Conversations with Jacob Ep.83:The Dreams Behind The Music w/ Craig Webb

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Got any partners. You're listening to Conversations with Jacob, hosted
by my good friend Jacob Waller. Make sure to check
out the podcast where podcasts are available, and check out
the video version on YouTube. You can follow us on
social media. Facebook is Conversations with Jacob, Twitter is at

(00:50):
CWJ podcast, and you can visit our website Conversations with
Jacob podcast dot weeby dot com. Hey you got a
show idea, maybe a guest suggestion, email I sat Conversations
with Jacob at gmail dot com. Now here's your host,

(01:13):
Jacob Waller.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
And what's going on everybody? And welcome back to another
episode of Conversations with Jacob Wich And this is episode
number just give me a second. This is episode number
I think eighty three, eighty four maybe I'm not quite
sure at this point, but we got a good episode
lined up for you this week, and we're talking dreams
this week. But before we get to our guests, I

(01:37):
want to do a few podcasts. Plus, as always, check
out the Facebook page Conversations with Jacob. You could check
out some episodes that we've posted, and every now and
then we'll give away a teaser here and there. Every
once in a while. Check out the website Conversations with
jacobpodcast dot Weavy dot com. You can check out upcoming guests,

(01:59):
past guest and you can see who's on the podcast
all the way to the end of the year because
I do film these months and events, so that's the
good thing about the website. You can see who's coming
up in November or December or maybe next year. Also,
check out the podcast every Monday at one o'clock. Make
sure to like subscribe to our YouTube channel before we

(02:23):
get Before we get any deeper into this podcast, I
want you to check out Two Chairs No Waiting. It's
Andy Griffin Fan Podcast hosted by my good friend mister
Ouda Newsome and hear us out of Newsome to tell
you more about the podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Andy Barney, Opie Goober, Floyd the Barber. That's some of
the names from the Andy Griffath Show. Drop by Two
Chairs No Waiting the Andy griff Show Fan Podcast and
we'll visit with some of those folks, along with tribute
artists and fans and just all kinds of things related
to the Andy Griffith Show. I'm your host, Alan Youwseom
and you can find the show two Chairs No Waiting

(03:01):
at two Chairsnowaiting dot com or on iTunes.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
And also speaking of two Chairs no Waiting, and you
can check out the life shows every Monday at eight
o'clock Eastern Time at two chairsnowading dot com. And also
if you want to book me for a birthday, a
video or get well soon, retirement, wedding, whatever, if you
want to wish your friends, enemies or frenemies a happy

(03:27):
birthday or whatever the case may be, then you can
book me on cameo just for fifteen dollars, you know,
and that's better than what groceries are today, I suppose.
So I'm jumping right into our guests this week. His
last appearance. His last apparent on the podcast was on

(03:47):
episode seven that was on April twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Joining me this week is dream analysts Arthur Dream and
spirdaventor and song writer. His name is Craig Webb and
Craig is also a Whitey travel trainer and performer who
has done pioneering Lucid dream research at Stamford and design

(04:12):
peak performance devices that has been distributed around the world.
His book, The Dream Behind the Music reveals little known
dreams that inspire tremendous success for over one hundred famous
artis and highlights of the highlights, principles and techniques anyone

(04:33):
can use to harvest their own dreams for a sufficient breakthrough.
And so, with no further ado, let's welcome Craig Web
to the podcast, and Craig and welcome back.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
Well, thanks for having me on. That's a lot of sevens.
Let's see, if you do eighty four minus seven, you
get seventy seven. So we're getting a lot of sevens
here today. Is that like we win a prize or something?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Maybe who knows.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
We won't try to play rolette, But thanks for having
me back.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Oh absolutely. And before we get started into the questions
that I have lined up, can you tell the new
people are returning listeners? Hey, a little bit about you
seven that I didn't mention here in the intro.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yeah, no problem. If folks saw the previous episode, they
might have heard it. But some people like to understand
where I'm coming from. Why, I guess have some experience
with dreaming and some of the principles. And really it
started when I was about twenty one. I was having
a great rafting trip with some friends, and actually I

(05:37):
like to ride the back of the boat because kind
of like the bus, you get like better waves bouncing.
I didn't really have any fear about it. I was
friendly with the water, kayaking, swimming, but in this case
I did have my helmet and life jack and I
got flipped off, I guess at a big rap it
and kind of like a taco, you know, the whole
raft flipped over and I got stuck under and the water,

(06:00):
you know, it's kind of fall imagine cold, silty, so
I can't really see anything, and I think I got
stuck under the rafts. I was stuck there trying to breeze,
trying to breathe, and I didn't really have time for
a air. So after five tens twenty seconds probably I
was like, oh my god, this is it. I guess
I'm done. I'm drowning. And strangely enough, I didn't really

(06:23):
have any fear. As far as I remember. It was
just this rich, deep peace. It's a little bit of surprise, like, oh,
it's peaceful when you die. But other than that little
thought there, I was just a rich piece and kind
of cut to next scene. That's how it is in
my memory. I think the guide must have pulled me out.
But I was rafting the rest of the day pretty

(06:44):
much as normal, after I guess coughing up a few fish.
But then I started remembering spontaneously, kind of out of nowhere,
five ten, like many many dreams per day or per morning,
and started having lucid dreams. That'll be something interesting we
could talk about today, but dreams during which I knew

(07:05):
I was dreaming while I'm asleep, you know, conscious dreams.
Then started having clear visions of the future that came true,
like specific things, and so you know, my science training
was kind of put on the side Shelfare Okay, they
didn't tell me about this in physics class. I better
go explore it. So first person what I call a
subjective scientist for maybe seven years, exploring, recording dreams, trying stuff,

(07:31):
reading a little bit, and then I ended up. I
think you mentioned to Jacob there the Stanford University research,
which is world pioneering lucid dreaming research, which is nice.
I liked it because they brought together the science, my
kind of training in physics, and then the first person
exploration together and then a nutshell that's kind of it
returned to Canada started the Dreams Foundation to bring some

(07:53):
of the info, some of the principles, some of the research.
I guess all the benefits out to people because I
had a wish to kind of, I think, like you
a little bit help the audience, help others with what
I'd learned.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Now is it true and that you're also a filmmaker
and of so, and how did that kind of come about?

Speaker 4 (08:14):
Oh, interesting one, Jacob. Yeah, that's a little more recent.
I guess during the pandemic, like everybody was kind of like,
oh boy, looks like we've got some time off here.
And one morning I woke up with this powerful dream.
And this will give a little hint to the folks
of what I often kind of have in the back
of my mind this question. I'm giving it as a suggestion,

(08:35):
not just what does the dream mean, which is a
good question, it's not bad, But I kind of have
this running program or idea or belief that what does
a dream want? So this morning I want this. One
morning in about twenty nineteen, I guess I woke up
with this dream where I'm in the dark, or somebody
tells me, hey, if you go in that cave, there's

(08:56):
gonna be a big treasure for you. I was like, Okay,
let's check it out. It wasn't a lucid dreams. I
was just following the guidance. I went down in the
cave and I saw that kind of like murky dark waters.
Couldn't see too much, but there was something like a
bottle in the water in the bottom of the cave,
like a puddle, like this's a little lake. And then

(09:17):
on the back, kind of vaguely in a shelf, I
saw something else, maybe another bottle. I didn't feel like
getting wet and cold, and who knew what was in
the water, So I reached to the back of the
cave and pulled this bottle and kind of woke up.
And you know how we wake up, we don't still
have the bottle in our hand there, But I kind
of pondered the dream, how does a bottle become a treasure?

(09:38):
Because that's all I saw on the cave. And I
remember that the type of bottle I'd seen in the dream,
which was pretty specific shape, was this whiskey bottle. And
that year, I guess right, when COVID hit her a
few months before at Christmas, i'd given out a bunch
of gifts with little LEDs kind of made this art project,
put them inside bottles and lit them up, and they

(09:59):
were kind of these on Christmas gifts. And one of
the bottles was exactly like from the dream. So I
went and looked it up because I hadn't given that
one away, and pulled it out and said, oh, okay, whiskey.
I didn't know it was whiskey, but in the dream
I did. So I looked up the I guess the
markings and the number on the bottle, and turns out
it was whiskey. I was like, okay, so there's something accurate.

(10:19):
I guess that's the bottle from the dream. And I
was just walking around with the bottle, going, how could
this be a treasure? Here's that principle again? What does
this dream want? I'm pondering the dream, I'm acting a
little bit on it. I'm inquiring. And all of a sudden,
because I had a prism that I had for many
years that throws a rainbow in the wall, I walked
in front of the I guess what do you call it?

(10:41):
The prism or the light getting broken up into colors,
and it made this amazing new morphed shape on the wall.
Long story short here it kind of cut too many bottles,
many glassware and other explorations. Later, as my kind of
creative photographer, I ended up making the film Treasure in
a Bottle and it ended up so far I think,
being in about thirty thirty five festivals, winning some awards,

(11:04):
going around in television. And it was just a spontaneous
treasure given in a dream that kind of shifted my
career a little bit to filmmaking. So that's how I
got start. You ever do any films, Jacob, or have
you done other than just audio? Oh?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
I just do video on OHI I just do a
few videos on YouTube with the podcast.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
That's about it?

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Okay, so far right?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, so far? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
In case your dream guides you, hey, I'll get creative.
Started doing some like artistic stuff for other types of
montages or something.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Now I want to kind of ask another question that
came to my mind here. If we have a dream
about something like an object or whatever, can that kind
of be like get reality sometimes after we wake up,
can we sometimes see an object and that we've seen
in a dream?

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah? Does what we've seen that dream show up and
are working life can also be a person, could be
an object, an animal, or something like that. Sure, and
that can happen. That could be sort of what we
A normal version that I think probably many of the
viewers have had is what we call in science day residue.
In other words, something we dreamt of before shows up

(12:17):
in our dream, which is pretty common usually the day of,
and interestingly enough, not necessarily the three, four or five
days before, but if we did something in our life
maybe six to five to seven days before, about six days,
it shows up more often in our dreams, or some
kind of weak lag, so a week long lag. But anyways,

(12:38):
I think you're probably talking about, can something we dream
show up after the dream that we didn't see? Yeah,
so I mentioned the one before because time is way
more fluid in dreams, so it's a little more believable
that's something we sort of experienced, or someone we met
who we rarely meet showed up in our dream a
week later. It's a little less believable that somebody that
we dreamt of we haven't seen any age, or we

(13:00):
never saw, or an object or something shows up later.
And you could say in a way that my bottle
dream was actually both of those. In a way. I
knew about the bottle because I made a Christmas gift
with it, but I didn't know that it could turn
into this interesting tool to more for rainbows, into all
these shapes and turn into like a film and everything.

(13:21):
So it kind of showed up both. But I think
you maybe mean something that we've never seen, well, just
to get reader's interests sparked here. And I don't think
it's necessarily something that everybody's going to have by tomorrow.
But there have been about five or six lotteries that
I've tracked, one by numbers that the person dreamt, oh wow, interesting. Uh.

(13:41):
Sometimes bigger prize is one person I think twenty six million. Wow.
Oh sorry, Actually I'm not sure the million, the lot
of my lot of what do you call the total amount?
But the twenty six was actually the little hint there.
So it's not always an easy give. There's usually a
little bit of sleuthe thing or I guess exploration or

(14:02):
fear busting work to do before you can kind of
make some breakthroughs like that. And the little kind of
hint here was that that person dreamt twenty six years
before the winning numbers and then they just said, Okay,
there's my numbers. They just played them since then because
I think one of their parents, their mom gave them
these numbers in the dream. So yeah, it took twenty
six years, but still, you know the backlog of pay

(14:24):
for twenty six years. If you won like fifty million,
isn't too bad. That's two million a year, so it
paid off, and other times it's a little nearer. I
think just this summer. Last summer, there was somebody last
summer who I think won seventy million because the numbers
they dreamt a month or two before and they knew
they would win, which is interesting. So there's a little
hint of numbers objects people. Have you ever had somebody

(14:47):
that you haven't seen a long time, you dreamt and
maybe you call them or they call you like in
a short time, like that day or that week.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, I've never had nothing like that happen, but I've
had like a dreams of like a of someone in
the family that I know come to come to visit
me in a dream. Okay, And obviously those people that
come visiting in a dream has since passed away.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
Okay, Yeah, well that's not obvious. Sometimes living people can come,
but you some of the deceased have come, and did
they bring like a guidance, a message, or any kind
of thing.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, the only one that I know of anyways, it
was after my grandma passed away, which was in twenty
twenty one, oh to how to dream about her, maybe
a month or so after she died. After came in
a dream and said I love you, and that was it,
which is.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Not a terrible message, by the way, And there's kind
of a hidden message there, you know, I'm okay wherever
I am now, I'm in a good I'm in good shape.
Don't worry. I might have looked bad at the end,
you know, but that's kind of what did you find
it comforting or at least some peace? Yeah, So that's
usually one of the messages that just in the fact

(15:59):
that the person's being or soul or whatever you want
to say, consciousness comes. It has that message. But sometimes
they also give specific testable like things you can actually
check in waking life, which help us trust a little bit.
So they may bring a deeper trust that, hey, existence
continues outside of life. But that's a great story. So

(16:19):
one of the benefits of I guess crossing over or
bringing information from the other side is trust. That is
kind of the life is but a stage here, as
Shakepeare says, we're all in the play, so not to
worry a death. I think that could be a message there.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Now you have a new dream and sparredavention out. Can
you show a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Oh great?

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah, Well I have a few inventions that I've worked
on which have been affected by dreams. But that movie
I just mentioned, Treasure in a Bottle. People can check
it out on my YouTube channel if they want to
look up the movie and it tells all about the
bottle and the dreams, and it shows all the images.
It also has dream inspired music, so little clips I

(17:04):
think we're going to maybe hear one or two today,
but actual music that I dream. So that's a whole segue,
but just to go through the invention. So after the movie,
I kind of was like wowed by some of these
shapes and patterns of all the prisms. You can see
them if you check it out, And I was like,
how could I really amplify this and also turn it
into something other than just like a link that people

(17:26):
could have in their house and that I could have
in my house, so like more of a physical object.
So here's the kind of maybe later answer to your question,
you ever dreamt of an object? Now, I didn't dream
of this object exactly, but the dream inspired that I
created or invented the object. And it's called the Rainbow Wizard.
So we don't have a picture here, I guess, but

(17:48):
it's just like a little plate with a tripod on
it and it is patent pending here that has a
very special film called the diffraction grating and it takes
straight direct sunlight and turns it into like mind blowing
rainbows all over the ceiling, all over the wall, over
the curtains, all over your friends, family or cat whatever.

(18:10):
But very surprising for no batteries, no LEDs. To check
it out at Rainbow Wizard two w's in the middle
there Rainbow Wizard dot net if you want to see it,
and it's available on Amazon dot CA and soon to
be other places too. So there's an invention. Thanks for
mentioning it, because that was a fun one.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Now you also have a training program as well well.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
I often do trainings. Many times I have individual clients,
I guess, coaching guidance counseling. I've worked with suicidal people
and that kind of thing too, But sometimes it's just
learning new skills lucid dreaming. So as a group, sometimes
we have team journeys, that's what I say team adventures,
and people can check out applied to Dreaming dot Com.

(18:55):
Two d's in the middle applied dreaming dot Com and
that talks all about the Team adventures usually have four
to seven, four to eight people all together and we
we learn principles, we feed off each other, lots of synchronicities,
dreams of each other, for each other, precognitive, and then
we learn skills that everybody gets to keep forever. Because
you know, Jacob, I'm more of like a fisher like

(19:17):
selling fishing rods. I'm a fisherman myself, like grabbing the
dreams and learning the different tackle and the fishing rod.
But I like to sort of show people, hey, this
is how you fish. Maybe here's some equipment, here's some tools,
but here's you know where you go and you go
do it. I'm not just going to sell you fish
or do your dream analysis for your whole life. So

(19:37):
I'd rather teach people, and that's how we do it.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
In the classes now, and what is this phenomenon that
people refer to has raw shadow? And why is it
so important?

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Oh? Our shadow? Have you ever heard that phrase?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I don't think I have. I don't think.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Okay, that's good. So maybe some of the listeners haven't either,
Some probably have the psyche the shadow. The phrase I
think was original coined by Carl Jung. He probably heard
of that gent and he used that word to kind
of represent the darker parts of us, the things we
don't like about ourselves, or the hidden parts or pain.

(20:12):
Not necessarily demonic or like dark stuff like that. But
just let's say when we were childhood and maybe age
four three four, we were writing and scribbling on the wall.
I'm not making a nice little crayon pattern, and mom
came said, don't do that on the wall, and maybe
a little bit of our creativity and like spontaneity got
cut off at that moment, like oh nah, that's bad,

(20:34):
and we do you know, we didn't have the intellect
to say, Okay, it's not the it's not the scribbling
or the drawing that's the problem. It's on the wall
in front of everyone. So as a kid, we just
cut off a little bit and over the years different
pains even like accidents like car accidents rather that can
help part of us go unconscious. We've heard of trauma
from veterans, et cetera, and that sort of conglomerate. It

(20:56):
becomes our shadow. And the interesting thing about the shadow
is it holds it one of our emotional life for us,
our energy. So we don't want to just push it
under the rug, leave it in the dark, so to speak.
The shadow we want to kind of shed some light,
which means, you know, symbolically and also psychologically truthfully said,
some light, which means looking at, exploring, put some conscious

(21:17):
attention on whatever. Kind of like dark shadowy things come up,
like maybe a scary dream, especially recurring dreams, that's usually
a pretty good indication there's something in her shadow that
wants to come back into our life. You ever had
a recurring dream that's not so pleasant? Jacob Uh, Yeah,
actually I have.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I've had a dream, of course what happened many times,
haven't had it so often, but I have this dream
that would happen every so often of me like fought
into the ground over and over almost.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Okay, And was it kind of scary, fearful?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was awesome.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
You might be surprised. That's a pretty common one. So
before I get to the explanation that sort of of
what are right, how about the how or whatever? How
could we transform it? So I'm going to ask you
a question that might spark you can see. What would
you say is the difference in a dream, for now,
between falling like your dream hitting ground and then flying
because in both cases you're in the air there's nothing

(22:17):
around you. But what would be the difference you ever
had a flying dream?

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I've never had a flying dream.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Now, okay, and do you think you might want to?

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Sure, yeah, okay, Well, most people report, I think ninety
ninety five percent report flying dreams are free, uplifting light.
And your falling dreams and most people's falling dreams not
one hundred percent, but are like scary, I hit the
bot just before hitting button and we wake up, you know,
gasp for breath, something like that. So the main difference
there is, well, well there's two there, but one is

(22:47):
the feeling we wake up with, or the feeling we
have during the dream, usually much more pleasant when it's
falling flying In this case, the kind of tool would
be recognition. Recognition the word it means rethink it. Okay,
wait a minute. If I'm in a dream and I'm falling,
if I can recognize I'm falling in a dream, then

(23:07):
really I'm safe. You know. Worst case scenario, I can
like Jennifer love Hewett, the ghost Whisperer from a TV
show a while ago. She says, yeah, I would have
those and then I would fall down after because I
changed the ending. I imagined a new ending. I'd bounce
on the clouds and then float down to the earth,
and I didn't have the fear anymore. So there's this
an interesting kind of shift of idea. And then maybe

(23:28):
setting an intention the next time I have a scary
let's say, falling dream or a chase dream. Many of
your listeners will have chase dreams pursuit. Or the next
time I have my teeth falling out that's another big one.
Or the next time that I see somebody and that
I'm really scared because they're sort of an attacker. These
are common themes. Or next time my car is out

(23:50):
of controls another recurring theme. I'm gonna imagine before I sleep,
a new ending, and especially a new feeling I'm going
to breathe in like peace, whatever you want. Joy. Sometimes
we do need to grieve, So if it's somebody passing,
you might feel sadness and then joy after. But if
you imagine before sleep, you set like a neural pathway,

(24:12):
you set an intention, and you'll find to start to
find that the recurring dream stops, and you might for you,
we might start having the flying dream and like New Worlds.
Here's an interesting little synchronicity for you. I had a
lucid dream this morning, a dream during which I knew
I was dreaming, and my body's prone sort of horizontal,
but I'm just floating. At first thought, oh no, I'm

(24:34):
gonna fall. But then this morning I went, okay, wait
a minute, if it's a dream, I'm safe. Why would
I be nervous. I don't have to go flying through
the wall at a hundred miles SNAr, which I've done before.
But maybe I tuned into our little discussion in the
following dream today and I kind of took it into
floating peacefully enjoying it. So would be open to trying that,

(24:56):
like just before sleep, imagining some different ending. Oh yeah,
and you have to report results because we're all sort
of subjective scientists. I don't know for sure that that
will work for you. I've seen a lot of people
have success. But maybe you'll run into like telephone wires
if you try flying, which some people do, or they
run into hydro wires. And there's another kind of okay,

(25:16):
a little bit less fear, but still a little block.
So you know, you imagine a new ending to that,
and we could say, okay, well, these things are just dreams, right,
it's not too practical. But the shadow actually shows up
in our waking life as really unpleasant events if we
don't heal or face it. What do you mean unpleasant events, Well,
let's say for many years we don't sort of phase,
demonic or very scary dreams, it might show up in

(25:39):
our bodies cancer. Actual statistical research shows that, you know,
repress really bad nightmares show up as body sickness or
even cancer. Or maybe it'll just be a blowout in
one of our relationships of some fear that we didn't address.
Or maybe the lightness, the freedom from stress, you know,
the flying feeling you won't have as much in your life.

(25:59):
So it becomes pretty practical pretty fast when we start
to face it and shift the emotions, and then our
waking life follows. Suit sounds good on paper. I'm not
trying though.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, now, Craig, what's the calls because I've had this
as well. Oh, I'll be laying in bed kind of
half awake, half asleep, and all of a sudden, Oh,
your body kind of jerks. Oh yeah, yeah, what's the
cause of that?

Speaker 4 (26:27):
Well, not because you're a jerk, that's for sure, and
none of the listeners are. But usually, this is my
guess from what I've seen, doesn't have to I don't
have to be right by the way, But does that
happen to you more as you're falling asleep.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
It happens every once in a while. It doesn't happen
all the time, but it happens every once in the
blue moon.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
But usually more towards like when you're falling asleep at
the start of your night. Yeah, yeah, okay, that's my
guess because it helps to real realize sort of when
it's happening. Because there's physiology that follows this too. You know.
You could say, oh, these just psychology things all in
my mind. Well, there's the mind body connection. So some
of the stuff's in our bodies. So whatever happens emotionally

(27:10):
or mentally or maybe psychically spiritually will affect our bodies.
So if we have like a jump like that, something
else happened, but the body responded just simply put. You know,
I won't go into all the details. I could give
a little bit more scientific depth if you want, but
you could just say, quickly, your consciousness, you kind of
let's say, your spirit, your mind, however you want to

(27:30):
think of it, the part of you that's kind of
listening now, but in dreams goes and explores other worlds.
It sometimes returns back to the body kind of quickly
as a surprise, and the body gets a little bit
of a joke. So you kind of oh, and you
wake up for a second one, Oh that was weird.
It might have been a scary dream like the falling flying.
So my guess is, if you kind of try that

(27:51):
little home experiment I suggested you, imagine like, okay, the
falling dream. Hey, you know what, I'm going to fall
through the earth. I'm going to go into the soil
through the rock. Because it's a dream. I can try anything.
By the way, I've gone through rocks and earths, but
it's very safe. But if you imagine it with a
positive feeling before sleep, you might actually remove some of

(28:12):
the little jerks because it's sort of that flying following
fear of like, oh my gosh, what if I don't
make it back, what if I fall? What if I sow?
Like a fear, And then you know, you can turn
those little jerk moments into really positive things, like what
if you slowly return to the body and then slowly
left without losing consciousness. You could have a full blown

(28:33):
lucid dream. You could just sort of explore your current
reality usually like the bedroom or something your house, or
you could actually start to explore other levels, other worlds,
meet people, all these things, but consciously, in other words,
very clear memory. In real time you can make choices.
That's what lucid dreaming is. And those little before sleep

(28:53):
jerks and sometimes sleep paralysis. You ever had that Jacob
wake up and your body's frozen. Oh no, I haven't, No, Okay,
about a third of the listeners experienced that, especially during
high school and we were doing like all nighters for exams.
But they'll wake up and the little switch in our
brain and the ponds and the brain stem hasn't quite
turned on yet. That kind of activates the muscles or

(29:15):
allows the muscles to work. But the consciousness, our mind
is there and it says, oh my god, I'm awake,
but I can't but what's going on? And offense lips
to fear quickly, and that's called sleep proalysis. But what
if we use that moment positively, like oh wait a minute,
rethink it, you know, we cognize. What if I've never
been as relaxed as now, I can't even move my
muscles because I haven't fully woken up yet. What if

(29:37):
I use that as a springboard, a doorway for a
lucid dream and I return back to that dreamscape but consciously.
And some people have had success. So I explore people
anytime you see a fear, you know, not something like obvious,
like you don't go jumping out a third story window
and say, yeah, I face my fear. No, but maybe
you check your hands or my hands like full normal

(29:58):
five fingers fingers for five or ten seconds, and like
this morning in a dream, I actually had no fingers.
I was like, oh, of course, I'm dreaming. And it
helps you face fears and you can kind of move
through these big lessons that we all get on life
here having more courage, moving past our safe boundaries, emotional boundaries,

(30:20):
sometimes physical boundaries, sometimes something scary from business finances, who knows,
but it'd help us move beyond our comfort zone into
our bigger self and dreams often like encourage us and
show us ways to do that. So in big summary version,
that's kind of our shadow and a little bit of
how to face it.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Now. Now, are there any risk? Okay, well let me
re ask that question. Are there risk and ignoring strong
vivid dreams like nightmares?

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, it sort of makes
sense to what we just said. If you think of
like the early warning system. You know, like on the
car you have an oil light right or in your
house you have like a smoke alarm. Most houses have
smoke alarms, and it goes babay baby, which isn't the
most pleasant thing during the middle of the night. You
don't want to really hear that sound because it probably

(31:10):
means something's bad, like your roommate or your husband got
up and like burnt the toast or whatever. But it
could mean something really serious. In this case, I'm making
an analogy but what if the warning light the kind
of smoke alarm of our psyche or of our shadow,
our deeper like health is nightmares, and especially if they're recurring,

(31:30):
and that's kind of like wake up with a nightmare.
I means you better look at this what does this
stream want? Remember that question and then start to like
explore maybe you know, do some training, maybe have a
counseling session or at least talk to a friend, get
some empathy for a painful past scenario. Often those fears
come from painful past scenarios traumas. But start to move

(31:54):
through it because it means that there's something out of
whack in the system, like the oil light on the
cars going off. Yeah, it's a pain, you gotta pay
fifty bucks for a check out whatever, But what if
you didn't check out, and like two hundred miles from now,
the whole engine melts it down, Then you'd be happy
that you did the check Same thing for like addressing
the nightmares while they're kind of still subtle. Otherwise it's

(32:15):
like I mentioned, it's really unfortunate they show up as
sickness or a ruined relationship or maybe worse, you know, health,
maybe financial problems, car out of control, car crashing. That's
often financial warnings are independence getting damaged. So be careful.
And i'd say I encourage you like I do in
my article. You can check it out on my website there,

(32:37):
Craigweb dot c so Out of Canada dot CA, Greg
Web with two b's. By the way, it says one
of the articles on the bottom says nightmares lucky you.
People say I don't want nightmares. What are you talking about?
I say, that's right, I don't want you to have nightmares.
But you do have like a smoke alarm in your house,
right yeah? Why because you want the warning if you

(32:57):
need the and so the nightmares come as a warning.
So I say, nightmares like you. And then I give
some techniques in there how to work with nightmares. So
you can check it out. Actually you can go directly
to nightmares dot info. There's a website just with that article.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Now, O precognitive dreams possible? And if so, what does
that mean about the destiny and time?

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Oh? Precognitions? Right?

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, yeah, Well, in a way.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Just to segue from what you had just asked, which
was a great question sort of about the shadowy and
the nightmares. Imagine if nightmares are sort of premonitions too,
which in a way they must be. If they're warning
of something that's coming, like sickness, problems with our relationships,
or financial problem, or any other worldly problem, then it's
kind of a precognition. So many nightmares are premonitions. Let

(33:43):
me give me an example from my book. Okay, so
this is a bit of a severe one here. Actually
I'll start with a lighter one that's more believable. We
can go to a really, really exciting example. But Diana Ross,
I imagine many of the listeners have seen there are
beautiful singer, one of the Supreme who's still singing good
for her congrats stand, and she had a kind of

(34:05):
recurring nightmare of cats digging their claws into her and
kind of like really pain unpleasant. Ah, waking up with that,
and at the same moment she shared the dream with
the other Supremes in the back of a car, I
think on a concert on the way to a concert.
I'm not sure. I think it might have been Chicago,
the next concert that we're aheaded to, But she'd had
the recurring dream for a while. But at the same

(34:27):
you know, the next sentence that came out of her
mouth was they always like send us around on these
tours without any break time, and we're so harried and
so like stressed out and everything. So I guess she's
pretty busy as a performer. And they have the next
day the next day, and they're running around and all
the fans. You have to so a lot going on,
but stressed and none of downtime. And there she was

(34:48):
on the stage at the next performance. I guess she
didn't get that insight or it was tough to follow.
Sometimes it's tougher to follow because the manager's pushing on you,
you have all the audience waiting, et cetera. And she
collapsed right on the stage in the middle of the
whole audience and everything. It was really sick for about
three weeks. Went to the hospital, which in a way
is kind of the message was enforced by So luckily

(35:12):
she didn't get anything too severe, like, you know, let's
not say death, but even like a long term damage.
She got a few weeks of relaxation and warning and distress.
But imagine if it's something worse we ignore for longer,
like a recurring nightmare for many years, then it can
become very very serious, you know, even like Leonard Skinner.
Do you want to hear a good one? This one's

(35:35):
from my book The Dreams Behind the Music. If people want,
they can check it out on Amazon. There's like two
hundred actual story artists and like different inspirations, but sometimes
warning dreams. So this one was Lenyard Skinner. Do you
know them the bank?

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (35:50):
I do, yeah, yeah, with your little accent there, the
Sutherly accent, I thought you might have guessed Lenyard Skinner there,
So I think from Alabama. So we Alabama, which actually
had a dream inspiration by the bassists that bum bum,
The whole bass riff came from a dream. But onto
the main story here is that the backup singer Jojo Billingsley,

(36:14):
she had this very very upsetting dream of the plane
crashing burning, you know, justmember really really unpleasant scene. But
she wasn't on tour. She was kind of, I guess
taking a break or whatever. So she was I guess
a month or two hiatus taking a break. Good. She
sounds like she learned the message of Diana Ross. But anyways,

(36:36):
I guess Ronnie Vanzanter that the team, the band team
called her up and said, hey, can you join us
tomorrow at our next concert because you know, we really
love your voice and we missed you. And she said,
I can't come. What are you talking about. I just
had this terrifying nightmare of like the plane crashing, burning
and like everybody like a bad shape, injured, some people dead,

(36:57):
and you know what, I really strongly encourage you guys,
like don't come, don't go on that plane, please please.
I think, like I never have these warnings, and I'm
pretty sure it was so vivid and clear, so you know,
whoever had called her kind of was freaked out a
little like, WHOA, I don't know, that's a bit unusual
to hear from her room when we just asked her
to come out. So the band was actually, I mean

(37:20):
give them a little credit that they actually met discussed
the dream and the guidance, like this is pretty weird.
You know. Jojo had this like super nightmare with specifics
about the crash, and some of the guys said, well,
that's weird because we know that the pilot has been
so it's not always the safest plane. So they discussed
to discuss it, and I guess long story short, they said, okay,

(37:41):
we'll take this flight because the audience is waiting, you know, tomorrow.
We'll take it as our last flight on this plane
with this pilot. So we'll listen to the guidance, but
you know, we still have to go. And two of
the guys in the band actually booked on another flight
on another plane, but eventually they convinced them. Sad story
is that that a dream came exactly true and the

(38:02):
lead singer, Ronnie van Zand was killed along with I
think five or six others. It's really really, really unpleasant,
and then many people injured, obviously most of the people
on the crew, and there's lots of other very interesting
synchronosities around that event. But you can find it and
all the other references in the book, and you'll see
that it really, really really pays to follow p recognitions,

(38:24):
not always literal like that one was literal, but even
if it's symbolic, it could turn literal later. So it's
a good idea to contemplate what can I do? Is
there something I could change? Could I heal something? Could
I help somebody? Maybe the dream is guidance about somebody
else who's in bad shape. I know of a dreamer
who dreamt of their sister who was suicidal, and they
had no idea, so they said, okay, well it doesn't

(38:48):
really hurt. The phone and check and see how she's
doing because we don't talk that often. So they phone
and checked and she was in super bad shape, really depressed,
and they guess from the dream she was suicidal. So
maybe they helped save her life by just making a
phone call.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Oh wow, Craig, before we go to the next question,
I want to play. Oh don't play one of your songs,
and then when we come back from the break and
we'll talk about it.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Sounds good, sounds good.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
All right, and we're gonna play the song. And when
we come back and we're talking about the song.

Speaker 5 (39:19):
Okay, there, I'm from well, okay, uther then my heart.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
You know I come. It's true.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
I come from dreams.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
I just like you do.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
And when I die, because it's gonna happen, please don't cry.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I real me.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
We'll be flying high. I've been in the sky or
hopefully somewhere like that, cuz life is.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Just one station on the dime. We're only here in school.

Speaker 5 (40:01):
For a while to learn some crazy lessons before the bell.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
But find up alive.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
My brand is really like I dream when when you
wake up, you'll know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
And when your eyes finally closed, I pray your heart
is opened.

Speaker 5 (40:25):
We all get to choose our attitude, dude, drop the
anger to griditude? How how we interpret why? I bet
you see the world is just descriptive reduction, a multiplayer
three games construction. And I hope you get to know

(40:48):
that the rectors, while you're still honest, big old stay
believe A life is.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Just one station on the drive.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
We're only here in school is short white.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
I hope that we all graduate in style. Got I
don't a lack of it is true, Lane, I got drunk,
and when you're awaken you'll know what I mean when
you remember. I hope you have loves to lave them out.

(41:25):
I've learned so much from my dear mentors, but maybe
more from my torm mentors.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
It's true.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
And tell me you do, because when it seems the
deal and me rejection, and I remember, it's just a projection.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Has since started hearing the hard.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
Relationships can be so dramatic and I don't thank God,
it's like me so pedantic, So please please forgive.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Me as I make my way back to my heart.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
You see get home.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
I would swim me atlantic.

Speaker 5 (42:14):
Mostly I've been running around frantic because I forget though
I hold you re be.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Life is just one station on the dial.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
We're only here in school a short while. And when
you exit, I home you a smile to Dad.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
I dun't a lot.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
My friend's truely like my dream. And when you're awaken
you'll know what I mean. Make sure to shed your
swan song before you.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Crook croak, all right, Craig, kay tale is about that
song that we just heard.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Did you like my dramatic ending to the song there?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah? Sure?

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Did?

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Have you ever heard a song where the singer dies
at the end?

Speaker 2 (43:13):
I have it? No, I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
That's a strange one to play right after the story
about Leonard Skinner. Interesting synchronousy there. Hopefully it's not precognition
from me in my life. But I'm just kind of
being joking in that song about hey not to have
any fear of death. The whole song I decided to
write in a different manner because I know the dreams

(43:36):
just come spontaneously every day. Many of them are kind
of playful. Sometimes they're little adventures. Yeah, I definitely get
some warning and nightmare dreams and like challenging dreams too,
but more often than not they kind of bring me
to a spontaneous, easy state, something to contemplate, maybe a
creative idea, like the rainbow Wizard we talked about. So
that was the vibe I wanted to put because often

(43:57):
for songwriting I had been like, let's get this perfect,
let's redo this, let's get all the arrangements. So a
little more intellectual, kind of analytical. I kind of shifted
to hey, whatever mode and hopefully that comes across into
singing and then the whole lyric. Every lyric in there
is all about life and dreams and how they can
inspire us and how to bring us free from the

(44:18):
fear of death. And if people want to check it out,
it's I think online is called life is just one
station on the dial.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Now, now I want to ask this question here, are
you afraid of dying? Because I know I've mentioned in
that song about dying and you said what was going
to happen anyways?

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Okay, well, I don't mind answering here, but sometimes I'd
like to be a mirror. So let me ask you also,
would you say you have like fear around bodily death.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, just a little bit, but it's not as
bad as it was before.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Oh what just out of interest and not analyzing you,
but what's for you? I said, it's a bit better.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah. Well, at one point I was scared of die
in I guess. But now but now you know which
I came to terms. It's part of.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Life, okay, sort of like there's this perfect cycle balance,
and you believe that you'll, you know, Jacob, or some
aspect of your larger being will exist after the body dies.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Well hope, so yeah, maybe maybe good.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Well even that belief, you know at first? Now my
answer at first for that question, I just used my
science sort of intellect and a rational logical mind. I said, okay,
let's see, how do I feel if I think it's dead, gone, nothing,
you know, zero. I didn't feel good. It feels like, boy,
this makes no sense, and this also makes life stressful,

(45:53):
et cetera, like any moment. So that didn't feel good
to kind of imagine that it's dead, dark, nothing, And
and I sort of said, okay, imagine there's something. I
don't know exactly what at that time, but let's say
I exist continue. Maybe there's like some positive thing if
I keep my mindset clear to Beaton's talk about like reincarnation,
maybe there's some kind of continuing journey. And that felt better.

(46:16):
So I thought logically at the start, well, what the heck,
I might as well choose whatever belief or idea I
want about afterlife, because my feeling now is more important.
If I'm dead and I don't know about it and
I'm gone zero black, nothing, I won't have to worry
about being wrong. So I might as well just choose
that there's something now and then later. And this is

(46:37):
where I encourage people. You know, I said a little
fun phrase before subjective scientists. By that, I mean, like
first person explorer, don't take people's words for it, don't
take my word for it. I mean you can take
it as kind of a doorway or a trust or
like a taxi to get somewhere, but still experience it yourself.
And that's what I did. I said, Okay, I don't

(46:58):
know about dying for sure, why not experiencing myself like
fully conscious kind of like I'm speaking with you here, Jacob,
but while my physical body is sleeping. In other words,
my eyes are closed, uh, and my senses are off
and maybe if I have that, it's pretty close to death.

(47:19):
And like I've had many lucid dreams where I actually
like go around with the bodies off there, sleeping, and
some dreams in which I've actually even died sort of
died and quote marks there. But during the dream I
kind of had like the Craig character frok, like the
song I joked about there and then whoever, the consciousness

(47:40):
me continued after that in the dream, so it kind
of gave a hint of what seems to happen. And
I figure, kind of like the story about Janadius, you
want to hear some little story about a.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Greek Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Sometimes the stories teach us better, And this is kind
of I think I knew this story, so maybe it
helped me trust. There was a physician, a doctor I
guess at the time in ancient Greece cartage named Janadius,
and he had a real terrible fear of dying death
and maybe that was what motivated him to become a physician.
He didn't want people to die, and he saw probably

(48:14):
lots of death and stuff, so he was terrified of it,
and I think he wrote Saint Augustine, who's sometimes a
famous or infamous depending on but anyways, he wrote him.
He says, I'm terrified of death. Any suggestions, and one
thing led to another. I'm not sure if Saint Augustine
answered him, but he got in the idea of I'm
going to just try an experiment here. I'm going to

(48:34):
actually sort of learn this myself, get an experience of it.
And probably he went to the dream healing temples. People
probably don't know here, but there's ancient temples. There's still
some that exists now. They're not active, most of them,
but that are called Abbaton's or a bed. They're called
abton a dream healing temple where you'd go you'd have

(48:55):
a dream and you'd face a fear or you'd get
a sickness healing with the Greek god Sclepios. So he said,
I'm going to try that and try to face my
fear went in. I guess, uh, I'm kind of expanding
a little bit here of what the actual report is,
but he wrote. He wrote that he said, on the
first night, I actually dreamt of this golden haired youth,
a super super beautiful young Jans who came and said,

(49:18):
come with me. Janati is you know, confident, and he
took me this beautiful city with all these spirals and
these beautiful people, golden shining. It's like super uplifting. I
woke up and in Craig's addition, he you know, he's
at the temple, and the temple priest says, wow, very exciting,
and Gene says, okay, so did I did I remove

(49:38):
my fear of death? And the temple priest probably says, well,
do you still feel afraid? He goes, yeah, I'm not sure,
but it seems like I had a positive dream. He says, well,
then stay another night. Sometimes it's not always a single installment,
you know, like there's there's TV shows that have multiple
episodes and streaming shows. So he said, okay, I'll stay,
I'll do another one. So so the next night, there

(50:01):
he is in his dream again, you know, he's sleeping
in his little bed. There all of a sudden, golden
haired youth, amazing city, and he heard this music playing
from the evening before the dream before, the Hymn of
the Blessed and the Holy. He called it just like
the most beautiful music he could imagine, and the youth said, hi, Janadius,

(50:24):
he says, hi, don't don't I know you from somewhere
sort of started recognizing, you know, because he wasn't loose
it or wasn't coming. You definitely know me from somewhere.
Where do you know me from? Kind of helping him,
I guess and he goes, I saw you. I saw
you in my dream last night, and the youth says

(50:45):
that is true, very good. Janaedis you did see me
in your dream? So where are we now? And Jennie says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
I'm in a dream again? Wow? How can I be awaken? Dream?
It was good question us. He goes, I have a
question for you if you're in a dream right now,
which it seems true, right, yes, yes, yes, So how

(51:06):
is your body? What's your physical body doing? He thought
about it for a second. Don't forget he's fully asleep here,
but he's in the dream conscious. He says, I guess
my body's lying prone like it normally does when you sleep.
And the youth says that's true. Jenatius is fully prone.
What about the eyes? And Janeta says, well, I imagine like
most times when people sleep, their eyes are closed. My

(51:28):
eyes must be closed. And he said, the eyes are
indeed closed. Yet Janadius, you see me, Yeah, I see
You're a beautiful, like a young, vibrant person. He says,
what about these spires and this beautiful city, gorgeous? And
what about the music, genius, that that stuff is filling
my whole soul, the hem and the blessed and the holy.

(51:51):
And he said, Janadius, harbor the fear no longer, because
as you die, and when you die exactly like this,
you will be engine just woke up from the dream.
But you know, a very different kind of dream, a
conscious dream. We call it a lucid dream. He said, whoa.
Now I've had an experience like outside my body or

(52:11):
some part of me that's while the body is turned off,
lying their eyes closed, that knows fully that it still exists.
Then I don't, And he wrote to Saint Augustine, I
don't have the fear of death anymore. It's amazing. A
dream shifted my entire fear. So I offer that story
as kind of a technique but also a really fun
tale for everybody.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Now, for people who's listed that don't know what a
lucid dream is can you give us some examples?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Yeah, well we did just share one, but we can
get some other interesting ones. And when people want to
kind of define the word, I say, don't worry about
too much what exactly lucid means, you know, keep a
loose ID. I forgive the bad word play there. But
in other words, your ID, your identity, your ID, it

(52:57):
can be a little bit lighter. We don't have to
be find ourselves or me as the skin encapsulated ego
here Craig with handspring. Who I am might be more
than just this physical body. So that's a good starting
place to how and then maybe who I am even
in waking moments shifts around quite a bit. If I'm daydreaming,

(53:18):
or if I get really angry, or if I'm connecting
romantically with somebody, I'm quite a different person. So what's
a big surprise if in a dream I could be
somebody else too? Okay, so some part of me dreams.
That's why I remember these experiences sometimes like mind blowing dreams.
Sometimes simple life stuff, you know, with dad or walking
around in the market or whatever. But how can I

(53:40):
connect these two parts of me? Because often they're disconnected.
We don't always have conscious dreams, right, we don't have
dreams during which we know we're dreaming. And to bridge
that gap to kind of, let's say, integrate between waking
and dreaming minds, there's this thing called lucidity. There's lots
of techniques. We can give a few of those, but
the idea is, what if we could merge our memory,

(54:00):
our logical thinking, and different aspects of our waking life
with our dream self. Merge our waking and dreaming minds.
That's what we call lucid dreaming. And if you do
that in the way I just described, it's not just
becoming aware in a dream. You'll actually be bringing your
dreaming self, your intuition, your magical thinking, your power to
create and shift, defense also bringing it more into your

(54:21):
waking life. So sort of more synchronistic living, what I
call lucid living. That's the core of the course title
that I offer. So like more magical living and dreaming
and conscious dreams, that's kind of what they are. A
good example, let's see, here's one of mine. So I
don't share always too many of my dreams, but in
this case, I was an early explorer lucid dreams. I

(54:41):
had had some already, and I was realizing, Wow, you
can have these amazing, amazing conscious experiences that are like
no real physical laws or rules apply. So in this case,
I said, I want to fly my intention before sleep,
I'd want to try an experiment to go as fast
as possible, whatever that is, because I've flown a bit,
but I to run into barrier of fear. What if
I go too fast and I don't wake up? I said,

(55:04):
I'm going to go for it. So in this dream,
I think I remember seeing a big head of lettuce
in this cup. Somebody gave me a cup of milk
and there was a head of lettuce. I was like,
what this is. I don't want to like a shit
a lettuce shake. And by the way, it was very
strange to have a cup of milk that's like about
like eight inches wide. So I was like, this is weird.

(55:24):
And that little kind of weirdness allowed me to kind
of use my intellect and say, wait a minute, maybe
this is a dream. So I checked my hand. Oh
my god, I forget what it was, but maybe seven
fingers and something like, oh yeah, sweet, it's the dream. Now,
what was my experiment. Sometimes the memory isn't there, so
it's not full blown, full blown, you know, like different
parts of our brain or on or off. But in

(55:45):
this case, memory was there, says, oh, yeah, I want
to try flying. So I took off kind of flying
and flying flying, and started accelerating. I was going to
go as fast as I can fast ever, go fast, possible, fast, fast, fast, fast,
made a mantra, and then I hit this thought. Because
I was speeding up quite a bit, you know, kind
of the whole scene was disappearing. I ran into what

(56:06):
I call a thought only in retrospect, but at the time,
like a really solid wall fear. If you go any
faster right now, that's a goodbye. You don't even wake
up and for a moment. But I'd had enough practice
up to that place of kind of running into little
fears and then facing them. It was a pretty big fear.
But I said, you know what, sometimes I'm just not

(56:27):
gonna like be limited by these things, and this is
one of those times, and I just said just give it.
Like I guess maybe in Star Trek, you know, when
Scotti or the engineer president the warp drive, I said,
just bring it, and you know, from that moment, I
did like take off it who knows what speed, But

(56:48):
there wasn't any real memory of what happened after that moment,
except it started slowing down. I guess the vibration or whatever.
My state was shifted a little bit. Still dreaming, I
kind of looked backwards, say, wow, what just how up
in there at super megaspeed? And I realized I had
been an electron inside an electronic circuit. I mean, in
waking life, that's the analogy. I was going the speed

(57:09):
of lights because that's the speed of electrons. But in
the dream, I guess it's the equivalent of whatever the
fastest fast is. And I woke up like exhilarated vibration
with energy. WHOA A cool story to tell. But here's
the interesting thing. It actually helped as kind of like
a mental emotional habit to like just face fear or
something big things, and it's a check. You know, I

(57:30):
don't throw out my judgment, but if there's no physical
risks or risk of like losing an important relationship or
a lot of money or something, I'll just step into
it and say I'm not going to be limited like
this anymore. I remember that electron dream and some of
the others where I face fears and they turned out
really well. Just bring it. So there's an example for you.
Have you had a dream during which you knew you

(57:50):
were dreaming, Jacob, even like a little bit you kind
of realized, oh, this is unusual.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Had just a little bit, Yeah, because it's.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Not an it's like an RPM needle, right, you can
start to realize, Like I see some of my students say, oh, wow,
there's a dream. If I was dreaming, then I could
fly and then they wake up, But that they had
that thought, it's usually a good first start, like the
RPM needles starting to go up. You wouldn't even have
thought that if you were dreaming, if you hadn't liked

(58:22):
So it can be something that takes like a few
days or weeks, sometimes a simple intention. Maybe you could
try this tonight after your little rehearsal of the falling
and flying, Jacob, you can say, I'm gonna totally realize
that I'm in a dream and maybe I'll fly and
meet my Well, who would be like your favorite person
to ever meet? Either dead or like? Oh boy, A

(58:44):
good question?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
You don't have to answer on the spot, but ponder
it just kind of like get a feeling of like
super joy, ah whatever, your wonder, whatever feeling would feel
really rich for you. And from that feeling, somebody will
probably pop up, or maybe a few people that's okay too,
or maybe some kind of group or a band or
a community and you can see or an animal, it

(59:13):
could be anything, or a sort of a mythical figure
you know who knows. And then I would say, before
sleep in your intention turning falling into flying like some
of that crazy Craig guys told me, imagine at the
end flying up to meet this person and just say, hey,
I don't know for sure if it's going to happen,
but you're setting a no pathway. You're setting an intention.

(59:34):
You're setting like thoughts in motion and dreams are very
closely allied with thoughts, so you're actually setting something and
the same feeling is what's important you like wonder, Oh
my god, I met my most amazing master who knows
all about marketing podcasts. He's a visionary and he knows
how to get the message and deeper messages out that
many more people. Maybe the person comes and gives you

(59:55):
a guidance in the dream. Why not?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
No, Well, what are some prodigal ways that dreams can
help the live and and the dying around death?

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Ah? Yeah, so this big, this big dream shift over
from the dream of life. Well, we did mention a
couple We sort of talked about nightmares as being very
helpful to sometimes avoid sickness which could lead to death.
So that can be helpful. I mean, it's pretty helpful
if we're avoiding death, watch those recurring nightmares. But there's

(01:00:28):
sometimes let's say, you know it's going to come to
all of us here physically, we're going to pass on.
Some fears like the Genadius one I shared before, can
help us bridge into more peace while we're living or
maybe even during the passing when we're ready to pass on,
we can have peace and trust. I think, like you did, Jacob,
a little bit, you have like more I guess you're

(01:00:49):
more at ease with it. Maybe not perfect yet, but
you're moving into like more trust, more peace. Right, So
dreams might bring that shift. You can start to experiment
with lucid dreamings. Wow, I'm fully just outside my body.
I guess, like Genius, maybe this is a bit like
what death would be starts to help a little bit.
Then we can have dreams that actually help us reach

(01:01:09):
contact the deceased, because in some form or another, let's say,
a consciousness somewhere out there, a soul, you know, a spirit,
whatever you want to call it. I do experience and
believe that all things that have ever existed still exist
on subtler levels like dreams. So why not meet somebody,
maybe a loved one. That's very nice. If we want

(01:01:32):
to connect with somebody who died, or maybe get some
guidance so the death the deceased can come and bring
insights to us in waking life, that's a pretty good
a pretty good way to help us. Why not gain
an insight? I think Jimmy Hendrix an example from my book.
There's a whole chapter about this help from the deceased

(01:01:54):
in my book The Dreams Behind Music. Jimmy Hendrix comes
and he teaches guitar skills like electric guitar, super riffs
and things, two different waking artists from the other side.
Pretty cool way to learn, like really advanced guitars. You know.
Stevie Rayvaughan is one of those guitars. He passed on now.
But when he was still alive. His wife confirmed this dream.

(01:02:16):
She goes, yeah, it was really weird. He was lying
in bed and he had his finger out strategy was
doing this crazy moves like he sometimes does. So I
guess his physical body was acting out the dream a
little bit. And his face was all bunched up when
he's like doing riffs. So maybe he's practicing in his sleep.
And he woke up and said, hey, yeah, yeah, Stevie Ravon,
he said, Jimmy Hendrix came and he taught me these

(01:02:38):
secret guitar chord changes that nobody knew other than him.
Whatever that is, I don't know exactly what it was,
but sort of skills that we can learn and then
maybe more shamanic. This happens in First Nation tribes or
people who developed some of these skills. I have a
close friend Martha from Toronto who does this beautiful, beautiful

(01:03:00):
woman and she goes on the journey of helping people transition.
In other words, you can kind of stay with the
physical person, but she can also like with her dad,
for example, she sort of followed him right to death's
door when he had finally let his last breath goes.
She stayed with him a little bit on the other side,
and then he said, hey, you know, I gotta travel

(01:03:20):
farther beyond the veil, and he sort of pushed her
back into waking life from the little vision. Maybe you
can call it a daydream, but it's a little deeper,
like a meditation. But she helped him sort of like
move to the other side, just with accompaniment, so sort
of like a dreamy skill. Another nurse example, and this
is all in my Dreams and Dying CD if you

(01:03:41):
want to check it out, that's online available. Dreams and
Dying the benefits for the living and the dying. But
a nurse has had a patient who was in komatos
state I guess they call it coma for many months
and she goes, wow, I don't know if there's any
way I could help this person. Then somebody had taught
her dreamings, so she said she went in quietly, kind

(01:04:03):
of tried to have an intention to meet this soul,
meet the being of this person who's lying here still
sort of alive, but they haven't been awake for a
long time. And the soul came right away and says, wow,
where'd they all go? And she said, whoa, whoa? Whoa,
slow down? Who who are you talking about? Because my family,
they didn't come to see me in like the longest time.

(01:04:23):
They all abandoned me. Don't forget this is the consciousness
of the person because their body is still lying there
in the hospital bit and she's in her little journey.
She goes, Okay, well, no problem. Maybe I'll tell them.
I'll tell them to comera hoo hoo. So the I
guess the person in the coma or the soul of
the person in the coma deceased almost deceased, came and
said I'd like to see so and so and so

(01:04:43):
and so, and I guess you didn't make up a
list exactly, but she remembered the main ones and she
left the family, you know, waking up or coming out
of the little journey, she said, wow, called the family
or email whoever and said, come see them. They're they're
not crossing over, or maybe they're they really want to
see you, and you don't think maybe physically nothing's happening
because they've been lying there for months, but they know

(01:05:05):
that you're there or not. So the family came, said prayers,
blessings and lists, some candles, maybe brought flowers, whatever they did,
and then within about a day of that all the visits,
the person passed, which is kind of weird after months
of lying there. Right, So it's just a subjective story.
We have to trust the nurse and we have to
trust that it wasn't just a random occurrence the next day.

(01:05:29):
But when you start to see statistics, my scientist's mind says, okay,
let's say ninety to one hundred to one hundred and
twenty days a person was lying there, and then the
next day, after the visits which came from the dream guidance,
the person passed on. It seems like they were at peace.
There's something there. There's a way that maybe dream journeying
can help, and maybe it's fairly practical if we know

(01:05:51):
what we're doing. It's like a skill that many, not
too many of us in our culture are taught in
other cultures. This is pretty common now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
And which creative dreamers would you say have had the
largest influence.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
On the world. That's a good one. Creative dreamers. Well,
I think we're all creative, so people who connect with
dreams can be even more creative. Like Sting said, was
one of the big ones who's had a lot of
effect on the world, says, any artist who doesn't take
advantage of their dreams for creative insight is throwing away
at least half their talent. Now from somebody who's really

(01:06:27):
made his mark in the world with the Police and
lots of his solo albums and with his different environmental
efforts and things, that's saying a lot. You know. How
about every breath you take? You know, best song Grammy
came from a dream walking on the Moon giants deep
saw what do you Take? Walking on the Moon? Inspired
Baseline inspired by a dream, and many of his other music.

(01:06:50):
So he's quite a shamanic dreamer, he says, Yeah, the
shamanic art of songwriting. Why not go into a trance
or listen, or get into the stage or in an
actual sleep, stay get inside. So here's one another folks
that we know woke up with this tune. Have you
ever heard this tune? Jacob scrambled eggs, Oh my baby,
how I love your legs? I don't think so, And

(01:07:14):
neither had the person waking up with this little melody
and these lyrics, and he said, wow, but it sounds
really familiar. I wonder if I had nicked this tune
from somebody. I wonder if I stole it. I give
you a hinter or the word nicked. So he's checked
with the other people. He checked with I guess the
band because he's a musician. He checked with his manager,

(01:07:34):
give you a little hint here, George Martin, and he said,
do you guys recognize this because I think I nicked it,
but I dreamt it this morning scrambled eggs, Oh my baby,
how I love your legs? And they said no, I
never heard it before, but you're gonna have to change
the lyrics. It's weird too. So he pondered for a
while and John Lennon actually said that he did dream
the title later it was Sir McCartney, and he had

(01:07:57):
another dream perhaps where he dreamt yes today, oh My
Trouble Seemed So far away, which became a number one
hit for like eighteen weeks. But just think of the
transformative power of dreams. The Beatles said, whoa, we don't
really do ballads or that kind of slow set. They
call it sort of sappy song at that time, and
he said, well, I don't know. I dreamt it. It

(01:08:18):
feels really strong. I want to record it. So we
went with the studio with George Martin and they added
in strings and they made it more a way different
sound than the Baby Wanta Dry Mac you know, the
Beatles song before. So it was just Paul and then
I think at the and George Harrison came and added
a little bit, but it was kind of a whole
new sound. So the Beatles said, well, it's Paul's song,

(01:08:40):
and then it was a number one hit for eighteen
weeks and got like all those worldwide t oh yeah,
a great Beatles song, and so they kind of owned it.
But just think of the transformative power that even the
people who normally would write the music were kind of
a little bit. They said, it's way different than what
we normally do. So it has a transforming power and
the different Beatles music in other realms. James Cameron, you're

(01:09:04):
familiar with Titanic Avatar. Probably have seen some of these movies, right, Yeah,
So James, who is I guess a connection to mine.
I met him and spoke to him about this. I
had the good fortune to learn that his first breakout movie, Titanic,
came from a nightmare as an artist. As a creative,
he used a really upsetting kind of fevers dream, just

(01:09:25):
of a chrome skelettal figure rising out of a fire,
you know, coming from the future back to the reality.
He said, whoa, I freaked there, you know, living daylights
out of me and the dream. So maybe that would
have the same emotional impact on viewers. And he turned
it into a short story and then a whole movie
called Terminator, which was his big breakout film that really

(01:09:46):
sort of put him on the map. And later on
he said, yeah, Avatar also, you know, the very first
Avatar inspired by two dreams, actually one of his. He
dreams of a bioluminescent river, a glowing forest, animals that
sort of had bioluminet since you know that kind of
light in the dark. And he says, it's so beautiful.
And I just made a sketch of it when I
woke up, because he's an artist too, and he said, yeah,

(01:10:08):
but it was based the movie was based on a
short story that I wrote from a dream of my
mom when I was younger. She said, oh, you know, James,
I had this really strange dream of all these tall
blue warrior people from an alien landscape. I don't know,
it was very weird. And so he thought that was cool.
He wrote a short story and one thing led to
another made a film, Number one film of all time.

(01:10:30):
Not bad for a dream. Three billion plus I think
maybe more than that four billion dollars from a dream.
And if we're going in terms of money, I don't
think it has to go to money. It could just
be like a personal dream for your children or your health.
But the biggest one I know of sort of dollar
account here, I bet you use it every day. I'm

(01:10:51):
talking about Google.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Google.

Speaker 4 (01:10:53):
Yeah, the company Google actually came from Larry Page. The
original CEO had a powerful dream that showed a new
way to make a better search engine. Download all the
links on the Internet and you'll be able to rank
searching better. And they called it page Rank because of
his name, you know, Larry Page. But he said, yeah,
the whole company, I mean the seed kind of the
DNA the original thought, because he was doing a Standford

(01:11:16):
thesis was inspired directly one hundred percent by a dream,
and then lots of work in man hours and things later,
but still based on the same DNA. That's one of
the world's biggest companies at over three trillion. So not
bad for a dream. So not all dreams might have
that level of success, but what if they do, we
don't want to throw them away.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Now, how dreams affect do you in your work?

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
Yeah, well, you can see here a lot of my music.
Thanks for playing my song there, and there's a number
of others people and check it out on different things
like Apple Music and Spotify. And things came from songs,
or some of my songs rather came from dreams. Sometimes
I dream the music directly and kind of corporate exactly

(01:12:00):
as I hear it. Other times it's a little bit
artistically inspired, but I shifted a little bit. Often when
I teach some of the stories I share during talks,
interviews or write about, they're inspired directly from dreams. I said,
tell this one if you want. I can tell one
that my dreams told me. Tell as often as possible
after it could be a good wrapping up story. But

(01:12:21):
then also my inventions. I can tell you my health
has been helped almost weekly or at least monthly by dreams.
You know, sometimes I dream diet. By the way, a
little hint for listeners. If you dream of like an orange,
it might be symbolic of the color of something else,
but it might be as simple as have some oranges today.
You need some like natural vitamin see and you don't

(01:12:44):
always see a media repercussion. But maybe it won't catch
the cold, or maybe it'll help with something else, like
you're be more alert. I've had dreams of yoga posters,
so health is one that has helped me often. You
can see here, let's try to put in this little bracelet.
I had a powerful dream. I was staying in a
spiritual center, and all of a sudden, I had this

(01:13:05):
dream of a silver bracelet exactly like you see here
with a little emeralds trying to get in front of
the camera and the light actually shines through. So in
the dream, I had the silver bracelet left wrist, emerald
shining light through, and it was kind of beautiful. I
woke up and I told my partner, who was there
at the spiritual center with me. She says, that's so
weird because she's been there about fifteen years. She said,

(01:13:28):
the master of this place, the main teacher, actually encouraged
all of the students, like many years ago, not recently,
I think, but he encouraged them to get a bracelet,
a silver bracelet on the left wrist. With an emerald,
and I was like, whoa, that's strange because I had
no idea consciously right, and she never told me before
the dream. So I said, okay, well that sounds like

(01:13:51):
maybe a TNT dream. And by that I don't mean dynamite,
you know, TNT, I mean today, not tomorrow. Boom. I'm
going to act on this dream. What does want? I
was shortly I think the next month or so, I
was in India. I thought, hey, this is a great pace
to act on the dream because I could probably get
a little better price. So I was looking around after

(01:14:11):
this one into the jewel and said, you've got an emerald.
I'd like to make the silver bracelet. And he says, okay,
I got this let. He gave me this green stone,
excuse me. And so I kind of looked at it
and said, okay, great, and can you make the bracelet
and I have to have a light shining through it.
He says, yeah, yeah, yeah, come back tomorrow. Interestingly enough,

(01:14:32):
my dreams helped me. I'm giving the other example not
just the inspiration of the creative insight. But then that
night I had the first stone I paid quite a
bit for. I dreamt of the sky. I saw him
in my dream, and he's doing tricky stuff. There was
something questionable and like sort of like unple very unpleasant energy,
sort of like getting ripped off. Right. So waking up,

(01:14:55):
I hadn't set the appointment time with the first guy,
but I went to another jeweler and I just checked.
I don't know, I had this strange dream. Is this
a real emerald? I just kind of know my dreams
well enough. Don't forget. I'd been working with him for
many years. And I checked it out, which is a
good thing. Maybe it was honest, but I was just
checking it out, just a case. And he goes, no,

(01:15:16):
that's a It wasn't even as valuable as a parado.
It was some kind of like a little bit more
than a piece of green glass, but not much. And
he goes, yeah, that's pretty much worthless, sorry to tell you.
And I said, oh my god. So I went back
to the first jeweler. Now I had to face fear
because I'm going in India in this little town which
is it's called Menale, which is gonna be a lot
of drugs in there, and there's some scary characters around there.

(01:15:39):
And I saw this guy and said, you know, God
came in my dream. I made it up a little bit.
Spirit came in my dream and told me that you're
ripping off people, and you rip me off and I
want my money back for this emerald and it's not
an emerald. And he's like, whoa. You know, he never
sees the tourist come back. He usually just gets the money,
I guess, and he's sort of led, uh, okay, but

(01:16:00):
you'll have to go into that back room over there
because they have the money. I saw like smoke coming
out of the back room, you know, and there was
like two big guys and nobody around and nobody knows
where I am and tire India. I was like, so
this is where each person has to make their own choice.
But I kind of went into I live safe. I'm safe,
you know what. I'm going to follow my dream guidance

(01:16:22):
and just get my money back here. So I went
into the room and said, hi, guys, the guy in
the front, only give me back. I'm lifely As the
story to show you, I had to face a fear
and I was kind of nervous and there, you know,
but they said, oh okay, tryda looked around and just
gave me the money back, and I walked out quickly
and then walked over back to the second jeweler I
went to, and I said, yeah, you were right. They

(01:16:43):
agreed that it wasn't a real emerald, and thank you.
By the way, do you have emeralds and could you
make it? So I'm talking to him maybe two minutes
after he'd helped me, and he goes, I have some emeralds,
and I can think I can make it. We're talking
and I'm showing him the design with the light, the whole,
you know, and it turns out in all of India, Okay,
what's this one point or eight hundred million people or something?

(01:17:04):
He knows my cousin. Wow. So and I never would
have gone to that person without the dream, right. So
it's almost you could say, I'm in my subjective world.
Life gave me confirmation that you moved into a new
facing fear, a trust, you're connecting with your true family.
You know. He knew my cousin, but in some way,
and so he made this bracelet that I've kept on.

(01:17:26):
It's maybe a little bit of a commitment to my
spiritual growth path, but I also like it as a
reminder that you know it's good to face fears and
stand your ground and follow in her guidance, not blindly.
But if it's not too expensive or too risky, yeah,
take a little bit step outside your comfort zone. Make
the invention, or write the story, or make the music,

(01:17:46):
or hey, I'll just tell you a little hint that
might directly apply to you. Here. I have a radio
host who I was invited on before, and she often
dreams of which guests to invite on her show. Oh wow,
so there's a creative idea for you. Sometimes it's just
like the idea. So what if you dream like the
ultimate guest? It would sort of maybe grow the following

(01:18:07):
or bring the better message or something that could be fun.
So you can have that intention before sleep. That's called
dream incubation or intentional dreaming. And you don't have to
be fully locid. You don't have to be conscious in
the dream. If you are conscious in the dream, sure,
you just go and ask the question to the dream
and you'll get an answer. You can ask it to
the background intelligence of the dream. But if you have

(01:18:29):
the intention before sleep, you might dream on that topic.
And that's starting to become conscious a little bit of
the type of stuff you dream, so you can intend
dreams and you'll see what happens. Don't take my word
for it, try it as an experimenter. In fact, if
you have success or you dream something like that, let
me know because I always love the stories of people
who have success.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Now, before we wrap up the podcast, and where might
the listeners who are interested to learn more about things
we discussed and your work?

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
Okay, well, we gave a few websites, but I don't
mind sharing. That's usually the best way to reach me.
I don't give out my phone if you want to go.
The book has lots of great principles, many of the
principles I shared today, way more stories of fascinating artists.
And I'm sure all the listeners know somebody in there.
You know, from Taylor Swift to Cole Porter, you know,
back one hundred years ago to like I think ed Sharan,

(01:19:22):
to a lot of folks there have dreamt, major inspirations,
health dreams. That's the Dreams behind the Music. You can
go to Dreams behind the Music dot com, or you
can go directly to Amazon and look up the Dreams
behind the Music and you'll see the book which has
all that info and some techniques in the back too
for some of the things we talked about. If you're

(01:19:43):
interested in following me, you can check out Craigweb dot
c A, c r A, I, g w EBB dot
c A dot com and you can sort of end
up for the newsletter, updates, tips, events rather occasionally might
have but you can sometimes see. You can certainly search
around internet for podcasts like this amazing CWJ podcast my

(01:20:07):
initials by the way, did you know that? So? Yeah,
that's fun. So we got a link there, so Craigweb
dot c or if you want to, you know, follow
up a little more personally, you can write me and
I do private trainings coachings. People have amazing breakthroughs. It's
very fulfilling, fun filling too because we often have a
great time or sometimes not as recently as before, but

(01:20:29):
sometimes lead the team adventures online. So check out Applied
Dreaming two d's applied dreaming dot com and then any
other way, you know, just fall asleep and say, hey,
that crazy Craig. I'd like to connect in dreams and
see if anything he said today is accurate or not.
Maybe I'll come drop by and you think that's kind

(01:20:50):
of funny as a joke. But I can tell you
two people at least two, hopefully. I don't have too
much ego about it, but I find it interesting who
had never heard of, never knew me before, dreamed my name.
Actually one of them knew me, but from like ten
years before. They hadn't thought about me in years, but
one of them never heard of me. They wanted to
have some breakthroughs and learn about some things and dreams.

(01:21:12):
They dreamt the name and the website and looked me up,
and I was like wow. When they told me, I
was like, okay, I guess it sounds pretty clear. You know.
Let me. And then one of the dreamers from Ireland
actually had you know, kind of low budget, so because
she'd never heard of me and never knew anything about me,
but just followed her dream, found me to the website
and said I want to train with you. I worked

(01:21:35):
it out with her budget so that whatever it takes
for somebody to make the breakthroughs, we find a way.
But there's lots of great free articles and info all
over the internets at my site. There I mentioned that
you can check out that I can get you started
at least techniques, and even podcasts like this can can
offer insights a few tips and techniques. So I appreciate you, Jacob,

(01:21:55):
because you're actually helped me with my life mission too
by this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
Oh yea absolutely a mouth when this podcast goes up,
how the website would be down in the description below
as well.

Speaker 4 (01:22:06):
Oh, I appreciate that too, absolutely Yeah. Anybody who wants
to connect a little more find out free articles or
links to more personalized help, no.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Problem, absolutely all right, quit and all right, Craig, got
a good time talking to you. It was great kitchen
up with you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
You too well. Wish you and especially if you have
that following dream again and all the listeners really happy nightmares.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Oh but you're lucky by the way of I have
a flying dream. Oh watch, I'll let you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:35):
Know, please please please.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
I love hearing about the breakthroughs when people shift their
recurring dreams of something positive. Remember just falling asleep, A
little visualization with the new feeling, the new intention can
work wonders even that night.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Absolutely all right, Craig, it's been a nice chatting and
which I appreciate you coming on me too.

Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
It's been a pleasant recurring dream. Thanks Jacob, Thanks for
everybody listening.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Oh y absolute all right. That wraps up this week
of conversations with Jacob. Tune in next week for another
interview until until then, until then, God bless them. We'll
see you next week.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Conversations with Jacob Ep.83:The Dreams Behind The Music w/ Craig Webb

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Conversations with Jacob Ep.83:The Dreams Behind The Music w/ Craig Webb

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