Garrison-Sprague New Orleans Conference 9/21/68 Part 11

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good morning, everybody, Corey used Bloody History. So, ladies and gentlemen,
my new book is out. It is available on Amazon.
It is called Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White,
Volume one, and it highlights Oswald's life up until the
time he joins the Marines on October twenty fourth, nineteen
fifty six. It is truly an unbelievable tale that I

(00:27):
tell in this book, and it is something that everybody
needs to pick up because if you don't understand Oswald,
you can't understand the assassination. Even though they're two completely
unrelated stories. When you see all the things they say
about Oswald and the alleged history they put on him,
when you come to realize that it's mostly manufactured, it

(00:49):
changes the whole game. So yeah, everybody, go on Amazon
pick up my new book, Corey Hughes, not Corey's Bloody History.
It's Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White, and yeah,
I'm really proud of it. It's getting some really excellent
feedback and it is the first of many volumes to come.
There will be at least four in the series. Because

(01:10):
each book is going to cover an era of Oswald's life.
You have Oswald up till he joins the Marines, and
that's when all the obfuscation begins. And then you have
Oswald in the Marines, then you have Oswald in the
Soviet Union, and then you have Oswald from sixty two
June sixty two until the end. And so I don't

(01:34):
know what to expect when I get to the book
on Russia. I just don't. I know that there's some
major fuckery going on there, but I don't know how
I know. Harvey Le Oswald is the name on the
application for the Russian citizenship which got rejected. So I
don't know what to expect when I get there, because
I am pretty confident that Lee Oswald's completely out of
the picture by September fifty nine. The photograph that is

(01:58):
taken at the passport office September tenth, fifty nine, that,
as far as I know, is the last photograph of
Oswald ever taken. Now we have the other os the
other photograph of Oswald when Robert Oswald took the picture
when they were out hunting at the Mercer farm. But
he's changed the date on that multiple times. It was

(02:20):
originally February fifty eight, then December fifty eight and then
September fifty nine. I don't think it could be September
fifty nine. It has to be earlier because September tenth,
Oswald is photographed with a very clean, high and tight haircut,
and that's not what we see in the photograph of

(02:41):
Oswald at the Mercer farm. That photograph if it was
taken after being hypothetical here, because it's impossible now that
I think about it, it's genuinely impossible. It would have
had to have been a month or two, maybe a
month after the passport photo because of the length of
the hair has grown out, so it couldn't have been

(03:02):
Then could it have been December of fifty eight, Well,
obviously there was a problem with December of fifty eight,
because that's why fucking Robert Oswald changed the story, because
he became aware of a problem with that that we
don't We're not aware of because Oswald did go on
a two week leave from the military December fifty eight

(03:24):
through the first week or two of January fifty nine,
and so I don't know why there'd be a problem
with Robert Oswald having taken that picture December fifty eighth,
and why he would have changed that date. Well, Oswald
gets back to the state's December twenty second, he would
have been back and fort Worth by like the twenty
fourth or twenty fifth Christmas, right for Christmas, And so

(03:47):
it totally makes sense that he would have taken that
picture December fifty eight. But here's here's where another problem
might arise. It maybe not fit December fifty eight because
when you compare the pictures of Oswald in late fifty
eight to that picurey, you can tell it doesn't look
the same, not that it's a different person, but that
he's much older in the picture on the Mercer farm.

(04:08):
So yeah, we have some major major questions surrounding when
that last photograph was taken, because if that's the last photograph,
that's the last photograph. If that was taken after the
Passport office photo, then it's the last photograph. But I
don't As I'm speaking these words, it's I'm becoming more
and more convinced that could not have been then at all.

(04:28):
Had to have been prior And if he changed the
date from December of fifty eight, it had to have
been somewhere in the middle there. Oh fuck. So if
it's somewhere sandwiched in the middle between December and September
of fifty eight. When could it have been. It couldn't
have been because he was in the Marines in training.

(04:51):
So yeah, lots of questions. We don't have any answers.
This is the story of my life. But they were
going to continue on with the Garrison document. We're beginning
on side number eleven, which is actually coinciding with episode
eleven of this series, page one to eighty one, And

(05:11):
so they're coming back from this is the next day.
If I'm not mistaken, they met one day and then
this is the next day. They're coming back. This might
even be the third day, because it was a three
or four day conference. So Fensterwald says, okay, now you
can give me your theory of the assassination, and Boxley says,

(05:33):
all I'm saying is for brainstorming. And then there's a redaction.
I don't know why the fuck there's a redaction in
a Garrison document, redacted that we ought to consider the
connections of people who pop up. Now they're logical or
what's cut off logically is very little connection with the CIA.
We got people who say they were CIA. We got
novelle Larry Smith, who was said to have served in

(05:55):
the CIA. Larry Smith is the name. I don't know
anybody out there want to do some research on a
Larry Smith connected to this thing. We got Bill Dowes,
who I would guess is CIA from what he told
the operations, but those are very, very few and far between.
What we do have is a plethora of solid evidence
that the O and I and the FBI were involved

(06:16):
in this thing from the minute Oswald got back to
Fort Worth, and particularly and heavily after he arrived in
New Orleans. These characters we can tie either to Bureau
or OENI time and time again. So I can talk
like this. It gives credence to the rumors that I'm
still a CIA agent trying to protect the company. Well,
to tell you the honest truth, I wish to hell

(06:37):
I were, because then i'd know where my next meal
was coming from. You know something, I fucking can totally
relate to that statement that he just made. Totally relate
to that, But unfortunately I haven't a dime from then
since nineteen fifty three, and I ain't likely to get one.

(06:57):
Fensterwald says, you're like to get something else from them,
though not as quickly as I might from the bureau.
Let's take a look at it as Boxley look at
the philosophies of the two organizations. And I didn't buy
this either. When Dick Billings threw is through this at
me a year ago in Dallas, he got real disgusted
with me in the summer of sixty seven, he said, Shit,

(07:19):
what's the matter with you talking CIA? He said, I
was close to the agency, and he said, you were
in it. And you've got to know like I do,
that most of these guys are fairly liberal in their beliefs. Damn.
Connecting the liberals with the CIA way back then, we're
just kind of crazy because Morales and those whole fucking
guys were all ultra right wingers. So who the fuck knows.

(07:41):
It seems like maybe these parallels are still there today
that were there back then. Maybe there is a left
right paradigm fighting with each other back then, something we
don't really consider. When we think of Kennedy assassination. We
just kind of look at the government. We're like, Oh,
they're all guilty because they're government. Well that's true, but
at the same time, it's not true. So it's interesting

(08:05):
to consider the left right paradigm and how that could
have applied to the assassination. Right, all right, so well,
I think that's true. On the other hand, I have
to run into some of the agents of the CIA
who are very conservative in their beliefs. I don't think
you can generalize. Doesn't it have to two definite wings

(08:28):
to it? Boxley says, yeah, But they're intermixed. They don't have.
I never saw any case where they had all conservative
one side or one type of operation on one type
of operation they say, and the liberals on the other.
I think they are interchanged quite a bit. But who
benefited and who had the basic motivations that crop up
time and time again, things like continuing the Holy War

(08:49):
against Communism? Without that, there would be no need for
the FBI in the public eye, right, They don't collect
that many stolen cars. Another factor involved is that after
the Bay of Pig, Kennedy said he was going to
break up the CIA because of this professor who the
Yale professor wasn't who came back and the CIA swore
he was not an agent. He said to Kennedy, Yes

(09:10):
he was an agent. Anyhow, who was that Yarmolinsky. I
can't remember his name. It was the Harvard Yerale professor
who went to Russia and who was incarcerated. His name
was Bogan Herder or something like that. B E A
U G E N H E R d E R.
But remember that's phonetic. Wasn't he traded the day before

(09:32):
Kennedy was assassinated or something like that. No, Kennedy demanded
written assurance from McCowan that this guy was not CIA,
and the agency gave Kennedy written assurance. And the guy
gets back from Russia and they recuperated him and he
tells Kennedy he was an actual agent. Then what happened.
Kennedy is then supposed to have said, this is the
last straw. When was this? This is some while before Dallas, Yeah,

(09:55):
it was during sixty three. He was going to break
it up and scatter it to the winds or something
like that. This is the straw that broke the camel's back.
That's what he's quoted as saying. One more deception and
a long line of them. Boxley says, so let's assume
that he had started it because he had named he
had named Bobby, and they were creating the Defense Intelligence Agency.

(10:17):
They were taking over networks into Cuba. Theoretically, they would
not have used any existing CIA networks because there would
have been so much chance for penetration and double agent stuff,
So they had to be creating their own. And that's
what Warren Debries and Regis Kennedy were doing down there
in New Orleans. They were establishing networks out of New

(10:37):
Orleans into Cuba. They were very closely cooperating with the
Office of Naval Intelligence. Sorry, I'm just saying, I'm pausing
because I'm trying to incorporate this. This is this is
to be expected, right, I didn't realize the connection to

(11:00):
Naval Intelligence via Regis Kennedy and even Warren Debrize. Those
are those guys who are corrupt FBI agents. That's the
main story. I've only done superficial research on them. But
I can tell you that Regius Kennedy's a fucking liar
because he puts David Ferry in New Orleans on twenty second,
So he's a fucking scumbag. Let me continue, and Guy

(11:23):
Johnson and fucking Guy Johnson, Guy Johnson, Jim, remind me
to dig into Guy Johnson place. I need to get
that done. Guy Johnson is seemingly a name that keeps
coming up. Excuse me, but you had a peculiar whipsaw
action here because the CIA, which is not supposed to
operate domestically, was operating domestically, and the Bureau, which is

(11:43):
not supposed to operate overseas, was operating in Cuba and overseas.
So you've got two renegade agencies here boxing, each of
them fighting for a bigger pieces of the other's territory.
The FBI tracking everybody, every CIA type they could find. Yeah,
a lot of peaching going on, whatever that means. Boxley says, Okay. Now,

(12:05):
since they couldn't use CIA nets, they had obstensively to
retire to rely on ONI nets, And the ONI was
running its own networks through New Orleans and Miami, basically
out of Guantanamo, through New Orleans back into Havana, and
through Miami back into Havana. So this ex agent that
I talked with out in Dallas named Bob Jones. Yes,

(12:29):
there was a very close cooperation between FBI and O
and I in all their operations worldwide, much closer than
FBI CIA. Now we've got another factor involved, and that's racism.
We've got the Holy War against Communism and we've got racism.
The Bureau more or less fits those patterns more than
CIA does. We have Hoover, who haunted Bobby because Bobby

(12:52):
told him to get his ass out of the chair
and come to his office when he sent for him. Now,
this to Hoover was a greater reason to assassinate a
man as maybe a loss of twenty billion dollars in
war contracts. That was the motivation. Right there. We've got
Hoover saying that Martin Luther King is the biggest threat
in the world. We've got all the far right wing
structure idealizing Hoover and hating Martin Luther King, and hating

(13:15):
Bobby Kennedy and hating Jack Kennedy. Now this takes in
everything from your top millionaires we're supposed to facilitate between
Rockefeller and Nixon right on the right to General Walker.
And I think that's about as far right as you
can get. But all that specter, which has been growing
considerably stronger ever since the assassination nationwide, I think is

(13:35):
going to liket the next president, whether we like it
or not. This entire spectrum of people compromise, the McIntyre
religious networks, the little offbeat churches, the extreme right wing
fundamentalism of the right wing of the religions, the created
funds and the recipients of the right wing propaganda that's
exemplified by your Circuit Rider organization, by the NSRP, by

(13:59):
Young Americas for Freedom, by all this multitude of stuff
that Banister was involved in, very close to now. What
I think actually happened was this, the Bureau couldn't go
after overseas operations under the name of the Bureau. It
couldn't pull some of the stuff domestically because it didn't
have jurisdiction and there would be political criticisms from the liberals.

(14:20):
Are you saying that perhaps something like the Anti Communism
League of the Caribbean was a bureau clandestine front. It
was a Bureau operation, right. I think the Bureau created
it its own superstructure of right wing nut cover and
then infiltrated it with ex agents whereever it was necessary.

(14:41):
And then fenzer Wald asks, was our kotcha part of this?
Boxley says, well, I don't know whether our would fit
this or CIA, but with the protection that's been given Arcotcia.
If it's true that he did in fact manage some
stuff for Hunt, I would assume that he's closer to
the Bureau than he is to Cia. WHOA, ooh wow.

(15:05):
The dominoes of implications here are unfucking believable. That directly
connects the FBI to fucking Marcello. I'll go along with
that logic on hunt Well Hunt and Rothermel. Who's Rothermel.
Rothermel is an ex FBI agent who spent about six
or eight years in the Bureau and came to Hunt

(15:26):
as his right hand man in security in clandestine operations.
What's this ust and coffee company bunch? I don't know, boy,
that's a beauty, the US coffee and tea company. He's
president of whatever it is. How do you spell Rothermel
r O T H E R M E L. Now.
I think in the beginning, that is, in June of
sixty seven, Rothermel was giving me some straight steers because

(15:50):
at that time they still had hope that Jim was
gonna tie this can through. Uh communists, let me see
through the Fitch and Mary Ferrell and others. See Mary Ferrell.
Fuck Mary Ferrell. Let me reread this paragraph. I'm confused now.
I think at the beginning, that is, in June of

(16:10):
sixty seven, Rothermel was giving me some straight steers, because
at that time they still had hoped that Jim was
going to tie this can to the communist tales and
they could swing the Garrison approach through Fitch and Mary
Ferrell and others. But at the very beginning, I think
he was leveling with me to a great extent, especially
in such things. He takes me in to see the hunt,

(16:32):
to see Hunt, and I had known him for a
couple of years prior to joining Garrison. I'd fallen into
him on another operation. And I have good reason to
believe that they actually owned that newspaper, the Houston Tribune,
that I was editor of at the time I quit
and came over here and joined Garrison. I supposedly had
liberalized the paper, but I found that the minute Men

(16:57):
and the NSRP were not going to tolerate a liberalization.
I thought that Washington Star Service. I thought, well, at
least I can get by with these columnists, and said,
by God Almighty, he's brought a bunch of communists in
that will give you an idea of how far right
they are. I threw out Robert Moss, and that was
a mistake that didn't endear me any to them anymore either.

(17:20):
And Morrissey Rankin, Alice Widner, and a bunch. So it
was doomed, a doomed project from the beginning. Guys in
the research chat, just take note of these names, please,
So it was doomed project from the beginning. But anyhow,
Rothermel takes me into Hunt and he says, this is
Bill Wood. He's an ex CIA agent, and he doesn't

(17:41):
like the CIA any better than we do. Well, he
had no reason to say that because I never thought
ill of the CIA, much less spoken ill of them,
because frankly, they treated me rather nicely. They gave me
every break that I could logically have expected. And I
never had a heart on for the agency. The on
the Tribune, I had written quite strongly in support of
the agency and this NSA thing that was when NSA

(18:04):
was new, because I believe that they need left wing
penetration and the only way you're going to get that
is to penetrate the left wing. Anyhow, Hunt says, oh fine,
And that was the password for Hunt. It was quite
amenable to sitting down and pointing out two or three
people he considered to be Communists who probably ran the

(18:26):
operation and we ought to look into. You know, well,
it's an entirely gratuitous remark on Rotheramel's part because I
never given him any reason to think that I was
anti CIA. He came up with some stuff on the
CIA deaths. Apparently they're getting through a Washington contact. They
take a little four page pamphlet called The Observer. Is

(18:48):
the same one you were talking about, It's a four
page tabloid seven by nine type thing. No, the one
I'm talking about is the Washington Examiner, Oh, Roy Chalk,
and it's a weekly paper. You're talking about one of
these newsletters Boxley. Yeah, Well, apparently they have someone in
the Agency or in the Bureau feeding them information because
this involves some deaths of people in the Bulgarian desks,

(19:10):
in the Hungarian desk, and maybe it was the Yugoslav
desk I've forgotten, but there were three of them involved.
But in sitting down and working with them over the
period of several months, I learned that all their contacts
are with the Bureau. Now. The first day that Rothermel
and I went to have lunch. He said, I'll tell
you something confidentially if you ever repeat me. I didn't

(19:30):
say it. He said, I don't know what Lee Harvey.
They call him Harvey Lee Oswald. And this is an
interesting point if you just someday get time to make
notes of everyone who calls them Harvey Lee instead of
Lee Harvey. But he says, I don't know whether he
was CIA or FBI. But I know for a fact
Jack Ruby was on the FBI payroll. Now Rothermel would

(19:52):
know because he's in a daily contact with every FBI
agent in Dallas. Well, it's logically logical that they would
have had Ruby listed. You have to use a little
perspective in these things. The bureau puts pressure on the
agents to get so many criminal informants and so many
potential criminal informants. And if you don't have at least
one criminal informant in three PCIs as they call them,

(20:13):
you know you're hauled on the carpet. And what the hell,
why can't you develop informance? So what guys will do
is they will talk to some guy like a nightclub
owner or a bar owner, just ideal, and they will
go shoot the breeze with them, and then they will
write them up as a PCI, saying this man is
in a position to furnish information on the fringe element
on the Dallas scene, and the guy may not be

(20:35):
giving him anything but a little dallop here and a
dallop there, and yet they will carry him along as
a papered thing to keep up this quota system of
PCIs and CIS. But of course it could have been
much more of a significance than that. That's a fucking
goddamn really interesting thing that he just said, really interesting.

(20:59):
The implications of that are pretty profound as well, being
that maybe they were lying about Jack Grub being an
FBI in format and he just made the list to
make the list. But I think we know that's not true, right,
Boxy says, Well, it would have had to be to
protect Ruby from the Internal Revenue Service. He had to

(21:20):
be either CIA FBI, because the IRS was breathing down
his neck and they could have dropped him through the
floor a long time ago, but they didn't. Finsterwald asks,
how do you know this, box He says, just reading
stuff from the volumes. They got all these multitudinous calls
on him, by the irs. They were investigating him back
and forth for years, two or three years prior to
the assassination, but somebody kept them afloat, and it could

(21:43):
have been CIA, or it could have been the FBI.
His basic potential leanings, Ruby's were much more in line
with the Bureaus and its philosophies and with the CIA
and its philosophy. Finsterwald Well, on the other hand, Ruby
had all sorts of half assed mob connections and was
pretty much a freewheeler, And it seems to me CIA

(22:05):
might have made more use of him than the Bureau
would have. Right, but that brings up the mob. Who's
closest to the mob, CIA or FBI. It's hard to say,
except the Bureau could have stamped out the Mob twenty
years ago if it wanted to. Then what would you do? Then?
What would it do? Hell, it's a hunt. It's hunting communists.
It's not after organized crime. It's picking up stolen cars

(22:26):
through police departments, and it's after communists. The man act occasionally,
but they could have put the mob down a long
time ago if they had wanted to. It was something
that Hoover just never had any elon for and it
maybe even goes a little deeper than from what I've
learned lately. Box he says, I think it goes deeper
from what I was told as CIA. I think it's CIA.

(22:48):
What are you talking about that Hoover didn't go after
the mob because he had mob connections of his own,
such as l Harsh for some reason. Oh man, there's
a couple of names here that seem to be like
typed over. Let me see if I can't like decipher this,
I feel like a anti spy cryptographer for like thirty seconds.

(23:11):
Hang on the second, Uh, the odds days liquor something
about liquor, the odd days lick? Yeah, the oh no,
the something something, the something that looks like because there's
multiple words typed over this thing. I see th H
six O L L D S D A Y something

(23:36):
days lickor something days lickor that's typed over. I don't
know why it's typed over. Good old days, good old
days liquor. That's what it says, the good old days liquor.

(23:57):
That's exactly what it is. I don't know what the
fuck the good old day's liquor is. And the next
set of words contacts something now l harsh for one thing,

(24:17):
the Good Old Day's liquor something something now President g
and Kanna in Chicago, in of the Beverly Hills National Bank.
All right, so at least I got the Good Old
Day's liquor out of that. I don't know. I can't
really and something something wise or hose uh something O

(24:39):
s E. But wise is w I is he has
taped s he has taped typed over it. So I
don't know. I will figure it out and I'll get
back to Let me screenshot this because it's weird. But
the good Old days liquor whatever the fuck? That is

(25:02):
something something something, President Giancanna in Chicago, of the Beverly
Hills National Bank. And every time Hoover goes out to
the West Coast he sees his good friend al Hart.
You start getting some rumble. Al Hart, that's the name
al Hart. A L h A R. T. Boxley says,

(25:24):
it's a funny thing of how a guy who could
go after the mob gets in a position to and
then he won't take Hundley. Bill Hundley, for example, we
flat caught the Houston oilers. But Adam's personally blurting out
in front of seven of us that he had gambled
on the Ball and Chain Club and that its games

(25:46):
were fixed through Charlie Blander at the quarterback. He didn't
mean to say it, but he got nervous and he
said it. Blander was sharing points and laying off, shaving
points and laying off bets through a trucking company in Chicago,
I think it was Reaedler, where he used to work
the truck leasing outfit. I got in touch with Hundley

(26:08):
because we wanted to break the story, and by then
he was security man for Pete Rozelle. Would you haul
on just a couple of days until I can get
down there and talk with you. He said, I've got
some background on it. I'm working on the same thing,
and we're going to clean it up and we'll do
it together. Fine, I'll wait a couple of days. Well,
that was a weekly paper, and so I waited a week,

(26:28):
and the next week I called him back and he
said I couldn't make the trip, but I'm on my way. Well,
this kind of stalling went on for five or six weeks.
I got tapes from the calls to Hundley. He never
did show up, and Finally they got Adams in such
a position and a couple of the guys heard him
make the statement that there was no point in going
any further with it. The fact is Hunley was hushing

(26:51):
it up rather than bringing it out, and we had
him tied with the mafia there in Houston. We had
the whole works right down there to where they met.
They put the heat on TV sportscaster in Houston. They
tried to get him with gals and tried to bag
him with the booze and all in all the mafia hangouts.
Does Roselle know this? Hunley knows damn well because I

(27:13):
told him. Does Roselle know this? Boxley says, I don't
know if. Honestly, I don't know if you're talking about
Roseelle or Roselle, because it's a big difference in implication.
This I don't know. But we got that instance. Then
we have an instance in Dallas in which the season
before last, the Murkansons took a plane with a bunch
of top players out to the Binghams in Las Vegas. Binyon,

(27:37):
that's probably what it's probably what he means, Binion. Benny
Binyon's was a he was a big guy in Las
Vegas at the time. They were out there with some
hundred dollars a night gals for about three nights like that.
Let's say, where can I find me one hundred dollars
a night gal? That's fucking hilarious. I think the Mafia's
connections stand out all over pro football. Do you know

(27:59):
whom Bill Hunley has been taking money from recently? No,
I haven't heard any more of him since I was
up in Boston. What's he doing? Do you know from
where he's been taking money? Who? Life Magazine? I called
him the other day and asked him to confirm it
for what for writing on Cornelius Gallagher? As near as

(28:20):
I can tell anyway, he said that he had legal
fees from Life Magazine. And I asked if he was
still working for Pete Rozzell and he said yes most
of the time. Boxy says, in view of our relationship
with life, that's very interesting. Life run by a CIA.
By the way, Fenser Waald says, well, go ahead with
the result of your Boxy goes back to the CIA

(28:40):
and FBI. We get all these instances that we discussed tonight,
in which players in this cast can be directly tied
to either OH and I or the Bureau. I personally
think that the key figure in the entire New Orleans
operation was Guy Banister. I've got such things for this
as for example, as this Banister operators, and he itemized
them T one, two, three, and up up to ten

(29:02):
or so. Plus he gave others codes like Dagel. Now
we've managed to find out who Dagel is. D A. G. E.
L L is what it says, but members phonetics, so
it might not be, but we have information. We managed
to find out who Dagel was. But this informant ran
into an operation involving Tanka Airlines. No, not to Tonka,

(29:27):
that's not right. What sounds like Tanka, but was a
CIA airline. I don't know, I'll think about it. And
Banister was a great one for sitting down and writing
himself a memo to the file that's Bureau and Indoctrination
Box says, Yeah, here's a three page memo relating to
the story roughly of how Tanka plane comes in from

(29:51):
somewhere with the stewardess on it and they're headed for
Nicaragua or maybe it's the Dominican Republic. I've forgotten, but
I got copies of the memo, and there is something
about the plane. When she gets off, she winds up
with an envelope in her purse that she didn't even
know she had, and she tries to get rid of it,
and the pilot of the plane tells her, no, just
keep it. You're supposed to deliver it to the station

(30:12):
manager in the next port a call. The envelope was
given her for delivery by a passenger on the plane.
The whole thing smacks of an unwitting courier. Is that
what is? And that's what it amounts to. She wasn't witting,
but she was to deliver the message and get it
through customs inspections. See well, he writes this three page memo,
and he concludes with this paragraph quote, we may have

(30:32):
cut across a CIA operation here and should exercise extreme caution.
All right, let's analyze that statement. Let me ask you,
does that paper look old enough to be several years old?
Boxy says, oh, yeah, it was buried. It was perfect fit.
It was in among a bunch of newspaper clippings and
had been punched and filed and folders. So whoever was

(30:54):
vacuum cleaning just missed it. Boxy says, they rifed through
and they missed these three onion skin pages. That's all.
That's my only explanation for it. Number one, he'd been
a CIA agent, Banister, he would not have spent three
pages telling this complete story, even to his own files,

(31:14):
because the names of all the people are in there,
the stewardess, the pilot, the guy they put the envelope in,
the guy who was supposed to pick it up at
the next port, and so on. Had he been a
CIA agent and thought it was a CI operation, he
probably would not have written the memo at all. If
he had, would have coded it by now. Now by

(31:36):
saying this, we means that he is an intelligence organization
of some kind. We may have cut across a CIA operation.
Is he FBI or is he some far right wing
intelligence agency that we don't know the name of? At
this point, I think there's such an agency, and I
think it was created by the FBI for its covert activities.

(31:56):
He's reporting to Guy Johnson. I've got another letter from him,
Guy Johnson, a copy again, it's buried in a file
of these clippings and handouts and stuff in which he's
talking about recruiting an informant within the Liberal operation out
here at Trulane student operation. And he's saying to Johnson,
if this is Tulane a student operation, if this is

(32:17):
if this man is all right with you, he's here's
his background, and if he survives your name check, I'll
go ahead and recruit him. It's strictly a letter of
subordinate to a chief of station or a case officer. Well,
I don't think he was CIA, because if he had been,
he wouldn't have been written the Tonka memo. But he
was something. I've got other things from his files in

(32:39):
which Delphine Roberts, his secretary, would have arranged post office
boxes for him. One memo from her to him says
some organization, and of course it's a preserve the South
Citizens Council type of thing. Maybe it was on the
school question. I guess the name for your use and

(33:00):
years the combination, and he's drawn him out the combination
and he's drunk. God damn it, it's so small. My
eyes are going. He's drawn him out the combination. That's
a dead letter drop. That's just time and time again.
Evidence in his files, that he was part of an
ongoing intelligence apparatus, and that he was running agents. I

(33:23):
don't believe it was for CIA, unless CIA snuck in
the crock of letters, and I think that's stretching the
law probably a little bit. They could have done it
either ways, less revealing than the Tonka Airlines operation. Plus,
all the people he had around him were of the
FBI oriented type, according to Brooks. Wasn't it that he

(33:49):
had a bunch of queer kids working for him in
and out of his office all the time. I'm inclined
to agree with you that Banister looms large in this thing,
and I also O and I come up repeatedly in
this well. All I'm saying is take a look at
it from this point of view to see if it all,
if it helps analyze things that otherwise seem to be curvaceous.

(34:12):
As I say, it may still be CIA. The motive
may still have been to rake off war materials, graft
off the top of overseas contracts and so on. I
don't know, But if so, it was because they controlled
the oni at the top, and I don't think they
do now. They may you all know more about that
than I but at the operations level it's FBI and

(34:33):
OI time and time again. Regarding the National States Rights Party,
in nineteen sixty three NSRP had a convention here, and
who's the chairman of the convention. George Soulay, who is
also in the Old Roman Catholic Orthodox Church. So you've
got this overlay of the NSRP and the old church structure.

(34:55):
We had a soul who owned the building in which
the Tribune was located. He managed the building. I understand
he's a frontman for hl Hunt. I bet you ten
to one he's related to this. Solet because he's ANSRP
right down the line, all right, end of tape, onto

(35:16):
the next side. I'm going to keep on rocking and
rolling with this because this is some fascinating stuff. Boxy says.
These are just little oddities that I'm sure you've thought
of before, but they've all got FBI connections. Oswald is
picked up and taken to jail for distributing the leaflets.
He asks to see an FBI agent. Now, how many communists,

(35:37):
how many communist spies? When they are picked up immediately
sent off to the FBI. I'll tell you what every
agent does, though, every agent has an emergency number. Every
covert agent he's got an emergency contact with his agency
in case he's picked up by local police in CIA,
they give you I in R service, and you call
I in R and they come fish you out of jail.

(35:59):
I know because they did me. When I got thrown
in jail for being a drunk, they got me out.
The same thing is true of the Bureau. When a
Bureau informant is thrown in jail, he's got a number
to call or an agent to call for and he
gets him out and gives him instructions. Now, the Bureau
was literally in Oswald's hip pocket. Bethel is making a
long list back there of Bureau contacts to Oswald, the

(36:21):
date of it, who made it, and so on. It's
a fantastic to look at this thing. From the minute
he gets to Texas, right on down through New Orleans
and they pick up. Once he gets to New Orleans,
Bureau interest in him increase. The only time now that
he gets arrested in Dallas, the Bureau was there. The
Bureau sits sifts through all of Fritz's questioning. Butler told

(36:44):
me confidentially Fritz would have busted that guy if it
hadn't been for Hosty sitting there, but we couldn't get
Hosty out of the room. Hosty was with him the
entire time. Butler told you that when in early June
of sixty seven, Butler told me, does talk to you? Well?
He did? Then who's he talking about? George Butler? Which

(37:05):
did he say? Which? Butler? He gotta be talking about
George Butler? Who was the guy who let Jack Ruby
down into the basement on the twenty fourth? In early
June sixty seven, Butler told me, does he talk to you? Box?
He says, well he did, then I guess he still would.
I was his assignment. Then Rothermill sent me to him.
That's when they bagged my room. I moved into the

(37:27):
Howard Johnson Motel. First thing I did was tip a
bell boy ten dollars. Tell him who I was, who
I was with, you know, if anybody expressed any interest
in my room. The next day they moved the new
manager in. First words to his staff was I'm blocking
out this room next to mine. He said, don't let
anybody have it. Well, the boy told me that I
moved upstairs, so he blocked out the room next to

(37:48):
me there, I moved into another wing of the building
and he blocked out the room there. Once they rented
the blocked out room, and he said, I told you
not to rent the room under any conditions. That room
had a one phone call a day going out upon
its charge sheet that was apparently made every time I
left the room they phoned ahead. Why didn't you change motels? Well,

(38:10):
I didn't have anybody bought at the next motel. At
least here I knew what they were doing. See, it
was easier to operate than it was for me to
go to another place. Anyhow, Oswald had the Bureau with
him all the time except for ten minutes. The only
time you won't find an FBI agent watching him is
when he came down the elevator in the police department
and got shot. How many Bureau men were standing in

(38:32):
the basement waiting. What do you conclude from that? Well,
I'll leave it to your conclusions. The more I conclude,
the more paranoid I sound. Well, just go ahead and
sound paranoid, but don't leave it to me, because I'm
not quite sure what the conclusions are. Whether it was
accidental they weren't with him, or they wanted him shot. Sure,
it could have been accidental. On the other hand, maybe

(38:54):
the Bureau didn't want to be close to him because
it would have been somewhat their responsibility, had reason to
think he was going to be shot. Well, if Ruby
was one of theirs, they would certainly know. Ruby's a
whole another problem trying to track him down since the
core away company chre away company. I don't know what

(39:17):
that is. Yeah, I think he's he complicates the whole thing.
I really think Ruby got a contract and had to
perform it. Well, Ruby was so vulnerable persuasions of various sorts.
You know, the guy was operating all over the map.
He't the kind of go around getting himself stuck in
jail with a murder rap on him, though not likely.
No box. He said if they told him you got

(39:39):
to pull this job. If you don't, you're dead. We're
going to turn you back to the IRS, or we're
going to drop you on this wrap in that rap,
and then had him for a thousand things, from gun
running to girls. They might have had a murder rap somewhere.
He might have had a murder rap on him somewhere.
Could well have Now, if you pull the job. We'll
get you out of it. Be patient, we'll get you.

(40:01):
The finest lawyer in the world will take care of you.
There'll be just another nigger killing. You'll be a hero
in Dallas. You'll serve about a year. You'll be out
and rich and famous. Box he says, yeah, and there's
a quarter of a million waiting for you when you
come out. Tell him anything. He had no choice but
to pull. What's the first thing he said to the
police when they disarmed him on the floor. I had

(40:22):
to do it, you guys, couldn't You know? When Ruby
really started to deteriorate, to really go to pieces was
when old bell I came in there and started painting
him as a mental case, a mental incompetent. I think
religion got the best of them too, I mean race
rather than religion. I think the business of Weisland and
all those guys running the ad and so forth. Are

(40:42):
we talking about Weisman, Seymour Weissman. Was it Seymour Weisman
or was it the other Wiseman? Because there were two,
might have been the other one that really got him
pretty bad. You mean you think that was a motivation
on his part? No, So I think afterwards he started
dwelling on it. I think he sort of began to

(41:04):
go to pieces. Of course, you can go stir crazy anyway,
even if nothing's the matter with you, even if you
keep you cooped up long enough. They didn't help anything,
putting him over in the psych ward. What about his partner?
He's a guy that nobody's looked at. Ralph Paul. All right,
let me pause here for a second because I'm a
little confused on Ralph Paul. I dug into Ralph Paul

(41:25):
years ago, and I located a guy named Ralph Paul
John buried in Dallas, you know, bar operator the whole
nine yards didn't mention if anything to Jack Ruby and so.
But I couldn't connect the name directly to Ralph Paul.
But Ralph Paul was nicknamed Johnny. Okay, So why is

(41:47):
that weird coincidence? Right, I'm gonna have to dig back
into that and dig up that guy's obituary and stuff,
because these people are never who they say they are, right,
and so I think it's a good chance that Ralph
Paul is not who he says he is. Boxley says
he won't talk. I was gonna go see him, and
I did talk with Tammy. True. Tammy said, you can
go see Ralph Paul, but I guarantee you now he

(42:08):
won't talk to you. He won't tell you at the
time of day. What's your surmise on it. I think
he was Ruby's connection, probably to the mob. Yeah, that
sounds reasonable. How about Larry Crawford. I think Crafford's very interesting.
I think he knew something about it, or something that
would show Ruby had prior motivation. He's like a preacher
and the Bobby Kennedy thing. The preacher bugged out too.

(42:30):
He was in the peripheriest thing. Jeffrey Owens or Jerry Owens.
I think he was more like father McCann, which is
another interesting character. I believe there are CI operations going.
I strongly suspect McCann was in on it. I think
the Bureau had a bunch of them penetrated. I think
the Bureau had a bunch of them penetrated, and it
simply turned them around to fall within the limelight of

(42:52):
responsibility when this thing was pulled off. What do you
credit Nancy Nancy Perrin Rich is a credit. I don't know.
I think she's important in that she could tell us
a lot about the structure in Dallas. Do you remember, Bill,
We were out there on the coast talking to the
ad a lot and to maur and they tell us
that every police department has top brass guy in it

(43:16):
and an intelligence unity it reports back to Washington. Daryl
Gates was the one in the LA department. Now Gates
was the guy who's heading up their intelligence division for
a long time, about three or four in the line
of command. Boxy says, all right, now, for about thirty years,
police departments have been sending me to the FBI academy.
There's a very strong rapport between your working policemen and

(43:36):
the academy of or Bureau in Washington. I don't believe
it would be possible for CIA to set up a
penetration operation within the police department without the Bureau knowing
about it. See there are other friends in the department
and two blowing it by complaining to Congress because CIA
is supposed to set up operations in other countries. But
I think it's entirely probable that these guys in the

(43:58):
major city departments do reporting to the Bureau. I think
this is where the structure is from. And this is
the Bureau. This is from the Bureau to your local
police departments. Fenserwald says, what relation is there between this
big sort of Cuban right wing gun running thing Los Angeles, Dallas,
New Orleans, Miami and so forth and the assassination. Well,

(44:20):
I personally don't think there is any connection to it.
You think they're all just saying I think there's just
red herrings drawn across. I think the operations were growing. Yes,
I think most of the people running the guns were
anti Kennedy, people like Howard Lawrence Howard. I think what
happens is that you've got your nuts, and then you've
got your and then you decide you're using paramilitary groups

(44:43):
for various targets. Well, you just pick and tie it
on Kennedy. In other words, the nuts were on the
supervisoral level, and after they used one of the paramilitary
schemes against Kennedy, they may have hand picked them, didn't
They have a number of teams because they had one
plot in Miami and one in Chicago and one in Washington,
had one in New Orleans, one in Dallas. Sure, they

(45:04):
probably had about five man teams, six man teams. Is
there any evidence to substantiate any of this business about
Houston and San Antonio and Ruby and Eva Grant and
all this san Antonio. Jesus Christ, Why san Antonio coming up?
San Antonio comes up constantly, well, not constantly, but it
comes up enough in the life of Oswald pre Marines
to make me catch notice. So something's going on in

(45:27):
San Antonio. What is it? Why is there potential for
Oswald to have been there during the early months of
nineteen fifty four. Why? I don't know. I need to know.
Is there any evidence substantiating any of the business about
Houston and San Antonio and Ruby and Eva Grant and
all this? All this is word of mouth. Doesn't really
amount to much, No, it doesn't. Well, it looks like

(45:49):
the chief suspects at the moment, including Frasier, who I
never thought of before. You see, he and Lenny may
seem such hillbilly as you know that I just didn't
here again be doctor Schweitzer. But he's busy. That's hilarious.
They keep joking about that they're both right wing nuts.
How do you know that? I don't know. It's my
impression from reading their testimony and other people's testimony. About

(46:11):
them and the contact I had. It sure is interesting though,
that Lenny May had that contact with the school depository.
What contact did she have? She knew somebody there. I
thought it was the brother who knew there was a
position open and told the sister. That's the story they tell,
but we don't really know how it came about. You
just stop and look at the Warren Report for a

(46:32):
minute and take cases like Craig's or Marilyn Moretz, who
said I didn't say anything like that, and so and so,
and then they made I'll go see Jack, and I
went to see Jack, or vice versa. They made changes
in tents and changes from positive to negative and vice versa,
so that you really don't know what happened by reading
the testimony and the Warren Report. It's various stute, various stute.

(46:55):
Fenser Waller says, and nobody's publicly come forward and said,
by god, they screwed up my statement. Only Craig, and
that's when I got him down at Penn Jones' house
and showed him the testimony. But he hadn't called a
press conference to scream about it. Well, I think he
and Jones did out in Los Angeles, didn't they bill? Yeah,
so far, that's about all. Most of the people don't
know what they said in that testimony as it came out.

(47:19):
Jim thinks Decker's clean French intelligence or whatever that outfit
was over there and said that he was cut out
because he was independently elected and not under the control
of Dallas oligarchy. And I would be inclined to suspect
that maybe right, because he sent his men to the
knoll and as soon as he could get on the
damned air Kurry sent his men to the depository. Have

(47:40):
you talked to Decker about this? No? Have you tried?
Jim says, go see him next trip. Finsterwald asks who's
the guy who got arrested in Fort Worth, of whom
we have a picture? One of them's Donald House. He's
a young guy who was it's actually his real name
is David Wause, not Donald House. That I don't know

(48:02):
why they're using it here. He's a young guy who
was dribbing a car, driving a car at high speeds
in a pickup, and they arrested him in Fort Whorred.
He wasn't in a pickup. He was in a black car,
not a pickup and fort Worth and held him until
five point fifteen and said, we have the man over here,
and they let him go. It's an older man. That's

(48:22):
Kenneth Glenn Wilson. Who am I still need to do
a lot of digging into Kenneth Glenn Wilson. Oh yeah,
I don't know who that is. You suppose Fort Worth
police would tell us or are they tied in like
Dallas police. Boxley says, I think they might, But of
course now you run into all the pro establishment resistance.
So whereas they might have told two years ago and
never given in a second thought, now they might not

(48:44):
do it because they know that Washington doesn't want them
to cooperate with Garrison. Although Jim's going to give me
some of the same, how about telling me about some
of his troubles with the federal government and the pressures
they've brought here. I'll let him get into that. I'll
listen to his version, but he's liable to forget some
of it. I'll have to sit down and start itemizing it.

(49:05):
How about starting with two guys Sheridan and it says cannibally,
but that's definitely not right. Sheridan and who could that
possibly be. I don't know. I don't know that background.
Here's my problem. But up until we ran out of
money a couple or three months ago, I was gone

(49:28):
an average twenty two or twenty three days a month
over in Texas, working in Miami on the West coast.
So I really don't know a lot about what's been
going on in New Orleans because out in Texas you
never really read it, You never get to read anything
about it, and it's all censored out of the papers.
I come back three months after it happened and someone
to allude to it in a conversation, and that's all
I really know about it. What's your impression of the
pressures that have been brought to bear Box? He says, well,

(49:50):
I think they're moving. Right. From the beginning was a
discredit to discredit Garrison because of the police, the poll
showing a percent of the people do not believe the
warrant report. Killing Garrison would only entrench this belief, and
this seventy eight percent would be run up eight to
eighty or eighty five percent. So it became a psychological
warfare problem to discredit Garrison, and they've used such devices

(50:13):
as Girlick deflecting to Washington, calling a press conference with
Bobby Kennedy to make it appear it was a Kennedy maneuver.
Of course, released it through our news Day to further
the Kennedy appearance to it anything to cut it from
Lyndon Johnson. Wait a minute, I'm not sure I understand that.
I think it was ultra clever to release it, not

(50:34):
through pro Kennedy publican, but the tip off Newsday that Girlick, Girliccher,
Girlick was talking with Kennedy about what Who would have
known Bobby? I don't think so. He might have I
don't know, but I can't see Bobby contacting Moyers to
release the story. Could it be the Justice Department? Then
I would imagine the Bureau or Sheridan or you gotta
be talking about Walter Sheridan, whoever it was talking to

(50:56):
girlic And then it is, of course the big hassle
for Jim's military record, and the Chicago Tribune sent down
to interview somebody about Jim's mental stability, and who they
interview Girlic So now he's a qualified psychologist. None of
that really matters because what the papers across the country
carry are the allegations at Garrison is mentally incapable and

(51:18):
therefore he discharged. He was discharged under Well, weren't those
the records leaked to the county seven or eight years
ago and not just a year ago. Yeah, it all
came up, I understand in his last election campaign, or
maybe the one before that, I don't know. His opponent
started slinging this stuff and that he'd been discharged because
of mental disability, and that this was the reason for

(51:38):
his Napoleonic complex. But the world, the world at large,
didn't know about it until it was revived. For its
bearing on this case, a smear usually backfires. It backfired
on his opponent down here. All right, we're on page
one ninety eight. Let me see three pages to go.

(52:00):
Let's go ahead and we'll continue. We'll finish up these
last three pages of this side, and then we'll call
it a day. Boca says, I think all of their
TV efforts backfired because after both the NBC program and
the longer CBS series, after each one, the ratios of
the polls went up of people who didn't believe the
warrant report. Where he was really knocking them dead was
that he would get on TV when he got his

(52:21):
half hour rebuttal time from NBC and on the Johnny
Carson program especially, that was a tremendous faux pas on
the government's part. So what's happened? They've kept him the
hell off of TV ever since. I thought that he
had some shows lined up. Yeah, I heard him talk
about having some lined up. With the fact that it
is he should have been on TV every two or
three weeks for the last few months. It's of fickle public,

(52:43):
you know. But whenever he came across on TV, it
was like Gangbusters. He came on strong. So his TV
offers died out completely until Dutch television came over and
put them on. I don't suppose they really care how
many people in Europe see as long as nobody in
the United States see see is it? Didn't you have
some information about how the files were leaked to the
Chicago Tribune. I believe they got them from the guy

(53:03):
who ran the campaign, the guy who ran against them before.
Now that fellow got them. I thought you told me
that the FBI leaked them to the Tribune. Well, I
bet that the Tribune and the Bureau would leak it too.
Somebody didn't have to leak them if they already been
made public seven or eight years ago. Leak is a
bad word called called their attention to Well, here's the thing.
The guy who was the guy who bylined that the story,

(53:25):
whatever his name was, tell well, he goes on TV
in LA program, La TV program, And the moderator thought
it would be fun to spring this guy a surprise
on me. Russell Freeberg was his name. The story had
just come out that morning, see, and so they had
him on long distance line from Washington, and the moderator
talked to this gut his story on this thing and said,
Russell Bill Turner's here. And I said, congratulate mister Freeberg

(53:49):
because he's done Jim Garrison a great service. He says,
what do you mean. I said, well, you've been You've
reduced your side of the attack on him to a
real mucky level, and historically that backfires. I said, people
will be more inclined to believe Garrison now. He said, well,
you know, mumble mumble. He said, I don't have to
sit here and listen to that, And I said, hang up,
then I don't care. I said, incidentally, where do you

(54:11):
get your information? How authentic is it? He said, well,
I pieced it together over six month period. And I said, well,
in your little piecemeal story, you left out the kickered
int you and what's that? And I said, Garrison wasn't
discharged for mental reasons. He was given a physical and
a medical discharge for dysentery. I said, don't you owe
it to your public to put in those little details. Well,
at this point he was getting pretty frustrated and mad,

(54:33):
so he said, I've got a copy of this two
on one file and oh, that's illegal. Where'd you get it?
And everyone laughs? He said, well, I can't say, And
I said, may I take a guess. The Chicago Tribunes
never believed Jadgar Hoover ever put his pants on one
leg at a time. Am I getting warm? He said, well,
I can't say. And I said, well, obviously you have
tremendous entree to secret vaults of the government. Now Monday morning,

(54:56):
if you go down to the archives, there's some material
in there we all love to So the moderator's going nuts.
He says, Bill, you're going too rough on a fellow
journalist box, He says, I served under Colonel Julius Klein
for a while out in the Pacific. Some people get
all the lucky breaks, and you just don't get too
far with the right wing. He's back to the office
conversation now in the right wing, in old Julius Klein,

(55:18):
do you know anything about the Teamsters union under any
relationships between any of Jim's troubles? Now, I don't know
the structure on that. Say, I ran into a story
the other day that is a Jim Dandy and I
got it nailed down. Perkins was trying to sell stuff
to Cuba. Tom Dodd started a hearing on it. Five
minutes into the hearing when Bobby Kennedy called him on

(55:39):
the phone and made him quit. Some reporter for a
Connecticut newspaper. After three goddamn long years of badgering everybody
finally got the story. Can you find newspaper clippings? Yeah?
I got a couple. Bear this in mind that if
Bobby was that hot about it, parton may have been
trying to infiltrate I doubt that he was any left
winger trying to help cast her out of the goodness

(55:59):
of his heart. Yeah, well, what Bobby was so upset
about and what Dodd's holding a hearing to show that
Parton was having relations with Fidel would make Bobby look
even more like a bum. Here's a star witness. That's right.
It's the same thing with this soul fine that they
let go with fifteen thousand dollars worth of bribes. And
I didn't want to say it, but you know who

(56:22):
is defense lawyer Guy Johnson. That's where I got the
story from. And it's true because I asked Louis LeCour
about it why he wasn't prosecuting. It just gets unbelievable.
If Jim can survive the next six months or a year,
whether he brings shot a trial or not, it seems
to me that this whole damn thing is beginning to
fit together. Now we're quit chasing down so many false leads.

(56:45):
We're getting a fair idea of who was there and
doing the shooting and who they were working for, even
if we don't know the exact relationships. I think they're
all dead. I think it's a waste of time to
chase a gun. I don't think so. I think Lawrence,
for example, was there and involved in it. Yeah Lawrence, No,
not Jack Lawrence, you idiot, Lawrence Howard. God, oh man,

(57:06):
they're going, oh, this is so disappointing. See I get
excited for no reason. I don't think so. I think Lawrence,
for example, was there an involvement in working for Boeing
Lawrence Jack Lawrence. So he's talking about Jack Lawrence. I'm
talking about Lawrence Howard, which was a shooter, Jack Lawrence.
I have a very strong feeling from what we learned
today that Wesley Fraser had some hand in it. He's
still around. There may be some others. This guy Mike

(57:28):
Barclay was there for some reason. Well, just be reasonable.
If you want to kill the president, you get a guy,
you go, You get me to go, hire some guns
to do this job for X dollars. We do the job.
Now that I'm not going to let those guns live
to put the finger on let the guys live to

(57:48):
put a finger on me. I'm going to take care
of their termination and disposal myself. Wouldn't even ask you
about it. By the same token, I figure, you're not
going to let me live. I may escape you for
a while, but I'll be running from you the minute
they pull the trigger. Now, this is the way it
would be set up by any intelligence operation, whether FBI, KGB,
CIA or any of them. Maybe they do still exist,

(58:12):
but it's too great a risk. Since these guys are
all in the business, Why the hell do they take
such a contract. It's the money they figure, they know
if they're gonna get hit as soon as they pull
the job. See, they figure instead of the following my instructions,
I'm supposed to catch an airplane at Redbird and they
will get me out of there. I'll go over there
and lay low with this whore. Well they couldn't live

(58:35):
that way, could they. No? I don't think they would
live two weeks. I got a bunch that down there
maybe something that story of the plane going down off
the coast. That's just the way they would take care
of them, the traditional way the syndicate used it for
a long time. What we've really concluded is that most
of the business about Cuba and the gun runners and
all this was just flack. Probably I think it was.

(58:57):
I think it was deliberately painted in to obscure the
whole thing. What stuff about Cuba and the gunrunners? Oh,
hal Howard and Seymour uhhh, And I will call it
today right here with my three favorite trios and that's
gonna do it for me. I'll be back tomorrow, guys.

(59:18):
Thanks for everything. Pick up my new book Lee, Harvey
Oswald and Black and White, and that's gonna do it
for me. Guys. Thanks,

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