Garrison-Sprague New Orleans Conference 9/21/68 Part 10

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good morning, everybody, coryus bloody history. So just let you
guys know my new book is done. Done. I'm in
the proofreading phase and I'm hoping to have this thing
up and available for sale like this week. It is
called Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White, Volume one,

(00:23):
and you can expect to get a second volume before
the year is out. That's currently the plan. I was
originally gonna do one big book. However, by the time
I got up to Oswald entering the Marines in nineteen
fifty six, I was already at page like two sixty

(00:44):
and I need at least two hundred plus pages to
get through the Marines. So I made the decision, a
very hard decision, to make volume one up until he
goes to the Marines, and then volume two will be
the Marines itself, which is fucking crazy. Once you once
you start to see what was going on while he
was in the Marines, you're going to freak out. It's crazy.

(01:06):
And during fifty seven and early fifty eight, I got
Oswald in three places at once, so that book will
be out by the end of the year. But this
new book will be out. I'm hoping that you'll be
able to order it by end of the week. If
I can get the proof reading done and get it uploaded,
you should be able to order it by the end
of the week. So that's a good thing. But today

(01:26):
we're going to continue on with the Garrison Sprague document.
We got about fifty pages to go, so it'll probably
be like three total more episodes. And they were just
where we left off. They were talking about how Tippett's
wife and Marina and them made a whole bunch of
money off of this thing. So let me continue from

(01:46):
right here. Well, Marine has made out rather well. She's
done very well, since there's no question about that. Also,
missus Tippet made out rather well. Do you know where
the seven hundred and eighty thousand dollars came from? Boxley says,
they took care of the widows. Yeah, but where'd that
money come from? From? Contributions? They tell you in the

(02:07):
testimony of Marina's contribution. They are going through, Now here's
a contribution of twenty five thousand, and a member of
the Warrant Commission says, where did that come from? And
the answer was a source, that's all. And they went
on to the next question. Here are this guy's on
the bus. You know Albert, It says Albert Osmer. But

(02:28):
he must be talking about Albert Osborne. When JJ Boeing
was listed as entering Mexico on one hundred and eighty
day tourist permit issued at the time of the crossing,
he got his tourist permit all of a sudden, right.
He got his initial papers in Montreal seventy two hours
before getting back to Ray again seventy two hours before
he crossed the border. He got his papers in Montreal.

(02:48):
You mean the vaccination permit. You may be wrong on
that now. The description the descriptive data furnished by Boeing
was sketchy. Mode of travel not indicated. Final destination given
as DF, which is Mexico City. Described as a male
American citizen sixty years of age, married office worker, born
in Houston, Texas. Residents Houston, Texas, with no street address indicated,

(03:09):
presented birth certificate as proof of citizenship. As it later
turns out, he was a native of Great Britain and
a Canadian citizen. Now here's a guy. He takes out
one hundred and eight day tourists permit, yet he only
stays a few days. Bill. I think the most significant
thing of all, if I'm not mistaken about this, is
that he's from Montreal seventy two hours before. It just clicked.
I'd forgotten about this for months. We ought to put

(03:31):
down a list of the ways that Montreal comes into
this thing again and again. That's where Bloomfield is. Well,
how do we know he was in Montreal before? I
found it? In the Warrant Commission report. He found it.
I remember we discussed it. It said he was in
that he left Montreal seventy two hours before, and here
he is on a bus going across the border. Down there.

(03:51):
They've got different modes of transportation, but Montreal comes up
too often. Remember that's where Bloomfield is. Who is in
this association with clay Shaw. He's a banker in Montreal.
He's probably more than a banker. He's in Montreal, and
everything happened in Montreal. Where does Jules Rico Kimball go
when he runs away? He goes to Montreal. He went
on a plane flight with Sean Ferry to Montreal. The

(04:14):
thing I like about this guy is that here he
indicates Boeing conducted much of his business in Laredo, Texas,
and that's where Oswald had a safe deposit box at Laredo, Texas.
What business was he in doesn't say. He was just
an itinerant, independent Baptist preacher going to Mexico, going to
Mexico City from Montreal, that's right, and indicated he intended

(04:38):
to contact friends at Birmingham, Alabama and at New Orleans,
Louisiana en route. He came to New Orleans afterwards the
Young Hotel. Know anything about that? Are you kidding? No?
I didn't know that, I know. Afterwards he came to
New Orleans and went to the Canadian Council and he
got his papers to Osborne. Osborne suggested that Bowen could

(05:01):
be located. This is when he's putting the FBI here
about the identity that Bowen could be located through the
Hotel Young, New Orleans, Louisiana, where he was recently employed.
How'd you come up with that? It's in the volumes.
Osborne also opined Bowen might be located through Hotel Street Anthony,
Laredo more or somebody might want to check with John

(05:22):
and see if they can find any names back around
this time, positively, Boxley says the Bureau would have been
there by this time. Well, you don't know, they have
missed some of this stuff. You want to make a
note of that, Bill. I think it's real interesting. It's
all in the CE two one ninety five series. Here's
a guy established a missionary station in a Baptist church

(05:43):
in Mexico. He's not a member of the conventional Baptist Oh,
twenty one ninety five series, let me screenshot this so
I can go dig this up. And they never really
find out the station. And they spend pages trying to
find out if Albert Osbourne is John Howard Bowen. And
as soon as they find out he is, they say, oh, well,
it's the same guy. This should be the beginning. I

(06:06):
thought Chasing the History of Sylvia Durand's Car was probably
the neatest one hundred pages they spent through all the
way to the Yadalora. And oh my god, here's the
guy who tells the FBI when he gets hard up
for funds, why he's an expert gardner. And he does that,
and he travels the state of Louisiana looking for old books.

(06:28):
Now here's the guy, all right, he's on the Oregon
short line a little bit little towns in Alabama. Yeah,
now talking to Scotland. Yard talks to his brother and
sister in England. He hadn't seen them for years, you know.
They sent it to box three oh eight, Laredo, Texas. Okay.
They continue to use that address until Albert suddenly appeared

(06:50):
in Grimsby in early November sixty three. According to Walter Osborne,
Albert traveled to Preswick, Scotland, and the company of a
group of scientists who were going to Iceland to photograph
ofvolcano which has emerged there from the ocean. It was
going to emerge on November twenty second, and then everyone
breaks out laughing. That is kind of funny. It is
not known whether he got off the plane in Preswick

(07:11):
before or after the expedition of the photographing in Iceland. However,
he traveled overnight by train to Preswick and arrived early
in the morning that missus Featherton's home, remained there four
or five days and left for London sitting he was
going on to Spain, so he arrived. She received a
letter from his postmark New York City December fourteenth, safely

(07:32):
after the assassination. He had to get back because he
had some gardening job. I heard about that volcano. It
spewed out ice. When they talked to another sister in Gary, Indiana,
she said he never. She said she never heard of
albert having any scientific or technical skills or being involved
in oceanography or other scientific projects. There was pure structure.

(07:53):
Here's your Montreal from New York. The paraphetic Osbourne Bowen
apparently returned briefly to Mexic Ago before sitting out again.
A letter from her received January thirteenth, nineteen sixty four
at the Central WMCA in Montreal. Well he goes to
Alberta too, Right, If you have an email for me,
well you kindly forward it to General Delivery, Detroit, Michigan, USA.

(08:15):
I'm going to Alberta instead of coming to Montreal as anticipated.
The letter was postmarked in Mexico. Just another face in
the crowd. I think this is an NSRP underground structure.
Here's the church structure. They are different structures any government uses.
If you want a further parallel, he had boys camp
in Tennessee that they suspected there was some hanky panky

(08:37):
going on. Boy, is that familiar? Where'd you say he
was November twenty second. He was checking out a volcano
had just arisen out of the ocean. He could be
this NSRP structure and his contact with the government operation
would be in Montreal. But he never incounter the government
in the US. These itinerant preachers lived pretty well, that's right.
But he could encounter the company in Mexico and up

(09:01):
in Canada, but never the US. You see, when Oswald
got the printing done at Jones Printing Company, he used
the name Lee Osbourne instead of Oswald. There's a question
about description here though, all right, so let me just
clarify this. Thanks to Wiseberg, we know that the person
who picked up the flyers from Jones' printing was Kerry Thornley,
identified by Douglas Jones himself through four pictures. So Oswald

(09:24):
never picked up the phot picked up the flyers there.
It was a setup job. He was given an assignment
to hand out the photos and he did. But the
name Osbourne, the reason the name Osbourne is significant is
not because of Albert Osbourne and Bowen or whatever the fuck.
No Osborne mac Osborne was another guy at Santa Anna,
and that name would have been known to carry Thornley,

(09:47):
not directly, but he would have known mac Osborne's name
through his handler, which was Buddy Simcoe. Okay, and Buddy
Simco's handler was Lieutenant Ballentine. And so that's the intelligence
structure that was at play here monitoring and handling Carrie
Thornley in the Marines. Right, So the Osbourne alias does

(10:08):
not come from Albert Osbourne. It comes from mac Osborne,
who was also at Santa Ana. Okay, all right, moving on,
there's a question about description there though they tell us
it was not Oswald. I went to see him again
with Wisberg and they swear up and down they did
not identify Oswald when the bureau came, and they do
not identify him now. It was an outdoors type husky

(10:29):
guy that ordered the printing. See that's another bit of bullshit. Okay,
So there is one there's only one statement that said
a husky guy came and picked up the stuff, right,
But that's not true at all, because Douglas Jones actually
identified four photographs of the man who picked up the flyers,

(10:54):
and that was Kerry Thornley, Okay. And that makes perfect
sense because Kry Thornley and Clay Shaw were basically the
only contacts Oswald had in fuck New Orleans. But we'll
get into Clayshaw another time. You got to rewrite your
book cover. Um, well, well we've obviously broken the whole theory,
Garrison says. You have the steady indication of intelligence apparatus
and the continued use of Mexico and Canada. It isn't

(11:16):
just with one individual. It's endless. This friend of Sir Hans,
Sir Hans who committed suicide, wasn't he found dead in Mexico?
I didn't tell you the latest. The preacher now Jerry
Owens says that Gonzales or whoever it was. The kid
says that he was one of the guys who got
on the truck with Sir Hans. Sirhan, he was in
the jail cell when he committed suicide. A lot of
guys do that. What's that? What did he hang with

(11:40):
torridor pants? He hung himself, but not with the pants,
and everyone laughs. There's another case of identity problem. Nancy Mooney.
There really is a problem because they have structured it
to make her the librarian. In other words, as you
go through the volumes, you end up with a picture
of Nancy Mooney as being associated somehow with Jack Ruby
and at the same time librarian for this mobile oil company. Actually,

(12:03):
you can locate her on the phone and talk to her.
Didn't we talk to her once married to doctor Miller.
Garrison says, this is what they are really doing, is
causing Nancy Mooney who worked at Jack Ruby's to evaporate,
because if you look back to the index, the index
makes into the same person the girls that's brought the party,
given the oil people, and the Nancy Mooney that worked

(12:26):
for Jack Ruby. The cross index is like they are
the same person, and it's not possible for them to
be the same person. One was a hustler that Dago
Garner hustled. Dago Garner is loaded all the time at
Jack Ruby's and send her out, in other words, as
a librarian for Mobile oil, and they make it the
same person. What they did is they actually removed one

(12:48):
human being. Well, she was on the scene too much
of Jack Ruby's, and she saw some things and they
got rid of her quick. I'm surprised Dago hasn't got it.
He blew Alt Las Vegas. We've had him here in
New Orleans. Well, I know that Garrison says, Daego may
be alive because he has such a mixture of truth

(13:09):
and shit that you can't tell which is which. He
definitely was on the scene at Jack Ruby's and saw
an awful lot of things, but he also embroiders other
things into it that after a while you just lose
your reference point. It's like flying at night with no lights.
All right. So the guy they're talking about is Daego,
what's his name? Garner, guy who was working for Jack

(13:29):
Ruby who shoots Warren Reynolds in the head and then
gets goes to jail, and is his wife Nancy Mooney,
who has an alias. Also she ends up killing herself
into Dallas jail, which is kind of weird. Right, So
the tape is really something. I think there's much truth,
but we don't know where to begin. He's seeing Shaw

(13:49):
at Jack Ruby's. I think there's a certain amount of
truth to what he says, but you don't know where
to begin and where it ends. How about Warren Reynolds.
Warren Reynolds is my judgment, in my judgment, part of
a convoy. At least one of the men who shot
Tippett merely ran around the block and back to the
church and car two two three covers him. That's kind

(14:11):
of involved to get but that's one area we dug
into a lot. As a matter of fact, the jacket
which he dropped, he dropped just before he went into
the church. And he's probably protected by Captain Westbrook. There
wasn't there a patrol car there. He's convoyed all the
way around. He's safe. But the jacket he dropped leads
straight to Los Angeles, which is where Lockheed is, and
they never really checked out the jacket. The jacket was

(14:34):
carry Thornley's by the way by people. The jacket does
lead to Lockheed. Yeah, it's Los Angeles. What laundry mark? No,
it was manufactured in Los Angeles. Plus it's got a
laundry mark on it that's identical to the one from
the Toro Marine Base. Oh shit, holy shit. The laundry
tag in it was identical to one from the El
Toro Marine Base. Holy fuck. Now, this is something that

(14:56):
people have argued over for like twenty fucking years. The
altor Marie, that's goddamn amazing. I was like, that is
the highlight of this fucking document today. Holy shit, it
just more corroboration that the fucking jacket came from Kerry Thornley. Well,
we think we don't know this guy sent the letter,

(15:16):
but nobody's checked that though. No, the point I'm saying
the laundry marker is not being cleared in La No,
even if they cleared it in Dallas, they would have
known that Warren Reynolds was a witness to the Tippet murder. No,
he was in a small time smuggling and stuff like that.
But Ruby, but he wasn't an auto used car in
an auto used car. Yeah, they used car a lot.

(15:38):
Didn't you have something to do with the Tippet murder? Yeah?
He uh something, he's something he saw the guy. Yeah.
It's also interesting that he's the one that introduced Hall
to General Walker. That is correct, That actually is correct. Yeah,
he has a relationship with General Walker. Where's the jacket
supposed to have been found in the parking lot behind
the church or a bunch of cars lined up in

(15:59):
the line. There's a movie at WFAA that shows a
copy looking at a jacket lying on the ground and
a bunch of cars parked along the right. The church
is important because the church was not really used as
a church at all. It was for the bought for
this organization in nineteen sixty two and sold in sixty four,
and it was a preacher we found out Graham, Yeah,

(16:19):
Obi Graham. He's an NSRP kind of guy, that's right.
And the cop holds the jacket up and you can
see it blowing in the wind. If you think it's
interesting that there was a TV photographer they're taking this.
You know, timing is fantastic. The greatest timing is when
they find this guy that entered the Texas Theater without
buying a ticket. That woke them up out of there.

(16:40):
My god, didn't buy a ticket. By the time they
arrest them and bring him to the door, the mobs
outside chanting let us have them. Isn't that unbelievable. That's
all they need is two police cars and sirens. Fantastic,
unbelievably created testimony and testimony of McDonald is absolutely impossible.
You know, the hero and everything. There's no evidence at
all of any fingerprints at all in that thirty eight

(17:01):
in the Texas exhibits. That means that his probably weren't
on it exactly exactly. Oswald never touched that fucking gun
unless he knocked it out of their hands when they
hit the floor. No fingerprints, no barabilistics. I showed you
this common photo inside the theater, deny arresting Oswald. No,
have you got that? The cashier at the theater. She's scared,
but still working for the same chain of theaters, all

(17:25):
right next side of the tape. The incredible thing to
me about all these officers in Dallas is that they
had to know he didn't do it. It makes no difference.
They're all minutemen. Do you think that's the major factor? Bill?
How about the Fort Worth police Do you think they're
any better? I think they are better in a sense.
There are some things that could be checked out with them, Bill,

(17:46):
Like the guy that's being redacted here, the old guy. No,
not house, the old guy house was the young guy
about twenty years old. It's interesting to know who this
guy was. Oh, he's talking about Kenneth Glenn Wilson. You
want a name to go do some digging into. Kenneth
Glenn Wilson. That's the name of the guy who was
arrested at the house on Belmont where I'm convinced David
Ferry was using as a safe house because his light

(18:09):
colored Ford Falcon was there as per the cops who
showed up on scene to arrest Kenneth Glenn Wilson. Right,
So with the Kenneth Glenn Wilson angle is really important.
And the other guy he's talking about is a guy
named who goes by Donald Wayne House, but his real
name is David Wayne House. Yeah, you did. Who's this guy?
That's what we don't know. I'll look into it though.
I got some notes on him from Dick, and when
I go check on this house, I've given you some

(18:31):
new leads. Bill on the arrest Maiden fort Worth. House
was younger. Of course, that might not have been House
driving that car. That's the thing we don't know. The
car checked out for House. It was a Ranger plate.
But I think we got to get back again and
again when we speak about the facts that the police
officers are minutemen, we see an NSRP structure in order
to keep from being mystified, and we see ultimate power

(18:54):
and made these wheels move. We've got to remember the
consistent connections of all key people of the federal government
in the systemic award by the federal government to the
defense industries, of everybody because that's what's concealed. You don't
see that in the twenty six volumes. But you look
at all these people now, and they are either going
to Boeing or coming from Boeing. They were able to

(19:16):
use these different structures. But the real power is the
defense power, the industrial warfare complex. That leads to Aman Heaton. Oh,
I don't know who that is. I haven't even mentioned
him yet before we run out of time. I guess
we'd better wait until he comes back. If I told
you about Heaton. We've got an ally who has tremendous
insight into the warfare complex because he was rather high ranking,

(19:39):
apparently air Force pilot, personal pilot of General Spota when
he started his own airline of some sorts after the war,
and he was put out of business by the Washington
operation by the big defense industries, and this got him interested,
and then he went into packaging business for shipment, and
he found when he went to Washington he couldn't make

(20:01):
any sales because US Steel had a lock on it.
There was no bidding at all. The US Steel had
direct connections with the White House. For some years, he's
been digging away at this defense complex trying to find
what made the thing work, but he never connected the
assassination until the third one. Since the third assassination, he's
been digging into Vietnam and everything. He's produced some fantastic data.

(20:24):
It's almost unwieldy. Oh, we got to find this guy.
Look click. His name is Emmon Heaton m O n
h E A t I N m On Heaton. It's phonetic.
Something might be wrong in the spelling, but Munheaton is someone.
We got to figure out who that guy is. Dig
into Vietnam and everything else, he's producing fantastic data. It's

(20:45):
almost unwieldy. Unwieldy. It's precise data, including the results of
an eighteen month inquiry he conducted into what was happening
in Vietnam and economic terms, the boodle, the unloading of
whole shiploads straight into black market trucks waiting at the pier.
I'd rather, instead of trying to describe what he's done
himself in many, many pages, I would rather just make

(21:06):
it available this weekend to you. How long are you
going to be here? I'll be here until at least
Monday afternoon. Well, we'll get the book from Jim Alcott tomorrow.
It's almost too much. This man has been digging away
at it and what he has done, what forms he
put it in. He's shown the point of view of Washington.

(21:27):
He was lobbying in Washington for years, trying to overcome
that Lockheed and Boeing and Pan American and all these
other corporations edge had on the US government. And he
started thinking when Bobby Kennedy was killed, about the curious
suicides that occurred in the months before Washington. The fact
that month before John Kennedy was killed, he had never
dug into them. So now he goes back and digging

(21:48):
into them, starts digging into the administration under Eugene Zucker.
It occurs to me now that one of Kennedy's close
friends the day before the assassination jumped out of an
office building in Miami. That's right, that's right, the former
ambassador to Ireland or something. That's the guy which Kennedy,
John Kennedy was the day before. That was the day
before or the day after, one or the other. What

(22:08):
caught Amin Heaton's eye was the series of suicides. There
are other members of the former Secretary of the Air Force.
Did em Ray kill himself. You aren't talking about Forrestall,
are you. That's in one of the notes on his
stuff that you need. I thought it was Emi he
was fired and coach Lear. He was a top lobbyist

(22:30):
for airplane manufacturers. A man with Ian was very important
at the White House. And to make a long story short,
this man has too much data as a result of
years of work on his part for anybody to describe casually.
But what it amounts to is that Bobby Kennedy apparently
caught on to what was going on and pushed Jack
Kennedy into doing something about it. Naturally, they contribute to
both sides. Jack Kennedy had gotten contributions to. But the

(22:52):
point is something was being done about the warfare structure
and the fantastic power it had. And this man, working
on a different level than Radaka did, fucking retacted fuck
you with no attempt to deal with courtroom evidence at
the Dallas level. He worked at the level of two areas,
Washington and the Vietnam operations. And you come up with

(23:12):
nothing but Boeing, Lockheed, Pan American, the defense structure again
and again as be responsible for the entire operation. But
it's done from the point of view of cause and effect.
The former head of General Dynamics committed suicide two weeks ago.
Lamodi coup Kou shot himself in the head. You had
Wismer Wisner, Frank Weisner was deputy plans Deputy for plans

(23:35):
at the CIA. AE Sedgwich here the guy who was
on the international trademark here and all. Yeah, Sedgwick killed himself.
Shall we start to list like Penn Jones? But one
of suicide. Hedgwick was with the Cordell Hull Foundation, which
was one of the outlets for the CIA. And also
he wasn't of the employers of wasn't he one of

(23:58):
the employers of the Harvey oswell before he went into
the Marines. Yeah, he was connected with that import export firm. Ooh, ew,
he's talking about two Jaigus. That's crazy. He was the
real owner of it. Ooh, so two Jaggs wasn't the
owner of two Jaggs? What the fuck? Ae Sedgwick. That's
the guy's name, Ae Sedgwick. That's right, Hedwick was the

(24:22):
real owner. Sedgwick was a real owner. That's right. We
just came across that recently and I forgot about it. Well,
there you are. That's the import export business that Oswald
was referring to in Los Angeles while he's still in
the Marines. So Hedgwick knew something about what was happening.
Didn't Lee Harvey work for them before he went into
the Marines in fifty two? Now that's not correct. He'd
not work for them in fifty fucking two. Fifty two,

(24:44):
let me see where you have been fifty two. He
was still in fucking New York at eleven years old
or twelve years old, So get your dates right, Jim, uh, Jim,
what was Cosmo Shipping Company? Is that for real? That's
a good point because there were several during which uh
I was a world leading expert on the Cosmo Shipping company.
And you can ask Bill because I found things wrong
that lead to many other things. But I never stopped

(25:06):
to think, is there a Cosmo Shipping Company? I think
it's in the Sigali building. I don't think it's there
as much of a firm that could have been your
front operation. But the references, including Charles LeBlanc, the man
who promptly announced afterwards that Oswald was no good They
had to get rid of him. Charles LeBlanc is at
this practically intelligence operation. He gives wrong addresses for them.

(25:29):
There's something curious about the Cosmo Shipping Company application. It
doesn't ring true. I just wonder what the Cosmo Shipping
company is at this point. I don't know. It's a
question I never asked. I think it's a good question.
I have a huge long list of CIA front's back
in Washington. I'll check it out, but I don't call anything.
I think it's probably small. It's probably ad hoc. There's

(25:51):
a pretty long list. Is still is still there? Do
you know Jim the Cosmo? I don't know. I have
to take a look. I have a nineteen sixty three book,
you see. I don't think it is. If you had
to pick ten names of guys who would really like
to go after hottest and heaviest, what names would you pick?
You mean in terms of individuals, Well, I think I
would take them in regard to who we expose, so

(26:13):
to speak, in a sense that their positions are indefensible.
Cosmo Shipping one oh seven Camp, the Sigali Building. I'll
tell you something that's interesting there that leads back to
lou Davis. The Cigali Building, Sigali. It's in Oswald's notebook.
It was kind of interesting. He's a pretty live character.
In other words, it is possibly that Gault was on
his way to the Cosmo Shipping Company for all we know.

(26:34):
And Hedgewish Hedgwick Sedgewick. Sorry, remember it's phonetic. I'm trying
to interpret it. He owned the other import export company,
two Jaigu's now two jaig Is turn was in turn
was on the border directors of the list of incorporators
forming the Friends of Democratic Cuba. See, we got one
huge structure here. Really, it isn't that huge. Well, one

(26:55):
part connects with the other in a sense. You can
go in a circle. Isn't that huge? You're right, you
end up looking at Friends of Democratic Cuba. And then
you see banister tug Grady Durham. William Dalzell had keys
at the post office, just like all Thegethers Dalzell associates.
And then he lived in the American Embassy in Rome.
He was aid in uh oh, he was holy shit.

(27:17):
Bill Dalzell was connected with USAID and Ethiopia. That's Wagga
wagg and wild speaks Swahili, half a dozen languages. Very
tough very cool. I spent an hour with him in
the grand jury. He knows nothing at all about the
Central Intelligence Agency. He went to Georgetown, speaks half a
dozen languages, merely lived in the American Embassy in Rome,
merely had a company called Dalzell Associates in Washington, d C.

(27:39):
And I said, what are you doing now? He said,
I'm busy working with a Ethiopian oil company. Does he
know you had an Ethiopian pipeline coming in here? He
knows all about CIA because he knew exactly what buildings
there are near the Lincoln Memorial. The Old Wave Barracks
were used by the agency back in the early forties.
He knows that was the Clandestine Operation training center at

(28:00):
that time. He admitted it to me. There are some
people you can do almost nothing with. Though he's won.
He said he was signal COREP intelligence. About this fellow
who went with the American Medical Association Political Action Group
in Chicago. Anybody hit them up. Who's that? He's a
guy like Dalzell. He was in the newspaper men in India.

(28:22):
He was a newspaperman in India. Richard Baldwin, Yeah, it's
Ed Baldwin's brother, he's CIA. Dalzell was mentioned on the
part of the Fairy notes that he got xerox two,
isn't he Yep? He is? Yep. We could tie the
CIA right with Banister Atlanta right Winger Operations. That's the
closest tie we've got the CIA. He has it misspelled.

(28:43):
He called him by his nickname. What's that, Billy Littlehorse?
Hang on, Billy little Horse was an alias for fucking Dalzell.
But see this one throws me out for a loop
because you got Rose Sheeremi's brother was Roch. Sheamy's brother

(29:05):
also had a fucking weird name like that, like little
Horse or something like that. Roe Sheamy's brother totally tied
in with CIA. That's right. Sure. Speaking about Baldwin, Baldwin
went to India and used the cover of being a
newspaper reporter. But Baldwin's it was very close to Clay
Shaw previous to that, and then when he came back

(29:25):
he got a job in Chicago, so he's definitely company,
but he's a connection with Shaw. He may be trying
to get out of the company. I don't know. That
would be nice to find somebody who was that would
talk a historic event whatever does is not going to
live long. I think that's what it is. It's not
much the paper they signed as the discipline by murder.

(29:46):
Don't you think so, Bill, That's very persuasive. Garrison says, well,
the thing about these falls from six story windows is
you don't always die of a heart attack like the guy,
but you live with these terrible headaches. Can't you see
a doctor or something? Well, how long you've been having
these headaches? The safest thing in the world is to
be a communist in New Orleans. You get a lot
of doctor and a lot of police protection. The safest

(30:10):
place seems to be Russia because the premiere of Russia
can actually go shopping among crowds and everything. Can you
imagine Lyndon Johnson or any president doing that? They tear
them apart. I was thinking about what you said about
putting the antlers on you. The other possibility is sending
you to Spain and putting a pair of horns on you, you know,
and sending him into the bull ring. That was important
because of Belly's roll. It showed how they can pick

(30:32):
anybody from any city, any occupation they want, paint a
scenario with any colors they want almost any time. That's
why I think it was imperative when I had my
operation that I go into a small hospital with one
very good surgeon where we had a controlled situation. But
a major hospital, God knows how many doctors are CIA,
there's no telling. They come up with lawyers as fast

(30:54):
as they can, as fast as they need them, doctors, corners,
anything they want. They also use the guy who's the
son of a judge with an Italian sounding name. That's
why you can't let these individual costumes fool you. In
the final analysis, you're dealing with the government. I know
Medina Medina now that may be in that firm. When

(31:16):
we get back to the discussion of individuals, sometimes we
lose our perspective unless you keep in mind the government background.
What's going to happen with the Supreme Court? Now are
they going to what are they going to do? They're
going to keep the case locked up, probably until last May,
which will give the government plenty of time to work
out a solution to the problem. They're probably going to

(31:36):
give it your next election campaign. They aren't going to
let it go to trial. There's no way that he
can be acquitted, and that they have to know that
by now. I've been saying that there will not be
a trial privately for about a year. When we closed
the door on him and made a case that was
the last chance for a trial. Have you considered the

(31:57):
alternatives in the case trying to one of your lesser characters.
We intend to do that, but we cannot take a
chance on anything less than assure this thing. The others
are pretty good cases, but I would say the strongest
case off hand would be Thornley. But I anticipate when
the time comes that we will encounter problems getting him

(32:17):
to trial that are not now predictable, things that come up.
I think my non hearing may help if we can
get to it. I think that's what's going to happen,
because that gets it laid out on the table somewhere
in a sexy fashion. We have a control problem here.
You're the DA of a big city. Well, the government
has ways of delaying cases. They've got a way of

(32:40):
getting people unelected to I can't worry about that. It
wouldn't bother me. It would sure put you out of business.
Is that a promise? When is your next election? I
haven't the slightest idea I haven't given that any thought,
just like I don't answer criticism by critics. I do
nothing but move ahead the next year or two, I guess.
But idea I found kids kind of intriguing about maybe Warren.

(33:03):
If Warren and Forts do not rescue themselves in this
clay Shaw thing that is now coming before them, it
seems to me you ought to argue that point before
the Supreme Court and get all the publicity you can get.
If you need a volunteer to help you, I will
be glad to do it. Garrison says, thank you very much.
But I think they will handle it so the question
won't come up. I think you're right. But if either

(33:26):
of them refuses to refute repute themselves, you make a
motion that they do so they wouldn't let us get
a bite on it. Well, that would be stupid if
they did. On the other hand, Warren refusing himself allows
shows that he shouldn't have taken the redacted in the
first place. And Fortos now listen, he can't refuse himself

(33:47):
otherwise he'd admit he had some kind of Fortis would
have a problem, wouldn't he The very fact that he'd
refuse himself why Warren couldn't do it. Yes, but don't
just go for Warren, go for Fortis too. I already
brought that up. My lawyer, who was one of the
most distinguished lawyers in New Orleans, the biggest practice in
New Orleans, who was volunteered to represent us, immediately said

(34:07):
it was a mistake mentioning Fordas's name. I said, it
wasn't a mistake at all. It was necessary to mention it.
He said, no, you made a mistake. The point is
that this is the way lawyers think. You're right. You
have to go for Fortis right away. I did it immediately,
and I still had to explain to my attorney what
the point was, because the law is irrelevant. This is
what it's about. This is play acting. Talking about the

(34:30):
to Fortress was like talking about this to Fortress was
like talking about the law to guys on the Grassy Knoll.
And Thornberry too, Yeah, isn't that unbelievable. Well, Thornberry would
have to recuse himself, as having been the one to
try Neguel, it would be better to handle it generally.
You would ask him to recuse himself because of his

(34:50):
relationship with Richard Miguel that's the only way to do it,
you know, they used to. They used that big weight though.
They used Leon Juwarski in Houston to get Fannie Hudkins
fired from the Houston Post right after his story. Goddamn
those letters. How would Lonnie be as a witness. Lonnie's
story about the FBI informant is routine, Boxley says, yeah,

(35:12):
right after he told that, Jaworski came over and they
fired him. Now he's back at the post. That's Johnson's man. Well,
if he's back at the post, he probably wouldn't be
a very good volunteer. No, I don't think he would.
Seth Cantor might make a pretty good witness if I
can get him to come. Do you know him vaguely?
I've met him. Does he still sign the White House?

(35:32):
I don't know. But he's a gutsy sort of guy.
There's some indication though that Bobby was one too many
for the post too. Chicago struck the post real hard
and closed doors that maybe cracking a little bit if
we could take advantage of them. I think you all
ought to take a look at some of this amous
Heaton tomorrow. I think you'll find it fascinating. Is there

(35:54):
more of it published? Yeah, but he's going to have
it put into publishable form. But he's dynamite and the
only way is the only way you can describe it
by a man who spent years seeing this operation, it
says he sees the industrial complex more clearly than anybody
I've talked with or read. As a matter of fact,
if it can be put in manageable form, it would

(36:14):
be the most important to have it published. But at
the same time, the government would have to fight it
tooth and nail. I bet his publisher couldn't even buy
the paper to print on it, print it on. I
really think that this would be the problem. I'll tell
you how he asked, how it has to go for
the jugular vein the name of it is that assassinations
of the industrial state. And it just starts right off

(36:34):
with the warfare structure and goes into it with the
names of individuals, the Washington Operation, the Vietnam War, and
it Actually he's got an overload of truth on his hands. Billy,
you might have to go. You might have some good
ideas about what can be done with this guy. Guy's
dug up. Maybe it can be harnessed. Sorry, my goddamn
phones ringing in the fucking background. No one ever fucking

(36:57):
calls me ever, and then someone calls me during the show.
So let's wrap up this page and what we'll be
done with it for the day bill. You might have
some good ideas about what can be done with this,
you guys dug out. Maybe it can be harnessed. Ramparts
can publish it, yep. In other words, it's harnessing problems
and it comes out in torrents. You find yourself. You
can open any page. But he's digging into new areas.
He's been doing it for years, but he's never connected

(37:19):
it until Bobby Kennedy was killed, and then he started
putting it into place here. He had done the work.
I imagine his phone is monitored by now. I wrote
him back, but I couldn't send in the material I
wanted because I figured that they got this outcoming letter
to me, and one way or the other, I was
asking Bud why he didn't answer a question I posed
to him in a letter three weeks ago. It hasn't arrived.

(37:42):
It hasn't arrived, I said. All of his photographs back
from the Senate, specially wrapped and somebody took a sledgehammer
to the package. Literally, yeah, they took this ring here.
It's a new binder because the ring on the old
one was all bent and ripped completely out. And you
have some sort of strength to do that. Maybe we
should start using railway express or some other means of communication.
Does the Senate usually have trouble with mail like that? No,

(38:04):
they don't. Very rarely that does happen because when it happens,
normally it's the post office department that gets pretty nasty
call and they and they like to see that it
doesn't happen. I bet they got a lot of phone
monitoring and stuff like that. The bureau had this thing
on the switchboard for many years, but that has never
been torn out. Did your secretary do the packaging? I

(38:26):
personally went down and saw it done because I wanted
it wrapped right. But it's obviously a waste of time.
We have a wrapping room. Well, it was rewrapped when
I got it. Well that's nice. I've got to go. Now,
what's the schedule for the morning. You're all going to
take a trip, aren't you? Can we go down to
the office and look over some of the stuff. No
contract lou Ivan and tell them up, tell them to

(38:48):
open it up. We'll contact lou Ivan and tell them
to open it up. We can do one or the other.
Not going to use over Mississippi. If we don't call ahead,
well why don't we call and see if she's amenable'll
go there. If not, we'll go down to the office.
I got a few things to pick up with you,
but I mean to do that later on because it leads.
It's leads that will go on and on and on.

(39:09):
All right, So it looks like this day is over.
It's page one hundred and eighty and the next day
will start, which is great because I didn't think we
had any more notes reference additional days. But we're going
to pick this up on probably Thursday, and yeah, that's
going to do it for me today. Guys, Remember the
new book is finished. It will be out within the
next week or so. Also, we launched independent Media token.

(39:32):
You guys can go check that out independentmediatoken dot com.
We're funding independent media. What else do I got going
on Tomorrow night? I'm speaking in Denver in downtown Denver
at the Liberty on the Rocks meetup. I'm doing about
an hour on Kennedy. I guess so, but that's going
to do it for me today. Guys. I'll be back
on Thursday and I will see you then. Thanks,

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