Time Gardner Experience X Space with Cory Hughes

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, good evening, everybody, welcome to a new spaces.
Tonight's show is going to be about general assassination talk
about JFK. It's been a while. We have taken a
couple of weeks off. We just are trying to get

(00:21):
the summer activities done and everything like that. So we
appreciate everybody for your patients. And just an update for
our YouTube program. We had to push that back a
month just because of a couple of things.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
But again, my name is Tim Gardner.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I welcome you guys to Tonight's Kennedy Assassination Talk. We
have some people here from the East Coast on tonight,
so we're gonna be very mindful of their time and
we do appreciate that. So Mona, I'm gonna go ahead
and invite.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
You as a speaker as well. I got Corey Hughes.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
He's gonna be here tonight, so we're gonna be Tonight's
just a general assassination talk.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Corey's got a lot to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Corey, I'm gonna put you on here in just a moment,
so we'll get started. There's a lot of topics that
we're gonna cover tonight. I'm gonna mention the letter that
I about Jack Ruby or a document where Nixon's group
in nineteen forty seven they had ties on Jack Ruby,

(01:28):
and I wanted to talk about that tonight and about
how that kind of shifted things from forty seven on
just about Ruby himself.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Corey will chime in also about Samuel Ruby.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
He's got all sorts of different things that he wants
to talk about as well, So it.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Should be a really good show.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Again, Mona, anytime that you want to come in and
talk tonight and chat within any of us, I will
have you as a speaker as well, so feel free
to come in and ask any questions. So all right, Corey,
I'm gonna go ahead and get that invite to you,
and then Mona of the same for you.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Okay, cool, I got too sent out to you, guys.
I got Charles Small with us too.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Charles is going to be hosting his own YouTube show
here soon as well. We're looking forward to that. That's
going to be on our channel too. So Charles really
affiliates with the James Bond thing, with Ian Fleming's stories
and how it ties into to certain things.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
And if you haven't heard any of that, before.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
You got to hear his story. Story is amazing and
we love having Charles on. He's a he's a good
friend of mine. So but anyhow, welcome and Corey, how
are you sir? Looks like Corey did not get the in. Yeah,
well we are on.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
A technical difficulty there. Okay, Well, Charles, do you want
to go ahead? And before Corey? Hey, Mona, how are you?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
I'm good?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
How are you good? Good? Thanks again for joining us tonight.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I got Corey Hughes on the line, Mona, would you
like to start off with anything that you'd want to
talk about or any topics that you'd be interested in
that that either Cory or myself or Charles can chime
in about.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Oh, I was just spending a lot of time reading
some of this stuff with Posner. I just don't even
understand why he's relevant anymore.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I agree with you, mister Posner today kind of
went out of his way to talk about how real
history is actually losing with.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Luna and Joe Rogan, specifically.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Talking about the topic of the multiple gunmen and whatnot.
And you know, I found that little frustrating because you know,
this guy, uh, he told me himself to read his book,
and so I read his book, and with everything that
I know, I can tell you I had more questions
coming out of that book than I went in I did.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I had no.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
I mean, it was it was a nice button up
type story, but it was nothing that I looked at
and was like, this is a great book. So I
think for Gerald, I think he falls in that Arlen
Spector type camp where they just mask things and they
keep it right and tight with the CIA narrative and

(04:35):
with the the authority narrative, and unfortunately they do keep
pushing that that narrative him Fred let when all all
those people they like to push that to the American public.
And what's really crazy is just like as the CIA
used to or they still do, they look at us,

(04:56):
as the American public, as really naive and goible and
so especially like and I told you this before, Mona,
my grandparents and parents really bought into what the media
was talking about about the Loan shooter, the Russia ties,
all that other stuff like that, and so.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
In the fiber of most of the American public, they just.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Don't want to change that stance, and they look at
people who believe in the conspiracy theory aspect as nuts
like you know, people you know that believe in aliens
and all this other stuff, and that's a completely different.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Thing that I don't want to touch base on, right,
you know, because we can go out to left field
with that. But yeah, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Mona?

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah? Well, I just you know, responded to him. I mean,
because to me, magic bullet says it all. It's an impossibility.
It just can't happen. And to me, that's case closed.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh absolutely, I agree with you one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
And Corey, I'm looking forward to your cake here in
just a moment on that. But you know, the other
thing I would say is.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
If you look at all the agents that were there
that day the.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Intel for a regular parade, and you and I have
talked about that before, Mona, that's pretty unusual. And I
would say the other thing that's really unusual about it too,
is just again.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Everything that led up to it, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Whether Nixon being at the Pepsi company function that was there,
all the people that are really super important more in
Dallas that day, and it's just interesting for a normal parade,
you wouldn't you would think, Okay, well, I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Why would why would all these guys be there that day.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Especially like oss Assassins and just all these different international guys,
And it's just it really never added up to me.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
And so that's where you know, I'm questioning like that.
And then just Corey has his own he has books
about why there is a conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
And so for anybody that says there's not a conspiracy,
they're out of their mind.

Speaker 5 (06:53):
They think they they must think.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
We're globle or just absolutely idiots.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
No, I mean, the CIA controls the media, so they're
just you know, almighty, they just really are.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
They sure are? They sure are? And I want to
thank you for give me that interview.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I do want to talk about that real quick monent
while you're still on, before we get Cory on.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's really really interesting because.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, I think what really struck me about that
interview with mister Vincent.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
Is the detail that he had about seeing those two guys.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
In the the overalls, and I just was I mean,
they didn't even acknowledge him and he was on a flight.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
To anybody that doesn't know about Robert Vincent.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
And again, Corey, I can't wait to hear your take
on this when you get on Robert Vincent.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
He so he was a pilot, am I right?

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Mona?

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Was he an Air Force pilot? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I don't know if he was a pilot.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
It was an Air Force sergeant, yeah, right right, yeah,
And he was en route to Colorado Springs and on
November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, and that flight diverted
to Dallas.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
That day for a.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Mysterious diversion and they what they did is they picked
up two.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Just men and overalls that day. And Vincent gives a
really super detailed account about it.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
And they ended up dropping the two guys off at
Roswell and they locked down the base in Roswell and
Vincent had to take a bus back to Colorado Springs.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
So that story in itself is just amazing.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Oh yeah. And then they basically just sounded him because
they were so scared he was going to talk. Yeah. Yeah,
he wanted to retire and they wouldn't let him retire.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
His whole story is kind of of, you know, like
with a lot of those guys who I don't think
you know, because he kept it quiet for years.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, he sure was.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
And it's not like Nagel where Nagel was just telling
everybody that could hear anything, you know, like he went
to a bank and shot the bank up.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
And said we're gonna kill the president.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
No, this was a complete opposite thing.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Vincent is actually a pretty honorable man, and I one
thing I really am looking forward to for Corey's input
about Vincent is that there was a shorter, dark, complex
and male and there was a tall, taller white male
that that Vincent's.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Account that he had saw saw that day.

Speaker 6 (09:42):
He said, the shorter mail looked awful, like awful lot
like Oswald, which, again with the Doubles thing, that is
really super interesting because because if that was in fact,
because I believe in the Doubles thing, I do believe
that with Corey Hughes, he actually wrote about in his

(10:04):
book that he Oswald actually had a twin brother.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
I think that's absolutely a recent, realistic possibility. And the
reason why I say that is because again, there were
different accounts of Oswald everywhere, like everywhere that it was.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Either Lee or Harvey.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
And the more you delve into that, and as crazy
as Oswald's story is, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
What do you what's your take on that?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Mona Well I mean, there's all those stories you know
that somebody you know was at a shooting range and
saying something about assassination and then you know, looking at
cars because he was going to come into a lot
of money really soon. And you know Oswald didn't drive.
I mean, yeah, I definitely think there were devils for him,

(10:51):
if not more than you know one devel Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
And and Corey, why don't you go ahead and cut in.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I want to give someona some some more talking time too, but.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Just off everything you've been listening to us.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
I really like to get your input on this, because, dude,
you wrote an amazing book.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
You wrote two amazing books, so please chime in about.

Speaker 7 (11:10):
That, all right, So thank you for having me on
your space.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
All right.

Speaker 7 (11:18):
So, Robert Vincent, he is the finale, the grand finale
of a wonderful story, a story that began in February
of nineteen sixty one. So in order to understand what
Robert Vincent saw that day, you need to go back

(11:43):
and look at all of the times that Oswald was
seen with people whom Oswald should not have been seen with. Right,
in this case, a large husky latino often described as
having a pockmark face.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Right.

Speaker 7 (11:59):
So the first time we see this is at the
bolton Ford February of nineteen sixty one. And I actually
going to update this from my book because I left
it kind of open who my suspicions of who the
man at bolton Ford was, who left the name Lee
Oswald with them at a time when Oswald was in
the Soviet Union. So when I looked at this, I

(12:24):
initially believed that that man at the bolton Ford was
William Seymour because and I'll describe the thorough sequence of
events leading up to Robert Vincent, but you'll see this
pattern over time of Oswald being seen in the large
husky latino often described as having a pockmark face or
had moles on his face. Once you come to understand,

(12:47):
this will follow through all the way through Sylvia Odios.
This will follow through at the sports Drom Rifle Range.
This will be the case at the Havana Bar in
New Orleans, and this will follow through things that happened
in Daley Plaza and ultimately the Tidy Lady Laundry, and

(13:08):
then Robert Vincent's incident with these men, the men who
he saw was unquestionably Lawrence Howard and William Seymour. And
he is just one of a half a dozen people
who interacted with this pair over time who said that
the the short guy looked like Oswald. This is a
recurring theme. These two guys played an immense role in

(13:33):
the assassination setup, primarily the setup of Oswald. You will
find these guys at Sylvia Odios. And we know it
was them at Sylvia Odios because Lauren Hall, who was
the third man of their trio, confessed to the FBI
when he was asked if he had met with Sylvia
Odio because the obviously wasn't briefed on the importance of

(13:54):
that meeting, and so he spilled the beans and said, yeah,
he met with Sylvia Odio and Lawrence Howard and William Seymour. Okay,
four days later or five days later, he changed his
story and said that he was in Dallas with Lawrence
Howard and William Seymore at different times and that he
doesn't remember contacting Miss Odio. So he was told, hey, man,

(14:14):
quit running your mouth, and he updated his story. So
we know it was them there. And what did Sylvia
Odio say that the white man with them was Oswald?

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Right.

Speaker 7 (14:24):
So, how many of these accounts do we have of
Oswald accompanying a large, husky latino. We got about a
half a dozen. And once you identify the only man
in the cast of characters, because eventually you assemble a
pretty solid inner cast of characters, the only man in
the inner cast of characters who matches that description on
any level is Lawrence Howard. Because he had moles on

(14:47):
his face, he had very rough skin, he was a
very husky looking guy. He is the exact description of
the man seen by Arnold Roland in The Sniper's Nest,
who described demand as dark like a Negro, but not
very dark, but kind of dark. And then he went
on in his testimony to explain like he could have

(15:07):
been from South America or something like that, and he
had something wrong with his face. He looked as though
his face was very wrinkled or marked in some kind
of way. Come on, by the time I got to
Arnold Roland statement, I already been through all the Seymour
and Lawrence Howard stuff. It was brutally obvious that the
man in the Sniper's Nest with the dark complexion and
the rough skin, who's that was marked in some kind

(15:29):
of way was Lawrence Howard and we're not I'm not
going to veer off yet to the book depository, but
that become that pattern of Oswald accompanied by this man
is extremely important. You see it everywhere from New Orleans
to Houston to Dallas Fort Worth. You see it in
Los Angeles where William Seymour went by the nickname of Texts.

(15:54):
So these guys are Bosom buddies. They hooked up after
they got out of the army. I think both of
them got out of the army in fifty nine and
ended up down in No Name Key with Jerry Hemming
and Inter Penn and all those guys. That's where they met.
I don't know who brought them into the sphere of
New Orleans, but someone did. Somebody connected them to David

(16:16):
Ferry and that whole click down there. I'm convinced at
this point that they are the Cubans that were described
as having been at the party with Perry Russo that
we talked about last time. Go ahead, I was.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Just going to say, would that tie into Banister maybe
associating everybody together.

Speaker 7 (16:33):
There's no does people above Banister. So the person who
connected Kerry Thornley. The banister was Martin mccauliffe, who was
a professor at Louisiana State University. That's how Carry Thorny
got connected to banister through oh what the hell was
her name? One of his girlfriends that he had. He
had a bunch of girlfriends down in New Orleans. It

(16:55):
was one of them that connected him to Martin mccauliffe.
See here's and it was all over his stupid book.
That's the ironic thing of the whole of Kerry Thornley's
whole existence, that stupid book that he never should have wrote.
The Idle Warriors. So while he is still in at Sugi, Japan,
when he's transferred into their unit that Oswald had previously

(17:17):
been in. He gets out there and he starts using
an alias of Rick Thornley, and he starts investigating Oswald.
He's seen taking pictures of people in Oswald's unit. He's
asking a lot of questions, and a guy named Ronald Schwinghammer,
who was a marine out there, told this to the FBI. Basically,
for some reason, Carry Thornley gets stuck out in Atsugi

(17:38):
and Oswald's same unit and he starts to learn ask
questions about Oswald. This is not really in any of
the record, and he doesn't he denies this, but it's
obviously true. So he's sent out there to investigate Oswald.
It's funny because he covertly went through a whole bunch
of marine training that's not on his record, but that
I discovered photographs of him in certain classes in December

(17:58):
of fifty seven in Biloxi when he should never have
been at Biloxi. Ever, he was supposed to be stationed
in California the whole time, so they lied about his record.
He got in two years before. They said he did
two and a half years. Actually start he started recruit,
not recruit, a reserve duty in the Marines. But that's
not true because he went through active boot camp over

(18:18):
the summer between his junior and high school years, and
then every spring break or whatever he was back doing training.
He did amphibious assault training, he did radar training, he
did aviation electronics, all covertly because it's not on his record,
but I have different records that show that he was there.
And so yeah, so Kerry Thornley is extremely important in
this whole scheme and setup. But yeah, I put Kerry

(18:40):
Thornley at the bolton Ford with Lawrence Howard, not William
Seymour this time. A couple of reasons. The behavior you'll
notice in the descriptions of the men and their behavior
when they're interacting with different people that they are. One
of them is real crass and arrogant, and the other
one's kind of quiet. William Seymour was more quiet, not
as much of an asshole as Carry Thornley. And Carry

(19:02):
Thornley was filthy. He never had dirty fingernails, and he
always had like a day or two stubble on his face.
Oswald never did. So that's another way you kind of
determine the impersonations. But you'll find two distinct patterns. You'll
find the pattern of Oswald with the husky Latin, right,
that's always William Seymore and Lawrence Howard with the exception
of bolton Ford, which I connected to Kerry Thornley, like

(19:24):
I said, because of behavior. And then I connected Carry
Thornley to Lawrence Howard because of the alias Leopaldo that
he gave at the Odio residence, right, And so Carry
Thornley references that he knew Leopaldo in New Orleans, and
he does that on purpose, Like Kerry Thornley, I just
did a show on it this week. Carry Thorny's fifty
page aff of David to Jim Garrison is a confession,

(19:45):
straight up. It was ten years after the case was over.
You know, he had nothing to lose, and I don't
know why he wrote it, but he did. And he
connects himself to every legit major player in the assassination
in New Orleans.

Speaker 8 (19:56):
It's wild and Mona and Charles, I'm gonna go and
post a link to you guys on your DM about
that show that Corey did about Carry Thornley.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's the thing about Corey is, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
He is a retired detective and he knows his stuff
and he you know, like when I first talked to him,
he told me, I eat and breathe this stuff. And
I just you know, as I've gotten to know him,
I've I've just been fascinated with the wealth of knowledgeist man.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
It's been absolutely impressive.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
So Mona, real quick, I want to touch based on
what you were talking about, mister Posner, and if you
have any particular question with Corey or if you'd like
to add on what you were saying earlier. About mister
Posner to Corey, Oh.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I mean, I mean he's made his livelihood, you know,
out of just being It's almost like an asset for
the CIA. I mean he's bought. He's bought by them.
I just don't understand what the magic bullet. How anybody,
even if you don't know anything else, how you can
believe that is beyond me.

Speaker 7 (21:10):
Well, he likes to pick and choose his when it
comes to the magic bullet in particular. Let's tell let's
go over that story. So the magic bullet, we've all
seen the magic bullets retarded. The thing is that thing
that was fired into water or cotton wading or something
like that. Okay, it didn't hit anything. Anyone who's ever
fired any bullet ever knows that a bullet, even if

(21:30):
it strikes like even just soil, just dirt, it would
mangle the bullet.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right.

Speaker 7 (21:35):
So the whole thing's ridiculous. But when you dig into
the story, then this leads right back to the type
of rifle that was actually used to kill Kennedy from
the knoll or wherever on the north side. Because two
men Darryl Tomlinson and op Wright. Opie writes the personnel director.
Darryl Tomlinson is one of the maintenance guys. Darryl Tomlinson

(21:58):
is in the basement and he moved a stretcher and
a bullet rolls out. Okay. He takes that bullet and
he gives it to op Right and they end up
giving it to Secret Service agent Richard Johnson. Richard Johnson
hands it over to his superiors, like the number two

(22:18):
guy in the FBI. Who was it? Was it Tulson?
I think it might have gone directly to Toulson, to
the guy beneath Toulson. From there it goes to the Secrets.
From there it goes to the FBI, and it goes
from Secret Service. I'm sorry, I'm confusing my stories. It
goes from the one of the top guys at Secret
Service over to the FBI, and then from the FBI,
this is where they do the swapper rou to the
magic bullet. The original bullet that was found described by

(22:39):
OPI Right and Daryl Thomlinson, was fired from a a
three H three rifle and it had a pointed tip.
Both of them provided statements to Josiah Thompson, who wrote
the book Six Seconds in Dallas, attesting to the fact
that bullet had a pointed tip. And when Josiah Thompson
spoke with op Right, op Wright was a hunter, and
he spoke to him and he should do his desk,

(23:00):
and he pulled out from his desk an identical bullet
which was for an Nfield three oh three, and he's like, here,
this is what it looked like. And he showed him
the same bullet. Not only that, you will find if
you dig deep enough, a second fully jacketed bullet was
found in the basement. So that's all we know about it.

(23:24):
That was turned over to the FBI by op Wright's wife.
She tried to give it to them and I guess
they rejected it for a long time and then somebody
came by and collected it. But we never hear about
that second bullet found at Parkland, which is crazy. Why
would the why would you do that? Why would you
leave a second fully jacketed bullet? That makes no sense

(23:47):
at all to me whatsoever?

Speaker 2 (23:48):
No, not to me either.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
But again, Corey, as you know, nothing in this whole
case makes any sense, I mean to you. To you,
it does because you've you've been able to figure it out.

Speaker 7 (23:57):
But well, some of it some of it's like puzzling,
like why would they do so things and certain things
I just can't explain. It seems apparent that they do
something and you're like, well, they didn't have to that
risk exposure they It throws you know, things into question.
It was unnecessary. So then I start to think that
they do things for like weird ritualistic reasons or inside
purposes to leave a message.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
You know.

Speaker 7 (24:19):
I'm starting to think that some of the intentional misspellings
that I find in these FBI reports are are like intentional.
You know, I'm finding all kinds of misspellings and stuff
that you should like, I'm an X cop. You just
know such thing as submitting a report with a misspelling
because it would get kick back for you for correction.
That's how it's always been in law enforcement. You can't
submit ar I just think.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
They thought they were invincible. I mean, if people just
you know, got out of line, they were eliminated. I mean,
they can care about collateral damage. I mean, I really
don't think they even cared about some of this stuff
because they knew they could cover.

Speaker 7 (24:53):
It right, right. And So back to Posner, he will
he's aware of Josiah Thompson in his book Six Seconds
in Dallas. You know, I'm sure he's read it. But
I'm sure and I'm sure he knows the story I
just told you, but he will just say he just
either won't address it or will say, oh, they're just mistaken. Right.
A lot of these people just use the oh they're
just mistaken, or they were lying, or they just wanted

(25:16):
to be in the spotlight.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Right.

Speaker 7 (25:17):
This is like the deflection technique, you know, right so well.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
The thing I have a hard time with is the
whole narrative that that Posner and mister Littmann have about
the fact that it was just a deranged man who
wanted glory to kill the president because he didn't feel.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Like he was known and he he was missing.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
This respect is public respect that he felt like he deserved.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
I just think that in part of my language moment
of I think it's a bunch of bullshit.

Speaker 7 (25:47):
I have little to know evidence that Oswald worked at
virtually any of the jobs that were told he worked
virtually none. And the stories that we get the people
who were interviewed, like the guy who worked for Jagger,
Chill Stovall, who was a went by one name who
went by what he went by, John Bowen? Right, how
many Bowens we got popping up in the story. But

(26:08):
John Bowen turns out to not be the guy's real name.
It was an alias, and he worked at Jagger Chill
stoveall and that guy gave a bunch of dirt on
Oswald said. Oswald said a bunch of things, and then
Garrison that we discovered in the Garrison Sprague memo that
guy was a spook. Right, so we can't believe anything.
I'm at the point where if it's not on film
or audio of Oswald saying it, he didn't say it.

(26:31):
That's where I'm at because everything the only.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Thing that I want to talk about real quick with
both of you guys, And I think this is really
really indicative. So, whoever that was in the Dallas PD
you have told me it was Lee, you know, I don't.
This is where I mean, Yes, okay, I agree it
was either Lee or Harvey or whoever. And when it
comes to I don't know, I just say Oswald, Oh right,

(26:54):
So Bemona, this story is crazy. But I think you
guys both saw the posts that I put on there
of his reaction. It was just a picture and the
look on his face. He is just like, f me,
what just happened?

Speaker 7 (27:07):
He what's it's like when it hit him? It's like
when it probably started to hit him. So I don't
here's the thing that we don't none of us know.
We don't know at all if he even knew Kennedy
was killed at the time that he was arrested. Because
the bogus he's inside the theater by one oh seven

(27:30):
at the latest. Okay, So the whole tip of story
just ignored for now. I'm convinced he was in Fort
Worth all morning because he didn't live at the boarding houses.
He lived at the pain Residence. There's a stack of
evidence that he lived there. Miss Payne said that to
a half a dozen people before the story changed. Just
all the evidence in the world says that it was
Kerry Thornley living at these.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Can I cut in real quick.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
She also let the Dallas PD in to Willingly to
go through all of his stuff in the garage to that,
to add on to what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
So yeah, I can agree with you on that for sure.

Speaker 7 (28:03):
And that's another thing. We get a lot of statements
and looked at like handwritten notes from like a curry
and like hosty about what went on in the interview
with Oswald. You can't believe any of that at all, zero,
even Roger Craig who said that when they talked about
the station wagon, right, the green Nash Rambler, which we

(28:25):
know is a green Nash Rambler. We know it's green,
we know it's light in color, and we know it
belongs to Lawrence Howard because it's been testified to in
the HSCA by what I forget, they had a friend
who testified to it, and I believe the registration is
out there floating around somewhere. It's Lawrence Howard, clearly the
man described by Roger Craig. You know, the Latin that

(28:45):
he talked about with Jim Garrison that he saw driving
the rambler. We know it's a rambler, right, But we're
told that Oswald in custody said, hey, that's missus pains.
Leave her out of this. I don't believe he said
that at all. It's nonsense, nonsense, complete and total nonsense.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I call didn't they have didn't didn't they have like
a fictitious relationship?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
They didn't like each other at all? Right, they couldn't
stand each other.

Speaker 7 (29:14):
It's really hard to know what to believe. I do
get that feeling that there was friction. Uh, there is
some indication that Ruth Payne had an unusual interest in
Marina or what that means. I can't tell.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
You that didn't wasn't there. You can tell me whether
this is real or not, whether he ever got rough
with Marina, and maybe Payne was, you know, kind of
like her confidant and protect her.

Speaker 7 (29:49):
You know, I'm told we're told those stories that he'd
hit her and stuff. But we're told those we don't
have any pictures of that at all, and he can't
defend himself, and we're told and we're told that by
people who are liars. So I don't know, but I
don't really believe it. Okay, Yeah, that's all I really

(30:10):
can say about that. I just I don't I don't
believe it because I don't have any real evidence. And
the only way we know is from people who lied
to us about everything else. So but that's another thing,
like we can't trust anything they tell us. Oswald said,
So all that notes and all that stuff is right
out the window. Like I don't believe I.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Would say that we can't.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
We can't trust them on anything that they tell us
about anything.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
At all, because it all just I mean, Vietnam War
with the opiates. Uh, you know that that was pretty
much the primary reason why we fought that wars to
make billions of dollars for the government to ship out
opiates to certain urban cities, which you know is just
we get And that's another thing that we can talk

(30:49):
you know, Delvin sometime in the future.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
And then it just drags down to Iran Contra.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Theodor Shackley was involved with all this stuff with the
CIA and all. You know that that's just a rabbit
hole of you can go down on later. But we
can't trust anything whatsoever about this JFK.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Assassin. There's nothing we can with anybody. I mean, just
it just I mean, other than like.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
How it really adds up, and I gree with you
about that, Quarry, I just can't trust anything at all.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
So the reason that I come to certain conclusions that
I do is because really, when you dig into the
logistics of how anything happens, things in life only happen
one way, right, that's and when you go through the documents,
it's kind of like a logic problem, and you can

(31:40):
eliminate certain possibilities and narrow down a certain subset of
like facts to work with, right, And then you might
be stuck for a while, and then all of a
sudden you'll come across another document that fills in one
missing gap and you're like, oh wow, okay, I get
that now and it makes sense, you know what I mean.
So those laws I used to do, those logic problems

(32:02):
growing up, you know, like it would give you these
clues and you'd have to go and check if this
then that kind of stuff, right, and they get awfully complex,
Kennedy is nothing is not any different. It's the same thing.
It is just a logic problem. You know, if this
person said this and their behavior demonstrated this, then if
this person over here says this, then how does that

(32:24):
affect the larger equation?

Speaker 4 (32:25):
Right?

Speaker 7 (32:26):
And so after a while you kind of get a
feel for people's personalities.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
You know.

Speaker 7 (32:33):
The thing that's really is coming to more and more
of my attention every day because I'm looking is that
like the stuff I posted on X about his friends
who knew him called them Harvey. I'm finding more and
more and more incidents where that is the case. And
right now I got to be up to well over

(32:53):
one hundred documents where they're talking about Harvey Oswald, not
Lee Oswald. And then when you read some of the
states in that we're in that Jim Garrison file about
Oswald's heights, it's pretty clear the FBI, the CIA, Defense
Intelligence Agency, Naval Intelligence, everybody, everybody knew and called this

(33:17):
guy Harvey Oswald, not Lee Harvey Oswald.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's crazy and it's crazy to me too.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Also, building off what you're saying there, Corey, is how
much of an important asset he was. He had to
have been, because the fact is is that you don't
get you know, Mrked right away from Ruby. And we're
going to talk about Ruby hearing a little bit, but
you don't get merked right away if you're not really
that important. Even though he allegedly he was supposed to
die the forty five minutes after he got the assassination

(33:48):
of the president. So he was a pretty important guy
through this whole thing. And as you know you've mentioned it,
just the layers of his story in twenty four years
is just insane. I mean, I you disagree with me
about this, but I do feel he lived like so
many lives in twenty four years. I mean, he's just
this isn't insane for one particular person and his brother

(34:11):
or the Doubles and all this other stuff. It's just
absolutely crazy.

Speaker 7 (34:17):
So I keep, you know, I keep finding things. And
right literally, right before I finished organizing that book, the
last one I just put out, I noticed on a
document that I'd read one hundred times that I'd never
noticed this one thing. But on Oswald's marine application, not
only did he have Harvey Lee Oswald as the name

(34:39):
on the application and then it was erased and typed
over Lee Harvey Oswald. Not only did that occur, the
more important data point I found was that on his
brief like biography like where did you live? What years
did you live where, he put that he lived in

(34:59):
in Fort Worth from starting in forty one. That is earthshaking,
That is unbelievable because he didn't live there in forty one.
He was in New Orleans from the time he was
born October thirty nine until what April of forty four
when they move into the Victor Street address in Dallas.
He wasn't in Fort Worth, in or Dallas in forty one.

(35:23):
But that's what he put on his marine application. You see,
it's little things like this that just seemed like mistakes
that are not mistakes that paint the bigger picture. So
what can we say with certainty? I'm as per his
own words, he was in Fort Worth in forty one,
while Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans from thirty

(35:44):
nine until April forty four. Right, So that's where we
have the first split of the timeline. We have the
next contradiction in the timeline when fall Christmas nineteen forty five,
Robert Oswe testified he got dropped off at the Chamberlain
Hunt Academy in Mississippi with his brother John Pick And

(36:06):
then after that Margeritie Oswald, Lee Oswald and Edward Ekdahl
they go up to Boston where they stay in Boston
about six months, and they lived with Edwin Ekdahl's child
from his first marriage. Okay, at the exact same time.
Starting October thirty first, nineteen forty five, we have Oswald

(36:28):
attending the Benbrook Common School in Benbrook, Texas, where he
will attend through most likely February sixteenth, where he's then
pulled from school and for somehow, somehow he passed that grade.
We don't know how. We have school records for like
two or three months, and that's all we have. And
he was supposedly pulled in February because in February he
had his In forty six, he had his mastoid ectomy

(36:50):
on the left ear, and this mastoid ectomy in forty six,
it was in When was that, Yeah, it was February fifteenth,
forty six. So this is one of the most important
events in his life that shaped who he was, that
goes largely un discussed or noticed at all. Oswald is

(37:11):
a very withdrawn individual. He's not affectionate. He didn't like
to go out and play with kids, even if kids
were around, He'd prefer to stay at home. Why why
is this someone who's ignored by his mother, doesn't have
a father. His brothers are out and about doing their
own thing, very isolated. Wouldn't he be desperate to go
out and deal with other kids. Well, I don't think

(37:31):
he could, because I think he was mostly deaf in
his left ear as a result of the mastoidectomy. And
this is addressed when he gets to New York in
school records. In the school records in New York, there
are specific notations about him having to be tested for hearing.
It comes out through his interviews with Milton Currian and
Ranada's Hartogs and all those people that he's very withdrawn right,

(37:53):
doesn't like to interact. He doesn't speak unless spoken to,
you know, And why is that?

Speaker 4 (37:58):
To me?

Speaker 7 (37:59):
I'm convinced now that I've read numerous notes all through
his education. Surprisingly they don't mention any in the Marines.
But if you're a kid six years old and you're
partially deaf in one ear, and you're kind of awkward
to begin with, that's going to have a major impact
on your life. And I believe that mastoidectomy had the
biggest impact of anything else. That and the fact that
his mother was a total sociopath, you know, narcissist, had

(38:23):
wanted nothing to do with her kids. It just makes
me angry just thinking about it. How much of a
piece of shit human beings she was? The real Margarite.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Who's bank rolling Marguerite this?

Speaker 7 (38:35):
That's a good question. So here's the deal with her money.
So when Robert Oswald dies, he dies in August nineteenth
of nineteen thirty nine, two months before Oswald's born, she
will receive somewhere in the neighborhood of five thousand dollars. Well,
she says five thousand, but Myrtle Evans said it was
ten thousand, and Marguerite's a liar, so we never know

(38:56):
either five or ten thousand dollars. After Robert dies, so
she doesn't work again allegedly until early nineteen forty one,
and this is when we start running into some major
problems and lies from the whole family, because in nineteen
forty one she's allegedly in nineteen forty one and then
forty two, she's living in a series of addresses that

(39:17):
don't make any sense. The people who actually live there
say she didn't live there when she says she did.
She used certain addresses on applications like for the Bethlehem
Orphanage at times when she didn't live there. Right, we
have weird contradictions starting around forty one forty two. We
also have major contradictions in her work history. And her
cover story is that she was working retail, because that's

(39:39):
what she did her whole life. But she in the
Marguerite Oswald book A Woman in History, she said or
someone said in their own words that in nineteen forty
two that she was in a swischboard operator at the
Navy base in Algiers, Okay. That opens a can of
worms that no one's ever addressed before, because when you

(40:02):
dig into the telephone operators at all Navy bases in
America in nineteen forty two, starting in around June or July,
they were one hundred percent exclusive the work of the
Navy Waves program, which was created in early forty two
to bring women into the Navy to replace all the
men who had to go over to the war. Right,
because we always forget Oswald's growing up during World War Two,

(40:25):
and that's a factor of the story that is never
talked about. And so during this time period, we have
now proof that Marguerite Oswald was part of the Navy
Waves program because she admitted that she was a phone
operator on the Navy base in forty two. And when
you dig into the Navy waves, the switchboard operators had
the highest level security clearance. Because they were connecting high

(40:46):
level people on the phones and they could overhear every conversation,
they had to have the highest level security clearance. Therefore,
Marguerite Oswald was in the Navy and she had the
highest level security clearance in nineteen forty two. The lies
that she put forth where that she worked for She
told Merdle eleven she worked for the Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company,
which was a Navy contractor. Anyway, and anyway, that whole

(41:08):
story falls apart, and the bottom line is between late
forty one and April, or actually between January and April
of nineteen forty four, she's in the wind. We don't
know where she is. The addresses she gives twenty one
thirty six Broadway and two to seven Atlantic Avenue, it's
just being New Orleans and Algiers. Those are bunk addresses,

(41:31):
don't They don't match the story an asset one hundred percent,
one hundred percent. And so what those addresses When you
actually dig into where those addresses are, you'll find that
those addresses are like walking distance to the Navy Waves
training facility in the Bronx, New York one Hunter College.
So twenty one thirty six Broadway was like nine it

(41:53):
was like nine miles away, and two two seven Atlantic
Avenue was seventeen miles away. She stayed at twenty one
thirty six Broadway for only three weeks, which and actually
it's the Hotel Belvedere I believe is what it's called
in New York City. But you're never gonna hear that
anywhere else. That's not in the official story at all.
It's been completely ignored despite the fact she admitted she
was in the navy. Right, so just the fact she

(42:14):
admitted she was in the Navy should start a chain
of investigation that should lead right to what I explained.
But yet you haven't heard anybody talking about that. That's
what I find very frustrating about the study of Oswald.
Nobody studies Oswald, and the stuff they do study is
the official story crap. Like, the only person who ever
studied Oswald, who did anything on it was John Armstrong,
and he's the best of all time. His work on

(42:35):
Oswald is absolutely irreplaceable. Actually, me and my guys are
going to be in the next couple of weeks going
to be in the process of like downloading his entire
one hundred thousand page document collection, because I have a
feeling and it can be around forever, the most important
collection ever.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Sure this is coming out of left field. Do you
think if the truth could be known about tip it
that the entire case would be solved?

Speaker 7 (43:03):
Oh yeah, Well that's that's because that's because it's David Ferry.
I mean, that brings you back to David Ferry. So
the tip the Oswald look alike at the tip of
shooting was Kerry Thornley, and that story. To understand that,
you got to go all the way back to Perry
Russo and New Orleans and Kerry Thornley's history and the
fact he lied about his marine record, and the fact
he gets to New Orleans and works for one CIA
guy after another Kent Courtney, and then he meets Martin mccalluff,

(43:25):
and then he goes to Guy bannister. Then he's connected
to the Ferry at clay Shaw. He admits all this
in his fifty page aff of David to Jim Garrison.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
So wow, real quick, Corey, I want to I want
to touch on that real quick and add on that.
So Croy and Westbrook's involvement because they so in my
mind when they honked at for Lee at his.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Boarding house or Harvey or whoever was.

Speaker 7 (43:48):
At Perry Thorny.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Okay, right, So okay, But so where do Crome Westbrook.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Fit into this particular thing because they were first at.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
The scene and the e the one's that actually planted
the wall, and they also planted the jacket.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Where was the jacket found?

Speaker 7 (44:08):
That's another contradictory story. So the official story is the
jacket was found in the parking lot of the Texaco
and it was found by Westbrook.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Right.

Speaker 7 (44:16):
And so we have the story from Dorothea Dean who
owned Dean's Dairy Way, which was a little note convenience store.
And what she says is that she's working in her
store and she has like these double garage doors that
open up, and this is at the back of her business.
The front is facing the other way, and at the

(44:37):
backside of her business is an alley and she has
double doors open and these garage doors, and the building
right across the way across the alley is a two
story like sort of residential place looking house, but it's
actually a secondhand junk shop on the second floor. Okay,
So she's in there in her dairy store, and she

(44:58):
sees who she describes as Lee Harvey Oswald ran up
the steps to this secondhand junk shop, tried to get in,
tried jiggle in the door, he couldn't get in, and
then as he's coming down the stairs, he took down
he took off his jacket and he threw his jacket
onto a tire rack behind the Texaco. She will thell

(45:19):
then tell these are this is years later she told
us to Kennedy researchers who came came asking questions. Not
because none of this is in the warrant commission at all.
So she says, she walks over. She just figured something
was up with it because it was very strange, and
that it was strange he left the jacket. So she
walks over to the tire rack. She takes the jacket
off the tire rack and she holds onto it until

(45:41):
the cops show up a half hour later, and she
gives it to the cops. That's her story. How does
that fit with the story of the jacket being found
in the parking lot? See, oh, it was deal Myers
who wrote that, and Deal Myers is an Oswald did
it guy and so well?

Speaker 5 (46:01):
But that, but that also goes into the fact.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
That they all news media reports mentioned the Mauser in
the first place, and they all talked about the Mauser.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
For the longest.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Time, and then they changed his story abruptly to the
kar Kano because you know, God forbid, I mean and
that's where everything.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Is just a big mess. Mona, do you have any.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Anything else you'd like to add on that particular thing
about Tippett?

Speaker 3 (46:23):
And uh no, I just find that whole thing fascinating.

Speaker 7 (46:26):
Well, so let me reiterate what happened at the meeting
with Perry Russo, because this, like Oliver Stone made a big,
you know, point of this, and this was kind of
central to the clay Shaw case. But this party where
Perry Russo, who's an insurance salesman, he's brought to this party.
He's really kind of a friend of a friend of fairies,

(46:49):
a woman named Sandra Moffatt. He and Sandra dated for
a little bit. She's shady involved with some weird shit also,
but I haven't really spent a whole lot of time
on her, but she's involved in some some shady it.
And so he's there at this party, and I guess
through her she is a believing. Everyone ends up believing,
except for the person described as Oswald clay Shaw, who

(47:12):
gave the name of Clem Bertrand right, and then you
got David Ferry, and then you have a couple cubans.
He described him as cubans. My money is on. The
Cubans were probably Hall, Howard and Seymour. They were at
this party, and so that would account for all the
people that were told were there. But when you dig

(47:35):
into the description of Oswald by Perry Russo, you got
to taken not only in the consideration what he testified
to with the clay Shaw trial, but you have to
take into consideration statements he made to the FBI and
other things that he said about this person. And what
you come to find out is that he didn't just
meet this person at the party. He had met this
person at least two times before, possibly three times before

(47:58):
at David Ferry's apartment. And this person had been David
Ferry's roommate in the week's leading up to the party,
meaning September of nineteen sixty three, which is perfect timing
because Carrie Thornley returned to New Orleans September fourth. When
he came back from Whittier, well, I don't think he
was really in Whittier that whole time, but that's a
whole nother story. But he then comes back through Mexico City.

(48:19):
His second pass through Mexico City is the last week
in August, and then he's back on a bus and
he makes it back to New Orleans September fourth, just
in time to be seen at David Ferry's place, possibly
three times leading up to that party. And when Perry
Russo met him the first couple of times, he had
a full beard. He wasn't stubble. It was a full beard,

(48:42):
just like the pictures we have of Kerry Thornley with
the bushy beard, like when he was a beatnik, right,
and so, but the day of the party comes around,
he had shaven his beard, and he had shaven his
beard a couple days before the party because as Perry
Russo described him, he had whiskers meaning stubble, right, that's
what he meant. But that's the trend position of this person.
So we know this person was never Oswald, and who

(49:04):
fits the bill only Kerry Thornley, right, And we know Carry,
and that's how Carry, that's how you know Carry Thornley
is the person that was involved with everything else in
the setup of Oswald, like when the alleged trip to
Mexico City, which never fucking happened. Okay, this never happened.
Oswald never went to Mexico City. Oswald was still in
New Orleans on September the twenty sixth, where he closed

(49:24):
out his po box and he left a fording addressed
to the pain residents. Okay, so we can say with
certainty he was not on any of the buses they
ever claimed for him to have been there. And then
he gets there allegedly and speaks broken Russian. I'm still
torn on the whole if he spoke Russian thing at all,
which is a whole nother conversation. But the person down there,
if it was Oswald, they would have given us the
damn picture of Oswald logically clear as day. If he

(49:45):
was there and had a picture of him at the
damn embassy, we had gotten that picture. That would have
been perfect for part of the setup.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
If we don't have because he was, They were there
because they had the picture of James Arroway in Mexico City.

Speaker 7 (49:57):
I don't know too much about that. I'm gonna have
to dig up one day. I'll get to Martin Luther
king to me, I believe, I believe one hundred percent
that was James Arroway in that photo. Well did he
say didn't he say that he went to Mexico At
some point they were having him go everywhere I went
to Europe. I mean he went Canada, I mean here.
Who knows what the hell that guy was doing, which
is weird because he was just for a minority.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I think he's guilty. I think he's he's one of
the gunmen who's shot King.

Speaker 7 (50:21):
So, I mean, we we'll talk about that another time.
But I don't buy that. I don't buy that at all.
You always need a Patty and the pats. He's never
really involved in anything.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely talk about that.

Speaker 7 (50:31):
Yeah, we'll talk about this another time.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
But so I want to get Charles in on the
conversation with Charles and Monicac.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Both are on East Coast time. It's ten point fifty
right now.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Over there, and I thank you both so much for
your time being on our show tonight.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Charles, do you want to come in and chime in
on anything?

Speaker 4 (50:48):
Sure? Sure? And uh, you guys know my angle.

Speaker 9 (50:56):
I'm not a I don't I don't consider himself a
JFK researcher. I'm researching a family member. But you know,
we posted went back and forth about it. But of
course I find it funny the last time we were
here together chatting, and of course I came to the
table saying, you know, the story is the James Bond story.

(51:19):
And then of course you uh, Corey elaborated about the twins,
about the double at the Toro Airflower Space, and then
about the jacket and the beginning of Octopussy. There's the
double with Cora Toro, there's the radar he's working on

(51:40):
on a spy plane, and then to get away, he
ends up going to the gas station that they found
the jacket at. It's the same uh, I can't remember
the name of the gas station, do you remember.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
M.

Speaker 7 (51:58):
I just watched it the other day. It was great.

Speaker 9 (52:00):
I googled it and it's the same gas station. So
there is all of these themes at one location. And
then immediately it goes to uh Twins where they're chasing
this guy in the woods and they stab at him
in the back with a dagger. And those things are
not I'm trying to emphasize, these are not themes like

(52:24):
John Smith and a car. These are not typical. These
are extremely obscure things. Toro, the name of the gas station,
the doubles, the twins, and then you even found that
the guy for got his name. The Russian general is
the same names.

Speaker 7 (52:44):
I mean, that's that's the guy who The story in
Kennedy is interesting needs exploration because de Mornshield says that
he was introduced to the Harvey Oswald by Orlov, But
then when Orlov's talk, he's like no, He's like, you
could totally tell that they had met before, and then

(53:06):
the blame got put on George Bowie. And then they
talked to George Bowie and he's like, no, I don't
know what you're talking about. I got introduced to him
through George de Mornshield, Right, so there's a lot of conflict.
George Orrenshield don't want to give up. How we met
Oswald is the bottom line, because the story is the
all stories that we have about it don't make any sense. Right,
So obviously they were paired, you know. So yeah, I

(53:29):
need to get really more into George de Moornshield. I
studied a bunch of his documents when I got started
years ago and read about his like he went on
a trip through Central America on foot or something like that,
like weird stuff.

Speaker 9 (53:41):
You know.

Speaker 7 (53:41):
He's just I'm starting to come to the understanding that
there are no eccentric people. There's just CIA agents.

Speaker 9 (53:51):
So, just to elaborate a little bit, my great uncle,
who I'm just I'm making the claim that he really
was the author. Ian Flemming was more or less the
ghost writer. But then again Ian died in sixty four,
so then the source was my great uncle for the
rest of the movies until the last movie. So the

(54:16):
other is is that he said it was crank sided,
meaning you can't make sense of it. Also, he gave
me other backstories of other operations.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
Missions that he was involved in.

Speaker 9 (54:29):
And so they may take this movie and they'll all
of a sudden switch in like where where you've got
this Oswald, the toro, the bass, the jacket, the gas station,
all of that is the pre title sequence of the
movie octopusy and then immediately the twins. So then then

(54:50):
they'll they'll take the movie and they'll they'll shift it
and they'll all of a sudden start putting in some
operations and missions that happened in World War Two that
some of these people were still actually were involved in
in World War Two because there were OSS there were CIA,

(55:11):
and then during Kennedy they were some of the agents
involved in the overall story. So when you don't know
those stories, you can't piece it together. You're stuck going, Okay,
I've got five minutes of an Oswald story here, and
then I got an hour of god knows what. I
don't understand what's happening. And it's like a puzzle. When

(55:34):
you're putting it together, you can get all the edges done,
but when you start, when you get whole sections of
it done, and you're down to the last few puzzle pieces,
you know where they go and how they fit immediately.

Speaker 7 (55:46):
Have there been any other James Bond films where he
got to be a clown and wear a monkey suit?

Speaker 4 (55:55):
The monkey Suit?

Speaker 9 (55:57):
Yes, God, I can't remember which one, and that one
it was.

Speaker 7 (56:02):
I was dying when I saw that. I was like, man,
the eighties were great.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
Yeah, yeah, he was.

Speaker 9 (56:09):
Roger Moore was definitely the lighthearted version of James Bond
of all of them, for sure. But you know, the
time before we were talking and I elaborated, and then
just a few sentences you mentioned a man by the
name of Lazarre, and then you mentioned something about a

(56:30):
Nickel factory. Right. Well, in the movie The Man with
the Golden Gun, they find Lazare because of Nickel, and
I can't. I don't know enough about that story to
understand the connections. But those are the two other things
I've been spending a lot of time on. And all
I'm saying is is when I when I listened to you,

(56:53):
the final sort of puzzle pieces in this little you know,
corner of the puzzle I'm working on, does just start
start filling in. And I've never I've never thought of
actually saying, maybe Oswald feels these pieces in right, but
just uh, all of the movies really are the same thing,

(57:16):
the same sets of people, the same sets of stories.
They just twist them around a little bit, change it
up and brand it and throw it back at you.
But I will mention the last one, No Time to Die,
does have a man named Oswald in it, but his
name is actually val though, which is Russian for Oswald.

(57:37):
And anyhow, I just wanted to, you know, elaborate, great,
how you are. That's the section that haven't looked in,
is what you're what you've been talking about. But it
just it just flows right into this.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Well.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
One thing about Kennedy that has been very I'm neive
a note word to use to describe it. It has
been so disgustingly over complicated that people actually don't think
that it's possible to find answers or come to a conclusion,

(58:15):
which to me is absolutely shocking.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
Well, that's part of the murky waters that they're trying to.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Well, I mean, the CIA and all the powers that be,
they're trying to murk the waters for everybody, make it
way over complicated when it's really not that complicated in
my opinion.

Speaker 7 (58:32):
Right, I mean, let's go back to the very basics.
Kennedy gets shot and what kind of investigative stuff happened,
like immediately after they had David Ferry and Garrison's office
on Monday morning. That should be ground zero where everyone
starts their investigation. What was David Ferry doing and why
did Garrison have him in his office? That will lead

(58:53):
you to Jack Martin and Guy Banister, and that will
lead you to David Ferry's crew, and then you know
that it just goes right from there, like everything you
want starts right there with David Ferry's arrest on Monday afternoon.
Of course, we know for a fact that I'll say
this again, like we we think we have a lot
of documents, we don't There are no documents. Garrison's documents

(59:17):
are gone. They were destroyed by Harry Connock Senior. And
we know I can tell you right now, the couple
thousand pages that we have of Garrison's documents represents like
a percent, two percent maybe of his documents. An attorney's
office like that would be producing one thousand pages a day,
that's a reality. The administrative you know, the administrative function

(59:39):
of his office would be producing a thousand pages a
day easily. We have maybe three or four thousand. I
think that's even being generous. So we have he We
don't have any of the transcripts of his interview with
David Ferry. We don't have he arrested and interviewed Emilio Santana,
who I put as a shooter at the dal Teks building.
He arrested him and interviewed him for five days. We

(01:00:02):
don't have one sentence of that interview at all. We
have nothing, like it's a joke. And the documents we
do have there is gold. Because people didn't know what
could get released and what couldn't. They didn't understand this,
like I don't understand how some Joe Schmo, twenty five
year old CIA agent back reading documents to get the
approval and want to release even knows what he's reading,

(01:00:24):
no idea at all, you know, Like the Frank Kolowan
document is the most important Kennedy document period. It debunks
everything that David Ferry said about that weekend where he was,
what he did, everything. It's the most important document I've
ever seen, and it's number one and it's ignored. Nobody
knows about it. It's been out there, right, So that's

(01:00:45):
that's the case. Like people keep asking for documents, We're
not getting shit, okay, and what they give us is
placating us. They're nothing, They have no information at all.
That's new zero.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
So along with that episode that Corey did on Carrie Thornley,
Mona and Charles, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask Cory if
he can actually send me that what was the name
of that gentleman that you just talked about, forgive me
the document.

Speaker 7 (01:01:07):
That was the Frank Jholona document. Yeah, it's my I
posted on my ex on there somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Okay, I'll find that Mona and Charles and I'll make
sure I get you uh information on both that so
that way you guys.

Speaker 7 (01:01:20):
Can read it people keep wasting their time, like like
like I hate talking about this this guy every time,
but fucking Jefferson Morley, Jesus Christ, this guy is like
he's like a perfect, perfect, this freaking guy. All right,
Like all right, can I come in.

Speaker 9 (01:01:39):
I'm gonna try to keep it up a beat, but
I want to tell you a couple more things here
and then I'll talk about bore for just a second.
So you go to the movie Live and Let Die
intro scene pre title sequence that is in New Orleans
where Oswald had the he was handed out fair play

(01:02:00):
for Cuba Flyers, right, and then you go to License
to Kill and that pre title sequence. They designed a
set to be identical to Oswald's backyard with the with
the rifle, the stairs. It's exactly, exactly built exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
As that is.

Speaker 9 (01:02:18):
It's intentional and when you I can go on. But
that's the one, two three exactly. The Harvey Oswall stories
and the pre title sequences of the movies and the
pre title sequences of those movies is in part a
key to an underlying theme for the rest of the movie.
Now we're gonna talk about Morley. Keep in mind who

(01:02:43):
owns Morley and who owns James Bond And that's Jeff Bezos.
He owns both. And I'll let you go with that.

Speaker 7 (01:02:54):
So ultimately, I think it's a waste of time digging
into anything that's overtly CIA. You're never gonna find nothing. Ever,
like that's what they do for a living, make sure
you don't find nothing. Right, So all the stuff that
we try to I tell people, I try to ignore

(01:03:16):
the CIA, but I don't really because everyone I'm dealing
with in the cast of characters is CIA, right and so,
but that's covert CIA. That's not overt. We're not going
to find anything in any documents that we don't already
have the information they have on Mexico City. Oh my god.
I read on my podcast all of the testimony of

(01:03:37):
all of the people they interviewed from the Mexico City station,
Alan B. White, everybody, you name it, what's your name?
Good pastor and good pasture, the terrasofs like there was
only about a dozen people running the show down there. Really,
that's about it. It wasn't that big of an operation.
And when you go through their testimony, everybody passes the oh,

(01:04:00):
I don't know, it was his job I don't know.
You know, it's the whole like every single person, and
they went through the whole roster of people who worked there.
It's all passing the buck, right Like. There isn't really
much that needs to be known other than that to
know that they were complicit in something. One thing I
think needs to be clarified is the picture of Oswald.
They did not send that as a picture of Oswald.
I saw a bunch of posts today about people talking

(01:04:21):
about that. The picture that they sent code named Saul
Sage is that was the only guy who showed up
at the embassy that day. That's why they sent that picture.
They were told to send pictures of anybody who was
at that embassy, and that's what they did. Not people
who worked there, but people who did not work there,
who visited the embassy. And that guy who they sent

(01:04:43):
the picture of, that's why they sent it. But that
has been morphed into the CIA said that was Oswald.
They never said that. That was never their intent when
they did that in the first place. They did exactly
what they were told to do. So but I forget
my point. I always do that, damn it. Well, you're
talking about more really, Yeah, the guy works with the
CIA's Like just the other day you read that post

(01:05:04):
that he was up there, Like the guy's trying to
challenge me on anything, and he never he never addresses
any issues directly. Like I straight up said, you know,
Laurence Howard was in the sniper's nest, Kry Throwning was
at the tape of shooting, and David Ferry was on
the mall And did he address that in his follow
up post? No, He's just like, oh, you know it all,
don't you. You know, as a deflection technique. He didn't

(01:05:25):
address at all the fundamental points that I was making.
That's what he does. He never will. I was on
a live show with him and I brought up the
picture of the Secret Service car with David Morales on it,
and if you guys haven't seen that, I'll send it
to you. All of you should join my research chap.
By the way, I have a private research chet. There's
only about a dozen of us in there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah, and I'm part of that as well. It's really fascinating, guys.
I mean, it's definitely worth your time real quick, Corey.
I do want to get Mona and more because I
know she's gonna have to turn she has to wake
up early for an apployment tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
But so so, Mona, you're part of the let me
ask you. Are you part of the Mary Farrell Foundation?

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
No, okay, gotcha, because I know that you have attended
uh Morley substacks before.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Like his uh his meetings. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
His zoom calls?

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
His zoom calls?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Excuse me, yes that I'm sorry for mixing that up.
I do apologize. So with his phone calls or with
with his zoom calls, how would you describe how he treats.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
The attendees that are there? And what do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
How how is he treating this whole task force thing
that you would say?

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
I mean, he's been so fixated on the Joanneses files.

Speaker 6 (01:06:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
That to him is very I think of the word
very revealing that you know, he thinks that that's a
very important aspect that has come out of the document
ump and so he spends a lot of time on that.

(01:07:16):
He hasn't been there for a few months. I think
it's a vacation or something. So you have Larry's snap
and Ted Nagel that kind of handle stuff when he's
not there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
So if I may have my opinion, I'd like to
have all three of you guys bounce off my opinion here.
A lot of people in the community really think that
the Johnese.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Files is super important. I get that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
I think that they are important to a certain degree.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
But to stop at it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
And to just say, Okay, I'm good and to have
that be the main focal point of this thing is like,
and I've said this analogy before, I'm gonna go ahead
and invite you guys to a buffet. But guess what
all I have is top Ramen, you know what I mean?
Like it just it's just it is so disappointing. And

(01:08:16):
it's just you're leading this task force. You are the
literally the most important person. And by the way, what
I do not respect also and and Corey, I know
that you have your differences with Jim de Jenny and
I get that, but but Jim has been working super
hard at this right and to be brushed away by

(01:08:37):
mister Morley the way that he's been brushed away to
me as an insult. And then the other thing too,
is that Oliver Stone he said what he had to say,
like we need to treat this as another as a murderer.
But we need to reopen this case. So with both
those guys on the stand saying what they had to say,
I felt that was super important. What has happened posts

(01:08:59):
that is anything, But we're phyxiated on these Joe and
needese files Like I mean, forgive me, it's like a
hamster on a hamster wheel.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
You're just getting nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I think all of us knew that the CIA had
intel on Oswald prior to the assassination.

Speaker 5 (01:09:18):
Do you need it in written document file?

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
I I'm sorry, I'm very passionate about this because if
that's it, how disappointing is that?

Speaker 6 (01:09:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
That's what I'm saying, That's what he's going so fixated on.

Speaker 7 (01:09:32):
So the problem I have with that, even what he said,
I mean, yeah, great, we got an alias. Awesome, I
promise you that wasn't the alias being used in New
Orleans by Jonas What was it, Howard Gambler or something
like that. Yeah, So we got to understand these guys
have official aliases and then they have aliases they use
on the street. Right, so you'll have you might have

(01:09:54):
that Gembler name in a document internally in the CIA.
That's not what he was called on the street, and
so that becomes irrelevant. He was connected to who not
the Friends of Democratic Cuba. It was the Cuban Something Directorate, right,
It was the other one which was connected to Carlos Brenier. Right.
You got to ask yourself, what was Joe and Nita's

(01:10:16):
job in nineteen sixty three when you worked in psychological warfare?
What that really meant was you worked in propaganda. And
he was at the jam wave station, which means that
he was the head propagandist for all things Western Hemisphere
meaning South and Central America and Mexico in Cuba, right,

(01:10:40):
and all that stuff. He was the guy at the
top of the pyramid of the distribution, a creation and
distribution of propaganda. That was his job. Okay. So that
would tie in to the organizations down in New Orleans
because those were ultimately just propaganda organizations, right, and fronts.
They were mostly fronts though, because those were fronts that

(01:11:02):
were used actually as cover four small operations they were
doing in Cuba, off book operations, right, Like Emilio Santana
was initially recruited to ride boats, ride them mountain boats,
so they could like do little miscellaneous terrorism stuff out there,
right and just go ab out the land. So the
thing you have to people have the ticket consideration is

(01:11:24):
who is George Joannedas, what is his role? And how
does that connect to anything of relevance? And guess what,
none of it does at all. I knew and everyone
is known for years that Joe Needas was in the
New Orleans area in the summer of sixty three. The
name and I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago.
The name that no one's brought up. Who would have

(01:11:45):
been one hundred percent overtly connected to Joan Needas would
have been William god Day, Because what did William Godday do?
William god Day was the head of the Latin American Report.
The Latin American Report was a propaganda newsletter that had
like a ton of subscriptions, believe it or not, and

(01:12:05):
it was mostly distributing propaganda in South America. That's what
he did, right, and he did us some also some
reporting back to CIA about the results of that propaganda.
But that was his job. So you've got two guys
in New Orleans summer in nineteen sixty three who basically
run all of the Latin American propaganda in the world
for America. Right, If I don't hear the name George

(01:12:28):
Goddey pop up in Morley's research, it's because he's hiding it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Period.

Speaker 7 (01:12:34):
There's just no fucking way around it. If Joe and
Edus interacted with anybody in New Orleans, it would have
been William Goudey. It was he was like he would
have been his superior right, because I don't know if
New Orleans would have fallen under the under the auspices
of J. M. Waiver not that was Miami. But they
had a pretty wide you know, they're a pretty wide net,

(01:12:55):
and they were basically both folks that both areas were
one hundred percent focused on Latin America. So, but yeah,
god Day's name needs to come in that conversation. And
why isn't god Day's name coming into the conversation, Because
when you dig into god Day, you'll find out god
Day was most certainly tasked with keeping tabs on Oswald.
In would have been late July early August of nineteen
sixty three when the whole thing with Brenier happened out

(01:13:16):
on the street corner. So god Day is interviewed by
fenster Wald and he's interviewed by I don't remember who else.
There's two long interviews with god Day, and his story
is that well, first off, he is well familiar and
admits that he knows who everyone is in New Orleans
who's involved in all this CIA espionage stuff. He knows

(01:13:37):
Arkacha Smith, David Faery, Clayshaw, he knows all these guys.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:13:41):
So, the day of Oswald being captured on the news,
when he's handing out flyers, the series of events that
led to that happening was god Day sees Oswald out there.
He already knows who Oswald is. He calls him Harvey
Lee Oswald in his interviews with I believe it was
hs HSCA possibly, but yeah, he knew him as Harvey
the Oswald. And so he sees him out there on

(01:14:04):
the street, and his story is he then calls Jesse Corr,
who is the PR guy over at the International Trademark
close associate at clay Shaw. Jesse Corr then calls John
Corporand over at WDSU, and then John Corporand sends out
a film crew. These guys are all CIA. This is
his chain of CIA or intelligence or covert operations however

(01:14:25):
you want to look at it, because I'm starting to
come to the understanding that there was more going on
than just the CIA. Naval Intelligence was very active in
New Orleans at this time, and the more I look
in the guy Bannister, the more it looks like he
was FBI and Naval intelligence as opposed to CIA directly,
because the relationship between the FBI and the Naval Intelligence,
I learned very very recently was essence. The FBI was

(01:14:48):
stuck here in America. They outsourced all of their international
investigations to O and I. So you got O and
I running around the world doing covert operations for the FBI. Crazy, right,
So I forget what I was talking about. Where are
we going with this?

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
We were talking about Jefferson Morley and about how John
Edes and stuff.

Speaker 7 (01:15:08):
Yeah, so it would lead back to Goday and it
would lead that chain of events that would highlight all
the guys who got Oswald on television. It was a
staged event. Oswald was handed the flyers by Kerrie Thornley,
who had him printed in Jones Printing, and then he
goes out their hands out the flyers, and then gad
Day calls Jesse Cord calls John corporan and he gets
on the news. I mean, the whole thing was a
CIA set up from the jump, right. That's why I'm
the That's why. That's how you know he wasn't a communist.

(01:15:30):
There was no fair Play for Cuba committee down in
New Orleans. There never was at all. It never existed. Like,
I don't know what people are talking about, you know.
So Yeah, one thing I caught in Jefferson Morley's article
that he just put out in his promoting is that
he talks about the six times that the CIA was
onto Oswald or something, and all those things are none
of them. They don't have anything to do with Oswald.
They have to do with the CIA's behavior around Oswald

(01:15:52):
in non related operations. And one of them he puts
Oswald in Mexico City, which means he never How do
you do this for forty years and you still think
Oswald went to Mexico City. Oswald never went to Mexico City.
And so if that's a central part of anyone's thesis,
it needs to go. Like I said before, Oswald was
still in New Orleans on the twenty sixth. Couldn't have

(01:16:13):
been on that bus. You know, Nobody on the bus.
Whoever talked to everyone saw Oswald. It was ended up
determined that Oswald never took a bus out of Mexico.
They ended up driving out, and they actually investigated the
cars that left because they knew he drove out in
a car and didn't leave in a bus. And then
he goes through Alice, Texas, where he's seen with a
pregnant woman who didn't speak English. Right, this is where
Carrie Thornley, this is what drags Marina into it. And

(01:16:35):
this is where I'm one hundred percent convinced that Marina
was in on this thing. She was from the jump.
She was basically probably threatened into, Hey, you're gonna help
us with this, or we're going to send you back
to Russia and we're gonna make up a bunch of
stuff about you. I'm sure they did that. So she's
it's her handwriting on the Selective Service card is her
handwriting in the Hunter of Fascists picture on the back right.

(01:16:55):
She was setting Oswald up along the way. And that's
when I realized Carry Thornly gets out of Mexico City
and her he gets picked up by well by somebody. Well, anyway,
he ends up getting a car, a beat up old car,
and he drives through Alice, Texas. He stops at a
radio station, tries to get a job at the radio station.
But I don't think he tried to get a job
at the radio station. I think he made I think

(01:17:17):
when you start to see the presence of radio stations
pop up all over the place, w SHO, ws DSU
radio and then the radio station here in Ala, Texas,
you start to realize. And Jack Ruby, remember with the sandwiches,
go in the radio station, right, So there's something up
with these radio stations. I think he went there to
make a phone call to call another radio station, most

(01:17:38):
likely w s h O or WDSU back in New Orleans.
Those are the two phone numbers that were called from
the Alamotel allegedly by David Ferry on his alibi story trip.
Right from the from the Alamotel to those radio stations,
no one ever explored why. Well, I'll tell you why
they were checking in on Kerry Thornley. Because Kerrie Thornley
and his Affidavid Jim Garrison, admitted that he had friends

(01:17:59):
at both those radio stas. Why would he randomly tell
Jim Garrison he had friends of those radio stations because
he knew they were part of the investigation. By seventy
five or seventy six, when Kerry Thorny wrote that confession
AFFI David, he had the benefit of, you know, over
a decade's worth of Kennedy research, and he admitted everything.
Everybody's gotta read that. I'm going to send you that link.
You gotta read it. It's or watch the video I
just did. I covered it. It's so it's yeah that

(01:18:21):
in the Frank Schilona document are the two most important
Kennedy documents of all time in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, and I think it's really important for all of
us to understand and look at us Amona and Charles.
I'll be sure to get you both those that information
on there. I'll send you both links feed.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
But let me give you my final spiel on Oswald.
He didn't do any of the things that they said
he did. He never went to the shooting range, he
never did any of the stuff. He never none of
it at all, up to the point that he didn't
even work at the book Depository. We've already covered the
Book of Ppository before, but I don't have any evidence
he ever stepped foot in that damn building. And then
we have that news clip that I just got from
Diana Thomas. It was brilliant sent me that clip where

(01:18:58):
who was it Decker or Curry is telling the news
that Oswald denied he was in the building that day.
He goes that day, he decided he denied he was
there that day, but does work there. Yes, Oswald was
not there that day. Oswald was in Fort Worth all
morning until he caught a cab to the Texas Theater,
where he was most likely driven by Darryl bow click
Travy Delano bow Click, who died in a mysterious plane

(01:19:20):
crash in nineteen sixty seven. So that's my that's how
I put together the evidence. Bold stayed at home all morning,
living at the Paines. Then he takes a cab at
noon and goes to the Texas Theater where he enters
the theater between one and one oh seven. He goes in.
He sits next to Jack. He sits next to Jack
Davis to eighteen year old kid, you know nine hundred people,

(01:19:42):
nine hundred seed theater is only twenty four people in
that theater or something like that. He sits directly next
to this guy and doesn't say anything to him. He
gets up a couple of minutes later, hops to another person,
doesn't say damn thing either. He sits there for a
couple minutes. He does this three or four times till
eventually he sits next to a pregnant woman, and then
he and the pregnant woman leave and go out to
the lobby. The pregnant woman leaves and Lee Oswald did

(01:20:03):
exactly one point fifteen, buys popcorn, and returns to his seat,
where he will sit for the next forty minutes, a
sitting duck. He didn't have a goddamn clue I anything
was going on. Nothing. If he had any idea, he
would have been in the wind, he would have disappeared.
But he didn't. He met with a pregnant woman, obviously
a handler. A pregnant woman was also seen at Ruth

(01:20:23):
Payne's house that previous week, unidentified. I've identified three pregnant
women in the story. I can't really link. I've only
got one who's a valid suspect, and she's in New
Orleans connected to Kerry Thornley, but I can't say for sure.
But yeah, that's what happened with Oswald in the theater
and then he's hits there for forty minutes. The fact
he sat there for forty minutes eating popcorn tells me

(01:20:45):
he wasn't nervous, He wasn't worried about anything. He didn't
have any clue anything was going on. Makes me wonder
if he even knew the President got killed. And then
all of a sudden he's dragged out of there. And
then we have the conflicting information about the gun, the
handgun inside the Texas theater. Because I have zero evidence
Oswald ever owned a gun at all. The rifle in
the hando and they say he owned he didn't order those.

(01:21:06):
That rifle was ordered on a fake money order that
was produced by the FBI after the fact. Yeah, the
you know, the handgun. I can't like either gun to
Oswald at all, period.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
And I want to get into that real quick because
with the new photo analyzer tool.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
That they're going to release on Deep Seek here, which
is going to be out in September, they potentially could
be able to decipher that fraudulent picture. And it's interesting
because AI has the abilities to do that. Yeah, And
I'm really really fascinated by that because once steep Seek
actually releases that photo analyzing thing to see if anything

(01:21:44):
was photoshop.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Because they had a photoshop.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Being capability back then, obviously there was something they were able.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
To do when it came to an editing tool.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
I'm interested when that analyzer comes out what the research
community is going to do about that, or even just
anything in general, because honestly, I think that photo is
one uh fake.

Speaker 7 (01:22:08):
I mean, like, are you that about the backyard photo?

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Absolutely, because you don't have a photo with the thirty
eight in your pocket and then the and then the
the the car Kano.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
I mean, it's just it adds up boy too.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
It's just too convenient, you know, and then you put
it on the cover of Life magazine and then it's
just so much in our face. It's so damn obvious,
like Okay, hey look here's the murder weapon for JD.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Tippett.

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
Oh hey, here's the other.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Murder weapon for President Kennedy.

Speaker 7 (01:22:37):
Right, and so, uh no, the picture's totally a fake.
And the for me, the best evidence of that, besides
the fact it's obvious a fake, which by looking at it,
he's got the ring on the different fingers. I don't
know what that's about that. Some weird freemason shit. They
didn't have to do that. They intentionally switched the ring
on the fingers. Why did they do that? Got some
wild shit there. That to me is some weird secret

(01:22:58):
society symbolism. I'm telling you it's weird, but it's true.
And so that picture you have, what's his name, the
Reverend Raymond broke Shears. Raymond Brochers looked at that picture
and he told Garrison, He's like, that's Kerry Thornley. I'd
know that body anywhere because he slept with him. So

(01:23:18):
that was all I had. All the suspicions in the
world that was Kerry Thornley. The Alice, Texas stuff with
the setup of Oswald, gave even more credence to that story.
And then when I realized that that Marina admits taking
that picture, she obviously took a picture of somebody clearly
wasn't Oswald. It was definitely Harry thorns that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
She refused that in the Tom Brokaw interview, so she
he asked her about that, and she says no, And
so they did they After she says no, they divert
often too, something else, which pisss off the researcher that
she's sitting next to. And I mean, Mona, you know
what I'm talking about that interview, right the Broclaw one.

Speaker 7 (01:23:57):
I know what's what you're talking about too.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Yeah, yeah, so so Broke I asked her about the backyard.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
Yeah, he even took the photo of Ly and she's like,
well I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
And then they kind of cut it off, like abruptly
right after that, and they went into something else. But
after all that happened, that's when that that researcher got
all pissed off left the show.

Speaker 4 (01:24:18):
You know, she.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Basically was just like dude I had.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
She was basically saying like, you know, hey, he may
have been a piece of crap.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
To me, but he was not.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
You know, he's not what they said they were, you know,
but he you know, he wasn't the murderer, and you
know she was. She was slandering Posner, which was great.
It was a really good interview. But anyways, my point
is is that that backyard photo that you said that
she that that allegedly they said.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
That she took.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
I don't think she took that obviously, and so I
think that she was trying to get that out. But again,
with the way that she's been humiliated so much, and
she's in ill health now she's dying, and people ask
why can't she like testify or all this stuff dying?
For one, Two, she just doesn't want to do interviews
because she's been humiliated enough.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
But he has two daughters who deserve to have, you know,
their father exonerated.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Absolutely, one hundred percent, mona absolutely.

Speaker 7 (01:25:19):
You know. Research with Diana Thomas h I do a
lot of work with the double Oswald's and the potential
potentiality of other people using other identities. She's gone down
this road and she thinks that there's a chance that
those aren't even his kids.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:25:40):
Yeah, She's gone through a whole lot of pictures of
her children, of the of June's children, and what's the
other one, Rach is it? Rachel? I forget, but she's
gone through all tons and tons of pictures, and she
she's convinced that it's not Oswalt's. But I can't say
one way or the other on that, but I think
it's an interesting theory and not outside their amal possibility.

(01:26:04):
So here's one thing I got to fall back on
from what I've learned about Russian intelligence. When it came
to women in Russian intelligence, they had basically one limited functionality,
you know, to use sex to get information. And so
I don't know what Marina's attitudes were, but there's some
indication that even when she got back to America that

(01:26:25):
she kind of got around or kind of put herself
out there for a lot of people. So I don't
know the truth to that, but who knows. It's possibility.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Well, guys, this has been fascinating and I hate to go,
but I've got to get up early. It's eleven thirty
almost my time.

Speaker 7 (01:26:45):
It was nice to meet too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
Yeah, this was wonderful. I look forward to seeing all
the lengths and thank you for inviting me. Tim, good night,
good night.

Speaker 7 (01:27:00):
Still here, Tim, seems like I probably got up to
get a drink or something. Okay, So yeah, I tried
to watch a whole bunch of Bond movies. I did
a mg.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
Sorry about that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:17):
Sorry.

Speaker 7 (01:27:17):
I did the MBM trial to get the three seven
A trial so I can watch the movie because I
couldn't find it anywhere, and like they only have like
four Bond films, Like MGM only has like four Bond
films on there on MGM streaming. It was very disappointing.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
This is disappointing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Well, I am back, I am back. I apologize. I
was on mute, but I do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
You guys can continue.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
But I was just gonna tell her before she left
to make sure that she listens to the tail end
of the show, because I wanted to go over the
Ruby the Ruby thing in forty seven but here in
just a second, but you guys can continue. And I
want to read that memo here in just a bit,
so yeah, continue on that which one I had forty seven,

(01:28:01):
The Ruby letter. Let me let me get let me
I'm not in my office right now, let me let
me get let me read it real quick, Charles, Do
you have anything to say before I get into.

Speaker 4 (01:28:10):
The Ruby Letter?

Speaker 5 (01:28:11):
No, you go right ahead, Okay, just a moment. I
posted this a couple couple of days ago.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
It's been out for about thirty five years, but it's
not really known to a whole lot of people.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
And that's why. Brilliantly, earlier, Corey, you were talking.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
About how there's access to files that are out there,
but not everybody just takes the effort to go out
and find him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
But I was listening to a Daniel Shean of course.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
The other night, just because I'm fascinated with with she
and just in.

Speaker 7 (01:28:41):
General, he's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
He's really smart.

Speaker 7 (01:28:45):
Got I met him in Las Vegas. He was at
a conference I was at, and he actually gave me
like fifteen minutes and I busted out my computer and
I showed him all the Jack Valenti stuff. I showed
him the McIntyre photos. I showed him Morales all that stuff.
You ever heard him day a word about it?

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
Never he met well, he mentions Morales, but he doesn't
mention you know. And that's the thing with all this,
and we can you're going to be on our show?
What okay, now it's kind of where we're on air,
but what are you going to be doing? Uh in midweek?
Because we're going to be doing our first first show
live on YouTube on this week? Are you going to

(01:29:28):
be able to do that with us?

Speaker 7 (01:29:29):
I can't tomorrow, but any other Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Thursday,
like I can't, but I can't Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Or yeah, Wednesday would be the dance when Wednesday would
be the so you heard it here, folks were actually
going to be doing our first episode Wednesday. So but anyways,
So what I was about to say was, so I
was just I was watching his course. He was doing
one on the the uh Iran contra and stuff, because
I'm really fascinated with how everything is tied down through history. Anyways,

(01:29:59):
there wasn't a ten and he brought up a letter
about Nixon and Jack Ruby in nineteen forty seven, and
I was just fascinated.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
I was like, how did he get this information? So
all I did was do the standard Google.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Search and the following letter reads this. It's a Federal
Bureau of Investigation letter. It says, it is a sworn
statement that one Jack Rubinstein of Chicago, noted as a
potential witness for hearings of the House Committee on American Activities,

(01:30:34):
is performing information functions for the staff of Congress Richard Nixon,
Representative of California. It is requested Rubinstein not be called
for open testimony in those affirmation hearings dated twenty fourth
November nineteen forty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
So this must have been right before he changed his name.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
But dude, that's that's that's a crazy document because that
means that Nixon had.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Ties with Rubinstein.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
That early, and it's just fascinating because that opens up
a lot of things between forty seven and nineteen sixty
three from Chicago to Dallas.

Speaker 7 (01:31:15):
So there's a okay, So I agree that that document
is it's a real document for sure, and I do
believe that it is our Jack Ruby that we're talking
about here. However, there is another Jack Ruby. I just
have to point this out, who was born the same
year and from Poland, and he popped up a bunch

(01:31:38):
of times in my research, and he was very active
in political stuff. God where was he from. He was
from my Boston or like up in the New England somewhere,
but his name you will find his name pops up
when digging into some political stuff in the thirties and forties.
I think he was connected to some communists something I

(01:31:59):
don't recall, but that's what I've seen, that name pop up.
And that's just a warning that some of that old
old documents, like from the days. That document is from
the Kaffer hearings, which was the purpose of the Kafaffer
hearings was to determine whether or not there was such
thing as organized crime in America. Right if you got

(01:32:20):
to have a hearing about something, I'm pretty sure it's
real already you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, these
fucking people, it's all theater, man. I swear to god,
everyone was on the take. You got to understand like
everyone was on the take back then, like we had
the Federal Bureau of Narcotics which got shut down because
everyone was on Arnold Rothstein's payroll, right, Arnold Rothstein is
who connected the FBN to Changhai Sheck in fucking China.

(01:32:45):
That's when all the opium stuff went on with the
British Like our government has been working with fucking underworld
for over one hundred years. It's fucking crazy, isn't it.
So Yeah, the kafoffer hearings very interesting stuff, but you
want the goods on that. You got to read Doug
Valentine's book Strength of the Pack.

Speaker 1 (01:33:05):
Well, you know, and for me, and this is why
I think the letter is so important.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
I am BREAKINGNY news.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
It's been out there for like you know, my friend
Kevin Tiers said it's been out there for thirty five
plus years, which that's absolutely correct. It's been out there
and I'm not you know, I don't want to rip
on anybody that I know that's on Twitter, but I'll
do that anyways, there's somebody that says there's breaking documents
when there's no breaking documents.

Speaker 5 (01:33:30):
It's just been and both of you guys know who
I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
And it's unfair to people that read this stuff that
when they say it's brand new and breaking when it's not.
And so I want to make myself absolutely clear, this
isn't a breaking document.

Speaker 5 (01:33:46):
This has been out there for years and years and years.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
And I found it on Wikipedia.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
But the why it's so important to me as a
researcher is because and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
You told me all this stuff before. I mean, we've you.

Speaker 5 (01:33:59):
And I have taught for hours and hours and hours, Cory.

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
But I would say it's really important to understand that
Jack Ruby's movements from Chicago to Dallas was not something
of a you know, a Kennedy sympathizer and a guy
who was struggling to run his nightclub. I mean that
right there to me alludes that this guy was really

(01:34:21):
heavily involved.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
With a lot of different things.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
And so is his brother, Samuel like you like you,
and you and your team are investigating that right now
with with Samuel. And what's really important to me about
mister Ruby is that how just I feel like, you know,
not only involved was he, but how important he was,
And that right there kind of validates that letter does

(01:34:45):
to me, even in an indirect way.

Speaker 7 (01:34:47):
Right. So, he grew up in Chicago and two of
his best friends were Dave Yaris and Lenny Patrick, who
I put in Daily Plaza. There is some controversy over
why he left Chicago. He the story is he was
like involved with some little like nick Knack company that

(01:35:10):
made some sort of like like some little bullshit that
he would sell right like, and and he scalped tickets
and stuff like that. But that doesn't necessarily at the time.
But that doesn't seem to necessarily jive with the people
who he seemed to know later on in life, like
Red Dorfmann and Frank Shehan, you know, and all those guys,
the Mava mob guys. So yeah, so I don't know,

(01:35:34):
but there's some Ultimately, what I've come to understand is
that he ended up before he left there, he was
working for Lenny Patrick. Something is connected somehow to his
buddy who got killed. Remember how he adopted the middle
name Leon. That's a whole nother story. But I don't
believe this story at all. I believe the names Wayne

(01:35:56):
and Leon are ranks that you that you get they
mean something because he's not the only person to acquire
the name Leon. And there's a couple people who acquired
the name Wayne in the story who's or used an
alias of Wayne in the middle name that wasn't isn't
their real name. So those two names Wayne and Leon
kept popping up for me as names that were assumed later,
and even Ryan Dawson asked me if I figured out

(01:36:17):
that yet, and so obviously someone else caught onto that too.
So I'm thinking the story about him picking up the
middle name Leon is a mob connection as more than
he did it for his friend. But the story is
that he came down here under bad terms from the mob.
But I don't think that that's necessarily true. I think
that's I think he was sent down here to work
for the mob down here, because that happens all the time.

(01:36:39):
Dave Yaris was a lifetime Chicago outfit, but he lived
his whole life almost in Miami. He was their man
in Miami, you know what I mean. So I think
Jack Ruby was a guy in one of their guys
in Dallas, and you got to realize he ran the
strip club and he was kind of had connections with
Marcello and Marcello's strip clubs and his strippers were going
down to New Orleans and that strip cl you know,
that was a little bit more than a strip club ring,

(01:37:02):
you know what I mean, And that somehow was connected
to the Guild of Variety Artists, you know, that connects
to Dolan and all those other guys. That was a
mob up at operation. Also, ultimately, what I'm saying is
Ruby was involved in human trafficking. He was a pimp,
you know, just like just like David Ferry said in
the JFK movie, that's what Jack was. And that's where
he knows Jack Valenti, that's where he knows David Ferry,

(01:37:26):
That's where he knows all the guys connected to this
basically prostitution ring. He was like a Southern Bobby Baker really,
and there was some overlap with Bobby Baker's prostitution ring
in New Orleans through Marcello, which is interesting too that
I've never really dug into. But Jack was far more
important than people say. When you read it was Frank

(01:37:47):
the Irishman Sheeran. When you read his book, he makes
it very clear jack Ruby was a somebody when he
sat at the table. He sat at the He sat
at the table with the with the big shots, not
the little guys.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:37:58):
So all the stuff about Jackie Kennedy and all that's
all crap. I do think there was some smoke with
the kaffaf for stuff that might have been in his introduction.
I never used to understand how somebody could be working
with the CIA, the FBI and the masade like at
the same time, Like how to fuck you do that?
It doesn't make any sense now.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Like he but like you just mentioned, he was. He
sat at the big table as she and said, yeah,
and like he was. He was a guy that that
he was.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
And I feel like when you dig into him to
kind of the more important people that are out there,
they don't really want to get into Ruby too much
because he you know, there's a reason why you know,
Jolly West visited him in prison and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
You know later on and you know, to be.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Quote unquote be his I mean, I know you disagree
with me about that, but I mean for him to dive,
I mean, I know he had cancer, I know he did.
I know he did and and but there's stuff because
of his before his retrial. What doesn't make sense to me?
He just dies And to me, that just doesn't make
a whole lot of sense. I I, yes, cancer can

(01:39:06):
kill you right away, it just depends.

Speaker 7 (01:39:09):
But I just the.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Timing of it is like with every other death regarding
this thing, the timing is just crazy.

Speaker 7 (01:39:16):
Yeah, I've seen. So there's a document from Monk Zelden
to Jim Garrison that says he's in possession of a
medical report that said that Jack Ruby had cancer going
back to at least nineteen sixty two. There is another
person I forget it was in an interview with somebody

(01:39:38):
who knew Ruby in Chicago, and they said Ruby had
cancer when he was in Chicago, still in the forties.
So I don't buy the he I don't buy the
super cancer shit at all. None of that stuff I do.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
But but what about the mind altering stuff from West
Do you believe believe any of that stuff?

Speaker 7 (01:39:58):
I mean, I don't know, it's possible. I'm more of
the mind that they went in there, they sent him
in there to see what he knew as opposed to
anything else, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Yeah, yeah, Well, and and if you watch the press
conference with his attorneys, they're quite uncomfortable that he's saying
the stuff that he's saying about you know, you know,
the people that knew things are like, you know, if
he knew what I knew, you know, kind of like
what Trump said a little bit, you know last year,

(01:40:26):
a couple of years, you know, whenever that was Ruby
had made a mention of like, you know, the the
bigger you know, parts of play in regards to whether
that's propaganda, bullshit, fluff whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:40:40):
He was making his attorneys uncomfortable obviously.

Speaker 7 (01:40:45):
Yeah, Ruby, Ruby and Jail is a liability, clearly. But
they knew him forever. They knew him since the twenties
Chicago outfit. Did he knew he wasn't gonna They knew
that he could count on him, right, So, but I
think the reason he got pick in the first place was, well,

(01:41:05):
I'm convinced the phone call that he made to al
Ruber is when he got the order, one hundred percent
convinced of that. I've read some interviews with other people
who said that after that phone call he was like
white as a ghost and like was just was different
all day. So and then al Ruber right hand man,
Mickey Cohen. Mickey Cohen's in jail. That's the gateway to
the Israelis. And so I have no doubt the order

(01:41:26):
came in at that time. And believe the order came
into him because they knew he had cancer and they
knew he didn't have a whole lot of time. You know,
I think he knew that. When you look at Jack
Ruby's booking photo and compare it to his booking photo
from like he had one from just a couple of
years before that, well he lost, Like that guy was
uny compared.

Speaker 1 (01:41:44):
To what he even even the wedding that him and
his brother Samuel, the one that you showed me, the
wedding that they were at or what, right, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
It was a wedding that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
He was, you know, very healthy looking. I mean in
my in my mind, he was very healthy looking.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
But real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Because I know it's eleven forty two on the East Coast.
I want I want to give the opportunity and respect
to Charles because he's been sitting through this call the
whole time we've been here. Charles, do you do you
have any you want? I want you to take the floor.
Man because I know, I know you got to get
to bed soon.

Speaker 9 (01:42:16):
So well thanks, yeah, man, I you know, I absorb it. It
I I'm over here just trying to absorb as much
as I can. Uh, That's that's my point. Other than that, Uh,
the only thing I could at this point too is
just digress more to James Bond. I mean, that's what
I know. I will tell you. Just over the past

(01:42:39):
few weeks I found Blowfeld, and I know that sounds
absolutely ludicrous.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
But.

Speaker 9 (01:42:46):
The when you say there's nothing to the files, I
agree with you wholeheartedly, except that my angle is that
I I almost feel or fear, or at least it's
a notion that passes my mind, not something I'm dead
said on.

Speaker 4 (01:43:06):
But Kennedy was.

Speaker 9 (01:43:09):
Arguably going to expose all of the files that came
before him, and one is Roosevelt in Pearl Harbor. The
first thing that Kennedy's dad would have wanted him to
do would to find and expose all of Roosevelt's deepest

(01:43:32):
secrets because he despised him, he hated him, at least
that's my understanding.

Speaker 7 (01:43:38):
So Roosevelt. It's interesting you mentioned Roosevelt because I just
this week I study I do a whole another show
on World War Two in the Holocaust, and I study
I just stumbled upon a cash of documents on all
of the documents about from the State Department on the
Holocaust going back from thirty three. And he let me

(01:44:02):
tell you this, he was not America first. That is
a fact. The budding Israeli lobby, which existed for decades
before there was an Israel, had him in their pocket
one hundred percent. So I don't know what the deal
with that is. I don't know if they had something
on him, but anything they said, he did, and the

(01:44:25):
documents are on the FDR Presidential Library to prove it.
It's unbelievable, really, it's really it's crazy, the amount of
blowback he was getting from the public, letters sent to
him about him selling out the country or is fucking this?
I can't. I never knew this stuff. I was just
blown away. Everybody was. There's hundreds of letters written to
him that he sold us out to the Jews, is

(01:44:47):
what they're basically saying, because it was no Israel at
the time. So yes, wild as hell.

Speaker 9 (01:44:53):
So the angle that I have is very, very simple
and direct, and my great uncle made he just absolute, total,
clear and direct statement he was a secret agent in
Tokyo prior to Pearl Harbor. He ended up being arrested

(01:45:13):
with the Zor expiring and tortured and prison and all that,
and then finally he was brought back home during a
secret prisoner exchange. Well, that's the number one thing that
Roosevelt always said was it was never a secret agent
in Japan prior to Pearl Harbor. And then I've got

(01:45:34):
this old man saying, well, I was there, and I
was a secret agent. And not only that, but he
staged a phone call so that Roosevelt could speak to
Stalin over the font directly. So anyhow, that's my angle.
But I don't want to digress topic. I just tried

(01:45:57):
to say that my thoughts are as. The first thing
that Kennedy did when he took to all of us
would have been, hey, you know what happened to Paul Harbor?

Speaker 5 (01:46:10):
What?

Speaker 9 (01:46:10):
Because at that time that was the biggest conspiracy.

Speaker 7 (01:46:13):
Oh yeah, that was a nine to eleven of the
era for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
Right.

Speaker 9 (01:46:16):
And so the very next thing he does is he
makes James Bond famous. But then there is my great
uncle in the White House sitting down in a dining
room with Kennedy having you know, dinner or lunch with him,
and he knows who Jack is and then he tells
Life Magazine. Yeah, one of my favorite stories is from

(01:46:38):
Russia with love then making the whole James Bond series explode.
The only reason why they made movies was because Kennedy
endorsed it, basically, and it's kind of like a shot
across the bow the entire intelligence agency because they all
know all the backstories to all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
Uh, and then it just sort of lit the fire.

Speaker 9 (01:47:03):
And at that point in time, the next book to
be written was Thunderbolt, and that's when they start writing
about the plot to assassinate Kennedy. In that book, they
knew the whole thing going through. I think there were
parts that they didn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:47:19):
It's kind of like.

Speaker 9 (01:47:22):
The movie Imitation Game where the guys cracked the Enigma
code and this one guy says, oh, well, my brother's
on that ship.

Speaker 4 (01:47:30):
I need to call him and warn them, and they're like, no,
you can't.

Speaker 9 (01:47:33):
Your brother's just going to die because if they tell it,
if we let people know that we're listening in in
and we know what's going on, then we won't be
able to listen in anymore. And in a way, that's
what they were doing ahead of the Kennedy assassination. They
didn't perhaps know every aspect of how it was going
to go down, but they knew it was going to happen.

(01:47:55):
My great uncle said, the very first time he learned
of the Kennedy assassination was when they got the tip
off that came from Australia on October the fifteenth, nineteen
sixty two.

Speaker 4 (01:48:07):
He received that cable.

Speaker 9 (01:48:09):
He was operating at at least, he said he did,
at any rate. The point is is that's when he
first learned.

Speaker 5 (01:48:18):
So was that a cable from Operation Mongoose Charles.

Speaker 9 (01:48:23):
No, it's this tip off from a guy I claiming
to work in a Soviet embassy in Australia, And the
CIA says, oh no, it's debunked. But I mean it's
not exactly debunked. They there's no more information for any
of us to know anything about with regards to it.
But it came over on October fifteenth, nineteen sixty two.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
Wow, that is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
So yeah, that would fit within my timeline in my
assessment about when things were starting to really get the
ball rolling.

Speaker 2 (01:48:59):
And you know it's.

Speaker 5 (01:49:02):
Interesting when Corey jumps back in here.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
I I'm a believer of I believe Alan Doles is
pretty much the devil, and I believe that he helped, you know,
get the ball rolling on this whole thing. So whether
the key players were related to it or not, I mean,
I think it all goes back mostly to Dolls, and
of course is really intelligence and other factors, but I

(01:49:28):
think Dolls played a major role in it.

Speaker 7 (01:49:31):
But the only thing about Dallas is that he you'll
never find anything linking him to anything. Of course, not
of course, not you know, like ever, but the guy
he's he made he made a science of knowing everything
and nothing at the same right.

Speaker 5 (01:49:44):
But you know what I mean, But let me let
me let me explain myself real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
And this is why I think it's so important.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
The day that he had gotten fired or slash turned
in his resignation.

Speaker 5 (01:49:56):
You know that he had that ceremony right where he.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
Got that award and that medal, and when Kennedy left,
you know, Dallas like waves at him in the helicopter
and all that stuff. That was probably the most humiliated
he's ever been in his life. I mean, like he
he thought he was virtually a god and he would
be untouchable and his entire you know, I mean the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Bay Pick saying and all that other stuff. I get that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:22):
But when he was able to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
Like dethroned essentially and he still ran operations in Georgetown
after that, but it's secretly.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
But after that, I mean, like.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
The way that how mouseful these people were, especially Angleton
and and Attlee Phillips and all the other guys that
were part of the circle. They were a carbon copy
of their leader, which was Alan DoLS. And I know
where're gonna come from on this, but I'm that's I
believe Dolls played a major factory and we're never gonna know, right,

(01:50:59):
but that's that's my feeling.

Speaker 7 (01:51:03):
Well, you know, it had to have been decided somewhere,
and if the timeline wasn't a little off on the
statement I'm about to make, I would one hundred percent
believe it, and that I've read in numerous places that
the group PERMANDEX had their meeting in the spring of

(01:51:26):
sixty three and that's where it was decided. That makes
one hundred percent sense to me. However, the only problem
we run into is the spring didn't start till after
the rifle was already shipped. So but I the chain
of command, no doubt, the top of the very top
of the pyramid. The guy who didn't give the order
but greenlit. I believe what was brought to him was

(01:51:49):
David ben Gurion. And from Bengurion it goes down to
the Massade, which is basically Rabin Shamir and began right
Shamir and began kicking it with Mickey Cohen in Los
Angeles three weeks before the assassination. Then you have Rabine
in Dallas flight it flew in the night before, was
in Dallas the day of the assassination. These guys, how

(01:52:12):
it trickled down from Permandex was then too because remember
Dallas and Angleton members of Permandex. And then from there
it gets funneled down to Lewis Bloomfield, Centremondial Commercial in Montreal.
That accounts for the trips they took to Montreal using aliases.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the travel log
with Lambert, Yes and Diaz, Yeah, okay, So Lambert is

(01:52:36):
clay Shaw. He used that alias one other time. Diaz
is Sergey Arcacia and it wasn't Oswald, it was Kerry
Thornley was the third person in the flight was flown
by David Ferry. So you got those four guys going
to Montreal using aliases. Okay, that's the CMC connection to
Lewis Bloomfield one hundred percent, because Lewis Boomfield and Clay

(01:52:58):
Shaw both sat on the board of directors of CMC
and PERMANDEX. Anything that has to do with Montreal has
to do with either the Montreal mafia or Lewis Bloomfield.
This case, it's Lewis Bloomfield, and Lewis Bloomfield was a
personal friend of David Ben Gurion, right like, this is
to me, this is also obvious, like and then then

(01:53:19):
that brings us back to once again. Now we have
our cast of characters. We've connected them all to CMC,
PERMANDEX in the Israelis, which is you know, in the CIA,
also through Dulls and Angleton. And then that brings us
directly to the party with Perry Russo and Carrie Thornley
and all the guys discussing the assassination. So to me,
I feel there's an almost too easily provable line from

(01:53:40):
David Ben Gurion, through his top guys, through the Masade,
through permandex to CMC, right to New Orleans clay Shaw
and Net meeting right there. Boom, there you go. That's
the entirety of the of the We don't know the
details of what they said in the meetings or anything
like that, right, but what I just described is the
entirety of the planning phase. And then what does it

(01:54:00):
make you realize when you talk about that meeting with
Perry Russo they were left to figure it out on
their own.

Speaker 9 (01:54:10):
So one of the things I want to do, and
I've been actually looking for somebody that would look at
this and tell me what they think. When you get
a chance, watch the movie Quantum of Soulless and specifically,
the scene I'm interested in is the opera scene, and

(01:54:31):
it's Tosca. Now the particular scene is the prisoner song
of that opera. Now, the New York Philharmonic was playing
the prisoner Song to Fidelio, and both my great uncle
said he was listening to the New York phil Harmonic

(01:54:53):
and Douglas Bizada said he was listening to the New
York phil Armonic. But the one is is that that
opera scene is the music that would have been going
on as Kennedy is shot and killed, and then they identify.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
Individuals that are behind.

Speaker 9 (01:55:15):
Uh the assassination at that point in time, and then
they wrap it all up with a portrayal of the
murder of Tippet.

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
Hmmm.

Speaker 7 (01:55:27):
Interesting. I will watch that that I think I have
on Netflix or something.

Speaker 9 (01:55:30):
Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna head out.

Speaker 5 (01:55:33):
Thank you, guys, uh, thank you, thank you, Charles.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
You have a great night.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
And uh, by the way, for our listeners, I know
you and I still have some paperwork to do about
your show. But what uh what what timeframe are we
looking at about when you're gonna start your show?

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
Because I plugged it for you, and uh yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:55:51):
We're in no hurry. I've got a friend again, he
and I have. I got connected with him of course
because I was trying to research World War two stuff
my great uncle. And he is a World War two
history uh guy, mostly about basically history that doesn't exist accordingly,

(01:56:11):
I mean classified.

Speaker 5 (01:56:14):
So kind of kind of like the Cory Hughes of
World War two, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:56:19):
In a way.

Speaker 9 (01:56:20):
So, uh, I we both are busy as hell. We
both worked a lot. We are going back and forth
talking about and trying to set up like a handful
of series we can do. And I floated the idea
of a title just saying classified history a nice simple
name to it.

Speaker 4 (01:56:39):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:56:39):
And but what if we're we're a month away at
least before the first show at least Okay, great, yeah, okay, yea,
all right, So yeah, and that's that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
The only reason why that I was I'm so you know,
you you see my.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
Postly I've been pretty dulls heavy on on on a
lot of this stuff because again, I just I feel like,
you know, with him and Angleton and just the residuals
that came down from from all that, to me, it
just seems like it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
It it really adds up.

Speaker 1 (01:57:15):
But yes, when you when you talk about the other organizations,
that makes complete sense.

Speaker 7 (01:57:23):
M Yeah. So I don't spend a lot of my
time on on overt SSAF like at all. It just doesn't.
We know they were involved, and we know they're gonna
lie about it, and so I'm like whatever, yeah, you
know so.

Speaker 1 (01:57:38):
And you're never gonna see any important files from Angleton
or Dulls or any of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
So it's it's what's the use of even trying.

Speaker 1 (01:57:44):
But you know, but I don't know how much of
the March dumped it. Did you read any of the
March dump at all? Or did you just kind of just.

Speaker 7 (01:57:52):
I just kind of skimmed it. There's never anything good
in any of them. It's always the same old ship.

Speaker 9 (01:57:56):
Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:57:56):
This lessons you remember was okay, But I I the
one that I thought that was actually to me, and
I brought this up to you several times.

Speaker 2 (01:58:04):
As the Underhill document, I just thought that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
You know, he just mentioned, like, you know, the involvement
of the CIA and the thing he didn't mention. It
was just really weird because you know, most of those
files had to do with Cuba and the Soviet Union,
and it.

Speaker 5 (01:58:19):
Was they were staged there for a particular reason.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
There's not going to be anything on the CIA like
you're talking about, and there's not going to be anything
on the Massade.

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
There's not going to be anything on you know, any
any of.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
The groups that you're talking about. It's just it's not
going to be there. But the thing I really appreciated
was the little breadcrumb they left about Underhill, because Underhill
was the one that you know, he allegedly committed suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:58:46):
He shot himself twice in the back of the head,
you know, like a lot of these other guys do.

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
And it's just that was a little breadcrumb that I
don't know if that was supposed to be there or not,
but I thought that was very fascinating.

Speaker 7 (01:59:00):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:59:02):
Yeah so, but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:59:06):
But anyways, man, yeah, we're getting about nine o'clock. But
in my time, you're your Central time, right or are you?

Speaker 2 (01:59:12):
I'm in Mountain okay, so you're ten o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:59:14):
Okay, perfect, Yeah, all right, man, Well looking forward to
the show on Wednesday. Do you have anything that you'd
like to talk to tell anybody at the audience before
you take off or nope.

Speaker 7 (01:59:25):
Just pick up my book on Amazon and that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
That's right, and I'll get those links out to everybody.
And dude, thanks again for hopping on and you all
have a great night, Corey.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
Thanks again, man, I appreciate it. Yeah, all right, tack care,
good night.

Speaker 4 (01:59:40):
Bye.

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