May 14, 2024 • 58 mins
On this week's episode, Sarah sits down with her mom in a very special Mother's Day Episode! The two chat about growing up in a low-income household, leaving college to work, getting married at 25, and so much more! So call your mom and come be clueless with us! For twentysomething's living in NYC looking for low-cost therapy, Sarah's Mom has provided the following resource: lowcosttherapy.nyc If you are loving CFC, do not forget to rate, review, subscribe, and follow! Follow us on our social media pages! IG: https://www.instagram.com/completelyfuckingclueless/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@completelyfckingclueless Sarah IG/TT: @sarahaliceliddy Audrey IG: @a.j.flowers Audrey TT: audrey.j.flowers Please note this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Speaker 4 (01:00):
You're listening to a fifty eight member production.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to the Completely Fucking Clueless podcast.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm in studio with my mom.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
She's finally here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It's taken a lot of convincing to get my mom here,
As you guys know, I had my dad here around
a year ago to this date, and he was like,
what is my episode? When do I get to be
the star of the show versus my mom? Have had
to you know, get here a bit more, had to
pull a bit because she's a therapist. She has an
(01:41):
amazing story and I'm so excited for you to tell
everybody today, So why don't you tell everyone you're name
and your pronouns?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Sure, my name is Christina and I used she her pronouns.
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
You know what, how I wanted to start this off
was I feel like, you know, Dad is such a talker.
I feel like I know a lot about his journey
as a young person, especially after sitting here and talking
with him, But I don't feel like I know a
lot about your journey. I know, like the you know, milestones,
like where you went to college, your mid twenties, you know,
meeting dad, But I don't know like the nooks and
(02:14):
crannies of your twenties and your young adulthood. So that's
what we're going to get into today. So let's start
off with you went to Georgia State University. Why'd you
decide to go there or is it just like it's
close to home?
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Sure, At when I went to school traditionally at eighteen,
like right after high school, it was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Four, and it sounds like a long time ago.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
And at the time, Georgia State was more like a
commuter college right in the suburbs of Atlanta because they
didn't have housing, So I never had the experience of
living like you did. Yeah, and the boys have living
at college in a dorm room, that whole like kind
of university. So I never had that because it was
more of a commuter school. And honestly, I went there
(03:06):
a because it was close to home, and also being
a first generation student, my parents didn't go to college
and so I didn't have folks that were helping me
navigate getting to college. I also grew up pretty low income,
and so there wasn't the school system didn't have like
(03:27):
the same types of resources that your school had, you know, college,
your advisors helping you, and really the school in the
with college preparation courses with aps and stuff like that,
and how the school, your public high school really is
like was navigating all of you to the majority of you.
(03:48):
I shouldn't say all of you, the majority of you
to get to college, right, And so I really didn't
have that. And I honestly think that I went to
college because all my friends were doing it, and so
I was.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Like, okay, us, this is what you do.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
You know, I didn't have like my parents sharing their
college experiences or stuff like that. However, my mom would
always was really pushing for me to go to college,
but she didn't have the experiences or the resource to
kind of help me navigate how to get there. So
I went to Georgia State A because it was pretty
(04:22):
inexpensive because I had to pay my way through college
and it was close and so that way I could
still work and go to school at the same time.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, when you started school, did you have like a
specific degree or did you just go in like undecided undecided.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
I believe I was mainly studying English and economics, but
I didn't get far enough into like, Okay, I'm specifically
going to Oh, I shouldn't say that I specifically was
thinking of economics at the time, but we can get
to that later. It was more of an influence of
the job that I had had taken at that time.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So you were like, during school, you were working a
job that was somewhere.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Yeah. I never will not at that point when I
first started school, I can't to be honest.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
I had so many jobs in my twenty really.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah wait, that's like Meg Jay she said, by the
time you're thirty five, you'll have like nine jobs.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
Yeah wait, what were all the jobs? I listened to
that podcast and I could really relate to that. Yeah,
I just had whatever jobs I'm trying to remember, Like once,
I was a gift wrapper. That's why you're a good
gift wrapper, why I love wrapping Christmas event? And what
else did I have? I never had like a service
(05:37):
type of job where like like waiter. Yeah, yeah, I
never had a job like that. I was a hostess, once.
I'm trying to I can't even remember so long ago.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Yeah, but because.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
I was supporting myself, I had many different jobs, like
you know, just trying to make it all come together financially.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah. And at that time, I'm like, you kind of
spoke about how you went to school because your friends
were going So was the whole like high school college job?
Was that the same trajectory that you feel a lot
of people in New York like circle were taking, are not? Really?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
Yeah? Yeah, I do think in my immediate friend group.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Yes, that was the trajectory, like everybody was going to
college and then you know, I guess seeking a career afterwards.
Like all of my immediate like immediate close friends went
to college right after high school.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And did a lot of people stay in the area
like you did, or did people kind of go all
over people?
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Kind of of my immediate friend group, everybody stayed in
the South, you know, in the Southeast.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
I grew up in a suburb of Atlanta.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Yeah, and a couple of my good friends at that
time also went to Georgia State at the same time.
I did cool cool, And so I know this The
people don't know that this is that you ended up
leaving school after two years. Correct for a little bit,
A little bit more like I was thinking about that earlier.
I don't remember the exactly how old I was, but
(07:11):
I was definitely in my early twenties.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
I think I completed like my first full two.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Years, okay, and then I had made a feeble attempt
at going back later, like maybe around like twenty four
or so, and for many reasons, it just didn't it
didn't stick. Yeah, and so I would say by the
time basically I ended at twenty one twenty one ish
and then tried try taking a class or two, maybe
(07:38):
around twenty three or twenty four, and then after that
point I never went back until later.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, So why did you end up designing leaving school?
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Yeah, it was I don't know that it was actually
like a decision that I thought out, Okay, I think,
which will probably be hard for you to imagine.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
I think I was more impulsive in my twenties.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, that is really hard to imagine, because I feel
like you wouldn't just make a decision like that nowadays.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
No, No, definitely, No, that's okay, definitely not. I feel
like I was struggling in school.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I wasn't the student that you know me to be.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
My mom went back to school. We'll talk about that later,
but she was like an incredible student, Like she was
up on the graduation stage when you graduated.
Speaker 6 (08:30):
That's crazy to think about it was it felt crazy
being out there, given my trajectory to getting there.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
It was a kind of surreal moment for me. So
it wasn't that I wasn't smart or couldn't.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Be a good student. I just don't think it was
a priority.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Like I think because of my childhood circumstances and experiences,
so much of my way of being in my early twenties,
which I understand now with a lot of therapy and insight,
it was all about survival, right and so, and for me,
(09:08):
surviving was how am I going to pay my rent?
How am I gonna pay my car payment? How am
I going to put food on the table? And so
at some point that became more important to me that part.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I don't know if more important. It just took over.
It was more pervasive, yeah than going to school. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
And then what happened was I guess maybe it was
like twenty one or so. Again, like having like numerous jobs,
and I was working for a temp agency and so
that is like they put you in any job that
comes up that a company needs a job. And so
I had gotten a call to be a receptionist at
(09:46):
First Boston and I did that and then they needed
somebody full time. So I was doing that and it
was great because I was just answering the phone so
I could do some homework in between, yeah stuff. And
then they asked me if I would like to do
it full time and they were offering me salary, healthcare benefits, which,
as you know now, is so important.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't get why every job doesn't have it, Like
when I look on LinkedIn and the job doesn't have it.
It almost like grew it, like you know, you're just
like onto the next because as I talked about with
my therapist, I was like, you know, if I when
you're looking for a job, now you have to think
about certain requirements and health insurance isn't there like it takes.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
A job out.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
Yeah definitely. So yeah, so they were offering me a
full time job. It had a salary. I can't even
remember what it was, but I'm sure it was something
like maybe fourteen fifteen thousand dollars a year, like you know,
which seems crazy now, and but it was you know,
mid eighties, and they were offered me salary, healthcare and
(10:52):
four one k okay, So it just seemed like a
no brainer that I would do that. And then it
just became really difficult to navigate working and going to
school at night. And I was thinking about about that
earlier today, and it felt very.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Overwhelming to me at the time.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
But the reality is so many people work numerous jobs
and go to school at the same time and they're
able to get their degree done and I didn't. And
I think at the time I just was tired of
the struggle, tired of being overwhelmed all the time, yea,
and decided to just work. And so in that at
(11:34):
my job at first Boston, another job came available that
was in their operations department.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
So then I got like.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Hr, No, it was more you know, it was an
investment firm, so it was more operations in like clearing
the trades, in putting the trades.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Doing stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
So and so that was yet you know, another promotion,
so a little bit more money and so.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
And I think, you know, I don't I thought about
it at the time.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
But I was like, Okay, I'm just going to do this,
Like you know, that career kind of just fell on
fell on to me. It wasn't something that I ever
chose or like thought about, Oh when I grow up,
I want to do this in finance, you know. So
it just kind of happened, and I was there and
I think I've always had a really great work ethic,
and I thought, Okay, well, this is just what I'm
(12:22):
going to do. And so I slowly was working my
way up, and eventually I worked my way up to
being a sales assistant and getting license, you know, taking
my Series seven and you know, and that led to
a bigger income. And so then I was like, yeah,
this is just what I'm going to do. But it's
(12:42):
wasn't necessarily not that it was the wrong decision, but
it would come back. Not graduating from college would come
back to haunt me.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Was it all this happening in Georgia or had you
moved to New York at that point?
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Yeah, all this was happening in Georgia. I moved, as
you know, I got married at twenty five the first time. Yeah,
and the person that I was married to at that
time was working in Philadelphia. So after we got married,
we moved to southern New Jersey, like kind of on
that Philly New Jersey border, and we lived there for
(13:15):
a bit, and then I started working in New York.
I was working at first Boston in New York at
that time, but we'd go on to I moved around
a lot in my twenties, So that was another thing
that I happened in my twenties.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I moved a lot. Where are all the places that
you lived?
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I lived in, as I said, just right outside of Philly,
and then I lived in Chicago.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Did you live in Chicago? In gosh, Sarah, I wish
I remember.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
I remember the timeline. I was still married to my
first husband, and yeah, so I was. I don't know,
I might have been like twenty six or so, okay, silly,
I know it was very quick, like when all that happened,
I was like in Philly and then I and I
worked in New York and then I'm moved to Chicago
and then and then I moved to New York after Chicago, Okay,
and that's kind of where I land and that's where
(14:05):
I landed, okay, And when I moved back to New York.
Was when I I might have been I don't know,
twenty twenty eight, I'm not sure, Okay, and when I
got my job at Morgan Stanley.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Okay, okay, cool, cool, Wow, that is a lot of moving.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I mean I think about like Katie, who you know,
lived in Saint Louis, went to school in North Carolina
and now lives in Dallas. And most of my friends
have stayed, you know, we've all stayed in New York.
But I think it's it sounds cool but also really
intimidating to move somewhere where you don't know people in
your twenties.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know that I thought about any
of that.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, it seems like you were just like, yeah, Bible mode.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Yeah, I don't I definitely, I don't know that I
thought about the same things that twenty somethings nowadays think about.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
I think I was just in it and I'm going
to survive it. Yeah, and I'm going to go where
things take me. So I was more letting life happen
to me instead of being in charge of my life.
Right when I look back on it, and yeah, and
that's just you know kind of how it went. And
all of that comes from my from my childhood right
(15:21):
in the way that I learned how to navigate the world.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, I mean I think it's interesting from you know,
doing this with Dad and you now, I feel like
both of your early twenty somethings journeys were very influenced
by like money and survival about like what will pay
the best. Like Dad was sort of saying, how you know,
like he knew a guy who knew a and like
(15:45):
that's how he ended up doing what he did because
it was like a money thing, not because it was
like this is what I really wanted to do with
my life, Like this is just like what I think
I'm expected to do and what will get me like
the best thing. And I mean I feel that a
little bit. As a twenty something, I do think more
of my job and career is navigated by like my
(16:05):
dreams and my passions. But I think sense, like especially
going into a more I mean honestly, since graduating, I
have felt more of the monetary pressure of like you know,
like you're growing up and you want to be financially
independent and you want to be able to pay for
the nice things, but like it's really really hard to
(16:25):
do that, sure, especially at the entry level.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So I think I feel it with Liz. I think
both of us feel like we're floundering a little bit
and that it's and it's hard because we're like, how
do we, you know, pay for everything, live a fun life,
show up to work. It can be very displacing and overwhelming.
When you said the part about feeling overwhelmed, I feel
(16:50):
that sometimes too. Sure, I think all the different things
that you're navigating in your twenties can be very overwhelming.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
Absolutely, I think I definitely felt overwhelmed all of my twenties.
I just don't know that I could name it right.
But there's your generation has grown up so much with
naming your emotion. Sure, you know what anxiety is, you
know what depression is, yes, and all of these things.
I didn't know what any of that was growing up
(17:19):
or in my twenties. Now, when I look back, I
was a very anxious person. I just didn't know what
to call it, yeah, or even what to call the overwhelm.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
And so I think when I.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Dropped out of school, it was from this place of
overwhelm and a place of.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Almost being tired of fighting so much and trying.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
To survive, and also being very shortsighted, like, yes, I
was in this job and it was and it was
a good job, and it helped me survive and paid
my bills and gave me health insurance and all these
unforem one k all these other things. But I just
I was so tired, like I was just tired and so,
(18:09):
which isn't like a great reason for dropping out. And
it was also very short sighted because I was looking
very much I've lost my train of thought there. I
was very focused on like the here and the now
and what do I need this month this week. I
wasn't focused so much on where am I going to
be five years from now, ten years from now, and
is dropping out of college and not having that college degree?
(18:29):
How's that going to impact me in this industry that
I decided was going to be where I worked and
had my career and it would come back to really
impact me.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So you feel like not having the degree impacted your career.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Oh, it absolutely did. Yeah, it absolutely did.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
I was fortunate enough along the way, both when I
worked at First Boston and at Morgan Stanley to have
really great mentors that helped me along the way and
also advocated for me. But there was a time when
I got to a level and and people were advocating
for me to be promoted, and they just said it
(19:07):
wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Because of a college degree.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, and so yeah, and that's when that's when I
really started to feel, you know, the impacts of that decision,
right that I had made, you know, years before, on
an impulse actually and not really thought about how it
was going to impact me.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Later, right, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
And that led to a lot of and also in
my twenties, which I know is something again didn't know
what to call it back then, but know what to
call it now. I'd so much imposter syndrome, right because
I was working in this industry that is full of
ivy League educated folks and.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Also folks who grew up with privilege.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
And mainly white, not mainly I'm predominantly white, and predominantly male,
and and just feeling just so much imposter syndrome, right.
But I think that really led to my work ethic
because I was trying so hard, let me work so
hard so they can't figure out.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
That I'm a fraud.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
That I'm actually not as good as they think I am.
And I constantly have that feeling of you just have
to be work harder than everybody else so they don't
figure out that you're a fraud. And I wasn't really
a fraud. I was, you know, it was just that
feeling of I don't belong here and and just not
having that self confidence that actually I do. And just
(20:34):
because I didn't graduate college didn't mean that I didn't
belong there because I worked just as hard as anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I think sometimes I feel
that in my job because I grew up doing theater
and there's a lot that I don't know, like skills, tangibly.
I have it all up here, but sometimes getting it
out through like that editing software is and all those
things are a lot harder for me. But yeah, I
(20:59):
try to remind myself that I wouldn't be here if
they didn't think.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
I could do it right. So but I get that.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think a lot of twenty somethings experienced the absolute
imposter syndrome. Do I belong here? Especially like as a
woman too, I think sometimes you can you can feel
that way, especially like I know for me, like in
the corporate setting with a lot of like, you know,
a lot of like the higher up figures are men,
and so I think that can be a little bit
(21:26):
intimidating sometimes because you're not seeing many people that like
look like you.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, and you know, being biracial, I definitely
wasn't seeing people who looked like me.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, my entire.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Pretty much, you know, my whole young young life.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So yeah, yeah, I remember when you first told me
about how that impacted you. I was going through sorority recruitment, yeah,
at school, and that was really hard. I went to
Elong University for people that don't know, so also down
South and sororities down South are business, serious, serious business,
and I feel like, I don't know if I guess
(22:05):
it was a part of your time, but I feel
like right now, being in a sorority is such a
huge thing for girls. A Yeah, it's like, oh, you
go to college and you're in a sorority. So even
though I was already in a sorority of my own,
being a music theater major, I wanted to, you know,
have that experience too, because I tried to have them
try to do the best of both worlds things. And
(22:25):
so when I was going through recruitm and I called
my mom crying because it was really it was like,
you know, people are judging you for the way that
you look, like very on surface.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
Things, superficial things like yeah, your clothes, your jewelry, Like
on the jury person.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I remember thinking about like what I was going to wear,
what jewelry to wear, so that they could know that
like I deserve to be there.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
And now looking back on it.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm half white
and I'm half Hispanic. But I think where I grew
up it was seemed ambiguous to folks. So and it
was constantly a question that I had to answer growing up,
and I just I just didn't. I mean, the reality
is is the sororities that I was rushing at that
(23:10):
time were all white and and so, and it just
was an impact that I just didn't get in and so.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
And that's fine. Didn't feel fine at the time, yeah
and so.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
And at the time it felt it actually felt like
so hurtful because so much of my childhood was there
was this question of my ethnicity and race, like you know,
what are you and stuff, and so in, which is
such a weird question. And we experienced that recently in
California when you're at We're at the winery.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yeah oh yeah, yeah yeah. The guy asked me, he
like where are you from? What are you? And I
was like, I'm American.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
He's like no, no, no, And it's interesting because you
know you and Dad, I mean, are white. And and
he didn't ask you too the question, right, it was
only to me. So that was just that was a
narrative that happened my entire life. And and that also
like led to like perhaps identity issues. I think, just
(24:13):
constantly having to uh not defend, but explain who I am,
like who I am racially and ethnic wise.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
No one has ever asked me who, like what I am?
Speaker 6 (24:25):
So I know and and so, and it still happens
to me all the time, as you witnessed and so.
And that can be really tiresome too, because I think
people don't realize like what a microaggression that is. And
in growing up your kid, right, you just want to
fit in, You just want to have friends, you just
(24:46):
want to be liked. And so it actually like I
I didn't like being biracial as a kid because it
just I was like, I just want to be one
or the other right, because I was just tired of
the questions and the and the explaining.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, per I'm gonna move us back into something you
mentioned earlier that you were married when you were twenty five. Yes,
and I remember when you told I don't know if
I remember when you told me that you were married.
I remember when I told you, but you go, I
remember what I felt. And I was like, why you
(25:19):
were married before? Dad? I was like, I could have
had like a half like sibling, Like it was so
because I just like what, you know, you're young. You
don't think that your parents have a life before their car.
But now being the age that you were when you
were married, I am like, I don't know how you
did that because I'm just like I will one. I
(25:43):
think you your story influenced me, and you've always been like,
you know, not like meanly, but you were like if
you get married at twenty five, I'm not letting it happen.
But I just think, like, I'm like, oh, your twenties
are not for marriage. I guess it is my opinion.
So yeah, why did you decide to get married at
(26:03):
twenty five?
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Gosh, Sarah, it all goes back to childhood, right, everything
everything does.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
So I think that.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
I got married for security, not financial security, but just security, right,
just to like end the chaos, right, Like my childhood
and my life in my twenties felt so chaotic, and
it just felt like a stabilizing force. Right, Okay, this
is going to be the opportunity to create everything I
(26:36):
didn't have, right, I'm just gonna I'm going to create
what I didn't have. I'm gonna make it happen, and
then I'm going to feel all of these things and
feel secure. And when I say secure, I mean secure myself,
but also just secure like that there's this solid foundation.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Sure, because I think like, at least in my relationship,
I feel like Olivia is like a secure base for.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Me, that whole like cot in your therapy.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, well I said that to them one time. I
was like, yeah, like you just feel like this very
secure home that allows me, you know, to launch and
do other things and who supports me and then can
be my beast, you know, all those things. But I
don't think I've ever felt that in a relationship before
until I had, you know, met and been with Olivia.
Where you feel like this very like solid foundation. But
(27:24):
I understand what you're saying, Like you wanted that. I
feel I.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
Wanted that, Yeah, I say, I don't think I had
that feeling in that particular race relationship.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
And that's nothing against that person.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
I just think that internally I wanted that and I
was trying to create it, and in the trying to
create it, Uh, I just probably didn't marry the right person.
And nothing wrong with them, they you know, were a
great person. It was just more about me, right, yea,
And what I went into the marriage wanting and thinking
(27:58):
I could create.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
And that's a lot of press for another person.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah too, I feel like marriage is like a very
big thing.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
It's a huge thing. Yeah, it's a huge thing.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
And I think at twenty five, I don't know that
I realized realized what a huge thing it was.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
And I also didn't have examples to pull.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
From, right you know, as you know, my parents divorce
when I was thirteen, and there was domestic violence in
my home, and so I don't know that I had the.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Just the lived experiences to pull.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
From, sure, and what a good marriage should should and
good marriage I don't even know what that means, but
what a marriage should look like?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, maybe not even should.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
I hate the words should because it puts like expectation
and judgment on things. But you know what it could
look like is a better and what it could look like?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, I think I see that in people in my
life today who didn't grow up with an example of
marriage of again like good or I don't know what word,
or like a healthy marriage. I don't know, because yeah,
it definitely affects the way that they view it and everything.
(29:17):
Do you suggest that like middle age twenty somethings get married, Like,
what would you say to that?
Speaker 5 (29:22):
I mean, I would, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I wouldn't want it for any of you, you and
your brothers. Yeah, I'd feel like you changed so much
in your twenties from like having all these different jobs,
having all these different experiences, whether it's college, grad school, whatever.
It's a time of kind of figuring out who you
want to be. As I always say, as you individuate,
(29:46):
it's this time of figuring it all out right and
so and it's also a reflective time I think of
also looking back at your own childhood and no matter
if it was good or bad or neutral, just kind
of looking at what happened in your family and what
parts you want to take with you and what you
want to leave behind. And I think it takes some
(30:09):
time to figure that out. Interesting, So yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
I think it. I think marriage can work for anybody.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
One of my good friends married her high school sweethearts,
so I mean it can work for anybody. I just
wouldn't want it for you, guys, But if you came
to me, I might be more open to it.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Now, don't worry, I'm not coming to you.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I I you know I whoever, if you decide to
get married, you know in your twenties, like, yes, you
support that, Like I'm not gonna, you know, bad talk it.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think where I'm at in my life and where
I feel like a lot of my friends are my
partner is is that you know, like you said, we're
trying to figure out like who we are and find
that stable ground. So the trying to get married to
somebody and become like a union together seems like very
confusing when you don't really even like know who you
(31:00):
are yet fully and what you want. I feel like,
you know, things change week to week, day to day
as you're trying to, you know, figure out what is
and what's not working for you.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Right, And I just want to add, like figuring out
who you are is not just something in your twenties.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
I think it's a lifelong journey.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've learned that through this podcast.
I feel you know, did you think in your twenties
or did you have that thought in your twenties of
like needing to have it together by the thirty It's
a very common thought.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I know something, I know.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
I know, I don't think I had that thought like
I have to have it all together, just because I
think I was just you know, living in the moment
and just more like, Okay, I have this job now,
this is what I'm doing now, you know. And so no,
(31:52):
I don't necessarily think that I had an internal pressure
of I have to have it all together.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
So, now, looking back on your twenties, is there any
thing that you would say to your like twenty something
self or a piece of advice.
Speaker 6 (32:05):
I would say to my twenty something self, like believe
in yourself more. And I think the most important thing
I would say to my twenty seven, twenty year old
self was that you're good enough just as you are.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
That's sweet.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Well, now we're going to change the gears again, and
I want to talk about something that you did. You
were in your forties when you went back to school, right,
I was forty eight, Okay, I was late forties. Yeah,
so my mom went back to school when I was
in high school.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Boys were in middle school. Steven might have been high
school too, maybe middle school, I'm not sure. Yeah, I
can't remember.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So you went back to school and you decided to
get a degree in psychology, and then you got your MS,
and so I think, what is really cool? Even though
at the time, I will I'll out myself here. At
the time, I did not think it was cool we're
going back to school. I totally had like an emotional
reaction to it. But now, being in my twenties and
(33:04):
you know, having some of like the stressors of like
needing to be successful and like everything, I think it's
a really great example of you know, you don't have
to have it all figured out and you can make
dreams happen later in life. So how did you like
decide to go back to school, Like what influenced that
for you?
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Sure, I always knew I was going to go back
to school. Okay. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Always knew it, even like in my twenties, I knew
i'd go back.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
It was just a matter of timing.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
And I knew I wanted to go back, but I
wasn't quite sure, like in my thirties what I wanted
to study. And I was also having children. You know,
I had three kids in five years. I had eighten
when I was thirty seven. So and raising three young
kids takes a lot of time and a lot of effort,
and I took it very seriously, and so so it was.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
More like, Okay, I'll do it when I can get kindergarten,
you know.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
And then, you know, some things for aiden, some challenges
came up, and so that put it off a little
bit longer. And I think when I made the decision
to go back, I felt I knew what I wanted
to study, Like I knew what my path was at
that point, okay, And once I knew what my path
was going to be, like it felt.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Urgent to me, like I felt like I need to
do it now.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Like, you know, it wasn't the best time for me
to go back to school, just within our family financially,
it wasn't at all, And dat had actually asked me
to put it off.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Another year, and I actually just couldn't.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
Like there's just like this urgency in me, like Okay,
I have to do this now.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Why psychology and like social worth.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Sure, I studied. I was just interested in it.
Speaker 6 (34:49):
I find psychology so interesting, and so I was just
interested in and that's why I chose psychology. But the
reason I chose social work as opposed to like maybe
going down the psychology slash like clinical clinical psychology slash
PhD like that route was I was also just by
(35:09):
my own experiences being a first generation kid and being
bi racial and just systems that I had been navigated,
had been in as a child, I felt like social
work was important to me.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
And then also.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
Just situations within our own family sure like pushed me
towards social work because I felt like social work really
kind of looks at the whole person, not that psychology doesn't.
Now I feel like psychology now does really look at
the whole person. But I was really interested in intersectionalities, right,
like like you know, for me, like how does how
is my mental health impacted by like I'm a woman
(35:55):
and I'm by racial and I'm a mother and all
these things like how do all these inner secs you know,
and you know, a middle class like, how do all
these things impact my life? And how do they impact
others' life? So that was really what was interesting to me,
and the where I chose to go to graduate school.
(36:16):
There was also a huge focus on social justice, which
was also something that was very important to me and
that I was interested in.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, what was you know, being a mom having three
kids in like their teenage years. You know what was
like the hardest part you think about, like going back
to school and navigating that.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Yeah, I think guilt, right, guilt for leaving you all.
I knew you weren't happy about it, and why would
you be. You know, you had me full time and
all of a sudden you weren't going to have me
like twenty four or seven.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Sure, so it makes total sense.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
So just the guilt of I mean, I tried my
best to schedule my classes and do that that I
was there for you all, and Dad totally pitched in
and helped out too to make it all happen. So
I'd say that was the most stressful part about it
was the guilt. And then also I was a full
(37:15):
time student. Like, I didn't go back part time. I
went back full time, and being a full time student
and raising three children at the same time was really difficult,
and it made me think I thought life was overwhelming
in my twenties when I dropped out of school, like
this is overwhelming, and so it's just perspective, right.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I felt like at the time I didn't even like,
you know, register like how like having both situations can
be like so hard, especially because yeah, school just takes
so much time and energy focus.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah, if you're.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
I do think the difference of going to school like
in that traditional age eighteen twenty five ish whatever, you know,
because there's with COVID that aingraine shifted. Sure, I do
think the difference is like when you're going to school
at eighteen to twenty five, you're not only navigating school,
you're navigating being away from home for the first time.
(38:12):
In many cases, you're figuring out like how do I
feed myself, do my laundry, make friends, which is so
socially overwhelming, and so going back to school in my
late forties, I wasn't navigating any of those things. I
was a student and a mother, right and a wife
(38:32):
that was say, oh, of course I come third, you
know those So I didn't have those other things. So, yes,
it was really hard to navigate, but in a lot
of ways much easier because I wasn't trying to develop
my social relationship. Sure, I wasn't trying to figure out
how to live on my own. I wasn't trying to
do all those things. I wasn't having to live in
a dorm, you know, with a stranger. You know, I
(38:54):
went home every night, so I had the safety and
security of my home and of falling back into being
a mother and a wife, and that kind of gives
perspectives into things and being a friend, you know. Just
my life was already established on those other levels. My
life was already established. It was more like I'm going
to school. And it's also different because in your twenties,
(39:17):
when you go to school, you're trying to figure out
what do I want to do?
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Who do I want to be?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Like?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
I already knew what I wanted.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
To do, and so I was very focused, and so
I think it was easier because I already knew what
I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that there's because
you know what you want and you're you have that focus.
I know, even just taking the one year off of school,
when I took my gap year going into Elon, I
had so much more of an appre appreciation for my
education and I was just like more focused because I
had time to step away from it. I think, you know,
(39:52):
being in high school, especially nowadays, it's you know, high school,
you go to college and you're kind of just like
on this path that is created for you, and you're
not really maybe sometimes mindful or present into the like
the privilege of it all, or that this is like
really exciting, because sometimes school can just be like such
(40:13):
a drag.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Yeah, so yeah, sure, I mean there are definitely classes
that were not as exciting for me. But as you know,
like I went back to school in full forth. So yeah,
I took it very seriously. I took it very seriously
because I was taking time and financial resources away from
my family and that was huge and so I felt
(40:35):
like I needed to do the best that I could.
And also at that time financially, I needed the scholarship money.
And so once I you know, my after my first year,
i'd done really well and I was offered like all
these scholarships for students who went back to school late
in life, and that really helped.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
That's cool. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
And it also one of the scholarships I had also
gave me the opportunity to mentor somebody who was in
high school who was a first generation Latina help her
with the college process of getting into college, you know,
helped her with the applications and writing her essays and stuff.
And that was like, you know, a great experience for me.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, yeah, that seems really cool to get to pass
it forward and to like know what she experienced and
now like being where you are and like having like
all these like full this full life being able to
give it back.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Sure. Sure.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
And it also you know, she I was not a
child of immigrants, but she was. And the systems and
they're right, it is a system, the education system, the
college system, and the application system, and you know, parents
sometimes don't know how to navigate that. So I just
felt so yeah, I felt so lucky that I could
(41:57):
help her navigate that.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, it's a very privileged system because I you know,
think about my boyfriend at the time, who you know,
unfortunately didn't have parents that were you know, very involved,
and I think about my college uh you know application process,
like we had somebody helping me, and you know, you
guys were very involved. And to see where like, you know,
the the two different like trajectories based off of like
(42:22):
in people who know and understand like the system and
like put money literally into applying to college versus not
its it's really crazy. Yeah, yeah, but because you went
through all of these things in your late forties early fifties,
you know, for the twenty somethings that are like breaking out,
that are like this is like, I have to know
(42:44):
it now. You know, with all this perspective you have,
what would you say to that?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
Sure, I think that it does and I get it.
And it's real, right because it's what you're experiencing. So
it's definitely real that you do feel like and I
do think now even in high school in college there's
such this. You've got to have it figured out. You
have to have the right internship, you have to have
this in order to be successful. And so I would
(43:09):
ask or wonder what is success? Right? What is success?
Is it monetary? Is it having a balanced life? Is
it I don't know, being kind to people, is it
giving back to your community? What is success and so?
And you're in your twenties, right, it feels like you
have to have it all figured out, but you don't.
I think one of there was this quote I read
(43:31):
and it was kind of like my guiding like mantra
when I was back in school and when I went
back to school, and it was something to the effect
that I'm not going to quote it directly because I
can't remember. It was something to the effect of it's
never too late to become who you were meant to be.
Speaker 5 (43:47):
So and I think that's very true.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
And I think your twenties and one of the things
I'm most proud of you about in your twenties is
it's a time of taking risks and it's a time
of pivoting. Yeah. And I know failure feels so awful,
I know it. And it also is a great teacher.
It's full of so much information if people can allow
themselves to fail.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (44:12):
And I think about your trajectory in your twenties where
you were really set on what you wanted to do
and we all thought that was going to happen. Yeah,
and you changed your mind in the last and you know,
I won't say last minute, but you changed your mind
after graduation. You also were graduating in this time of
COVID and things are so uncertain and you made a
major pivot and you're making it work, and you're making
(44:34):
it work really great.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Thanks. Yeah. I still feel like I don't even know
what I want sometimes, Like you know, when my manager
was asking me what I want in five years, and
I'm like, you know what, I'm not one hundred percent sure. Yeah.
I think I'm just like taking information from the different
experiences I'm having and trying to fe like make it
(44:57):
work that way. I'm like, Okay, I like this, loving this,
or I miss this, I don't miss that. Yeah, So
I feel like that's what I've been trying to do,
even though doesn't always feel really great.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
It feels very uncomfortable most of the time.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I feel very on edge, And I think that's just
like the person to me that like wants to succeed
and wants to like look good on paper and stuff.
But I know the person in me that, like you know,
it's just trying to figure out like who she is.
Like this is how it's done. And I always say
to my friends, one of my friends came to me
and was like, oh, yeah, I have a month off
(45:32):
between this job and that job. Like one of my
friends works at a hostel in Europe and she's like,
if you bartend here, like you can stay here for
free for the month, And she's like, should I do it?
I was like, yes, Like this is the time that
you do says like this, it's now like you should
do it or like consider doing something like that. I
always tell my friends or encourage them, like to take
(45:53):
the riskier decision. I feel like I've done that a
lot with like my gap year and all those things,
and it's been hard, but I like it's ended up
getting me like into a better position.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah. No, definitely.
Speaker 6 (46:05):
And I was just talking with one of my friends
this morning and we were talking about, you know, children
and graduating, and we were talking about where did where
did this pressure for your generation to have it all
figured out by the time you graduate from college or not.
Everybody goes to college, so just being in your twenties, like,
(46:28):
where did that?
Speaker 5 (46:29):
We were like, is it our fault? Did we do it?
Speaker 3 (46:31):
You know?
Speaker 5 (46:32):
As a side, it's probably a mixture of everything.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Yeah, Honestly, as you say that I'm the first thing
that came to my head with social media.
Speaker 5 (46:38):
Yeah No, And we talk about that too.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
Yeah, And we were talking about that too, cause we're
like we're talking about our kids, and we're like, there's
just this pressure to have it all figured out and
and you know, and as you know, my friend is
a doctor, an MD, and and she was even saying,
I don't She was like, I had some pressure, but
I don't think it was like this that I had
to have it everything figured out.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yeah. I think now because we're exposed to so much
more information about the people in our life, people we
don't even know. Like I'm looking at some random girl
living in New York City who's like in this amazing
apartment and I'm like, hush, yeah, And so you know,
and I think then you compare yourself to that person,
You're like, why am I not there yet? How do
I get there? And so yeah, I just think there's
(47:22):
a lot more information that you have having social media,
which is a great thing sometimes, but also to the detriment,
I think there's a I mean, I know I struggle
with a lot of comparing myself to other people. I
think a lot of twenty somethings do because we just
have that information, right.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
No, definitely, and it's it's a rabbit hole, right, you
go down it. And I'm sure you've heard this kind
of quote before, but and it's so true, like comparison
is the thief of joy. Yeah, you know, and I
often say to twenty somethings that when you compare yourself
to others, when you're on that social media rabbit hole
(48:01):
and you're comparing yourself to whether it's their job, the
way they look, you know, what clothes they're wearing, what
apartment they're living in, you're focusing It's not an equal comparison, right,
because you're you're focusing on their accomplishments and your detriments,
so it's not an equal comparison.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
And so yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah, there was I forget who had said this, but
I think about this imagery a lot. This person was
talking about, like if you're running a race, right, you
have the people on the sidelines that are looking at you,
and then you have you and the people that are
in line with you. You have the people that you're looking
at ahead, and then you have the people behind you
that are looking at you. And I think about it
(48:43):
in terms of one. One time, somebody commented on one
of my vlogs and was like, you're living my dream life, Like,
oh my goodness. So that person is looking at me
from the run and I'm and I'm in line, and
I'm like looking at the other people who you know,
I want to be, and then I'm also looking back
at that person being like, oh, you don't know that
I like cry today or something. So I think comparison
(49:03):
is very interesting, and I know that when I do it,
I try to like pull myself back into the present
moment and I'm like, definitely, this person has gone through
their own.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
Things, right exactly, you know, yeah, exactly. They didn't get
to that place without going through their own things.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah. So before I head to the last question, I
want to ask you a little bit about being a
therapist for young adults. Sure, because that is what we
talk about here. Yeah, And so I'm just curious, you know,
amongst your patients do you see like common like struggles
that twenty somethings have.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Sure, I think what what I've been seeing is probably
and I think like nationally we already know about this,
and you know, I'm seeing the same things that the
national data shows us in particular, you know it particularly
post COVID, right, okay, And you know, anxiety is still
really prevalent. There's an increase in social anxiety, you know,
(50:03):
lack of socialization, more isolation, and I also you know,
just kind of like a general distress, like an increase
in general distress overall relationship issues, which is likely and
it could likely be from impacts of of COVID and
not socializing as much and and losing those skills, right, Yeah,
(50:26):
twenty somethings really lost that developmental stage of developing those skills,
particularly those who lost their first year of college, which
is an important time of you know, socialization and making
friends and stuff and so so just you know, stuff
like that. And then there's also you know, like and
(50:51):
and also because I'm going to look at it from like,
how does how with those issues, how does race come in?
How do our inn identities interfect with all those things?
You know, how do our identities intersect with COVID? And
then how does that impact our mental health or not
even COVID just the world in general.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
Right, the world is very we are living in.
Speaker 6 (51:12):
A very divisive world, sure, and So how do the
identities that we embed also impact our mental health, whether
that's gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, religion, yeah, just you know,
any kind of identity that a person holds.
Speaker 5 (51:30):
Yeah, I think this COVID.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I didn't even really realize how much it impacted me
socially until, like, I you know, like going back, like
being in work and like trying to navigate those social
spaces is pretty hard, honestly sometimes. And you know what's
the hardest thing for me is the clothes is because
for COVID, for so many years, we just got to
sit in our sweatpants and whatnot. And now I feel
(51:55):
like I have so much harder of a time getting
dressed to go to work. Like that is the first
like worry in my head is like what am I
gonna wear? I'm gonna wear the same thing over again?
Are people gonna.
Speaker 5 (52:04):
Judge the same thing?
Speaker 3 (52:06):
I don't know, Like I wear the same white couple
of outfits right right?
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (52:10):
Well, I think that's like the idea that actually people
care that much about us, I know, or are looking
at us that much.
Speaker 5 (52:17):
You know.
Speaker 6 (52:17):
It's like, you know, I think we often, like particularly
like people who worry about social things like social anxiety.
You worry about how other people perceive you, and the
fact of the matter is they're not even thinking about Sure,
because people in general are thinking about themselves.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
I said, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
My therapist has told me that since I was like young.
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Yeah, it was like this.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
May hurt your feelings, but like, no one is actually
thinking about you, like think about how much? Yeah, like
are you actually thinking those things about people exactly? And
so when your patients come to you struggling with like
uncertainties like fear of the future sort of things in
their twenties, how do you navigate them through that?
Speaker 5 (52:57):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (52:57):
Sure, I just want to like preface, like what I'm
saying doesn't work for all. You know, everybody has their
own you know, things going on, and so I don't
feel like I can speak for a whole generation, sure,
by any stretch of the imagination, because you know, this
(53:18):
might not be relevant to some people. So I think
with navigating uncertainties, like, you know, that's kind of broad, right,
So I think it would you said about the future,
so we can go, Yeah, So I think about when
navigating about the future. What I think of is when
we get like obsessed with thinking about the future.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
It takes us out of the present.
Speaker 6 (53:40):
Right, So if we're like so future oriented, it takes
us out of the present, and then we don't actually
get to experience the journey that we're actually in. And
so oftentimes when we do that and we take ourselves
out and we don't really experience the journey when we
get to the destination, we're like, it's a letdown.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
And so.
Speaker 6 (54:00):
And then I also with about navigating the future, you know,
it's just like taking the first step, right, and I
think data talked about that, you know, which is so hard,
you know, just taking that first step, and and you know,
in taking the first step and actually in like kind
of what is right there in front of you, like
not making it so difficult, right, Like you know what's
(54:23):
there right in front of you that you can make
that first step and build some like trajectory and motivation
on because you know, anxiety is rooted and uncertainty, we know,
and uncertainty is here to stay right right, It's not
even if we figure out part of it in our twenties,
(54:45):
there are going to be other milestones in your life
that will bring uncertainties as well. And so it's also
like I think you used the word comfort earlier, like
kind of getting comfortable in the uncomfortable, getting comfortable in
the unset certainty and whatever that looks like for you, Like,
(55:05):
how can you find comfort in the uncertainty?
Speaker 5 (55:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I like the point about you're missing the current present
when you're always thinking about the future. I think about
the future a lot because I have anxiety, So I
think sometimes I, yeah, I am missing like what I'm
actually doing right now.
Speaker 5 (55:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (55:25):
And also when we're really focused on the future, as
it takes us away from being present, it makes me
think of also thinking about the future could take us
away from experiencing current emotions that we're feeling.
Speaker 5 (55:41):
Right, And so.
Speaker 6 (55:44):
Let's say it's about a job or whatever, and you're
really future oriented, maybe focusing on the future allows you
not to feel that imposter syndrome, or feel that self
doubt or or feel like not feel that feeling of
not being good enough. And so it's also is can
be a coping mechanism also, like to not feel those feelings.
(56:05):
And so sometimes like if a person if you could
just like take a moment and stop and be like,
what is it that I actually don't want to feel
right now? That's making me so focused on this future stuff.
That's interesting.
Speaker 5 (56:18):
Yeah. I never thought about it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (56:22):
Yeah, it's a way of like being mindful, right, being
self aware looking at your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Yeah, because something I feel like I've learned from Olivia
is emotions or information, and like, you know, just that statement.
I think it's very interesting because now I'll feel something
and I'm like, what is this telling weed?
Speaker 5 (56:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Absolutely, so I think that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (56:42):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Well, I'm going to ask you our final question which
we ask everybody, which is can you tell me a
recent time that you felt clueless?
Speaker 5 (56:49):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (56:50):
Sure, I think for me and the work that I
do because I work with twenty somethings, and so I
think I feel clueless weekly on the vernacular of twenty somethings,
like our language. Yes, what the acronyms mean? I have
to google them sometimes and look them up.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
Wait, what if somebody said that you didn't know?
Speaker 5 (57:13):
Oh gosh, I can't remember, right, like I try.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I feel like period sleigh per Yeah, oh yeah, definitely sleigh.
Speaker 5 (57:20):
And then also spill the tea.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
I'm like, I'm like, what is fill the tea? The gossip?
Speaker 6 (57:25):
Yeah, I know, I know that now. But so I
think that's when I feel the most. I feel clueless
about many things, but I think, you know, that's something
that I feel weekly.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah, every time I say slay in our family group, tap,
my dad's like, but it's such like a normal thing now,
you know, Like I feel like in my job with
all these younger twenty somethings, we're all like, slay period queen. Yeah,
it's just like something right, but it definitely isn't sometimes
like maybe work appropriate, but at.
Speaker 5 (57:55):
Least I feel like sure.
Speaker 6 (57:58):
One last thing i'd like to offer your listeners because
we were talking about mental health and I and and
I know mental health is still even though it's become
a bigger conversation in our society now, it's still very
inaccessible to yes, So I'd like to.
Speaker 5 (58:16):
Offer a link that I that I could get. I
don't have it with me.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Oh, I'll put it in that. I'll put the link
in the episode description, Okay.
Speaker 6 (58:22):
Yeah, And it's unfortunately it's only for New York. It's
a link to low income not low income, I'm sorry,
low fie mental health resources.
Speaker 5 (58:33):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (58:34):
Yeah, especially I feel like today I think a lot
of twenty somethings or at least twenty somethings that I've
been exposed to, do they want therapy, But I think
there's a lot who do I go to? I can't
afford it, So I think that's a really great resource,
especially with some of like the other resources around therapy
for free, like those services that you don't really know
(58:54):
what you're getting into. Yeah, sure, cool, Well, thanks for
being here.
Speaker 5 (58:57):
Mom, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (58:59):
Of course you made it, I did think you. Guys
can follow us on Instagram at completely fucking clueless and
on TikTok and YouTube at completely fck I n G clueless. Also, guys,
we didn't update you on this, but now all of
our videos are going to be exclusively on Spotify, so
that's where you can watch us. And thank you guys
(59:19):
so much.
Speaker 5 (59:20):
For being here today.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
I hope you have an amazing Tuesday, an amazing week,
and don't forget to be motherfucking clueless. Saying that in
front of you feel so wrong.
Speaker 7 (59:29):
Bie.
Speaker 4 (59:44):
This has been a fifty eight Mber production. For more shows,
please visit the fifty eight Mber channel, fifty eight Mber
dot com, or find us at fifty eight Mbermedia on socials.
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Speaker 4 (01:00):
You're listening to a fifty eight member production.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to the Completely Fucking Clueless podcast.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm in studio with my mom.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
She's finally here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It's taken a lot of convincing to get my mom here,
As you guys know, I had my dad here around
a year ago to this date, and he was like,
what is my episode? When do I get to be
the star of the show versus my mom? Have had
to you know, get here a bit more, had to
pull a bit because she's a therapist. She has an
(01:41):
amazing story and I'm so excited for you to tell
everybody today, So why don't you tell everyone you're name
and your pronouns?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Sure, my name is Christina and I used she her pronouns.
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
You know what, how I wanted to start this off
was I feel like, you know, Dad is such a talker.
I feel like I know a lot about his journey
as a young person, especially after sitting here and talking
with him, But I don't feel like I know a
lot about your journey. I know, like the you know, milestones,
like where you went to college, your mid twenties, you know,
meeting dad, But I don't know like the nooks and
(02:14):
crannies of your twenties and your young adulthood. So that's
what we're going to get into today. So let's start
off with you went to Georgia State University. Why'd you
decide to go there or is it just like it's
close to home?
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Sure, At when I went to school traditionally at eighteen,
like right after high school, it was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Four, and it sounds like a long time ago.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
And at the time, Georgia State was more like a
commuter college right in the suburbs of Atlanta because they
didn't have housing, So I never had the experience of
living like you did. Yeah, and the boys have living
at college in a dorm room, that whole like kind
of university. So I never had that because it was
more of a commuter school. And honestly, I went there
(03:06):
a because it was close to home, and also being
a first generation student, my parents didn't go to college
and so I didn't have folks that were helping me
navigate getting to college. I also grew up pretty low income,
and so there wasn't the school system didn't have like
(03:27):
the same types of resources that your school had, you know, college,
your advisors helping you, and really the school in the
with college preparation courses with aps and stuff like that,
and how the school, your public high school really is
like was navigating all of you to the majority of you.
(03:48):
I shouldn't say all of you, the majority of you
to get to college, right, And so I really didn't
have that. And I honestly think that I went to
college because all my friends were doing it, and so
I was.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Like, okay, us, this is what you do.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
You know, I didn't have like my parents sharing their
college experiences or stuff like that. However, my mom would
always was really pushing for me to go to college,
but she didn't have the experiences or the resource to
kind of help me navigate how to get there. So
I went to Georgia State A because it was pretty
(04:22):
inexpensive because I had to pay my way through college
and it was close and so that way I could
still work and go to school at the same time.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, when you started school, did you have like a
specific degree or did you just go in like undecided undecided.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
I believe I was mainly studying English and economics, but
I didn't get far enough into like, Okay, I'm specifically
going to Oh, I shouldn't say that I specifically was
thinking of economics at the time, but we can get
to that later. It was more of an influence of
the job that I had had taken at that time.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So you were like, during school, you were working a
job that was somewhere.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Yeah. I never will not at that point when I
first started school, I can't to be honest.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
I had so many jobs in my twenty really.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah wait, that's like Meg Jay she said, by the
time you're thirty five, you'll have like nine jobs.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
Yeah wait, what were all the jobs? I listened to
that podcast and I could really relate to that. Yeah,
I just had whatever jobs I'm trying to remember, Like once,
I was a gift wrapper. That's why you're a good
gift wrapper, why I love wrapping Christmas event? And what
else did I have? I never had like a service
(05:37):
type of job where like like waiter. Yeah, yeah, I
never had a job like that. I was a hostess, once.
I'm trying to I can't even remember so long ago.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Yeah, but because.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
I was supporting myself, I had many different jobs, like
you know, just trying to make it all come together financially.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah. And at that time, I'm like, you kind of
spoke about how you went to school because your friends
were going So was the whole like high school college job?
Was that the same trajectory that you feel a lot
of people in New York like circle were taking, are not? Really?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
Yeah? Yeah, I do think in my immediate friend group.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Yes, that was the trajectory, like everybody was going to
college and then you know, I guess seeking a career afterwards.
Like all of my immediate like immediate close friends went
to college right after high school.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And did a lot of people stay in the area
like you did, or did people kind of go all
over people?
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Kind of of my immediate friend group, everybody stayed in
the South, you know, in the Southeast.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
I grew up in a suburb of Atlanta.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Yeah, and a couple of my good friends at that
time also went to Georgia State at the same time.
I did cool cool, And so I know this The
people don't know that this is that you ended up
leaving school after two years. Correct for a little bit,
A little bit more like I was thinking about that earlier.
I don't remember the exactly how old I was, but
(07:11):
I was definitely in my early twenties.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
I think I completed like my first full two.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Years, okay, and then I had made a feeble attempt
at going back later, like maybe around like twenty four
or so, and for many reasons, it just didn't it
didn't stick. Yeah, and so I would say by the
time basically I ended at twenty one twenty one ish
and then tried try taking a class or two, maybe
(07:38):
around twenty three or twenty four, and then after that
point I never went back until later.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, So why did you end up designing leaving school?
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Yeah, it was I don't know that it was actually
like a decision that I thought out, Okay, I think,
which will probably be hard for you to imagine.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
I think I was more impulsive in my twenties.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, that is really hard to imagine, because I feel
like you wouldn't just make a decision like that nowadays.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
No, No, definitely, No, that's okay, definitely not. I feel
like I was struggling in school.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I wasn't the student that you know me to be.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
My mom went back to school. We'll talk about that later,
but she was like an incredible student, Like she was
up on the graduation stage when you graduated.
Speaker 6 (08:30):
That's crazy to think about it was it felt crazy
being out there, given my trajectory to getting there.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
It was a kind of surreal moment for me. So
it wasn't that I wasn't smart or couldn't.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Be a good student. I just don't think it was
a priority.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Like I think because of my childhood circumstances and experiences,
so much of my way of being in my early twenties,
which I understand now with a lot of therapy and insight,
it was all about survival, right and so, and for me,
(09:08):
surviving was how am I going to pay my rent?
How am I gonna pay my car payment? How am
I going to put food on the table? And so
at some point that became more important to me that part.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I don't know if more important. It just took over.
It was more pervasive, yeah than going to school. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
And then what happened was I guess maybe it was
like twenty one or so. Again, like having like numerous jobs,
and I was working for a temp agency and so
that is like they put you in any job that
comes up that a company needs a job. And so
I had gotten a call to be a receptionist at
(09:46):
First Boston and I did that and then they needed
somebody full time. So I was doing that and it
was great because I was just answering the phone so
I could do some homework in between, yeah stuff. And
then they asked me if I would like to do
it full time and they were offering me salary, healthcare benefits, which,
as you know now, is so important.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't get why every job doesn't have it, Like
when I look on LinkedIn and the job doesn't have it.
It almost like grew it, like you know, you're just
like onto the next because as I talked about with
my therapist, I was like, you know, if I when
you're looking for a job, now you have to think
about certain requirements and health insurance isn't there like it takes.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
A job out.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
Yeah definitely. So yeah, so they were offering me a
full time job. It had a salary. I can't even
remember what it was, but I'm sure it was something
like maybe fourteen fifteen thousand dollars a year, like you know,
which seems crazy now, and but it was you know,
mid eighties, and they were offered me salary, healthcare and
(10:52):
four one k okay, So it just seemed like a
no brainer that I would do that. And then it
just became really difficult to navigate working and going to
school at night. And I was thinking about about that
earlier today, and it felt very.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Overwhelming to me at the time.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
But the reality is so many people work numerous jobs
and go to school at the same time and they're
able to get their degree done and I didn't. And
I think at the time I just was tired of
the struggle, tired of being overwhelmed all the time, yea,
and decided to just work. And so in that at
(11:34):
my job at first Boston, another job came available that
was in their operations department.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
So then I got like.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Hr, No, it was more you know, it was an
investment firm, so it was more operations in like clearing
the trades, in putting the trades.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Doing stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
So and so that was yet you know, another promotion,
so a little bit more money and so.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
And I think, you know, I don't I thought about
it at the time.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
But I was like, Okay, I'm just going to do this,
Like you know, that career kind of just fell on
fell on to me. It wasn't something that I ever
chose or like thought about, Oh when I grow up,
I want to do this in finance, you know. So
it just kind of happened, and I was there and
I think I've always had a really great work ethic,
and I thought, Okay, well, this is just what I'm
(12:22):
going to do. And so I slowly was working my
way up, and eventually I worked my way up to
being a sales assistant and getting license, you know, taking
my Series seven and you know, and that led to
a bigger income. And so then I was like, yeah,
this is just what I'm going to do. But it's
(12:42):
wasn't necessarily not that it was the wrong decision, but
it would come back. Not graduating from college would come
back to haunt me.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Was it all this happening in Georgia or had you
moved to New York at that point?
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Yeah, all this was happening in Georgia. I moved, as
you know, I got married at twenty five the first time. Yeah,
and the person that I was married to at that
time was working in Philadelphia. So after we got married,
we moved to southern New Jersey, like kind of on
that Philly New Jersey border, and we lived there for
(13:15):
a bit, and then I started working in New York.
I was working at first Boston in New York at
that time, but we'd go on to I moved around
a lot in my twenties, So that was another thing
that I happened in my twenties.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I moved a lot. Where are all the places that
you lived?
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I lived in, as I said, just right outside of Philly,
and then I lived in Chicago.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Did you live in Chicago? In gosh, Sarah, I wish
I remember.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
I remember the timeline. I was still married to my
first husband, and yeah, so I was. I don't know,
I might have been like twenty six or so, okay, silly,
I know it was very quick, like when all that happened,
I was like in Philly and then I and I
worked in New York and then I'm moved to Chicago
and then and then I moved to New York after Chicago, Okay,
and that's kind of where I land and that's where
(14:05):
I landed, okay, And when I moved back to New York.
Was when I I might have been I don't know,
twenty twenty eight, I'm not sure, Okay, and when I
got my job at Morgan Stanley.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Okay, okay, cool, cool, Wow, that is a lot of moving.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I mean I think about like Katie, who you know,
lived in Saint Louis, went to school in North Carolina
and now lives in Dallas. And most of my friends
have stayed, you know, we've all stayed in New York.
But I think it's it sounds cool but also really
intimidating to move somewhere where you don't know people in
your twenties.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know that I thought about any
of that.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, it seems like you were just like, yeah, Bible mode.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Yeah, I don't I definitely, I don't know that I
thought about the same things that twenty somethings nowadays think about.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
I think I was just in it and I'm going
to survive it. Yeah, and I'm going to go where
things take me. So I was more letting life happen
to me instead of being in charge of my life.
Right when I look back on it, and yeah, and
that's just you know kind of how it went. And
all of that comes from my from my childhood right
(15:21):
in the way that I learned how to navigate the world.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, I mean I think it's interesting from you know,
doing this with Dad and you now, I feel like
both of your early twenty somethings journeys were very influenced
by like money and survival about like what will pay
the best. Like Dad was sort of saying, how you know,
like he knew a guy who knew a and like
(15:45):
that's how he ended up doing what he did because
it was like a money thing, not because it was
like this is what I really wanted to do with
my life, Like this is just like what I think
I'm expected to do and what will get me like
the best thing. And I mean I feel that a
little bit. As a twenty something, I do think more
of my job and career is navigated by like my
(16:05):
dreams and my passions. But I think sense, like especially
going into a more I mean honestly, since graduating, I
have felt more of the monetary pressure of like you know,
like you're growing up and you want to be financially
independent and you want to be able to pay for
the nice things, but like it's really really hard to
(16:25):
do that, sure, especially at the entry level.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So I think I feel it with Liz. I think
both of us feel like we're floundering a little bit
and that it's and it's hard because we're like, how
do we, you know, pay for everything, live a fun life,
show up to work. It can be very displacing and overwhelming.
When you said the part about feeling overwhelmed, I feel
(16:50):
that sometimes too. Sure, I think all the different things
that you're navigating in your twenties can be very overwhelming.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
Absolutely, I think I definitely felt overwhelmed all of my twenties.
I just don't know that I could name it right.
But there's your generation has grown up so much with
naming your emotion. Sure, you know what anxiety is, you
know what depression is, yes, and all of these things.
I didn't know what any of that was growing up
(17:19):
or in my twenties. Now, when I look back, I
was a very anxious person. I just didn't know what
to call it, yeah, or even what to call the overwhelm.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
And so I think when I.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Dropped out of school, it was from this place of
overwhelm and a place of.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Almost being tired of fighting so much and trying.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
To survive, and also being very shortsighted, like, yes, I
was in this job and it was and it was
a good job, and it helped me survive and paid
my bills and gave me health insurance and all these
unforem one k all these other things. But I just
I was so tired, like I was just tired and so,
(18:09):
which isn't like a great reason for dropping out. And
it was also very short sighted because I was looking
very much I've lost my train of thought there. I
was very focused on like the here and the now
and what do I need this month this week. I
wasn't focused so much on where am I going to
be five years from now, ten years from now, and
is dropping out of college and not having that college degree?
(18:29):
How's that going to impact me in this industry that
I decided was going to be where I worked and
had my career and it would come back to really
impact me.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So you feel like not having the degree impacted your career.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Oh, it absolutely did. Yeah, it absolutely did.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
I was fortunate enough along the way, both when I
worked at First Boston and at Morgan Stanley to have
really great mentors that helped me along the way and
also advocated for me. But there was a time when
I got to a level and and people were advocating
for me to be promoted, and they just said it
(19:07):
wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Because of a college degree.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, and so yeah, and that's when that's when I
really started to feel, you know, the impacts of that decision,
right that I had made, you know, years before, on
an impulse actually and not really thought about how it
was going to impact me.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Later, right, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
And that led to a lot of and also in
my twenties, which I know is something again didn't know
what to call it back then, but know what to
call it now. I'd so much imposter syndrome, right because
I was working in this industry that is full of
ivy League educated folks and.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Also folks who grew up with privilege.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
And mainly white, not mainly I'm predominantly white, and predominantly male,
and and just feeling just so much imposter syndrome, right.
But I think that really led to my work ethic
because I was trying so hard, let me work so
hard so they can't figure out.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
That I'm a fraud.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
That I'm actually not as good as they think I am.
And I constantly have that feeling of you just have
to be work harder than everybody else so they don't
figure out that you're a fraud. And I wasn't really
a fraud. I was, you know, it was just that
feeling of I don't belong here and and just not
having that self confidence that actually I do. And just
(20:34):
because I didn't graduate college didn't mean that I didn't
belong there because I worked just as hard as anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I think sometimes I feel
that in my job because I grew up doing theater
and there's a lot that I don't know, like skills, tangibly.
I have it all up here, but sometimes getting it
out through like that editing software is and all those
things are a lot harder for me. But yeah, I
(20:59):
try to remind myself that I wouldn't be here if
they didn't think.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
I could do it right. So but I get that.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think a lot of twenty somethings experienced the absolute
imposter syndrome. Do I belong here? Especially like as a
woman too, I think sometimes you can you can feel
that way, especially like I know for me, like in
the corporate setting with a lot of like, you know,
a lot of like the higher up figures are men,
and so I think that can be a little bit
(21:26):
intimidating sometimes because you're not seeing many people that like
look like you.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, and you know, being biracial, I definitely
wasn't seeing people who looked like me.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, my entire.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Pretty much, you know, my whole young young life.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So yeah, yeah, I remember when you first told me
about how that impacted you. I was going through sorority recruitment, yeah,
at school, and that was really hard. I went to
Elong University for people that don't know, so also down
South and sororities down South are business, serious, serious business,
and I feel like, I don't know if I guess
(22:05):
it was a part of your time, but I feel
like right now, being in a sorority is such a
huge thing for girls. A Yeah, it's like, oh, you
go to college and you're in a sorority. So even
though I was already in a sorority of my own,
being a music theater major, I wanted to, you know,
have that experience too, because I tried to have them
try to do the best of both worlds things. And
(22:25):
so when I was going through recruitm and I called
my mom crying because it was really it was like,
you know, people are judging you for the way that
you look, like very on surface.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
Things, superficial things like yeah, your clothes, your jewelry, Like
on the jury person.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I remember thinking about like what I was going to wear,
what jewelry to wear, so that they could know that
like I deserve to be there.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
And now looking back on it.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm half white
and I'm half Hispanic. But I think where I grew
up it was seemed ambiguous to folks. So and it
was constantly a question that I had to answer growing up,
and I just I just didn't. I mean, the reality
is is the sororities that I was rushing at that
(23:10):
time were all white and and so, and it just
was an impact that I just didn't get in and so.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
And that's fine. Didn't feel fine at the time, yeah
and so.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
And at the time it felt it actually felt like
so hurtful because so much of my childhood was there
was this question of my ethnicity and race, like you know,
what are you and stuff, and so in, which is
such a weird question. And we experienced that recently in
California when you're at We're at the winery.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yeah oh yeah, yeah yeah. The guy asked me, he
like where are you from? What are you? And I
was like, I'm American.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
He's like no, no, no, And it's interesting because you
know you and Dad, I mean, are white. And and
he didn't ask you too the question, right, it was
only to me. So that was just that was a
narrative that happened my entire life. And and that also
like led to like perhaps identity issues. I think, just
(24:13):
constantly having to uh not defend, but explain who I am,
like who I am racially and ethnic wise.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
No one has ever asked me who, like what I am?
Speaker 6 (24:25):
So I know and and so, and it still happens
to me all the time, as you witnessed and so.
And that can be really tiresome too, because I think
people don't realize like what a microaggression that is. And
in growing up your kid, right, you just want to
fit in, You just want to have friends, you just
(24:46):
want to be liked. And so it actually like I
I didn't like being biracial as a kid because it
just I was like, I just want to be one
or the other right, because I was just tired of
the questions and the and the explaining.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, per I'm gonna move us back into something you
mentioned earlier that you were married when you were twenty five. Yes,
and I remember when you told I don't know if
I remember when you told me that you were married.
I remember when I told you, but you go, I
remember what I felt. And I was like, why you
(25:19):
were married before? Dad? I was like, I could have
had like a half like sibling, Like it was so
because I just like what, you know, you're young. You
don't think that your parents have a life before their car.
But now being the age that you were when you
were married, I am like, I don't know how you
did that because I'm just like I will one. I
(25:43):
think you your story influenced me, and you've always been like,
you know, not like meanly, but you were like if
you get married at twenty five, I'm not letting it happen.
But I just think, like, I'm like, oh, your twenties
are not for marriage. I guess it is my opinion.
So yeah, why did you decide to get married at
(26:03):
twenty five?
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Gosh, Sarah, it all goes back to childhood, right, everything
everything does.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
So I think that.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
I got married for security, not financial security, but just security, right,
just to like end the chaos, right, Like my childhood
and my life in my twenties felt so chaotic, and
it just felt like a stabilizing force. Right, Okay, this
is going to be the opportunity to create everything I
(26:36):
didn't have, right, I'm just gonna I'm going to create
what I didn't have. I'm gonna make it happen, and
then I'm going to feel all of these things and
feel secure. And when I say secure, I mean secure myself,
but also just secure like that there's this solid foundation.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Sure, because I think like, at least in my relationship,
I feel like Olivia is like a secure base for.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Me, that whole like cot in your therapy.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, well I said that to them one time. I
was like, yeah, like you just feel like this very
secure home that allows me, you know, to launch and
do other things and who supports me and then can
be my beast, you know, all those things. But I
don't think I've ever felt that in a relationship before
until I had, you know, met and been with Olivia.
Where you feel like this very like solid foundation. But
(27:24):
I understand what you're saying, Like you wanted that. I
feel I.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
Wanted that, Yeah, I say, I don't think I had
that feeling in that particular race relationship.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
And that's nothing against that person.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
I just think that internally I wanted that and I
was trying to create it, and in the trying to
create it, Uh, I just probably didn't marry the right person.
And nothing wrong with them, they you know, were a
great person. It was just more about me, right, yea,
And what I went into the marriage wanting and thinking
(27:58):
I could create.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
And that's a lot of press for another person.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah too, I feel like marriage is like a very
big thing.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
It's a huge thing. Yeah, it's a huge thing.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
And I think at twenty five, I don't know that
I realized realized what a huge thing it was.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
And I also didn't have examples to pull.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
From, right you know, as you know, my parents divorce
when I was thirteen, and there was domestic violence in
my home, and so I don't know that I had the.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Just the lived experiences to pull.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
From, sure, and what a good marriage should should and
good marriage I don't even know what that means, but
what a marriage should look like?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, maybe not even should.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
I hate the words should because it puts like expectation
and judgment on things. But you know what it could
look like is a better and what it could look like?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, I think I see that in people in my
life today who didn't grow up with an example of
marriage of again like good or I don't know what word,
or like a healthy marriage. I don't know, because yeah,
it definitely affects the way that they view it and everything.
(29:17):
Do you suggest that like middle age twenty somethings get married, Like,
what would you say to that?
Speaker 5 (29:22):
I mean, I would, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I wouldn't want it for any of you, you and
your brothers. Yeah, I'd feel like you changed so much
in your twenties from like having all these different jobs,
having all these different experiences, whether it's college, grad school, whatever.
It's a time of kind of figuring out who you
want to be. As I always say, as you individuate,
(29:46):
it's this time of figuring it all out right and
so and it's also a reflective time I think of
also looking back at your own childhood and no matter
if it was good or bad or neutral, just kind
of looking at what happened in your family and what
parts you want to take with you and what you
want to leave behind. And I think it takes some
(30:09):
time to figure that out. Interesting, So yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
I think it. I think marriage can work for anybody.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
One of my good friends married her high school sweethearts,
so I mean it can work for anybody. I just
wouldn't want it for you, guys, But if you came
to me, I might be more open to it.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Now, don't worry, I'm not coming to you.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I I you know I whoever, if you decide to
get married, you know in your twenties, like, yes, you
support that, Like I'm not gonna, you know, bad talk it.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think where I'm at in my life and where
I feel like a lot of my friends are my
partner is is that you know, like you said, we're
trying to figure out like who we are and find
that stable ground. So the trying to get married to
somebody and become like a union together seems like very
confusing when you don't really even like know who you
(31:00):
are yet fully and what you want. I feel like,
you know, things change week to week, day to day
as you're trying to, you know, figure out what is
and what's not working for you.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Right, And I just want to add, like figuring out
who you are is not just something in your twenties.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
I think it's a lifelong journey.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've learned that through this podcast.
I feel you know, did you think in your twenties
or did you have that thought in your twenties of
like needing to have it together by the thirty It's
a very common thought.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I know something, I know.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
I know, I don't think I had that thought like
I have to have it all together, just because I
think I was just you know, living in the moment
and just more like, Okay, I have this job now,
this is what I'm doing now, you know. And so no,
(31:52):
I don't necessarily think that I had an internal pressure
of I have to have it all together.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
So, now, looking back on your twenties, is there any
thing that you would say to your like twenty something
self or a piece of advice.
Speaker 6 (32:05):
I would say to my twenty something self, like believe
in yourself more. And I think the most important thing
I would say to my twenty seven, twenty year old
self was that you're good enough just as you are.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
That's sweet.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Well, now we're going to change the gears again, and
I want to talk about something that you did. You
were in your forties when you went back to school, right,
I was forty eight, Okay, I was late forties. Yeah,
so my mom went back to school when I was
in high school.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Boys were in middle school. Steven might have been high
school too, maybe middle school, I'm not sure. Yeah, I
can't remember.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So you went back to school and you decided to
get a degree in psychology, and then you got your MS,
and so I think, what is really cool? Even though
at the time, I will I'll out myself here. At
the time, I did not think it was cool we're
going back to school. I totally had like an emotional
reaction to it. But now, being in my twenties and
(33:04):
you know, having some of like the stressors of like
needing to be successful and like everything, I think it's
a really great example of you know, you don't have
to have it all figured out and you can make
dreams happen later in life. So how did you like
decide to go back to school, Like what influenced that
for you?
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Sure, I always knew I was going to go back
to school. Okay. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Always knew it, even like in my twenties, I knew
i'd go back.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
It was just a matter of timing.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
And I knew I wanted to go back, but I
wasn't quite sure, like in my thirties what I wanted
to study. And I was also having children. You know,
I had three kids in five years. I had eighten
when I was thirty seven. So and raising three young
kids takes a lot of time and a lot of effort,
and I took it very seriously, and so so it was.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
More like, Okay, I'll do it when I can get kindergarten,
you know.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
And then, you know, some things for aiden, some challenges
came up, and so that put it off a little
bit longer. And I think when I made the decision
to go back, I felt I knew what I wanted
to study, Like I knew what my path was at
that point, okay, And once I knew what my path
was going to be, like it felt.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Urgent to me, like I felt like I need to
do it now.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Like, you know, it wasn't the best time for me
to go back to school, just within our family financially,
it wasn't at all, And dat had actually asked me
to put it off.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Another year, and I actually just couldn't.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
Like there's just like this urgency in me, like Okay,
I have to do this now.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Why psychology and like social worth.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Sure, I studied. I was just interested in it.
Speaker 6 (34:49):
I find psychology so interesting, and so I was just
interested in and that's why I chose psychology. But the
reason I chose social work as opposed to like maybe
going down the psychology slash like clinical clinical psychology slash
PhD like that route was I was also just by
(35:09):
my own experiences being a first generation kid and being
bi racial and just systems that I had been navigated,
had been in as a child, I felt like social
work was important to me.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
And then also.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
Just situations within our own family sure like pushed me
towards social work because I felt like social work really
kind of looks at the whole person, not that psychology doesn't.
Now I feel like psychology now does really look at
the whole person. But I was really interested in intersectionalities, right,
like like you know, for me, like how does how
is my mental health impacted by like I'm a woman
(35:55):
and I'm by racial and I'm a mother and all
these things like how do all these inner secs you know,
and you know, a middle class like, how do all
these things impact my life? And how do they impact
others' life? So that was really what was interesting to me,
and the where I chose to go to graduate school.
(36:16):
There was also a huge focus on social justice, which
was also something that was very important to me and
that I was interested in.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, what was you know, being a mom having three
kids in like their teenage years. You know what was
like the hardest part you think about, like going back
to school and navigating that.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Yeah, I think guilt, right, guilt for leaving you all.
I knew you weren't happy about it, and why would
you be. You know, you had me full time and
all of a sudden you weren't going to have me
like twenty four or seven.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Sure, so it makes total sense.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
So just the guilt of I mean, I tried my
best to schedule my classes and do that that I
was there for you all, and Dad totally pitched in
and helped out too to make it all happen. So
I'd say that was the most stressful part about it
was the guilt. And then also I was a full
(37:15):
time student. Like, I didn't go back part time. I
went back full time, and being a full time student
and raising three children at the same time was really difficult,
and it made me think I thought life was overwhelming
in my twenties when I dropped out of school, like
this is overwhelming, and so it's just perspective, right.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I felt like at the time I didn't even like,
you know, register like how like having both situations can
be like so hard, especially because yeah, school just takes
so much time and energy focus.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah, if you're.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
I do think the difference of going to school like
in that traditional age eighteen twenty five ish whatever, you know,
because there's with COVID that aingraine shifted. Sure, I do
think the difference is like when you're going to school
at eighteen to twenty five, you're not only navigating school,
you're navigating being away from home for the first time.
(38:12):
In many cases, you're figuring out like how do I
feed myself, do my laundry, make friends, which is so
socially overwhelming, and so going back to school in my
late forties, I wasn't navigating any of those things. I
was a student and a mother, right and a wife
(38:32):
that was say, oh, of course I come third, you
know those So I didn't have those other things. So, yes,
it was really hard to navigate, but in a lot
of ways much easier because I wasn't trying to develop
my social relationship. Sure, I wasn't trying to figure out
how to live on my own. I wasn't trying to
do all those things. I wasn't having to live in
a dorm, you know, with a stranger. You know, I
(38:54):
went home every night, so I had the safety and
security of my home and of falling back into being
a mother and a wife, and that kind of gives
perspectives into things and being a friend, you know. Just
my life was already established on those other levels. My
life was already established. It was more like I'm going
to school. And it's also different because in your twenties,
(39:17):
when you go to school, you're trying to figure out
what do I want to do?
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Who do I want to be?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Like?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
I already knew what I wanted.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
To do, and so I was very focused, and so
I think it was easier because I already knew what
I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that there's because
you know what you want and you're you have that focus.
I know, even just taking the one year off of school,
when I took my gap year going into Elon, I
had so much more of an appre appreciation for my
education and I was just like more focused because I
had time to step away from it. I think, you know,
(39:52):
being in high school, especially nowadays, it's you know, high school,
you go to college and you're kind of just like
on this path that is created for you, and you're
not really maybe sometimes mindful or present into the like
the privilege of it all, or that this is like
really exciting, because sometimes school can just be like such
(40:13):
a drag.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Yeah, so yeah, sure, I mean there are definitely classes
that were not as exciting for me. But as you know,
like I went back to school in full forth. So yeah,
I took it very seriously. I took it very seriously
because I was taking time and financial resources away from
my family and that was huge and so I felt
(40:35):
like I needed to do the best that I could.
And also at that time financially, I needed the scholarship money.
And so once I you know, my after my first year,
i'd done really well and I was offered like all
these scholarships for students who went back to school late
in life, and that really helped.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
That's cool. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
And it also one of the scholarships I had also
gave me the opportunity to mentor somebody who was in
high school who was a first generation Latina help her
with the college process of getting into college, you know,
helped her with the applications and writing her essays and stuff.
And that was like, you know, a great experience for me.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, yeah, that seems really cool to get to pass
it forward and to like know what she experienced and
now like being where you are and like having like
all these like full this full life being able to
give it back.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Sure. Sure.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
And it also you know, she I was not a
child of immigrants, but she was. And the systems and
they're right, it is a system, the education system, the
college system, and the application system, and you know, parents
sometimes don't know how to navigate that. So I just
felt so yeah, I felt so lucky that I could
(41:57):
help her navigate that.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, it's a very privileged system because I you know,
think about my boyfriend at the time, who you know,
unfortunately didn't have parents that were you know, very involved,
and I think about my college uh you know application process,
like we had somebody helping me, and you know, you
guys were very involved. And to see where like, you know,
the the two different like trajectories based off of like
(42:22):
in people who know and understand like the system and
like put money literally into applying to college versus not
its it's really crazy. Yeah, yeah, but because you went
through all of these things in your late forties early fifties,
you know, for the twenty somethings that are like breaking out,
that are like this is like, I have to know
(42:44):
it now. You know, with all this perspective you have,
what would you say to that?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
Sure, I think that it does and I get it.
And it's real, right because it's what you're experiencing. So
it's definitely real that you do feel like and I
do think now even in high school in college there's
such this. You've got to have it figured out. You
have to have the right internship, you have to have
this in order to be successful. And so I would
(43:09):
ask or wonder what is success? Right? What is success?
Is it monetary? Is it having a balanced life? Is
it I don't know, being kind to people, is it
giving back to your community? What is success and so?
And you're in your twenties, right, it feels like you
have to have it all figured out, but you don't.
I think one of there was this quote I read
(43:31):
and it was kind of like my guiding like mantra
when I was back in school and when I went
back to school, and it was something to the effect
that I'm not going to quote it directly because I
can't remember. It was something to the effect of it's
never too late to become who you were meant to be.
Speaker 5 (43:47):
So and I think that's very true.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
And I think your twenties and one of the things
I'm most proud of you about in your twenties is
it's a time of taking risks and it's a time
of pivoting. Yeah. And I know failure feels so awful,
I know it. And it also is a great teacher.
It's full of so much information if people can allow
themselves to fail.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (44:12):
And I think about your trajectory in your twenties where
you were really set on what you wanted to do
and we all thought that was going to happen. Yeah,
and you changed your mind in the last and you know,
I won't say last minute, but you changed your mind
after graduation. You also were graduating in this time of
COVID and things are so uncertain and you made a
major pivot and you're making it work, and you're making
(44:34):
it work really great.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Thanks. Yeah. I still feel like I don't even know
what I want sometimes, Like you know, when my manager
was asking me what I want in five years, and
I'm like, you know what, I'm not one hundred percent sure. Yeah.
I think I'm just like taking information from the different
experiences I'm having and trying to fe like make it
(44:57):
work that way. I'm like, Okay, I like this, loving this,
or I miss this, I don't miss that. Yeah, So
I feel like that's what I've been trying to do,
even though doesn't always feel really great.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
It feels very uncomfortable most of the time.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I feel very on edge, And I think that's just
like the person to me that like wants to succeed
and wants to like look good on paper and stuff.
But I know the person in me that, like you know,
it's just trying to figure out like who she is.
Like this is how it's done. And I always say
to my friends, one of my friends came to me
and was like, oh, yeah, I have a month off
(45:32):
between this job and that job. Like one of my
friends works at a hostel in Europe and she's like,
if you bartend here, like you can stay here for
free for the month, And she's like, should I do it?
I was like, yes, Like this is the time that
you do says like this, it's now like you should
do it or like consider doing something like that. I
always tell my friends or encourage them, like to take
(45:53):
the riskier decision. I feel like I've done that a
lot with like my gap year and all those things,
and it's been hard, but I like it's ended up
getting me like into a better position.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah. No, definitely.
Speaker 6 (46:05):
And I was just talking with one of my friends
this morning and we were talking about, you know, children
and graduating, and we were talking about where did where
did this pressure for your generation to have it all
figured out by the time you graduate from college or not.
Everybody goes to college, so just being in your twenties, like,
(46:28):
where did that?
Speaker 5 (46:29):
We were like, is it our fault? Did we do it?
Speaker 3 (46:31):
You know?
Speaker 5 (46:32):
As a side, it's probably a mixture of everything.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Yeah, Honestly, as you say that I'm the first thing
that came to my head with social media.
Speaker 5 (46:38):
Yeah No, And we talk about that too.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
Yeah, And we were talking about that too, cause we're
like we're talking about our kids, and we're like, there's
just this pressure to have it all figured out and
and you know, and as you know, my friend is
a doctor, an MD, and and she was even saying,
I don't She was like, I had some pressure, but
I don't think it was like this that I had
to have it everything figured out.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yeah. I think now because we're exposed to so much
more information about the people in our life, people we
don't even know. Like I'm looking at some random girl
living in New York City who's like in this amazing
apartment and I'm like, hush, yeah, And so you know,
and I think then you compare yourself to that person,
You're like, why am I not there yet? How do
I get there? And so yeah, I just think there's
(47:22):
a lot more information that you have having social media,
which is a great thing sometimes, but also to the detriment,
I think there's a I mean, I know I struggle
with a lot of comparing myself to other people. I
think a lot of twenty somethings do because we just
have that information, right.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
No, definitely, and it's it's a rabbit hole, right, you
go down it. And I'm sure you've heard this kind
of quote before, but and it's so true, like comparison
is the thief of joy. Yeah, you know, and I
often say to twenty somethings that when you compare yourself
to others, when you're on that social media rabbit hole
(48:01):
and you're comparing yourself to whether it's their job, the
way they look, you know, what clothes they're wearing, what
apartment they're living in, you're focusing It's not an equal comparison, right,
because you're you're focusing on their accomplishments and your detriments,
so it's not an equal comparison.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
And so yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah, there was I forget who had said this, but
I think about this imagery a lot. This person was
talking about, like if you're running a race, right, you
have the people on the sidelines that are looking at you,
and then you have you and the people that are
in line with you. You have the people that you're looking
at ahead, and then you have the people behind you
that are looking at you. And I think about it
(48:43):
in terms of one. One time, somebody commented on one
of my vlogs and was like, you're living my dream life, Like,
oh my goodness. So that person is looking at me
from the run and I'm and I'm in line, and
I'm like looking at the other people who you know,
I want to be, and then I'm also looking back
at that person being like, oh, you don't know that
I like cry today or something. So I think comparison
(49:03):
is very interesting, and I know that when I do it,
I try to like pull myself back into the present
moment and I'm like, definitely, this person has gone through
their own.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
Things, right exactly, you know, yeah, exactly. They didn't get
to that place without going through their own things.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah. So before I head to the last question, I
want to ask you a little bit about being a
therapist for young adults. Sure, because that is what we
talk about here. Yeah, And so I'm just curious, you know,
amongst your patients do you see like common like struggles
that twenty somethings have.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Sure, I think what what I've been seeing is probably
and I think like nationally we already know about this,
and you know, I'm seeing the same things that the
national data shows us in particular, you know it particularly
post COVID, right, okay, And you know, anxiety is still
really prevalent. There's an increase in social anxiety, you know,
(50:03):
lack of socialization, more isolation, and I also you know,
just kind of like a general distress, like an increase
in general distress overall relationship issues, which is likely and
it could likely be from impacts of of COVID and
not socializing as much and and losing those skills, right, Yeah,
(50:26):
twenty somethings really lost that developmental stage of developing those skills,
particularly those who lost their first year of college, which
is an important time of you know, socialization and making
friends and stuff and so so just you know, stuff
like that. And then there's also you know, like and
(50:51):
and also because I'm going to look at it from like,
how does how with those issues, how does race come in?
How do our inn identities interfect with all those things?
You know, how do our identities intersect with COVID? And
then how does that impact our mental health or not
even COVID just the world in general.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
Right, the world is very we are living in.
Speaker 6 (51:12):
A very divisive world, sure, and So how do the
identities that we embed also impact our mental health, whether
that's gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, religion, yeah, just you know,
any kind of identity that a person holds.
Speaker 5 (51:30):
Yeah, I think this COVID.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I didn't even really realize how much it impacted me
socially until, like, I you know, like going back, like
being in work and like trying to navigate those social
spaces is pretty hard, honestly sometimes. And you know what's
the hardest thing for me is the clothes is because
for COVID, for so many years, we just got to
sit in our sweatpants and whatnot. And now I feel
(51:55):
like I have so much harder of a time getting
dressed to go to work. Like that is the first
like worry in my head is like what am I
gonna wear? I'm gonna wear the same thing over again?
Are people gonna.
Speaker 5 (52:04):
Judge the same thing?
Speaker 3 (52:06):
I don't know, Like I wear the same white couple
of outfits right right?
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (52:10):
Well, I think that's like the idea that actually people
care that much about us, I know, or are looking
at us that much.
Speaker 5 (52:17):
You know.
Speaker 6 (52:17):
It's like, you know, I think we often, like particularly
like people who worry about social things like social anxiety.
You worry about how other people perceive you, and the
fact of the matter is they're not even thinking about Sure,
because people in general are thinking about themselves.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
I said, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
My therapist has told me that since I was like young.
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Yeah, it was like this.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
May hurt your feelings, but like, no one is actually
thinking about you, like think about how much? Yeah, like
are you actually thinking those things about people exactly? And
so when your patients come to you struggling with like
uncertainties like fear of the future sort of things in
their twenties, how do you navigate them through that?
Speaker 5 (52:57):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (52:57):
Sure, I just want to like preface, like what I'm
saying doesn't work for all. You know, everybody has their
own you know, things going on, and so I don't
feel like I can speak for a whole generation, sure,
by any stretch of the imagination, because you know, this
(53:18):
might not be relevant to some people. So I think
with navigating uncertainties, like, you know, that's kind of broad, right,
So I think it would you said about the future,
so we can go, Yeah, So I think about when
navigating about the future. What I think of is when
we get like obsessed with thinking about the future.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
It takes us out of the present.
Speaker 6 (53:40):
Right, So if we're like so future oriented, it takes
us out of the present, and then we don't actually
get to experience the journey that we're actually in. And
so oftentimes when we do that and we take ourselves
out and we don't really experience the journey when we
get to the destination, we're like, it's a letdown.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
And so.
Speaker 6 (54:00):
And then I also with about navigating the future, you know,
it's just like taking the first step, right, and I
think data talked about that, you know, which is so hard,
you know, just taking that first step, and and you know,
in taking the first step and actually in like kind
of what is right there in front of you, like
not making it so difficult, right, Like you know what's
(54:23):
there right in front of you that you can make
that first step and build some like trajectory and motivation
on because you know, anxiety is rooted and uncertainty, we know,
and uncertainty is here to stay right right, It's not
even if we figure out part of it in our twenties,
(54:45):
there are going to be other milestones in your life
that will bring uncertainties as well. And so it's also
like I think you used the word comfort earlier, like
kind of getting comfortable in the uncomfortable, getting comfortable in
the unset certainty and whatever that looks like for you, Like,
(55:05):
how can you find comfort in the uncertainty?
Speaker 5 (55:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I like the point about you're missing the current present
when you're always thinking about the future. I think about
the future a lot because I have anxiety, So I
think sometimes I, yeah, I am missing like what I'm
actually doing right now.
Speaker 5 (55:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (55:25):
And also when we're really focused on the future, as
it takes us away from being present, it makes me
think of also thinking about the future could take us
away from experiencing current emotions that we're feeling.
Speaker 5 (55:41):
Right, And so.
Speaker 6 (55:44):
Let's say it's about a job or whatever, and you're
really future oriented, maybe focusing on the future allows you
not to feel that imposter syndrome, or feel that self
doubt or or feel like not feel that feeling of
not being good enough. And so it's also is can
be a coping mechanism also, like to not feel those feelings.
(56:05):
And so sometimes like if a person if you could
just like take a moment and stop and be like,
what is it that I actually don't want to feel
right now? That's making me so focused on this future stuff.
That's interesting.
Speaker 5 (56:18):
Yeah. I never thought about it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (56:22):
Yeah, it's a way of like being mindful, right, being
self aware looking at your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Yeah, because something I feel like I've learned from Olivia
is emotions or information, and like, you know, just that statement.
I think it's very interesting because now I'll feel something
and I'm like, what is this telling weed?
Speaker 5 (56:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Absolutely, so I think that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (56:42):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Well, I'm going to ask you our final question which
we ask everybody, which is can you tell me a
recent time that you felt clueless?
Speaker 5 (56:49):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (56:50):
Sure, I think for me and the work that I
do because I work with twenty somethings, and so I
think I feel clueless weekly on the vernacular of twenty somethings,
like our language. Yes, what the acronyms mean? I have
to google them sometimes and look them up.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
Wait, what if somebody said that you didn't know?
Speaker 5 (57:13):
Oh gosh, I can't remember, right, like I try.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I feel like period sleigh per Yeah, oh yeah, definitely sleigh.
Speaker 5 (57:20):
And then also spill the tea.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
I'm like, I'm like, what is fill the tea? The gossip?
Speaker 6 (57:25):
Yeah, I know, I know that now. But so I
think that's when I feel the most. I feel clueless
about many things, but I think, you know, that's something
that I feel weekly.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah, every time I say slay in our family group, tap,
my dad's like, but it's such like a normal thing now,
you know, Like I feel like in my job with
all these younger twenty somethings, we're all like, slay period queen. Yeah,
it's just like something right, but it definitely isn't sometimes
like maybe work appropriate, but at.
Speaker 5 (57:55):
Least I feel like sure.
Speaker 6 (57:58):
One last thing i'd like to offer your listeners because
we were talking about mental health and I and and
I know mental health is still even though it's become
a bigger conversation in our society now, it's still very
inaccessible to yes, So I'd like to.
Speaker 5 (58:16):
Offer a link that I that I could get. I
don't have it with me.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Oh, I'll put it in that. I'll put the link
in the episode description, Okay.
Speaker 6 (58:22):
Yeah, And it's unfortunately it's only for New York. It's
a link to low income not low income, I'm sorry,
low fie mental health resources.
Speaker 5 (58:33):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (58:34):
Yeah, especially I feel like today I think a lot
of twenty somethings or at least twenty somethings that I've
been exposed to, do they want therapy, But I think
there's a lot who do I go to? I can't
afford it, So I think that's a really great resource,
especially with some of like the other resources around therapy
for free, like those services that you don't really know
(58:54):
what you're getting into. Yeah, sure, cool, Well, thanks for
being here.
Speaker 5 (58:57):
Mom, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (58:59):
Of course you made it, I did think you. Guys
can follow us on Instagram at completely fucking clueless and
on TikTok and YouTube at completely fck I n G clueless. Also, guys,
we didn't update you on this, but now all of
our videos are going to be exclusively on Spotify, so
that's where you can watch us. And thank you guys
(59:19):
so much.
Speaker 5 (59:20):
For being here today.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
I hope you have an amazing Tuesday, an amazing week,
and don't forget to be motherfucking clueless. Saying that in
front of you feel so wrong.
Speaker 7 (59:29):
Bie.
Speaker 4 (59:44):
This has been a fifty eight Mber production. For more shows,
please visit the fifty eight Mber channel, fifty eight Mber
dot com, or find us at fifty eight Mbermedia on socials.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
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