July 20, 2024 • 46 mins
En este episodio de "Conducta Delictiva", exploramos una historia impactante que sacudió a Colombia a principios de los años 2000. Hablamos sobre Madame Rochy, una mujer que manejaba un catálogo secreto de más de 5000 mujeres, incluyendo presentadoras de televisión y modelos, para satisfacer a los capos del N4RC0TR4FIC0 más poderosos del país. Nuestro invitado, Alfredo Serrano, autor del controversial libro "Las Prepago", nos revela detalles inéditos y nos lleva a través de las minucias de este oscuro capítulo en la historia del país. Conozcan las complejidades de esta red y cómo cambió la vida de muchas de sus involucradas. ¡No se lo pierdan! #podcast #historiasreales #entrevista #entretenimiento #famosos #cartel #noticias #colombia #mexico
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(00:06):
Well welcome to another chapter of criminalconduct. Today we are going to talk
about a story that began about twothousand years ago, or was revealed at
the beginning of the two thousand asseveral television presenters, well- known female
(00:28):
entertainment models of the country were involvedin a story that was led by a
character named Madame Roch. This womansaid she had on her list more than
five zero women she presented or dida pimping exercise to satisfy the best-
(00:54):
known narcos in the country, specificallythose of the Cali Cartel and the North
Valley. And this story comes tolight through a book called The Prepaid in
Interrogation Signs and the revelations of MadameRotchi. This book was written by a
(01:19):
journalist named Alfredo Serrano, who isaccompanying us today to tell us the minutiae
behind this story and who, bythe way, is a book that is
already out of the market. Itwas vetoed and because the highest records you
have are that about thirty zero copieswere sold in their original way, but
(01:42):
you find it basically hacked into thestreets across the country. Alfredo, welcome,
yes, and now that I wasdoing the introduction I remembered when I
was a child there were tolerance zonesin our cities of Bucaramanga. I remember
that there was an area of tolerancecalled the Fourth Street, the Fourth Street,
(02:07):
and the prostitutes were there and therewere cheap, not so cheap,
thin and houses decidedly said by thegovernments of that time designed to make it
the place where prostitution was practiced.Coming to the present time and at the
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time that I wrote the Book ofPrepaid this that was known and that was
already a subject that handled secrets,the celites, secret tonces, but somehow
it is a new phenomenon that isreally another link of the mafia, of
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drug trafficking, of the easy moneys, of what the country began to know
that today is overflowing, by theway, with military and with trachetos and
with corruption. When I made thatbook, I talked to sociologists, I
(03:14):
talked to people I handled. Let' s just say he was working on
everything that was traqueta culture, allthis stuff that brought us. Let'
s say the posters brought us theposters of Medellín, Cali and the North
Valley, particularly at that time.In fact, Madame Rochi, who wasn
' t Madame Rochi, and I' m telling you because she was at
(03:38):
the service of the Cali Poster.She only worked with Miguel and Gilberto Rodríguez
Orejuela. They had a hotel inCali, which had like three floors,
fourth, fifth and sixth floors,all the service of them all year round,
all the time, and there shewent with many women she recruited in
Bogotá. He took them there andthey were fifteen twenty days there and they
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didn' t know who they weregoing to be with, because they were
guests of the Rodríguez Orejuela gentlemen asa dessert. Let' s say they
called them good for dessert. Youhave today Go that yesterday you are waiting
in such a place and one andbecause they were beautiful girls, that is,
beautiful women queens, very beautiful televisionpresenters and who began, therefore,
(04:25):
to collect. And what Madan Rochedid, she was the pimp. It
was the proxieneta. She was chargingmoney, not only from them, but
the girl was charging a percentage.And all happy cattle by tip and tip,
the Chinese came with a lot ofsilver, that is, according to
who I was and what I thoughtit was worth. He was charging and
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people were willing to pay him.But besides she, the drug dealer vaccinated
him because he knew that the drugdealer had money and then he got the
jewel he wanted. He said good. They were friends. She just didn
' t come back to me Shewas a counselor. Madan Rochi, I
had the subject to talk to MotherRochi. You could talk about politics,
about mafia, about criminal groups,because she knew who that was. He
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scolded me when we were doing thebook, he told me, but you
don' t know anything, becausehe was talking about Gaitan Maecha. She
talked to me a little bit aboutmanac, which I didn' t know
mobsters and she knew the whole map. She was a very skilled woman.
This begins there then there are threecaleños men caucanos valley, which is the
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Gordo Rebellón, the Gordo Lindo,Francisco de jsel Aled, Gordo Lindo and
a man named Alfredo Tascón, whotoday I believe is a Christian pastor in
Florida. All narcos who also startedto revolutionize that world of multimillionaire prepaid.
(05:58):
I, for example, particularly thesomewhat hurtful one, knew him as four
or five queens, queens of beauty. Have a good time, beauty queen.
They chose them from the reigns morewith catalogs or sometimes making sappin turning.
The news went from one side tothe other and said I love this
one. I want this one?I want this one. Man Rochi'
(06:19):
s job was to reach them,persuade them, hire them, take them
and good little ones refused. Isee the pictures. I see the photos
she has, because she brought thealbum, the catalog, the catalog and
how to describe us a little howthat catalog was to the frau was just
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the photos or had a description,the price, or what it was like
to see a family album with photosand then I saw one at the same
time? The other one? Theother one? The other one? The
other one? The other one.There I saw an ugly little mound that
was there skinny. That was ClaudiaGurrizátil. I don' t know how
she got the picture, if Claudiasent it to her, if she didn
' t send it to her.The truth is that man Rochi I see
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on that album a photo of ClaudiaGurri Sati and said Marrochi at the time
said no. Not anymore. She' s very ugly. Not anymore.
Claudia Gurisatil, journalist Claro. Ithink at night a picture was in things.
I' ve never seen her.Let' s say the photo of
Claro de Algorizati. None of themI saw is a bondilla. She'
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s very hairy, very sardine.I don' t know how he got
it. Madan Rochi, I'm lying about saying no, but I
had her there. Since there's no tratalogue. Look, there'
s a reporter who somehow I cantell you now and if I can somehow
make up for something she' scalled Liliana Mesa. Liliana Mesa works with
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me at the Capital Canal. Shewas the host. When I was a
journalist in the capital, she hadlunch two or three times. She talks
to us several times and I alwayssaw in that girl, a very decent
girl, a girl even very quietand she didn' t look like a
queen. I did not know untilmany years after I had been queen of
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northern Santander Man Rochi. When Isee the picture of her, which by
the way comes out in the book, I wanted to remove her and keep
her because for Liliana, because ofthe affection she had. Sure and I
remember, I didn' t tellVan Rochi that he was my partner and
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now I tell you what happened?I didn' t tell her that she
was my partner, but I triedto get her underneath, of course,
because I knew her and every nightshe starts talking about her and she says
it' s not that she wasthe one who came out the most with
me and I don' t knowwhat. And she danced. He'
d go, I don' tknow what Arabic and dance I don'
t know how. And such goodit turns out that while we are in
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that task, which did not lasta single day, but did not last
several days, who José Vicente Catarain, the lord of the publishing house Oveja
Negra Madan Rochi, in that,at that moment my brother dies in Bucaramanga.
Then I stop all my homework,I' m going to find myself
taking eight days to bury and fourmore days in Bucaramanga, then on my
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return, the book was published.How so when I come back without your
permission, my first books don't come up with my profile. My
profile is clear, of course homeall that doesn' t come out.
And I tell catarnics, they're going to you what you did.
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They chose the photos. That's the truth. Madame Rochie and Catarain
chose the photos. I had nointerference with the choice of his photo.
Besides, I wasn' t goingto tell mana rochies either. This is
a smart day for her. Iwas a story, author, true rapporteur.
Then there comes the Liana Mesa forthat and Liliana was with a gentleman.
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I think he' s coming toMiami. Well, he had problems.
I never saw Lidiana again in mylife. I understand you had serious
problems with your partner in the UnitedStates. I think he was in America
because of that book, because thebook was a scandal, it was crazy.
That book. That book was animpressive thing. I believe, without
a doubt, that, alongside ahundred years of loneliness, regardless of how
(10:31):
it was sold and how it wasproduced, the Pirate book is one of
the most sold books in Colombia tothis day. How, how was the
business, with who they were ofthe narcos and how much we are talking
Alfredo people, how many were willingto pay. I don' t think
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they can imagine what they were payingfor one night, for a while,
a party with these women, becauselook at that from that time it was
already a lot of money. I' ll figure it out. There'
s one there in the book.She receives a house in San José Va
Varia of the time today a houseof San José Va Varia is worth five
(11:13):
billion pesos from those houses of SanJosé ba Varia for a weekend they gave
her one of those to deliver toa house of those. Why. Because
this is overflowing To us, theColombians, it still doesn' t fit
in our heads what is the moneyof the drug traffickers, what are the
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warehouses that those guys have in dollars, their coves. It' s a
lot of money, a lot ofmoney. It' s just that when
I say they buy like buying apound of salt in the store, a
five or six million pesos blugin,that is, it' s an overflowing
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thing. And, among other things, I believe that that silver that still
affirms in Colombia in some way,has supported the economy of this country,
that every day it has stayed forcorruption And look at the corrupt, they
are also willing to pay those womenbecause it costs them nothing. The ticket
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gets to them full hands and theycare what the girl asks. And then
here what happened that Gustavo Bolivar reflectsit very well in cyntets there is no
paradise. Gustavo is doing the researchback there in Pereira, and it turns
out that the chinitas up to todayare asking for fifteen years of teasing from
the dads or colita from the dadsas a gift of fifteen years, because
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without tits there is no paradise.And speaking specifically of amounts, how much
they could do the maximum they paidor paid for these women at that time
six hundred million pesos, three hundredmillion pesos a weekend. According to the
girl. According to the girl,because let' s say here they also
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wore pretty brothel girls as well,but they were brothels or they were,
they weren' t models, theyweren' t the TV presenter, it
wasn' t the catalog of manRochi, but I also got them and
carried them giant parties and that's still used. That went on,
that never stopped. That was institutionalizedin Colombia that party of those madmen and
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I already say scrambled with all thepolitical corruption without shame. Now I was
telling you extra microphones. I wasthen offered to make the Book of Prepaid.
I said no, I don't do that. They kill me
this yes, they kill me becausemore delicate to say that Fulano Soltano was
homosexual, clear and manes that passedmarried and with children and paid men.
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Part of that material was what thecountry later knew as the Ring community.
I am talking about homosexualism in themilitary, particularly in the country, and
I think something that caught our attentionis also our investigation to see that many
of these visits and many of thesecelebrities were going to jail. Many were
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already in prison. Also what didyou know about that, how those environments
lived, how much a narco couldpay to have a party where, because
I think they even stayed there forseveral days taking with them what that was
like. Even interesting to know whatthey were doing to get in, not
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because they were already recognized faces.I guess it wasn' t that easy
for them to get into a jailand go unnoticed. What happens is that
when you lose your shame, youdon' t even know that all of
a sudden, because you take atail and you put on a cap and
dark glasses, but inside they wentfor the silver, they went for the
silver. I saw that in jail. I arrived at Itagüi prison. There
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were all the military chiefs held therein the Government' s negotiation with them
of what became known as the lawof justice. And it turns out that
opposite, when one goes up toItagüi prison on the left, there are
houses and on the right hand sideand lotte arriving at the jail is the
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other. They turned it into aparking lot and the best car machines.
I mean the most modern I seeone there, but the most beautiful were
the women who got off those carsthat parked them, went in ordinary,
didn' t have to register withother names, that is, they had
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already lost their shame. Many womencame in from them they became. Then
many married in there with them beautifuland all for a ticket. Now that
when every day because the guard wascorrupt, we entered in three weeks.
The only ones who can get intojail in three weeks are lawyers. They
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have that authority. We were inbetween weeks. The women were coming in
during the week, you were going, on a Thursday, on a Wednesday,
and he was already the women inside. What was that profile coveted by
the mafia or what were their demandson the women they chose, because according
to each of them they chose themfor real and made sapin between and I
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said look, I want this MadameRochi had to go do that job.
She some of the persuas gave toothers could not, but most of them
fell in front of the ticket,that is, but we know that the
Orejuela brothers said that she cannot beany woman they wanted. He eats a
clear thing. What happens is thatmore interested Rodríguez Orejuela, I have the
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opportunity to go to the house whereGilberto Rodríguez Orejuela is captured I go with
his eldest son, with Fernando RodríguezMondragón. When I entered the house where
Gilberto was captured, it was justas the shoes had captured him. In
fact, I looked at some leathershoes and underneath said Gilberto Rodrigo, that
is, he sent to be theshoes with his own name, that Alberto
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had a beautiful letter. I mean, surely he was a very good pupil
of children, I imagine a beautifuldivine fin, but he was a learned
man, he was a read man. Then he needed that the old women
who took him were not hollow,they were old women who had conversations about
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art politics. In other words,he demanded that. Gilberto already, Miguel
was crazier, he was more lockMiguel was already crazier. But in fact,
Miguel, his ex- wife,is a queen of Valle del Cauca,
one of the queens of Valle delCauca. She was one of Miguel
' s women, who is theone left alive, who is still priced
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and left alive because Gilberto died abouta year and a half ago, and
it' s true that one ofthe demands. That' s where we
read a part of the book thatsaid they couldn' t be country girls.
Or they made that bad recommendation.Of course, Madan Rochi could not
bring her country women because they werealready in the cartel war. So that
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was crazy. So it was themost beautiful of all, because they would
believe that they infiltrated them and thenkill them There was already that war.
Then all the women who went couldnot be from Medellin or Paisa. They
all had to get them on theoutside. However, since she wasn'
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t the only customers that had MadameRochi. For example, I name that
chain ranon in the eyes when Iwas the General of the Republic. Right,
and it turns out she puts Nataliain Paris? Let us remember that
Van Rochi brings Natalia to Paris,which, by the way, we are
here at a conciliation in the prosecutionand I remember very much that Natalia Paris
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is late with Abelardo of the star. We were all waiting for that conciliation
and it turns out that Natalia entersand the office where we were was very
small a little thing. I couldn' t stand the truth and everyone was
sitting like that on the side andI was beside Man Rochi, in the
back, next to the prosecutor.Then Natalia comes in waving to everyone very
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decent and then we also greet hervery decently. But when she gets to
where Man Rochi, she gives herselfin the hand and Natalia Paris tells her,
" Lady nice to meet you infront of the prosecutor and Man Rochi,
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does it tell you I' mglad to see you again?"
This is crazy, that is,the ability of the woman, that is,
it' s a spectacular chess game, because the one tells her I
don' t know her from theprosecutor' s TV and the other tells
her I' m glad to seeyou again, or it' s a
literature thing. She understands me fromfilm, from film, because she says
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one, these old women are andindeed she, that is, all her
life in her last years, fromMadame Rotchi, from Consuelo García González,
from Carolina Duarte, as she wasknown in the world of the mafia,
was one clear, the same person, the players, that she all her
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life. It served this even inthe days when we wrote the book,
because to see, when we wrotethe book, pimping is a crime in
Colombia, then she wanted to appearwhen writing the book that she was not
exercising her table because she already lookedBelardo de la Estriella discovers a girl,
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I think that a little of thosethousand. I don' t know how
Santanderian she was working on those days. Then there he wanted to nail her
to watch over the star and whathappened to it. There' s a
pandering process for Madam Rotchie. Idon' t know. That never prospered.
I remember talking about the star,when he realizes that I know enough
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about his relationship with the paramilitaries,the guy meets me one day over there
in the area where he has hisoffice and desists from the demand for Madandroche,
Natalia Paris, among others. BecauseI remember Natalia Paris, when that
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war began, that was media.That we showed up the media, we
looked like a Hollywood star, wedropped the spotlight and it turns out that
we discovered that Natalia Paris had madean agreement with Colombian justice because her husband
Alias had disappeared. I don't know what the truth was the husband,
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the father of Natalia Paris' child, a drug dealer who disappears and
tells him the justice to work morewords, less. You don' t
get me into this anymore, now, but we found out that he went
on, that he went on withmanes narcos. Then the thing was warming
up on the side where he leftwas going to warm up. So they
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say let' s get this oneover with and that mess is over.
They really desist from the lawsuit and, apart from Natela Paris, that more
lawsuits fell to friends Aura Christina Gayner, I think a girl, but I
have come out the wife of theGiraldo guy that I don' t remember
the woman, but yes, Inever knew, neither by name, nor
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by colleague, nor anything. Iknew her and I don' t think
any more. I don' tremember, I don' t remember any
more. And now Cristina has cometo us. We met with Aura Christina
Gayner, we reconciled. I don' t remember. There was no retraction,
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which was what they asked of us, there was no retraction. She
wanted to come and the truth is, the editor didn' t agree that
we should talk. And there Itook man Roche and took her to one
side and said come on, becausenow Cristina was very decent with us.
It wasn' t rude, itwas dear. Actually, a spectacularly beautiful
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woman Aura, Cristina Gayner is stilla very pretty woman and she behaved very
well. Then I told him no, because besides, I had never had
the judicial son and do not believethat one wears it, of course,
not only economically, but that onewears it out having to attend to that
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one. I told him no.We' re getting out of this.
We' re getting out of this,' cause this isn' t good.
Alfredo, and just as you saythat Natalia seemed or said she didn
' t know Mom Rotchi, therewas another one who did the same thing,
some also acting the same and otherssaid no. I' m not
other people who took care of thattopic and I jockeyly say to someone else
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we rewinded them, to others wegave life, because they appeared among the
celebrities who were in that book.And then look. The narcos were laughing.
Here' s a feature and peoplealways ask me good and you weren
' t afraid the narcos would killhim. You didn' t add up
to laughing. They were happy.They were happy, of course they said.
I then had the opportunity to bewith Fulana and Soltar is that look
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at a characteristic that has seemed verysuggestive in my entire journalistic life and as
a writer, researcher. Confessed pricks, drug dealers, mobsters, those manners
tell you. I committed the crime. Yeah, you know what I mean.
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Instead, the other white- collarbandits have never committed a crime.
They never recognize their crime. Theseconfessors are worse, at least they tell
the truth. Those who are likethis in Colombia never say. That wasn
' t all behind my back.No one recognizes that drug money went into
the campaigns, but everyone had andate of it. That' s a
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difference between those two worlds. Youalso expressed in the book that there were
many who sponsored the same queens withinthere was even one who had of thirty
had twenty- eight sponsored by him. Of course what happens is that this
reign of Cartagenas, which was alsoanother great denunciation that we were doing there
between the lines. That became ascoundrel, because they started moving a lot,
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a lot more millions to watch thoseevents end up being carnivals. As
usual. We' ve made acarnival country. Every weekend there is a
carnival anywhere in the country. Thenthey take as an excuse that event for
the farra and for the overflow andfor the rumba and for the madness.
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This was no exception. God knowsthe secrets. If she' s already
dead, I think her name isDoña Tera, that' s the mother
of an angle raimundo. The organizersof what they would see, what they
saw, what they saw there werereigns that lay down others that were bought
there, there were queens that werenever queens because there was silver in between,
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that is always and in all thereigns of Colombia. Then appeared the
reigns of the cassava, of thePope, of the banana, of the
corn, of the rose, reignof the donkey in that way, because
all those reigns were in Banknote andin the villages, for example, in
the area of the Esmeraldas, whichis the richest area of Colombia, the
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Jemelanterojonos, who have the most silverin this country, all the silver in
the world, they make full reignsand then the most beautiful girls carry them.
They buy them. It' scrazy, it' s a women
' s marketing business in Colombia.This thing that has happened, i e,
prepaid, never lost its validity.The prepaid issue. It' s
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worse today. Today is worse andmany moms willing for the ticket to have
their girls there. That was alsosomething that I saw Marrochi make a statement.
I was telling a very famous televisionpresenter in Colombia. I was telling
her not to be ungrateful and Iwas telling her a lot of her moms
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are the way they are and theyhave what they have. So by the
management that I did and by whatyou did the services that you provided.
And it' s just that Manchiwasn' t just anyone. She was
a woman who had training in law, that is, law from a prestigious
university, that is, she's a lawyer without a degree. She
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knew her sisters are magistrates of theRepublic, that is, Marrochin was not
a vagrancy. That way, then, that came to be done was no
longer a woman who had besides itseems that never practiced prostitution, that is,
man Rochi saw the business very buoyant, fabulous and look that those modeling
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houses there covertly still today lend themselvesfor that, those wet houses, because
he keeps seeing, that is,traquitos there all the time. What changed
that the manes are no longer visinlesthat the manes no longer want to be
in the magazine or not they alreadywant to pass down, soft, fungi,
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but continue to enjoy. And that' s what happened in Colombia.
Look at all the scandals every weekendthey caught alias. I don' t
know what over there on the island, I don' t know what.
With so many girls there are somany guys, those vallenato singers and artists
in Colombia sang to all those peopleall the time and won and still earn
money at private parties, whatever theyask for with traquetos. Alfredo, speaking
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of that underground, all these millionswho paid for a night or a while
with her how they legalized themselves,they were never effective there, they never
hid ah Well, I remember inthe book I talk about a man who
chose a check, a certain beles. I think he' s the one
who wrote the checks. Amán Rochiknocked her down and told Rodríguez Orejuel and
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Rodríguez Sodora told him to pay him, because he paid him. And he
had to go pay man Roche becausethe Rodriguez Lola told him to pay or
pay him. But those moneys areall cash. Nothing counts, you never
see, Alfredo, how you getto that story. It' s Gordo
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Lindo prison, Alfredo tells me,look there' s a lady. So,
so, so, so, so, so, you give me the
data and we communicate. And that' s the story. To me the
story gives me the Cute Fat inItagüi prison, when they were before being
extradited, because they were extradited thoseparamilitary chiefs, that the Cute Fat was
not chief. For me Terra hadbought him that, that franchise that then
(30:30):
the justice would give him more expensiveand the fat guy pays all those years
and now he got out of jailrecently and I think he' s thinking
he' s also going out inan irregular way and that' s where
he is. I don' tknow lost I never heard from him again,
but I get that story there.That' s why I say that
from the prison of my prison visitsI took out four books when I visited
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the Palametares, among other things.That' s why I know and it
has a lot to do with thisissue, both of Abelardo de la Estrella,
because Abelardo is the one who suesme with Natalia to Paris this book
and gets a scoundrel judge of theRepublic to take out the book three months
of circulation, ninety days, somethingI' ve never seen in the country
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and I think he doesn' thave a couple because here they violate freedom
of the press, of information.All this was violated and they did not
care for the power that already managedto see them from the stars, which
was the proxy of Natalia Paris.We are going there precisely as when this
whole story begins that you are meetingwith that Mrs Madan Rotchi, you begin
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to tell her come I had morethan I think you voted a number.
I think five zero women in mycatalog. What starts to happen to Alfredo
Serrano when he starts to say ayyo to her. I' ve seen
her already. This is Fulanita,this sultanita, because she was not only
the queen model of the national reign, which is Miss Fulana, who almost
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little know her, but also presenters. Now let' s say people of
the known farandula, for look whatone is then to see. For me
the subject was new. I wasnever a Farandula reporter starting with that.
I was never Farandula' s,but it took me. Let' s
say the strength that the book hasfor me and it must have had the
(32:19):
book, that it didn' t, unfortunately, is that I wanted to
denounce that behavior. Let' ssay such beautiful women in Colombia who didn
' t have any need for that. You do understand me clearly, among
other things, because they were verywell placed at work. They were successful
(32:39):
girls and in a perversion let's say it reflects a society that later
came without tetanus. There is paradiseand everything we knew after what was the
degeneration, let' s say ofthat now almost inevitable, because it was
one of the so- called,of the facets to this day very strong,
(33:01):
of what leaves the native culture inColombia, of everything that he saw.
He was one of those who sawwhich one took him most by surprise,
because I think none. I don' t think any of them stopped
getting in before that for safety.She didn' t want to put security
in what way, because of threatsthat killed her. Look there was a
(33:22):
very pretty queen of Santander, andI remember she was very pretty because it
caught my attention. I' ma Saintanderian and we' re not brown.
We in Santander are white, unlessthey are Barranqueños, that the Barranqueños
are the browns of Santander. We' re not white. But this girl
was a dark- haired brunette almostlike a beautiful Amazon and more at the
(33:47):
time Did they steal that girl's reign? You stole that girl'
s reign? I was hanging outwith a guy I don' t remember
who was here from a mafia inDenmark, Boyacá and Santander, which is
a mafia that has been little talkedabout, a lot of power where the
prisons are put in there. It' s crazy, but they were very
(34:07):
dangerous. So Ma Rochi, son, I don' t talk about that
old lady and they kill me.Then we didn' t put her in,
and I don' t want toname her either. We didn'
t put her in. And ithas been many others, some because they
were very much in her heart.In her affection, Madan Rochi' s,
one became friends with the people youdon' t work with. He
didn' t become a friend.Then he wanted to protect them and so
(34:30):
several did not leave Alfredo, butyou came to write of the paramilitaries of
ilse la cat. How he gavethis story credence. Not because you came
from being a very robust journalist andat the moment someone tells you it'
s not that Fulanita and Sultanita aresleeping with the biggest bosses in Colombia.
(34:51):
You what evidence asks you for orwhat seen that led you to believe that
if it was true, it isthat the first thing you have to be
as a journalist is that the sourceis accurate and you will see and I
had two or three sources that toldme is true. She serves the Cali
Poster. So I said let's do it and when life starts to
(35:12):
show the albums and talk all wetalked about is that if one really said
if the old lady had told itall it had been crazy. She even
makes a second book Women prepaid somethingso that nothing happened with that book.
Moreover, it was that a kingalmost that what we do not publish,
she publishes it and throws it there, but more seeing as the commercial theme
and more seeing as the topic alreadyof silver, of silver that I really
(35:37):
do not know how much she couldwin. The only thing he won was
a stolen one. It was mebecause not only does the editor steal from
me with the stripping of the booksthat the Chamber denounced to you, as
Bogotá did, and that there isa reconciliation all crap there. But the
old lady also steals from me becauseshe is captured by a venezuela who is
(36:00):
a scoundrel named Miguel Sierra Alta.With that guy it was that they did
the business in America. I meetwith a great journalist in Colombia. I
tell him Look Brother, this andtells me no if that kind of grave
like twenty artists from Colombia. Sheis famous, He has a company in
Miami called Latin angels He is aVenezuelan they take her to live in Miami,
(36:23):
Among other things, she falls inMiami to the pastor that Alfredo Tascón,
a drug dealer who redeems his grief. It converts to Christianity. He
' s a Christian pastor, andwhat I knew was that he' s
a long way off. I lookedat a favor you want. No,
(36:45):
it probably gives her how to livethere, and she doesn' t mess
with me anymore. Please, Imean, I don' t want to
anymore, this is past history forme. I don' t want you
to name me anymore. I don' t want to. Such is more
unofficially, to say the following.Madan Rochie must be in Colombia. I
don' t know where he is. She was the front page of the
(37:09):
United States and was declared an interdictby her sisters, who are magistrates of
the Republic. That' s thelast thing I knew about Madame Rochi.
He hasn' t seen him again. I don' t want to see
her again in my life. Idon' t want to see her in
my life. Why the front?Why not,' cause I' ve
got a lot of trouble for him. Well, man, yeah, we
(37:30):
' re both partners in a project. We' re supposed to be in
that project as partners. Turns outthey sell him that univision story and steal
from me. So, a personof that category doesn' t deserve one
to follow their path. I hadthe chance in Miami to sue univision,
(37:52):
some lawyers, a Jewish buffet whoput me a son of a very well
- economic Colombian girl there very dear. You know what it' s worth
to pay for lawyer in the UnitedStates and we came to the conclusion that
a million dollars, which was whatI intended was, that is, they
were charging because there are people whoare used to hundred two hundred million dollar
(38:16):
lawsuits and a univision was going toput their legal apparatus in because they defend
themselves trying to see who was rightin copyright issues. And finally, I
took off and I did good.Today univision, I can sell stories,
univision to Telemundo. I' malive and I' m still selling.
(38:37):
I had the great success of thetheft of the century in Netflix, which
was a wonderful thing. And Ikeep on selling and I keep on producing
and I keep writing stories and Ikeep on right, that is, in
life when you act right, let' s say, even the first thing
(38:59):
that journalists in Colombia, colleagues doubtedthat my story was credible. They doubted
that this character named Madame Rochi wasfiction, that it was not a story,
that it was a story that Ihad invented, not us, in
the spectator and with Gustavo Gómez orderedthe radio, we took out Madan Rochi
and we showed the country that,indeed, she the one that existed clear
(39:21):
now, she was not called ManRochi. She was Carolina Duarte. Consuelo
García González' s name for Pilaand Carolina Duarte was the name he handled
with the Rodríguez Orejuels in Cali.Madame Rochi we did not invent it José
Vicente Cataraín and Alfrededo Serrano. Whycatarain when he saw the story, because
(39:45):
the guy better said I adapted anoffice for me to write the story with
Manrochi there in the publishing house andthe old lady came and we recorded and
then José Vicente me if it isthe madame. Is it Madame? She
' s the madam, and thenshe tells me about a pimp in Cartagena
(40:07):
years before, named Rochi, whodies the killer. I don' t
remember what happened, but she diesand then I tell Katarain how. It
seems to me that I finish rorochino ends me. Consueling of saying this
and this and telling me Man Rochand Madan Rochi left her. Then,
(40:28):
very skillfully it says in the mediathat she was Madan Rochi lies She was
a character or for the book.It is born as Ursula is born in
the book of one hundred years ofsolea. In the same way it is
one she is born as Man Rochiin the literary work. There she was
(40:49):
born as a mandochino, as shesaid in the media, that she,
she was man rochi and tar shewas already thinking of looking, because this
is used a lot. How dowe get the writer out of the way,
for me direct story to take awaywhat he earned that what they finally
did. Who is Carolina Educate,then what a story she has. She
(41:10):
was a law student at Free Universityand I think she finished subjects and being
very young, she stays in vafrom home. Then she will surely leave,
She an ordinary woman and her sistersare magistrates of the Republic, i
e the father I believe was animportant lord in law. They' re
(41:30):
of origin. Boyasense them and sheends up almost adopted by a journalist by
Giraldo, who was a journalist whoknew him, even many veteran colleagues.
I got muddy friends of mine andI got very brotherly you how to talk
about Giraldo if that mane was thisand this and this. Yes, I
(41:53):
understand he was a very prestigious journalistin Colombia, but the best in this
country. But evil was in it. Then he adopts her and takes her
to the Rodriguez Orejuela. And then, even there is a story, there
with a hermaphrodite that I tell,that she narrates that they take the guy
to this Mr Giraldo. Among otherthings, one of the ones that sues
(42:15):
me is a journalist that I nevermet, Giralto' s wife of that
journalist and that I think everything abouta boy, a girl for the rights
of the girl' s boy.That finally, never prospered that demand for
her. For example, there's something very important there and it'
s apart from the gangster narcoles.Madarrochi said that if not more than half
(42:37):
or half of his clients, theywere honorable congressmen ministers recently crossed a controversy
also of a porn actress who offeredhim x silver that I imagine will come
out the henary of the va Mira. In that go look at the girls.
How they are harassed by journalists whoenter the Republic, who tell what
(43:00):
has happened to them there. Bulliedthe boys look at most of the extra
journalists in the Congress of the Republic. They' re scoundrels. They know
all these truths and no one saysanything. Let' s all be quiet
because we pay well. A journalistwho works in the Congress of the Paid
(43:22):
Republic and lives very well. Theneverybody, hold still. That' s
a relaxing, relaxing, that's that example I just came out of.
That' s how it is inthe Congress of the Republic. Brother,
where there is easy money, thereis decomposition of the human being and
society. It is that the subjecthere is a matter of morality, ethics,
(43:45):
virtue, legality. Our governments areperverted governments. So, here,
within their personal jurisdiction, any ofthese governments do what they do and then
it' s a party and whatthey want is for us all to follow
that same party as they do.That' s a crazy thing. And
(44:07):
all that has to do with thisissue of Prepaid when you talked to the
narcos about this about what those conversationswere like, what they said, Brother,
look at them This was a joy, this was a break for them,
it was a break, it wassomehow like making fun. Let'
(44:31):
s say we know that they,with their power and their money, had
everything at hand and watch eye withthis to a large extent they had the
media information, because if you arethe broadcaster of equi news and have well
(44:52):
- paid billetico of these ways,lesh does any favor, just as simple
as it has to do with thenews item informative. The bill, I
mean how bad it was. Let' s say this, which was one
of my great stays, is travelingby presenting us at the times triple the
news and lying with the mafia,I mean a double moral, if you
(45:17):
understand me, Alfredo, if youdid again I would write this book never
again I would do it, no, because somehow. It was irresponsible and
let' s say professional immaturity.Get me into this because my approach was
(45:37):
different. Unfortunately, it ended updiverting all the approach I wanted, which
was like drawing attention to the factthat this was a country of beautiful women
who had no need and that aculture of prostitution was being created really in
Colombia, which was what I wanted. He ended up in a grotesque sheath
there in a book that didn't even have a correction of this one,
(46:00):
because if you look at that bookhe has a bit of mistakes that
went away because you write, thewriter writes and delivers so that the style
corrector to his work. If youunderstand this, it was never done with
that book and I don' tdo headaches. The truth is, I
won one thing with that Fama book. I didn' t gain any more
(46:22):
fame and trouble. Thanks to Alfredofor having been kay for sharing the experience
and I very much hope that hewill be useful for this program.
Well welcome to another chapter of criminalconduct. Today we are going to talk
about a story that began about twothousand years ago, or was revealed at
the beginning of the two thousand asseveral television presenters, well- known female
(00:28):
entertainment models of the country were involvedin a story that was led by a
character named Madame Roch. This womansaid she had on her list more than
five zero women she presented or dida pimping exercise to satisfy the best-
(00:54):
known narcos in the country, specificallythose of the Cali Cartel and the North
Valley. And this story comes tolight through a book called The Prepaid in
Interrogation Signs and the revelations of MadameRotchi. This book was written by a
(01:19):
journalist named Alfredo Serrano, who isaccompanying us today to tell us the minutiae
behind this story and who, bythe way, is a book that is
already out of the market. Itwas vetoed and because the highest records you
have are that about thirty zero copieswere sold in their original way, but
(01:42):
you find it basically hacked into thestreets across the country. Alfredo, welcome,
yes, and now that I wasdoing the introduction I remembered when I
was a child there were tolerance zonesin our cities of Bucaramanga. I remember
that there was an area of tolerancecalled the Fourth Street, the Fourth Street,
(02:07):
and the prostitutes were there and therewere cheap, not so cheap,
thin and houses decidedly said by thegovernments of that time designed to make it
the place where prostitution was practiced.Coming to the present time and at the
(02:30):
time that I wrote the Book ofPrepaid this that was known and that was
already a subject that handled secrets,the celites, secret tonces, but somehow
it is a new phenomenon that isreally another link of the mafia, of
(02:53):
drug trafficking, of the easy moneys, of what the country began to know
that today is overflowing, by theway, with military and with trachetos and
with corruption. When I made thatbook, I talked to sociologists, I
(03:14):
talked to people I handled. Let' s just say he was working on
everything that was traqueta culture, allthis stuff that brought us. Let'
s say the posters brought us theposters of Medellín, Cali and the North
Valley, particularly at that time.In fact, Madame Rochi, who wasn
' t Madame Rochi, and I' m telling you because she was at
(03:38):
the service of the Cali Poster.She only worked with Miguel and Gilberto Rodríguez
Orejuela. They had a hotel inCali, which had like three floors,
fourth, fifth and sixth floors,all the service of them all year round,
all the time, and there shewent with many women she recruited in
Bogotá. He took them there andthey were fifteen twenty days there and they
(04:01):
didn' t know who they weregoing to be with, because they were
guests of the Rodríguez Orejuela gentlemen asa dessert. Let' s say they
called them good for dessert. Youhave today Go that yesterday you are waiting
in such a place and one andbecause they were beautiful girls, that is,
beautiful women queens, very beautiful televisionpresenters and who began, therefore,
(04:25):
to collect. And what Madan Rochedid, she was the pimp. It
was the proxieneta. She was chargingmoney, not only from them, but
the girl was charging a percentage.And all happy cattle by tip and tip,
the Chinese came with a lot ofsilver, that is, according to
who I was and what I thoughtit was worth. He was charging and
(04:46):
people were willing to pay him.But besides she, the drug dealer vaccinated
him because he knew that the drugdealer had money and then he got the
jewel he wanted. He said good. They were friends. She just didn
' t come back to me Shewas a counselor. Madan Rochi, I
had the subject to talk to MotherRochi. You could talk about politics,
about mafia, about criminal groups,because she knew who that was. He
(05:12):
scolded me when we were doing thebook, he told me, but you
don' t know anything, becausehe was talking about Gaitan Maecha. She
talked to me a little bit aboutmanac, which I didn' t know
mobsters and she knew the whole map. She was a very skilled woman.
This begins there then there are threecaleños men caucanos valley, which is the
(05:35):
Gordo Rebellón, the Gordo Lindo,Francisco de jsel Aled, Gordo Lindo and
a man named Alfredo Tascón, whotoday I believe is a Christian pastor in
Florida. All narcos who also startedto revolutionize that world of multimillionaire prepaid.
(05:58):
I, for example, particularly thesomewhat hurtful one, knew him as four
or five queens, queens of beauty. Have a good time, beauty queen.
They chose them from the reigns morewith catalogs or sometimes making sappin turning.
The news went from one side tothe other and said I love this
one. I want this one?I want this one. Man Rochi'
(06:19):
s job was to reach them,persuade them, hire them, take them
and good little ones refused. Isee the pictures. I see the photos
she has, because she brought thealbum, the catalog, the catalog and
how to describe us a little howthat catalog was to the frau was just
(06:42):
the photos or had a description,the price, or what it was like
to see a family album with photosand then I saw one at the same
time? The other one? Theother one? The other one? The
other one? The other one.There I saw an ugly little mound that
was there skinny. That was ClaudiaGurrizátil. I don' t know how
she got the picture, if Claudiasent it to her, if she didn
' t send it to her.The truth is that man Rochi I see
(07:04):
on that album a photo of ClaudiaGurri Sati and said Marrochi at the time
said no. Not anymore. She' s very ugly. Not anymore.
Claudia Gurisatil, journalist Claro. Ithink at night a picture was in things.
I' ve never seen her.Let' s say the photo of
Claro de Algorizati. None of themI saw is a bondilla. She'
(07:25):
s very hairy, very sardine.I don' t know how he got
it. Madan Rochi, I'm lying about saying no, but I
had her there. Since there's no tratalogue. Look, there'
s a reporter who somehow I cantell you now and if I can somehow
make up for something she' scalled Liliana Mesa. Liliana Mesa works with
(07:51):
me at the Capital Canal. Shewas the host. When I was a
journalist in the capital, she hadlunch two or three times. She talks
to us several times and I alwayssaw in that girl, a very decent
girl, a girl even very quietand she didn' t look like a
queen. I did not know untilmany years after I had been queen of
(08:13):
northern Santander Man Rochi. When Isee the picture of her, which by
the way comes out in the book, I wanted to remove her and keep
her because for Liliana, because ofthe affection she had. Sure and I
remember, I didn' t tellVan Rochi that he was my partner and
(08:35):
now I tell you what happened?I didn' t tell her that she
was my partner, but I triedto get her underneath, of course,
because I knew her and every nightshe starts talking about her and she says
it' s not that she wasthe one who came out the most with
me and I don' t knowwhat. And she danced. He'
d go, I don' tknow what Arabic and dance I don'
t know how. And such goodit turns out that while we are in
(08:58):
that task, which did not lasta single day, but did not last
several days, who José Vicente Catarain, the lord of the publishing house Oveja
Negra Madan Rochi, in that,at that moment my brother dies in Bucaramanga.
Then I stop all my homework,I' m going to find myself
taking eight days to bury and fourmore days in Bucaramanga, then on my
(09:22):
return, the book was published.How so when I come back without your
permission, my first books don't come up with my profile. My
profile is clear, of course homeall that doesn' t come out.
And I tell catarnics, they're going to you what you did.
(09:43):
They chose the photos. That's the truth. Madame Rochie and Catarain
chose the photos. I had nointerference with the choice of his photo.
Besides, I wasn' t goingto tell mana rochies either. This is
a smart day for her. Iwas a story, author, true rapporteur.
Then there comes the Liana Mesa forthat and Liliana was with a gentleman.
(10:07):
I think he' s coming toMiami. Well, he had problems.
I never saw Lidiana again in mylife. I understand you had serious
problems with your partner in the UnitedStates. I think he was in America
because of that book, because thebook was a scandal, it was crazy.
That book. That book was animpressive thing. I believe, without
a doubt, that, alongside ahundred years of loneliness, regardless of how
(10:31):
it was sold and how it wasproduced, the Pirate book is one of
the most sold books in Colombia tothis day. How, how was the
business, with who they were ofthe narcos and how much we are talking
Alfredo people, how many were willingto pay. I don' t think
(10:52):
they can imagine what they were payingfor one night, for a while,
a party with these women, becauselook at that from that time it was
already a lot of money. I' ll figure it out. There'
s one there in the book.She receives a house in San José Va
Varia of the time today a houseof San José Va Varia is worth five
(11:13):
billion pesos from those houses of SanJosé ba Varia for a weekend they gave
her one of those to deliver toa house of those. Why. Because
this is overflowing To us, theColombians, it still doesn' t fit
in our heads what is the moneyof the drug traffickers, what are the
(11:33):
warehouses that those guys have in dollars, their coves. It' s a
lot of money, a lot ofmoney. It' s just that when
I say they buy like buying apound of salt in the store, a
five or six million pesos blugin,that is, it' s an overflowing
(11:54):
thing. And, among other things, I believe that that silver that still
affirms in Colombia in some way,has supported the economy of this country,
that every day it has stayed forcorruption And look at the corrupt, they
are also willing to pay those womenbecause it costs them nothing. The ticket
(12:16):
gets to them full hands and theycare what the girl asks. And then
here what happened that Gustavo Bolivar reflectsit very well in cyntets there is no
paradise. Gustavo is doing the researchback there in Pereira, and it turns
out that the chinitas up to todayare asking for fifteen years of teasing from
the dads or colita from the dadsas a gift of fifteen years, because
(12:41):
without tits there is no paradise.And speaking specifically of amounts, how much
they could do the maximum they paidor paid for these women at that time
six hundred million pesos, three hundredmillion pesos a weekend. According to the
girl. According to the girl,because let' s say here they also
(13:03):
wore pretty brothel girls as well,but they were brothels or they were,
they weren' t models, theyweren' t the TV presenter, it
wasn' t the catalog of manRochi, but I also got them and
carried them giant parties and that's still used. That went on,
that never stopped. That was institutionalizedin Colombia that party of those madmen and
(13:26):
I already say scrambled with all thepolitical corruption without shame. Now I was
telling you extra microphones. I wasthen offered to make the Book of Prepaid.
I said no, I don't do that. They kill me
this yes, they kill me becausemore delicate to say that Fulano Soltano was
homosexual, clear and manes that passedmarried and with children and paid men.
(13:50):
Part of that material was what thecountry later knew as the Ring community.
I am talking about homosexualism in themilitary, particularly in the country, and
I think something that caught our attentionis also our investigation to see that many
of these visits and many of thesecelebrities were going to jail. Many were
(14:13):
already in prison. Also what didyou know about that, how those environments
lived, how much a narco couldpay to have a party where, because
I think they even stayed there forseveral days taking with them what that was
like. Even interesting to know whatthey were doing to get in, not
(14:33):
because they were already recognized faces.I guess it wasn' t that easy
for them to get into a jailand go unnoticed. What happens is that
when you lose your shame, youdon' t even know that all of
a sudden, because you take atail and you put on a cap and
dark glasses, but inside they wentfor the silver, they went for the
silver. I saw that in jail. I arrived at Itagüi prison. There
(15:01):
were all the military chiefs held therein the Government' s negotiation with them
of what became known as the lawof justice. And it turns out that
opposite, when one goes up toItagüi prison on the left, there are
houses and on the right hand sideand lotte arriving at the jail is the
(15:22):
other. They turned it into aparking lot and the best car machines.
I mean the most modern I seeone there, but the most beautiful were
the women who got off those carsthat parked them, went in ordinary,
didn' t have to register withother names, that is, they had
(15:43):
already lost their shame. Many womencame in from them they became. Then
many married in there with them beautifuland all for a ticket. Now that
when every day because the guard wascorrupt, we entered in three weeks.
The only ones who can get intojail in three weeks are lawyers. They
(16:06):
have that authority. We were inbetween weeks. The women were coming in
during the week, you were going, on a Thursday, on a Wednesday,
and he was already the women inside. What was that profile coveted by
the mafia or what were their demandson the women they chose, because according
to each of them they chose themfor real and made sapin between and I
(16:29):
said look, I want this MadameRochi had to go do that job.
She some of the persuas gave toothers could not, but most of them
fell in front of the ticket,that is, but we know that the
Orejuela brothers said that she cannot beany woman they wanted. He eats a
clear thing. What happens is thatmore interested Rodríguez Orejuela, I have the
(16:52):
opportunity to go to the house whereGilberto Rodríguez Orejuela is captured I go with
his eldest son, with Fernando RodríguezMondragón. When I entered the house where
Gilberto was captured, it was justas the shoes had captured him. In
fact, I looked at some leathershoes and underneath said Gilberto Rodrigo, that
is, he sent to be theshoes with his own name, that Alberto
(17:17):
had a beautiful letter. I mean, surely he was a very good pupil
of children, I imagine a beautifuldivine fin, but he was a learned
man, he was a read man. Then he needed that the old women
who took him were not hollow,they were old women who had conversations about
(17:37):
art politics. In other words,he demanded that. Gilberto already, Miguel
was crazier, he was more lockMiguel was already crazier. But in fact,
Miguel, his ex- wife,is a queen of Valle del Cauca,
one of the queens of Valle delCauca. She was one of Miguel
' s women, who is theone left alive, who is still priced
(17:59):
and left alive because Gilberto died abouta year and a half ago, and
it' s true that one ofthe demands. That' s where we
read a part of the book thatsaid they couldn' t be country girls.
Or they made that bad recommendation.Of course, Madan Rochi could not
bring her country women because they werealready in the cartel war. So that
(18:19):
was crazy. So it was themost beautiful of all, because they would
believe that they infiltrated them and thenkill them There was already that war.
Then all the women who went couldnot be from Medellin or Paisa. They
all had to get them on theoutside. However, since she wasn'
(18:44):
t the only customers that had MadameRochi. For example, I name that
chain ranon in the eyes when Iwas the General of the Republic. Right,
and it turns out she puts Nataliain Paris? Let us remember that
Van Rochi brings Natalia to Paris,which, by the way, we are
here at a conciliation in the prosecutionand I remember very much that Natalia Paris
(19:11):
is late with Abelardo of the star. We were all waiting for that conciliation
and it turns out that Natalia entersand the office where we were was very
small a little thing. I couldn' t stand the truth and everyone was
sitting like that on the side andI was beside Man Rochi, in the
back, next to the prosecutor.Then Natalia comes in waving to everyone very
(19:33):
decent and then we also greet hervery decently. But when she gets to
where Man Rochi, she gives herselfin the hand and Natalia Paris tells her,
" Lady nice to meet you infront of the prosecutor and Man Rochi,
(19:55):
does it tell you I' mglad to see you again?"
This is crazy, that is,the ability of the woman, that is,
it' s a spectacular chess game, because the one tells her I
don' t know her from theprosecutor' s TV and the other tells
her I' m glad to seeyou again, or it' s a
literature thing. She understands me fromfilm, from film, because she says
(20:15):
one, these old women are andindeed she, that is, all her
life in her last years, fromMadame Rotchi, from Consuelo García González,
from Carolina Duarte, as she wasknown in the world of the mafia,
was one clear, the same person, the players, that she all her
(20:37):
life. It served this even inthe days when we wrote the book,
because to see, when we wrotethe book, pimping is a crime in
Colombia, then she wanted to appearwhen writing the book that she was not
exercising her table because she already lookedBelardo de la Estriella discovers a girl,
(21:03):
I think that a little of thosethousand. I don' t know how
Santanderian she was working on those days. Then there he wanted to nail her
to watch over the star and whathappened to it. There' s a
pandering process for Madam Rotchie. Idon' t know. That never prospered.
I remember talking about the star,when he realizes that I know enough
(21:26):
about his relationship with the paramilitaries,the guy meets me one day over there
in the area where he has hisoffice and desists from the demand for Madandroche,
Natalia Paris, among others. BecauseI remember Natalia Paris, when that
(21:51):
war began, that was media.That we showed up the media, we
looked like a Hollywood star, wedropped the spotlight and it turns out that
we discovered that Natalia Paris had madean agreement with Colombian justice because her husband
Alias had disappeared. I don't know what the truth was the husband,
(22:14):
the father of Natalia Paris' child, a drug dealer who disappears and
tells him the justice to work morewords, less. You don' t
get me into this anymore, now, but we found out that he went
on, that he went on withmanes narcos. Then the thing was warming
up on the side where he leftwas going to warm up. So they
(22:34):
say let' s get this oneover with and that mess is over.
They really desist from the lawsuit and, apart from Natela Paris, that more
lawsuits fell to friends Aura Christina Gayner, I think a girl, but I
have come out the wife of theGiraldo guy that I don' t remember
the woman, but yes, Inever knew, neither by name, nor
(22:56):
by colleague, nor anything. Iknew her and I don' t think
any more. I don' tremember, I don' t remember any
more. And now Cristina has cometo us. We met with Aura Christina
Gayner, we reconciled. I don' t remember. There was no retraction,
(23:18):
which was what they asked of us, there was no retraction. She
wanted to come and the truth is, the editor didn' t agree that
we should talk. And there Itook man Roche and took her to one
side and said come on, becausenow Cristina was very decent with us.
It wasn' t rude, itwas dear. Actually, a spectacularly beautiful
(23:40):
woman Aura, Cristina Gayner is stilla very pretty woman and she behaved very
well. Then I told him no, because besides, I had never had
the judicial son and do not believethat one wears it, of course,
not only economically, but that onewears it out having to attend to that
(24:00):
one. I told him no.We' re getting out of this.
We' re getting out of this,' cause this isn' t good.
Alfredo, and just as you saythat Natalia seemed or said she didn
' t know Mom Rotchi, therewas another one who did the same thing,
some also acting the same and otherssaid no. I' m not
other people who took care of thattopic and I jockeyly say to someone else
(24:23):
we rewinded them, to others wegave life, because they appeared among the
celebrities who were in that book.And then look. The narcos were laughing.
Here' s a feature and peoplealways ask me good and you weren
' t afraid the narcos would killhim. You didn' t add up
to laughing. They were happy.They were happy, of course they said.
I then had the opportunity to bewith Fulana and Soltar is that look
(24:47):
at a characteristic that has seemed verysuggestive in my entire journalistic life and as
a writer, researcher. Confessed pricks, drug dealers, mobsters, those manners
tell you. I committed the crime. Yeah, you know what I mean.
(25:10):
Instead, the other white- collarbandits have never committed a crime.
They never recognize their crime. Theseconfessors are worse, at least they tell
the truth. Those who are likethis in Colombia never say. That wasn
' t all behind my back.No one recognizes that drug money went into
the campaigns, but everyone had andate of it. That' s a
(25:33):
difference between those two worlds. Youalso expressed in the book that there were
many who sponsored the same queens withinthere was even one who had of thirty
had twenty- eight sponsored by him. Of course what happens is that this
reign of Cartagenas, which was alsoanother great denunciation that we were doing there
between the lines. That became ascoundrel, because they started moving a lot,
(25:59):
a lot more millions to watch thoseevents end up being carnivals. As
usual. We' ve made acarnival country. Every weekend there is a
carnival anywhere in the country. Thenthey take as an excuse that event for
the farra and for the overflow andfor the rumba and for the madness.
(26:22):
This was no exception. God knowsthe secrets. If she' s already
dead, I think her name isDoña Tera, that' s the mother
of an angle raimundo. The organizersof what they would see, what they
saw, what they saw there werereigns that lay down others that were bought
there, there were queens that werenever queens because there was silver in between,
(26:44):
that is always and in all thereigns of Colombia. Then appeared the
reigns of the cassava, of thePope, of the banana, of the
corn, of the rose, reignof the donkey in that way, because
all those reigns were in Banknote andin the villages, for example, in
the area of the Esmeraldas, whichis the richest area of Colombia, the
(27:07):
Jemelanterojonos, who have the most silverin this country, all the silver in
the world, they make full reignsand then the most beautiful girls carry them.
They buy them. It' scrazy, it' s a women
' s marketing business in Colombia.This thing that has happened, i e,
prepaid, never lost its validity.The prepaid issue. It' s
(27:30):
worse today. Today is worse andmany moms willing for the ticket to have
their girls there. That was alsosomething that I saw Marrochi make a statement.
I was telling a very famous televisionpresenter in Colombia. I was telling
her not to be ungrateful and Iwas telling her a lot of her moms
(27:53):
are the way they are and theyhave what they have. So by the
management that I did and by whatyou did the services that you provided.
And it' s just that Manchiwasn' t just anyone. She was
a woman who had training in law, that is, law from a prestigious
university, that is, she's a lawyer without a degree. She
(28:14):
knew her sisters are magistrates of theRepublic, that is, Marrochin was not
a vagrancy. That way, then, that came to be done was no
longer a woman who had besides itseems that never practiced prostitution, that is,
man Rochi saw the business very buoyant, fabulous and look that those modeling
(28:34):
houses there covertly still today lend themselvesfor that, those wet houses, because
he keeps seeing, that is,traquitos there all the time. What changed
that the manes are no longer visinlesthat the manes no longer want to be
in the magazine or not they alreadywant to pass down, soft, fungi,
(29:00):
but continue to enjoy. And that' s what happened in Colombia.
Look at all the scandals every weekendthey caught alias. I don' t
know what over there on the island, I don' t know what.
With so many girls there are somany guys, those vallenato singers and artists
in Colombia sang to all those peopleall the time and won and still earn
money at private parties, whatever theyask for with traquetos. Alfredo, speaking
(29:23):
of that underground, all these millionswho paid for a night or a while
with her how they legalized themselves,they were never effective there, they never
hid ah Well, I remember inthe book I talk about a man who
chose a check, a certain beles. I think he' s the one
who wrote the checks. Amán Rochiknocked her down and told Rodríguez Orejuel and
(29:45):
Rodríguez Sodora told him to pay him, because he paid him. And he
had to go pay man Roche becausethe Rodriguez Lola told him to pay or
pay him. But those moneys areall cash. Nothing counts, you never
see, Alfredo, how you getto that story. It' s Gordo
(30:06):
Lindo prison, Alfredo tells me,look there' s a lady. So,
so, so, so, so, so, you give me the
data and we communicate. And that' s the story. To me the
story gives me the Cute Fat inItagüi prison, when they were before being
extradited, because they were extradited thoseparamilitary chiefs, that the Cute Fat was
not chief. For me Terra hadbought him that, that franchise that then
(30:30):
the justice would give him more expensiveand the fat guy pays all those years
and now he got out of jailrecently and I think he' s thinking
he' s also going out inan irregular way and that' s where
he is. I don' tknow lost I never heard from him again,
but I get that story there.That' s why I say that
from the prison of my prison visitsI took out four books when I visited
(30:51):
the Palametares, among other things.That' s why I know and it
has a lot to do with thisissue, both of Abelardo de la Estrella,
because Abelardo is the one who suesme with Natalia to Paris this book
and gets a scoundrel judge of theRepublic to take out the book three months
of circulation, ninety days, somethingI' ve never seen in the country
(31:11):
and I think he doesn' thave a couple because here they violate freedom
of the press, of information.All this was violated and they did not
care for the power that already managedto see them from the stars, which
was the proxy of Natalia Paris.We are going there precisely as when this
whole story begins that you are meetingwith that Mrs Madan Rotchi, you begin
(31:33):
to tell her come I had morethan I think you voted a number.
I think five zero women in mycatalog. What starts to happen to Alfredo
Serrano when he starts to say ayyo to her. I' ve seen
her already. This is Fulanita,this sultanita, because she was not only
the queen model of the national reign, which is Miss Fulana, who almost
(31:56):
little know her, but also presenters. Now let' s say people of
the known farandula, for look whatone is then to see. For me
the subject was new. I wasnever a Farandula reporter starting with that.
I was never Farandula' s,but it took me. Let' s
say the strength that the book hasfor me and it must have had the
(32:19):
book, that it didn' t, unfortunately, is that I wanted to
denounce that behavior. Let' ssay such beautiful women in Colombia who didn
' t have any need for that. You do understand me clearly, among
other things, because they were verywell placed at work. They were successful
(32:39):
girls and in a perversion let's say it reflects a society that later
came without tetanus. There is paradiseand everything we knew after what was the
degeneration, let' s say ofthat now almost inevitable, because it was
one of the so- called,of the facets to this day very strong,
(33:01):
of what leaves the native culture inColombia, of everything that he saw.
He was one of those who sawwhich one took him most by surprise,
because I think none. I don' t think any of them stopped
getting in before that for safety.She didn' t want to put security
in what way, because of threatsthat killed her. Look there was a
(33:22):
very pretty queen of Santander, andI remember she was very pretty because it
caught my attention. I' ma Saintanderian and we' re not brown.
We in Santander are white, unlessthey are Barranqueños, that the Barranqueños
are the browns of Santander. We' re not white. But this girl
was a dark- haired brunette almostlike a beautiful Amazon and more at the
(33:47):
time Did they steal that girl's reign? You stole that girl'
s reign? I was hanging outwith a guy I don' t remember
who was here from a mafia inDenmark, Boyacá and Santander, which is
a mafia that has been little talkedabout, a lot of power where the
prisons are put in there. It' s crazy, but they were very
(34:07):
dangerous. So Ma Rochi, son, I don' t talk about that
old lady and they kill me.Then we didn' t put her in,
and I don' t want toname her either. We didn'
t put her in. And ithas been many others, some because they
were very much in her heart.In her affection, Madan Rochi' s,
one became friends with the people youdon' t work with. He
didn' t become a friend.Then he wanted to protect them and so
(34:30):
several did not leave Alfredo, butyou came to write of the paramilitaries of
ilse la cat. How he gavethis story credence. Not because you came
from being a very robust journalist andat the moment someone tells you it'
s not that Fulanita and Sultanita aresleeping with the biggest bosses in Colombia.
(34:51):
You what evidence asks you for orwhat seen that led you to believe that
if it was true, it isthat the first thing you have to be
as a journalist is that the sourceis accurate and you will see and I
had two or three sources that toldme is true. She serves the Cali
Poster. So I said let's do it and when life starts to
(35:12):
show the albums and talk all wetalked about is that if one really said
if the old lady had told itall it had been crazy. She even
makes a second book Women prepaid somethingso that nothing happened with that book.
Moreover, it was that a kingalmost that what we do not publish,
she publishes it and throws it there, but more seeing as the commercial theme
and more seeing as the topic alreadyof silver, of silver that I really
(35:37):
do not know how much she couldwin. The only thing he won was
a stolen one. It was mebecause not only does the editor steal from
me with the stripping of the booksthat the Chamber denounced to you, as
Bogotá did, and that there isa reconciliation all crap there. But the
old lady also steals from me becauseshe is captured by a venezuela who is
(36:00):
a scoundrel named Miguel Sierra Alta.With that guy it was that they did
the business in America. I meetwith a great journalist in Colombia. I
tell him Look Brother, this andtells me no if that kind of grave
like twenty artists from Colombia. Sheis famous, He has a company in
Miami called Latin angels He is aVenezuelan they take her to live in Miami,
(36:23):
Among other things, she falls inMiami to the pastor that Alfredo Tascón,
a drug dealer who redeems his grief. It converts to Christianity. He
' s a Christian pastor, andwhat I knew was that he' s
a long way off. I lookedat a favor you want. No,
(36:45):
it probably gives her how to livethere, and she doesn' t mess
with me anymore. Please, Imean, I don' t want to
anymore, this is past history forme. I don' t want you
to name me anymore. I don' t want to. Such is more
unofficially, to say the following.Madan Rochie must be in Colombia. I
don' t know where he is. She was the front page of the
(37:09):
United States and was declared an interdictby her sisters, who are magistrates of
the Republic. That' s thelast thing I knew about Madame Rochi.
He hasn' t seen him again. I don' t want to see
her again in my life. Idon' t want to see her in
my life. Why the front?Why not,' cause I' ve
got a lot of trouble for him. Well, man, yeah, we
(37:30):
' re both partners in a project. We' re supposed to be in
that project as partners. Turns outthey sell him that univision story and steal
from me. So, a personof that category doesn' t deserve one
to follow their path. I hadthe chance in Miami to sue univision,
(37:52):
some lawyers, a Jewish buffet whoput me a son of a very well
- economic Colombian girl there very dear. You know what it' s worth
to pay for lawyer in the UnitedStates and we came to the conclusion that
a million dollars, which was whatI intended was, that is, they
were charging because there are people whoare used to hundred two hundred million dollar
(38:16):
lawsuits and a univision was going toput their legal apparatus in because they defend
themselves trying to see who was rightin copyright issues. And finally, I
took off and I did good.Today univision, I can sell stories,
univision to Telemundo. I' malive and I' m still selling.
(38:37):
I had the great success of thetheft of the century in Netflix, which
was a wonderful thing. And Ikeep on selling and I keep on producing
and I keep writing stories and Ikeep on right, that is, in
life when you act right, let' s say, even the first thing
(38:59):
that journalists in Colombia, colleagues doubtedthat my story was credible. They doubted
that this character named Madame Rochi wasfiction, that it was not a story,
that it was a story that Ihad invented, not us, in
the spectator and with Gustavo Gómez orderedthe radio, we took out Madan Rochi
and we showed the country that,indeed, she the one that existed clear
(39:21):
now, she was not called ManRochi. She was Carolina Duarte. Consuelo
García González' s name for Pilaand Carolina Duarte was the name he handled
with the Rodríguez Orejuels in Cali.Madame Rochi we did not invent it José
Vicente Cataraín and Alfrededo Serrano. Whycatarain when he saw the story, because
(39:45):
the guy better said I adapted anoffice for me to write the story with
Manrochi there in the publishing house andthe old lady came and we recorded and
then José Vicente me if it isthe madame. Is it Madame? She
' s the madam, and thenshe tells me about a pimp in Cartagena
(40:07):
years before, named Rochi, whodies the killer. I don' t
remember what happened, but she diesand then I tell Katarain how. It
seems to me that I finish rorochino ends me. Consueling of saying this
and this and telling me Man Rochand Madan Rochi left her. Then,
(40:28):
very skillfully it says in the mediathat she was Madan Rochi lies She was
a character or for the book.It is born as Ursula is born in
the book of one hundred years ofsolea. In the same way it is
one she is born as Man Rochiin the literary work. There she was
(40:49):
born as a mandochino, as shesaid in the media, that she,
she was man rochi and tar shewas already thinking of looking, because this
is used a lot. How dowe get the writer out of the way,
for me direct story to take awaywhat he earned that what they finally
did. Who is Carolina Educate,then what a story she has. She
(41:10):
was a law student at Free Universityand I think she finished subjects and being
very young, she stays in vafrom home. Then she will surely leave,
She an ordinary woman and her sistersare magistrates of the Republic, i
e the father I believe was animportant lord in law. They' re
(41:30):
of origin. Boyasense them and sheends up almost adopted by a journalist by
Giraldo, who was a journalist whoknew him, even many veteran colleagues.
I got muddy friends of mine andI got very brotherly you how to talk
about Giraldo if that mane was thisand this and this. Yes, I
(41:53):
understand he was a very prestigious journalistin Colombia, but the best in this
country. But evil was in it. Then he adopts her and takes her
to the Rodriguez Orejuela. And then, even there is a story, there
with a hermaphrodite that I tell,that she narrates that they take the guy
to this Mr Giraldo. Among otherthings, one of the ones that sues
(42:15):
me is a journalist that I nevermet, Giralto' s wife of that
journalist and that I think everything abouta boy, a girl for the rights
of the girl' s boy.That finally, never prospered that demand for
her. For example, there's something very important there and it'
s apart from the gangster narcoles.Madarrochi said that if not more than half
(42:37):
or half of his clients, theywere honorable congressmen ministers recently crossed a controversy
also of a porn actress who offeredhim x silver that I imagine will come
out the henary of the va Mira. In that go look at the girls.
How they are harassed by journalists whoenter the Republic, who tell what
(43:00):
has happened to them there. Bulliedthe boys look at most of the extra
journalists in the Congress of the Republic. They' re scoundrels. They know
all these truths and no one saysanything. Let' s all be quiet
because we pay well. A journalistwho works in the Congress of the Paid
(43:22):
Republic and lives very well. Theneverybody, hold still. That' s
a relaxing, relaxing, that's that example I just came out of.
That' s how it is inthe Congress of the Republic. Brother,
where there is easy money, thereis decomposition of the human being and
society. It is that the subjecthere is a matter of morality, ethics,
(43:45):
virtue, legality. Our governments areperverted governments. So, here,
within their personal jurisdiction, any ofthese governments do what they do and then
it' s a party and whatthey want is for us all to follow
that same party as they do.That' s a crazy thing. And
(44:07):
all that has to do with thisissue of Prepaid when you talked to the
narcos about this about what those conversationswere like, what they said, Brother,
look at them This was a joy, this was a break for them,
it was a break, it wassomehow like making fun. Let'
(44:31):
s say we know that they,with their power and their money, had
everything at hand and watch eye withthis to a large extent they had the
media information, because if you arethe broadcaster of equi news and have well
(44:52):
- paid billetico of these ways,lesh does any favor, just as simple
as it has to do with thenews item informative. The bill, I
mean how bad it was. Let' s say this, which was one
of my great stays, is travelingby presenting us at the times triple the
news and lying with the mafia,I mean a double moral, if you
(45:17):
understand me, Alfredo, if youdid again I would write this book never
again I would do it, no, because somehow. It was irresponsible and
let' s say professional immaturity.Get me into this because my approach was
(45:37):
different. Unfortunately, it ended updiverting all the approach I wanted, which
was like drawing attention to the factthat this was a country of beautiful women
who had no need and that aculture of prostitution was being created really in
Colombia, which was what I wanted. He ended up in a grotesque sheath
there in a book that didn't even have a correction of this one,
(46:00):
because if you look at that bookhe has a bit of mistakes that
went away because you write, thewriter writes and delivers so that the style
corrector to his work. If youunderstand this, it was never done with
that book and I don' tdo headaches. The truth is, I
won one thing with that Fama book. I didn' t gain any more
(46:22):
fame and trouble. Thanks to Alfredofor having been kay for sharing the experience
and I very much hope that hewill be useful for this program.
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