Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Got any partners. You're listening to Conversations with Jacob, hosted
by my good friend Jacob Waller. Make sure to check
out the podcast where podcasts are available, and check out
the video version on YouTube. You can follow us on
social media. Facebook is Conversations with Jacob, Twitter is at
(00:50):
CWJ podcast, and you can visit our website Conversations with
Jacob podcast dot weebley dot com. Hey you got a
show idea, maybe a guest suggestion? Email I s at
Conversations with Jacob at gmail dot com. Now here's your host,
(01:12):
Jacob Waller.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And welcome back to another episode of Conversations with Jacob.
I'm your host, Jacob, of course, which I've been your
host ever since January twenty third, two thousand and twenty three.
The podcast is going on two years, by the way,
which is amazing. But today's episodes is a good one.
I know I say that every week, but it's true.
(01:37):
But first I to do well. First I to do
a few podcasts plugs. You can check out our Facebook
page Conversations with Jacob. Our website is Conversations with jacobpodcast
dot weeby dot com. On there you can find upcoming guests,
past guests, and you can basically it basically and you
can see who's coming on the podcast two or three
months from now, which is pretty interesting and pretty cool
(01:59):
as well. And also check out the podcast every Monday
at one pm which also make sure to make sure
to like, comment and subscribe to our YouTube channel. And
also if you like podcasts, check out Two Chairs No
Waiting is an Andy Griffin Show fan podcast hosted about
my good friend mister Ouda Newsom. If you like the
(02:20):
Andy Griffin Show, the podcast is for you. Speaking of
Ouda Newsom and here is out of Newsome to tell
you more about his podcasts.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Andy Barney, Opie Goober, Floyd de Barber. That's some of
the names from the Andy griff Show. Drop by two
Chairs No Waiting, the Andy griff Show fan podcast, and
we'll visit with some of those folks along with tribute
artists and fans and just all kinds of things related
to the Andy Griffith Show. I'm your host, Alan Newsom,
and you can find the show Two Chairs No Waiting
(02:49):
at two Chairsnowaiting dot com or on iTunes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And also if you also if you want to buy
some podcasts merchandise, which to our website Conversations with Jacob
podcast dot Leedy dot com. Go to the podcast merch
tab and you click on it. You can get buy
your t shirts, your mugs and so much more over there.
And also new things are being added about every day.
So with no further ado, my guest this week is
(03:17):
Jude Holland. I don't guess she's related to Adam Holland,
who was on the podcast back in July. But with
no further ado, and here is Jude, and welcome to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Hi, thank you, Jacob, glad to be.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Here absolutely Now, for people who don't know who you are,
can you give us a background?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Of course, I am a female abuse recovery coach. I'm
also a qualified therapist an author. I've wrote two books
around domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Now now and what is short story?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Okay, so I'm going back now eight years and basically,
my mom died quite suddenly. And when my mom died,
I found out two days after she died that actually
my long term partner was seeing somebody else when I
threw him out, and shortly after that went onto a
(04:19):
dating site. And you know, in dealing with my emotions,
I was drinking too much I was using alcohol as
a way of coping with my emotions, and by going
on to the dating site, I then met who then
went to be my ABUSA for the next six years.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Now, being in a beach relationship and what kind of
goes through your mind.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think the beginning of that relationship for me, what
I realized now looking back was that in a very
short period of time I moved in with him. So
within six months of actually meeting him, I moved in
with him and moved away from family and friends, gave
up I was in rented accommodation at the time, gave
up my accommodation and moved in with him. Now, looking
(05:11):
back over that relationship, I realize now that even right
at the beginning, I put myself in a very vulnerable position.
But of course everything was good in the relationship at
that point, so there was no reason to feel worried
in any way. But now when I look back, it
was definitely, you know, a yellow flag that he wanted
(05:33):
me to move in with him so quickly within that
period of time.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Now, did you feel like helpless or confused at the time?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Throughout the relationship, there was lots of different things that
was going on, and there was lots of confusion. He
would you know that cohersive control a lot of gas lighting,
so you know, there will be messages coming through on
his phone from all the women would be seeing other
women while I was at work as well, and then
(06:03):
he would be saying, you know that that wasn't the case,
and he was speaking to women on Facebook, and he
had me questioning myself of actually, you know, was this
really happening? You know, he did and you know, making
me believe that actually, maybe I was going mad, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Now, And what was your opinion or maybe your thoughts
when you found out he was talking to other women.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And for me at that time, I obviously being in
the relationship with an abuser destroys your self esteem. So
it was part of that process of destroying my self esteem,
the beginning of that process, I want to say. But
whenever I kind of questioned him about that, there was
always an excuse or it wasn't what I thought it was.
(06:53):
You know, he never in our relationship apologized for anything,
and he never said he was sorry, you know, And
when we argued, it was always my fault if I
hadn't said or done such a thing, this wouldn't happen,
and know, you wouldn't be in a place of being upset.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So basically on whatever something went wrong, and oh whenever
something went wrong and you was to blame for it,
that's right, yeah, so and so, and how did that
make you feel?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Like I said, I felt very much like you know,
I was questioning in my mind. There was a lot
of confusion, you know, and because at the very beginning
of the relationship, actually I'd isolated myself from family and friends,
I kind of played into that abusive relationship to some degree.
(07:45):
So it was very much that sense of, you know,
the tension would build and then there would be an
incident and then there'd be that reconciliation and calm in
the relationship, and then it would start all over again.
And after six months of moving in with my abuse
at he then lost his job and didn't actually work
(08:06):
for the next six years. So now, looking back, for
lots of people, financial abuses the first things that they
recognize in the relationship. So now looking back for me,
now I realize, you know, there were lots of different
things in our relationship, and towards the end of that relationship,
that relationship became physical, and there was a couple of
(08:29):
instances towards the end of that relationship which was then
put me in a position where I decided I had
to leave.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Now diffam many friends tried to convince you that you
had to lead, So they tried to convince you that
you had to leave their ladingship.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
None of my families or friends were aware of what
was going on. So at the time, Jacob, I was
in a very difficult position. So what I mean there
is I was working as a therapist in a sexual
assault un it and I was also training specials for
the police as well within that role. So I felt
(09:07):
really stuck, as in from a professional perspective, how do
I speak out and say to people this is what
is happening in my relationship. It felt really difficult from
a professional perspective that because here I was working with
the police with clients that were going through sexual abuse
(09:27):
in their relationships. And yet you know, as this relationship progressed,
I also was in a domestic abuse relationship.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Now and when did you decide that it was time
to get out of it?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There was two critical incidents for me, So we had
been out one Christmas and I had had. I actually
left in the March eight years ago. So we'd been
out one Christmas and I'd had quite a lot to drink,
and we were arguing. It was New Year, and we
were arguing over text messages that he'd received and messages
(10:04):
on Facebook coming home, and I was just so angry
at that time. And what I didn't realize at that time,
which I realized later, was that I was also pregnant
at that time, but I didn't realize that at the time.
So I was so angry, and obviously now it was
my hormones that were all over the place. So we
(10:26):
were arguing at the top of the stairs and at
which point he then strangled me at the top of
the stairs. So that was the first point for me.
And then the second point for me was when I
actually found out that I was pregnant. And for me,
that was you know, if I keep which was a
really critical, difficult decision for me, that if I keep
this child, this man, in some way, shape or form
(10:50):
will always be in my life and we'll always be
in this child's life. So I had two huge decisions
to make.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, do you think that most maybe you maybe you
know this, but do you think that the people that
kind of gets abusive towards their spouse, how it happens
later on or just happened quick in the relationship.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I think it can be different for lots of different people.
But generally there is an escalation of that abuse. So
it may be, you know, like I said that it
may start with financial abuse, emotional abuse. There may not
necessarily be physical abuse, but generally there will be an
escalation of that abuse.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And do you think most people that are abusive they
are usually found online like a dating sight.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I think it's really difficult to say. I think, you know,
we can meet someone who and be in a relationship
with them and everything be good at the beginning, you know,
and it can become more difficult because of different things
that happen in your life. I think you are more
vulnerable online. I think people have, you know, the opportunity
(12:08):
to hide things a lot more online where you know,
we have all of our judgments, if you like, in
front of us when we meet that person in that
person in person rather than online.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And do you think that they controw who that person
sees and be friends with.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Definitely, from from my perspective, there is very much that
sense of I you know that I hardly saw my
family in the six years that we were together, and actually,
when I did speak out, my sister was one of
the first people that I spoke out to. So generally,
that's one of the things that your family recognized, But
(12:46):
you don't necessarily recognize that you are actually being isolated
from family and friends.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So did you turn your experience around to help other
women in the same case.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
So for a period of time now, I've been a
therapist and coach for twenty five years, So for a
period of time now, I have been helping other women
who have exited an abusive relationship or may actually still
be in an abusive relationship, and you know, are recognizing
some of those signs. I've been doing that for a
(13:22):
period of time, and you know, being in an abusive relationship,
people feel that when you leave, everything is okay, and
actually that isn't the case. We have to rebuild our life,
we have to rebuild our friends group. You know, the
fact that we can say no, the fact that, you know,
reducing those feelings of isolation and shame and negative thoughts
(13:46):
about ourselves that have been so ingrained in alls, you know,
in that sense of fear of judgment from others that
we have to kind of rebuild ourselves and have that
compassionate voice towards ourselfs Now.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Oh, with someone that abuses on their spouse, what are
some of the guests lightned things that they usually do?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So there's lots of different things that you could look for.
So it may start off with something as simple as
your partner checks your phones and your phone and your emails.
It might be put downs, It might be you know
that they have an explosive temper, you know that, isolating
from family and friends, moving too fast in the relationship.
(14:31):
If there is an argument, they may never say that
they're sorry or they're never to blame, you know that
kind of and obviously that kind of escalation from emotional,
mental and physical abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Now and now and what are some of the red
flags kind of beauture relationship to? Like the red flags
happen after you start dating or can you notice it
kind of right away?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I think it's difficult because when you start to date somebody,
you see the good side of that person generally, so
they're showing you all the good traits they don't and
you know, there's very much a lot of that love
bombing going on, and similar to when you're in that
relationship with them. But I think it's difficult when you
first meet somebody that you're trusting yourself in that moment
(15:26):
that what you're seeing from that person is genuine and
it takes time to recognize that actually those behaviors may
take time to demonstrate themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, and you just brought up another question, and Kenny,
in my mind here and how when you were starting
public with your abuser always say like two different people
held in public and also at home.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I think that's the part that's really difficult. So just
a little bit of information about him. He was a
sales guy and everybody loved him. He had this charismatic
manner about him, so no one would have looked at
him and thought for one moment that he was a
completely different guy behind closed doors.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And do you think people are like that today and
where they can just flip a switch and they're two
different personalities, I think.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And there are other things that play a role. I
think things that are happening in your relationship can create
more you know, losing your job for instance, the fact
that alcohol may be involved in that, there can be
lots of different things that escalate things being not okay
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Now, is it the right thing to confront an abuser
or is it just you know, kind of can just
let them do what they need, because you know, take
kind of come back and hear a lot like if
you make them out, you know, take a come back
and slappy or do whatever. So is it the right
thing to confront them or just let them do their thing?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I think from my perspective, what happened for me is
that being in an abusive relationship affects your self esteem,
and in that rather than disagreeing with someone and saying
that they're wrong and saying no, what happens is that
you lose your voice. And in losing your voice actually
in that relationship, what that does at that time is
(17:29):
keep you safe?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Now now and how did you kind of build yourself
back up? How do you lift that relationship?
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Okay? So I at the time, I would say anyone
who's in the position at the moment that are in
a situation similar to what I was, I would ask
them to reach out to people that are around them. So,
whether that be an next door neighbor who may have
seen something, whether that be a family friend or a
(17:58):
member of the family, or to pick up a telephone
and speak to a helpline. And then but the one
thing that I do want to say is that leaving
your abuser is one of the most dangerous times for
a survivor, So thinking about organizing that before you do it,
So maybe packing a bag, making sure that you've got
(18:18):
important documents that you need, and maybe also opening up
your own personal bank account and also maybe a credit
card card in your name as well, so you're starting
to develop your independence.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Now, when somebody leaves an abuse of relationship, is there
a case that the abuser might try to follow them?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
There is yes, And from from my perspective, I had
from our police support here and I'm sure there be
something very similar where you are, Jacob. I have what
the class is a rape flag on my house, so
that if I ever got a telephone call, if I
ever rang the police, they would have been with me
(19:00):
in a very short period of time. So, but there
are things that you can do to keep you safe.
So it might be that you know, you would buy
another phone if you have a phone, so you're kind
of changing everything that you make sure that your location
is turned off on your phone as well. And I
would definitely say in lots of occasions to get a
(19:21):
new phone, because actually you can have things put on
your phone that you're not aware of and your abuse
that can track you that way.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Now, is there also a case whether the abuse room
might get a friend or somebody to kind of kind
of trace the victim down.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
That's right, that's right. And it may be that you
would get a telephone call from a you know, a
member of the family or someone that they know, and
generally they don't know all the picture, so that's part
of what you have to remember as well. It isn't
the fault. They're doing what they feel is the right
thing ultimately, So it is about reaching out to the
(20:02):
people around you, keeping yourself as safe as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Now do you know and how many a women that
you've helped during this whole twenty five years of being
a therapist.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
I've helped loads of people along the way, So it
sounds quite scary when I talk Jacob, really over thirty
thousand people I have heard, so, you know, and when
you think one in three women that are in an
abusive relationship, if there is strangulation in that relationship, one
in three women will die. So when we think of
(20:41):
it in that way, you know, it is really scary statistics.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Now, does every now does every woman that comes to
you do they have the same story.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
And everyone has their own story. Everybody's story is different.
Every body's story for leaving is different, and everybody's story
for staying is different. You know. From when you think
about clients, you know their abuse, there could also be
the person that cares for them. So they're stuck in
(21:15):
that relationship, you know, so for their perspective, it's a
lot harder to get out of that relationship. Some people
stay because of their children, you know. Some people stay
from a financial dependency. There's lots of different reasons why
people stay.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Now, oh, don't throw it at an example here. Now,
if a boyfriend is jettous, has that abusive relationship?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I wouldn't necessarily say that if if a boyfriend is
jealous that it's an abusive relationship. I think it would
depend on what that then looked like and whether that
escalated and whether it was a continuous issue. And for me,
there's something about part of the reason of doing the
work after coming out of an abusive relationship is so
(22:05):
that we don't take behaviors and our negative thoughts about
ourselves into new relationships in the future. So they're the
things that I would kind of look at. It's like,
when we talk about jealousy, what are we jealous of?
Can that person go out? Can the person work whatever
they want? What does it look like other limitations on
(22:27):
your life? And if there aren't and actually, you know,
you feel okay with the fact that that person's jealous
in some way, shape or form, and it doesn't affect
any other area of your life, then that's a choice
that you make.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, can an abuse or also control their social media?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Could you explain that a little bit more to me?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Can they control and who they can be friends with
on Facebook or not?
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I would say lots of ways. It's about when you
talk about controlling who they're friends with on Facebook, the
control generally comes from wanting to know who wanting to
know their passwords, so they've got access to everything that
you put on the internet. So again it's a way
of cutting you off from the people around you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Now, for people out there that's listening that are in
a relationship like this or just got out of one.
What would what would your advice be to them?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I would say that I want them to hear that
it isn't your fault, you're not to blame your abuseris.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And can you talk about what? What?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
What? The love bombing is okay?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
So for me, the way that I would describe love
bombing is, you know that we were going through that
cycle of there's been tension, there's been an argument, and
then you know what I would then class as love
bombing is what the part of the reconciliation. I love you.
You know, we might be buying new gifts it you know,
(24:15):
for each individual it would be different. But this will
never happen again. I didn't mean this to happen. I
didn't mean to hit you. I didn't mean to say
that to you. It would never happen again. And then
of course we continue around that cycle and off we
go again, the tension bills, we have the argument, it
may be physical. You know, you're being put down again,
(24:39):
you know, and off we go.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So it's like you get into an argument and you're
apologized and then it happens all over again.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
That's right, Yeah, this is never going to happen again.
I promise I love you, and then off we go again.
We have the calm for a period of time, and
that period of time might be a couple of weeks,
it might be a couple of days, and then it
starts again that feeling of for me, I didn't want
to go home because there was that sense of walking
(25:12):
on eggshells because I didn't know what I was going
to get. I didn't know what I was walking into today.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And does that get exhausted.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Absolutely exhausting, Yes, And I didn't want to go home.
And at one point, not necessarily from a financial perspective,
more from a not wanting to be in that space,
I was working three jobs, seven days a week because
I didn't want to go home.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And did you kind of dread going home about every day?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Every day? Every day? And for me what was difficult
and what was also which might sound daft to some people,
I don't know, but I had six dogs at the time.
So part of what was difficult for them to leave
was that it was difficult to rend somewhere with six dogs.
So what I did in my preparation of leaving was
(26:06):
to save up some money every month to enable me
to put a deposit on a house.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Now, let's with any more questions here now before I
wrap up this podcast, which I which I usually ask
my gifts if they get a close and thought for
the people listening out there, what would your close and
thought be?
Speaker 4 (26:34):
My closing thought would be Silence creates violence. And if
you need support, please reach out and I'm willing to
offer calls to your listeners, Jacob, and they can find
me on Judeholland dot coach. Please reach out, speak to
me and I will support you as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, and how on this goes up? Which I'll put
your oh which I'll put your website down below in
the description as well. Okay and po Judah want thank
you for coming on the podcast well, which I greatly
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Thank you so much, Jacob.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Absolutely all right. That wraps up this week or Conversations
with Jacob Tuny in next week for another interview. Until then,
God bless and we'll catch you guys next Monday
Got any partners. You're listening to Conversations with Jacob, hosted
by my good friend Jacob Waller. Make sure to check
out the podcast where podcasts are available, and check out
the video version on YouTube. You can follow us on
social media. Facebook is Conversations with Jacob, Twitter is at
(00:50):
CWJ podcast, and you can visit our website Conversations with
Jacob podcast dot weebley dot com. Hey you got a
show idea, maybe a guest suggestion? Email I s at
Conversations with Jacob at gmail dot com. Now here's your host,
(01:12):
Jacob Waller.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And welcome back to another episode of Conversations with Jacob.
I'm your host, Jacob, of course, which I've been your
host ever since January twenty third, two thousand and twenty three.
The podcast is going on two years, by the way,
which is amazing. But today's episodes is a good one.
I know I say that every week, but it's true.
(01:37):
But first I to do well. First I to do
a few podcasts plugs. You can check out our Facebook
page Conversations with Jacob. Our website is Conversations with jacobpodcast
dot weeby dot com. On there you can find upcoming guests,
past guests, and you can basically it basically and you
can see who's coming on the podcast two or three
months from now, which is pretty interesting and pretty cool
(01:59):
as well. And also check out the podcast every Monday
at one pm which also make sure to make sure
to like, comment and subscribe to our YouTube channel. And
also if you like podcasts, check out Two Chairs No
Waiting is an Andy Griffin Show fan podcast hosted about
my good friend mister Ouda Newsom. If you like the
(02:20):
Andy Griffin Show, the podcast is for you. Speaking of
Ouda Newsom and here is out of Newsome to tell
you more about his podcasts.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Andy Barney, Opie Goober, Floyd de Barber. That's some of
the names from the Andy griff Show. Drop by two
Chairs No Waiting, the Andy griff Show fan podcast, and
we'll visit with some of those folks along with tribute
artists and fans and just all kinds of things related
to the Andy Griffith Show. I'm your host, Alan Newsom,
and you can find the show Two Chairs No Waiting
(02:49):
at two Chairsnowaiting dot com or on iTunes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And also if you also if you want to buy
some podcasts merchandise, which to our website Conversations with Jacob
podcast dot Leedy dot com. Go to the podcast merch
tab and you click on it. You can get buy
your t shirts, your mugs and so much more over there.
And also new things are being added about every day.
So with no further ado, my guest this week is
(03:17):
Jude Holland. I don't guess she's related to Adam Holland,
who was on the podcast back in July. But with
no further ado, and here is Jude, and welcome to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Hi, thank you, Jacob, glad to be.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Here absolutely Now, for people who don't know who you are,
can you give us a background?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Of course, I am a female abuse recovery coach. I'm
also a qualified therapist an author. I've wrote two books
around domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Now now and what is short story?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Okay, so I'm going back now eight years and basically,
my mom died quite suddenly. And when my mom died,
I found out two days after she died that actually
my long term partner was seeing somebody else when I
threw him out, and shortly after that went onto a
(04:19):
dating site. And you know, in dealing with my emotions,
I was drinking too much I was using alcohol as
a way of coping with my emotions, and by going
on to the dating site, I then met who then
went to be my ABUSA for the next six years.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Now, being in a beach relationship and what kind of
goes through your mind.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think the beginning of that relationship for me, what
I realized now looking back was that in a very
short period of time I moved in with him. So
within six months of actually meeting him, I moved in
with him and moved away from family and friends, gave
up I was in rented accommodation at the time, gave
up my accommodation and moved in with him. Now, looking
(05:11):
back over that relationship, I realize now that even right
at the beginning, I put myself in a very vulnerable position.
But of course everything was good in the relationship at
that point, so there was no reason to feel worried
in any way. But now when I look back, it
was definitely, you know, a yellow flag that he wanted
(05:33):
me to move in with him so quickly within that
period of time.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Now, did you feel like helpless or confused at the time?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Throughout the relationship, there was lots of different things that
was going on, and there was lots of confusion. He
would you know that cohersive control a lot of gas lighting,
so you know, there will be messages coming through on
his phone from all the women would be seeing other
women while I was at work as well, and then
(06:03):
he would be saying, you know that that wasn't the case,
and he was speaking to women on Facebook, and he
had me questioning myself of actually, you know, was this
really happening? You know, he did and you know, making
me believe that actually, maybe I was going mad, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Now, And what was your opinion or maybe your thoughts
when you found out he was talking to other women.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And for me at that time, I obviously being in
the relationship with an abuser destroys your self esteem. So
it was part of that process of destroying my self esteem,
the beginning of that process, I want to say. But
whenever I kind of questioned him about that, there was
always an excuse or it wasn't what I thought it was.
(06:53):
You know, he never in our relationship apologized for anything,
and he never said he was sorry, you know, And
when we argued, it was always my fault if I
hadn't said or done such a thing, this wouldn't happen,
and know, you wouldn't be in a place of being upset.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So basically on whatever something went wrong, and oh whenever
something went wrong and you was to blame for it,
that's right, yeah, so and so, and how did that
make you feel?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Like I said, I felt very much like you know,
I was questioning in my mind. There was a lot
of confusion, you know, and because at the very beginning
of the relationship, actually I'd isolated myself from family and friends,
I kind of played into that abusive relationship to some degree.
(07:45):
So it was very much that sense of, you know,
the tension would build and then there would be an
incident and then there'd be that reconciliation and calm in
the relationship, and then it would start all over again.
And after six months of moving in with my abuse
at he then lost his job and didn't actually work
(08:06):
for the next six years. So now, looking back, for
lots of people, financial abuses the first things that they
recognize in the relationship. So now looking back for me,
now I realize, you know, there were lots of different
things in our relationship, and towards the end of that relationship,
that relationship became physical, and there was a couple of
(08:29):
instances towards the end of that relationship which was then
put me in a position where I decided I had
to leave.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Now diffam many friends tried to convince you that you
had to lead, So they tried to convince you that
you had to leave their ladingship.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
None of my families or friends were aware of what
was going on. So at the time, Jacob, I was
in a very difficult position. So what I mean there
is I was working as a therapist in a sexual
assault un it and I was also training specials for
the police as well within that role. So I felt
(09:07):
really stuck, as in from a professional perspective, how do
I speak out and say to people this is what
is happening in my relationship. It felt really difficult from
a professional perspective that because here I was working with
the police with clients that were going through sexual abuse
(09:27):
in their relationships. And yet you know, as this relationship progressed,
I also was in a domestic abuse relationship.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Now and when did you decide that it was time
to get out of it?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There was two critical incidents for me, So we had
been out one Christmas and I had had. I actually
left in the March eight years ago. So we'd been
out one Christmas and I'd had quite a lot to drink,
and we were arguing. It was New Year, and we
were arguing over text messages that he'd received and messages
(10:04):
on Facebook coming home, and I was just so angry
at that time. And what I didn't realize at that time,
which I realized later, was that I was also pregnant
at that time, but I didn't realize that at the time.
So I was so angry, and obviously now it was
my hormones that were all over the place. So we
(10:26):
were arguing at the top of the stairs and at
which point he then strangled me at the top of
the stairs. So that was the first point for me.
And then the second point for me was when I
actually found out that I was pregnant. And for me,
that was you know, if I keep which was a
really critical, difficult decision for me, that if I keep
this child, this man, in some way, shape or form
(10:50):
will always be in my life and we'll always be
in this child's life. So I had two huge decisions
to make.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, do you think that most maybe you maybe you
know this, but do you think that the people that
kind of gets abusive towards their spouse, how it happens
later on or just happened quick in the relationship.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I think it can be different for lots of different people.
But generally there is an escalation of that abuse. So
it may be, you know, like I said that it
may start with financial abuse, emotional abuse. There may not
necessarily be physical abuse, but generally there will be an
escalation of that abuse.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And do you think most people that are abusive they
are usually found online like a dating sight.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I think it's really difficult to say. I think, you know,
we can meet someone who and be in a relationship
with them and everything be good at the beginning, you know,
and it can become more difficult because of different things
that happen in your life. I think you are more
vulnerable online. I think people have, you know, the opportunity
(12:08):
to hide things a lot more online where you know,
we have all of our judgments, if you like, in
front of us when we meet that person in that
person in person rather than online.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And do you think that they controw who that person
sees and be friends with.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Definitely, from from my perspective, there is very much that
sense of I you know that I hardly saw my
family in the six years that we were together, and actually,
when I did speak out, my sister was one of
the first people that I spoke out to. So generally,
that's one of the things that your family recognized, But
(12:46):
you don't necessarily recognize that you are actually being isolated
from family and friends.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So did you turn your experience around to help other
women in the same case.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
So for a period of time now, I've been a
therapist and coach for twenty five years, So for a
period of time now, I have been helping other women
who have exited an abusive relationship or may actually still
be in an abusive relationship, and you know, are recognizing
some of those signs. I've been doing that for a
(13:22):
period of time, and you know, being in an abusive relationship,
people feel that when you leave, everything is okay, and
actually that isn't the case. We have to rebuild our life,
we have to rebuild our friends group. You know, the
fact that we can say no, the fact that, you know,
reducing those feelings of isolation and shame and negative thoughts
(13:46):
about ourselves that have been so ingrained in alls, you know,
in that sense of fear of judgment from others that
we have to kind of rebuild ourselves and have that
compassionate voice towards ourselfs Now.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Oh, with someone that abuses on their spouse, what are
some of the guests lightned things that they usually do?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So there's lots of different things that you could look for.
So it may start off with something as simple as
your partner checks your phones and your phone and your emails.
It might be put downs, It might be you know
that they have an explosive temper, you know that, isolating
from family and friends, moving too fast in the relationship.
(14:31):
If there is an argument, they may never say that
they're sorry or they're never to blame, you know that
kind of and obviously that kind of escalation from emotional,
mental and physical abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Now and now and what are some of the red
flags kind of beauture relationship to? Like the red flags
happen after you start dating or can you notice it
kind of right away?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I think it's difficult because when you start to date somebody,
you see the good side of that person generally, so
they're showing you all the good traits they don't and
you know, there's very much a lot of that love
bombing going on, and similar to when you're in that
relationship with them. But I think it's difficult when you
first meet somebody that you're trusting yourself in that moment
(15:26):
that what you're seeing from that person is genuine and
it takes time to recognize that actually those behaviors may
take time to demonstrate themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, and you just brought up another question, and Kenny,
in my mind here and how when you were starting
public with your abuser always say like two different people
held in public and also at home.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I think that's the part that's really difficult. So just
a little bit of information about him. He was a
sales guy and everybody loved him. He had this charismatic
manner about him, so no one would have looked at
him and thought for one moment that he was a
completely different guy behind closed doors.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And do you think people are like that today and
where they can just flip a switch and they're two
different personalities, I think.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And there are other things that play a role. I
think things that are happening in your relationship can create
more you know, losing your job for instance, the fact
that alcohol may be involved in that, there can be
lots of different things that escalate things being not okay
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Now, is it the right thing to confront an abuser
or is it just you know, kind of can just
let them do what they need, because you know, take
kind of come back and hear a lot like if
you make them out, you know, take a come back
and slappy or do whatever. So is it the right
thing to confront them or just let them do their thing?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I think from my perspective, what happened for me is
that being in an abusive relationship affects your self esteem,
and in that rather than disagreeing with someone and saying
that they're wrong and saying no, what happens is that
you lose your voice. And in losing your voice actually
in that relationship, what that does at that time is
(17:29):
keep you safe?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Now now and how did you kind of build yourself
back up? How do you lift that relationship?
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Okay? So I at the time, I would say anyone
who's in the position at the moment that are in
a situation similar to what I was, I would ask
them to reach out to people that are around them. So,
whether that be an next door neighbor who may have
seen something, whether that be a family friend or a
(17:58):
member of the family, or to pick up a telephone
and speak to a helpline. And then but the one
thing that I do want to say is that leaving
your abuser is one of the most dangerous times for
a survivor, So thinking about organizing that before you do it,
So maybe packing a bag, making sure that you've got
(18:18):
important documents that you need, and maybe also opening up
your own personal bank account and also maybe a credit
card card in your name as well, so you're starting
to develop your independence.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Now, when somebody leaves an abuse of relationship, is there
a case that the abuser might try to follow them?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
There is yes, And from from my perspective, I had
from our police support here and I'm sure there be
something very similar where you are, Jacob. I have what
the class is a rape flag on my house, so
that if I ever got a telephone call, if I
ever rang the police, they would have been with me
(19:00):
in a very short period of time. So, but there
are things that you can do to keep you safe.
So it might be that you know, you would buy
another phone if you have a phone, so you're kind
of changing everything that you make sure that your location
is turned off on your phone as well. And I
would definitely say in lots of occasions to get a
(19:21):
new phone, because actually you can have things put on
your phone that you're not aware of and your abuse
that can track you that way.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Now, is there also a case whether the abuse room
might get a friend or somebody to kind of kind
of trace the victim down.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
That's right, that's right. And it may be that you
would get a telephone call from a you know, a
member of the family or someone that they know, and
generally they don't know all the picture, so that's part
of what you have to remember as well. It isn't
the fault. They're doing what they feel is the right
thing ultimately, So it is about reaching out to the
(20:02):
people around you, keeping yourself as safe as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Now do you know and how many a women that
you've helped during this whole twenty five years of being
a therapist.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
I've helped loads of people along the way, So it
sounds quite scary when I talk Jacob, really over thirty
thousand people I have heard, so, you know, and when
you think one in three women that are in an
abusive relationship, if there is strangulation in that relationship, one
in three women will die. So when we think of
(20:41):
it in that way, you know, it is really scary statistics.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Now, does every now does every woman that comes to
you do they have the same story.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
And everyone has their own story. Everybody's story is different.
Every body's story for leaving is different, and everybody's story
for staying is different. You know. From when you think
about clients, you know their abuse, there could also be
the person that cares for them. So they're stuck in
(21:15):
that relationship, you know, so for their perspective, it's a
lot harder to get out of that relationship. Some people
stay because of their children, you know. Some people stay
from a financial dependency. There's lots of different reasons why
people stay.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Now, oh, don't throw it at an example here. Now,
if a boyfriend is jettous, has that abusive relationship?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I wouldn't necessarily say that if if a boyfriend is
jealous that it's an abusive relationship. I think it would
depend on what that then looked like and whether that
escalated and whether it was a continuous issue. And for me,
there's something about part of the reason of doing the
work after coming out of an abusive relationship is so
(22:05):
that we don't take behaviors and our negative thoughts about
ourselves into new relationships in the future. So they're the
things that I would kind of look at. It's like,
when we talk about jealousy, what are we jealous of?
Can that person go out? Can the person work whatever
they want? What does it look like other limitations on
(22:27):
your life? And if there aren't and actually, you know,
you feel okay with the fact that that person's jealous
in some way, shape or form, and it doesn't affect
any other area of your life, then that's a choice
that you make.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, can an abuse or also control their social media?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Could you explain that a little bit more to me?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Can they control and who they can be friends with
on Facebook or not?
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I would say lots of ways. It's about when you
talk about controlling who they're friends with on Facebook, the
control generally comes from wanting to know who wanting to
know their passwords, so they've got access to everything that
you put on the internet. So again it's a way
of cutting you off from the people around you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Now, for people out there that's listening that are in
a relationship like this or just got out of one.
What would what would your advice be to them?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I would say that I want them to hear that
it isn't your fault, you're not to blame your abuseris.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And can you talk about what? What?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
What? The love bombing is okay?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
So for me, the way that I would describe love
bombing is, you know that we were going through that
cycle of there's been tension, there's been an argument, and
then you know what I would then class as love
bombing is what the part of the reconciliation. I love you.
You know, we might be buying new gifts it you know,
(24:15):
for each individual it would be different. But this will
never happen again. I didn't mean this to happen. I
didn't mean to hit you. I didn't mean to say
that to you. It would never happen again. And then
of course we continue around that cycle and off we
go again, the tension bills, we have the argument, it
may be physical. You know, you're being put down again,
(24:39):
you know, and off we go.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So it's like you get into an argument and you're
apologized and then it happens all over again.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
That's right, Yeah, this is never going to happen again.
I promise I love you, and then off we go again.
We have the calm for a period of time, and
that period of time might be a couple of weeks,
it might be a couple of days, and then it
starts again that feeling of for me, I didn't want
to go home because there was that sense of walking
(25:12):
on eggshells because I didn't know what I was going
to get. I didn't know what I was walking into today.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And does that get exhausted.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Absolutely exhausting, Yes, And I didn't want to go home.
And at one point, not necessarily from a financial perspective,
more from a not wanting to be in that space,
I was working three jobs, seven days a week because
I didn't want to go home.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And did you kind of dread going home about every day?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Every day? Every day? And for me what was difficult
and what was also which might sound daft to some people,
I don't know, but I had six dogs at the time.
So part of what was difficult for them to leave
was that it was difficult to rend somewhere with six dogs.
So what I did in my preparation of leaving was
(26:06):
to save up some money every month to enable me
to put a deposit on a house.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Now, let's with any more questions here now before I
wrap up this podcast, which I which I usually ask
my gifts if they get a close and thought for
the people listening out there, what would your close and
thought be?
Speaker 4 (26:34):
My closing thought would be Silence creates violence. And if
you need support, please reach out and I'm willing to
offer calls to your listeners, Jacob, and they can find
me on Judeholland dot coach. Please reach out, speak to
me and I will support you as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, and how on this goes up? Which I'll put
your oh which I'll put your website down below in
the description as well. Okay and po Judah want thank
you for coming on the podcast well, which I greatly
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Thank you so much, Jacob.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Absolutely all right. That wraps up this week or Conversations
with Jacob Tuny in next week for another interview. Until then,
God bless and we'll catch you guys next Monday
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