The Doctor Who Tried to Save JFK: The Truth He Never Spoke

The assassination of President John F. Kennedy remains one of America’s most contested and consequential events. On that tragic afternoon in Dallas, Dr. Malcolm Perry performed an emergency tracheotomy in a final attempt to save the President’s life. What he witnessed inside Trauma Room One has fueled six decades of debate, contradiction, and unanswered questions.
In this powerful episode of The Truth Central, Dr. Jerome Corsi is joined by Dr. Juliette Engel, who worked alongside Dr. Perry and had detailed conversations with him about what he saw, what he did, and what he later could not say publicly.
Together, Drs. Corsi and Engel explore:
✔️ Dr. Perry’s firsthand account of JFK’s wounds
✔️ Why his initial statements conflicted with the official story
✔️ Altered medical records and inconsistencies in government reports
✔️ What Dr. Perry told colleagues privately vs. publicly
✔️ Whether pressure, intimidation, or threats influenced his silence
✔️ Why so many medical witnesses never spoke openly
✔️ How the truth about JFK’s condition became tightly controlled
This deep investigation examines the medical evidence surrounding the JFK assassination, the suppression of critical testimony, and the lingering questions that remain unresolved to this day.
For more information on Dr. Juliette Engel, visit:
🌐 www.JulietteEngel.com
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
More Angel.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Of course, our guest today is doctor Juliette Engel, MV
and doctor Engel has got a couple of really important stories.
We're going to start by focusing on the assassination of
John Kennedy and what knowledge she has that adds to
the book I've written, which is the Final Analysis. And

(00:23):
here you can see with David Mantick. David Mantick has
done the X ray examination of the Kennedy skull X
rays from the autopsy. There's three of them in the
archives and he's seen them more than anyone else. He's
a radiation oncologist with the PhD in physics, and he
has shown that the three X rays are all forged

(00:46):
to mask evidence of frontal shots. And there were two
shots to the front that hit Jack Kennedy. One was
in the temporal bone by the right ear that blew
out the occipital bone on the back of Jack Kennedy's head,
and another was a bullet that hit him in the
forehead above the right eye at the hairline and left

(01:07):
a bullet trail that you can see going across the
top of the skull with the largest fragment in the
back and the SHOT's not exiting the skull, which is
clear evidence of a frontal shot. This is forensic evidence.
It's no longer speculation. It's clear proof, and I think
indisputable proof that Jack Kennedy was shot twice from the front. Now,

(01:29):
doctor Engel has a personal experience, we're going to go
through and relate. But the surgeon. When Jack Kennedy got
shot November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, the cigarette service
immediately brought the limousine to Parkland Hospital, which was on
the Stemens Freeway on the route that Kennedy was going

(01:49):
to go to speak at the Dallas Trademark. Of course,
he never got there. He was shot and killed. At
the Parkland Hospital. They brought Jack Kennedy in mortially wounded
to Trauma Room one, and the surgeons at Parkland Hospital,
still in the Trauma Room one, the emergency room, did
their best to try to save Jack Kennedy's life. They

(02:12):
pretty well knew it was hopeless when they took a
look and saw the severity of the wounds, and we'll
discuss that. But nevertheless, they as physicians, they had a responsibility,
especially with the President of the United States. They did
not want it to be thought that they didn't do
everything possible to try to save the president's life. So

(02:33):
the very first things that happened was doctor Malcolm Perry,
one of the surgeons at Parkland, got to the trauma room,
one among the first physicians to arrive, and he saw
a puncture wounded Jack Kennedy's throat which came in through
the windshield in the front of the limousine. It was
a frontal shot and it had like a small pencil

(02:56):
mark puncture hole going into the throat. Doctor Malcolm Perry,
I began a tricheotomy, which is a way to get
ventilation in the lungs to try to get the person breathing.
That's doctor Malcolm Perry, and that's normal procedure, normal operating room,
emergency room procedure, and it was completely the right thing

(03:20):
to do. And doctor Engel had subsequent experience with doctor
Perry on doctor Anton, why don't you pick it up
from there and tell us how you came to be
associated with doctor Perry.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Sure in nineteen seventy four, I was twenty five years
old starting my internship at the University of Washington in
Seattle and started I started on the er rotation that
was my first rotation, and that was the week that

(03:53):
the Parkland surgeons, so the entire first I should say
that when Kennedy was taken to Parkland Hospital, the Parkland
surgical team was the number one trauma team in the world.
I mean, these were the best of the best, and
they're the ones that came immediately to the er and
tried to resuscitate Kennedy until they were pushed out by

(04:17):
people that they didn't even know who they were. But
the pressure on that surgical team, and particularly on doctor
Malcolm Perry, who initially reported that he did the trake
through a bullet hole, was so great that the entire
surgical department had to leave Texas. I mean this is
like fifteen top trauma surgeons left, moved their families, moved everything,

(04:41):
and came to the University of Washington. So the day
that they arrived, I was the surgical intern in the
University Hospital emergency room and I met doctor Perry, and
I was so stunned at meeting him. He was such
a giant in my world that I dropped the glass

(05:03):
of diet coke right on his shoes. You never forgot that.
He was very nice about it. But I've died of
guilt ever since.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm sure it endeared you to mean.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
By I'm your surgical assistant. I can't even hop onto
a glass of coke. But it wasn't long before I
had my first huge trauma case in the middle of
the night.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Let's break for Let's break for a second and fill
in some more backstory here that so everybody can follow
this and know the significance of what you are going
to testify to. You grew up, where did you? You
grow up a lot of different places, and you have
another story that we're going to get to. But when
did you begin your medical studies and where did you

(05:52):
begin them?

Speaker 1 (05:54):
After I left, I grew up in an mk ULTRA program,
And after I escaped and left that, I went to
the University Washington, where I worked my way through university
and then got into the University of Washington Medical School.
So I went to medical school there in Seattle, did
an internship there, and my first internship rotation was University

(06:14):
Hospital when the surgeons arrived from Parkland. And what year
was that, nineteen seventy four.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
And seventy four? Okay, Now, the mk ultra story that
you experience and escape from is another really important part
of your story. Now we may not cover that entirely
in this broadcast, but we will cover it much more
thoroughly in a second one. And you have written a
book which is called Sparky Surviving Sex Magic, and I'm

(06:45):
going to recommend that everybody get this book. I think
it's a compelling read, and we will cover it in
detail in a subsequent podcast. If we just touch on
it here, it'll just be brief because we want to
cover extensively the JFK story. So doctor Engel's got two
stories that are important.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
To us, probably more than that.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, there's Russia. Well, there's
Russia too, I forget it. That's your second book in Russia.
That's I'll have to read that one next and then
we'll probably do more interviewing. But you've had a very
interesting life and your third book on Moscow traffic your
second book, Angels over Moscow? Is that your second or
third book?

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Second book is Angels over Moscow.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
And Moscow briefly, what was that experience all about?

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, as I finished my training at the University of
Washington and radiology, practiced for close to twenty years in
Seattle and then was invited to go to Russia to
help reform maternal infant healthcare. Discovered the high number of
children being abandoned and trafficked into rings where they were

(07:56):
taken abroad and used for sex and prostitution. Did a
lot of work too change that created an underground railroad
that ran for fifteen years, rescuing kids from one hundred
and twenty different countries, and called the Angel Coalition. So
the Angels are the Angel Coalition, and that describes my

(08:17):
work in Russia.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, we will cover that one as well, very thoroughly.
Now let's set up the story here. So Jick Kennedy
is shot and he's brought to Parkland Hospital and again
the he's in trauma Room one. Doctors are rushing in here,
and the is Doctor Engel said that this is a
top this is not a slouch emergency room. These guys

(08:44):
are top emergency room doctors. Now, why, well, this is
nineteen sixty three and Dallas is still pretty much the
wild West. I mean, it's not entirely the wild West
because it was in the eighteen hundreds, but there's a
lot of people shot by gunshot a lot of accidents,
traffic accidents and everything you can imagine, but I would

(09:04):
say the shot by gunshot wounds are probably at a
statistical high at that time for Dallas. So these were
positions that were used to seeing people in fights getting gunshot,
and they it was not exceptional for them to know
how to deal with gunshot wounds, which also meant they
had to learn pretty quickly to recognize what was an

(09:29):
entrance room, what was an exit wound. And doctor Uncle,
you have the emergency room experience, you must have done
the same. And so what's the when you're in an
emergency room and you've got a patient, what's the first
things you're thinking about?

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, you think about are they breathing? Can they breathe?
Are they bleeding? Are they are they injured? Well, it's
mostly breathing and bleeding at the first go as I'm
when doctor Perry, well, for one thing, it's not one doctor.
It comes in. When the surgical trauma team comes in,

(10:03):
there's probably eight doctors. Each of them goes to their
particular area. And doctor Perry was the premiere tracheotomy surgeon
in the world. I mean he taught everyone else how
to do it. Including me, and so he would go
right to the throat, see that that the Kennedy wasn't breathing,

(10:24):
and he would go right for the trake. And so
there was a lot of confusion, but a lot of
people and there was no it took. It takes. First.
You stabilize the patient. You make sure they're breathing. They're
breathing and they're not bleeding out. So you get a
line in, you do a trick if you need, you
get oxygen.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
You got to make sure they stake alive.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well that's how that's how you do it.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, And the second thing I got to do for you,
I would think is how badly is this person injured?
What's the problem.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Once you've got them stabilized, then you start the process
all the This happens very fast. I mean, this is
less than a minute before you've got to line in,
a trake in and they're on a ventilator if they
need to.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Because the person could die in twenty seconds, and you know,
you don't know if you've kind of do everything you
can immediately to stabilize the person, make sure they're breathing
and they're not bleeding out.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
So so I recall they had people putting lines in
his legs, lines in his arms, sob clavian lines. So
he was being worked on by multiple.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Being worked on by multiple people at once. Okay, and
what they and also one of the other important players
in this is nurse Audrey Bell. Now she comes into
the trauma room one as Kennedy's begun to be worked on,
and what she is finding is that her she's the one,

(11:47):
she's a nurse responsible for setting up an operating room. Now,
should they be successful in saving this person's life in
the trauma room, and there's significant injuries that have to
be dealt with immediately, the next place that that patient's
going is to the operating room because it may be
life threatening to operate. So, for instance, we had a

(12:09):
gunshot wound, and the person survives the gunshot wound, but
now you've got a bullet that's penetrated vital organs or
its close to the heart or could be life threatening.
The first thing you want to do is get in
there and try to get the bullets out, try to
do the damage. Is that was that correct, doctor Engel?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
First, just the first thing you do stabilize the patient
oxygen and get their blood volume stabilized.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, and then get them to figure out if you've
got them stabilized enough to go in the operating room,
do they need to be operated on? And what end
is they operated on?

Speaker 1 (12:42):
And they didn't have ct MRI at that time, so
everything was done with with fluoroscopy, so it was not
as efficient.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Ye words, they're not doing any MRI. They're not getting
a precise reading of what's inside the person.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
No, they didn't have ultrasound either.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
It was there was no ability to really know what's
going on inside the patient except for intuition. Now, when
Nurse Bell comes in, her first thing is, okay, what
do I have to do? So her testimony was, when
I took a first look, I could recognize the president,
but I didn't see an injury because there was no

(13:20):
injury around his face, she explained. So I asked where's
the injury? And doctor Perry was doing the tracheato movie
standing there. He simply reached up on the President's head
and he pulled it up and turned it to the
left a little bit, and she said there was a
gaping hole. That's where the brains and fluids were dripping
out it. The wound in the back of JFK's head

(13:42):
could have been three or four inches in diameter. That's
what I saw, Okay. Now, when you see a wound
like that, the first thing you know is that that's
an exit. When it's a massive avulsive what they call
it a vulsive exit room, which means that the blownout's
back of the head is from a frontal shot. Second,
is this person's not going to survive. You're not going

(14:05):
to replace that much brain damage, and it's a matter
of time until they die. If you can stabilize them
and even keep them alive for any period of time,
they're probably going to be a vegetable. And with that
much of the of the back of the head gone
blown away. Nurse Bell is not not in the rush
to go get the operating room prepared. She probably went
and did it, but it was not like she knew

(14:27):
it was going to be a need for an operation. Now.
Some of the other testimony, Doctor mccollin, who was there,
another one of the top surgeons part of the trauma team,
gave his testimony. He said, I, as I took a
position at the head of the table, this trauma room
one is not very big it's got its very tight

(14:49):
space and they're all crowded in here. So he took
his pa at the head of the table to help
out with the tracheotomy. I was in such a position
that I could very close examined the head wound, and
I noticed that the right posterior of the skull. I'm'll
show you where that is. Right posterior is the back
the occipital range. Okay, I notice the right posterior had

(15:10):
been extremely blasted. It had been shattered, apparently by the
force of the shot. So the parietal bone that's the
bone on the top of your head, was protruded up
through the scalp and seen to be fractured almost along
its right posterior half. In other words, the fractures were
all on the right side of the head, and they're

(15:32):
noticing that right away as well as some of the
occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half. So again
they're seeing that the trauma is to the right side
of the head. These fatal shots are coming from the
right side of the head, which again largely is going
to associate with the grassy knoll in front of Kennedy.

(15:54):
But the point is that They're not thinking about that
at that moment. So I said it and what it
sprung open the bones, these fractures of the eccipital bone
in such a way could actually look down into the
skull cavity itself and seether the third or least of
the brain tissue, the posterior cerebral tissue. The cerebral tissue

(16:16):
is just the tissue on top of the head and
some of the cerebellar tissue. Ceahbell is an organ at
the back of the head, a different color, and you
can recognize it easily when you're looking at the brain
have been blasted out. There was a huge amount of
bleeding which was occurring, mainly from the large venuous channels

(16:36):
in the skull which have been blasted open. Those are
blood vessels in the skull which have been blasted open.
Now a third doctor, doctor Crenshaw, gave maybe the best
description of the wound. And remember these are recollections from
the first seconds. These doctors are immediately saying what am

(16:56):
I dealing with here? You got to assess it quickly.
So he said, I walked to the President's had to
get a closer look. His entire right cerebral hemisphere appeared
to be gone, looked like a cratered, empty crater. All
I could see there was mangled, bloody tissue. For the
damage I saw there, there was no doubt in my
mind that the bullet had entered its head through the
front and as it surgically passed through the cranium, the

(17:21):
missile obliterated part of the temporal appear by the ear
at all of the parietal and occipital lobes before it
lacerated the cerebellum at the back of the head. The
wound resembled a deep furrow and a freshly plowed field.
Several years later, when I viewed slow motion films of
the bullet striking the President, the physics of the head

(17:44):
being thrown back provided final and complete confirmation of a
frontal entry by a bullet to the cranium. Now, doctor Engel,
that's pretty clear evidence that the shot that killed Kennedy,
the shot from the temporal bone through the back of
the head, was a frontal shot that didn't massive damage

(18:04):
to the we had on the right hemisphere. The left
hemisphere they weren't noticing any real damage to but the
doctors must have concluded just looking at this that this
guy isn't gonna make it. It would be obvious to well,
you saw that kind of damage on a patient, what
were you first thought.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I don't think anybody but the president would have gotten
that much resuscitation that had stopped. Yeah, it would have
stopped before it started.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
But this was the president, and so therefore, because it
was the president, you couldn't be accused of not having
done everything you could possibly do that right that.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
You're adrenaline's high and you're going in there to save him,
and of course you would do everything.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Well, the finally they were actually the doctors actually got
to the point where they were trying to massage Kennedy's
heart to try to get him a heartbeat, and one
of the doctors finally said, stop it. His brains are
his brains are all on the they're blown out. The

(19:19):
back of the cerebellum is dangling from the back of
his head. The massive damage here, he's not gonna survive.
So therefore we're wasting our time here. Our job is done.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So who declared him dead? I mean that they had
to have someone it's sort of at the top of
the chain to declare him dead.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I do write about that. Let me find if I
can find the passage. Finally, one of the doctors did
declare that this is done, and we're calling us to
an end, and let me find if I can see
quickly in the book who that doctor was. But there
was a particular doctor who was in charge of that
decision and made it.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Because in an er situation, the intern can declare someone dead.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
But that situation, it would take someone much more senior
to actually be willing to do it. And okay, these
are all discussions here. I'm just looking through the book,
and I'll find this in a minute here if it
just takes a little bit of time to The discussion
in the book was so detailed that sometimes I myself

(20:31):
forget where I put things, But I'll find it here,
hopefully in a minute. Okay, now, let's just do a
couple more things before we get to that, and hopefully
I'll come across it as I'm paging through the book
and get back to that point. But the doctors when
they do declare that Jack Kennedy is dead and there's

(20:55):
nothing more that can be done to save him. Oh,
by the way, they brought in a defibrillator, they were
doing everything they could. They're bringing all the equipment they
could figure out. They're trying to do something here. They
were in panic mode and they were trying to massively
save his life. So Kennedy was logged into Parkland as

(21:17):
patient number two four seven four zero, twelve thirty eight
Central Standard time, and Kemp Clark was the one who
pronounced JFK dead at one PM. And Clark wrote, when
I saw the severity of the head wound, I thought
everything we had done for him those twenty minutes was
a complete waste of time. It was a four plus injury,

(21:41):
which no one survives. And Clark said, my god, the
whole right side of his head is shot off. We've
got nothing to work with. So essentially, you know, you
see Kennedy with this horrendous wound. And there's a couple
of other statements here that are interesting in that regard.

(22:05):
Crenshaw defended the position and he said doctor Grenshaw said,
usually trauma victims are stripped of all clothing, so an
injury will not be overlooked. No one attempted to remove
the President's briefs. I think it was out of respect
for the man, the dignity of the position he held,
the principles for which he stood that we subconsciously did

(22:27):
not want to see him lying their naked. In addition
with a horrendous head wounded suffered, we weren't concerned with
the lower part of his body. We could have stabilized him.
There would have plenty time to look for additional injuries.
Now why this is of substance is because when the
doctors declared it was done, the trauma doctors were finished

(22:49):
with their job, and they are now going to leave
the trauma room because there's nothing further for them to
do that. Now others take over, the nurses take over.
They've got a body. They're going to have to deal
with the body. But even more importantly the what happens

(23:10):
next is that the pathologist at Parkland Hospital, doctor Earl Rose,
shows up with the Justice of the Peace, and he
says this was a local murder. There's no federal crime
to kill the president, and so therefore we're doing the autopsy.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
On his book Conspiracy nineteen eighty, Anthony Summers wrote at
the hospital, as a secret service team prepared to take
the body to Washington, doctor Earle Rose, the Dallas County
Medical examiner back by a Justice of the Peace barred
their way. They wouldn't let them take They wouldn't let
the Secret Service take the body out of the trauma room.

(23:52):
The doctor said that under Texas law, the body of
a murder victim may not be removed until an autopsy
had been performed. And the justice is the peace. Judge
Ward declared, it's just another homicide as far as I'm concerned. Okay,
But the Summers and his Report on Conspiracy nineteen eighty
book quite good book said the Secret Service agents put

(24:14):
the doctor and the judge up against the wall at
gunpoint and swept out of the hospital with the president's body.
They were wrong in laws. With the hindsight, they denied
their president an efficient autopsy. So Secret Service, which by
the way, knew Kennedy was shot from the front because
Secret Service Clint Hill was when the shooting started, was

(24:37):
on the follow up Secret Service car. He got off
the running board, he ran up, managed to get him
a hold on the left hand rail the back of
the limousine and he climbed onto the footboard there and
got onto the car. And when Jack Kennedy was shot
from the grassy knoll with the shot that hit his
at the temporal bowl, and we could see this in

(25:00):
the X rays. There's a keyhole fracture. So you get
an oblique wound to the side of the head and
it causes a keyhole fracture. It's not a puncture mark
because it's entering of the side and it enters with
a round hole, but it's breaking about the bones in
front of it looks like a keyhole and that's a
sign of an oblique shot which does massive damage and

(25:22):
cause the blowout. So that had to be a high
powered shot that hit Kennedy and it came from the
front and Clint Hill got splattered on the left of
the limousine with Jack Kennedy's brain matter and the motorcycle
inboard motorcycle officer also got splattered with the bone matter.
A piece of Jack Kennedy's occipital bone flew off onto

(25:46):
the grass to the left of the limousine. It's called
the Harper fragment. It was subsequently found by a medical
student like the next day and identified at the time
as occipital bone part of the back of the head
that had been blown off. Now, because the trauma team
did not examine Kennedy's body. Okay, so doctor I go

(26:09):
once the patient's pronounced dead, is there any reason for
the doctors in the trauma room to examine the body
and see what additional wounds there were?

Speaker 1 (26:22):
They might, They might, they don't necessarily. If the oologists
is there to take the body, the pathologists will do
it right.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean, see, your job is done in the emergency room.
He didn't save his life, so why are you gonna
look for anything else. Pathologist is going to do an autopsy.
They'll do a far better job than you did. I
mean that certainly would be a logical assumption for a
surgeon in the trauma room, wouldn't it? Is that correct?

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, Plus, there's thirty people crowded in that little room,
all kinds of equipment, secret service. I mean, they probably
pushed the surgeons out of there.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
So the problem was that since they took the body,
Malcolm Perry on Kemp Clark, who did the press conference,
did not know that there was a wound at the
back because they didn't turn Jack Kennedy over. There's a
puncture wound in the back, so they missed that, and

(27:22):
that becomes important in the story. Now Perry comes out
with doctor Clark Kemp at three sixteen pm Central Standard time,
over two hours after Jack Kennedy died, and doctor Clark
and Perry were the only two Parkland physicians at the
press conference. They made it clear they observed only two

(27:45):
wounds in the emergency room, a bullet hole puncture wound
at the midline of the throat, just below the atoms apple,
and a large gaping wound at the back of JFK's head.
Three different times, doctor Perry affirmed the throat wound was
a frontal entrance wound. Two times Perry described the throat

(28:05):
wound as an entrance room. He said, Doctor Perry, the
neck wound as visible as the patient revealed, a bullet
hole almost in the midline. Question, what was that, Perry?
A bullet hole in the midline, would you demonstrate? Perry said,
in the lower portion of that confront. So he's pointing
to the position he talked about in the midline, below

(28:26):
the atom's apple. He said, approximately here below the atom's apple. Yes,
below the atom's apple, Doctor, is the assumption that it
went through the head. That would be conjecture in my part.
There are two wounds. Doctor Clark noted one in the
neck and one in the head. Now, whether they are
directly related to two bullets, I can't say. So. One

(28:47):
possibility would be a bullet entered the throat and that
was the bullet that blew out the back of his head.
That the only two wounds they saw. They really did
not pay attention to an entrance wound to the temporal
bone because Jack Kennedy had also been hit in the
back of the head, which caused a massive blowout in
the front part of his head, but in between the

(29:10):
temporal bone and the parietal bone, but it didn't conflict
with the very top quadront of his head where the
bullet that went in in the mid line stayed in place. Now,
likely that was a liquid mercury bullet because the burden
was also stained. And as an entire story we're going
to as it evolves, we find out that the backstory

(29:33):
when they announced that the Harvey Oswald is the lone
gun assassin, well Ike Alchins and a photographer for the
Associated Press, had been standing in front of the limousine
when the shot occurred. He took a picture of Kennedy
reacting to the bullet hitting his neck through the windshield
and the Texas school Book Depository was obviously in the background,

(29:56):
So now all the shots had to come from the back.
But the body shows front told Wounds they got a body.
They're flying back to Washington, where the evidence of the
body contradicts the lying cover story set up to frame Oswald.
They've also got another problem. The only three cartridges were
dropped in the sixth floor of the Texas school Book

(30:18):
Depository and would have been set up to look like
a sniper's desk. But yet one of the bystanders, James T. Tay,
got nicked in the cheek with a bullet, and so
that meant one shot missed. So now two shots had
to have done all the damage to Kennedy's head, and
all the damage to Connolly, who broke his ribs on

(30:39):
his left side. It entered his wrist and broke the
large bone in his wrist and ended up in his
left knee. All this damage has now got to be
from two bullets. So you got to have one that
somehow struck Kennedy in the head did all this damage
to the head. You got to have one that in
the back, maybe that came out through the throat, and

(31:01):
then it pivoted and hit Connolly. That becomes the magic bullet, Okay,
But to make that happen, they secretly get the body
to Parkland from Andrews Air Force Base, where the plane
lands at approximately six o'clock in the evening eat Washington time,

(31:21):
six point thirty. The body's being delivered to the Bethesda
Morgue in a shipping gray shipping casket and a body bag,
which is not how I left Parkland. The doctors do
pre autopsy surgery to alter the wounds, and we demonstrate
that I try to remove as much of the wound
that they couldn't remove the shots at the top of
the head. So I think the brain was stained, and

(31:42):
I think the X rays showed stained brain as well
as possibly some fragments of a liquid mercury bullet that remained.
So let's go back to Parkland now. On the press conference,
Perry says, to be conjecture in my part, there's two wounds,
one of the neck and one of the head. Whether
they related to two bullets, I can't say. Was that
an entrance wound right? He says, there was an entrance

(32:04):
wound in the neck. As regards to the head, I
cannot say which way was the bullet coming from the
entrance to a man him, It appeared to be coming
at him. So a third time doctor described the entrance room.
Do you think the from the front of the throat?
He said, yes, the wound appeared to be an entrance
wound in the front of the throat. Okay, so Clark

(32:27):
could not say h Clark said the head wound could
have either been the exit wound from the neck or
could have been a tangent wound. It was simply a
large gaping loss of tissue. Speculated the loss that the
gaping posterior wound could have resulted from a bullet that
entered the throat or from a separate bullet through the
right side of the head. In either case, he clearly

(32:49):
implied that the gaping wounded the right of Jack Kennedy's
head was an exit wound, and he emphasized that he
could not comment on JFK's throat wound because he was
busy with the head wound. Okay, So we go forward
a little bit further now, and what we find is
that doctor Perry gets be sieves through the night by

(33:17):
questions from Bethesda, who's doing the autopsy, and they're not
satisfied that doctor Perry said that the shots were he
was shot from the front. They've got a big problem.
They got to get the Parkland team to change their story.

(33:38):
So when Saturday morning, November twenty third, nineteen sixty three,
when Perry showed up at Parkland Hospital for his shift
that morning, Audrey Bell noticed that he looked terrible. He
look like he looked like he hadn't slept that night,

(34:01):
and so she said, what's the matter? And Malcolm Perry said,
people from Bethesda have been bothering him on the phone
all night, trying to get him to change his professional
opinion about having seen an entry wound in the front
of Kennedy's neck to one of having seen an exit
wound instead. So Douglas Horn, who did the five volumes

(34:24):
on the Assassination's Records Review Board, said, I don't know
what doctor Perry told his tormentors in the night of
November twenty second, twenty third, nineteen sixty three, but I
do know he straddled the fence nicely during his March
nineteen sixty four testimony before the Warren Commission, testifying the
Irele Inspector to the wound in the front of him.
The neck could have been either an entrance wound or

(34:46):
an exit wound. By then, Perry was already compromising with
the truth as he expressed it on the first day
Kennedy died when he stated unequivocally three times in the
Parkland Press while standing next to doctor Clark, that the
bullet appears Kenny's neck was coming from the front, and

(35:06):
Nurse Bell says there was on the record with a
government agency, a parent attempts by the members of the
US government the night of the autopsy changed history by
altering the recollections and testimony of a key assassination witness,
namely doctor Malcolm Perry. Okay, doctor Engel, here's again where
you coming to the story? Now? Doctor Perry taught you

(35:29):
how to do your first trichy out of me? Is
that right?

Speaker 1 (35:32):
That's practice? What happened, well, I was on duty in
the University emergency room University Hospital emergency room, and a
major trauma came in. I believe it was a motorcycle
accident with the helmet stuck on the head, obvious tracheal fracture.

(35:52):
This person was alive but not breathing, and they called
the surgeon, but the regular surgeon wasn't but Malcolm Perry
was there. So he came into the emergency room and
I wanted him to do the track and he said, no, no,
you're going to do it. And so he talked me
through it and then he started and then he kept talking.

(36:17):
So while I'm sewing up and doing everything else I
needed to do, the patient did survive. After we traked him,
he said, he told me. He told me about coming
in and seeing the wound on Kennedy and not even
giving it a thought, that you, if there's a hole there,

(36:37):
use it. And so that was his lesson, and he
talked about what it was like that night, how crazy
it was, and the importance of because he was teaching me.
He was teaching me as a physician, you don't get
distracted by the craziness all around you or any other
part of the patient. You do your part, because each

(37:00):
part is critical in a trauma team. Each one had
their role to play, and if it's getting in lines,
or it's you know, starting a blood transfusion, or all
of those things are all part of the trauma team.
And his was to do the trick. And he said,
so he went right through the bullet hole. And I

(37:25):
have no doubt at all that he went right through
the bullet hole.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Now, doctor Perry, you were doctor you were in other
operations with doctor Perry where he was doing the surgery.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, yes, that's his internsure.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
And so surgeons often talked during these these operations because
they're through consciousness, they're passing time as well as working
on the patient.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Well, he didn't so much. It was just it was
just this late night in the er, blood everywhere him
and me, and so he was talking. I think he
was teaching me. He was teaching me how to be
on a trauma team, how to be a surgeon, how
to focus on the patient. And so it was a
unique kind of situation.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Did he ever suggest that he had seen that He
was clear that it was a frontal woman and.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yes, no, no, he was absolutely adamant about it. That
it was that he went right through the bullet hole
that was put came in right under the tracheal cartilage.
And the lesson is if there's a hole there, use it.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well. Did he talk about being pressured.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
He talked about being pressured later. And also because the
entire medical team from Parkland fifteen top surgeons of the
world left their homes in Parkland and took over the
surgical department in Seattle. It was a major, major move,
and all of us understood it was because of the

(38:59):
terrible pressure that they were under at Parkland, because of
the testimony Kennedy testimony and the risks to several nurses
I think were killed and people disappeared, And it was
a time when they were all being terribly pressured, and

(39:21):
they came to Seattle.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Because again, if they had held their story that Kennedy
was shot in the front, the government set up of
Oswald falls apart and the lie is apparent. So they
have to break these doctors of Parkland, otherwise they can't
lie to the public that Kennedy was shot by Oswald.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yes, it must have been difficult for them because these
were the world's most famous surgeons. So you can't just
pop them off and throw them out of a car
without a great deal of attention. Plus they were the
most honorable men in the world. I mean, Malcolm Perry
was absolutely the best. It must have been tortured for

(40:03):
him to be forced to change. What do you know
is true?

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Well, there's some more testimony recently, author Rob Coutteau found
some contemporaneous evidence. He found a journal article published by
Martin Steadman, was a reporter in Dallas at the time
of the assassination, and assassination's researcher, an excellent researcher, James Dugenio,

(40:34):
confirmed that Steedman was indeed in Dallas for several days
after the assassination, gathering information. Do Eugenio also noted that
some of Steedman's information got into print, but this newly
discovered article was not published. Stedman's article fifty Years from
the Fatal Day in Dallas was published in on a

(40:54):
blog and it was picked up, and Steedman wrote, I
was in Dallas as a reporter for the Harold Tribune.
There in Dallas to inquire into the unanswered questions surrounding
the shocking events of November twenty second to twenty fourth
the assassination nineteen sixty three. On the evening of December second,

(41:15):
nineteen sixty three, so it's just a few weeks after
the assassination, Stan reading crime reporter from the Houston Chronicle,
and Fred Faretti, a colleague from the New York Herald Tribune,
visited Perry at his home shortly after dinner time. Steadman
remembered a little girl playing with her toys on the
living room floors. The three reporters and her father talked

(41:36):
about how he tried to save the president's life. He
commented that the controversy over the Perry's press conference end
quote didn't erupt until government officials in Washington said all
three shots that the president had been fired from the
six to four window a building behind the president. Okay,
and Steadman described the meeting. So doctor Perry said he

(41:58):
believed he was an entrance wound in the throat because
a small circular hole was clean with no ragged edges.
Of course, the conversation was asked. In answer that he
had treated hundreds of gunshot wounds in the emergency room
at Parkland Memorial Hospital. Another point, he said he was
a hunter by hobby, was very familiar with guns and ammunition.

(42:18):
Said he could tell a glance the difference between an
entrance wound and an exit wound with its jagged edges.
So Steadman continued, but he Perry told us that throughout
the night of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, the
night of the assassination. Received a series of phone calls
to his home from irate doctors at the Bethesda Naval
Hospital where the autopsy was being conducted. Doctors there were

(42:42):
becoming increasingly frustrated with his belief that it was an
entrance wound, said. They asked him if the doctors in
Dallas had turned the president over and examined the wounds
in his back. He said they had not. They told
him he could not be certain of his conclusion if
he had not examined the wounds of the president's back.
They said Bethesda had the president's body and Dallas did not.

(43:04):
They told doctor Perry he must not continue to say
he cut across what he belied was an entrance wound
when there was no evidence of shots fired from the front.
When he said again he could only say what he
believed to be true, one or more of the autopsy
doctors told him and from Bethesda they would take him
before a medical board if he continued to insist on

(43:26):
what they were certain was Otherwise, they threatened his license
to practice medicine. Doctor Perry said, okay, so he confirmed
that the pressure was there, and Ostebben continued. Ultimately, doctor
Perry testified as witness before the Warring Commission. In substance,

(43:47):
he testified that he realized he had no proof the
hole in the President's neck was an entrance wound, and
he conceded that the Bethesda doctors who autopsy the President
would know better because they had all the president evidence,
and he had but a fleet recollection. So Stedman's conclusion
was I can't fault doctor Perry for his testimony before
the Warren Commission. Surely occurred to him there was no

(44:10):
point in holding out for a belief that couldn't be proved.
And just as surely this thirty four year old surgeon
with an exemplary record in a brilliant future knew his
life would be forever shadowed by conspiracy theories relied heavily
on the bullet fired for the front. He testified only
as you most certainly had to testify. They'll never forget
what he said to the three reporters that night in Dallas. Okay, Now,

(44:35):
doctor Engel, we've talked about it, and you think there
was additional threats to the family.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, And what Alc. Perry told me was that what
he said to Bethesda and to the Warren Commission was
that going doing the tracheotomy through the bullet wound had
obliterated the evidence of the bullet wound. And beyond that
point there was so much destruction. You couldn't tell tell

(45:00):
much of what was going on. But the only moment
you could really tell was the moment that before he
did the trake. So he's the one person that could
say that was an entry.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Wound, right, and you saw it. You've seen it. Doctor
Perry do tracheotomies, I'm sure, Oh.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, he was. He was absolutely the best. He taught
everyone in Seattle how to do them.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Now, the gaping wound and Kennedy that shows up and
they and the autopsy photographs, it's not a nice neat
slit to open up the bullet hole. This is a
gaping wound. The whole throat looks like it's dug apart.
I mean that did doctor Perry's tracheotomies look like the
whole throat had been disturbed and internal tissue exposed. No, no,

(45:49):
it didn't. They would be simple, simple.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
He was just going through and getting a tube bin.
That act meant he had to wipen knit with the
with the two spreaders and but that's not.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
A gaping hole that stretches almost from neck to neck.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, no, and it and the way you described the
entry bullet wound, it wasn't. Bullet wounds usually aren't.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
So they're small puncture holes puncture holes, right, And they're sterile.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
That's the nice thing about bullet wounds. So they're always
sterile because of the heat generated when the bullets being shot.
You don't have to worry so much about infection immediately.
So that's why he favored using a bullet hole when
he could.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
And our discussion is you've said you have reason to
think that doctor Perry's family might have been threatened more
than just his career.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, something something serious happened. He is a person would
not have backed down. They weren't going to take his
medical license away from him, but us. And this is
rumors because he didn't tell me this directly, that his
family was seriously threatened, which is why you agreed to
go to Seattle, and they they the threats continued. So

(47:09):
but that that I can't say too. I can tell
you what he told me one on one in the
emergency room when he was teaching me how to do a.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Trake right, but you have a recollection that was just
said that perhaps one his son had been even kidnapped
or threatened to be kissing.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yes, there was something like that, but since I can't
find anything about it, and I if Tom Shires is
still alive, he would know Doctor Shires was. He was
the head of the trauma department, and he came with
Malcolm Perry.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
To Seattle, so Perry would have talked about the threats
he received to his family intimately with.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
To Tom Shires and uh oh the other the other
senior attendings that he came with.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
And there's this vague recollection you've got that there his
son might have been kidnapped, may have been a threat
to kidnap his son. I mean they went to they
went to they.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Went after his family and and scared him enough and
his family enough that he equivocated. What he said was
that the act of doing the tricheonomy could have could
have altered the evidence.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, he never really he never really admitted that it
was an exit wound.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
No, no, no, he never said it was an exit wound.
He said his surgery altered the appearance of it and
and obliterated the absolute evidence which it did, so he couldn't.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
He couldn't prove any longer he was right. So he
conceded that he couldn't prove he.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Was right, but he did they couldn't prove him wrong either.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
But then he didn't concede that he was wrong. No,
he gave into the hypothetical, cassing that you know, this
back wound could have yeah, well, you know, angels could
have come in and save Jack Kennedy too. They just didn't.
A lot of things could happen hypothetically. But Perry was very,
very circumspect in saying that since he debliterated the wound

(49:10):
by doing the tracheotomy, it was no longer in the
state with which he'd made his original judgment, so he
couldn't go back and put it back in that state,
and so he couldn't say for sure right.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
And I can tell you that those Parkland surgeons knew
more about gunshot wounds than anyone else in the world.
They had treated more people, more trauma cases. They were
the world's experts on what was an entrance wound, what
was an exit wound, and how you treat it. They'd
done the most research on it and the huge pressure

(49:44):
it must have taken to force an entire surgical department
to leave Parkland Hospital and come to the University of Washington,
which was nowhere near as nice as Parkland.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Park was really one of the better places to be.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
It was the best place to be. It had the
state of the art everything. At that time, Seattle was
a backwater, which is why they came. But in terms
of the facilities and the equipment and all that, it
got better, but it was no comparison to Parkland.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
They sought obscurity because they thought it gave them some cover, yes,
and they went as a unit. So the doctors all.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Switched unheard of. They brought their residents, they brought their nurses,
they brought medical students. It was a huge, a huge undertaking,
and they did it without telling anyone. They just sort
of appeared one day. So all of this was done,

(50:50):
and of course the surgeons at the University of Washington
were furious. They were not happy.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
I'm sure they lost this whole team.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
On Parkland lost their team, and the University of Washington
got replaced by the hot shots.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Right, And you know it had to have been it
had to have been a massive, frightening scare.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
For all of them.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Otherwise, I mean, they would have told the.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Truth and they would have stayed in Parkland, and.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
They would have stayed in Parkland. But they didn't. And
so that's clear indication of the massive pressure put upon them.
And it's other clar indication of the extent to which
the government went to lie, to alter the facts, the evidence,

(51:46):
to fit the lying narrative, and to perpetuate this Truman show.
We've been living under this Jim Carrey Truman show. That
Jack Kennedy was shot from behind three shots from the
Texas school Book to Lee Harvey Oswald failed the paraffin test.
It's unlikely he shot anybody that day, and yet he's

(52:08):
the one they framed. He's the one they killed. And
it was a CIA from the moment car the limousine
got to Parkland Hospital, the Secret Service is seen getting
buckets of water and cleaning up the blood damage from
the second seat, the backseat of the limousine, which is
altering a crime scene. When the puncture wound was seen

(52:31):
in the limousine, they cordoned off the limousine, would not
let anybody photograph it, and they got the limousine out
of there right away by Sunday that limousine was in Dearborn, Michigan,
and they replaced the windshield, destroyed the original windshield. Government's
altering evidence, including altering the body of the president in
pre autopsy surgery. This is a government conspiracy to kill

(52:53):
the president and get away with it, which until now
they've done so. I think doctor Engel, your testimony is
extremely important and new. I think you haven't really told
the story publicly. Have you told the story publicly before?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
No, I haven't. We talked about it when I was
an intern. What was that fifty years ago?

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Right?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
No? I never had.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Well, thank you for coming forward. It adds additional information
and we will certainly publicize this. We're going to have
you back to talk about your MK Ultra experience. That'll
be the second chapter, and encouraging people before that to
get the books. Your book Sparky, which is Surviving Sex Magic,

(53:45):
and this a compelling story of your experience in MK Ultra,
which unveils another important personal experience, illuminating a very dark
part of our government manipulated history.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Which is important because it's influencing what's happening now.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
So is the Kennedy assassination Live exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
It's all part of the same, which is largely why
I agreed to even talk about doctor Perry.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yes, because you've kept that private and respected him for
fifty years since you first met him.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
He was a mentor, he was wonderful, and he died,
and he was a chainsmoker, and he died of lung
cancer in two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Well, with all the tension and complexes he must have
had over what he was forced to do, I'm sure
it affected his life and his health.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I'm sure it did. He was under terrible pressure and
a lot of guilt. But if you can talk to
doctor Tom Shires, if he's still alive, he would know
quite a lot.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
I'll try to track that down and find out. I
don't know at the moment whether he is alive or not.
But there's also a it's been on the internet, has
been shown recently. Paramount did a whole They finally got
the tapes from the doctors of Parkland and allowed them
to be seen by the public, and that was just recently.
The doctors of Parkland give a lot of testimony about

(55:16):
Kennedy being shot from the front, So now getting to
be overwhelming evidence that the government has lied and that
this is coming out now. I think the government understand
they can't maintain this lie any longer. It's important part
of deconstructing this evil intelligence operation military industrial complex that

(55:38):
that President Eisenhower warned us about that has thrown us
into perpetual wars depopulationists, this dark evil agenda which is
controlled the United States of America to destroyed the United
States of America and destroy our freedoms.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
And the MK ultra conditioned the generation of people, starting
with my generation, that are making this happen, and who
are the mind control arms of this.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
We'll get into this our second broadcast. Yes we can
talk about that, doctor Engel, thank you for joining us.
I know it takes some courage to talk about these topics,
and I greatly admire your willingness to come forward. Thank you,
Thank you, doctor drome Corsi. In the end, God always wins.
God's going to win here too, and I imploy everybody

(56:27):
in the spirit of Second Chronicles seven fourteen. Let's get
on our knees and ask God to forgive us for
letting this dark satanic element control our country for so long.
God will win. God to not create this experience to lose.
Satan gets sent back to Hell. And I pray that
the judgment of God upon us for allowing all this

(56:48):
evil to happen without more strongly protesting it, more strongly
overturning it, that we will be forgiven. God will hear
our plea and heal our land. Doctor Drone Corsi, thank
you for joining us. We'll be doing this at thecrecentral
dot com. We're doing podcasts every weekday and we look

(57:10):
forward to continue. Thank you for joining us. God bless