Warren Commission Testimony of Marguerite Oswald Part 8

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, everybody. Corey used bloody history. We are going
to continue on with the testimony of Marguerite Oswald. And
even though it's not Marguerite Oswald, right, we know that right,
So let me begin. The commission will be in order.

(00:26):
You may now continue, mister Rankan. Missus Oswald then says
mister Rankin, you mentioned about the sixteen hundred dollars. Now,
I don't know if you know for a fact that
Lee had sixteen hundred dollars. It was publicized in the
paper that he had sixteen hundred dollars, which is right
here in nineteen fifty nine. Did he tell you anything
about that at that time, No, sir. He gave me

(00:47):
one hundred dollars, and he and his brother Robert had arrived.
And I'm assuming it was over me because Robert did
not help me, and I have made that public in
the Red Cross papers, that he had a family of
their own that they probably thought their duty was to
their family. I had no help from the other two boys,
and he gave me one hundred dollars and I stayed

(01:08):
in this little place a few weeks, and then I
got the job for five dollars a week and that
is Lee's defection. So here's my only contact with Lee
and Russia at the Metropol Hotel. This is dated December eighteenth,
nineteen fifty nine. Now I've settled with the insurance company
and I have a little money, so I sent the
check to Lee for twenty dollars and this is his

(01:30):
little note. The only contact I had with Lee from
the time of his immediate defection until the State Department
two years later informed me of my son's address. And
this is his little note that he needs money. So
I would say that Lee didn't save sixteen hundred dollars
according to this proof. Now we're speculating, as you will admit,
because you thought the letter to the school was from me,

(01:53):
and you will have to admit that I have given
you new evidence. And so maybe Lee didn't have sixteen
hundred dollars because he's asking for money there. That is
when he's right in Moscow. Mister Rangan says, of course,
that is quite a while later, and she says, no, sir,
he defected the end of November. This is December nineteen

(02:15):
fifty nine, Rakan says. But he she cuts him off.
He had to make passage and have some money. I
don't know if it took sixteen hundred dollars, I do
not know, sir, But I'm saying five weeks later he
needed money. We haven't gotten to this file yet. I
will quote from a newspaper, the Star Telegram nineteen fifty nine,

(02:35):
his defection by Missus Eileen Moseby, who interviewed Lee in
Moscow and says, here, I saw my mother always as
a worker, always with less than we could use, he said.
He insisted his childhood was happy, despite his poverty. We
had a very happy family, he insisted. This is the story.
In nineteen fifty nine, Lee had a normal childhood. And

(02:57):
now he's criticizing the United States. He says many things
bothered him in the United States, raised discrimination, harsh treatment
of underdog communists, and hate. Then on the other letter,
he's going to Russia to write a book. And there
is another story and another story, and all kinds of stories.

(03:17):
So what are we to believe, gentlemen? Is he throwing
us off the track because he is an agent. We're
talking about speculation and newspaper papers and so on. And
we know that when he came back he did go
to missus Bates Fort Worth's stenographer and talked about the
Soviet Union. She made it public and he only had
ten dollars, and he did not finish that story, and

(03:40):
she said he was very nervous. And he did not
say that he was an agent, but she got the
impression that he was an agent. This has been made
public in the Star Telegram. If you do not have that,
I do, Ranken, says missus Oswald. Is that the photostatic
copy of the letter about his booking passage, Yes, sir,
you read the original, Yes, sir. And this material on

(04:02):
the bottom is just your own writing. Yes, this was
in this book. That is my writing at the bottom.
The letter I was referring to is Exhibit two hundred. Yes, sir,
it's this letter we offer in evidence Exhibit two hundred. Admitted.
The document referred to was marked commissioned Exhibit two hundred

(04:22):
and received in evidence. Now this one starting dear mother,
received your letter and so forth. That's the one about
the Marines, when he was asking you about getting out
of the service and your need and so forth. This
is the letter which shows the different character of the
boy that the newspapers are making of him. When I
wrote and told him I had sold my furniture and

(04:43):
that my compensation in medical was stopped. Immediately, my son
sends a special delivery letter and that is the letter received.
Your letter was very unhappy. I've contacted the Red Cross
and they will contact you. This is a nice boy
to do this immediately when he finds his mother is
in trouble. He's not allous like the papers have been
making him out. He might have had some bad points,

(05:04):
but so do all of us. We will ask the
reporter to mark this. The document referred to was Mark
Commission's Exhibit number two oh one for identification Exhibit two
oh one. Is the letter you're referring to, Yes, sir,
we offer an evidence Exhibit two oh one admitted. The
document referred to was marked Commissions Exhibit number two oh

(05:27):
one and received into evidence then, Missus Oswald. The other
one that you received from Russia with the check and
the little note from your son Lee is the one
I'm showing you. Yes, sir, will you mark that as
exhibit two oh two. The document referred to was Mark
Commission's Exhibit number two oh two for identification. We offer
him to exhibit into evidence Exhibit number two oh two

(05:49):
and asked to leave as to substitute a copy admitted missus.
Oswald then says, I followed up that request and set
the twenty dollars bill in an envelope, and I have
all of this, but I'm not going to go through
all this paper. You will have all of this. Dolla says,
Did that get through just as a matter of curiosity, Yes,

(06:12):
that's what I'm going to tell you. So I put
a twenty dollars bill immediately in an envelope and sent
it to Lee. And then after I thought about it,
I thought of a foreign money order, and gentlemen, I
have all this in black and white for you, and
this gentleman will copy and have it everything I'm saying.
So then I went to the bank and I got
a foreign money order for twenty five dollars and I
sent it to Lee. It all went airmail, but it

(06:33):
came back two months later. Mister Dallies. The twenty dollars
bill I got back in cash and the Chase National
Bank foreign money order. That check came back in cash.
I will have that proof for you. I understand it
comes back by boat, and that's why it took so long.
So I had no way of knowing that my contact
with my son was received successful. I didn't know until

(06:54):
about two months later he'd not received my money. And
by that time, well, I didn't know where he was
because I came to Washington in January of sixty one
and had a conference with mister Boster, mister Stanfield. Rankin
then says, do you think he was a Russian agent
at this time? No, sir, I do not think he

(07:14):
was a Russian agent. Representative Ford says, I thought you
answered in response to a question I asked, when you
thought he was an agent? You said he defected. Missus
Oswald says, I might have said defected to Russia. No, sir,
I never thought Lee was a Russian agent. Representative Ford,
I met an agent of the United States. It is
my recollection that you said, when he defected to the

(07:35):
Soviet Union, you then thought that he was an American agent. Yes,
that is right, that is correct. What else caused you
to think he was an American agent? All right? I
might be letting things out the way I am. I
might be letting things out the way I'm going, and
I'm very unhappy about this. Had I started with this,
had I started with his childhood. I could have worked

(07:57):
up to age fifteen very peacefully, and you'd have gotten everything.
I hope. I'm not forgetting anything important. But now we
have letters from the State Department. Okay, So the Warren
Commission is, if you remember the last episode, they are
not allowing her to talk about Lee's childhood prior to
what was in New York City, which he was like thirteen,

(08:21):
and then he came back to New Orleans and that's
where they kind of picked it up. And then they
went to the Collinwood address in Fort Worth, and so
they're not letting her talk about his childhood, which is
seemingly a cover that she has to be in on
because she wasn't around for Lee's childhood at all. We
have no evidence of Harvey popping up. Really, we have

(08:44):
them in forty five. We have the contradictory addressed stuff
at the Willing Street address, and San Saba, we have
all that stuff, right, but we have that photograph from
the Bronx Zoo in nineteen fifty three. Okay, so it
seems as though they're not allowing any testimony to come
in that could contradict anything before that. See, this is
great because this is truly allowing me to figure out

(09:08):
like the timing of when they did certain things, and
the timing of when the final switcheroo happened. So the
event in the Bronx when he's photographed at the Bronx Zoo,
which is allegedly July or August of fifty three. If
that's the case, then it's July of fifty three. But
I already have evidence that Robert Oswald had gone to

(09:30):
New York way before July and August, more like, you know,
November December, before Christmas time. So let me continue here.
I'm going to reread that last paragraph because it didn't
sit well with me. All Right, I might be letting
things out the way I am going. I am very

(09:52):
unhappy about this. I don't understand what that sentence means.
Had I started with his childhood, I could have worked
up to age fifteen very peacefully. You'd have gotten everything.
I hope. I'm not forgetting anything important. But now we
have letters from the State Department. Well, my trip to
Washington has come before the letters to the State Department, sir,
So I'm in conference with the three men. I showed
them the letter from the application at the Albert Sweitzer School,

(10:16):
and Lee's mail had been coming to my home. I
didn't know whether he was living or dead. I did
not want to mail these papers, so I made a
personal trip to Washington. I arrived at Washington at eight
o'clock in the morning. I took a train and borrowed
money on an insurance policy I have, which I have proof.
I had a bank account of thirty six dollars which
I drew out and bought a pair of shoes, and

(10:36):
I have all that in proof, sir. The date that
I left for the train, it was three days and
three nights and two days on the train or two
days and three nights. Anyhow, I took a coach and
sat up. I arrived at the station eight o'clock in
the morning, and I called the White House. A Negro
man was on the switchboard, and he said the offices
were not open yet. They didn't open un till nine o'clock.

(10:57):
He asked if I would leave my number. I asked
to speak to the president, and he said the offices
were not open yet. I said, well, I have just
arrived here in Fort Worth, Texas, and I will call
back at nine o'clock. So I called back at nine o'clock.
Everybody was just gracious to me over the phone. They
said the President Kennedy was in a conference and they
would be happy to take any message. I asked to
speak to Secretary Rusk, and they connected me with that office.

(11:20):
And this young lady said he was in a conference,
but anything she could do for me. I said, yes,
I have come to town about a son of mine
who is lost in Russia. I do want to speak.
I would like to personally speak to Secretary Rusk. So
she got off the line a few minutes. Whether she
gave him the message or what, I don't know. She
came back and said, Missus Oswald, mister Rusk. So evidently

(11:42):
she handed him a note and mister Boster was on
the line that you talked to mister Boster, who was
Special Officer in charge of Soviet Union affairs, if I'm correct.
And mister Boster was on the line. I told him
who I was. He said, yes, I'm familiar with the case,
Missus Oswald. He said, will an eleven o'clock appointment be
all right with you? Is tine o'clock in the morning.
So I said, this is quite an interesting story. I said, mister,

(12:03):
mister Boster, that would be fine, but I'd rather not
talk with you. I didn't know who mister Bost was.
I said, I would rather talk with Secretary of State Rusk. However,
if I'm unsuccessful in talking with him, then I will
keep my appointment with you. So I asked mister Boster.
I said, mister Boster, would you please recommend a hotel
that would be reasonable. He said, I don't know how reasonable,
missus Oswald, but I recommend the Washington Hotel. It will

(12:25):
be near the State Department and convenient to you. So
I went to the Washington Hotel and as we know, gentlemen,
there were nothing but men. They asked me if I
had a reservation. I said no, I didn't, but mister
Boster of the State Department recommended that I come here.
So they fixed me up with a room. I took
a bath and dressed. I went to the appointment. Because
this is nine thirty, I'm on the phone and I

(12:47):
had to take a cab to the hotel. I arrived
at mister Boster's office at ten thirty. But before arriving
at mister Boster's office, I stopped at a telephone in
the corridor, and I called Dean Rusk's office again because
I didn't want to see mister Boster. And I asked
to speak to Dean Rusk, and the young lady said,
Missus Oswald talked to mister Boster. At least it's a start.

(13:07):
So then I entered around the corridor into mister Boster's office.
I have all the pictures of the State Department and
everything to prove this story is true. I told the
young lady, I am Missus Oswald. I have an eleven
o'clock appointment. Mister Boster came out and said, Missus Oswald,
and MO, awfully glad you came early because we're going
to have a terrible snowstorm and we have orders to
leave early and in order to get home. So we
called mister Stanfield. The arrangements had been made. Now the

(13:29):
other man, I don't have that name here for you,
mister Rankin, is it mister Hickey. Yes, mister Hickey, you're correct.
So then we were in conference. So I showed the
papers like I'm showing here, and I said, now, I
know you are not going to answer me, gentlemen, but
I'm under the impression that my son is an agent.
Do you mean a Russian agent? I said, no, working
for our government, a US agent. And I want to

(13:50):
say this that if he is, I don't appreciate it
too much because I'm destitute and just getting over sickness.
On that order, I had the audacity to say that
I had gone through all this without medical, without money,
without compensation. I am a desperate woman. So I said that,
what did they say to you? They did not answer that.

(14:10):
I even said to them, no, you won't tell me,
so I didn't expect them to answer that. Did you
mean they were seeking money from them? No, sir, you
were seeking money from them? No, sir, I don't think
that my son should have gone in a foreign country
and me being alone. What I was saying was that
I think my son should be home with me, is
what I really implied. Did you tell them that? In

(14:33):
other words that I said before. I didn't come out
and say that I wanted my home, but I implied
that if he was an agent, and that I thought
he needed to be home. Did you say anything about
believing that your son might know full well what he
was doing and trying to defect to the Soviet Union,
he might like it better there than he did here.
I do not remember saying this. I know what I
did say, and they agreed with me, I said, because

(14:55):
I remember this distinctly, I said, now he's been exploited
all through the page, or as a defector, if he
is a defector, because as we stated before, I don't
know that he is an agent, serb. And if he
is a defector, that is his privilege as an individual.
And they said, missus Oswald, we want you to know
that we feel the same way about it. That was
their answer. Did you say anything about possibly he liked

(15:18):
the Soviet way of life better than ours? I may have.
I do not remember, sir, Honestly, I may have said that.
I recall that they agreed with me, and they said,
we want him also to do what he wants to do.
So now this is January second sixty one, and this
is my trip to Washington. Approximately eight weeks later, on
March twenty, second sixty one, which is eight weeks, I
received a letter from the State Department informing me of

(15:38):
my son's address. Do you recall that they assured you
there was no evidence he was an agent. No, sir,
there was no comment to that effect, and they told
you to dismiss any ideas from your mind. No, sir,
they did not. Are you sure they didn't tell you that.
I'm positive, I said to them, of course, I don't
expect you to answer me. No, sir, there was nothing
mentioned about the agent at all. And in fact, I

(16:01):
would think, just as a layman, that the State Department
would not even consider discussing that with me. But I mean,
it was not discussed. I am positive of that. I think,
pause and just comment on something I'm catching here. She's saying. Here,
her trip is January second, sixty one to Washington, and

(16:21):
she's bringing articles and stuff and documents and papers to
the White House. And mister bost is his name. I
don't remember whatever. But hew, here's the problem. The nine
hundred and eighty six page file on Marguerite Oswald is

(16:45):
dated in nineteen sixty the one that goes back to
nineteen forty one and talks about the Nazis in New
Jersey and all that stuff. When you look at that
cover sheet, and that's how we know this document exists.
The nine hundred and eight eighty six page document. It's
got some weird indications on it because it has like

(17:06):
your normal headings and stuff, and then it says received from.
You know, when you have like a when you send
a letter in the CIA or FBI or whatever in
inter government, it'll say in the name of the person's
going to, name of the person that's coming from, and
it'll have a whole bunch of other data in there,
and some codes and whatnot. The nine hundred and eighty

(17:30):
six page file has Marguerite Oswald's name in the from line,
but that doesn't make a goddamn bit of sense at
all the way that that cover sheet is laid out.
If you took it at face value, it would seem
to indicate that Marguerite Oswald provided the government in nineteen

(17:55):
sixty with nine hundred and eighty six page file. But
that doesn't make any sense at all, does it. Why
would Marguerite Oswald be putting together a file that was
then memoed to people at FBI or CIA. The notes
at the bottom of this document say final release, meaning

(18:23):
whether or not it could be transferred from where it's
at now to the investigators was dependent upon ONI. So
Naval Intelligence is in possession of this nine hundred and
eighty six page file. The routing sheet that was going
between FBI agents. I believe it was because I don't

(18:45):
have too many CIA documents that indicates that it was
from Marguerite Oswald. But that cannot be correct. Just explain
to me how that could possibly be correct? Right? So
that gives us a lot of problems because Number one,
if she sent a nine hundred and eighty six page file,

(19:05):
that doesn't make any sense. But if she did hypothetically,
and that was in nineteen sixty, what is she bringing
to these people here in nineteen sixty one these couple
articles and pages that she has so to me, that
totally nullifies the idea that she had anything to do
with sending a nine hundred and eighty six page file.
But they did have and were in possession of a

(19:26):
nine hundred and eighty six page file in nineteen sixty,
which is before this trip to Washington. Right, you see
what I'm saying, Like, this doesn't make sense here? And
why is it Naval intelligence who has to sign off
on the final release of that file to FBI, which
wasn't done. I don't believe the file wasn't released if
I'm not mistaken, So that doesn't make any sense at all.

(19:51):
Let me continue. If they recorded in a memorandum as
of that date that they did say to you, that
would be incorrect. That is incorrect, emphatically incorrect. That is
incorrect because I said, I don't expect you to tell me.
But if he is an agent, I didn't think it

(20:11):
was the thing to do. Well. On January twenty first
was my trip to Washington nineteen sixty one. Approximately eight
weeks later, March twenty second, nineteen sixty one, I received
a letter from the State Department informing me of my
son's address, which you probably have If you don't, sir,
I have the copies, and also stating that my son
wishes to return back to the United States. Just eight
weeks after my trip to Washington. That's probably about correct.

(20:35):
Now you want to know why I think my son's
an agent, and I've been telling you all along. Here
is a very important thing, why my son was an agent.
On March twenty second, I received a letter of his
address and stating my son wished to return back to
the United States. You have that, sir. Yes. On April thirtieth,
sixty one, he marries a Russian girl. Approximately five weeks later. Now,
why does a man who wants to come back to

(20:56):
the United States five weeks later. Here's a proof. April
thirty to sixty one is the wedding date marry a
Russian girl. Because I say, and I may be wrong,
the US embassy has ordered him to marry this Russian girl.
And a few weeks later May sixteen sixty one, he's
coming home with the Russian girl. And as we know,
he goes out of the Soviet Union with the Russian
girl with money loan to him by the US embassy.

(21:18):
I may be wrong, gentlemen, but two and two in
my books makes four. Oh my fucking god. You know
I hate this woman, but I actually love her for
this one paragraph. This is absolutely brilliant on her part,
absolutely flawless logic here by the false Marguerite Oswald. I

(21:42):
have many more things that can go to this and
that has been published. I will probably never know whether
my son was an agent, because I do not expect
to be told these facts. But isn't it peculiar that
a boy is coming home and the embassy informs me
of that. I have all this, mister Rankin, and you
know I do. You will have the copies and then
five weeks later, he marries a Russian girl. And the
proof of it is that he does come home with

(22:03):
the Russian girl in a short length of time. And
Lee would have been home one year earlier. But because
of the lack of money to come home. Did you
ever ask him whether he married the Russian girl because
they'd ordered him to. No, Sir, I've never asked Lee
any questions of that kind. The only question I asked
Lee was when they were living with me that one month,

(22:24):
and I said, Lee, I want to know one thing.
Why is it you came back to the United States
when you had a job and you were married to
a Russian girl, and they sent me lovely gifts and
photographs and everything, so they seem to be well off.
I have a beautiful scarf. They sent me tea boxes
of candy, which the postage is terrific. He says, not
even Marina knows that. And that is the only question

(22:44):
I have ever asked my son. This may be hard
to believe, but I've explained to you over and over
that I think we as individuals have a right to
our own life. You saw your daughter in law and
your son living together with you, didn't you for some time. Yes,
they lived with me one month. Did you think they
were in love with each other? Yes, they were definitely
in love with each other. Yes, I think they were

(23:05):
in love with each other. Do you think at the
time it was just because he was an agent in
order to marry her that he married her? No, I
wouldn't say this. This is purely speculation. He knew Marina
and he loved Marina. They met at a dance, so
that was he had a girlfriend. Were you're saying if
he's an agent? If? I have to say if, then

(23:26):
he tells the embassy that he's in love with a
Russian girl, and so it's a good idea to bring
the Russian girl to the United States. He will have
the contacts. Now, when I was in Missus Payne's home,
on the table was a lot of papers from Lee
the Daily Worker I happened to know about, and many
many subversive Now, I say, if Lee is going to
assassinate a president, or Lee is anything that he's otherwise

(23:47):
an agent, Lee would not have all these other things.
He would not have his finger in everything. He would
not be reading only Communism and Marxism, that he would
be a fanatic about one thing and have a cause
to assassinate the president. But that is not the picture
of Lee. Harvey Oswald. Lee has his hand in everything.
What do you mean by everything? Well, Cuba, because we

(24:07):
know in New Orleans he was arrested for fair play
for Cuba. He read the Daily Worker and the other ones.
I don't know, but it was in the paper. There
is plenty of subversive material. What about books? Did he
read books much while he was living with you? Yes,
he read continuously. He went immediately to the library. Upon
coming to the US. He read continuously all kinds of books.

(24:28):
I tried when he defected. I went to the library
to find out the kind of literature that Lee read.
But they could not give me that information. He said.
The only way to give me that information was when
a book was overdue and was out, But otherwise they
have no record. Now it's been stated in the paper.
Maybe New Orleans is different. I don't know, but I
know in Fort Worth I could not get the information

(24:49):
stated he had books the assassination of Huey Long and
things of that sort. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's fucking wild
because it was Oswald's fucking uncle who shot Huey Long.
Paul Polo Voi Tier was one of two guys the
other guy named Messina I believe who were believed to

(25:12):
have been the guys who actually shot Huey Long. I
gotta ran, I should really do a deep dive on
Huey Long. At some point I just got like, you know,
I don't know twenty years of to do list with
fucking Kennedy, right, so damn reading books on the assassination
of Huey Long. I wonder if he knew that it
was his uncle. Well, it's Harvey we're talking about. So

(25:37):
I don't know, man, I just don't know. They must
have had a different system, because in Fort Worth, Texas,
they do not have that system. The only way they
can tell if a book is out. But I know
Lee red and I have stated in nineteen fifty nine
all of this, anyway, from Vincent Peale on down to
anything you want to mention Lee read continuously. Now, is
there any time that Marina said anything to you that

(25:58):
led you to believe that she thought your son Lee
married her because he was an agent. No, sir, not
at any time at all you think she loved him.
I believe that Marina loved him in a way. But
I believe that Marina wanted to come to America. I
believe that Lee had talked to America to her and
she wanted to come to America. I say this for
a lot of things that happened, that Marina wanted to
come to America. Maybe she loved him, I am sure

(26:20):
she did. Anyway she said that she did. I'm not
clear about this being ordered to marry her. You don't
mean that your son didn't love her. Well, I could
mean that if he's an agent and he has a
girlfriend and it is to the benefit of the country
that he married this girlfriend, and the embassy helped him
to get this Russian girl out of Russia. Let's face it, well,
whether he loved her or not, he would not take

(26:41):
her to America and that would give him contact with Russians. Yes, sir,
is that what you mean? I would say that, And
you don't think it was because your son loved her,
then I do not know whether my son loved her
or not. You see how she just flip flopped in
this whole fucking conversation, just like Lilian Morett flip flopping.
But I'm telling you why he would do this In

(27:02):
five weeks time. Now you have a five week period
in there. I understand that, but I think it's a
very serious thing to say about your son, that he
would do a thing like that to a girl. No, sir,
it's not a serious thing. I know a little bit
about the CIA and so on, the U two powers
and the things that have been made public. They go
through any extreme for their country. I do not think

(27:23):
that would be serious for him to marry a Russian
girl and bringer here so that he would have a contact.
I think that is all part of an agent's duty.
You think your son was capable of doing that? Yes, sir,
I think my son was an agent. I certainly do.
Have you got anything more that caused you to think
he was an agent? Yes, I have things that have
been coming out in the paper, And I'm not the
only one that thinks my son was an agent. There's

(27:44):
been many, many publications questioning whether Lee was an agent
or not because of circumstances and so on and so
forth through the newspapers. That is, in newspaper accounts you're
talking about now, Yes, And as I said about the FBI,
what about your knowledge, Well, that's why I wanted to
go into the story. I wouldn't have become emotionally upset
had I started in sequence I told you about him

(28:06):
not wanting me to see that program. And then the letters.
There's so much about him being an agent, and all
of his correspondence with the embassy in Moscow. I have
the letters in the hotel. One of the letters stated
that the Russians cannot hold you. The Russians cannot hold you.
You're an American citizen. You're not a bona fide Russian citizen.
We have the letters. You have a copy of the letter,
mister Rankin, and if you will show this letter to

(28:29):
the Russians, they cannot hold you in Minsk. They would
say that about you if you were over there, or anyone.
The point I'm trying to bring there is Lee has
always been an American citizen, according to all my papers
from the State Department. Yes, and they would say that
about anyone. All right, I will grant you that You're
probably right. So that doesn't prove he's an agent that

(28:49):
I can see. Now, how do you feel it shows
that he was an agent because he has the sanction
of the American embassy all through this affair. Oh, hang on,
a second, Hang on a second. Somethings just kind of
struck me, you know, when like you got a dope
dealer and he's got to drive like across the state

(29:10):
or something and doesn't want to get caught, and so
if there's a chance that the cops are gonna get
onto them, they have like a bait car that will
do something. So the cop will go and pull that
car over and get off the tail of the of
the dope dealer with the dope in the car. What

(29:31):
a fucking Lee Oswald and going into the to Russia
and him being in the papers as a defector and
saying I want to defect and all this stuff that
made a lot of ruckus. What if he was the
bait car. What if there was something else going on
that they needed to distract from with this American defector?

(29:55):
What else was going on between at the CIA and
possibly in Russia and let's just say September fifty nine
through December fifty nine, what was going on there? But
here's the biggest problem that we run into with all
these stories is that the Albert Schweitzer school application that

(30:17):
was filled out in March of fifty nine, right, and
there was correspondence back with him to the Marines that said, hey,
we have room for you in like the April semester
of sixty right, and he has we have those letters, right,
they're well documented. This is like months and months and
months before he ever leaves the Marines. So that means

(30:41):
the entire story about the hardship letter is nonsense. Right.
This is the sheep dipping activity. This is absolutely one
the sheep dipping activity. Because in March of fifty nine,
Lee Oswald will do a whole bunch of testing. He'll
do the Russian test, he'll get is ged, he'll do

(31:01):
a lot of administrative stuff. He goes to just prior
to that, he goes to Yuma, Arizona, and then he
goes to San Francisco because he's taking part in some
kind of like military training exercises, right, And so immediately
after that he's back in Santa Anna in March, and
then he's knocking out all this testing and stuff. Right.

(31:23):
So that's the issue there. So what it tells me
is that the Albert Schweitzer School, the testing, the Russian test,
all the stuff was administered to him. All this was
done as part of a ploy in March. Why'd they
do it in March? Maybe because they knew the correspondence

(31:44):
from Albert Sweitzer School would take months, and that's why
they did it so far in advance. But it leaves
a trae. How could the fucking Marines not have they
had documentation of those letters to him? Right, They keep
track of all the correspondence in and out. How the
fuck could they not have known about that? Right? All

(32:07):
the testing happens, the application of the Albert Switzer School
happens all in March of fifty nine, and then he
puts in for the hardship. The hardship application goes in
at like was it August? And then he's out by September.
So that's awful unusual. Yeah, it's all part of the

(32:33):
It was all planned in advance. It had to have been.
So I'm questioning some of these. I'm questioning why they
brought up the Albert Switzer application and then it never
got into the date or explained any what I just
told you. All right, let me continue. So that doesn't
prove he's an agent that I can see. Now, how
do you feel it shows he was an agent because
he has the sanction of the American Embassy all through

(32:54):
this affair, they would give that to any of us.
All right, so you're telling me, but this man is
married to a Russian girl and does come back within
a short time, and could have come back sooner. It
was the lack of money. And that's another thing, the
State Department repeatedly writing me, and I have the letters
for the money. I have copies of my letters. Also,
I could not raise the money. I said, I had

(33:15):
a fifty four Buick car, and all I could get
alone on was two hundred and fifty dollars. When did
she have a fifty four Buick? Well, obviously it was
after fifty four, So that means hang on a second,
Hang on the second, hang on a second. Let's let's
just fucking work this out here. She had a fifty
four Buick, she didn't have it in fifty four. Fifty

(33:40):
four is in New Orleans, fifty five. She couldn't have
had a new car in fifty five or could she
have had the car in fifty four When they made
it back to Fort Worth? Did they have a fucking
car at two tutu zero Thomas Place? Did the false
Marguerite have a buick at Thomas Place. That's a big
question because after Thomas Place, they're back in New Orleans, well,

(34:04):
at least one of them is in New Orleans, and
Harvey is probably still in Fort Worth. And so when
the fuck did you have a fifty four buick? This
is important? This fifty four buick is majorly important because
she's not to ever ever have had a car. So

(34:26):
when the fuck did Marguerite Oswald allegedly have a fifty
four buick? If someone wants to find that out, they'd
be fantastic. They wrote back and said, you could ask
some friends, or do you have any relatives? Eight hundred
and similar dollars they needed, and I went to twelve
very prominent people in Vernon, Texas, one who is a
very respected citizen that they recommended me to go, who

(34:46):
has a citizen award, and I felt very confident maybe
he would help me. I told him that my son,
who was a very young man who was an American citizen,
is trying to get back to the United States, but
there's a lack of money and if he knew of
any possible way he could help me. He said, you
mean he's an defector. I said, possibly. So the paper
said he was a defector. And he said, well, I'm sorry,
Missus Oswald, but these boys that are in the service

(35:08):
and defect I don't have any use for. And I said,
don't you go to church, sir? He said, yes, I do.
I said, probably you go to church to put that
on your hat. Because here's a boy. Let's say he
has made a mistake. He's gone to Russia. But let's
say he realizes now he made a mistake and he
wants to come back here. You tell me you won't
help him. That's what I'm telling you, Missus Oswald, I
don't have any use for anybody, which Senator Tower said

(35:30):
that he would help, not help Lee, which made it public.
These are nice people saying this, So she went to
She went to John Tower directly. That's interesting. I say,
the ones who are down and out are the ones
who need the help. This boy was a young boy.

(35:50):
Let's say he is not an agent. Let's say he
just affected to Russia. Yet he wants to come back.
He deserved a helping hand. I went to twelve people
I did not beg but I presented by Kate, and
not one offered to help. Didn't you understand that the State
Department had to try to find out if they could
or you or your son could get the money from
other sources before they could advance the money. Yes, sir,

(36:12):
I understand that. I'm trying to tell you that I
tried awful hard but with no success. So they were
just trying to do their duty in that regard, were
they not. It could be, yes, it could be. You
don't think that makes him an agent just because they
asked you. I think, well, as you say, they would
probably help anyone. And then again because he's married to

(36:32):
a Russian girl, because all of these documents and everything
are handled through the US embassy, and because of my
trip to Washington, which was a red carpet treatment. Let's say, gentlemen,
of a woman gets on the phone at nine o'clock
and has an appointment at eleven o'clock with three big men,
that is wonderful treatment. Now, they probably would do that
to anybody. I don't know they might have done that.

(36:52):
I haven't been that fortunate before, said Miss Oswald. Well,
that shouldn't be held against them if they treated you nicely. No,
I have told you, mister Rankan. They were most gracious
to me. The administration was most gracious to me. Rankan says,
I don't see why you should think that because they
treated you nicely, that was any sign he was an agent. Well,
maybe you don't see why. But this is my son,

(37:14):
and this is the way I think, because I happened
to know all the other things that you don't know,
the life and everything. I happened to think this, and
this is my privilege to think this way. And I
can almost back it up with these things. Okay, So
maybe she's trying to tell them that she was an
agent without telling them that she was an agent, right,
because obviously she's in on this body swap thing. She's
obviously maybe just a really purely just a caretaker, really

(37:39):
just purely a caretaker, someone who took care of the
kid while she had some bullshit jobs, while Marguerite Oswald
was out doing whatever the fuck she was doing. Because
we totally lose track of her. By fucking sixty, right,
fifty nine to sixty, she's out the door, and so
is Lee. All right, let me continue this. This is

(38:00):
a stranger to you, folks, but this is a boy
I've known from child, from a child. Wait a minute,
this is a stranger to you, folks. But this is
a boy I have known from a child. Well, shouldn't
she have known him his whole life? Shouldn't she have
said that very differently? Shouldn't she have said, this is

(38:21):
a boy I have known from a child. That's not
something you say about your own son. How much money
do you think you received for being an agent that
I do not know? You have no idea, But I
do know this, and I have stated this. I have
approximately nine hundred and some odd dollars and I lost

(38:42):
my job. That can be proven. I was a nurse
on the three to eleven shift, working in a rest
home for a very wealthy woman, and it would have
been at least a year, at least a year and
a half, because it was not that bad off. She's
just an awful invalid. She's going to live quite a while.
When I returned home from the six Flags on Thanksgiving Day,
the deputy sheriff at Fort Worth, Texas went to get

(39:04):
my pay and the nurse the seven to three thirty
o'clock nurse I went three to eleven, and my patient
cried and said that they were awfully sorry, but they
could not have me back on the case that the
woman at the rest home refused to have me. Now,
I was not working for the rest home. I was
doing private duty. But I understand that. Okay, I need
to work out this timeline of where she was fucking working.

(39:27):
But I understand that this is her place of business
and my presence there might have been her money part,
But this is our Christian way of life. The boy
was accused of killing the president with no proof, and
then the mother loses her job. Now that's my position.
You asked me the question. But Marina has thirty five
thousand dollars publicly. What she has I do not know. Now, gentlemen,

(39:47):
thirty five thousand dollars is a lot of money in
donation and dribs and drabs. It's a very large sum
of money. I questioned, where's the money come from? Yes,
some of it could be coming from Lee's back pay,
and she might have more than that. That was the
amount made public, thirty five thousand, and here is a
mother without a job, and everybody knows I have no
money and my contributions are nine hundred and some odd dollars. Now,

(40:09):
when you say that money and Marinas come from your
son's back pay, what are you based on the speculation.
I'm basing all of this on speculation, Sir. If I
had proof, I would not be taking my energy and
my emotional capacity to bring all this out if I
had proof that he was an agent. When then they
asked you to contribute some money to help bring him
home from Russia, did it occur to you that if
he was an agent to government would just pay his way. Yes,

(40:31):
but they don't want the public to know he's an agent.
They want me to have all this. They don't want
the public to know. I'm going around to people. You
brought up a very good point. I'm going around trying
to get money for this boy to come home, so
the public knows. Sure they could have given him the
money to come home. Are you trying to get money now?
I don't understand what you mean by that. I think,

(40:52):
mister Rankin, you asked me the question that if he
was an agent, that the government would have given them
the money to come home without any trouble. I say
just the opposite that it's a very good point. If
he was an agent, it would make it hard for
him to come get the money to come home. Remember,
I'm under the impression he's coming home with this Russian
girl in order to continue his work. So he cannot
be given the money immediately to come home because his
mother might tell the story to someone Lee almost a

(41:15):
year coming home for a lack of money, so then
to have an excuse to loan him the money. There
you go, fucking can't believe I'm saying this like she's
nailing it on the fucking head, nailing it. She's absolutely
fucking right. The government would do the opposite of what
you would expect them to do if he was an agent.
They'd lend him the money. And it's funny because when

(41:35):
you look at the payments he made back to the government,
which he did make a bunch of payments. Dude, he
made some payments of like a couple hundred dollars at
a time. Where was he getting a couple hundred dollars
at a time if he's making like twenty bucks a week?
I mean, seriously, did you ever learn he was getting
any money from the Red Cross in addition to his
pay that is, the Russian or Soviet Red Cross when

(41:55):
he was over there. No, sir, you don't know what
he did with that. I don't know anything about that,
the Red Cross from here, the Soviet Red Cross. No, sir,
I know nothing about that. Okay, So here's a deal.
This is an interesting thing. So he had his salary
at the radio factory in Minsk, but on top of

(42:16):
that he had an additional stipend from the government, and
when combined that total income was more than the plant
manager at the radio factory he was making. It was
a ridiculous amount of money they were giving him. The
government was giving it to him, The Russian government was
giving it to lie Oswald. Interesting, right, You didn't know

(42:39):
he was supposed to have gotten an amount equal to
the pay he received from his job that he got
from the Red Cross. I don't follow you. I do
not know. I don't understand he got so much a
month from his job in the electronics factory. You understand
that right in Russia. Yes, he was not in an
electronics factory. I thought he was working in a radio factory,
all right, fine, And then he got an equal amount, understand,

(43:00):
from the Red Cross of the Soviet Union. Did you
know that? No, sir. Now explain to me when you
say the Red Cross of the Soviet Union, is that
our American Red Cross in the Soviet Union or is
this part of the Russian Red Cross. This is part
of the Russian Red Cross. I do not know that
it is not part of the American Red Cross. No,
I do not know that their Red Cross is somewhat

(43:21):
different than now zaire. And understand because the government has
so much to do with the activity there, as the
Red Cross is closely associated with the government itself, while
in this country, as you know, it is generally supported
by the public. No, I did not know that. Now.
One of the things pertaining to this, when Marina and
Lee return from Russia, and they were at my daughter
in law's home, Robert's home, and I and I came

(43:41):
home from a job in the country to see them.
I sat up until this time, gentlemen, I thought Russians
were peasant looking people like the public. And I said, Lee,
she doesn't look Russian at all. She looks American. He said,
of course, mother, That's why I married her, because she
looks American in front of my daughter in law, and
he bragged that she looked like an American girl. And

(44:03):
there's all these little things sort of like that. As
I say, I cannot remember everything in my life because
I'm going this is way back in a few hours time,
mister Rankin. But there's many, many things that can come up.
How does this show that he was an agent at
the time. I don't understand that. I don't either, but
I'm telling you the expressions. He's making a point and

(44:23):
when I was going to make a point. Lee loved
his work and loved the Marines. Lee loved the Marines,
mister Rankin, even coming back. He was a military man,
and that was also been stated in the paper that
he had a military manner about him. I think District
Attorney Wade remarks something of that order. People have noticed
that what made you think that he loved the Marines?
Was there something that he did when he came back. Yes,

(44:44):
he loved the Marines because his brother was a Marine,
for one thing, and John Edward did his career fourteen years.
My brother was in the navy. Hang on a second,
hang on dea, My brother was in the navy. You
don't have any fucking brothers, Marguerite Oswald has no brothers.

(45:08):
Two of them died decades before, at the age of
like eighteen or twenty. Yes, they were military, but they've
been dead since. Like the thirties. So what is she
talking about. She doesn't say my dead brother. She says,
my brother was in the navy. His father was a veteran.
Han isn't his father your fucking father? Oh my god,
this is the fucking this is the Lilian Morett shit

(45:30):
with her brother all over again. I swear to god,
these fucking people came up with this stuff just to
put me in the madhouse. All right, So I'm gonna
call it here, and I'm gonna let you ponder what
the fuck she's talking about. Her brother was in the
navy and his father was a veteran. Whatever. That doesn't

(45:50):
make any fucking sense at all. All right, Oh, We're
gonna call it here for today, and I will be
back next time where I will have some further analysis
of this brother talk, because this is exactly the point
that I'm at in my book that I'm writing, which
will be out next month on Oswald. So all right, everybody,
I will be back next time. Thanks for tuning in.

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Warren Commission Testimony of Marguerite Oswald Part 8

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