Blood and Gold: Hangman and Swerve Rivalry

This episode is about one of AEW’s most intense rivalries, Swerve Strickland vs Hangman Adam Page. We’re breaking down the full story, from the first shot fired to the last blow landed.
We cover:

• Swerve showing up on Dynamite and calling out Hangman
• The personal shots that made this feel real — calling Hangman a failure, dragging his family into it
• WrestleDream and how Swerve shocked everyone by beating him in Seattle
• The insane Texas Death Match at Full Gear — probably the most violent match in AEW history
• What this feud did for both guys: Swerve stepping up as a future world champ, and Hangman showing he still has that fire
• How this rivalry helped build momentum heading into 2024 and reshaped the main event scene

This wasn’t just a feud for the sake of it. AEW gave it time, let it breathe, and it paid off in a big way. Swerve felt like a made man after this, and Hangman reminded people why he was AEW’s first real homegrown champ.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And welcome to Cruising okfe about Mongo. In today's episode,
we're going to do a deep dive and probably one
of the best men's rivalry and all of wrestling. We
already did the best women's rivalry and all about Mariah
cheap Plug. Check that episode out on YouTube. So now
we're going to do the best men's rivalry, Blood and Gold,
Hangman and Swerve the Path to Redemption. So, I know

(00:56):
Emily is a big fan of Hangman and Swerve. I
know you guys are a big fan of Hangman Squere.
I mean we tease the episode, we had at least
three people on Twitter and three people on Facebook say yeah,
we should do it, So, you know what, let's deep
dive in this rivalry.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
So I actually thought that this started way sooner than
it did. I was shook when I realized that this
didn't even start until twenty twenty three and September.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, I mean really, it started on the heels of
all In twenty twenty three, Darby Allen and Swerve had
the you know, infamous coffin match. Swerve comes right out
of the gate and he confronts Hangman. So essentially the
first dynamite after all in. Swerve comes out and decides
he's going to confront Hangman and he wants to get
himself in the title picture, and he figures, I'm gonna

(01:41):
go after Hangman since you don't have the spot, I mean,
since you don't have that spot anymore and you are
getting fat and lazy, it's my time to shine. So
he kind of comes out and shows us true colors
that hay Man's just happy to be here. He's fat, dumb,
and happy signed his new contract. But it's Swerves time now.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, He's tired of seeing people that you know, feel
like they were fed with a silver spoon in the company.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
And he very famously says, if I had the same
opportunities you had, I'd be I'd be aw's first black champion,
so kind of foreshadowing what would happen later on. But
he wasn't too happy that Hangman seemed to waste his opportunities.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, and Swear has so much heart when it comes
to wrestling. It's really incredible to watch his development in
AEW it really is.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
And when he first came in in twenty twenty two
and he had that suit and tie and you know,
Shane Strickland fresh out of Wee. You were like, oh,
I can't wait to see what he goes. And he
had a great year and a half before all this happens.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Everything really compiled small but steady.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
It did. I mean, that's swerven our glory. Ron really
showed his vindictiveness. I know we've talked about before, but
when he broke Daddy asked his fingers, when the acclaimed
rivalry and he basically had him kidnapped, it showed his
sadistic side. I didn't think he would get more crazier,
but we find out he will.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Nick Wayne was still a baby.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh my god, the way him and Air of Fox
just blooding him up and beat him up in his
own gym. And again both Seattle Pride and everything with Darby,
it just it really showed he could go to a
dark place, and it almost seemed like he wanted a
hangman to go to a dark place, which I'm sure
now in hindsight he probably kind of regrets.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I can't imagine they're not being regret with how far
he truly pushed hangman. And now, I mean, we'll get there,
but I feel like we're on the rise. The sun has.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Set I wouldn't say the sun is set quite yet.
I think the fire is always gonna burn. I think
there's always gonna be something stoking those flames, maybe rising
from the ashes, but the ashes had to get there somehow.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
True. I guess we should start with where it all began.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, So, like I said, it started in September six,
twenty twenty three, Swerve came out and can fronts Hangman
and basically says, you know I didn't have the opportunities
you have. You've wasted it. You signed a new contract,
You've built this company with your friend. I've done everything.
If I had those same opportunities, I would be champion.
And Hangman kind of was insulted and he walked away,

(04:16):
and then as he was walking away, Swerve says, oh good,
have your wife and kids see you. Walk away. Another time,
Hangman pauses and he turns around and he kind of
restrains himself, but then he goes in. So Swerve already
got under his skin that first promo. He got under
his skin, and he talked about one delight of fire
in him. And then Swerve and Hangman would kind of

(04:37):
have a back and forth for a little bit. You
would have Swerve and prints not coming out the next week,
and he would double down against Hangman again. He says, listen,
you had every opportunity in the world. You failed. You
failed the company, you failed yourself, you failed the fans.
If he had the opportunities, he would be at the
face of aw and then you had a week later
after that you have Hangman responding back, He's earned everything

(04:59):
Swern's Swerve's done nothing, He's done nothing to earn it.
Hayman earned it. He climbed the top of that out
in twenty twenty one, he had heartbreak in twenty twenty three.
But then it would all collide at the contract signing
because now they're on the path to their very first
match of residroom. But then they would have a vault
of contract signing.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
They would and we noticed a lot of foreshadowing in
these first three weeks. Swerve is constantly calling him out.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
These constant calm out and then did he what did
he say specifically to Hayman, because Hangman started to kind
of get passionate over the weeks to lead up to
this contract signing.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
He said, I've been really impressed by the fire you've
been showing the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
So three weeks in they talked about lighting a fire
under Hangman, making Hayman earn his respects. Swerve is the man,
and it really led heavily on Hangman. Hangmo was doubting himself.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
And Swerve was already telling him it's too late.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, he said, it's too late. You can't turn him back.
The fans turned on you. He was a heel in
thes were already chanting whose house, Swerves house? And the
cocky swear really showed when him laughing at that contract signing.
But then a little Hangman started to break. He stabbed
him with the pen as he goes. So, I don't
know what it is, but if you sign a contract

(06:14):
with Swerve, it's going to be in blood, whether his forehead,
whether you stabbed him in the hand. Contract signs and
swear have always been bad for him. So there's a
lot of staple guns in this rivalry too, a.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Lot of staple guns, guys. I counted seven serve alone, right, And.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's just you would think the way this rivalry started,
they would already go that way. But no, they would
want to go to Tacoma to a wrestle dream, you know,
Swerve saying, you don't know what it's like in Seattle,
but being in Seattle. There was one thing in the
promo that led up to this match. In the promo
package as well as the contract signing, Hangman talked about
how there's been a dark cloud over him. He came back,

(06:57):
he reformed the Elite, and and he just there's a
dark cloud and it's always raining. And Swerve just leans
in and says, it always rains in Seattle. Get used
to it, Cowboy show me what cowboy shit is. And
it's just he seemed to provoke him more and more,
and he wanted to bring something out of Hangman, and
this first match I think they did. They didn't, you know,

(07:21):
get bloody hardcore yet, but it was a war. They
were knocking each other around. There was there was a
dead eye on the apron, there was multiple Swerve stomps,
swear stump on the apron. They threw each other into
the ring posts. Swerve was trying to break his arm
the entire match, and then he hit him with prints
on his headband. Kind of got the win after two,

(07:41):
after two house calls, so he took it to another
love and cheated to win, so Hangman kind of felt cheated.
But he lost that first match to Swerve and he
goes backstage and he's holding his arm. He's like, I
just need to have nurse his arm and he rehab.
I need to think of things. He may have won,
but he didn't win the right way, and Swerve was
riding high because that first match, he's already got the

(08:04):
first victory on Hangman. He's already on the path of
the World Championship, and it's just it's crazy to think about.
That was the first ever wrestle dream too, so not
only was it in the Seattle Tacoma area, it was
the first wressel dream and who would know? Who would
have known?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Then?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
I should say, not only we would get their debut
of Copeland, but would also get probably the start to
one of the best rivalries in AW. Like every pay
per view in AW has some sort of implication on
the future, and it's wild when you go think about.
One of the things they talked about was how Hangman
wasn't even all out and think about where this feud's

(08:41):
going to go. So they planted the seats for everything
from the very first one when they talked to the
end of this feud, so we would start leading into
a little bit more Hayman kind of going down the
rabbit hole and going crazy here because he would come
back after Wrestle Dream and he would have some issues
with Swerve still he would attack him with a chair.

(09:02):
He just he didn't feel like he had finished business.
He would see Swerve cheat against Dan Garcia using the
same techniques he did using the headband, taking out Garcia.
Hangman didn't like it. He was upset. But then the
ultimate act of betrayal October eighteenth, twenty twenty three, Swerve
breaks into Hangman's fucking house.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Looks over that crib. It just cuts one of the
craziest promos.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
And he was just taunting him the entire time. He
called him a cowboy living on the ranch. He called
him a coward, and he's just leaning over the credit
baniacally and not just staring there knowing that it's just
going to destroy Hayman. This is the first time it
really started distracting Hayman from his normal matches, as normal mission.
He was now inside his head because he broke the

(09:51):
ultimate trust of any father. Someone breaks into your house
is in your child's room, even if your kid's not there,
that safety has been violated, that feeling of security is gone.
And to see a man that you just went to
war with one up even more. Not only was he taunting,
you know, he making fun of you. Now he's breaking

(10:12):
and entering, so like he's doing everything he can kind
of be the bane to hit the Batman. He's not
trying to just break him physically, He's trying to break
him mentally. To quote that bane, I wasn't sure what
break first, your mind or your body, and he clearly
he was trying to do both.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, and that again is something that continues. They break
each other in every way possible.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, it's I remember there was a very famous promo
afterwards Haman bowed revenge. He said that this is not
gonna happen. This is really what showed Hayman starting to
just get that next level. Moniacle. The one quote that
I wrote down that stuck with me is you are
not the man you think you are. You are a coward.
And he just delivered it with such passion energy. You

(10:56):
knew that this next matchup was gonna happen between him,
wasn't going to be a normal one, two, three, haha,
shake hands. No, this was heading towards a fight, and.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
This was only after one match, correct.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Correct, it was only after the first pay per view match.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
So in all these different types of promos, now they've
only had one match. Think about that storytelling, and you.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Know they would have a lot of run ins and
they would have a lot of brawls leading up to this,
but it's what it ultimately led to, is leading to
Full Gear and the Texas Death Match, which, let me
just tell you, hangman Texas death matches already want to
know against John Moxley. He referenced that to Swerve in

(11:39):
the very first promo, so more foreshadowing. He talks about
how I beat John Moxley in a Texas Deaf match.
She became the hangman. Swerve told him, now I'm the hangman.
Now I'm gonna be the judge, the jury, the executioner.
So there was already volatile stakes online, so you have

(12:00):
to imagine that when this match finally plays out, the
raw emotion that happens because you have one of aw's
most brutal matches with the blood, the weapons, the emotion
storytelling his peak, you mentioned the staple guns.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, so this match, saw.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Would you say like five staples easily?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Five? I meant staple guns. I have seen Swervey's a
staple gun in nearly every match with Hangman.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
It was just one of the craziest matches. You had
the barbed wire buckshot, you had them him hanging Hangman,
you had them drinking each other's blood, you had the
tribute to Bray Wyatt and Terry Funk. Both men just
were destroying each other's whole match. But Swerve came out
on top.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Again, do you know how he came out on top?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Why don't you tell us how she how he came
out on top.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
So we also saw glass and a big sheet of
barbed wire attached to a piece of wood which errors
under it. We saw chains being used, and that's how
Swerve won with a chain around Hangman's neck between the ropes.
Like Hangman did a New Japan to a lot of

(13:14):
opponents with his noose.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
He did, and he kind of a callback to the
Moxley death match. So you know, you have this brutal match,
the injuries come from it. A little bit happens in December.
They're still going after each other, They're still wanting to
destroy each other. In the meantime, Full you have World's
End happen. Smojo wins the world title from MJFMGF got

(13:40):
hurt at Full Gear, so now there's a target on
Somemojo's back. Both Swerve and Hangman are clamoring for that title,
but they look at each other and Hangman says to Swerve,
that's not your title, and I'll see you never win
that title again. So Hangman's whole mission at this point
is to make sure Swerve does not win that title.
I don't want to say again apologize I jump ahead

(14:02):
is to not win that title. He only damn sure
of it. And everything about this lead up to Revolution
was just back and forth mindfuckery. You had Hangman completely breaking,
You had him faking an injury with a crutch and
him saying I can't be in this match and attacking Swerve.

(14:24):
You had him focused on nothing but Swerve. Everything he
was doing every match, he was just he wasn't himself anymore.
He really started to turn. He wasn't full heel yet,
but he was really leaning towards the darkness.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
And they ended up having a match on Dynamite.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
And they ended up tying, so there was no win.
Hangman basically said he should have won. So again more
that I don't want to say breaking but breaking point
because at this point, now he's zero and two to
his rival, people are starting to cheer Swerve. He's really
starting to gain popularity now. Also, cheap Plug, we went

(15:04):
on the cruise. This is really when Swerve was getting
over with the crowd more. This is a second chair
of a cruise. People are starting to get behind him.
The push for him to be champion was real. People
could see it. Revolution planted the Seeds, Swerve and Samoa Joe.
Hangman was right there and Joe said he's gonna kick
both their asses. He doesn't care, but he knew that
they were against each other and he could take advantage

(15:26):
of that. So this whole build to the triple threat
was great because Hangman said it should be a one
on one match, but it's a triple threat match. So
he even planted the Seeds that it's not fair that
Swerves in this match because everything he's done to Hangman,
he's not paying a penalty for.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Not just that, but it's not fair to Swerve either.
Swerve was two an oh to Hangman, should he have
been the only one in that match? On the counter
of that, and also now these men have been in
the ring together in singles actions three times. They know
each other exactly. That knowledge is good and bad depends

(16:03):
on who you are, and they can utilize that to
fuel everything that they're going to go through. And unfortunately
they also couldn't forget that with their match with Samoa Joe.
They couldn't put themselves aside, and it really cost both
of them, it did.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
But being there, we were there live for this one,
so we really got to see and feel the emotions.
So as we were talking about the builds of this matchup,
you have Hangman calling swear of a fake leader and
calling him out, saying, you know, just because the crowd's
behind you, you don't deserve it again. You know. In
February a couple of weeks about a week boy Paider
view saying I can't go to this pain view and

(16:40):
he tax him with a crutch, basically saying I was
playing you all along. Obviously I'm in this match to
revolution happening. So revolution comes, the crowd goes crazy for Swerve,
and even if you watch any video can hear. I've
never been in a crowd that has cheered that loud
for a heel, because at this time, Swerve was still

(17:00):
a heel. He wasn't a full blown babyface, just like
hey Man was still a babyface. But this match, and
we said it during our review, a double turn happens,
they both switch.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
It was incredible to be there, to feel the energy
in the room, just everything about that. It was almost
as good as Asprey's debut.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
It was and I look back and I'm just so
glad we got to see a part of this feud
because not only was the build fantastic to it, but
the match itself. You have Samoa Joe, so normally in
a triple threat match, you got to team up, but
they're not teaming up, so Samoa Jo is getting all
these opportunities to blindside them because you'd have Hangman tunnel
vision on Swear the entire match. To the point Smojoe,

(17:46):
like you said, took advantage that after Hangman got hit
by a house call, he got put in a Cookina
clutch and choked out. Because both SMO and Joe and
I mean, excuse me, both Hangman Server are so focused
on each other. They forgot about the biggest, baddest threat
in the ring. One of the most iconic things I
remember from this match is when Swerve's laying on the ground,
Hangman's kind of staring at him, but he's lingering. He's

(18:07):
just lingering looking at Swerve on the ground outside the ring.
He hits the buckshot, he sees Swerve, Swerve comes in,
he does the house call, and that's just when the
rest of it happens and Swerve chokes up. But it's
just that moment of he hesitated. If Hangman hasn't didn't
hesitate and focus all his energy on Swerve, he could
have won that title of Revolution. So just seeing the

(18:31):
subtle little nuances that they told in the match of
I don't give a shit about winning, I give a
shit about hurting you. Because again they've gone to war.
They had that first match, Swerve wins kind of by cheating,
which it was cheating. That second match where they beat
the living fuck out of each other, Swerve winds again,
and now you have a match where he gets choked out.
He taps out. Swerve doesn't lose hanging it shoked out,

(18:53):
Hamming goes crazy, attacks, officials gets suspended in k fabe,
but now Swerves on the rise. Swerve earns Joe's respect,
builds a feud, signs this again, signs this contract in blood,
but then he just thrones Simojo become the first ever
aw Black champion from the when's his first title, He's

(19:13):
on top of the world. Hangman's pissed. He comes back
and he's just like, what the actual fuck you guys
are cheering him? He broke into my house. Guys, we
had to fucking move, We had to leave my family.
Say like, he's beyond anxious money cowboy. Now now he's
crashed out money ol cowboy.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
He just can't believe that the fans turned on him so.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Quickly and just and they cheer Swerve, And I think
he's got so relatable.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
When you look at the whole story with Swerve and Hangman,
Hangman is the more relatable one. But Swerve has every
right to what he's not quite doing but doing as well.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
But Hangman wasn't wrong. If you really go back and
watch this build even yet, yeah he will, but think
about that. Think about that for a minute. You come
back after being suspended and the new world champion is
someone who broke into your house, who choked you out

(20:17):
with a chain, who destroyed your body, who's insulted you,
who's been nothing but a thorn in your fucking side,
and he's getting love and admiration that you don't get anymore.
So I don't think it was so much the fans
turning on hangman, as he felt, how can you the
same people who wanted me to be your hangman, how

(20:37):
can you cheer for this fucking asshole? And, like you said,
so relatable because he's gone through literal mental, physical war
with him. He's champion now, his psychosis is just it's
nothing else. He's just he's gone. He just he spirals
out for me, and you have the Owen going on,
so he figures he's going to enter the Owen. He's
gonna win that title, and it's swear as a champion.

(21:00):
Good bonus, I'm gonna steal that title from you. Everything
was involved with Serf. He didn't care about double or nothing.
He didn't care about the blood and guts, the blood
and guts match. His whole time he focused on swerve.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Very true.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
He costs the elite that match.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
So I actually have a few notes from that one
by a few, I mean the most. I took all that.
So Swerve created a team of misfits. He has the
acclaimed minus Daddy Ass Darby and Mark Brisco and they
go headed head to head against the Elite with Hangman,

(21:37):
Adam Page, the Young Bucks, Jack Perry, and Okata. Now
this match lasts almost an entire hour. Hangman actually attacks
Swerve before the match can even start.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, and he's basically holds him up to against the
cage and he's holding that title and he's just bashing
him with the title. Yeah, handcuffed, and when he's in
the match, he's attacking him. During the match, poor Jack
Perry is getting strapped up to the keys, Darby's pouring
gasoline threatened to burn Jack. Perry gets the Bucks to
submit and give him a title match, but again Hangman

(22:14):
screws the Bucks. So in this timeframe they lost the
Ring of Honor Trip Trios titles because Hangman walked out
in the Bucks and they got destroyed by the Mogul Embassy.
Hayman's cost them the match at Blood and Guts. So
you know, the Young Bucks takeover failed, really failed because
Hangman didn't didn't join them. He was so hyper focused

(22:35):
on Swerve that he basically was like, fuck you guys,
fuck you to the elite, and he was timelevision, so
he started focusing on the Owen and Jay White and
everything ahead of him. But he would come up short
in the Owen and he would just go crazy. He
was mad. He just he couldn't believe it. You have
Swerve going against Brian Danielson getting ready to go all in.

(22:58):
You are no longer going to all in. You have
a summer of just spiraling Hangman. So he takes another shot.
He enters the Casino Battle Royal at all in because
he knows if he wins Swerves Champion, he's gonna get
him at all out. He's gonna get his title shot
against Swerve. And he loses the Casino Battle Royal, and

(23:20):
he's just The complete deterioration of Swerve to this point
is something that you, I mean, excuse me, Hangman, something
you have to see. His character arc the summer of
twenty twenty four was probably some of the best character
work Hayman did, leading into one of the craziest situations
in September that I have ever seen in my entire life.

(23:43):
We're getting ready to have another match. Swerve has lost
his title, he has nothing to do for all out
Hayman celebrating. But what does Hangman do that we talked
about it even for our Christmas TV viewing. What does
Hangman do?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
He so he goes on to talk about how he
just bought his childhood home.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
In Seattle, such a touching moment.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
How proud he is to have this home that his
mom lost. And now you've got Hangman sitting outside it
in a recliner, lit on fire and.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Just drinking whiskey. Houses going up in flames, Swerves basically
dropping to his knees, emotional after a year of war
and just mind games, Swerve is dropping to his knees, realizing,
what the fuck if I created? I created a monster?
Because now Hangman has reached his breaking point. All focks

(24:41):
are gone. He has lost everything. He went from twenty
twenty three Hangman, where he was okay. Look, I had
a bad year and a half. I won the title,
I lost the title to a rival where he was Swerve.
That Swerve awakened something he didn't know, and he did
things that just pushed him to his limits. And now
what does Hangman do? Well? You broke in my house. Fine,

(25:02):
I'll set your house on fucking fire like that. Just
the visual imagery of that house burning, him sipping the
whiskey and dynamite just goes off the air and Swerve
is just a wreck. I don't think I've ever seen
such a cooler closing shot of a dynamite in my
entire life.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
UM pretty close to Kenny leaving to CNA, that is
very fair.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
I just think that we knew that when all out
would happen. It's that really was all out, And I
love the AW played it up. They talked about how
they're no longer going to sanction this match because they've
seen what these two men have done to each other.
You had Haymen even interrupting Swerve on the indies. You
had Swerve taunting him, you had Hangmen's like they kept

(25:52):
one upping each other to the point that an AW
and k Fabe They're like, listen, we don't want to
be responsible with what you do, fucking crazy guys do
to each other in this case. And I can tell
you this, when I watched that match the very first time,
I did not think it would go there, and it
went places in this match that I'm still almost mentally
scarred from.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
The first match they had was pretty brutal, like thee Yeah,
that Texas Death Match was pretty brutal. We saw a
vampire hangman things that we didn't know where a thing
in wrestling like a hangman was pulling out. And now
you've got this match that I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
You have cinder blocks, you have tax you have a callback,
and one of my favorite callbacks. So in that Texas
Death Match, Hangman stapled his kid's finger paintings to swerve
its head in this match, swerved Staples's family pictures the
Hangman's head, the same family pictures he showed in that
video when he bought the house. You have the cinder
block where Hangman's getting dropped on his back and getting scraped.

(26:56):
The part you have plundergalore, more barbered our attacks, Swerve
taking the staples and laughing about it, stapling himself.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
And then what is hangman pull out?

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Pulls out a fucking syringe.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
No, the piece of wood from the house.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Oh, the charred piece would that he starts stabbing him with.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, And they go back and forth stabbing each
other with this piece of wood from the burned house
and just.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Pulls out the syringe in cabacation and then the final chairs,
he just wraps the chair on his skull and he
passes out. The f calls this, you know, for safety,
swerve stop the match. He stands after at the top
of the ramp and he debates, this is the storytelling
I loved. He debates, should I go back to the ring?
And I want to ask you before we kind of

(27:44):
move on to you know, more of this feud. Do
you think he was going to go back to inflict
more harm or do you think he was gonna go check.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
On him inflict more harm? There is no like going
back from this feud anymore. They've met up recently, they
are still enemies.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
They are well before you get into the meta priest
in this, we're gonna talk about that in a second.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, no, there they are forever intertwined. I don't think
that there's a way to come back from this.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean, the man, like you said, the man drink
that they drank it with his blood. I feel like
they are blood brothers in the literal sense. But part
of me wonders that subtle little twitch where he was
like should I stay or should I go? And not
to quote that sum. Part of me wonders if that
was on purpose, like I've gone too far? Should I
go or should I stay? And I like that he
didn't go back to the ring because he kind of

(28:36):
just he saw the path of his destruction. He knew
that after a year, he finally won. He finally did
something to Swerve that Swerve has been doing to him
for a year. He beat him to his limit. He
destroyed him mentally and physically. He basically he gave him
a receipt. You know, you want to break in my house,

(28:56):
I'm gonna ruin yours. You want to beat me to
a pulp, I'm gonna beat you worse. He went to
places that he even says he did not want to
go to, and the spiral really starts to turn because
Swerve will be out for a little bit. Hangman, we
kind of start looking at this next journey and they
really wouldn't talk much. Aw was very smart. They kept
him apart. But I mean there's year long feud. You

(29:20):
can't just rush them back together. No, I mean again,
you don't want to run a match back like say
November foll gear. So you know they kind of go
they kind of go their own way. You have the
rest of the year play out, and then you start
getting the teases again. You have a backstage segment and
Hangman's looking for Swerve, and then you have another backstage
segment where Swerve sees him and they're just yelling at

(29:40):
each other. And like you said, there's still enemies, but
there's a bigger issue that came into play in November.
So obviously we talked about all in Ryan Danielson winning
the title. Well, after all Out, you know, the events
of Wrestle Dream, we have a new champion, John Moxley
destroyed Brian Danielson, The death Writers are born, a new

(30:03):
takeover is happening, So now you have the elite disappears.
So Swerve has been a banded I mean, Hangman's been abandoned.
Swerve is now kind of intertwined with the Death Rider stuff.
So Hayman's kind of on an islander, just doing his
own thing. So when they have those little interactions again,
it's this company's under chaos. So now it's almost like
it's the enemy of my enemy. But he still doesn't

(30:24):
want to forgive Swerves doesn't want to forgive him.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, Swerv's found this newfound friendship with Willow, and he's
got people like Copeland, He's got people like Mark briscow
All in his corner.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Darby.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, he's really gained this.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Like Team AW now.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, you had when Death Riders first took over, you
had Team AW with all the young kids outside waiting
to protect AW. Now you've got the veterans.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Of a well. And that's what I think too. It
was a good suble way to kind of keep this
feud in the back of people's minds. You had Hangman
who didn't really give a shit. He still was so
focused on that title, and he was focused on making
sure Swerve didn't get that title. And that's what leads
into the kind of the beginning of this year. So

(31:19):
the reason why they started teasing Swerve and Hangman again
because we would have some paper views people go up
against Death Riders faild. You had Adam Copeland go up
against the Death Riders and fail. Well, someone else want
to take a shot at post Revolution. You had Swerve
finally getting his rematch a year later Dynasty against John Moxley,

(31:39):
and who would come out first? Hang that he would
come out and he looked for a moment, for a
slight moment, he looked like he would help Swerve, but
then he had his focus on Moxley, because what is
his focus on the world champion. Lights would go out,
the Bucks would come back, the Bucks would attack Swerve,
Swerve would lose. They would come out the following night
on Dinah and the Bucks would say, we did it

(32:01):
forew hang Man. We did it for you, buddy. We
don't forget our friends. You said, he you didn't want
Swear to be championed against We did it for you.
Now that was kind of a throwaway line for a while,
but really think about that was only about a month ago.
They threw this line away and right around the scene.
Right around that same time, Swerve and Hangman had another
confrontation backstage with a very star Wars asque twist Han
solo Princess Leiah moment here where they would scream at

(32:23):
each other and you would have them going back and forth.
You broke my house, you burned down my house. You
deserved it, I know, just the iconic Swerve, I know,
like he admitted what he did wrong. He didn't say
he forgave Hangman Hammi, didn't say he forgave him, but
Swerve owned up to the fact that he was a
piece of shit. Hangman didn't know what to think so

(32:45):
and I think that kind of set the trigger in
motion to get Hangman to get on his path or redemption,
which is what we're seeing now. And that's why I
think we want to do this episode because this few,
this rivalry is so important to this current story and
I don't think it's over.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
It's far from over. I think that this is going
to be one that will be able to see, not
time and time again. This will be special moments. This
will be is something that when you need to bring
that fire out and hang Man, you're gonna kick Swerve in.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Well, here's how it plays out, and here's how it
kind of keeps that fire stoking. To use your analogy,
So before the Double or Nothing pay per view, we
had Hangman and Osprey having a probe battle of the ring.
But what is the first thing, hey man, do Listen?
I went to a dark place last year. My wife
doesn't know how, my kid has no I did a

(33:37):
lot of bad shit. I don't want to do that.
I need to focus. I need to be on my goals.
I need basically, I need redemption. I need to win
this for me. I need to be better. His goal
is still the title. Now. Swerve is obviously upset about
that because on a most recent episode of Dynamite, Swerve
comes out after a great anarchy and the arena after

(33:59):
taking care of the bus bucks, and he said, hang man,
we still got something to talk about. Congratulations you won
the title, but remember you said you were never gonna
let me win the title again. You got something explain
to do with his footage, he pulls up that footage
of the bucks where the bucks say love you, hang Man,
we did it for you, and he goes, don't you
lie to me? And I just love the rotoria. Listen,

(34:19):
dumb ass, if I was going to cost you the title,
would do it to your face. So they're not quite
on thost terms. Here's how I think this rivalry can
really play into the next few months. So we have
like sixty something days to all in. You have Hangman
go for his redemption, Omega trying to play I mean,
excuse me, Osprey trying to play peacekeeper. Swerve's not having it.

(34:42):
So I think we're gonna see the Swerve and Osprey
have a match all in. I think, though, is hay
Man so I said this day, is Hangman the true
villain in the story? Did he really orchestrate? Because I
don't know if I see that where they're saying, did
he orchestrate all this and he secretly working with elite?
I don't know if I see this, cause I feel

(35:02):
like he went too far. But what I do seeing
is Swerve finally helping Hangman for the greater good. I
see Swerve being the person to deliver a house caller
something to Moxley when the death Riders are done, and
reluctantly pulling Haym in and putting them on the side
and walking away. I don't see him doing it as
like a I'm gonna help you because my friend, I

(35:25):
seem like I don't want you to win, but I
don't want Moxley champion either, to kind of keep that going,
and I think it's gonna lead here's my little tinfoil
here to the Bucks versus Hangman and Swerve it all out.
I think making them like team together somehow, because I
think that way you can still keep that seeds where
they they don't want to be a team. They don't
want to be together. So, but I think it's gonna

(35:48):
be that reluctant because that pop it all in when
Swerve hits the house call or does something to the
bucks to help haym In is going to be massive.
But you can still keep this feud. You can still
keep this in the back of his mind because think
a hang Man and Kenny, they have like a two
year feud. This one is a two year feud. They're
not going to just end it.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
No, they really can't, because even still, you can go
back to Ospray and Kenny, even still, you can go
back to Cassidy and Ospray, you can go back to
all these different people just like you'll be able to
run this back.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
And that's that's the other thing. There's still some people
who are missing. You have Orange Cassidy who's on the
shelf coming back. You have Darby Allen who should be
back by the end of the summer early fall. So
you have people who can be in the picture. You
have people who Hangman have wronged in the past. But
the only way he's truly gonna get redemption is making

(36:40):
amends with some of the things that you Swerve. Now
I'm not saying forgive Swerve, but maybe some of the
stuff at all out because I don't think he's ever
truly gonna forgive Swerve because again he broke into my house,
but again you burn his. So at what point is
blood for blood near enough? Because what do they say
about eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind?

(37:02):
And with aw loving their eye patches? Who's gonna be
the next one to wear? Is Swear gonna wear?

Speaker 2 (37:08):
No?

Speaker 1 (37:09):
So I'm gonna ask you, m too, what are your
thoughts overall in this feud from the moment they first
talked to that last match where you just are left
an awestruck, like, what do you think about this feud?
What are some of your favorite elements about it?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
First of all, I know we called Jermy out quite
a bit, but where's my bloody figures?

Speaker 1 (37:29):
I mean we should call them out? God damn.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Aside from that, I think that this saw so much
that we just didn't expect time and time again, cinderblocks
used more than one match. I'm sorry we once we
shouldn't have even had them once. That was wild. Then
you have the cage being cut open and Hangman and

(37:53):
Swear being able to escape the cage, and cause chaos,
and it almost like gave you hints of what was
to come with this year's anarchy. And look, every little
piece to this it was just like time and time again,
beautifully booked together. And I don't know who is behind this,
but please keep writing.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
And what I like is the raw motion both men
have in this feud. I love that both men put
everything into these characters, into these stories, into these matches.
And AW gets a lot of flak for the gratuitous violence,
the bleeding, you know, the entertaining stuff. They get flak
for that, but they always get crapped on for not

(38:37):
telling a story. But yet I feel like in the
past few years we've done this podcast and done these episodes,
we've been able to analyze so many great stories. We
opened the show talking about Mariah May and Tony Storm
having the best women's This is probably the best men's story.
And do you know who was the best men's story
before that? Kenny and Hangman. Hay Man's been involved. I'll

(38:58):
go out right now, hot take. Hang has been involved
in two of the best men's stories in AW since
they're founding Agree because I know a lot of people
don't like Hangman and it is what it is. You
have the right to like you. But yeah, that's admire
He's a passionate motherfucker and he has changed his character
the right way he they figured out his character was

(39:21):
I want I don't want to say stealecause I feel
like that's such an overuse where but it needed refreshing,
it needed updating, and I liked because hey, maybe he
got called out for his gear and his wardrobe early
in the feuds when swear was like, you haven't bought
new gear to year.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
So I think something important to look at with Hangman
is that he is around our age and he is
so fucking relatable. The anxious millennial cowboy is real. Like
you look at during the pandemic, what was Hangman doing drinking?
And like that was how he made it through the pandemic,

(39:55):
you know, like he would take other people's drinks before
the pandemic and he was like I wouldn't say that
the party guy, but he was like, hey, yeah, Like
he was the guy that you saw at the bonfire
that you wanted to hang out with and drink a
beer with. He was like the Luke Bryan of wrestling

(40:16):
at the moment. And then you put together a further storyline,
further storyline, and you've got now hangman has his family
that he's caring for and his wife that he cares
so much about, and it's just again relatable to our
age range. And then he thinks everyone's against him, again
relatable to our age. It's just every little detail.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I mean, the first part you said was anxious. He's anxiety, right,
and now he's going out there and he's going against
the North. He went against Storm evolved, I mean, the
music evolved, the mustache evolved, everything, so I mean he
went from having butterfly jeans to having some of the

(40:57):
coolest gear. He just his like that music change. Had
Swerve's fucking house on fire as his entrance. We didn't
even talk about it, but during the Texas Death Match,
he didn't even have his full entrance in the music starts,
he fucking just runs to the ring and starts attacking Swerve.
Like the subtleties and then the in ring psychology of
all these matches, both men trying to incapacitate their best shots.

(41:19):
So you have Swerve, who kept saying, you know you
have cowboys shit, you know you have you have the
Buck shot, I have the kill shot. Can you do
a kill shot? Can you end it? And hey man,
Eventually I had to say, okay, I have to do it.
Takes to end this man. I don't have to just
pin him. I have to end him. And that subtle
psychology of building up that first match, Okay, you cheated
to win that second match, Okay, you out crazy, mean

(41:41):
the death match to that third match where ha I
stepped up. You weren't expecting me to go that far
to oh my god, I can't believe that I went
that far like, and then you have Swerve, who let's
be let's be real. He was elevated from maybe one
day he'll be championed to I can't wait till he's
champion again. Both men went from already being respected and
well loved to even more to being top tier talent.

(42:04):
In aw You know, we talked about our Pillars episode
and we mentioned that both men are foundational members because
of what this feud has done. Swerve put himself on
the map, put himself in serious title contention because of
this feud. Hay Man was so over a double or
nothing because everyone wants to see his redemption and I'm

(42:25):
going to talk about the Elphantom. His moment essentially was
stolen after he lost his title and all the bullshit
that happened with you know, brawl out everything else him.
It was kind of like the untalked about, like not victim,
but casualty of that, like he you know, he did
the right thing, he did business, he put the other
person over, and he kind of filled out for a

(42:46):
while and he's had to bust his ass. And this
feud really showed why Tony Khan has trusted him. This
feud showed why Tonya has trust and sort because they
went out there to entertain, They went out there to
tell a story. We're doing a whole episode because it
was one of my favorite feuds and you guys want
to hear it. And that's that's what pro wrestling is.
When you have this beautiful feud that you can watch

(43:09):
and you can enjoy the moments and you can go
back and rewatch the matches. I'm like, oh my god,
I've got how brutal that was. And when you see
aw pays reward you for paying attention. That's why LOVEDA.
They reward you for watching.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
And we've talked about Hangman's growth. But Swerve came in
basically not like this at all. He was not very
likable because he was feuding with his tag team partner
and then he's like throwing was it Darby around everywhere?
He beat up a kid Nick Wayne, You've got him

(43:44):
just completely unlikable.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
From statistic kill the icon.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah. Now since probably he won that championship, you can say, like, damn,
he's really won the crowd over.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
I'm telling you that cruise twenty twenty four Cruse three
twenty four crews the year he won the title, his
second cruise, that cruise because the twenty twenty three crews
he has well, but he he I don't think the
crowd was much into him that twenty twenty four Crews.
Even Brian was like, man, I love the Swerve of

(44:16):
his energy is infectious. And I think that double turn
at Revolution because I mean, he was a heel taken
on the cruise, but he was super over so we
knew that he face turn was coming and that turn
at Revolution was everything for Swerve. Now again, I like
it because if you look at the dynamics of Swerve
and hanging around, they're not really true white meat baby

(44:36):
faces and they're not true asshole chicken shit heels. They're
kind of both in that gray zone, that gray area
right now where one wrong thing is gonna set it back.
I mean, look, Swerve is super pissed off. Still that
was as he said, collusion. Did it happen to him?
Did he get fucked out of his title? So? Is
that gonna be something in that back of Is he
gonna screw Hangman over it all and they can have

(44:57):
one more match? I don't. I don't know. And that's
what's the beautiful thing of the feud. We talked about
what my fantasy booking is, but what's your fantasy booking?
Where do you see this feud going.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I want to see somehow, some way. I want to
see him screw over Hangman, but I also want to
see Hangman still win that if that makes.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Sense, And I think that's the beauty of pro wrestling
is there's so many endings that could happen that'll be okay.
I didn't think of that, because the way they've told
this story, it could literally go fifty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Like after the Own Heart Tournament. I want to see
Hangman take this championship from Moxley because what is the
one thing Hangman's been saying he wants to do. Bring
back that big, beautiful belt, baby, take it out of
that briefcase. Finally somebody gets it.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
So what if he opens a briefcase and no insize,
just swerves new shoes, Oh my god, and swerves holding
the belt in nothing and swerves holding the belt in
the distance.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I would love that.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
See, Like, there's so many ways I think.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
That we see this run back at full gear at
the least. I think we could see it at all out.
I think we could see this literally anytime after all in.
I want to see one more at the least this year.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
And I think that's great thing, even if it's not
one on one, you know, even if they tease it,
even if it's no listen before you said, because what
can they do? They've already done that cage match. They can't.
You can't just have a singles match that's gonna make sense.
You can't do another hardcore match. You don't want to do,
iron Man, you don't want to do. So you have
to plant the seeds to make that match makes sense.
Because they just do another one one match, how are
they going to top the three matches they've been for you.
Those other matches are going to be in your head.

(46:40):
And with only a year, I think it's you can't
do another singles match, just shit unless you do some fuckery.
Whether there's not really where they have a match where
lights come out and soon returns and it screws them over,
so we get teased with it. That's the thing they
got to tease saying that, like Wembley twenty twenty six moment.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
So what you're saying is we could see Hangman and
Ospray feud for a minute. We could see someone else
take the title and then bring it back to these two.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's what I'm thinking is I could see someone like
Darby taking the title off Hangman, and I could see
you know how swearing his friendship could be the catalyst,
like what you said, Darby because you thought I was
with the elite. Like, there's so many ways to go,
and I feel like we could do a whole episode
just on fancy booking. So I don't want to stay
on this topic too long. But there's so much potential

(47:29):
in this feud and it's been watch why it's one
of my favorite feuds.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
If Darby doesn't come out and say I climbed Everest
and all you did was go to broke Back. I
would die right there, heart stop. I would be dying laughing.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
You've been thinking of that for a while. That does
not just come out of the old cranium.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
That just popped in.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I'm dressed with it. I won't go there. But yeah,
that's an interesting quote because your favorite Taylor Swift ex
Boyfriends and that movie isn't me. Yeah, but no, let
us know in the comments what you think of this feud.
It's one of our favorite future a reason, you know,
make sure the typical like subscribe at krisimokp about all
of our socials. Help us get to seventeen thousand. We're

(48:10):
so close on Facebook. You can follow us on x
I've been trying to post there a little bit more. Thankfully,
it's not as bad once I once I figure out
the block feature, it's been really helpful.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
It's Mango on TikTok's Its been pretty fun lately.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Try it, but you know, gotta love the trolls there.
And yeah, we're treally.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Trying to do like an ae W fan based on
TikTok and you know.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Let us know you know what episode you want to
hear next. We have some ideas. Live streaming might be
on the back burner temporarily just because we're dealing with
some good old tech issues. I don't want to I
don't want to say anything that's going to get us
in trouble. But I think that we have a lot
of good plans coming up. We have a lot of
good ideas, yis, so let us know if there's episode

(48:53):
you want to see. We love to deep dive. We
have means to watch most matches. If you tell me
it's an all Japan match FM nineteen and eighty seven,
I probably won't be able to watch it. But if
you give me, say a match from twenty ten where
I can find it, okay, So just remember as long
as I can access so we can access the match,
we can, you know, deep divenue. Because it's kind of
hard to do an episode if we can't see it
because we're not critics or we're just gonna watch a

(49:14):
ninety second clip online and give it an opinion.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
We actually enjoy a match, So I think that's a
good challenge for you guys. Is give us another two people,
any two people that you want to see us really
play around with the storylines and see what we can find.
I think Chris and Willow would be kind of fun
to do.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
I think so too, because especially with their fewd looks
like it's suppos to also reignite. Speaking of fire, So yeah,
definitely let us know in the comments, let us know
what you think, Make sure you like subscribe for along
all that other fun sasage those five star frog splash
of their review, and remember until next time, always keep
Hey everyone, it's your producer and co host Mango here.

(49:56):
Thank you so much for tuning into another fantastic episode
of Crusians k Fabe. Emily and I certainly appreciate all
the support and love you've shown us. For an ad
free experience and exclusive content, visit cwkpod dot com. Music
provided by the Undone. Emily and Mango would like to
thank the Undone for letting us use our title track Misfortune.
Misfortune as well as their other songs, are now available

(50:18):
wherever you stream or purchase music or by visiting We
are the undone dot com and hey, let's get them
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(50:38):
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Leave us a five star frog splash of review. But
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