Pure Rivalry: Nigel McGuinness and Bryan Danielson

In this episode Emily and Mongo take a deep dive into one of the most legendary rivalries in professional wrestling: Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness. From their early days in Ring of Honor to their battles over the Pure and World Championships, this rivalry defined an era of technical excellence and intense storytelling. Watch as we explore Nigel's rise as a Pure Champion, his heartbreaking challenges, and Bryan's journey to becoming one of the top stars in the wrestling world. They also discuss the lasting impact of their feud, Nigel’s struggles with injury, the bittersweet conclusion to his career, and his shocking return at Wembley.

As AEW Grand Slam promises to bring these two legends back into the spotlight, this episode is a must-listen for any wrestling fan looking to relive the magic of Bryan and Nigel's unforgettable rivalry. Tune in for an in-depth discussion filled with passion, respect, and plenty of wrestling history! Available now on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and YouTube.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, Nigel McGinnis teas of Grand Danson when he comes back.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I think definitely with the Nigel, possibly because him to
be in a new edition with the Ring of Honor
and collision and all that. I mean, that's that could
be a good one. I mean, don't know on the others,
but the Nigel, I think it definitely happened.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
We see definitely a setup with Nigel. If they don't
do that at Wembley Stadium, it's a mess, complete miss
I cannot wait to hear everything that goes on with Nigel,
Brian Danielson going.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Forward whatever face me, Oh good lord, look at Brian
Davis from desperately pandering to the crowd yet again. I
think the fans started that same moduff. Ryan Danielson public
offender number one, terrible example for his children, never six
with anything.

Speaker 5 (00:48):
They used to be.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
Vegan, but he couldn't give up eating breath right, that
could be misconstrued. That's shot of gonna have limited depth position,
which is so funny, isn't it. Wise out his wife
said he had a problem with Linke's pass. If they
walk the line, it kind of looks like that cartoon
about human evolution and Brian Daniels has made it abundantly
clear he's got Neanderthal DNA. Anyway, with you stuff, it
looks like he's doing the can can your mother?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Why doesn't he put a dress on?

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Sathetic, Brian Danielson, I can't get up sitting.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Down on the job. How lazy can you get?

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Please?

Speaker 5 (01:22):
The dragon already scared?

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Look up fearing the dictionary.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
You'll see that ugly mom.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
He's getting inside Brian Danielson's head and there's a lot
of space in there. Who's a coward now, Brian Danielson.
They are booing Brian Danielson.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
He is a coward, look at me.

Speaker 6 (01:37):
I love Brian.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Danielson on your choices in.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Brian there like in set my arm biased, but I
had a brudge against Brian Danielson.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Sorry, hello is the sniger again? As I'm talking to live.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
I call it straight down the middle, as objective as
any man living to day.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
I mean, when you watch mon commentary, I think angel,
I think the world. I think the world of him
as a wrestler, but when you the world of him
is a comminator. But he no longer has the physical
ability to match up with me. I look at his neck,
and I think.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
That i'd break in the fool is in your cool?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Brian?

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Quite simply, I hug you to drop Jay and you
show up, because.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
If there is a god in heaven, it will happen.
And if there's not, May the devil here my prayer.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
And welcome back to kuzmkafe about.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Mango Emily, and today we're.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Diving into a rivalry that defined an error, ring of
honor and a lasting impact on professional wrestling. I'm talking
about the mat rivalry between Brian Danielson and Nigel McGinnis.
And why do I have these glasses on? You say,
because Nigel's a generational hater. So isn't Brett Hart. Fuck you,
Bill Goldberg. Let's dive into this episode because I'm so
ready for this pure rivalry.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Pure rivalry is right. I think that there is nothing
more exciting at the moment than bringing up Nigel McGinnis.
He is literally popping up everywhere. He has really become
a staple in aew on commentary. I look forward to
his quirky you know comments again.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
You know, Brian said he was a vegan, but he
still eats breeze. One of the ones that gets me
every single time.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
I laughed so hard. Was not ready for that one,
especially where I was rewatching Total Divas when that happened.
So yeah, no, you're right.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
And that's why if you listened to on our intro
you heard the twenty twenty three All In Predictions with
Jeff and Rachel where you had myself and Jeff adamant
that Nigel could come back because he had just signed
a Ring of Honor and essentially AW four commentary on Collision,
and then this year's all the Predictions you had Emily
saying it's his home country, it's Wembley, it's a miss. Well,

(04:10):
we didn't know that we were going to still get Nigel.
We got him in the Gauntlet, but he's back baby.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
So in preparation, obviously we do our deep dives and
I went through the chrispian Lee interview briefly to hear
Nigel talk about how Wembley Stadium was where he realized
that he wanted to be a wrestler as a child.
And to have him come back to wrestling in that
moment and be so prominent, it is really exciting. And

(04:40):
apparently I didn't catch this the first time I listened
to this, but him and Tony had a private plane
ride and Tony you mentioned if you ever wanted to
come back, we could try and do this at Wembley,
and then Brian broke his arm. So this is just
going to like lead into the rest of how we
put this together. And I think it is very just

(05:02):
ironic in a bad way.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
And that's kind of the story of this, of their
whole rivalry, feud connection, the roots that they have inside
the ring, outside the ring, everything, it's it's a generational
rivalry for a reason.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
These are the stories that I enjoy because this is
real life meeting the ring and I think that not
only are they both talented wrestlers, but it's a real feud.
It's real like they might not actually hate each other,
but they do hate. Like the aspect is going into
all of this, Like I can say, I have not

(05:38):
heard enough of Brian's side, but hearing Nigel's I get
the heat, like I get being upset. I'd be sad too.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I mean, Brian's always kind of taken the high road
on it. He's kind of said I respect him as
a wrestler, I respect him as a commentator and as
a man. You know, our life just took different paths.
But I mean when we're kind of going into oh.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
We did watch something that was what ten years old,
I mean I.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Wasn't ten years old. It was only four or five.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Oh okay, Well the documentary that we did watch Maybe
there was.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Magic on Peacock Got twenty nineteen. Yeah, it was a
good documentary. It definitely opened. I mean, it's ww produced,
so there's a lot of making w B look good
at it. But it's a good quick retrospective him after
his career ended, where he went. And we're gonna get
into that because I kind of have a timeline written down.
I know you have your notes written down, but just

(06:26):
kind of quickly go back to Wembley before we start. Yeah,
Jeff Rachel, myself and you were calling for it last year,
the Clearliers in the plans because again they planted those
seeds on commentary like you were mentioning earlier, all his
little pot shots he does even in the interviews. You know,
he calls him brittle Brian, he calls him a clam digger,
and you have Brian taking the high road. How if

(06:46):
you got back in the ring, I'd break his neck and.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
The tension has always.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Been there, right, the tension has always been there, So
this year it all in all of a sudden. I
hear Oasis and I just it didn't click right away,
like why is fucking in the bushes planing right now?
Like that's oh my god, it's Nigel. And the second
I jumped out of my chair, Nigel mcguinnis goes on
the screens. Emily's off the couch. So it was like

(07:12):
not even a delay of like half a second. I
popp because I realized whose music was. She pops because
she saw the flag with Nigel. We both didn't hear
the crowd because we were like, holy shit, it's Nigel,
and like nobody saw it coming.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
It was just like we all know. I'm sentimental as hell.
I was so happy for him, Like, not only did
I just get Soria coming out, we got fre Kidsturn.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Everything was like a little bit after like it was
a magical.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Mind you guys, Like I came right after work to
press play and he paused everything. So all I missed
was Soria. So while I'm getting changed, she didn't. Yeah, Like,
while I was getting changed, this man is showing me
the video of Soria coming out and Jamie Hayter and
I was so already over the moon and then I

(07:59):
sit down too. Was it the ladder match?

Speaker 4 (08:01):
First?

Speaker 1 (08:02):
I don't know watched match, but she was just riding
the motion tied and I was like.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
This is so fantastic. Wait, this is fantastic. I was
just happy for everybody and myself, you.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Know, And I think it's great. And I think a
lot of people are upset that this match is taking
place at Grand Slam, but that's where the history kind
of goes back. It's fifteen years to the day they fought,
and yeah, it's not the same venue they fought in
New York. They're they're running it back, So you be
sent him out. Tony's clearly sent him out because he

(08:33):
understands that it's running back in the same city. They
basically made the East Coast famous. They wrestled all up
and down like New Jersey, Philadelphia, New York, Virginia, West Virginia.
They they travel the country and they put it on
the map. And that's where we're gonna start. We're gonna
start with you know, Nigel coming over from England moving
to Ohio. Just like Emily said, he watched SummerSlam ninety

(08:56):
one and ninety two, but he watched ninety two in
person and watched Brett Hart and was like, this is
what I want to do. And now I felt the
connection to that because if you know the poster above
our wall, the Road Warriors, that's where I became a
fan of wrestling. When I saw those fuckers coming on
the Harley and they're wearing spiked shoulder pads, I was
like action figures. So to know that so many people

(09:19):
were influenced by that one pay per view, that one
moment and Nigel's whole career, you know, he'd go to
Ohio and he would try to Kent State. You know,
shout out to Brian who when I went to visit
him for they had done showed me Ken State. So
my mind's blown that he picked Ohio and get to
get trained by Less Thatcher and kind of start learning
that technical British strong style of wrestling.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
And that strong style is so unique in America to
learn like that because we have so many more high
flyers than we used to even ten years ago. So
to have the technical style that matches so well with
Brian also is just the pure irony of this lineup
in this few for fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
And that's what's great. I mean their feud only lasted
three years in Ring of Honor. It only was it
only was realistically twenty four matches when I looked up
on cage match, So three years, twenty four matches. That's
why eight matches a year roughly estimate. It felt like
it went on forever, but really every match had a purpose.

(10:23):
And what I liked is they both revolutionized Ring of
Honor in separate ways, and they kept meeting up. I mean,
let's look at how Nigel Kinda started. He went on
the NDC, got into Ring of Honor, Samoa Joe and
Gabe Sapolski decided to create a title that was just
as important as the world title, and what would come
about would be the Pure Championship, which had its own

(10:46):
special set of rules. You had twenty minute excuse me,
twenty second count out, so they had to ring out
counts for up to twenty You had three rope breaks,
no close fists, so it changed the style of US
because there was rules, the title could change on this
qualification because what they were trying to do was they
were trying to establish pure wrestling, real love the letter

(11:11):
to the sport. Now, the Pure Championship kind of just
floated around for a little bit. Simojo had it, but
then a man named Nigel would take it off Samoajo.
He would hold that title for three hundred and fifty days.
And the great thing about that is what he was
doing with those title defenses, which were seventeen of them.
By the way, he was having some of the best

(11:33):
matches of his career. He was showing why he was
one of the best technical wrestlers. And when I really
enjoyed about going back and watching some of these matches
is watching his psychology, watching how when he was in
a pure match, he knew that there was only three
rope breaks, so he'd get people in the middle of
the ring and put him in a random submission because
he wanted them to get rid of those rope breaks
early in the match, so when he was wearing them down,

(11:55):
they couldn't. Well, who's going to outsmart someone like Nigel?
Will you have the American Dragon Brian Danielson, who can
outsmart him?

Speaker 3 (12:04):
And something that really played into his ring style and
how he interacted with the crowd was his fan of
magic he's literally a card musician, like he constantly is
doing tricks behind the scenes, and he uses that to
his advantage with the crowd, and he really knows how
to captivate us.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
And what I enjoy is everyone said the same thing.
He's obviously a magician outside the ring, but he's a
magician inside the ring. You had Kurt Engel, Samoa Joe,
seth Rawlins, Kenny Omega, Brian Danielson had all these who's
who even see him punk at one point saying that
his style messed with every inst once. So while he
had a great rival with Chris Heiro, Chris Hero said

(12:44):
the same thing. He's magic in the ring.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
And another fun little tidbit is that Samoa Joe and
Brian both talk about his magic and how different his
card tricks were and stuff like that in this documentary.
And I definitely want to say, like, I highly recommend
that documentary. It was very, very well done.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
And that is one good thing about the w documentary
is they put time and effort into it, and there's
a lot of hole movies, but you know, doing the
other research too, besides the documentary, going down the YouTube
rabbit holes and watching some old Ring of Honor moments.
I mean, you really had two thousand and six, which
was kind of a struggling time for TNA and Ring

(13:26):
of Honors relationship because you had a certain instant with
a gentleman who I won't name that caused frictions or
teena cutoff all relationships. So you had AJ styles pulled
out a Ring of Honor, so you didn't have Nigel
and AJ. You didn't have some of those matchups you
wanted to see. So they had to figure out what
to do. So as Nigel's going through doing his defenses,
they realized they need to elevate Nigel. They need to

(13:47):
make that the second title in Ring of Honor. So
they paired him together and they gave Nigel a title shot,
but he had to put his Ring of Honor title,
I mean, his peer title on the line. There were
some shenanigans in that first match. The way it kind
of went down with Nigel getting a disqualification allowed him

(14:07):
to keep his Pure title, but the world title could
not change on this qualification, only the Pure title, So
they kind of booked it in a way to keep
the feud going, and I enjoyed even back then, they
knew they had something with these two men because they
were equal in the ring. You had the psychology of
Brian and Nigel literally butting heads. They both were technical,

(14:29):
they're both on the ground. They were both hard hitting,
smashing each other in turn buckles, the stops to the head,
and Nigel even promising Brian, I'm not going to go
after your head and then during the match starts kicking
him in the head.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I mean, got to kick his head in, right, I.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Mean, maybe that's why Brian's so angry now. It is
because Nigel kicked his head in. You know. Their rivalry
would go on, you know, for three years, off.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
And on, almost covering of his title.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He would lose his title in a unification match in
April two thousand and six, and Brian would then have
a third match with him and then give him the
pure title, kind of like a symbolic trophy as respect.
So Nigel kind of started against the ropes with Brian
sort of speak like he wasn't beating him, but he
was always coming this close. He was always using his

(15:17):
tricks to allude to your magic, but it just wasn't working.
But Brian was showing him respect. He was still gaining
respect in the American Dragon and now they were considering
him a contender for the title, and that's kind of
a would happened. You know. He would have his he
would have this feuds, he'd have his matches, and then
follow two thousand and seven October, Nigel would finally capture

(15:37):
the Ring of Honor title. He would be so happy,
but he'd tear it bicep in October. So it's like
the string of bad luck would start because he finally
captured the top prize and he gets injured.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
So this is something that Nigel struggled with because he
sat there pushing through all these little injuries over and
over again because he wanted to stay relevant and stay
on top. He just continued to push through tiny injuries
and then for the by step to be the one
that took him out. It was heartbreaking for him and it.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Really changed his path.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
It really really did. Everything came down to this one
by sep injury for the rest of his career.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
So he chose because of insurance reasons, he chose to
rehabit so they didn't strip him of the title. They
actually allowed him to say Ring him Honor Champion. Chris
Hero get upset, and I kind of remember because I
vaguely remember the feudal it, but I wrote Chris Hero, like,
what the heck? He has to defend it? Nigel coming
out in full street closed and he defended the title
and beat Chrisiro really quick. And he would go on

(16:36):
even with an injured biceps, to still defend that title,
which shows the kind of strength he had. Again, those
seventeen title defenses just for the pure championship plus the
Ring of Honor defenses. Watch how hard hitting he is.
He's not He's not I wouldn't say he's not protecting
his ones, but he's not taking it easy. He's very
potatoe and stiff.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, And to go back to the reason that he
chose not to get surgery, they really do touch on
the fact that he wasn't making enough money, like he
wanted WWE so bad because he wanted that contract, that
was his dream. He was putting everything on the line,
his health, his financial status, every little thing that this

(17:17):
man could do. He was just doing that to get
to WWE.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
And even while he's injured, he's again you have two
thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, you have him
going back and forth against Brian. But listen to who
he had some world title defenses against. You had Tyler
Black Now on his seth Rawlins, Austin Aris, Kevin Seen
aka Kevin Owens, Claudio castick Noli, you have Goshagonsky and

(17:41):
then Jerry Lynn and Jerry Lynn would be the one
after five hundred and forty five days to take him out.
So you have two title reigns that this man has had.
You had three hundred and fifty days for the Pure
title and you had five hundred and forty five for
the World Champion, so almost nine hundred days. He had
two different top titles in the company between two thousand

(18:02):
and six two thousand and nine, and he defended it.
He was a fighting champion, you know, he had his
heel turns, he had his moments to try to keep it,
but he even defeated Brian. He gets to finally beat Brian,
you know, and carry that championship, and like, I finally
beat you know, the person who drove me nuts. I
finally beat my rival. And that's really kind of what
solidified it towards the tail end of his Ring of

(18:23):
Honor career in two thousand and nine, because in September
two thousand and nine, his dream finally came true. Brian
Danielson and Nigel were both given tentative contracts with WWE
as long as they passed the physical. Now, Brian admits
he kind of lied about his health, but Nigel.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
He was way too honest. That poor man again, that bicep, and.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
It just you could see if you watch that documentary
he watched, he's crushed.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
He was cleared. He was medically cleared by his own doctor.
But much like other people we've seen in the past,
WWE doctor even then, we're not passing him.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
They had their they had their own standards they want
to uphold, and they weren't. And he didn't feel because
his bicep had been recovered for two years and they
said there was less chance of re injuring it because
he rehabit correctly. He got doctor's notes from two different doctors,
but w didn't want the liability. So he talks about
there's another documentary out on YouTube that he put out himself,

(19:25):
and he's in the car and he's like, how can
I be so close to my dream. I'm in the building,
I'm talking to Tommy Dreamer, I'm talking to the people
who are gonna get me a contract, and then it's
all pulled away because I don't have nine thousand dollars
to go fix my arm. And that's what it was.
This wasn't like he oh, a case of him being
stubborn and trying to do what hellistically is. He didn't

(19:47):
have the nine to ten grand plus whatever he needed
while he was held up to do it, because I
mean back then Ring of Honor has probably given them
twenty grand a year, so they weren't really making the
kind of money if you think about he had to
travel and live and have health insurance bit me in
the ass. And this is where kind of competition is important.
It's gonna come in play later because he would go
to TNA for a little while. Here he'd come in

(20:09):
as Desmond Wolf.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
And something else to remember is that Brian didn't always
want the WWE dream. He wanted their stability, the financial security.
He wanted that, and I think that money kind of
fed Brian's dream in a not greedy way at all,
whereas Nigel wanted WWW as like that was his above

(20:33):
all dream. That was the sky is the limit, that's
the limit. He just really truly wanted to be in
a WWW ring and it's so heartbreaking to know he
was that close.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
And I think that's the big point of this episode
is this is how parallel their careers were. So they
both get signed. Okay, Brian starts to go into developmental.
He starts to go on NXT. He gets his weird
little and say where he gets fired by taking out
Justin Roberts and choking him with a tie. He gets fire,
comes back. Meanwhile, Nigel's like watching his friend, someone he

(21:10):
shared the road with, someone he bled with, someone he
fought all over the country live out his dream. And
I know he doesn't expressly say it in the documentary
or on paper, that's going to eat it you if
your dream is to get that WrestleMania moment, to be
in that rank, to potentially go to Wembley and represent

(21:30):
the company you saw as a child, and you just
realized that because of fucking one injury. But yet Brian,
who you probably know, has more injuries and it's just
like his his integrity. So I think this is where
the feud really starts.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
To kick in, and he would go on to TNA.
Nigel is in TNA and he's fighting the likes of
Kurt Angle, and Kurt Angle is complimenting his ability to
adapt and have chemistry with anyone and everyone in that company.
So you have somebody like Brian going and elevating the
division in WWE, and then you have somebody like Nigel

(22:05):
going and elevating somebody in TNA or everybody.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Sorry, well, I would say, yeah, Brian was kind of
going in there learning the ropes elevating that.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
But they were showcasing a new style of wrestling as well,
like showing this very technical, kind of Matt level style,
and I think that that's really cool because we hadn't
seen that in a long time. It was again we
saw more cruiserweights coming through and more people that were
flying in the air, and now you have the real
technical It wasn't just the big guys that were laying

(22:37):
it in with choke slams. You also have the math style.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
You had more of the Brett Harts, You had more
of the old school wrestlers coming in and making it
modern like where FTR kind of build their reputation off,
where a couple a lot of the modern Pete Dunn
and all these other people who were kind of emulating
you know that British strong style, and Brian Danson kind
of had almost an Olympic style, and that that's why
I think when Desmond Wolf as he was called Tena
came in and fought kurd Angle, I think the reason

(23:03):
why Kurt Angles said it works because he was wrestling
like Kurt was with the Olympic style, technical submission, work
the body part. You know, you don't need to jump
off the rope, work the crowd, and that's Nigel could
work the crowd. But unfortunately Teena, just two thousand and
ten to twenty eleven, Teena was a hot mess with

(23:23):
booking and he kind of fell down the card. It
was kind of just thrown in matches. I don't understand
how you have him come in and instantly take out
kurd Angle and go after the top guy in TNA
and then all of a sudden you're falling down the
card and you're tag teaming with Abyss And but he
would get to actually tag team with SmackDown's general general
manager Nick Alldus aka Magnus there so they did form

(23:44):
this tag team for a while that you know, had
a chance, but unfortunately Nigel will get sick and he
would be diagnosed with hepatitis. And this is just you know,
where the story gets even saturd. You know, he would
get fired from TNA because he contracted he be you know,
he doesn't know where, doesn't want to speculate, but it
comes from saliva or blood or other bodily food. So

(24:05):
he's in a sport where there's sweat and blood and spit.
Who knows how it could happen.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
And he's a very big advocate for that kind of
stuff being done in wrestling. And it's very ironic that
he's in aw where they do a lot of old
school style with that. I'm wondering how that's going to
come into play later on, but I think that he's
a very good advocate for safety with it. So who

(24:32):
knows what they're doing behind the scenes for that safety.
I'm sure they do take protocols well.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I mean, he cleared the virus and he was able
to thankfully get some I don't want to call him tests,
what do they call him trials of drugs? And like
you said, he became an advocate to test and make
sure a safety. So I'm sure maybe he's done to
make sure. Hey, I'm not positive like I'm not.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, well, Nigel, Nigel did. I want to clear this
misconception completely because he he did clear hebbe. He was
part of ten percent that do not clear on their own. Therefore,
he went and found a free trial, thank god, because
again he could not afford the medical stuff that he
needed medication, so he went and got a free trial,

(25:15):
and thankfully, he not only cleared HEBBE, he's he's immune
to it so he can't get it ever again. And
I think that that is so important. He cleared it
and became immune within six months, so he has been
cleared for quite some time, and a lot of people
don't know he did return after that.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
He was he was he's been cleared for thirteen years,
and you're right, and that's I think I'll bring up
the next misconception. He did not retire because of hepatitis,
and I think that's the rumor, and we see it
on our page.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Which is why we're just trying to make it in
the buck.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
We're not trying to dismiss anything, but it's very sad.
His own words, he retired because he went w B
wasn't going to take me after me, not because I
can't get the surgeon. I can't afford the surgery and
no offense, they're not going to pay for it because
he's trying to get a job. He didn't want to
go back to ringa honor A to work that style
because he didn't want to destroy his body. B Financially,

(26:12):
he's going backwards. He's not gonna be able to make it.
TNA basically said nope. So this is why competition is important.
This is why aw is important, this is why I
knew Japan is important. This is why a healthy wrestling
industry in twenty twenty four is important. Because Nigel had
to retire because literally the only option that could pay

(26:32):
him a living wage would not take him.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
And he hoped that this retirement tour would get him
signed to WWE again. Like that's his whole goal, his
entire goal, his whole life, is to work in the
ring for WWE. And I'm sure it's still in the
back of his head today. I'm sure he still does
everything to wrestle at WrestleMania because that's what he's always

(26:57):
wanted and dreamed of. Our child teams of wrestling in
AEW that's obviously there's again a reason for competition. If
his dream was simply to be a professional wrestler, that
man met that goal ten.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
And that's the thing. I think. Kerningle had a line
in the documentary that really stuck with me, that he's
one of the best in the world that nobody will
ever see wrestle. Another reason, having a company like aw
or New Japan or some having streaming deals is important
because millions of people have now seen him return at
Lembley on top of the fifty plus thousand at one.

(27:34):
But we've got to see him return the pop he got.
I've watched that so many times, that pop in his
home country. Once people realized, once that music hit and
those drums hit for fucking in the bushes, that place
became unglued. And I know it's cliche, but we had
to rewatch it because, like I said earlier, we both
came on glued. And I'm just I'm watching everyone in

(27:56):
the crowd. There are people crying.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I was jaw dropped. I was just like, it's real,
it's happening. We've been waiting for so long. He's been
waiting for so long.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I wrote down with Emily's words, or do you guys want
to know. Emily's exact words were holy fuck were her
exact words when Nigel came to the ramp, and then
she was speaks to us, which it takes a lot
for family to be speechless. That'shows you how important that
moment was. And I don't mean that as a job obviously,
but I mean in wrestling, everything's leaked, everything's ruined. There's
not a lot of genuine surprise. And to see him

(28:27):
come back was a surprise because he went on his
retirement tour and we have to touch on how that
ended because it was sad too.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
So he retired and the very next day he found
out that Brian cashed in the money in the bank
championship and won the championship, and he texted him wishing
he was there to celebrate with him. Brian texted Nigel
to say, I wish that you were here to celebrate
this with me.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
And he basically said how apropos. He filmed so, like
Emily said earlier, he wanted to get noticed by w
so he did this last year work in the indies.
He filmed everything. So think about this in two thousand
and eleven, twenty twelve, he's filming and uploading his own
documentary to get noticed. So he literally did everything he could,

(29:19):
and he every whole movie. He's like, maybe this is
the match they noticed me. Maybe maybe this is where
I get my chance. And he goes out and he retires,
and he's in the hotel and he's watching Brian and Brian,
you know, I won the world heavy. They gave me
the world heavy.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Child.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I wish you would hear with me, the he said, and
how apropos Again, he sees his career ending, and he
sees Brian's just beginning. And that's why I think now
after fifteen months and fifteen years, Brian Danilson and Nage
McGinnis are finally come face to face once again a
Grand Slam.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Wow, I just realized something. There's an even bigger tie
into this.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (29:58):
In aew Nigel McGuinness finally returns at Wembley Stadium.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Bonkers, right, that's.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Guess who won the world title that night.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yes, that's the connection.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's damn. I justing together and.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's why he entered. That's why he entered them. He
said his own words. I entered because I knew that
claim Digger had a shot at the title, and if
anyone's going to get that title from him, it's going
to be me, if anyone's going to end his career,
so he can know how I felt, it's me. So
that's why I wanted to allude to earlier what you
were saying, and I was saying, that's why I don't think.
I'm not going to say, you know, to keep the

(30:33):
k fabe. I'm not going to say there's they hate
each other backstage and they're going to come to blows.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
But I think there's still that what if factor, and
I'm glad you get to see it. And I know
Brian said, you know, temper the expectations, but I think
Nigel knows this is his shot to show you left
me on the bench for fifteen years. And don't get
me wrong, he became one of the best commentators in

(30:59):
the business with his knowledge. There's a reason why he's
the top commedy, not only because he's a heel, but
he's pulling out references from British wrestling in nineteen eighty
six off the whim like he's he's got that intelligence.
So you know, because you told me earlier he was
training for what eighteen months to get back in the ring.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
So earlier this month. Last month, it was August time flies.
In August he did the interview and he said, eighteen
months ago he started training again, and CVV was like,
I think I know where you've been training.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Ooh, so he's got some insight there.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
So I'm curious as to you know, we said how
great he looked in that match. A lot of people
are like, oh, he's rusty, rusty ware, please fucking explain.
WD forty did that man some letters? Because that there
was no rust in my eyes? And I'm very particular
with wrestling. I'm stupidly into the athleticism, and I think

(31:58):
that there was. I didn't notice anything. I was like, damn,
he didn't miss a step. I was very impressed. That
was my first showing of Nigel McGinnis. I had never
seen him before in the ring. I hadn't watched any
of this footage and I looked at him and I
was like, damn, he really can wrestle. And you're telling
me he has only been training for eighteen months again

(32:21):
and he missed how many years?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Well, that's what I'm saying, So you figure he's missed
the equivalent of thirteen years in the ring twelve if
you count training. So yeah, he's almost fifty as well,
but he's still He went out there and yeah, it's
a casino gounlet, but I think that was his audition
for himself to see can I still do this? Obviously
he's not gonna show you everything in that match, but

(32:44):
you can't tell me. When they get to New York.
First of all, that crowd's gonna be fucking electric because
you're gonna get the final countdown versus Oasis, as he says,
you're gonna get the twenty fifth match. Now, what a
great number, twenty fifth match in this historic rivalry in
the city where they ended their rivalry to prove once

(33:04):
and for all who the better man was. And I
don't even know how that match is going to go,
but take all my money. I am a huge fan.
The more I went down the travel hole, the more
I realized because of how hard it was to watch
Ring of Honor from like two thousand and four to
twenty twelve. I'm glad we have the Ring of Honor
Network because I was able to go back and watch
a lot of these matches, and I highly recommend go

(33:28):
back and watch them in Nigel's go watch the YouTube
where they put twelve hours of his best matches together.
Because that man, besides his hair, is really mild. That man,
that man is a technical master. And I almost feel
bad as a wrestling fan that I'm one of those
people who didn't know what we had until it was gone.

(33:48):
I'm glad it's back.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Listen. I saw Nigel gum out and I was like, mmmm,
boom boom boom. My millennial was screaming Supernova girl when
I ever saw that hair come out, and.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I just I love again. That's why if you you know,
listen to our intro again. I love his whole year
of commentary, just burying Brian with the most subtle and
obviously you know everyone's cheering around. Of course he wants
the attention on himself and you know or you have, Oh, look,
Brian's using a rope. I guess that worked out well
last time he choked someone at work. Like, I just

(34:22):
liked that he would always throw in those jabs because
he's a generational hater and if anyone deserves, even if
it's his last match, get one more match with Brian,
it's Nigel and you can call us Marx, you can
make fun of what we watch. But thank you with
to AW for existing so we can see this because

(34:43):
we would never see this without AW.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
And again people giving people fucking chances. It was a
healed bicep injury. Guys healed by step or.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Two year healed. And I get you know, it's liability losses.
But if you really want they do have whole harmless guests,
make them sign a waiver and saying you won't be
responsible for medical care because I understand risks and I understand,
but thirteen years of this man's career, he gave up
because he's like, I don't have anywhere to go. And

(35:16):
if that is not a testament to why we should
have a healthy wrestling industry where workers can go from
one company to another or to the independence. Look at
Matt Cardona. He can now make money on the indies
because of how they can stream. I am so glad
that we have the healthy industry and this is such
a great chance. I'm so glad. Naga want you know what,
I got a couple more in me. I'm here for

(35:38):
the ride. I am so excited. They both call themselves
the best in the World and Ring of Honor. And
I know everyone says that, I know everyone does, but
if you really think about it, Brian Tanelson has been
one of the best wrestlers in the world consistently his
entire career. Nigel made a name for himself and Ring
of Honor when nobody knew who he was, you know,
a kid coming over from the UK. I have all

(36:00):
these people talking about how great these two men are.
They've won championships around the world and now we get
a chance to see them again. That's another great thing
is you have people that a whole new generation of
fans is gonna see Nigel, and you know there's gonna
be a bang in video package because they own all
the Ring of Honor footage.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
This video package, I don't care if it is two hours,
make it the whole fucking pre show. I am ready
for a zero hour of Nigel McGinnis. I can solidly
say that he is now one of my top favorite wrestlers.
And I've seen him wrestle for maybe what twenty minutes
and live as on back now, I've watched a lot.

(36:39):
I could probably watch his wrestling all day. Have you
seen his matches with Cold Cabana. I was loving his
matches with Cold Cabana. He is obviously one of my
favorites because he has Colt just has this thing about
him where he just has so much charisma that it
just oozes from him. And then you bring in Nigel's
way of getting the crowd going. Like everything about the

(37:04):
two of them made magic together, and I think that
that is so important to have. When you have a
wrestler come out and they automatically grab you, it is
like amazing everything about it. That's what you want. That's
why we watched wrestling. If they didn't gravitate to us,
we wouldn't care. We wouldn't want them to do good.

(37:25):
We wouldn't want them to have a career. And that's
look at Lars Sullivan exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I look at someone like Nigel Is. I'm glad that
because I'll be honest. You know, when I started calling
for him, it all in last year and I was like,
I really want to see it. I wanted to see
it because I only knew bits and pieces cause, like
I said, I only got to see what I saw
on YouTube over the years.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
He was already training.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
We didn't even know, and we called it we called that.
I just want to point that out. Everyone makes fun
of my tinfoil hat. That shit snug. That shit is snug,
and it works all right. But I'm just so excited
because of how sad his journey has been in this feud.
I mean, think about every match they had together had

(38:10):
some sort of story, so like not to obviously we're
gonna go back and do every match, but you had
the first match where it was a wonky finish to
keep it going, the second match where they put a
rule where if the loser was disqualified the title, the
world title would now change hands and you would have
both titles. To having matches where the world title was
contested under peer rules to prove who really was the best.

(38:31):
Every match meant something. And I understand people always talk
about stories. I understand, like you said, people talk about gravitating,
but sometimes two people have so much chemistry in the
ring that you could care less if what the story involves.
Stone holding the Rock Trilogy, Steamboat and Flair, the Briscoes

(38:51):
and FTR, Brian Danielson and Nigel McGinnis, Brett Hart and
Sean Michaels, Hull, Holget Altimore. You can name all these
great few dodes. Can you tell me really what some
of the stories were without all the time? No, you
just remember you had to see all these great matches.
And sometimes it's it's like a sport. They just want
to see who the fucking best is. Nigel says, fuck you, Brian,

(39:13):
I'm the best. Brian says, fuck you, I'm the best.
Go out and prove it. And it worked because we
both were talking about both them in twenty twenty four
because of what they did in two thousand and six.
That's mind blowing.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
And something that I want to point out is that
Nigel may not have been in the ring rustling anymore,
but his commentary he had a book of notes, like
his stack of notes was huge. And the fact that
his first wrestle Mania doing commentary was Brian's return back
from his neck injury, that's incredible to think about.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
And I didn't even know that. That was our first
social media together as a couple. And poor Emily had
just moved in to a house by herself and my
friend's like, come to Mania and I'm like can I go?
And she's like, well yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
And this was before I was really deep back into wrestling.
I had never been to an event. I had no
idea about really much of it. But he had been
to a couple WrestleMania's already, so I was like, no, no, no,
like I want you to go and have fun. It's okay,
Like I'll stay in this brand new, creepy ass house.
It's no big deal at all.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I just remember I was so excited to go to
see Brian Danielson return aka Daniel Brian return New Orleans, right,
New Orleans. Correct. Dez was there, which I know we
turned out a lot of friends without realizing there, but
I didn't know he was on commentary util we watched
it back. So what a cool connection again, Like you
could just pointed out he called Brian Daniel sin'ce return

(40:43):
to the ring. It's just they've always been there, no
matter what. And it's just these are those Yankee Red
Sox rivalries. No matter what. Somebody has the Yankees Red
Sox story, somebody has, you know, a New York Jets
Patriots rivalry. Like there's all these great rival is And
I think that's why I really wanted to do this episode.
And I love doing these, and I think we're gonna

(41:05):
try to do more of these centric episodes because I
love learning more. And that's why if you are in
the business, if you are a wrestler, we want to
talk to you because we enjoy learning about the history,
about the connections, because it's one of the coolest jobs
on the planet. We appreciate that you put your bodies
online so we can watch, like I appreciate Nigel and
Brian going on direct themselves so I can be entertained.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Girl, I can't even do a cartwheel. You're telling me,
these men and women are out here non stop flipping.
We just went to DPW, so look forward to our
next episode on that. We were able to afterwards go
talk to some people and some when I talked to
I very much talk about all the time on here,

(41:50):
and I made sure to tell her I talk about
her all the fucking time, and I am so happy
to be able to know that. You know, she's growing
and she's learning, and she's going to continue to push
boundaries and she's already doing that. So I look forward
to talking to you guys about that kind of stuff.
But the simple fact is, like we can't do this.

(42:11):
We definitely could not do this, So to watch it
and be so entertained and mesmerized by the things that honestly,
like I wish I could do, I honestly.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Do He's men defy the laws of gravity, physics, and
nature in my eyes. I mean, I watched Nigel take
his face to the fricking steal ring posting the outside
and just smash his head laughing about it. I've stubbed
my toe and I want to be down for the count.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
For like a month, So like Peter Griffin's styles, right, Ah,
it's just.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
You know, and we've talked to people, and again, I
really hope we always want to come off across as
one human talking to you.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Now.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
We're not trying to be like a fangirl fanboy.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I don't want to drop names, but I talked to
someone on the cruise who does work in wrestling, is
current in the product, and I was like, you know,
I just enjoy learning about like what you do, like
for your job, but like, don't ever feel like you
can't just say I don't want to talk about it,
because that's cool too. It was cool to learn his
hobbies and like what he did outside his job, but

(43:12):
that also he you know, slip things in like oh, yeah,
you know, and uh so and so was in the
ring with me. You know, he was a little stiff,
so I made sure I threw a close eye, little
harder back, you know, like it was just cool to hear,
like you know, that's how Nigel and Brian talked, like
oh yeah, ran me and Brian Agaues. You know, gonna
go this Wednesday. He better not stiff me because I'm
gonna give him a black eye. Like you know, they're
gonna be talking shit, and I think that's what is.

(43:35):
They're athletes. I don't care what you say. They're athletes.
They're getting themselves hyped. Nigel's promoting this match by himself.
I've never really seen that work well, but it's working
with like John's with Undertaker of as so many thirty
four when he did it. But Nigel's on Twitter like
it's six days, Brian and you haven't answered me. He's
on Collision last week and he's basically reading a script
and why he wants to beat him, Like I am

(43:59):
so excited to see that and I can't wait. And
I really hope you guys enjoyed our episode and we
have more content. Clan excuse me, I keep saying clam digger,
So it's coming out. We have more content planned for
our subscription on Facebook and patreons. Make sure you follow
us cwkpod dot com. I want to kay fabius socials.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Make sure I let people know it's not a clam
digging Patreon.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
No, Unfortunately I don't live by the ocean, so we're
gonna keep that one. PG shouldn't be Gavin style, but yeah,
on our patrol, we're gonna come. We actually decided last
night we're gonna start rewatching tough enough and we're gonna
talk about it because we're so Basically we do rewatches
for subscribers only. They'll get released to YouTube eventually, but

(44:42):
you know, subscribers are gonna get that early access. Also,
I think we're gonna maybe do some heels rewatching too,
So that's kind of what we have planned.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
And if anybody's interested in joining us on episodes, obviously
reach out. We always want that.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
And there are set message I'm trying to get back
to because we're just trying to plan out other schedules too.
But we're excited to keep creating the content for you.
We have fun watching wrestling and talking about it.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
We don't want you to have to do research to
come on and top with us. We want you to
just have a fun sh shooting episode, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
And speaking of shooting the shit I heard Saturday nights,
you know, kind of wrap up the week. We'll see
how I'm feeling. But maybe I'll pop on lives once
in a while on our Facebook to kind of interact
with the audience after, you know, how's the week?

Speaker 2 (45:25):
That?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
How is collision? So I really enjoyed doing this. I
absolutely go back. Check out Brian Danielson and Nigel's documentaries,
watch The Chasing Magic on Peacock. Make sure you're following
at kruism Akpabe on Facebook, Instagram. Make sure you make
sure you check us out on TikTok at. It's Mango
at Cruismo k fabe. Emily, check us out, follow us.
We're trying to put as much content we out, but

(45:47):
we all's do work in adults, but we just have
fun with it. Let us know what you like and
don't like, and uh, make sure you always keep the
k fabe. Hey everyone, as your producer and co host,
Mango here, thank you you so much for tuning into
another fantastic episode of Cruise with Kfabe. Emily and I
certainly appreciate all the support and love you've shown us
for an ad free experience and exclusive content visits cwkpod

(46:08):
dot com. Music provided by the Undone. Emily and Mango
would like to thank the Undone for letting us use
our title track Misfortune. Misfortune as well as their other songs,
are now available wherever you stream or purchase music or
by visiting We aretheundone dot com and hey, let's get
them booked on the Jericho Cruise. They're a great group
of guys and they would totally rock the boat. Make

(46:31):
sure you follow Emily and I on our socials, Act
Crews in Okafabe on the Facebook and the Instagram, Mango
at It's Mango and TikTok and Emily Act Crews and
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Leave us a five star frog splash of review. But
if you don't like us and you don't like the

(46:52):
Jericho Cruise, I'm just gonna let a legend himself tell
you what we're all doing so.

Speaker 6 (46:56):
If you're not down with the Jerichode Cruise, in more
for it,