Cory Hughes and Tim Gardner Discuss the Joannides Revelations

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Without further ado, I want to go ahead and bringing Corey.
Hope you're well, my friend, and welcome in.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey, how's it going good?

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good to hear your voice, man. I mean, there's just
a lot of crap going on on.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of crap. I guess you could
say that. Yeah, But I'm pretty harsh on JFK news
when it comes out, you know, because ninety nine percent
of it is like meaningless. You know. The Joe Nita
stuff is interesting with the alias, but we've known that
Joe Das was in New Orleans summer sixty three. I've

(00:36):
never been able to connect him to anybody, obviously because
of the name, but I never knew what he was
doing down there. I don't even know if the CIA
had an actual station down there like they did in Miami.
JM Wave was that was the biggest CIA station that
had like thirty thousand agents attached to it or something
absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Enerly, it's really interesting just to see that, I mean
from a mainstream perspective, you know, it's just interesting to
see guys like Gerald Posner and his posse, you know,
coming out with guns blazing towards you know, people that
I actually believe that there are more than one shooter,
and like, you know, just you know, questioning the narrative

(01:18):
of the lone gunman theory, and and I can't wait
to hear your take on that.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well yeah, let me just let me say this about
Gerald Posner. So he wrote one of his first books
was a book on the Holocaust, and it was he
interviewed the children of like the SS right who had
been like secreted away and hidden and protected and all
that stuff, and nobody had these people's information at all.
It was ultra top secret. But then he gets the

(01:43):
information of those interviews these people to write a book, Okay,
that tells me everything I need to know about the guy.
Where do you get that information from the only people
that would have had it?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
So and then anybody on the lone gunman tips still
like people who are lone gunman proponents, there's they just
and the ultimate failures because they don't the information is
out there that proves that it was not alone gunman
right at a very minimum, and they just ignore it all.
They ignore it all.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, yeah, I mean, all you have to do is
just watch the subruter cape. I mean again, you see
that final shot and there you go. I mean you can't.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
I mean, for me, I mean that that kind of
puts the quincher on it. Like I look at the
Zubruter cape and I see his head getting blown off,
and forgive me for seeing that in such a graphic way,
but good morn. I mean, it's just yeah, it was
obviously a shot that came from an angle near the front,
like you're in the Knowle area or wherever it was,
you know, or need to be.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
But anyways, so Doug Horn, when he talked to the
the new HSCA or whatever they're calling it, I don't
even know if it has the name, Doug Horn said
that there were it was evidence of three shots to
the head. I really don't know. I'd like to understand
what he's talking about, because as far as shots from
the front, I have a you know, I've calculated as

(03:04):
a throat shot and as a headshot, and that's it
from the front. Now, could there have been a simultaneous
from the rear? Sure, now another one on top of
those two, I don't know. That just seems a little bit.
I could I couldn't place a shooter to make that
other shot, for sure so.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Well, my perspective is, is that backshot that that they
found that that was lodged in his back and barely
going in right, that that came in from the Book
Depository building?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I doubt that. I doubt that. I would say that
that probably came from the Daltechs. The when you look
at how the vehicles on that angle lined up to
the stoop underneath the the fire escape, it's like a
perfect line that the shot that if there is a
shot that went through the windshield, I would say it
came from there. Also, the shot that hit the curb

(03:57):
with James Tag that definitely came from the Daltech's. They
all come from that same single line of shots. So
I'm not sure I know that. So you have two
shooters in the Book Depository and one on the roof.
Now we know there's one on the roof because they
found a Mauser up there, and then the Dallas Police

(04:19):
actually said that a security guard dropped it, so they
confirmed that there was a Mauser found on the roof.
The two shooters that I put inside the Book Depository
are Lawrence Howard and Lauren Hall. You have to understand
the full backstory of these guys. To understand their involvement
in the setup of Oswald, in the relationships with New
Orleans going back to sixty one, right, so these guys
are major players in the story of the setup going forward.

(04:42):
It was Lawrence Howard, Lauren Hall, and William Seymour at
Sylvia Odios. And we know this because Lauren Hall admitted it, right,
We have a document where he admitted it in an
FBI interview. But then a couple of days later he's like, oh, yeah, no,
I remember now it wasn't them. I don't know who
it was. Right. So, once you understand their involvement, and
then you kind of connect the dots through like the

(05:03):
Thomas Beckham stuff where Thomas Beckham actually delivered a package
to him at the executive in with money. I mean,
it becomes pretty obvious what was going on. And then
when you get into the Jules Rico Kimball stuff, he
names Howard and Hall and these guys. He calls him
a bunch of crumbs, you know. And he's the one
who basically told Garrison that Howard and Seymour took the

(05:24):
shot at Walker, right, which makes perfect sense. I don't
know that they use that Carkano for that, because I
think the bullet was never identified or was identified as
something else. But they would have had access to the
Carkano because ultimately it was planted up in the book pository. So,
but then you have the you have the statements of
Arnold Roland. He sees the guy up in the window

(05:48):
and he described him as a as a Cuban or
a Latino, and he was dark complexed and his his
you didn't know if he was wrinkled or scarred, but
he said his face was marked in some kind of way.
That's only one suspect, Lawrence Howard. Lawrence Howard had a
pockmark face and he had moles on his face. He's
a really rough looking guy. Uh Cuban, dark and black

(06:08):
dat you walk on Cuban. He was a Mexican, half Mexican,
half Irish born in Los Angeles, I believe so.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
But for your.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Listeners out there, I'm gonna go ahead and share if
that's okay with you, Corey, I'm gonna share the picture
of him. Yeah, so you have an idea, I'll do
that here later on in the discussion.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
But Tim, I see you hopped on again. Thanks for
having me on your show. Last night. Do you have
a question for Corey or some input for us tonight?

Speaker 4 (06:40):
Sure? Yeah, why would a why would a security guard
be carrying a German mauser?

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, good question.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
And then and then what do you think about the
doctor's reports that showed a gaping wound in the back
of Kennedy's head and then later recanted that and then
came back with it later again.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, yeah, of correspond with the Harper fragment. So I
think it's pretty clear that that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
So with the with the Harper fragment, will you go into.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Detail about that for those of us who may be
not so keen on the Harper?

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (07:12):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
The Harper fragment was the piece of occipital bone, which
is the back right It was the lower right back
portion of the skull. It was found by a guy
named Harper. It was turned over and it's now disappeared.
But fortunately we have photographs of it, we have all
we have all the documentation, but the bone itself is gone,
which is kind of funny when you have the evidence
but you don't have the evidence, right, But yeah, it was.

(07:35):
It was picked up and turned in the same day
and we have all the information on it and now
we don't know where it's at, so like.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Many important things you know, in sixty years that we
don't have. So yeah, you know, I'm just really interested
doing you know, going going past that, you know, the
alias that that he had had, just in general, we're
talking about Joe and Edis and you know, I wanted

(08:01):
to get your thoughts basically on what I know you're
not really high on mister Morley, but just what he
was able to bring out or discover with these particular documents,
because I know you you've been able to go well
beyond that and way through the forest with the document
disclosure that you know.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
But well, my thing about Morley's work, it's all it's
all based around the CIA, and I'm not really sure
what he's digging. I mean, he might be just digging
for specifics, but he's digging for specifics when he doesn't
understand the general layout, So I don't know what the
hell he's doing. I mean, for me, if you want
to know the CIA involvement is jam Wave right exactly,
Joanitas and Morales and then you got of course Angleton

(08:44):
and then Dulles, the master of knowing everything and nothing
at the same time. And so beyond that you have
the contract agents, you know, Ferry and all those guys.
I mean, you got to think all these mom guys
were CIA also. They really were like Clergi Arcacia and
uh Emilio Santana, They're like, they're Antichastric Cubans, right, but

(09:05):
they worked for Marcelo in fucking New Orleans, right, so
they were acting on behalf of Mafia, not you know,
the anti Castric Cuban stuff. So sorry, I left my
point there for a second.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
No, you're you're fine, You're fine. I just found it
interesting with I mean, you sent out a document last night,
and for those who don't know, we've been talking mostly
about the past couple of weeks about the duplicates of
the CIA assets that have been out there in nineteen
sixty three.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
And that document that you sent that I read last
night about Marguerite Oswald, that was pretty fascinating.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well you explained a little bit more about it.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, I got it here somewhere. Let me pull it up.
So this document is a cover sheet? Where is it? Yeah?
I can't find it offhand. If you could find it,
that'd be great. But basically, it's the cover sheet. It

(10:07):
stated in nineteen sixty and it indicates it was a
memo from the FBI to I don't remember it was
the CIA or two O and I, but it basically
stated that there's a nine hundred and eighty six page
document on Marguerite Oswald. And this is in nineteen sixty,
before the assassination. Like why they would have nine hundred

(10:30):
and eighty six pages on hers beyond me well, other
than the fact that she was in the waves Navy
Waves program and they hid that from us for some reason.
But that if you read down at the bottom, it
basically says what's in the file, and part of it
says rap sheet. So Marguerite Oswald has a rap sheet
that nobody knows about arrests somewhere that was hid, right,

(10:51):
So that to me connects to that, to me connects
to the night forty one New Jersey stuff. Right. So
there was an Office of Security file from the CIA
that was originated in Oni that mentions Marguerite Oswald, New

(11:11):
Jersey and Nazis and it's in nineteen forty one, and
we don't have this document, but we have references to
this document. And so to me, I feel like it
would be connected to that some way, because I think
I remember reading somewhere that there was a Communist association
through people that she knew back in that era, because
the FBI was asking people from that era if they

(11:34):
knew about her associations with communism back then, which is weird.
But yeah, I think it's connected to that stuff. But
obviously she got arrested, well, one of them got arrested.
And you know, I'm just going to say this. The
more that I dig into this Marguerite Oswald stuff, there

(11:55):
was a guy who put out a book named Duran
I think his name was Robert Duran perhaps, and he
put out a book basically expanding on John Armstrong's work,
and he identified, he tentively identified with really kind of
made up facts. I think he was on the right track,
but he made up the fact that this woman named
Emmin Voitier, who's a cousin of Marguerite Oswald, had a
son named Leon and he wrote the whole book about

(12:15):
how it was Ammon Voititier is actually Marguerite Oswald, and
I'm like, yeah, whatever's bullshit. So I go dig into
Ammonth Voittier and I think that he was right. Honestly,
the lack of details for Ammanth Voittier's life ending in
fifty six when the switcheroo actually occurred, because I'm writing
my book on the on the Oswalds and the actual
official switch of official address has occurred in nineteen fifty six.

(12:39):
So every address from Oswald's history is one provably where
Lee lived with his mother and sometimes with his two brothers.
That ends in fifty six. In fifty six, all the
official addresses switch to this other woman who's most certainly
Marguerite Oswald. She's only five foot one. Margaret Oswald was
five foot seven, Okay, Margaarite Oswall was good looking in

(13:02):
thin she was an icon of fashion, they called her.
And we all know what this Marguerite looks like, right,
Even people who knew Marguerite in the past, like Myrtle
Evans said, when they saw her on television, They're like, yeah,
it's not Marguerite. Who the hell is that she got
so old? And so in digging into all all with
all these little facts, I started digging into ammind Voytier,
and I'm pretty convinced I don't think we'll ever know

(13:22):
because we're missing documents, But that's a name that needs
to be Foyd because there's virtually no information on her whatsoever.
She's linked with one address for forty two years from
the time she's born. For forty two years, no one
does that, and then before that, her father was connected
to that same address for twenty years. Nobody does that.
That's just crazy. And then her whole life disappears in
nineteen fifty six, the same year they do the official

(13:44):
switch when they moved to the colin Wood address in
Fort Worth. But see then the colin Wood address brings
up the whole slew of other problems because we have
proof in the form of John Pick's application to the
Air Force. He put in February of fifty six. He
put two thousand or three thousand and six Bristol Road,

(14:04):
which is where the real Marguerite was living. So in
fifty six they did the switcheroo from the real Marguerite
to this other woman. It sounds crazy until you actually
go through the documents and you look at the photographs
and all this stuff, but it's one hundred percent true.
And actually between fifty five and fifty eight, I'm running
into some conflicting information that doesn't fit with either Oswald

(14:26):
or his mother, which leads me to indicate that there
might be even somebody else using the name Oswald while
working at the Dolly Shoe Company back in nineteen fifty
or what year was it, nineteen fifty five? But then
the Dolly Shoe Company opens up a whole slew of
problems because they might have backdated the dates that Oswald
worked there. But see, see, when you get into the
Oswald story, it's all consuming. It is crazy, and I

(14:50):
find far more intriguing than the assassination itself because it
leads to other things, like what else were they doing
in the forty is that they need to do some
my identity transfer operation with this kid? Why what's the point?
And so I'm so glad that Joe Needa stuff came
out with that alias and uh Mary Haverstitch put on

(15:11):
her Twitter, because that's an identity transfer operation exactly what
that was. And that's exactly what I'm talking about with
the Oswald stuff. It's not crazy, and there's more and
more evidence of this kind of stuff coming out every day.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
So yeah, I know, and I'm just surprised now because again,
like I mentioned, the lone nutters, the lone guys that
believe that Oswald was just some crazy mad man that
decided to wake up one day he's having problems with
his wife and he's just like, you know what, I'm.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Gonna go ahead and shoot the president.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
I mean, like it makes no sense to me, just
like you know, anything that happened.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Afterwards, and then just so easily you paying.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Him to be at the movie theater, to send all
these officers over there right away, just all of it
just as an add up. And so that's just my
two cents on it.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
The thing I don't understand that I want to understand
is going back through his childhood, there had to have
been through his mother and his aunt. There had to
have been government contacts that we don't know anything about. Yes,
there are so many huge voids in the documentation that

(16:22):
we really don't I mean when I really think about it,
and you think of when you think of like a
bureaucracy and how much paperwork they produce, it's disgusting. I
mean I bet that the FBI produces a million pages
a day or more. Right, it's just and like, what
do we have, really thirty two thousand pages of FBI files,
three thousand pages CIA files. Oh, we only have like,

(16:44):
we don't have any of Garrison's files. I'm telling you
with certainty, we have like two percent or three percent
of Garrisons files. And I think a lot of the
evidence for that comes from that Garrison Sprague conference document,
because they talk about all kinds of stuff that's not
in any of his records at all.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, that's really interesting, the Garrison Sprague thing. And that's
what I'm gonna be doing research into next.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
I mean, you really, you know, I don't want to
say hyped it up for me, but I mean, like,
I believe where you're coming from on this. I mean,
I I'm really excited to you know, sink my teeth
and the you know, what they have available.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I mean, I'm sure they just have. There's so many
different angles that they don't have available. But I mean.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Garrison was just I mean, that guy was really really
on it back in nineteen sixty seven, as you suggested.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, and when he points out all the second and
third layer connections that are beyond the scope of normal
Kennedy research, you start to see people in places they're like,
what the hell, Like that guy, what was his name?
Was his name of Lazar. I think his name was
the Lazar, the guy who worked for the Lincoln Mercury
dealer right where they were. Oswald went to do a
test drive, which has become a staple of the story,

(17:54):
right because os as a setup story. Oswald goes there
and he's like, Hey, I'm gonna come back in a
couple of weeks. I got a bunch of money. Right.
That sounds like, you know, I'm gonna get a couple
bunch of money from killing the president, right, And that
was kind of like I think why they planted it.
But that guy Lazar who was running that place, he
only worked there nine months and he was a lifelong spook.
Other than that, yeah, yeah, And just.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Like the rest of the people, just like the rest
of the people that we talk about, like the Pains
and you know, everybody.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
I mean to me, it was just like they were
all planned there for a certain period of time.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
And then there you go.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
They're just they all had a certain role that they
were playing, which is just you know, if you would
have told me this before, like you know, like just
researching this case, I thought I would have laughed at you.
But now that I'm like really dug into this. I
mean like it makes sense. I mean, all the dots
connect on that.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
So the deeper you dig into the fine details, the
more everything in the world just falls apart. Oh, absolutely crazy,
is crazy, Like everyone thinks that Oswald was a radar operator.
Oswald wasn't the radar operator. Oswald was at the best,
the closest anyone could ever put him to a radar
unit is as a plotting board operator. Joseph Gajuski, who

(19:06):
was a sergeant out in at Sugi for a time,
he said he was great on the plotting board, but
if you wanted to be a radar operator, you had
to go through a thirty three week course. He went
through a six week course. So not a radar operator.
But it's etched into the story, you know, So what
else is there? Before I got on with you, I
was just digging through John Armstrong's collection of the autopsy

(19:31):
documents because I'm looking for scars and whatnot, and so
I didn't realize this, but between the time Oswald was
autopsied and then Oswald was buried, he grew scars on
his left arm that weren't there during the autopsy. That's weird.
And he didn't have the he didn't, Okay, So when

(19:53):
he's in when he's in at Sugie, I'm not gonna
tell the whole story because it's really long and twisted,
but he's trying to avoid going to where was it
He was either Taiwan or was it the Philippine Yeah, Taiwan. No,
it was the Philippines the first time. So he's trying
to get out of going to the Philippines, and so
he actually what he does is he shoots himself in
the left arm. It says in the documents it was
an accidental discharge, but he later told people that he

(20:15):
did it on purpose. He had surgery, he had the
bullet removed. He should have a huge scar behind his
left arm that wasn't there at the autopsy at all.
No scars on the arm. So that's really strange. But
that's what I was digging into. If you haven't, if
you if you out there haven't listened or haven't read
through John Armstrong's document collection, it's the best in the world.

(20:37):
I've read a chunk of like Wiseberg, and I've read
all of Garrison, and there's good stuff in there, for sure,
But there's a lot of unnecessary junk. Armstrong's collection is
like very finely tuned, and not only does he have
the original documents, he has his handwritten notes in there
with it also like it's the best, It's the best
in the world. It is the absolute best. Now, I

(21:00):
don't really I don't ascribe to anything that he says
after nineteen fifty nine at all. He kept trying to
insert this too Oswald thing into the setup in the assassination,
and that was like, oh god, it's almost an embarrassing
failure on his part. But his work up until Oswald
leaves the Marines is like perfect. I haven't gotten to

(21:23):
Oswald in Russia yet. I'm putting that off till after
I finished this book, and then I'm going to get
to Oswald in Russia. But I'm anticipating there to be
some shenanigans over there too, I guess. Recently I read
that Marina's uncle, who was KGP, was most likely a
double agent and that's how he got everything, you know,
sorted that. So I have to dig into that a
little more. But I'm really fascinated by some of the

(21:44):
Russian stuffcause some of the pictures don't make sense, like
the picture of them holding their baby that looks like
a doll, that doesn't look like a baby. There's a
lot of crazy stuff with Russia. He us a different name, Alec,
you know, or did he right? The picture with him
and Marina on the bridge. He's not much taller than
she is, and she's like five foot one or five
foot two. Yeah, so there's a lot of weird stuff

(22:04):
in Russia. I'm half excited and half dreading and getting
to it.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well, I mean and again in that world back then,
and I mean it's just from a I mean, when
you're growing up as a kid, you look back then,
you're like, you know, it was a lot more instant
back then, and you have that perception. But as you
start reading into how dirty these people were, especially.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
JFK and a lot of the people that surrounded you know,
I'm not sitting here knocking JFK, but it is what
it is.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
I mean, like, the guy was not a very squeaky
clean guy, you know, and he had multiple mistresses, you know,
and so many things that I've gathered and yeah, he
wasn't you know, he essentially signed his own death certificate
with the CIA.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
By by the way that he was.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
I mean, like, you know, through whether you know, trying
to take over command when it came to the Cuban
missile crisis or the khrush Jeff, you know space thing
that that they were.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Talking and planning together, you know, and and.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Of course you know the other entities that you've laid
up before, Corey, but you know, LBJ, that guy was
just a hound dog.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
He's a horrible person.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
And then you know, you can just name people and
they they every every their parents appears to be squeaky claim,
but they were just absolute ship bags.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
And so it's interesting to me.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
And so like you know, it's up to the person
who actually how deep you want to delve into this,
because you're gonna that respect meter goes.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Down and down and down and down and down and down.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
To a point where you're just like, okay, well, I
mean wow, I don't know, I don't know where I
was really going with that, but I I just for me,
since I've been looking into this and a lot of
the stuff that you give me to me as well,
I that's been my perception as of lately.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I just I kind of feel filthy after reading a
lot of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, So you got any questions or anything you want
to talk about in particular.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I got a lot, Yeah, I know, I want to
I want to get into.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Uh you mentioned, uh you're talking about Armstrong in post
fifty five one thing. I you know, especially you talk
about Kerry Thornley in the movie Theater and whatnot. You know,
for people who really want to know about the movie
Theater situation. Where where was Armstrong's I mean, what did
he label that, you know, kind of like erroneous or

(24:32):
was that was that pretty accurate in you or something?

Speaker 2 (24:34):
No, So Armstrong in his book, he he only mentions
the name carry Thornley and the whole thousand page small
print book twice and he Okay, so this is where
he really disappoints me. And I kind of understand why
he went this direction, because you kind of have these

(24:56):
crossroads you get to. And he put all his in
the basket of there being two Oswald's, and he was.
But it wasn't that his two oswald theory ended in
fifty nine for all intent and purposes from what I
can tell, But he continued all through the assassination. So
all the impersonations of Oswald at the shooting range and

(25:16):
everywhere he attributed to this other Oswald, he attributed to
the really Oswald while Harvey Oswald was taking the fall.
And it's so embarrassing. I mean, I mean, I don't
even like talking about it because it's so bad. It's
such a terrible theory. Because here's the thing. Let's say
you're doing an identity transfer operation to get a spy
into the Soviet Union. It's an old school naval intelligence

(25:38):
pre Cold War plot obviously, because it began in forty
five at the latest. At the latest, right, so this
is before the CIA, is definitely naval intelligence. So you
have this plot that's developing to get a spy into
the Soviet Union. I'm sure it was partially experimentation, right,
And so once you get the spy into the Soviet Union,
the mission is accomplished, you're done, and the idea identities

(26:00):
have been switched. And then you have the originally Oswald
going off with an alias for the rest of his
life doing another identity transfer operation. Because I think I
already told the story about last time about May Brussels
and what was his name, Donald Norton, right, Donald Norton.
Stuff is interesting because you dig into Donald Norton. That
appears to be another identity transfer operation. Also because the

(26:23):
real Donald Norton isn't the guy you met with May Brussels, right,
So it gets complicated. But these just because there's one
identity transfer going on doesn't mean it's limited to that.
That same operation could be connected to a separate identity
transfer operation and the people overlap. And I think that's
what we have going on here in the fifty five

(26:44):
fifty six, possibly even through fifty eight era, because I
have such contradictions that I can't put either person working
at Dolly Shoe. I can't put either Oswald at Dolly
Shoe starting in February at all. And Oswald wasn't supposed
to get Oswald didn't have his work permit issued till
March tenth that year, so how could he start working
without his work permit from the government beforehand, which you

(27:06):
need as an employer to have, right, So it seems
like that stuff might have been backdated. The descriptions of
Oswald and his mother, who were both working there, do
not match either person in the story or either potential
Marguerite Oswald. So yeah, so I think there might have
even been other operations going on connected to this. It
seems like Lee Oswald was the name that just got
used to a certain extent. So because later on you

(27:30):
get stories while Oswald and Russia, you get stories of
Oswald up in New York City and Greenwich Village doing
spyshit up there, And I'm like, I haven't even really
touched that yet. It's passed my purview so far. But yeah,
so these identity transfer operations are definitely all over the place,
and Oswald was clearly in it, and I don't I

(27:51):
don't know, I don't understand the relationship between the intelligence agencies,
how they work together, you know, so because obviously at
some point Oswald got handed off from O and I
to CIA or maybe on loan or I don't know
how that works. But to me, the whole phone call
to John Hurt thing is the proof he was calling
Nag's head Jesus Christ, you know what I mean. Yeah, So, yeah,
I'd like to understand the relationships that the intelligence agencies

(28:14):
have between each other a lot more because I just
don't understand how information flows back and forth, you know,
or any of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Well, there's one thing clear, I mean, like when it
comes to like, you know, obviously you mentioned is a
reel before and how they control things and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
But I mean, like when it comes to.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
The control of the CIA and these other intelligence agencies
that you just spoke about.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Their level of control globally.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
You know, obviously they had something to do with the
murder of Patricia Mumba and then DM out of Vietnam.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
You know, it seems like if you were supposed to
do an uprising, you're trying to do an uprising. If
you look at cast Brow, they repeatedly tried to assassinate
him over and over and over.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
However, in my personal opinion, if they wanted to get
it done, they would have got it done.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Maybe I'm off base on that, but are you talking
about Castro? Yeah, okay, yeah, I think that stuff is
a joke. Like I think it's a total joke. I mean,
they got him into power, right, they threw over through
Batista and put him in place, and then all of
a sudden they want to they want to oust him.
I don't think so. Number one, it looked really good

(29:24):
to have a communist ninety miles off the coast, the
ever present danger, right, So that looks good number one
to have them there, right, And so I don't buy
any of that attempts on Castro at all, the exploding
cigars and the poison and all that stuff with lorenz
or whatever her name is, right, I don't. I don't
buy any of that stuff at all. It just doesn't
make sense to me at all. Because Cuba was Cuba's

(29:49):
used as a big jump off point for smuggling operations,
you know, from you go from Miami down to Cuba
and then Haiti and then you bounce off to Europe. Right,
So it seems to me as though Castro was like
held at a distance but on the take at the
same time. That's the best description that I can give

(30:09):
of it, or how at least that appears to me.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, it's interesting because you know, I look at it
and I'm just like, you know, how everything that they've
told us, you know, if you look back and Frank
Sturgis specifically, I mean that guy I think was the
biggest liar I've ever He's the guy who just sprout
out stories.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Over and over.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
He went on Inside Edition back in I think nineteen
ninety two and said that the KGB killed the or
they were involved with killing the president, and that he
even admitted himself that he was a gunman that shot Kennedy.
And you have a lot of these guys, even the E.
Howard Hunts of the World, I mean, which.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
He's another one.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
I mean, like a lot of these guys, I feel
like they're just thrown out. There's kind of Pepper did
disillusion people.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
So there's that story about him catching a ride with
the dz Land brothers and Marie de Lorenz And I
don't know, I never found any substantiation for any of
that stuff at all. I early, early in my research
back in like twenty eighteen, I dug into those guys
in that whole thing and all, you know, all the popularized,
popularized commercial, you know, takes on the assassination, and like

(31:20):
they didn't go anywhere. So I don't really know. I mean,
Surgis was probably there because I think all of them
had to be there. I think it was part spectacle,
part ritual. I don't know, they had to be there,
all of them were there. I'm convinced of this yitzak
Ra being flew in the night before, right, so like
everybody was there. Bill Harvey even said I'm going to

(31:40):
Dallas to see what happens. Right, So I'm convinced it
was just Daily Plaza was a closed scene, right, they
had barricades up. Who was it the guy that people
aren't sure, I forget his name, Gordon something. People aren't
sure if he was really there or not. Donald, Yeah, yeah,
Gordon Arnald's right. So ultimately it doesn't even matter he
was there or not. But he did say that there

(32:01):
were barricades and all this stuff. His story to me
is fairly believable. He doesn't really give off any major
physical signs of lying. But so, yeah, I believe it
was blocked off. There were people up there keeping other
people out. And I think that most of this people
in Daily Plot if you look at those pictures, like
the vast majority of those people in the aftermath have
never been identified.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
You know, Yeah, I call bullshit on the Badgeman's lot.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I mean, like, there's there you can make out so
many different you know images if you wanted to from
you know, Mormon's photo was really super small, and you
can make.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Out you know, Darth Vader if you want to ahead.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
That, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I have
a hard time believing that the Badgeman scenario is actually.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
No, Yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent, but
I know that it was confirmed. I believe that there
was one cop up in that area, in the area
of the knoll where it met the bridge, allegedly named House. Uh,
which kind of struck me because David Wayne House got

(33:04):
arrested on the way back to Fort Worth, and so
I always wondered if there was a connection there between
the arrest of David Wayne House and House who was
the cop who was basically in the same area over
by the concrete portion and near the railroad yard. So, yeah,
a lot of interesting connections, but I have a feeling
a lot of the duplicate names that we see are

(33:25):
definitely connected.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Yeah, and one other thing I'd like to and we're
going to get back to the joean Edie singing just
a bit to cap that off. But one other thing,
I mean I thought about it over the week was
the Samuel Ruby thing. And again, for those of you
out there who haven't watched the Jack Ruby press conference,
when Lee Harvey Oswald was doing his press conference, you'd

(33:49):
be fascinated to see, like how Samuel Ruby and Jack
Ruby looked alike.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
It's just absolutely just boggles my mind.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I cannot believe I when you mentioned that that was
that blew my mind.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah. I have a picture of the two of them
together at like a wedding like in the nineteen forties
or something like that, and back then the similarity was
even more striking. It's like, oh my god, it looked
like the same person. It was crazy. It really was crazy.
You see, because Jack Ruby, he's seen where at Parkland Hospital,

(34:25):
He's seen all over the place, right, you can't be
in two places at once, and the whole weekend he is.
But he had to go to Galveston, and there's an
FBI report somebody placed him in Galveston. A kid was
in I forget if it was a hardware store or
a sporting a store, but he puts Jack Ruby in
Galveston where he was buying or selling a gun. He
was dealing with a gun with the guy behind the counter,

(34:47):
which is weird because the gun, the shot oswaald Is
allegedly came from Joe Cody, right, a gift from Joe Cody.
That's the story. So what was he doing dealing and
doing something with a gun down in Galveston? But that
completely fits with the other incidentals. So the blonde woman
who's seen at the Ala Motel, there's no blonde woman
allegedly with David Ferry. And but David Ferry wasn't on
that trip, right, So Jack Ruby had for my calculations,

(35:11):
he had to take Andrew Blackman back to his boat.
Blackman came in on the boat. You know, I've heard
some people say this, They've identified the boat as the Mattaranga,
but I have not been able to like confirm that.
But he allegedly came in like a couple days before
the assassination. He was back on his boat by Sunday.

(35:31):
They took off out of the harbor on Monday, and
then he was interviewed by like everybody in the world
on Tuesday. Right, So they were even onto Blackman and
he was in like it wasn't the Coast Guard, it
was like Merchant Marine or something like that. Uh so, yeah,
and then when you go back to the Deer Bastard
letter where he's talking to he says, deer Bastard Wright
is David Ferry writing a letter to somebody and talking about, hey,

(35:55):
next time you come in. Brings the more of that stuff.
He called it, like euphoria or something. He's like, what
was that stuff? He's like, bring more of it a
lot next time you come. Right, I'm like, well, duh,
that kind of corresponds with the heroin story from Roe
share me right with Arcacia and Santana who We're going
to go to Dallas to shoot the president? Right, Like
those pieces all fit together. So damn I forgot my point.

(36:17):
Did I have a point in there somewhere?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Oh, you're we were just talking about Samuel and Jack Ruby,
and yes.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, So Jack had to go to Galveston, and so
by what I figure is you know that story about
him coming back in and waking them up and going
to see the billboard or whatever it is, that's kind
of a stupid story with Crawford and George Senator. I
think that's kind of a BS story to cover for
the fact that Jack was just getting back from Galveston then,
and then he goes to shoot Oswald the next morning.

(36:44):
But see he's seem in the basement for like two hours.
He's there at like nine o'clock in the morning, right,
And who's his best friend in Dallas? George Butler, who's
like the head of the police Union, right, So it's
obvious to me George Butler let him in. When you
read everything about George Butler that day, the guy was
like scared out of his mind. He was he was
like a ghost. So I think it's pretty obvious he
was led in early in the morning by George Butler

(37:04):
and then Samuel bought the money orders. That's the only
thing that makes sense to me.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
And so go ahead, what would you say to the
people out there that our event said that, say that
Jack was actually apprehensive of shooting Oswald.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I don't think you had a choice. So the first
person he called after Oswald gets arrested because I'm convinced
Oswald was supposed to die in the theater. See I'm
conflicted over what happened in the theater as far as
Oswald and the gun, because Oswald never ordered that gun, right,
the one that ended up at Railroad Express. All the
gun stuff was set up. He could have just gone
to a storm bottom for cash, no no idea, no nothing,

(37:40):
and everything would have been hunky dory, right, But no,
he left his big paper trails all fake. He obviously
didn't have the gun, but witnesses inside the theater who
were unconnected to the spooks or the police said that
they saw the gun in Oswald's hand. So I don't
understand how that series of events happened. One of the
police statements indicates the gun somehow ended up on the floor,

(38:01):
so they go to grab Oswald, the gun comes out,
they wrestle over it, it ends up on the floor. Oswald
gets his ass kicked and they drag him out the
front right. So but then you have the second Oswald
arrested up, you know, from Butch Burrows who said that
there was another man four or five minutes later arrested
in the balcony. He said, if it wasn't Oswald, could
have been his brother. You know, the same thing that

(38:24):
we get at the tip of shooting, the exact same
thing from Doris Holland at the tip of shooting. He said,
if it wasn't Oswald, it was his twin brother. And
there's only two Oswald impersonators, well, two main Oswald impersonators.
You have other people who are leaving Oswald's name in
various places, but as far as people who looked like
Oswald who were mistaken for Oswald, it's William Seymour and

(38:46):
Terry Thorntley. Those are the two. And so that's kind
of how you can narrow down like the tipit shooter,
because number one is the relationship between David Ferry and
Terry Thornley, which goes back to the Perry Russo stuff.
The bearded beat nick who they said was Lee Oswald
at the party, Jesus Christ Oswald Oswald. Oswald was always

(39:06):
clean shaven, he was always very neat, always clipped his fingers, nails.
That guy didn't have whiskers, he never had any of
that stuff. Right, He's definitely not a beard beat nick
who walked around with no shoes and had big toenails.
That's Kerry Thorny, okay, because he was a fucking hippie, right,
And so what do you understand the relationship there and
the conversations about the triangulation of crossfire and all that stuff,
and you're like, oh, okay, And then you see all
these impersonations of Oswald going on, well really mostly in

(39:32):
New Orleans. You see, this is where it gets complicated
because you have Oswald in Dallas, but in the end
of April, Oswald goes to the New Orleans and he's
there until the end of August beginning of September, and
then he goes back to Dallas at the exact same time,
you have Carrie Thornley who was in New Orleans. He
has a two week overlap with Oswald. But then he
disappears to Whittier, California, and he's gone till when the

(39:55):
end to August beginning of September, he crosses the ego
and actually on his way through Wittier, he takes a
bus through Mexico City. On his way back from Whittier,
he takes a bus through Mexico City, so he visits
Mexico City twice in the lead up to the alleged
Oswald visit in Mexico City. So he gets back into
New Orleans on September fourth. This is when Perry Russo

(40:19):
interacts with him. He interacts with him three times at
Ferry's apartment before that party occurred. And so when he
interacted with him at the at the house before the party,
he had a full beard, like that's the bearded beatnik stuff.
And he drew the picture on the picture of Oswald.
He drew a beard and said that's him, right. So
we have perfect timing with Kerry Thornley's return to New Orleans,

(40:40):
him being a bearded beatnik, the statements made by Perry Russo,
and that all definitely connects to Tippett because once you
realize that William Seymour is over by the Tidy Lady
laundry at about one point fifty one fifty five PM,
that's about ten blocks away from the tip of shooting.
He never could have made it there in time to

(41:01):
shoot Tippet by what was it about six? Right, and so,
and he's got different clothes, He's not wearing the same
clothes as described by witnesses to the tip of shooting.
So it's definitely not William Seymour. William Seymour will end
up him and Lawrence Howard. This comes directly from the
Robert Vincent book Flight from Dallas. Robert Vincent one hundred

(41:22):
percent believe the story because what does he describe a
large husky Latin and Lee Harvey Oswald, Right, it's the same,
It's all over the place, right, So it's clearly Howard
and Seymour getting on that plane and getting the hell
out of Dodge, right, So, which is the smartest thing
they did? And William Seymour. Everybody is still alive. Just
so you know, William Seymour is still alive. He lives
in Arizona somewhere. I'm not a guy who goes out

(41:45):
and does interviews, so I haven't really called him. I've
thought about it and kind of makes me nervous, so
I'd like someone else to do it.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
But yeah, well there's an interesting story about Peter Janney.
I don't want to really go off course right now,
but Peter Jenny's the son of a CIA agent and
he was he grew up in the whole CIA like
you know community.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
And anyhow, uh you've heard the name Mary pinchill Meyer obviously.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah yeah, corn Meyer's wife, right.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah yeah, and uh so she was she was assassinated
or murdered, uh, going for a walk. And anyhow, Jenny
wrote in the book that basically, you know, he he
figured out who the gentleman was that that murder him,
and he went to the guy's house. And I guess
the guy was a biology scientist or something like that

(42:38):
that was teaching somewhere at university. But he you know,
showed up at his doorstep and said, hey, you know,
I got this book out and I believe that you're
the one that killed uh Mary Meyer, and they got
into a really tense, you know, like standoff, which is
just crazy because that you know, like you said, you

(43:00):
not to say that William Seymour was in any depth.
Said that one guy. I'll have to get that information.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
But it's just crazy just to think about that.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
So Seymour and Lawrence Howard are really fascinating individuals. You know,
they get out of a whether they get out of
the army in fifty nine or sixty, and immediately they're
set up down in No Name Key with Jerry Hemming
and all those all those inner pen guys, right, Dennis

(43:31):
Harbor and you know, the whole crew, Ralph Flaughter. It's
a whole bunch of them. That's an interesting operation because
like they're funded by the CIA, but they're really just mercenaries.
And I thought mercenaries were fucking illegal. I didn't think
you're allowed to be a mercenary in America, like and
go fight war for another country. It's like a violation

(43:51):
of there's some law about it. You can't go fight
in another country's war unless it's Israel, of course, right
fucking or Ukraine. All of a sudden, But you're not
allowed to do that kind of stuff, right, You definitely
not allowed to be going doing raids down on Cuba
as a private citizen, you know what I mean. So
the whole operation is really strange to me. But I
think there was a lot more going on down there.
I read somewhere like early early in my research that

(44:13):
guys like Dave Yaris were even taken down there to
train the guy's mafia. You know what I'm saying, that
guy's mob, and so he's going down there to train
with c I A snipers, wild stuff. You know, this
is the stuff that I'm really interested in that will
never ever. They can't tell us this stuff. They can't
tell us the depth of the dirt that they've done.

(44:34):
You know, no, they can't.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
And a lot of that stuff is gonna be buried
pretty much. For me, it's gonna be very forever. I mean,
like you know it, it will never see the light
of day. And that's why it might take last week on.
And you made a really good point countering with me
about the files and how I said there was no
important files that were going to be released, and you know,
you said, there's plenty of them out there, which.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Now you know, I mean, I really you know, I'm
on the same side with you there. But when it
comes to the grand scheme of things, it's just.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Like you know, that March stump that they had there,
and I said this last week is just that was
a waste of time that just Cuba and in Russia
left over crap that was.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
On there other than maybe the Hunderhill documents.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
So well, let me make a statement on documents in general,
like documents are they present data mm hm, and that
in and of itself doesn't necessarily automatically connect to anything else.

(45:37):
So you have to read a huge number of documents
to be able to say, hey, this here connect with
this over here, right like I'll give you I'll give
you any example. So when David Ferry shows up in Hamon, Louisiana,
Thomas Compton says, he's driving a light blue Ford Falcon

(45:58):
station wagon. Okay, where else is there a light colored
Ford Falcon station wagon? In the story the house on
Belmont in Fort Worth where David Wayne House got arrested from.
When the cops show up on scene, they call out,
there's a light colored Ford Falcon here also, and that's
the house obviously where two people got arrested, so that

(46:20):
was probably some kind of safe house or something along
those lines, right, So from that you can kind of
extrapolate that after Ferry left the Tippet shooting, he went
to the house on Belmont, because that's when the cops
show up after that and call that out over the radio. Right.
So he leaves there in the gray Plymouth and swaps
cars with the light colored Ford Falcon, which he then

(46:42):
drives to Hammond, which the Ford Falcon is then seen
by Thomas Compton.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
So those that's not going to be in any document,
And that's a conclusion drawn based on training and experience,
right and understanding police reports and that kind of thing.
So you're never documents alone or nothing. They're dots and
didn't do any good Like Jefferson Morley can dig up
every fucking dot in the world, I'm kidding. And if
he doesn't make attempts to connect him to do they've
done nobody any good.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
So yeah, no, no, I agree with that. I agree
with that.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
You know what's interesting looking if you look at the
messages tonight that I've been putting out.

Speaker 5 (47:16):
If you guys take a look at the picture of
Carry Thornley, it's just absolutely just if you squinch your
eyes and you look at the picture itself, and he did,
the guy could be a dead ringer if you know
dead ringer.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
I mean it just it absolutely blows my mind. Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Barbara Reid saw them together at the Bourbon House and
she said that Carry is fun this is funny. He
said that Carry Thornley was always like, you know, he's
a beating it guy. He's got he shuffs the rough stubball,
he's got longer hair, and like he's just always dirty looking. Right.
She saw them at the Bourbon House and he was
all clean cut with a haircut and shaved and everything,
and she said, they look like the Bobbsey twins or

(47:54):
something like that. So he intentionally cleaned himself up. Who
look like Oswald? He had the same receiving Haroline is
that this is another issue. He is about an inch
taller than the Oswald we're talking about, Yeah, and that
that becomes kind of obvious when you start to see
the different descriptions of Oswald. That one inch makes. It

(48:16):
makes a difference. It's really unbelievable. But like all this
stuff through Alice, Texas like after he leaves Mexico City,
he'll go on a road trip with Marina and her
kid through Alice, Texas. While Oswald allegedly a thing at
the YMCA in Dallas. What date would that be? That
would have been October third, But from October second all the
way through the fifth we got numerous Oswald sightings with

(48:37):
a woman who didn't speak English with a child, you know,
So that's where And then you know, when you go
back to the statements of the neighbors of Oswald who
said that Carrie Thornley had a relationship with Marina and
Lee and that they saw him going to the grocery
store and she saw she saw Thornley so often she
wasn't sure which guy she was she was married to. So, yeah,

(49:01):
Harry Thorny lied about all that stuff. He's a really
good lib And when you really dig into Thornley, I
think he got recruited back in high school. He was
a nerd. That guy was like from the time he
was in like middle school, winning science fairs, essay competitions
like you name it, and he won it at some
point growing up. And then he does the Voice of
Democracy contests, which anything with the word Democracy and it's

(49:21):
run by the CIA. This is how it goes. And
so the Voice of Democracy contest, he wins that thing,
and then shortly after that he joins the Marine Reserves.
And this is where things get really really interesting with
Kerry Thorny, because he lied about his real military background.
So when you're in the Marine Reserves, you're just kind
of like near really do much. You show up, like,
I don't know, once or every in a while, and

(49:43):
you just do some training or something, and it's just
kind of holding you out until you get out of
high school kind of thing. That's not what Carry Thornley did.
Carry Thornley during his senior year of high school. Every
single break that he had, like spring break or Christmas
break or whatever, he went and did real training. Once
he gets out of high school after the first year
of reserves, which when you look at it, he spent

(50:04):
a lot of those days any day he wasn't in
school or after school. It's amazing how thick his record
is in the military record. And so the next year
he does like amphibious assault training, like heavy firearms, all
kinds of stuff, driving a tank.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
This is all during the first two years of his
alleged reserve period before he got serious about the Marines, right,
this is crazy to me. Then he ends up doing
three more years. So the guy ends up doing really
a total of five years in the Marines, and he
plays it off like, oh, I just you know, I
went in and did my thing. I got out. Wasn't
for me? Bullshit? Bullshit. Yeah, So Kerry throwing the way

(50:40):
more important way plugged in. He gets to New Orleans.
The first person he connects with his Kent Courtney, who's
a super right wing, you know, borderline clan member, National
States Rights Party, propagandist CIA funded. Of course, he was
putting out all kinds of stuff on Latin America and Cuba,
just like Gaudet was. And so where was I going

(51:01):
with this? I forget where I was going with this.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Oh, I was just talking about well you were talking
about Thornley, but Thornley just in general.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Yeah, but yeah, But so all Thorny's connections in New
Orleans are CIA. After that, him and Jessica Luck they
go out to dinner with Martin mccauliffe. Martin mccaulliffe CIA,
he's a professor at LSU. He connects Thornley, the guy
Banister allegedly over the book he wrote about Oswald the
Idle Warriors. So but yeah, the only people he interacts

(51:31):
with once he gets to New Orleans allegedly February sixty one,
but I think it was more like January sixty one
because I'm now convinced he was the one at bolton
Ford trying to get the you know, the quote for
the jeeps to send the Cuba. I'm convinced it was
Kerry Thornley now because the he has numerous references to Leopaldo,
which is Lawrence Howard, and Lawrence Howard, the pockmark face guy,

(51:52):
was the other person there with him. So I'm convinced
he was actually in New Orleans in January sixty one,
not February of sixty one, and only it's only a month,
but it makes a big difference. But yeah, everything he
did down there, all the people he hung out with,
all connected to CIA. And then he writes Garrison in
like seventy two or four something like that. He writes
Garrison a fifty page AFFI David, and he voluntarily connects

(52:15):
himself to every spook and mafia guy under the sun.
It's the confession letter. Everybody needs to read Garrison's Carry
Thornley files. In there is the fifty page AFFI David,
and it will blow your mind. He connects himself to
Carlos Marcello, he connects himself to Leopaldo Whos, Lawrence Howard
and those guys. We know that Carry Thornley interacted with
Lauren Hall and Whittier, California at one of the meetings

(52:38):
of the National State's Rights Party. So yeah, everybody needs
to read the It's only it's only like three files,
maybe one hundred and fifty pages. It'll blow your mind
what's in there. And it's all a confession.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, and getting back to the Garrison
Sprague files. So when you talk about that, like how it, I.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Mean what volume have you read of that? I mean
have you read pretty much? To mean, what's out there
right now and what's missing.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
There's one document it's about two hundred and fifty pages long.
I've been doing it on my podcast over nine episodes.
I'm gonna do another one tomorrow. It is very frustrating
to me because they met no less than three times,
they had at least three conferences, and there's only one
document from one of them, and it's not even the
whole thing. It's from the first day of three So

(53:28):
the first time they met, which I believe is this one.
They met for three days. We got the tapes from
the first day, only you know, it's like, this is
what I mean when I say we got like the
next we have almost none of Garrison's files none, I
promise you. He was producing a couple hundred to a
couple thousand pages per day and we maybe have I
don't know, two or three thousand pages worth of documents

(53:50):
from him. So yeah, it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yeah, it really is heartbreaking.

Speaker 6 (53:56):
And when Stone actually went to make that movie JFK
nineteen ninety two, you'd have to think that he barely
even got an inch of what Garrison was able to
produce throughout his career before becoming a judge.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, and so after Garrison was Harry Conic Senior, and
Harry Conic Senior like took a torture to those files.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, man, just unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
I just that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
But anyways, you talked earlier about the people in Dallas.
You know, I know for a fact that Richard Nixon
was in Dallas he was quote unquote attending a Pepsi
or a Coca Cola seminar.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, it was. I've heard a couple different things. I
heard that it was a bottling convention. I heard it
was a Pepsi Co Company meeting. I've heard a couple
of different things, So I don't know, but it was
something along the Remember Pepsi Co And Coca Cola ran
drugs for the CIA, right, So it was PepsiCo who
had a fucking plant in Laos that they processed mortening

(55:03):
too heroin, right, But they never made any pepsi So
that's in whose book was that? And I forget that
was in one of the classic Kennedy books.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
So it's just interesting because if you take a step
back and look at it with all those people going
to Dallas, you know, like all those just prominent people,
and then you know, as I mentioned John's wet grade
who got deported twenty four hours after the assassination, the
Sark days, everybody that is chronicle to have been there

(55:31):
at that particular time. It's just I mean, it was
a regular parade for president.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
You know, this thing was absolutely just pretty.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Right, right, and they invited people, they invited important people
to be there, like there were additional mobsters in that crowd.
There were like the Corsicans. So I don't remember if
it was Albarelli who traced this down or who, but
there are FBI documents that show they were tracing specific
known Corsican mafia members who came into New York then

(56:02):
traveled down to Dallas, and they were there during the assassination.
When I hear stuff like that and then I look
at the pictures of the people in the crowd who
are just cool as a cucumber and have never been identified,
it really makes me wonder. So, yeah, I have no
doubts that the Corsicans were there, but see, but if
people were to jump to the conclusion that since they

(56:24):
flew the Corsican assassins in like Hunt said, this would
go to show Hunt's compartmentalization right, because they weren't shooters
at all at all. It's a big red herring. They've
packed that place with people. So when I think that
why they did that was because if the FBI actually
did a real analysis of the photographs and they started
identifying some of these people, it's almost like a message

(56:46):
to back the fuck off, you know what, I mean
they started identifying mobsters and potential CIA people and who
else knows what. Like that's a message. Like when oswald
allegedly goes to Mexico City, there was another Oswald's sent
by Naval intelligence to Mexico City. His name was spelled
osw Ald spelled differently, work for naval intelligence. He got

(57:07):
sent down there to go hand out flyers on campuses
down there, and I think there were anti communist flyers,
but he was down there the exact same dates allegedly
that oswaldt was there. And then there was like other
people in the mix, like U there was like an
Osvaldo or something like that, Osvaldovich Er. There's like another
one that's I got Cuban or something like that that

(57:27):
was in Mexico City at the exact same time. Also, right,
So I have a feeling when they flood the area
with people like this, they're doing it to send a
message to the investigators, because the investigators aren't stupid. They're
going to figure it out and they're going to be like,
oh that's okay, I get it back off. You know.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned the red herrings.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
I mean, I would have to think that there was
at least you know, fifty of them there, I mean,
if not more, just as decoys, I would assume.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Right now, I would assume. I mean, we'll never know specifics.
But when you see like patterns forming and them sending
all other people named whose name sounds like Oswald or
it looks like Oswald, it's obviously to muddy the waters
because they know the FBI is going to uncover that information.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
You know, Hey, mind, ass do you have a question
in regards to uh, Corey?

Speaker 7 (58:16):
I do, Corey, And thanks Tim. So I would like
to just pivot back slightly to Peter Janny and documents.
So something we've talked about here, of course, is identity
transfer really important to this whole thing, obfuscation, red herrings
and so on. So I'm curious because in Peter Janny's

(58:38):
book he speaks about Robert Turnbull Crowley as well as
Gregory Douglas. And Gregory Douglas, you know, is controversial within
the research community, and he's considered infamous. He's been labeled
a fraud. He does have several aliases in the book.

(59:00):
On page three sixty two, he writes Janny writes, it
would seem the elusive infamous Gregory Douglas aka Peter Stall
Walter Storch may have been somewhat truthful regarding what had
transpired between himself and Bob Crowley, but it will never
be known how truthful unless Douglas produces both the Crowley

(59:24):
cash of documents and the recordings he allegedly made of
these conversations. Yet, despite the remaining ambiguity surrounding the Crowley
Douglas affair, the details purportedly revealed by Crowley about Mary Meyer,
her diary, and her murder are solidly supported and substantiated
by other events and accounts covered in this book. So

(59:45):
my question to you is, is Gregory Douglas truly a
fraud or is he a person whose identity was transferred
amongst various names and that he has some legiti tied
to his name, or is he truly just a fraudster?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
That I don't have an answer for you. That and
details on that have not come into my research purview
at all. Okay, I didn't dig into like any of
the very Pinchelmeyer stuff other than the very superfluously you know,
just to know it existed. So I didn't get into that.

Speaker 7 (01:00:20):
Stuff at all, thank you, but it really ties. It's bigger,
and it really ties more to what he had called
Gregory Douglas stating that he had received documents from Crowley
before his death that were internal CIA documents and he
covered them, particularly Operations Zipper, which was tied to the

(01:00:42):
assassination of JFK and the plot that tied the CIA
to the FBI, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and others.
It's very clear, and so what I'm trying to do
is understand, really is that accurate? Because your point made
earlier was that we won't get the full story in
the documents, and some of these documents it's true that

(01:01:03):
Angleton had actually asked him to destroy documents Crowley when
Jesse Jay and I want to call him Jesse James
for some reason, I think give him that way, even though.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
His name but Engleton.

Speaker 7 (01:01:15):
Anyway, that he had asked him to destroy those right
after he was kicked out or whatever left the CIA.
So I guess my question is would it be worth
pursuing and trying to go into the request for some
of those documents related because in the actual statement of
policy that supposedly Crowley wrote the statement of policy is

(01:01:38):
thirty two points are reasons why to justify the assassination.
But after that, there are a list of meetings, conferences,
and so on that occurred from March one, nineteen sixty three,
through a certain November, you know of nineteen sixty three,
and so there are progress reports. They turned over the

(01:02:03):
I guess the dirty work or the wet work, what
if you want to call it, beginning August first to
William Harvey, and he began giving, according to this document,
if it's accurate, progress reports, and those seem to have
occurred verbally, but there may have been something in writing.
If this is indeed accurate, do you think any of
that documentation would be worth pursuing or would it be futile?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
You know, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Just my personal opinion from this all matter, I do
think it's worth pursuing, just because again it Cordy may
have a different take on this, but I think anything
that type of juncture with Crowley. Crowley was a really
important man in the CIA, and I think there's a
lot of legs there when it comes to Douglas. I've

(01:02:50):
been criticized about that before, but I don't give it
down about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
The criticism, I think that I think it should be pursued,
so go ahead for it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
So I can't help but think that all of the
CIA end of things was represented through Dullest and Angleton
and their involvement with Permandex, because from what I've come
to conclude is that Permandex functioned like an oversight board

(01:03:22):
because some of the money was funneled from through CMC.
Right Central mondaya commercial which was run out of Montreal
by Lewis Bloomfield, and we've got staw Arcata, Thornley and
Ferry flying up there, right, You've seen the Lambert document,
and so to me, the trickle down comes from Permandex,

(01:03:45):
of which Dullest and Angleton were members. And so I
can't help but think that all of the actual inner planning,
because that's where clay Shaw comes into this, right, And
so I can't see I don't really understand or honestly,
it's not really too much of my concern what was
going on with the CIA at all, Like it's just
not all the work that morally does. Is doesn't interest

(01:04:07):
me in the least bit, not because they didn't have decisions,
but they were all in on it, right, So to me,
it's it's it's just an exercise improving yourself, right, so
to speak. You know what I mean, because we already
know they were all involved, right, so I don't need
to know the details. That's kind of my perspective. I'm
more interested in the relationships of the guys in permandecks
and the other business dealings that they had which come
into play again with like what was that the Nickel

(01:04:30):
company that they were dealing with down in Cuba, And
there's other things that connect to the Kennedy assassination that
directly connect back to CMC's holdings and permandecks.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
So, to me, the CIA can be completely compartmentalized and
represented by Dallison Angleton on that board, and so obvious
leave all the CIA detail stuff to somebody else. That's
kind of how I look at it from a from
an administrative perspective. Now, on the ground, obviously all the
guys are CIA assets or agents, most likely not employees
other than perhaps not even those guys are all contract

(01:05:01):
so at the actual CIA employee level, like doesn't even
really interest me at all for some reason.

Speaker 7 (01:05:10):
Okay, well, thank you, I appreciate it. I just think Crowley,
as is important in his role, was has taken up
very little space in this whole situation, and I find
that fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Yeah, and his name is actually popped up in in
my uh in my feed lately a couple of times recently, so.

Speaker 7 (01:05:29):
Well that might be me because I am totally intrigued
by this, the fact that this critical, critical person is
just there's just nothing really except something that's out there
written by this man, Gregory Douglas, that's so controversial that
it's he's a broad let's ignore it. So anyway, thank you, Yeah,

(01:05:50):
and touching.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Off that real quick, I'm sorry just reading the conversations
between Douglas and and Crowley, Douglas is heavily criticized because
he is a own to be a toxic nightmare of
a person.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
But when you're.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Reading what Trumble Crawley was talking about in his answers,
they were very descriptive.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
They lined up specifically with the timeline from.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
October sixty two all the way to November sixty three,
and I mean, there's no bullshit to that glory. I mean, like,
I'm pretty convinced that that is an accurate study there
that they had.

Speaker 7 (01:06:30):
So thanks for that, but yeah, just reading about it
and listening to someone reading their transcripts of these supposed
alleged conversations, they're touching on all sorts of things adjacent
and a little bit separate. But that occur in history
later on, you know, because they recorded these things supposedly

(01:06:51):
in the early nineteen nineties, and it's just it's fascinating
to me. And when you listen to it and you
read it, it rings true, the conversation and all of that.
I've done my own types of investigations for my job
with healthcare providers and such and fraud and everything. That

(01:07:11):
doesn't make me, by any means some investigator extraordinaire. But
what it does provide me is kind of that inner,
you know, vibe that you can just tell does this
ring true or not? And if this guy's really a fraudster,
he was a damn gifted one. Not that they're out
there they are anyway, thank you, right, no problem.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah, So, kind of picking up back off that you
mentioned the CIA just angle when it came to like
people still working at it and the residuals that have
came from nineteen sixty three, I mean, like your opinion
about the ground level as you said, I mean, what
type of fields were these guys in are they in?

(01:07:55):
You know, like the posners and the current people that
are that are out there right now. I mean that's
kind of around about question, but I'd just like to
hear your feedback.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
I mean, are you referring to like people like Positor,
Are they CIA? That what you're asking?

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just talking yes, exactly, ground level
CIA that still influences things, you know, like Arlen Specter
with the magic bullet theory and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
You know, it's really hard to say who's CIA because
when you look at how many people they were recruiting
in the sixties, by today, you think they got everybody,
you know what I mean. So I don't even know, man,
I don't know, But I don't understand how anybody could
put out a book and stick to it for the
rest of their life. Whoever gave him that assignment to
write that book screwed him for his whole life, Like
because that book is there a copyright issue if I

(01:08:41):
write a book to bunking his book? I mean, because
like it's such garbage and you come to understand its
garbage when you go through the history of Oswald.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
You know, well it was funny because when he brought
out even off just what what Morley brought out on Friday.
You know, you looked at it and he was just
attacking morally this and that. You know, say what you
will about Morley, but he couldn't He couldn't even make
a case for himself.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
It was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Morley is strange because he appears to be keeping the
the he's swirling the pot, but it never goes anywhere.
You know, it's I don't even want to say it's
incremental progress because it's barely incremental.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
It's like, I don't even know what the guy does.
I mean, he wrote that book on he wrote that
book on Angleton. I haven't read it, right, He wrote
the book on Shackley the Blonde Ghost. Didn't he do that? Also?

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Okay, uh, Shackley was never blonde. So I'm intrigued, and
I got to read the book at some point. But
I have a feeling it's going to go nowhere. You know,
he's gonna present a bunch of dots, He's not going
to connect any of them. That's what that seems what
he does, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Charles, do you get any questions tonight? You're You're on
the speaker, so feel free. Corey's here, so jump on in,
my man, I'm good.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Uh sure, Uh? Why not? Favorite James Bond movie, Corey?

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Doctor no, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Doctor no.

Speaker 4 (01:10:06):
Okay, all right, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
The only other thing I've got, which you know, my
story is a little bit of a different tangent. But
I am looking for a guy that was a CIA
agent that more or less disappeared somewhere around nineteen sixty six.
I mean, this isn't necessarily something you've come across, but

(01:10:29):
he was definitely the South Pacific as a CIA agent,
probably late fifties, early sixties. And then I stumbled upon him,
and I believe he's the Lebanon of the Roscoe White story.
And he spent the next fifteen years, from like nineteen

(01:10:50):
sixty six into the eighties completely in a remote, invisible location,
just basically like he took his money and ran and
hid until things calm down for a very long time.
And I don't suppose you've ever come across anybody that

(01:11:10):
fits that kind of description. And I'm kind of holding
back some of the details. And then The other thing
is I am totally intrigued by the Lazarre guy. And
of course I've been looking for Lazarre for quite some time.
And because that's that guid's in the movie The Man

(01:11:32):
with the Golden Gun, which may not be famrried with.
What I'm saying is that the story of the Man
with the Golden Gun is ambedded encrypted story of the
characters behind the jfkadzsascination.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Oh that's interesting. I've never heard that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
One of the interesting parts about that movie is is
that J. W. Pepper, who is JW. Fritz. They just
sort of mock him in the movie. He is test
driving a car while on vacation. It makes zero sense.
It's one of the things like, why does anybody watch

(01:12:09):
the James Bond movie When they put these things in it,
they're completely bonkers out of your mind. But Lazarre is
in that movie as well, and James Bond says, what
is a Lazarre? It's not what, it's a who. Lazarre
ends up being the guy that actually supplies the bullets
to Scaremega in that movie. But there's some At any rate,

(01:12:33):
I have been trying to understand the whole car test
drive thing connection as well as Lazarre.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Oh gotcha, gotcha? So that's that's actually in that movie Lazarre.
Yeah really, Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
Now. A lot of times they use a double, as
I've more or less decoded most of the James Bond
books and movies, a lot of times they can use
a double, like there's two Lazaars more or less right,
it seems like that, but it's one of those things
where the two Lazars are completely unrelated, but they combine

(01:13:12):
them into one person to sort of double up on
its meaning. But again that's uh, but you don't have
any information about any I would have been like the
third Shooter or the Roscoe White story that disappeared in
six and six. No, wouldn't be the Lazaar, would it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
So the the Roscoe White stuff, like it just doesn't
go anywhere. And when you start to assemble the pieces
of the puzzle around what actually happened in the book Depository,
like when you compile all the statements and you make
and you actually figure out that like things like the
second floor lunch room with a coke story total myth
never happened. That actual incident happened between the third and

(01:13:54):
fourth floors, and the guy they stopped was wearing a
light brown jacket and some sort of collared shirt underneath it.
So when you start to as all the different details
of what actually happened, Roscoe White doesn't come into the
picture at all, Right, So don't I don't buy the
Rosco White story just because it doesn't fit with any

(01:14:18):
of the facts on the ground.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
Well, one of the key aspects of it is that
there are two separate diaries completely and in Roscoe's diary,
and I'm also narrowing down the only thing they have
in the Roscoe White story is the fact that they
named the names Mandarin, Lebanon, and Saw in that book.

(01:14:42):
That's really kind of almost all that they have. The
rest of it is piecing together through what they think
in their theory. The pure part of it is that
then you look at the story of Renee Dosak, you
have these same three people. You've got Renee is Saw

(01:15:03):
and that book uh Target JFK. He his name is
identified as Saul, and he was working with a ex
marine and then a c I a agent, And then
of course you could look at Roscow White and he
was working with a man named Saul. Then he's the
ex marine. But not only that, but you actually those

(01:15:27):
elements play into the James Bond series, the the the,
the whole element there comes with I guess I gotta
put it out because I guess you haven't heard it
is my great uncle. It's sort of the wishing or
the blessing of Donovan worked with the in Fleming to

(01:15:50):
tell the stories of James Bond. They were really within
the files of Donovan's original agents. Interesting and uh, when.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Real quick, I need to cut in.

Speaker 8 (01:16:05):
Okay, So when it comes to your uncle, because I
don't think Corey knows who your uncle is, just give
him a brief description of who your uncle was.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
I'll make a real quick head of AT and T
long lines plant departments. Oh, if you understand what that is.
He was in charge of the shadow government. I hate
using that term, but the AT and T long lines
they ran the continuity of governance, and a slang term
for that is shadow government. He was in that involved

(01:16:39):
building the Bunker's mountweather Greenbriar. He was also involved he
was in charge of National Network News. Well, he didn't
get decide what they said. But take for example, if
we were in war and you only had a CBS
and Mutual and NBC, and you only had resources to
brow cast only one of them because lines are down.

(01:17:02):
So forth he got to decide what station was broadcast.
He controlled the President's phone with the president's travel. He
helped develop the nuclear football. He was also a CIA
agent as well. He worked for British intelligence. In nineteen
forty one, he spent time in a Japanese prison A

(01:17:24):
long story. So the stories of that, that's like a
public side. And he was a help connect the phone
called Air Force one to the waking house. His mother
was murdered and then his mother's funeral was scheduled for
the literal exact minute that JFK died, So he didn't

(01:17:48):
even make it to his own mother's funeral because he
had to stop Curtisal May from launching nukes out of Canada.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
That's pretty crazy. Yeah, I have I have a spook
uncle also, actually he died now, okay, but I had
a spook uncle too, and named Paul Hemenway Gail. He
was personal friends with Donovan. He was founding member of OSS,
founding member of CIA, and he worked at the CIA
station and Iran under the Shah. Okay, interesting stuff. There's

(01:18:17):
nothing on the guy. I can't find a goddamn thing, nothing,
No documents, no, nothing, which tells me he was probably
more important than they want to let us know.

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Yeah, if he was one of the quote did you
have you ever heard the term originals?

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
I haven't.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
Okay, Well, the first thirty eight agents of Donovan he
called them the quote originals.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Oh, no kidding, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:38):
No, I mean, if he was that far back the
original OSS, now right, uncle being British Intelligence and forty
one he was working for the BSc at Rockefeller Center,
and then of course you know that moved on to
create our own agency in June and forty one with
Donovan and Roosevelt or so he was basically there. I mean,

(01:19:04):
I say there he was actually being tortured in the
Japanese president he was there and recalls about that that
transfer from the COI to the OSS, and then further
when he got involved with the CIA in forty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Well, Charles, thank you, thank you so much for your
input on that. We appreciate it. And do you have
anything to add to that choreot all.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Or nope, sure don't Here's something interested me about that
that early era is that like between forty five when
the OSS got dissolved and forty seven when the CIA
came into being, there were like a couple like intermediary
agencies that were there were temporary transitional agencies to before
establishing the CIA. I really am fascinated by what was

(01:19:49):
going on between forty five and forty seven because this
is when Galen organization was operating. They operated until fifty six,
and so I'm super interest and that was initially handled
by army and intelligence before it was handed over to CIA.
In what it was like, it was late. It was
like forty nine it was handed over to CIA, which
is weird because Dulles and Galen were friends. Yeah, the

(01:20:12):
whole era is fast super fascinating to me, the Galen
organization and all their influence because Galen basically helped structure
the CIA, so and he's one of the more important
people from the Nazi era that no one ever really
talks about.

Speaker 4 (01:20:24):
It was the Galen organization that first sent the signal
in the Sprying March of nineteen forty one called the
Pie Circuit.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
When he was when he was the head of Foreign
Armies East. Yes, yeah, yeah, fascinating life. Fascinating life that
I had kind of a weasel kind of turned on
Hitler towards the end, and Hitler got rid of him.
And he was right though, because he was right. He said,
don't go to Russia. Don't fight Russia. That's what he said.
Hitler was like, Nope, We're going to Russia. Bye. It

(01:20:56):
was the biggest mistake Hitler made. That was the biggest
mistaate Hitler made in the war. Well, that not taking
Britain first.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
All right, man, we.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Got a couple more minutes, like do we have any
more listener questions or anything like that?

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
In regards to Corey, but I want to plug his
book real quick. He's a No. One coming up, which
he sent me a rough draft last.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Night, which is I'm looking forward to actually sinking my
teeth into.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
But his book is called.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
A Warning from History and it is an amazing detailed
piece of work.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
Corey. Where can they pick that up?

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
Specifically at Amazon? That's the best place.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Okay, yea, I'm Warning from History by Corey Hughes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
Just in closing, just because of all the things that
are happening lately, your movement specifically Corey is just super
interesting because I feel like you're going to solve this
thing like in a matter of like, I mean, you're
on your way, but.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
How I mean, how long do you think it will take?
I mean, do you think it's gonna to help with
AI or no? No, no thing with future technology? I mean,
how many more years do you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
Think we have left of this to actually just get
this thing out in the open and just expose it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Oh, the only thing that I really want from AI
is to be able to unredact documents. AI can be
able to unredact documents. It could be able to be
able to tell the very fine differences in the black
that we can't see and all that stuff, right, So
that would be very cool. But so my first book

(01:22:30):
is it's basically I tried to identify the shooters. That
was my whole thing, identifying the shooters, and of course
that connects you to the upper apparatus. But and with
my Oswald stuff, I think, what's really gonna end up
happening After I finished this book, I'm doing Oswald and Russia.
Once I get to on Oswald and Russia, I'll do
Oswald from June sixty two to the end, and that

(01:22:51):
I'm gonna I'm gonna have no choice. I'll have to
do a day to day chronology. I'll have to know
every day that what he did, and there really isn't
a very good one of those out there. I think
I'm dreading getting to that actually, because I can tell
that's gonna be this. This first Oswald book and the
next Oswald book in Russia, these flow pretty well because
I kind of have a grasp on Oswald at this

(01:23:11):
point and Russia might throw me for a curve. But
the final book that I do on Oswald himself will
be really, I think, will wrap up all my works together.
It'll wrap up the dual Oswald stuff, the Kerry Thornley
William Seymour stuff, and it will I'm gonna try to
find an answer why the hell he had that American
bakery check stub when he got arrested? You know, why

(01:23:33):
did he have stuff like that? What's that? What's going
on with that? Did he actually have a half a
dollar bill in his pocket when he got arrested? Because
it's conflicting information over that, right. So yeah, there's a
lot of very fine details that I don't plan on
getting to until I get to that book, which will
probably be a year from now. Because this book I'm
right right now, I knocked out like two hundred plus
pages in like six weeks. I couldn't believe it. I
just got to about page two fifty, and I'm done

(01:23:54):
with Oswald's life up till the Marines. And I'm torn
because I'm at two page two fifty. I could put
in another forty or fifty appendix pages have a three
hundred page book, but I feel like it's not a
complete book. I gotta do the marine stuff with it,
and that's gonna make this thing like a five hundred
page book, because the Marines is gonna take at LEAs
two hundred pages plus an appendix.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
Oh yeah, and are you gonna deep dive into like
his associates.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
That were in the Marines with them as well?

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I already know all the guys
he was with in Santa Anna, the guys he was
with in Thatt, Sugi, and Formosa, Like I got statements
from everybody that put him in two different places at once.
Plus on top of that, this is something that most
people don't know about. And I have a feeling this
is part of the whole thing with Oswald. There were
three other Oswalds in the same circuit that he was in, Clyde, Clifford,

(01:24:42):
and Clayton. Two of them are brothers, one was not.
But all three of those Oswalds were in Bloxy. They
were in Memphis. He didn't go to Memphis. Well, he
might have gone to Memphis. We have some conflict here
with the Memphis story. So but we got these three
other Oswalds in the same circuit during the same years.

(01:25:02):
So then you get people popping up, like what's his name, Donald,
I forget his last name offhand, but he was one
of Oswald's supervisors, and he came forward with a story
about Oswald and said Oswald was like a private first
class and he did this and he worked in the
radio unit. But that doesn't match the description of our Oswald.
Oswald was only a private first class very briefly, because

(01:25:24):
he got demoted because he was always in trouble. Right,
So we have these other Oswald stories that are put
forth that I'm starting to think were probably these other
Oswald's Clyde, Clifford or Clayton, who were in the same
circuit that he was in at the same time, right,
So I think that is gonna be that's pretty fascinating
to me, and that's going to be in there. Man.
His stuff with the Marines is crazy, especially when you

(01:25:46):
get to him being in at Sugi and in Taiwan
at the same time. Or no, the Philippines. He's in
the Philippines and he was in a sugi at the
same time because he was there getting treated for not
only anal bleeding but for gone rhea. So I don't
know what he was doing over there to get anal
bleeding and gonerhea at the same time, but he did,

(01:26:06):
and he was treated for a whole like six weeks
or something. Actually it was from late August through October,
So I mean, that's kind of nasty. But at the
same time, I have this, I have the marine diaries
that show that he was over in the Philippines, right,
And this brings us to the Martin Shran story, and
that gets crazy. Holy shit. If you haven't ever studied
the Martin Shran story, Martin Shran got murdered in where

(01:26:28):
was he was in Subic Bay in the Philippines. This
is before Oswald goes to Corregidor. But yeah, that whole
story with Martin Shran that could. Man, we don't have
any documents, like there was a murder. Basically this guy
got murdered, and uh, there's about twenty five pages of
documents on that whole incident. Okay, there should be like
a thousand. There should be one thousand pages at least

(01:26:50):
on a murder in the Marines at peace time. All right,
So it's crazy it got written off as a suicide
or accidental death, actually accidental death. But none of the
circumstances make any sense at all the way he was
shutting done on that stuff. And then Martin Schrand's brother
who's in the Navy, who was also stationed with Martin
Srand and Oswald at sue Big Bay for a week

(01:27:10):
four months later, he gets he falls off a boat.
They don't find his body for a week. Just did
not coincidence. They murdered those two guys. And I have
a feeling that was over the dual Oswald's because the
two Oswald's were both at the same time. There's an
overlap here in the Philippines at Corregador, right, So I
have a feeling that the Schrand brothers. They they probably

(01:27:34):
bumped into both Oswald's and they both introduced himself as Oswald,
and that's why they took them out. So and the
funny thing is Oswald was initially blamed for the shooting Camarado.
One of the guys in the Marines with him basically
started a rumor that Oswald was involved, and then when
they went and asked him why, he's like, oh, I

(01:27:54):
heard that from somebody else, But the rumor ended with him.
And the weird thing about the whole shooting is that
Shrand was on guard duty with somebody. They're always in pairs.
The person he was on guard duty with has never
been identified. And when the body was first found, that
guy went and ran to get supervisors. He said. He
didn't say, hey, the Century was shot. He said, hey,

(01:28:16):
the Century shot somebody. So that other person on duty
with Martin Schrand never identified, not in the documents, don't
know who he was. Was it Oswald? Probably not. He
was probably in the mess hall, And if they were
killing people to protect Oswald's identity, it wasn't Oswald killing anybody. So,
you know, it's a very complicated story and I just
wish we had more documents, but we don't. We got
twenty five pages and that's it. So but I think,

(01:28:40):
I think as a precedent, because you got the death
of Edvi Bell. eDV Bell died in nineteen seventy one.
He was thirty one years old, and he died of
a pulmonary embolism. He was healthy one day, dead the next,
and his father told the HSCA he thought it was
connected to the Oswald case. And because he see eDV Bell,
Edva Bell firmed by a woman named Myra drus LaRue,

(01:29:02):
who knew Harvey Oswald in early nineteen fifty four at Bareguard.
She personally linked Edva Bell as Harvey's only friend. But
then Lee goes to Bareguard the next semester, which to
me is fucking crazy, psychotic on their part to even
try to pull this off. And then Edva Bell is
friends with Lee, and then eDV Bell ends up dead
in seventy one. It's crazy stuff, right, And I'm convinced

(01:29:25):
these people were all killed, but I'm paranoid.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
So no, no, it's it's cool. And like I always say,
I mean, I would.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Call Oswald probably the most this functional Forrest Gump there was,
I mean, the guy is just for.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
His short life. I mean, good lord, he and went.
I mean whether you know General Walker or Eman Kennedy.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Or even back to his marine days. I mean, the
guy was just he had up being like the.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Center of attention somehow in the wrong way, you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
Know, oh oh intentionally when you actually understand like his
behavioral patterns and what was going on. It's all about
the two Oswalds because they were both in the Marines
at the same time, which is wild as shit, wild
at shit. But yeah, that's all That's a man. That's
all gonna have to be in this book that I'm writing. Now,

(01:30:15):
if I get a book that's like six hundred pages
long on that, I have to split it in half,
I'm not gonna have a choice, and I'm not really
not wanting to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:22):
Well, I find it interesting that you're actually going from
the beginning all.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
The way to the end. I think that's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
I think anybody that wants to really find out the
you know, definitive book, not just timeline for Oswald, I
think that something that's you know, chronicle like that is absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Fascinab one thing that people are really going to have
to come to grips with at some point in time,
because nobody is coming to grips with this at all. Yet,
the man who went to jail in the shot by
Jack Ruby is not the man who was born the
Harvey Oswald at all. Not even I think they're brothers.
I genuinely think they're brothers. And I think they're brothers
because of a statement made to doctor Milton Currian when
Oswald was allegedly at youth House and that he's up

(01:31:03):
a whole slew of stuff I cover in my book.
I think you have actually copies of the youth House
stuff right now in the rough draft. I idea that
stuff is crazy. That I mean, New York is wild,
like all the dates conflict. Oswald's in places he shouldn't be.
Uh he never showed up to go to the Trinity School.
He's supposed to be there for like three weeks. The
whole thing in New York is wild. But damn, I

(01:31:23):
had a point and I forgot it. But uh, yeah,
it all, this whole thing with Oswald and the dual Oslo.
People need to really come to grips with that. And
I'm hoping that it's Joe and Needa stuff with the
identity that was the identity transfer stuff that was brought up.
People will come to understand this, and then when you
read my book, you'll be like, oh my god, because
they you'll see that there's major, major gaps in the record,
like big I call them potholes, right, and eventually you

(01:31:44):
get more potholes than road And what are you supposed
to do with that? You know, it's it's uh, yeah,
I mean frustrating.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
No, it's more than frustrating.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
And what you're looking at, I mean again a grooming
program by the CIA, and also again the like a
Doppelgager program that you know, it may not be one
hundred percent Doppelganger, but I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
You're you know, you have many many cases that you
have this going on. It's just I mean, the deeper
you go, the more yeah, dysfunctionally.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
I remember my point. I remember my point. So John
what's his name? His name is Brennan. He refers over
to the NYPD, and then they get John Carrow. John
Carrow picks up Harvey Oswald. We know it's Harvey Oswald
because he goes and talks to Milton Currian and what
he tells Milton Currian locked in for me that this

(01:32:34):
dual Oswald was just a brother who was kept off
the record. And then when you go back to Oswald's
birth date and stuff like, just all kinds of obfuscation there,
and there's no birth certificate. All we have is a
witness to live birth form. Well, what he told doctor
Currian when he's in New York, and he told doctor
Curian this on March twenty seventh of nineteen fifty three,
but he's not supposed to be in custody for another

(01:32:55):
two weeks, which is wild. He tells doctor Currian that
he had trouble with school because when his family they
moved a lot, and when they got to a new area,
his brother, knowing that he wasn't knowing that Harvey wasn't
going to go to school, his brother would go to

(01:33:16):
school in his stead. Okay, that doesn't make any sense
because Robert Oswald's six years older. There's no way a
sixteen or seventeen year old is going to a class
of like an eleven year old. Ever, John Pick's even older,
So what brother is he talking about? And that this
accounts for the similarity, right, But the one thing that

(01:33:36):
nobody can acount for at all is, where the hell
did Oswald learn to speak Russian? Or did Oswald really
ever learn to speak Russian? Because when he went to
Russia he never spoke Russian. The people who knew him
there said he spoke English, but he spoke fluent Russian
when he was at Santa Ana. He would get up
on the mic in the Marines when they would do
like these like variety shows, and he would get up
there and he would read from Russian books. And it

(01:33:57):
was like everyone said he was fluent, like he could
speak perfectly. But then he gets to Russia, never speaks Rusian.
Now I gotta figure that out. What's going on there?
You know? So yes, wild stuff, but yeah, and when
you and I found this in the in the document today.
Actually i'd known about this document for a while. It
was from John hart Eli, a memo about John hart Eli,
who was a He was the guy passed with Oswald's

(01:34:17):
background for the Warrant Commission and he ran into the
duel Oswald stuff all the time. And so then I
had this letter to Jay Lee Rankin from Jenner, Albert Jenner,
and in that letter he says he praises John hart
Eli for like five paragraphs, and then the last paragraph
he says, despite his good work, we're gonna have to
materially omit some of this stuff or change some of

(01:34:39):
the material that he provided to us because his speculation
didn't bore out. What he's saying is, we got to
alter these documents because it tells too much of the truth.
So what does that tell me? It tells me that
Rankin and Jenner they knew about the duel Oswald stuff,
and they knew they had to cover it up, right.
And so when you actually go through the testimony and
you really understand there's two Oswald's and you look at

(01:35:04):
the questions that they're asking. They ask people questions to
determine if they knew the two Oswald's right, like whether
Oswald was right or left handed, because there's some conflicting
stuff there, whether Oswald had scars right, and they're asking
these questions. Subtly, he just stuck in with other things, right,
so as to not maybe tip people off as to
what they're looking for. But once you understand the John

(01:35:25):
hart Eli stuff and how he found out a lot
of stuff that they warn't commission ended up having a scrap,
it's like, duh, they all knew, they all knew. And
then when Robert Oswald's talking about specifically nineteen fifty four,
when he see in nineteen fifty three, he goes to
Opa Laca, which is a CIA Air Force base okay,
down in Miami. It's a small CIA basis where they

(01:35:46):
were in the r Benz operations and it's where Mongoose
got launched out of. He's there in fifty three. He
gets out in January fifty four. January fifty four, he
tells the Warrant Commission he goes to New Orleans and
he stays with his brother and his mother. But they
never pressed him on what address he stayed at. And
the reason for that was because he stayed with the

(01:36:07):
false Marguerite and Harvey Oswald that one twenty six exchanged place.
We know this because that's his original statement to the FBI,
but he didn't say that to the Warren Commission. But
guess what, Marguerite and Lee don't move in there allegedly
until June of fifty five. That's the official story. But
then I got letters from Marguerite ed to John Pick,
who's not in on this at all. John Pick is

(01:36:28):
not in on this scheme, and that's obvious through his
Warren Commission testimony where he outs the fact that, like
the picture of the Bronx zoo not his brother, the
guy he met on Thanksgiving sixty two, not his brother,
you know. So yeah, like, this is the stuff that
keeps me up at night, man, this is the stuff
that gets me up in the morning. Like, this is
the ultimate spy story. It's got everything. He's got murder
and body doubles and everything you want in a spy story.

(01:36:50):
You know. That's why I love this Oswald stuff way
more than the assassination stuff, way more because it connects
to other things that eventually, hopefully will know what they
are and have a better rasp on what the intelligence
community was doing back then, you know, before there was
a CIA.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Yeah, it's just interesting.

Speaker 9 (01:37:07):
I just it's a rabbit hole that just I mean,
you can go as deep as one could possibly go.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
Man, it's just absolutely it's insane.

Speaker 9 (01:37:15):
But well, Corey, I'm gonna go ahead and close out tonight,
but I just wanted to thank you again for your time.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
And Charles and and Lioness and Chop Liver. I want
to thank everybody for coming in tonight. A new listener.
Tonight looks like safe.

Speaker 9 (01:37:30):
Thank you for listening to us as well, Tim, who's
timed in earlier, and Corey, if you have any last words,
feel free to share it, and we're gonna go ahead
and close out.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
Nope, just if you really want to understand my perspective
on everything, pick up my book. I identified all the shooters.
I haven't found any evidence of any additional ones, but
right now I'm kind of conflicted over whether the headshot
came from the knoll or the tunnel. It was one
of the two. I'm kind of starting to lean towards
the tunnel, which would make David Ferry the only shooter
on the knoll. So that I'm still researching. I don't

(01:38:03):
know if I'll ever come to an answer on that one.
But I gotta get back to day Plaza. I've only
been there once. But yeah, pick up my book of
Warning from History. It's got everything in.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
It yep on Amazon.

Speaker 3 (01:38:13):
And again I am Tim Gardner and you guys have
a wonderful night.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
Corey, again, thanks for your time. I'll chat with you
here a little bit later. Thank you.

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