Cory Hughes on the Tim Gardner Project X Space June 4, 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Okay, are we on. I see you as a speaker
right now, Corey, how you doing, Bud good?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I can hear you, good, loud and clear. Thank you.
How's it going tonight? Man?

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good man, good good.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Thank you for hopping on and such short notice. I
do appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
So I want to just talk about just in general,
pretty much where we are with the JFK assassination.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now, Corey, I know you're a scholar.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
At this and and you have a lot to share
with the incoming audience that's going to be joining us
later on, but you know, just from a standpoint for
me in general, you know, I look at the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Here we are, what almost sixty two years later, and
you know, I just.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
It just baffles me that it is so swept under
the rug by so many people and just our nation.
I mean, it was an assassination in broad daylight that
literally changed every fiber of our country, and it really
I mean the snowball today. I mean it's just you
feel the effects of it. And I know you're really

(01:16):
passionate about this quary and you've been studying this for
you know, like you's mentioned to me it's pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Much your life.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
And yeah, I just want to get your thoughts about
my little opening statement there.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Sure, you're absolutely correct. It's the day America ended the
traditional America. We were co opted by a foreign nation
with the help of treasonous accomplices here at home. And yeah,
the rest is history.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Literally, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know, I mean what's
crazy is is you know post all you know night,
you know November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, you know
how you know they wanted us to stick to one
narrative about the Loan Gunman theory and the BS.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's the Warren Commission Report. But if you look at it,
you know, Post that with all the wild.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Theories coming in from you know, the James Files of
the world, the you know, the the Greer shooting from
the front, the Jackie was involved with it, you know,
you name it. There's just so many wild theories. It's
kind of it seems to me that they that's what
they want us to do is just chase around each
other and just kind of be caught up in the

(02:33):
in the forest and just be lost in this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, they can't have people know the real truth behind anything.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
So one thing I have to say is that, really
but the assassination in context, like you have to you
can't just study the assassination and come to understand the assassination.
You have to really absorb the totality of the twentieth century.
For me, the study of the assassination goes back to
eighteen ninety five and eighteen ninety six Basil, Switzerland, Theodore Hertzel,

(03:04):
the first Zionis Congress. That was where the plot to
take over the world started, plain and simple, and by
I would say by nineteen thirty three, America was pretty
much toast. They already had their people on the Supreme Court,
they had people in Congress, Henry Morgan Thoo, Secretary of Treasury,
who wanted to fucking kill all the Germans. After the war,

(03:26):
you know, like, these are disgusting people who took over
our government. And this was to me done by thirty three.
And so World War two was a Zionis war. Hitler
didn't want war. But beyond that, when you study World
War Two, it'll eventually lead you to some of the
characters that pop up in Kennedy. Guys like t Boar
Rosenbaum and guys like George Mandel. You know, excuse me,

(03:52):
who all connect through Permandex, which is really like a
central nexus. Everyone ignores today. I mean they mentioned it,
but they don't understand it's role as a really an
assassination factory that was fully operational before Kennedy and long
after Kennedy.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
So yeah, definitely applies to today.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, and you can connect all those guys in Permandex
and CMC all to the strategy Attention and all the
Gladio stuff in Italy, right, so like that was all
funded through the same mechanisms, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, and when it comes
to just the whole, I would just say global aspect
of things, you know, the gas lighting in general from
our government, you know, I mean I agree with you
about starting back in that particular time period, but I'm
talking about just you know, when it comes to our

(04:47):
country just in general, which I do believe. You know,
what we talked about last night, you know, and the
documentation that you sent me last night really opened.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Up my eyes to a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
And you know, I do believe that that you know,
that's pretty much the lynchpin with things. But aside from that,
and I just want to go to the other side,
because I know you've been studying and a lot of
the community really bases it on you know, the CIA
or LBJ or those other side things because you know
ties to the Vietnam War and this and that. What

(05:20):
would your take be on those people who are super
super heavy into the CIA aspect of things like the
Morleys and the Rank.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, they worked with the CIA. So I swear to God,
if Morley doesn't work for the CIA, I will fucking
kiss his acid in Macy's front window. As my dad
used to say, you know, like that fucking guy. And
he used one word I saw him in a Twitter
post like a week ago or two weeks ago, and
he used one word that told me everything I needed
to know about the guy. And I've had personal communications

(05:51):
with this guy. He is not an ally of mine,
I'll say that. But he used a word that told
me everything I need to know about Jefferson Morley. He
said that the government needs to put forth enough documents
so that the researchers out there can come to consensus. Consensus. Okay,
that was the fucking That was the nail on the

(06:11):
coffin of Jefferson Morley for me because well that was
the word you kept hearing about COVID, right, Oh, they
have to come to consensus, right. Consensus is bullshit, all right,
Consensus is nonsense.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, So yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
I mean, and how can one can come to consensus
when you have the Gerald Posnors of the world. You
have you know, people that are just dead said on
what they believe. Nobody is ever going to come.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
To a consensus, right, And so.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
You know, and and and the way I look at
that too is that you know, again, if it just
goes to show our government thinks, you know, how stupid
we are, you know, specifically just based alone on that
Warrant Commission report and the fact that you know, the
sitting president at the time, Johnson and Hoover were just like, well,
we're going to convince the public that we had the

(06:59):
loan you know, loan shooter, and everybody's gonna accept it.
And you know, my grandparents and I'm sure your grandparents
and parents, well they all bought into that like it
was you know, literally gospel, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Right, I was fortunate my dad never My dad was
pretty down to earth and he didn't buy he knew
bullshit when he saw it. You know, he died before
the real answers about nine to eleven started coming out,
you know, so he didn't really get exposed to a
lot of that. But I remember showing him one video
on nine to eleven and I asked him about the

(07:36):
you know, the core columns, and he's like, you know,
you got a good point. I don't know why the
core columns fell like that, And that was it. That
was the whole nine eleven conversation with my dad. But
he was fully on board with the government's full of shit.
They're always gonna lie to you and steal your money
like that was my dad was awesome like in as
far as how we approached that kind of stuff, you know.
So but yeah, here's the thing. I find that the

(07:59):
document themselves are so overwhelming that people get lost and
they end up going down trails that lead nowhere, And
it's really fun. You have to read a lot of
documents to really be able to have enough of a
map of what's going on, to be able to be
reading one document about you know, say the Cubans, and
then all of a sudden, it's got a reference to

(08:22):
something that has nothing to do with the Cubans on
the other end of the spectrum, right, and so and
a lot of people just don't have that, you know,
that breadth of experience with the documents, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, And I was gonna and I was gonna
tell you just to cut in real quick, and my
apologies for interrupting, but you know, I I made a
point to you yesterday that you know, those files are
just they're they're full of so much stuff, but they lead.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
You down a dead end.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
And you know, I was reading the thing about Underhill
and then the next document there was another, you know,
Cuba thing that popped up. I'm like, how on the
hell are these people going to be able to line
this stuff up right?

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right? And so, you know, to kind of answer your
question about morally approach to the CIA stuff, to me,
that's a big waste of fucking time, Like, yes, the
CIA was involved, what was the point of contact. The
point of contact was JM. Wave, Joe and Nitas and
Shackley and Morales. You know, obviously those guys were all
in fucking Daily Plaza and so that's the entryway. And

(09:19):
you know, Angleton is the fucking master of spycraft, and
he was the head of what Western Hemisphere at the time,
so you know he was in on it. But see,
here's the thing with Dallas. Dulles was and this is
my speculative opinion on Dallas. When you get to that
top level, you understand what the fuck's going on, and
you don't necessarily need to know how the sausage is

(09:42):
getting made. You know what I mean, You know enough
to know you don't need to know anything, right, So
guys like Dallas. But here I contradict myself here because
Dulles was ultra aware of very important aspects of Oswald's
life that he made sure to be present for during
warrant commission test so he could intervene when so needed.

(10:03):
And so Dulles was clued in on all kinds of
stuff in Oswald's past that he shouldn't have been clued
in on. And you can tell by how he by,
when he when, and how he interrupts, particularly Robert Oswald,
who's such an idiot that that motherfucker said so many
contradictory things in his testimony that he really is key
in like discerning that Oswald is in like multiple places

(10:25):
all the time, like NonStop. I can't find a there's
no period of Oswald's life that's not in direct conflict
with something from forty five all the way till well,
my studies so far is till the end of the Marines.
I'm going to go on to Russia once I get
done with my book. On the book I'm working on
now is going to end at the Marines, like when
he leaves the Marines on September eleventh, fifty nine. All right,

(10:47):
so after that I'll get to Russia. But up until then,
like there's this NonStop like for fucking you know, how
long is that twenty years, something like that, fifteen years.
It's goddamn imments, you know. And then when you dig
into like Marguerite Oswald, she lied about her history from
about late forty one through mid forty four up until
she moves into the the Victor Street property in Dallas,

(11:09):
and so basically she fucking gives two addresses. This is
the most to me, This is the most fascinating stuff, like,
way more than anything to do with it directly with
the assassination, because the study of Oswald is a totally
separate story. It has nothing to do with the assassination
at all. Right, so it's a pre Cold warplot to
get a spy in the Soviet Union that obviously worked,
you know what I mean. So when you look at

(11:31):
Oswald particularly, like I said, forty five is where it
starts Benbrook Commons School, but he's also in Boston. Then
from there the next major contradiction. You're at the one
o one San Saba address where Georgia Bell, the neighbor,
clearly describes the short, fat, ugly Marguerite who wears the glasses,
who's a nurse. When do you know when Marguerite went

(11:52):
to go to nursing school? I don't have a fucking clue.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, nobody does. It doesn't this there's no point in
time in Marguerite Oswald's life when she could have gone
to a boot be a fucking nurse, right, And so
this is where it brings me to like what I'm
looking into now and looking into like the identity of
this other Margerite who I'm pretty there's a guy anymore.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, you know what's interesting. You know what's interesting is
that you you you made a point about the second
Marguerite which really kind of out my eyes to the
whole thing. You know, I've been kind of on the
mainstream studying this whole thing, as you know from my
posts and stuff like that. But you know when you
suggested to me about the double Oswalds, and I told
you out of that how that was so important for

(12:31):
me to look into.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
And I was watching an interview with her and she
had no idea.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
You know, if if Lee was left handed or right handed,
and I mean, I mean, geez, are just like simple
questions to know about your child that you would be
able to answer off the customer.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
You didn't even have to think about it. And I
mean that just adds up. Man.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Also, like when you go through the documents through all
of Lee's life, you get some weird, weird contradictions. And
obviously you have this other Marguerite and other Lee who
actually literally introduced himself. I have no less than six
incidents where he introduced himself as Harvey, not Lee. And
so I'm sorry I lost my train of thought. But

(13:17):
when it comes to Oswald in this duplicate scheme, to me,
it's really not even that outlandish, you know what I mean,
Like today they can fake identities and fake backgrounds and
it's all computer based. Back then, it wasn't. It was
everything was on paper and actual real spies had to
go and look at what you were doing and pull
your phone lines and like all that stuff, right, So

(13:39):
they had to pull off these body double operations in uh,
you know, counter espionage situations. So to me, it's really
not even that shocking of a thing. The thing that
really gets me is where who the fuck are these
kids to each other? You know? And so you have
a statement by Milton Currion, Milton Currian, and Milton Currian

(14:02):
is like a thorn in the side of the Warrant
Commission because Oswald is not supposed to have gone to
the youth house till April sixteenth, but he actually was
interviewed by Milton Currian on March twenty seventh, two weeks
before he was ever supposed to have been picked up.
So we have a weird contradiction here. But when he's
tucking to Milton Currian, Milton Currion made a statement to
John Armstrong and he said that Harvey is how he

(14:25):
introduced himself, number one, And Harvey told him that he
had trouble when he went to school, and trouble going
to school, because when he would get into a new community,
his brother or one of his brothers, knowing he wasn't
going to go to school, would go to school in
his stead. And so when you think about that, Robert

(14:51):
Oswald is five and a half years older than Lee.
He could never in a million years be a sixteen
year old getting away with going to a fucking eleven
year old's class. Never, yeah, possible. So what brother is
he talking about? There's no other brothers the other So this,
this to me, is the strongest circumstantial evidence that the

(15:15):
relationship between the two of them is that their brothers.
And that would explain a lot. That would explain why
Lillian covered for this fucking scheme, That would explain why
Robert covered for the scheme. Why they kept John Pick
out of the loop. I don't know, but they sure
as fuck did because his testimony at the Warren Commission,
he tells him when he shows him the Bronx Zoo
photo and who was it? Albert Jenner shows him the
Bronx Zoo photo, He's like, I don't know who the

(15:36):
fuck that is. That's not my brother. So and then
again you see, and the weird thing is because they
tried to put these two guys together in Thanksgiving sixty two,
after John Pick hadn't seen his brother in almost ten years,
and so he hadn't seen his brother since like early
fifty three. And then they put these two guys together
in the same fucking room. And John Pick when he

(15:57):
testifies to the Warren Commission, he's like his his facial
features were different, his eyes were set back, he had
less hair, he was way thinner than I remember him.
And then he made statements later on that was like,
I never would have recognized him if they if nobody
told me that that was my brother. And then when
he signed John Picks address book and put his new
information in there, he signed it Harvey. It's like, what

(16:21):
do you None of this ever comes out in the
mainstream conspiracy theorist bullshit from Morley and Dougenio or any
of these fucks. So you got forgive me. I hate
these people with a passion, and they've done nothing but
muddy the water for sixty years on something that shouldn't
have taken that fucking long. The documents that lead directly

(16:42):
to Ferry being on the fucking knoll is like they've
been there for forty years. You know, there's no excuse
for it's no excuse for people overlooking basic shit.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
You know, that's interesting, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
And you know, one thing I want to just kind
of in relation to what you're just talking about with Oswald,
I was looking at I mean, obviously everybody.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Knows the alias Hidell situation there.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
What's your take on the Hidell thing when it comes
to at the tippets scene with his wallet being there
and just his alias?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Okay, so let me ask you a question. What other
alias was used in the setup of Oswald? That was
the name of a marine that he was with at
Santa Anna. Do you know was that was that Hidell?
I'm just no, no, no, it was it was Osborne. Okay,
So Osborne? You have this is okay? So this is
how I put together Carrie Thornley's overwhelming involvement in the setup. Okay,

(17:36):
because when you realize that it was Carrie Thornley who
was identified by Douglas Jones as having had the flyers
printed for for Oswald, right, he used the name of
Leon Osborne. Okay, So Osbourne and Hidel these are two
guys who were in the fucking Marines with Oswald, but
they were also in the Marines with Kerry Thornley. So

(18:00):
actually Carry Thornley was not in the Marines with oz Born,
but Carrie Thornley had a handler, okay, and Carry Thornley's
handler was, Oh, what the fuck was that guy's name?
Um Jim, you know it? What the fuck one of
the guys who was connected to the Lieutenant Ballentine out

(18:21):
at Santa Anna. It'll hit me in a minute, Buddy,
Bud Simcoe, Buddy Simco. Okay, So Carry Thornley was being
handled by Buddy Simco, and Buddy Simco was So here's
the thing when you come to understand the contacts that
these guys had after the Marines when they weren't necessarily
friends in the first place, and you realize, Buddy Simcoe,
he gets into the Marines and literally like right after

(18:43):
he gets all done with the basic stuff, they put
him in basically Marine intelligence, which I think is G two.
But he was allegedly just a filing clerk, and he
spent his entire fucking marine career as a filing clerk.
So allegedly he befriends Carry Thornley out at Santa Anna
and then Carrie Thornley, Well, Kerry Thornley's a whole other conversation.
But Carry Thornley and Bud Simcoe, they maintained contact while

(19:07):
Carry Thornley gets out of the Marines and goes to Whittier, California.
And then Carry Thornley goes from Whittier, California, he shows
up in New Orleans allegedly February sixty one. I don't
buy that. I believe it was more like January sixty
one because that is when the bolton Ford incident happened.
And at this point in time, I've become convinced that
the bolton Ford incident was Carrie Thornley and Lawrence Howard.

(19:27):
And we know they had a relationship because Carry Thornley
wrote his goddamn confession letter to Garrison, fifty page confession
letter to Garrison. You gotta read this thing. It's a
confession letter, straight up. And he even mentions Leopaldo in
his damn confession letter that confession letter is the best,
It's the best. It's a top five document period that
the Frank Shilona document are like as good as it gets.

(19:49):
So Kerry Thornley, oh man, this fucking guy so he
lied to the Warren Commission about his involvement in the Marines.
He is such a key person, and this was the
guy setting up Oswald all over New Orleans. Right, so
you know about the Brenier incident on the street on
August ninth, they get in the fight and all that stuff.
I don't believe for a split second that it was
actually Oswald who had the initial meeting with Bregier, you know,

(20:11):
when he's at his store or whatever it was. I
believe one hundred percent it was carry Thornley, and they
were setting Oswald up because Carry Thornley is in New
Orleans at a time he's not supposed to be, right,
the Douglas Jones Flyer incident is when at a time
a three month gap when Kerry Thornley is supposed to
be out in Whittier, California. You see Oswald comes to

(20:32):
fucking New Orleans in April of sixty three, at the
end of April sixty three, like the twenty first or something. Yeah, yeah,
and Carrie Thornley there is I don't think I don't
think we're supposed to know this, but there is an
actual two week overlap between when Oswald arrives and carry
Thornley leaves, and this is when we get the first
round of sightings of the two of them together at
the Bourbon House. Then you get Kerry Thornley allegedly goes

(20:53):
to Wittier, California. And he does go to Whittier, California
at some point because out there he meets up with
Lauren Hall and Warren Reynolds and Carl McIntyre and a
whole bunch of these right wing, fucking lunatics, you know,
who were all into the like the you know, you
know what I'm talking about, the whole right wing like yep, ye,
then yep. And so they're all meeting up in Whittier,

(21:16):
California at these National States Rights Party meetings, which is
a little weird. So all those guys other than Lauren
Hall and Kerry Thornley, the rest of those guys were
just kind of hanger ons. They weren't really you know,
the Feds had been onto them, had been putting them
out of business and all that stuff. But Kerry Thornley then,
so we know he was there at some point. And
when you go and track his job history, he was

(21:37):
supposed to be out there for like three months. He
only had jobs for like two weeks out of that
three months, right, So that falls apart. And then when
you have all the Oswald sightings in New Orleans during
this time where he's talking about communism and doing all
this weird shit, right, Yeah, that is not Oswald, Okay,
not a fucking chance. Oswald, from what I can tell,
was being kept like arm's length. The only two people
who I believe that Oswald had any contact in New

(22:00):
Orleans was Kerrie Thornley and Clayshaw. And we know clay
Shaw had contact with Oswald because clay Shaw showed up
at the house of Lilian Morett looking for Oswald and
she identified it as Clayshaw in a photograph, So we
have that connection there. What they were doing, I don't know.

(22:20):
There's a lot of speculation about the Oschner clinic and
all that cancer bullshit and the Judy very Baker nonsense. Yeah,
but I that whole there's no evidence for any of that,
like zero, I love there's none. I would be nice
to be exciting a nice little spy story there, but
I can find nothing there. Zip. So So I don't
know what to say about that stuff, But there is
that connection with Clay.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Shaw, so so real quick and and and that's that's
a really fascinating thing you just brought up, because I
have been studying.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Jolly West for a while, and I guess I've.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just been, you know, looking into a lot of fodder,
I guess when it comes to stories about Jolly West.
But you know, of course, I'm sure you read the
same things I have. But you know, talking about injecting
you know, Ruby with cancer and how he was just
involved in you know, heavily sedate and an elephant and
basically having him overdose and goes all the way down

(23:11):
to Timothy McVeigh with the Oklahoma Cinity bombing and all that. Now,
with your research on Jolly West, was that pretty much propaganda?
Bs that a lot of that stuff that's attached to him?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Or was there some validity to it?

Speaker 2 (23:28):
I believe so, because I can tell you that there's
at least three or four references to Jack Ruby having
had cancer going back to like the late fifties, and
one person who they interviewed in the Jack Ruby file
said that they knew he was battling cancer when he
was still in Chicago, and that was like in forty
fucking six or something like that. Right, So pictures of

(23:50):
Jack Ruby. When you look at Jack Ruby in the
year and two years, there's a mugshot of him, he
got arrested like in sixty one or something like that.
And then you look at Jack Ruby in sixty three.
That guy lost like seventy five pounds easy. That guy's
skinny compared to how he looked. Unless it's his brother,
because Samuel Ruby is a major key player in this game,
and no one ever talks about Samuel Ruby.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
So, yeah, that's a name. I have not heard of
Samuel Ruby very often.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
I've heard the name, but I haven't, you know, affiliated
with this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, Samuel Ruby was the guy photographed in the hallway
of the police department that was not Jack Ruby. Jack
Ruby left to go to Galveston. So Jack Ruby seen
in Galveston. I forget if it's like a sporting good
store or a hardware store, but he was alleged to
be buying a gun. But he was at the counter
looking at a gun. That completely corresponds with the blonde

(24:40):
woman who was seen at the Alam Motel on Saturday
night when David Ferry and them were in Galveston. Right,
So this is the Galveston trip and the whole Houston
alibi story is so crucial to understanding people's where people
were and what they were doing because David Ferry allegedly
fucking went to didn't go to the assassination, and he
went on this stupid trip to the ice skating rink. Right, Well,

(25:03):
that's all alo by shit. Like he was in Dallas,
and he went from Dallas to Hammond, Louisiana. He was
in Hammond the whole weekend except for Saturday night when
he drove down to Galveston to meet up with Sergeiy
Arcotia and Leighton Martin's and Alvin boboof who were the
ones who went to the Winterland. So the Winterland's own
by Lyndon Johnson. This is something that no one's ever
figured out. Well, they didn't really have much opportunity to

(25:24):
figure out because the information I got on this I
got from the Winterland fucking Facebook group, which only started
in twenty eighteen, and so I got fucking one hundred
pictures from that place. I got stories from all kinds
of people who were there, and luckily I got one
story from Richard Rowland. Who's the son of you know,
Chuck Rowland, who's the roller skating the ice skating guy
at the rink, right, And so he straight up says

(25:46):
Lyndon Johnson and the Johnson family enterprise, via their relationship
with Mary Boots Roberts and Ronnie Roberts, were the ones
who built the Winterland. And then when you dig into
Mary Boots Roberts, you'll find that she was born Mary
Cault the Gerone. So, like I was saying earlier, having
like a wide enough scope to see when things correlate,
I had kind of like, take this is early in
my research. I'd only been doing it maybe a year,

(26:07):
and I was reready onto Jack Valenti and his role
in the assassination early because he lied about where he
was and I caught that really early on. But I'm
digging into Jack Valenti, and then Jack Valenti had a sister,
and his sister would go on to become Lorraine Valenti Dinerstein,
but before she was a Dinerstein, she was Lorraine call
to Garone. And so when I'm digging into the Winterland,

(26:28):
I find Mary Boots Roberts was really Mary called to Gerone,
and I'm like, holy shit, I never heard of this
name in my life, but now I got two call
to Garons in two different aspects of the assassination. Well,
what does it turnout? It turns out that fucking Jack
Valenti's sister married the first cousin of Mary Boots Roberts,
and his name was Vincent Calter Geron Junior. And Vincent,
called to Geron Junior is the short tram and the

(26:52):
real raoul who was involved with Martin Luther King's stuff.
So that that took me a couple of years to
put all that together. But when you dig into Jack
Valenti and his family and the mob ties they have
and all that stuff, it's like, holy shit, it's a
whole It's a whole study. I could write a whole
book just on Jack Valenti in the Winterland and Lyndon

(27:15):
Johnson in the relationship to the skating.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Rink you mentioned.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
So you mentioned Johnson, and I sent you a quick
little dabble of a show sheet earlier today about I
was gonna mention Johnson.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
And you know, I've been.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Nowhere near as you know, serious as you are about
studying you know this case. I mean I've been studying
for you know, since college and forty five now, so
but you know it's just when I when I've been
researching it, it just always screams back to you know,
how much of a pompous ass Johnson was. Right? But also,
like you know, you did make a point last night

(27:55):
that you really didn't think that he was involved in
this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
But you know, I just have.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Questions about that. I have questions that you know, the
guy was hungry for power. He was never going to
get elected, I mean never going to get elected. I mean,
and the whole Bobby Baker situation. And you know, it
just seems to me that if he had played ball
with the powers that be, that he had some sort
of knowledge with this whole situation.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, see, I sund it sounds very hypocritical when I
say that he didn't have involvement, because I put his
right hand man, Jack Valenti as the as the primary
mover in the story and so and then Cliff Carter.
One hundred percent he was involved, you know what I mean,
he knew everything. But I don't think Johnson did. I
don't think Johnson did. I don't think he knew it
was coming because he was despite his pompousness and his arrogance,

(28:42):
he was a puppet. He never won a fucking election.
They were all stolen. And you know, people hide the
fact that he was born and raised Jewish his whole
fucking life until he gets into politics, just like all
they just like all of them do they all get
all once they get into politics, like Ronda Santis were
born and the jew and all of a sudden, he's
in politics and he's not Jewish anymore. You know. That's

(29:03):
what these guys fucking do. And that's what Johnson did.
And Johnson was a loyal He was loyal to Israel
the whole time. I mean, he was there calling the
shots when the Liberty was getting shot down and getting
blown up. So you know, he said, I want that
ship at the bottom of the ocean. You know, like
the guy was a trader to this country. Kennedy was
the last real president we had. And the jury's out

(29:24):
on Trump, but the Kennedy was the last real president
we had. Everyone else has been at the best of
the Israeli lobby.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, you know, and you know, I have questions, you know,
with Henry Marshall, and you know, the whole line of
murders that went down from from the the you know, allegedly,
I mean, you might have a different take on on
the line of murders that went down from Johnson.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
And Johnson's hits hit list of eight right, yeah, okay,
So let me come in as real quick, because what
kind of tipped me off to that fact that I
believe Jack Valenti was more involved in that stuff than
Malcolm Mollris or anybody else, even when Jack was in
the and the Motion Picture Association of America and all

(30:06):
that big time stuff he was doing afterwards, all that
shit is really good cover for a spook. And so
like he had he was on the Border directors of TWA,
so he can get flights off the record anywhere. He
was on the border directors of the YMCA, so you
can go stay to IMCA anywhere across the country off record.
You know what I mean? Like this is this is
like how these guys get around. All of these guys,
Go look anybody you're interested in, like what their relationship

(30:28):
to anything is. Go look at what companies they're involved with,
and who else is on the border directors. That's where
the goods are found. And so oh, I had a
real good point. I forgot it. What were we talking about?
What was the question again?

Speaker 1 (30:41):
We're talking about LBJ and his eight hitless.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Oh the hitless?

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
So Jack Valenti he at the time that he's a
board member of TWA. He catches a flight for I
forget from where to War. But after he gets off
the flight, he files a police report. And it's been
a long time since I looked at this, so I'm
probably gonna butcher, but I got it screen shot at
around here somewhere. It's in one of my presents. But
he sends a he files a police report, and the
police report, obviously because he is who is who he is,

(31:07):
and he mentions the president in the police report, it
gets routed to the Secret Service, which gets routed to
Johnson because he leaves in sixty six, right, he's out
the door by like like June of sixty six, and
this is like before Johnson is out I think before
sixty eight. And so this fucking police report when he
what he files, he files a police report that basically

(31:28):
is talking about cuff links and that these cup links
were stolen and that five of eight and six of
eight because they were like, that's the size five eights
of an inch and six eights of an inch, and
that these cuplinks were stolen and that they are no
longer in circulation because they and they contained the President's seal, right,

(31:50):
And so I'm like, wait a minute, he knows he
files a police report, this is getting back to Johnson,
and then he just sees it. And I looked into
these cup links. They don't exist. The cuffling were all
donned in millimeters that Johnson had issued, not in inches.
And so when he said, and I wasn't even really
intending on going down this path, but when he said
in this police report, five of eight and six of

(32:11):
eight are out and they're out of circulation, I'm like,
are you fucking kidding me? This sounds to me like
a secret coded message sent to Johnson, and I need
to correlate that flight with the deaths of five and
six on the list. But that struck me as like,
holy shit, that's unusual, you know. Any what else did
he have? He had an Omega watch with a red

(32:33):
sweep dial. I don't know, maybe have some coders for something,
but yeah, really interesting stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, hope to say the least. Yeah, And.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
I just I mean with his dog nature that he had.
I mean, like the guy was a real jackass. I mean, like,
I just I mean, I'm not talking about Valenti specifically,
because I don't know enough information, but I'm talking about Johnson.
I mean the fact that you know he was caught
trying in Air Force one the night in the night
that you know he was caught by Can you elaborate

(33:05):
about that?

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, Godrey MChE So, Godfrey McHugh gets is one of
the first people back to Air Force one after Johnson
and his little group that left from Parkland. But he
gets on there and he can't find Johnson anywhere, and
eventually he about fifteen minutes later before the rest of
the crowd shows up, he finds Johnson in the shower
in the bathroom attached to the President's office on Air

(33:25):
Force one, and it's not on, but he's crouched down
in the shower, like sitting down and he's like bawling, crying,
and he says, it's a plot. It's a plot. They're
gonna get us all. So, yeah, I don't believe he
was in because here's the deal. You want your you
want your next president to have any information on this
thing at all. Maybe if there was somebody screwed up
and left the trail to him and he has information,
he could talk. But if he doesn't know anything, he

(33:47):
can't talk. And so I don't think having him know
anything is an operational liability.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well maybe okay, let me let me ask you this.
Do you think you know?

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Valente actually briefed Johnson posts the assassination, saying, hey, look,
you know this is what happened. You know you and
I are close. Just keep it to the best.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Well, here's the thing Johnson definitely knew. And this kind
of something happened between Johnson and Valenti because something got
recorded on the Air Force one recordings, and Valenti goes
to Johnson and he submitted like a request, and he

(34:30):
requested the original, raw, uncut versions of the audio from
Air Force one on the flight, you know, from Dallas,
and Johnson wouldn't give it up, and Johnson was pissed.
You could tell by the answers that Johnson wrote on
this response to his memo that Johnson was pissed because

(34:50):
Valenti came to him. I believe under the guys that
he needed them for a reporter who was writing a book,
and I don't believe that's the case at all. That
might have been what he was saying, But the tone
of that letter from Valenti and the response from Johnson
teld me there was a lot more going on, And
there's a lot more on those tapes that were recorded

(35:12):
than anybody knows about. So here's the thing you have
to understand about Valenti. So he met Johnson in fifty six.
He handles Johnson's like election campaigns through his company Weekly,
and Valenti down in Houston, and Valenti's gay. At some
point they're hooking up. Okay, there are confidential informants who

(35:33):
were providing information to the FBI that Valenti's bang and
all kinds of dudes, Johnson being one of them. For sure,
Valenti was seen. Valenti and Johnson were seen like coming
out of Johnson's room, like the white House, fucking main
bedroom of like six in the morning, and they were
both like half naked, and so weird shit was going
on between those guys, right, So that's a weird relationship
going on there. But the relationship between fifty six and

(35:57):
sixty develops to where Valenti picks up the Kennedy election
campaign right that was run by Valenti's company Weekly In Valenti,
and so by sixty three the relationship between him and
Johnson is like it's his right hand man, you know,
like literally, that's the guy, you know, that's the guy

(36:17):
he runs to every time something happens. Okay, the as
soon as the assassination happens from Parkland, you see have
Jack Valenti who ends up at Parkland where he's the
one who planted the original magic bullet before it got
swapted by the FBI, and then he's grabbed from the
basement of the Parkland hospital by Cliff Carter. He says,
Johnson needs you. Then there's some obfuscation here about the

(36:40):
ride from Parkland to Air Force one. I need to
go back over this data, but I remember there being
some conflicts in where people were supposed to be in
what cars, and this and that between Parkland and Air
Force One. So Valenti the split second that Johnson gets
sworn in, one hundred percent of people who wanted to

(37:04):
talk to Johnson had to go through Valenti. He, in
my opinion, he instantly became Johnson's handler in the White House.
And oh, I forgot to mention Jack Valenti works with
the CIA. And how do we know he works for
the CIA? Because in the Jack Valenti file, which is
like a golden fucking gem of files that's not even
associated with the Kennedy documents, it clearly indicates that who

(37:25):
was it. It was Walt Rosto. He had a memo
sent to him about people who were working in government
already who had to have their payrolls transferred to the
White House. And it said that the you know, the
the named individual, which was Jack Valenti, needed to have
his payroll transferred from a quote federal agency to the

(37:49):
White House. Okay, for the last like eight years, fucking
Valenti is running weekly in Valentia down in Houston. He's
not associated with government at all. So what federal agents
did he have to have his payroll transferred from. There's
only one, Yeah, there's only one, the CIA. Not only that,
when they made the Manchurian candidate. This is interesting. So

(38:12):
Jack Valenti's in the war, that's he's a veteran allegedly, right, So,
but that's a whole other conversation. But he Oh shit,
I lost my train of thought. Sorry, I'm really tired.
I've been working on my book all fucking Oh, no.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Problem, no problem.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
You were talking about Valente being in the war and
let's see the backtrack.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, so he gets put in charge. He becomes the
liaison to Hollywood and the fucking CIA for the making
of the Manchurian candidate. And this is before he's ever
in the White House. This is right after he really
whatyere was the Manchurian candidate? Like fifty? Let me see, was.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
That sixty or was that? I think it was post
Alum always.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
It was sixty two. It was sixty two, So sixty two.
He's not working for the government, right, And so who
gets him involved with that project a guy named Arthur Krim.
And Arthur Krim. So when the Liberty was bombed by Israel,
Arthur Krim's wife, Matilda Krim, was sleeping in the White

(39:11):
House because she was banging Lyndon Johnson the day she
was there the day the Liberty got bombed, and her
and her husband are Israeli spies. I forgot to mention.
So those are the people who got Valenti connected between
the CIA and fucking Hollywood. Oh well, he also was
like buddy buddy with Lou Wasserman, who ran Hollywood for
like decades. Lou Wasserman was the man in Hollywood, and

(39:33):
him and Jack Valenti were Is it gets because he
was the leading person who pushed for Jack Valenti to
take over the Motion Picture Association of America after he
left the White House in sixty six. And why did
he leave the White House? Because that all connects right
back to Vincent calted grown Junior from the Winterland and
all that stuff the short Tramp because Vincent called the
grown Junior. In February of sixty six, he's outed in

(39:56):
the newspaper as having been the roommate of a guy
named Jacques Mossler. And Jacques Mossler was like this rich
socialite down in Miami, suspected homosexual because everyone was gay
back then. I don't understand everyone's gay all the time.
I don't fucking get it. But anyway, Jaq Mosler gets murdered.
He gets stabbed to death. He stabbed like fifty something times.
His wife, who's like fifty years younger than him, Candy Mossler,

(40:16):
she's having an affair with her nephew, Melvin Powers. There's
a big trial about all this stuff, and it comes
out midway through the trial Vincent Calter grown Junior is
fucking Jacques Mossler's roommate. This hits the front page of
the papers where they straight up say he's the former
brother in law of Jack Valenti. Okay, Instantly, at this point,

(40:37):
Jack Valenti's role in the White House changes from you know,
right hand man who didn't really have a title, to
he becomes a policymaker. He becomes well, he's always had
a contact. It's funny from the time he got into
the White House with Lynnon Johnson. His contact at the CIA,
which was his primary one of his primary roles was
Richard Helms him and Richard Helbms.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, that's the direct fucking line right there.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
So the last three months that fucking Valenti is in
the White House, he's doing policy stuff that he never
did before. People are having to like re route and
meet with him who previously met with like Moyers. And
so then he gets his top secret security clearance May
twenty sixth of sixty six, a week before he leaves

(41:21):
the White House. So why is he just now getting
his top secret security clearance a week before he leaves
the White House to go work in Hollywood, which he
never did. He stayed in d C. He ran the
Motion Picture Association of America. From DC, he was the
living proof that the CIA controlled Hollywood. It was the
censorship industrial complex before we had the modern censorship industrial complex.

(41:41):
That was Jack Valenti. That's for forty years.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Do you still think that the CIA does run Hollywood
right now?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (41:49):
God, yes, do you think that?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Dude?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
It's all propaganda. Yeah, And when you come to really
understand propaganda, you understand all propaganda has come from a
centralized source, and in America that's the CIA. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I mean to me that that would explain whether there's
not too many like you know Kennedy type, you know
movies that are that are out. I know that David
David Mammott was trying to work on a film and
they keep locking them from making the film. He actually
had a script about ten years ago with Leonardo DiCaprio
that he was going to come out about the the
Marcello connection, which you know, obviously I'm not big on

(42:24):
the Marcello connection, but still just having more stories out there,
I think, you know, to get people's interests available.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
You know, there's some suppression there in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Oh, absolutely, But no, the Marcello connection is definitely real.
I mean, David Ferry worked for him, right, And like, yeah,
then when you get into like Thomas Beckham and Thomas
Beckham's statements to the HSCA where he met with who'd
you meet with? He met with Vincent Marcello, Roswelt, Thompson,
a bunch of Cubans and they gave him a package

(42:58):
to take to Lawrence Howard in Dallas. Right, That's all
in its testimony, and it's percent believe it fits everything
to a t.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, And I'm not I'm not specifically saying that he
wasn't involved. I mean, I do believe he was involved,
But I mean there's a lot of you know, theorists
out there that talk about how he was the one
that pulled all the strings this and that and YadA, yeah, YadA,
and I just don't believe that.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
I mean, I don't buy that either. These guys don't
get their hands dirty. These guys are smart enough to
know what not to know, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, and in his character too, he liked to be quiet.
I mean, like he he handled business. He was a
true mobster. That's who he was. He just was a
true mobster. And I get that he was really pissed
that Robert Kennedy, you know, threw him out in the
jungle basically, you know, And and is so funny.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, it's funny, it really is.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
But yeah, I mean I get how pissed off at
the Kennedy's he was. But I mean, again for I mean,
so the way I look at it is this. I mean,
you have you have forms of levels. You know, I'm
sure you can agree with me in this some sort
of context. So you have levels to this thing, and
I think the mob was basically at the bottom when

(44:08):
it came to levels. Yeah, you know, the CIA, FBI,
different things that were just higher tiers and of course
what you talk about which is the highest tier.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
But but I mean, in general.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I disagree those tiers. Really this is more like a
pie chart, gotcha. Yeah, No, I'd love to hear I'd
love to hear a Vinn diagram because you gotta think,
so this is where it all starts. Forty six is well,
technically before that with Lucky Luciano during the war because
the who was it was OSS the time, it was
the Navy. The Navy approached Luciano about monitoring the docks
because they knew the Mob ran the docks, right, so

(44:43):
that kind of kicked off. Well, actually that's not even true.
If you want to really be technical, you can go
back to the twenties when the fucking the Bureau of
Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs worked with fucking Arnold Rothstein, right,
So you know the government's always worked with the mob.
It's always I mean, there's a certain level of control
that they have to maintained, and so you know, keep
your friends close and your enemies closer. So well, I.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Would love to hear your pie charts sometimes because I mean,
I actually I want to do another one of these
with you, because you're you're fascinating. I'd love to talk
to you more. But anyways, going into what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
They really the important relationships are all our surrounding Israel.
Forty six Bugsy Siegel Ruben Daphne of the Haganah, sent
there by Ben Gurion. Ben gurions in New York at
this time, establishing relationships with Myra, Lansky, they set up
the son Borne Institute, the large scale smuggling operation that
basically after the war, the Israelis, the pre Israeli Zionists

(45:45):
as I call them, they wanted our surplus weapons from
World War Two to oust the Palestinians, and we wouldn't
give it to them. So they set out on a
plant twenty year fucking expedition of stealing all of our
arms from various bunkers, like the Homa Bunker, right, So
the Homer Bunker was one of three bunkers that David
Ferry was involved in burglarizing, and so that and then

(46:06):
you have references from Gary Ween to the Oxnard Armory
in California, and even this was a big operation. The
Sombourne Institute lasted for like twenty years. And all those
weapons they you know, like they say all the weapons
that got stolen from the bunkers were going to the
anti Castro Cubans. I guess, total bullshit. All those fucking

(46:26):
weapons made their way through a banister's office up to
Virginia to a company called inter arm Coat and then
got sold to the fucking Israelis or even given to
these rallies who fuck knows, but all those weapons that
they were stealing out of bunkers had nothing to do
with the anti Castro Cubans. The anti Castro Cubans are
the biggest red herring in all of Kennedy assassination research. Like,
the only anti Castro Cubans who were involved in the

(46:48):
assassination were Emilio Santana and Sergei Arcacia and that's it.
And they were working for some from Marcelo at the time,
so it didn't even there's not even an anti Castro
connection to the assassination period.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, this is this is interesting because this is very
New Orleans central on this and.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
I and everything and all about New Orleans, you.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Know, and it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
I just want to switch gears real quick before we
go back to that. And again, I do respect you.
I know you're you're tired and stuff, and.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
We'll wrap it up here a little later, but.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
I wanted to get your thoughts on just okay, I
know your take on you you don't think that Oswald
was at the book depository but from a grant scheme,
so that the story is is that you know, he
leaves the book to depository after shooting the president, which
is just if you even hear the story, it's it's comical.
I mean, everybody hears it. And how somebody could stay

(47:41):
with a straight face and believe it.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
It's just bullshit. I think about it.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
And let's just say he was at work that day, right,
just hypothetically, Okay, okay, you have to hide that rifle, right,
you have to hide it, okay, because the way they
found it, it was, it was it was in a
way where it was hidden.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
And then you run down, you grab yourself a soda.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
You're not out of breast, your right.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Well, let's just say hypothetically, this is the mainstream thing.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
But then he leaves, and then he goes on a bus,
and then the bus, he gets off the bus, he goes,
you know, takes a cab, goes to his boarding house,
changes talks to the lady there, and then he randomly
goes over and shoots a police officer. And then he
goes to the movie theater buys a bucket bucket of popcorn,

(48:33):
and hey, the police officers are going to come and
arrest this guy. That sounds just implausible. And so for me,
you know, looking at it, not only do I think
that that's just a fairy tale, just like the Warrant
Commission report. But when I look at it, it's there
had to have been a reason for Oswald to kill

(48:55):
tip It, and I'm like, there was just no logistical
reason for him to do it. I mean, he just
wouldn't have been like, yeah, I'm just gonna kill this
guy because I'm scared. Why would you, if you were
going to assassinate a president, draw more attention to yourself,
go kill a police officer, and then just jot casually
over to a movie theater.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
I mean, how stupid do they think? We are?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Right? So have you seen any evidence that convinced you
that Oswald was there that day? And if Oswald wasn't
there that day, he couldn't have been there any day
because someone was there going by the name Lee Harvey Oswald.
That's a fact, but it sure as fuck was not
Lee Harvey Oswald. When the entire story of Oswald is

(49:40):
the books pository completely fucking falls apart every turn. When
you look at the ride to work from Buill Fraser,
Buill Fraser and his sister both described to Oswald as
having shown up wearing a gray more or less flannel
wool type jacket and a tan shirt, both of them,
but Oswald had to go home to get his jacket
in that story, right, So Bill Fraser is a fucking

(50:00):
liar and he's a bad one, and that whole story
goes away because he didn't drive Oswald anywhere that day.
Then you have the statements of ed Shields to the
HSCA EDG Shields worked in the warehouse across the street.
Across Houston. He sees Buell Fraser getting a pull up
in the back and get out of his car and
walk towards the book depository. He hears somebody call from
inside the book depository and say, hey, Fraser, where's your rider,

(50:22):
meaning where's the guy you're driving to work? And Fraser
calls out, I dropped him off at the building. That
doesn't match with his statements to everywhere else that he
exited the vehicle with a package under his armpit, right
like right, so that's out the window. So fucking Fraser's
a liar and they were setting him up as a
second Patsy clear as day. They dropped his name at

(50:43):
the sports Droom rifle range, the three Zho three rifle
that they took off them. I have I am at
this point convinced beyond all doubt that the rifle they
took off of Buel Fraser, the infield three oh three
was said rifle that was used to shoot Kennedy. That
was definitely it.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Now, now Fritz had a sign confession for Fraser. Is
that correct?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I don't know too much about that, but they should
have gone through with that, because if they did, we
would be none the wiser. This would be a big mystery.
We don't know why he killed Kennedy, right, you know,
so none of the spy stuff ever would have come out,
None of the Oswald history stuff would have come out.
Oswald would have just been some guy who worked at
the book depository with the assassin. Right, So they should
have set up Fraser and not Oswald. By setting up Oswald,

(51:26):
they guaranteed the whole world was going to spend sixty
years looking into this guy's life. Yeah, you know what
I mean. So they shot themselves in the fucking foot.
I truly believe that Oswald was part of this dual
identity transfer identity program, and that they thought they were
wrapping up a loose end because the real Oswald is
out there fucking probably under the name Donald Norton, and
so he's out doing his own thing, and so they

(51:48):
I don't think they could take a chance. Plus I
think they I think he pissed them off when he
brought Marina back because the Russians aren't stupid. They knew
he was working for intelligence, so they spy back with him.
You know. That's and I think that I think that
caught them on the radar. But see, when was the
very first indication that the they were setting Oswald up?

(52:10):
The first thing I can find is in March the
ordering of the rifle, which is a total setup, right, Yeah,
fake money, order, total fake everything deposited before it was sent,
you know, the whole nine yards. It's all fun.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
So that was in March, which means the plot was
underway in March. The plot to frame Oswald was underway
in March.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
What interesting?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Right? So what other? So what other? See? Some people
link the assassination like the green light, the final green
light from the oversight board, which would be perm index
from their spring meeting. Their spring meeting was in like
February of sixty three, When I think that's cutting it
way too close. So I think that it had to
have been before that. It had to have been in
like late sixty two that the plans really started to roll,

(52:54):
you know, so.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
You'd be the one to ask on this, where do
Ruth and Michael Payne, where do they playing?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I don't really know. Her whole family is spooks. They're
all CIA connected. All of her dad was directly CIA.
They're all CIA is a CIA family, And it seems
like the CIA liked families for some reason. They seem
to work with whole families, and the Oswald's, the Claverias,
and the Morets seem to be the proof of that.
But one aspect of Ruth pain that nobody talks about

(53:22):
and nobody looks into, but I think I need to
look into is the relationship if there was one, and
I'm pretty sure there was between Ruth Payne and Joyce Morett,
who's the daughter of Lillian Morett. And the reason I
say that is because Joyce and her husband Emil O'Brien
are supposed to have lived in New Orleans their whole lives. However, Lillian,

(53:43):
who is so stupid she spills the beans during her
warm Commission testimony all the time she tells a story
about having a meal look up Marguerite in the phone
book in fort Worth because they were living there in
fort Worth, right, so we have hidden from us clearly,
we're not supposed to know that Lillian Morett's daughter and

(54:05):
her husband were living in fort Worth in late fifty
eight and fifty nine. We're not supposed to know that.
Why are we not supposed to know that? I don't
have an answer for you, but as fucking sure as hell,
they were there, and they were involved in something going on.
And so to me, when you look at a picture
of Ruth Payne and a picture of Joyce Morrett, they
literally could be twins. Yeah, like everything, I mean, they're

(54:27):
almost identical looking. And once I realized that these people
are interchanging identities, like they changed their underwear, you know what,
I mean, who the hell knows what other shenanigans were
going on involving them.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
That's crazy, man. That is just I mean, the whole
Truman Show aspect of it. But it's also like a
Twilight Zone episode, and it's yeah, I mean, you can't
make this stuff up.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
I mean you could, but.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
See and this is what this is? What is this
that we're talking about? Really? Two words plausible deniability the
CIA does shit that when people talk about they'll be like, ah,
they don't do that. That's crazy, and they count on
that that's their cover.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
So it's crazy. Man.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
I just when you mentioned the two Oswalds thing, I mean,
it was right in front of my face the whole time.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
It's it's like what Cash Pttel said, It's just right
in front of your face. I mean, you know, and
we have it right there. But if we did, we
just don't look good enough.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
I mean it just the Marguerite Oswald stuff is more egregious. Yeah,
I mean they so that Marguerite Oswald, the fake Margerite Oswald.
It's really fascinating because her first appearance that we are
we can confirm, is in forty seven at one on
one San Saba. There's some contradictions to where Marguerite and

(55:43):
Lee are living at this time, and John Armstrong did
effect a magnificent job of determining that both the false
Marguerite and Harvey Oswald lived at one on one San
Saba for about ten months in forty seven before Marguerite
and Lee lived there in the forty eight. So they
did they do this a couple of times. They do
this I'm pretty sure they do this in the Bronx once,

(56:05):
and they do this at one twenty six exchange place
in New Orleans, and then after New Orleans they go
to the column would address in Fort Worth and that's when.
So that's where I'm at in my book. So in
my book is called Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White,
Volume one. I was only planning on writing about two
hundred and twenty five to two hundred and fifty pages

(56:26):
because it's all documents and photographs and stuff like I
explain everything and show the documents to back it up.
But I'm on like page two hundred and twenty five
right now, and I haven't even I haven't even gotten
to the Marines yet. So this is looking like it's
going to be a four hundred plus page book. But
right now I'm at the point of nineteen fifty five
fifty six, And this is where things get really weird

(56:46):
because Oswald's on record is having gone to borg Our
Junior High School. Right. We have a he was there
for a year and a half, right, But when you
dig into the details, they did the same thing. Harvey
Oswald was there for the first semester and then for
the next school, ye fifty four to fifty five, Lee
Oswald went there, and they both went there with the
same fucking name. I don't understand this. And they had
a friend named ed Va Bell who knew both of them.

(57:08):
Edva Bell died his father thought he was poisoned at
the age of thirty one. But still like and then
you get into like, oh, when you get to the Marines,
you get to the death of Martin Trand, that's it
gets fucking wild. You know about Martin Trand, uh vaguely,
I mean, oh my god, that is gonna blow your
fucking mind when you dig into the real details on that.
Because Martin Trand was fucking murdered, straight up murdered, and
Oswald was excluded from all the reports. It's wild shit,

(57:31):
Like we don't have enough, Like a police report on
something like that should be like fifteen hundred pages long.
We got about we have about thirty pages, So you know,
it's like it's a lot missing from that stuff. Yeah,
But this era of fifty five to fifty six, after
Oswald allegedly leaves from boord Guard Junior High School, he's
seen at Stripling in Fort Worth, where he's not supposed
to be, and he's living in a house tutu to

(57:52):
zero Thomas Place, which is a place he's not supposed
to be because that house repeatedly up in the life
of this fake Marguerite Oswald three different times in forty
seven and sixty three, where she's living at the time
of the assassination. So we get all these like little
incidental facts provided by witnesses. And something I'm very adamant about.
If a witness provides details that are important and they

(58:14):
don't understand the significance of those details, but those details
are very important nonetheless, then you can guarantee that person's
telling you the truth. Like if a CoP's looking for
a burglar in a red car and you go to
a witness and a witness says, hey, man, I just
saw I go that way and fast in a red car.
That guy's telling the truth because you're looking for a
red car and he saw a red car. So you

(58:35):
can determine who's telling the truth and who's not by
not only that, but then you have to look for
corroboration and other things. But for the most part, when
people know shit they shouldn't know, they're telling you the truth.
And that's how you can tell a lot of these
staments when people are true. And so when it comes
to Oswald being in various places, people provide certain details.
Like I mentioned the other day the house on Davenport

(58:55):
that Robert Oswald will move into and buy in fifty seven.
Oswald was identified as having been there in fifty five
while he was attending Moaning Junior High School in Fort Worth,
where he's allegedly photographed in the class photo, which I
have so right, So people provide details they don't understand
the relevance of This guy named Tommy Brown provided the

(59:15):
details about the house on Davenport, and he should not
know about the houses on Davenport. It's just no reason
for him to know about Robert Oswald's house on Davenport.
But he does two years before Robert Oswald moves in there.
This is fucking majorly significant, and this is this is
what cops look for. I was a cop for a
long time. I don't know if you knew that, but
I was a cop for about eight and a half years.
I was a crime scene investigator. I got a stack

(59:37):
of degrees in training, in thousands of hours of experience,
and all kinds of forensic stuff. So when people give
you information like that, you can say one hundred percent
that is true. Okay, So when I look into that house,
that house ends up being owned by a guy in
fifty five named Joseph Summerfield. Joseph Summerfield happened to have
been a life long from the time he was twenty

(59:58):
years old, member of the Remasons and the Scottish Right.
The Scottish Right was a guy Bannister's Stick in New Orleans.
So that made me wonder if the Secret Society's play
any part in this, because I've never considered that before ever,
because I think they're kind of stupid. They're recruiting mechanisms
from what I can tell for the most part, but

(01:00:18):
it seems like there might be a connection there. So unfortunately,
I'm gonna have to go dig in through that crazy world.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
And that's crazy because everything is it seems to be
connected in one way or the other.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
It sounds like it just everything is, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Right, And so you have a situation like, same thing
with one twenty six exchange place, like we have letters
postmarked from October fifty four for Marguerite Oswald. She's not
supposed to have lived there till June of fifty five. Okay,
so we have weird contradiction stuff like this. And if
you're going to have like multiple families named Oswald live
there and switch out halfway, the landlord of the place
is I gotta be in on the scheme, right, which

(01:00:50):
tells me that these are like CIA safe house networks.
You know, the CIA invests billions of dollars into American
real estate through their venture capital link today called ink
you tell, And so you think that's like a new practice. Fuck? No, no,
So how many how many millions of dollars was the
CIA spending on real estate after forty seven? You know,

(01:01:10):
because I have no doubts all of these people are
connected to intelligence in one way, shape or form, even
if it is through a secret society. Because if you're
a secret society guy, but you're just a normal landlord,
but you got a CIA guy in your secret society,
you know, that's where a connection is made. And of
course you're going to help your lodge brother out or
whatever they call each other.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
That's how you can get I think that's that's where
I think that's the missing dimension. I think some form
of organizations where people are affiliated with intelligence but maybe
not intelligence themselves. And so that I think the secret
societies could fill in that gap very nicely. So that's
not an area of expertise of mine at all, because
I've honestly like rejected the importance of that stuff for

(01:01:53):
many many years.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Right, right, And.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
One thing I wanted to kind of make a mention of,
and I know it's kind of a serious, not serious,
silly like theory, is that the CIA and their grooming
like process of like kids growing up to be CIA assets.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Yeah, I think one hundred percent because it all goes
back to the CIA families like Ruth Payne. You know,
she might have been an active CIA agent. She was
one hundred percent an asset giving cover to Oswald and stuff.
You know, So yeah, for sure, even if that's all
they do, right, even if your connections and you're into this,

(01:02:33):
the secret world of intelligence is nothing more than providing
a home for somebody for six months, you know, when
you're you know, in your thirties, right, So who the
hell knows? Right? Yeah, but not everybody's a super spy,
Like I don't even think that Oswald was a super spy,
you know, like with the Russian defect defector stuff. I'm
I'm convinced that a lot of that was just they
send people over there just to keep the Russians busy.

(01:02:54):
You know, they fucking generated thousands of pages on Oswald
in Moscow and Minsk. And what did you do? He
didn't do any didn't do anything, nothing right? So what
that kept them busy as hell? They had they set
up surveillance on him, And how much of their resources
did they spend, you know, wasting on these people who
they who were false defectors who really didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Yeah, exactly, And that's my point.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
That's a great point that you just mentioned that they
sent numerous defectors, like numerous people like stop Stop, and
they would come back with either you know, like you
mentioned about Marina being a spy. You know, they would
come back in the lost situations. I mean, I forgot

(01:03:33):
the gentleman's name that that was. He was linked not
directly to the Kennedy assassination, as it was a Robert
God forgive me, he was sort of it. He was
a clone like Lee Harvey oswhile based on Robert Webster. Yeah,
Robert Webster kind of the same thing that he went
over there and he was living a pretty good life

(01:03:54):
over there, and and the KGB guys over there were
just like, what the hell are these guys doing?

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
You know, she didn't he live in the same apartment
building as Marina?

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yeah he did? Yeah he did. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Well think that's coincidental. Give me a break, Like this
is the thing. It's coincidence in history.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
No, not with this case specifically. I mean, and.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
If people knew the full gravitaze, just what it took
to just murder this president broad daylight, I mean, with
all your backstory on this, it's just incredibly I don't
even think if people if they wanted just to know
what was going on with this, I think they would
actually be sick to their stomach by how much detail

(01:04:38):
and how much really spooky shit that's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Well, the thing that really gets me, and this is
like the most frustrating thing I ever have to deal with,
is that the fucking information on David Ferry and all
the guys down in New Orleans and all the connections
they have to the assassination have been there for fifty years.
Nobody's pulling the trigger on it, and I don't know why. See,
I found that many researchers are good at digging up dots.

(01:05:03):
They're good at digging up data that has never been
seen before, but those the data needs to be correlated,
and nobody's out there correlating data. They're just talking about
the dots and it's like, yeah, those dots are neat,
but like, what do they mean, you know, connect them?
And so it seems like people are just scared to
pull the trigger on things.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Well, I mean that a very surface level like investigation
all across the research and also the people that want
to know what is really happenings. It really is surface level.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
You nailed it, uh, and so like like to me,
I'm still blown away. The Frank Jhlona document is like
the ultimate Kennedy document. It's I think it's the number
one document of all time because it's the document that
debunks the whole Fairry Winterland story. David Ferry was seen
Saturday afternoon in Hammond, Louisiana. You can't be in Hammond

(01:05:53):
and be at the Winterland at the same time. So
there you go. You have a story. His alibi story
is the bump thoroughly right, and then you have to
explain where he was and then where was he the
night of the assassination? Oh, well, we have the answer
to that in the Garrison files. We have a document
that basically says a grad student at the University of

(01:06:14):
Southeastern Louisiana told the FBI that Ferry hit out in
Hammond the night of the assassination. So we have a
document that says Ferry hit out in Hammond the night
of the assassination. We've got the document.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
So you got that, and then you combine that with
the Frank Chillona document that he was there Saturday afternoon,
debunks the whole alibi story, right. And so then when
you go and read David Ferry, where was he on
that trip? He can't even remember and nobody says. He's like,
I don't know where I was on that trip. You're
gonna have to go ask the FBI. Why the fuck
you got to ask the FBI just tell you know, yeah,
the whole thing is bunk. And then when you find

(01:06:48):
the pictures of Alvin Bobouf and Layton Martin's in Daily Plaza,
it's like, oh, of course it was Layton Martin's and
Melvin Coffee is a nobody. They just use his name
as an alibi. Why they were trying to keep late
Martin's name out of it, I don't know. But then
when you're like, well who went to the Windland? Right,
well the serge arcocha. Look at the descriptions given by
Chuck Rowland, whose name isn't really Roland Roland, it's Rulan Roland.

(01:07:08):
You know, he's a spoke married to Mary Mary Boots.
I'm getting ahead of myself. He's married to Joyce Roland.
But Joyce Roland and Mary Boots Roberts are the same person.
This is more spy stuff, more body double identity transfer
operations going on at the Windland. Wow, yeah, I got
a picture. I'll put it in the in the research chat.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
But that's crazy. So so the branch off that real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
And and I just want to talk about the document
release in March, which is bullshit. I knew it was
just gonna be literally nothing, and we touched on it
a little bit earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
I mean, you're not gonna get anything from that. They
don't want us to get anything from it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
They you mean, it's a bunch of stuff that that
is going to lead you down, back down dead ends.
And you know, again for the people that are out
there that think they're going to get an answer with
this like full transparency. And that's why I have a
problem with you know, the Bondies of the world and Luna,

(01:08:06):
I feel like, you know again, and to touch on that,
which really kind of makes me irritated, is that Congress
doesn't take it seriously. They had what five members in
the last hearing, and you know, I think for guys
like doctor Curtis and Abraham Bolden, I mean, you got
to give them more respect than that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Yeah, a lot of people put a lot of weight
into the medical evidence, and again I think that's a
big waste of time. All that's going to show is
that there were more than one shooter. That's it. That's
what you're gonna get out of it. And so we
know that already, right, So I'm not really I could
care less about revelations we get that tell us stuff
we already knew, you know what I mean, right, right,

(01:08:44):
So we have a document that says something that we
already knew, right, you know, like it doesn't get us
any closer to anything, right, So the documents are total
red herring. The best of the documents are already out there,
and like, I guess I think I've said this to
you before, but like when it comes to the Oswald stuff,
we're missing more documents than we have. Like you can tell.
You can tell when you can start comparing the school

(01:09:05):
records and the inconsistencies and how Robert Oswald said that
he went to p S forty four in Manhattan, but
the school records say he went to p S forty
four in the Bronx, right, and so you have all
these weird contradictions.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
So yeah, and yeah, I just got to brain fart myself.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
But I I I was just what was I gonna
it was something really poignant.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
But I like, you come back around.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
But yeah, anyways, oh yeah, anyway, the story of Oswald
is a separate story from the assassination.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
And honestly, to me, I'm way more fascinated by the
life of Oswald because.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Yeah, Okay, I know what I was gonna say, thank
you for reminding me. Okay, file his files that he
had on Oswald, how they they were they disappeared, And
I know that that that's a real.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Key in this whole thing of what he had on
Lee who angle no Guy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Banister, So yeah, a guy banished. I was just reading
about this actually like a day or two ago, where
where Guy Banister's files went and they ended up getting
picked up. Fuck I forget the guy's name who picked
him up, but it was like, holy shit, why is
that guy picking up Banister's records? It was somebody who
was named you know, who you wouldn't expect to be
in this part of the story, you know. And then

(01:10:25):
from there they make your way to the state police.
So the state police ended up with Banister's records. We
don't know what was in him. But see, like I said,
that's what I consider a pothole. You know, there were
documents but they're gone. That's a I consider it a pothole.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
And so but Banister had stuff on Lee though, like
he had file specific files on Lee though, is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Well, that's the rumor. But you have to take the
little bits of data that we have. So we have
the incident where Oswald's out on the street corner and
then who was at Delphine Roberts comes into Banister and says, hey,
Leo's hitting out these flyers on the street corner. And
then Bannister says something along the lines of oh, it's okay,

(01:11:06):
he's with us, right, he says something along those lines.
You have many sightings of Oswald at five point forty
four camp Street. I don't believe that for a split
second once you realize that Carry Thornley's impersonating Oswald and
that Carrie Thornley has the direct connections to Martin mccauliffe
and Kent Courtney and Guy Banister and all these fucking guys.

(01:11:26):
So Carry this is great. Kerry Thorntley gets to New
Orleans in February sixty one, instantly goes and works with
like three different CIA guys, Kent Courtney, who was like
an ultra right wing propagandist, Martin mccauliffe who connects him,
the Guy Banister, and then Guy Banister. Right, So, like
the first three big connections he makes by this before
the summer of sixty two are all CIA guys. So
give me a Breakerry Thornley. Clearly, CIA I got way

(01:11:47):
more on Kerry Thornley that will be out in a
book at some point. But yeah, but yeah, so I
don't believe that Ozma ever interacted with any of those people.
I believe he was very specific handled to do very
specific things. And if we don't have it on film,
it wasn't Oswald. That's basically how I look at it.
All the things that Oswald did that made him look

(01:12:08):
like a communist just so happened to be caught on film.
Really give me a break. So, and then when you
look at how we got on WDSU in New Orleans, Okay,
this is the chain of events I got him on TV.
Goes from William Godday, who's a CIA, total fucking employee
of the CIA who ran Latin American propaganda, and he

(01:12:29):
knew every He knew all the Cubans and all the
every all the spooks in New Orleans. He knew everybody.
And so he sees Oswald out there. And this is
his story. His story is he sees Oswald out there
on the street. He calls Jesse Corr, who's a close
associated Clay Shaw works at the Trademark, he's the pr
guy there. And then Jesse Correr calls John Corporan. That's
who it was. So and John Corporan, this is I

(01:12:52):
got another story I'll tell you connecting to John Corporan. So,
John Corporan is the guy who works for WDSU. He
gets Oswald on TV. Shortly after he gets off well
on TV, he gets a big promotion to New York.
He becomes a news guy up in New York. Big promotion.
So John Corporan, when David Ferry gets arrested, after he
goes and meets with Garrison and he's on he gets
arrested by Garrison. He's put in the jail cell and

(01:13:12):
he's waiting for FBI and Secret Service to come interview him.
John Corporand for some reason is given access to Faerry
cell and he interviewed. He talks to Ferry directly. He's
the first person to talk to Ferry after Ferry got arrested.
And John Corporand was the guy who got Oswald on TV.
And then when you look at the phone calls made
from the Ala Motel in Houston, you know the hotel
they went, the motel they stayed at, allegedly when they

(01:13:34):
went to the Winterland. The phone calls made from there
to WDSU and w s h O. Those were connections
to Carrie Thornley, right, And so to me, it's all obvious,
it's all obvious. All these guys were connected, all connected
through WDSU, which connects to Walter Sheridan, which connects directly
to the CIA in New York, and whole bunch of
other stuff. Right, So it all makes perfect sense like

(01:13:56):
it was a setup from the jump. They everything they
did to get Oz Kerry Thornley put the flyers in
his hands, William Gauday got him on TV, through John
corporand and the whole chain. I just explained this was
all a fucking CIA creating a legend. That's all this was.
That's all Oswald was doing his whole life part of
a legend creation system.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
So yeah, I mean in his body language, I told
you in the notes I was going to talk to
you about his body language when he he or whoever
that was, I don't you know who knows with the story.
I mean, I'm just my mind's blown about everything. When
he was talking to the media, you could look in

(01:14:37):
his eyes like, I mean, he just had this kind
of calm look about himself.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
He knew, he knew the deal because he was close
enough connected to know he got fucked and he knew,
and as I have a feeling, once he got arrested,
he probably looked back at certain incidents that he thought
were fishy, and it all made sense to him. It
all fell into place once he got arrested. I have
a feeling that was how he felt about it. So
I don't have any Oswald, any evidence Oswald did anything.
Like he didn't go to Mexico City. He didn't fucking

(01:15:04):
do nothing, Like none of the things that he's attributed to,
going to the shooting range, like, none of that stuff.
Oswald is alleged to have taken a course, a typing
course in Dallas in like sixty three. But when you
go and read the interviews of the woman who taught
the course, she was surprised how dirty he always was.
And he always had dirty fingernails. That ain't fucking Lee Oswald,

(01:15:27):
Lee Oswald. You never see that guy with stubble or
a beard or nothing. The guy got his haircut like
once a month. That fucking guy who was so uptight
about his appearance. That guy never would be caught dead
in a million years with dirty fingernails. But guess who
had dirty fingernails. Fucking carry Thornley. Because Carrie A was
so balls deep in this thing, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Yeah, and I was talking to somebody from the research
group there. They said that Thornley was the second Oswald
in the movie theaters.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Yeah, right, So the story of Carry Thornley shot Tip
and so Carry thorn and you know this because of
the relationship, and you have to trace David Ferry from
the knoll to the tip of shooting. And once you
do that, you do that through your five witnesses, Ed Hoffman,
Velma behind the knoll, and then you got Akila Clemens,
Frank Wright, and Doris holand all five of those people
described the exact same man with a black felt hat

(01:16:14):
and a blue suit, all five of them. Akuila Clemens
said he was kind of heavy, but he wasn't the
very big man. This is David Ferry. Velma said he
had real heavy eyebrows. It's David Ferry. Okay. So once
you know it's David Ferry, what Oswald lookalike in New
Orleans did David Ferry associate with. There's only one. It's
Carry Thornley. And then when you go back to the

(01:16:36):
Perry Russo stuff, Perry Russo seems like a nutcase until
you realize the man he saw at the party in
September twenty fourth, that was not a Haswald, That was
fucking Carr. That was Kerry Thornley, because he describes him
as a bearded beatnik. So he also, when you get
deep into the Perry Russo stuff, you'll learn that Perry
Russo had gone to David Ferry's house, his apartment on
Louisiana Avenue about three times leading up to that party.

(01:16:58):
All three times the roommate was there. He called him
his roommate, and the guy was living with David Ferry.
Definitely not Oswald. This guy had a big, old bushy beard.
He described him as a bearded beatnik. In the Warren Commission,
he took Oswald's picture and he drew a beard on him.
He goes, yeah, that's the guy right there with the beard, right.
But yeah, when you look at the fine details of
the day of the party, Carry Thornley shaved his beard
and he had whiskers. He was described as whiskers, so

(01:17:20):
he had stubble. So clearly not Oswald. And once you
put the idea, once you realize that at that party,
you've got David Ferry talking about triangulation of crossfire and
how they have to have alibis and how they have
to be someplace where everybody can see them. And then
that will connect directly to Frank Kolona's statement in Hammond,
because Thomas Compton told Frank Kolona that Faerry needed to

(01:17:43):
be there so we could be in a place where
everybody could see him, almost word for word what Perry
Russo said, David Ferry said at the party in New Orleans.
So once you understand this relationship between Erry Thornley and
David Ferry, it's obvious who the Oswald look alike at
the tip shooting because the other person who was impersonating
Oswald number one at the book depository, at the shooting range,

(01:18:05):
and a bunch of other places. Once you realize the
other impersonator of Oswald was William Seymour, and that William
Seymour is currently over at the Tidy Lady Laundry off
of North Clinton. He's like eight nine, ten blocks away
from the Tippet shooting. He's no way he did it.
So the only person left is Carry Thornley. And then
this makes perfect sense because of the phone calls from
the Ala Motel, the WSHO and w DSU, who are

(01:18:28):
both cutouts for Carrie Thornley, which carry Thornley mentions in
his fucking fifty page AffA David de Garrison by the way,
so like I swear to God that carry Thornley fifty
page AffA, David is the glue that seals it all together.
He admits, everything is connections to Marcello and like Gary
Kirsten and all these guys, brother in law is another
guy who pops up in the story. So like, yeah,

(01:18:49):
like it all revolves around New Orleans, it starts you
can start to put it together, piecing together the Perry
Russo's stuff, which will directly connect to David Ferry and
everything else. And then Ferries alibi which was what who
Alice Guidros and Carlos Marcello's lawyer g ra Gill gave
him an alibi and Regis Kennedy, who Regis Kennedy was
as corrupt as the day is long, partnered with guy

(01:19:11):
Banister in some of that Cuban stuff. You know. So yeah,
to me, one, here's the thing. Once you it's like
a puzzle, and a puzzle only goes together one way,
and once all those cases fit together and don't and
you don't really have any loose ends. I mean, it's
pretty obvious what the picture is that you're trying to
put together. And that's kind of where I'm at with
the assassination. It's just everything fits like perfectly, like a glove.

(01:19:32):
I don't have any glaring things that stand out like that.
I can't really explain except the one thing that I
see I'm going to put on my agenda to get
down to the bottom of I'm leaning in the direction
of the fatal headshot coming from Valenti from the tunnel,
not from the grassy Knoll's a couple indicators there, and
I need to do some more research, but I'm starting

(01:19:53):
to lean in that direction.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
I posted something today. It was off offense Paulamara. People
can opinions about him whatever, but Mike, he posted something
pretty fascinating. You are aware of that picture of the
overpass there with that policeman standing what is he standing
on a brick?

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
What is he standing on? He's looking over at a guy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Oh yeah, that's good, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
All right, yes, so it is one of the most
bizire I never saw that picture, dude. This is just
how lost I was. But I never saw that picture
before today. That was the first time I ever saw that? Okay,
is that crazy hay Good from there? He goes up there,
and I'll tell you why he went up there. The
Dallas Police ended up changing his statements, he says. The

(01:20:42):
official statement that is given from hay Good says that
he saw what he thought was a policeman up there,
so he went running up to go talk to him.
That's what's in one of the reports from Dallas police.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
That is a fiction. He saw something that's captured in
the Robert Hughes film, and I the video link of
my Robert Hughes Yiddish edits in the research chat, and
it's in that video. Clearly, Hey Good sees somebody dressed
in an all black robe with a big pointy black
hat like a witch. I'm not even kidding you think

(01:21:14):
it sounds crazy coming out of my fucking mouth. I
swear to God. Is from my mouth, the God's ears.
It's the truth. He sees somebody up there in a
fucking Jewish ceremonial robe, and he goes and arrests him.
I have the footage of this in the Robert Hughes film.
It's captured. It's captured in the background of the Robert
Hughes film. This person is wearing what looks like the
Wicked Witch of the West costume and they're pulling away

(01:21:35):
from Haygood. You see it clearly.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
So the what about the guy with the radio and
then the storm drain the.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Storm drain shit is nonsense, like nonsense.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Well, not about that, But there was a there was
a an opening lash door that was right right to
that overpast.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
Yes, I know exactly what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
Yeah, so I mean, I I'm not saying that there
was anybody in the storm drain specifically that shot, but
just the fact that it could have been maybe a
possible hiding area or I don't know, I just I mean,
anything's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
But I have I have, just like Ed Hoffman says,
I have David Ferry just walking casually off, then being
photographed on the pergola, then being photographed in the railroad yards,
and then making his way back to the behind the
book depository, where he is then seen by Velma, who
calls into Coast to Coast radio. I'm sure you've heard
that that phone call. That's the greatest fucking phone call ever.
She gives so much drop, you know, perfect bombshell data

(01:22:34):
that's accurate. Like and like I said, she provided details
on things that she wouldn't know unless she was right
where she said she was, you know, just like this
stuff from Doris Holen. So you got Dale Myers, who's
a total loser, Like he's the number one. He's a
fucking Oswald did it guy. But he wrote a bunch
of books on tippet and whenever sing he comes across
the facts he doesn't like, he just tries to explain
him away. And that's what he did with Doris Hole.
And he tried to explain away Doris Hole in statements

(01:22:55):
who clearly identified two men shooting tipp it, not just one,
you know. So But yeah, so I need to investigate
the tunnel a little more for sure. That's like on
my to do list, although my to do list is
like fucking one hundred pages long.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
Well, yeah, and you're writing a book right now and
you've got yeah, yeah, so when you get to it.
But yeah, so, well I want to pick this up
again some other time. I want to we'll do a
part two of this sometime. Yeah, And yeah, because I you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Know, I know, I know both of us.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
We were busy lives and stuff like that and everybody listening,
thank you so much. But if anything closing, I just
wanted to make h If I could have you close
with comments, that'd be great there, Corey.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
That.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
But for me personally, you know, I'm really I think
we need to get this damn thing. Just for me personally,
I feel like we need to have this thing in
stone when it comes to like the narrative of what
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
We may know what it is, you know, when it
comes to.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
As researchers, but I feel like there has to be
a consensus about who killed their president. I mean like
it has to be mainstream and we'll whatever get there.
I don't know, but we really have to get that
out there. And the way that that this stuff still
ends up being suppressed is just it's it's not healthy
for us because I feel like we've been stunned since

(01:24:30):
nineteen sixty three. So hopefully we can get more headway
as time goes on. And with people like you, Corey,
you're making things happen, So I do appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
I appreciate that. Yeah, So my work is like universally
rejected by all the people who are the quote unquote experts.
The only friend I have in that world is John Barber.
John Barber is the only person who's friends with me
who like is from that world. But he couldn't deny
un once he saw my research, he was he couldn't
deny what I had found. And so but I would

(01:25:02):
love to be able to have conversations with these people.
But even I did a show at Morley and like
Larry Hancock and a couple other people, o'ceelly, you know,
and like I swear to god, these people don't want
to know what happened. They just don't. They just don't
want to know. They want to They want to bitch
about stuff and where's the documents and where's this? And
where's that? And you didn't tell shut up? Just shut

(01:25:23):
your mouth, Okay, you guys been doing this for like
forty years. You never solve the fucking thing. Like I'm
just tired of hearing from these people. And I'm really
tired of these people being called experts. I mean, if
I studied cars for forty years and I still didn't
know how an engine worked, people would call me a
fucking moron, not an expert, you know what I mean. Like,
so like all these people like James, like these guys
have to work for the CIA because they can't be

(01:25:44):
this blind. They can't be this is not possible. It's
not possible. I mean, they just they are the When
you look at who's deflecting the conversations, it's these guys,
you know. So you know, the assassination is the most
important event in American history. Everybody needs to come understand
it if we're ever to really heal as a nation,
because we haven't so well.

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
I appreciate it and everybody listening, Charles, everybody that's out
there listening, thank you so much. And yeah, we'll do
this again, Corey and I'll talk with you here on
the research board and everybody have a great night.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Cool m hm

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