Cory Hughes and Tim Gardner Discuss Lee Harvey Oswald

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome everybody to a brand new Spaces episode. I'm Tim
Gardner along with mister Corey Hughes, who joins us tonight,
fresh office, brand new book, and I'm looking forward to
speaking with him tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
We got Charles Small and some other guests.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
They are going to be chiming in here a little
bit later tonight, but most importantly we're going to be
talking this whole episode about Lee Harvey Oswald. And there's
also a surprise later on in regards to a new
revelation that Corey had talked about on his one of
his podcasts that we'd like to discuss.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Corey, are you there, Yes, welcome aboard and glad to
have you back in. Yes, thank you for having me,
and congratulations on the new book. Yes.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
So, after it was all done and I sold about
I don't know a couple of them, another error, so
I had to go back and re upload. So if
you bought one, you're going to have a very limited
edition error version that has a typo on it. So
the new one is the first edition.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
First edition that'll be worth some bucks someday.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Maybe if you guys don't know what we're talking about.
The book is called in Black and White Volume one.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
The author is Corey Hughes. You know him here from
our show that we've done for the past month and
a half. And uh again please to be joined by
you again, Corey. Sure, and I just want to start
off and uh, I kind of teased it just a
second ago. We'll talk about this later. The in the
Sprague documents that you talked about, we're not going to

(01:45):
discuss that now. But the revelation that you came up
with about the jacket, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, We're gonna
have to talk about that later on, because yeah, is
absolutely mind blowing. It It is when I found out
the trace back on that jacket and I had to
listen to that five times.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Just to was that right? You know? So yeah, absolutely crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
But yeah, man, let's go ahead and get started about
the book, the brand new book. And I know you've
been at work at it for some time and you're
going to be working on another volume or so afterwards,
because Oswald's life is so complicated.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Within the twenty four years he was alive.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Whorre do you like to start wherever you want? We
can start at the beginning October eighteenth, nineteen thirty nine.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, let's go ahead and start with the October thirteenth
or nineteen thirty nine. Let's go ahead and discuss pretty
much the situation he was born into and just his
dad who passed away before he was born and liked
to hear all about that.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, so it's rather interesting. And really, when I study
the life of Lee Harvey Oswald, the one thing that
jumped out more than anything else is that his mother,
Marguerite Oswald, was an absolutely vile, disgusting human being. Really,
she was definitely like a associate path or a psychopath, but

(03:13):
she attempted to give her children away every opportunity she could.
She always cried she was broke, but she never was.
She always had money, like always, she had rental properties,
she had child support, she had money left over from
Robert Oswald's death for many years. And so one of
the themes that popped up was that Marguerite really is

(03:33):
a perfect candidate to work in intelligence one hundred percent
so ar gob eighteenth, nineteen thirty nine. Oswald's born in
the French Hospital in New Orleans. And we have controversy
from day one because Robert Oswald died right so August
nineteenth nineteen thirty nine, Robert Oswald's mowing the lawn feels

(03:57):
a pain in his left arm, like severe pain in
the left arm, goes inside, he's having a heart attack. Obviously,
she gives him some aspirin, but it doesn't do any good.
He drops dead right there on the spot. And the
funny thing is she attempted to have him buried the
very same day. And when the family found out about this,

(04:19):
it was like they totally freaked out. They ended up
not having any contact with her ever again, completely cut off.
The only person who stayed stuck around for a little
while was Harvey Francis Oswald, who was Robert Oswald's brother,
And this opens up many questions into the relationship. What
was the relationship between Marguerite and Harvey Oswald? We just

(04:42):
don't know because when you start to get into the
questions of Oswald's identity, and you know where I'm going
with this, like where and when was Oswald actually born? Right,
Because we're all ultimately dealing with two Oswald's, and I'm
convinced one hundred percent of their brothers as for the

(05:04):
statements made to doctor Milton Currion, Right, So the relationship
between Marguerite and Harvey Oswald is important because there's only
two options that I can see if they're brothers. There's
only two options. One option is that there were fraternal
twins and one was born after midnight on the nineteenth,
which explains the October nineteenth anomalies we see over the

(05:28):
first you know, fifteen sixteen years of Oswald's life. And
the second option, the second alternative, would be that the
other Oswald was born less than a year later and
the father is Harvey Oswald, and that would explain a
couple of things. There are some discrepancies on when Lee

(05:48):
was in school, at what grade he was entered into it,
what time, and it appears at times as though there's
at least once in Covington and once in the York
that the FBI reports indicate that the grade is off
by a year ahead by one year. And so that
kind of that makes me think that possibly that option

(06:11):
number two is the case, right, and that would account
for those discrepancies. But remember, because they had to farm
all these records and destroy half of them, right, and
they didn't do a very good job. So, starting right
from the jump, we have controversy over Oswald's life, but
we don't really realize this until nineteen forty five when

(06:33):
Oswald allegedly andrews the Benbrick Common School. So the official
story is that Oswald is born in thirty nine and
by forty one, early forty one, he's living with Lillian
Murett full time. She's taken care of him full time,
and this brings up the major gap in Marguerite Oswald's
life that we can't account for. So in nineteen forty

(06:58):
one you start to have upkation over where she's living.
She's supposed to be moving into Pauline Street, and then
when you get into the statements of like Lillian Boodaie
the talking about her parents who lived there allegedly with Marguerite,
you run into major conflicts because Marguerite used the Pauline
Street address in January of that year. But when you

(07:21):
talk to the daughter of the couple the Roaches who
were helping out Marguerite, she says they didn't move until
May and that it was their apartment and Marguerite lived
with her. So how would she have that address used
on a document months before she allegedly ever could have
lived there? Right, So you run into this weird obfuscation
over addresses starting in nineteen forty one, and so between

(07:44):
nineteen forty one and April of forty four, we genuinely
have no idea where Marguerite is and the addresses that
she gives during this time period couldn't Number one conflict
with statements she makes to the Warrant Commission about where
she was living and under what's circumstances. But the addresses

(08:05):
she gives twenty one to thirty six Broadway and two
two seven Atlantic Avenue are supposed to be in New
Orleans and Algiers, which is a suburban of New Orleans,
but they don't check out. The FBI investigation goes absolutely
nowhere could they confirm that she never lived at either
of those addresses where she said during this time. She

(08:26):
admits in her book A Mother in History that she
had worked for the Navy at the Naval base in
Algiers and was a telephone operator. Okay, this conflicts with
the statements that she worked for like various shoe stores
or the Pittsburgh plate Glass Company, which has been reported.
And so when you come to understand that she was

(08:48):
a switchboard operator for the Navy on the naval base
in Algiers in nineteen forty two. This leads in only
one direction, and that's to the Navy Waves program. The
Navy Waves program, the switchboard operators were one hundred percent
Navy Waves because they had to be able to handle
classified information and they had to get a security clearance

(09:11):
because they're connecting people's phone lines of high rank who
would have a security clearance, And so the switchboard operators
had to be vetted to the hilt in order for
them to have that kind of clearance. Right by admitting
she was a telephone operator for the Navy in forty two,
she just admitted everything I just said to you without
admitting it. This is not in any book at all

(09:32):
about Kennedy. They completely ignore all this stuff about Marguerite
In every single book out there. The early life of
Lee Harvey Oswald is so like brushed over by everybody,
it's really unbelievable. And then when people come into these
when people come into when researchers get into a point
of conflict between you know, was were they living at

(09:54):
Route forty five or were they living at Vermont Street
in Covington and Smiss forty six? Right like when you
run into these conflicts which happened all throughout the life
of Oswald. They justify why one of those is wrong. Right,
And this is what I see over and over again.
So all this stuff about Oswald's early life gets completely
marginalized and just shrugged off as oh mistakes in the record.

(10:18):
But no, So after nineteen forty five, you have Benbroock
Common School. Do were you talking about the Bedverck Common School.
I don't remember. I've given this talk a lot lately.
So the Bedrock Common School in forty five, and the
trip to Boston where they also go out to Arizona
happens at the same time when she's up there with Ecdahl, right,

(10:39):
And so this is enough. This is really the first
major conflict that we have in the addresses. This is
almost immediately followed up by events in Covington, Louisiana, followed
by a return to Benbrook, Texas, where Marguerite will purchase
one on one San Saba. Right. This is the middle
of nowhere at the time you look at it on

(11:00):
a map, it's like a suburb of Fort Worth, And
it's really back then, it was in the middle of nowhere.
In the forties, it was like just dirt fields in
a couple of houses, and that was about it. And
so the warrant Commission concludes because of the address record.
So they're living at Ewing Street with Ekdall, but she's
not happy with Ekdall because she finds out that he's

(11:23):
cheating on her and he's kind of cooking up with
this woman at this other address. So the official story
is they end up living with him until March of
forty eight, and then they go to thirty three hundred
Willing Street. John Pick testified to this, and he's not
in on this scheme. Robert Oswald testified to this. Everyone

(11:44):
is in agreement. They went from Ewing to thirty three
hundred Willing and then from thirty three hundred Willing. In
July and August of nineteen forty eight, they will move
into one oh one San Saba, Okay. Marguerite Oswald is
working for Lerner's department store and she has a car,

(12:06):
and they end up leaving there once school starts again
in September, and that's when they move into God, what
address was in forty eight. It's slipping my mind at
the moment what address they moved into. But they moved
into an address in Dallas for there, but John Armstrong
went and dug up all the documents around the one

(12:27):
on one San Saba purchase, and despite the timeline of
not having moved in there till two months in nineteen
forty eight, the record clearly shows in multiple documents, mortgage
documents and the Terrant County Assessor's office that she purchased
that place in early July of nineteen forty seven. So

(12:47):
John Armstrong goes and interviews Georgia Bell, who is a neighbor.
He interviews Otis Carlton, who is a neighbor who will
end up buying that place from her eventually, and both
of them tell John Armstrong that it was not eight
it was forty seven that they lived there. And Georgia
Bell knew this because her and her husband had built
that house in June or July of forty seven, and

(13:09):
they said that Marguerite had been there for about a
month before they got there, So she knew her as
a nurse who didn't have a car, who was out
of work most of the time, and one time had
to have a woman up the road drive her over
to a house near Stripling Junior High School. So she
could pick up her nurse's uniform, right, So this is

(13:30):
one thing that everyone brushes over. It's the most important
thing in the history of Oswald. Where did Marguerite get
her training as a nurse? She didn't, there's no record
of it whatsoever. And we have her employment history going
back to nineteen forty two forty three when she first
enters the workforce. Really because she took a bunch of years.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Off, can I cut into place?

Speaker 1 (13:53):
So I have a question, and it's really just interesting
because you mentioned that I'm wondering if actually Lonely and
Morett was the one that actually had the training for
the nursing background, would that be something no possible.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
No, I'm leaning in the direction of its amminth Voitier,
who is a cousin of Marguerite. So this is a
fascinating relationship here because a guy named Robert Duran I
believe is his name, allegedly came out with a book
a couple of years ago that kind of expanded upon
Jarmstrong's work and he went and what I'm about to
explain is the direction that he took it in. He

(14:29):
basically looking at the record and looking at the history
of Marguerite and what her relationship was with her other
family members, that he realized that she was really close
and even possibly might have lived for a short time
with her cousin Ammanth Votia. And when you dig into
Ammanth Voittia, it's not a name you ever hear in

(14:49):
any of the Kennedy literatures. Just doesn't exist. And when
you look into her, turns out that she was born
in eighteen ninety six, So she's about ten years older
than Marguerite, which is about right when you look at
the two Marguerite's one is about ten years older than
the other. She's a nurse, and her entire existence is
boiled down to a couple census records and the New

(15:12):
Orleans directory where she is linked to. She's She's supposedly
living at one address for fifty years, and that's all
the information we have on her. I've got some newspaper
clippings that have a photograph of her from the early
nineteen hundred. She it must have been like nineteen ten,
must have been in like high school, and she was
like on the girls volleyball team and her she was

(15:36):
on the team with her sister, and I guess Her
brother is George Voitier, who is a kind of it
was like a local New Orleans like sports hero in
like high school sports back in his day, right, And
so you have this Voitier family. And the funny thing

(15:57):
is the father of Ammine Voitier is a named Paul Voittier.
He's also got a son named Paul voit Tier who
goes by Paul Polo voit Ta. Paul Polo Voittia was
one of Huey Lung's bodyguards who undoubtedly is one of
the ones who shot him. So Oswald's uncle, second uncle,

(16:18):
was one of Huey Lung's assassins. No one's ever mentioned
that ever, And it was an easy connection to make.
The all you gotta do is go on like find
a grave. That was mind blowing to me. The relationship
between the Kennedy assassination and the Huey Long assassination was
through Oswald. I never would have guessed that in a
million years, but that family. She disappears off the face

(16:43):
of the earth in fifty six, So that's all we have.
And fifty six is an extremely important year because fifty
six is the year that they did the official on
paper switcheroo of Marguerite's. The real Marguerite somewhat disappears after
ninety and technically she would have completely disappeared if it

(17:04):
wasn't for a single postcard that Lee sent to her
from Hawaii when he was on his way to Japan
in the Marines. If it wasn't for that one postcard,
they would be able to deny everything about that the
real Marguerite after fifty six. So fifty six is the
year that the switcheroo happened and the official address went

(17:26):
to the other Marguerite and Harvey's address, and that's the
year that amminth Voitta's official world history disappears. Right, So,
to me, the connections to amminth Voitia are overwhelming. It
needs a lot of like deep document research. Someone needs
to go to New Orleans and like go into whatever
archives are there and dig and they'll find something. And

(17:49):
then there needs to be some exhumations. Exhamations will prove
all of this, but we'll probably never get those unless
we get some grave robbers who are willing to go
cut off a finger or something. Hey man, this theory
of stuff and nothing's off the table.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
This is no no I hear you man.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
You know, you know what's interesting is that you know
nobody has covered the past of this.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
I mean, like, this is really fascinating stuff.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
You know, I want to I want to break down
Actually the beginning of what you talked about, it was
sketchy from the start, Like you said, she was essentially
you know, she didn't want to have her kids like
you mentioned, and she was just an outcast mom. Now
my question to you is is, obviously we know the

(18:32):
CIA started in nineteen forty seven, but you know, was
she part of any like pre intelligence like that back
when Lee was born?

Speaker 3 (18:41):
It had to be. Well, here's the thing, Lillian Marette
is clearly intelligence. Her behavior, her lying to the Warrant Commission.
She got caught by lying to the Warren Commission like
four or five times in her testimony, and they just
roll with it.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
She's like, oh I.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Forgot you know, or whatever. Just plays it off like, oh,
I'm incompetent. And so I have travel records of her
traveling to Kindley Air Force Base in Bermuda in nineteen
fifty four September fifty four with Maryland, which is crazy.
Are they there for six days? We didn't have much

(19:16):
going on at that Air Force base in nineteen fifty four.
It was mostly British troops that were there, and it
wasn't really used for much. It was like a more
of a relay station or something like that. So and
then I got her going to Cuba and Canada in
nineteen fifty five, all while Margerite and Lee are living
there in New Orleans. And this never comes up in

(19:36):
the Warren Commission ever. So there's spooks one hundred percent,
the whole family spooks. And then when Palmer McBride, who
will work with allegedly Oswald at fist Or dental Lab,
John Armstrong will show him a picture of a woman
seated in a chair at allegedly one twenty six exchange place,
and he will identify that woman as Marguerite Oswald that

(19:59):
he met. Both John Armstrong and Partmer McBride got that wrong.
John Armstrong never considered the possibility outside the fact that
there were two people using the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald,
because from fifty five to fifty eight, I have multiple
occasions where there's I can clearly have Oswald in two places,

(20:20):
and then I have somebody else using the Oswald name
like particularly starting in February, allegedly February of nineteen fifty five,
at the Dolly Shoe Company Dolly Shoe Company, it was
allegedly Marguerite working there and Lee working there. For Lee
worked there for ten weeks and she worked there from
like February to October. That's the story. But when John
Armstrong went and talked to everybody, the descriptions of these

(20:41):
people were nothing like either Lee Harvey or either Marguerite.
The woman was described as five seven or five eight
and stocky, like that doesn't match either of them, but
it does match Lillian Morett. So I feel like Lillian
Morrett was so playing the role of Marguerite Oswald from

(21:04):
fifty five to fifty eight. But why, we don't know?
Why is this? Have no idea?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
So why do you think that this particular family, Okay,
this is a really amateur question to ask, but it's
the only way that I can ask it. But why
do you think that this family was actually picked to
go through this long lineage of like doubles and a
line of just like misidentities and different things of that nature.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah, so I have to The evidence tells me that
the CIA likes to work with families. I don't know
if it's a security issue. Maybe it guarantees security a
feeling of security to a certain degree. But Ruth Paine,
her whole family spookes right, and the idea that Oswald

(21:53):
will be placed with her as her basically as an
unwitting babysitter, which is what I think really is what
the deal with her is most of the time. So yeah,
I think that's what it is. And I think it
goes probably back to prior to prior to Marguerite and
her and her sister, you know her, Marguerite's cousin, you know,

(22:16):
the brother of amanth Is worked for Huey Long, Right,
how do you get that gig? Right, that's not luck.
You got to know people. You got to be in
the right circles to get a gig like that and
then to be involved with whatever conspiracy took him out.
You got what circles of these is. This family is
running in very unique circles. And so one thing I'm

(22:41):
coming to really understand is that the the the heavy
hitter in intelligence prior to CIA was naval intelligence, and
they were running massive amounts of covert operations that the
world never talks about because they're distracted talking about the CIA.
And then once Naval Intelligence became n cis you know
it totally, totally, the world just forgot they ever existed.

(23:02):
And I think that's a treasure trove of trade craft
that the world needs to know about.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Oh absolutely, I mean, just think about the possibilities that
this thing can open up if you can learn what
they were looking into, especially you know, pre World War Two.
It's just I mean it blows my mind with you know,
what operations they were looking into and just different things.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
But back to market.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
What I don't like is they were operating here in
America and you're not supposed.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
To do that.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, oh absolutely not no, but you know you saw
what happen in November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
And you know well, I mean even at the jam
wave station running out of Miami as like an insurance
company cover with thirty thousand fucking agents checking in there.
That's disgusting. That is, that's everybody involved with that should
have gone to fucking prison. I'm a strict constitutionalist when
it comes to this kind of shit. That is disgusting
fucking behavior.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Have you ever seen that movie The Good Shepherd before
with Matt Damon. It was directed by Robert de Niro.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Was that didn't have goodwill hunting guy in it?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, Yeah, he's got one line in it. He's like,
he's like, what do you got? He's like, I got,
I got the United States of America. You are all
just about to say that.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, I was just about to say that, And I
find just with what you just said prior to that,
that's such a line of bullshit with this.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
You know, it's just a lineup.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
And that's how they feel. This is their country and
we're just visiting, Like these people are traders. The intelligence
the intelligence community doesn't work for us. They don't work
for America. They work for some global cabal.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Oh I mean, I mean if you look at the track,
you know, especially with like you said, what they do
with families specifically, and like the lineage is what they
do with the families.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
It's just evil and demented. And we don't know how
far this goes.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I mean, like I'm sure you know how further this
goes down, and you know, I don't really go to that.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Particular level, but I mean it's just, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
I don't I don't get into like I don't really
study the KUTR stuff or any of that, but there
have been recently. I saw a video I forget it
was a Jimmy Dore maybe this woman was on and
she was talking about how her father was CIA and
basically got her into the MKOLT program because he had

(25:16):
his own benefit for getting his family involved. You know.
That's like, that's some weird shit right there.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, And I think I think.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Part of it is like they definitely won't tell because
their family is involved, and that will bring an element
of like shame to them, you know what I mean.
So I think shame is a huge factor in what
keeps people not talking.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
And the fact that you know, you could be in danger.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
You could lose your life too, I mean, like if
you piss off the wrong person the agency, you know. So,
but you know, one of the one of the questions
that I did I was going to get into with
you just a second ago, was you said it was
nineteen fifty six right where Marguerite was last officially seen
the real Marguerite was a last scene?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Well, this is where it gets really complicated, because we
have a lot of conflicting information, and to kind of
understand it, you kind of got to go back to
January of fifty four, and so they well, actually, fuck,
now that I think about it, you got to go
back to earlier than that. But we'll start at January
fifty four for the hell of it. So January fifty four,
allegedly Oswald and his mother moved from New York to

(26:21):
New Orleans. All right, they know it is a dead
zone as to where where they're supposed to be at
this time, like nobody knows where there are where they're
supposed to be. They're on the record. They don't show
up in New Orleans until they move into fourteen fifty
four Saint Mary, which is Myrtle Evans place, and that's

(26:41):
May the end of May early June nineteen fifty four,
where they allegedly live for one year. The problem that is,
we have Oswald going to school at Beauregard and I'm
not even joking. There is no official record or official
story on where they're living between Januaryruary and the end
of May nineteen fifty four. There is no official story.

(27:04):
They just brush over it like, oh, but there's no
official story on where they're supposed to be living because
they don't appear until the end of May at Myrtle
Evans Place. However, we have Lear b Oswald registered and
attending Borgard Junior High School starting in January, where he
befriends one of the girl's pee coaches, a woman named

(27:25):
Myra drusal LaRue, and so she kind of he's like,
he's kind of a loner. He hangs out after school
and he's stuck a six around the library a lot,
and she's always there after school doing ther you know,
women's the girls' sports stuff, and so they kind of
become friends, and she drives him home one day after
school to one twenty six Exchange Place. And this is

(27:48):
some time between If I had to put my finger
on it, I'd say February or March of nineteen fifty four,
not exactly the beginning of that semester, but within him
a couple months. The problem is they're not supposed to
be moved into one twenty sixth Exchange Place until June
of nineteen fifty five. So when you follow this kind
of crazy path, you have the real Marguerite and really

(28:12):
living at fourteen fifty four Saint Mary's Myrtle Evans Place,
Myrtle Evans is a friend or hers going back twenty years,
so we know it's the real Marguerite. She also used
to work for the government, and her testimony is also
somewhat dunked, so she's in on this to some degree,
at least she's lying for somebody in her Warren Commission
testimony in regards to when Marguerite actually lived there, because

(28:33):
starting in the first letter that Marguerite will send to
John Pick in New York is May tenth of nineteen
fifty four, right, and she says, well, we're finally back
in New Orleans, but what the hell You're supposed to
have been in New Orleans since January? Right, So we
have that piece of data. There After that we start
to get the next letter to John Pick from Marguerite

(28:54):
isn't until October, and in October of nineteen fifty four,
the return address on the envelope is one twenty six
Exchange Place. However, the official story says they're there at
fourteen fifty four Saint Mary until May or June, and
then we have Myrtle Evan's testimony that she's there till
may or June. However, obviously not because we have Marguerite
sending letters to her real son from one twenty six

(29:17):
Exchange Place. So this complete and total government obfuscation over
why and how and who was living at one twenty
six Exchange Place when, and so after that we have
run into some major conflict because then what we have
is Harvey Oswald and his mother, who I believe is
amath Voytia, who's actually just a caretaker, because I believe

(29:38):
they're they're religious brothers, right, so I believe they're out
of there before October. And this is right around the
time that franch Hata Schubert in Fort Worth at Stripling
Junior High School tells John Armstrong that Lee Harvey Oswald
starts attending school. She sees him there in the winter time,
and he's hanging out with a bunch of his friends
who all have black leather jackets, but he's wearing a
brown leather jacket. And she says the Armstrong that they

(30:00):
used to go right across the street to Lee Harvey
Oswald's house for lunch. And when she points out this
is this video is on YouTube. Everybody can go watch it.
When she points to the house, she points right across
the way and she points to what used to be
two tu to zero Thomas Place, which is an address
that is recurring in the life of the false Marguerite Oswald,
going back to nineteen forty seven when she was driven

(30:23):
by woman who lived next to one on one Sansaba
to get her nurse's uniform. She was driven here to
ju Ju Juzera Thomas Place to get that nurse's uniform.
This address pops up again in nineteen fifty four when
Lee r. Vy Oswald is going to stripling and walking
across street into going to get lunch, and this address
will also be the address that Marguerite Oswald is living

(30:44):
at at the time of the assassination in nineteen sixty three,
under a different owner. So you have three you have
two different owners over seventeen years at Marguerite Oswald. The
false Marguerite is allegedly attached to this one address. Wild
turns out the woman who one of the owners, Mary McCarthy,
was a very close personal friend of Fred Korth, who
was Secretary of the Secretary of the Navy. He had

(31:06):
some big position with the army before that, and that
would have been the time period that all this false
Oswald stuff would have been going on, and he was.
Fred Korth was the lawyer for Edwin Ekdahll when he
divorced Marguerite in nineteen forty eight. So Edwin Ekdahl, who's
a big shot in this one hundred percent involved with
this scheme and Marguerite believed was involved with the assassination.

(31:28):
Fred Coorth also handled Oswald's discharge from the Marines and
he facilitated his getting out of Russia back to the States. Okay,
so there's one guy who worked for everybody. He worked
for John Kennedy, worked for the Navy, worked for the Army,
all kinds of tied up in this thing. I have
no doubts he played a role in the placement of
this false Marguerite at different places, including the Davenport address

(31:51):
where Robert Oswald will purchase in nineteen fifty seven. But
it's interesting because after stripling while Leharvey is supposed to
be going to Boreguard this whole time, which he's somewhat
confirmed to. So ultimately what happens is you have Harvey
Oswald at finishing the eighth grade year at Boreguard January
to June. He leaves the school, goes to Fort Worth.

(32:14):
Then Lee Harvey Oswald, really Harvey Oswald returns in his
place and finishes the ninth grade at Boreguard. Harvey Oswald
will end up at after Stripling. He's only there for
about six weeks, from October to around December that following
second semester. From January to the end of the year,
there's about a half a dozen witnesses who put him
at Monig Junior High School in Fort Worth, and there's

(32:37):
even a photograph of the class. And I think I
see the picture of Oswald, but I can't say for sure.
You know, it's so fuzzy and small and like black
and white. It's just like it's just you know, you're
just guessing at that point. So but I believe a
one hundred percent because of the statement of a guy
named Tommy Brown. Tommy Brown was a friend of a
guy named Randall Reeves who knew Oswald not only at Monig,

(32:58):
but he also knew him at Ridgeley, a right elementary school.
So we have an so he confirmed that it was
the same guy, which is interesting to me because that
means that both Oswald's went to originally a West possibly
at the same time, possibly different times. I don't know
who knows so, but Moaning Junior High School is an
interesting thing because we have proof that Oswell graduated from Bouregard.

(33:22):
After that, Harvey will go back to New Orleans. And
then you run into a bunch of problems in New
Orleans because in February of nineteen fifty would have been
fifty six. Yes, February of nineteen fifty six, John Pick
joins the Air Force. John Pick will put Marguerite Oswald,
the real Marguerite Oswald, who at this point in time

(33:44):
should still be living at one twenty six ex Change Place.
He puts her address as three zero zero six Bristol
Road in Fort Worth in February. But we have confirmation
that John Strong talk to what was his name, the
guy from jer Michelle's who was a shipping company, and oh, no,

(34:08):
two Jakes, the guy two Jakes, and he said, basically
Oswald worked for him right up until the time he
joined the Marines, and he remembers Oswald telling him he
was excited to join the Marines. And we're talking. This
is October fifty six, and we have the transfer from
Warren Easton High School to Arlington Heights High School, which
this is another funny thing because Oswald allegedly goes to

(34:30):
Warren Easton High School, starts, only goes for a couple
of weeks, and then drops out by October fifty five.
He allegedly doesn't go to school for a whole year,
then starts again in September of fifty six at Arlington Heights.
But when Arlington Heights gets the transfer paperwork from Warren Easton,
it says that Oswald attended until October tenth of nineteen
fifty six, right, so you have another overlap right there,

(34:53):
and so they just assumed it was a mistake and
changed it to fifty five. But then when Oswald was
on the Latin radio show on WDSU in August of
sixty three and he's giving his background, he says he
went to Boreguard for two years, which is kind of true,
sort of maybe. And then he says he went to
Warren Easton High School, which he attended for over a year,
which is hilarious to me because while I believe that's

(35:15):
one hundred percent true, the guy who was in that
radio interview is the guy who started at Arlington Heights,
not the Oswald who was at Warren Easton so you
see what I'm saying. He's like, they know what stories
that they're they're trained on the stories, right, which is
hilarious to me.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Wow, But it.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Gets crazy, It gets crazy. So the big hang up
here is why is Oswald, the real Oswald still in
New Orleans until October? If his mother, the real Marguerite,
went to Bristol in February, that's a bit that's an
important question. And so where what does that mean? Where
else could Oswald have been living? Then there's only one place,
and that's at seven thirty three French with Lilian Morrett.

(35:53):
That's the only place he could have been. So Lillian
Morrett had to have been taking care of the real
lead between February and October of fifty six before he
goes and joins the Marines. So yeah, it gets crazy.
So it's hard to answer a lot of questions because
there's so many overlapping elements to it.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
You know, astream audience that that really isn't aware of
this stuff, and their mind's being blown as they're hearing
all this information.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
And by the way, once.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
I mentioned this too Oswald, I figure I just lost
everybody from that point on.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
And that's the reason why they have to read your
book though, too, because it gives them great detail, Like
you know, how this it's you know, it's it's amazing.
When you gave me the rough draft of the book,
I I, you know, I, by the way, it's completely
honored by that, by the way, and just to read
how the detail and everything that you have.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
In there is just incredible. So I want to commend
you on that. But you know, it's just interesting because
you know, I think about this and it's.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Like, okay, So as we fast forward, I mean, I
still want to get back to that question about nineteen
fifty six with Maria with Marguerite, like where do you
think that she went?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
But you can answer that later.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
My question is is that with the dual families that
you have, So like, if we fast forward to let's
say nineteen sixty three, the Jack Ruby that is shot,
did he shoot did he shoot Harvey Oswald?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeh? Did he shoot Lee? He didn't shoot?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Lee's out of the from Here's how I see it.
If you're running a multi decade pre Cold War plot
to get a spy into the Soviet Union, which is
what one hundred percent believe it was, you have two
children raiseduntder the same name, and you only have one
background on paper, it's called a legend. So when they
go and they investigate Harvey Oswald, they'll find Lee Oswald's background,

(37:37):
which is mostly similar, except they don't tell you about
things that there's huge gaps in the record. Like if
you make this chronology, you'll clearly see this two different timelines,
but there's huge gaps in each one. Right, so we
don't know exactly. We have more of an idea of
what Lee was doing than Harvey was doing. For most
of the time, we only get little clues, like here's
a good clue when Lee Oswald, well, obviously it was

(37:59):
Hard Oswald who put in the application to the Marines,
because when he put where he was during what years,
like you have to put what years you're where you
were living. What he put was from nineteen forty one
to nineteen fifty six he was living in Fort Worth.
So basically what he admitted there was that he left
New Orleans and went to Fort Worth in forty one. Right,

(38:22):
that's the only clue we have because Oz the realist,
well live there till April of forty four when they
moved to the Victor Street address in Dallas. So a
great discrive, great example of a discrepancy. But that's all
we have. We have these little tidbits and you have
to assemble them into like a somewhat of a picture,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Or two your book, you're you're going to get into
the military, which I.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
We're not going to push on to that, but what
I want to kind of preview that just a tadbit
with one particular thing.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Didn't people in his unit call him Harvey?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
So this is this is again you get into some
conflicting This is where you get into more conflicting data
because the Warrant Commission knew all this stuff. The Warren
Commission investigators, maybe not John hart Eli who was doing
most of the background up to the Marines, but when
they got to the Marines, the Warrant Commission they knew
what the deal was. And when you read the questions
that they ask people about from Oswald's background, it's clear

(39:19):
to me now that they're they're shaping their questions around
their own verification of which Oswald each witness knew. They're
asking specific questions to determine which Oswald they're talking about,
But they don't let that on to the to the audience,
you know what I mean, the people who are reading
that's not their they're not supposed to know that it's

(39:39):
for their own knowledge. It just becomes so obvious when
you see the discrepancies and you realize they know the
discrepancies and they're navigating their questions around them. It's really wild.
I'm sorry, where was I going with this? I forget
I forgot your questions.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Boy, I'm had a little bit of a brain fart
there to myself, But I I was thinking about I
was kind of actually thinking about my future question.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
But oh, I have an answer for you on the
Marguerite stuff. Where Marguerite went so Marguerite. Like I said,
the only reason we know that she ended up going
to thirty eight thirty West sixth Street and Fort Worth
was because Lee Oswold said to postcard, and that made
it into the record. If it wasn't for that postcard,
we wouldn't know that. However, after that, probably not too
much more after that, she will end up going back

(40:25):
to New Orleans. And the only reason we know this
is because Myrtle Evans in her testimony, she lets slip
that she had just bumped into Marguerite while she was
working at like Coxes or Learners or one of those
department stores, and she was with The era she was
talking about was like sixty one or sixty two, And

(40:48):
in sixty one and sixty two, Marguerite is supposed to
be in like Waco, Texas as a nurse, right, so
we know that the real Marguerite ended up back in
New Orleans, back work in retail. And that's and then
we have a photograph of her from nineteen sixty. After
that we have absolutely nothing. And know what else we
don't have. We don't have a damn statement from John

(41:09):
Pick at all about anything. Nothing. He must have got
sat down because when you read his Warrant Commission testimony,
it's clear he's not in on this thing, and then
had to help. Was he dealing with seeing some other
woman on television that they're saying is his mom that
he knows is not his mom? Right, So it must
have been either immediately before or immediately after his Warren

(41:29):
Commission testimony he got sat down and explained the deal,
because he fucking disappeared after that legit. I think the
HSCA maybe talked to him, but again he was like
at that point, I think he was like, I don't
remember nothing, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So Richard case Naegel like he didn't remember anything at all,
even though he shut up the bank and he had
to go to prison.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
So yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, he's an interesting one because he was out of
at Sugi. Also, see, okay, here's the deal. Anybody who
made it to at Sugi was CIA. This is how
it went. There was not a lot of people out
there at Sugi. The marine that were there that were
stationed there were stationed off on a very on one.
The ones who were not CIA were partitioned to one
little portion of where they of the base where they were.

(42:11):
So yeah, the whole at Sugi thing is really rather
interesting because the big the secret everyone talks about the
secret stuff being the U two plane, right, and how
Oswald might have had access to the U two. No,
at Sugi was there a newer outpost in the Pacific
post war. That was the big deal. That was what
the big secret was. I had nothing to do with
the U two. The U two only actually landed and

(42:31):
took off from there one time. So all to talk
about Oswald and the U two stuff is total total,
you know, fake history.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I remember what I was talking to you about. But
I do have another question in regards to so basically
with her.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Being in New Orleans in nineteen sixty and you know,
I mean, there's nothing that we know post that. So
my question is is that did she have some sort
of CIA protection to kind of like a witness protection
program to kind of erase her identity, to hide her
because of the pending?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Well did it?

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Obviously in nineteen sixty they weren't planning the assassination yet.
But was it something where they just put her under
like a secret you know, protection program you don't in
that regard.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
I don't know, And I it's hard for me to say,
because John Armstrong did an amazing job of digging up
Marguerite Oswald's everywhere. I swear to god he found like
fifteen Marguerite Oswald's or Margaret Oswald's or something you know,
very close to that, and so who knows, I mean,
they might just I don't know. I don't know how

(43:42):
they would have handled it. See this is this is
one thing that I realize is that we don't know
nothing about how these people operate at all. I think
the stuff that we come up with here through our
research is like scratching, barely scratching the surface.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Here's my take on it.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
And this is the reason why I think they killed
Oswald so fast, because I think that because he had
he had stood trial, I think he would have spilled
some of these secrets, and I think that he would
have really damaged a lot of the operations that we're
talking about right now, the doubles programs, the you know,
the family programs that you're talking about, and the grooming

(44:21):
programs up the CIA as whole.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
So what do you think about that?

Speaker 3 (44:25):
So there's a lot of things that all of us
kind of take for granted, and we can't take anything
for granted at all. So a big part of whether
or not Oswald and how deep Oswald was involved with
any kind of operations in New Orleans or keeping tabs

(44:47):
on people or whatever he was people think that he
was up to, you have to It brings you back
to a couple of different aspects of the case, primarily
his alleged diary that's like half English half Russian that
aj Weberman tried to do a translation of and figure
out when he came up with some far out stuff,
you know, like that Frank Fiery and he was in there,

(45:08):
and I don't really like the guy, Like really he
just filled in some gaps on his own. I don't really.
I don't agree with a lot of stuff he came
out of there.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
But it does well, most of most of them. Most
of them do that most you know, just not not
to knock.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Everything right, but there's some stuff in there that seems
pretty valid. He had certain names and numbers and this
and that. But here's this is this is this is
a slew of questions that arise here. First of all
that stuff was found at ten twenty six North Beckley.
That motherfucker never lived at ten twenty six North Beckley ever,
so all that stuff was planted by Kerry Thornley, who
was the one staying there. Okay, so that draws him

(45:40):
the question all of its authenticist, all of its authenticity,
which is weird because they did have some authentic stuff
like camera film that was developed or maybe not see
we have we have to question whether that stuff was
legit or not planted or what the hell? But Oswald
never lived there, so he didn't leave any of that
shit there. So what's the deal with all the stuff
they took up as evidence. That's number one. Number two,

(46:00):
if his diary is half in Russian, did he ever
really speak Russian to begin with? This is a major
point of contention for me that I need to get
to the bottom of because I don't. I'm starting to
think that it's we were sold a bag of goods.
So here's Oswald's history, was speaking the Russian language. There
is no evidence whatsoever that he even attempted to read

(46:23):
a Russian book, or listen to a Russian record or
do anything like that ever until he arrives at Santa Ana,
which he arrives December twenty second, he goes on break
for two weeks and then he comes back, so he's
like mid January. So you have between the middle of
January and September eleventh, for him to become fluent in Russian.
Is that possible? No, it's not possible, especially since he's

(46:46):
not a goddamn genius, right. The guy is like as
average as they come intellectually, So there's no way he
learned Russian fluently in like eight months. But we have
multiple people there who say that he was seen reading
Russian newspapers and that he had Russian records and he
was listening to the Russians, like teaching you Russian to records,

(47:09):
right and so, and that really doesn't even come up
until like the summertime, like April or May, because up
until March he's busy doing training stuff and he gets
sent to youa Arizona, and he sent to San Francisco
for drills, and so it's really not until March, that
late March that all this stuff starts to come up,
with the Russian language stuff at all. So then during

(47:33):
while he during this period, he allegedly goes out on
a date with the sister or cousin of one of
the guys in the Marines, and the date got set
up because she spoke Russian. Also she was like a
Russian teacher or she spent some time in Russia. So
allegedly she gets interviewed. She says he spoke pretty good
Russian for someone who had never had formal training whatever

(47:56):
that means. Okay, and this in even September, This is
over the summer. This is in July, so between March
to end of March and July, with never happy been
exposed to the Russian language before all of a sudden
he can somewhat speak Russian, right for a guy, pretty
good for a guy who's never been trained, Okay, which
is weird. This is a weird anomaly. Then another guy
says that they do like these variety shows, like just

(48:18):
to keep themselves entertained, right, they would just do it
themselves and Russia, and he would get up there and
he would read Russian, and he would read Russian out
of the Russian book, and everyone who heard him thought
that he spoke fluent Russian. We get that statement from
two or three guys. Then he gets out the whole
Albert Sweitzer thing is a fucking CIA front run by
Percival Brundage who ran Air America and ran all the cocaine.

(48:38):
So it's all bullshit, right, It's all nonsense. He gets
to fucking Russia and guess what he does. He doesn't
speak Russian at all. When he's in Russia. All the
people who knew him there said he only spoke English.
What the fuck is going on here? What is going
on here? There's some shenanigans afoot. How to fuck you
speak Russian in the Marines, unless these guys are lying about,
you speak in Russian in the Marines, unless they were

(49:00):
part of the setup. Unless everybody at MCAF, which was
the Marine Control Airfield Number nine, which is not El Toro,
it's a couple of miles from El Toro that was
a CIA base. So was these guys who giving statements
were they in on it? Were they in on it
faking the fact that he spoke Russian, because then when
he gets back from Russia that where he never spoke Russian,

(49:21):
allegedly he's fluent again where he's dealing with Peter Gregory
and Ruth Payne and Marina and they're all spooks. I'm concerned.
I'm convinced. So there's really no goddamn evidence at all
that this guy spoke Russian. It's kind of where I'm
going with this, and it doesn't need more research. But
that's completely where I'm going with this. I don't think
he spoke Russian at all. I think it's another bunch
of bullshit.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Half brother Harvey, I mean, you never know, I mean,
like it again, it just that's where it blows my mind.
It's like, you know, there's two of this person to
that person and then it's just I mean, the stories
go wild.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
On this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's just absolutely and every time you pull it through,
I swear to God, I've said this before. This is
like where the This is like the edge of the matrix.
This is like where the matrix is scrambling, you know,
to keep itself intact. And the deeper you dig, the
more crazy you find. It is wild. It's you know,
there's a theory that and it's just a theory and

(50:14):
it's crazy, but there's a theory that the future can
rewrite the past, and that the past does change based
on future events. And sometimes when I'm studying shit, that's
exactly how it feels like. You're untangling this not that
never ends or going through a tunnel that keeps going.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
You know, I can agree with that.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
I mean, can you also explain why why time seems
to be going a lot faster nowadays? And I mean,
it's not because we're getting older, it's I'm telling you,
it's like time. I'm not the only one that's that
says time is going faster. It feels like time is
just flying right now.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
And it does. I mean, we're in the seventh month
of goddamn twenty twenty five. It's gonna be Christmas. They're
gonna You're gonna see Christmas ads in like two months.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just crazy. It's like where did it
all go? You know, And it just seems me.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I don't want to get all conspiratory, but since twenty twenty,
it seems like things have really changed, like upticked a lot.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
You know, that's just my perspective. You know, I'm not
a big experience.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Hey maybe the world did end in twenty twelve. Of them,
we're just living in some ghost.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
World, yeah, disturbed reality. I was.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
The older I get, the less I'm not into this.
Like my roommates are all like into the hippie woo woo,
you know, they put their water on copper plates and
stuff because of the energy, and I'm like, you guys
are weirdos. Right, I'm not into any of that stuff.
But the older I get, the more I'm open to
crazier possibilities. That's for sure.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
I mean, like I would probably when I was nineteen
years old, I was probably the most liberal person you'd
ever meet, but that that has changed over the years.
I mean, like I've turned you well, we don't need
to go into politics, but one of my question was
like that what we kind of took a brain fart
on was when Oswald was in the military, people, I

(51:56):
told you that there was recollections that I heard that
people were calling him Harvey.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Right right, Okay, yeah, so that situation. That's another interesting
thing because they were calling him Harvey, not it was
his middle name, right, but because it had to do
with the movie Harvey with like the imaginary bunny in it.
You remember that, So that was that's the reference to uh.

(52:26):
And the funny thing is, you know that that was
the real lead because everyone they would call him Harvey
and it would piss him off. He hated when Neil
would call him Harvey. Hated it. So definitely not the
Harvey who introduced himself to everybody who knew for his
whole childhood as Harvey, right, Because that's another thing. In

(52:47):
my book, I show six different incidents where he is
introducing himself as Harvey to people. Six and that's not
even all of them. And that doesn't even include all
the documents. I included about fifty pages of raw documents
that show the official usage of Harvey Lee Oswald by
everybody Secret Service, Defense Intelligence Agency, CIA, FBI, customs you

(53:12):
name it.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
So let me ask you this. Okay, So if Lee
Harvey Lee right, Lee was in the Marines.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
What was both of them? They were both of the Marines.
This is where it gets crazy. They both have they
both have pictures in the Marines of clearly two different
people who are alleged to be the same person. Here's
some Here's some interesting stuff because part of the record
is Harvey's and part of its Lee's. And we know
this because we have statements of a guy named Alan Feld,
who when John Armstrong got around finding him, took took

(53:41):
John Armstrong years to find this guy Alan Feld, who
basically Alan Feld told the FBI he went to Camp
Pendleton and was in basic training and comp basic combat
training with Lee Harvey Oswald, and then after that they
went to Memphis, Tennessee, where they went through airline mechanic school,

(54:02):
which is really interesting because there are several references to
Oswald having been an airline mechanic. But what is Oswald's
real job supposed to have been?

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Radar Operator's right, but he wasn't a radar operator. That's
bullshit too. When you dig into the when you really
dig into it, to be a radar operator in the
fucking Marines. You had to do the thirty three weeks
At Biloxi. Oswald took the six week course. He was
a plotting board operator. The closest he ever came to
a radar unit was as a plotting board operator. So

(54:33):
he didn't even have people talk about he was gonna
give radar codes to the Russians. He didn't even have them.
He was the guy who stood at the clear board
and the radar people would call out coordinates and he
would mark them on the clear board. That's what he did.
And honestly, he didn't even do that most of the
time because he was either in the brig, the hospital,
or in trouble where he was put on admin duty.

(54:56):
That guy did more nights on either guard duty or
working in the mess hall than he ever did working
in the freaking radar the radar unit. Ever, like that
guy was constantly in trouble, and that's when you run
some real problems like Oswald shot himself allegedly. This is

(55:18):
where it gets really interesting. Well, it's all been interesting.
It's actually the most fascinating thing I've ever come across
in my whole godamn life is why.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
I do it?

Speaker 2 (55:25):
But the Twilight Zone.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
This is.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Twilight Zone. Yeah. So Oswald shoots himself in the left
above the elbow on the back side of the you know,
the left arm, right.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
And.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
He ends up from that, he ends up having surgery.
He's basically in and out of the hospital for like
six weeks. And what was gonna happen was originally he
was like within two days of when he shot himself,
he was supposed to be put on a boat and
that boat was going to go to It was either

(56:05):
Taiwan or the Philippines. I always get those two mixed
up because that's the two other places that he ends
up going. So he's supposed to go on this boat
like two days after this, right, So he shoots himself
and he can't get on the boat, right, So he
basically stuck there for I think it's like four or
five weeks, maybe six weeks. But then he after that,

(56:25):
he's stuck on a boat again and he's going he's
sent to the place where he would have been sent
the first time. So it made me wonder, why the
fuck would he do that? Why would he intentionally try
to get out of getting on this boat? And then it.
And then it hit me that when I went through
the payroll records, because the duty roster on where Oswald
is supposed to be as per the official record, totally

(56:48):
conflicts with the payroll records. The payroll records also indicate
changes in duty roster and where you were sent and
this and that, and the numbers of the dates are
totally different. Right like, midway through a time will we
know that he was at Corregador. It's saying that he
was taken out of Corregador and sent back to Atsugi
on the pay records when it doesn't say that on
the duty roster. Right, So what are we dealing with.

(57:09):
We're dealing with Oswald in two places. Again. Again, it's
a never any theme. It does never end. There's no gap,
whether ever in one place. Once this thing starts, it
never ends. So this time period when he's allegedly in Corregador,
this overlap, but I have him leaving there on a
certain date, and this when I have them both in Atsugi,

(57:31):
we're actually one in Corregador and one on his way
back to Aksugi. This is the exact time period, late
fifty seven, early fifty eight when we have the Palmer
McBride stuff at Fister Dental Lab. Right, So I got
both Oswald's in Asia clearly proven through the payroll records
of conflicting payroll records with the duty roster and combined

(57:51):
with witness statements and other things. And then you got
the slew witness statements. Who knew Oswald in New Orleans
at the same time at Fister Dental Lab. And Oswald
wrote a motorcycle But guess what. Oswald never owned a
motorcycle ever, there's no evidence he ever owned road or
anything had anything to do with the motorcycle. But the
Oswald who worked at Fister Dental Lab, who at this
point in time, I'm pretty convinced it was John Marshall Morett,

(58:12):
Lillian's son, And I'm starting to think that these were
maybe practice runs.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Oh but Lee in Okay, So the Lee in Texas
did not have a driver's license. He only identification.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Uh, so that's another that's another point of contention. He
didn't There is the driver's license that allegedly turned up
years later. But the person who had the Lee Harvey
Oswald driver's license is the same person who went to
the Jiffy store and bought beer and peanut brittle the
morning of the November twenty second, Right, So the Oswald
is seen at the Jiffy store where he buys he

(58:48):
buys beer, and then he comes back in a couple
of minutes later and he buys peanut britle. That guy
who is at the Jiffy store, I forget his name offhand.
He got the ID from Oswald and he even confirmed
his name was Lee Oswald, and he thought it was
a good Jewish name, and that he thought the birth
date was in October thirty nine. So whoever it was
carry Thornley who had the ID used it that morning

(59:12):
at the Jiffy store. Right, So if carry Thornley had
the ID the whole time, which I'm pretty convinced he did.
And remember, I don't think that those pictures. I don't
think there were pictures on driver's licenses. Then there was
like a long time when you didn't have a picture
on a driver's license, So I don't I don't know
if that was the case in sixty three. You got
to assume going back to like sixty two was when
it would have been issued. So because yeah, because Oswald

(59:33):
didn't come back from russiaun till June of sixty two,
so it would have been between June sixty two and
November that they would have had to have that taken, right,
But carry Thornley was impersonating Oswald all over the place.
He could have used that ID in multiple places, you know.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
So yeah, it just we're barely scratching the surface on
this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Oh my god, you know, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
I was thinking about the mainstream listeners that will be
listening to this podcast later on. They have the question
about him being a proficient sharpshooter in the military.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Obviously, you and I know that's both.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Yeah, but explain to the people that are listening to this,
that listen to the Warrant Commission or the gyro posners
out there that that claimed that he was a proficient
sharpshooter when.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
He couldn't even finish six weeks of training.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Right, So the sharpshooter thing is kind of funny because Oswald.
So there's there's we go with more conflicting information. There
are two official tests that Oswald took. There's three ranks.
One of them is like you know, you're awesome, and
then you're okay, and then you're like barely barely passing, right,
Because you can fail a test. It's not like if

(01:00:46):
you get the lowest grade you failed, you have to
get a minimum level.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
So one time he got the minimum level, and then
the other time he got the second level, which was
in the middle. Right, So at no time did he
get any like expert or anything like that. He basically
did the bare mint of what he could do to pass.
And that's how he was for everything, And to be
honest with you, I think that was all on purpose.
I think his hit everything, particularly starting when he gets

(01:01:11):
to Santa Anna, his whole being a fuck up thing
is all intentional. One intentional to part part of the
legend that created, you know, when they got when he
got out of the Marines to go to the Soviet Union.
Because I don't know how, but the Soviets have the
inside scoop on that stuff. I mean, do you think
there's any information that they can't get? I don't think.
So they got spies or something, or they intersect something,

(01:01:33):
They got ways of accessing everything, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Think the first episode or the second episode that they
have shit over there that we can only even think
about having, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Like for for intel. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
So yeah, dude, I I just that never really especially
from him.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
You know, obviously they talk about the book depository. You know,
you don't think that he was there. I have my
questions if he was there or not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
And the thing is, is even making that shot from
the window like that and having the trajectory for Kennedy's
head to be, you know, obviously go the way it
did and whatever that that in itself would have to
be such a great sniper shooter, like he would have
to be like an all class, all world type you know,
sniper shooter in order to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
And it's really good that you corroborated.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
The fact that he was just a bare minimum you know,
but like you said, it could have been on per
I mean, like it was probably.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
His attitude was, see this is the weird thing, and
we look, this is where we come back to getting
two different descriptions of the same of the same guy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
So, a lot of the guys who knew him and
at Sugi said that he kind of kept to himself,
but he would go out and he'd have a couple
of beers and he kind of loosened up when he
had a couple of beers in him, and he was
he was just one of the guys, and he didn't
talk about politics. Some of the guys who knew him
said that they didn't think he would ever talk about
politics because he was just kind of a you know,

(01:03:05):
he was just like whatever, you know. And so a
lot of people who were interviewed after the fact were
absolutely shocked at the entire thing, and most of them
instantly thought that it was some operation because they're like,
there's no fucking way this guy he affected to the
Soviet Union and speaks Russian into the Communist not not
the guy I knew, you know, not at all. Right,
So yeah, you start getting these conflicted descriptions of people.

(01:03:30):
Primarily the difference is really when he gets back from
Atsugi to to Santa Anna, you know, and then you
got sandwiched in there, you got the death of Martin Shrand,
which one day I really got to do like a
full thing on the death of Martin Shrand, because it's
very intricate, but we're missing everything, Like that guy died.
He did he allegedly accidentally shot himself. But when you've

(01:03:52):
come to understand the manner in which the gun and
how far the gun was away from him, the angle
that it was at one hundred percent impossible for him
to have accidentally dropped it and it shot him. One
he was murdered, and his brother was murdered a couple
months later, who was in the Navy, ends up falling
off a boat. They don't find him for like a week.

(01:04:12):
And so you got two brothers who happened to be
stationed in the same place where there's an overlap. From
what I can tell, there should be an overlap, or
perhaps not an overlap, but perhaps these guys about the
two Oswald schemes somehow, because one of the Oswald's was
a corregador and the other was at Subic Bay, two
different parts of Philippines when this was going on. And so, yeah,

(01:04:37):
one hundred percent convinced they were murdered to keep quiet,
just like ed Va Belle souh. That's a very important
story and that's nothing that everyone, anyone ever talks about.
And it's so crazy because when you dig into those documents,
there's so much missing, so much missing. Like I'm an
ex cop, I've seen what a homicide report looks like.

(01:04:59):
It's like twelve hundred pages long. It's fucking massive. The
report that we get from the death of Martin Schrand
in the military and in peacetime, you know, we get
like twenty pages. I'm like, are you kidding me? And
we don't have a statement from Oswald at all? And
the first person to start spreading rumors about it spread

(01:05:21):
rumors that Oswald was involved. So what would have had
to have happened in any investigation? They would have absolutely
gone and talked to Oswald, even if he was like
working mess to he had nothing to do with it,
They would have gone and talked to him just because
his name came up. Do we have a statement from Oswald?

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
Do we have anything regarding that they ever talked to Oswald?

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
So we're missing everything, right, We're missing everything. So frustrating
because once you come to understand how much is missing,
you're like, holy fuck, we got nothing. We got nothing,
Like of all the goddamn documents we have, we have
like two or three percent of what has been generated
over the decades.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Literally that actually did I want to segue into a
real quick version that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Will come back to the book.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
But the whole hoopla about this Joe and Ed saying
and you met and what's really great about is that
you you chimed in, and I really love your point
of view about this. But my point of view is
is just before you get your take on it, is
that while it's great that they have, you know, documentation
that there was communication with Oswald prior to the assassination,

(01:06:25):
I mean, whook the fucking do? I'm sorry, it doesn't
really even scratch the surface on like the whole scenario
of this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
I mean, like what I mean. And apparently Morley had.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
A community form the other night and he basically said,
you know, if you guys want to go, you know,
ask Luna questions and and try to force you know,
Luna to look at certain things, you know, go ahead.
But as for this, I'm good now. I mean, it's
just like, okay, well you're done. After the joan Eda
sing like you're you're that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
You know, some gained any traction, I mean, like, what
the fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
All right? So he gave us this alias, and this
alias was connected to which group was it? Was it
Friends of Democratic Cuba or was it one of the
other ones? Because I know David Atlei Phillips was connected
to Friends of Democratic Cuba, but David Atlei Phillips. No,
one never put him in New Orleans. So that's an
on paper connection only he was the CIA employee who

(01:07:23):
handled the contract agents who were handling that. That's kind
of how I see that. That's not what somebody like
a Joe and Edis would have done. Joe and Nitis
was the head of psychological warfare for JM Wave, which
means he created propaganda. That's what he did. You know
who his contact would have been in New Orleans, William Gauday.

(01:07:44):
William Gauday is at the top of the list for
people who would have had contact with him and his organization,
because that's what William Gauday did. He ran the Latin
Latin American Report, which was purely a CIA magazine propaganda
that was distributed about what was going on in South America.

(01:08:07):
It's wild, It's really wild. He definitely real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Corey, I'm sorry I interrupt you. So what you're saying
is that's pretty much a line of bullshit. So his
contact wouldn't have been Harvey Oswald. It would have been
Good Day.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
It would have been god Day, or if God Day
had a boss in New Orleans. But god Day talks
about he had a boss in New Orleans, but he
never identifies him, and there was a guy that he
would go and see him, but he never mentioned who
he is. So yes, that's a question. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
So with the March release of the files and the
complete BS that I mean, it's literally it's fodder.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Yeah, that's the same thing, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
It's just literally the same like pattern thing right where
it's just what they produced out there with that information
about the Joni he's talking to Oswald or having an
alias talking to Oswald, it's basically just a bunch of.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Yeah, if people are connecting dots that don't exist, so
to be to be really clear, like there is no
record or first off, that alias of Gebler, is that
that the name Howard Gebler? Was that the name that
has never that has never come up in any document
I've ever read about New Orleans. Never, not in garrisons files,

(01:09:23):
not in FBI files, nowhere. So does that mean the alias?
Does that mean he could have been using a different alias?
Of course, just because he got one alias doesn't mean
these guys would have different aliases for different places. So
does no he could have had another alias, right, But Ultimately,
all the names that we see have been tracked down
and talked to by the FBI, garrison or whomever. Right,

(01:09:44):
So it's it would be an unknown unknown right to
have anyone outside of that sphere, which I'm sure there's
a ton of unknown unknowns. But no, if you want
to talk about New Orleans and you want to talk
about the CIA, you people should the most obvious players there. Well,
once you get past Banister, who obviously was naval intelligence
before anything else, but their relationships kind of act in

(01:10:06):
the layers, right, you can kind of be on loan
to the CIA or have mutual interests, right, But Banister
was naval intelligence, Oswald was naval intelligence. But the names
you should focus on in New Orleans the guys who
I'd need to dig into more, who are key players,
or guys like Martin mccauliffe. Carrie Thornly comes to town,
the only people he associates with turn out to be

(01:10:28):
CIA agents. He didn't know it, but Martin mccauiff is
introduced to him by I think Jessica Lucke or Genie Hacker,
one of his girlfriends, and allegedly they're meeting over his
book The Idle Warriors, right, which he wrote about Oswald,
you know, like three years before the assassination, so, which
is hilarious onto itself. But Martin mcauoff connects Kerry Thornley

(01:10:52):
directly to Guy Banister, and so that's a major player.
That's a major move because then the assassination, Who are
the major who are the three major guys organizing the assassination?
You got David Ferry and you got Clay Shaw, right,
and so Kerry Thornley and so yeah, that's that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Those are the three big guys the Perry Russo story. Right,
Once you realize that it wasn't Oswald, that the Perry
Russo party in New Orleans, and that it was Kerry Thornley,
the whole goddamn assassination falls right into place. The whole thing.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
Hm.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
That's the key, that's the hugest piece of the puzzle
there is in New Orleans.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Hmmm.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Because what they they talk about, they talk about triangulation
of crossfire. They talk about an alibi. You have to
be simpere where many people can see you, which is
exactly what David Ferry said to Thomas Compton, who said
that to Frank Cholona, who said that to the goddamn FBI. Right,
So that that and that party was so important, But
it only makes sense once you realize it was Kerry

(01:11:55):
Thornley and not Oswald. And then then everything makes sense
with Kerry Thornley impersonating Oswald, tip of shooting, the everything,
the whole night, the whole kit and kaboodle, the stuff
in Alice Texas, the stuff at Furniture Mark, it all
falls into place once he realized that the Oswall at
the party was Kerry Thornley and that he was doing
all the impersonation stuff him and William Seymour, who was

(01:12:15):
doing a huge chunk of it too. But yeah, that
party with Perry Russo so crucial, and what they do
in the movie. They they flubbed over it and it
wasn't in Perry Russo anymore. It was some some some
male prostitute named Willie O'Keefe, right, Yeah, the major player,
the major part of the story. They had to obfuscate.
Same thing with Ruth Payne. She was Janet Williams, right, hilario. Yeah,

(01:12:38):
it's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
What's interesting though, too, I mean, just a quite quick
side note is that you know, the real Perry got
his last name Serry Ruskerry Russo he was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
In he was actually in the beginning of the movie
of JFK.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
So it's really weird why they wouldn't put his character's
name in that film.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
That is interesting, Yeah, that is interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Yeah, because he's in the bar he calls Kennedy that
son of a bit.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
I didn't I didn't make that connection until you just
said it, but that's yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah him, he's in the very beginning of it. And
it's just interesting why.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
I mean, I get why, you know, Ruth Payne will
sue anybody at will. She's the type of lady that
if it doesn't fit her narrative, she's gonna sue anybody
or she'll you know, hell, I mean Ted Yakouci tried
to have an interview with her, and like he had
to go through like tests before, you know, he didn't
get an interview with her. He just said fuck you
pretty much, you know, because she was just being so difficult,

(01:13:35):
So because he believed obviously that she was a CIA asset,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
You know, but anyways, Yeah, I just just boggles my mind.
And you're absolutely right that the New Orleans ties in
this whole thing. It does fall into place.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
And then then you gotta look at Thomas Beckham and
the statements Thomas Beckham made to the HSCA which everyone
overlooks to about how he met with David Ferry and
Roswell Thompson and Anna Berglass and a couple of Cubans
and Vincent Marcello and they gave him a package, and
he delivered the package to mister Howard at the Executive

(01:14:11):
Inn in Dallas, right, And he gets in Lawrence Howard, obviously,
Lawrence Howard being the shooter in the sniper's nest, the
dark complected man with possibly a Cuban who had a
something marked on his face, as per Arnold Roland, right.
And so all these pieces of the puzzle fit perfectly together.
So Thomas Beckham is in the connection is another connection
from New Orleans. And Thomas Beckham is photograph at the airport.

(01:14:33):
I don't know if you've seen that picture, but Thomas
Beckham is walking in the background of that photo of
Kennedy driving out of the airport with all the photographers.
So Thomas in his statements about Lawrence Howard and delivering
to him a package and some money, and then Lawrence
Howard gets mad. He says he's driving in the car
and he pulls over the car. He's like, this can't
be all they sent you with because he only brought

(01:14:55):
him like a map and like a couple of notes
and some money and that was it, and he was
expecting a lot more. He to this right to the
HSCA and that he has no reason to lie, and
everything he said is I completely corroborate with my other research.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
You know, it's really interesting because I brought up a
point a couple of days ago on my timeline about
you know, if it was just a basic parade, you know,
you wouldn't have you wouldn't have had all those assets there,
those CIA assets and different people witnessing that. I mean,
there wouldn't have been anybody there of intelligence other than
the Secret Service covering that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
I tell you this was the fact that this is
what brings me to the and I always kind of
shunned this for many years, but this brings me to
the you know, it was a ritual, and these guys
are all secret society guys, whether that's on the surface
or not. You know, I keep I keep finding this
naval intelligence connection to the Scottish Rite and connecting that
to the Oswald story, which is fucking wild. So yeah,

(01:15:49):
I'm starting to start I'm starting to give more credence
to the uh OR. I'm starting to come to understand
a little bit more of the role of the secret
societies at play.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Right, Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
And the more that you hear about these secret societies
that are out there, I mean, the more it really
does line up. I mean again, Corey and I are
not conspiracy guys. Were just going off like what what
what we you know what we see, especially if you
dive into I mean so before I met Corey everybody,
I didn't understand the whole level aspect of the you know,

(01:16:23):
the duplicate program that all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
What I learned from Corey about a lot of this stuff,
it just blew my mind. I almost start going and
seeing the deeper I went into this.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Dude, I've been there for years. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Yeah, And here's here's a crazy thing. I know with
certainty that all the data in my new book is
like accurate. There's clearly two Oswald's. But every time I
talk about it, I I WinCE to myself, even to
this very day, It'll always sound crazy to me, no
matter how much evidence there is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
We're gonna have Charles small joints here in just a
bit because I know some stuff to ask you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
But it makes sense to me though. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I mean I do once a little bit too.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
But at the same time, after after learning about Marguerite
Oswald and after learning about these different you know, you know,
obviously the Mexico City siding of the different Oswald, and
you know, that's always been such a big thing with
the mainstream researchers that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Are out there. They always keep talking about you know that,
and they.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Keep talking about that all the time. But that that's
just like one little sliver of like this whole story
that your book covers.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
Yeah, so I obviously very frustrated with the state of
Kennedy research, and like I try so hard to like
tune into a podcast and just listen to what they're
talking about, and I'm like, oh my god, they talked
about this stuff in nineteen eighty four. What is going
on here? This is forty year old research. It's like
it's almost like they're still trying to prove that there

(01:17:54):
was a conspiracy to begin with. That's like, that's still
their point. It's like in past it, right, And so
that's why I'm frustrating all the information that comes out
because it's already known or obvious or we should have known,
or it's nothing new, and it's definitely nothing that's going
to lead us closer to Hoopol those triggers.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
I mean, well right now, especially because with the house
closing down two months, I mean, there could be so
much more information that you can present to Luna to
actually have people testify and give their Like, I was
kind of that I told you our first interview. I mean,
I don't give a damn if you put Jered Posner
up there. Just put everybody up there to literally.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Give their point of view about something, and then by
process of elimination if it doesn't make any sense, you know,
weed them out and then stick with it. But stick
with the story that actually connects the dots.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
So I've set So I had a bunch of people
buy my book on Amazon and send it to Luna's office.
I know that she has received no less than four
or five copies of my book.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
That's awesome, man, did she read it?

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Of course not, of course not. I don't know what
the deal is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I mean, if she did, man, she would totally.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
I mean again, I was there'll bej guy there for
a while, and then I just was like, Okay, that
doesn't make any sense because he didn't have enough power
to really overthrow things.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
So you know, his power came from his money, like
that was it, Like you could put a dollar abound
on it. He had three hundred million dollars when he
was in office, the most. He was the richest president
we've ever had. And most people don't realize that. And
so when you realize that that's where his power came from.
It didn't come because he was a political powerhouse. It

(01:19:40):
came from his money. That's a totally different story, you
know what I mean, That's a totally different crowd of people.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
So, you know, and when I think about this too,
I mean, like it's just interesting because you know, when
I look into it, I mean in my mind, and
you know, we made differ on this, but he was
president that they wanted to have and oh yes, and yeah,
it certainly wasn't Kennedy because Kennedy was just like you know,

(01:20:09):
f U f uf you. I mean like he was
just like, I'm going to do this myself. I actually
had the power and he absolutely paid the ultimate price
for it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
So yeah, see that that mode of thinking back then.
It shows you how rigid the ideologies were at the
time because the CIA and just the general the general
right leaning people at all, which was most of the
population back then, they didn't really they wanted how do

(01:20:38):
I say this, They thought the only way to beat
communism was by both was by physically defeating it through war. Right,
that seemed to be the only option for these guys,
and Kennedy wanting to just de escalate things one seemed
like a betrayal of common sense to the people, you

(01:21:00):
know what I mean, Like that you have to understand
the thinking of the day, and there was no room
for liberalism then, Like you gotta think you really think
that LBJ was a Democrat. Jesus Christ, that guy is
a Republican by any standard. The whole Southern the whole
Southern Democrat thing and the Southern strategy is hilarious. But

(01:21:22):
that guy's a Republican, right and so the idea that
he would try to make peace with the enemy is
it just wasn't part of the way people thought back then,
you know what I mean, it was extreme. It was extreme.
Piece the idea of peace was extreme, which is crazy.
And then when you get into like the National States
Rights people like the MC and Tire and all those

(01:21:44):
fucking guys out in California, those guys were lunatics, literally lunatics.
Those guys actually had meetings about about about killing Kennedy
and killing all kinds of other politicians, and some of
whom went to jail. Who was that one guy was
It wasn't Welch, It was one of the other guys
connected to the state's party got investigated for plotting to

(01:22:07):
to murder politicians. So yeah, those guys were a little extreme.
You know, you don't even really have people at extreme
these days. So that's how that that's kind of how
it was.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
So yeah, well, and that and the fact that you know,
Kennedy was also trying to work with the space program
with kruse Chef.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
I mean that that was like the cardinals in right there.

Speaker 3 (01:22:26):
Yeah, I don't buy none of the UFO crap people
talk about he got killed.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Because not that you have, but I mean, but I
believe the mission to the Mars and different you know,
different like you know, evolution in space type of you know,
stuff like that, what the what the what what their
what you might call it, like their aspirations were. I
believe that they that Kennedy wanted to be on a
shared lane with with with the Soviets in that particular level.

(01:22:51):
And so that's where I believe that's where the trees
in this factor came up as well.

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, people just people were
different then. People were different then, And if you asked me,
the killing of Kennedy led to the sixty years of
conspiracy that we've lived under, because I do believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Oh my god, yes, one percent, with that a doubt,
absolutely absolutely everything that you see right now, there was
a there was somebody that that mentioned the other day.
They're like, well, it doesn't even matter that that story
doesn't matter. There's a hundred different stories that are more
important today than that. Well, those hundred different stories are
completely related to that assassination on November twenty second, nineteen

(01:23:39):
sixty three. Because like you said, it trickles down all
the way through history. I mean, you know, the once
our sitting president was killed, who we we you know,
put into office I mean like that changed things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
That means pretty much the government runs things and every.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
You know, and it just it's been a complete cluster,
you know what my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
So, but I want to deviate into a tase that
we talked about in the beginning of the show, and Charles,
we're gonna have you on here in a second, because
I know you want to talk to Corey. But dude,
the jacket, bro the jacket blew my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
So here's what I had problem I have, like why
that document has been out for fifty years? Has nobody
read it?

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't
think so.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Like that is not something that I feel that like,
I'll put it in a book at some point, but
that's not something I feel like I solved or should
I get any credit for. That is something so blatantly
obvious and stupid that's been there forever that you put
it into all debate, right, and that what we're talking
about is the fact that the tag inside the jacket
found that the tip oft shooting came from El Toro

(01:24:58):
Air Force Base. There you go, that's the whole story,
and that's only one person who could have been. And
that's Carrie Thorning, which connects to everything else I've been saying.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Absolutely absolutely, and if any of these mainstream researchers were
to look at the spread files that you're talking about,
I mean, it would change the narrative on everything. I
think maybe a tiny amount have looked into that, which
is just crazy. It's the same thing with other things
that are out there, like they're they're accessible to us,

(01:25:30):
but they just choose not to look at it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Yeah, and they definitely don't want to talk to me
about it. But I'm kind of a dick, so I
kind of understand.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Yeah, I mean, I'm friends with a lot of the
guys that you know, you know, whatever it is, what
it is. But I at the end of the day,
my stance with you is like you know, your friend
of mine. I respect you, and you know, I don't
give a damn with it, So you know, I mean,

(01:25:59):
if you're okay, here's the way I look at it.
If you're in the community, you should respect everybody's opinion. Okay,
everybody's opinion and where they're coming from. You shouldn't have
an ego because I mean, the research community should never
have an ego. But unfortunately, most of these guys have
an ego and they are so butt hurt if you
challenge the narrative on what they believe. You know, the

(01:26:22):
LBGA camps, the the Greer Shot Kennedy camps, James Files camps,
the Mafia camps, you named all the camps that they're there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
They get so butt hurt about things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
And then you know somebody like himself who basically eats
some breezes whole thing, and that can debate them, and
then like they don't have an answer for it. They're like,
I'm blocking.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
You right right. They all block me. They all blocked me,
all of them. It's like, yeah, it's like it's it's
truly like it's it's unbelievable, Like it's just a psychological
study should be done on it. It's really fucking wild.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Well have you noticed that also? The community?

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
I mean, I love Robert Cruden, so I mean that guy,
I've met him before. He's a great guy, better than
like Robert Cruden and Mark Lane who passed away, God
bless him. Have you noticed that most of it it's
a really small community, but the people are just really dude.
I I feel like they're just really super emotional about things.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
I don't understand what the hell they talk about like
all the time, Like, aren't you tired of talking about
the same old nonsense all the time?

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:27:29):
All the time.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Yeah, I need I need proof and document five.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
If I hear about from Parkland doctors one more time,
I'm gonna fucking shoot myself. I swear to God, the
Parkland doctors. What is that going to prove? What will
the Parkland doctors? It'll prove that the conspiracy? There you go,
we already know that. Thanks for nothing, We already knew that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
But doctor Curis, And that's the thing is that doctor
Curtis went up there. He's just like, hey man, there
was like this baseball size hole in the back of
his head.

Speaker 3 (01:27:54):
Okay, they don't listen, they don't care. You know, it's
nobody cares.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
It was nowhere. I'm just like, what is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
So I mean, and then you know, everybody like doubles down,
all the Parkland doctors. Here we go, Dude, you had
doctor Curtis, one of the last living Parkland doctors, up there,
said dude, this happened. Bottoming Bata Boom should have been
front page news, but yeah, we want to double back down,
and we keep talking about it over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
So it's just that blows my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
So what blows my mind? I was like, I've sent
Jefferson Morley. We had a he responded to me. We
had a brief conversation one night on X through my
through messages and I sent him my book and I
sent him all the David Faery stuff. And crickets, crickis,

(01:28:42):
go here, steal it from me, steal my work and
go put it out as your own. I won't even
be pissed. Just go tell the world, please, no nothing,
crickets fucking unbelieve these people. I'm telling you. These guys
work for the CIA, and this is some fucking co
intel pro roundabout shit. I'm telling you. They just swirl
the pot and they keep it swirled. And that's all

(01:29:03):
they fucking do.

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
And that was part of the element in the beginning
when they planned this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
They they planned residual outcomes like this specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
And you know, whether it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Started with our own inspector you know, or some you
know Boogliosi. And then you have the ones that are
counter those, you know, some of those, you know, the
Gary Shaws of the world, you know, I you know,
I have respect for Gary Shaw, but I'm not going
to put mister Groden and I'm not going to put
mister Shaw or Lane in that because I believe, you know,
mister Lane had the balls to to go out there

(01:29:34):
and actually interview the witnesses at the time when they
were still alive.

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
Crucial stuff like we would know about Aquila Clemens if
it won for him. She's crucial.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
I mean I get crucial. Yeah, one hundred percent crucial.
Mister Groden with.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
With you know, the Suppruder tape, you know, those those
guys you got to, you know, kind of have put
some respect on their name.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
But a lot of the other guys that are out there,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
I feel like Groden was genuine. I feel like he
wanted to. He didn't strike me as his behavior patterns
didn't strike me as somebody who was intentionally obfuscating, you know, definitely,
not one thing I guess is And I feel like
a lot of these guys get like information paralysis. The
conflicting levels of information caused them to like, ah, I
don't know what, I don't know what's going on, right,

(01:30:18):
And I think that fucks a lot of people up like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
Or that, you know, they need to sell books or
they need to you know, get money from the interviews
that they go into and they just want to keep
it that and that's a steady income.

Speaker 4 (01:30:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
Yes, I've come, I've already come to the grips with
the fact that my books will sell it crazy after
I die.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
I'm not one hundred percent, but and that's one of
the reasons why I'm so you know, thrilled to be,
you know, just associated with you, because you know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
You're the first you know, I've talked to.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of researchers, but you're the
first one that I mean, I'm not trying to buy
like you're You're the first one has been able to
really just this happened. This happened, This happened. I got
this to prove it, this this to prove it, to
back it up. There's no fluff, no bullshit about it.
So it's pretty It's awesome, man, So kudos to you.

(01:31:12):
But anyways, his book, Corey's book. We're gonna have Charles
join joint ask right now because I know Charles has
some questions. Charles goutting on mute your your microphone. I
want you to jump and dial in here. But anyways,
Corey's book is called in Black and White, Volume one.
It's out everywhere on Amazon, and I mean, the book

(01:31:32):
is fantastic, So I just want to plug that for Corey.
And uh, if you guys don't know Corey's first book,
or the book prior to this, rather excuse me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
It's called The Warning from History. I have it. It's
an amazing book.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
I have his new book as well, so uh, go
out there by it on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
And mister Charles Small, welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (01:31:53):
How are you hey?

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
Good?

Speaker 4 (01:31:55):
Even so, yeah, I can't remember what questions I had
for him, Tim, but speaking I want to say that,
you know, listening to him, Actually, I of course I've
read your book at I've got a couple of books

(01:32:16):
I gotta read. I will put this on the list
of things. But the words and the statements you're making
and so forth, they actually only are quite frankly bolstering
or supporting the information that I have. And of course
you remember the last time we spoke and mentioning the lazarre,

(01:32:37):
and I'm like, I've been looking for Lazarre, And to
be honest with you, Toro is also something that I've
been looking for as well.

Speaker 5 (01:32:46):
I just didn't know who Lazarre was, why why that
name is even mentioned within the stories of James Bond.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
But uh yeah, I just from the limited amount of
information I've heard and gotten from you, that stuff is
still actually placed into the stories of James Box.

Speaker 3 (01:33:14):
So in the Al Touro stuff I find really the
Autoro stuff is fascinating because you'll find a lot of
the conflict in the El Toro stuff. Because you have
El Toro which is MCAS, which is Marine Control air Station,
and it's a big it's a big station. And then
five or six miles away you had MCAF which was

(01:33:35):
Marine Control air Field, which was a helicopter base. And
when you dig into that helicopter base, that helicopter base
was a CIA base that they were using for like
in the eighties and stuff. They got busted smuggling cocaine
and stuff in that base, and so you got to
think it was always that way. If it was if
it was once that way, it was always that way, right,
And so Oswald was there at MCAF, but you run

(01:33:59):
into some conflicting ten testimony because Oswald will get to
MCAS an actual El Toro, what was it, July of
nineteen fifty seven, Because from there he's there for about
two or three weeks, then he goes on break for
a week or two in San Francisco, and then he
comes back and he's sent to at Sugi, Japan. And so,

(01:34:20):
but you get some conflicting testimony later on that puts
Oswald work in mess duty at MCAS in March of
fifty nine, when he's confirmed to be at MCAF which
is five six miles away, where he's also in trouble
and on administrative duty. So he never got to a
radar unit when he got to California. Never, he was

(01:34:42):
on admin duty the whole time he was in trouble
for one thing or another. So, and I think that's
kind of intentional.

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
Also, see, you have a you've got a twin, a
duple kate if you will correct.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Correct, and it's possibly a twin. If it's a twin,
it's a fraternal twin born like neck, born like right
after or before or one of the two.

Speaker 4 (01:35:03):
Yeah, so I'm I'm picking up themes here from us.
You've got that, And then you've got Toro, you've got
working on radars for example, and you've got you know,
air Force base. Basically that's a place with airplanes. It's
the beginning of I'm trying to remember which movie it was.
I can't remember anyhow, that's the theme where James Bond,

(01:35:26):
he is takes under the cover of Toro. He's at
this secret like air Force type base and there's another
guy there who's also Toro, and that's how he captured him,
and he's sabotaging the radar at the base.

Speaker 3 (01:35:42):
It's that's interesting. I'm gonna have to go back and
watch all those James Bonds. I have a feeling there
might be some Easter eggs in them.

Speaker 4 (01:35:49):
Yeah, I can tell you. I've see these are like
the remaining pieces that I haven't cracked, but I've cracked
public three quarters to ninety percent of the James respond stories.
What the real stories are behind them?

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
Interesting?

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
The ones that I haven't figured out are like, as
you said, Lazare or Toro. I never knew Toro was
was a base where I've worked, and I've been looking
for Toro for a very long time. And then then
you put in together the duplication, and I'm I wish
I remember which one that was. It was it was

(01:36:25):
Roger Bore, and I should have it memorized. But there's
so many of them. I get the titles mixed up
a little bit. But yeah, you should definitely take some
time to do that. Or read the novel of Man
with a Golden Gun. You'll see a lot of this
stuff unfold. I believe I saw you tweet or mess
something about Banister and how they weren't able to do.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
Yeah. Well, I mean all this stuff about Jonita sounds
good now, but like it doesn't go anywhere. That was
my point because the guy bangs right all kinds of connections,
but I can't connect him to jo Nitas at all.
So that was just my point.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
So Banister, I replied to you, and I said, yeah,
it's very important. I think if that was you that tweets.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37:13):
So my angle is I have no idea what I'm
looking about or what I'm talking about. Okay, I haven't
not sliced coop. The only reason why I know it's
very important to connect Banister is because Banister is in
the novel The Man with the Golden Gun, and I

(01:37:34):
don't even know why he's there.

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
Interesting, that's crazy. Yeah, what year was that? Seventy something?

Speaker 4 (01:37:42):
The novel was written in January of nineteen sixty four.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
Oh, that would have been fresh. Like Banister wasn't really
in the news then, was he. I mean, I guess
he would have been a little right, that's the whole point.
That was where I mean, you know, and I my
great uncle was the sorce maan hero for Ian Fleming.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
And so he was so pissed off because he believed
that they murdered his mother along with Kennedy, that he
said the hell with you guys, and took the story
and gave it to Ian Fleming, who then did the
Man with the Golden Gun. So, yeah, it's all there.
Nothing that I have is conflicting with what you're saying.

(01:38:28):
My aspect is that the intelligence that he had so
early at that point in time wasn't perfect. It was
simply what he had at that moment in time. If
he had known all aspects, he would have stopped the
assassination himself, but he didn't. So you get to see

(01:38:51):
what he had and the intelligence that he had at
when he met with LBJ in the White House right
after the assassination for example. So uh, but anyhow, that
that Torah bit was kind of fascinating. And you're saying
the Toro was on a jacket. Can I get an
explaination from understand?

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
Yeah? So at the tip of shooting. Uh, they after
the tip of shooting, they allegedly find a the jacket
like it's like a light. It's like a gray or
a tan jacket. I could never really tell, and there's
always been a lot of debate over whose jacket it was.
And in Garrison's conference with Richard Sprague and Bud Finsterwald,

(01:39:40):
they talk about it, and Garrison determined that the tag
was identical to the tags that they use at El
Toro Marine Base where Carrie Thornley had previously been stationed.
So that is the to me, that's the the final

(01:40:01):
piece of evidence that locks in that it was Kerry
Thornley who shot Tippet.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:40:05):
I mean, that's obviously fascinating to have to on there.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Oh guys, just a quick note, the jacket that they
found was size medium. It wasn't a size small, So
I just wanted to throw that in there. Chorea, if
you can corroborate that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:20):
Yeah, I'm not sure about that, but he was. He
was five ten, about one sixty. You know, these are
to me, these are small guys. They might mean he
seemed big compared to Oswald. He was actually an inch
taller than Oswald. And that kind of comes up when
you see the descriptions of these guys. Virtually none of
the things that Oswald was alleged to have seen or
done by witnesses, like in New Orleans or Dallas, almost

(01:40:42):
none of them were actually ever Oswald. And you can
tell this by the descriptions. Usually he's five ten, five
eleven is how he's described, which is kry Thornley, or
five six or five seven, which is William Seymour.

Speaker 4 (01:40:54):
Another angle or direction that you were speaking about and
trying to understand and why you know, I've reached out
to Morley and I tried to keep things positive, but
I really couldn't hesitate anymore, and I put it out
there that I was like, this is just what you're doing.
I told him that his writings on a middle school

(01:41:15):
level writing. I really I try to be optimistic, but
I want to mention something here since you seem to
be a little bit of an audience to this. When
we're talking about releasing the JFK files simultaneously in the
news is the transfer of the ownership of James Bond

(01:41:39):
and Jeff Bezos has bought both effectively simultaneously.

Speaker 6 (01:41:46):
He owns the Washington Post and he owns James Bond.
Oh interesting, right, And you can't. You can't own rights
to the truth. You only own rights to fiction.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Yes, yes, that is true. So it is true.

Speaker 4 (01:42:07):
I'm just sitting back seeing this and it's just like
I can't. The same guy that owns the right to
what I'm saying is the truth in this encrypted method
of communication is the one that's putting a headline on
Washington Post with something that I mean, honestly, I'm just
I don't really understand it. How's the story even.

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):
Something? You just made me think of something when you
talked about communication, because one thing I stumbled across that
needs much more research is that I stumbled upon besides
the fact that the CIA for some reason was buying
up independent radio stations like w SHO in New Orleans,
which comes into play during the Winterland story, like the

(01:42:56):
CIA went out and bought up a whole bunch of
independent radio stations and along with that I was researching
Jack Valenti and I happened to stumble across Jack Valenti.
I don't know if it's the same Jack Valenti having
a Ham radio license, some kind of Ham radio license
in the nineteen fifties and early sixties. And so I

(01:43:17):
got me thinking these guys could be communicating on Ham
radios that most people aren't operating on anymore, at least,
you know, because I think I'm pretty sure that's how
they were doing it, at least to some degree back
in the day. So just your comment on communication made
me think of that. But I think that's something that
definitely needs more investigation. I think is definitely a possibility.

Speaker 4 (01:43:39):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Well, like, yeah, Charles, thank you for chiming in, And
we're gonna have Charles on tomorrow. We're doing a special
show tomorrow with some other other people to come in
and do it more of an open form. We'll talk
about the assassination tomorrow, which would be pretty cool. But tonight,
it's just under the book. And again the book is

(01:44:03):
titled got it right here, I'm sorry it says it's
just Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White, Volume one
by Cory Hughes.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
It's an amazing book. Again, you can pick it off.
Pick it up at Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Cory, do you have any last things you want to
talk about before we close the show off?

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Nope, I guess I started digging into the marine stuff again,
organized my notes for this next book. And man, it's
going to be a monster because besides, the book that
I could write right now is probably about two hundred
fifty pages to three hundred pages long. But I've stumbled
upon another cache of documents of statements of people who
knew Oswald, and they're like in the hundreds of pages long.

(01:44:45):
So it's going to end up being a monster book.
And it's going to be explicit. It's going to be
like down to you know, I'm gonna have to break
it down almost day to day of what we have
date every day for the whole time he's in the Marines,
because that's the only way he can show that he's
in multiple places at once and back in New Orleans.
You know, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
That's awesome, man, And again, the book's amazing. Just everybody,
just give it a chance. And like you said, Corey,
hopefully you won't wait till you pass away.

Speaker 2 (01:45:13):
For the volume to go up hopefully, but h.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
And Corey is going to be on the new YouTube
show coming up here soon. It starts next week, give
you guys a title here by the end of the
week and off my new YouTube channels. Looking forward to
having all you guys on there and just supporting us.
And again, Corey, I want to thank you so much
for joining us tonight and discussing your new book and yeah,

(01:45:39):
well I look forward to talking you next cool Man.

Speaker 3 (01:45:41):
It'll be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:45:41):
Thanks absolutely, you guys. Have a great night. Chop Deliver,
thanks for joining us. All the listeners before Charles Small,
thank you so much. Everybody, take care, how a good night.

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