Ep. 34 - Cimoooooooo and I Talk Worlds | Magic World Championship 31

The Magic: The Gather World Championship 31 just happened so its time Cimo and I discussed the decks, the drama and more.

If you'd like to see the video version of this podcast, check it out here!

Credits
Written and performed by Daniel Wagner, aka CovertGoBlue
Edited by Roman Milan
Logo design by HolyMTG - [e-mail] Twitter @HolyMTG
© CovertGoBlue Entertainment, LLC

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The cover Go podcast is now on iHeartRadio, Spotify, and
Apple Podcasts, and is proudly sponsored by cool stuff ink
dot Com. Use the promo code cgb pod at check
out to get a discount and show your love for
the audio version of the show. Do Do Do You Do?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Do You Do? Do Do?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Dude?

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Covid podcast. See Yo, you ready to go?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
You really gotta do that in a minute. You haven't
got to do.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Gotta let it out, gotta do it in the total
hype mode because today we are talking about the Magic
the Gathering World Championships that happened last weekend. Oh yeah,
current events. Does Yugo still have a world championship?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Of course we do. What do you mean do we
have a world championship?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't know anything about your game, but that's not
something to be offended about. I don't know much about
your competitive Let me make sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Let me take let me take over your video here.
How much does the first place winneror win winning the
Magic World Championship?

Speaker 1 (01:12):
I almost I almost got to a minute without you
taking over the video. By the way, congression, that's fine,
that's fine. How much does first place win? Do you
want to guess.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's gonna get sad no matter what I say.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Fire a fire a shot. What what's the to be
the best in the world at Magic? The gathering? Do
you think it's worth fifty thousand dollars? Double it one hundred?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
We got one.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Hundred thousand dollars for first place in the Magic World Championships.
That's right, that's right, that's right. So your game? What
do you? What do you? What do they get?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Anyway? Uh So, we're talking about the World Champampionship of
Magic today, aren't we.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
No no, no.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
No no no no no no no no no no
no no, no, no no no.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I gotta know.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now you open the door, it's time to walk through it.
How much the World Championship it? I have to guess, Okay,
I have to guess.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Maybe, I guess it's only fair.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Sure, sure, sure, given the massive respect that I have
for you Yo as a game and Konami as a corporation,
I'm gonna go with a five hundred dollars gift card
to a DCG shop.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I think you're five hundred dollars over? Are you serious? Yep?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Nothing?

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Uh So. The the money, if you will, is that
there are prize cards specifically for the world champion and
competitors and so by a third party. Not that anyone
would ever sell their World Championship prize card like what
that that would be unthinkable?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
That would that be sacrilegious? Is that one taboo? Are
they not supposed to?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yes? Anyway, Well what's going on?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
It's so coast.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Those World's cards can fetch uh pretty pennies, pretty pennies.
Oh sure? Are we getting into like six figure territory
like with Magic? It's hard to say because like I'm
not really in the know on the uh the world's
prize card market. I imagine it's at least in the
five figures if you were to sell.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
One, well, you know, just putting it out there in
our game Magic the Gathering in addition to one hundred
thousand dollars, one of the coolest trophies you will ever see.
Let me look up a picture for the Black Lotus trophies.
Show that thing. Oh my god. You also, just just
because you're the champion, get put on a Magic card.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Oh that's sick. That's really cool.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yep, in a future set and you get to advise
on its design. I'm showing you Duelist of the Mind,
which is Nathan Steyer's World Ampion card, and you can
see at the bottom it even says who you are
and what event you won.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Do you get to like pick the card or like
how does that work?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's unclear how the sausage is perfectly made, but you
definitely get like some behind the scenes access and advice
on how, how and what the card does. Several players
have mentioned in the past that you know, they wanted
it to do a certain thing, but that was too good,
you know stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, of course, of course that's really cool. Though, that's cool.
I think, oh god, I want to say, way back
in the day, you gi oh. I think like this
is when it was still like Japan, like before we
even had it in the States. I think they done
they did something similar with someone who won like one
of the I don't know if it was really the
World Championship at that point, but I think there are
like some like very rare cards that have like a

(04:50):
a player on them, which is kind of cool. So
I like when they do stuff like that. I think
it's neat.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah, love for the players, right something something at
least through the years, Competitive Magic has done well going
back to the very early days of like the Invitational,
that you used to be able to open a pack
and there would be a trading card, like just a
token type card of a pro player. Right, It would

(05:17):
just be a dude in there, and it wasn't like
a card you played in the game, but it was
like a like a if they had a baseball card, right,
what it would be like. They used to just have
those impacts. They also used to sell commemorative additions of
their decks, really cool stuff that they've done through the
years for people who win at the highest level in magic.
So all of you getting abused by the Yugio system,

(05:39):
just so you know, just so you know it can
be better. Anyway, What does the World Championship of Magic
have to do with you? You might be asking, I'm going
to be showing you cards from the most popular decks.
You are going to be rating them, telling us what
you think of them, talking about them. But there isn't

(06:00):
the question of whether or not these cards made it
into the World Championship. They did that. All of these
are from decks in the World Championship. You're going to
try to help us guess one the metagame percentage of
these three decks that I'm going to show you the
win rates of these decks and you're gonna guess how
many copies got in the top eight. So we're gonna

(06:23):
do that. At the end, I'm gonna show you.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
You're gonna remind You're gonna have to remind me of
all that at the end.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
But all that's gonna come up at the end. I'm
gonna piece together three different decks for you and you're
gonna kind of react and see if you can see
what they're putting down, and then we're gonna guess how
well they did. So this is gonna be fun. The
latest set for those of you depending when you listen
to this is Avatar the Last Airbender. Yep, that's a

(06:50):
magic set, and that and the VV. The VV world
has been banned at this point. Several cards got banned,
including the so vv's Reign of Dominance Yes, Final Fantasies
VV Yes. Also a magic card has has come to
an end as of the time of this World Championship.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
So there you go for context before before we get
into it, I just wanted to show you what one
of our our you know, Yu gi oh cards looked
like with one of the players as one of the car.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh good, let's see wait that okay, okay, that's how
they get art on the card. Huh. Well, I guess
if you're gonna take your average card gamer and you
gui FI them, this makes sense. I guess what what

(07:42):
do What does the community think of this? Uh?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's kind of weird. It's it's like a it's like
a not really like well known piece of the game's history.
So I don't think people really have like much of
an opinion on it.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, fair enough. I'm just curious if they think it's,
you know, a cool flattering image thing, if it's something
that they really want her stuff like that. Just curious.
All right, let's get into it. I'm gonna start out
by showing you the air Bending deck, which is the

(08:15):
most avatar of the decks, so it's gonna be a
fun one to show.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
And then I get to remember, if you've already seen
this card, you don't have to go over the whole
thing again, because we did our preview show and I'm
sure some of these you've already seen.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Hey, aang actually saw play.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I'm so happy. I think you nailed it on this one, Like, yeah,
I thought this card was really good. Yeah, so I'm
glad it's all played. The World Championship, it's a ang swift.
Savior won a white and blue for a flash flying
human avatar ally legendary and when it enters you get
to airbend up to one other target creature or spell

(08:53):
and then you can water bend for eight to transform him.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yep, he turned out to be a very useful piece
in a number of number of ways, like ever since
he launched in standard, just the way that we saw
it as this cool tempo hit was good. But something
I know that we missed. I may have missed. I'll
go that way. Something I may have missed.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Something you don't get to say very often, yeah, is
that this.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Is a legal card and standard as well.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Doc orlock Grizzled Genius green and a blue for a
bear druid that's a typing Spells you cast from your
graveyard or from exile costs to oh huh yeah yeah
yeah free free, we like free, we like free.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah yeah, recast anything you want for free with airbn rocks.
Yeah yeah, oh it rocks. It rocks quite a bit.
And then when you combine it with more avatar goodies.
Did I show you this card?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
This doesn't look familiar. It's Appa Steadfast Guardian two and
two white for a bison ally. That's very funny. Where's
where's bison tribal? Which also is flashing flying.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Give it time, dude, everything. We'll have a tribal deck.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
When it enters airbend any number of other target non
land permanents you control whoa that's crazy, and then when
you cast a spell from exile, create a one to
one white ally creature token. Oh, this is just like
crazy value. Wow.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
So play it out. If you have a DOC and
you have an Aang and you have an Opa, what happens?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I mean you're basically just you're just playing everything for free, right.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
So if Apa air bends Ang and Aang air bends Apa, yes, yeah,
on the spot on the spot infinite.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's so funny because as crazy and like nuts as
Yu gi Oh is, it's like the term infinite is
just something that we don't have. So it's like I
always have to remember that's a thing in your game.
But that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
It's right there. You have infinite tokens and you have
infinite air bends. Infinite air bends also means infinite creature
casts and infinite creatures entering the battlefield triggers. Also, they
both have flash, so you can go off and do
this at flash speed instant speed on your opponent's turn
or your turn. You can do it on your turn,

(11:31):
then do it again on the opponent's turn if, like say,
they do one damage to all one ones or something. Sure,
and at the end of the cycle you finish with
one of these in exile and still free, which means
like the Ang can then protect the combo by airbending
the opponent's like spell that they might cast to blow
everything up if they try, and they.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Plan this in design like when they were play testing.
Do you think this is intentional? I'm just curious, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I hope not, but maybe, maybe, maybe I will give
you a hint that the Avatar the Last Airbender is
one of the most power crap push sets I've ever seen,
similar to Final Fantasy. Earlier this year, Final Fantasy was
also like just insane across multiple formats, Like Avatar is

(12:22):
right there, I don't know which is the more powerful set.
Avatar is still pretty new, but I'm going to show
you these decks. They're all going to rely on avatar cards. Like,
it's kind of wild the impact they've had just off
the rip, just straight up showing up, throwing down the
gauntlet to everybody and everything. Let me show you another

(12:43):
car that gets to go in this deck. That seems
pretty pedestrian. See what you can that.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
I feel vindicated, all right. Bramble familiar what it agreed
for an elemental wreck? Okay? Sure, uh it is. Oh,
it's one of these cards. Okay, so it has the
its main line text, it's a two to two is
you tap an add a green, so it's a man
of dork and then one in a green tap discard

(13:11):
a card return Bramble familiar to its owner's hand, okay,
and then it's fetch quest is a sorcery for five
and two green mil seven cards. Then put a creature,
enchantment or land card from among them milled cards onto
the battlefield. Hmmm mm hmmmm.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Is wondering why are you showing me this?

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I am wondering why you're showing me this like it
like it doesn't seem bad. I'm just like, give me
some helpier, give me some help here.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Okay, if how do you think Bramble Familiar acts if
you air bend it?

Speaker 2 (13:53):
How does Bramble Familiar act if you air bend it?
Oh my god? Can you airbend the sorcery the fetch quest?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
You can air bend the Bramble Familiar off the field
and then cast the fetch quest for two man.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Two zero or zero if you have the guy that's
so crazy? Okay, all right, I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
So if you are trying to assemble a three creature combo,
you probably want cards in your deck that help you
find those cards.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Matt would be a good one.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's pretty good to get. A seven man of Sorcery
for two zero or zero zero is a good for
that as well. It's sure on top of that, Aang
wasn't done. Aang is still showing up for work. Yeah, yeah,
AG's not finished with the job here.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Aang at the crossroads. I don't think you showed me
this one to a green, a white, and a blue,
which is fitting because that's all the colors you showed
me so far. Has flying now no flash on this one.
When it enters the the top five cards of your library,
you might put a creature card with mana value four
less from among them onto the battlefield. Oh good, so
we have even more redundancy. Man, this look like a
Ugio deck. This is great. And then the battlefield transform

(15:12):
ang at the beginning to your next upkeep which I
get sure, but I think you play this for the
first part.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Okay, all right?

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Should I look at the back or is the front
all we care about here?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
The back is not a bad card, but it doesn't
really matter here. It can help you win the fair game.
I guess.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, it's flying land creatures have vigilance at the beginning
combat earth bend too. Oh yeah, okay, whatever, who cares? Yeah,
we're just playing this for more digging. We're more digging
and just to uyi o fi this even more nature's rhythm.
Cool art x and double green for a sorcery. Search

(15:47):
your library for a creature card with man of value
x or less put onto the battlefield than shuffle. Hell yeah,
all right, we're just playing all the This does seem
like a ugi O deck. This is cool.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
To build your build your own combo, make infinite one
ones and interact with your opponent using ang Swift Savior.
You get kind of the gist here of what bant
airbending is all about. So people were wondering because this
was happening very early on, like right when we were
doing the Creator Clash events, the early access events where

(16:21):
all the content creators play against other content creators, and
the world's competitors were all invited to this too, so
I might have played against some world's competitors as well.
This was everywhere. People were absolutely doing this combo on
day one. Oh and it oh oh, it is not
a fun combo to sit there and watch on arena
where you can't just say I make five hundred allies.

(16:44):
You actually won by one by one by one, just
keep resolving it. And then the first time you actually
realized that when they passed to you, they now have
an ang Swift Savior face up as whatever spell you cast,
they're also just going to airband that spell and it's
not gonna resolve. Is like the extra kick in the teeth.
It's so bad, dude, It's so brutal goodness.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Crazy yep, so cool.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah. I mean, like I said, if we're gonna attract
some Yugio players to the game here, this might be
the way to do it. Just assemble your combo and
laugh at your opponent who doesn't have one. So that's
one of the This is one of the what I'm
going to show you are the top three metadecks from
this event. You're and then you're gonna kind of put
those in order to right in the future. Yep. So

(17:32):
this is one of them. Let me show you another.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
I like it, very Ugio inspired.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Already already in love. I love I love that we
get to start from here Grand.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Okay, for context, I ever saw Avatar, so I don't
really aside from like knowing aang just from like you know,
pop culture, that's really like all I know. Uh. It
is a blue legendary creature human peasant ally a one
to two whenever Grand Grand becomes tapped draw card, than
discard a card, okay, and then non creature spells U

(18:06):
cast cost one less to cast as long as there
are three or more lessons in your graveyard. Okay. I
think I remember we talked about the Avatar cards at first,
there were like lessons matter cards, but I don't think
you showed me this one.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, this is an interesting one. The first time it's
played against you, you're like, that's cute, But what do
you like? What do you think of it to give?
I will show you some lessons in a minute. The
general gist un lessons is that they are cheap spells
that do reasonably good things. Yeah, they do fine things,

(18:42):
not broken, just fine.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah. I mean, if there's like a lessons matters sort
of deck, I mean, this seems like it would be
like a nice staple for that. There's not really a
way to tap grand grand just to get like the
draw discard unless there's like a lesson that can do
that potentially, and then maybe there's some combo shenanigans there,
But she doesn't have a way to do it herself
aside from like, you know, just attacking. I guess, but

(19:09):
I guess if you have multiple of this because it's cheap,
then like the lessons all become free, right because if
you just get the if you heat, if you meet
the threshold on lessons, then uh then it's like they
become two less or three less. So then like maybe
there's some shenanigans to be had there. So it seems, uh,
seems pretty good on paper.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
She is a legendary creature, so you can only you
can't just replace grand Grand. You can only have one
grand Grand.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Sorry, sorry, how can I be so soon?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
But there might be other ways to get the effect
that we'll get to. I'm also just gonna I'm gonna
spam some lessons at you. You don't have to read
all of these. We're gonna put them on screen as well.
They all generally are like kill a thing, right, Okay,
it kind of like one does two damage, but can
deal five if you pay four extra. One does damage

(20:00):
your number of lessons in your graveyard plus two and
then yep, yep, one is a counter unless they pay
two more. So okay, you can imagine all of these
getting their cost reduced is good, and that you could
play all these in a format that had a lot
of creatures pretty comfortable. Sure.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
And notably, these are all like one and a color,
so like if you have grand Gran out and then
you meet the threshold, then they all just become you know,
half price essentially, So that's that's pretty significant.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yep, those are pretty good. Now I'm going to introduce
you to another lesson might matter a little.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Okay, Accumulate wisdom, another very cheap lesson that becomes even
cheaper one in a blue for a instant lesson. Look
the top three cards in your library. Put one of
those cards into your hand, and the rest on the
bottom of your library in any order. Put each of
those cards into your hand instead. If there are three
or more lesson cards in your graveyard, the fuck So

(20:57):
this is white Wait wait, hold on, this is this
is draw three. And then if you have uh, if
you have grand Grand and you meet the threshold, then
it only costs one to draw three. That seems insane,
that seems nuts.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
As one snuck into the into the spoilers, Wow, yeah,
I wish I'd shown you. I wish I had shown
you this lesson pot of greed a little sooner.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
This is this is way better than that.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
It's draw three. It's not even draw two.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
As they mentioned maybe a few times on the broadcast
over the weekend, we have a card called Ancestral Recall
in magic history. It's banned in everything and everywhere, and
it's a member of the power nine. So if I
showed it to you, it was a long time ago.
And yeah, this one man draw three. That's that's the come.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
That's basically what this is like hearkening back to Essentially,
it's like build your own ancestral recall.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sure, yeah, yeah, they put that in the format in standard.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
That's fine. What could possibly go wrong? What going wrong?

Speaker 1 (22:02):
How could that be bad? So as long as you
can get lessons in your graveyard and I've shown you
a number that just kill basically kill creatures and it
just kills the opponent.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, which also buys you time to get to your
win condition.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah, And then you have a grand grant.
You have this, and you have draw three. This it's
not bad.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Wow, not bad. That seems that seems pretty good. I'm
not gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
So when you have that going, okay, now you can
stop the opponent's plays or at least delay them pretty good.
Like quench is in a permanent counterspell. Eventually the opponent
will play enough lands that they can pay for a quench.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Sure, you'll kill.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Their small creatures, but they might play something more resilient
in the future. So we got to get our opponents dead,
all right, so win. Yeah. So there were a few
different versions of the deck that showed up, and I'm
not going to overquiz you on this version of that version,
but I'm just going to show you some different cards
from the version. If you want to tell me what
you think is good, could be fun. So here is

(23:03):
a card that is just legal, has just been in
this format.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
What the fuck is this? Eddie Murk crab five and
two blue for an elemental crab? Of course? Why not
it has flash? Because, of course it does. It costs
one less to cast for each incident sorcery card in
your graveyard. Oh convenient? What are all the lessons? Huh?
It enters tapped if it's not your turn. It enters

(23:30):
tapped if it's not your turn, enters tapped if it's okay.
So if you flash it in, it's tapped. Got it okay?
I don't know why. That was hard for me to understand.
And then when it enters, you tap up to two.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Oh now we have a way to tap Grand Grand.
How convenient?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Oh yeah, I think that.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Would you look at that? Oh, it's just all coming
together now, interesting? Interesting, interesting, interesting.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
I'm sure that somebody has tapped Grand Grand with this.
It's much more likely that you tap the opponents stuff. Yeah,
I bet them to death. But that is really funny
that you went right there.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I was just looking for the way to draw more cards,
you know, because apparently accumulate wisdom wasn't enough cards for
me to draw.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
We are the same person. Yeah yeah, apparently Grand Grand
likes to be tapped by crabs.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Apparently that's that's just the.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Way, you know what. There you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's what she's into. Hey, so be it.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
But we're not done learning our lessons.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Let me show you another one boomerang basics. I think
you may have showed me this, but let me give
it a read here blue for this is a sorcery,
so it's on instant return target, non land, permanent to
its owner's hand. If you controlled that permanent draw card.
Oh so you just keep bouncing your own crab back,
recasting it, retapping stuff down. Oh that seems pretty good.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it's good value, right there, that's pretty good value. Yeah,
good value. And another another staple we'll say is this.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Card storm Chase talent. This is a one blue for
an enchantment class. So when you play it, when it's enters,
you create a one to one blue and red otter
creature token with prowess. Okay, prowess is when you cast something,
it gets like plus one plus one for the turn.
That's right, okay, and then level two you pay three

(25:19):
in a blue. When this becomes level two return target,
it's your sorcery card from your grave out to your hand.
And then leuble three is five in a blue. Whenever
you cast an instant of sorcery spell, create a one
to one blue red otter creature token with prowess, but
notably with the Boomerang basics, you could just keep bouncing
back the storm Chaser's talent and keeps summoning more and
more otters with prowess, and because you're playing a deck

(25:39):
that has all these instants and stuff, they just become
fat otters to just like kill your opponent. Is that
what I'm getting at here?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, they're basically it's when basically, when combined with boomerang basics,
you're looking at an endless stream of one to one
otters that are actually attacking as like three threes or
four fours because you're right, whole deck triggers it. Yeah,
that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
That is So these were two These were not all
played in the same deck like some played the Crab,
some played the odd.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Uh No, most everything you've seen here is played in
the same deck so far.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Oh sorry, sorry, I thought you said there was like
some differences.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
There is, I'm about to show it to you.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh okay, I was getting ahead of myself.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
So there the crab is super popular some and this
one did see some play, and it has seen play
in the past in various decks, so it was a
bit of a known entity in the format. But then
there's this.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Card Monument two endurance cool art three man a four
an artifact. Whenever you discard a card, choose one that
hasn't been chosen this turn. You either draw a card,
create a treasure token, or each opponent loses three life
whenever you discard a card. Hmm, aside from grand grand,

(27:02):
what is discarding a card?

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Well, it would be nice, right if maybe you got
to discard a card every time you cast a lesson.
That would be a pretty cool card to have in
it for this type of deck with't it.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I imagine there might be something coming that I haven't seen yet.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, imagine.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Artists talent to another class. This one's one in a red.
Whenever you cast a non creature spell, you may discard
a card if you do.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Drunk.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh, it's like they just drew it up. It's like
they just give you everything you complain about, yu gi oh,
giving you everything that you want. This is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's not bad. Oh remember when we could
only have one grand grand read read read chapter two.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Oh I didn't get to that point. Non creature spells
you cast have level or excuse me, non creature spells
you cast cost one less to cast perfect because why
not have more reduction? Why not just have more reduction
while we're at it, because that's so necessary?

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Right, that's that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, pretty good. Yeah, so you get the gist of this.
If every lesson is also a discard draw is also
fueling your draw three, is also removing something or is
also dealing three damage to your opponent. You got a
little yeah, fun little machine here. What do you think
of this? What do you think?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
So is monument the is that like the actual win
con is that eventually you just drain your opponent.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
One deck is on crab Boomerang and the other deck
is on artist Talent and monument to Endurance. Okay, so
those are the two kind of paths for the deck.
Do you have an opinion of what you think is
the better path?

Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a good question. I want to say the monument
version might be better because like, why would you care
about interacting with your opponent, just like just I'm sorry.
You get a player brain here, Like, if you have
the means to just kill them without interacting with them,
then just do it that way, Like why go through

(29:09):
the effort? So just burn them to death. I don't know.
That seems like the path of least resistance to me,
but what do I know.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, I'll tell you more of the breakdown when we
get to like, yeah, sure figuring out the final numbers,
because it is interesting that some people like they they
found almost the same deck, but they went two very
different roads in the endgame. It does give you a
It does give you a hint that it was a
good deck, that the raw shell got the job done

(29:38):
for a lot of people. Yeah, there's a number of people.
But the endgame could be different and still succeed.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's kind of wild, I think, to be fair. The
Boomerang Crab version, like it does give you, I guess,
a bit more defense, right because you can just keep
tapping your opponent stuff down and then they theoretically can
never hit you. Where like the Monument version doesn't really
have that same sort of resilience in a way, because
I mean, at that point, you're relying on your other
cards to be able to hold them off from killing you.

(30:04):
So I guess I can sort of see the argument
for both ways, but I'll be curious to see what
the end result was.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
All Right, That is your is It Lessons pile. The
other one was your bant Ban is the green, blue
and white color combination Ban Airbending pile. So going into
our third pile that we're going to check out, this
one is kind of got elements of both. So I'm

(30:30):
going to start by laying you know it runs Boomerang
Basics and Stormchaser's Talent, So assume that those are all
in the deck already, because that's an insanely good combination
of cards that probably should exist. There is another card
that is in the Ban Airbending deck I haven't shown
you yet that is also in this team or Otters
deck we're about to do. I'm going to show that

(30:52):
to you now you might remember it.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh, my favorite cub I was wondering when you were
gonna show.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Up, Badger mule fucking cub.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Everyone loves the cub I was surprised that this wasn't
running rampant all over the place. I'm glad you are
showing it to me. Yep, I remember the cub, Yeah,
I remember. My reaction to this was just like I
was like offended that they printed this card and.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
You were insanely right because in the very first streamer event,
I don't think I was even an hour into that
event before I had already seen multiple opponents with ten
mana on turn three. Yes, so awesome, Oh my god, yeah,
it's so it. There are ways to like copy this
for just two mana in the format.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Uh oh, that's crazy, so that you yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Me either, or I showed you some of the tutors,
like Nature's Rhythm, right is in the formats. You can
just go search like it turns out searching for Badger
Mole cub for four or five mana using Nature's Rhythm
or Arc Druid's Charm is still busted, which means this
card should have been a four or five minute.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Cards exactly still get played, which is insane. That's insane,
like when you think about power scaling, that's nuts unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
All right, so let me show you more of this
deck that's titled a Teamer Otters. It's also kind of
a combo deck as all of these in many ways
are they can win with traditional attacking. All of these
can they can beat you down with otters or whatever
creatures they have, or they can make a combination that
just ends the game. Check this out.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Teamer is a red green Blue.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Nailed it A plus.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Okay, I'm still learning. I'm still learning, all right. This
is enduring Vitality one and two green for an enchantment
creature elk Glimmer three three with the vigilance creatures you
control have tap ad one man of it up. Awesome,
great because that that's exactly what we needed. That's a
pair that with the cub perfect that's exactly what we need.

(32:55):
And then if it dies, if it was a creature,
return it to the battlefield under its own control. It's
an enchantment. Interesting, so it's an enchantment creature and then
it comes back and then it becomes an enchantment So
then it becomes I imagine it is enchantment like removal
not really like too common to come by.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Creature removal is incredibly common to come by. Enchantment and
artifactor removal are both more difficult.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Right right, Okay, so then you just get the you
just you just get the value anyway, not to mentione
the stacks, because why not. If you have multiple that's great.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
The Enduring Vitality does give the ability multiple times to creatures,
but they can only tap it for one.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Oh okay, it does. It's not as crazy, it's not
as crazy as it could be, but it's still pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
The cub stacks, the cubs stacks, the cub stack. Yeah,
when you have more cubs stacks, kind of insane, so
badgerom mold Cub is also in the air bending deck,
along with a bunch of like landour elves man shot
for man to be in. Yeah. In the otter deck,
the cub doesn't go with other mana dorcs. It just

(34:05):
has Enduring Vitality with it too. Basically on its own,
of course, it's a very awesome card. But then when
you combine with Enduring Vitality, every creature now taps for
mana double manna right double, essentially sickening sickening. Then you
know what, there's enough otters running around. Let's keep working

(34:25):
with some otters.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Valley Flood Collar two and a blue for a two
two otter wizard that has flash, you may cast non
creature spells as though they had flash. That's fun. And
then whenever you cast a non creature spell birds, frogs, otters,
and rats you control get plus one plus one until
end of turn and you get to untap them. I
imagine that doesn't stack.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Oh if you have multiple flood callers, it does.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
No, no, no, no no. If you have one flood
collar and play two non creature spells.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Oh, it does, like like each trigger resolves separately.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Oh it does. Okay, I guess, like you geo brain
the weight's worded. I feel like that wouldn't work, but
I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Oh that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Okay, gross disgusting. Yeah, uh huh, that's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, in the context of everything you're showing me, that's
that's nuts. Yeah. I mean it's basically just like the
the otters already have prowess, so it's like double prowess
trigger now essentially right.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
And they tap for mana and they tap.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
For mana on top of so yeah, well you untap
them and they're they're just like the most swollen otters
you've ever seen in your life, Like, I just want
to see like these otters have like giant like uh
like just like huge muscles, because that's like what I'm
imagining this deck looks like.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah. So now put the Boomerang Basics in the Stormchaser's
Talent into the mix. What you have is leveled two
of the storm Chaser's Talent gets back an instant or
sorcery from the graveyard to your hand. Boomerang Basics returns
a permanent from your battlefield to your hand. Mm hm.

(36:13):
So if you have a total of five or more
mana produced by rats or otters or frogs or birds,
you can cast Boomerang. You can cast Boomrang Basics on
Stormchasers Talent. You then use the Stormchaser's talent to get

(36:33):
back the basics. You cast the basics again, and each
time you cast the talent or the basics, you are
untapping and retapping these.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
For manna and they're getting bigger, right, and so then
basically they have essentially like infinite power at that point.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Power equal to your deck because you have to draw cards.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, because you have to draw card Yeah. Yeah, Like
enough that it's told you kill the opponent in theory.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, if they can't stop you right there, using this
handful of cards, you can go off, pop all the
way off. It's one more, one more fun card from
the deck, because why not?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
This is crazy, it's funny because I'm like all these
things you've shown me, like these decks seem like very
like mod like Yu gi oh esque like decks where
they just have like these very easy to set up
combos and then they just go off and this is
very interesting.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Normal, that's not what standard has ever been.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Like, this isn't my magic, this is my I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Who let the u he O players into the building,
but god damn, you're not wrong, which is why I
really wanted you to cover this World Championship with me
because this is nonsense. But anyway, check out.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
This is a song song of Totin Tens. I don't
know if I said that right, but anyway, it's a
sorcery that costs X and a red create x one
one black rat. It's weird that's red and it makes
black rats. But I guess rat whatever, uh create x
one to one black rat creature tokens with this can't
block and then creatures you control gain hand.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Oh and then you just give them hay stove. Now
there we go. That just solves everything.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, not to mention, not wait, hold on, hold on.
And then the Valley flood collar also buffs the rats.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah we're done.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah we do we solve magic.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
We solved magic. We did it.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
And each if you like, dude, that's so crazy. Each rat,
if you have enduring vitality and badger will come. Each
rat taps for two mana for two. Yeah, even if
you don't a boomerang basics in circulation. If you just
have a stormchaser's talent lying around and you get back
the song of Totin tans and cast it again using

(38:51):
the manna from the other rats. That then buffs all
the rats and untaps them again, and they all have haste.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
And they all haste.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
You just keep you there you go, you crater hoofed.
You're attacking for a billion damage like it's Commander using
this card. I what happens?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
You're playing Commander Standard. You're playing Commander Standard.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
I yet kind of you el Commander Standard. I don't, dude,
I don't even know what this format is anymore.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
This looks fun to me. I don't know about you.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, you're throwing a party on this. Okay, oh good good.
You can help us make sense of everything that happened here,
because now you've been introduced to the decks.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
All right, this is what happens when you get a
taste of power CGB. You can't go back.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
You're not wrong. It is incredibly hard to depower. In fact,
some of the more dark ages of magic have been
the sets that followed the really powerful sets, And when
we look back on those sets were like, actually, they
were really good, and people have learned the fondness for them.
But like we're talking about like COMMI Gawa, block masks,
block things like that that depowered us from overpowered formats.

(40:00):
People at the time hated them. People took breaks from magic.
People were like, ah, this is lame. I'm like, please
take me back to concept time.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
You're always chasing the high. You're always chasing the.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Remember when Dig for Time and Treasure crews were busted.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh my god, those are so slow.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
I mean, they would probably see some play in these decks,
to be.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Fair, but they I'm about to say, let's not get
too crazy. Let's not get crazy.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Okay, maybe not maybe not maybe not. Oh my gosh.
So here's our here's our three front runners. These are
the three most played decks in the one hundred and
twenty six player field from the World Championships that happened
last weekend. The other category people who did not register
these decks. And keep this in mind, this is a
brand new format. There's a brand new format. They had

(40:45):
to do their own testing and figure this stuff out.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
VV was really so there was like no other like
there was no other Like, yeah, I was gonna say, like,
give me the background on like the preparation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
So there's the ban window was moved up to November tenth,
so there were be more time for the players to
test for the World Championship in the windows. Since the ban,
there have been standard events, but nothing on the scale
of one hundred k first prize finish, nothing with this
many stakes, so very just kind of no like pro

(41:15):
events really for standard Between the bannings and this and
the release of Avatar, so the new Avatar set comes
out and VV, Propsidetic Memory and Screaming Nemesis all got banned.
The format is in theory, very fresh, a lot of
untested stuff, and like I said, avatar. All of these,

(41:36):
all these decks have avatar in a big way. The
avatar is looking busted.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I was about to say, yeah, I'm sure the I'm
sure the UH stakeholders are happy about that one.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
When you put that together, it means not everybody going
to worlds, even the best players in the world, like
found these decks, found these interactions. So while you might
talk about your various Yu gi oh decks have had
an eighty plus percent meta share, the other thank you, yeah,
ninety percent thank you. The other category for this decks

(42:10):
that were not these three, okay, is fifty three percent.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Wow, really, fifty three percent of.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
The world's field found either A found none of these
or b found things they thought could beat them. Okay,
that's pretty wild, that's I mean, it's pretty good metal.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
These these are pretty insane decks. I mean, we've done
a lot of these videos. These look pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
So yes, so your first task here, Now, there are
forty seven percent of the metal left to go a
sign of percentage to each of these three decks. How
many people do you think played each of these? Split
out among that forty forty seven percent.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Before I get into that, just a bit of context
on how the Yu Giah World Championship works is basically
because the Asian territories and the non Asian territories have
two separate formats. Essentially, they basically make their own custom
format for the World Championship where they kind of a
simplified way, if a card is like banned one place

(43:16):
and not banned somewhere else, they always go with like
whatever the worst case scenario is, so like they'll ban
cards that like are are banned in like one territory
across both territories, if that makes sense. So the players
have to like stuff, right, So the players like on
the fly kind of have to figure out like what
the new best decks are given like this custom band

(43:36):
list that they make for because remember we're an eternal format,
so it's different for us.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
In a way, it's cool, and in another way, that
makes the meta and the results of the tournament and
the lists used in the tournament less relevant to the
average EUEO player.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Right exactly. Yeah, Like that's where people have some issues
with it. They always used to be this way, but like,
for the most part, that's how it has always been.
And yeah, it's it's kind of weird that it's like
its own made up format, but it is what it is.
I thought your audience might be interested to know how
we do things. But okay, so cool.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
It sounds cool, But I wish that it also came
with the caveat that after Worlds, those cards that were
banned at Worlds are banned in both places for a
period of time afterwards, so people could play the format.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
What they do is they do what's called like the
World's Events, where during the weekend or the week of
the World Championship, you're at your LGS, you can play
under the World's band List, you know, I have like yeah,
and they have like prizes that are like exclusive to
the World Championship time that you can like win going
to your LGS to play under like the World's band List,
which is.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Kind of like that, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
I think that's the good thing and it gets people
to be able to get into it and stuff too.
But anyway, we're not here for that, so I guess.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
One more one more thing because you made me think
of it, is there is also a limited limited avatars
so like open packs and play again at other people
who open packs. Is a big component of the World
Championship as well. There are limited players out there who
are gonna get mad if I don't mention it at all.
I don't care about that. Really, that's like I'm decided
to break your arms.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
I don't care about limited But yes, it was. It
was an important part of the World Championship, and it
did impact who made the top eight. So sure, our
numbers won't be as pure as I'd like them to
be if it was all standard. But that's fine, It's okay,
it's okay.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
So am I trying to guess the percentage within the
forty seven percent? Is what you were saying? Yep, okay, okay.
So I have to give three numbers within the forty
seven percent that made up the whole meta share. Let's
see which of these did I have like the strongest

(45:50):
visceral reaction too. I want to say it was the one.
I want to say it was the blue Red deck
just because I like drawing cards. I guess it's like
all these decks are all these decks are doing the
cheating man a thing like that's that, and they're all
doing something unfair in their own way. I'm just trying

(46:13):
to think like, what's the most resilient of the bunch,
because I just I like, again, this is yu giah brain.
I like the Blue Red deck because you basically just
don't really have to interact with your opponent. I mean,
you are interacting, but like your your wind condition can
effectively be just okay, I'm just gonna kill you with

(46:34):
this this artifact essentially, like you really don't have to
do much else other than like execute your game plan
with monument. Can you trigger it on your opponent's turn? Yes,
you can, Okay. I figured I just wanted to clarify
because it seemed like a trigger. Okay, So that that
expedites the clock significantly then as well, because now you
can deal like six damage through a full rotation, not

(46:57):
to mention anything else that you have. So that's pretty fast. Okay.
So they all have the man a cheating thing. The
Ang deck has like the infinite one ones, the blue
Red deck has, I mean basically like just the infinite

(47:21):
value to be honest, and then the green blue Red
deck also sort of has like infinite power theoretically. Mm hmm.
This is tough.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
They all look I feel like any of these decks
in a meta by itself would be a monster. Oh,
it's kind of wild that they're all here together, that
they all yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
I feel if you weren't all here against each other
then that would be a problem.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, you face it against Like even a few months ago,
one of the best X in the format was Mono Redo,
which is like attack you with dorcs and burn you
with spells and these. It looks like a whole different
game all you're thinking about it fun fun other facts
from the meta if I can find it here. Yeah,

(48:19):
Mono Red one of the best X in the format
for the longest freaking time. How many people played this?
Did it even make the list?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Oh my god? I think one person played it? Yeah,
there it is one person. One person played Mono Red
Agro out of one hundred and twenty six. Wow.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Okay, I think I think I'm going to put the
Blue Red deck at the top. And the reason I

(49:11):
say that is is because.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
It like.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
It's not really like looking to It has combos, but
it's not like the combo is like essential for the
deck to win, because if you're not comboing and like
doing the crazy, like the actual crazy stuff, you're still
drawing a crap ton of cards. You're still getting just
like insane value for each of your cards. It's like

(49:40):
you have all this like just incremental value that's just
piling up, like over and over and over to the
point where it's just like you kind of just like
out resource your opponent that it has like this inevitability
that I feel like the other two decks don't necessarily have.
And so I want to like put that as like
probably the front runner. So maybe I have what forty

(50:04):
seven percent to work with, yep. So maybe I'll put
like twenty percent for that for now and then maybe
I'll come back to it later, So that means that
that's twenty seven percent left yep. So then it's between

(50:27):
the Otters and the Ang Deck. And I think this
one's a bit more difficult because I feel like both
of these decks sort of do similar things in different ways.
I think, I like.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
M M, what do you like most like? Which? Which
deck do you Which deck has the thing that you like?
And why do you like it?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I like that I like the Ang deck better because
it you can just like airbend anything, right, And I
feel like that like because again, both of them have
the ability to generate insane amounts of mana because you
have the cub, you have you have all these things, right,
they have all this They have very similar tools in
a lot of ways. But the fact you can airbend
and do a lot of crazy stuff with that, I

(51:25):
feel like is a little bit more unfair than the otters,
and so I'm tempted to put it above just because
of that. So I think I have what twenty seven percent,
so maybe fifteen percent air bending twelve percent otters. Let

(51:50):
me see if I'm happy with that decision.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Twenty percent lessons, fifteen percent air bending, twelve percent otters.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Yeah, Like I kind of like that. I think they're
I think the air bending and the Otters deck are close.
I think the airbending deck might just be a little
bit more unfair. Okay, so that's that's.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Lock it in.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I think that. I think I lock that in. Yeah,
I'm tempted to put the lessons like a little bit
more if I'm going to like shave percentages, right, Like,
I don't know, maybe the lessons is like twenty three
or something like that, but I'll stick with this. I
think this is fine.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Okay. So the meta percentages at the World Championship are
is it Lessons eighteen percent? Most?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Wow? It's pretty close, yeah, really close?

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Right on, dude, I swear to god, you would be
a very You would fit right in with the competitive
magic scene because you love the same things that the degenerate,
most spikey pros love.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
It's the yuki oh brain, I can't help it.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Oh god, all the cards. Oh yeah, So the next
two it is, they're pretty close together, and you know
we're gonna go with team or Otters at sixteen percent.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
So Otters was above interesting, Yeah, but not by a lot.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Bant Combo Airbending is at thirteen percent, so you really
were only off by a couple percentage on each.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Really yeah, yeah, I was wrong that that airbanding was
Why Why is the Otters deck, in your opinion above
the Airbending deck?

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I think that the Otters and this is a harder
one to know, but it runs more known cards like
the Otters deck was an entity and it had done
some competitive damage in the past, though not a ton
it was kind of a fringe player, but a lot
of like name pros had played it in past events.

(53:51):
So Otters, out of these decks, has the most cards
in it that aren't new, all right, So if there's
if you're starting your deck from a place of I
already know these cards are good in the format, and
none of these cards got banned in the recent band wave,
you might start with Otters. The entire Otter combo was
available before except for the Badger Mole Cub. So this

(54:16):
is the deck that runs the least new cards, with
Badger Mole Cub being the one that you know. It
turbo charges the deck. It hits everything up a level.
So in that sense, it would be easy to come
upon the Otters deck without doing as much testing of
new cards, okay, or you might even say acquiring new cards,

(54:37):
because I mean, if you're in the World Championships and
first prize is one hundred thousand dollars, you'd like to
think you would find your Badger Mole Cubs. But this
little fucker is like eighty some dollars last week, that's
per copy, and they're hard to find. Like, I didn't
open I opened one across all the products I opened,

(54:58):
so I don't have a place at a back. They
knew what they were freaking doing.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
They did know what they were doing. Yeah, all right,
but now I guess that makes I guess that makes
sense though, right, I mean it's it's yeah, I don't know.
Maybe it's just more my yu gi oh brain. It's
like I just feel like the ang deck's more unfair.
But yeah, I mean it's we're splitting hairs in terms
of percentages here.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
So I mean, but dude, that's what we're here for
the app, right.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
That's sure.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, yeah, so we got to have things to talk about.
We now have our meta picture. It doesn't get easier
for you. So but that thing can have that on. Okay,
assign win rates to these three decks. Now you know
your meta picture.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Okay, so wait, so what was the put put in?
What the actual percentages were? Just like can see it
was eighteen oh yeah, the lessons was eighteen eighteen, sixteen thirteen. Okay,
thank you. Yeah, it wasn't too far off. Okay, win rates,
win rates, win rates, win rates. Okay, this is across

(56:06):
like the entirety of the World Championship, not like top
cut or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yep, if I give you the top cut first, it'll
really influence this, so I bet. Yeah. Yeah, oh was
to be properly challenging.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
The win rates, the win rates, the win win rates. Hmmm, yeah,
if you give because that's the thing, like, if you
give me the top cut, then that's gonna that would
skew everything. I do feel like the is It Lessons
deck is the better of the three, I do feel,
so I'm going to skew. The win rate for that one,

(56:40):
probably a bit higher compared to the others.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
And historic, like historically speaking, when win rates at pro
events don't get above like I mean, I imagine it's
like that in you yeo, right, Like what's the average
you yeo win rate for a good They don't really
track that on like oh okay, okay, so this might
be extra challenging for you. I was gonna give you
a range.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Like what's the what's the ceiling? Like what?

Speaker 3 (57:09):
What?

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Like?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Let me stay at least stay to earth on this.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Ah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay, I mean if that, if that influences it, I
guess I'll just go and blind.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
But I actually think it'll be funny to go in blind.
I really say, I'm very curious. I think magic players
are very curious. What you think a busted win rate is?

Speaker 2 (57:32):
How many like rounds do they play.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Sixteen and at sixty?

Speaker 2 (57:40):
But this is just for the the standard decks, like
that's not talking about limited, right.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I think it. I think your options though, are like
up to sixteen, right, because it's let's see, it's six
and then six each day, fourteen.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Right, yeah, because only it's only like if you go
the full distance? Do you play the full right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Right? I think you're only guaranteed like eight rounds.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Okay, I'm gonna tank on this one.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Do what you gotta do.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I'm trying to like think where i want to anchor
and then just like hedge my bets in case I'm
like way off, because again it depends because if it's
like that overwhelmingly dominant, like the wind rate could be
way higher than I'm thinking, or vice versa. I mean,
it goes both ways.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
But you cashed in on lessons being the best I
I am.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah, lessons lessons. I'm gonna go with sixty two percent, okay,
Otters fifty seven and then the ang deck fifty four.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
All right, So they're all winning decks. They all they
all turned out powerful the people who played them were right,
I'm gonna hope so okay, all right, So the win
rates we're going with are sixty two percent for lessons,
fifty seven percent for otters, fifty four percent for ban airbending.
Oh buckle up?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Oh boy.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
At top win rate for the event at fifty seven percent,
is it lessons? You got that one pretty pretty close.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Although close, that's kind of a lot for when it
comes to win rates. Yeah, a win rate.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Win rates above sixty percent have historically been in band
talk territory, like that's your general magic windows. So I
thought you might say something in like eighty percent or something.
It would have been really funny. It would have made
a good thumbnail. But what can you do?

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Oh No, I just I I feel like the lessons
deck is better than the other two. So I thought, again,
especially when you're talking about how this is like new territory,
not everyone picked up on everything. There's fifty three percent
of other decks that people like weren't even in these categories.
I thought maybe just cleaned up. So I was a
bit more generous in that regard.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Okay, I'm I'm not even going to I'm not going
to say these next too. I'm just going to share
them with you, and I want you to you can
react and say them. Okay, Okay, Ready, here's the actual
win rates. I'm sending to them to you right now. WHOA,

(01:00:36):
holy crap, that's terrible, egg.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
I gotta go back to airbending school. My thirty six
percent thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Six percent for this infinite quote unquote busted combo.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Yeah wow, yeah that crashed and burned.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Yeah, oh my god, and ours didn't did not actually
put up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Forty team or otters and thirty six percent for ban
airbending are the win rates on the event?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Holy cow, in that sense, got pretty damn crushed by
the most popular deck is it lessons? In fact, just
to break it down even more, the win rate for
the version? Which one do you think did better? The
Monument to Endurance Artist Talent version or the Eddie Mark
krab boomerang basics.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
I like the Monument one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I think that like the Monument one. What do you
think the ceiling is on the win rate for that one? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
So now we're doing win rates of the particular.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Yes, yeah, guess what the win rate was for the
monument version.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Oh, because so this would have been an average, so
this could be higher. I'll go fifty nine for the
Monument one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Sixty eight percent. Whoa, Okay, it absolutely killed it. The
monument version was so much more resilient, And a big
part of the reason is very few decks, almost none
have enough artifact and enchantment removal to remove the artist
talent and the monument to endurance. But lots of decks
have removal spells to kill a five y five That

(01:02:24):
was What about the crab? Yeah, yeah, lots of lots
of decks can kill a five to five crab. Rab
it was substantially lower. This was the version that was
announced in the broadcast, So they were like, you know,
sixty eight percent is the win rate for that version.
They might have said it at a different point in

(01:02:45):
the broadcast. I missed the version for the crab, but
I know, like you can look at the like overall
being fifty seven percent, this being sixty eight percent, you
can guess this was really picking up for the crab.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Okay, well, you know what, I feel vindicated that my
sixty two percent is so stupid now that the correct
version of the deck was at sixty eight. Yeah, put
that out there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
You were already doing. Well, you haven't looked stupid. I
sat I set you up for an opportunity to look
very stupid. You dodged that like an absolute ninja.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
You crow thumbnail this no thumbnail, You're.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Right, no thumbnail for this video. Nothing? Uh get So
here's here's a fun one. The Lessons matchup versus team
or otters.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Okay, seventy four win.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Rate against teamer Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Absolutely, really that is not that is that is murder as.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
That is most played deck. Yes it was gral and
but but we're not done. Percentage versus band airbending. Oh
probably Lessons versus eighty one percent. That's eighty one percent
about just demolished the two closest decks, destroyed them infinite

(01:04:03):
combo decks that would have been absolutely, in my opinion,
would have been dominant in past metas. Just got It's
really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Was it really the other fifty three percent that gave
the Lessons deck trouble?

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Then the other fifty three percent was quite varied. There
weren't a lot of decks in common. The meta shares
were pretty small, but they were very interactive decks and
specifically decks that didn't run cheap creatures. What most of
the pros figured out was that Badger mole Cub is
a fucking busted card because it's so obviously absurdly powerful,

(01:04:38):
and they put it in so many different decks like
I haven't even talked about Mono Green or Simic or
like Green Red just make one hundred guys with all
your mana and attack you to death, which is very
much a deck on ladder, and it was a deck
at this event many people played Simic. It's called Oraboroid. Basically,
it's a cub deck. It's a play a cub, make

(01:05:00):
creatures that make other creatures bigger, attack, win, you know,
very straightforward. So what all these decks who got dumpstered
at this event have in common is that they relied
on cheap creatures to do the beatings. The is It
Lessons deck, what it had that just made it so
good against these and what other decks that did well
against the is It Lessons decks had is they just

(01:05:22):
didn't lose to cheap creatures. They said, we're gonna because
they can run cards like Fire Bending Lesson, Combustion Technique
and Iro's Demonstration that just make sure that cheap creatures
are removed. They're getting value while they're killing off. Just
building machine guns for your chief creatures and gun on
them down, and then they outvalue you with whatever it
turns out. The best value engine that you could then

(01:05:45):
use on somebody whose cheap creatures you were gunning down
was accumulate wisdom, monument to endurance, an artist talent to
just draw your whole freaking deck and burn them out,
which was exactly what they did. It was if you
watching this kind of magic, the footage from the World Championships,
round after round after round after round after round is

(01:06:08):
just is it lessons just burning them down, murdering cubs
and then murdering each other's grand grands. That's what the
whole freaking footage is. It's that's wild. It's wild. So
the top eight you want to take a guess at
the copies in the top eight for these archtypes?

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Top eight, okay, let's go with Or is the top
eight all only these three decks?

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
No? Okay, but I'm only going to grade you on
the copies of these decks. But the six out of
the top eight are from this pool.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Okay, thank you. It's funny because I was gonna guess
to warp from this pool, so that actually would have
worked out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
You nailed it again.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I would have looked I would have looked so smart.
I would have looked so smart.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Should have just fired off the cuff bro.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
I should have. I'm gonna go with for one one
for one one so being the lessons one of the
other two.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Four were lessons nice okay, one was crab version, and
three were non crab talent monument version two copies of
ottersang wow yeah, and got shut out of the Avatar event.
I know, rip, I know a disaster, a true disaster

(01:07:35):
with last year's world champion was on an Ang deck
as well, which is yeah. Now apparently not in magic.
The gathering and the world champion would of course go
to the lessons deck with monument to endurance in it.
A fun anecdote from watching this event, they had the
person who was running the most successful version of the

(01:07:57):
crab deck. Uh. He was on camera something like five
four or five rounds on day three, which is an
insane amount of games to play on camera. His name
is Derk Davis, and the reason was he was like
the number one undefeated overnight. He went into the day
only needing this many wins to lock top eight. Then

(01:08:19):
he got matched up against the is it lessons deck
with the monument in it three rounds in a row
and he lost, and he lost, and he lost like
this not like this, Yeah, he really he literally went
from when any of these in, you're in and he
lost three in a row on camera, and then in
the last round he had to win to have a chance,

(01:08:42):
a tiebreaker chance to get in sure, but he pulled
it off and he made tuppy. But all that's got
it was talk about the drama. Wow, yeah, he what
a story. Uh it was. It was wild and it
was like painful to watch him round after round after
round getting dumb observed by the same deck over and
over and over because it became really obvious what the

(01:09:04):
better lessons deck in the mirror was by a mile.
And then you just watch him play that match again
and again and again, and it was it was hard, dude,
It was hard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
It's one of those things where it's like when you
realize it too, it's like, what are you going to do?

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Yeah? Yeah, your cards are your cards? Like you could
kind of if you pay really close attention. You could
see him in real time trying everything he could with
the sideboard and all these things. And then in the
top eight he lost the lessons again, it's like what
could you do? But you know, as he put it,
he just he found the right deck with the wrong version.

(01:09:38):
The more resilient version was the one that didn't rely
on creatures for the kill.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
And let's be honest, the top eight at the World
Championship is still something to be proud of, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
So is finding the right deck in it? Like yeah,
like really did just like one step away, just one
little step away. Its kind of wild. But anyway, their
magic the gathering World champion on is it lessons is
Seth Manfield. Seth Manfield. Now I want to know something.

(01:10:08):
We're gonna We're gonna talk a little drama here, little drama,
little drama here at the end. What is the UGO
policy on take cbacci's in tournaments?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
You don't. You don't what happens?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
What happens if you try to take cbaccin I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Really honestly depends on your opponent. Like if you try
to take something back and your opponent lets you, then
like technically nothing can stop you. But like if you
do a play and then you're like, oh, could I
do something else? And your opponent's like, nah, you committed
to the play, Like you're stuck with it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
So yeah, let's take an agency away from the opponent. There.
You know, there are active judges watching right, enforcing like
what the rules are? Is there a world where you
cast a spell? Like like, obviously this is this gets
really technical, right, because when have you technically made a play?

(01:11:06):
Is it when you announce it? Is it when you
put your card from the hand onto the field? Is
it when you remove your hand from the card, Like, yeah,
I don't know. Does yuo have any clear rules on this?

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
I want to say for you Gioh, it's like if
you i'd have to the rules. Gurus in the comments
will probably know better than I do. But it's really like,
you know, you're supposed to declare your moves as you
do them, and it's like when you commit to the play,

(01:11:43):
as in like you have played the card and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I would assume the card is on the field.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yeah, the card is on the field and it was
like legally put there. Like let's assume like you you
didn't accidentally put the wrong card or something like that.
Huh then yeah, then like you've committed to that play.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
I think it's really interesting because U Gioh has no cost, right,
so I think having played the card, if there is
a cost, I know you're gonna say there's other costs,
but let's just go really base yu gi oh if
I put my.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Oh, like normal, say, guy, there's no paying for the
manna gotcha?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, So if you just drop it on your play mat,
can you say I take that back.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Again? It's like you could, like you're technically not supposed to,
but like if you say, oh, can I do something
else and your opponent lets you, then like wow, yeah,
that's really amazing that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
There's agency on the opponent in this case. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I mean it's like again, like you're not supposed
to do that, but like technically you can. And like
people try it all the time. They'll be like, oh
oh shit, I played the wrong card or something like that,
and like they'll people will try to take back moves.
But okay, okay, like you, you're supposed to commit to it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
How about you, mister mister YouTube versimo guy, do you
let them take it back?

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
If I'm playing in a tournament.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
No, no, absolutely no, same story. No, no, you played it,
it's played. Yeah, And I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Feel like it's awkward being in like the content creator role,
right because it's like, you know, when we're doing content,
we're all friendly and having fun and a good time
and all that stuff, and I think people try to
take advantage of that because it's like, you don't want
to look like a dick, but at the same time,
you're playing in a competitive tournament, right, So it's like
I think people try to get play the card of

(01:13:34):
like U haha, play the card. I think they try
to play the angle of, Oh, he doesn't want to
look bad, so he's gonna let me take this back,
you know what I mean. I think a lot of
content creators can agree with what I'm saying in that regard.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Oh yeah, and then you know, there's on the other side,
there's also like people get more nervous when they play
a content creator, so then that they have kind of
that reason to point to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
But I also have I have the reverse first experience
where I feel nervous that I don't want to like
make a mistake, and like, let's say I accident because
I've done this before, I've accidentally like done a play
that I'm not like that's like in illegal play or
something like that, because I just like missed like something
that's on the board or whatever, and I don't want
to make it seem like I'm trying to cheat someone.

(01:14:19):
But like again, because of our position in the community,
I think it's like I get anxious because it's like
I want to make sure I'm not doing anything that
would come off that I'm trying to like scum someone,
you know what I mean, Like that's that they'd be
like the worst case scenario our career.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Yeah, yeah, our career is on the line when we
if we screw up bad enough and somebody goes online
says we're cheating. It was on camera and they can
prove it, like it doesn't like, yeah, we can't screw
up that badly. I'm thinking of like recent trauma in Riftbound,
Like it's it's really brutal when that happens. And as

(01:14:56):
a content creator, I empathize a lot with creators who
have screwed up on camera because it's happened to us
all kinds of card games, and I will get accused
of cheating.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Yeah, I think it's fulfilling to you for us because
then it's like we get nervous that we don't want
to make a mistake and get perceived as like cheating.
Or something like that, so that we get even more nervous,
and then it becomes cyclical, right, And.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
I can't prove if somebody is cheating or not, I
can't prove that they aren't. At the same time, I
definitely can imagine myself in that situation. I've seen plenty
of people get accused of cheating for things I know
I've done and I did. I know I didn't intend
to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
All these games are complicated, right, It's not like we
have the pleasure of like Arena or Masterdool where it's
all automated. Right, It's like mistakes are going to happen sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Yeah, So like that's it's it's really nerve wracking and crazy.
That's that's the content side of the content. Relationship with
rules enforcement and cheating is really weird. It's one of
the reasons I almost never tournament anymore. Like every it
really don't. It really rubs me the wrong way, and
I kind of like it takes a really strong personality

(01:16:10):
to keep doing it. So I applaud for players like
Jim Davis who make a lot of magic content but
also play pro Like, good for you guys. I couldn't
do it I don't have that in me anymore. And
when it comes to the World Championships. In magic, the
rules are actually so changed from back when I played.

(01:16:31):
When I played, if you played a card, you were
locked in I'm playing that card. Every word you said
could affect how the game progressed. If somebody cast a
spell and you said okay, but then said wait, I
counter that, you were already like, nope, you missed that,
you miss that. I was on a Commander show this
year where something hadn't enters the battlefield trigger that another

(01:16:55):
player didn't expect to work out the way it did.
And usually in a Commander show going back is no
big deal. But in that show they said, nope, we're
fast that point, you can't go back. I was like, wow, Wow, okay,
so we're playing like that here.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
I'm down. By the way, for the record, I am down.
I usually hold myself to more rule stuff and commander
on my Commander show than I hold anybody else to,
So I'm down for a throwdown. I actually get excited
when I hear that at the World Championship the rules
have become so different. So Seth Manfield is in this
situation where he pays the costs the man cost for

(01:17:37):
the card, he puts the card on the table, he
declares the target for the card, and it's a boomerang basics.
So when it results, he draws a card right, and
he's targeting his own monument to endurance. So he has
put it on the table, he has paid the cost,
he has said boomerang bas like, he has acknowledged that
he's played it. His opponent says okay, So his opponent

(01:17:59):
has a knowledge that it's resolving. And then before he
draws the card, he realizes there's only four cards left
in his deck. If he draws this card, he won't
have enough cards left in his deck to do the
discard draw effect of artist talent to kill his opponent
with monument to endurance. Okay, so he says, may I
take that back? After like a thirty second pause, he

(01:18:22):
hasn't drawn the card yet, and the judge allows it.
This was very controversial, not only obviously, like people who
were just looking away doing other things, playing arena on
the side or sorting magic cards heard the person who
would go on to be the world champion and a
former world champion by the way, Seth Manfield now two
time world champions say can I take this back? And

(01:18:44):
the judge say yes. So it was very triggering to
people who don't believe in takes the back seats at all.
But within the rules, he didn't do anything wrong because
he hadn't. He hadn't gained new knowledge. If he had
drawn the card. In theory he couldn't, but since he hadn't,
he could he can gain knowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Though, because the opponent said that that was okay to resolve.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
I that is the gray area and the thing that
is the most controversial. Yes, yeah, that is the controversial.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Part because that now you know, as Seth, that pretty
I mean, granted, the opponent could still have something to
interact with it, but you essentially know ninety percent right
that that is going to basically resolve or something is
going to resolve, and your opponent's not going to have
something to stop you or interact, right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Okay, Okay, So I have a yeah, go on, go on.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
No, no that go ahead, go ahead. And I just
to preface, I have no like be for anything with
any of these people. I'm just analyzing this as a
U GIAH player talking about this. So I just just
to put that out there. I'm not like going after
anyone or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Right, And for the record, I have what I would
call a you know, a creator friendship with Seth se
like we've interacted and done podcasts together in the past
as well. And I'm gonna say it again, what he
did was approved by the judge. He did not just
take it back. He did not try to talk anybody

(01:20:13):
out of anything. He asked the judge, may I take
this back? And the judge said yes, Like that's.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
So, that's really interesting and yu gi, oh, that would
never happen. So I'm not tell you that would not
have happened.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
I don't think there's any chance of cheating here. When
you are literally asking the judge, may I do this thing?
And the judge approves it, you didn't cheat. This is
a rules function, right, and I think having a rules
debate is totally valid.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
I mean yeah, And then that also gets into the
area of like, oh, was like the judge, you know,
was that the correct decision by the judge? Right now?
I imagine you guys have had judges you can appeal
stuff like that, YadA YadA, like you can get it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
So that's yeah, that's tough. I feel like it that
would have never happened.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
But yeah, yeah, it's really messy to see at the
World Championships, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
It's it's also weird because it's like, even if it's allowed, right,
the optics of it don't look good. No, you know,
I think that's like the larger issue here. It's like, yes,
what if we're going to look at like objective capital
t truth, right, was that a permissible play technically yes?
Is everyone going to be happy with it? No, like

(01:21:20):
obviously not.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
But it is how the rule, like it did follow
how the rules are written. So whether or not people
like it, maybe maybe it's a case for actually making
people more aware of the rules because it is kind
of an old school mentality now in Magic of no,
you played that, you have to play that, because that's
how it used to be. Like there were also trying

(01:21:43):
to bully each other in the game, right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
And there are some people who take the stance when
it comes to take backs of I don't care if
you take this playback because I want you to do
the optimal play, because I want to beat you anyway,
not because of like a technicality that you fucked up, right, right,
And that's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
What the rules are trying to achieve.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Right exactly, So I don't think I I think it's
I think it's just a bigger issue of the fact
that it's the optics behind it more than anything, and
I think more of is like as a content creator,
I think you and I sort of see it through
that lens compared to like, uh, non content creators, if
you will. So I think it's it's kind of just
a rough situation and unfortunately it's probably just going to

(01:22:26):
scar his his win. I'd like, I personally don't think
that takes anything away from it from everything you've told me.
If it was within the rules and everything was fine,
like granted in my game, would it have played out
that way? No, But if it's within the boundaries of
the rules, then you know, yeah, playing to win, you're
playing to win, right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
So does it change at all? If you know, because
it's open decklists, so both players have each other's deck lists,
you know that in that spot there is no instance
the reaction that the opponent could have in their entire
like registered deck list that would take advantage of the
knowledge that the boomerang basics would have resolved. Does that matter?

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
The question is as Seth, if you know that even
by taking that move back because it's open deckless, you
know that the opponent doesn't have a way to interact
with you regardless. That's yeah question.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
So we were talking about the knowledge, and that was
the debate because you knew now that the boomerang basics
would resolve. And I agree with you. I agree that
that is a very that is a contentious part of
the situation. So with open deckliss, you could also argue
that the judge, the other player and Seth all in theory,
assuming that they memorized and thought through everything correctly, knew

(01:23:49):
that there was no interactive point there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
In that case, then I think that just adds more
credibility to that it was fine because if there wasn't,
then what does it matter?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Then? Yeah, that's that yeah right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Yeah, no, I think and again, like yu Gi is
way different, right because like a lot of our cards
don't have like cost to play, right, so it's and
we don't do open deck lists for our stuff, so, uh,
you wouldn't know that there's no way to confirm that.
But with all that information, if you know that there's
no way that that can be interacted with regardless then
I I I feel like that's even more of a

(01:24:27):
non issue, to be honest. I know though I've been
answered that a lot of people don't like, but I
I don't know. I guess I just take that stance.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
And for the super tryhauds out there, you can go
check the footage. There are two cards that could have
interacted in that moment. One had already been played, so
it was non information that that card was spent. The
other the manna wasn't available to cast it, so in
theory there was no information to gain. But again it's
it's like really in the weeds, and it's really controversial,

(01:24:55):
And I really wanted your take as Yu gi oh
tournament enthusiast, because I had no idea what your game,
what your game's policy or approach to that was.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
So yeah, very enough. You know, it would have been
tough shit like you lose. That would have been our
stance on it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
That's the magic the gathering I grew up with, and
as a kid who got absolutely rules lawyered and bullied
by adults at every tournament, I don't miss that. I
there's a part of me that says, let them suffer
the way I suffered, but there's also a part of
me that was, like, God, I like so many nights
I wanted to quit. I wanted to quit because somebody

(01:25:34):
used some kind of a rules technicality to get me,
you know, and it exact really.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
Bad, especially when the pressure is so high You're at
the World Championship, right, it's like nerves, like there's a
lot going on, There's tons going through these players' minds. Right,
It's like, I don't I actually think this was like
the best outcome, even though optically it did not play
well in the eyes of the audience. I think the
the correct the the most positive outcome came from this objectively.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Thanks for the take on the drama. I know I appreciate.
I'm sure the audience appreciates the app And thanks for
checking out the World Championship decks. And the other like
thing to this is it's literally been a whole year
of blue and red decks that they banned Corey seal Cutter,
they banned VBB, they banned vv When do they ban

(01:26:28):
Grand Grand?

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
When do they bang Tiger Seal? That's the main that's
what we're holding out for.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
Tiger Seal showed up, turns out was actually open.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Yeah. It was a part of the is it Looting Deck,
which was a whole different arch type, but it lost
out to Grand Grand Yeah. One man of three to three. Nope,
one man one two.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Grand Grand we trust and Grand Grand we trust.