations all the way around in
this picture. It's one of the year's very best.

Speaker 7 (01:28:45):
Wait O, Jane, I share your delight, and I also
enjoyed every moment of this movie. You know, one of
the key things in the movie I think is the
way that Johnny Depp finds the right tone for the performance.
Because when I heard about this project involving this notorious
cross dresser ed Wood, who made these terrible films, I
thought it was going to be some kind of a
smarmy put down. But actually I didn't take into account.

(01:29:07):
Tim Burton, who I've met a couple of times. He
has a very sweet, optimistic, positive personality, and a lot
of that is reflected in Johnny Depp's performance as ed Wood.
I mean, he's such a positive guy, you can't put
him down. At one point, somebody says to him, are
you a homosexual? And he says, no, I'm a cross dresser.
He's just so happy to share whatever it is with

(01:29:27):
whoever wants to talk to him.

Speaker 5 (01:29:29):
A couple of stories. I once when I started as
a film critics, somebody said to me, you know, there's
this old story about this producer who would applaud at
the end of every movie.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
Yes, because he knew how hard it was to.

Speaker 5 (01:29:41):
Get any movie made. That's the spirit of this picture.
And the other thing is I once said George Lucas,
tell me. He said, you know, you can divide the
directors of the world into those who like people and
those who don't. It's an interesting way to think about movies.
Tim Burton loves people, and he loves this care people.

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
He also loves monsters from outer space.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Wow, what a recommendation.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
All right, we don't need to say anything.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
I did not think that they would go that hard,
Fred would, but they rode for the choy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
They sure did. They were very excited.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
They were very excited by it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
First off, shout out to Siskel and Ebert with their
name drops. Met Tim Burton at George Lucas, George Lucas,
and it's funny that Roger Ebert thought, yeah, I thought
this movie is going to be about a delusional cross dresser,
you know or whatever he said it first it's.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
Well, it shows that the times that was such a
focus on things like we mentioned before. But it's true.
It could have been a movie making fun of people,
like a cool movie. And it's so sweet, like I
don't is sweet. I would like to think as a
as a person, I would do the sweet version, but
I probably would do the make fun of version and

(01:30:57):
it wouldn't be as good. I would be like the
look at these guys kind of movie. We need to
be more. I say it in life like a little
bit of the movie Edwood as opposed to the real
life Edward.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
You know, I think it's it does. It does kind
of ride a line, though, and it kind of depends
on which side of the line you view it from,
because it could be a oh, what's the what's the
comedic term for? Oh not, it's not cynicism. It's a uh,
you know what I helped me out here. It's a

(01:31:31):
type of comedy. Oh my gosh, why am I drawing
a Blanket's a type of comedy where you're making fun
of the people but you don't realize that they're making
fun being made fun of.

Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
Oh well, it's just you can do a very dry
But there's a word for.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
There's a word for it. What's the word? I know
there's a word for h I'll think of it a minute.
But you could look at it from that way right
to where it's cynicism. It's the.

Speaker 4 (01:32:00):
Crap.

Speaker 1 (01:32:00):
It's not sarcastic.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
But if this is gonna drive me crazy, not dark
comedies out defrecat high comedy, situational parody, surreal. Uh, it's
it's like parody.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
It's like farce somethingly a comedian you're thinking of that?

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
Does it?

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
Oh crap, Well, there's a specific play that I'm thinking
of that I just cannot think of the type of
humor it's called, Oh man, this is so annoying, And
there's people screaming in their ears right now on what
it's called.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Oh, to be fair, they've all stopped watching. It's there,
they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
Oh they're not. They didn't make it to this far
in no, no, we were an hour and.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
A half in and we're trying to figure out a
word for a comedy style.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
This is so annoying. But it's like where you make
fun of somebody, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
It's tough in cheek in a way.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Maybe I'll think of it later.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
It's parody with a straight face.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Right, So you could look at this movie from that
perspective of they're actually making fun of all these people
in an arm final final tab.

Speaker 1 (01:33:05):
Where it's not winking at the camera, it's you kind
of have to know this is a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
If you're smart, right, right, right, This is a joke
if you're smart. If you're not smart, you find this
to be.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
I think it's yeah, just pleasy we're not smart.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
That's definitely the case. I can't think of the word
that I've used it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
I didn't realize until just now, do we fell for it?
That we thought it was sweet? The whole world fell
for it. We see we fell in love with a
not good person.

Speaker 2 (01:33:35):
Man, Jeff, why can I think it anyway? I recommend
this movie below. I recommend this movie. Holy I I
really was so. I found myself to be in love
with the film. I really was in love with the
movie at the end of it. And and yes there's
a lot of I've immediately thought of the disaster Artist
that was in my notes, and then I started to

(01:33:56):
think of what is the worst movie? Plannednine from Outer
Space or The Room. I actually think The Room is
just a bad movie.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
I get joy out of watching The Room, too, But
I also like I like going to open mic comedy
or shows, and the comedians that are really really bad
and don't really have jokes. I'm the one that laughs
the hardest because I like terrible, which is why I'm
a fan of Brad Gilmour. So uh way, oh hey,

(01:34:27):
I said that with a straight face too, But I
definitely I guess it's kind of like What's siyscle Eber
did a good job for us. They summed it up
a lot, they really did. You appreciate that, and it
is hard a lot of work. I used to for
a few years. I was a co founder of a
satire film festival, satire, you got it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
You could look at this movie like a satire satire.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Go ahead, I was gonna say. I ran a or
co ran a horror film festival, and so I would
get submissions from young filmmak and it was me and
one other person that had to watch all of them.
And as a want to be filmmaker, I have submitted
to film festivals as well, so I know to your

(01:35:11):
point you mentioned before putting yourself out there, and I would,
even though I didn't want to, I would watch them
all the way through because I hated the thought that
when I submitted something, somebody put it on for one
minute and went nope and tossed the DVDs. To tell
you how long ago was DVDs. So I had a
big stack of DVDs, but I watched them all the
way through, as painful as it was a lot of
the time. But these are people's hopes and dreams and

(01:35:33):
what they found was important. They put a lot of
time and effort into it, and so that gets appreciated,
and that really sums up what the movie, I would
is all about it. It was what he thought was
important and put it out there, which a lot of
people don't do.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
You know, I agree because I liked the story of
the guy applauding the producer applauding after movies made because
you don't know how hard they are. There's things that
I've done in the wrestling business where we produced and
filmed it and you know, kind of there's one in particular,
and that if you look at it, just looking at it,

(01:36:13):
you'd be like, oh, this is a this is kind
of strange or whatever. This is a weird wrestling angle.
But when we made it that night, everybody was so
excited and we are high fiving and we're like this
is amazing, Like oh and then oh you remember this
and then we had to do this. You don't understand
how hard it was to get this shot or to
do this, or to do that. And there's a camaraderie
in filmmaking, which I also think comes through in their

(01:36:36):
wrap party in this movie when they wrap and they're
having the at the meat locker and they're all enjoying it,
and then Edward comes out and drag and they're having
all fun, and it's it's it's an experience to make
a film. There's an experience to make something creative, you know,
whether it be an album or a documentary or a
book or whatever you do with a group of people

(01:36:56):
who are all thinking singularly but acting collectively in trying
to put together something truly that they believe in that
although it might not be great to the world in
mass it is great moments that they are having creating it.
And that's why I think I Edwarod resonated with me
so much, and I could not strongly recommend it enough.
I think it's better than The Phantom. I'll be honest

(01:37:18):
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
I love The Phantom.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
But it's a better movie than The Phantom. But I
still have love very different movie, very different movie. Hard
to compare the two, really hard to compare it, I
will say, because I.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Know we're wrapping up, but I wanted to say another
movie that I would recommend that's kind of along that line.
But I did want to make it another Pick six movie,
because they're not all about movies, making movies. But there
is a documentary. So it's a documentary. It's real called
American Movie and it's from nineteen ninety nine and it's
about a filmmaker named Mark board Chart and he's making

(01:37:51):
a movie. He's been working on this movie forever. He
lives in Wisconsin. He's been making this movie forever. That's
called Covin, but it should be coven because that's how
it's pronounced. But he doesn't like the way coven sounds
like oven man he so he's Covid and he it's
a documentary directed by Chris Smith no relation, who later

(01:38:13):
did Mister McMahon on Netflix and also Tiger King The
COVID Big Covid Sensation on Netflix as well. And it's
about it's basically where you follow another kind of Hollywood
dreamer that the odds are against him. He's not necessarily
good at what he does. But he's got a buddy.

(01:38:33):
He's got one friend that goes along with him through
thicket then, and he's had a tough time. He's got
like an ex wife, he's got kids. And American Movie.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
I highly recommend American Movie. I'm looking it up right now. Okay, interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Yeah, so this is my trailer. If you watch the trailer,
I think you'll be interested enough to try to find it.
It's probably one of my favorite documentaries of all time
because it has that same inspiring thing and it's it
reminds me of what you were saying. How many times
when you get a review from a or feedback from

(01:39:09):
someone else that does something creative, the first thing they
usually say is good job finishing it. Yeah, like when
you wrote your book, people that have done that probably
said a lot of before they even compliment if it's
good or not, they say, good job finishing it. Because
everybody that does this knows that's insane. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
Whenever I do an interview with somebody, whether it's a
movie or a book or whatever, I always say, congratulations
on the book, congratulations on the movie, because it is
it's done. Because this is before we know if it's
a success or not, before we know if critics like
it or not. I'm telling you right now, congrats on it,
because this is a difficult thing that you just achieved.
It's so hard. It's so hard, you know. I used

(01:39:50):
to tell somebody you know about the wrestling show. I'm like, yeah,
it's forty two minutes, but there's so many hours that
go into those forty two minutes, right, so many hours ago.
That book might be two hundred pages, but there's so
many hours to go to those two hundred pages. The
documentary might be ninety minutes, but there's so many hours.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
You could do a clue podcast that's if you watch it,
it's an hour and a half. But well it's not
an hour and a half, but it's a lot of
hours put together, but it's two hours. Yeah, what were
we doing At the end of that podcast, we just
kept saying, I can't believe we finished it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
I can't believe we finished I was shocked that we
finished it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
So we got here.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
But edward strong recommend from me from Jeff Smith. This
has been another episode of Pick six and I'm about
to drop it on you of the next movie. Oh yeah,
my next pick for Pick six. You said that you
have not seen this movie. There's been a lot of
news about this franchise in the you know world as
of late, So the next movie will be the at

(01:40:47):
first critically panned but now critic favorite of the franchise.
It's going to be on her Majesty's Secret Service. Okay,
starring George Lazenbye.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
Changed, Oh, I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
Okay, yes, so we will watch on her Majesty's Secret
Service for the next episode. A pick six. That's Jeff Smith.
Where can they find you again? Jeff Smith movie guy.

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
Yeah that's right. Instagram Jeff Smith movie.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
Guy at Brad Gilmore Brad Gilmore dot net till that
other JABRONI wants to give up the dot com and
get them. We'll see you at the next episode.

Speaker 8 (01:41:23):
A pick six based only on the secret testimony of
the miserable souls who survive this terrifying deal the incidents places.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
My friends, we cannot keep this a secret any longer?

Speaker 8 (01:41:38):
Can your hearts stand the shocking facts of the true
story of Edward d

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
Passssssssssssssssssssssss

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ed Wood (1994) [Jeff Pic]

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Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

All Episodes

Ed Wood (1994) [Jeff Pic]

Stuff You Should Know