Throwback: Is Foundations A Mistake (Feat. Crim)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
de covod podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
What's Up, Cram, Yo, So, so I've got a serious
question for you. I got a serious question for you. You ready,
is Foundation's a mistake?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Actually the it's dare I say no? I'm curious about
it because this is new right we we haven't actually
had enough time to really process it yet, and right
out the gates my initial first impression so far, Yo,
this is kind of.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
A banger set.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's a home run for the Magic Boomers and also
for the Magic Zoomers.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
So this is a.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
And it's also fun to like draft because again it's
not like keyword soup, it's not all of these random things,
and like the fifteen page essays for abilities, it's kind
of just back to basics magic and a great set
to like get started on as well. So all around,
I think it's been pretty good. You get to see
a wide array of power you see combos. We haven't

(01:28):
seen an infinite combo back and standard for a bit
unless you do some really convoluted hoops, like convoluted jumping
and like whatnot. But like we're talking about the old
I mean not even old. It's just if you're a
Commander player, you're used to seeing this all the time.
But the exquisite blood sanguine bond style combo we have that.
You could also see that if you watch our video

(01:48):
on Shuffle up and play with Jesse Deck and that
combo phenomenally. So yeah, you were just dead. I liked it.
You were just dead.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I mean at least on arena. Again, I played the arena.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I can play to them, maybe roping out and misclicking,
but you know, I think it payper. It's a little
bit harder. Which, by the way, the internet loves the
way you shuffle, apparently the way you shuffle. Where is
this coming from? What is wrong with my shuffling?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I did this for years I received no flak, and
ever since, like I don't know, Commander has brought a
bunch of what I will.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Call soft shufflers to the.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Fold or something because they're they're really worried about the
way I shuffle. Don't worry about it so much.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
The cards are just getting randomized. What is the name
of the bat that's the other half of the combo?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Do you have any idea Starscape like Cleric or something Starscape.
I'm just gonna call it bat that thing bat guy, Yeah,
not deep Cavern Bat.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's all I know, not the other one. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Starscape Cleric that's the one. So yeah, Bloodthirsty conquer is
the new one. So that is five mana and just
it's game over when you gain is it when you
gain a life?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
So, oh god, when.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
They lose a life or when they lose a life,
it just instantly bounces off each.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Other and they die. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Right, have you tried this? Have you done this in
standard yet? The Bloodthirsty Conqueror combo? I have not, mostly
just because I mean, it's cool that it exists. I'm
happy that it exists. But you know, that's just like
not my forte. I'm not a not a not a
I don't know, a sanguine bond combo player, whatever you

(03:30):
want to call it. I've been doing other things. I've
been diving deeper into like what we what I played
when we played on Shuffle Up. I've been doing more
like demonic packs. I've also been playing a lot with Burn.
Oh no, yeah, I know, I know, I know you
hate your motto red CGB.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
But what dude, But Burn is kind of sick right now, only.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Because this is why I'm interested about Foundations, right to
tie it all back. You asked me if I thought
it was a mistake or not, and I think no,
because you know, when Heartstone you you get these five cars,
these cards, right, these class cards that stay around forever, right,
or at least until they get nerved for band. Magic
is now taking a crack at that with Foundations. And

(04:18):
because Magic has now brought back Boro's charm and has
put bolt Wave like into standard for five years at
least as of right now, it looks good. I may
ask me again in like three and a half years
where we are maybe I'm tired of getting Boros charmed
or it's already been banned. But Burn is kind of sick,

(04:40):
and it feels like you're playing twenty fifteen modern Burn.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
By the way, all right, let's tackle one animal at
a time, because I spent today on two decks and
they were cat Packed yep and burn No, yeah, yeah,
that's what That's why I was doing well. Uh, just
before we started recording was exactly those two decks.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
We didn't set this up at all.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
So tell me. Let's let's tackle one at a time.
Let's talk cat Packed. Let's talk cat Packed.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Have you played more of it?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I have, and I played a lot more of it.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And what do you like?

Speaker 1 (05:16):
What is what's cooking? Is is it legit? And like
some of the card choices like are you are you
on black Red? Are you still on Gris's do you
run like the arc fiend of the Dross that maybe
I maybe or maybe not killed me with at some point?

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Well, I have.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
I've been playing all of it the same, like almost
similarish to the seven sixty that I played against you,
but I added a sideboard as well. I'm still in
Gress just because I think Coveted Falcon is just good.
M This is gonna sound really weird, but there's a
point late in the game where I do not mind
just giving you a few lands, giving you a few things,

(05:56):
and just drawing a ton of cards.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
And as mister masa Falcon.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
You know, I gotta I gotta, I gotta show my
love to my other falcon. I guess coveted Falcon. I
think that card's the truth. So Grixis is kind of
where I think it's home for me right now when
it comes to that deck. Now, is the deck good?
Be very real with U CGV.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I played the hell out of this deck. I took
it to PU like pptqs or whatever rcq's for Pioneer
back when Pioneer just came out and I and I
had good success with it. But I will say I
don't think it's good anymore. I think it's straight up
hot garbage. Oh oh no, it's too clunky. It's too clunky.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
It is a clunker. It is a clunker. Why does
it feel like playing a four man of sorcery speak
card in standards?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Is a deck?

Speaker 1 (06:44):
It's it feels like a death sentence right now? It
really does.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
It does? It really does. And I think the reason
why it feels like a death sentence is because it
actually just is one and mostly because you played fore
MANA and you've got lay line bindings, you got get lost. Yeah,
you've got answers that are gonna just trade for your
four or five, Like four plus man, a dirty, chunky,
clunky threat, a much cheaper rate.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
I was.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was in a spot today where my opponent played Calyssa,
and I'm like, looking at the Demonic Packed in my hand.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
That is not good. That is literally not good. What
if they you know what's funny, Demonic Pack may be
so bad that if I the if I was the
GLYSA player, I wouldn't even kill your enchance.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yes you would, Yes, you know you would, because I'm
just gonna kill your casa. Stop telling you're a good
gas lighter. I'll get to that later. You're yeah, we're
just putting it into the world. Don't kill the packed guys.
Let it be like but my god, nothing feels as
slow as like Fyrexian Arena and Demonic Packed right now,

(07:54):
Like those two cards, you just feel the pace of
magic how it's and and this this is part of
why I start this off with, was Foundation's a mistake.
So this goes back to a few things. Three year rotation,
the amount of sets being released and Foundations. Foundations is
a gigantic set. It's like three sets in one that
are gonna be legal for a long time. I feel

(08:17):
like there's a modernification, or one might say a modernization
of Standard, and it feels more like modern because everything
is like you're taking a couple of the most efficient,
brutal cards from each set, you know, that are super cheap,
super effective, super amazing at what they do, and there's

(08:38):
just more of them being introduced all the time. We
have six standard sets coming next year on top of Foundations.
You know, you know it's gonna be massive, and it
feels like Standard is getting so quick and so brutally efficient.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
Man, I get scared.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
I get flashbacks to like Ravager Affinity Standard and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, okay, okay, calm down, calm down, no way.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, so that was too polarized because it was artifacts,
so there was really only one deck. There will be
multiple decks. I'm not saying there's only one.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Deck in this standard. I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
It doesn't feel like Standard. It doesn't feel like you're
you can tap out with a four mana card you know,
you just die. It feels more like Splinter Twin and
Modern is out there and it just feels brutal.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Man.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
I don't know how to explain it. It's very intense.
I think you don't think so.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Okay, So the way you're right like it, Standard is
a the wild wild West right now with power, right like,
if you play Formana, it needs to be on par
like I think, funny enough, she Aldered might be not
what she was a year and a half ago. She
Alders just a good card, right like, She's just a
really good card. Yeah, and that's the power we're playing

(09:57):
at right But I think standard all around because the
three year rotation, the five year like foundation set has
now opened up Standard to being just this real like
it feels like it's modern when it was twenty thirteen,
twenty fifteen. And though I may not be able to

(10:19):
tap out and just play a four drop, actually no,
I think you still can. Yeah, this this format is dirty.
This format is so dirty, really, I mean yeah, like, okay,
assuming that you're prepared right for Lizards and red and
all of that, every other deck is going to push
us into the late game. I think that standard right now,

(10:42):
you're just looking at a product of a bunch of
cards that are really efficient when it comes to answers.
And now, because the answers are so efficient, it feels
like if you tap out and pay play for or
for a four minute enchantment and say that as an example.
It feels like the answers are just so good right now,
and that's why you're seeing lanar elves like being let

(11:04):
back into loose. Yeah, because it would always the age
old question of okay, well, if we play Lanarolf, the
answers have to match it. So the answers have gone
past that. I think maybe your concern is not so
much that you can't tap out and play stuff, because
I think you can still play stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
And tap out.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
It's more of the answers now are so good? Is it?
Like it's this weird. I feel like everything is at
a balance right now. The threats are absurdly good and
the answers are absurdly good, so we're actually at parody.
And I think that's why I love Standard right now,
because I can tap out and pay four and my

(11:41):
opponent can tap out and play something for four. But
in the back of my mind, I know it's not
the end, and nothing here in the Standard like snowballs,
maybe a troxa ye like.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
But AXA is a whole nother story, right, you can
get that out on turn three.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
I've done it.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, Yeah, Like it's definitely doable, right. But I think
the beauty is that even the Atraxa on turn three
is not the end. I don't think it's the end,
and I think we're at a point where standard to
me personally, I love this. I love that. At first
I was a little lukewarm about the extension of three years,
but now I'm seeing foundation and I'm seeing all these
pieces at play. We're seeing answers stay around for a

(12:19):
lot longer. Maybe cards like Kaido example, will see some
play now because there'll be more Ninja's cheap tempo cards
from Foundations like being added down the line all around.
What I'm getting at is that I think I feel
that now if I tap out, I don't feel like
it's an auto loss. I think there's always something to do.
There's always an out. And I think that is just
because the general power level of answers, and also if

(12:42):
you're on the other end of that, you.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Hate how powerful the answers are.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Every threat is now a must answer threat, you know,
like before we would let manileak something and let a
bunch of other.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Stuff go through.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
You can't really do that anymore, right, but I guess
you can. It does power that way.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
It does feel like whatever they cast on turned two
you have to no more lies it. You have to, yeah,
because everything will spiral. Yeah, but that's like the power
level thing, right, because that, right, I see that that
I think is what's missing. They could bring back like
blocks or something, because I miss the low power but
still constructed formats. I think that's what I miss. I

(13:20):
miss a little bit, a little bit slower, where you
don't have to kill something the second hits the table
or the game is over, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Like like somebody's played against Red too much, I guess.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
So I'm just it like it used to be that
the opponent would play if they played Creatures on turns one, two,
and three, you would still untap for a turn for
Wrath of God. And I feel like that's impossible now.
I feel like that will never happen again in any format.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah? I miss I miss those.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Play patterns a lot, and that probably surprises nobody.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
This is just my life. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Isn't that isn't that bad though, because look, look, I
know you're you're remembering the good times of that era, right,
You're thinking about the days where you could untap and
then just live to a wrath of God and that
was that was the business. It was unbelievable. But you're
not thinking about the bad times back then? How like
I feel back then? Okay, like let's let's just go

(14:15):
back to I don't know, world WAG standard or something like. Okay, right,
I didn't play that one, but I believe.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
You we'll do another whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
What was the last standard you played back then?

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Because because I like I played ye, so I.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Feel back then there were the answers just either the
answers back then were too good and the creatures were
too bad, right, like they were so bad. So if
I'm coming from the perspective of the agro to mid
range player, like trust me, I was the control player
back then as well, just like UCGB, it always felt

(14:55):
great for us. But I try to think about it
from the person who was trying to play a Boris Reckoner.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was a card though, like
Boris Ekiner Blood, Boris Ekiner, Boris Reconner. Blasphemous Act was
a combo that happened.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
It's funny.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
It was cute, yes, it was very cute, but you know,
for a fact it was bad, right, Like, I just
want more people to play it. I think you are
getting that now though, right, more people are willing to
play the Boris Reckoners because the Boris Reckoners do so
much more now than they did back then.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yes, and Screaming Nemesis. Look at that card.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, oh my god, god, Yeah, that is a card.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
We're going to get into the burn talk a little bit.
This might be a good segue. I don't know how
many times today like draw screaming Nemesis was my answer.
Sometimes I did. Sometimes I did it, but I was
just like, well, they're that sheltered by ghost deck. They're
going to reanimate and Atraksa they're going to re animate
a Valgavov.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
If I have a Screaming Nemesis, I'm good. If I
don't like that card is kind of insane. I mean,
what if we made skull crack but forever and attached
to a like a hasting body.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Right, Yeah, that is the development of creatures, right, that's
what you're saying. The creatures back then, weren't these creatures.
These creatures, they don't just three three haste. They three
three haste and game warping ability that could be triggered
the turn you play it, it's kind of wild. It's
actually impressive. The Falcon. We talked about the Falcon. I
think that's the best card in the deck.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
I really do.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Like you remember you and I were like working on
Demonic pack decks when we found out we were going
to be on a show together. Go check out Shuffle
Up and play that's public now and I was showing
you the Falcon and you're like, You're like, we were
going back and forth on if you need the Falcon.
I think the Falcon's the best freaking card in there.
And it's a creature, of course, like every good card
is a creature. Now it feels like.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well it has to be because you have sun falls right,
Like Day of Judgment not gonna cut it. I don't
think Dave Judgment is good anymore. It's just like average
at best. I'll have to try it later. Yeah. I
tried a little bit and it just felt lacklustered personally.
But yeah, so this is the evolution of the creature.
And I think streaming Nemesis is where we're at now,

(17:18):
and it has to be that so that burn decks
can exist and you know, at the same time, I
think some old cards are still good, like that burn deck.
I don't know how you built yours right through four
ball Lightnings back in what.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, oh my god, ball z ohas to the wall.
I forgot they put that in the set. There's too
many things, man, five.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Years, it's five years worth the cards, right, So ball
Lightning is in there. And trample haste.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
By the way, people out there for the kid, it's
six' one trample haste for three. Red you sack it
at the end of turn this this was in the Dark,
Originally i've been getting hit by ball lightning since most
of our, audience since before most of our audience was
walking and.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
Talking Good.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
God.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
YEAH i wasn't there when it was in, standard BUT
i always knew it was a like an, iconic like
a legendary, card right because it was so, good and
they built iterations of it Like Spark trooper moving, forward
and SO i was, Like, okay it's time to.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
See if this is still got.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
It. Dude no one plays around ball. Lightning, no no
one plays around. It not cutdown doesn't cut. It, yeah
it literally doesn't cut. It and they've already exhausted almost
all their removal on all your other things and then
you just ball lighten them to the dome and it's.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Over just, yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Six is too. Much it's too, much and it has.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Trample SO i can tell you this after ball lightning,
PEOPLE i did a. GAME i played a game WHERE
i did nothing but a one drop two drop AND
i ball lightning for three turns in a, row and they.
LOST i didn't do. Anything they just.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Lost they couldn't deal with ball.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Lightning it's pretty and so burn is. Good Screaming nemesis
is very. Powerful but it's weird because you're seeing these
power crept, cards these powerful new, cards but you're also
seeing old cards that were once legendary iconic things Like
liliana of The veil in this current Standard.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, yeah and like three man at The. Plane three
mana seems right for a planes walker right. NOW i
can't imagine playing a four mana. One but Even liliana
seems like she comes out and dies pretty. Fast it's
really interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Or not or non factor or but then, Again liliana
has been one of the most difficult planes walkers to.
Play where most people don't know there's the you probably know,
this the hidden, mode the fourth, mode which is you
don't do. Anything, yeah and she's.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
Chilling.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
YEAH i watch so many people Play lily and just
uptick and throw away a ton of their, cards WHICH
i want them to do BECAUSE i have dead cards
against them AND i don't mind throwing those away, anyways juicing.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Themselves point, is.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
This standard feels very, strong but it balances itself. Out
it's not like back. Where the Closest i've ever gotten
to quitting playing magic and quitting and just being done
with content as a whole was ORIGINAL L. Drain oh oh,
oh ORIGINAL L.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Drain.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
YEAH i watched my first video with ldrain legal as a,
set just kind of as a, throwback AND i HAD
i Had oco on turn two in my very first
game OF L. DRAIN i didn't even know how to
use the darn, card but it was, disgusting.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
It was, Right, Yeah and then what was meant to
be a mediocre Planes walker ended up wharping the whole
game right, down, down all the way back To, Vintage
like was it that year that was where Black lotus
got elked and swung for? Lethal, YEAH i look that
up on the.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Internet that's how The Vintage championship was won by elking
a black.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Lotus to swing for. Three that's that's, yeah true.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Story, yep the symbol and icon of. Magic the gathering was,
elked slung rel.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Ethal BUT i mean that's, Perfect that's exactly how it
should have been back. Then just, yeah when new cards
just trumped old cards for a, minute absolutely.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Insane to the.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Event and then you, go like you AND, i you
talked about it, earlier you touched up on it Arc Bound,
ravager you, know we played through the skull clamps as.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
WELL i got back into magic during that, moment which,
Was i'm really.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Bizarre it was really.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Bizarre the good thing about getting back into magic During
Ravager affinity was you knew exactly which deck to buy
until it got.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Banned, yes it was very. Easy there was one, deck
and then there were the believers who always came up,
with OH i got the, tech and the tech is
we just run main eight board artifact.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Removed, yea my molders are still gonna take over this.
Game my molder slug has.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
This, yeah, yeah. Exactly we were main decking four. Oxidized you,
know so like this this standard, though like feels like
where it's powerful WHERE i would dare, say if Skull
clamp existed in this current, standard.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
What do you think where do you think it would?
Place do you think you would.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Like i'm being, Honest, WOW i think the answer the
answers we are. Good now you think skull clamp would be?

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Fine you're.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Not you didn't say, that but like you're you're wondering
if skull clamp would be.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Fine, yeah we talked ABOUT i think about it all the, Time, Tarmag,
yeah would be in the, standard would be, absolutely it
would be.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Unplayable would skull clamp be? Fine so what decks would
run Skull?

Speaker 4 (22:46):
CLAMP?

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I oh, god the mice decks would run it for,
Sure like for.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Sure would they want to kill THEIR i mean, yeah
well they they.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Don't they trigger their valiant with, it and it actually
goes like this on A heartfire hero is a valiant trigger,
first so they take it like a three one or,
whatever and now when it, dies it draws. TWO i
think for sure they'd run two three. Copies, YEAH i
think so.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
That would be the best home for, it, right, Yes
but like IF i thought back to like back then
during Skull clamp, standard the answers were, there but they
weren't that. Good they were kind of super narrow and
kind of were just dead cards on their, Own like
they didn't win the, game, right they were just air and,
fluff and the Skull clamp decks would come back and
still win. Anyways but the main thing is, now because

(23:33):
of where we are In, STANDARD i think our answers
are good enough and our creatures are good enough to
where LIKE i think you'd have a fighting chance against
Skull clamp and maybe the mice deck would adopt. It,
right but everything exiles now.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
The rabbits would enjoy it a. Lot, yeah the rabbits
would enjoy, it AND i don't see, it. DUDE I
i will give The agro decks. This they're, explosive but
the card advantage that they need to grind with a
deck that does if they don't close the game quick,
enough it does come at a, cost like targeting their

(24:08):
Ember Heart challenger or whatever that mouse that exiles. Stuff you,
know it is not always going to hit something you can.
Play some of the rabbit decks don't have any card
advantage really of any. KIND i think when you give
it a one man a card advantage machine for when
the game does start to slow. DOWN i think that
would be. BUSTED i don't think Skull. CAMP i don't
think Skull clamp would last in the.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
STANDARD i just.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
DON'T i don't see. IT i get what you're, saying
BUT i think it gives them another dimension that would
make them. UNBEATABLE i don't.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
KNOW i don't. Believe i'm not a.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
BELIEVER i don't know If i'm not out here saying.
THAT i think it could easily just slot. In BUT
i do think that it's definitely in a, format in
a format where our power. LEVEL i don't know if
it's once it's like the legendary win the game on the,
spot like it once. Was, Right LIKE i am in
the firm believer, camp the camp that you could just

(25:01):
Have chase the Mind sculptor in the.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
STANDARD i believe THAT i one hundred percent agree That
chased the Mind. Sculptor you know, WHAT i don't think
there's a fore man of Planes walker that's too good
for this, standard not a single one out there that
is again the foremana tap out and you might lose
the game Syndrome i'm kind of suffering. From but, YEAH
i don't think they've printed a busted enough Fore man

(25:23):
of Planes walker for this. STANDARD i think bring Back
Chandra Tortcha. Defiance that was an awesome Planes, walker but
that was good in, standard absolutely, busted absolutely amazing, card
but never had to be like band Or nerfed or
anything like.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
That and bring Back.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Jase, yeah we should have the most iconic versions of
Planes walkers in something Like, foundations but instead.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
They went with a lot of new.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Characters like you can really tell what they're focusing on
for the next several years because they Put kaido in,
there they Put loot in, There, yep they put zimone in.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
There, yeah they.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Are trying to build out their next Like, gateway, right
but even It with that being, SAID i think all of,
that Like i'm happy to see these new. CHARACTERS i
wish they did bring Back, chase like The Mind sculptor
or some of the iconic, cards BECAUSE i think they
could have. Worked, Dude i'm not gonna lie to. You
the reason WHY i bring that up is BECAUSE i

(26:17):
right now you talk about the standard and and like
how powerful it, IS i WOULD i think we're forgetting.
That Thalia guardian Of thraven's, Here liliana of The veil
is here things that were Once.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Wait Isn't thalia?

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Gaunt must Be, No i've been waiting For thalia to
rotate for. Years oh thank. God, okay don't scare, me.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Dude, okay maybe she, is but like scaring, me she's
there's still all stars in this, format, right Like. Liliana
you've got that, Here So i'm curious to see how
many other things you could have. HERE i personally wish
they had Put manilik in the. Set how good Would manilik?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
BE i, like No More LIES a lot of would be.
Fine it would be totally. Fine No More lies is not.
Busted i've even been trimming it from time to, time
which blows my mind considering how Good manileik. Is But
manolik would be a lot better in Like Mono Blue Blue,
Black like they would really love A. Manoalik that, said

(27:16):
it would completely price out every single quench that they've.
Printed and you know they print endless quenches in every
set these. Days maybe that maybe that's, Okay maybe that's.
Fine it is just kind of another wasted spot in
every set to have a, quench isn't?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It? Yes and they keep doing variations of, It i'm,
like just stop dancing around. It, yeah give us the Iconic,
manoleik it's not even that.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Busted we literally Have cavern Of.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Souls, right we have so many ways to counteract, it and,
yeah no more lies is already really good and. Better
SO i Think foundations could have introduced that in the
like in the into.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
THIS i do not think lightning bolts can come.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
BACK i was, Like, Okay i'm glad they brought back
Bolt wave or something they needed a powerful. SPELL i
thought they would have brought back like the iconic. Cards
SO i was, like there's a. Concern what are the
odds they bring bolt?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
BACK i thought there was a, chance but, yeah, please, no,
no none of.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
That, yeah get that out of here bolt. Back but
what about In? BLACK i feel like not seeing something
like a a Doom blade, even you, know like we
saw we're seeing classic, cards but we're not seeing Doom.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Blade, yeah what is the iconic black card in this
set that, like Now duress is legal for five? Years
big surprise to, everybody you.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Know WHAT i?

Speaker 4 (28:43):
Mean, yeah, hmmm that's a good.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Question when the last time we didn't Have duress was
that when Like battle For, zendocar where we had to
use transgress the. Mind there was like.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
A one month window before it got it came back
in Like fyrexia OR i guess that was like three.
Months you, know there was like a very small period of.
Time and at the Time thalia was, Legal so Like
duress wasn't even that good in best of, one.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Which of course is WHERE i play a.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Lot still used in, SIDEBOARDS i used to say for,
years like anybody out there who plays a lot best
of one but is intimidated by having a sideboard for
best of, Three, Negate duress whatever, Else, like you're, Good
like those cards are just the quintessential sideboard cards.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
To, Me yeah they, are And i'm now we have it.
Forever and that's WHY i, Like i'm okay with With
duress being around for five, years BUT i felt like
they could have just added one more, thing, right like,
me a Doom, blake give Me go Fort Hell Infernal
grass would have been, phenomenal right like for five, years
because then, SURE i know that kind of pushes out
whatever fell and sorcery speed unconditional.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Removal but nobody plays Those it's. Fine, yeah we're already
shooting call it.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah But i'm sad that they
didn't bring that. Back they gave us Lean. Wolf lenolf
is the green, card, right the red. Card they kind
of had to make a new one because it's not
all Your bolt's not happening and everybody put that dream to. Rest,
yep Doom blade, though or something that should have been
in black, white white, white get it got day Of.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Judgment damn. Judgment, okay acceptable.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
BLUE i don't think we got, anything, Dude LIKE i
Think omniscience was the attempt at, that but Like omnisciens
is a ten.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Man, yeah it's in a very specific deck that Only
Whales canon should.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Play so, twice, YEAH i, THINK i, GUESS i think.
TWICE i love think, twice BUT i know.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
We just power crept. It we just power crept think. Twice,
like it's kind of hard to get behind.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
That there's anime. Art, uh there's anime, art think. Twice
Cg come, on.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Is there any card you wouldn't like stand for an anime,
Art sarah card that still wouldn't. Play, no you Play
nature's lower anime. Art you would ramp an anime.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Art, yeah, okay come, on it's not like it's not
like anime doesn't have high, fantasy, right come, on it's
just there's lots of high. Fantasy it's just art, styles
and his magic gets weirder with its art. Styles why
not give it an anime.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
ART i would one play an all anime art Style
burn deck in a?

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Heartbeat in a?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
HEARTBEAT i think that would be silly AND i hate those.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Decks but, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Let's circle Into burn again a little. Bit were You
boros or were You Mono?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
RED i Was.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Boris oh, Okay i'm Gonna i'm gonna throw you a.
LIST i just saw FROM MTG o that FIVE o
today and this is apparently what they're doing on mtgo these.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Days was?

Speaker 1 (31:51):
It was it similar because we've Got boro's, charm we've
got uh Burst LIGHTNING i think think is the most
played new card right now from on. Mtgo, yeah any
this sees, spice, Right this is not at.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
All this is closer to What red was prior to
lay line. Banning, Right this was pretty much What red.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Was i'm playing a different. VERSION i am all in On.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Burn they're still doing the, hayster you, know get on
the ground and just start.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Swinging, also no burst. Lightning oh come Oh, no.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
It's, there it's. There there's four of.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Them oh it's. Lurking they wanted, more they doubled. Down
they want shock and, Burst lightning And helix And Boros
charm like that's. Absurd but, yeah they're still in On Monstrous.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Rage it's still. In this is The.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Monstrous rage, agro which we don't normally we don't See Screaming,
nemesis which is like one of the best things that
Burn deck could. Have but that's because they're not trying
to do what we're trying to DO, cgp and that's
WHY i think my list looks very, different and it
was very soft it as. Well uh do you know
the Two man Of phoenix where you pay one and

(33:04):
if an instantar sorcery deals, damage you pay one and
you get it back with haste flame.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Week, no that's got ferocious or something are what? What
oh Are you're not talking About?

Speaker 4 (33:17):
God what is?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
It it's like Mana gorge Or.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
PHOENIX i thought that was An alchemy. Card Now i'm.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Lost, No i'm not Playing.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Alchemy, whoaa, whoa.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Whoa there's good reasons to Play. Alchemy we'll get to, it.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Sure, sure but you're Playing Blood Feather. Phoenix, yeah, DUDE
i forgot.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
This card was In magic right? Now oh my, god
really for, real.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Dude it's you're Playing Blood Feather. Phoenix, yeah it's so.
Good and the best part is that now you have,
screaming Screaming, nemesis Blood Blood Feather, phoenix things that people
just like are, like, well if my removal is burn,
Based i'm not going.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
To target it at Streaming.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Nemesis my cutdown doesn't really change much Because Blood Feather
phoenix is just gonna come, back. Right all you got
to do is stock or burst, lightning pay one and
boom you get it. Back they have to keep answering
it until the exile.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
It i'm just stunned because Like krim from ten minutes
ago is, like well everything, exiles and Now krim's Like
Blood Feather, phoenix The, truth the.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Truth guys have. It you gotta have, it, though, right
you gotta have, it do? YOU i don't.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
KNOW i haven't played this card in so. LONG i
tried it the right when it came. Out this is
A march of The machine. Card, yeah, yeah two to
Two flying can't block for. Two it doesn't have haste
and whenever an instant or source reydeals commet damage to
an opponent or a. Battle you may pay red if
you do return this from your graveyard to the, battlefield
and then it gains. Haste, Dude i'm just, SO i

(34:54):
just feel like it's going to get. Exiled BUT i,
MEAN i guess the burn spells were so much worse
two years.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Ago when this came. Out, yeah, yeah they.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Were we didn't have any of the spells we've got. Now.
Dude it's, DUDE i don't know if this is a sideboard.
Card i'm. Playing, specifically this is best of, one BUT
i could see best of, three maybe having a few
copies just for the fun of, it for a redundant
or like a recursive. Threat but, dude this card cooks.
That And i'm playing the four Ball, lightning So i'm

(35:24):
not even. Joking, Dude like you want to see my.
Lips it's, Funny, dude it's so. Much it's so.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Gas if they want to see if they want to
see your, list they can tune into your twitch streams
right The Asian adventure On. Twitch oh my, Goodness i'm
kind of. Terrified i'm kind of. Terrified there's so many
burn options AND i guess that's part of the long.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
Standard but all of.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
These things just kind of do the, thing which is
you you are. Dead you are dead, quickly and if
you don't interact with whatever the creature threats, are like
the moment they come, down it does feel like it's already.
Lost four boroughs, charms four. Lightning he likes four lightning,
strike four burst. Lightning somebody do the. Math how much
damage is That if they kick those burst lightnings as

(36:16):
like sixty, damagers that's like fifty some.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Damage that's. Insane one GAME i had sixteen damage in my.
HAND i was just, like, OKAY i only got a deal.
FOUR i thought About haydetsigu's second right for the, memes
because that's, back by the way at. Uncommon, sure four
man to.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Ten, damage let's, Go but this is so.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
The to tie it back to Was foundation's. MISTAKE i
don't think so Man, like look at, This we've now
got agro that is two. Variations we have so many
different variants of. Agro there's monstrous rage, agro there's burn.
Agro AND i think this is one of the upsides
of seeing what is a three year standard combined with
a five.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Year like foundation.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Set we're seeing all these cards allow you to play you,
know every like like different versions of an. Archetype AND
i think that's really. Cool what's your flavor of burn or?

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Red we got, you and.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
What's your flavor of?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Control you have blue black right, now you have blue.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
White you've got the like the different versions of, It
you've got the numerous flavors of mid, range and you
even have. COMBO i don't know if you could ask for.
More AND i know the initial thing the concern, was,
well clearly all the new cards would just power creep
out all the old.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
CARDS i don't know if that's.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
True so, far we've seen a lot of the old
cards come. Back some old archetypes are getting, new like
new eyes, again AND i think that's. Good Like i'm
digging in and Maybe i'm. Reaching maybe this example isn't,
great But Blood Feather, PHOENIX i, DUG i dug, deep
AND i was, like, okay what's.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
COOL i just can't even believe that that. IS i
guess that's a great example of what you're talking. ABOUT
i want to, try let's a the definition of a.
Mistake maybe, okay, okay what if it's a mistake For
wizards Because foundations is too, good so nobody needs to
buy their new sets because they can build a deck

(38:15):
with Just foundations cards that's legal for five years and
they just ignore all other standard sets for five. Years
let me give, you let me give you my. PREMISE
i did. IT i built a deck that is All foundations.
CARDS i Destroyed. PLATINUM i murdered. IT i just it

(38:36):
was like the easiest rankup of my. Life what do
you think the deck was a take a.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Shot and it's All Foundations foundations it was not.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Burned what else would it? Be it was not Burn
what About? Elves it was Not? Elves that that was
the first THING i. Tried actually found it relies a
lot on some of The Dominaria United. Elves, YEAH i, think.

(39:09):
Yeah it needed a lot of help from other. Sets,
unfortunately So elves was not. It but that was the
first THING i.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Tried, well then you got a, lady give me the.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Tech what is?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
It it's fucking, cats, dude what?

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Cats it's? Cats it's freaking. CATS i don't, okay this
what a? Rabbo the first fang is two in a
white for to to two other cats get plus one
plus one cat and whenever another non token cat you
control and it's created a one to one white cat creature.

(39:45):
Token this stupid card just goes so ballistically wide and,
fast AND i know it doesn't sound like, much but
like you're Playing Helpful, hunter you, know you just have that.
Velocity you play that two mana in your draw. Card
you're playing the Sky Night. Squire this thing like triggers
itself off the arabo because it's a cat. Scout it's

(40:08):
a one in a white for a one to one
and whenever another creature enters put a counter on this
as long as this has three or more counters flying
and is a Night so like this card is like
flying like on turn like four and just just flying
over the. Top and the card that puts it over
like there's two of. Them one is Claws. Out have

(40:30):
you played with or against Claws out? Yet what is
that Claws out? Is, well it has text but in
a good go wides cat. Deck what it reads is
white white all creatures get plus two plus two at instant.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Speed oh so you're doing this with Like Savannah.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Lions, yes Well Savannah lions is, Yes you're you're going
from turn one just cat cat cat claws out and
often they deal or they put up a.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Fight.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Right so the card that also goes literally over the
top is good old.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
A Johnny, yes three Planes walker, right.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah good Old collar of The pride A johnny minus
three on this Three man of Planes walker is target
creature against flying and double. Strike and it just gets. There,
DUDE i don't know what to tell. You this deck
just gets. There my opponents were doing all kinds of sick,
things and you, KNOW i like my removal spells were

(41:37):
terrible because there were foundations only like look at the
white removal. SPELLS i was running like Two Valorous stance
and Two Stasis, snare AND i was running Like Felatar,
cub which was actually amazing against shelter by. Ghosts that's
the one that you sacked to kill an enchantment as a. Cap,
yeah it was just like it didn't matter as long
AS i could like clear one, thing or if they

(41:58):
couldn't kill, everything they just.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
Died it was.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Insane it is telling me the return Of White weenie
is here, maybe and we're talking like like true White.
Weenie if you've Got Savannah lyons in, there that's that's White.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Weenie, right, yeah, Yeah White Typal creature go BUR. I,
DUDE I i amazed. MYSELF i was, LIKE i was,
LIKE i don't need another. DECK i can play this
deck for five years and not craft another.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Card how how The.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Wizards make, Money, Krim they'll just release Another Marvel Secret
layer and it'll be it'll it'll balance that. Out Because
i'm gonna be honest you everything you've just said sounds.
Good this is all good.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
News this is one undred.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
News, Okay, wait you don't think. So you're telling me
IF i, decided, HEY i wanted to play, STANDARD i
bought into this cat deck AND i come back in three,
YEARS i can still play This cat. Deck I'm i'm.
A i'm A i'm the opponent of the meta.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Slave every DAY i have to wake up and come
up with something new to play that does. Well so
my fear is playing against the Same cat deck for five.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Years that's like my waking. NIGHTMARE i don't even think
like that's, good, Right, like if you can tell me
that there's one deck there.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
And it's the, same it's.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
This if it's Cat agro and not something Like Oco
simmic ramp or or or.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Something busted like.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
THAT i don't mind playing against that every. DAY a
format should have AN agro. Deck and remember we have
gone so long up until recently Where agro was just a.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
JOKE i mean three, three, sure.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Well but now best of Three agro is actually, respectable right,
yeah and best of one. Also for a long, TIME
i Think agro was still kind of a. Joke i'm
gonna be honest to. You oh, dude, dude.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
TRAUMA i have too much. Trauma, okay go, ON i
don't know where the.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Trauma i'm not here to question your.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Trying you know it's.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Valid but, like, DUDE i felt, like like Like agro
was just so bad up until Like Mono red recently rose,
up like with with like uh lay line and all
of that. Stuff that was When, Okay Mono red was
actually truly. Terrifying but if we're talking about An agro
deck being around for five, years that's. Good there should

(44:22):
always be. One and if it's and it's not like
it's doing anything, unfair, right it's going wide like Original White.
Weenies that's. Honest that's, Honest, master that's. Honest.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Magic you, KNOW i can't be too. Upset i'm trolling
a little about concerns About wotsy making. Money i'm not
concerned When i've seen the what's been going on?

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Lately uh for?

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Sure did you okay The marvel The Marvel Secret layer,
stuff anybody who's checked that. Out it's such a double
edged sword right now from a content creator's like, Perspective
i'll tell you we are making an episode with The
Marvel commanders because we're still insanely hyped about. It but

(45:04):
now there is that like back of your, mind, like,
yeah a lot of people who wanted these didn't get,
these and that. Sucks like that, sucks, dude that feels really.
BAD i hope they how do they fix? It by
printing them to the. Moon they should at least make
enough to meet. Demand hopefully they learned how badly people want, this,
Right hopefully they whatever amount they printed for, this it

(45:28):
sounds like they need to do like three to four
times as much next.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Time.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Right everything you're saying makes, Sense, yes that is. Correct
they literally also had the correct model to begin, with
which was like with The Extra life, one this is
the pixel one printed. Like they have a pre made.
Batch those will get shipped out. Early, yeah anybody after
a certain date gets it like six seven months down the,
line they had, it. Right but the one thing that

(45:55):
we are forgetting at the end of the, day this
is a collect card, game, right.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
And collector card.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Games but but, look let me.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Look the reason WHY i say that is because artificial
scarcity exists and is something that is good for for
like me As wizards to bring to like, partners, right, like,
hey we want to partner WITH i don't, know yu gi, Oh.
Pokemon look at this our stuff sold. Out they would
never do, that by the, Way but, uh the main
thing IS i GET i see why they're doing, it

(46:30):
and having been that person that tries to get comic
books like comic con uh, tickets music concert, tickets there's always, scalpers,
Right so there's, scalpers there's the super low.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Print just because Again.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Wizards wants to just say that they sold it, out
that's all a. BUMMER i think that's a huge. Bummer
AND i think the only reason Why i'm not like
super over like overly aggravated by it because even if
let's SAY i wasn't able to get, ONE i Think
i've been let down and suffered from just like missing
out so many times in my life through so many

(47:05):
other things trying to do this. Model, yeah PERSONALLY i
WISH i Wish wizards would change it back to The
Extra life model Because i'm thinking of this long term,
Wise i'm thinking this was a. Chance the whole, thing
the whole REASON i Love Universes beyond is because we
can get new. Players, yeah, right you get new players

(47:26):
in the. Game they're gonna be, Excited they're they're gonna be, like,
OH i built an Iron man deck and they're gonna
want to go to town on. That but they can't.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Because no new players got.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
It, yep nobody got, it which was kind of, terrible,
right let's not. Lie that is kind of. TERRIBLE i
think LIKE, i who was a part of the reveal, panel.
DIDN'T i had no special, ACCESS i had know. NOTHING
i was in the same line with, everybody and, like
the only REASON i got it is because my girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Got it for.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Me she she was in line on line exactly at
nine and she got in AND i my cue was
still an hour and a half after waiting three. Hours
she only had to wait like two hours and she got.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
In but.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
New, players this should be a perfect entry, point especially
With marvel because the amount of people That i've met
that have talked about being so excited to Build marvel
decks is, absurd and the fact that they Can't, wizards
you got to change. That you want to do the
limited model thing, Whatever make a special version of, it
like like glossy etched, Foil, yeah you know, whatever, serialized

(48:34):
go to. It, sure, crazy, yeah do, that but you
gotta make sure there's got to be something there that
like most people can. ACQUIRE i understand the, collectible the
collectibility side of, it so, sure but make it so
that the new players can get. Some, yeah and also
set a goddamn. Limit do not allow people to buy

(48:55):
more than.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
One it is very clear that is what.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Happened you can look ON tcs, Player you can look
On eBay like right, now and you can see people
already like have their offers up going at like it
looks like eighty four forty four is a going rate
for A Captain america, one you, know basically trying to
double their. Money eBay pre orders at one hundred. Dollars
some were sold near one hundred and fifty dollars last.

(49:20):
Week like it's clear that this was somebody else's. Rip
it and flip it business opportunity and, yeah they're absolutely
that shouldn't be that shouldn't be the, way, Right like
players want to play these, cards especially the nonfoil baseline, version,
Right like what you're, saying like the thirty dollars Secret Layer, bundle,

(49:44):
nonfoil non, specialized, like, yeah those you should have enough
of those to get into the hands of, players not just.
Scalpers that's THAT i think is obvious and IT i
think this makes me mad the most BECAUSE i AM
i am not one of the people angry About Universes

(50:04):
beyond being a consistent part of The magic. ECOSYSTEM i
have loved The Universes beyond expansion so. Far even some
of the ones that weren't necessarily for, ME i still.
Enjoyed LIKE i learned more About Assassin's creed And fallout
GAMES i never played because Of Universes, beyond AND i
actually like then watch The FALLOUT tv. Shows like the

(50:26):
crossing of the ecosystems works for some of, us And
i've enjoyed. It BECAUSE i literally only do magic ninety
nine point nine percent of the.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
TIME i can't see you enjoy. IT cgb people are
gonna yell at you and call you slop.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
GOBBLE i, KNOW i, KNOW i, know and and that has.
Happened that's happened enough to. Me i've taken.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
It i'm sure that you Understand.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
I've dubbed myself as slop.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Goblin so, yeah, yeah you're not gonna get us saying
that universe is beyond sucks on this. Podcast But i'm
confident neither of us believe that in any. WAY i
have actually enjoyed all of, it including the new audience
coming to, magic like new, players is really refreshing to
see people who aren't jaded by years of.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
History that's not to say we don't.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Love all of you who stick with us through all
the things that kill, magic but you should try if
you have an opportunity out. There people who have been
playing for ten plus, years go play with somebody who
hasn't played magic. Before it's a real. Experience like they
are just so. Excited you give them a booster. Pack
it can be a little play, booster not even collector.
Booster they get so excited they get absolutely blown. Away

(51:32):
the first time they Sanguine, bond exquisite blood. Combo you
like that is, refreshing AND i thought that universe is
beyond Especially. Marvel Particularly marvel was going to be a
huge gateway to, that and it kind of started on
A it started on a downer with people not being
able to play, It, like it's sad to see people
upset about, this AND i get why they're. UPSET i

(51:54):
wanted it to be more of a celebration That marvel is,
here you know WHAT i, Mean, yeah that's.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
What it sho have, been, Right but then, again you,
Know magic thirty should have been celebration of. Magic so
we know how that. Went we know exactly how that went.
GOOD i don't, know is it is it like the
the playing with a new player and and and. Whatnot

(52:22):
you kind of you touched up on, That AND i
think that's a great point because you'll see their joy
and the way they see. Magic right because we as enfranchise,
players you, know who people Have we've played for so,
Long we've seen so many, things you, know like the
spark kind of fades and like in our eyes for some.
People AND i think playing with people who haven't played

(52:45):
magic or like learning, magic it just definitely shows you
that this universe is. Beyond thing is.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Good you'll you'll see what we're talking.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
About you you can say what you, want you have
your opinion on, it but just do go out to an.
Lgscee what's going? On and, LIKE i think one of
the biggest things about this whole universe is beyond becoming more,
prominent this marvel. Thing you listen to, music right.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Seb it occasionally comes on in my general. Vicinity music
used to be my. LIFE i worked in a music
store like for over a, decade like that was my
one of my first career destinations till that business just.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Died but, YES i listened to music go.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
ON i mean you've probably heard, it, right, like, oh
people are like heavy.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Music, sucks it'll make them like how they used To, Metallica,
Slayer Yehan, terra that's, it. Yep and then you have
the next, wave, right you have the next wave of
people like the old guard is, like, ah y'all don't
listen to heavy. Music you don't know, metal and then you,
know the next wave comes in AND.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I think this is just, that, right you're just seeing
the next wave of magic players coming in BECAUSE i
think you saw. IT i saw it At magic On
vegas for the first. Time the Whole Goldfish, crew you're
playing hanging, out you, know our meet and greets and all.
That we met new, players like new players their first,
con their First magic, con they got into. Magic maybe

(54:10):
in the last, year we're, seeing LIKE i saw for
the first time in my, life a true of an
event where there was truly a younger demographic and not
just like the thirty plus crowd yep and dude magic
for for how many times we are all Yelling magic's
dying Or magic's.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Dead the game is more alive than, ever.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And you're seeing it and it's in its actual it's it's.
There it's not, hypothetical it's not, ANECDOTAL i guess it,
is but like you're seeing it when you just go
out and you're you're this is that this is exactly
the same. Thing maybe maybe your, magic your, idea your
version of magic is not what you're seeing, now but

(54:54):
like you're seeing the next version of it and it's
still your. Magic you just have to, like, yeah just
to open your mind to. IT i guess is a
little bit of more What i'm, saying because for, example
WHEN i got into, MAGIC i was considered part of
the what would you call AN Ntg Zoomer, wave, right
BECAUSE i got in around as like around like onslaught,

(55:16):
right it was still high fantasy.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Baby but it's a, baby absolute. Baby, yeah it's super.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Baby but people are, like Oh, Odyssey, Yeah magic's not
like how it used to. Be this is a talk
that has gone on since the, beginning.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Right and then my, god When Comic gawa came, out,
dude people were not happy about comic.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
First, comic the very first, comic the power, down the
oh my, god it's, like why are they taking stuff
from the real world and history and trying to put
that into our fantasy? Game, yeah the powering down from
what we talked about the Art Bound Ravager affinity. Days,
Oh Comic gawa was. Despised it was, despised.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yep, yeah and that was.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Now WHAT i Mean, now that's, honestly if you go
back and try to build a deck from those, cards
like A commander deck or, something it's really. Hard you
could see why it was such a power. Down BUT
i don't think anybody looks back At COMIC gwa right
now is like that those were the.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Worst that was the.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Worst people would gladly go back To COMIC, gwa LIKE
i think that that was one of the big. Successes
there's been some interesting, Sets like we could go through
the past few years of sets if we wanted to
and grade like was this good or was this a?
LOT i, mean you guys have talked about on The
goldfish podcast a. LOT i Think Comic gowa was the

(56:35):
biggest success from the last three years of magic.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
SETS i.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
DO i think it combined, yeah, Yeah Neon. Dynasty.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
YEAH i think it combined something old with something, new
and the whole THING i was super. CYNICAL i was
super cynical about like the technology and the anime, vibes
like getting into the fantasy. THING i think that set
nailed it in a way that no other set totally.
Has Maybe, bloomboro but like you compare to Like outlaws
of Thunder. Junction outlaws is a great, Set but what

(57:04):
felt more in that World Comic gwa Or. Outlaws it
Was Comic, Galwa LIKE i would live in The Comic
Gawa plane. FOREVER i think at that place was.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
AWESOME i, MEAN i love The Comic Gawa.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Plane BUT i think that's the.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Thing magic for some people is just only high, fantasy yeah,
right and they only like the high fantasy of which is.
Fine you know.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
That i'm not here to, yuck you're.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yum BUT i look At magic as what it, is, right.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Which is a multiversal.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Approach and you have that like you've you've been breaking
the high fantasy immersion since way back, when right because
Original Comic gawa was not received like all too, well
everyone hated that. Plane uh and then on top of,
that you, know people hated future site borders as. Well
like there's there's a lot of, things and right now

(57:53):
what you're seeing is just that. Again you're seeing more
of that. Again AND i Liked Comic gawa as a,
lot AND i don't even Think outlaws is just that
far out. There for, ME i think it all can
exist because it makes sense when you have the plane
Chasing And i'm not A i'm A i'm not like
a lortho of worthos kind of, person, Right but for,

(58:15):
ME i care about the, gameplay and, yeah like sometimes
the picture and the art and all. That that's that's
big because like some of the things that got me
into the game Was magic's. Art But magic has been
breaking its own immersion since, forever SO i don't, KNOW i,
mean all these sets LIKE i Thought outlaws was. Good
you know what's. Funny murders was.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
A cool idea terrible execution.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Set but now as we play more, standard do you
know how many cards From murders are actually getting?

Speaker 1 (58:46):
PLAYED i, dude you're talking to. Me, yeah Three Steps
ahead And deduce were in that.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Set, no, No, no three Steps? Ahead is Is? Outlaws is? It?
Yeah that's? Great you're.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Right, sorry it felt like it because the that looks
like a detective. Hat, ANYWAY i Got, deduce So i'm doing.
It you, know, Now murders was a good. Set it's
the one where the flavor felt the most. Forced it's
the one where THEY i think took a step too
far of putting a clue like thing inside of a
loved plane Of.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
RAVNIKA i think it.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Was just a step that was the step too far
THAT i hope they learned from when using their own
ip and trying to like force something into.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
IT i hope They what did you think About? Copenna?
Then i'm.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
CURIOUS i didn't Love. COPENNA i just don't love gangster.
MOVIES i don't love the that retro. STYLE i thought
the plane and the story and the cards LIKE i
thought they matched the vibe that they were going for,
well BUT i just, say it's not my. Vibe you
know that happened, Sometimes Like copenna was not my. Thing

(59:54):
the cards were. GOOD i still use. THEM i appreciate
The trylands. Especially i'm those will probably last. FOREVER i
don't have a lot Against. Kapenna it just wasn't my.
Thing the DIFFERENCE i think from The Clue set murders
is that they were taking the existing plane and warping

(01:00:16):
it around a, theme instead.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Of making a new plane with a new.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Theme LIKE i didn't want to See ravnica And ravenuska's
characters In Detective.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
HATS i didn't want.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
It just, SO i think that they do it right
when they keep things separate and make make the plane
the greatest that they can make that plane without injecting
a bunch of other stuff to try to sell.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It and that's LIKE i think we can.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Transition like there's a big concern about twenty twenty, five
right because this is going to be the first year
that there are six standard sets and half of them are.
Universes beyond like, that that's a hot, topic and it
seems to continue to be a hot. Topic replaced only
by The Marvel Secret layers, recently but is still a
thing that's mentioned on like every YouTube video about magic these.

(01:01:06):
Days The professor had a great video half Of Magic
won't Be. Magic so there's a lot of. CONCERN i
want to hear from you on. This What i'm saying
is and this is WHAT i. HOPE i hope that
what they take from this is that they take a

(01:01:29):
set Like Tarkier dragonstorm and they make it the absolute
best celebration Of tarkier. Possible they make it so great
that people who Play Tarkier dragonstorm only want to Play
Tarkier dragonstorm for the next six. Months and you know,
what if that's your, thing you, can you, know you
can kind of live in that world and Maybe Spider

(01:01:50):
man will invade it every now and then and you'll
have to use a removal spell on that little Web.
Slinger but, like if they, HAPPEN i hope that they
take this opportunity to make the sets that are in
The Magic universe and knock them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Out of the park.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Great if they do, that they might be able to
get away with this for the crowd that really needs that.
Immersion if they do that well, enough but what do
you THINK i?

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
MEAN I i first, OFF i, agree, RIGHT i think
like that was my issue With. Murders it Was ravnika
with hats when it could have just been A fedora, planet,
right a planet made Of fedoras, whatever just making new plane.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
A Welcome, No fedora is a good plane. Name welcome To.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Fedora, yeah where everyone is just a?

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Hat right. That, look you got The Bloomborough lily as a,
squirrel why not Have jase's a? Hat? Right, Okay SO
i agree that they should do, that and MY i,
Like i'm very excited for The Death race set because you,
KNOW i like the idea of a twisted metal kind
of Mad Max. Raccene Although i'm not a fan of the,

(01:02:56):
MOVIES i do like that like kind of A Death race. Vibe,
OKAY i want. MAGIC i Want magic to continue. DOING
i guess the plane, right like you had, mentioned Tark
here just has to be Tark. HERE i don't think
they need to add any gimmicks to, it just sell
it as Tark. Here. NOW i know that seems weird

(01:03:18):
because we just Had Neon, dynasty BUT i think the
one thing people are forgetting is That Neon dynasty Is
kamegawa in the, future which makes. Sense why you have
all the, Technology so it's not like they needed the.
Tech it's not like this force. Vibe it felt like
if it was for, us they did it well, right
because it was all the cyberpunky, look and that makes.

(01:03:38):
Sense so if you do it well and you you
do justice to that, PLANE i don't care where we, go,
DUDE i don't care what we, do as long as
you do justice to that. World and that's ALL i
can ask. For and as this next year comes, up
HOW i, Know, PROF i love, prof and you KNOW
i get. It half of magic is not. MAGIC i

(01:04:00):
think that is not entirely, true BECAUSE i do think
all of next year is magic because it's in magic
and it. Is. Like one of the funniest THINGS i
had heard was on The goldfish, podcast Right richard had
complained that these it was it was about The Secret

(01:04:26):
Layer marvel cards And he's, like the art on these
cards look like these characters in. Magic they don't look
like comic book. Characters And i'm, like so you're complaining
that these cards look like they're too in, magic like
it's too much magic and not original. Story uh, Huh,
huh isn't that a good?

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Thing, like don't you want?

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
THAT i agree with. You, Yeah LIKE i think it's
better if it. Doesn't like you can have your special
borders and like treatments that are like comic book varying the.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Card that's, great do, That BUT.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
I THINK i Want wolverine to look like how he
would In. MAGIC i Want Captain america to look like
how he Wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
MAGIC i think that's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Good so for next, year what's going to be very
important is does it look like it would be In?
Magic and the beauty of that is when it comes
to comic, books is that thanks to variant different like
numerous different, artists numerous different like comic book, covers it's
going to be hard to not make it look like

(01:05:31):
A Captain america card or A Captain America Spider man In,
magic because it'll just feel like. This Imagine magic is
the artist and they did this. Variant So i'm excited
to see how they bring these characters into this, world
what kind of artwork they're going to, Use and as
long as you make it feel like, magic that's ALL
i care. About and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
They've done.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
That be flavorfully sound to the character like we saw
In The Secret layer, already the attention to, DETAIL i
talked about it at my. Panel but the fact that
they're willing to play With CAP's manocost just to hit
the flavor. Notes m, hm that's. Good, yeah, right that
gives me a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Hope, yeah everybody has to comment on, it like it's
impossible not to talk about, red white And blue and
the ordering of the man of symbols on on The
Captain america card like it, Hit like that is a flexibility.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Move that is a. Hit so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Like the twenty fourty five, schedule we've Got Final. Fantasy
are you A Final fantasy?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Player i'm not gonna lie to. YOU i only started
in seven BECAUSE i was a nineties. Kid, OKAY i
have not played it at. ALL i have.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
NOTHING i was told seven is where the, game the
one GAME i should play before it comes out IF
i want to. Understand Final fantasy is WHAT i was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Told they just did a remake of, it and yeah they.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Told, me So i'm probably going to do. That like
these are the things that it gets, me As magic
player excited to just have like another look at these
BECAUSE i think they have knocked out the kind of
that character as a magic card. Thing not necessarily in
all secret. Layers some secret layers go way off the deep.

(01:07:15):
End but the sets they've released For, warhammer for A
Doctor Who, right For Assassin's, creed, LIKE i can play
a lot of cards from those sets and forget that
they were in those sets because they look and feel
like magic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Cards AND i think that that is something.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
That people are.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Underestimating people are talking about their immersion being ruined When
Spider man shows up in, Standards but there will probably
be a ton of cards in The Spider man set
that aren't, like you, know welcome To New York. City
you know they're Gonna they're going to be just cards
that work in the magic world in the way that
a lot of The Assassin's creed And warhammer cards, do

(01:07:56):
where you can forget completely what set they're.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
From lord of The rings another great example of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
That there's so many CARDS i use in so Many
commander decks THAT i forget were even in universes, beyond
to the point that WHEN i was told to MAKE
i was told to make a deck for a sponsored
episode that could have no universes beyond in it because
it required separate. Licensing that's a whole content creator thing
behind the. SCENES i screwed it up so. Badly we
had to restart that video three times BECAUSE i kept

(01:08:22):
Casting lord of The rings cards THAT i forgot Were
lord of The rings.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
Cards, like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
But that's that's a good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Thing, okay, yeah, exactly that's a good. Thing let me
let me ask you. This if they made a, card
and let's just say they called it Like Stanley's pizza In, brooklyn,
right would that bother you if it felt if they
made it look like How brooklyn would look In?

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Magic AM i going to see it every? Day is?

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
It is it a? Staple let's pretend that it. Is
it's a LAND i don't. Know it's.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Good it makes a food.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Token let's just assume that there's some absurdly busted food. Center,
sure but it's not going to break the game to
where it like warps the. Format but at the same,
time even if it did warp the, format is that
any different than Like, oco which was In?

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Universe so so it would it would definitely annoy me at.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
FIRST i would GET i would get used to. It
i've gotten used to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
WORSE i will say that it would be a bit
like if that were just like the best thing that
went in a bunch of. Decks, SEE i think there's
a big difference between acrobatic cheerleader something that's so clearly
inspired by the real world that is like a limited
card you see from time to. Time but and and
then like a standard staple like turn inside. Out if

(01:09:39):
turn inside out were you, know somehow related like, said
like you Said New York, pizza Bad New York pizza
instead of turn inside.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
OUT i think that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
That, YEAH i can see why people are a little
frustrated by. THAT i will, say you'll get used to,
it BUT i wouldn't begrudge anybody for having some comments
about that and feeling as certain way for a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
WHILE i definitely expect something like, that right because you got.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
It there's no way you're.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
In in in A Spider man set and you don't
have something related to the city that he, loves right,
because like you got, it The Daily bugle is A
New york, paper, right so so there's got to be
something like a hot dog.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
STAND i don't, know, right like like these are.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
These are all things THAT i expect to, See and
to be honest with, YOU i don't think it'll break
my immersion because, again it's a. Multiverse so when you
do multiversal, things it's. Okay, like, hell you could give
me A, jason like A mets, JERSEY i don't, care
or A yankees, JERSEY i mean, right like put Put

(01:10:44):
jason A yankees, jersey and and and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Like show me what it would look like If jace
were In New.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
York oh my, GOD i.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Okay now you're giving them new ideas for what to sell,
for like you, know styles on arena and oh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
God, YEAH i mean, god oh my. Gosh see that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Thing people look At universes beyond and they Think lord
of The, rings right and now yeah they're Thinking marvel
because that's happening and they probably didn't expect that at.
First but what we do get into territory of THE,
nfl we do get into territory of THE, Mlb like
these are things That i'm Sure wizards would love to

(01:11:23):
get some of that money and. Crossover collecting baseball cards
is a. Thing we've had the baseball card secret, layers, Right,
like this is stuff that's possible through a different kind of,
lens like a real world, lens Like Spider man, Saying
Spider man's a real world. Lens is you get WHAT i?
Mean it's set In New York, City it's set in
a real. Place so if they had a licensing agreement

(01:11:45):
with The yankees and The mets and had different versions
of a character in a baseball jersey like, that people
would want. That that would. Sell and that is, TERRIFYING
i think to some people who have only played magic
the old. Way BUT i think there's a way they
could do it, right you, know as a like special
card style only or things like. That but it's a

(01:12:06):
complicated little dance they're. Doing. Now you AND i have
talked about this off off. CAMERA i haven't talked about
on camera with. ANYBODY i don't think they're going to
do this schedule. FOREVER i don't think it's gonna be
Three Secret layers or, sorry Three universes beyond sets and

(01:12:27):
three Regular magic sets a year. FOREVER i think that
this is an opportunity that is presenting itself now that
people are knocking on their door and they're, like we
got to do. This we don't want to wait five
years to make what this latest property. Is that's giving
us like this opportunity to license, it LIKE i think
they are trying To they're trying to run with it

(01:12:49):
while it's. Hot what do you think that do you
think That Universes beyond is going to be half of
magic sets going? Forward or do you think that this
is a temporary?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Thing you, SEE i don't know if it will be something,
like it won't be like this forever because you, know
maybe this is just so that they can give themselves the,
room like if they wanted, to they could have half
the sets be, that, Right so they're gonna start. Strong
half the sets will Be Universes. Beyond, slowly maybe they

(01:13:19):
dial it, back maybe only this year will be four
in universe and then Two Universes. Beyond but it's, fine,
Right LIKE i guess the only concern is then will
they be upsetting the people that are expecting Half Universes? Beyond,
right because then it's like every, Year, oh what's the third?
Share like like you, know partner at, ip let's try
to guess it. Right but whether or not it is or,

(01:13:41):
ISN'T i don't know why everyone's making a big deal about,
it BECAUSE i don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
It matters because for, me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
As long as you obviously have some amount of in
universe sets because it sucks that there will be sets
That magic will try to do in universe and it'll
flop and be and then what are they going to
take that, As, oh, well why do we even want
to do in universe if they're all going to? Flop,
well you just Sell, marvel, right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Yeah, Yeah so if they make Another, murders it's going
to push them in the, direction, right if they make
Another crimson vow, right it's going to push them more
in the direction of more universes, beyond because they want
to sell and built an audience. Sells that's why ESTABLISHED
ip works across all these different.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Medias, YEAH i mean, Established like example, one like you
have one piece cards and you have one piece. Characters
they just they're just it's a strong ESTABLISHED, ip, Right
pokemon strong ESTABLISHED.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Ip.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Uh magic has.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Characters but you, know like we like, them but they're like,
Right we're, like, yeah it's, like OH i love this
D lister comic book. Character check it, out you, know
like like. Cool BUT i Hope magic doesn't pull back
on their planes because as much AS i Love marvel

(01:15:05):
AND i love the idea of, that you, know there's
AN ip for. EVERYBODY i do love magic making their own,
stuff BUT i don't want them to stay feel contained
where they can only make you know in a shrad
and only make you know. BLOOMBURROWS i want them to
take chances and murders was a shot they, whiffed that's,
okay draw put it, on like you, know learn what you,

(01:15:26):
liked what you, didn't and then do it. AGAIN i
like the idea they're going to try a death race.
SET i like that they're going to try a space opera, set, Right,
like these are all things That i'm okay with because
we don't get the magic we. Love if magic doesn't,
try that's magic doesn't try to get to these new.
Planes we wouldn't have had any On, dynasty. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
NO i mean if you just there's only a handful
of things in the history and now all thirty thirty
year history of magic that if you pulled the whole
audience of hey can we do this, guys they would have, said,
okay you can do. That everything else else that's new.
Interesting many things that turned out to be hits would
have been vetoed because people don't always know what they

(01:16:06):
want until they get it. Right it's and it's so
much more satisfying to get something you never knew you
wanted than to just say no to something that's different
because you don't know what it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Is it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Exactly, YEAH i one hundred percent support that they should
fire a lot of. Bullets and some people are gonna, say,
well why did they have to make this standard? Legal
why did they have to make this pioneer, legal like
when it could go and, hide when it could go
hide In modern and barely have an impact On modern
except for a handful of. Cards you, know don't let

(01:16:39):
the wond ring hear me say, that but you know
WHAT i, Mean like ninety nine percent of the set
is like kind of flushed out Of, modern but there's
always like the one or two. Cards they had to
do this In. Standard they had to because they don't
want new players coming into the game and feeling like
they can only play their cards In commander Or. Modern

(01:17:00):
standard should be a place where new players can play their.
Cards and if these are the cards new players are
willing to, buy they have to do. That they have
to do that as a. BUSINESS i THINK i am
surprised it took this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:14):
LONG i really.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Am i'm. Shocked Same i'm surprised it didn't start, here
to be honest with, you because like this is also
better in my opinion for design as. Well you no
longer have to make forced cards that go into like,
modern like one ring is a product of the pressures
of making a card that has to be iconic but

(01:17:36):
also break into. Modern now you go into stand if
you're designing for, standard this means that you can balance the,
setout you, know see what trickles, back because you're not
worried about forcing cards from The lord of the rings
to see.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Play you're just going to see what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Naturally and, organically and if it goes back to, modern
which is kind of also a designed Philosophy i've always
like believed. In it is that if you just start
with standard for, it don't, worry don't design for, commander
don't design for. Anything let it all kind of just trickle.
Down your standard is the first thing you should be designing.
For everything else would just slot in and see how
where the pieces fall. Afterwards AND i think that's the

(01:18:14):
way this should.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
BE i don't, KNOW i mean right like, THAT i.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Want them to just make cards like how they want
to make. Them, okay we're gonna Make daredevil or OR
i don't know whoever else Like Green, goblin, right whoever
shows up In Spider? Man, right? Yep, great make, them
make them the way you want to make, them make them,
great make them feel like like it is a card
you wanted to build and make from from design, space

(01:18:41):
and then if it, happens they get played and modern.
Awesome this now means they don't have to do any
absurdly busted powercrep. Things then, again like current standards pretty,
powerful but, like, yes like the card, game, right there's
always the.

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
One, yeah there's always the.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
One that like sneaks through.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Ring some would say that seeks to yes or orchish Bow, masters, Right, like, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
My process is not any of. That my process is
that do they have enough people testing their? Game?

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
Yes that is the all of this. Stuff there's so.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Much noise right, now and none of it is actually
tackling the actual. Issue and the funny thing, is, now
after like an hour into the, PLOT i don't know
how long we've been in the, podcast, right but the
point is now that we're finally getting to. It the
actual problem is we're going to see six sets a
year not a concern as long as you can promise

(01:19:36):
me that you are actually going.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
To test these six.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Sets uh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Huh it does seem like there was a period where
they just kind of stopped testing and thought they'd use
like a retroactive like you, know ban it till it's,
fine and that gave us.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
Ldrain oh, god.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
LOOK i the problem though with l drain was that
they didn't just ban it when they needed. To they
let it sit and. Simmer it's too.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Long LIKE i think that it's easy in a boardroom to,
say let's go balls to the wall and will ban
if we have, To and then it's hard when it's,
like oh, no it's time to rip the band aid,
off and you, know it has to go through levels
of bureaucracy that are, like, wait we need to sell these.
Cards it's selling for how? Much how many people play?

(01:20:25):
This what's going? On you, know when you look At,
arena they probably have exact numbers of how many cards
have been, crafted, yeah and what's been crafted.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
And what refunds they're going to.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
GIVE i think THAT i think that when you end
up in that, world it's. IT i THINK i think
well intentioned people can say to themselves and to a
room full of other well intentioned people that if this,
happens we will take. Action and then when it's time
to take, action it's harder and scarier than you thought it.

(01:20:57):
Was and that's just a human, experience and it would
and maybe that is something they've. LEARNED i hope it's
something they've. Learned but we see a Continued now we
have specific ban. Windows now we have interesting action or
lack there of action on certain, formats like the bands
have been very interesting since that. Time they banned Lay

(01:21:21):
line In best Of one, standard WHICH i didn't. Expect
did you Know Monstrous rage got banned In?

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Alchemy, yeah it got A alcema fied or, whatever right
the band it got.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Banned they said they couldn't figure out a way to
change it in a way that made sense without making
the card unplayable and keeping the spirit of the, card
so they banned it, instead which is. Unharmed like that
was the whole point Of. Alchemy we can rebounce, things
we don't have to ban. Things they looked At Monstrous
rage and they said we can't do, it and they banned.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
It i'll be honest with, you THOUGH i don't think
you can fix, that, Right it's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Interesting there's a lot of THINGS i think you could,
Do like what would it be good after the?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Fix, right because you gotta, remember think about how far
we've come from combat tricks that is. Whatever, yeah, right
like like that was like maybe the closest thing to.
Playable it only took twenty five years for finally a
combat trick that was actually. Good and when it's finally,

(01:22:24):
good you're gonna abandon, it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Like, yeah that's, Wild like that feels. Bizarre so we
can't say they're not taking, action but that it is
kind of bizarre.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
Action it's very.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Different, yeah it, is, so, yes if they are testing
these and the gameplay is, FUN i think that if
the gameplay is, fun it will rise above the other.
Things and that is something that is hard to speculate
on when you're a concerned fan looking at the calendar
wondering if you're going to Like Final, fantasy or if

(01:22:57):
you really want to Play Spider, man or if you
ever needed a space set In edge Of. Eternities but
if they, are if they are doing the gameplay, WELL
i think it will rise Above it always has it
has for so, long for so, long when the game is.
Good people come, back not just new people coming, in
but people coming. Back Every magic player is just waiting

(01:23:20):
to come.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Back it seems, LIKE i, mean we're at a critical
mass right, now, right like this is some of the
of magic just being in the. Limelight, yes magic right
now is. Booming this is the best we've seen magic
in so, long right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Yep so, LOOK.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
I, KNOW i know some of y'all are like groaning
and just like there's no, way but it's. Real you're
seeing magic, Grow you're seeing it be popular and like
now it's getting up, there right AND i we're seeing.
That like that's Why wizards is doing The oh we're
gonna do multiple different card. Treatments we're gonna we're trying
to catch The pokemon k like you, know the one

(01:23:59):
piece sing and all of. That, like.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Magic is, growing it is, changing it is.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
Evolving but the main thing at the end of the,
day what is magic at its, core it's. Gameplay its
gameplay is so. Good pokemon can be the biggest casual game.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
Ever sell all the, packs but look at the player.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Base as someone who plays that, game there's a negative five.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
People there's like negative five.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
People you can build a standard deck for thirty dollars
because no one plays. It everyone collects. It the best,
cards the most valuable cards are trash like. Unplayable they
have no. Players you're saying they have no people who
play the. Game that's the weird. Thing if you look
At POKEMON, tcg it is predominantly collecting no one. Like

(01:24:44):
i'm not saying nobody plays it BECAUSE i play. IT
i like THE i think the game is, fun but
it's you, know magic is playing. First so everybody that
is worried about the death Of magic should not be
worried about the death of magic BECAUSE i don't Know
SpongeBob is coming to the. Game it could be blank white, squares,
legitimately blank white. Squares as long as the cards are,

(01:25:10):
good the play patterns are, good the game is. Tested
the six sets a year has me worried about. That
that's the only. Thing, yeah are you testing?

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
This because my only my main concern.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
And what Makes magic outlasts and like just persevere through
the years and years and years and continue to grow
and change and become everyone's favorite hobby is because it's
such a good. Game, yeah, Right and, again it's Not
SpongeBob it's not any of that stuff that's gonna make
it so the game. Sucks let's promise you. NOT i
promise you it's not. That as long as the game is,

(01:25:44):
good that's all that. Matters and that is SOMETHING i
am worried about when it comes to six sets a.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
YEAR i do think that if the game, suffers and
if the audience actually does start to leave in, mass
that they will correct like, that like that that is
the kind.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Of thing that they have to. Correct SO i have
faith that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
While not every year Of magic will probably be as
great as the last one or some of the ones
we've had in the, Past i'm sure it will correct
if it has. To So, pokemon is is that this
thing that you've been? Doing you told me you want
to tell me about another game you've been?

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
Doing is?

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
That what is this?

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
THING I so my wife started Playing, pokemon but she
has nobody to play. With she complains about this all the.
TIME i don't know anything about this, game BUT i
know IN la last weekend everybody was on their phones
doing it all the time and being like look at
this and look at. This i'm, like what is happening right?

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Oh you're talking About Pokemon pocket that's a different. Thing
oh see that that is it is an it's a mobile.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
Game That'll they nailed.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
It they somehow figured out a way to make it
fun to crack packs, digitally whereas like you, know when
you're on, arena you're, like Oh, god please skip to the.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
End don't let me do this every.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Day it actually reduced the fun of opening packs and
it took me a while to get the joy back
BECAUSE i did on an arena for so many years
THAT i had like drained the joy of opening packs from.
MYSELF i was, like there's no wild cards in these physical,
packs so what DO i?

Speaker 4 (01:27:09):
Care, YEAH i.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
Just want to open all and be done with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
It so why does it? Work why does it? WORK
i think it works and this is. Gonna this is
the main thing That magic now needs to fix and
maybe work, on is that it works because It's, pokemon
because it has such a small percentage of player, base
and more so a player like a collector base than
a player, base if you. Will the experience Of pokemon

(01:27:35):
is leaning into the casual side of, it which is
the pack. Opening you're seeing all the content out there that's, like,
oh box, OPENING i spent one thousand dollars On pokemon.
Cards this is WHAT i got. Right you're seeing people
who like some of the popular content is people going
around and trading with people trying to complete a. Collection
magic doesn't have. That no one cares if you complete your.
Collection no one cares about any of that, stuff, RIGHT

(01:27:57):
i MEAN i know THAT i. CARE i personally like,
That but that's not.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
The content that pops.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Off. Right maybe if they, do it's for monetary, gains and,
like oh my, GOD i think there's a better way
to do, that Because pokemon has that, right and so
that's why you they nailed. It pokemon knows it's player.
Base pokemon leaned into the casual side of. This they
give you, fancy exclusive artwork that you can only get in.

(01:28:23):
Game they made these borders called immersion, borders where if
you open it and you click on, it it's a
whole cut scene if you wanted, to.

Speaker 3 (01:28:32):
And it does in a way where it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Intrusive, yeah there's a whole cut scene and it takes
you into the scenery of the. Card, also the game
casually rewards you by building a community where you can
upvote other people's like. Creations you can have a digital.
Slab you can make a digital binder and display to
display your favorite, cards and people can upvote if they

(01:28:56):
like the theme of.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
It it sounds like it's taking From animal. CROSSING i
picture my wife's showing off her, island, right and you're
showing off your. Cards, yeah how do you show off
your cards In Magic. Arena it's it's basically. Impossible you. Don't, yeah, yeah,
yeah that's your best. Shot, Right, no that's this that's so. Different,
Okay i'm looking at somebody's immersion.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Cards look at, them and then an. Example, right what
is something that we just recently got At Magic. Con
we finally got graders like you, Know, beckett all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Stuff, yeah they just showed up that like out of.
NOWHERE i was, like oh my, gosh there's all these slab.
Places now we're finally getting stuff like.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
That but, Look pokemon community been doing it for a.
WHILE i got a, ganguar you, KNOW i just got
back FROM. Cgc let's not discuss which company to go.
With that's the whole nother. Topic but the point Is
magic needs. This magic needs to find a way to
get people like this who are going out getting their
yards slabbed and just celebrating their game outside of, magic

(01:29:59):
like as, in like you Have pokemon with the STRONG, ip,
right you? Got you?

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Like but that's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
Fine You maybe let's say you don't have A pokemon
CALIBER ip because who, does they're the number one. Iph
but how do you grow your casual collector? Base AND
i think this is how Where Universes beyond comes, in
by the, WAY i think that's why this is. Cool
Universes beyond grows your casual collector, base assuming that you
allow them to actually get the, cards by the, way

(01:30:26):
not not this weird secret layer model allowing people to do.
This i've had some friends, like, OH i GOT i
just got The captain In america.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
DROP i want to send it off to get.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Graded this is. Good, yeah this is what you, want,
Right like this is you want people to love your.
Cards and for some of, y'all don't. Worry i'm there with.
YOU i gott into magic because it's art, Too So
i've got magic cards slabbed as.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Well BUT i turn it turns Out i'm of the.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Minority not many magic players do. THIS i don't have.
ONE i have.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
BOXES i don't HAVE i don't have a slab. CARD
i don't own. One i've never thought of you have? Them,
yeah they're just hanging out in a. Binder, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
In a, binder just like in The Like i'm, like uh,
OKAY i guess you know your, collection you know your your,
decisions you do whatever you. Want, man it never occurred to.
Me THEY i had to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Have so this is the part where if you've watched
this far, in or if you've watched me on like
Rare in Or cimo's, channel maybe you don't know the
extent to. THIS i only play magic and don't like
stick my head into almost anything. ELSE i didn't know
what slabbing. WAS a website was, like are you doing
something for Slab? Weekend it was is one of the

(01:31:36):
what not competitors Drip Shop. Live they were, like are
you doing something for a slab? Weekend i'm, like what
does that? MEAN i had no, Idea like what are
you talking?

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
ABOUT i don't know what's going?

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
On so, yeah it's just like these are things that
are just completely weird to, me that are completely new to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
ME i, mean this is but this is what we
want Right like you're seeing, bgs you' Seeing. Beckett maybe
someday we'll SEE cgc or LIKE PSAs and you'll see
them more at, cons because this is the. Upside AND
i Think magic, cons believe it or, not are a
part of. This they may not be like there yet,

(01:32:12):
fully but they are a part of. This they allow
people and new people specifically to go and Celebrate magic
and become a part of the. Community So magic has
been in the last couple of years been doing a
retooling and a re like kind of like a rework
on what their game. Is and some people will say
they hate where it's. Gone but the one Thing i've
always wanted Is magic to move towards a con, experience

(01:32:34):
and they've done. That in doing, so they bring more casual,
people they bring more people that just love the game
for numerous reasons that aren't just. Gameplay so this is
What magic, needs AND i think, that like believe it or,
NOT i think this is How magic thrives and propels
itself into the very like to last, forever.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Actually learning from their competitors instead of living in in
a bubble LIKE i have lived in for the last of.
Years it's, like, hey IF i can pop this bubble
and go like try to explore and learn about this.
Stuff i'm one of the most entrenched magic players you'll ever,
see to WHERE i literally don't play any other games
or even follow a lot of other things in pop.
Culture so IF i can do, It i'm sure other people.

(01:33:16):
CAN i met people At magic on On day one
On friday that never played a game of. Magic they
they were they came to The cohn to play their
first game of. Magic sick is that they were. Crazy that's.
WILD i could NEVER i want to SAY i could
never do, that but my first tournament ever actually was

(01:33:37):
a pro, Tour so so, YEAH i guess when you're
young and you're just like starstruck and you just like
the opportunity to do the thing is, everything and you
have none of that insecurity about what if they don't like?
Me what IF i don't know how What i'm? Doing,
yeah that's kind of, amazing, Right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
YEAH i MEAN i saw people running around showing each
other their binders Like i'm talking og playground. RULES i
don't feel Like i've seen that In yeat a long. Time, yeah,
yeah what the hell is going? On? Right? Like that
is awesome because that was me as a kid and
it's just, like, yo check this. Out and they held
the binder at someone And i'm just like that's, awesome,

(01:34:19):
Right like that's what you. Want.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
YEAH i think the moral of the story is that
they should probably Play Pokemon pocket because that actually sounds
kind of insane to have a digital collecting experience that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
Works i'm sure they.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
Are i'm sure they're taking. Notes and then the other
moral is probably you, know magic is, dead long lived. Magic,
yeah magic's dead. Again we're. Back

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