September 6, 2025 • 41 mins
Spit, Storms & Surprises: The Wild Start to the Cowboys’ Season
Scott Miller, Chris Byrum, and Chris Shirley unpack the Cowboys’ wild season opener—Jalen Carter’s ejection, Dak Prescott at the center of controversy, a bizarre lightning delay, and CeeDee Lamb’s costly drops. Plus, the crew reacts to Netflix’s America’s Team: The Gambler and His Cowboys and debates if the Rangers’ playoff push is for real.
Scott Miller, Chris Byrum, and Chris Shirley unpack the Cowboys’ wild season opener—Jalen Carter’s ejection, Dak Prescott at the center of controversy, a bizarre lightning delay, and CeeDee Lamb’s costly drops. Plus, the crew reacts to Netflix’s America’s Team: The Gambler and His Cowboys and debates if the Rangers’ playoff push is for real.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome into another edition of My Conversation with the Chrises.
I'm Scott Miller, joined as always Chris Byram and Chris Shirley.
We're gonna talk all things Dallas Cowboys this week as
the NFL season is officially underway, and Chris Biram, I'm
gonna start with you, and I'm kind of laughing because really,
the thing I'm going to start with is one of
(00:23):
the most bizarre openings to the NFL season I think
in recent memory. Within the just you know, just within
the matter of seconds, Philadelphia loses two players we're going
to talk about Jalen Carter, but also lost in the mix,
they lost a fullback to an injury. Can you ever
(00:44):
remember an opening to a game and opening to a
season so bizarre?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Now, that was wild and you would think, okay, it's
before the first play of the game, at the first
play from tege, Okay, you've got an injured guy down
on the field. Why are you crossing the line of
scrimmage to go talk to the quarterback? I mean, the stupidity,
(01:11):
the stupidity of that was mind blowing, and to me,
it was the perfect microcosm of the Cowboys offseason. It
was just nuts and the whole game was weird, and
that that's the only way to put it. It was
just it was just kind of off the wall. And
(01:34):
I'm thinking, it's gonna be a wild circus with the
Cowboys this.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Year, Oh well every year. To your point, that's just
the Dallas Cowboys. Like, as someone who has been a
TV executive, you cannot script a better story than the
Dallas Cowboys provide each and every week in the off
season and during the season. Uh, you know, Chris Shirley,
the beginning of this game, even before where we get
(02:00):
to and I want to I want to dive into
you know, Jalen Carter, but it just felt like it
almost felt like a Super Bowl the way they kind
of built it up. You know, you had, you know,
the the revealing of the banner of the Super Bowl Championship.
Just a lot of pop and circumstances going into this
game and then it kicks off and all of a sudden,
(02:22):
all of this is going on. What was going through
your mind as you're trying to settle in for the
beginning of the NFL season.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, I mean I think you know that it did.
It did seem like you know, especially NBC was.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
You know, promoting the beginning of this game as uh
as they would a Super Bowl with all the lead
up to the beginning of the game and all that
they showed, you know, on the field, and but yeah, yeah,
it seemed a little bit like like a Super Bowl atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So Byron did really kind of answer your question. I
don't know if you've got a chance to see this
part of the telecast because some of us watched the
entire game. Okay, one of us watched the entire game.
The rest of the christ is after the lightning delay,
they were out, but they showed later in the telecast,
so you might have missed this Byron, But there was
(03:22):
a part where Dak Prescott, as he's in the huddle,
moves forward. He says he had to spit, so he
moved toward the Philadelphia line where they're at to spit,
and if you look at the video, you can kind
of see his eyes are pointed down. He's not looking
(03:43):
at the Eagles line. But Jalen Carter interpreted that as
an insult, and he stepped across and headed toward Dak Prescott,
and you can see the exchange here. He says something
and then then Dak steps through his offensive line. He
claimed in the press conference afterwards that he was offended
(04:04):
that Jalen would even think that he would spit at somebody,
and Jalen got in his fit. You know, I mean,
we're talking like it's elementary, right, but Jalen steps forward
and in front of the ref with cameras all around him,
literally spits on Dak Prescott and Dak's comment afterwards, you
know again postgame analysis, he's like, heck, yeah, we just
(04:26):
got fifteen yards, not realizing that they were about to
eject Jalen Carter. And the NFL has made it clear
in the off season that they're cracking down on these things.
But again, it's just such a bizarre incident.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, Scott, as you know, I teach seventh graders and
this sounds like something I deal with every day, which
is really sad because these guys make millions of dollars
and they are just acting like a bunch of seventh graders.
And I can tell you right now, this was all ego, Drin,
and you had you had to impress everybody else, you know,
(05:04):
even if you didn't want to. And In Zach and
Dak saying that he was offended that somebody actually thought
he spit. You know, I really think it goes much
deeper than that. But I you you, you gave us
a very sanitized version of what was said, because I
bet it wasn't that sanitized. I was shocked that they
(05:28):
threw the guy out. I mean, it's it's before the
first play of the game and he gets tossed. And
I would have loved to have been a fly on
the wall in the coach's office in the discussion after that.
I'm and that would not be safe for work at all.
(05:48):
But the NFL apparently is cracking down on this. But
once again, the stupidity of this whole thing is the
Eagles coming over to the Cowboys huddle. It's completely unnecessary.
And you know the Eagles can say, oh, they shouldn't
(06:09):
have thrown him out of the game, Well, then don't
be stupid. And I'm sure that when Zach spit, he
probably said something too that got them in rage. It
it is. I still cannot get over just how crazy
that first game is. A guy gets hurt on the
kickoff and.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Probably probably out for the season by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and that's got a stink that has absolutely got
a stink. Then you've got a guy spitting, and we
haven't even gotten into the other odd stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
No, no, we have it. But but when you think
about the history by room of these two franchises and
some of the bizarre games that's that's happened, I mean,
it's it just I don't know where this ranks in
the all time series between these two franchises, but you
know what comes to mind. You remember the pickle Juice
(07:04):
game when Philadelphia came into Dallas and just absolutely annihilated
a pretty good Cowboys team all on the you know,
by drinking pickle juice in early in the season.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
This rivalry was nothing until Jimmy Johnston Buddy Ryan got
together because Eagles terrible. But then Buddy Ryan in that
year that the Cowboys were terrible, the first year Johnson coach,
Ryan had Randall Cunningham act like he was going to
take a knee at the end of the game and
then threw like a sixty yard touchdown pass that enraged everybody.
(07:41):
My favorite is Buddy Ryan putting a bounty on the
kicker of the Cowboys. And you've got guys taking pot
shots at the kicker after he kicks off. That is
my all time favorite moment of this rivalry. But yeah,
this rivalry has turned into something interesting, and this is
this is by far the most bizarre game I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Out of it, Surely, there's so many other moments to
talk about, So let's talk a little bit of some football,
you know, beyond just the bizarre thing that happened to
the beginning of the game. I wrote down three key moments,
and I want to throw kind of all three at you, surely,
and then you kind of give me your thoughts on it,
and you might have more. But you know, looking at
(08:25):
the game, you had the Cowboys fumble when Dallas was
driving the ball. If they had scored a touchdown, they
would have had the lead. This would have been in
the third quarter before the lightning delay. As soon as
the fumble happens, then you have the lightning delay, which
ends up being an hour and fifteen minutes. So again
(08:46):
it felt like a Super Bowl with such a long delay.
And then down the very stretch of the game, you
have your receiver one Ceedee Lamb having three drops that
were key that particularly that last drop probably could have
won the game for the Cowboys. So walk me through
those three moments and any other moments you think, you know,
(09:08):
from a football standpoint on just how this flow of
the game happened.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Yeah, I mean that lost fumble when you're you know,
you've driven down the field and you're about to go
in for another score by Miles Sanders was was just
a well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Honestly, you know, it ended up being really the difference
in the game.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, be Miles Sanders, former Eagle playing his former team,
and it was just poor fundamentals.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Going into the line.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, even my even my seventeen year old son
was like, he didn't have both hands on the ball
when he.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Got to the line.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
You know, he just you just had one hand on
the ball and it was easily stripped out, you know.
So that's that's uh, that's running back one on one
stuff right there.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So that was that was huge.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
However, I would say this that, you know, I think
it would have been more of a momentum killer for
the Cowboys and boosts for the Eagles had we not
immediately gone into that weather delay. So the weather delay
happened immediately after that, so you know that that that
could have really shifted the momentum big time in the
(10:24):
Eagles favor. I had had that not happened. Yeah, when
I when I discovered that it was gonna be over
an hour rain delay, I was like, yeah, I'll just
watch it tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm I'm out.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I'm not staying up for this. So anyway, So but.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, those those drops by Ceedee Lamb were, uh, we're huge.
You know, you're you're being paid like a a number
one and number one's got catch those balls, you know,
so it's uh, it was really disappointing to see to
(11:07):
see those drops and you know, I mean, Lamb took
accountability for for dropping those.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And I was listening to.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Brian Schottenheimer, I guess it was yesterday morning saying that
you know, see Lamb was was the first one there
at the Star yesterday morning getting some work in on
the jugs machine. So you know, good to that's a
good sign. So yeah, those are definitely three three major
(11:41):
moments of the game.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And you can argue, you know, at least one of
those throws was not exactly you know, right in the
bread basket for Ceede Lamb. But when you're when you're
a receiver, one and you have the contract he has,
you're expected to be able to make those those catches.
And in the offseason, surely the Cowboys required, you know,
(12:05):
acquired another receiver from Pittsburgh. How do you feel like
he contributed to the game, because you know, you didn't
see as far as the stats go, you didn't see
a lot of catches. He did have that one pass
interference that kept the season, you know, kept the drive alive.
So what are your thoughts there? I mean, as you
kind of look at this receiving corps and this offense
(12:26):
and what you saw on Thursday night, are you encouraged
about the Cowboys offense because again, we're in the age
of the NFL where you can't really get a fill
in the preseason anymore. You have to wait to game
number one.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I feel like our offense is going to be
able to move the ball and score some points this year.
You know Pickens, I thought he would be more involved
in the offense this first game, but again, this is
the first game of the season, right, just like you said,
and uh, you know, the the number one number one's
(13:03):
didn't have a chance to really play in the in
the off season, in the preseason, games he was, it
was only targeted four times, which to me, in my mind,
seems low, and especially when you compare to see Lamb
was targeted thirteen times. So that's a that's a pretty
big discrepancy between your wide receiver one and your your
wide receiver two. I would think moving forward, uh, they'll
(13:27):
find ways to to get Pickens more involved. And I
will say this, man, I'm excited just to watch Schottenheimer
call offensive plays this year.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You know, you can already.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Tell he's going to make an effort to get Turpin
more involved.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
And I think Turpin.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Is is is a huge weapon if you can find
creative ways of getting him involved. And so I think
we're going to see a much improved, much more creative
offense from Schottenheimer this year than what we've seen over
the past several years.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Which is going to be my next question, and so
I'll throw it to you on this one byrum. When
we look at coach Shotty, you know, we remember his
dad and what he contributed to the NFL. Never able
to win the Super Bowl, but certainly was a well
liked coach. Did well, how do you feel, you know,
(14:27):
because in the off season, when the Cowboys announced that
Schottenheimer would be the new head coach. We were kind
of scratching our head as no head coaching experience. Has
been a coordinator his entire tenure in the NFL. After
and it's just one week, But how are you feeling
about the Cowboys decision with this new head coach?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Love? The offense offense looked great. The part of the
game that I saw before I fell asleep was, you know,
the defense was not doing so hot, but then apparently
in the second half they got better. You know, I'm
going to give the offense a pass in the second
half because we had a lot of drops. So I'm encouraged.
(15:13):
I think it's something. There's a little bit of a
new energy there that I think looks good. Let's see
how it keeps up throughout the season, because I think
all of us going into this game felt like the
Cowboys don't have a chance, and guess what, they had
a chance in all likelihood, probably should have won the game.
But there is some encouragement there we have not seen
(15:36):
in the Cowboys for a while. But once again, what
do the Cowboys love to do to us? They love
to build us up and then let.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Us down at least for the last thirty years that's
been the case. We do have to make this note,
and I agree with what you guys are saying. I mean,
the offense looked great second half. Think I think you've
got to factor in the long delay on both sides
of the offensive. You know, Philadelphia's offense as well as
(16:04):
a Cowboys offense. I think the defense was able to
you know, regroup, restrategize. You had an opportunity you don't
normally have in a regular season NFL game, which is
a longer time for the coaches to look at the
at the tape and make some adjustments. And I think
that's what we saw in the second half. Defense. You know,
when you score, you know, the score going in at
(16:25):
halftime was twenty one to twenty. Only a field goal
was scored in the entire second half, So that tells
you much more of a defensive But we have to
make the note without Jalen Carter in the game, not
to go back to that, but I think this game
would have been a lot different. So I'm excited about
the offense, but what would it would we still be
(16:48):
excited about the offense if you had Jalen or Carter,
you know, wrecking things up the middle, causing more pressure
on Prescott. So we'll see as a season goes along.
But surely want to give you an opportunity to answer
that same question, which is, now that you've seen you know,
one game of work under this new head coach, are
(17:09):
you more confident that he is the right hire for
the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Well, I mean I'm gonna get a generic answer. A
time will tell, but you know, I think I certainly
really like him. I mean, how can you not like
him just as a person. He's you know, he's very
very positive and upbeat, you know, not not like in
(17:36):
a Dak Prescott, you.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Know, raw rock kind of way, but you know, just
very very genuine.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
You can tell he's very very knowledgeable of the game,
like he obviously he's been in this industry for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
This is just his first opportunity, you know, to be
head coach.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I thought he managed the game well, you know as
well for being a first time head coach for game.
You know, I I love the culture talk.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I think you can I think you can.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
See already a little bit of difference between you know,
how how the team, uh, you know, at least started
this first game under Schottenheimer.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
As opposed to you know, previous coaches.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I thought they were sharp, they were ready, you know.
And so I'm I'm excited for him. I'm excited to see,
you know what what he can do. I you know,
I still I still think that this is probably not
a playoff team. I think we're I think defense is
(18:45):
probably going to be a struggle all season long. Remains
to be seen. You know how our patchwork rushing offense,
with those running backs in the in the backfield, is
going to be able to hold up up and perform,
you know, throughout an entire season. So you know, that's
not on Schottenheimer. You know, that's that's really on the
(19:08):
Joneses for you know, player personnel. So I'm excited for Shotenheimer.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
One thing I love about when the season kicks off
is it becomes more x's and o's. It's in the
hands of the coaching staff, in the hands of the players,
less in the hands of the front office like the
offseason is, though we know the front office has a
major influence in that. One more final just kind of
fun note Byram and then we'll we're gonna move on
(19:36):
but during the weather delay, you had a story there.
You know, television cameras caught because they're trying to fill time.
And by the way, Chris, you and I we used
to do high school play by play and we've had
a few of our own long lightning delays where you
have to fill an hour you know of airtime. Those
(19:57):
aren't fun, So I kind of for NBC. They just
had a lot larger crew than you and I had
back when we try to do it. But you had
this little moment where Trayvon Diggs, he's in the locker room,
he gets hungry. There's not any food there, so he
wonders out of the locker room and goes down to
where there's an actual restaurant where Eagles fans are eating
(20:22):
and he's like, hey, I'm I'm hungry, and the guy
running the restaurant goes, you know what, We're going to
bring you some cold cuts, and they bring cold cuts
down to the Dallas locker room. Now it's part of
the broadcast with Chris collins Worth. They commented, like, wait
a minute, like Eagles fans feeding the Cowboys players, Like
(20:43):
do you trust the food kind of thing. So I've
never seen anything like this. It was so again another
one of these bizarre little stories is part of the game.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, and Scott, I'm with you. I don't think I've
ever seen anything like that. The amazing thing is is
most teams and this has evolved over time, and we're
not going to get into it. We'll give their players
something at halftime to eat, and some of the menu
items have been amazing. I got to thinking how other
(21:13):
coaches would react to that. Schottenheimer was probably like, no
big deal. Nick Saban would have, you know, spun on
his head. He would have been so so frustrated over this.
But it's an hour and fifteen minute delay. You're working
hard out there. I'm not surprised he was hungry, but
I'm amazed that he actually left the locker room and
(21:35):
started searching throughout the stadium for food. That's a little
bit wild, especially at Philadelphia, because, let's face if those
bands are not exactly known for their niceties. I don't
know if you have seen this, but apparently last night
in Philadelphia, a elderly lady got upset at a six
(21:58):
year old kid because he got a foul ball she wanted,
and there's video of her just berating this kid. It's
you know, that's the thing that amazes me. But once again,
like we said, we saw a little bit of everything
in this game. I'm surprised Jerry didn't suit up to play.
(22:19):
I mean, that would have been the perfect ending to it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, I just some people were crediting Digs's leadership that
he went on a search for food for the locker room,
so it didn't help him win the game. But all right,
so we're moving on to the documentary, and surely I'm
going to kick it over to you for this one
if you haven't seen it yet. Netflix well publicized, but
(22:42):
they dropped a documentary America's Team, The Gambler and His Cowboys.
What was your thought just overall as you looked at it?
Because it was really kind of recap in the glory days.
It really focused on the Super Bowl years of the
Dallas Cowboys. Did you walk away with any new knowledge
or a different impression of Jerry Jones after watching that?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
So, first of all, I mean it's when it comes
to sports documentaries. You know, Michael Jordan's The Last Dance
is the like that's the epitome, right, And and I
don't know that there will ever be a sports documentary,
you know, multi multi episode sports documentary, like like The
(23:27):
Last Dance.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
But man I I think if if there's a if
there's a second.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Right now, it is, Uh, it's this documentary. You know
that Netflix has has just produced America's team, The Gambler
and a Cowboys. Man I, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh,
certainly there were some episodes I thought that we were
better than better than others.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And it does.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
I mean, it certainly highlights the uh, you know, the
glory days, and I think, you know, we kind of
get a hint of that just in the subtitle The
Gambler and Its Cowboys, because it is about you know,
Jerry Jones and buying the team and how that all happened,
and then bringing you know, Jimmy Johnson in as his
you know, first head coach and firing the legend Tom
(24:18):
Landry and and then you know the president, Tech Shram and.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
You know, uh, and then highlighting.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Certain players obviously Michael Irvin and Troy Aigman and EMMITTT.
Smith and you know Dion Sanders, you know, as they're
kind of moving moving through the documentary. But man I
just thought it was so well done. There were there
were so many you know, little little nuggets you know
(24:47):
here and there that that either I didn't remember or
that I had never heard. Uh So, you know that
was that was really fascinating just to you know, just
kind of hear some of the those But you know,
the first episode, in my mind was just so so
(25:09):
well done. And some of the things that were in
that first episode that you know that I didn't remember.
So you know, all this went down in eighty eight
and eighty nine, you know, and I was fourteen fifteen
at the time. We were living here in Dallas for Worth,
So I remember some of these things, but not you know,
(25:32):
not at at the level that that they you know,
really talk about in the documentary in this first episode.
But you know, I did, you know, just the from
the meeting that you know, Jerry Jones has with Jimmy
Johnson at the at the Little Mexican Food restaurant and
(25:56):
you know, the media somehow finds out out, you know,
about this this meeting, and it's all it's all over town,
right and oh it just so happens. By the way,
that was one of Tom Landry's favorite restaurants to go to.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And that just kind of adds a little salt, you know,
to the to the wound from just that.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I didn't I remember the reaction to the firing of
of Tom Landry. I mean you you couldn't. You couldn't
be a Cowboys fan. You certainly couldn't be here at
DFW and not remember just the you know, the fan
backlash to that. But but they even showed this brief
clip of of you know, Jerry sitting in the middle
(26:40):
of Old Texas Stadium with with Sam Donaldson.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
On you know, ABC News and uh uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Donaldson just grilling you know, genes, you know, over the
firing of Tom Landry, like it like it was like
this was this was a national national thing.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It was national headline, right.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Did not remember, you know, the parade for Tom Landry
in downtown Dallas. One hundred thousand people show up for
this coach, legendary coach, but a coach who had just.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Been fired and let go like you you don't hear
of that, right? And I did not remember that?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And so that was fascinating just to kind of relive that,
you know, have the whole connection between Jerry and Jimmy
from for all the way back in college and and.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And all that.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
So you know, man, I could I could probably go
episode by episode and highat certain things. But those are
some of the Some of the things that that at
least in that first episode that I didn't exactly remember
or didn't know about, I just found really fascinating, but
just a just a fantastic documentary.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Fire And one of the things that it pointed out
that I had forgotten anew and forgotten is that Jerry
Jones almost became the owner of the San Diego team,
San Diego Chargers, And that what I didn't know that
the that the documentary pointed out is how Jerry Jones
(28:14):
was so fascinated with owning an NFL you know, professional team.
That is like his final paper in college talked about
basically how marketing can change the game. You know. So
this is this is not something that Jerry just happened
into because the the oil rig, you know, actually produced oil.
(28:35):
This is something he dreamed about even even as a boy.
And you know, as I see that part, I think,
how different would our lives be as cowboy fans if
he went through and San Diego would be dealing with
the drama, not the Cowboys. And then of course Jerry Jones,
had he not struck oil on that one rig, you know,
he bet hard on it, took that money to Dallas
(28:58):
and bought the Cowboys. I mean, just the story of
Jerry Jones and his thought process and how he got
to owning the Cowboys is just so fascinating it is.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And he wanted a team that would also making famous
and it paid off because it boy has it ever
And he's in the Hall of Fame, not necessarily because
he's a great general manager. He's in the Hall of
Fame because he literally did change the financial trajectory of
(29:31):
the NFL. He is important, and it's just what you said, Scott,
it's because he transformed the marketing of the NFL in
a mighty way.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But here's what I find if I can't here's what
I find so ironic about it, and I think this
documentary pointed it out. He went against all the other
owners when he started to introduce you know, like, okay,
now the official soft k of Texas Stadium is the
different soft drink of the NFL. And now where the
(30:06):
Nike will be our official uniform. Even though Rebok had
a deal with the NFL, the owners got upset that
there's a big, famous lawsuit. They end up settling it.
You can look at that moment and say the NFL
is valued way more because of Jerry Jones. But remember
their retaliation was a salary cap, and Jerry Jones has
it figured out how to win under the salary cap.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, and Scott, that's the fascinating part to me, because
Jerry Jones had said when the Cowboys were winning the
Super Bowls, I want to be the owner who's also
physically responsible, and he can't figure out how to do it,
and that's part of the problem. What also amazes me
(30:48):
is a lot of people forget in eighty nine he
went a couple of weeks really wondering how he was
going to make payroll. He had leveraged everything to buy
that team and was kind of in deep trouble until
he figured out a way to get out of it.
And that's why the Gambler is such an appropriate title
(31:10):
for him. But yeah, he's also a maverick. He will
do things the way he wants to. I heard him
say one time that he ranks very high on being
able to deal with ambiguity in really not knowing how
things are going to turn out, and that's obvious. Unfortunately,
(31:32):
all of his gambles have of late have kind of
gone south on it, and he has he really is
becoming if I can compare this a Tom Blandry like figure,
because Tom Landry hung on with the Cowboys because he
wanted to win one more super Bowl. That was his goal,
(31:53):
and he had told people around everywhere that if I
win one more, I'm going to quit. I'm done, and
it was a disaster form. I think Jerry wants to
desperately win one more super Bowl and be able to
say I did it my way without without Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh absolutely, But I.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Think he's going to end up like Landrig on that
and just coming short and not being able to.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But the day he is gone, I don't think they're
going to be throwing a parade with one hundred thousand
people in Dallas with all due respect.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
No, because I don't know. They might, I see, I
don't because he's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, Shirley just neled on the head if he's gone. Yeah,
because I think people are so frustrated with him right now,
and you know, I talk about the real Cowboys to me,
the Cowboys were in the seventies where for I think
it was eighteen or nineteen years there was one break
(32:57):
in seventy four where they were in the playoffs every year.
You could. They played in twelve under landry they played
in twelve NFC championship games. That's mind blowing. That competes
with what the Patriots did. You know, it's and now
(33:17):
you look at the Cowboys. This was the way it
was at my school this week. Our principal said, Hey,
if you guys, if the Cowboys win, we could wear
jeans on Monday. That day we're walking around going there's
no prayer, We're not going to wear jeans on Monday.
And that's what it's become. And before you went into
(33:37):
a Cowboys game, we're going to win, and now it's like, oh,
I play.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Well, surely. One of the other things that I thought
was interesting, you mentioned, you know, the beginning of the
documentary and kind of how things started happening the end
of the Jimmy Johnson Jerry Jones story. And we knew
there was tension, it was well public size going into
the last Super Bowl that Johnson coached in before he
(34:05):
stepped away. What I didn't know and somehow just missed it,
you know, kind of like you like life's happening. Was
the whole incident in Orlando, Florida when all the players
and coaches are getting together. That happened over a drink.
Jimmy just wanted Jerry just wanted to be recognized and
as one of the boys. And that's where out of
(34:26):
that came that famous quote with this team, I can
win with five hundred coaches. It's it's interesting how ego
really just destroyed what was a great beginning. I mean,
they could have had a run like the Patriots did
had they put ego aside.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
Oh absolutely yeah. And I didn't remember that incident either.
You know, Jerry, It's at winter meetings and Jimmy Johnson
is sitting there with his coaching staff and Dave Once
that was there because they obviously they interviewed him in
the documentary and Jerry, Jerry walks up and you know,
(35:08):
they're all having a drink whatever and and he uh,
he raises, he raises, Jerry Jones raises a glass and
Jimmy Johnson is the only one not to raise a glass.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Right and uh, And that was that was it.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
That was that was the that was the final straw,
that that broke the camel's back. And and uh, you know,
hearing a couple of longtime cowboys beat writers and Edward
was one of them that they interviewed. I think Goslin
was the other one. And uh, you know, Jerry Jerry
(35:44):
and in essence lets them know, you know, tomorrow, I'm
I'm firing his behind, but he didn't use the word behind.
So you know, man, they would have the Cowboys absolutely
would have. You can already you can argue that, you
know that they did have a dynasty there in the nineties,
but man, it would have it would have lasted so
(36:08):
much longer it would it would have it would have
been protracted throughout the the entire you know nineties, had
had they just figured out a way to you know,
to to get along and you know, not not have
to have you know, all of all of the recognition.
I thought it was really funny that, you know, Jerry
(36:30):
admitted that when when he got home after he fired
you know, Jimmy, that that his wife. You know, it
was like you just can't help yourself, right, you know,
you have, you have it all, everything's going well, you
just can't help yourself, but just just mess it up.
I thought it was really interesting that that he would
(36:51):
he'd admit that, right, but you know he he uh
through many times throughout the documentary, you know, submitted the
fact that he kind of he kind of likes ambiguity,
He kind of likes living in the midst of chaos
and certainly enjoys the soap opera in the circus that
(37:13):
oftentimes is the Dallas Cowboys, as we have just seen
with this whole Michael Parsons thing.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
All right, So just one more known in the documentary,
and then two more things real quickly as far as
you know the press around the documentary. One was it's
interesting to note what his father did. His father worked
in the in the grocery business, was a marketer in
his own right, and made a comment to his son
(37:43):
that when he said, you know, son, you better make
sure that rather it's smoking mirrors. You better make sure
this is successful or look successful, or you will never
overcome that. And I thought, well, there it is a
lot of smoking mirrors. That advice came from his dad,
Thank you, dad. And here's the two things I found funny.
So Jimmy Johnson was at the Arkansas Football Club. He
(38:08):
was being honored for his contribution to the game of
football to the University of Arkansas. And it's kind of
this interview style. And it was after the documentary came
out and someone asked him, you know, natural, what do
you think about the documentary. He goes, well, I'll put
it this way. He said, when Jerry Jones came to
tell me, we were in Carolina, North Carolina, when he
(38:28):
came to tell me that I was going to be
in you know, basically added to the ring of honor.
Finally he made and all the Netflix documentary was there.
All the cameras were rolling in that moment, which by
the way, did not end up in the documentary. This
particular moment, he said, Jerry told this very off colored joke,
and I looked at him. I said, Jerry, the cameras
(38:50):
are rolling here. He goes, don't worry. They're giving me
final say on the product. He said, So let's just
say that's the Jerry Jones documentary. So I thought that
was interesting to note from Jimmy Johnson. And then the
other thing. Dion Sanders on the NFL Network was being
interviewed and asked about this and what's going on? And uh?
(39:13):
And the question that was asked to him, he goes,
you know, you have different names on your phone. You
don't actually put, you know, like Jerry Jones in your
in your phone. He said, so when you played for
the Cowboys, he said, what what was what was Jerry
Jones under? And Dion being Dion says, direct deposit direct
(39:36):
deposits calling me anyway, all right, one more thing. We
talked about it last week. I just got to throw
it out again, Shirley, I again. I stayed up late
to watch this one last night in twelve innings, the
Texas Rangers beating the Houston Astros on a walk off,
walk off hit by someone that was just brought up
(39:58):
from Triple A recently. Now the Rangers are just half
a game away from a wild card spot, four games
away from the top of the of the Al West.
Are they roping you back in yet?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I'm not falling for it.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I have not.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I have not watched a Ranger game in about three weeks.
And that's that's saying something.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
So no, they're gonna have to like sweep this series
or something to probably pull me back in.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
When I was watching the game last night Byram, I
guess the exciting and frustrating part is the Rangers' bats
have woken up. The pitching was okay, but I think, man,
how great would this team be if we didn't lose
some key pitching down the stretch? Is now the bats
are siding? No, well, this is how you hit the ball?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah it, But my fear is is how long does
the does the bats? And we still have severe pitching problems.
So I'm with Shirley. I've got to see them win
some more because they don't. You know, we're in big trouble.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I gotta be honest. Watching the game on the CW
last night, I was excited to see the Rangers pull
off the win. A big, big slate of college games today,
we won't get into that, but we will certainly talk
about it next week. For Chris Shirley and Chris Byram,
I'm Scott Miller until next time. So long, everybody,
Welcome into another edition of My Conversation with the Chrises.
I'm Scott Miller, joined as always Chris Byram and Chris Shirley.
We're gonna talk all things Dallas Cowboys this week as
the NFL season is officially underway, and Chris Biram, I'm
gonna start with you, and I'm kind of laughing because really,
the thing I'm going to start with is one of
(00:23):
the most bizarre openings to the NFL season I think
in recent memory. Within the just you know, just within
the matter of seconds, Philadelphia loses two players we're going
to talk about Jalen Carter, but also lost in the mix,
they lost a fullback to an injury. Can you ever
(00:44):
remember an opening to a game and opening to a
season so bizarre?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Now, that was wild and you would think, okay, it's
before the first play of the game, at the first
play from tege, Okay, you've got an injured guy down
on the field. Why are you crossing the line of
scrimmage to go talk to the quarterback? I mean, the stupidity,
(01:11):
the stupidity of that was mind blowing, and to me,
it was the perfect microcosm of the Cowboys offseason. It
was just nuts and the whole game was weird, and
that that's the only way to put it. It was
just it was just kind of off the wall. And
(01:34):
I'm thinking, it's gonna be a wild circus with the
Cowboys this.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Year, Oh well every year. To your point, that's just
the Dallas Cowboys. Like, as someone who has been a
TV executive, you cannot script a better story than the
Dallas Cowboys provide each and every week in the off
season and during the season. Uh, you know, Chris Shirley,
the beginning of this game, even before where we get
(02:00):
to and I want to I want to dive into
you know, Jalen Carter, but it just felt like it
almost felt like a Super Bowl the way they kind
of built it up. You know, you had, you know,
the the revealing of the banner of the Super Bowl Championship.
Just a lot of pop and circumstances going into this
game and then it kicks off and all of a sudden,
(02:22):
all of this is going on. What was going through
your mind as you're trying to settle in for the
beginning of the NFL season.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, I mean I think you know that it did.
It did seem like you know, especially NBC was.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
You know, promoting the beginning of this game as uh
as they would a Super Bowl with all the lead
up to the beginning of the game and all that
they showed, you know, on the field, and but yeah, yeah,
it seemed a little bit like like a Super Bowl atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So Byron did really kind of answer your question. I
don't know if you've got a chance to see this
part of the telecast because some of us watched the
entire game. Okay, one of us watched the entire game.
The rest of the christ is after the lightning delay,
they were out, but they showed later in the telecast,
so you might have missed this Byron, But there was
(03:22):
a part where Dak Prescott, as he's in the huddle,
moves forward. He says he had to spit, so he
moved toward the Philadelphia line where they're at to spit,
and if you look at the video, you can kind
of see his eyes are pointed down. He's not looking
(03:43):
at the Eagles line. But Jalen Carter interpreted that as
an insult, and he stepped across and headed toward Dak Prescott,
and you can see the exchange here. He says something
and then then Dak steps through his offensive line. He
claimed in the press conference afterwards that he was offended
(04:04):
that Jalen would even think that he would spit at somebody,
and Jalen got in his fit. You know, I mean,
we're talking like it's elementary, right, but Jalen steps forward
and in front of the ref with cameras all around him,
literally spits on Dak Prescott and Dak's comment afterwards, you
know again postgame analysis, he's like, heck, yeah, we just
(04:26):
got fifteen yards, not realizing that they were about to
eject Jalen Carter. And the NFL has made it clear
in the off season that they're cracking down on these things.
But again, it's just such a bizarre incident.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, Scott, as you know, I teach seventh graders and
this sounds like something I deal with every day, which
is really sad because these guys make millions of dollars
and they are just acting like a bunch of seventh graders.
And I can tell you right now, this was all ego, Drin,
and you had you had to impress everybody else, you know,
(05:04):
even if you didn't want to. And In Zach and
Dak saying that he was offended that somebody actually thought
he spit. You know, I really think it goes much
deeper than that. But I you you, you gave us
a very sanitized version of what was said, because I
bet it wasn't that sanitized. I was shocked that they
(05:28):
threw the guy out. I mean, it's it's before the
first play of the game and he gets tossed. And
I would have loved to have been a fly on
the wall in the coach's office in the discussion after that.
I'm and that would not be safe for work at all.
(05:48):
But the NFL apparently is cracking down on this. But
once again, the stupidity of this whole thing is the
Eagles coming over to the Cowboys huddle. It's completely unnecessary.
And you know the Eagles can say, oh, they shouldn't
(06:09):
have thrown him out of the game, Well, then don't
be stupid. And I'm sure that when Zach spit, he
probably said something too that got them in rage. It
it is. I still cannot get over just how crazy
that first game is. A guy gets hurt on the
kickoff and.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Probably probably out for the season by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and that's got a stink that has absolutely got
a stink. Then you've got a guy spitting, and we
haven't even gotten into the other odd stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
No, no, we have it. But but when you think
about the history by room of these two franchises and
some of the bizarre games that's that's happened, I mean,
it's it just I don't know where this ranks in
the all time series between these two franchises, but you
know what comes to mind. You remember the pickle Juice
(07:04):
game when Philadelphia came into Dallas and just absolutely annihilated
a pretty good Cowboys team all on the you know,
by drinking pickle juice in early in the season.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
This rivalry was nothing until Jimmy Johnston Buddy Ryan got
together because Eagles terrible. But then Buddy Ryan in that
year that the Cowboys were terrible, the first year Johnson coach,
Ryan had Randall Cunningham act like he was going to
take a knee at the end of the game and
then threw like a sixty yard touchdown pass that enraged everybody.
(07:41):
My favorite is Buddy Ryan putting a bounty on the
kicker of the Cowboys. And you've got guys taking pot
shots at the kicker after he kicks off. That is
my all time favorite moment of this rivalry. But yeah,
this rivalry has turned into something interesting, and this is
this is by far the most bizarre game I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Out of it, Surely, there's so many other moments to
talk about, So let's talk a little bit of some football,
you know, beyond just the bizarre thing that happened to
the beginning of the game. I wrote down three key moments,
and I want to throw kind of all three at you, surely,
and then you kind of give me your thoughts on it,
and you might have more. But you know, looking at
(08:25):
the game, you had the Cowboys fumble when Dallas was
driving the ball. If they had scored a touchdown, they
would have had the lead. This would have been in
the third quarter before the lightning delay. As soon as
the fumble happens, then you have the lightning delay, which
ends up being an hour and fifteen minutes. So again
(08:46):
it felt like a Super Bowl with such a long delay.
And then down the very stretch of the game, you
have your receiver one Ceedee Lamb having three drops that
were key that particularly that last drop probably could have
won the game for the Cowboys. So walk me through
those three moments and any other moments you think, you know,
(09:08):
from a football standpoint on just how this flow of
the game happened.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Yeah, I mean that lost fumble when you're you know,
you've driven down the field and you're about to go
in for another score by Miles Sanders was was just
a well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Honestly, you know, it ended up being really the difference
in the game.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, be Miles Sanders, former Eagle playing his former team,
and it was just poor fundamentals.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Going into the line.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, even my even my seventeen year old son
was like, he didn't have both hands on the ball
when he.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Got to the line.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
You know, he just you just had one hand on
the ball and it was easily stripped out, you know.
So that's that's uh, that's running back one on one
stuff right there.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So that was that was huge.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
However, I would say this that, you know, I think
it would have been more of a momentum killer for
the Cowboys and boosts for the Eagles had we not
immediately gone into that weather delay. So the weather delay
happened immediately after that, so you know that that that
could have really shifted the momentum big time in the
(10:24):
Eagles favor. I had had that not happened. Yeah, when
I when I discovered that it was gonna be over
an hour rain delay, I was like, yeah, I'll just
watch it tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm I'm out.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I'm not staying up for this. So anyway, So but.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, those those drops by Ceedee Lamb were, uh, we're huge.
You know, you're you're being paid like a a number
one and number one's got catch those balls, you know,
so it's uh, it was really disappointing to see to
(11:07):
see those drops and you know, I mean, Lamb took
accountability for for dropping those.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And I was listening to.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Brian Schottenheimer, I guess it was yesterday morning saying that
you know, see Lamb was was the first one there
at the Star yesterday morning getting some work in on
the jugs machine. So you know, good to that's a
good sign. So yeah, those are definitely three three major
(11:41):
moments of the game.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And you can argue, you know, at least one of
those throws was not exactly you know, right in the
bread basket for Ceede Lamb. But when you're when you're
a receiver, one and you have the contract he has,
you're expected to be able to make those those catches.
And in the offseason, surely the Cowboys required, you know,
(12:05):
acquired another receiver from Pittsburgh. How do you feel like
he contributed to the game, because you know, you didn't
see as far as the stats go, you didn't see
a lot of catches. He did have that one pass
interference that kept the season, you know, kept the drive alive.
So what are your thoughts there? I mean, as you
kind of look at this receiving corps and this offense
(12:26):
and what you saw on Thursday night, are you encouraged
about the Cowboys offense because again, we're in the age
of the NFL where you can't really get a fill
in the preseason anymore. You have to wait to game
number one.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I feel like our offense is going to be
able to move the ball and score some points this year.
You know Pickens, I thought he would be more involved
in the offense this first game, but again, this is
the first game of the season, right, just like you said,
and uh, you know, the the number one number one's
(13:03):
didn't have a chance to really play in the in
the off season, in the preseason, games he was, it
was only targeted four times, which to me, in my mind,
seems low, and especially when you compare to see Lamb
was targeted thirteen times. So that's a that's a pretty
big discrepancy between your wide receiver one and your your
wide receiver two. I would think moving forward, uh, they'll
(13:27):
find ways to to get Pickens more involved. And I
will say this, man, I'm excited just to watch Schottenheimer
call offensive plays this year.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You know, you can already.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Tell he's going to make an effort to get Turpin
more involved.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
And I think Turpin.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Is is is a huge weapon if you can find
creative ways of getting him involved. And so I think
we're going to see a much improved, much more creative
offense from Schottenheimer this year than what we've seen over
the past several years.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Which is going to be my next question, and so
I'll throw it to you on this one byrum. When
we look at coach Shotty, you know, we remember his
dad and what he contributed to the NFL. Never able
to win the Super Bowl, but certainly was a well
liked coach. Did well, how do you feel, you know,
(14:27):
because in the off season, when the Cowboys announced that
Schottenheimer would be the new head coach. We were kind
of scratching our head as no head coaching experience. Has
been a coordinator his entire tenure in the NFL. After
and it's just one week, But how are you feeling
about the Cowboys decision with this new head coach?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Love? The offense offense looked great. The part of the
game that I saw before I fell asleep was, you know,
the defense was not doing so hot, but then apparently
in the second half they got better. You know, I'm
going to give the offense a pass in the second
half because we had a lot of drops. So I'm encouraged.
(15:13):
I think it's something. There's a little bit of a
new energy there that I think looks good. Let's see
how it keeps up throughout the season, because I think
all of us going into this game felt like the
Cowboys don't have a chance, and guess what, they had
a chance in all likelihood, probably should have won the game.
But there is some encouragement there we have not seen
(15:36):
in the Cowboys for a while. But once again, what
do the Cowboys love to do to us? They love
to build us up and then let.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Us down at least for the last thirty years that's
been the case. We do have to make this note,
and I agree with what you guys are saying. I mean,
the offense looked great second half. Think I think you've
got to factor in the long delay on both sides
of the offensive. You know, Philadelphia's offense as well as
(16:04):
a Cowboys offense. I think the defense was able to
you know, regroup, restrategize. You had an opportunity you don't
normally have in a regular season NFL game, which is
a longer time for the coaches to look at the
at the tape and make some adjustments. And I think
that's what we saw in the second half. Defense. You know,
when you score, you know, the score going in at
(16:25):
halftime was twenty one to twenty. Only a field goal
was scored in the entire second half, So that tells
you much more of a defensive But we have to
make the note without Jalen Carter in the game, not
to go back to that, but I think this game
would have been a lot different. So I'm excited about
the offense, but what would it would we still be
(16:48):
excited about the offense if you had Jalen or Carter,
you know, wrecking things up the middle, causing more pressure
on Prescott. So we'll see as a season goes along.
But surely want to give you an opportunity to answer
that same question, which is, now that you've seen you know,
one game of work under this new head coach, are
(17:09):
you more confident that he is the right hire for
the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Well, I mean I'm gonna get a generic answer. A
time will tell, but you know, I think I certainly
really like him. I mean, how can you not like
him just as a person. He's you know, he's very
very positive and upbeat, you know, not not like in
(17:36):
a Dak Prescott, you.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Know, raw rock kind of way, but you know, just
very very genuine.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
You can tell he's very very knowledgeable of the game,
like he obviously he's been in this industry for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
This is just his first opportunity, you know, to be
head coach.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I thought he managed the game well, you know as
well for being a first time head coach for game.
You know, I I love the culture talk.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I think you can I think you can.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
See already a little bit of difference between you know,
how how the team, uh, you know, at least started
this first game under Schottenheimer.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
As opposed to you know, previous coaches.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I thought they were sharp, they were ready, you know.
And so I'm I'm excited for him. I'm excited to see,
you know what what he can do. I you know,
I still I still think that this is probably not
a playoff team. I think we're I think defense is
(18:45):
probably going to be a struggle all season long. Remains
to be seen. You know how our patchwork rushing offense,
with those running backs in the in the backfield, is
going to be able to hold up up and perform,
you know, throughout an entire season. So you know, that's
not on Schottenheimer. You know, that's that's really on the
(19:08):
Joneses for you know, player personnel. So I'm excited for Shotenheimer.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
One thing I love about when the season kicks off
is it becomes more x's and o's. It's in the
hands of the coaching staff, in the hands of the players,
less in the hands of the front office like the
offseason is, though we know the front office has a
major influence in that. One more final just kind of
fun note Byram and then we'll we're gonna move on
(19:36):
but during the weather delay, you had a story there.
You know, television cameras caught because they're trying to fill time.
And by the way, Chris, you and I we used
to do high school play by play and we've had
a few of our own long lightning delays where you
have to fill an hour you know of airtime. Those
(19:57):
aren't fun, So I kind of for NBC. They just
had a lot larger crew than you and I had
back when we try to do it. But you had
this little moment where Trayvon Diggs, he's in the locker room,
he gets hungry. There's not any food there, so he
wonders out of the locker room and goes down to
where there's an actual restaurant where Eagles fans are eating
(20:22):
and he's like, hey, I'm I'm hungry, and the guy
running the restaurant goes, you know what, We're going to
bring you some cold cuts, and they bring cold cuts
down to the Dallas locker room. Now it's part of
the broadcast with Chris collins Worth. They commented, like, wait
a minute, like Eagles fans feeding the Cowboys players, Like
(20:43):
do you trust the food kind of thing. So I've
never seen anything like this. It was so again another
one of these bizarre little stories is part of the game.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, and Scott, I'm with you. I don't think I've
ever seen anything like that. The amazing thing is is
most teams and this has evolved over time, and we're
not going to get into it. We'll give their players
something at halftime to eat, and some of the menu
items have been amazing. I got to thinking how other
(21:13):
coaches would react to that. Schottenheimer was probably like, no
big deal. Nick Saban would have, you know, spun on
his head. He would have been so so frustrated over this.
But it's an hour and fifteen minute delay. You're working
hard out there. I'm not surprised he was hungry, but
I'm amazed that he actually left the locker room and
(21:35):
started searching throughout the stadium for food. That's a little
bit wild, especially at Philadelphia, because, let's face if those
bands are not exactly known for their niceties. I don't
know if you have seen this, but apparently last night
in Philadelphia, a elderly lady got upset at a six
(21:58):
year old kid because he got a foul ball she wanted,
and there's video of her just berating this kid. It's
you know, that's the thing that amazes me. But once again,
like we said, we saw a little bit of everything
in this game. I'm surprised Jerry didn't suit up to play.
(22:19):
I mean, that would have been the perfect ending to it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, I just some people were crediting Digs's leadership that
he went on a search for food for the locker room,
so it didn't help him win the game. But all right,
so we're moving on to the documentary, and surely I'm
going to kick it over to you for this one
if you haven't seen it yet. Netflix well publicized, but
(22:42):
they dropped a documentary America's Team, The Gambler and His Cowboys.
What was your thought just overall as you looked at it?
Because it was really kind of recap in the glory days.
It really focused on the Super Bowl years of the
Dallas Cowboys. Did you walk away with any new knowledge
or a different impression of Jerry Jones after watching that?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
So, first of all, I mean it's when it comes
to sports documentaries. You know, Michael Jordan's The Last Dance
is the like that's the epitome, right, And and I
don't know that there will ever be a sports documentary,
you know, multi multi episode sports documentary, like like The
(23:27):
Last Dance.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
But man I I think if if there's a if
there's a second.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Right now, it is, Uh, it's this documentary. You know
that Netflix has has just produced America's team, The Gambler
and a Cowboys. Man I, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh,
certainly there were some episodes I thought that we were
better than better than others.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And it does.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
I mean, it certainly highlights the uh, you know, the
glory days, and I think, you know, we kind of
get a hint of that just in the subtitle The
Gambler and Its Cowboys, because it is about you know,
Jerry Jones and buying the team and how that all happened,
and then bringing you know, Jimmy Johnson in as his
you know, first head coach and firing the legend Tom
(24:18):
Landry and and then you know the president, Tech Shram and.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
You know, uh, and then highlighting.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Certain players obviously Michael Irvin and Troy Aigman and EMMITTT.
Smith and you know Dion Sanders, you know, as they're
kind of moving moving through the documentary. But man I
just thought it was so well done. There were there
were so many you know, little little nuggets you know
(24:47):
here and there that that either I didn't remember or
that I had never heard. Uh So, you know that
was that was really fascinating just to you know, just
kind of hear some of the those But you know,
the first episode, in my mind was just so so
(25:09):
well done. And some of the things that were in
that first episode that you know that I didn't remember.
So you know, all this went down in eighty eight
and eighty nine, you know, and I was fourteen fifteen
at the time. We were living here in Dallas for Worth,
So I remember some of these things, but not you know,
(25:32):
not at at the level that that they you know,
really talk about in the documentary in this first episode.
But you know, I did, you know, just the from
the meeting that you know, Jerry Jones has with Jimmy
Johnson at the at the Little Mexican Food restaurant and
(25:56):
you know, the media somehow finds out out, you know,
about this this meeting, and it's all it's all over town,
right and oh it just so happens. By the way,
that was one of Tom Landry's favorite restaurants to go to.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And that just kind of adds a little salt, you know,
to the to the wound from just that.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I didn't I remember the reaction to the firing of
of Tom Landry. I mean you you couldn't. You couldn't
be a Cowboys fan. You certainly couldn't be here at
DFW and not remember just the you know, the fan
backlash to that. But but they even showed this brief
clip of of you know, Jerry sitting in the middle
(26:40):
of Old Texas Stadium with with Sam Donaldson.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
On you know, ABC News and uh uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Donaldson just grilling you know, genes, you know, over the
firing of Tom Landry, like it like it was like
this was this was a national national thing.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It was national headline, right.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Did not remember, you know, the parade for Tom Landry
in downtown Dallas. One hundred thousand people show up for
this coach, legendary coach, but a coach who had just.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Been fired and let go like you you don't hear
of that, right? And I did not remember that?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And so that was fascinating just to kind of relive that,
you know, have the whole connection between Jerry and Jimmy
from for all the way back in college and and.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And all that.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
So you know, man, I could I could probably go
episode by episode and highat certain things. But those are
some of the Some of the things that that at
least in that first episode that I didn't exactly remember
or didn't know about, I just found really fascinating, but
just a just a fantastic documentary.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Fire And one of the things that it pointed out
that I had forgotten anew and forgotten is that Jerry
Jones almost became the owner of the San Diego team,
San Diego Chargers, And that what I didn't know that
the that the documentary pointed out is how Jerry Jones
(28:14):
was so fascinated with owning an NFL you know, professional team.
That is like his final paper in college talked about
basically how marketing can change the game. You know. So
this is this is not something that Jerry just happened
into because the the oil rig, you know, actually produced oil.
(28:35):
This is something he dreamed about even even as a boy.
And you know, as I see that part, I think,
how different would our lives be as cowboy fans if
he went through and San Diego would be dealing with
the drama, not the Cowboys. And then of course Jerry Jones,
had he not struck oil on that one rig, you know,
he bet hard on it, took that money to Dallas
(28:58):
and bought the Cowboys. I mean, just the story of
Jerry Jones and his thought process and how he got
to owning the Cowboys is just so fascinating it is.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And he wanted a team that would also making famous
and it paid off because it boy has it ever
And he's in the Hall of Fame, not necessarily because
he's a great general manager. He's in the Hall of
Fame because he literally did change the financial trajectory of
(29:31):
the NFL. He is important, and it's just what you said, Scott,
it's because he transformed the marketing of the NFL in
a mighty way.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But here's what I find if I can't here's what
I find so ironic about it, and I think this
documentary pointed it out. He went against all the other
owners when he started to introduce you know, like, okay,
now the official soft k of Texas Stadium is the
different soft drink of the NFL. And now where the
(30:06):
Nike will be our official uniform. Even though Rebok had
a deal with the NFL, the owners got upset that
there's a big, famous lawsuit. They end up settling it.
You can look at that moment and say the NFL
is valued way more because of Jerry Jones. But remember
their retaliation was a salary cap, and Jerry Jones has
it figured out how to win under the salary cap.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, and Scott, that's the fascinating part to me, because
Jerry Jones had said when the Cowboys were winning the
Super Bowls, I want to be the owner who's also
physically responsible, and he can't figure out how to do it,
and that's part of the problem. What also amazes me
(30:48):
is a lot of people forget in eighty nine he
went a couple of weeks really wondering how he was
going to make payroll. He had leveraged everything to buy
that team and was kind of in deep trouble until
he figured out a way to get out of it.
And that's why the Gambler is such an appropriate title
(31:10):
for him. But yeah, he's also a maverick. He will
do things the way he wants to. I heard him
say one time that he ranks very high on being
able to deal with ambiguity in really not knowing how
things are going to turn out, and that's obvious. Unfortunately,
(31:32):
all of his gambles have of late have kind of
gone south on it, and he has he really is
becoming if I can compare this a Tom Blandry like figure,
because Tom Landry hung on with the Cowboys because he
wanted to win one more super Bowl. That was his goal,
(31:53):
and he had told people around everywhere that if I
win one more, I'm going to quit. I'm done, and
it was a disaster form. I think Jerry wants to
desperately win one more super Bowl and be able to
say I did it my way without without Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh absolutely, But I.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Think he's going to end up like Landrig on that
and just coming short and not being able to.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But the day he is gone, I don't think they're
going to be throwing a parade with one hundred thousand
people in Dallas with all due respect.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
No, because I don't know. They might, I see, I
don't because he's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, Shirley just neled on the head if he's gone. Yeah,
because I think people are so frustrated with him right now,
and you know, I talk about the real Cowboys to me,
the Cowboys were in the seventies where for I think
it was eighteen or nineteen years there was one break
(32:57):
in seventy four where they were in the playoffs every year.
You could. They played in twelve under landry they played
in twelve NFC championship games. That's mind blowing. That competes
with what the Patriots did. You know, it's and now
(33:17):
you look at the Cowboys. This was the way it
was at my school this week. Our principal said, Hey,
if you guys, if the Cowboys win, we could wear
jeans on Monday. That day we're walking around going there's
no prayer, We're not going to wear jeans on Monday.
And that's what it's become. And before you went into
(33:37):
a Cowboys game, we're going to win, and now it's like, oh,
I play.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Well, surely. One of the other things that I thought
was interesting, you mentioned, you know, the beginning of the
documentary and kind of how things started happening the end
of the Jimmy Johnson Jerry Jones story. And we knew
there was tension, it was well public size going into
the last Super Bowl that Johnson coached in before he
(34:05):
stepped away. What I didn't know and somehow just missed it,
you know, kind of like you like life's happening. Was
the whole incident in Orlando, Florida when all the players
and coaches are getting together. That happened over a drink.
Jimmy just wanted Jerry just wanted to be recognized and
as one of the boys. And that's where out of
(34:26):
that came that famous quote with this team, I can
win with five hundred coaches. It's it's interesting how ego
really just destroyed what was a great beginning. I mean,
they could have had a run like the Patriots did
had they put ego aside.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
Oh absolutely yeah. And I didn't remember that incident either.
You know, Jerry, It's at winter meetings and Jimmy Johnson
is sitting there with his coaching staff and Dave Once
that was there because they obviously they interviewed him in
the documentary and Jerry, Jerry walks up and you know,
(35:08):
they're all having a drink whatever and and he uh,
he raises, he raises, Jerry Jones raises a glass and
Jimmy Johnson is the only one not to raise a glass.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Right and uh, And that was that was it.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
That was that was the that was the final straw,
that that broke the camel's back. And and uh, you know,
hearing a couple of longtime cowboys beat writers and Edward
was one of them that they interviewed. I think Goslin
was the other one. And uh, you know, Jerry Jerry
(35:44):
and in essence lets them know, you know, tomorrow, I'm
I'm firing his behind, but he didn't use the word behind.
So you know, man, they would have the Cowboys absolutely
would have. You can already you can argue that, you
know that they did have a dynasty there in the nineties,
but man, it would have it would have lasted so
(36:08):
much longer it would it would have it would have
been protracted throughout the the entire you know nineties, had
had they just figured out a way to you know,
to to get along and you know, not not have
to have you know, all of all of the recognition.
I thought it was really funny that, you know, Jerry
(36:30):
admitted that when when he got home after he fired
you know, Jimmy, that that his wife. You know, it
was like you just can't help yourself, right, you know,
you have, you have it all, everything's going well, you
just can't help yourself, but just just mess it up.
I thought it was really interesting that that he would
(36:51):
he'd admit that, right, but you know he he uh
through many times throughout the documentary, you know, submitted the
fact that he kind of he kind of likes ambiguity,
He kind of likes living in the midst of chaos
and certainly enjoys the soap opera in the circus that
(37:13):
oftentimes is the Dallas Cowboys, as we have just seen
with this whole Michael Parsons thing.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
All right, So just one more known in the documentary,
and then two more things real quickly as far as
you know the press around the documentary. One was it's
interesting to note what his father did. His father worked
in the in the grocery business, was a marketer in
his own right, and made a comment to his son
(37:43):
that when he said, you know, son, you better make
sure that rather it's smoking mirrors. You better make sure
this is successful or look successful, or you will never
overcome that. And I thought, well, there it is a
lot of smoking mirrors. That advice came from his dad,
Thank you, dad. And here's the two things I found funny.
So Jimmy Johnson was at the Arkansas Football Club. He
(38:08):
was being honored for his contribution to the game of
football to the University of Arkansas. And it's kind of
this interview style. And it was after the documentary came
out and someone asked him, you know, natural, what do
you think about the documentary. He goes, well, I'll put
it this way. He said, when Jerry Jones came to
tell me, we were in Carolina, North Carolina, when he
(38:28):
came to tell me that I was going to be
in you know, basically added to the ring of honor.
Finally he made and all the Netflix documentary was there.
All the cameras were rolling in that moment, which by
the way, did not end up in the documentary. This
particular moment, he said, Jerry told this very off colored joke,
and I looked at him. I said, Jerry, the cameras
(38:50):
are rolling here. He goes, don't worry. They're giving me
final say on the product. He said, So let's just
say that's the Jerry Jones documentary. So I thought that
was interesting to note from Jimmy Johnson. And then the
other thing. Dion Sanders on the NFL Network was being
interviewed and asked about this and what's going on? And uh?
(39:13):
And the question that was asked to him, he goes,
you know, you have different names on your phone. You
don't actually put, you know, like Jerry Jones in your
in your phone. He said, so when you played for
the Cowboys, he said, what what was what was Jerry
Jones under? And Dion being Dion says, direct deposit direct
(39:36):
deposits calling me anyway, all right, one more thing. We
talked about it last week. I just got to throw
it out again, Shirley, I again. I stayed up late
to watch this one last night in twelve innings, the
Texas Rangers beating the Houston Astros on a walk off,
walk off hit by someone that was just brought up
(39:58):
from Triple A recently. Now the Rangers are just half
a game away from a wild card spot, four games
away from the top of the of the Al West.
Are they roping you back in yet?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I'm not falling for it.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I have not.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I have not watched a Ranger game in about three weeks.
And that's that's saying something.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
So no, they're gonna have to like sweep this series
or something to probably pull me back in.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
When I was watching the game last night Byram, I
guess the exciting and frustrating part is the Rangers' bats
have woken up. The pitching was okay, but I think, man,
how great would this team be if we didn't lose
some key pitching down the stretch? Is now the bats
are siding? No, well, this is how you hit the ball?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah it, But my fear is is how long does
the does the bats? And we still have severe pitching problems.
So I'm with Shirley. I've got to see them win
some more because they don't. You know, we're in big trouble.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I gotta be honest. Watching the game on the CW
last night, I was excited to see the Rangers pull
off the win. A big, big slate of college games today,
we won't get into that, but we will certainly talk
about it next week. For Chris Shirley and Chris Byram,
I'm Scott Miller until next time. So long, everybody,
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