Part 4 The Development of a Serial Killer Masters Thesis

This is the final installment of the analysis of The Development of a Serial Killer Masters Thesis. This grounded study focuses on three serial killers: Bundy, Ridgeway, and Ramirez, and the characteristics that the three men have in common, as well as future indications based on the study.

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Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Hey, Composition of the Killer fans, it's doctor Cassidy here. Welcome back
for our discussion on the master's thesisabout the development of the serial killer.
And this is the fourth installment ofthis subject. You'll want to go back

(00:30):
and listen to it sequentially, startwith the first one, of course,
and it'll make a lot more sensebecause what we're doing is we're going through
this master's thesis and we're looking atall of his research. It's an excellent
paper and one that has some informationin it that I'm not that I wasn't
even aware of or I hadn't comeacross. So it's always it's always good.

(00:53):
I try to learn something new everyday, and certainly I'm learning every
time we look into this a littlebit deeper. There's a lot more complexities
to this than we even know.And always, as always, everything that
we discussed her on the podcast isnot meant to be a clinical diagnosis.
We are discussed in the development ofserial killers, and of course, you

(01:19):
know, I have my opinion onthat doesn't always agree with everyone else's,
but that's okay. We have tohave different opinions for the world to go
around, right, So let's diveinto it. If you recall the last
time we were talking about this,we ended on a note about we looked

(01:42):
at those three serial killers that arebeing looked at in this study, which
is Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez,and Gary Ridgeway, a summary of what
they have done, and then excusewe talked about his the two phases of
the coding process and the following factorsthat he identified, and let me just

(02:06):
review those so that we can getinto our get into this part of his
study. When he was coding,remember this is a grounded theory study,
and so when he was coding theinformation that he had collected that he had
researched, he was looking for similaritiesthat words that come up very often,

(02:27):
descriptors that come up very often,and this is what he came up with.
Stress and trauma, power control,need for belonging, loneliness, low
self esteem, sexually sadistic and violentpornography, the American culture, peer influences,

(02:49):
satanism, parent relationship patterns, andneurodevelopmental complications. And that's quite a
list. Those are all things thatwe've heard of. We've heard those commonalities
among some serial killers. It dependson what their typology is but certainly none
of these are really a surprise.Satanism is included on this one because Richard

(03:12):
Ramirez was reportedly as Satan, wasSatan worshiper, He was into Satanism,
so he left like the pentagram atseveral of his kills and things like that.
Now, whether he was a true, you know, believer in that,

(03:35):
I don't know. Sometimes people dothat for the shock value and they
don't really understand what it is they'resaying. So who knows what Richard Ramirez,
he certainly was evil, So wecan certainly see how that could be
true. But that's why it's onthe list. Stress and trauma. Let's
look at that first. Researchers Whitmanand I could Waga have focused on how

(04:02):
neglect, early adoptions, and abandonmentcontribute to the lack of emotional attachments in
early childhood relationships directly leading to serialkilling. Even though research on the psychosocial
causes of serial killing have focused onchildhood experiences, particularly abuse, loneliness,
and abandonment, leading serial killers tocommit their crimes, the researcher found patterns

(04:27):
of life events where two of theserial killers were abandoned or faced rejection in
their romantic relationships in adulthood, andthe other was repeatedly exposed to significant violence
SiZ childhood. So he's basically sayingthat although we you know, it is
true that we focus on the earlychildhood aspects, some of these people,

(04:50):
some of these killers, noted thatthe worst rejection was during their adulthood,
and that can be that can bewhat the trigger is. They may have
had all of these fantasies and thoughtsand feelings for many years, never acted
upon those, but once becoming anadult, if they become if they're rejected

(05:14):
by someone and it just really triggerssomething within them, they become a serial
killer. And that's what we're seeinghere in what he's found. And for
those reasons, the abandonment, therejection, and the romantic relationships in adulthood
and repeatedly exposed to significant violence.That's particularly what he means when he identifies

(05:43):
the first factor, which is stressand trauma. And I would have to
agree that if you look into anyserial killer, any serial killer, there's
some form of stress or trauma intheir life, and it's different for everybody.
There are some obviously there's some commonalities, but you know, That's what

(06:06):
we're looking at, is what happenedto help to help move them in this
direction, and how do we preventthat in the future. So, for
example, in sixty seven, Bundyattended an international affairs lecture on mainland China
and decided to transfer from University ofthe Puget Sound to the University of Washington's

(06:28):
Asian studies programs. And here hemet his first serious girlfriend. That's Marjorie
Russell. When that's a pseudonym becauseshe doesn't obviously want her real name out
there. In order to please andsway Marjorie, Bundy spent the summer following
his sophomore year at Stanford University's intensiveChinese language program. However, Bundy underestimated

(06:50):
the workload and found it hard tokeep up as he fell behind in his
Chinese language studies. Marjorie ended theirrelationship on the basis of Bundy's immaturity.
For example, he would sneak upon her, tap on her shoulder,
and then disappear. Marjorie later toldinvestigators that incidents like the aforementioned annoyed her
and that she advised him to growup. These events were highly stressful for

(07:13):
Bundy. He described the year afterMarjorie left him and his simultaneous lack of
success in his Chinese studies as absolutelythe pits for me, the lowest time
ever. As Bundy's brother said,Marjorie screwed him for a while he was
in charge of his emotions. Bundy'smother reported, as I understand it,
she told him she couldn't wait aroundfor Ted to have it made. She

(07:35):
found somebody else she'd go that way. He was pretty hurt by that,
and I can imagine, I mean, that is some serious rejection. And
if he was emotionally immature, whichhe I mean he was, there's no
doubt about that. I can seehow that would absolutely crumble his world.

(08:01):
So you know, it's not okayto treat people that way. I understand
that she was frustrated, but youknow, perhaps there was a better way
to end things with him. Whoknows. I mean, I don't mean
to judge her by any means,and certainly this is not her fault,
but you know, what we doand say to people really matters. I

(08:26):
mean, it really really matters.Richard Ramirez witnessed violence from a young age.
For example, he observed physical abuseby his father on his older brothers,
and he observed his father's anger andsaw his father use a hammer to
hit his own head until it bled. The father hit his own head.

(08:50):
He also witnessed the murder of hiscousin's wife at the hand of his cousin,
which is believed to have been thestraw that the proverbial straw that broke
the camel's When he witnessed that murder, it was very horrific, It was
very violent, and he talked aboutthat a lot. He referred back to
that a lot throughout his interviews.The hurt that Gary Ridgway experienced while separating

(09:16):
from his ex wives was a likelycontributor to his decision to kill prostitutes.
This is evidenced by Ridgway's response whenhe was asked about why he wanted to
kill prostitutes, and he said,because women hurt me, and I just
and that's all he said. Whenspecifically asked about which women hurt him,
Ridgway mentioned his ex wives. Healso found it difficult to adjust to his

(09:39):
life after both divorces, and thatis true he talked about his ex wives.
He also significantly discussed his mother andhow she treated him. So I
believe that certainly his early childhood experienceswere negative. They were the foundation,

(10:01):
and his ex wives triggered that thatwas the trigger. He had these thoughts,
he had these feelings, he hadthese fantasies, and then when he
was rejected by his wives, thatwas the trigger. And I understand where
this where he is going in thisMaster's thesis that it's not just early childhood

(10:24):
that can turns someone into a serialkiller. You can nitpick, you can
pick and choose different things in someone'slife and just estimate this might be what
happened. Oh, I think thiscould be what the trigger was. But
foundationally, experiences in early childhood setthat foundation. They set us up for

(10:46):
our future. And so for thatreason, yes, I agree with him
that he didn't start killing until hewas divorced. But there was a lot
more going on long before his wivesdivorced him, he said. Ridgway said,

(11:07):
I felt like my life was goingdown the tubes. I had my
weekends free, but I had nothingto do. A friend of ours called
me a week later and told mehe'd seen Claudia with a black guy,
and I was hurt. I wouldmuch rather have had her tell me that
she was going with another guy.I still loved her and loved her for
years afterward. I never got overit. I was stupid and called her
a horror. Deep down inside,I knew she didn't like black guys.

(11:28):
For years, if people asked meabout her, I'd say she was a
whore. It was terrible for me. Missed the boy, his son.
The second wife. She moved intoan apartment in Kent, and several times
I'd go over there, and Ididn't want to harass her. I'd just
go over and sit in the caraways away. Didn't have the nerve to
go and talk to her. Probablyfor a month, I'd go over three

(11:52):
hours a night. I didn't wantto pressure her. I just wanted to
be close to her. Kind ofhard to explain to my parents. It
was hard to tell anybody. Whenconfronted about how the killed prostitutes were not
related in any way to what Ridgeway'sex wives did to him, Ridgeway justified
killing the prostitutes, saying that theywere his escapegoat, so he used them

(12:18):
as a substitute for his ex wivesthat he wanted to kill. And I'm
going to interject that, yes,his brother as well. I don't know,
you know his idea of that beingan escapegoat, it's it's a substitute.
Who he really wanted to kill washis ex wives, and his mother

(12:41):
couldn't do that, so he usedprostitutes instead. Very very common. Many
authors have argued that the lack ofhealthy intimate relationship patterns increased chances of sexual
or sadistic acts as a part ofserial killers murders, and all three serial
killers indulged in sexual sadistic acts.Bundy's and Ridgeway's experiences are part of the

(13:03):
roughly half of the male serial killerstudied by Hickey in ninety seven who faced
some kind of rejection by an importantperson in their life. Ramirez's early environmental
exposure to aggression and violence is inconsistent. Excuse me is inconsistent with adoption studies,

(13:24):
which provided evidence of a combination ofgenetic and environmental risk factors contributing toward
individuals indulging in criminal behavior. Kesnerand mckenry in ninety eight. Their evidence
for the theory that parent child attachmentsinfluence violent behavior stands true for Richard Ramirez,
it stands true for a lot ofthem. Their results showed that individuals

(13:46):
who developed insecure and fearful attachment styleswere violent. From when Richard was two
years old, his father mercilessly cursedand beat his older children for stealing,
breaking into houses, and getting arrested. While his father took out his physical
aggression on himself and on Richard's oldersiblings, Richard would hide, shiver and

(14:07):
cry in the arms of his sister. Kesner and mckenry predicted that such childhood
experiences of serial killers would almost certainlylead to the development of non secure attachment
styles, and that these processes wouldlikely lead to difficulty informing relationships and to
the and to the development of lonelinessin both childhood and adulthood as experienced by

(14:30):
Richard Ramirez and Richard actually said inan interview, more than him actually hitting
me, I was afraid of it. In my mind. I'd seen him
beat Reuben and Robert, and I'dseen him lose his temper over the television
not working right when he wanted itto. They say it's worse to see
someone you love getting tortured or hurtand the being tortured or hurt yourself.

(14:50):
I don't know if that's true.Or not. But I was real frightened
of my father when he lost it. I ran, had and hid scared
shit. So, combined with thestress and trauma category, the effected sense
of failure in life also seems tohave played a role in the lives of
Bundy and Ridgeway. Bundy's failure inChinese studies in sixty seven is a pivotal

(15:11):
example for the stress he experienced.After giving up on Chinese studies and going
through a hurtful breakup, Bundy switchedhis academic focus to urban planning. Here,
too, he failed, creating anotherstress arm. Bundy partly blamed his
family for not preparing him enough tototally avoid failure, quote unquote, thus
resulting in his urges to kill asa coping mechanism. Now, many of

(15:35):
us have things that we have verygood coping mechanisms, you know, that
work positively for us. He founda coping mechanism that was negative. So
that's the difference. I mean,we all have coping mechanisms for everything.
That's just human nature. We developcoping mechanisms, most of ours are positive,

(15:58):
in this particular case, very verynegative. Ridgway explained his own failures
as related to how he was controlledby women and could not stand up for
himself or even support himself. Asexpressed by Ridgeway, women being preferred over
men at work in terms of shiptours seemed unfair to him, so he
was even upset about that. Hehad a very deep dislike of women being

(16:22):
favored in any way, you know, to him. They became, you
know, objects of his disgust andresentment. And so the women got preferential
treatment to stop working night hours,and that made Ridgeway mad, thinking that
he had been taken advantage of bybeing stuck working the night shift, killing

(16:45):
prostitutes as a way of Ridgeway settlingscores with women. Another part of failure
resulted from how pressurized and stressed Ridgewoyfelt and doing his job the right way.
For example, he felt like physicallyhitting someone at work when stressed out,
or murdering a prostitute. I'm sorryhe felt like physically hitting someone at
work when stressed out, or murderinga prostitute after work. However, as

(17:08):
expressed by Ridgeway, on stressful dayswhere he performed well or was appreciated for
his good work, he did notexperience the need to kill that's tremendous.
That is a tremendous finding, andit goes to show the very underdeveloped emotional

(17:30):
intelligence of Gary Ridgeway, because hewas easily manipulated. If he did well
and he was praised for that,he had a good feeling about himself and
so he didn't feel like he neededto kill anybody. But if he had

(17:51):
a bad day and he wasn't praisedfor doing anything and he felt really bad
about his performance, he would gokill somebody. That's extreme, but that's
also a very keen sign of immatureemotional development. Later on in Bundy's in

(18:11):
Ridgeways, lives daily stress and hassles, jobs, losing money or wallet,
financial difficulties, relationship issues, failureor pressure to perform sexually became natural triggers
to relieve frustrations by killing other people, and that was found by many different
many different researchers made that you cameto that conclusion. For example, Bundy,

(18:34):
speaking of himself in third person,said, it is clear that the
Samamish incident was either the result ofthe venting of a great amount of tension
or frustration that had accumulated over along period of time, or it was
an attempt to indulge in a differentmo And oh surely again, I mean,

(18:55):
we can see that this kind ofperson because one of the primary reasons
he did this, committed the murders, was a search for a release of
stress or feelings of low esteem oranger, hostility, resentment, whatever it
was challenged. It was channeled forsome reason toward women, young women,
and in particular and in a particularway. And well, we talked about

(19:21):
it. We have to go backto the root causes of the person,
the causes we can identify in tryingto determine why any individual would undertake to
kill persons in this way. Andwe said that this person was reacting inappropriately
to stress from his own environment.We're talking about stress as an umbrella label
for any number of things. Stressin his personal life, let's say,

(19:45):
a financial situation, his own senseof self esteem and fulfillment, the failures
in his life, other forms ofanxieties. You might be talking about condition
even after environmental stresses. We've talkedabout sexual stimulant in the environment that he
may be paying attention to on TVor even a highly valanced stimulating kind of

(20:10):
movie. Now, remember this wasthis is a quote from Bundy, So
it was a little unusual when Iwas reading it. But he does stop
and say a lot and uh hisown self esteem and YadA YadA. So
he you know, he's very introspective, but he's talking about himself and third
person, which is very interesting.It makes me think, you know,

(20:34):
anytime I see that, it makesme think of someone who has multiple personalities,
and I it wouldn't surprise me ifI mean, I think it's been
suggested that he would have that multiplepersonality disorder. He just becomes a whole
different person when he went to killso when Ridgay. When Ridgeway was asked

(20:55):
if he just woke up on aday and decided to kill his first victim,
he said, no, I thinkwhen I picked her up, I
was going to kill her. Whenasked about what clicked, Ridgeway said,
probably worked up to that. Itwasn't. Probably just all at one time,
worked up from the stuff that happenedto me at the house, stuff
that happened to me at work,happened from me getting my wallet stolen.
It could have been the day beforethat that women stole my money eighty bucks.

(21:22):
It was in the back seat ofmy truck behind the seat. I
had money in there they stole,and somebody might have pissed me off at
work that day I screwed up,So he in retrospect is literally thinking about
you know, common ordinary inconveniences thatalmost all of us have experienced. Now,
I've never had anybody steal money fromme, but I think I've lost

(21:48):
money before. I think that I'veI think all of us have probably bought
something that didn't work out and thenwe couldn't find their seat, couldn't return
it. And that's almost equal tojust losing the money if it's you to
you, So, I mean,I think that's very similar to other things.
We all have bad days at work, right, We all have bad
days at work. We all havepeople who have rejected us for one reason

(22:11):
or another. Those of us whoare emotionally mature understand that that's just life.
That person wasn't meant for us.You know, as much as it
hurts, you pick up and youmove on and you find someone else.
If something bad happens to you,you know, you may dwell on it
for a short while, but youeventually get over it and move forward.

(22:34):
Most of us have that ability,and we see here that Richard. Richard
just didn't do it. He couldnot do that. But I do appreciate
the fact that he said that itwas probably, you know, it worked
up to that it was a culminationof all these things that happened to him,

(22:55):
and so he recognizes that himself.That's powerful. That's powerful to get
these people to think about and talkabout their past and what those things probably
did to them and their development significant. That's one reason, you know,

(23:15):
and I know it happens, butI just feel like we need to make
a huge There needs to be ahuge focus on these violent offenders, interviewing
them, talking to them, gettingthis information and using it to analyze and
figure out how we can stop thesethings from happening. In another conversation,
when the author asked Ridgeway about whyhe killed these women, Ridgeway blamed his

(23:37):
second ex wife and said, Iwas just so mad at Marcia. She
treated me bad during the divorce.During the divorce, I just wanted to
kill her. When questioned about whyhe killed prostitutes instead, Ridgeway said,
if I had killed Marcia, Iwould have been the number one suspect.
I guess I just hated all women. I hated them prostitutes if all if

(24:00):
all they worried about was their moneyand time, like, hurry up,
I gotta get back that kind ofstuff, you know, that would kind
of set me off in a range, in a rage. Those were the
ones I killed. But if shewas nice and treated to me like we
were on a real date and notso worried about time and money, then
I wouldn't kill her. So itreally did depend on how he was treated

(24:22):
by people, and he could betriggered very easily. If he felt like
he was being disrespected, that wasa trigger. Rigua also mentioned that he
killed his victims in the middle ofhis date. Just scared My husband just
walked in and scared me to death. Okay, I'm back, sorry about

(24:49):
that. He never does that.It just scared me to death, all
right, So back to where wewere. When questioned about okay, Bridgeway
also mentioned that he killed his victimsin the middle of his day. The
following quote implies stress and anxiety experiencedby him right before he killed the victims.

(25:12):
Well, I had so much hatein my in myself that i'd cause
I had a lot of things Ididn't stand up for, so I dated
women, if she would have sex, if it was a motel or whatever,
if she lied to me about anything, or hurrying me and not enjoying

(25:36):
the sex. A culmination of allthose or some of them during the middle
and a lot of them were overby the airport. The noise set me
off. I know, one ofthem, like a truck came by and
it set me off. And plusthe women, the women lying to me.
These are weird quotes. They soundedthey sound weird, but I'm just
reading the quotes. In another quotedabout and their victim, Ridgeway said she

(26:02):
liked me touching her, She likedme. She would make me come on
top of her. And this lasttime when I killed her, I couldn't
come because of the hurryingness. Andthen Ridgeway was interrupted by the interviewer.
So those are the pieces of evidencethat this author is identifying for his reasons.

(26:29):
Of the saying that you know,stress is that probably the number one
reason these things happen. Power controlis the second one. The process of
possessing victims, having the power oversomeone else's life and eventually possessing their lives
by killing them immensely stimulated these serialkillers. This brings us to the next

(26:51):
factor, power control. Possessing physicaland psychological power and control over the victims
is what gratified the three series Killers, and that was a finding by many,
many different researchers. For example,after failing his first relationship and Chinese
studies, Bundy was left in uncertaintyabout what to do in his next life.

(27:22):
He did not want to return toschool as he developed a fear of
bumping into Marjorie. From whatever moneyhe had saved, he took a flying
trip around the country, and,still unable to face Marjorie and return to
the classes he failed in Bundy withdrewfrom school. He said, I absorbed
all this uncertainty and all this confusionabout why I was doing what I was

(27:44):
doing, wondering where I was going, all by myself. Because I'm not
the kind of person who socialized alot. There was no way to let
off steam. In order to quoteunquote let off steam resulting from the above
mentioned life situations engaged in compulsive andimpulsive Thievery suggested. It suggests that it's

(28:06):
also possible that Bundy treated his victimsas his stolen possessions, again referring to
himself in third person. He statedone element that came into play was anger
and hostility. But I don't thinkthat was an overriding emotion. That he
would go out hunting on most occasions. It was a high degree of anticipation,

(28:26):
of excitement or arousal. It wasan adventuristic kind of thing. The
fantasy is always more stimulating than theaftermath of the crime itself. He should
have recognized that that what really fascinatedhim was the hunt, the adventure of
searching out his victims, and toa degree, possessing them physically as one

(28:48):
would possess a potted plant, apainting, or a portion, owning as
it were this individual. And andI think we see a point reach slowly
perhaps where the control the possession aspectcame to include within its demands the necessity,
for purposes of gratification, the killingof the victims. Perhaps it came

(29:14):
to be seen that the ultimate possessionwas in fact the taking of the life,
and then purely the physical possession ofthe remains. Lastly, Bundy indicated
that failure to control his life servedas an additional attribute for him committing such
illegal and immoral acts. Now,remember it's significant that he talks about the

(29:38):
ultimate possession that you know, takingsomeone's life would be the ultimate possession.
It was theirs to control and thephysical possession of the remains. If you
recall, Bundy would go back tohis kills and have sex with the corpses.

(30:00):
He was, you know, practicingnecrophilia, and that that's a whole
other psychological study there. But tipin a nutshell necrophilia is it's like this
freedom abandonment of your sexual desires,the fear of your sexual desires, because
you're not going to be rejected.You can have sex with this person.

(30:26):
You can fantasize that they're still aliveand that they're enjoying it, but you
yourself don't. You don't have toworry about rejection because they cannot reject you.
So, I mean, I thinkBendy is a fantastic case study on

(30:51):
just how methodical. I mean,he didn't do well in school, he
didn't do well in some of thosethings, but he excelled in many other
areas and he have been, youknow, a pretty successful person. But
instead of focusing on the good thathe could do, he focused on what

(31:12):
was holding him back, and hedidn't try to fix any of it.
He just lashed out at it.He's he's such an interesting case and one
that I mean, that's why he'syou know, he's so very violent,
but he's interesting because he doesn't seemhe absolutely doesn't fit the norm of what

(31:37):
we think of as a serial killer. Remember in the beginning of this study,
he talks about the typical serial killerthat we picture in our mind is
a white male, not attractive,very scary, like a monster. And
Ted Mundy, I mean, theonly thing he's got similar to that is
that he's a white man. Hewas charming, he was good looking,

(32:01):
he was personable, he had agreat attitude when speaking to people. People
liked him. He was successful inmany many ways. But he just couldn't
turn off all of these things thathad happened to him in the past.
And then he found, you know, when after his first Chille found that

(32:23):
that was probably was one of themost satisfying things that he had ever done.
And he continued that. And that'swhat we find with most of these
serial killers. That's why they becameserial killers. It felt good the first
time they got away with it.They continue that. So Bundy also said

(32:47):
what happened was that this entity insidehim was not capable of being controlled any
longer, at least not for anyconsiderable period of time. It began to
try to justify itself, to createrationalizations for what he was doing. So,
yes, he was trying to rationalizewith himself, this is why I'm
doing this, This is why it'sokay, this is why I should be

(33:07):
allowed to do this. I knowa lot of them have taught that inside
self talk, and it's you know, that's a healthy thing to do for
most of us. We can havethat self talk and it helps us to
think things through. You know,we joke about I'm talking to myself and
all that kind of thing, butthat that is actually a very useful tool

(33:30):
for most of us. For someof us, like these people who have
had significant trauma, it's not necessarilya good thing because that they're not logical
about it. Common factors such asthievery and power control were also found in
Ramirez's crime. Shortly before Mike hadkilled his own life, Jesse Ramirez was

(33:53):
breaking into houses when no one wasthere, is dealing whatever he wanted.
This gave him a feeling of power. Therefore, Ramirez's future crimes of breaking
into houses, stealing, and finallymurdering occupants in the homes is explained by
the sexual stimulation and power that heexperienced. So basically, he he was

(34:15):
stealing these things, he started tofeel that power because he was getting away
with it, and it started tosexually arouse him, which of course we
know is very misconstrued. Most peopledon't get turned on by such negative things,
but of course we're not talking aboutnormal people here. Therefore, Ramirez

(34:39):
his future crimes of breaking into houses, stealing, and finally murdering occupants in
the homes is explained by the sexualstimulation and power that he experienced. Ramirez
said, it's like nothing else.You can't explain its intensity and words.
To have that power over life,nothing is more sexually exciting. It's the

(34:59):
old something very few people experience.In contrast to Bundy and Ramirez, there's
no evidence of Ridgeway engaging in thievery. Ridgeway desired to control and killed prostitutes
because they women in general always controlledhim. Ridgeway said, back then I
was just I was just a whimp, and then I was I had control

(35:22):
when I was when I killed thewomen, I got my rage out for
the time so for that short momenthe was powerful in his mind, and
he was and he had the powerto kill somebody, and he was successful
at it for a very long time. He says, pleasure in killing is
to get, you know, beingcontrol to have sex with him if I

(35:44):
wanted afterwards, and to take awayanother woman that so she won't hurt anybody
else. If Ridgeway's meetings with theprostitute did not go as planned, for
example, if she would not takea shower with him if he wanted,
or if she was indifferent during sex, and in a hurry, he ended
up killing. Ridgeway wanted to atleast be free from control by prostitutes,

(36:04):
especially when he felt out of controlfrom his work. He said, oh,
just anybody that you know kidded meduring during the for some reason,
you know, kidded me, orI had problems with him putting the right
formulas in and so back there,I had a lot of things just didn't

(36:25):
sink in my mind memory, andI'd put the wrong chemicals in and put
the wrong combinations of it. AndI ruined about three or four trucks during
the day. So that made memad, and I didn't have no way
of controlling that till later on whenwas around a prostitute. That's when I
started killing prostitutes about that time.So his self failure, you know,

(36:52):
his work was not good. Hewas he was messing up pretty bad,
and he felt out of control andupset about it. And the way for
him to regain his power and feelmasculine again was to kill prostitutes. The
aforementioned examples from the day to exhibitthe origin's importance and reasons for all three.

(37:15):
Serial killers need to exhibit power andcontrol over their victims. This finding
brings to mind homes and de Burgher'spower control oriented killer who derives pleasure from
exerting power, control, and dominanceover victims. Making their victims feel helpless
makes these killers feel in control ofa situation. The next one is need

(37:51):
for belonging. Apart from feeling powerfuland in control of their victims. Richard
Mureerschut Ramirez felt connected victims by goingthrough their things, Gary Ridgeway felt comforted
whileowing the company of prostitutes, andTed Bundy felt like he was a part
of his victims. For example,special Agent Bill Hagmire from the Behavioral Science

(38:15):
Unit, after interviewing, Bundy saidthe following to Mishaud and Ainsworth. He
Bundy said that after a while,murder isn't just a crime of lust violence,
It becomes possession. They are apart of you. After a while,
when you plan these that person becomesa part of you, and you
are forever one. Bundy said thateven after twenty or thirty that it's the

(38:37):
same thing because you're the last onethere. He said, you feel the
last bit of breath leaving their body, You're looking into their eyes, and
basically a person in that situation isGod. You then possess them and they
shall forever be a part of you, and the grounds where you kill them
or leave them become sacred to you, and you always, you will always

(38:57):
be drawn back to them. Remember, he kept going back, He kept
going back to his killing grounds andhaving sex with his victims. That day,
I went back to the apartment.It was like some kind of mystical
experience. It was all quiet andstill hot in there. You could smell

(39:21):
the dried blood. Particles of dustjust seemed to hover in the air.
And this was Richard Ramirez and hisfuture crimes of breaking into houses, stealing
and murdering occupants. It all beganwhen Ramiroz was twelve years old and witnessed
his cousin Mike killing his wife.Mike murdering his wife in front of Richard
left Richard traumatized, troubled, andshocked. But when Richard returned to the

(39:44):
apartment with his parents to pick uphis dead sister in law's jewelry, he
felt something. For the very firsttime, I looked at the place where
Jesse had fallen and died, andI got this kind of tingly feeling.
It was strangest thing. Then myfather told me to look in her pocketbook

(40:04):
for this jewelry my cousin wanted,and I dumped just his pocket book on
the bed and looked through her things. It gave me the weirdest feeling.
I mean, I knew her,and these were her things, and she
was dead, murdered, gone,and I was touching her things. It
made me feel in contact with her. As a child, Ridgeway was bullied
in school and in adulthood. Hewas bullied at work, as evidenced by

(40:28):
coworkers teasing him for his bad ideasand calling him names. In response to
ridgeway feeling rejected and being teased orbullied by coworkers. Ridgway's need for comfort
was met by him met by himpaying for prostitutes for it. And let
me just say this again, andI will say it every time it comes
up. People, you cannot bullyother people. I see it happening in

(40:55):
schools. We have programs, we'retrying to prevent this, but it happens
as adults too, and bullying ishorrific. Look what it did to these
people. It's such a commonality amongviolent offenders. Bullying. That's how important

(41:15):
this is. You have to thinkabout what you're saying to someone, what
you're doing to somebody, and howit affects them and their psyche. You
know, it's that lack of empathythat we don't have. If we feel
okay bullying people. You know,how would you feel if someone was doing
that to you? Stop and thinkabout it. If you can't feel anything,

(41:38):
if it doesn't bother you, that'sa problem. It's just for me.
It's so upsetting to think about.You know, these people had really
horrible lives, horrible and then havingto go and try to go to work

(42:04):
every single day knowing you're going tobe bullied, knowing you're not going to
feel like you're good enough to evenbe there, feeling rejected both by women
and men peers, being rejected byyour peers, it does things to people.
And in these extreme cases, youhave serial killers. And believe me,
there are more serial killers in thisworld than we know. People are

(42:28):
getting away with things and we haveno idea and it will be a long
time before we do. Some willnever be caught. So when we think
that this is these are all justvery extraordinary cases and it's not the norm.
It is the norm. It isthe norm. You have violent offenders,
whether they kill somebody or not.We have violent offenders who ruin other

(42:49):
people's lives because they've been bullied andit triggers them. They take as much
as they can take and then theykill other people. So there's no rant
about that for the day. It'svery setting to me. So Ridgeway said,
you learned to take it and youlearned to give it out to feeling
unaccepted and teased or bullied by coworkers. But it did bother me. I

(43:09):
had the problem with prostitution, andI didn't have anyone to go to.
There was no way out, Ipaid for the warmth and someone to talk
to. Now, how sad isthat he paid for the warmth and someone
to talk to, And well,I hated them if all they worried about
was their money and time, like, hurry up, I got to get

(43:30):
back. That kind of stuff,you know, that would kind of set
me off into a rage. Andthose were the ones I killed. He's
repeating this from earlier in this study. We read this already. Those were
the ones I killed. But ifshe was nice and treated me like we
were on a real date and notso worried about time and money, then
I wouldn't kill kill her. Theabove mentioned data for each serial killer indicates

(43:52):
some kind of connection or a senseof belongingness between them and their victims.
The next characteristic is loneliness. Hefound little evidence in his study that suggests
a solitary life led by Richard Ramirezduring his serial killing career. Ramirez did

(44:13):
not ever have an honest job,and his day started by waking up in
a hotel, going up for breakfast, gambling, using drugs, and either
going to a theater that showed pornographicmovies twenty four hours a day or looking
at magazines involving sexual bondage. Theonly time he would make an effort to
socialize was when he had to sellthe goods and or jewelry that he stole

(44:35):
from houses, or engage in sexwith a prostitute. Bundy described his youth
as being self contained, where hisfavorite pastime was to listen to late night
talk shows, feeling comforted as ifpeople were talking to him. Bundy said,
in junior high school, everything wasfine. Nothing that I can recall
happened that summer before my sophomore yearto stunt me or otherwise hinder my progress.

(44:59):
But I got to high and Ididn't make any progress. How can
I say it? I had aloss to describe it even now. Maybe
I didn't have the role models athome that could have aided me in school.
I don't know, but I feltalienated my old friends not a complete
sentence. They just seemed to moveon and I didn't. I don't know
why, and I don't know ifthere is an explanation. Maybe it's something

(45:21):
that was programmed by some kind ofgenetic thing. In my early schooling,
it seemed like there was no problemin learning what the appropriate social behaviors were
it just seemed like I hit wallin high school. That's also very significant.
He identifies that he was fine evenup into middle school, which middle

(45:42):
school is one of the most difficultages because we have puberty hitting, we
have this move towards more socializing.You form your groups, you form your
cliques. During this time, you'retrying to figure out who you are as
a person, and this, ofcourse, if you have identity problems already
going to be a really horrific timefor you. He didn't feel that way.
He felt like it was in highschool. That tells me that he

(46:06):
may have been a very late developer, which supports the idea that he was
emotionally immature. He didn't mature untilhe got into high school. And I
don't mean fully mature. We knowthat men especially don't mature until in their
mid twenties. But in this case, he really wasn't following. He really

(46:30):
wasn't following the developmental milestones that hispeers did. And he recognizes that.
Dundee also felt completely isolated in hisfreshman year. He said, my social
life was a big zero. Ispent a great deal of time with myself.

(46:52):
It was a lonely year. Forme, and it was worse because
I didn't have my old neighbors andbuddies around. Dundee also said that he
never spoke to about any of theseissues he faced in school with his mother
or a counselor because he thought therewas nothing wrong. Throughout Mundy's life,
he questioned social interactions and relationships andfelt he would never be socially adept and

(47:14):
later in adulthood in Chinese studies,law, and urban planning, but he
failed at all three. While inschool, Gary Ridgeway was far behind everyone
else in social interaction, and thiswas because he moved from city to city
with his parents. Ridgeway's the inabilityto engage in social relationships is also highlighted
by the fact that he sometimes paidprostitutes to only talk to him. Very

(47:38):
powerful, Very powerful if you havesomeone who is so insecure that and unable
to socially connect with someone unless hefeels like he needs to pay them.
Tremendous mental issues going on there.Of course, that's easy for us to

(48:02):
say looking back Hindsights twenty twenty.But you know, and I'm sure he
didn't tell. He wasn't telling anybodythat he was hiring prostitutes just to talk
to him. But unfortunately, youknow, we do miss signs, we
do miss warnings, and we justkind of brush them off as, oh,
no big deal. Oh he's that'sjust the way he is. We

(48:24):
brush things off, when in factwe should be really taking these kinds of
behaviors very, very seriously. Lonelinessand the need for power and control have
been common themes in the lives ofcrimes of all three serial killers. Loneliness
experienced by most serial killers can becounted as a contributing factor to the motivations

(48:45):
of controlling victims. This suggestion servesas an important link between loneliness and power
control factors. Martin's and Palermo intwo thousand and five said that loneliness may
be harmful for people who were atrisk for anti social behaviors, especially when
other facilitators come into play, suchas substance abuse, a violent criminal,

(49:07):
or a different environment, and lackof self esteem. Both Bundy and Ramirez
used substances before, during, andafter their crimes of exerting power control over
their victims, and Ramirez was raisedin a criminal and violent environment. The
next characteristic is low self esteem.Both Bundy and Ridgeway experienced low self esteem,

(49:29):
but there is no evidence of thesame for Richard Ramirez. Bundy counted
low self esteem as one of thosestressors, saying when people have are unable
to cope with some part of theirlife, the feelings of disconnect, loneliness,
alienation, self esteem, or whateverit is, they usually attribute their
state of mind to one degree oranother, to society at large, and

(49:52):
they finally choose some way of ventingwhat they have inside. Bundy stated that
he never found the supported home orin his family to help him out with
sports, and when he was notselected for the school basketball and baseball teams,
Bundy thought it was something personal.He said, I always felt I
was too small. This feeling beganto emerge in junior high school that I

(50:13):
didn't have the weight or physique forsports. It wasn't true, but I
never pushed myself. Bundy emphasized thefact that he did not find himself attractive
and was insecure about this, whichis completely think about this completely different from
you know, how we characterize Bundytoday today. I mean, he is
known as a handsome, charming serialkiller, and I've seen pictures of him

(50:38):
when he was in school. Hewas still handsome. He was a very
handsome young man, and yes hewas small in stature. I think it's
interesting that he says that he neverfound the support at home or in his
family to help him out with sports. I don't think it was just sports
that he did not find that atHomer's family. His mother even testified during

(51:02):
the trial and did a witness ornot a witness impact statement, but a
family statement, and she seemed verysupportive, absolutely until the day she died,
supported him and believed that he wasinnocent. And you know, you

(51:29):
would think that most caring, lovingmothers would, But I you know,
it's what was it that he missed. It can't be just about the sports.

(51:52):
It can't be just that he waslonely. It has to be a
culmination of many things. So actually, I think Bundy's mom is still alive,
but I have to look it up. I can't remember. She might
still be alive. I know intwenty one she was still alive because she

(52:15):
didn't interview, but I thought shehad passed away. I was just questioning
myself when I said that not incrediblyrelevant to this story, but I still
want to get it right. Ifshe's dead, that's fine, but if
she's not, I want to makesure I get that right, and went,
okay. So when we're talking aboutBundy and his sports, you know,

(52:36):
and other things that he was insecureabout. I think that that in
and of itself can be a culminationof reasons. You know, his frustration
came to a head and he beganacting out in this way. He said,
I don't think people perceived me thisway, but I saw myself as
meek. I perceived myself to beeasily intimidated and somewhat unsophisticated, uninterested,

(53:00):
even unattractive. Not in a grossaccentuated way that would keep me shuddering in
my apartment all day, but ina mild way that sort of took the
edge off things. When people weregenuinely interested in me, I seldom picked
up on it. Simply. Ijust didn't appreciate my worth. It's strange,
isn't it that under these circumstances todayI probably have a stronger self image

(53:21):
than I ever did before. Andthis is very true when you've got these
serial killers being interviewed or violent offendersbeing interviewed, and they're they're in retrospect.
They're reflecting about their life and abouttheir actions and particular times in their
life that is significant to them.You see them becoming more mature, more

(53:45):
emotionally mature. I see why Idid this. I understand why I did
this. I'm not sure exactly.You know, they'll be questioning themselves,
just like he is. He's youknow, he feels like he didn't appreciate
his own worth. But now thathe was caught, he can look back
on things and be like, oh, you know, I really was kind

(54:06):
of charming. I really was,you know, doing okay. I just
had this perception that I wasn't doingokay, But now I am. You
know. That's one reason that wedo a lot of reflection in higher education.
I think every class I teach youhave to do some form of reflection,

(54:27):
whether it's reading a chapter and reflectingon that information or reflecting on a
field experience. If we are ableto look back at ourselves and how we
did things and what we did duringthose times, it helps us to understand
who we are. It helps usto understand why we do what we do.
You know, this is how Ireacted to this situation. Why did

(54:50):
I do that? If I hadto do this again, I would probably
do it this way. And it'sa It's a very positive way to look
at your life, look at yourbehaviors in vision, things that you're learning
in school, experimenting with things thatyou're learning in school. That's why reflection
is so very important. And Ithink that, you know, journaling for

(55:13):
people is very important, and theremight be a study on this. I
don't know, but I would loveto see if there's a study. Maybe
that's something I can talk about inthe future. Journaling in early childhood is
very important because we can literally seeearly development occurring. We can look from
the beginning of the year to theend of the year in a journal and

(55:34):
watch their writing progression or lack ofprogression. It can go either way.
And so those are very powerful toolsthat we have. And I think that
if we have violent offenders, youknow, keep journals, reflect on things,
write down or even speaking to arecorder or something, you know,

(56:00):
whatever they want, however they wantto do it, they would find out
very valuable things about themselves as wellas why they put themselves into these circumstances,
into these situations where they felt strongenough to kill someone. I think

(56:20):
that would be incredibly important and probablylearn a little more about somebody than just
doing an interview. Some people aren'twilling to speak about what they've done,
but they'll write about it. Sometimesspeaking about it makes it real, you
know, if you say it,it's real, And a lot of them
live in a fantasy world. Theydon't want things to be really real.

(56:45):
Ridgeway found it hard to play sportswith students ahead of his grade, and
graduating from high school at the ageof twenty seems to be a contributor to
his low self esteem. According toPrithero and Smith, in his adulthood,
Gary Ridgeway was left to straught witha sense of self doubt after being abandoned
and divorced by his ex wives hadcheated on him. Ridgeway also articulated that

(57:07):
he paid to meet and be withthin prostitutes because he thought he would never
be able to spend time with thinnerwomen. Otherwise, the women I tend
to love here heavy set people.Claudia was pretty slim, but maybe I
had a guilt complex about the onlything I could pick up was a heavy
set woman. That's why I paidto have the thinner women love me,

(57:27):
even just being in the car withhim. I couldn't pick one up naturally.
That was one of the reasons Iwent out with him. I've got
something pinned up inside. He furtherwent on to say, you don't see
two big, heavy set people gettingtogether, the thin ones I could never
get. It's always Tom Cruise andthe slim woman. In other quotes,
Ridgway emphasized how his low self esteemand hatred for himself for not standing up

(57:51):
for himself played a role in hiskillings. He expected that he was not
He expressed that he was not strongenough to stand up for himself when women
often control and take advantage of him, for example at work and experiences with
his ex wives, which resulted inhim exerting power and control over his victims.
He mentioned dissatisfactions such as the prostituteline, being in a hurry and

(58:15):
or asking for money, not enjoyingthe sex not satisfying him, and or
noise from the airport or trucks asreasons for killing them, which are ridiculous
reasons. I mean, that's ridiculous. Just noises irritated him to the point
of killing them. He may seethat as the trigger, but he probably

(58:39):
planned on killing them all along.So I don't buy that. Hickey stated
that childhood traumatizations tends to manifest hisrejection, mistrust, anxiety, confusion,
and results in loss of self esteem, although this author did, I don't

(59:00):
find much evidence of childhood trauma forBundyan Ridgeway. They did experience trauma in
stress as a result of abandonment fromtheir serious relationships and adulthood. I disagree
with that. Gary Ridgeway talks abouthis mother a lot, talks about how
his mother was. You know,he wet the bed until he was in

(59:22):
his early teens, and she humiliatedhim over and over and over again.
And in my opinion, that wasprobably the first all of those things that
happened to him with his mother,that was the first step in him becoming
a violent offender. And yes,he had those rejections later in life,

(59:45):
and you could say, well,maybe those adult experiences is what led him
to that point. I think Idon't think that's true. I think he
had I think he had this ragebuilding up inside of him and he continued
and continued and continued until he hehad a trigger and that trigger was his
ex wives divorcing him, and hefound some sense of relief, in some

(01:00:13):
sense of satisfaction from killing people,and he continued to do that to be
able to experience those feelings again andagain. It is possible, he says,
that these events triggered underlying feelings aboutpast experiences of low self esteem and

(01:00:34):
confusion about social interactions from adolescents.Yes, the abandonment experience for both these
serial killers seems to have refueled theirlow self esteem, possibly making it worse
and thus resulting in serial killing asa coping mechanism. Absolutely true. Hickey's
findings is also evidence for while Ramirez'searly and continued exposure to violence and aggression

(01:00:57):
resulted in him being mistrustful of peoplein general. The next characteristic is sexually
sadistic and violent pornography. This factorhas played a part in initiating and facilitating
Bundy's and Ramirez's serial killing careers.For example, Bundy expressed how sexual violence
was incorporated in his thoughts on sexin general and how violent pornography shaped and

(01:01:22):
directed his crimes, which started bypeeping into windows and watching women. He
Bundy, referring to himself, waswalking down the street one evening and just
totally by chance, looked up intothe window of a house and saw a
woman undressing. He began with increasingregularity to canvas as it were the community
he lived in. He peeped inwindows and watched women undress or whatever it

(01:01:45):
could be seen during the evening.He approached it almost like a project,
throwing himself into it literally. Foryears still these occasions when he traveled about
the neighborhood and searched out candidates,places where he could see the things he
wanted to see, or dictated bythe demands of his normal life, so
he wouldn't break a date or postponean important event, or rearrange his life

(01:02:08):
in any significant way to accommodate hisindulgence indulgences in this voyeuristic behavior. Vundie's
preoccupation with sex and violence rose aroundsixty six and sixty seven, when his
first serious relationship with Marjorie commenced.This condition. He said, this condition

(01:02:29):
is not immediately seen by the individualor identified as a serious problem. It
sort of manifests itself in an interestconcerning sexual behavior sexual images. It might
simply be an attraction such as playboy, or a host of other normal,
healthy sexual stimuli that are found inthe environment, but this interest, for
some unknown reason, becomes geared towardsmatters of a sexual nature that involve violence.

(01:02:54):
I cannot emphasize enough on the gradualdevelopment of this. It is not
short term. Very powerful words,very powerful words for someone who exhibits so
many of the characteristics that we seein violent offenders. I cannot emphasize enough

(01:03:15):
on the gradual development of this outof his own mouth, incredibly important.
It is a gradual development, andthen there's a trigger. Bundy also articulated

(01:03:37):
that before the need to kill,there were fantasies fuelled by provocative women's bodies
and magazines, X rated movies ortelevision shows. He said, maybe he
focused on pornography as a vicarious wayof experiencing what his peers were experiencing in
reality. Then he got sucked intothe more sinister doctrines that are implicit in
pornography, the use, the abuse, that possosession of women as objects ted.

(01:04:01):
Bundy also mentioned how the pressure's tensionsand dissatisfactions filled the need to engage
in voyeurism and violent pornography, andhow this need would re emerge again and
again. That's why pornography in anyform is bad. While burglarizing in Los
Angeles, the influence of video andprinted pornography filled Ramirez interest in sexual violence.

(01:04:26):
He spent his days watching videos ofsexually sadistic and violent porn or looking
at magazines involving bondage. Who elsewas in the bondage? Can you remember?
I'll give you a minute to thinkabout it. B t K blind
torture, blind torture kill. Hewas into that. He not only looked

(01:04:50):
in his stories, he not onlygot magazines, but he drew his own
pictures. He drew his own fantasies. They found so any pieces of evidence
when they finally figured out it washim. So while burglarizing in Los Angeles,

(01:05:11):
the influence of video and printed pornographyfueled Ramirez his interest in sexual violence.
He would watch videos of sexually sadisticand violent porn or look at magazines
involving bondage. He would go totheaters that showed porno movies twenty four hours
a day, and seeing a womanwith a pentagram drawn on her body interested

(01:05:32):
and turned him on. So that'swhere that pentagram comes into. Remember when
I was questioning Satanism. His actualbelief in Satanism, or just that representation
on a woman's body that turned himon. Ramirez also said killing with a

(01:05:53):
knife is very personal. You're actuallyholding it as it goes in, and
then when death comes, you canfeel your victim dying through the knife.
It's like sex, so obviously avery warped sense of satisfaction. The next
characteristic is the American culture, whichI thought was very interesting that he identified

(01:06:13):
this. Bundy believed that culture andsociety were significant contributors to his serial killing
nature. This is best explained inBundy's own words. He said, a
factor that is almost indispensable to thiskind of behavior is the mobility of contemporary
American life. Living in large centersof population and living with lots of people,
you can get used to dealing withstrangers. It's the anonymity factor,

(01:06:36):
and that has a twofold effect.First of all, if you are among
strangers, you're less likely to rememberthem or care what they're doing, or
know what they should or should notbe doing, if they should or shouldn't
be there. Secondly, you're conditionedalmost not to be afraid of strangers.
Mobility is very important here, aswe've seen the individual's modus operandi was moving

(01:06:58):
large distances in it to camouflage whathe was doing. Moving these distances,
he was also able to take advantageof the anonymity factor. Remember remember that
Bundy did move from state to state. He tried to really space out his
victims so that they it would bemuch harder for them to put together all

(01:07:19):
of these things. They didn't havethe systems back then that we have today
that like pings, if you havesimilar crimes, once it gets put into
the database. You know, sovery different, very different time back then,
but still like you said, thatanonymity is very important. That he

(01:07:40):
doesn't want to be recognized. Sohe figured that out, I mean,
very cunning in his readings and inhis observations and what have you. In
this fantasy world he'd imagined, forsome reason, people disappearing all the time.
He was aware of how people droppedout and became runaways and whatnot.
In devising his scheme, he'd takensomewhat unrealistic conclusion that under the correct circumstances,

(01:08:04):
he could select any person as avictim and that there'd be virtually no
attention paid to that person's disappearance.People disappear every day. It happens all
the time. Richard Ramirez give thefollowing suggestion to people. What people can
do is not trust someone you don'tknow, and to always be aware of
what's going on around you. Whenyou drop your guard, that's when a

(01:08:26):
serial killer moves. This highlights therole of the American culture, where in
everyday life people do not suspect eachother of wrongdoings and can easily trust each
other. Do I think that it'san American culture. I don't know if
that's different anywhere else around the world. I think that innately we believe that

(01:08:47):
there are good in people. Ivery rare occasions. Can I think of
times when I thought something that's notright with this person. I mean,
I've had that experience. Don't getme wrong. Definitely, anytime you deal
with the public, you're gonna havethose feelings. Typically if you're if you're

(01:09:10):
in touch with your own feelings andthat ability to judge someone's character. Some
people can and some people can't.I do think I do think he's right
in that maybe women, especially giveother people benefit of the doubt. We

(01:09:30):
think, oh, they're just they'rejust weird, they're just being weird,
but they're nice, you know.I'll just be nice back to them and
go my own way. And sometimesit doesn't work. I mean, I've
had those experiences with stalkers. It'snot fun, it's scary, and you
have to really, like like Ramirezsaid, you have to really pay attention
to what's going on around you andyou don't drop your guard. And unfortunately,

(01:09:54):
we live in that kind of time. So I don't think it's just
American culture. I think that's trueanywhere you go in the world. But
you know, he certainly has adifferent perspective. And I appreciate that the
following two factors apply only to thecrimes of Ramirez and do not exist in

(01:10:18):
Bundy's or Ridgeways experiences. Pure influencesis a characteristic that does relate to Ramirez.
When he was young, he sawhis older brother sniff glue still things
and get arrested multiple times, beinginfluenced by his siblings. Ramirez also began
making marijuana from age ten. However, the majority of influence seems to have

(01:10:41):
come from Ramirez's cousin, Miguel orMike. Ramirez is twelve years old when
Mike returned from the war in Vietnam, Ramirez was exposed to Mike's polaroid pictures,
which included one photo showing a cockedforty five being held on Vietnamese women
who were being forced to perform felatiaon Mike. Mike said to Richard,
having power over life and death wasa high and incredible rush. It was

(01:11:06):
godlike You'd controlled who'd lived and whodied. You were God. Apart from
women forced to perform filatio. Mike'spolari pictures included him holding the decapitated head
of a woman who was forced tofilate him. In a way, Mike
influenced Richard with his words, pictures, and stories of rape, sexual sadism,

(01:11:28):
and killing, making Ramirez his novice. Mike taught him ways of the
world that is them the poor andinfluential against the rich and influential, and
being strong is the key to survival. Mike taught Ramirez how to be unseen
and killed with stealth. Mike said, watch out for gravel, clotheslines,

(01:11:49):
garbage cans, and dogs. Later, in Los Angeles, Ramirez accompanied his
older brother in burglaries, where hewas taught how to break logs and to
look for alarms, dogs, andother impediments. Carlo studied that Richard quickly
warned to the idea of getting moneyso easily it certainly beat working. He
knew stealing was wrong, that itwas against the teachings of the church and

(01:12:10):
the Ten Commandments, but he hadseen his brothers and other boys do it
regularly for years, and he wasextremely adept at getting in and out of
people's houses without being seen or leavingclues. Ramirez's brother in law was another
source of influence. Together, Peepinginto windows and houses to look at women
and sneaking into houses at night withoccupants sleeping inside thrilled them. Moreover,

(01:12:35):
after getting a job at holiday Inn, Richard found himself fantasizing about violent sex,
bondage and peeping into windows. Hewould test his skills of entering rooms
without the knowledge of unsuspecting guests andeventually still their wallets, money, jewelry,
and or watches. Carlo reports thatRichard Ramirez wanted to make money the

(01:12:56):
quick way, and without telling anyone, he left his hometown in February seventy
eight because it was too small andhe couldn't live the way he wanted to
there. However, throughout his journey, Mike's teachings, ways of the world,
and sexually sadistic images of women occupiedhis mind and he did not know
how to stop thinking about them.And then Satanism. Ramirez had believed in

(01:13:19):
Jesus Christ, but now he alsostarted believing in Satan and said, but
then, who's to say what isevil? A man's beliefs are his own
business. Neither the church nor anybodyelse has any right to tell you how
to think and how to act.That's what real freedom is about, to
be able to be who you reallyare, not what you're expected or supposed

(01:13:41):
to be. I think my opinionon this is completely based on my personal
spiritualism. I think that if youbelieve in God, you also believe that
there's Satan. You know, Godtalks about in the Bible. God talks
about his pursuit of us, hisfight for us all through our lifetime.

(01:14:12):
And you know, we know thatit's during these times where the devil is
really seeking us out that we seekGod's guidance and help. That's what most
of us do. But you havesomeone here like Ramirez who has had nothing
but pretty horrible influences. I mean, he basically was trained to be a

(01:14:35):
murderer, a serial killer. Hecertainly was a serial thief. Right,
So nothing that really he was influencedby in his younger years was good.
He did have a foundation of Christianity, but I don't think he was saved,

(01:15:00):
you know, I don't think hewas saved. I think that,
you know, the devil was ableto take over and influence him in that
way. And of course he hadtwo very evil people influencing him incredibly negatively.
I mean, that's unbelievable. Ifeel like his uncle and his cousin

(01:15:25):
should also be arrested and sentenced tolife or even death because of their influences
on him. You know, Ithink that's true in any case. I
think that if you have someone whohas taught someone these type of really evil
things and they end up being ahorribly violent offender, whose fault is that.

(01:15:45):
I get that you're an adult.Most of the time. You're an
adult, you have you know,free will, you can choose and do
what you want. But the influenceof peers and family members is so important
that we can and ignore that.We cannot ignore that. Ramirez's childhood friend
Tom Ramos, believed that, atage thirteen, Ramiro started believing in Satanism

(01:16:10):
after his involvement in Bible studies.Another childhood friend recalled, he said he
could not live the way the Biblewanted him to live. Later in adulthood,
Ramirez discovered the Satanic Bible, abook that praises the qualities of Satan
written by Anton Levy, who alsofounded the Church of Satan in San Francisco.
Lavay openly spoke about accepting and recommendedSatan. In LaVey's organization of Satan,

(01:16:35):
people could do what they wanted withno burden of sin or guilt.
Reading the Satanic Bible and getting involvedwith other Satan worshippers and the Church of
Satan provided Ramirez with a sense ofwhere he belonged. Richard felt he could
relate to such an organization and people, and thus he traveled from Los Angeles
to San Francisco. When LaVey releasedmore books relating to Satanic worsh Richard bred

(01:17:00):
them all and drew further into himself, believing that Satan was all he had.
And let me say, if yousurround yourself with negativity, if you
surround yourself with things such as Satanism, people who believe in Satan. Satanism.

(01:17:25):
People who are going to influence youin a negative way, the chances
are you're going to go that negativeway, and that's what we see here
with Ramirez. I don't know wherehis mother was, but I do know
that if he had had maybe oneperson, one person in his life who

(01:17:50):
had pulled him out of that andgiven him positive experiences, acceptance, a
feeling of love, a feeling ofattachment, would we have seen him escalate
to these other behaviors. You know, we'll never know that. That's what

(01:18:10):
we need to think about. However, while consuming several drugs such as PCP,
cocaine, marijuana, and various otherhallucinogens, Ramira's visually hallucinated monsters doing
appalling things to people, including havingsex with them. As a culmination of
all these experiences, Ramirez started believingin his relationship with Satan, who he

(01:18:34):
believed protected him. He said tohis sister, nothing bad's gonna happen because
I'm protected, Okay, protected bySatan because Satan represents what I feel.
I'm not like other people. I'mdifferent, and he definitely was different.
You know, I've said before,I'll say it again. I do believe

(01:18:54):
there are people in this world whoare born evil. I believe that.
I think that, you know,maybe there's a maybe there's some sort of
maybe not genetic disposition, but certainlyI think that there's there's just some people

(01:19:15):
who were born evil and or maybethey're in I don't know, maybe they're
influenced so early on that it seemsthat way. I don't have an answer
for that. Ramirez lardon hundred andsuburban areas of Los Angeles and San Francisco
for victims to murder and houses tosteal from. He targeted houses of upscale

(01:19:36):
suburbanites, and Carlo concluded that Ramirezwas a burglar by profession, and a
very good one. He needed moneyfor his drugs, food, and stay
in various hotels, and the onlyway to have his to have this was
by ransacking homes of the ridge tobe able to commute to his potential victims
houses every other day. Ramirez stillcars in broad daylight, but the he

(01:20:00):
was gratified only by his experiences ofkilling people in their homes. According to
Lindacer, robbery was the motive ofRamirez's crumbs, but not the only one.
A secondary motive was to spread fearand violence as Ramirez had always been
exposed to. Ramirez was different fromother burglars. He always chose houses where
occupants were home and asleep. Lindackeralso says that Ramirez not only killed his

(01:20:25):
victims, but also added torture,rape, and mutilation. Lindacker summarized that
with every murder and home ransacked,Ramirez's desire for torture would increase, resulting
in rape, filatio, and sodomy. Not fitting descriptions or patterns of normal
serial killers, Criminologists deemed that Ramirezdeemed him as an equal opportunity serial killer,

(01:20:49):
willing to murder anyone, believing thatSatan is protecting him. Ramirez also
believed that committing these crimes and murderswould please Satan, leading him to gain
Satan's blessing. This is evidenced bya few of Ramire's as murders where he
would call out to Satan to watchwhat he was about to do before bludgeoning
his victims. A few times beforeentering homes, Ramirez would pray to Satan,

(01:21:12):
by all that is evil, Iyour humble servant, invokes Satan to
be here and accept this offering.He would say when confirming with his victims
if he got all of the jewelryand or money in the house or randomly
in the middle of his rape andtorture, Ramirez made them swear to state
where swear to Satan instead of God. Parent relationship patterns was also identified.

(01:21:38):
Isn't that Isn't that a very suddenstop to something as horrific as Satanism and
having the victims swear to Satan insteadof God. It is very abrupt,
but of course that's how it's written. The next one is parent relationship patterns.
Apart from Bundy recognizing that he didnot have any role models to look

(01:22:00):
to look up to in his familyand his family not preparing him to avoid
failures, he also admitted not askingand receiving help for personal matters. Further
On, he reported his mother notbeing open to talk on intimate personal terms.
When asked if he ever shared hishigh school isolation experiences with mother or
a counselor, Bundy said, itnever crossed my mind. I didn't think

(01:22:23):
anything was wrong necessarily. I wasn'tsure what was wrong and what was right.
All I knew was that I felta bit different A many many of
our violent offenders say that they alwaysfelt different, they always felt like they
didn't fit in. That again,is the importance of acceptance and avoiding,

(01:22:44):
you know, bullying and those typeof activities. We just make it worse,
We just make things worse. There'sno fun in that. I don't
understand why anybody gets off on Itmakes no sense to me whatsoever. But
I'm very empathic, So for me, it's horrific to tread another human being
that way. And for these peoplewho are bullies, it's their way to

(01:23:08):
feel power. It's not such ahuge jump from being a bully and moving
into being a violent offender. Nota huge jump there. People. In
addition to the exposure to violence,criminal activities, and sexual sadism from Ramirez,

(01:23:30):
his family, Richard and his fatherhad a distant and unhealthy relationship with
frequent arguments. This was one ofthe main reasons he left his hometown for
Los Angeles. Ridgeway's household was dominatedby his mother, and it was alleged
by other relatives that she physically abusedhis father. His mother made Ridgeway and
his wife move in with her andwould keep his paychecks, giving him money

(01:23:53):
only when she thought it was appropriateto do so. Ridgeway's mother was the
head of the family, and GaryRidgeway did almost nothing before getting her approval.
This highlights Ridgeway's dependency on his motherand his mother's control on him and
his life. This also highlights adifference between the distant relationships experienced by Bundy
and Ramirez with at least one parentand the control that Ridgway's mother exercised on

(01:24:15):
him. Again, you see thisdomineering mother with Ridgeway, who bullied him,
who intimidated him. He literally,even as an adult, had to
get her permission to do anything,and moved his wife, his new bride
into the home to live with hismother and father, and he very much

(01:24:41):
if his father was thought to bea whimp, you know, since he
was easily dominated by his wife,that's a really good reason why Ridgeway felt
that he was also a wimp.And that's his word, not mine.
So you see a huge, hugeinfluence, parental influence. That's what he

(01:25:01):
grew up in. He could notbreak free from that, and one of
the only ways he found to losethat feeling of control from his mother was
to kill women. Makes perfect sense. Neurodevelopmental complications is another characteristic identified in

(01:25:26):
this master's thesis. At two yearsold, Richard was nearly killed by a
dresser that fell on top of him. He remained unconscious for fifteen minutes and
sustained a concussion. At five yearsold, a second incident involved Richard getting
slammed by a swing, leaving himunconscious. Ramirez experienced his first epileptic seizure
in fifth grade and later experienced moregrandmam and petite mass seizures. He was

(01:25:47):
not diagnosed, treated, or givenany medication. It was only years later
after his crimes that Ramirez was diagnosedwith temporal lobe epilepsy. There's several different
accounts, and I have a podcaston it of serial killers who had severe
head injuries as children. And youknow, if you've listened to any of

(01:26:12):
that, that I had a severebrain injury when I was three years old.
I was hit by car, hadone hundred and seventy one hundred and
eighty stitches in my head. Backthen, forty nine years ago, we
didn't talk about concussions. You know, if you know anything about like the

(01:26:33):
football right now, you know andwrestling, many sports who have their players
who have continuous concussions. Now theyhave rules about that. You know,
if you get you know, oneyear out, if you get two,
you have there's more treatment. Andthen if you have three, you know,

(01:26:56):
typically your career is over. SoI mean, I know I have
a concussion at age three. Idon't know if I had any after that.
I mean, I did play sports, but I can't think of other
I can't think of any other episodeswhere I had another severe head injury.
However, I did have seizures,grandma seizures, and most of the time

(01:27:19):
it was related to high fevers.But you know, there could be a
connection there. I certainly believe thatit's true, especially with this information,
that head injuries, especially when you'reyounger, will change the development of your
brain. And if you are messingwith that frontal cortex and it is maldeveloped

(01:27:39):
in any way, shape or form, you're going to have some mental instabilities
and it can vary loads of things. You can have no self esteem,
you can have definitely have anger issues. Remember Abers study at NYU and the

(01:28:00):
attributional returning. It's just it justmakes sense that this really could have been,
you know, a contributor to theseviolent offenses. Gary Ridgeway was diagnosed
with a diffuse organic brain with diffuseorganic brain damage in the frontal low region

(01:28:21):
of the brain, as described byhis doctor. This kind of brain damage
is scattered and can be seen inindividuals who are chronically exposed to chemicals and
toxins, as experienced by Ridgeway beingchronically exposed to lead paint and other toxic
fumes from his work as a painter. There's no evidence of Ted Bundy experiencing

(01:28:42):
neurodevelopmental complications or other conditions affecting thebrain. Brain damage is suggested as a
factory contributing to aggressive behavior. Yes, this is This finding is in correlation
with laying in de Witt study,where they found that many serial killers had
some form of head injury or organicbrain abnormalities. They concluded by saying that
because of the neurological dysfunctions giving riseto seizures, serial killers act out during

(01:29:06):
periods of uncontrollable brain wave activity,further causing compulsive behaviors. That's that moment
that aber talks about this aggressive behaviorthat they have no control over, and
you have to teach them how tostop and wait a few seconds. To
allow the brain to think through whatis happening. Is this person a threat

(01:29:30):
to me? Is this person someonethat I need to fight off? Do
my fight or flight reflexes need tokeep in at this point and which one
is appropriate? You know? Soyou're you know, any kind of damage
in that frontal lobe, you're goingto have these characteristics that could occur.

(01:29:50):
Not everyone has that, but whenwe're talking about serial killers, it's a
very common characteristic or trait that theyhave. So we have to that has
to be a discussion. That hasto be something that we bring forward and
talk about head injuries, frontal lobegrowth or undergrowth, damage to the brain

(01:30:16):
in some areas. But it's interestingto me also because I had a serial
a serial kin. I had asevere head injury. But I have no
intention of being a serial killer.I am not a violent offender. I

(01:30:39):
don't have a temper per se.I'm very laid back, you know,
I don't fit. It didn't causeme to have these type of issues.
Is that because I had a lovingand supporting family who took care of me
and nurtured me, taught me empathy, helped me to learn and grow and

(01:31:05):
be productive. Was it because myenvironment changed that where it could have gone
either way. I don't know.Unfortunately I wasn't you know, there wasn't
a study going on that I wasinvolved in. But wow, wouldn't that
be a fantastic study, you know, I don't know that that would be

(01:31:28):
possible without well, it just wouldn'tbe possible because you can't do that to
people. You can't treat one personwhen you know they have a brain that,
when they have brain damage, andnot treat the other person to see
what the outcomes are. That's completelyillegal, unethical, and we would never
do that. But we can lookat we can look at information that we've

(01:31:50):
collected over the years and compare andcontrast that information and make logical and educated
conclusions. So the next part ofthis is discussion about the inner relationship between
factors. He approached this phenomenon withan open mind to search for knowledge relating

(01:32:11):
to the development of serial killers.And Burgess propose that the unsolve stressed feelings
and view of the world arising fromtrauma may cause the child to seek comfort
and fantasies revolving around themes of dominationand control, thus enabling them to develop
sexual violence. Stemming from sexual andaggressive fantasies. What we see is a
progression. Remember in these three particularcase studies, they don't just automatically just

(01:32:41):
get up one day and decide thatthey want to kill somebody. They gradually
work up to it. This isnot stimulating me as much as it was
before. I'm breaking in and I'mstealing things. It's not as exciting as
it was. How do I ampthat up? Let me torture somebody,
Let me rape somebody, Let memake them perform felatio. You know,

(01:33:02):
how do I make it more exciting? And they have to Every time has
to become more and more exciting andthrilling, and you get to killing.
And some people are never pushed tothe edge. Some people never would consider
killing, just like BTK wouldn't rapesomebody, but he would torture them and
bind them and kill them, buthe wouldn't rape them. It's it's hard

(01:33:31):
for there to be an explanation thatmakes sense about things like that. But
in his mind there was a fineline he would not cross. I'll do
all this other stuff, but Iwon't do that. The unresolved stress in
the lives of all three serial killersarose not only in childhood but also in
their adulthood. I agree with that. Moreover, serial killers seem to operate

(01:33:56):
cyclically, and, as evidenced bypreviously mentioned dated, presumably kill while they're
facing some kind of stress. Itis, as Ridgeway said, escapegoat it
is their release. It is theirblowing off steam. Some of us choose
to go run. Maybe we'll gorun this afternoon. Some people like to

(01:34:21):
go out back and shoot guns andhit targets. Some people like to sit
and read and just escape the worldthrough a book. Some people like to
cook, some people like to eat. We all have different coping mechanisms.
These people chose file it outbursts,dangerous lethal outbursts. What pushes them to

(01:34:51):
that point? What is it thatyou know? They need that continuous stimuli
to continue to increase each and everytime, you know. Bundy and Ridgeway
said that killing was a coping mechanism. It relieved their stress and it helped
them invent their frustrations and their rage. On the other hand, Ramirez turned

(01:35:14):
robbery and violently sexual murders into hiscareer. This studies data suggest that the
serial killers internalize their stress and traumaand externalize the symptoms as evidenced by their
actions. Remember when Ridgway said thathe would hire prostitutes just to talk to
them. What would have happened hadhe had someone in his life to talk

(01:35:36):
to, whether it be his motheror a close friend, a wife,
a partner of some kind, maybea therapist. You know, what if
he had had that in the beginning, would any of this have happened?
Again, we have no way ofknowing that, but I'm going to venture

(01:35:58):
to say, I'm going to saymy hypothesis of that would be yes,
we would see a difference. Yes, we would see him have maybe a
more positive outlet for his aggression andhis anger and his rage. You know,
maybe he would be directed into,you know, some kind of sport.

(01:36:20):
Maybe he would do karate or boxingor some way to take out his
frustrations in a positive way but alsoincreases his physical abilities. You know,
he felt like he was small,he felt like he was a whimp.
Maybe he goes to the gym andhe gets stronger and stronger and becomes more
mainly and doesn't feel wimpy anymore.All kinds of scenarios can play out in

(01:36:44):
our head, right, That's whyit's important for us to at least try
what if we had done that,could we have prevented these murders. In
order to relieve themselves, they canfelt elevated and went on with their lives.
When they were faced with more stressand were unable to cope in healthy

(01:37:05):
ways, they engaged in killing morepeople, wanting to feel the same or
a higher level of elevation. AsSimon and Ganangelo suggested, a serial killer's
need for stimulation increases of it asevidenced by an increase in the rate of
his or her killings, reflecting acompulsive and addictive pattern of behaviors. And

(01:37:28):
I'm going to add not only anincrease in the rate of the killings,
but an increase in this severity.In the the heinousness of the crime,
they usually get more and more andmore disturbing. For the most part,

(01:37:54):
the inner relationships between factors is explainedseparately for each serial killer because of different
relationships between factors and the role playedby each factor in the lives of each
serial killer. Bundy blamed his familyfor not preparing him well for failures.
Such was expressed by Bundy in relationto his felled Chinese studies, urban planning
studies, and simultaneously his first seriousrelationship. This exhibits a relationship between the

(01:38:18):
stress trauma and parent relationship pattern factors. Bundy reported being insecure about his physical
features after not being selected for basketballor baseball teams. He also said that
he did not have the support athome for school sports or any role models
to look up to. This associatesthe low self esteem factor with parent that's

(01:38:38):
Milly Kate if you can hear thatin the background. This associates the low
self esteem factor with parent relationships patternsin patterns factor. In one of his
quotes, Bundy also counted low selfesteem and lack of sense of fulfillment as
a stressor. Bundy's failure in hisrelationship and studies probably lead him to count

(01:39:00):
low self esteem as a stressor,thus linking the stress trauma and low self
esteem factors. This inner relationship canbe evidenced by Bundy's withdrawal from Chinese studies
after failing them. Unable to faceMarjorie and return the classes he failed in,

(01:39:20):
Bundy withdrew from school and as aresult of the above life events and
to blank and to blank and toquote let off steam, he engaged in
impulsive and compulsive thievery. Later inhis prison interviews, Bundy compared the items
he stole to the possessions and controlof his victims, so it escalated.

(01:39:42):
At first, it was just materialsthat he would steal, and then he
would actually kill the person and stealstill then and own their bodies. That's
how he felt about it, ashe said, as possessing like a potted

(01:40:03):
plant or a painting or a Porsche. Lastly, Bundy indicated that his failure
to control his life served as anadditional attribute for him committing such illegal and
immoral acts. Therefore, the abovementioned evidence linked the stress, trauma,
low self esteem, and power controlfactors for Ted Bundy. Kesner and mckenry's

(01:40:29):
findings are in correlation with Bundy's datain the belonging's loneliness and parent relationship patterns
factors, thus linking the three factors. Bundy reported that he and his mother
never spoke of any personal intimate mattersin his childhood, adolescent or adulthood years,
and then he never had role modelsat home to aid him in school.

(01:40:51):
You can see that data from thesethree serial killers completely proves his point.
That these indicators, that list ofindicators that he identified in this study,
there's a correlation between them. There'sa you know, maybe one serial

(01:41:15):
killer has this, one one serialkiller has that characteristic, but all of
these serial killers have one or moresimilar or same characteristics. So you know,
that's a really good list to helpus, you know, think about
It's like the aces, right.The more that are checked off on that

(01:41:39):
list, the more we see theopportunity for someone becoming a violent offender.
So this study for me, reallypulls out some new indicators, some different
indicators that he does prove in justthree case studies. They're definitely relevant,

(01:42:04):
they definitely interact with each other,and there are certain things that we can
glean from the information. Certainly,there's limitations to this study, and he
says that even though verbatim conversations forall three serial killers were found, it

(01:42:24):
was impossible to follow up on thequestions and ask for more details because they're
dead. Having the freedom, wellGary Ridgway is not dead. Having the
freedom to initiate questions would have helpedprovide better analysis, of course, it
would have. I mean, ifwe could sit down in a jail cell
and chat with these people and askthem more specific questions. We may or
may not get more answers, butif we do, that's just more data

(01:42:46):
to help us make better decisions.A second limitation steems from the fact that
the sources used were edited and arrangedfor publication by authors other than the killers.
Although he was mindful of I'm notadopting various author's biases and the ideology
of serial killing. The sources usedfor data collection seem to hold their author's

(01:43:09):
biases, and that's true. There'salways a bias. Remember we talk about
inherent bias earlier on an inherent biases, biases that we have that society gives
us. We don't question them untilwe are faced with someone asking us,
why do you feel this way.Once we're questioned about a bias, we
might consider why do I feel thisway? Do I have any evidence that

(01:43:31):
reinforce us why I feel this way? If I don't have any evidence,
let's start all over and see ifI can figure out what I really believe
about this person or this thing orthis theory. We all have bias,
and there's no way people can saythey're anti bias all day long. But
there's a bias about something. Itcan be as miniscule as your bias about

(01:43:55):
what kind of milky buy. Youwon't drink skim milk because you think it
takes horrible and you feel like it'snot really milk, but you'll drink two
percent because to you, that's that'sreally milk. When two percent is not
that different from one percent skim milk. There's literally a one percent difference.

(01:44:17):
But you have a personal bias againstthat, right, And some might say,
well, that's just a personal preference. It's a bias. Ooh,
I don't drink that. Owh Whywould you drink that? I don't think
that's real milk. It's more likewater. That's what my husband says.
Well, that's your belief, notmine. It's a bias. There may

(01:44:44):
be some events and theories that anauthor might have focused on more than others,
and some that may not have beenincorporated in the books, and based
on these biases. An attempt wasmade to overcome this problem by focusing on
the verbatim words of the killers.And we also have to look at contact
next. In what context were thesethings said? I think they're pretty black
and white. But again, itwould be nice to actually view the interviews,

(01:45:12):
watch the body language, see whatthat person was saying during that what
the context of the question was thatthey were being asked. All of those
are limitations, right, the smallsize and limited features of the sample service.
The third limitation, we're only talkingabout three serial killers in the scheme
of things here. Two were Caucasian, one was Hispanic, and there wasn't

(01:45:39):
any females discussed in this, SoI mean there could be there's much that
you can't really generalize this to somedegree. There's other studies we can add
to this and say, based onthis plethora, this data, this field
of data that we have, theseare characteristics that keep coming up over and

(01:45:59):
over and over and over again.We have two hundred and fifty studies that
have these same characteristics that can begeneralized. This one study alone cannot be
generalized. It does give us moreinformation, though it supports existing information and
perhaps puts some doubt on other othertypes of bias that we may have.

(01:46:29):
Right. A fourth and precautionary limitationrecognizes how the language and words used by
three serial killers might have multiple meaningsand interpretations. Interpreting and finding meaning in
the data in quotes has been theprime method of this thesis. It's that
grounded theory where he was coding.But there's always the possibility that I might

(01:46:50):
read that he might have read toomuch into the information or not enough.
Again, it's what he tried todo was be very embiased, was to
think through and be open minded.And he says he did his best to
not be biased towards data exhibiting existingtheories and focused more on interviews with the

(01:47:15):
three serial killers. So he waslooking at their actual words to come up
with these things, and that's howhe coded. So, you know,
I think this is a strong study. I think that he did a good
job in staying unbiased in looking attheir words and using their words. I
mean, that's why we saw theirquotes, you know, repeated a few
times. Those he used those twoto make some new and fresh assumptions,

(01:47:46):
and so I feel like he dida really good job in that regard.
I do think he still had somebias, and he has his right to
that because he is writing this andhe has the ability to make a determination
about his findings. He actually suggeststhat future research highlight adolescent and adult experiences

(01:48:12):
of serial killers in order to identifyrisk factors from these periods of development.
So not only is he saying,yes, let's look at the early childhood,
but he's also saying we need tolook at their adult experiences as well.
I'll agree with that. I'll agreewith that, what are the triggers?
How did these experiences contribute to theirdelinquency? Right, so he comes

(01:48:42):
out, he comes after this study. He has a few other suggestions,
one of course being to highlight adolescentand adulthood experiences, and he says that
this means approaching topologies and other theoriessurrounding the serial killing phenomenon as a continuum
and not definitive answers. Absolutely,absolutely true. There is no there are

(01:49:09):
no hard and fast rules here.That's what makes it so difficult, it
makes it so interesting. There areno two serial killers that are exactly the
same, and there never will be. Now, you may have some you
may have some people who act outthe same. They may do copycat killings
and those type of things, butthey have different life experiences. So you

(01:49:31):
can say, yep, this isexactly this is they're this kind of serial
killer, this is their norm,this is what they do, And you
can apply this to five hundred others. Never the case's never going to be
the case. It is a continuum. It is something that we will continue
to study because it's a phenomenon.It's different, it doesn't happen every day,

(01:49:55):
and we need to be able totake information and data that we collect
and use it for good, useit to prevent, you know, be
proactive and not reactive. Unfortunately,for years and years we have been reactive,
and reactive typically does not give yougreat results. So I applaud his

(01:50:20):
efforts here. I think that hedid a really good job in that,
and I feel like there was alot of information that I had either forgotten
or just didn't know. And Iappreciate that there's so many details about these
murders and details about their lives thatwe may not remember when we read,

(01:50:41):
if you read a lot of thesethings, or we just don't know,
which proves his point that everybody who'swriting about this stuff they have their own
bias. Maybe they left out piecesand parts. I read it in this
book, but it wasn't in thisbook. Or you know, this author
who interviewed them said this, butthis author who interviewed them did not get

(01:51:05):
the same answer. So which oneis right, They're both right. It
just depends on what day you're askingthat person and maybe the context of the
question. So I think he dida great job in that, and I
think he's spot on. So Ihope you enjoyed this study of this master's
thesis. We may do another onein the future if I find one that

(01:51:26):
is that has some interesting and goodinformation like this one. And then,
of course, remember that this isthe fourth installment, So if you've listened
to this one and didn't listen tothe other thor you really need to go
back and listen to those. Itmakes a lot more sense listening to it

(01:51:47):
sequentially. So I hope you enjoyedit, and I look forward to doing
another podcast next week and catching upwith you. Then, have a great day.