Ep. 25 - YugiOh player ranks Universes Beyond cards (feat. Cimoooooooo) - CovertGoPodcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The cover Go podcast is now on iHeartRadio, Spotify, and
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the audio version of the show. Do Do Do, Do
Do Do, Dude, COVID podcast, Cemo.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I spoke, I spoke too soon.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I wasn't done. I wasn't done. Are you ready, Semo, Cemo,
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for this. The controversial,
the very controversial topic, the extremely polarizing topic of the
magic the gathering community. Cemo, I am going to have
you today, rate commanders from you God versus Beyond?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh God, why is this a controversial topic? Give me
the lore, ah.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
The deep lore of universes beyond, and quite specifically, not
just any universes beyond Secret Layer, Universes beyond. So Secret
Layer launched a few years ago, and in fact I
can even find the year, probably like twenty twenty, I believe. Yeah,

(01:28):
and the idea kind of made sense in a new
capitalism world, I guess if you want to call it that.
They decided to sell special editions and special prints and
special arts of cards directly to the public, they being
Wizards of the Coast Secret. Look, before that, you had

(01:48):
to go through online retailers and your local game store
and things like that to get your magic cards. Now
Wizards was selling direct to consumer in items that had
limited tid ish availability. And I'll talk a little more
about that because that's part of the controversy as well.
But this was the first Wizard's time. Maybe not the first,

(02:10):
there might have been dabbling over the years, but this
was the first full scale Wizard selling directly to the
public through e commerce thing. Okay, yep, So of course
people were concerned. People were concerned the would there be
enough print run, would there be enough product, and would

(02:30):
these would these special additions do anything weird to the market.
And at first it was just like art on a
plane's you can't get anywhere else, and like here, here's
four copies of a staple serum visions with special arts
on them, you know what I mean. And it looked
really pretty. Yeah, people were into this. People are like, Okay,

(02:51):
that's not so bad. Some people still didn't like it,
but for the most part, the community wasn't too worried.
But then but then, but then Secret Layer that universes beyond.
Universes beyond is properties outside of magic, the gathering on
magic cards, unofficial Wizards of the Coast, magic cards like

(03:12):
fin Fantasy, like Final Fantasy, And there are two types
of universes beyond that you should keep in mind. From
Secret Layer there are reeskins. This is like SpongeBob SpongeBob stuff. Yeah, yeah,
SpongeBob is Joe to the unifier. It's not what they
call mechanically unique. It does the same thing a different

(03:33):
card does, just with some different art and the beautiful
SpongeBob flavor.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
And how do you feel about that? Out of curiosity?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I think myself, like most people, it's fine. If that's
really what you want to do with your Joda deck
is build a SpongeBob deck. That doesn't bother me a lot.
It bothers some people, And of course individual properties are
triggering to different people for different reasons. But I would
say most of the time, that's fine. I don't do

(04:02):
you know what altars are? Do they have these in
the u GIO? Do you know, like the still.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Arts same card, but just like different art. Yes, yeah,
we we. It actually took a while for Ugo to
really start doing alter arts like more commonly. It was
actually like not very common for a long time, and
then now they've started doing it a lot more.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm also talking about not through Konami, right, not
through Wizards of Coast like things that artists do on
the side. For you, alter card.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
That's very interesting. That's actually not allowed for like competitive.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yes, it's not allowed for competitive playing magic either.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
But okay, but we're just like commander, like who cares.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Exactly the rise of the Commander format, alters became a
form of self expression, and people would go to artists
on places like Etsy and say, you know, make me
a Joe to the unifier that's a SpongeBob SquarePants for
their SpongeBob SquarePants deck. And some could say that's where
reeskins came from.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Interesting, it's funny you say that because I think at
a Yuyo event, I would to and I hope the
person is watching this video and they're in the comments.
They actually gave me. I think like when we started
doing these collabs, I went to this event and this
person gave me. I think they like hand painted over
like a couple of lands like a planes and such,
and they just like gifted it to me. They're like, oh,

(05:16):
you know, I love the magic collabse like you know,
here you go. This is like you know, I just
do this on the side, and they're really pretty. I
still have them. As a matter of fact. I usually
I keep all the stuff that fans give me in
like a little box, and so I still have them somewhere.
So if I'll show you one day, if I can find.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Them, that is awesome. I've been gifted islands and mountains
with art on them. We talked about the maxi Ristic
study right in that.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
I need to get that whoever made that, I need
to get that.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Slide into semos DMS. So I think most people understand reskins,
not sure as controversial. But what came next, what came
out in August or August September fall of twenty twenty
was mechanically Unique Universes beyond Cards, meaning these are new

(06:03):
cards in magic the gathering. These are the only cards
of their kind at the time, and uh they have
special art and skins from an outside property. Let's start
at the beginning. So I'm going to show you some
of these cards, and you have some interesting jobs here
because it wouldn't be a proper video without some guessing.

(06:25):
So I have two things for you to guess. One
has the popularity of the commander as the the EDH
rec rank of the commander, and two is the price
of the card.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh jesus, not the price. I know, back to square one.
We brought it back.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm going to have you check out this card and
then we're going to go over each of those things
one by one, because like, there's probably some questions that
you have and we should ground. We should ground the
video and some reality before we have you guess.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
But let's all okay, how am I rating the cards
is like a one to five scale type of thing,
or like how how my? What's my measure for rating?

Speaker 1 (07:07):
That will get to it in a moment, But for
eating wreck rank, it's the popularity the commander, one being
the most popular and one million being the least popular.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
One million great fantastic.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't know if there's a one million. The Covergo
podcast is brought to you by cool stuff ink dot com.

(07:42):
Use the discount on your orders and show your love
for the podcast. That cool stuff is going to be great.
Read the card and see if you can take a guess.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so it's two and two white for a three
four legendary human soldier obviously kids commander as Rick entered.
I like how they just they abbreviate his name as Rick.
As Rick enters the battlefield, choose two abilities from among
first Strike, Vigilance, and life link. That's interesting. I think
you showed make a card that does that. Humans you
control have each of the chosen abilities. Okay, that's neat.

(08:19):
And then as long as you control four or more
humans humans you control get plus two plus two.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
That does not help me in the slightest figuring out
where this is from that that this shows how it
went in tune with pop culture.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
You're doing great. You're doing great, man. I wish I
almost want to make it another game. It's really time, Like,
guess what the IP is that it's from fire a missile?
Does it does? Do you get any vibe? But do
you get a vibe of any guind here?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
It gives me like like some sort of like survival
show vibe.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Because like I don't know these like I don't know,
these look like people that are like to kill zombies
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You are doing really good. Right, now you have am
I Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
I don't know where, I don't know what the show is,
but that's like, this is the vibe I get from
this photo.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yep, this is the first Universes Beyond and it is
the Walking Dead.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh okay, so and all defense, I've never watched that show.
I've never had any interest in watching that show, so
I never would have figured that out. Yeah, okay, reasonable,
We're starting out good. We're starting out good. Hmmm. This
is interesting, Like it's cool because it's like, uh, I mean,
like most commanders, the fact that it's like, oh, all
humans have the abilities, that's like really neat, and the

(09:35):
fact that you can like you have like this modal
like depending on the circumstance, because it's also neat because
if he goes back to the command zone and you
like replay him, then like you can pick different abilities.
So like maybe early game you want I don't know,
like first strike vigilance, but then maybe later you want
like vigilance life link because you're like down on life, right,
that's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Or maybe I have another Carter effect that gives them
all life links, so you don't need that one.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
You don't need it, Yeah, exactly, you can just have
first striking vigilance.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
I've always been a fan of like modal cards. I
think like they're really like just like the flexibility of
them is cool. And then all humans you control have it.
So this has to be in play, right, This isn't
like this from the command zone. They just oh yeah,
because they enter the battlefild. Yeah yeah okay, and then
four more humans get plus two plus two, so then
that would count himself. So then he becomes a five

(10:25):
to six for four, which is like pretty good. Okay,
I guess qualifying question, how easy or difficult is it
to get four more humans on the battlefield.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I don't have this number in front of me, but
I'm ninety percent sure it's correct that humans are by
far the most printed creature type in magic.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay, good to know, Good to know, and I imagine
there's probably some good ones as well.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
They do suck humans. Decks have been played through the
years in formats from standard to modern.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
The synergy is cool. You know me though, Like I'm
very much a fan of like I want each card
to like kind of like do stuff by itself, and
this card does some stuff by itself because it affects
itself because it is a human, but then also benefits
your other humans as well, So like that's pretty good.
This doesn't seem like egregious or anything though, Like this
just seems like I could see people getting pissed off

(11:19):
that they're putting the Walking Dead in magic, but I
couldn't see like, oh, like damn that Rick deck Is
is fucking crazy, you know. Ah, Okay, I mean maybe
I'm wrong, but like this doesn't seem that oppressive to me.
This just seems like this seems fine. It seems like okay, I.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Should also cover that A big frustration for people is
that this was also printed to be legal in other
formats besides Commander, like legacy and vintage.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh that's so weird.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
They're really old. They're really old formats and it takes
a lot to break into them. So I guess you
have to ask yourself if this is a legacy or
vintage card.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I don't know, Like I mean, for comparing it to
my eternal format, this like this, Like I said, this
seems fine, So okay, so I have to I have
to rate this and then what to guess the price?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right? Yeah, So first of all, let's get into rating
on the Ada Trex skill. Sure, so every commander is ranked. Uh,
and if you want, you can ask the name of
some commanders. I can look up their rank as like
guide posts for you to figuring out like how high
to play something. But I mean, we're we're it's kind
of wild to take a shot at numbers between like

(12:31):
one and ten thousand or something. So if you want
some guide rails, I can give you a few. So
if you do, you have a commander in mind that
you can remember and you that might help you gauge
like how popular something is.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, well, I guess let's let's do Let's do some
commanders I've played, because that's the easiest one. So let's
do like Muldrotha. I feel like Muldrowth is way better
than this card, So Buldrotha is probably gonna be really high.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
And a very beloved commander. So muldrou Okamuldrowth is ranked
twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Jesus Christ, it's very It's okay, all right?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
What about cloud?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Which one? Which?

Speaker 2 (13:14):
One great question? The rank was the one I played?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
What was the name of it? Ex soldier or something
soldier or something like that. He's red, green, and white.
I'm pretty sure Cloud is ranked one hundred and thirty six,
which is pretty high.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's pretty high. Yeah, I was about to say, like
I was expacing to be a lot lower. Okay, especially
my experience with it. Uh. Who else did I play?

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Where's Kefka at Kefka? I hope Keka is higher? Let's
see is one hundred and forty nine?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Kefka's below Cloud?

Speaker 1 (13:47):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (13:48):
These ranks are all times, so an older commander often
does better than a newer one. But anything in like
the top two hundred is really high. So these final
fantasy ones are very popular.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Who else? What was the dragon that I played during
the tavol? You're gonna there's multiple tables, so the balance scale,
the one from the pre con is ranked fifty eight.
I mean that card was good, So I'm not not
like super surprised. I'm surprised it's that high, but I'm
not surprised. It's like good. I guess Okay, this gives

(14:20):
me like an idea. This gives me like an idea.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
The table, the dredge that you the blood the dredge
table you played five sixty seven?

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh wow, that's way worse.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean, you've you have honestly named a bunch of
bangers in the last like in your first run. There,
you've been hooked up, you've been you've been eating good
at the Commander table, my friend.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
I have been, and I've been having a lot of fun.
Hopefully we get to have more fun in the future. Okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a shot in the dark here.
Let's go like three three twenty three twenty. Okay, yeah,
maybe that seems kind of low. Maybe do I go
in the two hundreds. I don't know if the other

(15:04):
table was like down in the fives. Yeah, I le
was go like three twenty. I don't know why that
number is calling to me.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
We're just we're just gonna We're just gonna set some
goal posts. That's all we're doing. We're taking some ships,
we're figuring somethings out. It's ranked seven ninety nine.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Okay. I was being a bit generous thinking it was
gonna be higher. So good. I'm glad it's lower than
I thought because I thought that other table was better.
But I'm like, ah, maybe I'm I'm just like completely
off on this. And I was so that's great for
the video. Uh okay, and now to guess the price
of this, so the double for me.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, Let's get into some more controversy because a big
concern was that the price of these things would be
so high because the print run is limited, and because
Wizards is printing things from other IP holders that they
have the rights to for a specific time period Force
Pacific product that people don't know because we don't have

(16:02):
the contracts. There is a you know, there is a
fear that these cannot be reprinted. So Wizards of the
Coast created what's called universes within. Universes within is when
they make a version of the card that is just
a different name and has no reference to the Walking
Dead or Walking Dead art. So I get the same card,

(16:23):
but it's the same card. So I get to show
you they did do this for the Walking Dead after
a lot of uproar online. And this is graymund Avison Stewart.
This is functionally identical to Rick Steadfast Leader, and it
has been printed in a like the list products. I
think and might what was this sold in? But this

(16:45):
is important to note just because Rick has been functionally reprinted,
not all the cards. I'm going to show you have
been functionally reprinted.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Got it? And I think that definitely takes a toll
on how the price of this is because at this
point you're just buying Rick just to have Rick.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yes, it's not like you you need Rick because there's
only like one copy available of it. Yes, that's gonna
hurt the price quite a bit. It's kind of weird
that they do direct to consumer, but they limit the
print run still when they can just have like an
unlimited print run for like a period of time.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
That's the next thing. So Wizards has fluctuated on this.
In certain periods of time, they have printed to demand
and then you get your cards like several months later,
so they take your order, they print for everybody who ordered. Sure,
in recent times they went back on that. They went
back on that and followed the last year, and now

(17:35):
it's just a limited what we have. Once it's gone,
it's gone.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, it's just weird because it's like, why would you
limit the money printer?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
But whatever, I don't, I don't. That is a very
good question and a major source of Yeah, because you're
a source of friction in the community.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Right now, you can still have the fomo if you
make it for like, okay, it's a limited time, but
we're gonna like have unlimited print runs. So it's like
whoever buys them has them. But then after maybe like
a week let's say, then it's like okay, now it's
like we're not printing this anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
So one more thing, this is very important for guessing
the price. The cost of the Secret Layer was forty
nine and it.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
The price secret Layers, not.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
All of them, and it included I believe the answer
is six other cards. It might be seven or eight,
but at least six other cards.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
There's no randomness though, Like you buy the Secret Layer,
all the cards are you know what you're getting.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
So for the cards I'm going to show you there
is no randomness. Every Secret Layer comes with one like
special bonus card, and there are some ultramega rare bonus cards,
but I will not be showing you those. The cards
I am showing you are guaranteed in the Secret Layer.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Well, if numers if the MSRP for fifty, that doesn't ness.
I mean if again it got functionally reprinted. So at
this point it's like, how badly do you want Rick?

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
He's a handsome guy for being an old guy, h say,
like especially with his rating being so low. But like
at this point, it's not about the playability's about the
collectibility because like again you have the functional reprint anyway,
which in defense of that, I think the reprint looks
cooler than Rick, but that's a different story. How much

(19:27):
are people what's the price tag on Rick? How much
are people willing to pay for Rick? This is like
you know when they like auction off people for like dates.
That's what it feels like we're doing here.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Look into the eyes, do you feel a connections em
how much?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I don't think he's worth more than the box. He's
probably worth like I want to go a bit higher
just because it's maybe if you really like the Walking
Dead make maybe there's the demand for it. But like
ten bucks, Rick is worth ten bucks.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Obviously for Rick.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, like if it wasn't like the functional reprints, probably cheaper.
So I'll go ten bucks for Rick.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, fifty dollars fifty he's the price of the box.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Really, Okay, that's the walking Dead price. That's the Walking
Dead multiplier right there. Okay, yeah, right, And by.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Just again to be absolutely sure everybody gets the message.
That's the price that it sold for direct from Wizards
of the Coast. If you had bought this in twenty twenty,
you would have bought it for fifty bucks. So yep,
Rick right now is running the price of the Secret
Layer itself. Now, like the Walking Dead, I guess, I
mean did they so this was it was such a

(20:46):
hot topic here. Let's let's read this card first and
then I'll I have a little more to say about
the Walking Dead.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
This is the same Walker Layer card. Yeah, same Secret Layer. Okay,
uh began the cold Blooded. I don't know if that's
nagan there?

Speaker 1 (20:59):
It is? Again?

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Whatever to a red, a white, and a black for
a four to three human rogue synergize with the other one.
Funny enough, when he answers the Bautfield, you and an
opponent each secretly choose a creature that player controls. Then
those choices are revealed, and that player sacrifices those creatures.
How the hell do you even do that? How do
you secretly choose a You have to like write it

(21:22):
down on a piece.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Of paper, probably whisper it.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
I don't know, Like, yeah, that's that's interesting. Okay. Whenever
an opponent sacrifice a creature you created. A treasure is token. Okay,
so you he enters, each opponent sacrifices something and then
you get a treasure four and if you're playing Commander,
that means you get three treasures at max if everyone's
sacrificing something. Ah, this one's kind of weird because it

(21:54):
only does the effect on enter and then they get
to choose, which is never good. And yeah, you get treasures,
but you're only getting the treasures once unless your opponents
are also playing sacrifice type decks.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
So potential you know, vaguary spoiler alert for the Walking Dead.
But this is the villain. Rick is the good guy
leader of the Humans, and Megan is the villain and
likes to do a thing to send a message to
people to like pick basically pull out three people, pick
one randomly and make an example of them with his bat.

(22:33):
Lucille there that is covered in barbed wire.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Got it? Okay, Well it's fitting theme thematically in that sense.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm I feel like there's just like so many things
that are like this isn't good because then you have
to recast and he's like he's five things to recast
him for seven if you want to do this, and like,
I feel like there are other cards that I've played

(23:03):
and over seen that do something similar to this but
just way better and it's like way cheaper this or Cloud.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Let's not get into that discussion. At least, Cloud's just
a card on it.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's true, that is very true, But you're getting like
the treasure in exchange.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Cloud does that? You said?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Okay, you said Rick was like five hundred or something
or like seven hundred seven ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I guess the.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
One thing he has going form is that he's try
color because I feel like people don't necessarily I feel
like people like try color more than monocolor.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Very true, very true, but doesn't seem good.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's like if they only have like one big like
guy on the board, than sure, but I feel like
that's just like not super common for a lot of decks.
You get the treasures, but like I'm not feeling it.
I think I put this below Rick to be honest,
maybe like the tri color the tricolor like is the

(24:11):
only thing swaying me to like have it above Rick
because at least you have like some flexibility in that regard,
and Black has a bunch of like sacrifice stuff. So
like maybe you try to play a bunch of stuff
that makes your opponent sacrifice stuff and you're not willing
I get Okay, I guess the clarifying question is, like,
is there a high enough density of things that make

(24:32):
your opponent sacrifice things that you have agency over?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh? God, you could make them. Yeah, you could make
a hundred card deck of make them sacrifice. Yeah, because
I know, like when.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
We played with Ash, like she was doing a bunch
of sacrificing herself. But I'm just questioning if you have
the ability to like make them sacrifice stuff, you.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Won't make friends this way, but it's possible. I didn't
care about making friends.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I'm just maybe i'll put it slightly over Rick in
that case, like maybe like six fifty.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Going with it.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'm gonna go with that.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Sure, not bad. It's five seventy seven, Okay, not that
pretty close compared to Rick, considering it's your second guest here. Yeah.
I also think there's the general villain vibe is more
beloved than the leader, like a good guy vibe. And
also anytime you're looking at these you might want to

(25:28):
examine yet the colors like the colors you caught on
was a big deal. But if you want to build
a walking Dead deck, you could throw Rick in a
Megan deck. You can't throw Anagan in a Rick deck.
So yeah, all right, how much do you pay for
a cold blooded copy of that?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
So this is in the same set, and Rick's already
worth fifty? Uh, Rick's worth fifty because of like the
villain tax Is he worth a bit more? Okay, here's
a question. Did he get functionally reprinted as well?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Okay, uh. If Rick was fifty, I kind of feel
like Nigan's a little bit more expensive, So maybe he's
like sixty.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Lock it in. I'll lock it in eighteen dollars. I'm
so bad with fucking price. But I mean, this one
makes no sense. This one makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
That's why you picked it.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Uh huh. Yeah, absolutely, we started with a little mind
games Rick.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
People, he's really like Rick and not like Negan. Is
that what this is?

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Rick did see play in some decks, because, as I said,
humans actually do see play in formats, in old formats
like Legacy. Also, Rick became a staple in other Commander
decks like Winoda, where it was a huge hit off
of Winoda. So Rick actually drove demand by being functionally powerful,
whereas Megan is very narrow and really just a Commander

(26:54):
build around, and you only need one copy in that case.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
So it's because you could shove Rick it to other
decks because it's monocolm, where like Megan is like you
kind of have to build around. Okay, interesting, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
That makes sense Rick, I think I overlooked that fact
better card and that and because supply was limited, that
seems to have driven demand. So there it is. Ah,
So the controversy was insane. This was so much drama
in its day, the fact that they didn't know if
Wizards would reprint these, the idea that it was limited

(27:28):
and hard to get, the idea that it was you know,
it bypassed the local game store, fomo, all of these things.
There was actually a lot of people calling for these
to be banned in Commander because if you remember, the
Commander Rules Committee is separate from Wizards of the Coast
and independent, so they knew, like I think people rightfully

(27:49):
knew that if these got banned in Commander, it would
kind of take all the air out of Wizard sales,
and Wizards wouldn't be nearly as keen about doing these projects.
I'm honestly like it's still controversial to this day. I'm
glad that Wizards and I'm glad that the Rules Committee
didn't ban these in Commander because I think it adds
a lot to Commander to have universes beyond. I do

(28:10):
wish it was done in a more consumer friendly way,
and the concerns that people have had have definitely borne
out in a lot of ways. So we'll get into
that as we go. Let's see another universes beyond Commander.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You know, Oh my god, I'm.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
So excited because I'm gonna find out showing you these,
like what other properties you're into?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, well, this is obviously street Fighter because I know
street Fighter and I played street Fighter chud Lee. If
the Countless kicks one of white in the blue, this
is probably one of your cards to a three three
with multi kicker white or blue. Don't know what that means.
We'll figure it out, I imagine, which I imagine with all
the kicks, that's probably we're going with this. When Chunley
enters the battlefield, exile up to X target instant cards

(28:57):
from your graveyard where X is the number of times
is kicked. Put a kick counter on each of them.
It's out the X target instant cards from your graveyard,
where x is the number of times.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
So you there isn't reminder text. So let me tell you.
Multi kicker means you can pay that cost as many
times as you like when you cast the card, and
for each time you pay that cost, X goes up.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Does the initial playing of chun Lee count towards that
or is like you have to pay one blue or
white And that's the first X for multi kicker it
is it is.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
The number of times it was kicked. So if you'll
only put a three MANA for the three three, the
kick number is zero.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
That's right, got it? Okay, I just want to clarify that.
Thank you, all right. And then the lightning kick I'm sorry,
it's not spinning bird kick. Whenever chun Lee attacks, copy
each exiled card you own with a kick counter on it,
you may cast those copies. That's pretty cool. It's a
very u card, by the way.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
It's so is.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't know if you ever played with it, but
I've played.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
A few times. A few times.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Okay, Uh, cool card. I think I like this like
the most of the bunch, not just because the street
fighter chun Lee, but just like design wise, I just
like the card. So you you exile all the things
for multi kicker, So if you pay four, you exile one,
and then when it attacks, you copy. So that means

(30:26):
that if she sticks around, you get to keep doing it.
If I'm understanding this correctly, Yeah, that's pretty cool. That's sick. Yeah,
cool card.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
I'd like to play with this, Uh all.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Right, ranking, ranking, ranking, ranking. This seems better than the
other two, a bit narrower because it's two color, but
two color is still good. It's a kind of like
kind kind of and people really love chun Lee specifically. Yeah,
so o this one might be up there. Let's go

(31:02):
with she also just like seems like over time she
just gets better. Like even if you play her early
and you multi kick her for like lower, you still
get a lot of value if she sticks, but then
like if you play her later, then you just get
like insane value, which is nuts.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
So two things. You have to pay for the copies
to cast them. That was something I didn't realize when
I first played the card. But on a brighter note,
the things that are exiled with kick counters, stay exiled
with kick counters. So if if you play her, yep, exactly,
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
I thought it worked that way because it didn't say,
like you remove the kick counters. It does suck you
have to pay for the cards, but like you could
design the deck that like you're playing a bunch of
cheap instants that you just get value, right, like even
if it's like one or two man of draw card
or like one or two man to do something like
that's fine, right, you're kind of okay with that. God

(31:58):
the wife woo tacks. I feel like it's gonna push
the card up so much it was in the price.
I don't know what the playability. Let's go with.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
What does his heart tell him? What number does? What
number comes out of the sky, like did the call drop?
Did I lose you? You? This is a tough Wow, you're good.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
I'm just I'm in the tank thinking about that. I
want to try to get I want to get close
closer than I did with the other one, too fifty.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I thought this video would be hard. Rank is
two seventy seven. Wow, I was close. Basically, that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
In the World of Commander, like with all the possible commands,
that's basically a hit. Hell yeah, I mean if there's
something you and I know, it's like how animated women
on cardboard affects people. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, she's very popular.
She's very very popular.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
I see that now. Price wise though, all right, what
was the price of the Secret Layer she was released?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
It you could get nonfoil for forty and you could
get foil for fifty.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Interesting, so they had two different things.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
There were about nine there were nine cards in the
Secret Layer eight seven other characters from Street Fighter hmm.
And she has been reprinted in universes within as the
Arcane Blade Master.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
So she does have a reprint. That's important. But it's
still chun Ley. That's the problem is that that looks cool. True,
she still has like wife who tacks on her. That's fun.
I'm gonna go, Okay, let me ask this. Are there
other chun Lees or is this the only one?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
This is currently the only chun Lee.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Okay, that's magic.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
It was like cars. If there was like another like
Waifu Chunley, I feel like that could potentially affect things.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
To seventy five bucks, I.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Would like to think it would get there someday. But
the price right now is eighteen dollars.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Wow, I'm just considering it's chun Lee. I'm surprised so low.
I am too love Chunley. People love Chunley absolutely. This
one was printed to demand. This was during the era,
which I think helped chun Ley a lot. It was
also like as far as like the Secret Layers that
get a lot of attention, this one didn't get nearly

(34:37):
as much attention I think as people really expected. Yeah,
I'm kind of curious why if anybody has theories, But yeah,
Chunley actually in terms of like super Foil limited edition
cards that people wanted and are also very popular, not
very expensive right now. Oteresting, I highly that the wife

(34:59):
Fu multiple player obviously didn't apply here, so it's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Does it apply to this one?

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh God, Lara Croft tomb Raider. I'm gonna take a
guess here that this is from tomb Raider. We've got
a green of blue and a red for a three
to four human ranger. You're right, there's a lot of humans.
She has first strike and reach, and whenever she attacks
you exile up to one target legendary artifact card or
legendary land from a graveyard and put a discovery counter

(35:29):
on it. You may play a card from exile with
a discovery counter on it. This turn play is important
because of land, and you can do a land okay,
and then raid at the end of combat on your turn.
If you attacked create a treasure token. That's pretty good.
She's pretty cheap in terms of playing her. She does

(35:52):
have to attack for you to do the stuff, which
is ideal, but if she sticks around that could potentially
you get out of hand. Let me ask this, is
there any like cool thing that synergizes with her that's
like very common because.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
It doesn't have to be that's common.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, okay, so like
obviously soul rings not legendary, but like, is there something
that's like equivalent that like every deck is playing that
she wants to like rip.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
A legendary artifact that everybody is playing or land. That's
actually kind of tough because there are a lot of
cards that you can be considered and there's probably a
lot of cards jumping to the minds of the viewers
right now. But she's very open ended because you can
build this in a lot of different ways for me,

(36:41):
Like for a lot of people, they might say the
one ring, like you could recast the one ring with
this also, I believe it's yeah, one target legendary artifact
ard or legendary line from a graveyard, so you can
get the opponent's one rings if you can get them
in the graveyard. So that like something that comes to mind.
But there's a lot of legend lance, and there's a
lot of legendary artifacts, and there's a ton of legendary preachers.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You're also in blue, so you can sort of mill
yourself to like get that stuff in grave and then
like you have to pay for it though it's not
for free. I kind of hurt.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Have I shown you mind slaver? Do you know what
that does? Off the top of your head?

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Isn't it like take control of something?

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I think, yes, you get control of the opponent's next turn.
I'll send it over. This is what I do with
laracraft because you can just loop it and they you
control their turns forever. It's great, it's fun, it's fun.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's fine.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I'd fun for a certain type of person, that's for sure.
See I see the vision, But I'm not I'm not
sold on the vision because if you don't have set
up for this, she doesn't do anything. And like it's
great that you could try to deck build around that,

(38:02):
but I could see situations where like you just don't
have anything, or an opponent like doesn't have something, and
then she just doesn't do anything, like I guess she
makes a treasure token if she attacks, Like okay, cool, Uh,
it just seems like a lot of work. You don't.
You don't like your your gals to be a lot
of work in the matter gathering.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
So it's a way to it unless you give it
like haste or something like. She also can't do it
like when you immediately play her. She has to way
to hold turn just to do this, and they have
to have like you or the opponent have to have
something that's like worth grabbing, like just playing her for
her attacking to give you a treasure token. I don't
think it's like worth the squeeze.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Ah, you're really gonna say worth the squeeze four thirty,
four thirty, let's see you get five sixty three. Not
bad not bad, okay bad, not bad, not bad, not great,
not bad exactly, but yeah, does not nearly as popular
as Chu Chunley. I think, just more exciting design by far.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think, so, uh okay, did she get reprinted?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
She has not been reprinted?

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Ooh okay, that that matters? How much? Was the Secret
Layer the.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Same as Street Fighter? H forty for non foil, fifty
for foil. Of course, you dude, it's Laura. You gotta
get you gotta get the foil.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Come on now, come on, guys, unless they pringle uh
no comment Gio has that problem too, don't worry. Hmmm,
she hasn't been reprinted.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Tomb Raider.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
From an IP perspective, I feel like it's a very
boomer IP. I feel like not a lot of people
in modern day like care that much about tomb Raider,
and I could be wrong, and if people are going
to lambass me in the comments, feel free.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I think we have evidence from how the latest incarnation
of the movie and the cartoon show on Netflix did.
They did not do well right exactly. So, even though
she hasn't been reprinted, I don't think the demand for
her is like super high. I'll go like twenty bucks. Well,
she suffers no reprint and a bit of wife wu treatment.

(40:16):
She is a forty.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Dollars forty so bad at guessing these prices? This is incredible.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Well, it's good to know I can get you on something.
These days you can't.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
That's true. If you ever need to, like, just if
you're feeling like masochistic and you need to like feel
better about yourself, just do a pricing video with me,
and I'm sure that'll light your.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
What why do you think we're here today? What do
you think is happening? Right?

Speaker 2 (40:36):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I didn't know you'd be this good at guessing how
popular commanders are. I thought this would be just double
whammies all the way.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
As long as I beat Rare and that's all that matters,
all right. The fourteenth Doctor, I'm assuming this is Doctor Strange,
even though I've like never watched or like read anything
about this really very interesting casting costs that it's like
a hybrid red greed and then white and blue. I
don't think i've ever seen that before. For a time,

(41:04):
Lord Doctor, you think he's a human, but I guess
he's a doctor. Three four, When you cast this spell,
reveal the top fourteen cards of your library, I'm sure
there's obviously a reason for that, put all doctor cards
revealed this way into your graveyard and the rest on
the bottom of your library in a random order. You

(41:25):
may have the fourteenth doctor enter the battle. There's a
copy of a doctor card in your graveyard that was
put there from your library this turn. If you do
get taste until end of turn. Okay, So it's like
when you, I know, like when you cast a spell.
It's kind of like in purgatory. So it's like when
you cast it, you're you're doing the fourteen thing, and
then when he like enters, he copies. Is that how

(41:47):
that works?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Okay, it's just like in Yu gi oh Land. That's
not how it would work. But okay, I understand, Okay,
I guess here's the question. How many doctors are that
the cather?

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Wow, this is the fourteenth doctor? How many doctors are there?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Thirteen cards before it? And then are there some after?

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I really want to keep up the doctor strange thing
with you, but I can't. This is from Doctor Who.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
And Doctor Who Sorry, another doctor show I've never watched
or read anything about.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
So yeah, the Doctor Who product came out in Commander
Decks and there are fifteen doctors, Yes, fifteen total doctors.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Are those the only doctors in the game.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, they don't have any other creature type doctor from
other products.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
That's unfortunate, magics, you're really lean into that. Maybe they'll
get a whole bunch of like nurses and stuff that
want to play the game all of a sudden. Anyway, Uh, okay,
So there's fifteen doctors in total. You can only play
one per deck, so fifth object and that's assuming they're
all good, which I doubt. So let's assume ten of
them are actually playable and the other five suck. A

(43:00):
tenth of your deck is doctors. You get to reveal
the top fourteen, which so the math on that's not
great because you're playing one hundred card deck. You could
also already have them. Oh no, it has to be
sent there this turn Ooh that's a lot worse. Can

(43:22):
I ask if the other doctors are good?

Speaker 1 (43:30):
I mean, do you want an objective fact? I don't
know if any So again, they were made like in
a way that they were printed directly into formats like
legacy matter to what Rick was, and they have not
seen much play outside of Commander got it?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Okay, so they're bad. Seven seventy.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
The rank is seven seventy.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
So this one's interesting because every doctor can have a
companion in the command zone, which means that in order
for me to look up the rank, I have to
also add a companion. But there's a bunch of different
companions you can have. So the rank that I'm given
it is probably a little higher than the rank that
I is given because there's like other companion pairs that said,

(44:30):
I don't think you got there. The rank is one
thousand and six. Oh, I was being generous. Apparently you
throw in the other companions. Maybe you're like eight point
fifty and it's closer. Maybe, but you know, if you
want the benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
On that, I should have gone like fourteen hundred to
be thematic hi retrospect as.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Similar to like what we talked about with tomb Raider.
How currently relevant is Doctor Who? Is a good question.
Now what you're looking at is David Tennant, who was
also a very pop pular doctor who really brought Doctor
Who to America in the late twenty tens I believe
is around when that went off. He was really popular,

(45:09):
so popular that for the first time they brought a
doctor back to play the Doctor again for some holiday
specials that aired right around the time the Secret Layer
went on sale. How about that? Right? Interesting? Interesting? That
was planned? Ye weird he did. He did a couple
holiday episodes, then passed the Doctor Batona onward to a

(45:30):
different doctor whose card was also featured in this Secret Layer.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Fourteen dollars, fourteen dollars stick it with the theme.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I'm so happy about this? So how does all this
stuff work? Like? What actually? What actually makes something worth
money in this sense? Right? Who knows? This seems like
this isn't a super popular commander, but it was only
printed in this Secret Layer, and the price has only

(46:04):
gone up and up and up and right now, if
you want the fourteenth Doctor, it costs one hundred and
five dollars. What this is the most That's the expensive
card you've seen, by far.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I thought for the memes, people just want to keep
this at a fourteen dollars card like that just seemed
like logical to me. I think it is the most
expensive card you've gotten.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
That's incredible, not even the super popular commander. But it's
kind of the power of niche fandom, right, because this
was a limited supply. By the way, this is when
they changed their printing strategy, so now it was just
there's only so many of these and then they're gone.
So that now you see the effects of that. See
how tomb Raider hasn't really gone up chun Lee hasn't

(46:51):
really gone up. Fourteenth Doctor to the Moon because they
can't make it anymore. They probably won't make it anymore.
Maybe maybe not. Don't take that as finance advice anybody
out there. I don't have control over this.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
But well, it's weird because you said learra didn't have
a reprint, right, yeah, not yet, but that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
But it was printed to demand, whereas the fourteenth Doctor wasn't.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Okay, okay, that's a big difference. Yeah, I should have
asked that. But the Doctor who fandom going strong.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, the people who really want the fourteenth Doctor. In
a way, they kind of have to have it because
it's the only way to put all your doctors in
the same deck because it can represent all the colors
that the doctors were printed in. So that's another like
little point. But it Welcome to the new era of
Secret Layer. And then and then enter the Marvel era.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Oh God, Captain America first Avenger, He's a red, white
and blue for a four to four, which is conveniently overstated.
Throw for three. You could unattach an equipment from Captain America.
He deals damage equal to the equipment's men of value
by it as your use among one, two or three targets.

(48:02):
Very fitting considering what he does, and then catch at
the beginning of combat on your turn attached up to
one target equipment control two Captain in America. Interesting. Well,
after my experience with cloud, I have a clouded perception
about equipment based commanders.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
You love equipment. Anybody get different?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
I do not. I do not. I have definitely passed
on that one. Hmm. You have to be three for it.
It's neat because it like turns equipment into removal without
going into combat. Like that's cool. And the fact that
you get to just attach something for free to him
at the beginning of combat is also neat. And you

(48:43):
can I'm assuming you could do this like mid combat, right,
so you can go like two combat he attaches something,
and then in combat before you attack, can you like
pay three to just like hit stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
You can. You can't attach it again, but yeah, you
can use row ability at instant speed.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, you could also attack and then throw as well.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Most equipment is good in combat attached to your creature.
So yeah, I would say the general play pattern is
to hit while holding equipment, then do damage to other
things later.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah. And I've seen a lot of really good equipment
cards in your game, which is funny because in you
yoke like equipped cards are really bad. Hmm, this is interesting. Indeed,
people probably love Okay, has he been reprinted?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Nope? This is a This is getting relatively recent in
terms of secret layers. I believes came out last Fall
or Christmas.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Oh okay, I feel like he's too bad. I feel
like I've seen worse cards today. Let's go with two thirty.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Rank two thirty yep, even higher for Marvel and the
first Avenger. This is rank one eight.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Oh okay, all right, pretty, it's the ballpark.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
It is all park there. Yeah, at least you didn't
guess like five hundred. No.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
I think this is actually like pretty decent, just because
it's like it's removal on a body and it's like
a cool thing you can do with your equipment, like
I see it. Uh, So this hasn't been reprinted? Was
it printed demand or limited supply?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Print?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
To limited supply, print to limited supply, Thank you. People
really love Marvel, Like if we're talking about the ips specifically,
I think this might be the strongest ipe you showed
me so far. Has it been reprinted, printed to limited supply,

(51:10):
got the Marvel tax on it?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
No reprint, secret layer was same price as the other
as you've seen thirty nine or forty nine.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
It's got to be about the fourteenth Doctor. I refuse.
It's fucking Captain America. People love Captain America.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
One he's I mean, he might be on his way,
but right now you can get one for I'm sorry,
CMO forty three dollars for Captain America. The first Avenger.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Games so much, I'm never gonna get it. I'm good
at figuring out the power scale, but pricing is just
like apparently not in my ability range.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
It's really difficult, dude, I don't. I mean, I would
guess love Captain America. How is that team? I would
guess they printed a lot more Captain America than the
Fourteenth Doctor. But how do we know they both sold out?
Like they've both sold out very quickly. This was a
very controversial release, but maybe it's because of some of

(52:11):
the other cards in that same secret layer. Do you
want to see them? Oh?

Speaker 2 (52:16):
God, I bet you now have a choice. I'm stuck here,
so Storm force of Nature for context. I know like
nothing about marble, so I don't know who any of
these people are. One green of Balloe and red for
a flying Visulance three four and it has ceaseless tempest
whenever Storm deals combat damage to a player the next

(52:38):
instant or sources you spell you cast this turn has
storm whenever you cast it, copy it for each spell
cast before it. Oh that's really fucking good. This might
be the best card you've shown me so far. Same
secret layer, so limited quantity, you can't I'm assuming this
hasn't been reprinted.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yes, corrected?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Wife who tax going on? Oof?

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Well, first you gotta rank it.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I do have to rank it. What did you say,
Captain America? Was it was like one something?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I just had it on screen one thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
One thirty eight. Thank you. I think this is better
than that. I think this might break into double digits.
This car seems very good. Does it trigger multiple times?

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Does it trigger multiple times?

Speaker 2 (53:31):
So like if you if you have a way to
like double strike this.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Or multiple combats.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Or multiple combats. Yeah, oh yes, it stacks. Oh that's crazy. Yeah,
and you're in red too, so that's not hard to do.
Oh yeah, this car's like probably like seventy three or something.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Is that what you're going with?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I mean it, it's very high, but it's not quite
in the top hundred. It's one hundred and seven, but
you're just above Captain America. You're getting the vibes. You're
catching the vibes for sure.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
This card seems very good though. This, Like I said,
I think this is the best card you've shown me.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, she's the rank. She's pretty busted. She's pretty busted.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Maybe this is the one fifty card I have.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
I have given Storm to as a deck to players
who have never played a quote storm deck before, like
a spell combo deck, and they just win by accident,
Like whoa what that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
It's funny because it's like you can make the argument
is that a good thing or a bad thing? But
it's commander, So like, who cares? We're not playing competitive here.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I think I'm gonna go in the hundreds again. Do
I go one to fifty? Maybe I'll go one twenty.
I'm gonna go one twenty. I'm gonna be a bit
more conservative. But I think this card is very good.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
I really think you're right. And this is the thirty
seven dollars card. What this card's crazy?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
How seven dollars?

Speaker 1 (55:00):
No, I mean, I guess that's a good thing that
it's not that expensive. But like what, in Igo, this
would be like one hundred plus straight up. Don't give
him ideas. Yeah, I mean, combine it with Captain America though,
And you're already well above the price of the Secret Layer.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
That's true, So like you know, in that sense, you
know you got your money's worth. But I can't believe
it's that cheap. That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, and there are three more commanders in that Secret Layer.
But we can do we can do another one.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Okay, all right, Wolverine, I kind of know this guy best.
There is what a red and a green for two
to two with unrivaled lethality double all damage he would
deal and then at the beginning of each end step
if it dealt damage another creature of this turn, put
a post on post on counter on him, and then
you can regenerate him. I don't know if you've ever
showed me regenerated, the next time you would be destroyed.

(55:53):
This turn said, tap him, remove him from combat, and
heal all damage on him.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Ah, not a big fan because he kind of only
just does stuff for himself.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Dude, you put equipment on him, he does double damage.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Know how I feel about equipment? You know how I
feel about How.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Can you not be excited by the way something something
you probably haven't seen much of. Magic has a lot of,
especially in green, like fight spells, where the creature does
its power to another creature and that creature does its
power to does its power back, And that's really what

(56:42):
this is built around. They're very popular in limited right,
and that's how you get this thing bigger is making
it fight a bunch of things to eighty to eighty
not bad, not bad, yep, still doing doing a little
better than you'd ex fact, I would say the Marvel
maybe the Marvel tax does a lot of the Marble

(57:05):
the best there is yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, he definitely seems like the worst of the three
though so far.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, So how much would you pay for your wolverine?
Best there is?

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Christ? I mean, after these other ones, I'm just gonna say,
like thirty dollars, and.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
It's thirty two dollars. So you're, who, maybe the best
I've ever done. You're now winning a pricing amazing. But
we may as well, we may as well finish the
let's see, we're gonna stay in the marbles. Well we can,
let's see, Yeah, we have time do all the marvels.
Why the hell did your video?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Your video? Iron Man Titan of Innovation three of balloon
a red for a four to four with flying in haste.
It's very red and blue. Genius industrialist. Whenever iron Man attacks,
create a treasure token, then you may sacrifice a non
creature artifact. If you do search your library for an
artifact car with the many vat equal to one plus

(58:00):
the artifacts Man of value put into the bathroom, tapped
and shuffle it. Create a treasure that sacrificed a non
creature artifact. So you could hypothetically just sack the treasure
because that's a non creature artifact.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yep. Then you go get a one man image of here, get.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Your soul ring.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Yeah, so good at this, You're so good at commander.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I've learned, I've learned one plus the sacrificed artifacts man
of value. It sucks that it has to be exact.
That's kind of annoying because that makes it a bit
more limiting. It comes and tapped, but like I mean,
I guess if you use your toll, your soul ring
turned five, you're probably still pretty happy about it. Yes,

(58:43):
so attack though, So it's not feeling it. Not feeling it.
I think like there's some cool stuff you can do
with this, but I think it's kind of narrow. Three forty.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Three oh eight not bad. Okay, yeah, yeap, you're picking
it up. You're picking up the vibes for sure. I
would also agree that Iron Man, while it's pretty powerful,
artifacts are generally a busted strategy. But like the I
would say, especially in Commander, like playing this more than
once a night probably gets exhausting of just like, okay,

(59:24):
I go find it can only be exactly this. So
I sacked this to go get this, and it becomes
very kind of defined, like you already you either already
know what you're getting. It's not too exciting after the first.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Sea linear yeah, very linear?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Yeah, So iron Man here, what do you think people
pay for Tony Stark this device that he built in
a cave out of scraps. Twenty five bucks, twenty one bucks. See,
oh you're getting totally getting Apparently, I just had to
get to the marvel stuff absolutely and get a few plates.

(59:59):
You had to get past the wife. Is that's true? Sirens?

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yeah, they use the Sirens song to lure me in
with their uh, with their pricing. Black Panther Wakandan King.
I actually did see this movie. It rocked Green and
a White for two to two with first strike survey
the realm. Whenever he or another creature enters, put a
postal postal counter on a land you control. That's interesting,
mine vibranium three man, I move all plus on postal

(01:00:25):
counters from target land to a creature. If one or
more counters are moved this way, you gain that much
life and draw card. Oh we like drawing cards. Oh yeah,
uh okay. So when he or another creature enters, so
turn two you play this. You put up one puzzle
pust one on the land, and then next turn you're
at three. You can move them to something. Just move

(01:00:49):
to him if you wanted to, and then you gain three. Wait,
you gain that much life, that much light to the
number of counters.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
It's one. Okay, you gain a life and draw card. Hmm,
are you impressed?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
This one's tough. You're in greens, you can in white,
so like you can play a lot of like really
just like cheap guys, and you play a bunch of guys,
you get a watch of post on post encounters and
at some point you just move them all. You only
draw one card. It's not like a card per counter.
That'd be insane. It just costs three.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Hmmm. Not a cheap activated ability.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
No, I mean you could do it on your opponent's
end step. I guess if you have like open manna,
So there's that gives you a way to just draw
cards like you draw two for the turn, but that
in your game that doesn't really matter. This is a
tough one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Ah, it seems fine. It's a long fine.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Not a lot of commanders that put plus one plus
on encounters on lands and then move them around. It's
a very it's a very different ability for magic.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I think that's why it's hard for me to evaluate it.
Three eighty five thirteen. This one that might have been
a little too weird of an ability for magic players
to try to maximize. I don't know. It's a strange
one too, because the idea that when this enters, you

(01:02:48):
put the counter on the land and then you pay
three to move it, and you're supposed to be mining vibranium.
So did they, like, did the every creature that showed
up put some vibranium in a lanth like go bury
some vibranium when they showed up? I don't know. I
guess yeah, I thought there was something I was missing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
I thought there was something I was maybe missing with
this one, so I was being a bit more generous
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But yeah, the big the big wow an.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Interesting availability, right, such an interesting ability?

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
The big wow is creature lands that already have the
counters on them. So I guess if you put like
nine plus one plus one counters on the ink Moth
nexus and then you infect someone, you still not exciting
though to most Commander players, I would say I was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
About to say, yeah, that seems like a way that
people would hate to lose.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
And all right, price.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
It might be the cheapest of the bunch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Fifteen twelve not bad, okay, not bad, not bad, not bad,
but all right, you survived Marvel the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Oh, the first they did multiple.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
They did well. Actually they've only done one more to date,
but we have to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Deadpool Trading card. Oh, this is gonna be hilarious. Two
a black and a red for a five to three.
It's a mutant mercenary hero. As he enters, you may
exchange his textbox and another creature is that's hilarious. At
the beginning of your upkeep, you lose three life, so
that means the opponent would lose three life and then
three man a sacrifice this creature. Each other player draws

(01:04:20):
a card. So if you want to get this is interesting.
We have cards like this in Yu gi Oh, not
that it exchanges textboxes, but like sort of where like
you give them something and it like negatively affects them
until they can get rid of it. On the field.
For people who know you gump, they give like lava
golum or like things like that. Ah, what an interesting effect.

(01:04:44):
Beginning of your upkeep, you lose through life sacrifices creature.
Each other player draws a card. I feel like, if anything,
you care about this more because it exchanges the textboxes
and the other two things are like whatever, like who cares?
Who can, but it's it's cool that you can. If
your opponent has something crazy, you can just theoretically take

(01:05:06):
it in quotes, and you're not taking the creature, you're
taking the textbox.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Yes, so yeah, think about commander, think about the opponent's commander.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I feel like people would just hate this card because
of that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Oh yeah, and now now if they actually want it
back in the command zone to kind of reset and
get their textbox back, they have to sack it, yeah,
or they lose three life for having it sitting around.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, the three life's pretty negligible, commander. I mean, like
eventually it adds up, but like that would take so
many turns.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
The three manna, honestly is what I found to be
the most frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Just like sure, it's like, depending on when this is played,
that almost could be like a turn skip in some
ways that you're like having to like use resources to
get this off your field so you can like play
the game. Here's an interesting question. Okay, you swapped the textboxes.
If Deadpool dies or the textbox is still swapped theoretically, yes, yeah,
that makes sense. Okay, if you reanimate.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
The Deadpool from there, it comes back normal. But the
other creature doesn't get its textbox back when Deadpool dies.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Right, if you reanimate it, you can you can do
multiple textboxes, right, uh huh okay, yeah, that's because then
it's like they're losing six life atturne and they have
to pay six to get rid of them, and you're
in Black. Black has plenty of like reanimation stuff. I'm

(01:06:40):
still not sold, though. I think it's like it's gimmicky
and fun for sure. Uh, fun for the right type
of person, obviously. I feel like a lot of people
would hate this three fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Uh you you underestimate how much people love Mayhem. This
is rank one nineteen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Wow. I was to be that high. I never would
have gone to the ones.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Wow. Okay, interesting, And the whole deck is like make
copies of Deadpool, bring Deadpool back from the dead, steal
more textboxes something you may have missed there we go,
Oh yes, is that saying it as Deadpool enters not
Deadpool enters, which means if Deadpool chooses the text box

(01:07:29):
of a creature on the field that has and enters
the battlefield ability, you get that trigger as well, so
you get.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
To oh that's interesting. Okay, Like that's the thing that
doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Also, because of that, you get around all kinds of
shit you should never get around, like protection from a
color or hex proof. Things that would normally defend the
commander or the creature don't defend it from Deadpool. It's
very it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
That's pretty that's actually like really interesting. Though. I feel
like because it's like yu Gio has like unique removal
effects like this too, and I think that's like actually
like good for the game.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
M hm, I frustrating, but I think it's I think
it's good. This is such an annoying card to play against.
Uh and it's also one of Gina's favorite commanders, so
I have some experience playing Oh my god it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Is Oh, so I get it. So you got you
gotta you gotta thorn to pick with a good old Deadpool.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Here, Deadpool had his own secret layer. The rest of
the secret layer was filled with cards with Deadpool art
on them that are basically shaples for the red black
color combination that kind of went right in the deck.
So what do you think a copy of Deadpool goes for?

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Has he been reprinted?

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Has not been reprinted?

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
What about retrained?

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Has not been reskinned. If you want to be stealing
tax boxes, this is one of the only cards they
can do it in the entire game.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
People like Deadpool too. Mm hmm, sixty bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I would have thought you'd be right. It's only twelve
dollars right now for a dead Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
So this is again like people really want to like
it's tempting, like you really want to criticize the business model.
But in some cases they made enough of the stuff.
Deadpool is one of those, and I will sympathize with
you for one moment and one moment only. It's really
hard to tell without looking at the price. How many

(01:09:31):
did Wizards print? We don't really know. I wasn't something
we have any visibility on, but the price is kind
of the only indicator, and it seems like everybody who
wanted their Deadpool got their dead Pool.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Dead Pool.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, and a twelve dollars card. Unbelievable for something that ranked.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
And that's something Yeah, I was about to say, especially
with how highly it was ranked. That's why I thought
it would actually have more demand. But apparently not interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Alrighty, We've covered Marvel, We've been through this several of
the universes beyond coming out a secret layer. There's one
more secret layer. I want to hear your thoughts on.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Oh God, here we go. Eh I love Sonic Sonic
the Hedgehog one a blue, a red, and a white
for a two four hedgehog. Okay, to be a hedgehog warrior,
that's fine. Does magic have hedgehogs? Otherwise? Out of curiosity
not the first thing I know of many warriors minimal
hedgehoggery day cause, like to be fair, I could see

(01:10:29):
an old magic, like really old magic. They made like
a green thing. That's like something hedgehog, right, I can
see it anyway. He has haste, which is very fitting
and gotta go fast. Whenever Sonic the Hedgehog attacks, but
a pustle pustle counter on each creature you control with
Flash or haste. Interesting. And then when a creature control
with flasher Haste is delt damage, create a tapped treasure token.

(01:10:51):
Whenever creature with flash or Haste is dealt damage, create
a tripped That's very funny because it's like the rings
coming out of him when you get hit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
That's cute.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
God flavors awesome on this?

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Is this good? Is the question for MANA for two
to four with Haste.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
The Fall behind the scenes. You messaged me the second
this kind of came out, so yeah, yeah, I knew
you were excited about this. This was kind of pointing
to the video as well for context.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I did not read them. I just saw it with
Sonic and I was like, oh my god, that rocks.
Uh So when he attacks, you put post a post,
streat your control with Flasher haste. That's before damage, right,
So technically he's a three five in that case.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Uh whenever, Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yep, okay, okay, at least.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
At least Yeah, obviously he can get bigger and then
whenever creature Jewel Flasher has is dealt damage created trapped
treasure token. I love my boy, Sonic. He is kind
of restrictive because it's like you need to have a
bunch of stuff with flash or Haste, which, to be fair,
you're in blue and red, so like that's not crazy
to think of if you can damage.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
It yourself, that tree to make treasure.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Yeah, because it doesn't have to be in combat. It's
just if he's dealt damage and he has four health,
so like there are things you could do that tapped
treasure token means you have to wait to use it.
You can do it multiple times, which is interesting. I

(01:12:22):
don't know. He he does seem a bit narrow though,
unless there's like something I'm missing, which there could be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
He also just landed like he just started in the mailbox.
So this is I like, I'm I'm questioning if I
even should make you guess. But it's a video, so
why the hell not? The why never lower? But I'm
giving you, I'm giving you a heads up. It just
came out. It's really hard to get a high rank
if you just landed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Right, I'm going pretty low with this one. I'm gonna
go like four.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Fifty six two, okay for Sonic the Hedgehog. He just
he just showed up, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
He just showed you. We'll see he's new. I'll check
it a month. I'll check the ratings in a month.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Price similar, similar caution just just just arrived. Yeps, Secret
layer fifty dollars, Secret layer.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Yep, just came out. We're in printed demand eraon now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Right, yep or no? This is still very much print
like limited supply.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
But okay, print limited how much?

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
So the question now becomes how much do you think
that Sonic they made. How much do you think they made?

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Like twenty five bucks?

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Maybe five dollars?

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Again, just landed, not sure. Why do you do that
to my boy? Why do you do that to my boy?
I think it's clear that Sonic is the we of
this secret layer. I think we should analyze. Uh, maybe
some different characters maybe, well, let's okay, let's try. Maybe
some different characters can bring up the price.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Hell yeah, doctor Eggman, two for a blue and a
black and a red. I like those colors three six
flyer at the beginning of your end step draw card.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
We like that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Then each opponent faces a villainous choice. They either discard
a card. You may put a construct robot or vehicle
card from your hand onto the bathlet. Ooh, that's cute.
There's probably a lot of broken stuff you can do
with that potentially, But they get to choose, and that sucks.
I wish you got to choose, because they probably just

(01:14:40):
discard the card.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
It's the same cost and colors as Kefka.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
I was saying. It's like it's like bad Kefka, that's
what this because so much better? Yeah, uh six point
fifty six.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
But yeah, the vibe. You're getting the vibe. Yeah, okay, okay, vibe.
He's new. He's yep, yep, yep. Ah. Ten dollars, four dollars,
Oh Jesus, all right, all right, people are not getting
their value out of the secret. We'll take We'll take
one more shot. We'll take one more shot. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Shadow double black, double red, very fitting. Uh. He has
haste of course as well. He's a four to two.
He's the opposite of sonic, which makes sense whenever another
creature you control with flash or Haste dies, draw card
interesting and then chaos control. Each spell you cast has
split second if manna from an artifact was spent to
cast it. Ooh, that's kind of cool. So you get

(01:15:41):
to turn all your rocks split second is your opponent
can't respond to it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Right, Yes, it's okay, it's it's faster. Instance five forty.
The rank on Shadow of the Hedgehog is six fifteen. Jeez, miserable.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I mean it's new, like, it's hard to get a
lot of dec it's hard to tell. Yeah, it's hard
to sell. Uh price tag ten bucks nailed it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Ten dollars whoa right on the money, actually right on
the money. Buddy good Job got the medal.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I don't know that it has like the Radical Highway
background too. This this is a sick card.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
This is cool. They are very cool. It definitely. I
don't know what this means for the future of Secret
Layers because the final Fantasy ones, the final Fantasy reeskins
of old cards sold out so fast and are really
yeah like it and it like crashed the site and
people who were there for hours didn't get their cards

(01:16:38):
and it was a huge story. But here we are
with uh, these the Deadpool and the Sonic Secret Layers,
and it looks like the people who want them are
getting them based on the pricing, which is really the
only clue we have. So uh is Secret layerheading in
a good direction or a crazy wrong direction? It's really
hard to say. It seems to go from from item

(01:16:59):
to item quite on this lea. And if wizards can
anticipate demand, do you have a Sonic I know you
love the Secret Layer. Do you have a one that
you would use as a commander? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Of the Sonic one, specifically, maybe the Shadow one. I
feel like the Shadow One is like probably the best of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
The three, is pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
It's pretty second like he was crazy. Absolutely, did they
make the Chaos emeralds by chance?

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Yes? But those are so those are hidden cards in
the Secret Layer. I remember I told you that there
would be hidden cards in some there's like a random yeah, so,
oh my god, you want right now?

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Okay, let's see it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Let's see just a second. I gotta find it because
these were just revealed. Sure, I was unprepared for this one.
Where to go?

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Okay, you didn't realize that I was such a sonic fan.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Okay, I'm gonna I got I got one to show you.
I got one to show you. Now. These are random
inserts in the secret layer.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
So sometimes you get, oh my god, that looks so
fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Are eight different? Eight different ones?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
So you always get one? Or is it you might
get one?

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
I believe it's you might get one. That's you might
get one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
Are they all reskins of Lotus pedal or they reskins
of different colors?

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
They are all Lotus pedals. Here's another one. I'll show you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
These are so I would so play with one of these,
these these rock I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
Know wait, I know which one you want to see? Now.
The reason you have scans here is because they just
got like the reason the reason they're called Secret Layer
is these are secret. You know, nobody knew about these,
so like these weren't revealed on a site the community.
Yeah yeah, yea, yeah yeah, so how much?

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Oh for these? They're random inserts and good hard? I know,
I played with it. Uh, the random inserts one in seven?
There a one in seven or one in eight because
there's seven emeralds.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
There's so there's eight different cards that I'm seeing here, Okay,
or no, it is seven. You're right. I was gonna
say there's seven Chaos emerals should be said, But I
don't think that they know if there's another card.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
They could have done the Master Emerald too, But I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
Don't know the odds of getting one in a pack,
which I know is very relevant to guessing this. But
I don't know the answer to that question. Sure, I
mean fifty bucks fifty bucks? Uh, the Blue Ones two
hundred and twenty bucks right now, that's crazy

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Ep. 25 - YugiOh player ranks Universes Beyond cards (feat. Cimoooooooo)

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