The Phantom (1996) [Brad Pic] featuring Director Simon Wincer

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh Sex.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Today We're talking about nineteen ninety six is the Phantom.
In the action packed world of The Phantom, Kit Walker,
played by Billy Zayne, is the twenty first descendant in
a long line of massed heroes sworn to protect the
innocent and fight evil.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Known as the Ghost who Walks.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
The Phantom operates in the mysterious jungles of Bengala, where
his mythic presence strikes fear into the heart of the villains.
When a ruthless businessman named Xander Dratx played by Treat
william seeks to unite three ancient skulls that grant ultimate power,
the Phantom must race against time to stop him. Along
the way, kit teams with the intrepid journalist Diana Palmer

(00:41):
played by Christy Swanson, who gets swept into the adventure
as they travel from the depths of the jungle to
the bustling streets of New York City. With thrilling action,
daring escapes in a touch of humor. The Phantom is
a classic tale of good versus evil, brought to life
by great visuals and a heroic legacy passed down through generations.

(01:01):
Can the Phantom stop Xander tracks before he unleashes chaos
in the world, or will this be the.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
End of the legend? This is the Phantom.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Just take a look around.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Darkness rules the earth in a dangerous world. Government's crumble,
chaos raise in a treacherous time.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
There is opportunity in chaos.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Evil is a fact.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
We shall succeed where they have failed. Draxis on a
quest for a supernatural power.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
They know far too much and courage should stop them.

Speaker 5 (01:40):
Are the only one who can is a phantom?

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Who was that guy?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Somebody I already killed?

Speaker 3 (02:07):
There are some who say.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
He is only a myth.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
As soon they will discover.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
The Phantom is real.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Pack sex, ladies and gentlemen. The time has arrived. This
is Pick six. My name is the Boat. Brad Gilmour
joined by Jeff Smith. Jeff, First off, how are we doing?
Happy New Year?

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh, Happy New Year. I'm so excited. I've been sitting
here in this very spot since the last episode of
Clue the Movie Podcast, waiting for the Stay of Cove
and here we are picking our six.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, guys, so look for this is your first time
tuning in to us. First Off, sorry Kelly, now I'm kidding. Secondly,
Jeff and I just finished a two year run of
Clue the Movie podcast where we watch Clue the Movie
one minute at a time. Jeff is a documentarian who
is the man behind Who's Done It the Clue documentary.

(03:15):
I have a couple of other interests outside of the
world of movies, including Back to the Future podcast, obviously
a book about Back to the Future, James Bond, working
Pro Wrestling ESPN, CW, all those good things. But we
decided that we wanted to continue going with our podcasting
journey in this idea form called Pick six, which is

(03:36):
this show. So every year, for as long as we
decide to do this, every month, Jeff and I will
both pick six movies the other one hasn't seen or
has no recollection of that we find to be some
of our favorite movies or some of our hidden treasures
or guilty pleasures, and we will watch them and then

(03:56):
break them down through a series of categories that we
have watching the movie and just general conversation. We're going
to try to get filmmakers involved, actors involved who were
in these movies for you all, but sometimes it just
gonna be Jeff and I doing what Jeff and I do.
And that's what the concept of pick six is. Jeff,
this was a a I wouldn't say a drunken text

(04:18):
because I don't drink, but this was a late night
text I sent you months and months ago. Hey, I
have an idea for the next next show. Here it is,
and you're responsible for my dream. Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, yeah, very late in the night, which usually panics me,
but it was. It was Brad Gilmour with I have
our next show, and very detailed text about what it was,
and then ten seconds later the logo for it popped
up and with us, you know, posed right in front
of a logo, it's a Pick six and with the

(04:50):
spelling and everything. It was like he had a vision
and who am I to say lame? Yeah, that's how
would that have been like at you know, in the
morning when I finally messaged back on nah.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
I mean I would have accepted it.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I would have accepted it because I know not every
idea is a good idea, but but I felt I
felt passionately enough to make the the cover art at
the time.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Graphic, Yeah, graphic. There was a thumbnail when whenever I
get any kind of idea that has a thumbnail. Then
that's pretty serious business.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
It's not just a one off thing text.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I don't argue a thumbnail ever, and that's advice for
all the kids out there.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Don't argue with a thumbnail. But we wanted to start.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Also, I was gonna say I also had a feeling
I knew what the first movie was going to be,
because throughout the Clue Movie podcast, the Phantom has come
up many times as the you haven't seen the Phantom,
you haven't seen the Phantom. And I had not seen
The Phantom. And it was also a movie that I

(05:56):
never I'm sure there were times you thought.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
When you say said, you know, you got to go
see the you have to see the Phantom, and then
we get back together to do the other podcast and
you'd say so a no, I and it never never
occurred to me.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I think I started to watch it once on a
day I had bad WiFi and I didn't get past
the bridge, which we'll get to mm hmm, and uh,
it just dipped the Wi Fi crept out, and I said, well,
that's a sign I'm not meant to see the Phantom
unless there's some kind of reason that could be either
monetized or provide entertainment to the world. Then that's when

(06:33):
I'll watch the Phantom. And here we are in that
exact scenario.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Lo and behold, we're here. You know we're here, and
I've seen the Phantom. Now you have seen the Phantom.
So I want to tell you for I want to
tell you first. So this is how we'll always start off.
If it's a movie that I selected, I'm going to
tell you why I love this movie, and then we
will get Jeff's reaction overall, first reaction to the to

(06:56):
the film, kind of your first impression, if you will.
And then at the end obviously of this whole scenario,
we'll figure out if Jeff actually like the movie or not.
But you know, for me, this is a movie that
I remember going to Blockbuster dating myself and seeing the
cover of.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
And what was really cool about this film.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Is it came in a kind of the shell VHS case,
not just the regular paper sleeve. It was in the
shell VHS case and it was all purple. The whole
out the shell was purple, and it had the Phantom
on the front with his fist ring in the foreground.
And if you would move the VHS cover, the lasers

(07:41):
from his ring would shoot out. It was one of
those kind of things. So you remember, I don't know
what those things are called, like holographic, Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
What should mean. They're the ones that you could scratch
it and that sounded like you were doing like way
like some turntake. I have notebooks in school like that
where I would do rocket by Herbie Haycock. You could
you go.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Right exactly, So that's what the cover was. So it
got my attention, and I had no idea what the
Phantom was, and I remember going and watching it, and
then the first time I watched it, I said, this
is the best movie I've ever seen in my life
at the time. And this is when having no you know,
really film knowledge or experience. This is me seven eight
years old and just loving the purple costume and the

(08:26):
skulls and just the whole world of it. I just
found the adventure great. And then I've come to know
that these are kind of my movies. I love adventure, treasure,
those kind of things are fun. And then when you
read about the Phantom, the actual character that the movie's
based on the leaf Folk comic strip series where this started.

(08:49):
This pre dates Superman. The Phantom pre dates Superman. There's
a case to be made that he is the first
superhero ever. You can trace it back to the early
nineteen hundreds, prior to Superman.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
I think maybe even the late When did it come out?
I think it was the early nineteen hundreds, but well.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
In my research I saw he's the first one to
wear skin tight costume. Yeah, which it is, which they
carried through the movie as well. That is hello, Billy Zaid.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, we're gonna talk about that. Nineteen thirty six. February
nineteen thirty six is when Lee Falk first debuted The
Phantom in a comic strip, and he wrote for The
Phantom until his death in nineteen ninety nine, so this
was his life long passion.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
The Phantom, also in comic book world, is also known
for being the first hero that has just the white
for the.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Eyes when they put the mask on. You know what
I'm talking about?

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Where you see it in Batman the animated series or
Green Lantern Robin whoever wears the mask, you don't see
the pupils that started with the Phantom as well, and
the Phantom from a comic book standpoint has been all
over the place. There's been a run in DC comics
published for The Phantom, there was a run in Marvel
Comics for The Phantom. He's been in his own comics.
He's been in I think some Dark Horse runs and

(10:07):
things like that. So he is a real well known
character in the comic book Realm. But this movie, I
guess the lore of it, the idea of the ghost
who walks and this is a guy who continues to
you know, live forever, just because they're passing it down
to family member to family member. I really liked and
that we're kind of just thrown into this world immediately.

(10:30):
You get a little bit for those who came in late,
you get a little bit of exposition at the top,
and then boom, we're right in it, and.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Very very efficient in its origin story.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yes, we're gonna give you about thirty seconds. We're gonna
give you.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
About a minute and a half of how we are here.
And I appreciated that for those who came in late,
where the movie starts, that was also how the comic
book would start.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I really loved this movie.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Directed by Simon Windsor, who we will have a portion
of interview I did with him played on this show today.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
He also did free Willie movies like that.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I'm really really fond of the film, although either most
people aren't as fond of it, or they haven't seen it,
or they're.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Like, oh, yeah, I kind of remember that movie. Yeah.
First impressions as a phantom.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Okay, I will say the first thing I thought when
and I mentioned it just a second ago. The origin
story is quick. He's a boy, he's on a pirate ship,
he watches his dad die, he finds himself on an
island where the people of the island raise him and

(11:37):
boom title. That's it. That's all you need.

Speaker 7 (11:41):
And I think the movie as a whole, A lot
of it for me is you don't really need to
know anything, and a lot of things aren't gonna make sense.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's happening because the movie's happening, and just either you
go with it or you don't. So watching it, it
took me a few minutes to kind of get the
tone and to get where it's that that's what it is,
and that the phantom character in of itself, he's kind
of a dork. And that took me a second because

(12:17):
that's unusual as well, and that's not what I was
expecting either. He's just kind of a he's like if
Clark Kent, if Superman kept is Clark Kent persona as
Superman all the time. It was just kind of aw shucks.
And you know, there's a wonderful moment I think that
sums up his entire character. Where he's running through is
it a train station or hotel or something, and he

(12:38):
knocks he bumps into a lady and she drops her
purse and he stops his chase to pick it up
and hand it to her and apologizes and then resumes
his big chase. That's the phantom. He's just he's a
he's like he's like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Twins. He's, you know,
been raised on the island, even though he did go
to school in America, which I was kind of confused

(12:59):
because I think, Oh, he's been on this island this
whole time, that's why he is Oh no, we spent
a lot of time in America. Okay, But if you
kind of go with it, like the the big weapon
that is supposed to to take over the world, it's
not practical, it's it's you'd have to carry it around
a lot it's a bunch of skulls. That's just shoot lasers.

(13:20):
But okay, for the movie, you just kind of go, oh,
that's that's the MacGuffin. All right, that's it. That's fine.
And as long as you kind of shift your mind
to this, you don't eat. It's a movie because it's
a movie. It's happening. Because it's happening, it's fun. So
I'll say it's fun. I enjoyed other movies similar I'm
sure this movie gets grouped in a lot with the

(13:41):
Rocketeer and the Shadow, and I definitely got more out
of the Rocketeer because I think there was more to
the main character. But I really liked Treat Williams about
he He lived up to his first name. He was
definitely a treat and he looked like he was having

(14:03):
the best time. And some of the lines he says
while the magic is happening, and even his last line
I thought was.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yes, we're gonna We're gonna get there. So yeah, yeah,
we're gonna get there.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah. As a whole, I appreciated it for what it was.
I think I would appreciate it more from nostalgia, and uh,
I can see how it's a movie that people would
grow up with, especially because it's PG. The fact that
now I know it came into clamshell VHS makes sense.
It's a family movie. There's really no violence, there's very
limited profanity. I think there are a couple of ass's

(14:36):
dropped in there every once in a while. But but
even the romance is barely it's kind of there. But
but it's just it's just here's a movie where this
guy is running around in purple and they're scared of him.
Now I killed him already. It's gonna be another guy
in a purple suit.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
No, no, well, you know, me got to be a ghost.
He's the ghost who walks.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
So that looks totally for this movie. You have to,
I think, buy into the tone real early because if
you don't buy into the campy B movie that it
really is, and I think it's.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
It's not the B movie.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
You know pulp, you know, show our pulp style film
that Indiana Jones films are. You know, it's a different
type of pulp. It's way more campy. Even though Indiana
Jones like Raiders and and Crystal I mean not Crystal Skull,
Raiders and Last Crusade and Temple to Doom, the eighties run.

(15:41):
They all have very campy moments at times for Indy,
and there are these mysticism elements to it and whatever.
This one's way more campier. I would say, like like
an Indiana Jones movie is more like a Sean Connery bond,
whereas this is like a Roger Moore bond.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
That's my comparison for these.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
But yet again the clamshell that that really gives it
away of where like you know, the love for the
movie is because it was this PG movie.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Now, this movie did not do great.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
It was released in the summer of nineteen ninety six,
little under two hours, which I appreciate. I appreciate when
movies were under two hours and you still felt like
you got a good movie. Movies one hundred minutes can't
beat that. It cost about fifty million dollars to make
this movie in nineteen ninety six, and it got twenty
three and a half million at the box office.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, speaking of one hundred, that's an appropriate number because
I was looking at the ranking of nineteen ninety six,
what in the box office, what ranking was the Phantom
and it was number one hundred really the year it
was after ninety nine was a movie called Extreme Measures,
which I had to look up because I didn't remember

(16:59):
that movie either, And that was a movie with Hugh
Grant and Gene Hackman and Sarah Jessica Parker, I think
so sure. And then number one oh one was Fled
with Laurence Fishburn and Steven Baldwin and young Samahayak, which yeah,
but it was number one hundred of the year. Good

(17:22):
round number.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Though, yes, very good, very good round under.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
So just to put it in though to terms for everybody,
as far as what like a million dollars, let's see,
let's let's look at this. So one million dollars in
nineteen ninety six compared to today is essentially two million dollars.
That's how inflation works. One million dollars is two million dollars.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
So this movie was one hundred million.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Dollars to make in today's dollars. I don't know if
I see one hundred million dollars here. But there are
some beautifulshots.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, there's a lot of practical effects that are fun.
It's very good looking movie. I was watching the review
that Ciskel and Eber did of the Phantom and Geene
Siskel not a huge fan, but Ebert, Roger Ebert really
liked it. He thought it was great, and he really
compliment He said it's the best looking movie he had
seen in a long time. And it's true. There's a

(18:22):
lot the cinematography is so nice that I noticed that
the end credits of the movie are just still shots
of all the locations from the movie and the set
that of His Layer, the Phantom's Layer, is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yes, nice, Yes, I do want to. I do want
to get into that. I do want to get into that.
But I do think that the movie is a very
good looking movie. It's it's pretty in it and it
shows off, you know, the the jungles where they filmed
in the best way I know. They filmed a lot
in Australia, they filmed a lot in Thailand. I think
all the New York stuff was filmed in California. But

(19:01):
it was a it was a really fun world to
me that we got into. So that's why I want
to I want to get into a couple things here.
I want to get into a couple of things because
obviously the movie has not withstood the test of time,
but there are elements of this film that I think
are undeniably fun. Okay, and we're gonna get to our

(19:23):
first category right now, where I think we're probably going
to have the same answer. But our first category is
scene Steeler. This is your favorite character from the movie
or the favorite performance from the movie. I think you
probably led onto it a little earlier, but treat Williams
x ANDERW Drax is your pick?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Oh absolutely?

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Why?

Speaker 1 (19:46):
He just he seems to be having the most fun.
He's a villain that is definitely enjoying being a villain,
and he's just he also is kind of a goofy
kind of guy. Like when he first he gets the
two skulls together and it starts shooting lasers all over
the place, he's just kind of going, yes, oh this

(20:08):
is neat. You know, I'm paraphrasing now, but it's just like, hey,
there you go. And he's just having a good time.
And I think that I don't think he's a bad guy,
Like I'd hang out with him, and he just seems
like a happy dude.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
He seems like a happy due, a happy dude.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
But you know, like I wouldn't want to hang out
with Lex Luthor or the Joker. They you know, I
would be afraid, but I think that with Drax, you're
kind of like, hey, you know, he's got some bad ideas,
but he's having fun.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
I will say this because I don't think that The
Phantom is really known for its phenomenal acting performances overall,
Like everything's very one note and you know, like you said,
they're all in the movie that they're in, except for
Treat Williams. Treat Williams is like, look, I know what
kind of movie this is. I don't know if y'all do.

(21:04):
I know my role and I'm going to play the
hell out of it. I'm going to be over the top.
I'm going to be as villainous as I can be.
I'm going to give you these line deliveries which are
so unique to this character. You really felt because I'd
seen Treat Williams in a lot of different things. Here's
actually a fun fact. Treat Williams was supposed to Treat

(21:25):
was supposed to be my name. That's what I was
going to be named by my mother after Treat Williams
because she loved him so much in movies. Right, And yeah,
Treat Gilmour doesn't exactly have a great ring to it.
A bullet doj a big bullet there. But I think
that i'd seen him in other things before this and
since this, and to me, he really creates this Xander

(21:50):
Drax character who's almost I guess he's kind of the
Trump of his day, as far as I'm talking about
pre President Trump, like the New York billionaire who's got
his name on the buildings. There's the Dracts building in
New York, you know, trying to.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Take over the world.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
I think it modeled into maybe maybe not just Trump,
but that New York type, the New York money guy type.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
We don't know where he got his money from.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
We don't know if it's family money, we don't know
what he's doing, but we do know that he's tied
within the mob and he's doing things extracurricularly in order
to make this happen.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
And that's the classic scene with all the mob guys
around the table. Dick Tracy a few years earlier had
a very similar scene where you know someone's not gonna
make it even like kill Bill has the exact same
scene where all the bad guys around the table and
if someone doesn't agree and that's a cool scene right there.
He's got an arm on him that tracks.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well, yes, And what I want to say why he's
the scene steeler for me is because really every every
scene that he's in there's a memorable moment, a mirrorable
line delivery, or you just feel like, out of everyone
in the movie, he inhabited the character the best, like

(23:11):
and as an audience member, you really want to see
him get his comeuppance, like you don't want him to win.
And you know they say, like a good villain thinks
that he's right, and you know you can kind of
understand why he wants to do the things he wants
to do. I don't understand why he treat Williams Sander
Drax wants these skulls. It's not really explained other than

(23:34):
he just wants this mystical power. How he finds out
about him. Not sure what's his connection to the Saying brotherhood.
It's ambiguous at best, because yeah, it's just cause. But
he is my favorite part of this movie as I've
watched it as an adult. And by the way, he's

(23:56):
a handsome son of a gun tree. Williams is a
really handsome.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Doesn't hurt he's got good hair and this as well.
I mean, you can't take away from the wig. I
think Billy's ain't his way. I don't know, but I
don't know. But what's interesting about his performance in this,
and I guess what took me a second to kind
of adjust to the tone of the movie was at

(24:22):
first I was watching it thinking this would benefit if
it was a little bit more obvious in its spoofiness,
Like I was reading that Joe Dante was originally attached
to be the director of this, and Joe Dante, of
course in Gremlins and Inner Space and The Verbs and
Small Soldiers, and he's fantastic, and I think and even

(24:43):
Bruce Campbell was talked about played the Phantom, which I
could totally see, but that would have been he would
have been similar in his style to what Tree Williams
was doing. And I don't know if that benefits the
movie more not, or is just they decided that's not
the movie that they're doing, because they could have gone
even more over with the isn't this ridiculous what we're doing?

(25:06):
And why is this not explained? Because all right, moving
on that we have we as the audience kind of
have to decide, oh, that's what they're doing, Okay, it's not.
They don't ever wink at the audience ever. They just
play it pretty straight and either you like that or
you don't, so I can see how it's off putting

(25:27):
to something. Do they understand this is? Are they plot
holes on purpose or are they plot holes because they
just it's not a good movie. I think it's on purpose,
but they just never go all the way treat Williams style.
But he certainly did, and I think that's why he
is the best character in it, because he they what's
the phrase? Now, he got the assignment, he knew what

(25:50):
he was in and he went all the way, and
everybody else was a little more subtle. I don't know
if Christy Swanson got it. I can't tell. She's kind
of bland in this. And then I think Billy Zaye
really concentrated on his mannerisms as the phantom, matching that
style of thirties movies. There's a point where he goes
to open a locked door and he doesn't just like

(26:13):
pull out the door, he like goes like he does.
It's really big and and he indicates big time. If
it were a silent movie, you'd still get it. So
I think his his style is like that. So I
don't know. I appreciate what treet William's doing, and I
think if anybody has a favorite character, I was very surprised,
but it's not him.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
It's really it would be really hard for it to
not be Xander Drax. I mean even a scene at
the end. This isn't in one of my one liners,
but this is. This is a scene at the end
where he's talking to the pirate king cam I saying,
and he goes, my name is Xander Drex x A
N D E R D r A X begins and

(26:54):
ends with a letter X.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Is a point.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah you just spelled it, We understand, begins and m's
with the letter X. And yes, he definitely knew what
movie he was in. And that's why treat William Xander
dracts one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Okay, big moment, your favorite or most impactful scene in
the movie. I'm gonna go first on this one because
I think the best sequence are seen in the movie
is when they're in the Museum of Natural History. I
think that it encapsulates this movie in five minutes because
you see Billy Zayne and Christy Swanson, they're going to

(27:32):
go get the jade skull and I and this is
what I love always about like a great hero protagonist
is he always like points out like the history of
the item.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
It's like very James Bond. Like remember I don't.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Know how many James Bond movies you see, but you
know it'd be like a m would be like, James,
what do you know of diamonds?

Speaker 3 (27:50):
And then you know, Bond wis be like, oh well, not.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Much, and then he would tell you everything that there
is to know about diamonds.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
When Billy Zaye's character is here, kit Walker and they
see the jade skull in the setting that it's in
in the Museum of Natural History, and he's like, this
is wrong. This is the wrong time period, this is
the wrong era, this is the wrong culture. And he's
like so offended that they put this jade's skull in

(28:18):
the thing. And then he respects the history of what
the skull is because it comes from this Bengala jungle
that he grew up in. But then also he has
no care in the world and just takes one of
the posts that hold up the velvet rope and just
smashes the glass and that's when she says, oh, we

(28:39):
could just break the glass. Christy Swanson's character and grabs
the skull. He looked really cool in that moment.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
That was a very cool moment.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Then it's followed by the craziness of Treat Williams, who
enters and he like shoes everybody away from the museum.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Hi, bye bye. Now museum security, it's all under control.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
And then the two skulls come together and there's a
smoky bag and then laser shooting on a map that
just so happens to be there. It points to the
right place that they're supposed to go. Are they going
to the Bermuta triangle? No, they're going to the Devil's vortex.
You know, they had to make it their own thing.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
And it's true, what if they were in a different room,
would they would they have been magnetized to a map?
Or it doesn't matter because movie is movie.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
The movie is movie.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
I think that's that's the scene where I went, Oh,
it doesn't matter, Okay, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
You know, it's happening right here. And now it's another
great Treat Williams moment and to me, that's my favorite.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
The audience on that if you're wondering how is this happening,
it's happening right here and now shut up.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Just go with it. So that's my favorite scene in
the movie.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yes, for me, it was. This is the scene where
I got on board because it starts off. The movie
starts with a fun you know, bridge, rickety bridge and
a truck on a bridge, and it feels very Indiana Jones.
And it makes sense because this movie was actually written
by Jeffrey Bohm, who's the writer of Indiana Jones The

(30:09):
Last Crusade, so that checks and director Simon Winser had
directed a lot of episodes of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles,
so it definitely has Indiana Jones of the DNA. I
thought that scene with the rickety bridge was kind of
a poor man's Indiana Jones. So I wasn't on board yet.
But there's a wonderful scene with the phantom and what's

(30:33):
the Christie Swatson character's.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Name, Diana Palmer.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Diana I knew how today, Diana. They're on a biplane,
which he first questions, do you know how to fly?

Speaker 4 (30:44):
Shut up?

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yes, And they're on the plane and the Phantom's horse
is running below the plane, and the horse is just
as fast as a speeding biplane. Yes, and they're good.
They have to jump from the plane. I forget why
they just do. They kill the other plane.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
The plane got shot and it was losing fuel.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh thank you. They're runny out of fuel. Okay, So
they don't want to land. They just want to jump,
so uh, which is fine. It's much easier to jump
on the horse that's keeping up with the plane below you.
That's gonna hurt, but we're gonna do it. I like
the Phantom jumps first, because you don't know then he
just met Christie's Watson. It's fine. He jumps from the

(31:28):
plane and lands on his running horse and then looks
up and goes, okay, now you. And she does it
at the last second, which is great. And it looks
really good practical wise, as far as the effects go.
I bought it. And then the plane of course has
to go blow up into a mountain and it does
and that looks great too, and looked really good. And

(31:48):
I hadn't seen that in a movie before, so when
that happened, I'm like, all right, Phantom, I'm on board,
I'm here, and I stopped. I wrote down on my
little notebook away jumping on running Horse, and I didn't
write a lot of notes after that because at that
point I'm just watching the movie. But that was the
scene that I that I came on board. So if

(32:10):
you're watching The Phantom, Ladies and Gentlemen, and you're like,
I don't know, hang on, wait for the plane, because
it's pretty good. It's it's good. It's it's up there
with an Indiana Jones stunt, I will give it that.
That's where it went to where the promise of The
Phantom was.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
I think, right, I I actually I really do like
but yeah, that's where I mean like the Roger Moore
camp style of the movie. I mean, it's a pulp
movie and it doesn't play as serious as Last Crusade does.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Let's say, did you use that because of the same screenwriter?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
But it definitely it definitely has that DNA in it,
which is probably why I like the movie even more.
I just love the I love period like pulp movies
like this, and I can understand why that would get
you on that that'd be the moment where I'm on.
So that's just a big moment. Okay, this one's probably

(33:11):
an easy one. But this is prop shop. So this
is your favorite prop that you want from the movie
or you'd like to own. What what would you go
with on this one?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I mean, the ring is obvious, it's gotta be. The
ring is cool and it's practical. It's not going to
take up a lot of space in your home. You
could move it, you could stick out of your pocket,
you could wear it. The belt is good too, but
that's just that would take up a lot of space.
His dad's belt.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
So you're gonna go ring for me? It's for me.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
It's the skulls, the skulls of Tuganda, the one of gold,
the one of silver, and the one of jade. Not again,
great great table top item. You could use it, like
you know, in the middle of your dining table as
a centerpiece. It's a conversations. They look really cool. I
actually think that they look really really cool, those skulls,

(34:05):
the way that they're designed, with the jewels in the
eyes and things like that.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
The ring, obviously, I actually think they I think I
have a phantom ring.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Do you have one?

Speaker 2 (34:16):
I think I do somewhere. They because they as part
of the movie and my brother, my oldest brothers one
who told me about this and then I went to
go find one and buy one. But he said, when
you because he saw the movie in theaters. Shout out
my brother Rusty. He saw the movie in theaters and
he said, part of buying a ticket, you got a

(34:36):
little phantom skull ring Like that was really.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Especially this to be a hit, didn't they? They thought
it was gonna be huge. The promotion is it seems good.
Although I watched the trailer yesterday after I watched the movie,
and not a good trailer. I can see how this
one squeaked by because I was even looking at what
else had come out and what I was doing in
the summer of ninety six, I was going to the
movies a lot. So this one, for whatever reason, just

(35:04):
is one of those. And I think the whole Pick
six thing is gonna be a lot like that, because
we you and I have seen a lot of movies,
and I think the ones that we haven't had been
ones that have just squeaked by, Like for whatever reason.
It wasn't like we said I'll never see it, or
I made a conscious twist not to see it. It just
did it happen? And I think that, But the trailer

(35:26):
was not great and it came out in June, so
that's also very ambitious. Especially in the nineties, the summer
was a big deal.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
I mean it still is, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
And there's not as many movies, but at the time
there were so many. And this is, you know, the
summer of Independence Day, and and Nutty Professor and Twister
had just come out a little bit before that, and
so there was a there was a lot. Cable Guy.
These were all the big movies that I went and
saw in the theater, but not the Fantom. And the

(36:02):
fact that they spent so much on the cool video box.
That's not that's a little that's at least five cents
extra to have the Cha Chaine image. Yeah it worked.
Look it got young Brad Gilberg.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
It got me. But but I agree.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I almost wonder if this movie was just not only
the wrong time of year, I also wonder if it
was the wrong year. I wonder if by ninety six
people were still wanting to see movies in this vein,
because you got to think, this is this is post
eighty nine, and eighty nine is where you had Karate
Kid three and Last Crusade and Back to the Future two,

(36:40):
and you had Batman, and you had all those great
movies that came out in eighty nine, which I felt
like was the last breath of this style of film
in my opinion, right because in ninety three when a
Cop three come out, everly was Cop three ninety three.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Ninety four?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
To me, like, this feels like an eighties movie in
the mid nineties. In my opinion, I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I think it is either too late or too early.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Interesting because this is this is in the middle between
pre marvels. So this is before even Blade, this is
before X Men. This is four years before X Men,
and then this is what seventy years post Batman. So
in that middle time to where we've gotten a couple
of bad Batman movies, we're about to get Batman and Robin.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I was just about to look up what Batman robbins
that was ninety seven seven. I'm pretty sure this is
no weird period. I was thinking about this where like
comics book movies, another one. I want to check the
year for this too, because I think it's a little
bit after this. But yeah, Mystery Man ninety nine is
a great combook movie that did not do well and

(38:04):
it is. I think Mystery Min is another one that's
before its time because it's you could say it was
the Guardians of the Galaxy of the nineties where they
brought it's had a kind of irreverent tone. It kind
of took the piss out of superhero movies a little bit.
It was the movie that brought us smash Mouth smash
Mouth All Star, not Shrek. It's originally from Mystery Min.

(38:26):
But I think Mystery Man, had that come out, you know,
ten years later, would have been huge, and it was
just in that gap where the filmmakers are in the
right spot, but the audience just wasn't there yet. I
think the nineties were weird about that. Like you like,
pre Scream, you weren't gonna do a horror movie because

(38:47):
we did want those at the time. And then it
just took the one to do it, and it wasn't
The Phantom and it wasn't Mystery Min. It you know what.
It happened later, probably till it was.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
I think x Men did it, and I think that
was like I think x Men did it, but I
think Spider Man blew it up.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Sure, even Spawned was in that nineties period, and Spawned
didn't do well either, And I like, sure.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
It's a weird mine. It's weird, but I like it.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, but it tanked as well. I remember seeing that
in the theater and I was the only one in
the theater and it was just people weren't in that
zone yet. They tried, the studios tried a bunch of them,
and it just didn't pan out. But I think that's
why these movies now get the cult following because now
the year is irrelevant. It's just a movie that you
can find stream it anywhere, so you don't have to

(39:37):
think about the context. You don't have to think about
what was going on the world or if there was
a before Batman or Robin or after Batman forever. It's
just a fun movie. So take a look.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, and to me that you're you're so right about
the nineties period, because I think that we were what
would you say, like the nineties were?

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I think there.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Were still action action movies were still doing well in
the nineties. People like action movies. That's where you kind
of have like the over the top ones like The
Armageddons and the right films of that ilk lethal weapons
were still doing good in the nineties, even those kinds of.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Where that Summer Eraser Arnold Schwarzenegger movie came out, and
that was not a huge hit for Old Schwartzegger. So
that's what even he would started ticket dip. So these
movies that were huge in the eighties and it's I
think you're right to tie it to eighty nine. There's
a weird period there where Spectacle was. I mean, you

(40:40):
look at Jurassic Park as ninety three, but Last Action
Hero was ninety three. Last Action Hero did not do
well and so then it became disaster movies again, like
Dante's Peak and Volcano and ID four. Independence Date was
the big movie of this year, and that didn't really
have huge stars in it. It just had the White
House blow up, and that's what people were going twister

(41:02):
twist that year. Yeah, and that was bainly because the
trailer just showed a tire flight into the car and
everybody's like, yes, I'm going speed. Around this time, it
was more just like kind of high concept as opposed
to who's in it and just what do you need
to know? The bus needs to go fast?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Okay, Yeah, that's the whole movie. That's They're on the bus.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, And so I can see why this movie
kind of just was out of its element as far
as time period goes.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
But let's go to people. What's a mission impossible?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Right, Let's go to our best lines of dialogue one
liner legends. I have several for this, several.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Go ahead, I need to look mine up.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
So my first one, I think you hinted to it earlier,
is Xander Drags's delivery of unbelievable last line classic and
then he disintegrates into a million dust particles. The unbelievable
was a great, great line reading by Xander Drax. Not

(42:09):
a great line, but a great line reading. Also, Tree
Williams says history is about to be made, and you're
all a part of it. Not an equal part, of course,
but an important part. Nonetheless phenomenal is that one of yours.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
That's the only one I wrote down, the only one.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I thought that was great because that's that sums up
his character right there, like, hey, we shall be excited.
I mean, you should be. I am.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
You know what's funny about that is I've heard Matthew
McConaughey talk about This is where he when he reads
a part in the script, he's reading the character they
wanted to play. He says, I look for the law.
I think he calls it a launchpad line. I look
for the one line to where I read from the
character and go, that's who this guy is. I can
write a whole book about this guy because now I

(42:54):
know who he is. To this line of dialogue, he
uses his example of of oh my gosh, what's the
first movie he's in? All right, all right, all right?
Uh d confused?

Speaker 3 (43:04):
He confused.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
He uses the example of dazed and confused when he says,
you know, that's the thing about high school girls. I
keep getting older and they keep staying the same age.
That line he said, when I saw it. When I
read that, I knew who this guy was. When you
read this line from Xander Drax, this is the launch
pad line. History is about to be made. You're all
a part of it. Not an equal part, of course,

(43:28):
but an important part. Nevertheless, it's just beautiful. So I
like that. I like unbelievable. I like when Diana Palmer
meets Devil, which is the name of the Phantom's wolf,
and she says, your dog's a wolf.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
This is just a stupid line, but I love it.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
That's Christy Swatson's We're gonna.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Talk about Christi Swanson. All right, there's the there's the
mob scene we were talking about earlier. They're all sitting
at the table and Ray is the name of the gangster,
and he says, hey, the only power I believe comes
out of the barrel of a gun, not from some
jungle souvenirs. Another great line, but my favorite one, because

(44:15):
it's so ridiculous, is the Phantom says it. And throughout
the movie there's a lot of times where they say
there's an old jungle saying, there's an old jungle saying,
there's an old jungle saying old jungle saying says And
the worst old jungle saying is this. The Phantom goes,
there's an old jungle saying, never point a gun at

(44:36):
someone because it might go off.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
I'm like, that's an old jungle say they say that,
They say.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
That there sure, yeah time.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Because they just might go on. Okay, all right, so yours,
yours is the.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's the yeah you nailed it, so but that's interesting.
Of course it came from tracks.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah, he's so good.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
In this movie, I would watch spin off of Dracks.
I what like the Joaqum Phoenix version of Joker the
first one? Uh for Drax, I want to know where
he came from and why, because there's I mean, they
could have. Do you think they were really counting on
sequels to like?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
It doesn't seem like it because they kill off Drax
at the end and they kill off Caby, saying, so like,
your two big bads are both dead, like you know
in the Dark Night, they knew we're coming back for
the next one, So let's not kill the Joker, even
though obviously they did end up using him because he
led your tragic passing. But you never want to kill
the bad guy all outright if you don't think you're

(45:37):
coming back, because like us, you're Star Wars unless you're
Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
But also I think if Tim Burton knew he was doing.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
A second Batman, because I don't think that anyone knew
that they were going to do another Batman, right. If
he knew, I don't think you would have killed Jack Nichols, right,
even though that's a good ending for Jack.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
They did intend to have, wasn't Billy's saying contracted for
three Phantom movies. What they planned. Everybody plans a trilogy,
but I think.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
I think most likely I don't know that, but I'm
sure it's true.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, and then that didn't pan out. But the other
thing I wanted to talk about real quick I just
thought of it was going back to the We keep
talking about how there's not a lot of backstory, but
the movie not only opens with thirty seconds of exposition,
but the real story, the backstory of the Phantom and
how he carries on. It's his family that carries on

(46:35):
for years and years. He doesn't even go into that
story till ten minutes before the movie's over. Like this
movie even waits to tell you the history of why
he is who he is, like you get the whole movie,
and then he tells it to his lady. And even
that's kind of just like, oh, this is this is
what happens. Everyone thinks I'm alive. And my pal over
there that keeps calling me the ghost who walks that
he knows, he knows, but we just we just kind

(46:58):
of all do I think, like even this movie just
they're so loose with the with the the why. It's
just kind of should we say something. Should we explain
the backstory? Do it at the end real quick? Poor
people leave?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, we just get you know, come on now.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
But that's but that's it too. When you by that time,
you're like, Okay, that's funny that now they're doing it. Yeah,
I expected to ever hear it.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I actually I actually liked the I like that little
what would you call it. It's not a graveyard, but
it's like a symptom. It's not a cemetery or mausoleum,
I don't know what you call that where it has
all the phantoms little headstones on the wall.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, it's a little tribute homage which to a tribute.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
And I like how it's like, hey, this is the
tenth Phantom, this was the you know, twelfth Phantom, and
of course kit is the twenty first Phantom.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
And I want to get into like a little plot
hole about that in a second.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
But it's like Kitchen where they at the end of
Health Kitchen they have the pictures of the all the
different chefs, then they burn up when they get eliminated.
That's what it is. It's the it's the Hell's Kitchen
wall of former phantoms, and.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
We're going to get into a few more plot details
here in a second, because I have some questions before you,
and then before we get into interview with Simon Winston.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Questions for me.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
I do have questions for you.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
So let's go best shot fired the most visually stunning
moment or scene from the movie.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
I like, well, you go first. I'll let you go first.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Anything with the with the practical effects was good, which
is most of this movie. I think when they started
having lasers towards the end, it kind of looked cheesy.
So I'll go back to that scene with the with
the airplane of the horse, because that was my favorite scene.
I think everything about that visually I bought it. I
couldn't you couldn't see like the lines of blue screen
when the play blew up. It looked real. I think

(48:53):
in the scene with the with the truck on the
rickety bridge, you can kind of tell when it was
a model at some point, but that's kind of part
of it as well. But this I think that sequence
and everything from start to finish just looks good.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
For me.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
My favorite singular shot of the movie is towards the
beginning of the film, when he's chasing down the the
You know, grave robbers or whatever you want to call them,
the saying brotherhood drags people. Where we see his we
see the phantom's eyes, right, we see his belt and

(49:28):
like you know, very batman as.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Physical close ups of him putting himself together Rambo three.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
But the shot that I love is where he's on
the horse, devil is wolf dog is next to him,
and like it's we finally see the full phantom and
he's on the white horse, galloping like over like a
I think a tree trunk or something, and the dogs
right next to him.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
It's almost a little slow motion and you're like, here's
the guy.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
He's got a white horse, white wolf, and he's dressed
in purple. You know, the purple's never explained either other
than that's what he was in the comics. But yeah,
it's because it's an interesting choice because like you would
think if you're like a phantom, like a phantom is
like a ghostly figure.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Who you never know where he is.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It's the ghost who walks, which is, by the way,
the Ghost who Walks is such a badass nickname. You're
the ghost who walks, really cool, But you would think
if you're the phantom and you're in a jungle, you'd
be like a green guy, right, you.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Would think that, and you would think that he would
move around at night. But the opening scene is just
broad daylight in the middle of the woods, and that
purple pops, purple pops watch your microphone on that one
purple pops the Yeah, he can't hide to the jungle.
He's he stands down. He's a big old plum He's.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
A big old plum man. Now, before we get to
our plot, holes, rewind that a moment you'd replay over
and over and over again. Do you have a particular
one from this movie or not one that you would
replay over and over.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I don't know if there's parts that I would replay
to go why So it's not like a complimentary rewind.
It's like when Catherine Zina Jones, who we haven't mentioned yet.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
We're going to get into that.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yes, she turns good. Spoiler for everybody. I guess it's
way too late to stay spoiler this. We're telling you everything.
She is the bad girl who really likes the Phantom.
Really early she's like she's a hoardy bad girl with
her crew full of women, and the second the Phantom
shows up. She just lays a kiss on him and

(51:39):
he's having none of it. So good on you, Phantom.
I kiss but and then she has a change of heart,
and I think I did think about rewinding, like did
I miss Why? But it's at that point I realized, oh,
it's movie. So if anything, Yeah, it's not a compliment
why I would rewind certain things, but it's because I
would think did I miss Why?

Speaker 4 (52:02):
No?

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I did.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
It's fine, yeah, I would say.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I just I love the the I just love the
opening scene of this movie, just from the exposition until
he saves the kid. I just love that little sequence.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
But yeah, let's let's get into.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Plot holes here. The plot hole parade is and there's
a lot of them. There's a lot of them, but
I want to start with Catherine Zada Jones because this
isn't so much a plot hole as a huge like,
huh is Catherine's Ada Jones, who, by the way, also
was in the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yeah, yeah, she was in one of the early episodes.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
So this is before she really blows up and we're
gonna for entrapment and we're going to talk about everybody's
kind of run.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
I want to go through their IMDb run here in
a second.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
But she turns good for the worst like reason ever
is there in the Devil's vortex. They're about to go
see Cawbi saying who's the pirate king? And I love
that sentence I just said. And one of the pirates

(53:12):
like hits on Christy Swanson, and Catherine Zada Jones stands
up for her and says to her, us girls got
to stick together, right, which I guess kind of sort
of a little bit makes some sense because she is
kind of this feminist icon in a way.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Catherine Zaja Jones character sala Is.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
She she you know, has a chip full of women,
and you know, it's very kind of pussy galore. Her
pilots are all women and it's a very womanly focused thing.
But she just says our us girls got to stick
together and that and because Diana Palmer got hit on,
Christie Swanson got hit on, now I'm now, like all
this stuff I've been doing for the whole movie, I'm

(53:54):
out a bunch of male chauvines.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Pigs.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Don't like that, don't like that. So Christy Swatson had
not been attractive, she never would have turned because the pirate,
well the pirate proably would have still hit on her.
But yeah, it's that that's going back to why I
said when when did she get nice? Because I might
have even missed it it was that quick. Yeah. I

(54:17):
don't understand her entire character. I don't understand what purpose
she really has. I don't know if she was even
needed in the movie. I mean, I would never want
Catherin zip Jones to not be in the movie, but
she it doesn't really serve much. I mean, in the end,
she's not in the finale all that much. Jailly pops
up like, hey, let's get I'm you're right, I get

(54:38):
you back to I got yeah, I got the plane,
and you're like, oh yeah her forgot about her? Uh yeah,
not a huge in a movie with underdeveloped characters, She's
right up there.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
She's she's very underdeveloped.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
You don't honestly, there could be a cut of this
movie where she's cut out of it and you wouldn't
miss anything in the movie, honestly.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
And it's funny.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Her name is Sala in the film, which is that
like another Indiana Jones reference.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Oh yeah, well, I don't know if it's a character
from the comic.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Then yeah, I don't know if she's based on.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
The Indiana Jones was named the character after that very.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Very well could be.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
There's there's there's Indiana DNA all through this film. But
but Catherine Zaida, let's let's talk about her a little
bit more for a second, because you could cut her
out of this movie, and I don't think that it
really changes anything that happens in the movie other than
she's the one I guess who kidnaps Christy Swanson's character,
which I love how Christy Swanson when when Sala and
Catherine Zada Jones and her goons bored this plane where

(55:43):
they kidnap Christy Swanson's character. I love how first thing's first,
She's like, I'm looking for Diana Palmer. Where is she?
No one's saying anything. She puts a gun to a
woman's head. Christy Swanson gives herself up. But the thing
that she's most trying to protect is this piece of
paper that just has a symbol written on it, right,

(56:04):
That's the only thing she's really trying to protect it.
She slips it in her boot. Sala likes the boots,
so she takes them off and then finds it. But
I just her size, just just my size.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
She gives her crap about very side felt like about
where she gets her boots.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yeah, she's but she's she is.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Look, it's Katherine Zada Jones. And she is good in
the role that she's given. I'm not saying she's bad.
I like her in the movie. I just don't know
if she's needed. I do love how like she shines
up the Silver Skull with toothpaste and it's like something
just offline. Yeah, and then treats like toothpaste. Really but yeah,
I mean, but it's nineteen This is nineteen ninety six,

(56:45):
Catherine Zada Jones. And may I say, a more beautifully
striking woman. I mean, there's a few and far between
in ninety six Catherine Zada Jones. And this is, by
the way, next to Christy Swanson, who's like nothing to
sneeze at. We're talking Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We're talking,
you know, a very very attractive woman, uh, superficially speaking,

(57:09):
but Catherine Zada Jones is like throwing one hundred and
one mile an hour fastball, and Christy Swanson's got you know,
mid nineties going, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Don't know the phantom. He seems to have chosen Christy
Swanson just because it's like the first woman he's ever met.
But then he also has the option of Canther Zid Jones, and.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
I don't know, doesn't go for it.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
He's not that kind of especially because Cather's Ada Jones
can be turned to the good side so easily that.

Speaker 8 (57:41):
She's she's not bad, she's fine, she fine, she really anything,
she's not she's fine, Okay, doesn't have a lot of
personality other than just she's definitely that.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
The bad gorgeous girl, the bad girl, the bad gorgeous girl.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, another another couple holes. So he kid Walker's the
twenty first Phantom, okay, and this is just kind of
an unanswerable question, but he is the twenty first Phantom.
No daughters, like, No, there's never been a girl born
in the Phantom lineage. We don't have a female phantom ever.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Was maybe in the comic. There's been a female.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Fan in the comic. There has been a female phantom.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, but so far they've had all strapping boys.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
And just one boy. They I think that they just
go boom.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
They won and then that's it.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Well, they're very into pro creating because towards the end,
towards the end, I thought this was hilarious. Uh, when
after he's given the backstory, the phantom is given the
backstory pronounced when he's been given the backstory to her,
she goes, so, when you have a son, he'll take
on the mantle, and he goes yes, and then he

(58:51):
looks at her and it's like it's not like a
romantic look, it's we need to we need to breed.
Right now. I found a woman, and I know how
this works. We need to breathe. And even what his
ghost father, who is he a ghost? Is he in
his head?

Speaker 3 (59:07):
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
He's just kind of he appears his dad, who also
from the math, I think from his they put the
year he was alive and died. And I think I'm
bad at math, but I think he was supposed to
be like fifty, and the actor who plays him is
not fifty. No, unlet's I mean it was a hard
fifty baby. But even says, well, go go get it,

(59:31):
or he says something. His delivery is odd too, like
it basically is like, well, go breed. It's not like
go have a romance. It's like, go have a child
so you could retire.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, the good practical The ghost Dad is interesting. You
know the twentieth Phantom kit Walker I think is his name,
or I don't.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Know, pops in for advice. I guess, yeah, doesn't really
give much good advice.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Patrick McGoohan is his name, by the way, sixty seven
at the time they're filming this movie. But yeah, it
doesn't really ever, really serve too much of a purpose
other than being like the Angel on the shoulder.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
I guess, just like funny of the cab.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
It's funny in the cab and I want to talk
about the cab in a second.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
So you had no daughters in the blood line.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Here's another plot hole, inconsistency when and this is a
great scene. Also, I could have used this as my
rewind that scene to play over and over because Xander
Drax invites this librarian I think, to his office because
they've been reading about these books and I can't remember

(01:00:39):
the exact details, but he brings them into his office
and he's like, Hey, you're not telling anybody what I've
been talking to you about, right, you haven't been saying anything.
He's like, no, no, I haven't. He goes, okay, glad
you cleared that up. Oh, and can you take a
look under this microscope. You know there's something I want
you to I want to get your professional opinion on it.
He's like, oh course, and he says, I can't see anything.

(01:01:03):
And then he's like, oh, just turn the focus knobs.
And when he turns the focus knobs. Whereas I guess
we're to presume because because we see drags playing with
it earlier, that these little razor blades on shoot out
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
It's got little knives that that when you turn it,
knives pop up for the microscope and poke out your eyeballs.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
And so we hear that done, and he screams, but
what we see in the frame is an unfocused microscope.
And then as it focuses, it says liar, right right
when it focuses, how do we know? How does the
professor see it? Say liar? When the knives went through it?

(01:01:43):
So how do we know it? Says a liar? We're
we're seeing it through his eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Yeah, so he's got the drags that set up that
it's gonna say liar, Like he's I guess lying to
whoever he's conned sticking his eyeballs into this thing. But
first of all, you're not gonna be able to see
through it because the knives are in the way. Yes,
so first of all, and then when the knives, I
guess do they come out?

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
When then you can focus up into.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Your eyeballs and then but now you've got knives in
your eyes. So it's mainly for him, I guess, like
his little like I should have it say something yes,
but even then it should say like, I don't know
if it should be liar, it should be like fool
you you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Something got him?

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
You know, like gotcha? Yeah, now you're blind.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
You're blind.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Yeah, now you're blind and you can't see this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Yeah, it's it's a weird. It's a weird thing. And
I don't know, Like if I were turning the focus
ops and I even felt anything like start to poke,
I'd probably stop, Yeah, what is that? What is that?
And he goes full on. He's a little aggressive with
the with the knob turning, and it's a very like
pre jigsaw saw kind of little trap like you could

(01:03:01):
see look into the microscope, but you're gonna be blind exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Do you have any plot holes you want to go over?
I have a couple more, But do you have me?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I gave up on plot holes. It's a lot of them,
for sure, there's a lot, but it became like that's
part of the charm, I guess. And to go back
to what you're talking about, I was thinking more about
what you were saying. What what I would rewind. I would
like to watch the beginning of the movie again because
now that I know I'm on board with the toad,
I'd like to see to watch the very beginning again

(01:03:32):
to appreciate that scene more with the bridge and the
kid and everything, because I don't think before I was going, oh,
I'm gonna have to go on this podcast to go ay,
not good Brad episode one, But luckily it did happen.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
So there's a couple other, like I say, plot holes,
inconsistencies questions that I have. I love at the beginning
of the movie where they're in the cave and they're
getting the gold skull, which is like apparently just the
easiest thing to get, and then the skeleton comes alive,
strangles one of their guys and then he just like
I leave them and take all the gold.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
No, here's gonna miss it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah, so they sneak in for those I haven't seen that,
they sneak into this cave and they're looking for the
skull and the guy who's not Casey uh Sisco? How
do you pronounce his name? Back to the future tie
in right there? Him and Billy's aid both play Biff's thugs. H.
So there's your back back to the future connection. There

(01:04:37):
is a clue connection too, by the way, which we'll
get to I guess. But yeah, then a skeleton comes
to life and chokes out the bad guy and kills them.
But they also don't explain how is that was that real?
Because at first I thought it was he was the guy.
The bad guy was like goofing around. I thought he
was like going up to the skeleton and be like, oh,
he's got me. But no, the skeleton was alive. But

(01:04:59):
that's the time there's ever like magic, right because it's
not really a supernatural. But the other than the skulls,
the skulls out of them. Yeah, but are they guards?
They have skeleton guards to protect them, and if they
are there, they suck. They're not good guards because he
just like he doesn't move, he just happened. The guy
walks into the skeleton basically, and then he doesn't go

(01:05:21):
after the other guys the guard skeleton. So yeah, thank
you for reminding b for totally forgot about the weird
skeleton that comes to life and kills them and they're like, eh,
yeahs the job who came on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
The James Reemore plays a quill in this movie. And yeah,
and here's my here's my other plot hole is how
how hard do you have to punch somebody with a
ring in order to make a perfect scar of a
skull on their face?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
It would have to be like really hot too. I
would think kind of like a Raiders the Lost Stark
where he yes the medallion on tote. Uh yeah that
and for it to be there forever. I don't know,
that's a good point. Yeah, that's a hard I don't

(01:06:19):
even think you get like an indentation on even if
you bite your own arm hard, you'll have teeth barks
in it. That as a kid in class when I
was borned like white my arm and be like hey
John's and then eventually that goes away. But yeah, he
had a skull, and because he got punched by the
phantom while wearing his ring, and then he forever has
the skull imprinted on his skin.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
That's a hard it's a hard skull.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
And then my final, my final plot hole is Cabby
saying at the very end, after treat Williams is trying
to get all three skulls together, the two I have
here and the one you have up there. Cabby sayings like, well,
it's useless without the fourth skull, and then Xander's like,
what do you mean the fourth skull? There is no
fourth skull, And then it finds out we find out

(01:07:04):
that the phantom ring is the fourth skull. But my
question is, how come there's never a mention of that
in the books where they find the information about the
skulls of Tuganda four, there's no talk of it ever.
And then Billy Zane realizes, Oh, I've worn it all
my life for protection, you know, and but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
I didn't know what it was until just now. But
it doesn't look anything like the skulls that you have,
because yours are quite large, and mind is a rig
Why did they make three gold silver jade and then
one portable? It doesn't make much sense, like the one
that you have lost in your very old studio.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Yes, I have it somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Why Yeah, you don't even know you have the fourth
rig And it's who knows where.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
I have the fourth skull somewhere? So that was the
plot hole too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Okay, a few more categories before we get to our interview.
I want to I want to throw this out. So
this is a little segment that I like to call
is this people are calling me it's renoing. It's a
little segment I like to call is this true trivia?
And it's really like who cares if it's true or not?
Because I'm just reading off on IMDb. But there are

(01:08:17):
some interesting things that I did read about this movie
that I wanted to let you know. So the did
you recognize where the Palmer Mansion was?

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Like what real life location that was?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Of course not, I have no idea what that is.
I can't believe you think that I would know that
that was the Playboy mansion.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Yes, it is the Playboy Mansion, the Hugh Heft Playboy Mansion,
which has been in many a film, including Once upon
a Time in Hollywood. And and so was quill I
was going to bring that up too. Yeah, James Reemore
was in that movie in a deleted scene.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
I think a few other things.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
When filming Billy's ain't had a habit of running out
to buy sushi wearing his phantom costume. Really just an
interesting fact in the comics. The Phantom wears two rings,
one on each hand. On his right hand, he wears
the skull ring that is most associated with him. It
is the ring that burns a skull impression into those
who he punches. Ah, there we go. And on his

(01:09:19):
and on his left hand, he wears what he calls
the Seal of the Phantom. The Phantom gives the seal
to those forms he forms close friendships with when he
is then honor bound to help anyone with the seal
when they're in some sort of trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Okay, that's like you with your Gilboar media hats right,
those out two like I have one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
The movie was originally going to be the first of
a trilogy. However, after it bombed at the box office,
it was canceled, So there you go. Several scenes developing
the romance between Kit Walker and Diana Palmer were shot
in Thailand, but director Simon Winster reportedly ditched them because
he wanted to film more. He wanted the film to
be more fast paced.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
What you appreciate the run time, So that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
I do appreciate the run time. But you didn't like
really love the you didn't really love the lack of romance.
And he's just like, oh, I love her because.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Yeah, she's the girl I met. That's yeah, I guess.
But again, it's that kind of movie where it's it's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Fine, yes, I mean, it works, right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
It's just that movie because here you go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Bruce Campbell and Kevin Smith were considered for the role
of the Phantom.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Actor Kevin Smith not not that Kevin Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Yes, that'd be great. Silo Bob is the Phantom.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Is the Phantom.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
At the time of the film's release, nearly all Phantom
comic book comic strip stories have been written by the
character's original queer, Lee Falk. Lee Fulk, like we talked about,
wrote until nineteen ninety nine. The advertising campaign for this
movie was a little bit interesting. It had a got
Milk tie.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
In, which is, oh, that's very nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Very ninety That's what I was going to say, that
very nineteen nineties. Having the having the got Milk campaign
now Here we Go. In two thousand and eight, Paramount
Pictures considered creating a sequel to The Phantom, with Billy Zaying,
Christy Swanson and Catherine Zada Jones returning in the role,
but instead of doing the sequel, a reboot of The

(01:11:28):
Phantom was in the works called The Phantom Legacy. There's
going to be produced and star Sam Worthington for the
main role, which is very two thousand and eight, two
thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Ish, Yeah, he was. They were trying with him for
a long time. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
By twenty fourteen the film plans had fallen through and
they have not made a Phantom sequel.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
There was a made for television Sci Fi Science Fiction
Channel a movie of The Phantom that was released in
twenty fourteen that you can go watch if you want
to see more of the Ghost to There was also
a series of serials that are available on YouTube from
the early twentieth century that you can watch if you
want more of the Ghost who walks We're coming here to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
I'll tell you this real quick. Be careful if you
search for The Phantom of twenty twenty one, because there
is a documentary called The Phantom, but it This documentary
follows Carlos de Luna, who was arrested in nineteen eighty
three for the murder of a woman and protested his
innocence until he was executed, stating that another Carlos had

(01:12:37):
committed the crime. So that is a documentary called The Phantom.
Do not accidentally watch that, oh hit for the nineteen
ninety six The Phantom and I alluded to just real
quick trivia, there is a tie in to Clue, which,
just in case anybody from Clue the Movie podcast followed
us to this podcast. The director who were about to
listen to, Simon Winzer, directed a movie ten eighty five

(01:13:00):
called Darryl, which came out before Clue but starred Michael
McKeon and Colleen Camp.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
There is your tie in. There is a tie into
Back to the Future Casey's and then there's your tie
into Clue.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Our world's collide, our worlds collide again.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Now here's a couple things, and then we'll get to
our interview and then final thoughts. Quick question, I'm gonna
ask you this for every movie we watch. This movie
better with Jack Nicholson.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Yes, what role? Uh he'd be a good dras even
though treat did great. But can you imagine him saying
unbelievable at the end. Although I don't think he would have,
he would have played it totally different.

Speaker 5 (01:13:47):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
He could have played his dad, lay, oh, I like Jack,
is his dad interested? Yeah? Or he could have played uh,
that's it. I think, yeah, okay, not the phantom all.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Right, and then we're gonna go to this. I call
this the timeline slash peak of their powers? Is this
the peak from Billy's a?

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
No, Titanic is his peak?

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
I think Titanic is his peak too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
He's good. You hated him at that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Yeah, you did not enjoy it. I mean, look at
his timeline. So his first role ever is in Back
to the Future. Not a bad run there, and then
he's in Have.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
You seen his audition video for you? Because he auditioned
for Party of course, of course you have who am
I talking to?

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
He was in Back to the Future too, playing match again,
but like, let me let me roll through kind of
around this era. So he did Poetic Justice, where he
plays a man named Brad. He did Tombstone. Tombstone's cool.
Not a lot of ones that you know, then he
did a Tales from the Crypt Demon Night. Then he
did The Phantom, Danger Zone, Titanic, Pocahontas two, which is

(01:15:05):
a voice roll, Zulander and kind of a bunch of
stuff that you haven't heard of ever since. A lot
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Very Plander, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
He played himself, Yes, and he's in Zuelander two obviously
the sequel, and then he's actually playing Marlon Brando coming
up in a movie called Walton with Brando, so that
should be interesting. But I think peak of his powers, yeah,
is Titanic. That's the biggest that he gets.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Christy Swanson, Uh sure, because she kind of banished too.
What was she in a movie with Charlie sheeed The Chase.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
The Chase.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
I believe you're correct, Yes, she was in the Chase.
She is so but here's her run. Here's what I
think her best run was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, then
The Chase, then The Phantom, and then she was in
Big Daddy. Big Daddy might have been peak of her powers.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Uh oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
Adam Sandler ninety nine. It's about as big as it gets.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
She's also in the television show psych in a recurring role.
That I like her in Okays is great, but yeah,
I mean, and I gotta be honest with you. Like
Peak of Her Power, she was a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous
woman in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
She has a very great scene at Faris Peler's day off.
He's the one that says my best friend's sisters brothers.
The guy who's going with the kid? Who nice girl?
Who did that? First pastatic three one flavors last Night.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Peak, Peak of Her Powers timeline for Crathroom's Ada Jones
obviously not not Peak of Her Powers.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Not this.

Speaker 9 (01:16:39):
No, I would say, oh, you know, she's good at Zoro,
she's good, and uh uh not Ocean's twelve because.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
That was terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
I think Chicago, right, isn't Chicago.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
People or Chicago? Yeah, you're right, you're right. I forgot
about Chicago. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
But listen, listen to this. I'm just gonna go for
like a I'm gonna go for a little under ten
year run.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
Okay, for her.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
It goes the phantom, high fidelity, the Phantom, the Mask
of Zoro, entrapment, the haunting, high fidelity traffic, America, Sweetheart, Chicago,
Intolerable Cruelty, which is not a good movie. The Terminal,
which I don't really love.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Ocean's twelve. You like the Terminal?

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
I did?

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Okay, Ocean's Twelve. Then the Legend of Zorro. That's a
pretty good run. Yeah, pretty good run for Catherine Zaida. Okay,
a couple more peak of their powers for Treat Williams.
This I think this is his top right. Yeah, he
never had another really huge film role after this. I

(01:17:47):
did love him this Say What TV. He did a
lot of television. But here's the thing I love about this.
In nineteen ninety six he did The Phantom and he
played Michael Ovitz in the Late Shift, the HBO lay Shift.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Yeah, Chip is great.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
But when you look at his run here it's the Phantom.
Then he did The Devil's Own. I've never seen that
deep Rising. I've never seen that the substitute two schools out,
never seen that the deep end of the Ocean, never
seen that the substitute three, critical mask, the substitute failure
is not an option?

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
What is up with the substitute?

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Ironically miscongeniality two armed in Fabulous What Happens in Vegas?
So he had a couple of rom coms there that
came up, and then I don't know anything else that
he was in after that, So I think this might
be peak of his powers, peak of his Okay, a
couple more. We haven't talked about this guy yet. John Tenny,

(01:18:49):
John Tinny, who plays Jimmy Wells in the movie who's
kind of the annoying guy who's hitting on Christy Swanson's
character the whole time, also better known as mister Terry
Hatcher for about a decade. Is this John Tinney peak
of his powers? I don't know if you're a big
John John Denny guy I am.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
I'm afraid you'd have to give me some other credits.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Okay, check this out. Here's his run Tombstone, Beverly Hills,
Cop three, Lassie Free, Willie two Nixon, The Phantom Fools
Rush in which is the one with Salamahayiak and Matthew Perry.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Sure, I love that movie.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
And then after that nothing I've ever seen. Sole's Fools Rush.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
I'll say, I guess that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
And you know what, he plays a man named Jeff
go Figure.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Oh, he's the Yeah, he's the funny friend of Matthew Perry.
Matthew Perry that's his peak.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
Sure, okay. Three more.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
John Koppade. John Coppadie plays al the Cabby in this movie,
which I want to also say, we need to say
the John Cappadice Award. Every every uh movie is like
the best that guy because he's in a lot of
let me give you his run here, Wall Street, Family Business,

(01:20:12):
Internal Affairs, Grimlins two Seinfeld episode The Revenge, she plays
the laundromat.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Yes, that's what I was trying to think of.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
Yeah, yeah, And then he's in as Venture.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
Does he had a cigar in that? Because I pictured
up with a cigar while watching Cramer.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
I think he's got a cigar. But he's also an
as Venture, a pet Detective, Naked Gun thirty three and
a third. He's in Speed and then Independence Day, Enemy
of the State, and then that's kind of his run.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
CSA. He was in, Oh he just passed away last week.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
He passed away last week, So rest in peace to
the Cappadie. James Remark, James remar, Is this peak of
his powers? Yes, okay, it's James James Remark. He was
in Once upon a Time in Hollywood. We were just
talking about him.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
Oh quill, Sure, yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
I almost say that his peak of his powers is
he's in forty eight hours. He's the bad guy in
forty eight hours. Oh okay, I kind of think that's bigger.
But look, let's look at his run. Seventy nine. He
was in The Warriors. Then he did forty eight Hours
and eighty two and A Drugstore Cowboy, not a really

(01:21:39):
well known movie. I'm trying to see like the ones
that people know. Miracle on thirty fourth Street, Renaissance Man, Judge, Dread,
The Quest, The Phantom, Mortal Kombat, Annihilation, Psycho, The Remake,
Too Fast, Too Furious, The Girl next Door, Pineapple Express,

(01:22:00):
X Men First Class, Transformers, Dark with the Moon, Django Unchained,
He's working, uh, the Saint speed Kills Once upon a
Time in Hollywood, Oppenheimer Man Megalopolis.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
I don't know. I don't think this is peak of
his powers.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
I think that he's running I think maybe Django and
X Men First Class around the same time. That's a
pretty good run. Pineapple Express, all within a four year period.
It's probably peak of his powers. And then finally, the
director of our film, Simon Windsor, is his peak of
his powers?

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
I don't know, if you're a big Paul Hogan fan,
then no, because he did Lightning Jack and he did
Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles. But also if you're a
big Tom Selleck fan, because he the TV westerns and
yeah with Tom Sellick, so he seems to like the westerns.

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
Mm hm.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
So if you're a fan of the Wes, then I'm
gonna guess those are probably as peaks. But I would
say as far as commercial Free Willie was probably his
peak because I was pretty big.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
Free Willy was a huge movie.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
I had a Michael Jackson something can't top that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
The movie cost twenty million dollars making it made one
hundred and fifty million. It's a huge, huge, huge movie. Yeah,
so that's peak of his powers. Okay, well, you know what,
before I hear if you would recommend this movie and
watch it again, Jeff, We're actually gonna go to Simon

(01:23:36):
Windsor with some words about his career and the making
of nineteen ninety six Is the Phantom? Here he is,
So the film that I also have to ask about
is nineteen ninety six Is the Phantom. Now this movie
has garnered and I'm not sure if you're aware of this,
but it's garnered one of the bigger cult followings of

(01:23:57):
any film from the nineteen nineties. I think there are
more fans the Phantom now than perhaps there ever have been.
This is a movie that comes up constantly in conversations
as just almost a movie that you could put on just.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
To have a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
How did the Phantom and the script in the film,
how did it enter your orbit?

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
Where did this start for you? With this movie?

Speaker 4 (01:24:19):
Again, I was literally finishing a film I'd done for
Disney called Operation Dumbo Drop, and I got a call
one evening on the eve of a trip to London
to record the score with the composer David Newman for
Operation Dumbo Drops. And it was Sherry Lansing, who was

(01:24:40):
head of Paramatt, and John Goldwyn, who was head of
their motion Picture division, and they said, look, we have
a film called The Saint with the Val Kilma that
Phil Noye is going to do, but it's fallen through
because of Vale's availability. We need something to fill in
its slot, which is early June next year. And this

(01:25:02):
was Caddles would have been September or October. We need
it by June. It's a film called The Phantom. Do
you know anything about Fantom? I said, well, yeah, I
grew up with the comic. It was very popular in Australia.
And they said could you and I said, look, I'm
going to London tomorrow. They said, as they said, can
you come to the studio on your way to the
airport and have a meeting And I said sure yes.

(01:25:25):
So literally the high car stops at Paramount on the
way to Lax and I go and meet with sharing
It and John and they said, we'd like to offer
you the film. Here's the script, you know, we hope
you like it and you'll take it on. And so
I read it on the plane game to London and
it was written by a wonderful writer called it Jeffrey Bohuam.

(01:25:45):
And Jeffrey had written the third Indiana Jones movie, one
of my favorites, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which
was the one with Sean Connery, which was.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Absolutely the best of all five of them in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
Absolutely, and so so it had a very good pedigree,
and I think they've tried to get it off the
ground once before, but for one reason and another it
didn't happen, and so, you know, I read the script
obviously and said, yeah, I'd love to do it, and
came back and literally dived into it. And look, I

(01:26:22):
was surrounded by a wonderful group of people from production
designer Paul Peters and my partner then and now my wife, Liz,
was the art director, and you know, we shot in
Los Angeles, and we shot in Thailand, and we shot
studio scenes in Australia because the US dollar was strong

(01:26:45):
in Australia and we could get a lot on the
screen for a lot less money. And so that's sort
of how it came about. And it's a beautiful looking film,
and you know, just richlyations, beautiful production design, you know,
New York in the thirties and all that kind of stuff.

(01:27:06):
It's just it was fun to do for everybody. The
only person that was attached when I was off the
film was Billy's aim was already attached to it, and
we had a great relationship and we worked together, you know,
going through the script scene by scene, and I convinced
Paramount that the best way to make this movie would

(01:27:29):
be to shoot the exterior American scenes in Los Angeles,
and we did a lot on the Universal backlot, built
this huge New York street and then use some wonderful
deco interiors as well. And then we'd shoot all the

(01:27:52):
phantom stuff in Thailand, which I'd just done dumbow Drop
and we'd loved it there, and a great jungle and
good cruise and all that sort of stuff, And then
we could do the studio scenes much more economically by
shooting them in Warner Road Show studios in Australia, which
which we did. And and yeah, it was it was

(01:28:13):
a challenging shoot because it was a very big movie,
but you know, I was surrounded by great people and
everyone delivered in a big way. Particularly the art department
did a spectacular job.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
It is such a fun like you said, it's a
fun movie, but it's a really awesome movie to look at,
just like you said, New York in the thirties in
the in the film, it's the Bengala jungle, but the
jungles of Thailand, and then even go even even in
the towards the end of the film when they go
to the Devil's Vortex and they're in the cave with

(01:28:44):
all the pirate imagery, cam I saying, is there just
everything looked very, very comic y as it was supposed
to I'm assuming, but also just full of color and
life in almost every frame of that movie.

Speaker 4 (01:28:58):
Yeah, yeah, Look, I had wonderful cinematographer called David Burr,
who's an Australian cameraman, and I'd never worked with David before,
but none of my regular guys were available. And David
had done one very small feature, it was a film
called Race the Sun, but his commercial real was spectacular

(01:29:21):
and I had to convince Paramount that he was the guy.
But I had a wonderful producer in Alan Ladd Junior,
who had used to run mGy and when I'd done
Quigley and Harley, Davidson there and so eventually we got
the green light for David Burr, and he did a
beautiful job, you know, shooting it with a great crew

(01:29:44):
and various people that I'd worked with before, but never David,
and he did. He did a wonderful job. And Paul
Peters the production designer, and then Liz, my wife, she
was his arturc and she did the Australian sections and
called in Thailand and Los Angeles and but they're a

(01:30:05):
great team. And because We had huge sets, but they
were all fun to do, and you know, we sort
of played the film, I guess with a twinkle in
the eye if you like, you know, because that was
the sort of comic book feeling that I wanted.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
To capture and you did.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Now, you said you were familiar with the comic series,
as you're a fan of it. How when you take
on a project like this that has this pre existing mythology,
and the Phantom has been around since before the Superman
was even around. It's pre date Superman. It's really one
of the first superheroes. So you have decades and decades

(01:30:43):
and decades of source material to go off of. How
much pressure do you feel to do justice to the
mythology but also know I need to execute the movie
that I want to make.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
Yeah, I suppose that's a bit of both. I got
to know leeve you know, who was the creator of
The Phantom, and obviously he used to illustrate it, and
he was still around then. Lovely Lovely Man lived in
New York, and because I've grown up with the comic
it was very close to me. It was a very
popular comic book in Australia, very popular in the you

(01:31:18):
know the fifties particularly, and it's still a strip in
some of the newspapers in Australia now, whereas it was
never that big in America. I don't think, you know.
But and how the film begins, I think it begins
with a super for those that came in late, which

(01:31:39):
is how the comic used to start, so you could
pick up the story. And then I told briefly you
know the history if you like, the of the Phantom,
just in a very brief montage at the beginning of
the film. But yeah, I felt we had to honor
the character and it was up to me and my

(01:32:00):
team to deliver it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
When it comes to casting, Christy Swanson obviously Treat Williams,
Catherine's Ada Jones, who hadn't had the career that she
would go on to have at the time, this early
on in her career, all phenomenal. But I really feel
like Treat Williams brought the Xander Tracks character off the
page and beyond. He felt like the quintessential comic villain.

Speaker 4 (01:32:25):
Absolutely, he was wonderful. We modeled his look on Howd
Hughes that sort of. He looked great. He looked great
in the wardrobe he really took the part on with
Relish and he became a wonderfully good friend. I was
absolutely devastated when he was killed last year in a

(01:32:45):
motorbike accident, just because he stayed with us in Australia
and we got to know his wife and family and
a wonderful guy, and that sort of resurrected his career,
I think. But he was I thought he was fantastic.
A story about Catherine, I just worked with her on
an episode of Young Indiana Jones where she and another

(01:33:08):
unknown actor called Daniel Craig was starring in this episode, ironically,
we shot it in Turkey. It was about the Australian
light Horse and the charge at Viasheba, which I addressed
in The Light Horseman. And Katherine I really hit it off.
She was great, lovely lady, very modest and you know, boy,

(01:33:28):
when we actually screen tested both Christie on film at
Paramount and Christy and Catherine, and I remember sitting at
the at the screening of these tests for Sherry Lansing
and and Laddie and everybody, and Sherry just said, this

(01:33:51):
girl is going to be a star. She's a star.
And that was talking about Catherine in her she.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Saw it then she had a certain quality about her
that just I mean she jumps off the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
Obviously, absolutely, I have to ask.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
So when it comes to production design on The Phantom,
we talked a lot about the exteriors and how the
scenes looked, but some of the whether it be the
props I guess is the word for them on the
film was so iconic, including the skulls of tou Ganda,
the one of silver, the one of gold, the one
of jade. Were those the ones that we saw on

(01:34:25):
screen were that? Was that the first run of them?
Did you see them? You know, come off out of
the proper Property Manager's Department and go these are it?

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
They were?

Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
They were created again designed by Paul Peter's a wonderful
production designer at the department. Did a great job. And
one of my favorite sets is Trey Williams, Officer Xander
Drex's office in New York. It's a beautiful out deco set,
you know, absolutely stunning, you know, and you know every

(01:34:54):
detail of Scons's and the little micros, deadly microsc on
the desk where the guy has to look in and
you know he gets.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
His side, you know, and then the screen goes from
fuzzy to clear, just saying liar and for me to
and I'm not joking with you. When I get into
debates with people about the great comic villains brought to
the cinematic scream, I feel like Xander Drax should be
discussed more, just for even for that particular scene alone.

(01:35:28):
And then even there's a small moment and I wanted
to ask you this as a director, if this was
an improv or if this was in the script from
Treat Williams.

Speaker 3 (01:35:36):
There's the scene where they're in the boardroom.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
I think he's going over the plan with the brotherhood
and one of the gentlemen says he doesn't want to
do it, and he lets him leave and then throws
the spear in his back. When he goes to take
the spear out of his back, he notices that he's
now chipped his wall a little bit and does this
little motion with his hand.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
Was that it was? That was that was Treat?

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
It was so but it was an improv, but it
felt so like what the character would do. This is
a man who also evil, but is very much about
appearance and about the finer things in life, and the
fact that he would be upset that he just killed somebody,
but he chipped his wall.

Speaker 4 (01:36:15):
I mean, yeah, yeah, Treat was you know, it looked
grave in all the outfits, the wardrobe, everything he relished
and most factors relish apart like that. But he hadn't
to nail it. I just I just was going through
some old stuff the other day and there was a

(01:36:36):
picture of him and it just looked so fantastic in
that role, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
So it's actually funny. I tell people this story too.
I was born in the early nineties and Treat Williams
was actually a big actor at the time in the nineties,
as you mentioned, and that was going to be my
original name. My mother was going to name me Treat. Yeah,
after Treat Williams. And so now every time I've seen
a movie which Williams, I feel like there's a certain

(01:37:01):
kinship I have to him because of that.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
I'll tell you a funny story about Trip. We were
doing a TV movie for Showtime in and we were
shooting in Israel. It was a true story about an
American businessman who got caught in Saudi Arabia and flew
himself out in a box. But playing opposite Treat was
an American actor called Stephen Lamb, who many people will know,

(01:37:29):
of course because he was the Baddie and Avatar, a
wonderful actor and a wonderful guy. And our very first
days filming, we were filming supposedly on an oil ry,
but it was actually a gas rig, which looks exactly
the same, you know, And we're in Tel Aviv and
you know where this bloody thing was. It was literally
on the border of Gaza. The guy said, don't worry
about that, you know, and this is what to do
if something happens. So anyway, Stephen comes out of the

(01:37:53):
trailers in overalls and he's got a scarf and a
hard hat. And looked at him and said, Stephen, you
look like one of the village people.

Speaker 3 (01:38:06):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:38:07):
That must have been an interesting shoot to be there
in Tel Aviv coast to the border.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
It actually wasn't. There was another scene where we're right
up on the Lebanese border in a town called Arco,
which is, I suppose, a more Arab town, and Treat's
filming a scene in the reception of this little hotel
where he's just arrived and he's we're actually rolling he's
on the phone and suddenly there's an enormous explosion outside,

(01:38:34):
and he looks, should I stop?

Speaker 3 (01:38:36):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:38:38):
We go outside, and what you see is the iron
you know, the iron dome at works. Somebody had fired
a rocket and the iron doom that destroyed it. At
terrifying part of the world, and that was that would
have been nineteen eighty six or eighty seven or something
like that. And still it's still going on. It's so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
Yeah, the more things change, more they say the same,
very sad situation for everybody over there in that part
of the world, just you know.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
Awful and a beautiful part of the world.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
My wife's Lebanese and and you know, I see pictures
of Lebanon and how beautiful it is, and how beautiful
Israel is, and how beautiful just parts of the Middle
East in general are, and and it's just a shame,
you know, that that's still going on now, back to how.

Speaker 4 (01:39:18):
Many hundreds of ye, yes, hundreds of years.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
Silly I would I would hope that people, you know,
cooler heads would prevail in such a situation. But but
to go to go back to the phantom real quickly,
so Billy Zane was already attached. But you had to
be very thrilled with Billy Zane being attached because to me,
you know, I know, he worked out all year to
get ready for it and to be in the perfect shape.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
I mean, a very handsome man. He kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:39:46):
Jumps off the screen as a prototypical superhero. And I
felt like he delivered all of his line deliveries were
done with this almost modesty and humility about him that
almost made the character. In Hearing of the Phantom, and
I thought, I thought he just did such a wonderful job.

Speaker 4 (01:40:04):
Yeah, No, No, Billy, Billy was great. I think what
he had to capture was the fact that you know,
he had been this character, had you know, been college
educated and grown up and you know, the right way
in the US and all that, and then takes over
the mantle from his late father, and you know, so
so it goes on. No, No, Billy was great. He's

(01:40:26):
got a good voice. It looks great, as you say, physically,
and and you know he was. Billy was great. He
used to drive us crazy occasionally because you know, I
would say to my sister director Bob, where's Billy. It's
just pumping up. It's just pumping out getting in it,

(01:40:46):
and you pumped up, Billy. Yeah, come on, it work
out right up until the camera's roll.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:40:54):
In fact, Patrick McGowan, who played Had he used to
roll his eye. It's a bit, but he was a
wonderful actor. And and and I know him from a
TV series when I was a kid called Prisoner, which
he created and directed many and started. It was great.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
There's a few things that I wanted to ask you
before we wrap it again, Thank you so much for
your time. Regarding the Phantom, was it true that the
the Palmer household that we see the the know the
uncle who is the head of the newspaper in the movie,
a Dave Palmer.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30):
Uncle Dave? Is that the Playboy Mansion?

Speaker 4 (01:41:33):
It is indeed. Okay, so that was literally our first
week of shooting. And in fact, I've got a photo of
me and Hugh Hefner and Christy Swanson chatting outside the
Playboy mans And so yeah, it was Playboy Mansion because
it needed to have that sort of Hampton sort of look,
and and and it is very conveniently located in the

(01:41:54):
heart of Beverly Hills. And so when Dinah drives up
in her would he car. That's that's that's the location beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:42:04):
Yeah, I mean it looks great.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
Well, Hugh happened to be a fan of The Fantom.
You know, he remembered the comic very much.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Oh so he probably enjoyed the fact that, you know,
his house.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
Be used in the film.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
Yeah. And then two more things on the Phantom.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
The there was a serial done early on, you know,
a serial version of The Phantom. Did you look at
any of that for any sort of reference or did
you say, you know what that was this project. I'm
looking at the script here and kind of crafting my
own vision.

Speaker 4 (01:42:36):
I didn't even know there was a serial version. I think. Look,
it had to come together so quickly because you know,
we had to fill this slot that it was literally
got back from recording score for a dumbow drop and
the final mixing band just leaped into The Phantom at
one hundred miles an hour and didn't didn't draw breath
until we finished. Basically, you know, I think we finished.

(01:42:59):
The film was delivered only two weeks before it actually
when to the theaters.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
And they don't do things like that anymore, really, where
you have to rush into a production. And you know,
I remember even one of the great movies of all time,
Back to the Future, they didn't finish it by a
certain date. They weren't going to release the movie. I mean,
that's just how they did things back in the day. Now,
when when the movie ended, there's kind of this the

(01:43:27):
end of the movie, you're not sure if Christy Swanson
and Billy Zaye's characters, if they end up together or not.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
It's kind of left open ended.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
A lot of fans of The Phantom have always theorized
that that was meant to leave the door open for
a potential sequel. Was there, ever, at any time prior
to the movie's release, an idea of continuing this story
on or did you see it as a one shot?

Speaker 4 (01:43:49):
No. I think there was an idea of it continuing on,
but obviously it was going to depend on how did
it the box office, and it just didn't didn't do
well sadly. And I remember we had a premiere screening
at the Directors Guild one Sunday morning, so you know,
families could come and everybody was there. You know, Sherry

(01:44:10):
Lansing who is married to Billy Freakin, who was a
favorite director of mine, and and all of Treat and
Christie and Catherine and all the cast, and and and
and all the paramount executives. And the screening went really
well and people loved it and clapping and having a
great time. And Sherry gathered all her executives around afterwards

(01:44:32):
and said, guys, this film opens on Friday. What are
you going to do? No one knows about it. You know,
it's a great movie you got and you know, but
it was sort of too late. But anyway, that's the
way it goes. But I'm certainly very proud of the film.
It's it's it's a beautiful film to look at and
and and love. Really, you know, terrific cast.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
A beautiful film, beautiful cast. Like you said, it should
have It should have been much bigger at the time
than it was. But there's publicity, there's marketing, there's all
kinds of things that go into it. They're out of
the director's hands. But as far as your job, you
you nailed it out. As we say the States, you
hit it out of the park. You know that that
ball hasn't stopped yet. It's still going and going and going,

(01:45:18):
and it's continued to go on. Are you surprised that
it's gained this cult following now over the years because
so many people now discuss this movie more than they
ever have.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
You know, that's it surprised me initially, but it's sort
of kept going, you know, as you know, for for example,
remember Roger Ebitt, the film critic.

Speaker 3 (01:45:42):
Of course, yes, Roper.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
Ciscle and Ciskel and Ebit. Well, uh, Roger Ebert's review
begins with, this is one of the finest Please try again.
It came to some reason. Sorry as that, I'll just
mute her. Roger Ebert's review began with something like, this

(01:46:06):
is one of the finest looking movies I've ever seen.
And he talks about the beautiful cinematography and the colors,
and it was. It was absolutely gorgeous to look at.
You know. One thing David Bird, a cinematographer, and I
decided to do. We would use no apart from normal
daylight filtration. We'd use no trick filters or prewash negatives,

(01:46:28):
all that stuff that people were doing there. We just
wanted to go because the jungle settings were so rich,
the American scenes were so rich, and the sets were
going to be so rich. We just wanted them to
look as they were, you know, without tricking them up
or doing this or doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
You know, technically, what where was the last time you've
seen the movie?

Speaker 4 (01:46:49):
I saw it fairly recently, the reason being in my
home theater. But because as a German film writer at
the moment writing a book about my career, and he's
interviewed me about every one of my movies, so I've
had to revisit them, which has been an interesting experience
because you know, some of the early stuff you look

(01:47:10):
at and you go, oh, did I do that? And
then you go, oh, wow, did I do that? It's
been an interesting experience reviewing the body of my work.
And he's talked about every single project I've ever made,
so it's been fascinating and interesting to revisit them all.

Speaker 2 (01:47:32):
Well, you know, your movies and shows and all the
things you've directed have impacted generations and thousands and thousands,
if not millions and millions of people the world round,
from Australia all the way here in Houston, Texas. And
you know, there's an old jungle saying that you shouldn't
beat your idols. But I'm really happy that we've been

(01:47:53):
able to share this hour with one another. And have
the conversation and Simon, thank you so much for taking
the time. Truly truly enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:48:02):
Yes, thanks bre It's been great fun.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
All right, Jeff, you heard from the man himself. We've
talked a lot about this movie. My final question to you,
would you recommend or watch this movie ever again?

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
Those are two different questions. Yes, I will say I
will answer both of them. I will not choose one.
I would watch it again. I would love to watch
it with you because you were very giddy just talking
about it, so I want to experience it through Brad
Gilmore's passion of The Phantom. Would I recommend it? It

(01:48:36):
would have to be I don't know if I'd recommend it.
It's it would have to a conversation would have to
come with it. I'd have to say, yes, you should
watch The Phantom. Keep in mind, don't be looking for
a movie that explains anything. I think we've kind of
hit home during this entire podcast that don't be looking

(01:48:58):
for why just enjoy it as as it's definitely a
PG movie that helps I didn't know that going in.
And it's a movie that things happen because and if
you're okay with that, then just enjoy and watch kind
of what we were doing in ninety six.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
Is it a movie like is it one of those
movies where you just you could have it on? You
could just have it on and it'd be okay, like
if you're doing other stuff, rather than is it a
have it on movie?

Speaker 1 (01:49:26):
Yes? Yes, because I was really paying close attention to it,
one because we're doing this, but two because I was
like why why and then when I caught on, oh,
you don't have to pay that close attention. Then you
could kind of wander around. But no, I don't think
it's that kind of movie. I think you should sit
in and watch it because there's a lot in the

(01:49:46):
action scenes especially, there's a lot going on and you
might miss something, So I wouldn't say that. I think
it's fun to watch. It's light, it's light. It's a
good It might even be a good like sick day
movie where you're just like.

Speaker 3 (01:49:56):
Eugh, I think it is a good signe feeling well.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
It just popped on and just want to feel better,
or even like you just kind of if you're down.
Escape of the Phantom, because he's fun, he's like nothing
bothers the Phantom.

Speaker 3 (01:50:10):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
Yeah, He's like they, hey, there's a boat full of
women interested, and then he goes on.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
Nobody says no to the Phantom.

Speaker 1 (01:50:20):
Nobody says no to the Phantom. That's what he says
audiences in nineteen ninety six.

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
Yeah, but can I also say Billy Zayn, I will
I'm a little bit shocked his career wasn't. I mean,
he has a good career, you know, a decent career.
I'm surprised it wasn't bigger because, like when you look
at him in this movie, he was so handsome, chiseled charisma.
I'm really surprised he didn't become a bigger deal. People

(01:50:48):
know Billy Zay, But like I mean, I think at
this point people were expecting Clooney Pitt Cruise levels of
of you know, a list celebrity. Didn't happen for him,
for everybody didn't have him for him. But handsome son
of a gun, Handsome son of a gun and I

(01:51:09):
love nineteen nine six is the Phantom.

Speaker 3 (01:51:11):
Jeff, have you selected what your movie's going to be?

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
Yes? So this I was very surprised to hear that
you hadn't seen because this is the movie that I
think you will enjoy. It's the movie that is my
favorite Tim Burton movie. And that is saying a lot
because I do have a poster of Pee Wee's Big
Adventure on my wall here, but that is not the movie.

(01:51:35):
Because I'm sure you've seen that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:37):
This is movie.

Speaker 1 (01:51:38):
It's a little different from what Tim Burton usually did.
This is nineteen ninety four's ed Wood, which you have
not seen. This is good stuff. It is streaming on
Amazon Prime. I do not think for free, So you're
gonna have to show your commitment to the podcast and
maybe have to pay three ninety nine or some or

(01:51:59):
whatever to rend it. But I'm very interested to hear
what you have to say about Edwood. Johnny Depp, Martin Landel,
Bill Murray, Sarah Jiska Parker and why I'm most excited
for you to watch this. George the Animal Steve said.

Speaker 3 (01:52:17):
I can't wait. Eddies Great, We're gonna talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
We're gonna talk about it on the next episode of
Pick six.

Speaker 3 (01:52:25):
This was our inaugural episode. Hit us up at Brad
Gilmour on all the socials. Jeff, where can people find you?

Speaker 1 (01:52:33):
Let's go to Instagram? Jeff Smith, movie

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
Guy Jeff Smith movie Guy on the Instagrams, and we
will be back with our next episode talking about ed
Wood on pick six, pick sex,

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