Conversations with Jacob Ep.74:Coma & Near Death Experience w/ Alan Pearce

Alan Pearce is a journalist, broadcaster, former BBC correspondent, and author of several books. He has contributed to numerous publications, from Time Magazine to The Sunday Times of London. He lives in Nouvelle Aquitaine, France. www.alanpearce.com www.comapodcast.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Andy Barney, Opie Goober, Floyd de Barber. That's some of
the names from the Andy Griffith Show. Drop by Two
Chairs No Waiting, the Andy Griffer Show Fan Podcast, and
we'll visit with some of those folks, along with tribute
artists and fans and just all kinds of things related
to the Andy Griffith Show. I'm your host, Alan, YOUUSEM
and you can find the show Two Chairs No Waiting

(00:23):
at two Chairsnowaiting dot com or on iTunes.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
How any partners you're listening to Conversations with Jacob hosted
by my good friend Jacob Waller. Make sure to check
out the podcast where podcasts are available, and check out
the video version on YouTube. You can follow us on
social media Facebook is Conversations with Jake twitter is at

(01:02):
CWJ podcast, and you can visit our website Conversations with
Jacob podcast dot weebley dot com. Hey you got a
show idea, maybe a guest suggestion, Email us at Conversations
with Jacob at gmail dot com. Now here's your host,

(01:24):
Jacob Waller and what's going on every Welcome second Conversations
with Jacob.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Hang on, Jacob, make the second time that that's happening
on the podcast anyways, And welcome back to another episode
of Conversations with Jacob, episode number I think it's seventy four. Today,
we got a good episode for you, and we're talking
comas and near death experience. But before we get to

(01:54):
our guests this week, oh, don't do a few podcast
plugs and also a few announcements. Uh, I'm how to
send the intro. Check out our Facebook page. Uh, it's
Facebook dot com. Just type in Conversations with Jacob And
we're not on Twitter no more as a matter of fact,
and we work in Uh we're countying the process of

(02:14):
having the intro kind of redone. So so you can
check us out on iHeartRadio, We're on Amazon, We're on Audible,
We're on Pandora. We're on about twenty different sites at
this point. Of course, you got a question, guest, suggestion, whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Oh, you can send an email to our mail back
Conversations with Jacob at gmail dot com. Also you can
send us a voicemail, uh through our voicemail link and
the description below, and also on our website, which is
Conversations with Jacob podcast dot weeblee dot com. Also on

(02:55):
the website. You can find up coming guests, past guests,
and and just you know, you know, and just so
much more over there, you know, you know, over on
the website, you know, and there's just a lot of
things going on over there. You know. It's kind of
hard to promote it all. I'll see you. Like other podcasts,
check out Two Chairs No Wading is an Andy Griffin
fan podcast hosted by my good friend mister Ada Newsom.

(03:18):
Check it out two Chairs Noodwading dot com or on
YouTube and also on iTunes. And I'm not done yet.
And if you like cars and trucks, or if you
or if you like cruisings in general, check out the
Cruising in Ricky Mount, Virginia. The next one is September seventh,

(03:38):
out of this record in September seventh, twenty twenty four.
Then if you missed that one, check it out October fifth.
And if you miss that one, check out it check
it out November second. And the four locations are the
Franklin County High School, the lowest parking lot that it's
the Rocky Mount Smoke cous and the Shoals parking Lot

(03:59):
from five ten pm. That's every that's the first Saturday
of every month. That's a lot to see anyways, and
Andrew and my guess this week is Adam Pierce. He's
the author of Coma and Near Death Experience, The Beautiful
and disturbment and disturbing and dangerous world of Unconscious. Uh So,

(04:24):
with no further So, with no further introduction, please welcome
add into the podcast. What's going on? Alan?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Then, Jacob, thank you so much for having me. Looking
forward to telling you about events within coma.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Absolutely Now I gotta ask you here and how did
you come up with researching about coma's.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well, you would think it just about the last subject
to choose if you were going to write a best
selling book, that is for that is for sure. It's
supposed to be a blank in people's lives. Bundy COVID.
We didn't have a lot on. My wife Beza well
at this time a private investigator. I'm a journalist, and
we didn't have much on and we were watching the

(05:05):
TV news, so I think most of us were. And
yet more and more people with COVID were being placed
into medically induced comas, and I just wondered, why, how
does that work? Must be a good thing. I just
wanted to know, so I sort of went to Google
asked there, and the answer is that COMA is in

(05:26):
fact an essential tool in critical care and has been
for the last fifty years. It enables a deeper, restorative
form of sleep that gives the patient the best possible chance,
and there should be no events within coma. It should
be another blank. It turns out that none of that
is true, and it took me a while to discover this,

(05:49):
but we had time on our hands. I joined a
Facebook group, the COMA Survivors Group. I told the able
in what I was doing and that I was interested
to see what COMA survived has had to stay about
the event, and I was allowed to sit on the sidelines,
as it were. I wasn't posting how people were recounting
the most remarkable events within COMA, given that it's supposed

(06:13):
to be a blank. Now people were having horrendous, nightmarish
events where events within the hospital were weaving themselves into
their reality, and the other wise kind and caring doctors
and nurses were now murderous sadists who are out to
kill and torture the patient. This is exactly common. Other

(06:36):
people have the near death experience what could be described
as the typical near death experience. They're in the land
of exquisite bleak beauty countryside, maybe they meet their dead relatives,
maybe they climb the stair way to heaven. This is
what counted regularly with it within coma. Other things that
people reporting within COMA are alternate lives. And when I

(07:00):
say it all turn it lives, it's not perhaps like
past life progression. These people are actually living minute by
minute and alternate life spanning in some cases decades, with
all the normal trappings of a regular life, you know,
like parting down jobs, getting married, going on vacation, having kids,
that kind of thing. So the other thing that people

(07:23):
were reporting on this Facebook Survivors COMA Survivors group were
a range of physical and mental ailments that were all
remarkably similar, given that people had been placed in the
coma for a different range of reasons. And suddenly alarm
bells were just going off, and it goes to me,
why hadn't these alarm bells gone off before we showed up.

(07:46):
So that's to set the scene as it were, And
at this point I think we realized that we had
something important to investigate, and we will probably thinking of
an article or something along those lines. But over time
I got to know the coma survivors and many of
them have become friends, and it's taken many of the

(08:06):
months to recount their events, and we realize this is
way way bigger. And we also discovered that you shouldn't
really be placing people into a medically induced coma outside
of a handful of instances someone's having a brain seizure,
certain type of wounds such as abdominal and complications after
heart surgery. Other than that, there's really no reason to

(08:28):
place someone within a coma, and yet everybody does it.
Hospitals around the world are doing it as we speak,
and it has terrible effects on the patients. It's proven
in the medical literature to be lethal. The longer you're
in a coma, the lesser chances of survival. Physically, if
you do survive it, your body is a complete wreck.

(08:50):
You've got skeletal damage, nerves are disconnected, shocking muscle wastage.
On top of that, people report terrible told problems with
their memory. Oftentimes can't remember their job that they were
doing beforehand. Many a time, they don't really seem to
remember their life before coma, and they've just felt that

(09:12):
they're pretending to be the people that their friends and
family expect them to be, and that they're just acting
some role and all of this. That's up to a
terrible amount some things happening to people unnecessarily. So that's
how we began our story, our investigation.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Now as someone that's been in a coma, how they
come out of it and how does their body change?

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Well, for one thing, if you're in a coma, you
don't get any exercise. At best. They're turning you every
two hours to avoid bed source. And it's known that
immobility causes a massive amount of problems. For example, you
know we've all thought that bed rest. You know, I

(09:58):
don't feel well, go to bed for a few days,
I'll get better. This has been standard medical practice as
it were, recommending bed rest for about two thousand years. Now.
We've discovered in recent years that just one week of
bed rest results in the loss of forty four zero
percent of lean muscle. That's one week. You could be

(10:20):
in a coma for three weeks, four months, whatever, and
the damage that causes, as I said before, you've got
nerve damage, you've got skeletal damage, and when people have
lost so much muscle, you think it would be apparent
that because they're pumped so full of fluids that become puffy.
Often they're carrying excess weight, fifty pounds in fluid, and

(10:45):
you just cannot see this damage. And then they try
to stand up at some later point and they just
can't because is nothing supporting them. So that's physically what
it's done. Mentally, what's happening to somebody within a coma
is the lost thing. You would think that they're actually
suffering from sleep deprivation because you've swiped off the brain.

(11:07):
I mean think of it this way. You've got a
desktop computer. If you unplug it, it's not going to work.
So that's how the brain is going to be if
you're in the deepest state of coma. But when that happens,
you do not go through your circadian rhythms, you do
not experience remsleep. Just three days without remsleep can result

(11:28):
in It will tip most people over the edge. It's
used university as of torture. Beyond that, you're into a
cute brain failure. One of the doctors that we interviewed,
Dr Wezzi Lei from Vanderbilt, one of the very few
doctors who was becoming concerned about his comavations. He had
one woman who was a mathematical whiz prior to her coma,

(11:51):
and when Dr Wezie matter after, he couldn't even add
up her checking account and she got from an impressive
IQ of one hundred and forty. Doctor Witz carried out
another one on how I had a done for her,
and she came up at one hundred certain pawning loss,

(12:12):
they put her into an MRI scanner. I forget exactly
how old she was, say mid thirties. When they looked
at her brain, she had the brain of a very
old woman with dementia. Parts of her brain has shod
during the ConA. Now no one ever gets to see
this because once you're if you think that critical care

(12:36):
has become a conveyor belt of care in that everyone's
so busy, no one ever gets to look over their
shoulder the product coming off the other end. They don't
see the damage that they're causing. People have moved down
the line fairly rapidly. After intensive care, they try and
get them out as fast as they can. Often, if
you've been on a mechanical ventilator such as COVID. You

(12:57):
can't speak for weeks at a time after because of
the damage to vocal cords. So you're coming out of
these circumstances and you can't express them to anyone. People
tell me when they've come out of a coma that
they don't recognize humans. For example, now you might come
out of your coma and there's this family all happy

(13:18):
to see you, and you haven't got the first clue
who they are, and you know they're crying, they're so happy,
and they're calling you by a particular name, and you
don't know yourself by that name, and you can't even say,
hang on, guys, you know I'm this person. I think
I think you're in the wrong room. You can't even
do that. So you've got to live with this until

(13:39):
you start getting your voice back, because you're faced with
so many other problems. You can't walk, you know, sometimes
you can't even use a knife for fork. You've forgotten
so much of your language that it takes a long
time before anybody even ventures to explain some of the
events within coma. From an alternate life, a completely rich,
real alternate life, all in clear consciousness. None of this

(14:02):
is my griefs or the completely horrendous nightmas that now
prevent you going to sleep because you just don't want
to go back to the very depths of hell. So again,
people are going through life post coma were sleep deprived
because they're just not getting enough sleep because they just
can't bear to be in that world.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Now, how you said had you reached out to survivors?
High question is how did any of them? Did any
of them had you come forward and talk to you
about their experience?

Speaker 4 (14:36):
Okay, they're not the easiest people to talk to, mostly
because they don't necessarily know that others have gone through
the same experience. Because nobody tolds them at the hospital,
They've necessarily not got anyone to discuss events that they've experienced.
If they do, they're just told you've had an hallucination,

(14:59):
you've been delirious. These are false memories. You should put
them out of your mind and move on. So often
they're just on their own. I managed to find people
by posting on forums like Korra and Reddit and so forth,
not saying have you been in a coma, please write
to me, but just asking about what events within coma

(15:21):
can anybody told me this? Anyone told me that? And
then that way, people were coming up to saying, I
haven't spoken to anybody about this before, but what you've
just said resonates with my experience, and then over time
people will tell me that the events that happened to them.
In other cases, we've posted on Facebook groups such as

(15:41):
the Coma Survivors Group, and a number of people, not
as many as one mode, but a number of people
came forward and wishing to share their experience because they know,
because having been in said comb Survivors group, that it's
vitally important to share this message to know that you're
not alone. It's fair to say we've got more than

(16:01):
twenty coma survivors helping us with the book. The vast
majority for sure or thought they'd gone mad, absolutely gone mad,
lost their mind. And you come out of a coma
and you've had another lifespan and say twenty years, as
far as you're aware, you've got a different partner, different kids,
if an occupation, all the rest of that. How the

(16:22):
heck can you even begin to explain that to someone?
Because it's so outside of all our experiences that no
one will take you seriously thanks to COVID because so
many people globally, millions of people globally were placed into
medically induced comas. It's possible to see the damage now
because of the sheer scale of it, because so many

(16:44):
people have come out of this damaged. Of many cases,
it's been put down to long COVID because symptoms in
some cases appear similar. That's almost like brushing it under
the carpet. What's really happening to people? If they survive,
they could come out with what's done called post intensive
care syndrome PICKS. It is everything I just said, the

(17:05):
muscle wastage, that, the brain damage, the inability to do
this or do thatout, not wanting to sleep, all those things.
Funny enough, the people that need to know most about
this the people that work in critical care, but unfortunately
most of them are up to speed. It goes like this.
COVID was largely used to blame. People have been placed

(17:28):
in medically induced commers for fifty plus years. In the
last few years, let's say, the last decade or so,
some doctors some gnosis have woken up to the damage
that they're causing and there was slowly change. People were
beginning to listen. Then COVID struck, and then suddenly every
intensive care unit in the world was overwhelmed. It experienced

(17:51):
this critical care staff burnt out at a rate of knots,
including those that were trying to operate by not putting
people into comas. They just burned out. That there was
substance abuse PTSD, suicidal notions, all these things were documented.
Many have left, and people have come into intensive care

(18:12):
who really knew nothing about it. They've not studied intensive care.
They've kind of been thrown in at the deep ed
and they're kind of staying there now. And because the
way hospitals are working, because everyone's so strapped for cash,
everyone's so short staffed, it's now become expedient to put
people into coness because one mask can haddle half a
dozen patients, say total, in the f two hours, whereas

(18:35):
in an ideal world you could have twonesses to the
patient in intensive care watching them every minute. Or of
this is gone now. So this is one terrible terbal
effects on COVID, And it looks like we're stuck this
way because every day I have news alerts for you know,
people in medically induced comers unless thee people being placed

(18:55):
into coness all around the world for the most remarkable
range of illnesses, none of which recommended in the medical textbooks,
none of which only as I said earlier, you know,
the brain seizure of certain wounds and certain complications after
heart surgery. Beyond that, no, and yet everyone does it.
And these are the reasons they do it, because of

(19:16):
short staffing and because they just seem to think it's expedient.
They even think it's cheaper in the long run, but
it turns out to be more expensive in the because
the damage that people suffered the longer in the healthcare system.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Now do you think more people was put in the
commas hand during COVID.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Absolutely, they just didn't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
You know what.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
One that's described it as a whole new terrain where
we have no map. They had things that they look
at in the past. For example, there's a particular complaint
called ODDS acute, the spiritually just distress syndrome. It's invariably fatal,
and what they tend to do with those patients is
they put them on mechanical ventilators to help them breathe,

(20:03):
and they deeply sedate them to make them comfortable. They
can see that they're oxygenating better, they don't appear to
be kicking up any fast, so they appear comfortable. So
that's how they treat them, and basically they need them
like that, give them the best care they can until
they die. When COVID came along, because the symptoms are
in some sense is similar, they didn't know what to

(20:24):
do other than let's place them to a medically induced coma.
And this is what happened everywhere, everywhere in the world.
No one knew what to do. And this is the
other thing that so many doctors and nurses firmly believe,
you cannot be on a mechanical ventilator and conscious people
will fight the vent you know, they will buy it.

(20:46):
They will, you know, all the rest of them. And
this is not true. There aren't many doctors and nurses proportionately,
not that many, but there are many that daily are
placing people onto mechanical ventilators and they're not sedating. They're
briefly sedating and telling them what they're going to do,
how this is the best thing for them, and then

(21:07):
they bring them around again within minutes, and they do
it in such a gentle calm way that allows the
person to get used to the tube. If you think
about it, we never stopped to think about our breathing
at any time. Suddenly, when you've got a tube down
off throat, this is the first thing you're thinking about.
After a time, once you're comfortably distracted, you just don't
think about it. And modern ventilators, the micropressor microprocessor controlled,

(21:33):
and they allow the patient to initiate the breathing, so
it's not like some giant arm lung that's just breathing
for you at some uncomfortable pace. You set the pace
so actually it's quite comfortable in the scheme of things.
And you know, we couldn't go out during COVID to
the hospitals we would like to have visited. But many
doctors and nurses centers videos of patients who've been placed

(21:53):
on mechanical ventilator and they're setting up right. In some
cases there was one guy running a business of his lineaptop,
and others were communicating with the staff and their relatives
by texting on their phones. And overall, this is how
patients should be because they are alerts, they're awake, they're
invested in their own recovery because they're not effectively as

(22:17):
sack of potatoes in the bed being turned every two hours.
The onness is to get them out of beds as
soon as possible, gentle, gentle exercise. Then they become naturally tired,
and then it does a sleep properly as a consequence
of that. All of this is in the medical literature. Yeah,
the any of this is being practiced in intensive care

(22:37):
units around the world.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Now. Doctors say that any memories from athena coma hardras
a drug induced. But do you think otherwise?

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, okay, I mentioned earlier, alternate lives spanning decades. You know,
can you name any drugs that will give you an
alternate life spanning decades or just a fortnight passes in
this world? Because if there were such a thing, we
would all know about it. So you can't really break
blame the drugs for that. You can blame the drugs

(23:12):
for the damage that's caused. You know, A common drug
that they use in coma is proper for it's the
drug that's thought to have killed Michael Jackson, the King
of Pop, and it causes appalling side effects myyalgia, which
is pain all over your entire body, memory problems, all
the rest of it. Now, say somebody were taking it recreationally,

(23:35):
they would take a small amount. But when you're on
a coma, you're in a constant drip of this stuff.
It's just building up in your system because your kidneys,
we're not going through the twenty five hour cycle, because
your brain switched off. This stuff's not getting process. So
it's all in your system. And that's just one drug.
It's opiates, it's Benzo's, the's all sorts of things. Depends
where you are what they will give you. None of

(23:57):
it is healthy at all. And if you think that,
more often than not, if you're going into hospital for
a routine operation, they will try now not to give
you a general anesthetic. They like to try and give
you a local whatever possible. The reason for this is
because they know the damage it causes. Even for a

(24:17):
short period. If somebody is on an operating table and
they've given anesthesias to the point of unconsciousness, they are
in the coma. Admittedly it's a shortcomer, but they're in
a coma. Operations that last say four to six hours.
People are coming out of that, and it says war
proven in the medical literature. They're coming out. It's brain damaged.

(24:40):
It may be mild cognitive impairment, it may be much
more serious whatever. When they come out of these things,
doctors will say to them, yes, you may feel a
bit groggy for a little while. This will wear off.
It doesn't wear off, And then eventually they're told, well,
I'm sorry, but I think you've got early onset dementia.
No One then tries to pin to the operation because

(25:01):
that would be a hospital acquired condition. Now you just
multiply that, you know, four to six hours on the
table compared to say four weeks, three months or whatever
in a coma, and you're having those drugs pumped into
your system. It causes immense damage. You've become addicted to
things you don't even know the name of. You've got

(25:22):
all the withdrawal symptoms from the opiates and the benzo's
and the propafile have just done such damage, such terrible
damage to your brain that you're never the same person again.
But doctors and nurses will try and avoid talking about
it because it is a hospital acquired condition and it's

(25:42):
not covered by insurance, and obviously they don't want to
know you to know about it, so they fob you
off and they just say, yeah, it's a temporary blip,
you know, and events within coma. Yeah, these are hallucinations.
They tell you, this is delirium. Now, if you aren't conscious,
you can't hallucinate or be delirious because these are conscious states.

(26:05):
To hallucinate, you invariably need your eyes open. So as
an explanation, it's rubbish. They also say these are false memories.
You see, where does the false memory come from? Why
they're having one? And a doctor will tell you that
it's the brain's way of making up for the lost
time that you spent in the hospital. My first question

(26:27):
is how does the patient know they've lost time? If
they've been unconscious, it could have been ten minutes, right,
it could have been two weeks. How would they know that?
If they wake up and they see a hospital around them,
the chances are they're going to think, I've had some
kind of mishap and I'm in hospital, rather than the
mind creating alternate life spanning decades where you've got completely

(26:49):
different partner, completely different children by way of explaining why
you have to be lying in the hospital. Ward, that
makes no sense. So the false memory things just a theory,
and it's a completely nonsense theory. People within COMA are
going places, they're really going places within our system. We've

(27:10):
got two triggers for the events that some of which
will resemble the psychedelic experience. Let's say when people have
been put on an EEG brain scan when they've been
experimenting with psychedelics. Rather than the brain lighting up, the
brain quietens down, particularly a part of the brain known

(27:33):
as the default mode network. This regulates our conscious reality.
If you connect, say, Buddhist monks to the same kid,
you will look at their brains where they're in transcendental meditation. Again,
the brain is extremely quiet, particularly the default mode network.
This clearly happens within COMA. It's proven to so straight away.

(27:55):
By switching off the one part of the brain that
regulates our conscious reality, you've got an expansion of consciousness.
So in many times the events within COMA resemble those
of a psychedelic experience. Additionally, the human body produces its
own psychedelic compound. The mt are trying to pronounce it.
It's the key ingredient in the Amazonian mystic brew Aahuascar,

(28:20):
And it's thought that it's released in the system at
the point of death, at the point of perceived death.
It's uneffical to examine a healthy human being to look
for DMT production just can't be done. So they don't
know where we produce it in our systems remarkably, but

(28:41):
they do know it's in our systems. People suffering from
schizophrenia often have high concentrations of DMT within this system.
So if you look at events that people experience with ayahuasca,
in many cases they are remarkably some to those within COMA.
So we can see these triggers. When people have a

(29:02):
near death experience, it's thought that the DMT is being
released at this point. It's not to deride the experience
and just give it a scientific explanation. I mean, why
have we got DMT in our system. It's like a
key opening a door, and is it to ease our
passing or is it to lead us to where we're
going next? And having spoken to a number of co

(29:24):
survivors who clinically died and were resuscitated and came back
and told me that we're standing on the edge of
this life and the next. When you've had enough people
telling you this, it comes harder to believe, and these
I think are brought on by the DMT. Ah how

(29:45):
and why people are experiencing alternate or past lives living
the minute by minute. We can't find a parallel for
that anywhere. People will say, for example, I dream that
I'm in this other world. I regular a dreamy go
to some particular town. In this town, I actually got
a slight map of it in my head. I know

(30:06):
where things are. People talk about that, but it's not
the same. It's dream like. You know, when people are
experiencing on a toneent life within coma or any events
within coma, they will often tell you it's more real
than reality, that the senses are on overdrive. You know,
if they're drinking a margarita, they can taste the margarita,

(30:27):
they can get the buzz off the margarita. If they
think they're on fire, they're on fire and they feel it.
And people really feel these experiences. To be told, it's
a false memory, something that your brains has come up
with to explain why you're lying flattered in your back.
It's just nutty. It just makes no sense. But doctors

(30:47):
for some reason hold onto this that the reason in
fact is that we're living in a world of materialistic
science where they can only view things, examining things if
they can weigh or measure them, or slice them up
and what have you. Because consciousness, you can't weigh it
or measure them to do anything. You can't look at

(31:08):
under look at it under a microscope. They tend to
ignore it. So when they can't explain our constant, our
current level of consciousness, they can't explain that at all.
So they can't begin to explain the levels of consciousness
that people experience within coma. So all they can do
cautious too, that there's often the damage from this is

(31:28):
a hospital quiet condition. All they can do is just
fob people off. So there are millions of people out
there who've gone through comas who've just been fobbed off,
being told it's a minor blip, whatever the problem is afterwards,
and if you had any memories within there, I'm sorry,
they're just false. Gone on with it.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Now. Have comas are so damaging and even results in death?
And why wantn't this practice can have stopped a long
time ago because.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
No one was looking. It's truly that simple that every
doctor in nurse particularly those in intensive care. They're doing
what they're doing out of the best woman in the world.
They're very, very, very best with their patient, but they've
invariably come through a system where no one has trained

(32:17):
them to understand the events within COMA. For starters, because
they're immediately dismissed, so there's nothing to talk about there
because their supervisor says, you know, this is what we do.
These people are very sick. We have to do this.
It gives them the best chance. And they look around
them and they say that everybody else is doing this.

(32:37):
They tend to follow suit, but it's not taught anywhere.
We contacted the editors of the medical journal The Lancet
when we were researching the book, and we ask them
if they could point us to any articles they published
advocating coma prolonged deep sedation in intensive care. Took a

(33:00):
few days, came back to us and said, no, we
have not published any funny enough none, And they said,
we give your access to our archives, which are insanely vast.
So the two of us plowed through the archives and
there's nothing in there advocating prolonged deep sidation. There is, however,
a wealth of materials say, don't do it. Don't do

(33:22):
it outside of the handful of cases. Don't do it
because it results in brain damage, it results in muscle problems,
it results in skeletal damage. Don't do it. And the
thing to do is, if you have put someone on
a event, just do it gently. Just explained to them
what we're going to do. As I said before, bring
them back round, talk to them nicely, kindly, have a

(33:44):
loved one with them, and they just get into it.
And it's like anything. You're a hospital, you could have
put up with a lot. This is just one other
thing to put up with, and it's much much better
than being completely out of it, perhaps trapped in a
recurring world of nightmares. The things people experience within that
that the COMA events are mind boggling. Oftentimes people would

(34:08):
talk of being trapped in a loop. James, for example,
helped us with the book, was stuck in one particular
loop where he was actually there in the room, could
smell it, taste it, feel it everything, watching his wife
not in this world, his wife in that world, dying
in childbirth, but over and over and over again, and

(34:32):
it felt for him that this was going on for
an eternity. Many people within coma recounting particularly the horror,
horrifying events as loops, that they're stuck in this one
loop over and over and over again when they tried
to bring people out of the medical injurance coma. If
they're coming out of these events, they're coming up panic stricken.

(34:56):
And at one call that she wanted to just pluck
onto anything of this world. She started pulling all the
tubes out of her and there's blood going everywhere, and
then suddenly all the doctors and nurses are panicking or
what do they do? Because she's agitated, as they call it.
They want to spare the patient. They put her back

(35:16):
down again into the coma. And then you're back down again,
watching some terrible, terrible event on a loop, and nobody
wants to bring you out of that coma, because no
one wants the horror of people coming up, the fear
in their eyes, unable to speak but silently screaming and
ripping all the tubes out. So people stay in their

(35:36):
coma much much longer because this shift we don't want
to do it. We pass on to the net shift,
and so on and so forth, and people get stuck
in their comas that way.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Now, how do you know how the longest that someone
that's been in a coma do you have? Like a.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
You know, there's certain types of coning. There are let's
call them spontaneous comas. Outside of a hospital environment. You
may have a traumatic brain injury, for example, you may
suffer some terrible illness such as meningitis that damages your brain.
People have been placed that have found themselves in comas

(36:19):
without the need for artificial respiration in many cases for years,
absolutely years, and I was not able to find anybody
willing to talk about that. It would be remarkable to
see where they have been within that time. Within a
hospital environment, it can be I mean from operating theater,

(36:39):
you know, anything from safe for two to three hours
or something. You're in a coma right up to months
months at a time, three four months, sometimes longer. I
think the longest in the book was four months. And
as well as the four months within a coma, you
can always double that again for the period have to
spend in other parts of the hospital system recovering from

(37:02):
the damage that the coma has caused you. This this
is so much the case and in hospitals where they
avoid placing people into medically induced combas where they keep
them wait, have them moving around from time to time,
and engaged in the Roman recovery. More often than not,
people walk out of that hospital ward. They're not wheeled

(37:25):
out on the gourney to some other care facility where
they still can't speak for months at a time and
are unable to press the alarm bell or do anything
that just vegetables and the one wants to be in
that situation. But the doctors and nurses, the people who
are performing the induced medication operations on people, don't see

(37:46):
the results down the line, so it's just it's just ignored.
That's the double situation we're in.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Now. Now, have you got any bad feedback from the
medical world about what you're talking about?

Speaker 4 (38:06):
No, we're just waiting for that. Yeah, be my wife
of private eye. She's probably even more cynical than I,
so she thinks we're going to get a lot of
stick for this. But I'll look at it this way.
If any doctor or nurse wants to complain that, you know,
all people you don't have to be in a coma, Yeah,
you've only talked to people whove got people that are
not that sick, whatever it's nonsense. I will say to them,

(38:29):
when was the last time you followed a patient home
from intensive care? Because I'd like to know your experience.
There Chances are they haven't because it's beyond exceptionally where
I'll ask them if they could point me to any
medical literature that proves it's a good thing, because as
I say the editors that the Lancet couldn't find any,
We couldn't find any. Many of others looked and can't

(38:51):
find any. So that would be my starting point. But
we are we are sort of expecting stick. However, we've
got a lot of doctors and nurses helping us with
this book. We've got some of the finest people actually
in the world of critical care. I mentioned Dr Wezelia
Vanderbilt earlier. That's what has helped you steer us in
many ways with the book. He wrote the books for it,

(39:13):
which is one heck of been endorsement for you know,
who's arguably the person who is arguably the greatest living
personal expert on critical care. So we feel very, very
very confident in that. Plus two, the back of the book,
there's twenty pages that just lists the medical literature that

(39:33):
everything we say, this stands it all up. And it's
just twenty pages just listing it. And I mean as
a remarkable amount of literature. I might appoint anyone who
is critical of what we were doing to any one
of the papers at the back of the book that'll
explaining the damage that has caused, and particularly since COVID,
because there's been a wealth of material, a lot of

(39:53):
studies since COVID to see, you know, what has happened
to people. And additionally, here's another thing. Because so many
people were placed into coma, a large number of those
people will be creatives in one form or another, writers
and artists and filmmakers. They are now starting to recount

(40:13):
their coma events, and you'll see on Amazon, for example,
under Kindle Books a number of books people are bringing
it out post COVID, just telling of the worlds that
they found themselves in within coma, and probably when they
came out of it, they thought they were the first one,
and they thought they'd gone mad. And only a few

(40:34):
know the right questions to ask us it were. Because
you know, you're put in coma dreams or something into Google,
you're going to get a lot of nonsense from the
medical establishment saying, yes, coma dreams are really common. However,
they're just blips, the results of false memories. You were
hallucinating and you're fobbed off and you may go away.
It is rare that people actually find others who've been

(40:57):
in this situation. I mean at the very very least.
I mean, first of all, they shouldn't be doing this.
They shouldn't place people in the commas. If they were
going to, you should have someone who's been in one
talked to you before you go in. You know, if
you go to the Amazon and you take IASCA, you
prepped yourself, You've read tons of books about the subject,

(41:18):
You've looked on YouTube. You know, you spoke to other
people that have done it. You've even got a you know,
a spirit, and you've got a shaman or somebody's to
guide you in your journey. People within coma haven't got
that luxury. And for example, I'll give you know, we
spoke to Helen who went to the Amazon and did
ayahuascar a number of times. She was fully prepped. She

(41:40):
was told that you may see yourself dye, for example,
so she came face to face with herself in complete
clear consciousness and watched her body just fall to pieces
and worms eat her body, and she's saying, I'm fine
with this. You know, it's like a prep for it all,
something like that, which is almost common. That's sort of

(42:01):
like a feature within coma that you're looking at your
body and it's not your body, and so on and
so forth. How do you feel when you see that
because no one's prepped you. And when you come up
the other end of a coma, why didn't they have
other coma survivors? You maybe even meet them in the groups,
drink and have coffee, and they can explain to you

(42:23):
that what you've been through is common, and this is
where we stand on our current understanding of what it is.
And just know you haven't gone mad and you're not alone.
But don't put people in comas in the first place,
so none of that would actually be necessary. That's the
state of it.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Now for the people in the medical world. And how
can they learn from.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Your book, Well, they can certainly see what coma survivors,
those who've come back have experienced. We follow people through
as it were, as in they talk about their initial
entry into the hospital system. They will talk about being
put down into their coma, the events within come. They

(43:10):
will talk about coming out of their coma, and then
they will talk of the things they have suffered post coma,
some thinking that they're entirely on their own insufferingness, others
knowing that it's something that every comas vibe more or
less goes to them. I'm hoping that doctors and nurses
will actually see what people are experiencing and not just

(43:33):
say it's a a hallucination or a false memory. And
even if it were a hallucination or a false memory,
which patently cannot be take it seriously. Don't treat these
people just like fop them off. It will go away.
Just treat them seriously. But we can't treat them seriously
because they are in the non physical realms. They are

(43:56):
going places that people go when they take DMT, when
they take LSD, when they meditate, all sorts of different things.
They are really going to other realities. But because the
scientific world can't get its head around these other levels
of consciousness, they have got no explanation. They've hit a
brick wall. There is a movement slowly happening within the

(44:18):
medical world that people are waking up particularly okay, because
of artificial intelligence AI, people are really keen to understand
the workings of the mind because one day maybe they're
hoping to create AI with its own consciousness. That we
can't even explain our own consciousness, so how do you

(44:39):
make a model of it? So a lot of people
are telling their attention to what is consciousness beyond the
regular scientific and medical world. I think by doing that,
there's only one avenue that you can explore, and that
is what people term the spiritual or mystic realms. Just
by saying that in the sense kind of degrades it.
These things are really happening. The number of people that

(45:01):
have experienced near death experiences, or in the legion that
there's so many that's happening every day in our modern world.
You can go back since the dawn of time and
find accounts of the near death experience as people are
experiencing them. Now, some of the greatest thinkers in this world,
people like Carl Jong, for example, have experienced these events

(45:24):
within coma. Now, we will take Carl Jong very seriously
on most other subjects, but for some reason we don't
take them seriously on this one. And it's same with
all the other people, from King Solomon to whoever, we
do not take them seriously now because people have run
into a brick wall in their study of consciousness. They
can only go down these realms. And that's ultimately, I

(45:46):
think will be like a light bulb moment when suddenly
people start taking these things seriously, when they interview coma
survivors about the experiences they've had, where have they possibly gone?
And in the same way that more work is going
into exploring psychedelics like DMT for example, a lot of

(46:07):
work going into exploring aahwasca, these things will ultimately lead
up to a greater understanding of consciousness when almost like primitives.
In fact, we are primitive when it comes to understanding consciousness,
something all of us experience minute by minute, and yet
no one can explain it to you.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Now, when your book comes out, how do you think
that people that are that was in a coma, or
the families paraphlow someone to a coma, what do you
think that they will think of your book?

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah, the book, I like to think is a very
easy read. It's just very easy to read the book. However,
it won't always be easy reading. The people who've come
out of a coma. If, for example, they find that
they were placed into a medically just coma and it
wasn't necessary. There's nothing in the medical literature to say

(47:05):
that they should have been and that everything that they're suffering,
they've been told a completely different reason for it, and
suddenly like the pen is dropping, and I think it
will be quite a shock for people. However, it's better
to be able to put a name to your pain.
I think it will bank people thought an awful lot

(47:26):
better that they're knowing to know that they are not
on their own, that many many others have gone through this,
that they did not go mad. For families, there is
a lot of comfort to be taken from the book.
I mean, okay, there's a lot of very strange, dark
things happening in it, but there's an awful lot of
extreme beauty. And as people aren't passing over those as

(47:50):
I mentioned earlier, who died within the hospital situation and
will resuscitated, they all talked to something absolutely astounding, absolutely
so beautiful other realms, and you know, you take one
description Kiara from Piedmont in northern Italy, she finds herself

(48:13):
in this beautiful, magnificent field in her case, she's in
an alpine meadow. You go back to the Egyptian Book
of the Dead, and you'll find people were counting being
in a very similar setting, not an alpine meadow, because
Egypt wouldn't have any, but Italy would. These things are

(48:34):
just so common you can't ignore them. They're patently going
somewhere when they have telepathic communication with people. And before
this started, you know, I would have put this down
to the same category as share is at the bottom
of the garden. And yet now I take this enormosy

(48:55):
seriously because we've approached this with completely open eyes, have
not decided that there is no physical, no spiritual realms.
We're not going to go there. We got taken there.
We were investigating what appeared to be a highly dubious
medical procedure, and where we were taken were basically the
spirit realms, which I wouldn't have believed it. And yet

(49:18):
I now know, because I spoke to so Man New
Diet and I've seen things and I've researched this to
the greatest death possible, that these things have been happening
since forever, and we happen to live in a time
where they're just yeah, people just don't take them seriously.
Whereas you go back a few hundred years, people will

(49:40):
take these things enormously seriously. Other times you have a
vision within a coma or a near death experience, you
might be canonized as a saint. As another time you
might be rushed off to the madhouse, say in the
Victorian era. Now you're just treated with derision. People just like, oh,
it's a joke, you know, it's just one of those
are the new wage mumbo jumbo fantasy things. Whereas I

(50:04):
now know this is not the case. This is too
much evidence. And I think once once the scientists, the
computer scientists, who aren't limited by materialistic thoughts as in consciousness,
we won't go there. They will start to explore these things.
And I think suddenly, once people take it seriously and

(50:26):
you start combining the sciences, we're really going to see
some progress. But for the minute, people aren't stuck in
some kind of dark age of science.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
As we live now and now, and what are the
chances of the event and like those in your book,
can actually happen to anybody like me or people listening
to the to the podcast.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Okay, statistically, if you live in the Western world, you
can expect two to three stays in intensive care unit
in your life. I've had one, maybe got two to go.
If you live in the developed world, you're less likely
to die in accidents or just like out of the blue.
You're more likely to get on well and find yourself

(51:13):
in a hospital. The more unwell you become, the more
likely it is you'll be placed in intensive care unit.
If you were to enter almost any intensive care unit
in this modern world, you would probably get a substantid
level of treatment, as in, you would not get human
connection that people wanted. Why when they joined nursing and

(51:37):
became doctors, they wanted the human connection. You won't get
that anymore. They're so cash strapped. The chances are they
will put you into a coma with COVID. Something like
eighty eight zero percent of those who found themselves intensive
care were placed into medically induced comas. I'm not seeing
a lot of evidence that that is changing. So the

(51:58):
chances of this happening to you you as hip person
listening now, are remarkably high, and they could equally happen
to anyone you love and care for. And one of
the things I would say is like, if it would
happen to anybody I loved and cared for, I'd fight
tooth and nail to prevent them being placed into a
medically induced coma. I would insist first that the hospital

(52:21):
proved to me that what they're going to do is
proven in the medical literature to be the best thing,
because they cannot, and other than that, we won't proceed.
And I think I would have that do a terrible job,
because doctors say, people say doctors know best. People believe that,
and everyone around you would be saying, oh, hell, then

(52:42):
don't be so ridiculous. You know, doctors know what they're doing.
And this is what so many coma patients told me
that they were reticent to be placed into a coma.
In some cases, you know, they were still very quite conscious,
not even thinking though that were unwell in some cases,
and everyone around them was saying, what you know, doctors
know best, You have to do what you're told, and

(53:03):
all the rest of it. Well, doctors and in listences do
not know best. And if you look at history, history
is littered with examples of doctors not knowing best. You know,
no one today, hopefully we'd blame bring blood from a
patient at death's door to balance their humors. But there
were standard medical practice for two thousand years. If we

(53:26):
had a time machine and we went back one hundred
and seventy years and we said to a doctor, oh,
you should wash your hands before touching a patient, they'd
be mortified that you would suggest such a thing to
a gentleman. That they would never contemplate having to wash
their hands, because, oh, gentlemen, that has already clean. Now,
we'd be horrified if that happened today, and I'm thinking

(53:48):
it won't be that far down the line. That would
be just as horrified when we read that people in
the past were placed into medically induced comas, and that
they went to wrongs at that time which were not understood,
which in many respects resemble heaven and resemble hell.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
However darkor want to put someone in a comma? You know,
how can anybody stop that?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Yeah? Well, I know, I say, ask ask him to
prove it first. But who ever tries that. You know,
if I were younger, be bothered. Now I'll have no
coma tattooed across my chest. I would suggestive a way,
he has no coma just across their test. I would

(54:36):
carry a copy of by book and say yeah, okay,
have you read any of this medical literature at the
back and then say no, we won't want to go ahead,
or say if they don't come out, well laugh, are
these hospital acquired conditions? And can you categor categorically assure
us that they are not? Because we will see you
because we are highly litigacious, you know. I mean you

(54:59):
might take that part, but I think most people will struggle.
It's only only when the people who are in the
job now move on, you know, as they go into
another line of career or they retire, and new people
come in. New people who are coming in who are
moving into intensive care as a career choice rather than

(55:22):
finding themself put their diffiller gap. They will be reading
all the current literature. They would not dare to place
somebody into a medical introduced coma outside of the handful
of cases, because they would know the problems, cert and causes.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
The book's being out of a week or something like that.
And one of the nurses that has helped us with
the book Jill Rather Jill Storer in Maryland. She trains
nurses to work in critical care and she's now added
the book to their curriculum, so they can see just
what happens to people within comer and they can also

(56:00):
see examples of other doctors and nurses who've discovered the
damage that they're causing. You've actually put their hands up
and say, you know, yes, inadvertently with the best of
world in the world, I have killed patients. But we
now have developed these new techniques and we do not
need to play someone in a coma. And I think
an awful lot doctors and nurses will learn from that,

(56:22):
and slowly, slowly they will. But it won't be an
overnight thing. It may be a decade, maybe three or
four years, three or four decades, it may be never.
It's very hard to say now.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
And where can people purchase your book at?

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Yeah, the book's available anywhere you buy books. If you
have a favorite bricks and water bookshop, go there and
buy it. Otherwise you can buy it online absolutely anywhere
wherever you are in the world. Anytime soon, there's going
to be an audio book, which highly recommend, particularly because

(57:00):
the book itself. It's more often than not it's other
people talking to you. The listener. People with income are
talking of their experiences or doctors, nurses, other clinicians telling
you how they discover the damage they're causing and so on.
And when it's told, particularly by the voice artist Danny Painter,
who's done on audiobook, it's just stunning. It's just it

(57:24):
just comes alive in such a way. Not to say
the book doesn't. The book's a very good read. However,
you've got a choice there. You've got an audiobook and
you've got a paper book and the need book and
available in all good bookstores.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Now has writen this book changed to you as a person, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
So.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
I'm a journalist. My big thing was foreign affairs, so
I've covered a lot of wars, a lot of disasters
and so on, and I had a very kind of
dead beings dead attitude to the world. And I realized
halfway through writing the book, when someone is very very
close to me died that whilst I had all the

(58:09):
usual you know, grief, et cetera, I realized that you
can't actually die. Because I've spoken to a whole bunch
of people who had died, and they told me that
they went somewhere else, and I can back that up
with all sorts of historical data and other eyewitness accounts.
So I don't think she died. I think we all

(58:30):
move on. And even if you want to get scientific
that the first law of thermodynamics says that energy can
neither be created nor destroyed. So when you know when
Rebecca died, she was a big powerful you know, she
was like, you know, immense pool of energy, and where
does that go? That's disappear, that's to go somewhere. The

(58:53):
first or thermodynamics confirms that one. And when you talk
to people who've been in co those who've done psychedelics,
those who've done the deepest forms of meditation, they all
talk about energy. Everything is connected. We're all connected, and
it's abundantly obvious to people when they take say LSD,

(59:13):
they do cyber masculine whatever, that this energy is all
around us. People in the deepest states of meditation talk
of this energy, and I just know we are part
of that energy source. We all are. And you know,
one theory has it that you know we're all part
of the universe. We're just spirits on a mission to

(59:36):
learn something this time around, and then are going to
go back process what we learned and probably have to
have another go or more many times I would have
laughed at that as a notion as a journalist way back. Now,
no iould put my hand up and I'm sorry. I've
become a spiritual being, not religious, but I've become a
spiritual being as it comes to this, because I just

(59:57):
don'tally believe it now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
And how can people find you on the internet?

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
If you can see my name here on the website
wherever you are Adampiers dot com, it's my website. And
one thing I will say, I hate it when you
find a writer or a journalist and you want to
talk to them and you can't they don't get their
email address. It really annoyed. It really annoys me. So yeah,
I'm a journalist. It's people with stories of my life blood.

(01:00:27):
So please, if you wish to get in touch, you
can do via Alampeers dot com. I guarantee to answer
every email. Maybe not immediately, but I will do it.
And the other thing I would say if you if
you've been in a coma and you you can't get
people to understand what you've been through or you just

(01:00:48):
can't find the words to explain that, just get them
to see them read the book because the book will
explain it for you. Part of the reason, you know
we've read this book, or one of the reasons of
the book I get, is to show comb survivors that
they're not alone. And I think this is fally important
because easily the vast majority do believe that, and that's

(01:01:08):
got to stop just for their mental well being. They
really need to know. As you pointed out earlier, yeah,
this is gonna happen to any one of us. So
I think it's an important read and we should all
buy the book. There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Now, now before we wrap up the party cost which
I ask my guests how to have on but every episode,
how they get a close and thought? And do you
get a close and thought?

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Yes, they really well don't get them. Don't have any
opportunity to find yourself in an intensive care you know,
eat well? This is important. I mean all this stuff
came out with the researching the book. The need to
really really think about what you eat to get enough mobility.
This is really really important. You know, we've got a

(01:01:59):
dog and the head out, a big monster of a dog.
I have to walk and walk him twice a day.
That gives me a dvast amount of entity, not everyone
can keep it up. However, it is invitally important to
keep mentally and physically active, and that keeps you healthy
and hopefully keep you out of intensive care.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Absolutely, and well, Adam what don thank you for coming
on the podcast to talk about commas and also the
mere death experience.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Jacob, thank you so much for having me. It's been
my joy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely, holl right. That wraps it up this week.
For Conversations with Jacob, tune in next Monday and for
another interview until then, Be safe and God bless and
we'll keep you guys right here next Monday. On Conversations
with Jacob