Bonus Episode - Starship Troopers - 1997 - Con Air - The Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Bunny Down, Bood, Bunny down, bunn to Bunny back in the box.

(00:23):
Wello, and welcome to conn Airthe podcast. I am one of
your hosts, Jay Cluten on thisshow myself my regular co host Mark Off
my flyaway through the ninety seven actionclassic con scene by scene. This is
an alternate bonus episode. This isa re release of a show from from
Mark's past, from his other podcast, Movies, Films and Flix on another

(00:44):
a difference, ninety seven action classicthat features far fewer cons in the air,
far fewer Steve Bushman's talking to possibledream girls, far fewer bunnies in
put back in boxes or not,and far more giant bugs and political metaphors.

(01:07):
That's right, it's Starship Troopers WolverHooven ninety seven action classic, sci
fi action classic. So I amnot on this episode. After this intro
you'll hear Mark talking to to Ericoff Mike, presumably some kind of relation
about this this film. This episodewas recorded in twenty twenty, mid pandemic,

(01:30):
mid lockdown, but still a veryfun and sailing show. So enjoy
listening to Mark and Eric talk aboutStarship Troopers. Hello, and welcome to

(02:07):
Movies films and flicks. I amMark Hoffmeyer and joining me is Eric Rico
Hoffmeyer. How's your how's your day? Ben? It's been great. I
killed twelve bugs before lunch. Eversince we saw this movie in ninety seven,
you've been just smushing. You don'tup to like fifty thousand bugs now
have an averaging about forty seven aday for the last thirty years. Man,

(02:29):
that's crazy. So how many Ican't do the math on that.
That's a lot. Yeah, it'snot enough. I'm not gonna stop since
they're all dead. We never,we didn't, We've never until today picked
up on the fascist undertones of thisfilm. We just took this as straight
up bug smashing. Never my seventeenyear old bringing when I saw this,
which is overloaded with machine guns andshower scenes and all kinds of mayhem.

(02:53):
And then I went and read thebook, which was completely different from the
movie. And then I hadn't watchedit more than twenty years, and it
pops up on Netflix, and youknow, we're all watching a lot more
TV these days, Marvel, soI'm like, let's watch this again and
see if it holds up. Andit was a very different viewing experience watching
Starship Troopers the second time decades later. I remember too, you had the

(03:15):
paperback of that book. I did. I saw the movie that I would
have bought the book. And it'svery misleading too, because it's a completely
different film. I mean, Verehovenhe didn't mess around. He did not
want to mess around with what wasin that book. It's a completely different
experience. No way the movie isis inspired by the book. The movie
is really not much to do itwith the book at all. In fact,

(03:37):
I was reading or watching an interviewwith Verhoeven and he couldn't even get
through the whole book. He tried, he tried reading it. He's like,
forget this. I'm gonna do whatI want. If vere Hooven doesn't
have time for that, I mean, you know he So they started writing
the script and ninety one. Itwas a long process, and by the
time they got to it, hehad done over four thousand oh man,

(03:58):
what's the word he had done?He four thousand crap, it's not coming
to be four thousand storyboard frames forthis. And in the script notes he
had jots everywhere. I mean,this guy he didn't eat. As soon
as he got into this script.He just started like like writing and planning
and making this the best way possible. And you know they didn't even want
to make it the studio. Itbounced around the studios and by the time

(04:21):
they finally made it, it's becausehe took a day off from Showgirls and
he got with Phil Tippett, theguy who won an Academy Award for Jurassic
Park, worked on the at eightiesand Empire strikes Back the best in the
business, And they shot a dayone day test where an Olympic gymnast was
being chased by a bug and thenhe killed the bug and the studio was

(04:41):
impressed, so then they put himin the pre pro and then that's when
the movie happened. That's amazing.I had no idea. I knew that
the original script was called bug Hunton Outpost nine. That was the official
script before it went to Verehoven,But that's amazing. Yeah, they wanted
it to be like a Zulu type, like a siege thriller where these people
were just getting smoshed by bugs.Yeah, that's what the battle was when

(05:05):
they went to the distress call wasbased on the Zulu movie in South Africa.
I think the movie was filmed inthe sixties. Yeah, and he
Beverehoeven wanted it just to look likethat where they it's just won against many
and the bugs just completely outnumber them. I mean, that's such a I
gotta tell you. So this wasme ninety seven. Phil Tippett designed.

(05:25):
He did a lot of the likeearly CGI, then you have then you
have Amalgamated Dynamics. They did Tremorsand nine. You watched Tremors now and
that movie has an aged day justtype in Tremors miniatures right now, they
still look beautiful. And then whatalso draw me in. I don't know
if you noticed this two Eric,but in ninety seven this movie was really
violent. So we had you andI grew up on die Hard, right,

(05:46):
we watched die Hard when we weretwelve. We watched ten Probably we
watched pulp fiction when we were heardtwelve were still working to figure out how
that happened. You were fourteen,I guess at the time. But we
were res of Our Dogs. Idon't know if you remember this, man,
Remember when I watched Rest of OurDogs and I was like, Tan,
I'm like, I'm gonna stop watchingR rated movies for a while and
then let Lesha Weapon two came outand I'm like, well, I kick
that kick that habit, and Iwent to watch Let Me Fill a Weapon

(06:10):
two. But like Cliffhangers, wewere kind of used to that. But
this movie, he Ripped Apart,Ripped by Limb by Limb on this movie
he was was kind of a differenttype of approach to violence in the nineties.
When that guy got shot in thehead when he took his helmet off,
I mean that that was so brutal. And Kevin Yeager did it.
And he's the guy who developed Chuckyfor Child's Play, and he worked on

(06:30):
Nightmare in Elm Street three or anight yarn Elm Street, all the gags,
and one of my favorite movies,Sleepy Hollow. Like this dude.
This movie had Verehoven who was hot. I mean he had he had RoboCop,
he had total recall, he hadbasic instinct. Now, Showgirls didn't
do. Showgirls was a classic likeNC seventeen flop, but you watch it
now and you see what he's goingfor. But this was a this I

(06:51):
love movies like this, like StarshipTroopers and The Happening That these are movies
that only getting made when like TheLone Ranger or Evan Almighty, these are
movies that only get made when adirector has so much power and so much
success that he gets basically a blankcheck to make a stroke of luck.
I mean, I saw an interviewwhere he said the studio had a revolving

(07:14):
door of executives for the fourteen tosixteen months they're filming this, So the
executives weren't around long enough to say, what are you doing that? That's
the Nazi flag, but that's youknow, how did you do this?
So they were around long enough,so it just happened at the right time
and the Sony Pictures history, andso you're an executive and you're thinking yourself,

(07:39):
all right, I got Paul Verehoven, with Phil Tippett and and Vic
Armstrong, the guy who did allthe stunts on Raiders A Lost Arc and
all one hundred million dollars one hundredmillion dollars. You're probably thinking, I'm
okay, right, I got Verehoven, I got Phil Tippett, I have
Vic Armstrong, I have Kevin Yeager, I have basically I have all the
talent world on this movie, andthey're they're fine. Phil tippet. He

(08:01):
did Drastic Park. We love them's, let's keep them happy. So I'm
just worried about my own job.Then they get fired, and then the
same person thinks that. So,Eric, you're the studio exact, You're
Sony Studio exact. You see thismovie for the first time. What just
happened? What am I watching rightnow is probably my reaction to the movie.
And you're thinking, I lost myjob. I just started here and

(08:22):
I lost my job. I'd evenfun this three years ago, and now
I'm gonna lose my job because ofwell, luckily you could say I just
came in. I had nothing todo with this movie whatsoever. They did
it. But but I think,I think this is fair man. So
we'll get this in a little bit. But this movie, like for you
and I when we were fifteen andseventeen, this was guns, guts,

(08:46):
blood, just swear words. Itwas. It was twenty nine year old
actors playing teenagers, which is alittle odd and just the state of the
arts, factual effects and gore,and you connect with it. You connect
with it as as a teenager.Sure you, I mean, listen,
though I remember when I was fifteen, though I saw mph in his Nazi
regalia, and I knew enough thenat the time to go, he's a

(09:09):
Nazi regalia even when else fifteen,I kind of really yeah, I knew
it. I was like, thisis because you remember like during this time,
Oh no, because it was likeDougie Howser. All like I see
was Dougie Howser. I could notsee the costume at the time. Yeah,
I guess you're right. I get. But for some reason that I
just I was like, that's somethingdoesn't seem right here, exactly like watching

(09:31):
that one kid go I'm doing mypart and he smiles, and the very
heightened performances when he's on video withwhen Rico's on video with m A.
Carmen and everyone's heightened, Like ah, it's a very heightened thing. So
you're kind of thinking. And it'svery brightly lit. I mean, this
movie is incredibly gory and almost bleak, and at the end it doesn't even

(09:56):
really end, but it looks sopretty and glossy, and there's always it's
a very weird experience, but Ijust remember going gun fights to competitions,
like heads popping off like nothing.I loved it. Yeah, I mean,
it's amazing how when you focus onone thing, you can't see everything
else. Like there's a famous psychologyexperiment where this group of basketball players are

(10:16):
passing a ball back and forth fromone another, and in the psychology experiment,
they tell the viewer, Okay,watch the ball, see how many
times the ball is passed to eachbasketball player and count. Now, you
go through the exercise, you watch, and you count the number of passes,
and after the end, they askyou, did you see the giant
gorilla walk through the center of thisbasketball team bang its chest and walk away,

(10:39):
And you're like, no, Icouldn't see it because I was so
focused on the basketball changing that Ididn't see this giant gorilla walking through the
action. And then they play itagain and then you see it because you're
starting to focus on it, andthat's all you see now is the gorilla
in the middle. So it's justsuch an interesting mental trick that you're focusing
on one thing and you completely misseverything else happening because you're so tuned into

(11:03):
that storyline. Like now, whenI look at it and I just turned
forty and I'm looking at it,I'm completely creeped out by the do you
want to learn more? Do youwant to know more? I'm creeked out
by how they were going to televisethe execution of the guy convicted for murder.
I'm creeked out about these little kidsin a frenzy states squishing the bugs.
It's amazing how that now is whatI see more than the actual storyline,

(11:26):
because that's what I'm looking at laterin life. And does's dogged pursuit
of Johnny Rico. I think that'sbrilliant because when I watched it for a
second time, I was still astorn up when Diz died as I was
when I was seventeen. And Ithink because Bearhoven is so smart, He's
tapping into male primal instinct that youwant a beautiful partner chasing after you.

(11:48):
He want this beautiful woman to wantyou unconditionally, and it just plays into
our male egos so hard that itreally really hurts. Like it was way
worse than watching like Trinity die.Serready other movie where a love interest passes
away, but that one hit hard. I mean, he wrote that character
or such an art as I don'tknow, maybe this is the right word,

(12:09):
but archetype or or stereotype asque character, but I also kind of like
that he kind of made her abadass, and I also liked the people
also talked about the gender reversal wherewhere Carmen is the pilot and she becomes
a successful one and she's like,all right, Rico, I've had enough.
Like that's a cool little I likehow he does that. He's subvert
your expectations in a lot of ways, but this movie has like he went

(12:33):
into this movie though, knowing thatI got blood and guts and all these
things. So not only was hemaking a sly little satire like the cinematographer
this movie, No, Phil Tippetttold Verehoven that he made the world's most
expensive independent film, but he wasalso adding he's also very good with total
recall and basic instinct in rob RoboCop. Even when he's thrown in satire or

(12:56):
something smart, he's also blowing upstuff and he's yeah, yeah, agreed.
The part with Denise Richards, Like, I mean, how many times
has this played out? Millions oftimes every year? When you have a
high school sweetheart and you go offto college and you slowly can drift apart
because one person wants to do onething because they you know, they set
their heart on or their dreams.It's a perfectly rational decision that Denise Richard's

(13:20):
character made. She's following her careerand leaving her high school sweetheart. That's
something that repeats itself in every highschool across America all the time. So
the fact that we would dislike herfor is extremely unfair. But I remember
when I watched This Is seventeen,I was like, Oh, she's heartless
and she's awful. But then nowI'm like, you know, I get
it, you get to fly goodfor you, And watching the Honest trailer,

(13:41):
they were saying that she would.I mean, there's a lot of
funny stuff in the Honest trailer,but they were saying that she's the worst.
And I'm kind of thinking, there'sgonna be a pilot flying a massive
tanker through Like that's that's a Idon't know, it's a pretty good gig.
You can do a lot worse thanher character. Yeah, sure,
but I kind of I like that. But it's another interesting thing about what

(14:03):
Verehoven's movies do so well. IsI mean when I watched Total Recall when
I was a kid, I neverlooked at it the same the way I
looked at it now, Like whenI watched RoboCop, I thought I was
like, these performances really heightened andthis is all odd. But now you
watch it now and you're like,oh, so he knows how to I
think he knows how to appeal tofifteen year olds, but he also knows
how to appeal to adults. ButI gotta tell you, this movie had

(14:26):
a lot of rotten reviews. Criticsdid not really enjoy it. Some liked
it, some did, but Ireally think some critics were just hot off
of the hatred of show Girls becausein that movie, Verehoven swung and missed.
He really did. I don't knowif you've ever watched a trailer for
to the movie or clips. Imean, the performances are so heightened in
it that a lot of people justwere like, what am I I don't

(14:48):
get it. I hate it.I hate this movie. So I wonder
if people went into Starship Troopers withtheir they're kind of just ready to hate
it because of the I don't knowif you noticed this, but remember when
and like Shamalan was on top ofthe world and then he kind of showed
some cracks with the village and alittle bit with signs. But then when
his next movie came out, Ladyin the Water, everyone just hated him.

(15:09):
It was knives out. People hatedhim. There's like, oh,
you gave me room to hate.I've noticed that when these directors make these
good movies and they make one that'snot so good, then you open up
the door a little bit, andif their next one's not that great,
they bomb them on that. Soeven watching Like, if I watched it
now as a movie critic and I'venever seen it, I'd give this movie

(15:30):
a positive review. I'd be onits wavelength. Yeah. I actually went
back and looked at the movie reviewsfrom when it came out, and that
Los Angeles Times Reporter said it wasa jaw dropping experience so rigorously one dimensional
and free from even the pretense ofintelligence, it's hard not to be astonished
and even mesmerized by what is onthe screen. They missed it so hard,

(15:54):
I mean it was crazy. Imean even Roger Ebert, who we
both love, he calls it themost violent kitty movie every ever made.
Because yeah, I think I thinkwhen you watch the movie, you fall
into one of four quadrants. Imean, I think we could totally we
could totally uh swap this. Wecan we can flow charted out. Or
you either think you look at itand you love it and you're like kill

(16:15):
bugs good yeah, or you watchit and you're like, oh, I
get it, I see the doublenarrative, I see what's going on here.
Or you can watch it and belike, what is this B movie?
Nonsense? And then in the fourthquadrant, I think a lot of
people are terrified, like this iscrazy fascist with all this military destruction and

(16:36):
genocide. This is kind of frightening. And it's amazing how you can fall
into any one quadrant when you whenyou watch this movie. Like when I
was seventeen, I was like,yeah, let's go this is a great
action movie. Now at forty,I'm like, Okay, I get it.
I respect the double narrative. Butit's it's amazing how you just fall
into one of these four ways ofinterpreting this movie. Do you think that's

(16:56):
why so some movies we were talkingabout this. Our most popular episode is
total Recall. For all of ourepisodes, almost three hundred episodes, it's
total Recall. And I think thatwas a movie that came out and everyone
understood it. Critics, audiences,they also went, this is great,
this is this is a movie,and there's enough. You're a kid,

(17:17):
you love it. You're an adult, you love it. You're a critic,
you love it. Your studio headyou love it. You're just you're
on it. And that's why it'sso popular. Do you think that's my
storship? Troopers? It has avery loyal following who are like, you
don't get the fascism, man,it's fascism. And then you get the
people who love it because bug justkill them bugs. I don't know that
accent. But but there's also peoplewho despise it. So I think that's

(17:38):
what's kept it from being It's acult classic, but it's not a it's
not like a universal class beloved film. If that makes it, I think
so. I mean, our biasesare so strong. It's like we see
where we're we have that bias atIt's it's amazing how you could go into
a movie and then come out onfour different corners of how it is.

(18:02):
And the fact that it's so complicated, and the fact that it's where people
are just now getting it now iswhy I think it's made this whole renaissance
lately. Like if you google StarshipTroopers right now in the last few months,
you'll see tons of results and screeningsand notes that like, yeah,
we were wrong about this, Imean even honest. Trailers came out recently
with a hilarious skit about Starship Troopersand it actually brought back Casper van Dean

(18:26):
to see some voiceovers, which wasgreat this movie though, So I did
Back to the Future. I broughtmy friend Nile and from Korea. The
researching Back the Future was overwhelming.There was I bought a book to read
about it. I went on theIMDb page I to read all the trivia
and it was never ending, neverending trivia. And the same as for

(18:48):
this. There's a book about themaking of it. There are like there's
two there's two commentaries on the BluRay endless making of documentaries. There's twenty
minute documentaries about its fascist undertones.At the million a million people have listened
to countless Q and A's retrospectives.There's just so much. It overwhelmed me
a little bit. And I haveso many notes I'm not going to use

(19:11):
four percent of them, but it'sI thought you brought some interesting. So,
like when I was whatever, whenI was working on my masters at
Florida State, I found a thingcalled social judgment theory, which I thought
was really interesting to me. Andit's basically, people have latitudes of rejection
and acceptance when towards they're like so, you know, like let's say we

(19:37):
look at one way really strongly,we see something in the opposite, We're
going to reject it immediately because that'sour latitude of rejection, like confirmation bias.
Yeah, exactly what we want asconfirmation bias is while we stick to
our own echo chambers exactly. Andit's that I think that's what keeps a
lot of people in those echo chambersbecause they have such strong latitudes of rejection
and acceptance. So if you are, it's but it's interesting on this because

(20:00):
all right, you go into StarshipTroopers and you are a gung ho military
nothing wrong with it. You seeStarship Troopers and you're like, yes,
you're nineteen years old and go,yes, this is my movie. But
you're also a nineteen year old filmsnob who knows Verhoeven, and you're very
in tune with certain things, andyou pick up on the fascist undertones and
no one gets it. You're goingto be obsessed with this movie. So

(20:22):
we have two holdly different crowds obsessedwith it because of what their latitudes of
rejection acceptance are. Some people acceptit because other people missed it. You
don't get it, man. There'sthe counterculture of it. But then there's
also the people who love it.It's really interesting. I would add a
third because I from reading this andknowing people in the military, that a

(20:44):
lot of this is it's like alove letter to the trigger pollers, like
the people down there in the dirtgetting the job done, not afraid putting
their lives in the line. Imean, if you talk to any army
infantry men, they're gonna love it. They're not gonna love it because they're
just killing bugs, but because itfocuses on someone who's down in the mud
doing the dirty work. So yeah, I think there's also an addition to

(21:07):
what you said that having that experienceidentify with what's going on as well.
Oh no, absolutely, just havingthat experience. I just love how you
could be, you know. Ilove it because it's just about being on
the ground. It's about being atroop. A trooper but other people will
go, well, most people missedit, so I love it. It's
really there's not ironic. Yeah,I love because of being ironic or or

(21:29):
a contrarian. But how many peoplehave not many people have those two groups
that love it, if that makessense. Not many people have walked that
that line for the movie. Andthat's something really interesting about it is how
but very Hovan's always done that.He made this movie l It's hard to
explain, but we talked about onthe podcast. But a lot of people

(21:49):
he also triggered a lot of peopleon that one, not like in a
bad way because a character didn't actthe way that people are conditioned to characters
acting on the screen. So shegot an Academy Award nomination, Isabel Hupera
for her role in Verehoven's latest movie. But a lot of people were hated
it because that's not they're not usedto that. Does that make sense?
Yeah, you know, Starship Huberswas hated in Germany and Italy when it

(22:12):
came out. It struck too closeto home because it resembled their fascist societies
of the thirties. They hated it. Oh, I could totally see that.
Yeah, I listened to this reallyfun. Did you did you hear
that on the Verehoven Uh? Caspervan Dean, I think there was a
thirty minute interview with them talking aboutthe movie. Yeah, I saw it.

(22:33):
I loved it. Yeah, he'ssuch a character, and I think
I think Van Den I don't knoweverybody in this movie, though they all
put in really good performances. Ithink I think they cast the perfect You
know what else, I think it'sreally helped this movie is by casting.
So they didn't want to get alot of A listers. They didn't get
teenagers, so they cast a lotof TV actors, so they got Casper

(22:56):
Van Deeine Dean, amerd and RichardJake Busey mph was known, but he
wasn't known in the movies. Thenyou also had like Seth Gilliam, Patrick
Muldoon. I mean, ironside ofpeople know he keeps losing arms in Verehoven
movies. He lost his arm inthis one day. We didn't see it.
But when I think about this movie, I don't think of Diana Meyer.
I think of Diz. I thinkof Johnny Rico. So I love

(23:17):
it when you watch these movies sometimesand you're able to as much as I
love the Mission Impossible movies, andthey're getting better and better. That's Tom
Cruise on screen, that's not EthanHunt. But in Starship Troopers, it's
it's Ace, and it's Johnny andit's and it's Diz on the floor killing
bugs and you they they're the characters, if that makes sense, And I
think, yeah, totally, AndI think it was a wise move to

(23:40):
to cast these these actors that wererelatively unknown because they went all in.
I mean, they were all inthe role too. I mean you could
tell they were completely committed to this. And in that interview you mentioned with
Verehoven and Casper van Deen, Caspermade a couple of comments, like he
questioned some of the direction he gotfrom Hooven, but their hope was like,

(24:00):
yeah, just do it, justdo it, trust me, just
go for it, even though itseems a little weird and they didn't understand
it at the time. So Ithink he was casting. The casting these
up and comers or these relatively unknownsenabled Dairhopeen to give him to buy in
and really go for it, eventhough he didn't quite understand what he was
going for. And that's just nextlevel type direction. And you know what

(24:22):
I kind of love too is youcan see how times change. So in
this movie, Jake Busey had aheat stroke and he had to They were
shooting in one hundred degree weather outin Wyoming. I mean, people were
dropping like flies. They had fortypound armor in this. I mean the
stats on this movie of what theymade are just insane. But people were
dropping in But I think everyone hungin there because he was the first person

(24:42):
on set Therehoven. He was thefirst and last person on set every day.
So you're in one hundred degree weatherand you're hot and your heat stroke,
but Dare Hope's out there barking likea dog to get you to react.
You're kind of thinking, I'm gonnakeep doing this movie. So yeah,
well what's really interesting. Sorry,he went out to do hollow Man
after this, and hollow Man isa movie that he hates. Verehoven said

(25:03):
that thirty other people could have directedthat movie. It's not it's not.
So we covered on the pod too, and it's not a Verehoven film.
It's not. It's it's generic oneoh one. But on the making of
documentary of it, you had JoshBroland just insulting Verehoven kind of saying he's
like an autistic guy. On set, you have just people kind of going,
yeah, it is what it is. And the movie got an Oscar

(25:25):
nomination for special effects. But youwhen he was in his heyday, people
would go to Wyoming for that kindof weather and and and get heat stoke
because of him. But when helost it a little bit, you could
tell his crew wasn't as into hollowMan as much. So it's interesting how
it is. It's you watch he'sbehind the scenes documentaries, and it's really
interesting to see how he had madesome like some stone cold classics, but

(25:48):
just how the attitude had towards himhad changed because he wasn't on such a
hit streak. No, they juststopped buying into it. Yeah stop,
Yeah, Like, maybe this guyisn't as big of a genius as we
thought. He was along those linesand Shamalan's twists were the greatest thing on
the planet and then everyone hated him. Yeah, and he had to go
to almost indie level to regain hisstature in the industry. He did The

(26:12):
Devil, I mean Devil was asan epic rebound. It's one of the
best rebounds I think and directors evermade in the last twenty years. Well,
he produced that, and so director, he produced it. Oh my
bad, correct the doubts who didas above, so below. But he
came back with the Visit, andthat's a great comeback because it was like
a four million dollar movie and andit had it hit hard and there was

(26:34):
a success. And then that ledto Split, which punched everyone in the
face. Everyone loved that. Sohe just went back to his roots and
then people started loving him again.It's it's and then that's the same thing
that happened with Verhope. And heleft and shot a movie in Halland called
Black Book, and everyone just went, oh, he's back. It's like
he never left. He just hejust I guess I had to leave because

(26:56):
I guess the system at the timeafter some duds, he couldn't make movies
that he wanted anymore with those budgets. Does that make sense. Yeah,
So he went back to Holland.Yeah, why why, I'll just go
back to being a big fish ina small pond. And so I could
do whatever I want. Give me, give me twenty million dollars and I'll
make my movie. And then hemade two and now he like l was
Oscar nominated and it brought everyone loveshim now because the same thing with m

(27:18):
Night. You make these massive blockbusters. But I guess but this movie now,
I kind of like you said,I love that the life. You
know, it's interesting that Netflix duringthis time the second life that it's brought
to movies. So so Lockout hasgotten a second life because of this this
pandemic. Right now, Jupiter issending is getting reevaluated. I've always loved

(27:41):
it, We've always loved it onthis pod, but it's in Starship Troopers
now is becoming like, holy crap, did you know that? Oh my
gosh. And that's the power honesttrailers has. So it's really cool that
it's it's getting it's it's due Iwould say, due popularity. Right.
Yeah. Even so, I mentionedto a few co workers and friends it's
like, hey, you know,I'm watching Starship Troopers and preparing for this

(28:03):
podcast and they're like, oh,that movie was awful. I'm like,
when was the last time you sawit? They're like, I don't know,
twenty years ago? What, trustme, trust me watch it again.
It's kind of like I harkened ittoo. If you have a bad
experience and Arby's twenty years ago,and then you're like, I'm never going
back to Arby's. You know.It's like if you have that bad experience

(28:23):
with a consumer brand, you don'tgo back. But like, that's what
I think is happened here. Peopleoften had a bad experience with the movie.
They didn't understand it. They fellinto the W twof quadrant that I
mentioned, like what is this?And then they wrote it off. But
yeah, it's a great point.How it's back and it's one hell of
a watch right now while everyone's stillstaying indoors a lot of time. Yeah,

(28:47):
it's m oh I was gonna sayabout that. It's I had a
great point. Oh and also okay, so in nineteen sixty Alfred Hitchcock made
Psycho and he could have shot itin color, but he chose to shoot
it in in black and white,so that everyone's like, what is this
old time? He did? Andthen when the kill happens, everyone just
loses their minds. So he lulledthem into a sense of old fashioned Oh,

(29:10):
I'm not what this movie isn't hip, And then when the kill happens.
People just went, oh my gosh, like they didn't they got lulled
into that kill. Does that makesense? So in this one is the
opposite. Yeah. Do you thinkhe filmed it so bright and so cheery
and so some of the performances areso over the top that people just took
it at But you also have toas a director, you know, people

(29:33):
are going to take this movie atsurface level. Absolutely, It's exactly why
he did. He had this facadeof these beautiful people, this bright environment,
all these sexy planes, so youdon't realize that you're caught into this
militaristic society that may or may nightnot be you know, the right way
to move forward. You know,violence is the answer from Ironside, Michael

(29:56):
Ironside when he says that, AndI love how Ironside had his arms gone
Rue McClanahan as the biology teacher wasblind. Then the guy that said more
people for the meat grinder, hedidn't have an arm. So all these
people who were who were up inthe world were missing something or had been
injured or like there are some thingsthat that uh that stuck out to me,
Like every time that Rico got promotedwas when someone died, and he

(30:18):
was always like, yes, died, Yeah, we got to open it
for a corporal. You want it? Yeah, I mean smile and then
sergeant, yeah, lieutenant, I'lltake it until I die. You find
every time someone died he smiled andwas happy about taking that rule. I
think probably my favorite part of themovie when he was about to shoot the

(30:40):
nuke into the bug hole and ashe as he was aiming, as he
was running back, he slaps Ricoin the head and then like Rico fires
as his head was kind of likeoff to the side. I figured he
slapped in the head, So howdid he make that shot if he busy
just slapped him in this so hefired it not even looking through the scope.

(31:02):
I saw I noticed that. Ithought. I didn't even I never
even saw that. Oh saw,Like, how did you shoot that perfectly?
I forget a hit in the sideof the head. Oh that's funny.
But man, I like you buyBetween this and Frighteners, I feel
bad they didn't do more because Iliked him in this in that movie.
Dude, Yeah, you know whodo you think? Whose idea was it

(31:23):
for him to play the violin?So I know he had to ben Verehoven
because he had to learn it beforethey started shooting. Because that violin scene,
it stole the scene in both thetimes he played. When they were
in the bunk the barracks, whenRico was trying to talk to Denise Richards
and sender a note, you gotJake Busey playing the violin, and it

(31:45):
just added this element of weirdness toit. But then they had the party
after they won the battle against thebugs, and they're all dancing to Jake
Busey playing the violin, and thenRico wouldn't have been able to dance with
Diz if he had not played theviolin. And then that violin plays,
like whose idea was to have that? To me, that little piece,

(32:06):
that little extra was brilliant. AndI don't think it was in hind lines.
I haven't. What do you rememberthat from the book? I don't.
I don't, but that, Yeah, it's a good It's a weird
touch too, That's why I loveit. Like a violin, it's right.
Have you ever seen that. I'venever, like, maybe an accordion,
but I've never seen a violins inthe background of some cool dude who
just blew up a bug playing it. Yeah, and it's a juxtaposition in

(32:28):
itself, like all these high testosteronepeople and then a dude playing a violin.
I love it so much. Ithink if they would have stuck with
the original book too, with stufflike the bounce where people can bounce up
in the air and shoot the bugsfrom the top, and they had rocket
launchers and they had more powerful guns, and then they had the power armor,
I think they would have lost alittle something on this. I think

(32:50):
that adds more to Verehoven. Imean, at the end they win,
they get the brain bug, andthey're torturing at the end, but then
they just go, all right,we're going to do more. We're gonna
kill more. We're not even doneyet. We'll see it later. The
movie's over it, so you haveno But I liked, like you said,
the visceral nature of it, thebeing attacked, the shooting seven thousand
bullets into one of those bugs.Well, I got to take the closing

(33:14):
line of the movie to your pointis they'll keep fighting and they'll win.
After that was the closing line.They're just gonna keep fighting in this militaristic
society. And I love it too. I'm here. I want to see
what you think about this. WhereLike people have drawn comparisons to World War
Two when they dropped all the peopleoff on Omaha Beach and the close cu
clusters of people, and a lotof people have said that the war tactics

(33:37):
were terrible in this because Lunger notLunger, and Hoping. Hoping didn't want
um. He didn't want like slickships. He wanted gigantic lumbering ships that
when the bugs shot their butt bombsout of them, they got hit.
So when these because these ships hadno did they didn't really have a reason

(33:57):
to be so separated. They couldhave really lined up in different areas and
drop those little ships off to gofly down to Earth. So they stayed
together. I mean it makes itmore exciting. But it seems like they
have infinite supplies of people signing upbecause you have to become what a soldier,
to become a citizen, to youknow, have kids, or have
money or to have this or thator the other. And so you have
you have all these ships they justsend people down to Earth with just they

(34:22):
have. They have nukes, man, they have interstellar travel, they have
they can blow up asteroids in theair. Asteroids are huge, and it's
a it's a really interesting thing.Or maybe they're just drawing parallels to the
eighties when you know, you hadthe Russians going into Afghanistan in the caves
and so they had the better technology, but it was such a close,
tight war. I don't know,But what do you think about the tactics

(34:44):
in this We're not politicians, butyou know, the tactics were god awful.
I mean, I think like theflying in close formation. There are
parts where all the infantrymen were standingin a circle, all firing towards the
middle at the bugs, not worriedabout any crossfire whatsoever. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. You had peopleyou're walking and you had people like

(35:07):
firing over the heads of other people. It's like, I'm like, military
audiences are are very fickle, Ithink, and when it comes to movies,
because you can't divorce the fiction fromThat's not how they would normally do
it. But the way that theydid that was awful. The fact that
you just use bullets not lasers isunbelievable. But I think that for one,

(35:29):
just having machine guns rather than somekind of insecticide or these bugs well,
it was just when if you've everfired a machine gun, it's exhilarating
when you just let loose on agun. It is one of the most
exhilarating things you could ever feel inyour life. The sound, the way
you look with this gun shaking,And I think he was going for that,
that testosterone, you know, andthat anger of like firing at these

(35:52):
bugs with with your weapon. It'sthat kind of makes it more visceral than
if you had a laser from likefour miles away. So I think that's
why he did it that way.Do you think it's also about just sending
troops in and we don't really care, We're just going to keep sending them
in. Do you think that wasa little bit or no? Yeah,
I think they lost sight of humanitya little bit. We're just going to
send them in. They're gonna die, you know. And then even their

(36:15):
values were about dying, Like Ithink they made it the point. And
this was in the book too,where the one guy got picked up by
the bug and instead of shooting atthe bug, that killed the guy.
Yeah, Like I expect that thatwas their their perverted value system where we're
like, we're going to kill eachother before the enemy can kill us.
So it was this really strange wayof thinking. But I also I also

(36:37):
think that the tactics were just sofar in the back of his mind.
He wasn't worried about him because tohim, I think in the book too,
the bugs were just some kind ofmalevolent force out there. It could
have been bugs, it could havebeen aliens, it could have been whatever
type of enemy out there, andit wouldn't have mattered. But yeah,
they had no business flying that closeto each other with those giganic ships.
I mean, it was idiotic.But also, like you and I have

(37:02):
wrestled in high school, we haveyou know, I used to box.
You can't show the real technical wrestlingon it's boring. It's some of these
wrestling matches. So you gotta yougotta Beverly Hillbillies it up. You gotta
have some crazy stuff or I don'tknow, you just gotta he understood that,
you know what's interesting. This isa complete aside. But I was

(37:22):
watching a movie the other day where, Okay, so I love I love
the John Wick films, and Ilove this new Charlie Starren where she's an
immortal the Old Guard. But theythere's these moments where they're just so tactical
and they're switching guns and they're swappingaround and they're moving and it looks great.
It's a ballet, but I dosometimes miss the chaos of the raid

(37:46):
or the night comes for us.I love I like seeing this tactician.
I like that, but there's alsosomething in me that just is liking the
random violence of die Hard. AndI don't know so I us if you're
going full tactics and you know thesepeople wouldn't just running each other like that,
but you also have the full tactics, and who knows, does that

(38:07):
take it out of it? Doesthat not make it as visceral. It's
a good point either you're all inor all out. Social Trooper wasn't even
they weren't even worried about tactics.I think that's a smart move because because
people are gonna see unless you goto like the top level, like a
like a American sniper or one arethose what was the word Mark Wahlberg,

(38:27):
Gonaga shooter or the true story right, Lone survivor, Yeah, lone survivor
where they went to this boot campwith military professionals for several weeks to get
the movements down unless you're gonna goall in and the tactics. Having that
middle area, it's just kind ofman, you know, it's because you're
not really good at anythings, youmight as well make it gaudy, got

(38:50):
it? No, no, no, that makes a lot of sense.
And I'm not I'm not hating onWick. I love what Keyanu Reeves can
do on set. I mean,what Keanu Reeves does in that movie is
is unbelievable. Chad Seleski and everything, but I guess just ordinated and strong.
I mean, it takes a lotof physical ability to do what he
does, and it is definitely impressive. But my favorite parts of those movies

(39:12):
are on the third one when hefights the two villains from Rade one and
two, and then he goes andfights to Costcus from Only the Strong at
the end of three. Yeah,it's great, Yeah, I love Yeah,
I love those parts with the kindof improv esque. Now it's not
improv. They're highly choreographed and they'regreat fighters, but it's more it's more

(39:34):
of a it's more of a wildcard for me and how those fights will
progress rather than move left right tactics. Like, I'm not hating on that.
I did love that Charlie Starren newmovie. I love. I think
it's great. And the director sheactually did love in Basketball. I love
that movie, and so I'm veryhappy that she just directed a major ten
bull action movie. But I likethe chaotic of it. That's when that's

(39:55):
those are my favorite action scenes,the kind of chaos that gets created.
So I think it's good that theydidn't just go overly tactician, like we
used exact tactics during this attack,during this like, that's not it's good
and if you pull it off,it's beautiful. But in this movie,
man, these bugs wipe these peopleout. I mean, it was one

(40:16):
hundred thousand died, remember the FederalNews Network, one hundred thousand, and
then they had the name strolling andthen she had to do the search function
to find Rico on the list ofpeople who died. But the scale of
that military disaster was probably one ofthe worst in history. And remember the

(40:37):
movie, They actually fired the admiral, Yeah, they fired him. They
actually showed him being fired on theFederal Network for such an epic, horribly
planned attack where they had no ideaabout the capabilities on the enemy. They
just went in full on, I'mgoing to kill at night. They landed

(40:57):
at night. Yeah, yeah,you're right. Yeah, I mean,
and they had a couple had acouple of nukes blow things up. But
for the most part, yeah,that was that guy. That guy's gonna
get blown up. I don't know. And then the lady who came in
was kind of had the same rhetoricabout it. But no, I love
it. It's cool. Hey,talk about this. Let's take a quick
break, and when we come back, we will talk more Starship Troopers.

(41:19):
We'll be right back. Welcome backto movies, films and flicks, and
Eric, I have a surprise foryou. You're ready for this? Yes,
all right, let's do a let'sdo I'm not laughing on purpose.
I'm just laughing because I'm I'm jumping. I'm dropping this on you. Last
time you did the Warrior episode withus, I dropped the Frank Grillo one
on you and I caught you offguard. So I'm gonna catch off guard

(41:39):
with this one. We're gonna dothe Denise Richards draft. But I'm telling
you we're gonna pitch five movies.We're gonna pick five movies each and there
is plenty here to get to builda solid team. So pulling it up
right now, and I AMDB.Since I dropped it on you, I
will let you have the first pick. Thank you. Well, my first

(42:00):
pick would definitely be dropped Dead Gorgeous. Oh no, that was my first
pick because she's I sniped you.That movie is really good. Yeah,
it's good stuff. It's underrated.It was really it's like legit underrated.
But like, you know, whatI think is there there are actors who
you watch maybe Jamie Kennedy in somemovies, or you'll watch David Arquette in

(42:21):
some movies. I think there arefilms that perfectly cast them, and I
think, do we find a niceline of sweet but smart and all this
kind of stuff? And then youhave Jamie Kennedy in the First Scream or
Jamie Kennedy in bow Finger, Butthen you have in other movies where he's
just not corralled. Well, butI think, whoever Denise Richards the director,
hand like she was perfect in thatmovie. She was like perfectly cast

(42:43):
in that. Hey you're telling meshe's my top pick? Yeahgeous, I
got you, all right, I'lldo all these starship troopers gotta do it,
all right, Starship Troopers, Carmenby. You know, they pronounced her
last name wrong the whole movie.They called it like Ibanez a couple of
times. Well, four hundred yearshad gone by, maybe they westernized it
more. Yeah, it was like, why haven't that called her? You

(43:07):
find yet? It was driving mecrazy. All right, what are you
gonna do? All right, Well, I'm gonna go Wild Things probably her
best known movie at the risk isSnaddy a little gross, but she was
dying to my perfect casting and memorablein Wild Things. I mean I saw
that when I was sixteen in theaters. I remember that. I don't know

(43:28):
why. I'm just there's a scenethat where Matt Damon or Dylan when he's
with both of them, and hejust goes, oh yeah. I'm like,
I don't think that was scripted.All right, So I'm gonna say
Undercover Brother. That movie is funny. I'm gonna take under well, No,
yeah, sure, I'm gonna takeUndercover Brother. Why not? That's
my second pick. So I didn'tknow this, and I feel a little

(43:50):
bad for picking it, But Ididn't realize she was in love actually I
had no idea that she was inthere until I just pulled up. I
AMDB right now. So I'm gonnago with the classic love Actually, Oh
I am done. Yeah, you'vewon this thing easily. Oh yeah,
I'm toasted. Alright, So yourhistory, your Elvis, I'm Elvis.

(44:10):
Alright, let's see. Okay,So I'm you know what I'm gonna do
this. I'm gonna do Tammy andthe Team Rex. I own it.
I've done a podcast episode on it. It's about where she's dating Paul Paul
Walker. He dies and they puthis brain into an animatronic t Rex and
at the end they're looking for abody for him, and she pours whiskey

(44:30):
on his head to get him drunk. It's a weird movie. Eric,
Okay, it's my list, Butyou said Paul Walker, so I might
be hooked. I love that guy. Scary Movie three because at forty years
old, I still find that humorfunny. There's not another Team movie.
I think it's hilarious. I thinkhis humor still gets me even in my

(44:52):
middle ages. Watching Charlie Sheen runthrough a cornfield with short coorn that hits
him right in the ball. Imean that's uh, you can't beat it.
He took a lot of shots toa sensitive area of that movie.
Isn't that where they met? Isn'tthat where Dennise Richards met Charlie Sheen and
they got married. I'm not sure. Maybe they knew each other and that's
why they did it. He broughther in. I'm not sure. It's

(45:14):
a great question. Boy. Allright, no one's gonna know this movie,
but I like it because John Legozamofinally got the lead a movie.
And I've been a huge John Legozamofan forever. So I'm gonna take Empire
where he plays a gangster and thenhe shoots her and some I just remember,
shoot them both to please. Yeah, he gets in over his head.

(45:37):
So you've drot that gorgeous Wild ThingsLove actually scary movie three, and
you got to get pick You haveto pick one more. There's plenty.
There's plenty in here, but theonly one I recognize asked to be Undercover.
Brother. Wait, I picked thatone? Did you really? Yeah?
I don't know any of these othermovies that she's been in. Loaded
Weapon one, She's a Loaded Weaponone. Yeah, with Miller on Sam

(45:59):
Jackson. Here's in two parody movies. Yeah, I'll take a look.
I'll take it. You know whatI'm doing this, man, I'm doing
the world is not Enough. Iwas avoiding that way. It's like,
I'm not gonna be the one thatpicks the world is not end up.
Here's the thing though. All right, So a lot of people hating her
for that movie, But if you'rein her role, you're taking that film
and you're They gave her that dialogue, they gave her that role, So

(46:22):
I don't see that as her fault, if that makes sense. Yeah,
she took the role, but Idon't know. You wouldn't say no to
that. So I'm I'm gonna tellthat fair point. I'm doing Starship Troopers,
Undercover, Brother Tammy and the tRex Empire. The World's not enough.
You have dropped that gorgeous while thingslove. Actually, you're gonna kill
me. You're gonna do it.This is a ninety ten right here.
I'm in a lot of trouble onyour poll. You're welcome to put an

(46:42):
asterisk that Eric stole. Yeah,it's all it is, game over here,
game over all right. So allright, so you can go to
movies, films of Flicks our Facebookpage, So movies film well you know
how to spell it. You're listeningto the podcast, go visit the podcast
the facebook page. We have alot of fun polls. Super Positive,
a place I don't really like.We just keep it nice. Everyone's friendly
to each other. It's a coolcommunity. So follow Movies Films in Flicks

(47:06):
on Facebook and come vote on thispole the day after this episode has been
released, So if you're listening totwenty days afterwards, just go to movie
film in Flix, rother poles andmore stuff that we have, So check
that out then. But Eric,you were talking about some MP's temple rubbing
in this movie. What do youwant to extand earlier, Yeah, as

(47:27):
I was rewatching this and MPH hassome special powers in this movie, and
what he did to show it ishe would put the two fingers against the
temple move. And I was thinking, I know that temple move. And
then James McAvoy from the reboot ofX Men did the same thing. And
I have a theory that James McAvoycompletely and blatantly ripped off Neil Patrick Harris

(47:52):
for that temple move. Put areyour thoughts on that? I could see
it. I mean, he wasprobably right around that time to like it
and you to know that exists.You know what I'm gonna say it.
I'm gonna say that, uh tighttype it in they do look the exact
same James McAvoy temple. But see, here's the thing. Okay, when
I when I think of Macavoy's temple, rub, I think of more frustrated,

(48:13):
more angsty. When I think ofMph's temple, Rub, I think
of it more as I'm doing science. What do you think does it?
It's more effortless. But when doesit, he looks he's like he puts
all of his facial muscles, musclesinto it. I disagree. I think
they were both using the temple whenthey are really getting into it, like

(48:35):
Meg, like Neil Patrick Harris wastrying to figure out what cards that Rico
was picking and they were in hisbasement and he have the ferret running around
means of that ferret, yeah hehad it bite his mom's leg, but
yeah, he was trying to hewas still harnessing the power of his psychic
ability. And when Macavoy does it, it's when it's like a really serious

(48:58):
moment in the films where he reallyhad to leverage his power and for outcome.
So I think Macavoys stole it fromfrom Neil Patrick Harris. Wow,
all right, so how about this? I want to put that poll up
on the on the Movie Songs ofFlicks page two. Who did the better?
Temple rub Mph or Macavoy Let's doit? Which one? Am I
picking? X Men? First class? Yes, okay, because he's probably

(49:22):
perfected it by Days of Dark PhoenixDark. Ye, let's do the one
where he introduced it. All right, so first class. So the first
time he did it, the firsttime both of them did it, got
it because in maybe Days of FuturePast he might have gotten better at it,
so that that would be unfair toMph because he wasn't. In the
Starship Trooper sequels, which there weretwo of them. I watched the second

(49:45):
one, and it's basically bug Attackat It's basically bug Hunt Post nine and
really it's it's a it's a siegefiller. But it only had a ten
million dollar budget. No but butsee it didn't even try to be um,
sorry to interrupt, It didn't tryto be anything other than marines killing
bugs. There was no does thatmake say, there's no moments in it.

(50:07):
When they even threw in there,there's like, let's kill these bugs.
They went for the part of thequadrant that was killed bugs. Good,
yeah, part of the quadrant.And I guess the third one,
which I haven't watched, has donebrought back up the anime. But that
was the anime one, right,No, they did a live action one
with Casper. Oh okay, whichone was the anime one? Was that
the second one or the third one? I think it was the fourth?

(50:29):
They did a fourth one. Yeah, they did three live action and then
they started doing animated ones. Frommy googling, I think a reboot is
in discussions is where I saw,Oh yeah, their planning one. Are
they really Yeah? But I don'tknow. But this much like ground Swell
and this like cult favorite. Imean, they're gonna make a lot of
money off it, that's I hope. So I just how okay, The

(50:51):
problem is the brilliance of Starship Troopersis you didn't get a lot of the
brilliance of Vera Hooven ever done asequel. No, So he did RoboCop.
He didn't come back for that.He also did his films overseas.
He never finished those. I meanhe never did a sequel to those.
No, so I think that's it. I think he I think he just
does one movie and gets out.He has no urge. He just wants

(51:14):
to make Paul Verehoven movies, anda sequel probably wouldn't be a Paul Verehoven
movie, if that makes sense.Yeah, what else do you have to
say about his parallel narrative that hedid in the original Startship Troopers? He
made his point and how can youadd on to that? He was kind
of wild. So he started offwith these movies Died a Hooker Turkish Delight,
which people love. But then ifyou think RoboCop right, they made

(51:37):
a bunch of sequels and remakes.They made a PG thirteen remake of RoboCop,
which misses the point of RoboCop.Then they did sequels to Basic Instinct,
they were terrible, And then theydid Starship Trooper sequels, which were
terrible. They haven't done a totalrecall of one yet. Well, they
did a remake of it that wasPG thirteen and that was terrible. It's
really hard to follow up his stuff. And they did a hollow Man sequel

(51:58):
with Christians Slater. You might aswell just have Sandler and his crew reduced
Starship Troopers for his worst movie ever. Oh my gosh, we got that
jacked up. And yet I couldchange the name. It's there Jack.
Those that you don't know. Markwent viral or a suggested Adam Sandler worst
movie of all time based on allof his other worst movies, and it
went totally viral everywhere, And Ithink this might challenge it. Hey Sadler

(52:22):
asked for it. Yeah. Ithink that's why people loved it because I
wrote it positively, like, hey, Sadler, you said that you would
make the worst movie ever if constructive. It was constructive, like you're trying
to help him out, and soit didn't discust. I think people loved
it because it didn't come from theHateful The Hateful Eight, but oh man,
that'd be good the Hateful Eight verseStarship Troopers, them stuck in our

(52:45):
thing, just shooting bugs out westor an outer space. It has to
be oh man, well, he'snever done a movie, oh pixels,
was it have to be It hasto be a Western, because that's that's
a zero percent rated movie. Butthen they did cow Boys Were Sus Aliens,
which was panned. That movie though, just didn't that movie looked great,

(53:05):
but it didn't have anything right,I don't I don't remember anything from
it. No, I watched it, but I don't remember a thing.
You know, it's weird when you'vewatched and maybe you have this too,
But when you watch as many moviesas me, you know that the movies
are good that you that you likewhen you can remember watching them, or

(53:25):
you can remember character names. Sothere's there's movies that came out this year,
like Bloodshot that I love and Ithink about it all the time.
But that I've watched movies four weeksago, I'm like, oh, yeah,
I saw that. That makes senseso mixed complete sense. Look at
Starship Troopers. I remembered the moviein twenty twenty after it came out in
nineteen ninety seven, Like I rememberall those iconic scenes. I can't say

(53:49):
that about so many movies that thatjust go in and out. You brought
up a movie earlier when we weretalking. You brought up Extract. I
completely forgot. I'll watched that movieExtract No extraction, Extraction, extract Or.
He works with a factory and he'sjust miserable. Oh I thought we're
talking about extraction. Know we were, but I just called it extract.
So then I said, and theyneeded some extractions from this movie ste When

(54:13):
Denise and um all the other pilotwho came down, so it was Denise.
What's the other guy's name, Xander? When Xander and Carmen came down.
Eric, they're in high school.They're indoor indoor Football league is insane?
Our team? What what's happen?Like? What? What? So
they're not outdoors. This is indoorarena football, full flips, tackles with

(54:37):
forty year old people and their highschoolers. And Dizzy's the quarterback. Do
you know what something I I caught? The last time I saw it was
when after the game when they wentto the GLITZI prom and Diz and Rico
were dancing. He asked her whatshe was going to do after high school,
and she says, I might playfor Tokyo or Rio. I don't

(54:58):
know, depends on who lets mestart. So she gave up a scholarship
or an opportunity to play football quarterbackof the next level, to join the
mobile infantry to follow him Jesus wayswhile he's follow de niset Richards. Yeah,
there's a bold move cut and ifshe would have been safe in Tokyo

(55:20):
too, because they got um blenasairis they blew that up? Right?
The bugs did? So some peoplesay it's an inside job? Did the
bugs? Do you think there's noway to prove one way or the other?
Right? Inside job? Yeah.They said that the military shot a
rock, so she did another course, so no one should have been out
there and that rock shouldn't have comefrom that area. So they said that

(55:45):
someone like the military sent that rockthat way to get people attacking the bugs.
Quicker, Oh, I missed that. I completely missed that nuance in
the movie. Well, that's justa theory that people have on the intranet.
I wonder how much fan fiction hasbeen written about Starship Troopers. There's
a lot, but that's been broughtup. And also, I gotta say,
we haven't brought this up yet.This was one hundred million dollar movie.

(56:07):
But that football scene, from aproduction standpoint, is very expensive,
and that's a lot of extras.They had so many extras, and the
basic training scene and the college sceneand the football scene. I mean that's
a lot of people marching around,going so many and they built that entire
set and just they built that footballset and they made those costumes and helmets

(56:30):
and shoulder pads for one take,like one scene, and then that dance.
The amount of extra there was gooddancing extras in that. By the
way, I normally hate dancing extras. Yeah, it's a good point.
A lot of them are really badwhen you really like look in the surrounding
areas when the dance. That's theproblem working with so many. I was
gonna say a couple of things.It watching tennis movies nowadays, that's tough

(56:52):
because you can't capture tennis correctly onscreen with the actors. But watching movies
now, whenever I see extras doingsomething weird, it makes me so mad.
But I don't know if you noticedthat scene where like they really glory
lit the heck out of dis inthat scene, so her hair light is
just out of this world. Sothey she had big hair. She had
big, awesome, beautiful hair inthat movie, the whole movie. But

(57:12):
they did that to draw the attentionon her. So normally when they glory
light somebody watch a movie where there'slike a love interest or someone who's very
angelic, or you're you're supposed tolike supposed to like they glory light him.
So just watch her hair. That'sanother Verhoeven decision that that I think
he did a pretty great job on. I mean, he just knew and
so I don't know if you knowJos Facano, the DP on this movie.

(57:37):
He also did dust Boot and hehad worked on Hit with Never Any
Story before this one too, Neverany Story. Wow, yeah, so
he drowned that horse. And thenthe production designer, I don't know,
real quick, Oh we have to. We can thank him for all those
nightmares in which as we had inmiddle school with never any story, just
horse Dyan. But this guy,the production designer of Alan Cameron, he

(58:00):
did all the Mummy movies, hedid Van hell Sine Sahara, but he
also did Willow and Jungle Book andall those movies before this. So they
had some big This dy had theguy who shot Dosspoot, RoboCop, hollow
Man like total recall. They hadthe designer, the production designer from Willow
and Jungle Book and major movies.They had Phil Tippet. Man's just crazy
and like the costumes they made.They made how many costumes? Twenty three

(58:22):
hundred costumes for this movie. Wow, Yeah, I just had to bring
that up. I know we're fromall the extras and in the boot camp
scenes, I know we're going tothe soldiers. It's crazy, right,
just the amount of guns that actuallybuilt. Remember the scene of Rico and
the other pilot got in that fightwhere the pilots like rank doesn't matter right
now, you know, and thenthey all like they get in this big

(58:43):
brawl when it really looked like theywanted to hurt each other. Like a
lot of times in fights, you'relike whatever, but these two guys looked
like they really want to tear eachother apart. And they were at least
two hundred people in that set watchingthat fight and surround it gives it that
kind of energy, but that wasa lot of people. No, there's
just keeps so many extras in thisAnd you know what else is interesting.

(59:06):
They filmed all the war scenes first, so Phil Tippett had more time to
do the animation, which is reallysmart, And then they filmed all that
crop later because they're yeah, it'sright, there's like three different warsh It's
spread out on the same desert lookingplanet. So they did that all back
to like tattooing a little bit.The Star Wars. Oh wow, yeah,

(59:27):
you're right. It's crazy that theydid in Woming like certain areas,
but they had the canyons and theyhad like if you're moving through a terrain,
never go through a valley where likethe enemy could be on rocks above
you. That's another tatcoing back tothe tactics. It's the worst possible thing
you can do. I just watcheda movie called Dracula Untold and I really
enjoyed it. We did an episodefor it. But this Persian general leads

(59:52):
something like one hundred thousand people througha crevasse and you're not like, you
know a canyon. You're like,what, you just give it? He
just gave up the high ground.That's not like have you not watched Revenge
of the Sith or Wonder Woman.They gave up the high ground too,
and they got wiped out. Thatlady got shot. Never never give up
the high ground. But yeah,you're talking about Wonder Woman. When they

(01:00:15):
swag down from the cliff to fightthe bad guys on the beach, Yeah,
they had a ton of bone arrows. They could just lit them up
doing Why are you going down there. Maybe they hadn't seen guns yet,
so maybe they didn't. They hadall a bunch of hubris. But also,
I mean it's just battle one ohone. You haven't scouted these people.
Shoot them with your bows and arrows. Yeah, good point. Yeah,
I bet you the military advisors outthere, like you'll listen to Mark.

(01:00:37):
But all I'm saying is hold onthe high ground. It's not like
it's a secret. It's something thatthat's been done for thousands of years.
Yeah, just keep high ground.And but that Starship Troopers fight, You're
right, they really did go ateach other. But I've seen so my
bouncing days, I've seen a tonof brawls, and I've never seen somebody
get flipped. In movies, theylove flipping people, just picking people up

(01:00:58):
and flipping them. There's some prettyflips on tables and right, yeah,
the Zander slammed him down to thetable and he need him and then flipped
back to his feet. Like ina real fight, you wouldn't have time
or you wouldn't want to waste theenergy required to do a flip. If
you could do a flip, whichI cannot and would never, it wouldn't
even look that good. Though they'rereal in a real world that the table

(01:01:22):
would explode. Well, there aretwo other flip situations there. There was
the flip in the football game.There's a flip when they're doing the laser
tag in the basic training where hehad dizzed that ran the football play and
he flipped over the two guys andthen drilled them. There were three most
flips ever in a movie, threedifferent occasions that I can count. Man,

(01:01:43):
it's like it's like the Hoffmeyer spin, but the flip. Man,
that's um. But I've just neverseen a flip like that. I mean,
I know this movie's heightened, butif I was ever a bouncer in
a bar and I saw that flipsomeone do that to somebody, I'm like,
Oh, I'm just gonna let himwear himself out for a second.
Then I'm gonna go. He earnedthis fight. Just you know, stay
over there and do your think.The worst thing that could ever happen to

(01:02:04):
a bouncer is for him is abouncer get flipped. There's no going back
to the bar. If forgetting flipped, I'd quit. I would I would
quit. I remember one time Islipped going to break something up and I
fell and everyone started laughing and itmade me angrier. Yeah, just call
it night after that, Yeah,I'm out of here. Guys like slipped
on beer and I'm like, I'mdone. But yeah, So back to

(01:02:25):
the extraction thing that I cut usoff on. I had some thoughts about
extraction and Chris Hemsworth killing dozens ofpeople in Bangladesh. So Verehoeven is getting
all this praise for this parallel narrativeof a militarist, militaristic society whereas you
also have to shoot him up typeof narrative where you're rooting for the soldiers,

(01:02:46):
but you probably shouldn't be rooting forthem because it's kind of like this
fascist society that was inspired in thirtiesItaly and Germany. But on the other
hand, how many protagonists do weroot for all the time in movies that
are not good? People like ChrisHemsworth an extraction, Yeah, he has
some internal demons from whatever happened Ican't even remember, but he's killing so

(01:03:12):
many people. I don't see howbevere Hooven's message in Starship Troopers is any
different from the action movies of today. And all right, so you think
about distraction his mission was to saveone kid? Correct? Correct? Yeah,
So okay, yes, there area corrupt police force, and there
are, but I mean there okay, so you're but okay, let's say

(01:03:36):
you're like all their corrupt cops andtheir mercenaries they deserve to die. But
how many straight bullets and rocket launcherstook place during this brawl for one kid's
life? Like Chris Hems was outthere punching children and he's he's hurt.
Like, how many straight bullets areStrapneld? How many? But it's played
so seriously and ra ra, Iguess I have a better time with it

(01:03:58):
when it's Commando or or Starship Troopers. That's so heightened. I guess,
Yeah, Commando, he shouldn't havefeel. How many guys you did?
The numbers from Commando? And howmany bullets? Yeah, John whatever his
name fired in that field, justkilling these Central American mercenaries. But like,

(01:04:19):
but how is this any different thanCommando just murdering people left and right?
You know, I'm only bringing thisup for praising Verhoving for this parallel
narrative, which is really smart andI think it's innovative, But is it
really that different? Let's see.That's a good question, because you know
he knows what he's doing. Hedoesn't add he added that scene with this

(01:04:42):
and and and Johnny, you know, when they got the extra twenty minutes.
He adds those those that the showerscene. He wanted to create equality,
but he adds that. He addsthe blood, the guts. He
brought in Kevin Yeager, who haddone Nightmare and elm Street to show blood
and guts. But I think healso wanted to show how nasty it was,
Like, there's really he isn't it'sglorified, but then you see the

(01:05:03):
death and destruction and you're like,whoa this is? This is real?
So I okay, I don't okay, he knew what he was doing,
but I think he makes it soheightened that it's not played. It's super
real. I don't know. Andthey're killing bugs. No, but then
these bugs are super smart. Idon't know. What do you think?
I'm trying to draw my thoughts here. Yeah, I'm just asking you because

(01:05:24):
I don't have an answer. Iwas just seeing all the praise that Verehoven
is receiving for delivering this parallel narrative. But then I looked at current movies,
and I don't see much of adifference in rooting for these these heroes
and protagonists who are just the bodycount is just astronomically high, like John

(01:05:45):
Wick Chris Hemsworth in his Extraction,Because I think it's an interesting point that,
you know, a lot of praisehas come to Vere Hooven, but
a lot of it just seems likelike normal now. Or maybe he was
just um, you know, afor runner in introducing this type type of
movie that influenced the future generations ofmovies. Like so when he did RoboCop,

(01:06:06):
do you remember how violent that was? But then he also wanted to
establish race relations of big corporations,but he made that the violence so heightened,
and then in total recall, Imean, he just murders everybody.
But you're kind of wondering, isit real as all this murder real?
Am I dreaming? What is goingon? As real as a fake?

(01:06:27):
So I think he always does agood job of blending except for Hollowman.
He does a good job of blendingviolence with just enough questions or nuanced to
make it not you I'm telling you, What's what's nuanced about Extraction? Nothing?
So I would rather watch heightened,incredibly heightened violence or nuanced kickbox or

(01:06:48):
violence than something that plays it perfectlystraight. I don't. I don't see
a point to that. Like theRaid is so bunkers that the night comes
for us is so bonkers that it'sjust a ballet of blood and you embrace
it. But I would rather watchthose than those movies that take it super

(01:07:11):
seriously. I really would. Idon't. I mean, if it's based
on true story, that's fine,But I don't like this want and so
I've I've been hurt before. Man, where you watch on these movies and
you're like, man, how manypeople just die? People? People talk
about maybe Man of Steel, Butbut Man of Steel, with all that
destruction, he's trying to save billions, and then I guess thousands die in
the process. So there's nuance,I guess to that. But no,

(01:07:33):
I don't like that. I don'tlike these movies that just play it super
safe. One guy killing everybody forthe sake of one person. That gets
old to me. I don't know. I don't know. So I think
what vere Hovan's doing has enough edgeand intelligence to it to differentiate itself.
I would say, but you knowwhat you keep doing, but he does.

(01:07:54):
And I don't have an answer tothis question. I just thought it
was interesting to explore and see ifthe way he approached things has inspired other
movies or if it's really how muchdifference different is it? Really? You
know, you're right, And Ithink the problem with his is he's just
such a gutsy guy. He's he'slike, he'll make a show girls,

(01:08:17):
He'll make these movies that are verykind of European centric, very European liberal
centric, and he takes chance.I just think he'll take chances and make
things weird, make things bloody,make things over the top. So that's
why I hate the straightforward like aracer. I know they have these guns,
but it's just tons of innocent peoplegetting murdered like Matt Max Schrey Road.

(01:08:38):
They added levels to the violence,so it made it. You know,
these war boys thought they were goingto Valhalla. They had been they
had been brainwashed to that process andright, and that the final at the
end of it, when when thesepeople are dying, it's because they're going
back to give a better life tothese people who are all suffering because of
a Morton Joe Starship Troopers. Youget the raw rob but it's also just

(01:09:01):
showing how they're just using these theseYou see that cow dying in this movie,
and then you have all these humansgetting lit up in the same way
when they were unprepared. They're justmore fodder for it, I guess.
And you know what's interesting too,is I was just thinking about this.
So when we watch it, right, they it's ridiculous at their high schoolers
in the beginning, but at theend of the movie they look older than
the purposely young kids that they have. Yeah. They made a statement on

(01:09:26):
that when Rico and Jake Busey wereintroducing to the new squad, they got
reinforced, and he was like,look at all these young kids. And
then they cast young kids. Theydid, and it made them look kind
of weathered. Yeah, like they'vebeen through a pretty nasty deployment and it
was showing in there in the waythey carry themselves and the way they looked.

(01:09:48):
So I think that's maybe smart thatthey cast them, because at the
end you totally bought into them beingthe old old school guys. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, a good point. It's like you can, yeah,
you can make someone look older,you can make them look younger. Who
is right in the sweet spot.Oh, let me go back to this
what we were talking about before.So hollow Man is a movie that Paul

(01:10:08):
Verehoven said anybody could make. Andwhen you're watching that movie, it's very
okay. It's just there're scenes wherehe just sees a lady Ronamitrin, he
goes over in attacks and raped her, and then later on he's assaulting people
and he's just killing them. Butthe violence, there's no flare to it,
there's no point to it. It'sjust you don't care. It just
becomes a slasher movie. It's notdaring, it's not making it's not like

(01:10:30):
saying like these people under a fascistthing, or it's not overly playing it
as in RoboCop. It's just violencefor violent sakes and attacks for attack sakes,
and it's and it offends me morethan anything in Storship Troopers because it's
played so blase in this movie,like there's no there's nothing behind it.
So that's when I get annoyed withmovies, is when they just show that

(01:10:54):
violence like that, Yeah, there'sgot to be something more. And that's
what his early movies did, andthat's what hollow Man didn't, I guess,
so, yeah, I guess toanswer your question is no, I
guess that's why he gets away withit, right, And that's why it's
better, because there's something under underit. I guess there's only so long
that John Lack can keeping killing peoplefor his dog. But I'm still gonna
watch every single one of the moviesbecause they're great. But I don't know.

(01:11:15):
So that's a good guy. Butthat's what I like about Beehoven movies.
You can actually ask these questions aboutit. And I think that's where
a lot of the good action moviescome in. So you have the Rock
where Ed Harris gets in over hishead, right, and you when the
marines die, you feel it becauseit's the accident. And then when when
the rest of his crew turns onEd Harris, you fuel for him because

(01:11:36):
he got in over his head withgood intentions and he brought in people who
just wanted the money. Well,yea, I wrote that Cracked article about
Bokam Woodbine's background acting in that Soif you read it, go to Markoffmyer
Cracked, you'll read a good articleI wrote about that movie about his acting
and that. But yeah, so, I mean there's something behind that.
I think that's where good action filmslive. Ed Harris was really complex in
The Rock, that's for sure.And then you watch Face Off, which

(01:11:59):
we did the other day. Backgroundwatched it. It's so insane by John
Wo that you see the violence init, but you're just, yeah,
it's so stupid, right he imagineif John Wo did Starship trooverse Holy Mackerel.
So so we my friend, myfellow teacher, Kim and I.
We just had Hard Boiled, whichis one of his classics. It's like
a gun ballet that I wouldn't likeit. I wouldn't like it because Hard

(01:12:24):
boils about these two cops trying totake down these horrible people, drug runners,
and you know, going outside theforce to do it. It's kind
of his Clint Eastwood, but thegun Ballet and Starship Troopers probably wouldn't have
been because he did Win Talkers thatdidn't work. I don't know if his
style trans translates well to war movies. It's more Face Off, it's more
Broken Arrow, it's more hard Boiled, the killer small scale when you can

(01:12:46):
fit those in, Does that makesense? Yeah? It shouldn't. Their
battles should not have been a ballet. It should have been like when he
brew up that big the tanker bug, like it was just big and ugly
and fun. And the deaths arebrutal and not you needed murderous destruction,
just wanting to just unload this clipon this bug. And I think they
showed it the part when the bugwas dead, but the guy was so

(01:13:09):
amp that he just kept firing eventhough the bug was long gone. He
just he was so fired up andinto that that culture and that mission that
that's what he needed to do.And that's seth Gilliam from the wire.
So whenever I see him now,I'm like the wire that dude. It's
cool. I like him, SugarWatkins. No, but I don't know.
I think this is let's see,I have so many notes but this

(01:13:30):
movie, I guess where am Itrying to? Where am I trying to
get here? I mean, whenthey're talking about the supreme authority is violence,
they put it they put it sofar in your face too. Yeah,
that was a little That was themost in your face part of the
movie, I think, and anythingelse was kind of subtle, but that
was like really like but they saidit in a classroom setting exactly right in

(01:13:51):
the beginning of the movie, whenyou're still absorbing yeah it, but when
it's in a classroom setting, it'shard to like, you know, I
know they're discussed this for a reason, but then later on you don't really
connect it unless you're really paying attention. What's that Russian writer who said that
if you write a scene and thenthere's a gun on the wall, checkouts

(01:14:12):
gun. Yeah, make sure thatthat the gun is going to come to
play later on in the book.And that was, you know, one
of those understated, subtle lines thatthat was a big part of the movie
later on. And then the autopsyscene. You see those little bugs carrying
the brain bug later and Carmen,who's still grossed out by it, cuts
off that brain bugs thing. Ohyeah, after her her buddy's brains got

(01:14:34):
sucked out. That's that's when Ilove these movies, when you have I
don't know when when things come backlater. I like tight scripts. I
like things that can go back towhere they are. Does that make sense?
Yeah, And I think that movie, this movie does it. They're
they're talking about what were They alsogoing big on biology as a weapon.
And this movie as well. Sothey're kind of talking about how they got

(01:14:56):
smarter, but they're not as smartas they think. But then they turn
out to be smarter, and thenthey had to waste people to do that,
and then just the disposability that peopleare disposable, and Rico's maskills aren't
good so he has to go intomobile infantry. And even Xander the pilot,
he ended up not being such abad guy after all. You hated
him in the beginning, and thenhe wasn't so bad because he got their
backs. He flew into a hotzone to pick them up. I mean

(01:15:18):
he came out shooting. Yeah,and then his final line, what's someone
like me? He's gonna murder youall? Yeah, you're right. He
probably had the biggest arc of anyonein the movie. How do you get
those? How does that bug?What does it get from the brains?
It's just something sci fi e correct. Yeah, they never explained it.

(01:15:39):
Yeah, like when they sucked outthe brains, how they could absorb the
information like they didn't even bother tounderstand. But I think since they call
it the brain bug, you justgo, Okay, cool guy that makes
sense, suck a brain. Yeah, it's giant. I like when movies
do that too, and they justthey just explained, they just explained it
to you. It's a brain bug. Okay, cool, I got it,

(01:16:00):
you know. And if you're sittingthrough this entire podcast, I assume
we've either seen it or it's beenso long. But rewatch it. Rewatch
the movie. It's definitely worth watchingagain, and you know, thinking about
it and all the influences that thismovie has made throughout the year because we
talked about the role of protagonists,we talked about inspirations with other movies,

(01:16:24):
and there's a lot there. AndI encourage you to watch it on Netflix
right now. Yeah, watch it, enjoy it, go watch all the
extras too, Jesus louse. Yeah, it's a rich movie. I'd just
scare. I bought a blue rayand it didn't work, so then that
was kind of a scared getting everythingin the back end. Time to get
the extras. But there's hours ofdocumentaries, two commentaries. He talked very

(01:16:45):
hope and talks over everybody. Butit's still worth listening to. But I'll
watch it. No, I'm gladyou suggested this, Eric, because this
is this is this is a multilayeredmovie where I did not look at this
when I was fifteen like the wayI look at it now as a thirty
eight year old. Man. Well, it's got me thinking about all the
other movies I've watched, but I'vecompletely missed the point. I mean,

(01:17:06):
there's got to be so many movieswhere I've just glossed over. But but
there's a lot of of a hiddenmeaning there. And Starship Troopers is one
of those movies that came back andit's kind of fun to see, you
know, more than twenty years youknow, gone by, but it's it
was just ahead of its time.So my hat's off for all those movies
and TV shows out there that havebeen ahead of their time, like Arrested

(01:17:28):
Development. I mean, there's somany things that people don't understand at first,
but then later on really come toappreciate. Well, thank you for
joining me, man, my pleasure. I'm gonna go kill some bugs,
some more bugs, right, somemore bugs, and I'm gonna admire my
Uh. There's there's actually an Instagramaccount dedicated to Casper Van Dean's jawline no

(01:17:51):
way, yeah, yeah, it'spretty funny. And then I guess before
I get out here. I justgonna say. John Levinood of this podcast
and a Movie Solms of Flicks,came up to visit recently and we were
kind of just hanging out, havinglike a relaxing day, and we watched
on to Be a Free Oh sohe does the voice of Johnny Rico in

(01:18:14):
the animated films. We recently watchedhim in Shark the Pus versus Whale Wolf.
I'm telling you, but he getsit, man, he gets it.
So if you want to watch iton TB, it's free. So
check that out. All right,all right, we're out here, man,
Thank you for joining me my pleasure. Remember the only Good Bug is
a dead bug. That was theproducer saying that too. What a line

(01:18:35):
reading Who's so bad? The onlygood Bug is a dead book? All
right? So from me Mark Affmeyerfor Eric Affmeyer, this is Movie Films
of Flicks. We'll see you nextweek. So that was Malk and Eric
talking about Starship Troopers as always.You can find more of mars my favorite
movies, films and flicks. Youcan find Minor life as film dot com

(01:18:56):
and you can hear us both onother episodes of Corn of the podcast.
On Deep Blue Sy the podcast goingthrough some Deep Blue Sy adjacent films.
So as for start trippers, I'vebeen J Clewitt, Mark Koffmayer. We'll
be back next week, and Iwouldn't, as should you be. If
you don't come back next week,the bunny gets it, sigh Anara

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Bonus Episode - Starship Troopers - 1997

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bonus Episode - Starship Troopers - 1997