April 15, 2025 • 35 mins
Welcome to the new world of NIL where 50 states have 50 different rules, your favorite basketball team gets an entirely new roster every season, and that player who was so excited to play for your school left for more money. Having fun yet? Neither are we!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of My Conversation with the Chrises,
and it is a topic that we have covered before,
but it continues to be something that is dominating almost
every headline and call it sports name, image and likeness.
Once again, welcoming to the podcast, Chris Shirley, Chris Byram,
(00:22):
and gentlemen. I want to kind of park here and
talk about this again, but I want to start with basketball,
and surely not to put you on the spot, but
just to kind of, you know, some of the stats
you've been seeing that you've been kind of sharing with
us and our and our tech string on just how
NIL is starting to affect even the quality of the
(00:45):
teams that are in the March madness and and not
necessarily in a good way for the fan, right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, So, I mean during the tournament, you know, we
we were just kind of talking about how it seems
like we are being already the effects of n I
L and the transfer portal and the fact that we
didn't have a Cinderella this year. I mean, every tournament
we have at least one Cinderella that makes, you know,
(01:13):
somewhat of run.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's occasionally a pretty deep ryan, uh.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know, a team that's not necessarily a member of
the Power for Conferences now that's you know, a mid
major or something like.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
That, and we didn't see that this year.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You know, again, this was was this what only the
was this the second time that we've had all four
number ones, you know, make it to the to the
to the final four.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
If I'm not mistaken, at.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Least in the last you know, several years, like it's
just pretty rare. That doesn't happen very often. And you know,
I think I think the reason for both of those
things is is a direct result of n I L
and transfer portal that you know that the teams that
have the deeper pockets and the teams that are in
(02:03):
the Power for Conferences are poaching players from you know,
mid major squads and adding them to their own. And
I think that's I think that's the primary reason why
we didn't see any Cinderellas this year.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Byron, when you look at the history of men's basketball,
and I'll throw out Baylor specifically, our team that we
like to follow, if I made the statement to you,
historically that every single player on the men's basketball team
is gone, not coming back. Not one single player is
(02:37):
returning Historically you would ask what happened, right, was it
some sort of scandal or something that would cause these
athletes to want to transfer? But this seems to be
the new world we're living in. Can you think of
a time maybe when you know, Dave Bliss was coached
and we were making the transition to Scott Drew, But
can you think of a time when but even then
(02:59):
there were some athletes that stuck around. Where every single
basketball player has either graduated, gone pro, or received a
bigger paycheck to go somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
The only other time that this possibly could have happened,
because you're right, under Dave Blessed, we had people stay.
The only other time this possibly could have happened would
be in World War Two, and that was a totally
different reason. This is unprecedented. Now we do have one
kid left, but he is about to announce he's going
into the draft, so that means we will have a
(03:33):
completely brand new roster next year. And it is wild
and wooly. There is something like I read from today,
there's something like nineteen hundred kids who have declared to
go into the portal and basketball, and only four hundred
have found spots and all the spots are quickly going away,
(03:57):
and so you're really wondering what is happening now some
of these kids are going to end up back at
the mid majors. And Chris is exactly right. The power
schools are getting much better. The mid majors. They better
catch on and hang on for one year because that's
all they're going to get.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You know, in the world I was just going to say,
in the world of sales, we have, you know, something
we call fomo, right, fear of missing out. It's very powerful.
It can drive cells. If you have clients that fear
they're going to miss something out, they're more likely to
buy from you, and and you know, buy at.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
A good price.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I feel like this is the world we're in. In
college sports right now, the power is held by the
student athlete, which some would argue. Some would argue that
for too long it's been held by the universities that
the athlete, you know, basically didn't get paid anything, which
I don't. I don't believe that. I mean, they got
a scholarship. I paid for my own college. It wasn't free, okay,
(04:58):
so I know there was a to that. But you know,
surely when you when you think about this, what is
going to be that power dynamic that's going to start
to shift it back because I think right now, I
mean when these kids are getting paid, I mean, what
did the player that went to BYU was reportedly eight
million dollars to go play for BYU. He's leaving Baylor
(05:22):
for eight million dollars to go play I mean this
just seems nuts real quick.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Can we even call them student athletes anymore? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Can we just drop student because that's not what they
are anymore? Right, They're they're just athletes and they're wanting
to get paid to play the game that they enjoy playing.
So we might as well just stop calling them student
athletes in my opinion, Yeah, I mean it's it's and.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
We've talked about this before.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's out of control and until until someone with some
kind of real authority steps in, uh to you know,
to put some boundaries in place. This is this is
the landscape of college athletics now.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I caught on on Fox News this week the
four major conferences, all of their commissioners were together. I
don't know if you guys caught this or not. Brent
Behar had him on his show on Fox on Fox
News to talk about this problem. It was interesting because
sitting in one room, you had the you know, from
(06:27):
left to right, the sec ACC, Big ten Conference, and
the Big twelve Conference, all four of them sitting there,
which I just found incredibly interesting because in some respects,
some of the things they have done have contributed to
the mess we're in. But the problem they're running into,
(06:47):
Byron is and you know, you study law, you understand
you have a good, good kind of take on this situation.
How you know what they're concerned with is each state
continues to pass new laws to benefit recruiting for their colleges.
So this has happened all across the country, and they said,
(07:08):
if the legislator does it, step in, which how sad
is it that college sports is looking to Washington to
solve this? But the argument is that we're going to
have fifty different roles in fifty you know, different states.
Do you think that's sincere? Those four men kind of
unifying behind this, Are we going to once again see that?
(07:29):
And then two conferences start to backstab the other two conferences?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I think it is somewhat sincere because I think they're
freaking out over how much this is costing them. I mean,
I'm hearing numbers that are outrageous. And I think the
other thing that happened here is the more that comes
out of this Tennessee story with their quarterback and what
has happened with him and what he did during the playoffs.
(07:56):
I think they're very concerned because you sign a tract,
you were supposed to honor that contract. Well, because of
all the different state rules, there's no reason to honor
that contract. Just leave. I mean that happened to Baylor
in the last month. Someone signs a contract and they
all shake hands, sign it, and then three weeks later, hey,
(08:19):
I'm leaving. I got a better offer buy. It's crazy
because some schools thought that the basketball top basketball payrels
would grow by a million this year. They're growing in
some cases three to three to four million. And the
question is how long can we do this? Because fan
loyalty is beginning to go away because you like to
(08:43):
root for the same kids year after year, and if
you've got a new roster, it's almost like, what's the
point in this anymore? It's it's hard to keep up.
And I think they are very sincere that they've got
to figure out a way to stop this, and the
only way to do it is to get one set
of rules.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It reminds me, you know, Johnny Football was the face
of the NCAA coming down hard on an athlete that
was basically doing then what is legal now? You know
Johnny Football was making money off of autographs. You know,
he was doing it a different way, but you know,
(09:25):
he's very much about making money doing the little dollar signs,
you know on the sideline. We remember that, you know,
and he left A and M because he knew under
those roles he was not going to be able to
compete anymore. Do you think it's possible this kid from
Tennessee could be the face that starts the change, because
(09:48):
what I find interesting, he's very talented. You know, you
don't get an offer to play for an SEC school
like Tennessee and not be a good athlete. But I
just read this afternoon that North Carolina has said that
we don't want him and other schools. I mean, it
was the you know, the whistleblower. You guys heard this
(10:09):
part of the story. You know who the whistleblower was? Yeah,
and how about that coach? Kudos to him for stepping
up and and you know, rather than just kind of
playing the game, he picked up the phone and called
the Tennessee coach and said, hey, you need to know
your QB one is reaching out, trying to find a
better deal. So could he be the face surely that
(10:32):
that possibly? Can you know, if coaches start to rally
and and and nothing against this kid? I mean, I
know he's done some things and said some things, but
could he be that face of coaches finally saying we
got to unite here? Enough's enough?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Man? I don't, I don't are we at that point yet?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I mean, this is all just kept is just getting started,
you know, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
If you know, the the angst and the frustration and
the anger is at the point where you know, this
this is the one that you know, tips tips the
scales in the in the other.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Direction or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It's crazy to think about. And and you know, when
we think about where this could be, where this can
have to think about greed is the people who are
greedy aren't aren't going to be the ones that come
up with the policy to get the greed under control.
It's maybe not a great example, but you know, you
(11:38):
think about the gambling industry, you know, do they police themselves?
They claim they do, but they really don't. Right, you
have to have some regulations of the casinos, you know.
And I think the same is going to be true.
So the university presidents are never going to step up
(12:00):
and get this under control. The coaches don't have the
power to get in control. So now we're left with
Washington and Byron. Have you seen who the face of
the legislative efforts are?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, make changes in college sports. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
In fact, the two guys working on this across the
hile with each other are Ted Cruz mister, hey, I'm
going to show up and our team will lose, and
Corey Booker, who was a former college football player at Stanford. Yeah.
The odds of this getting done are slim to nine.
And you know, you have to ask yourself this question,
(12:42):
does Ted Cruz really understand college athletics to begin with?
Corey Booker might, but he's going to write it in
a way and slant it in a way that I
guarantee you the college commissioners don't want. And so it's
this is going to be dicey and they may that
was something they don't want. And I will say this,
(13:02):
I do think this whole thing at Tennessee could end
up being a catalyst could because the SEC just took
a hit to their product and they aren't going to
stand for that. By the way, the only two schools
that are talking to that kid right now are too
late in UCLA and he's going to take a hit
(13:24):
on his on his payout because of this. But I
just I hope this gets worked out, because it is insane.
We now go through three periods a year where we
sit and wonder what is our team going to look like?
And recruiting day is now a absolute afterthought, and I
(13:49):
think all three of us could sit there and you know,
remember when we just could not wait to find out
which fax machine had been running and who got this
kid and who got this kid? Right now we don't care.
It's like do we have enough money? Who's our billionaire?
(14:09):
Who's funding this? And it is literally insane. What is
going on in your write, Scott. It's like Ronald Reagan
used to say, the worst phrase you can ever hear
from someone is from someone in the government is saying, Hey,
I'm from the government and I'm here to help because
it's not going to work out all that great, and
(14:31):
I just have a feeling it's only going to get worse.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Let's take the state of Texas for an example, so
we can do just a little bit deeper dive as
to why somebody has to step in and police this. Okay,
So the two largest schools University of Texas Austin and
Texas A and M. Anybody know, I don't know this,
but what's their estimated nil purse right now?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay? I can tell you that Xa's the last two
years has been roughly twenty to twenty.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Five twenty to twenty five million.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Twenty to twenty five million. That is football A and
M has been close to that. The problem is the
A and M makes really cool decisions, Jimbo, But yeah,
that's the rumor has been that Texas and Ohio State
were the two highest paying programs north of twenty to
twenty five million.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, so twenty five million for Austin. Let's just say
we'll just guess and say twenty million for football for
A and M. Maybe less, I don't know. And then
let's talk about your two biggest private schools. And nothing
against some of these other schools. I'm not going to
talk about when we could talk about tech. They've made
some splash recently. But let's talk about Baylor and TCU.
(15:48):
What is TCUs in a nil budget right now?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Anybody? No? From what? Okay? I'm just telling you the
rumors I've heard, because neither really releases what's going on
with the football pro right, I have heard for both
that they're spending around eight to ten a year, eight
to ten million. I do know that Baylor's basketball, if
(16:14):
you're interested, runs somewhat between six and eight, which is
pretty high. TCUs is for basketball is not that high.
In fact, TCU actually goes more in on women's than
they do on men's basketball, but that's about where they spend.
So there's a massive spin differential there.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
All right.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So with that information in mind, and I'll start with you, Shirley,
you're trying to solve this problem. Let's say again for
this example, we're just going to make it like it's
a Texas thing and not a US thing so we
can kind of get our mind around it. So let's
say you're the governor of Texas and you're trying to
solve it. So you have the big state schools that
(16:57):
will come to you and they'll make an argument, how
we're the big state schools. We want to you know,
control this. It's getting out of hand. So if you
did a deal to for the state school's cap it
at a certain amount where all the state schools buy in,
then you have a Baylor and a TCU that want
(17:18):
to be competitive, that feel like they constantly have to
compete against Texas. How are you going to stop them
from spending money? And I mean I'm thinking this example
surely because of what's going on in Provo, Utah right now,
this little not so little private school that's opening up
the checkbook and all of a sudden, you know, taking
(17:39):
players from Baylor and other big schools because they can.
You know, it's that dynamic between public and private universities
that also makes us complicated.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You would have to determine a cap for football, for basketball,
for baseball, or just in IL in general that would
apply to both, you know, public and private universities. You know,
under the underneath this this state analogy, if you will
(18:11):
to to level you know, kind of level the playing field,
although it wouldn't really be level, right because the state
schools are always going to be able to spend more
than the private schools because they have a much larger
alumni base. Right, So I don't think you're I think
it would be rare that you would ever have a
private school, you know, that was going to be out
(18:32):
spending a public school, you know, in any any given
sport at least the you know, at least the two
major sports.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Let's just let's just say that. But number two to to.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Kind of go outside of your analogy, I think I
think the I think we're the I think the problem
with the analogy and the problem with states trying to
deal with this is the fact that, again, they can't
be completely objective, you know, right, They're they're gonna want
they're gonna want their largest state schools to have as
(19:08):
as as as much financial resources as they can possibly
have to be as competitive as possible in any given sport.
And so I think it's it has to be a
you know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
An objective third party that has real authority.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And you know, again, if that's if that's Congress, if
that is a you know, a completely revamped n C
double A that actually has a thord, has governing authority,
and it has teeth, and it can it will enforce
you know, whatever the governing rules and regulations are as
(19:48):
it relates to n I L You know, I think
I think that's gotta that's got to be the solution.
It's got to go outside of the states, because the
states are just going to stack the deck in favor
of their largest state schools. That's just what they're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
The NFL, by room, for a long time, didn't really
have a salary cap. I don't think we saw you know,
this kind of out of control spending as we're seeing,
you know on the college level. But there's also less
competition in the NFL. There was only certain a number
of teams, and there was an argument to be made
that you know, back in those days, you know those days,
(20:26):
teams like you know, the Cowboys Jerry Jones can just
keep riding out checks, keep righting out checks, keep right
out checks, win championships. So, you know, I'm thinking, and
I'm wondering, just kind of a little thought here, isn't
it going to take the Blue Dogs, the Ohio States,
the University of Texas, Alabama, maybe Oklahoma, you know, some
(20:48):
of these bigger name schools, Michigan coming together almost as
a way of saying, we're going to start our own
conference and put a cap, you know, some sort of
salary cap per team, because I think, you know, the
thing that scares the Baylors of the world is getting
(21:09):
left out of the major conference and the TV deals
and that kind of money. That's what scares them. I
mean BYU was independent forever before they joined the Big twelve.
You know, every time there's realignment, it's Baylor fans. We
get scared at the thought of, you know, not being
able to be in a major conference. So do you
think that is what's going to solve it? Because I
think we all agree, we've already said it. Washington's probably
(21:31):
not going to solve this.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Well, it could. Everybody thought the House Settlement would solve
it because the House Settlement supposedly says you've got to
spend twenty million a year, that's the max for all
your sports. But now there's you know, people thinking, nah,
they're going to be able to figure out how to
how to beat that. You know, it could end up
(21:54):
because I think what the SEC would love to do
with the Big ten is limit themselves to four conferences
and force Notre Dame to join one. Of them, and
then all of the major championships come out of that
four and the SEC and Big Ten wouldn't mind that
too much because they would dominate it and most of
(22:16):
the money would naturally go to them. But I think
as long as there is a demand for sports on
the air, there is a reason why Fox and ESPN
want to have at least three major conferences out there,
right so it it could solve it. But I think
the SEC and Big Ten are definitely going to put
(22:37):
themselves in the situation where they can spend more, where
they can be in a better situation. We saw that
with basketball this year, because all of a sudden, the
SEC turns into a really good basketball conference. And how
did they do that? They spent their way to it.
And so we're just gonna have to see will there
(22:59):
be any any break on this at all? And honestly,
I think there's so many people in the kitchen that
it's going to be really difficult to figure out how
to get a break going.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
On this question to both of you, whoever wants to
answer it first, what's the breaking point for Baylor University
when for so long, you know, they went through years
when their football program probably lost money, but they saw
the long term effect of having games on television, you know,
(23:36):
as a marketing employee, to bring students on campus. But
if you're looking at a spreadsheet and you start to
see this tick tick of what it costs to have
a good football team or a good basketball team are
women's basketball team, and you start to see, you know,
the networks wanting to really pay less and less and
(23:56):
keep renegotiating those deals. What point is there going to
be a board of regents in the future that looks
at this and says, yeah, we're out. We're not going
to be in the Big twelve anymore. We'll go to
a lower conference. We'll still have football games, you know,
we'll still offer scholarships, but we're done with this. Do
(24:17):
you think it would ever get so bad that a
Baylor or a TCU would say that.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I don't think so, because what I constantly hear is
that Baylor looks at the spreadsheet and says that the
money we get back on this and the publicity we
get back on this far exceeds what we're having to pay.
I think they might eventually, though, have to make a decision,
do we really focus on one sport above the other.
(24:46):
And you know, do we truly go basketball over football?
And I think they may have to just be very
very choosy on which sport they want to spend on.
And that's what some schools are doing now. Quite frankly,
BYU is going all in on men's basketball. They want
to be competitive there. They think it's easier to be
(25:07):
competitive there, So that could be the end result. But
that's kind of what I'm here.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, I don't really I don't really know if there's
a point at which, you know, we have to decide
we can no longer you know, compete at this level
as far as NIL is concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
But you know, I kind of want to piggyback off
of something.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That Byron just ended with, and that is, you know,
going in it's easier, at least maybe from BYU's perspective
right now, putting so much financial resources into the men's
basketball program because it's easier to compete with, you know,
(25:53):
given money in the basketball program.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think while that that all that may.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Be true because obviously you're only having to h you know,
fund you know what, twelve players, you know, ten to
twelve players, right, uh, And so that is going to
be easier in a way. But I'll just speak from
you know how how I'm feeling sitting here, you know,
(26:22):
after hearing the news that Ojenrena is going to be
transferring like he was the last player from this last
year squad and looking at a picture of this year's
basketball team with an ex through every single player that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Was on the team this year.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
That is again like that just blows my mind that
that's even happened. But from a from a fan standpoint,
you're right, I do want to be able to follow
some of these kids throughout their college career. And I
I want to follow kids that are there for you know,
(27:02):
in our program for multiple years.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Well maybe that's just not going.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
To happen anymore of basketball, which makes me as a fan,
want to follow football that much more because those are
the kids just because of sheer numbers, right, those are
the kids that you are going to have in your
program for multiple years that you are going to be
able to follow.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And yeah, you're going.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
To sprinkle in, you know, here and there when there's
a need at a skilled position, you know, a transfer
portal player. But you know, we're we're getting our our
third going into our third year of getting to watch
Sawyer Robertson, you know, and and uh and some of
these other guys that have they played last year and
they're playing again this year, and like there, you know,
(27:48):
there's a lot of excitement and momentum building for our
football team this year because of players. Not that we
added to the transfer portal this year or that we
recruited this year, but because of players that were on
our team this last year and how they improved throughout
the season. We all watched that and we all saw it,
(28:08):
and so we're going into the season going, man, I
can't wait. I can't wait to see how good this
team might be. Man, we might compete for a Big
twelve championship this year. As whereas you know, I'm glad
that we're getting players for basketball through the portal, but
I do not feel the same way whatsoever, because I
don't even know who these guys are, because none of
(28:29):
them are my team last year. Right, So, like from
a from a fan standpoint, from a pure fan standpoint, man,
it might be easier to build a basketball roster a
by pouring money into nil for basketball, yeah, it will be.
But from a from like a fan, pure enjoyment excitement standpoint,
(28:52):
like I just I can't get excited about players that
I have no idea who they are and never watched
them before. And you you cross your fingers and you
hope that your coach and your coaching staff are good
enough to get these players to gel over the course
of a very short season, you know. So like this
(29:16):
is ruining for me the fan experience as it relates
to basketball.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And how do you have a culture of joy?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You don't. You can't build a culture not you can't
in just a few months.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's impossible.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And remember joy is Jesus others and then yourself. Where
does I want eight million dollars to play fit in
Jesus others and then yourself. It's an interesting thought and
it makes me wonder if Scott Drew is really gonna
call it quit. It's not you know, retire, because he's
going to be you know, like Nick Saban and reach
a point that says, this is not the same game
(29:50):
I used to coach. I have a final thought, and
then if you guys have one more thing. My final
thought is this culture in college sports and what we've
seen actually started at the university long before it became
a problem on the field, on the athletic field. And
I can prove my point by saying this, Chris Byron,
when did you go to Baylor?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I need you here from in the late eighties.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Late eighties? What was your dorm experience like at Baylor University?
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Did you know any different though?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It was just it was That's what the choices were.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Did you have a fancy little kitchen in your dorm?
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No? No, I had a half of room and it
was I look back on it now, I would never
do that again.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And what was the mill plan like at Baylor? How
many options did you have for food? You?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Okay? Well that helped. I lived close to my parents.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Counting that I'm talking about you, okay, surely What years
did you go to Baylor?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Ninety three to ninety seven?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay? And what was a dorm life like for you?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'd agree experience with my hall when I lived in
the norma freshman year. I just lived in norma freshman year,
and then my roommate for my freshman year and two
other guys that were on our hall moved into an
apartment you know together, So.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
You had great friends but what was the dorm itself?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Was it fancy? Did it have fancy bells and whistles?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean it was a platform with you know, two
beds and it had a sink and you know, community
shower like that was it? You know?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
That was my experience. I didn't go to to Baylor.
I went to Howard Payne, simple dorm, shared shower and
you know you had a phone that you know, you
were lucky. We had phones in each room. Byron, you
probably had a phone in one in the hallway.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I'm I'm just kidding, as that's not far from the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Have you seen what it's like on campus at Baylor
University today in the.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Dorms I went to school in the ancient day, Scott, Yes,
I have, and it's pathetically it's pathetically amazing to see
what they have now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So what is real life? Because when we all graduated
from university and we got our first job, we were
not making much money. We're out on our own. We
probably lived in some place that we wouldn't want to
live in today. It's like I tell my kids when
they you know, I've got one in college, one getting
ready to go to college and I keep you know,
(32:26):
they're like, oh, I want to you know, look what
your mom and I have we didn't have when we
first got married, right, We worked hard, we built it.
We lived in a tiny little duplex that we complained
because it was three seventy five a month in rent.
What I wouldn't kill you know for that today. My
point in saying that is somewhere along the way, I
don't know what university did it first, but we don't
(32:47):
send our kids to university anymore. We send them to resorts. Now,
I'm not saying there's not hard classes and they have
to work hard and they're not earning their education. I'm
just saying these college campuses are like going to a fancy,
four star resort, the mill plans, the dorms, all of
the amenities they have, which I think is not real life.
(33:10):
And it answers a question that people like, why is
education more expensive? Why is it outpacing inflation? Well, take
a look, because you're not sending your kid to university,
You're sending them to a four star resort. So is
it any surprise when for a couple of decades now
these universities continue to pour money and keep up with
(33:32):
the Jones. And then it was like, once we had
the nice dorms, then it had to be the nice stadiums.
And now we have to build stadiums with suites. And listen,
I love McClean Stadium. It's an awesome facility right on
the river. But you know it's not the stadium. When
you guys went to Baylor, right, you know, you went
to the men's restroom, it was the troft. Right now
(33:53):
you got all this fancy stuff. Is he you know,
all the these kids is to what we're teaching them?
And is it any wonder that we reach a point
where now it's like now I want to get paid,
and now I want to get paid more, and now
I want to get paid more, and it just seems
to be insanity. Do you guys agree with that? I mean,
this has been a problem even before it reached the
athletic field.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, all right, that's my soapbox. Surely before we wrap up,
do you have one more thing for us tonight?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
All right?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So I saw this this morning. I don't think I
sent this to y'all. So, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Baylor, of men's basketball greats of recent years. So former
Baylor center Eves Mesee has put together an incredible rookie campaign,
averaging nine point one points, eight point two rebounds in
one point three blocks for his first rookie season. So
(34:51):
congrats to Eves me C will probably end up probably
not first team All Rookie, but probably second team All Rookie, so.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Good for him.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
That's great, all right, Byron, you got anything else?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I'm good man?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
All right, he go Rangers for Chris. Byron, Chris Shirley,
I'm Scott Miller until next time. So long, everybody,
Welcome to another edition of My Conversation with the Chrises,
and it is a topic that we have covered before,
but it continues to be something that is dominating almost
every headline and call it sports name, image and likeness.
Once again, welcoming to the podcast, Chris Shirley, Chris Byram,
(00:22):
and gentlemen. I want to kind of park here and
talk about this again, but I want to start with basketball,
and surely not to put you on the spot, but
just to kind of, you know, some of the stats
you've been seeing that you've been kind of sharing with
us and our and our tech string on just how
NIL is starting to affect even the quality of the
(00:45):
teams that are in the March madness and and not
necessarily in a good way for the fan, right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, So, I mean during the tournament, you know, we
we were just kind of talking about how it seems
like we are being already the effects of n I
L and the transfer portal and the fact that we
didn't have a Cinderella this year. I mean, every tournament
we have at least one Cinderella that makes, you know,
(01:13):
somewhat of run.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's occasionally a pretty deep ryan, uh.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know, a team that's not necessarily a member of
the Power for Conferences now that's you know, a mid
major or something like.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
That, and we didn't see that this year.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You know, again, this was was this what only the
was this the second time that we've had all four
number ones, you know, make it to the to the
to the final four.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
If I'm not mistaken, at.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Least in the last you know, several years, like it's
just pretty rare. That doesn't happen very often. And you know,
I think I think the reason for both of those
things is is a direct result of n I L
and transfer portal that you know that the teams that
have the deeper pockets and the teams that are in
(02:03):
the Power for Conferences are poaching players from you know,
mid major squads and adding them to their own. And
I think that's I think that's the primary reason why
we didn't see any Cinderellas this year.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Byron, when you look at the history of men's basketball,
and I'll throw out Baylor specifically, our team that we
like to follow, if I made the statement to you,
historically that every single player on the men's basketball team
is gone, not coming back. Not one single player is
(02:37):
returning Historically you would ask what happened, right, was it
some sort of scandal or something that would cause these
athletes to want to transfer? But this seems to be
the new world we're living in. Can you think of
a time maybe when you know, Dave Bliss was coached
and we were making the transition to Scott Drew, But
can you think of a time when but even then
(02:59):
there were some athletes that stuck around. Where every single
basketball player has either graduated, gone pro, or received a
bigger paycheck to go somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
The only other time that this possibly could have happened,
because you're right, under Dave Blessed, we had people stay.
The only other time this possibly could have happened would
be in World War Two, and that was a totally
different reason. This is unprecedented. Now we do have one
kid left, but he is about to announce he's going
into the draft, so that means we will have a
(03:33):
completely brand new roster next year. And it is wild
and wooly. There is something like I read from today,
there's something like nineteen hundred kids who have declared to
go into the portal and basketball, and only four hundred
have found spots and all the spots are quickly going away,
(03:57):
and so you're really wondering what is happening now some
of these kids are going to end up back at
the mid majors. And Chris is exactly right. The power
schools are getting much better. The mid majors. They better
catch on and hang on for one year because that's
all they're going to get.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You know, in the world I was just going to say,
in the world of sales, we have, you know, something
we call fomo, right, fear of missing out. It's very powerful.
It can drive cells. If you have clients that fear
they're going to miss something out, they're more likely to
buy from you, and and you know, buy at.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
A good price.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I feel like this is the world we're in. In
college sports right now, the power is held by the
student athlete, which some would argue. Some would argue that
for too long it's been held by the universities that
the athlete, you know, basically didn't get paid anything, which
I don't. I don't believe that. I mean, they got
a scholarship. I paid for my own college. It wasn't free, okay,
(04:58):
so I know there was a to that. But you know,
surely when you when you think about this, what is
going to be that power dynamic that's going to start
to shift it back because I think right now, I
mean when these kids are getting paid, I mean, what
did the player that went to BYU was reportedly eight
million dollars to go play for BYU. He's leaving Baylor
(05:22):
for eight million dollars to go play I mean this
just seems nuts real quick.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Can we even call them student athletes anymore? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Can we just drop student because that's not what they
are anymore? Right, They're they're just athletes and they're wanting
to get paid to play the game that they enjoy playing.
So we might as well just stop calling them student
athletes in my opinion, Yeah, I mean it's it's and.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
We've talked about this before.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's out of control and until until someone with some
kind of real authority steps in, uh to you know,
to put some boundaries in place. This is this is
the landscape of college athletics now.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I caught on on Fox News this week the
four major conferences, all of their commissioners were together. I
don't know if you guys caught this or not. Brent
Behar had him on his show on Fox on Fox
News to talk about this problem. It was interesting because
sitting in one room, you had the you know, from
(06:27):
left to right, the sec ACC, Big ten Conference, and
the Big twelve Conference, all four of them sitting there,
which I just found incredibly interesting because in some respects,
some of the things they have done have contributed to
the mess we're in. But the problem they're running into,
(06:47):
Byron is and you know, you study law, you understand
you have a good, good kind of take on this situation.
How you know what they're concerned with is each state
continues to pass new laws to benefit recruiting for their colleges.
So this has happened all across the country, and they said,
(07:08):
if the legislator does it, step in, which how sad
is it that college sports is looking to Washington to
solve this? But the argument is that we're going to
have fifty different roles in fifty you know, different states.
Do you think that's sincere? Those four men kind of
unifying behind this, Are we going to once again see that?
(07:29):
And then two conferences start to backstab the other two conferences?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I think it is somewhat sincere because I think they're
freaking out over how much this is costing them. I mean,
I'm hearing numbers that are outrageous. And I think the
other thing that happened here is the more that comes
out of this Tennessee story with their quarterback and what
has happened with him and what he did during the playoffs.
(07:56):
I think they're very concerned because you sign a tract,
you were supposed to honor that contract. Well, because of
all the different state rules, there's no reason to honor
that contract. Just leave. I mean that happened to Baylor
in the last month. Someone signs a contract and they
all shake hands, sign it, and then three weeks later, hey,
(08:19):
I'm leaving. I got a better offer buy. It's crazy
because some schools thought that the basketball top basketball payrels
would grow by a million this year. They're growing in
some cases three to three to four million. And the
question is how long can we do this? Because fan
loyalty is beginning to go away because you like to
(08:43):
root for the same kids year after year, and if
you've got a new roster, it's almost like, what's the
point in this anymore? It's it's hard to keep up.
And I think they are very sincere that they've got
to figure out a way to stop this, and the
only way to do it is to get one set
of rules.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It reminds me, you know, Johnny Football was the face
of the NCAA coming down hard on an athlete that
was basically doing then what is legal now? You know
Johnny Football was making money off of autographs. You know,
he was doing it a different way, but you know,
(09:25):
he's very much about making money doing the little dollar signs,
you know on the sideline. We remember that, you know,
and he left A and M because he knew under
those roles he was not going to be able to
compete anymore. Do you think it's possible this kid from
Tennessee could be the face that starts the change, because
(09:48):
what I find interesting, he's very talented. You know, you
don't get an offer to play for an SEC school
like Tennessee and not be a good athlete. But I
just read this afternoon that North Carolina has said that
we don't want him and other schools. I mean, it
was the you know, the whistleblower. You guys heard this
(10:09):
part of the story. You know who the whistleblower was? Yeah,
and how about that coach? Kudos to him for stepping
up and and you know, rather than just kind of
playing the game, he picked up the phone and called
the Tennessee coach and said, hey, you need to know
your QB one is reaching out, trying to find a
better deal. So could he be the face surely that
(10:32):
that possibly? Can you know, if coaches start to rally
and and and nothing against this kid? I mean, I
know he's done some things and said some things, but
could he be that face of coaches finally saying we
got to unite here? Enough's enough?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Man? I don't, I don't are we at that point yet?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I mean, this is all just kept is just getting started,
you know, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
If you know, the the angst and the frustration and
the anger is at the point where you know, this
this is the one that you know, tips tips the
scales in the in the other.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Direction or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It's crazy to think about. And and you know, when
we think about where this could be, where this can
have to think about greed is the people who are
greedy aren't aren't going to be the ones that come
up with the policy to get the greed under control.
It's maybe not a great example, but you know, you
(11:38):
think about the gambling industry, you know, do they police themselves?
They claim they do, but they really don't. Right, you
have to have some regulations of the casinos, you know.
And I think the same is going to be true.
So the university presidents are never going to step up
(12:00):
and get this under control. The coaches don't have the
power to get in control. So now we're left with
Washington and Byron. Have you seen who the face of
the legislative efforts are?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, make changes in college sports. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
In fact, the two guys working on this across the
hile with each other are Ted Cruz mister, hey, I'm
going to show up and our team will lose, and
Corey Booker, who was a former college football player at Stanford. Yeah.
The odds of this getting done are slim to nine.
And you know, you have to ask yourself this question,
(12:42):
does Ted Cruz really understand college athletics to begin with?
Corey Booker might, but he's going to write it in
a way and slant it in a way that I
guarantee you the college commissioners don't want. And so it's
this is going to be dicey and they may that
was something they don't want. And I will say this,
(13:02):
I do think this whole thing at Tennessee could end
up being a catalyst could because the SEC just took
a hit to their product and they aren't going to
stand for that. By the way, the only two schools
that are talking to that kid right now are too
late in UCLA and he's going to take a hit
(13:24):
on his on his payout because of this. But I
just I hope this gets worked out, because it is insane.
We now go through three periods a year where we
sit and wonder what is our team going to look like?
And recruiting day is now a absolute afterthought, and I
(13:49):
think all three of us could sit there and you know,
remember when we just could not wait to find out
which fax machine had been running and who got this
kid and who got this kid? Right now we don't care.
It's like do we have enough money? Who's our billionaire?
(14:09):
Who's funding this? And it is literally insane. What is
going on in your write, Scott. It's like Ronald Reagan
used to say, the worst phrase you can ever hear
from someone is from someone in the government is saying, Hey,
I'm from the government and I'm here to help because
it's not going to work out all that great, and
(14:31):
I just have a feeling it's only going to get worse.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Let's take the state of Texas for an example, so
we can do just a little bit deeper dive as
to why somebody has to step in and police this. Okay,
So the two largest schools University of Texas Austin and
Texas A and M. Anybody know, I don't know this,
but what's their estimated nil purse right now?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay? I can tell you that Xa's the last two
years has been roughly twenty to twenty.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Five twenty to twenty five million.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Twenty to twenty five million. That is football A and
M has been close to that. The problem is the
A and M makes really cool decisions, Jimbo, But yeah,
that's the rumor has been that Texas and Ohio State
were the two highest paying programs north of twenty to
twenty five million.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, so twenty five million for Austin. Let's just say
we'll just guess and say twenty million for football for
A and M. Maybe less, I don't know. And then
let's talk about your two biggest private schools. And nothing
against some of these other schools. I'm not going to
talk about when we could talk about tech. They've made
some splash recently. But let's talk about Baylor and TCU.
(15:48):
What is TCUs in a nil budget right now?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Anybody? No? From what? Okay? I'm just telling you the
rumors I've heard, because neither really releases what's going on
with the football pro right, I have heard for both
that they're spending around eight to ten a year, eight
to ten million. I do know that Baylor's basketball, if
(16:14):
you're interested, runs somewhat between six and eight, which is
pretty high. TCUs is for basketball is not that high.
In fact, TCU actually goes more in on women's than
they do on men's basketball, but that's about where they spend.
So there's a massive spin differential there.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
All right.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So with that information in mind, and I'll start with you, Shirley,
you're trying to solve this problem. Let's say again for
this example, we're just going to make it like it's
a Texas thing and not a US thing so we
can kind of get our mind around it. So let's
say you're the governor of Texas and you're trying to
solve it. So you have the big state schools that
(16:57):
will come to you and they'll make an argument, how
we're the big state schools. We want to you know,
control this. It's getting out of hand. So if you
did a deal to for the state school's cap it
at a certain amount where all the state schools buy in,
then you have a Baylor and a TCU that want
(17:18):
to be competitive, that feel like they constantly have to
compete against Texas. How are you going to stop them
from spending money? And I mean I'm thinking this example
surely because of what's going on in Provo, Utah right now,
this little not so little private school that's opening up
the checkbook and all of a sudden, you know, taking
(17:39):
players from Baylor and other big schools because they can.
You know, it's that dynamic between public and private universities
that also makes us complicated.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You would have to determine a cap for football, for basketball,
for baseball, or just in IL in general that would
apply to both, you know, public and private universities. You know,
under the underneath this this state analogy, if you will
(18:11):
to to level you know, kind of level the playing field,
although it wouldn't really be level, right because the state
schools are always going to be able to spend more
than the private schools because they have a much larger
alumni base. Right, So I don't think you're I think
it would be rare that you would ever have a
private school, you know, that was going to be out
(18:32):
spending a public school, you know, in any any given
sport at least the you know, at least the two
major sports.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Let's just let's just say that. But number two to to.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Kind of go outside of your analogy, I think I
think the I think we're the I think the problem
with the analogy and the problem with states trying to
deal with this is the fact that, again, they can't
be completely objective, you know, right, They're they're gonna want
they're gonna want their largest state schools to have as
(19:08):
as as as much financial resources as they can possibly
have to be as competitive as possible in any given sport.
And so I think it's it has to be a
you know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
An objective third party that has real authority.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And you know, again, if that's if that's Congress, if
that is a you know, a completely revamped n C
double A that actually has a thord, has governing authority,
and it has teeth, and it can it will enforce
you know, whatever the governing rules and regulations are as
(19:48):
it relates to n I L You know, I think
I think that's gotta that's got to be the solution.
It's got to go outside of the states, because the
states are just going to stack the deck in favor
of their largest state schools. That's just what they're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
The NFL, by room, for a long time, didn't really
have a salary cap. I don't think we saw you know,
this kind of out of control spending as we're seeing,
you know on the college level. But there's also less
competition in the NFL. There was only certain a number
of teams, and there was an argument to be made
that you know, back in those days, you know those days,
(20:26):
teams like you know, the Cowboys Jerry Jones can just
keep riding out checks, keep righting out checks, keep right
out checks, win championships. So, you know, I'm thinking, and
I'm wondering, just kind of a little thought here, isn't
it going to take the Blue Dogs, the Ohio States,
the University of Texas, Alabama, maybe Oklahoma, you know, some
(20:48):
of these bigger name schools, Michigan coming together almost as
a way of saying, we're going to start our own
conference and put a cap, you know, some sort of
salary cap per team, because I think, you know, the
thing that scares the Baylors of the world is getting
(21:09):
left out of the major conference and the TV deals
and that kind of money. That's what scares them. I
mean BYU was independent forever before they joined the Big twelve.
You know, every time there's realignment, it's Baylor fans. We
get scared at the thought of, you know, not being
able to be in a major conference. So do you
think that is what's going to solve it? Because I
think we all agree, we've already said it. Washington's probably
(21:31):
not going to solve this.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Well, it could. Everybody thought the House Settlement would solve
it because the House Settlement supposedly says you've got to
spend twenty million a year, that's the max for all
your sports. But now there's you know, people thinking, nah,
they're going to be able to figure out how to
how to beat that. You know, it could end up
(21:54):
because I think what the SEC would love to do
with the Big ten is limit themselves to four conferences
and force Notre Dame to join one. Of them, and
then all of the major championships come out of that
four and the SEC and Big Ten wouldn't mind that
too much because they would dominate it and most of
(22:16):
the money would naturally go to them. But I think
as long as there is a demand for sports on
the air, there is a reason why Fox and ESPN
want to have at least three major conferences out there,
right so it it could solve it. But I think
the SEC and Big Ten are definitely going to put
(22:37):
themselves in the situation where they can spend more, where
they can be in a better situation. We saw that
with basketball this year, because all of a sudden, the
SEC turns into a really good basketball conference. And how
did they do that? They spent their way to it.
And so we're just gonna have to see will there
(22:59):
be any any break on this at all? And honestly,
I think there's so many people in the kitchen that
it's going to be really difficult to figure out how
to get a break going.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
On this question to both of you, whoever wants to
answer it first, what's the breaking point for Baylor University
when for so long, you know, they went through years
when their football program probably lost money, but they saw
the long term effect of having games on television, you know,
(23:36):
as a marketing employee, to bring students on campus. But
if you're looking at a spreadsheet and you start to
see this tick tick of what it costs to have
a good football team or a good basketball team are
women's basketball team, and you start to see, you know,
the networks wanting to really pay less and less and
(23:56):
keep renegotiating those deals. What point is there going to
be a board of regents in the future that looks
at this and says, yeah, we're out. We're not going
to be in the Big twelve anymore. We'll go to
a lower conference. We'll still have football games, you know,
we'll still offer scholarships, but we're done with this. Do
(24:17):
you think it would ever get so bad that a
Baylor or a TCU would say that.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I don't think so, because what I constantly hear is
that Baylor looks at the spreadsheet and says that the
money we get back on this and the publicity we
get back on this far exceeds what we're having to pay.
I think they might eventually, though, have to make a decision,
do we really focus on one sport above the other.
(24:46):
And you know, do we truly go basketball over football?
And I think they may have to just be very
very choosy on which sport they want to spend on.
And that's what some schools are doing now. Quite frankly,
BYU is going all in on men's basketball. They want
to be competitive there. They think it's easier to be
(25:07):
competitive there, So that could be the end result. But
that's kind of what I'm here.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, I don't really I don't really know if there's
a point at which, you know, we have to decide
we can no longer you know, compete at this level
as far as NIL is concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
But you know, I kind of want to piggyback off
of something.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That Byron just ended with, and that is, you know,
going in it's easier, at least maybe from BYU's perspective
right now, putting so much financial resources into the men's
basketball program because it's easier to compete with, you know,
(25:53):
given money in the basketball program.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think while that that all that may.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Be true because obviously you're only having to h you know,
fund you know what, twelve players, you know, ten to
twelve players, right, uh, And so that is going to
be easier in a way. But I'll just speak from
you know how how I'm feeling sitting here, you know,
(26:22):
after hearing the news that Ojenrena is going to be
transferring like he was the last player from this last
year squad and looking at a picture of this year's
basketball team with an ex through every single player that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Was on the team this year.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
That is again like that just blows my mind that
that's even happened. But from a from a fan standpoint,
you're right, I do want to be able to follow
some of these kids throughout their college career. And I
I want to follow kids that are there for you know,
(27:02):
in our program for multiple years.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Well maybe that's just not going.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
To happen anymore of basketball, which makes me as a fan,
want to follow football that much more because those are
the kids just because of sheer numbers, right, those are
the kids that you are going to have in your
program for multiple years that you are going to be
able to follow.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And yeah, you're going.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
To sprinkle in, you know, here and there when there's
a need at a skilled position, you know, a transfer
portal player. But you know, we're we're getting our our
third going into our third year of getting to watch
Sawyer Robertson, you know, and and uh and some of
these other guys that have they played last year and
they're playing again this year, and like there, you know,
(27:48):
there's a lot of excitement and momentum building for our
football team this year because of players. Not that we
added to the transfer portal this year or that we
recruited this year, but because of players that were on
our team this last year and how they improved throughout
the season. We all watched that and we all saw it,
(28:08):
and so we're going into the season going, man, I
can't wait. I can't wait to see how good this
team might be. Man, we might compete for a Big
twelve championship this year. As whereas you know, I'm glad
that we're getting players for basketball through the portal, but
I do not feel the same way whatsoever, because I
don't even know who these guys are, because none of
(28:29):
them are my team last year. Right, So, like from
a from a fan standpoint, from a pure fan standpoint, man,
it might be easier to build a basketball roster a
by pouring money into nil for basketball, yeah, it will be.
But from a from like a fan, pure enjoyment excitement standpoint,
(28:52):
like I just I can't get excited about players that
I have no idea who they are and never watched
them before. And you you cross your fingers and you
hope that your coach and your coaching staff are good
enough to get these players to gel over the course
of a very short season, you know. So like this
(29:16):
is ruining for me the fan experience as it relates
to basketball.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And how do you have a culture of joy?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You don't. You can't build a culture not you can't
in just a few months.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's impossible.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And remember joy is Jesus others and then yourself. Where
does I want eight million dollars to play fit in
Jesus others and then yourself. It's an interesting thought and
it makes me wonder if Scott Drew is really gonna
call it quit. It's not you know, retire, because he's
going to be you know, like Nick Saban and reach
a point that says, this is not the same game
(29:50):
I used to coach. I have a final thought, and
then if you guys have one more thing. My final
thought is this culture in college sports and what we've
seen actually started at the university long before it became
a problem on the field, on the athletic field. And
I can prove my point by saying this, Chris Byron,
when did you go to Baylor?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I need you here from in the late eighties.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Late eighties? What was your dorm experience like at Baylor University?
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Did you know any different though?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It was just it was That's what the choices were.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Did you have a fancy little kitchen in your dorm?
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No? No, I had a half of room and it
was I look back on it now, I would never
do that again.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And what was the mill plan like at Baylor? How
many options did you have for food? You?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Okay? Well that helped. I lived close to my parents.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Counting that I'm talking about you, okay, surely What years
did you go to Baylor?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Ninety three to ninety seven?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay? And what was a dorm life like for you?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'd agree experience with my hall when I lived in
the norma freshman year. I just lived in norma freshman year,
and then my roommate for my freshman year and two
other guys that were on our hall moved into an
apartment you know together, So.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
You had great friends but what was the dorm itself?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Was it fancy? Did it have fancy bells and whistles?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean it was a platform with you know, two
beds and it had a sink and you know, community
shower like that was it? You know?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
That was my experience. I didn't go to to Baylor.
I went to Howard Payne, simple dorm, shared shower and
you know you had a phone that you know, you
were lucky. We had phones in each room. Byron, you
probably had a phone in one in the hallway.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I'm I'm just kidding, as that's not far from the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Have you seen what it's like on campus at Baylor
University today in the.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Dorms I went to school in the ancient day, Scott, Yes,
I have, and it's pathetically it's pathetically amazing to see
what they have now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So what is real life? Because when we all graduated
from university and we got our first job, we were
not making much money. We're out on our own. We
probably lived in some place that we wouldn't want to
live in today. It's like I tell my kids when
they you know, I've got one in college, one getting
ready to go to college and I keep you know,
(32:26):
they're like, oh, I want to you know, look what
your mom and I have we didn't have when we
first got married, right, We worked hard, we built it.
We lived in a tiny little duplex that we complained
because it was three seventy five a month in rent.
What I wouldn't kill you know for that today. My
point in saying that is somewhere along the way, I
don't know what university did it first, but we don't
(32:47):
send our kids to university anymore. We send them to resorts. Now,
I'm not saying there's not hard classes and they have
to work hard and they're not earning their education. I'm
just saying these college campuses are like going to a fancy,
four star resort, the mill plans, the dorms, all of
the amenities they have, which I think is not real life.
(33:10):
And it answers a question that people like, why is
education more expensive? Why is it outpacing inflation? Well, take
a look, because you're not sending your kid to university,
You're sending them to a four star resort. So is
it any surprise when for a couple of decades now
these universities continue to pour money and keep up with
(33:32):
the Jones. And then it was like, once we had
the nice dorms, then it had to be the nice stadiums.
And now we have to build stadiums with suites. And listen,
I love McClean Stadium. It's an awesome facility right on
the river. But you know it's not the stadium. When
you guys went to Baylor, right, you know, you went
to the men's restroom, it was the troft. Right now
(33:53):
you got all this fancy stuff. Is he you know,
all the these kids is to what we're teaching them?
And is it any wonder that we reach a point
where now it's like now I want to get paid,
and now I want to get paid more, and now
I want to get paid more, and it just seems
to be insanity. Do you guys agree with that? I mean,
this has been a problem even before it reached the
athletic field.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, all right, that's my soapbox. Surely before we wrap up,
do you have one more thing for us tonight?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
All right?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So I saw this this morning. I don't think I
sent this to y'all. So, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Baylor, of men's basketball greats of recent years. So former
Baylor center Eves Mesee has put together an incredible rookie campaign,
averaging nine point one points, eight point two rebounds in
one point three blocks for his first rookie season. So
(34:51):
congrats to Eves me C will probably end up probably
not first team All Rookie, but probably second team All Rookie, so.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Good for him.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
That's great, all right, Byron, you got anything else?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I'm good man?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
All right, he go Rangers for Chris. Byron, Chris Shirley,
I'm Scott Miller until next time. So long, everybody,
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