Ep. 10 - WOTC Unbanned Some Crazy Cards in Commander (Feat. Cimoooooooo) - CovertGoPodcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Do Do Do Do Do Do Dude, covid.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Podcast, Seemo Semo Hi, I see Mac, you're back. I've
locked you down in here, dragged you in. You've made
me do videos. I make you do videos. This is
our relationship that we have.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's our to farm each other for content until we're
dead in the ground, my friend.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Indeed, this is this is our life now.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
And I saw those Commander bands. I know some of
those cards. You should be happy, I'm learning. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
That was supposed to be a raw reaction piece of
content that we were gonna do. Look at you right now,
your following bands. Do you see me talking about the
latest yu gi oh bands? Because a simo thumbnail pops
up in my feed while talking about the ban update.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's kind of hard now that I'm in your guys'
circle that I just get magic stuff fed into me,
and when it's just literally a big white square that
says Commander bands and the five cards that got banned.
It's kind of hard to dodge that. I'm gonna be honest,
but yeah, yeah, Twitter, but thank god panoptic mirrors back.
I remember like just running that card into the ground
for how bad it is. So I can't wait for

(01:29):
people to break it. It's gonna be great.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, absolutely, I can't wait to use it against you,
show you how absolutely busted it.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
We'll just wait till I hate you with a big kactar. Anyway,
you had to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
We can't talk about the cactar. We can't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
We have to talk about what people want the cactar.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I am banning cactar discussion until you actually play it
against me.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Because it's a Yukio card. It has like ten thousand attack.
I have to play it.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Oh my god, the new final Fantasy attack for ten
thousand card. Yeah, you can't wait to see that. But
that's that's content for a different day. Today's content is
we aren't just gonna yap briefly about the cards that
were unbanned in Commander. But what you didn't apparently see
in your social traversus is that eighteen cards moved around

(02:23):
on the game changers list we have did.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Not see that I did not see.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, we have some unngame changers, and we have some
new game changers, and you'll get to tell me. You
get to tell me if a card is or isn't
a game changer, whether you're not taken off the list
or put on the list.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Remind me. A game changer is basically like your form
of a restricted list where you can only play three
of these cards in a deck in a tier or
bracket that allows game changers.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Kind of sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, ok, pretty much. So, yeah,
we should probably do a quick bracket review, so I
mean think that was a big part of the announcement. Yes, yeah,
so bracket bract Gets one and two are for a
much more casual play and don't include anything from the
game changers list. Those are pseudo banned in brackets one

(03:13):
and two for cash and play, and bracket three, which
is considered like probably normal commander to me at least,
the decks are built more around like an experience than
they are the strictest, most competitive things you can possibly
be doing. You're allowed three game changers in your deck because.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I remember we played our Commander episodes. I remember, like
you guys were talking about in the chat prior, like oh,
make your deck Bracket four, bracket three, whatever, and I'm like,
I don't know what any of that means, so whatever
figures out. Yeah, I know we're talking about these cards
while we were playing as well, and I'm like, okay,
we'll figure out what that means someday.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Indeed, yep, Bracket four has no restriction on your game
changers and are expected to be exciting powerful decks, and
bracket five is competitive, like you take every spot is
presumed to be optimized. So any number of game changers
c d H is as it's known.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I really like people said it.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
People said it, alrighty, So in Commander, let's let's hit
the bands, give some given is unbanned. Do you remember
this card?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah? This is like your equivalent of like painful Choice
right where it's like you dump some cards but then
your opponent gives you some but they don't actually get
a choice. Yeah, this card's crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah. I was always surprised that this was on the
band list, and uh you were right away like, oh yeah,
that should be on the band.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
List because of like the power in yu Gi Oh,
it's just like it's it's on a different level in
our game. I feel like, because it turns into like
either you win the game or you're basically gonna win
the game. And that's like there's there's again it's painful choice.
It's painful for a reason. So I I think it's
I don't does everyone think that this card's fine? What's
the what's the reception?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
There's some trepidation. There's a trepidation about it, like I'll
play it. Yeah, I think that they believe the bracket
system saves the card. Because interesting with the bracket system,
if it's in a bracket three deck and it's one
of your three game changers, you can't go get four
game changers with it like on its own, you.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Know what I mean, compared to where you could.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Right, Yeah, it limits a lot of the tutors and
the wind the combo win cons also in that bracket.
There are also other like bracket rules like no mass
land destruction, no two card win the game combos is
one of the restrictions, and no tutors. So again, like
these things, they are relying on the bracket system to

(05:43):
work it out and make the card fine. In CDH.
I think Gifts on Given is going to be really good.
Just like one in a blue, it's three in a blue,
so it is four mana.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well that doesn't matter because you get so much free
mana CD so who cares?

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, that's it. Speaking of Freemana, they did not unban
our favorites that we talked about in the last band announcement,
which was Manacrypt Dockside, and Jeweled Lotus. Those all stayed banned.
A lot. I thought they'd unbanned. Okay, it was a
bit of a controversial decision in a lot of ways
in this particular announcement.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I thought about I was thinking about because I think
I did see that as well in the announcement. I
was thinking about Jeweled Lotus, and I feel like an
interesting fix to that card if they make like a
newer version of it, which they probably will, I still
like am in that ship. I still think they're going
to do like Ruby Lotus, Sapphire Lotus, all that stuff.
But wow, I think another way is like if you
have Jeweled Lotus, but you can only use it for

(06:41):
commanders that have like a certain cost or above right,
because a lot of the like fear around it. Is that, Oh,
you get all this freemanda for your commander and you
could play cheap commander. It's like crazy, right, But if
you like limit it to being like the higher cost commanders,
I think that makes it good for the decks that
like really want it, but then like the lower cost
commanders can't use it.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
So so slightly less jeweled lotus would be zero mana
sec at three man of any color to your manppool
use this only to cast a commander spell that cause
with a CMC of six or more something like that.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Something like that. Yeah, I don't know what the exact
cost would be, but I feel like that's sort of
like in my understanding, it's like busted in the decks
that play super cheap commanders, and it's like helping the
decks that are higher cost. But the problem is because
it boasts or it buffs the lower commander so much
that it's like it doesn't matter that it's also helping
the higher cost commander. So I feel like that sort

(07:34):
of balances it. But that's my game design brain trying
to fix the problem. That's my with my limited understanding
of commander, that's what I would do.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I think that's actually a good solution, but I'm going
to keep hitting this list so they they unbanned. Do
you remember this card? Do you remember Sway the Stars?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I don't think you ever showed me this card, or
if you did, I just don't remember it.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
But this card reaction, this is now legal in Commander.
By the way, it's only a ten man of sorcery.
Only a ten man of sorcery, it says. Each player
shuffles his or her hand graveyard and permanence here she
owns it to his or her library, then draw seven cards.
Each player's life total becomes seven.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
So is this like this is kind of like time Twister,
but also like setting life to seven in I understanding,
I'm that right, and.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Board to zero, which is not something Time Twister did.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Oh time Twisters in effect the board? Okay, that's right
for ten mana though, ugh, I feel like this is fine.
To be honest, I don't know why this was ever
banned in the first place, but maybe you could enlighten
me if I'm just like way off on this.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
I mean, geez, like the reason was on the website,
but I'm pretty sure it was one of those where
you read it it's like the game everything leading up
to sway it stars didn't matter, it invalidated the game
something like that. All it ever read like to me
is I am on the rules committee and I hate
that one guy in my group that plays this in
every deck. That's what it read like to me.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Or like, you know, maybe make the game end faster,
because I've learned Commander players love playing their five hour
Commander games.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
So everybody loves playing Commander, but they don't love too
much Commander. It's kind of funny. So they unbanned Braids.
Do you remember Braids?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
This is like one of the first cards you showed me.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I think so. Braid's Cabal Minion at the beginning
of each player's upkeep that players sacrifices an artifact, creature,
or land. It's a two to two.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think I was like pretty iffy on this because
I think initially I thought this was fine, but then
when you explained like the degeneracy behind it, like I
sort of got it. But I also I think I
was if I recall, I was on the side of
like this should be fine, so it's back, So I
guess I was right all along.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right, Yeah, it's an item that dies to removal if
played like fairly off, maybe one man of rock. So
it's played on like turn three. I like to make
the joke that by then the tokens player at the
table is fifty permanents and the ramp player has twenty lands.
So everything's fine, right, But are they going to use
this now to keep Jeweled Lotus band? Like, we can't
have this on turn one, guys, be too much?

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well again, if you make it where you can only
cast like five costs or command like CMC or higher
than you know.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
I love, I love how you just want to a
rat of the cards.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, I don't know. I'm saying a rat of Jeweled
Lotus come up with like slight new jeweled Lotus. Yeah,
you have to make a new card because they have
to sell it.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right, be Jeweled Lotus, be.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Jeweled Lotus excellent, perfect problems that sounds like it or something.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, they unbanned Coalition Victory.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Oh I remember this card was so bad. This card
is so bad. I'm glad they unbanned. This is so
this is awful. If you lose to this, like you
deserve to lose to this.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I can't wait to try to beat you. With it.
Just oh my god, I think everybody agrees with you there.
And did you know that if this is on the
stack and you respond by killing the commander or blowing
up one of the basic lands like you they it
just does nothing like.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
That would make like from a Yu gi oh perspective,
that would make sense because like on resolution would have
to check if you control all of that, so I would.
I would actually, to me makes sense if you warded
a bit differently and you gioh just to like clarify that.
But yeah, that that to me makes sense, And that's
all the more reason this card is probably fine.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yep. And uh, you mentioned panoptic mirror, so I guess.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yes, this might be. I don't know. I thought this
card was fine too, to be honest, especially with how
much other crazy stuff there is in this game. I
don't know this card. I if I recall, I remember
thinking this is like whatever.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
So something interesting about this announcement. Gavin wrote a short
novel about every single card mentioned that we're going to
go over today.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
That's so nice that you had that, by the way,
because you Gio doesn't.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, as well as every card that maybe they even
considered like all that well, what abouts, all the what abouts.
It's amazing the amount of words written about this announcement.
It's I'm still ever seen, so I don't care.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's fine.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
So you're doing good. Doan optic mirror? Panoptic mirror unbanned
back in the format.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Thoughts on.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Uh So looping extra turns is one of the things
that's not allowed in bracket three or below, so they're
expecting this only to see play in high power and
CDH and in those environments it's it's too slow.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I feel like it's slow exactly. Yeah, so that's why
I think it's okay. Yeah, so it's fine, get brackets.
I feel differently, But.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I really think that's what's really interesting about this announcement.
They are leaning on the brackets very hard to solve
a lot of the problems around these cards, which is.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Uh and of course because because U GIOH has always
had a limited list in some regard, I actually think
if I recall duel links, which is our like, uh,
I don't know what to You don't really have like
a magic light or anything, so.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
We have magic duels on the Xbox.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I don't know. I don't think it's that, but basically
it's like if you play Pokemon Pocket, it's like what
they did to Pocket versus the actual POKEMONCG. But for
you gioh I'll but Yu Gyo did it like ten
years ago. So it's like you only get three of
each zone, you don't get a main phase two. There's
like a bunch of different things about it. And one
of the things you do differently is I think they

(13:10):
have a list similar to this where instead of having
like a restricted list of you can only play one
of each of these cards, it's like there's a pick
two or a pick three list where it's it's exactly
like this where you get to have a whole list
of cards, but you can only play three of these
cards or something like that. And so I don't know.
I don't play that game, so I don't know how
well it works for them, But it's interesting that they're
they're sort of taking some inspiration from that, it seems like,

(13:32):
and it.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Sounds a lot like the old versions of Magic Tools,
to be honest.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh does it? Oh okay?

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah, I mean that was my proving
grounds as magic Tools. But like some people have been
with me for a long time.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
No, but it all started somewhere and do what we can.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So, so we had eighteen cards to get through.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
From my understanding, we've got a bunch of cards. You
don't know the game changes list. I've shown you, I
d hand full of cards. I've just shown you a
few cards on it. So you don't I.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Think I know for six studies on it, but only
because you told me that.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. So what we're gonna do
today is we're going to go over the cards that
were added to or taken off the game changer list. Okay,
you are going to try to tell me if it
got added to the list or if it got that's
the game.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Okay, all right, that sounds at least it's a fifty
to fifty. That's good.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yep, it's a fifty to fifty. But as always, you're
going to try to use that big game or brain
to try it get it.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
You and I are competitive, we like we have to.
We have to. We have to keep keep each other sharp. Indeed,
even for the dumbest stakes, which is our pride and
the audience, like the audiation, humiliation. Yeah, Internet, Internet just
absolutely being made fun of on the Internet till the
end of time precisely.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, you guys in the comments matter, so remember to
needle Simo extra hard when he gets one wrong. Okay,
because it really does add the stakes.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
It does. It adds the pressure to make sure I'm right.
And if you're a yu GIA player watching this, you know,
defend me.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, oh no, no, pileon.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Actually they'll want to pile on. I take it back.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Are you ready for number one?

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I as as ever? Okay, well I know this because
you played this against us in one of our games
and you told me that this was a game changer.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
This is to fairies protection to in a white, which
is an instant that says until your next turn, your
life total can't change, and you gain protection from everything
all permanent. You control phase out, which, if you don't
know what that means, means while they're phased out, they're
treated as though they don't exist. They phase in before
you untap during your next turn, and you exile this card.
So based on the fact that you told me this

(15:51):
is on the game changer's list before, they had to
have taken this off. Final answer eat that.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Are you sure that I said it was a game
changer or it was a game changer.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
I'm pretty sure you, like told Voxy, your literal words
were this is a game changer. And I'm fairly certain
you meant in the sense of being on the game
changer's list, and not in any other context. So you see,
try give me my point. Next card.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
To Fairies Protection has just been added to the game changer.
What you're ship, There's no way.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's why you started with this. So you weren't being literal.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
I obviously not. I don't remember saying this, to be honest, I.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Someone find the clip put in the description the common
to find the clip.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Apparently it was in a practice game. Now that we've
scrubbed through the whole.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Well, and we couldn't. We could have we scralled, we
didn't scrub erry efficient or thoroughly. I will say, apparently
I was getting this confused with clever concealment. But that
is not a game changer, correct, That's right. So that
had been the practice game you to Fairs protection me.
I'm just conness at this point.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
So and and you and in your mind I said
this is a game change. I swear I.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Will boxy and to like to corroborate my way.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Here taking me right to court on the very first card,
I might add, I'm.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Doing it right now. I'm going back to our conversation.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You think we're you think we're competitive, Oh my god,
because I'm right. Nope, but you get thumbs down. You're
wrong in this case.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I'm wrong in the video, but I'm right that you
said it was a game.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Changer, in which case we're both wrong. Is that even
enough for you?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
No? Because I needed, I need to beat you.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
That's what I thought. Okay, anyway, let's let's continue, shall we.
How about this card that I've got.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm finishing, all right, I'm back.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
You literally are asking Boxy and Amy about okay, okay,
bringing me card. Oh my god, I'm gonna hold on.
I have to message Boxy and Amy and let them
know that you're trying to propaganda my good name on
the internet. Just read this in the meantime.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Why is it so tiny? Notion thief? This is too
a blue and a black for a human rogue. Three
to one has flash. If an opponent would draw a
card except the first one they draw in each of
their drawsteps, Instead that player skips that draw and you draw.
That sounds broken. Oh my god. Uh, we have a
card similar to this. Uh, not exactly like not this good,

(18:33):
but the car that comes to mind when I see
this is called droll and lockbird. So this is a
hand trap. I've never shown you this card before, but
it's when your opponent adds a card from deck to
hand except by drawing. I think it's except by drawing,
like for their draw phase. If I recall, I need
to like double check the wording you discard it from
hand to grave and for the rest of the turn,

(18:55):
neither player can add cards from their deck to their hand. Essentially,
so instead of like you get to draw, uh, they
it just like stops. It's just like it just full
stops for the turn, you're able to do that. So
that's like kind of what this reminded me of it
a way, But the fact that you get to draw
is crazy. That's so good. Uh. This reminds me of
what's that other card I thought was the most broken

(19:15):
madgic card ever? Whole Breacher? Was that what it was? Yeah, yeah,
it reminds me of Whole Breacher, but like less good,
but still like good. I could see this being a
game changer. I could see this being a game changer.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
So does that mean you're putting it on the list
not taking it off the list?

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh right, I forgot it's on or off?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Can you answer me this? Did they take more things on?
Or did they or did they take more things off?
Or do they put more things on?

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Oh? Man?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Or is it like?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Ah? Should I give you this answer? Okay, they took
more things. They put more things on the list than
they took off.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Okay, I could see them putting this on the list
if it wasn't already there. So I'm going to go
with that.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
And you would be correct. Thief has been added to
the Game Changers list.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, start this card seems very good.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's it's one of a couple of cards that they added.
Uh that mess with draws, which is kind of interesting
because like, yeah, oh, no problem with ristic study. Like
you you feel like you.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Have so gross Oh my god, I need to risk card.
This is great.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Now now you take their riskic studies and you have
YOURSIC studies. It's great. It is a study. It's a
may On riskic study. So they will just decline to
draw the decline. They might mess up the first time,
but they won't mess up anywhere. But yeah, if you
have your riskic study out and this there, it's a
it's a tough worlds hard like out there.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's very difficult then if you have to like pick
between like because ristic studies on there too, So it's like, okay,
you can have risk study notion thief. You'll get one
more game changer, right, and you have one hundred card decks.
So it's something you have to think about.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, they so also wheels, did we cast any wheels
in our game? Draw brand new hand kind of cards?

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I don't think so. I don't think so. But you
showed me before. You've showed me some before.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yep, yep, lots of uh. Is I believe card destruction
is the wheel in your game?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yes, that's our closest. Well, it's not even exactly, because
I think morphing Jar is actually a better example, because
morphing Jar you always draw five card destruction. You only
draw the same number of cards.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
You had, so bracket like two says and even three says.
No two card win the game combos, but something that's
not a win the game, like you could get around
it if you want to be that arguing pedantic nerd yay,
who would ever?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Who?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's not a win the game combo two card combo
to play a Notion Thief and then play a time twister,
but you do draw twenty eight cards and your opponents
discard all their hands.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Sure, so we co on the game. It's interesting because
we actually had a similar combo with Droll Lockbird. Funny enough,
there's another card I'll probably never show you. It's called
Trick Star Reincarnation. It's called that because it's part of
the Trick Star archetype. That card says your opponent banishes
all cards in their hand and then draws the same

(22:26):
number of cards and has another effect. But that's like irrelevant.
But the thing is, if you would as soon as
they would draw or like add a card to their
hand or whatever, because that would meet the condition for
Droll Lockbird, you could activate tricks Star Reincarnation. It was
a trap card. They would banish their whole hand, draw
a new hand, and then I'm sorry, you would activate
trick Star Reincarnation, and then as a second card on

(22:48):
the stacks chain link two in our game, you would
activate Droll and Lockbird because they added a card from
deck to hand. In that last interaction that they did,
so now droll Lockbird's in effect when the stack result
and the Church are reincarnation, they banished their whole hand
and they don't draw anything, so they lose their whole
hand essentially. And so a lot of people thought this
was like sort of like an FTK where it's like
if your opponent doesn't have a hand, they can't play

(23:10):
the game and you just win. But it was legal.
It was a legal combo because you needed to have
this like exact two card combination to do it, and
you went ways to stop it as well, So like,
I get it, I get it, very similar to you Gio,
very funny.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I'll also show you the other card that got
added to the game Changer's list for a similar effect,
which is Narseet part of a Veils, which also strikes a
chord with the combo that you're talking about. Or you
can give that one a read if you like.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, one and two blue for a five loyalty planes
walker with really cool art. Each opponent can't draw more
than one card each turn. It's funny because like in
U Gah, thould like not matter and then minus too.
Look at the top four cards to your library. You
may relate a non creature, non land from among them,
put into your hand, put the rest on the bottom
of your library in any order. That seems very strong.
That seems very strong. It's not like super flashy, but

(23:56):
just seems like a very like just high, especially in
your game because you can draw so much. That seems
like way more devastating than like uyo comparatively on arena.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
This is also a combo and Pioneer and brawl with
a card called Memory that does the time twister type
thing for a really expensive cost, so that win con
combo is like still available on arena. Sure people try
to pull off from time to time. It's not fun.
It's not fun at all. All right, why don't we
give you next? Let's uh, how about this? How about

(24:27):
this card right here?

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Noticing a trend with a lot of blue cards here? Uh,
this is intuition, I believe yep, it's two of blue.
It's very tiny. That's why I have difficulty seeing Seargier
library or sorry, it's an instant for tune of blue.
Searchier library for any three cards and reveal them to
target opponent here or she chooses one. Put that card
into your hand and the rest in your graveyard shuffle

(24:51):
the library afterwards. This is interesting. Yugo has a lot
of these effects. They're typically locked to a particular archetype.
So for instance, say reveal three monarch cards or whatever
like x archetype insert here. Your opponent chooses. Sometimes they
get to pick, but other times it's random, so they
don't They don't get to pick like they get they

(25:12):
they're picking, but it's whenever they pick is random. You
put them based down and just shuffle in your head.
So these effects are actually quite common in you Gia,
not for every deck, but I would say there's quite
a few of them that do exist. So usually when
these types of effects are in the game, you're giving
your opponent like not a great choice no matter what.

(25:32):
It's different in Commander because you only have one of
it's where like in you Gia you can pick three
of the same card because we have three copies of
card maximum and it's like, oh yeah, pick your random card, right,
So that actually did work.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
When intuition was in standard. It was pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, And that's like, no, it doesn't always happen
because if you need a certain card, but maybe you
drew one copy of it, then it's like, oh, I
can't do it right, So I think this is fine Personally,
I like it's similar to Gifts un Given, but the
difference is your opponents. Uh it's only one card versus two,

(26:12):
so they're not getting like the full combo. And you said,
you said they just unbanned Gifts Ungiven. Yeah, so they
unbanned Gifts Ungiven and leave this card. I think this
card's fine. If they Gifts on Given seems better to me.
So if they unbanned it and they think that card's okay,
then I think Intuition. Uh Intuition was maybe on the

(26:33):
list and they're taking it off.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Ah into Intuition, Uh, beautiful card. Believe it or not,
this was not a game changer and got moved.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Really Given is fine at the same.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Time that they unbanned Gifts Ungiven And I'm ready for
my comment, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it was always
kind of weird that Gifts was banned and Intuition was
legal anyway, like even before the brackets and the game
changer list. This is where I'm going to get roasted
by comments a little. So I should you know that

(27:13):
all five of the cards that were unbanned were immediately
moved to the game changer list.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Oh okay, so just put them on the game changer list,
got it?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yes, So I think that explains why they felt they
should move Intuition to the list. It's kind of weird
that it wasn't that, like, Intuition wasn't even a game changer,
while Gifts on Given was bad was banned. And they
have a very similar effect in at least in competitive EDH,
Like it's a one card combo, Intuition kind of does
what Gifts does. It assembles a combo, like whatever they

(27:50):
choose gives them access to the rest of the combo
either way. In CDH, it's a card called Savine's Reclamation
and then Underworld Breach and Brain Free relionsie Diamond right
and away you go. You do the thing.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, sure, a bunch of cards, I know.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah yeah, cards that bring things back from the graveyard
so that no matter what. Like so Savine's Reclamation has flashback,
so you can cast it from your graveyard. So whether
they put it in your hand or your graveyard, it
gives you the Underworld breach, and then the Underworld Breach
just com goes off. So, yeah, Intuition has been moved
now to the Game Changer list, where it probably should

(28:24):
have been the whole time. This is an old card.
There's a really expensive card. I mean it looks oh
so how about I want to find out. I want
to find out.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
While you Yeah, while you find out a bit of
an aside. So this is basically like painful Choice, and
you know, the difference is you pick five cards instead
of three, which is why it's way more broken in
our game, well for multiple other reasons. But the fact
that you dubbed FOURD a grave instead of two is
a big deal. So like, in my mind, I wanted
to like liken it to painful Choice. But if you said,
like in my mind, I guess I didn't think about

(28:52):
the fact that they could have unbanned Gifts un Given
and put it on the Game Changer's list, So that
would have like skewed my perception a bit. So if
Gifts on Given, if I knew was on the Game
Changer list, I probably would have said Intuition was as well.
So that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeap, kind of my bad there, But no, I thought
you're bad.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
It's like I didn't ask to like, it didn't even
occur to me that that would happen. So so intuition
here one hundred and fifty Buckso this re starveless card, right.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
A good card. Yeah, it's a good card. Yeah, alright e.
Next up, let's let's let's shake it up. Let's find
a green card.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
I was gonna say, we've seen a bunch of blue
so far or h shards. This is what a green
and a white for an enchantment. Whenever a creature enters
the battlefield under your control, you may destroy target artifact
or enchantment. O. People don't like when you mess with
their stuff. Like I think this card is fine. So

(29:49):
it's like, how this to me seems like a card
that someone on the committee was sick of losing too,
so they put it on there, or it's been on
there because of that exact reason. Because you've showed me
some things that have been and for no reason that
could come off. So I will go with it was
on the list. Oh no, this is the game changers,
So this.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Isn't banned.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Game changers. This is a lot harder versus like band period.
I feel like this card, like, I mean, I could
I get it especially because you could summon like a
billion guys in your game and just like pop every
artifact and enchantment and play was it oppressive enough? Like

(30:35):
people like don't getting their soul rings popped?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, from your impression of the format, how important are
people's artifacts and enchantments?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, the artifacts especially because they're all the Man of
Rocks right, and so like the Man of Rocks are
like pseudo lands in a lot of ways. So like
you could liken this to land destruction in a sense,
but like stop being a baby. That's like, ah, like
that's just like how it goes, Like if they have it,
like just like deal with it, like, oh my gosh. No. Uh,

(31:12):
I'm gonna say this is one of the ones where
goes against like how I feel. I'm gonna say they
put this on the Game Changer list because people were
a bunch of babies because they kept getting their Man
of Rocks blown up by this. Uh, even though I
feel like this card's totally fine, but like I can't
imagine this card was already on Like all the cards
you've shown me are like most of them, I get it.
This is the first one where I'm like, why are

(31:32):
we even talking about this card. So to me, there's like,
in my mind, I can't imagine this was already on
the list, Like, I can't imagine if I'm picking the
game Changers from my deck, then I'm gonna pick fucking
Aura Shards. I'm sorry, that's just like, well, first of all,
I probably never played Green White, but.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Uh, smart guy.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I think I think they put it on the list
for whatever reason. So sure.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
For context, the Game Changer list came out last September.
They have now had a Magic Con Magic Con Chicago
to like analyze it. Right, So these things that they've had,
they've now seen them in play in the different brackets,
so that probably has to do with how they're like

(32:19):
adjusting the list here and there. And they also got
a ton of feedback of what should and shouldn't be
on the list, right. So anyway, our Shards the typical
Aura Shard experience, as I like to present it. I
got my when my wife got into Commander, she built
her cat deck and I got her an Aura Shards.

(32:41):
I got her a nice foil Oor Shards. It was
one of the first cards that she ever saw. I
was like, oh, I really want that.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Okay, she is nice of you.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
She is a very evil agro player who does not
really care about your feelings very much, just will beat
you straight into the ground when she gets the chance.
So she enjoyed Orishards a lot like she plays here's
my Orishards. Now I make a cat and I kill that.
And I make a cat and kill that and giggles
with glee and then attacks you. The typical commander player

(33:13):
experience is, oh, I have Oris Shards, Okay, I'm going
to play my well, we'll keep it consistent. I'm gonna
play an elf right. Oh I cat Orishard's trigger. Oh
I don't really want to blow up your artifact that
makes you manna and make you mad at me? But

(33:34):
I have this trigger. Are you gonna like feel bad?
Are you gonna be mad at me if I do?
I don't want to do it. I'm not gonna do it.
I'm gonna I don't know if I should do it.
That and then every single creature entering the battlefield, we
do this again? Should we do this again? And we
do this again? And I.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Don't have this. You don't have to resolve it. It's
a you may effect.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I have seen somebody's decision paralysis, fatigue of being like
the bad at the table, like they don't want to
be the villain. I've seen them blow up their own as.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
That's I am unbelievable. You're playing the card committs commit.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I can't handle that. That makes me as a player
at the table. I'm like, that makes me God too.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
God.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
We all my soul ring Jesus and we're preaching to
the choir. But yeah, I plant in the comments if
we're wrong. ODS is now a game changer. He got
moved onto the list, and I feel the same way
you do.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Okay, good, I'm glad.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
This is nonsense to me.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
This is there are cars and you gio that have
like a similar effect to this, where like when you
do X destroy a card and it's like not once
per turn, so you can do that multiple times and
the cars are fine, Like they're totally fine. I mean,
our game is very different obviously, as you know. But
it's like, yeah, I can't even conceived with this. I'm
shocked that they put it there. But I also I

(34:58):
think I'm starting just more under stand the collective feeling
and sentiment around Commander through your videos of course, So
this I think I was right on the money with
this one.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I agree. Now, how do people feel about this? Oh
my god, I can't even read this. Dude, hearing that
from a U he oh player is rich.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Rich fucking font is the same color as the background.
Give me a break?

Speaker 1 (35:27):
What and like reading your cards is often worse than that,
it's so much worse. I don't need to zoom in
on this read this card.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
In defense, this card has about as much text as
a Yu gi oh card, even though half of its
flavor text. Anyway, we can fight about this all day
Mistra's workshop, now that I zoomed it in four hundred percent. Uh,
this is a land taped ad three colorless mans your manipool.
This manda may only be used to cast artifacts. Ooh ooh,
ooh ooh. You've told me about how crazy artifacts have

(35:58):
been like historically and or formats. How are they in commander?
I mean commanders any good? They're pretty good? And yeah,
all those matrocs, all those manner rocks.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Aside from what's banned, they're as good as artifacts are
as good as they can be.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
It's weird, though, because unless you're playing like a more
artifact focused deck, like like I don't you can correct
me if I'm wrong here, Like, I don't feel like
every deck wants to play this even though it's basically
a black Lotus every turn, because if you don't have
the artifacts to cast with it, then what's the point,
right I think?

Speaker 1 (36:35):
I think I've built approximately one hundred Commander decks in
the last two years. Okay, I have one of these cards.
I've only put it in one.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Deck, right, because again, you don't get the value out
of it if you don't have the artifacts to cast
with it. So you'd have to build like a very
artifact dense deck for you to like even get the
value out of it, which is kind of interesting because
it's like sort of balanced in that regard depending on
like what for like, because obviously when you show me
the artifact deck from what was it mirrored in or whatever,

(37:06):
like this card would be like this car would be
like that shit crazy in that deck. But in Commander,
I mean, grant you could build artifact I'd imagine you
could build artifact decks. But the problem is it's like, then, hmm,
this is interesting. I don't feel like I feel like

(37:28):
this may have been a card that was on the list
and they took it off because I obviously my scope
of Commander is very little, right, I have very little
experience with this format. But I don't feel like from
my time playing it that I've seen like so many
decks that are like more than fifty percent of the

(37:49):
deck is like artifacts or something that you'd want to
play something like this. So like maybe they threw this
on the Game Changer list as like a precaution initially,
and now that they realize that, like who cares, Because like,
if you're gonna play an artifact deck, you get to
play this, Like I think that's an incentive for deck building,
even though it's like a huge surge of power that
like you just constantly get. But maybe it's like a
bad thing because you're playing a deck that has like

(38:10):
four billion artifacts in Commander. I don't know. I'm gonna
go with my gut on this one. I think it
was on the Game Changer list as like a precaution,
and now that they've seen like the way things are
playing out there, like we could take it off.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
It's fine, and your gut in this case would be incorrect. Yes,
Mistress Workshop just got added to the Game Changer's list.
And because of the millions of words written in these articles,
we actually have a quick explanation as.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
To why I'm interested. I'm interested, yep.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
It says a land that taps for three mana, where
artifacts definitely meet some of the restrictions we put around
fast mana, and belongs on the Game Changer's list, so
this could help set you up for the future. Apparently
they just think that three mana for nothing. The cost
of your land drop is fast enough. Also, artifacts are

(39:04):
insanely broken, and in Commander, you can definitely make a
whole deck of artifacts that can pop off incredibly fast
with this car. Okay, I agree on this one. I'm
surprised this wasn't on the list to begin with. It's
it has a very low play rate, and I think
that's the reason why. But that's the only way you
can justify it. Because the card is super expensive and

(39:26):
super niche doesn't mean it's okay because when somebody does
play it in bracket too, it just runs away with
a game so easily.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I suppose, and maybe that's just my inexperience with the format,
but I don't know. I feel like having a deck
building extentive to be able to play This is very
much ayu gio thing where different archetypes have different pros
and cons, and you're typically, like, you know, either playing
a modo archetype deck or you're e merging a couple
archetypes together because they synergize, and like you're trading pros
and CODs, just like you do with a color wheel
and magic. Right, Sometimes you play you know, certain color

(39:57):
commodations for one reason or another, and I feel like
having cards like this for the payoff of playing like
a certain way are good. But I mean again, maybe
this car is just too good. So I sure, I guess,
but I don't know if I.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Agree it's good analysis. I would say it applies much
more to every other type than artifacts effects because so
many of them are yes, absolutely, and there's plenty of
artifact creature commanders too, So like this is like jeweled
lotus in those decks, right, Like that's that's the little

(40:33):
nuts they've got to like, they've got to justify why
artifact creature commanders get a jeweled lotus but nobody else
gets a jewel lotus, you know what I mean, That's
that's kind of hard to do.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Jewel loases band just saying.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
It sure is it's bad. It's apparently never coming back here, babies. Honestly,
they wrote about it and they said Jewel Lotus was
the most likely of those cards to come back of
the ones that were banned before. I still like my
balanced version of it for what it's worth, But me too,
Watzi Wat's Jewel Lotus coming in the next Secret Layer

(41:09):
sometime soon. What do we got deflecting swat This is
a tune or red for an instant. If you control
a commander, you may cast a spell about paying its
manecost we like free. You may choose new targets for
target spell or ability. You may choose new targets for
target spell or ability. Question on this If you play

(41:34):
something that says like draw two cards, can you like
deflecting swatt it so that you're the one drawing two cards?

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Fun? Fun to answer this one. It depends on the templating.
So if you cast the spell Divination, which is three
man and all the text is is draw two cards,
you cannot deflecting swat it because it does not target. However,
if you cast the spell Ancestral Recall, which says target
player draws three cards and you target yourself. The opponent

(42:03):
could deflecting SWAT ancestral recall. Note that ancestor recall, regardless
of the latest updates, is still banned in command.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Sure, sure, yeah, Now, I was just curious, like how
that works for cards that the templandy makes sense. You
give similar with some things, and I was curious how
that works for things that like so it has to
say target for the most part is what you're saying. Yep, okay,
which a lot of things target so like to Fairies

(42:32):
protection here does not. You couldn't do anything with deflecting
SWAT to Fairies protection, but you could change the target
of Anora shards trigger for example.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Is you you don't have a card.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like this to redirect targeting effects. We do. Actually, I'll
show it to you because you actually know what this
card type is. Give me one second here, I don't
know if I don't think I'll ever show you this
card in another video. So it's fine. We have this
guy here, it is. Why don't you give it a read. Actually,
we're turning this into my video now.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
As we tend to do lately in these episodes, which
is fun.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
It's fun a watch time.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Baby. I'm not complaining Karen Gorgan until louminescent night. Yep,
and I'm okay, I'm starting to mind a little more.
It's a dark Oh god, it doesn't have levels. It
has it has it has ranks? Yes, okay, god, this

(43:34):
is the XXS thingy. The attack is twenty four p fifty,
the defense is nineteen fifty. It's a rock. This is
a rock that's special during either player's turn when another
card or effect is activated that targets exactly one card
on the field and no other card, so you can
detach one XS material from this then target another card

(43:55):
on the field that would be an appropriate target for
the card effect. That card effect now targets a new target. Yep.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, so it's pretty similar. It's pretty similar. Might be
worried a bit differently, but for the most it's also
cool because it doesn't have a once perturn clause on it,
so hypothetically, if your opponent has like two targeting effects,
you can like stop both in the same turn, or
a lot of cards like you don't use their effect
ones per turn.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
It is face up on the field, though they know
how many times they can use it. Deflect the squad
can kind of hide in the hand for the perfument it.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Can, but Karen Gorgan did actually see a lot of
play because of the target redirection, because even though it
doesn't have like that instant speed response, it still is
like a deterrent, right, And that's like in some cases
good enough. But this card never got like banned or anything.
It was just like a good card that some decks
would play. And I kind of look at deflecting Swat
like this, this is so tricky because I like, yes,

(44:44):
you can do it for free if you have the commander, sure,
but like this effect isn't that part, Like it can
be powerful, but it's like not, I don't think it's
like I can't see this as being game changingly powerful.
Like maybe like there's like maybe some cards that come
to buy in that like target, especially if they're higher

(45:05):
costs than like maybe maybe then, but like even then,
like we're getting like into narrow of narrow because it
already has to target. So I don't know. I feel
like maybe they had this on the game changer list
and they took it off for some reason or another.
Like I'm not saying this card is bad by any means.
I think it's a good card, But I can't see
this being like a Hey, it is a game changer,
because it's like if it's like a late game push. Oh,

(45:29):
this is so tough. I want to say it was
on and they took it off.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
This does not seem like game changer material to me
compared to everything else you've showed me.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, this is this is the card that sent me
on a bit of a rant. Oh no, no, no,
Deflecting Swat was just added to the game change.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I knew you were going to say that. I knew
you were gonna say.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
That, but I'm not happy about it. I'm not happy
about it because I also I don't see it. But hey,
I get to do the thing, and I'm gonna do
the thing. Something you may have missed, yep, you will,
is that, at least in terms of justifying why this
got added to the list, Deflecting Swat acts like a

(46:21):
free counterspell against other counterspells because you can change the
target of a counterspell on the stack to itself.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Right, So if it's counter target spell, you can just
change it to like it counters itself, so that it
basically blanks it. Okay, that seems fine, like I don't care,
me too.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
I agree, I agree. I can't believe this. So this
and what tilts me the most is this might be
the I told you about. All the words written about
all these cards. Most of the time, I'm not even
reading them all because they are too many words. There's
multiple sentences written. That's just like, yes, this Deflecting Swat

(47:04):
getting added to the list, gets this sentence, I will
or I guess two sentences. Technically I will read it
verbatim because it's that short strong free counter magic made
the list previously, and this often does the job of
free counter magic and more, it deserves a spot on
the list. That's it, okay, that's it okay, and so

(47:29):
on the list force of will, free counter spell, fierce Guardianship,
free counterspell. There's like, this is my problem. There's like
a dozen more free counter spells sure that aren't on
the list. And there's nothing in the bracket system, you know.
They say no looping extra turns, they say no two
card combos, they say no mass line destruction. There's nothing

(47:52):
about free counter spells, nothing about that. And I have
I have played Deflecting Swat in a ton of decks.
I have deflecting to watted some amazing cards. I'm deflecting
swatted something called Casualties of War, which destroys like five
target permanents. It was awesome. That's a six card. It
was awesome. But you know what, I don't even think

(48:14):
I won that game. I'm not sure it didn't win
me the game on the spot. That's for damn sure.
That's funny this card. I don't think being free countermagic
is enough.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
It's not even always free, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah, I think they wanted red representation on the list.
That's what I think. That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way right, Maybe
we have the cohort of Blue. We're infesting the committee
with with pro Blue propaganda that we're getting deflecting SWAT
on the list. So it's one less thing we have
to worry about for us Blue players. Huh huh.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
I know some of the players on the committee because
they now publish who's on it. There's blue, there's some
Blue gamers there.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Okay, I'm just saying, like reasons, okay, all right, all right,
I'm coming to new perspective mode.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
That's it. I'm coming around. This is a great move.
I love everything about this. I don't want to worry
about free counter magic from a red deck. I want
to rule the stack as the bluemgs exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
That's it's also not even a counter spell all the time.
It has to be something that targets like this. It's
not a counter spell.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. Oh my god, I am
blown away. That got added to the list. I I
will die on That also went off on stream. I
was are we doing? God? Anyway? What is this card
right here? A new game changer or a former game changer?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Oh? Boy, I know this card consecrating four and tube.
I wish I got to play this against you guys.
I really did. It has flying, It's a four to
six whenever to put it draws a card, you may
draw two cards. Uh this. I would be shocked if
this wasn't on the first Game Changer list. But I
can't see them taking it off. I feel like they

(50:15):
put this on there that like it. Just I can't
see them not being on the list because this card
is like so incredibly good, even though it like it's expensive.
I feel like when this card hits the feel it's
just like everyone just groans in agony. I'm gonna go
it wasn't and they put it on because they forgot
the first time they made the list.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
You're getting it, you got it. Yeah, I'm sure you've
got it all right.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Well that the pro Blue propagandas aren't doing a good
job because this card should still be well, it's technically
so legal. It's just on the Game Changers list, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
It's right there. You have to choose three between ristic study, this,
Cyclonic rift, free, a bunch of free counter spells. Dude,
they have so many Blue cards on the list, Intuition
gifts like given. Yeah, this says something. Ah man, it
says that blue Mage's design magic the gathering, and God
bless him. I appre God bless him.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
I agree, mm hmm. Imagine liking interaction. You know weird?
Uh Trinisphere, I don't think I've seen this before. Three
mana for an artifact. Uh so it's free with the
other card as long as this is untapped. Each spell
that would cost less than three manut to cast cost
three mana to cast additional men in. The cost may
be paid with any color of mena or colorless man

(51:29):
For example, a spell that would cost one in a
black to cast costs two in a black to cast instead.
So basically it's always adding just colorless manna to the cost.
If it's if it has colored mena in it up
to three yep, right, right, So if it's if it's
a if it's just one black, it would go up
to two in a black hypothetically yep. Okay, just wanting

(51:50):
to make sure I understand that it says it in
the example, but I'm just making sure. Hmm. This card
seems annoying. Everything that's less than three costs three that

(52:10):
completely recks all of like the cheap artifacts, which is like,
h very anti fun. It's kind of like the Ori
shards argument. I feel like like you can still play them,
but the fact they go from like two to three
or one to three is annoying. Hmm. What a weird card.

(52:37):
I feel like there's this big like discourse recently and
you gee about like floodgates your equivalent to like stacks
cards and stuff, and like this is one of them.
It doesn't like completely shut out your ability to play
those cards, but it makes them like really expensive to
the point where you probably don't even want to. I

(52:57):
can see this from the perspective of if they're trying
to not if they're trying to promote like positive fun interactions, right,
I could see this being a card that wasn't on
the list, and they put it on the list, not
necessarily because like a bunch of decks play it, but
because it is like a negative gameplay experience for a
lot of people. So I'm gonna say it wasn't and

(53:19):
they put it on.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
All right, final answer on that one, final answer, Yeah,
so Trinisphere was a game changer and has moved from
the list, which is kind of surprising. It was definitely
an outlier in that there are a lot of cards
that make games less fun that were not game changers,

(53:42):
so it was kind of strange to see it there.
And we can read the reasoning on this one. The
card is not This is how it literally is worded
on the Wizard site. This card is not the most
fun to play against, no denying that. However, it tends
to be the strongest at the highest power levels like
Optimize bracket four and cdch bracket five. There are many

(54:03):
cards of the level of unfund sacks pieces like sphere
of resistance for a law another void that aren't on
the list. And generally, if your deck is trying to
lock other players out in a sack style, that's a
play pattern that doesn't match the intent of bracket two,
and you should bracket up.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
So they're basically saying, if you don't want to play
with this card, pick a different bracket. Yeah, okay, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
It's I think it's interesting because they it's true what
they said, and they leaned in a few different directions
with the list already of they were like, okay, we're
gonna we're not going to put all the stacks pieces
that make things cost more on the list for some reason,
just this one. So remember when we talked about the

(54:53):
original Commander ban list and we said it's like a signpost. Right,
they will ban one card and they will try to
use that card as like a don't go here, kind
of like gives on given but leaving intuition legal. Right.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
It's interesting because like in Yu gi Oh, the floodgates
have have started making their way, like the basically the
Trinis spheres of our format, if you will, but much
more egregious, have slowly been and they're also older cards,
which is like part of the problem. They've slowly been
making their way to either band or restricted to a
singular copy, which kind of just pseudo bans them because
like people wouldn't want to play a singular copy of

(55:28):
that card. So it's it's weird that like they have
like similar philosophies where they're trying to like get rid
of like the unfund stuff, but then they're like, oh, yeah,
here have Trina Spear.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah yeah. I think that that's I think this whole
approach of ban one stax piece so everybody knows Stax
pieces shouldn't be in these brackets, I think that's a
holdover of the old system. I think that's some people
who use the kind of sign post make an example
in the town Square of card x y Z yeah
approach that the former band list had, and I think

(56:01):
that they're trying to move away from that, which I
think is very smart, because it's silly to like target,
say this one card's out of bounds, and all these
cards that do the same thing, well, you're just supposed
to know those are out of bounds because we banned
this one. That that's how people work.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
No exactly, like the other one right exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yep, So less of make an example of this and
more of a well, if we're not going to bracket, like,
if we're just going to use brackets, lean on the
bracket system, Like people don't play these unfun cards in
casual because they don't line up with the goals, even
if they aren't specifically banned in that bracket.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
You know, just weird about the bracket system. Yeah, it's interesting.
It'll be interesting to see, like a few years down
the road, how this is playing out.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
I think so too. Apparently the reason so I mean
a little aside again, let's we can check in on that.
Because I'm neck deep in this discord. I put I
put Commander games on the internet every single week. I
have for years. When Wizards of the Coast comes out
with a new thing, a new format, a new band list,

(57:08):
a new app for anything. Whenever our billion dollar company
makes a new thing for players, there's always a part
of a player base that's meming and laughing and lolling
at the various parts of it. And then they came
out with brackets, and I I still am we're doing
it right here today. I kind of laugh at this

(57:29):
at times, because there are things about this that are
stilly darbone treads yep, yep. Either are the things about
it that don't make sense. And I find laughing at
them and having kind of some pokes at them is
just good natured fun on the internet.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
To me, of course, that's our job.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
So when I make Commander video and I say my
deck is a bracket too because it has no game
changes or a bracket one with no game changers or
something like that, the like, to me, this is funny.
But the comments go crazy, like the siveness of that
some people online have for the bracket system. They care

(58:05):
so much about, like the intent of the bracket system
and what the bracket system is trying to do, which
you know, fair games, right, that's the goal, have fair
games of Commander. I know that there was a need
for fairness in a lot of people. I didn't know
it was this strong for the bracket system. Because people
try to light me up. He doesn't understand the bracket system.

(58:27):
What he's doing is a bad representation of the bracket system.
It's a joke. What he still doesn't get brackets. They
just shouldn't talk about brackets if they're just going to
make fun of brackets. They The defensiveness of people for
the bracket system is like nothing I've ever seen for
something that Wizards of the Coast has released for anything.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
I think it shows how much people care, though, and
I think that from my unders again my very little understanding,
it did seem like there was this issue where when
people wanted to play Commander with other people, it's hard
to assess like how the power levels of your decks
all stack up against each other. And you could make
the argument that like that doesn't matter, right if I
go to someone and be like, hey, I want to
play you gioh. And if I'm playing my full power

(59:08):
to Turlament deck and someone else is playing fucking like
blue Eyes structure deck, right then like that's that's like
we don't have this like dialogue prior to oh, what's
the power level of your deck? Right? Like we don't.
We don't really have that conversation. So I mean, I
think it's just it shows how passionate people are about
both magic but also just being able to play the

(59:28):
magic that they like to play. And in defense of Wizards,
as an outsider, of course, I will say it's very
interesting this approach that they're taking to it. I mean,
obviously commander is the most popular format, and I think
they want to make sure that people can all have
a good time playing the way that they want to play.
So I think they're trying to address that and make
it more formalized. And again, we can all just poke

(59:49):
and laugh at it at times, but I think that
shows that like they care, right, So I think that's yes,
for better or for worse. I think that's like a
positive step in the right direction, even if you need to,
you know, course correct later down the road. But well, again,
i'm the outsider here. You know, I haven't played this
game for twenty years, so uh now you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Know it's a good no, it's a good perspective. And
to those of you in the comments, I will continue
to make jokes because that's who I am. Hopefully you
watched me enough to know I don't stop joking around
about anything. But if you love the bracket system and
like you want to be outspoken about it's misused or
whatever you want to do, that's you're right. As a fan,

(01:00:28):
I get it. I'm just I'm probably still gonna do this.
I don't think I know another way with a microphone
in front of me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I don't it's an interesting topic because and we're going
off on a bit of a tangent here, but sure
you Gioh has this. This is kind of coping the
discourse lately where yu Gioh has a similar problem where
because we are in eternal format, our biggest issue is
that most of the time, like cards have to be
like broken or like they're terrible, right because you need

(01:00:55):
the power level of each individual card to be so
good in order for it to be like viable to play.
And so people have been having this discussion lately of
it sucks that there are so many potential decks that
are like fun and cool and interesting and interactive, but
they are just completely gate kept and unplayable by the
fact that like the top meta decks in our format,

(01:01:16):
because we only have one format, the top meta decks
just just have a stranglehold over like what is allowed
to be played. And so a similar discussion comes up
of like what if there was a way to like
tier decks in a sense so that like people can
play their like rogueish like you know, like their bracket
two or bracket three decks. Where everything in Yugioh has

(01:01:37):
to be a fucking five, otherwise it's like unplayable. So
because there is a lot of really it sucks looking
at a set when a new set comes out and
it's like, oh, these cards are interesting, but they just
lose to the best three decks in the format because
they're like not good enough, and that just gets like
frustrating every single time the set comes out. That that
happens more often than not unless the cards read on

(01:01:57):
the surface, like when we first read like tier elements, right,
I keep going back to that, Like when we first
saw this, we knew this was going to be like
the best deck like until they hit it in some capacity.
And so it's it's an interesting discussion to have. For sure,
your company actually like does something about it comparatively.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
But they're trying for commander, Yeah, yeah, actually, you know,
at least they're trying. You know, I'll make jokes, but hey,
I know they love the game, so we roll with
it and do our best.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
All right, next card, we're still looking at cards here,
Field of the Debt. Use this against me, and I
was very mad about this. This enters the battlefield tapped.
Oh wait, no, this is not the card I'm thinking of.
I'm thinking of Field of Ruin Ruin. Yeah, okay, it
was a different field and sorry, this art is really sick.

(01:02:45):
For the record, feel the debt enters tapped, it taps
for a colorless and then when field the Debt or
another land enters the bathfleot under your control. If you
control seven or more lands with different names, create a
two two black zombie creature token. That's a really cool card.
I like that a lot out the art office too.
God if I if I start buying magic cards also
get like this version of this. This is sick.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
This is a game changer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
It's either a game changer form seven.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Or more lands with different names. I feel like that's
such a threshold you have to get to for this
card to like start being good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Different names you can play, you can ramp. Artifacts don't
count for this, So like maybe you could get this
into play like turn four, turn five, maybe turn three
if you have like a crazy rampand but even then
it's like something a two to two zombie every time
you get a land into play like that broken. I

(01:03:57):
don't know, this seems like a fine card to me,
Like it seems good, don't get me wrong. So former
game Changer they take this one off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Final answer, Yeah, I wish you were right. This has
been added to the Game Changer lists.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
You agree with that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
No, okay, this was the other one. This was my
deflecting old tramega rant. Oh I think I think the
rant went bigger and harder. I just what you said,
like a busted hand. Maybe you start making zombies on
turn three and with decond high roll like that's that's
yeah whatever, And with combinations there are ways to make

(01:04:42):
five or six zombies a turn if you have Crucible
of Worlds and fetch Lands and Zuza some three card combo,
and you might make six to ten power a turn
of zombies.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I don't get it, dude. I'm like, so, so the
usual if you have this in a green Lands deck,
the normal experience will probably be somewhere between turn four
and turn seven. You start making yep, you start making
two to two zombies, and you might make two or
three a turn using landfall strategies. I don't like. I

(01:05:18):
don't know about you, but usually in my Magic the
Gathering games of Commander, the game in turn seven and
eight is in like the end time like endgame. Yes,
the opponent's going to play something that pumps their army
of little dorks into mega minions and win, And that
is like another card added to the field combo. If

(01:05:39):
you're using Field of the Dead to make your dorks,
there's a lot of ways to make dorks. There's a
lot of ways to get to little monsters that then
get pumped up and kill the opponent with Creator of
Behemoth or whatnot. Or there's one hundred combos, there's storm turns,
there's whatever all that shit was that you did with
tevil and omniscience, Like like, that's the stuff people are doing,

(01:06:00):
and we're game changing Field of the Dead. Make some tootoos.
I just there is read it. It takes so little
for a land to be strong sounds like an intro
to a documentary. It took show little for a lund

(01:06:22):
to be strong, though it only makes colorless manna and
enters tapped. Getting Field of the Dead online is incredibly easy.
Once you do that, with fetch lands, additional land drops,
and more, this land can turn out three or more
zombie tokens a turn, which doesn't sound too wild until
you consider that, once again, it's a land. Those zombies

(01:06:47):
protect your life total and close out games. It was
strong enough to make the Game Changers list for us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
They're gonna take this off the next Game.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Changers I hope. So oh I So. Field of the
Dead is banned on Magic Arena in the brawl format
and has been for many years, and I've been saying
for a long time it should be unbanned there because again,
the combo decks just go right over the top of it.
Like sure, whatever mid range, whatever mid range game plan
they're trying to define with Field of the Dead is

(01:07:19):
not it's not what the brawl format is. It's not
what Commander is like. It's it's a go big, go
over the top. And sure, you can combine Field of
the Dead with a car like Scape Shift. Scape Shift
says sack all your lands, search your library, put a
bunch of lands on the battlefield, so like when you
do this, but Field of the Dead, you might make like,
you know, somewhere between twelve and twenty zombies. Your opponents

(01:07:43):
have one hundred and twenty life between them, and I
guarantee they're spending their time and effort on something equal
to or more powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
And if they let you get to Field of the Scape,
shift and you lose. That's that's on you. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah, so we're on the same page. This card is cool,
this card is. It's a beloved card. I just I
don't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I'm not gonna see play now. I'll tell you that
it will.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
It's gonna be if in bracket three, it's gonna be
rough because there's so many game changes on the list now.
Picking three so hard. But bracket four and bracket five,
it's not good there. No, it doesn't see CDH play.
It's useless there. It feels like they banned it from
the whole format with this move. That's how I think
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
And that's sometimes like you you will do that where
they like limit a card, but it effectively bans it
because like you would never play it like otherwise unless
you could play multiple copies or something like that. So yeah,
I mean it's they basically banned it in a way.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
I hate it, man. I love this card. I and
a lot of people love this card. The biggest thing
about Field of the Dead for me was like it
was kind of a stressor on me when I started
playing Commander because I could put it in almost any deck,
Like I like it's so easy to turn this. Yeah,
and so I only owned one copy, So, like which

(01:09:07):
deck to put it in was my great dilemma. And
I feel like there might be some of that ubiquity
here of like maybe they got sick of building manna
bases around Field of the Dead or something. But I
don't think that's a good enough reason. You don't have
to play it. You know why I cut it for
most of my decks because it didn't matter if it
was in there. Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'm with you

(01:09:31):
on this one. I'm with you. I'm glad you said
you did say for the record, take it off, right.
I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
I said, yeah, I was wrong, but I was right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Spirit we're both I would go down. I'll take that
l as well. It's fine. I feel like we all
lost something in this experience, I think. So. Okay, new card,
new card. I don't know if I've ever shown you
this card.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Food chain doesn't look familiar. Tune agreen for an enchantment
Exile of Creature. You control at x manna of any
one color, where x is one plus the exiled creature's
mana value. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.
I'm assuming you can do this as many times as
you want to turn correct.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Does it say you can't?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Thank you very much? Set you up? Yeah, Uh, that
seems potentially very good. I'm thinking of like strategies where
you can just put out a bunch of stuff and
then just like sacrifice it all the food chain and
then you can play some big creature and just like

(01:10:40):
win the game as a result of that. So that
seems pretty good. I've been very wrong about everything else
up until this point, so our our streak is not
going particularly well. If you're up to me, I would
say that this this has like some alarm bells and
I feel like this should be on the list. But
then you're gonna be like, ah, this card like sucks
and took it off or something like that. I'm gonna

(01:11:03):
say it wasn't and they put it on. I don't know.
This card just just just screams. There's like abuse to
be had here. It's very cheap, especially in green. I
feel like there's a lot of ways to have used
this card. So I'm gonna say this was not on
the list and is now on the list, and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
You would be correct. Oh that is correct. Food food
Chain has been added to the game changer list, something
you may have missed out. God, I see why you
do it. It feels so good.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
It's fun, isn't it. Creature to food chain?

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Is that? What? Yes? Your commander specifically, anything about that?
I think about when you when you exile your commander
to food chain, it's going to make manna and send
the commander back to the command zone. So if you
have a commander, like, let's show you Voxy's favorite commander
here Prash sky Raider of cur When this enters the battlefield,

(01:11:57):
it creates x O one Cobald creature token, where x
is the amount of manna spent to cast prash. So
you exile the prash and you get seven mana. If
you exile any of these little Cobalds, those are one
mana each because it's one plus the man of value
of zero, which gives you enough mana to recast prash,

(01:12:19):
which makes the Cobalds again. This time you eat more
because you spent more mana, and you continue until you
have infinite Cobalds, infinite manna, and an infinitely power Prash.
So if you have a way to fling it at
the opponent or make it attack the turn it comes out.
You know, you did pretty good. You did pretty good.
There's a lot of ways to win a game from
that position. So food Chain is a combo tastic card.

(01:12:43):
Not to mention, this card is one of the great
pieces of magic history. In an eternal format, they'll print
a card eventually that does everything.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
So cool.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Yep, Miss Hollow Griffin. You may cast it from exile.
So if you exile a Miss Tallow Griffin with food Chain,
it's now in exile. You can cast it from exile
with the mana from the food Chain, which nets you
a plus one mana, and do it again and you
have infinite mana on the spot.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Food Chain is very much like a U gi oh card.
Like obviously we went off costs, but like this type
of like enabler to do like crazy bullshit, like a
card like this would exist in you Gyo one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Yeah, I think this was a miss for the original
game Changer list that they should have done. I'm actually
really happy about this because I feel for Voxy. She
loves uh Prash Skyraider of cur but Commander, Yeah, every
time she plays it, she has to tell the opponents
I'm not running food chain because she's not trying to
like combo kill them. That cheesy. It's considered a very

(01:13:42):
cheesy win to food chain people when your commander is
one of the many commanders built to abuse food chain.
So she always has to explain I don't have food chain,
and it throws people's like, if she doesn't have this
conversation it throws everybody's perception of the deck off completely interesting. Yeah,
so actually this is a good thing because now she
can be like, it's bracket too prash, so there's no food. Yeah, right,

(01:14:05):
and that's easy, easy conversation to have. That's deal with.
Oh you remember this card probably.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Necropotens. This does look familiar. You may show me a
different art though it's triple black. For an enchantment, skip
your draw step whenever you discard a card exile like
card from your graveyard, pay one life exile the top
card of your library, face down. Put that card into
your hand at the beginning of your next end step. Yeah,
this card's nuts. I feel like this should God, how
is it there? You're gonna tell me they took this off.

(01:14:36):
This card just seems insane. I feel like they have this,
this had but then then that means it was off before, yeah,
which is like before they're like, oh we sorry, guys,
we missed this. This one seems nuts. I don't know.
I feel most.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Popular cards of all time Necropotents.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
I feel like it should be on there. You're gonna
tell me it's they it was and they took it off,
So I will take the l I think it should
be on there though.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Yeah, you're right, they didn't put on the list. That's
it wasn't on the list.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
How did they miss this? Scar crazy? They they're too
worried about field of the Dad. Excuse me, it's deflecting
swat and sphere sphere. Yeah, there, big, big, big commander
warping trinisphere. God heaven forbid, Oh my god, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Yeah. So Necropotence was one of the almost like from
the moment they revealed the list and everyone's yeah, whereas necropots. Yeah.
So it's one of the most easy additions to the
list I think there can possibly be, and they did it. Glory, glory, hallelujah,
free it last.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Well, I mean it's still there, but at least there's
a semi restriction on it right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Yep, yep, it's it's a thing, all right. Let's do
this one then, And I got another black.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Card Orcish bow Masters. This is one in a black
for an orc archer, one one with flat. When this
enters the battlefield, and whenever an opponent draws a card
except the first one they draw on each of their drawsteps,
this deals one damage to any target than a mass
orcs one. What the hell does that mean?

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
That means you create a token that's a zero zero
and you put a plus one plus one counter on it,
and any future a masses at a plus one plus
one counter to that army token. It's called army.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
So it's one token, but it keeps getting the counters.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yep, it keeps getting the counters.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Okay, so you don't keep making tokens, got it? Okay?
Hmm what do you think of this? Gud? Remembern opponent
draws a card except the first one they draw in
each other drawsteps or when it enters. So I guess

(01:16:55):
you can flash it when they're gonna do something that
draws cards, and then you get to pop something or
deal with damage or something rather, and then you get
another guy? Does it? Check each card. So if I
draw two, do I deal to damage and a mass two?

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
That is correct?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Ooh okay, So that's very interesting because in you gi oh,
most of the time, if there's an effect like that
MAXI for instance, you know your favorite mode insect, if
you special some in five monsters at the same time,
you only get one draw off of MAXI. But if
you special some of those five monsters individually, you get
one drop per So interesting. That makes this car a

(01:17:39):
lot better than I first though at first I was like,
why are you showing me this like at all? Like
it seems fine, but that could be annoying for Commander,
though I feel like this would be better in like
other formats like standard or like Modern. I don't know

(01:18:00):
about Commander, but that could be wrong. But I guess
if you have three opponents that changes this card too,
because then they all do it and then you're amassing
a lot faster. Ooh, that's something too to think about,
because then you can like a mass like seven by
the time your turn rolls around and it's like turn
two and you have like a big guy uh, and

(01:18:23):
you've dealt seven damage to something on top of it,
which is like annoying. Huh interesting. The more I like realize,
the more I just like analyze this card, the more
I'm like, oh, this card is actually like extremely good.
It's like one of those cards that it's not super flashy,
I feel like, but it's just like very efficient at.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
What it does. Good little Boy, isn't it homey the boomy?

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Would they have to put this on the game changers list?
It doesn't like sh it does a scream game changer?
To me? It's like it's good, but I don't know.
Maybe they put it there because they were afraid and
they took it off. You're gonna tell me they put

(01:19:18):
this on the list, I swear, will I probably?

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
I'm this is a tough one for you. I like this.
I like this.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
It's I feel like the hardest cards to evaluate are
the ones that are like just like not flashy but
super efficient, right, because I feel like it could go
either way, And obviously, with my limited time playing the game,
like I would have more experience. But that's obviously the
whole point of us doing this. Turn two, everything coming, okay,

(01:19:53):
if you have three opponents, let me think about this.
Everyone's playing like some things they're playing manner rocks, this
doesn't matter. But if they play like the guys are
probably gonna have like two to three toughness on turn two,
and if your oponent's drawing stuff, then you can like
just like shoot those things down while you're like slowly
getting another guy, and then it's like they aren't developing

(01:20:13):
a board at all. If they're playing stuff that's like
a man O dork, or if they're just playing like
whatever efficient like Hermit Druid or like something like that,
they can just like kill that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
They also talked about wheels with the things that prevent
the draws before. Yeah, so a bow Master there, it's interesting.
Would you rather have the you don't draw any cards
and you sit there with nothing in your hand, or
you have bow Masters, which deals twenty one points of
damage to all these targets and makes a twenty one
power creature.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
I can't believe I'm gonna say this, because initially I
was like, eh, this is fine, but I actually think
maybe they did put this on the list. It's like,
it's weird to compare this to like fucking necropotents, But yeah,
I'm gonna say they put it on the list. I
don't feel good about it, And honestly, I hope I'm wrong,
but I think they might have.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Why do you think they would do that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
I I don't know. It just seems like the more
I think about it, like the more oppressive it kind
of is. With like the pinging, Like the amassing is
fine too, but the fact that you get to ping
down all your opponent's stuff, the fact every time they're
like getting extra draws, and it's just like all this
like free removal in a way, like in quotes, it's
like bonus removal. I feel like that would just be
very frustrating to play against, especially if you're like at

(01:21:32):
a lower tier, because you're wanting, you like your things
to stick and like to do your big thing. So
that's like my guess, and you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Would be correct. Wow bow masses to the Game Changer
list along with Narsett and Notion Thief, who I showed
you earlier, and they were categorized. They were categorized together
in a group, which I don't think does justice to
Orchish bow Man. So I showed it to you separately
so I can monologue about it a little bit. Because

(01:22:04):
this card, I think everybody thought it was good and
then they actually played it when it came out. Of course,
in the Lord of the Rings set, you can see
the uh there yep, So this was the I mean,
everybody was nuts about the one ring from day one,
but they weren't all on board with bow Masters until
you felt it on the battlefield. First of all, this

(01:22:25):
is the best two dudes card ever printed. There's a
ton of cards in magic history there are two mana
for two creatures, and they vary in their usefulness among
different formats and strategies. This is two mana for two dudes,
but also one damage to any target, which on its
own really shut down a lot of one toughness creatures
in the format. I mean it just because on its own,

(01:22:48):
like say, the opponent has two to one to one dudes, right,
who aren't Orcish bow masters? You kill one, you block
the other with your other one.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
One, it's it's probably crushed aggurate.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Oh yeah, absolutely brutal card in one v one four.
Then they started playing it in Commander, and honestly, it
found its best homes in CEDH. Really yes, it went
into CEDH and some consider it one of the most
like format warping cards ever. In CEDH let's talk let's

(01:23:19):
talk about it. So there's the surprise bow master when
the opponent like goes for a wheel and you make
all that power and toughness and then if the turn
gets back to you, you kill them or maybe it's
enough damage to shoot them down on the spot from
a wheel. That's really good. That's nice, that feels good.
Here's the more common problem. Player A gets a ristic study,

(01:23:40):
Player B has a bow master. Oh god, and they
work together. Oh no, d are fucked. It's over. So
like any kind of manadorc like one mana oh, one
creature that taps for mana, any kind of a stax

(01:24:01):
piece creature that's only like like one toughness got annihilate,
just removed from the format.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
And I imagine is playing like super low cost stuff already,
like just they try.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a very low curve format. So like
a lot of things that were very competitive are much
less competitive now because of bow masters, like it runs.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Those tapess so interesting. Wow. Yeah again I talk about
just like super efficient cards. Yeah makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Yeah. I can you imagine if you and I were
playing a commander game, I say, with Boxy and Amy
for example, and Amy had a ristic study and Boxy
out of bow Masters, and so ain't like Boxy's just
casting spells, letting Amy draw cards so that the bow
Masters is shooting our creatures and the army becomes I've
seen armies over twenty easily, I've seen.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Don't give them the army. They don't watch this.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
I no way they would listen to us for this long.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Are you kidding? Fair? We're we're an hour and a
half in, so yeah, we're we're pretty safe.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Oh yeah, this card does a lot of things to
a commander game, and they're not good. It's it's a
it's a brutal card. I'm glad you got I'm glad
you got there because it is an unassuming card on
fat had any idea. I had no idea on first
read this was going to change the metal.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
I love when that happens, though, when we first see
cards and we're like it's whatever, and then it ends
up being like the format warping card of the fore
just like I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
All Right, I got one more, you got one more
in you one.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
More, let's do it. We're almost at the end. Trouble
in pairs. Hey, it's us two men and two white.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
A plagiarism of us. So I'm gonna tell I have
to address this now because people are going to type
in the comments there's a controversy with the art of
this card. It contains like plagiarized pieces of art from
like five other art pieces. Just be pasted it does.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Okay, here's the real question. Are you the person with
the mohawk or the headband?

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
Headband? Obviously I was gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
I'm the mohawk person for sure here okay, yeah, see
we're on the same page, we know, all right. Anyway,
this is an enchantment that features yours truly, if an
opponent would begin an extra turn, that player skips that
turn instead. Whenever an opponent attacks you with two or
more creatures, draw their second card, or draws their second
card each turn, or cast their second spell each turn,

(01:26:18):
you draw a card. I'm assuming if they do all three,
you can draw three cards off of this. Yes, okay,
need to clarify that tax you two more creatures, draws
their second card each turn, or cast their second spell eachtern,
you draw a card. Okay, So I think the first
part of this text is like whatever I mean, there

(01:26:39):
are extra turn stuff. But I mean, you can't account
for that. So I think it's like more about the
second effect. If I had to guess, like if the
first thing comes up, sure, whatever, we're here to draw cards. Uh,
it's kind of annoying because they can choose not to
attack you with two or more creatures. That's pretty easy
for them to avoid. Potentially depending on the deck. If

(01:27:01):
a deck that goes wide, maybe they can't afford to
do that, but you can sort of control that. Drawing
their second card each turn, I feel like, is difficult
because a lot of decks want to have card draw
and then casting their second spell each turn is also
very difficult because a lot of people want to play
their stuff. It doesn't like keep going right. It's only
when they played the second when you draw cards, not
like the third spell they draw two.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
That is correct.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Okay, so at most this is drawing you three cards.
Is turned if all three things happen, which could happen?
Do you have three opponents?

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Yeah, you have three opponents.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
I was gonna say that, yep, yep, you have three opponents.
So you could hypothetically draw nine off of this in
like a perfect world. But let's even say you draw
like four or five, six, because like they just don't
attack with two things, but like playing their second spell,
especially if this is on turn four, if you're playing
like Green, maybe you can ramp this out a little
bit sooner. That seems pretty likely they might play two

(01:27:51):
things because generally the curve kind of lends itself that way, so.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
It might also cast second spells are draws cards on
other players terms.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
That's true if they have like instant speed stuff like
the Orchestra bo Masters for instance, they could try to
like play around this. It's like it's like white Ristic
Study at home, kind of sort of not really, but
you know they're trying.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
They're really trying, so cute when they try.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
It's it is it really is.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
I have to think about this in the context of
Commander being able to draw that many cards that Ristic
Study is a game changer. This is not Ristic Study,
but it is close in a lot of ways, because
people need to like do things during their turn, especially
in the later stages. Like if you're playing this on four,

(01:28:45):
it's pretty likely people are going to be drawing multiple cards,
or playing at least more than one card, or attacking
with two things. I can't see a world where this
was initially on the list and then they took it
off when riskic study is still on the list. But
like maybe they're like, oh, white sucks here, you have

(01:29:08):
this now, you know have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
That's a tough one to borderline one. It could go
either way.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
I want to say, because risk study is also a
game changer, that this is a game changer as well.
So I'm gonna go with that logic because that was
the logic with intuition and gifts un given, So I'm
gonna go with that same logic.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
I'm just gonna say, I did some quick math. Your
current score on this video is six and six. You
are determined. God, this is gonna be determined above or
below fifty? Are you su on your answer? You're locking
it in.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
I'm gonna lock it in, all right?

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
That this is now a game changer, Yes, And I'm
regret to inform you that Trouble in Pairs is no
longer a game changer. It was on the initial list.
I was really surprised, Like this is one of the

(01:30:27):
first things I saw.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
I still think Trouble in Pairs is like draw a
card if you sneeze, and I argue, Yeah. My argument
was that the reason they can take it off the
list is because you players out there forget your triggers
so much. It doesn't try to make cards as a shit.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
It's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
I think that's very realistic. I've been in a commander
of games. I know how it goes. How many times
have I sat there being like, oh, I got to
remind them about their trouble impairs, But God, watching them
draw these cards fixing me. I think this is a
really good card. The explanation said it is the first
card being delisted ever from the Game Changer's List, So

(01:31:09):
there's that this card has emerged as a standout card
since it was released about a year ago. While it
can draw a lot of cards, it's on par with
some cards that are not on the list. I'm curious
what those are like. They didn't give exacts, but there's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
On par with some cards that are on the list,
So like, what's the difference.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Yeah, the general okay, going on, The general feeling is
that it is slightly under the bar for the Game
Changer's List, and we are probably jumped the starting line
a little on this one. It's plausible. It could get
added back in the future as the list evolves and
they receive more feedback.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
Oh, I'm going to be so mad if they put
it back on because of the video, just because of
the video. Yeah, it's like I can't making the analogy
to Ristic study. It's not Ristic study, but it's like
it's pretty damn close. I think the biggest problem is, honestly,
it probably costs for MATA. I think that's like the
biggest thing. In a cost to it probably would still

(01:32:01):
be on there.

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
You know what this means. You know what this means.
Every time you have a bad video, I really have
to buckle up for next week's video on your channel.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean you already you've been
You've been doing okay recently.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
I don't want to spoil anything. I don't spoil anything.
There might be a video coming out that people have
been eagerly awaiting after like us doing this for almost
a year now.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
So we'll see, see, we'll see. Thank you for watching
or listening to the Covert Go podcast. Remember to use
the promo code cgb pod at checkout on cool stuff
ink dot com to show that you love the show.
Also subscribe on your audio platforms like Spotify and Apple
Music and iHeartRadio. Leave a review with five stars of

(01:32:56):
course for yours truly to help grow the show. Thank
you for watching, and as always, you're cool.

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Ep. 10 - WOTC Unbanned Some Crazy Cards in Commander (Feat. Cimoooooooo)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 10 - WOTC Unbanned Some Crazy Cards in Commander (Feat. Cimoooooooo)