The New Pillars

AEW launched with a core of young stars  MJF, Darby Allin, Sammy Guevara, and Jungle Boy  but as the promotion has grown, so has its foundation. In this episode, Mongo and Emily break down the evolution of AEW’s Four Pillars and spotlight the new faces shaping the company’s future: Will Ospreay, Swerve Strickland, Toni Storm, and Hangman Adam Page.
Why are these four now the ones holding it down? What happened to the originals? This conversation covers everything from in-ring growth to character reinvention, with a little love for AEW’s ongoing commitment to diversity, storytelling, and star power.
 Who really defines AEW in 2025? Which pillar is ready to run the company? And why Timeless Toni might be the best of them all.




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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to cruise O Cafe about Mongomi and today we're
doing an episode called the New Pillars.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
So we have been talking for quite a while about
the pillars and how yes, we've had these men out
here since twenty twenty one claiming to be the pillars,
but really we've seen them since twenty nineteen, and it's
time for a change.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
No, you're right, I mean, you know, twenty nineteen the
birth of AW. Through the first two years, we did
have the birth of the four technically five, maybe even
six pillars. You had Sammy Gavara, MJF Darby Allen, and
Jack Perry as really the four lynchpins of AW kind
of all started and a lot of the stories started
to revolve around them, and they were the building blocks

(01:26):
of AW. But as Aw's grown, I think the pillars
have evolved and I think they've moved past the point
of being pillars because now they're staples. So now we
have new pillars who are starting to bring up what's
the word I'm looking for here, They're starting to kind
of bring up the shine of AW. They're kind of
bringing a new edge, new vibe to it.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's for the best Rustle and they're here to prove it.
That's what these guys are doing. So the four people
that we've chosen as the next Pillars in our opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Which we'll get into in a moment, Yeah, I just.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Want to like, they are the epitome of aw at
the moment. They are the big story line TV. They've been, yes,
that gravitating story.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
So I guess before we go into the new Pillars,
and we're gonna we're gonna do like American idol style.
We're not gonna just give it you out once. We're
gonna make you wait here for a moment. Let's talk
about the original four kind of where they're at, where
we think they're going.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Can I start by how they were introduced to us?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
So I am not better than you and you know it.
So I will not be doing this promo much justice. However,
MJF originally introduced the concept in a promo in twenty
twenty one. He said, four men, to be exact, four pillars.
Jungle Boy beat him, Sammy Gavara beat him, Darby Allen whatever,

(02:49):
and then you've got the strongest pillar, the pillar who
had the first match at all in, the pillar who
participated in the first ever match for this company, the
youngest athlete to main event in a EW pay per view,
the pillar who is better than you and you know it.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
So he basically kissed his own ass. He basically pumped
himself up as the.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Best, which he always does and still does.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
So why don't we start with you know who they
were talking about. So we have Sammy Gavara, who wrestled
the first singles match in AW against Kip Saban at
Double or Nothing. Yes, and our child loved him because
he came up with a giant, fucking panda head and
you instantly knew this kid would be fun.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I was so happy to see that. Thank you, Sammy
for spending way too much money on that panda head.
I wish that you hadn't retired it so soon. However,
joining up with Jericho and the Inner Circle was.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
The right move, No it was it rarely let him shine,
as he called himself the bump Man. I remember in
twenty twenty one when they did the not Anarkain in
the Arena Stadium Stampede. He got the pinfall the first
time fans are back, and he talked about how special
that was, and I think that was the nod of
how much work he did as one of the original
pillars as the must see the golf cart. I mean,

(04:03):
how can you not like when Matt Hardy was chasing
me down the golf cart. You know, five years later
he still pops but wears our fucking toy Jazz wears.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
But still get again, Jeremy. We have so many toy
ideas over here, but actually figures.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And yeah, I know he's gone to Ring of Honor
lately and he's the tag team champion with Dustin Rhodes
and you know, Suns of Texas, they've done well, almost
a year's champions.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
And let's think about that for a minute. He worked
with Chris Jericho for years in multiple factions, and now
he's working with not just Dustin Rhodes but Wrestling Royalty.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
He is, and he's learning from a Texas native who
is all about his state. Sammy's from Texas, so he's
learning from someone he grew up watching. And you can
say what you want about gold Dust and w B,
but Dustin Runnelds, Dustin Rhodes is a phenomenal mind for
the business and to learn under his leadership, it's amazing.

(05:03):
I mean every woman always talks about how they love
going to his matches and getting his guidance. School of
Rhodes in Texas gets a lot of people who want
to go there. So Sammy being under that learning tree
of the experience better and they got to go to
Tokyo and wrestle together. He had to live his dream
and wrestle in the Tokyo Dome.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
There's things that Sammy has been able to do in
this business that he's outgrown this pillar because he's really
just proved himself over and over again. He went out
to be a dad and he came back and he's
killing it still. And I'm very proud of like everything
that he's grown with in this company. It's we literally

(05:44):
met him in what two thousand.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
We met him in twenty twenty, actually right when we
got off the twenty one excuse me, when we got
off the Jare cruise in October. We had to wear
a mask. We met him, I remember, we get a picture,
but he was so nice. He was teen T champion.
He was talking about how much that championship meant and
how much Cody put him over. You know, Cody after
you know, he left, really put Sammy over and that

(06:07):
T and T run really kind of pushed him up
a little bit, kind of gave him more that upper
mid card level where he's at, and that ladder match.
I mean that cutter is still showing in dynamite to
this day. Yeah, So I think because we're going to
save the best for last, but so I think we're
gonna move on to Jack Perry here. So Jack Perry
has had quite a transformation. I mean, you went from

(06:27):
Lucasaurus and Jungle Boy with Marco Stunt Jurassic Express winning
the tag titles to singing Tarzan with him, and then
his feud with the Christian really brought something out of him.
It really kind of awakened Jack Perry, got rid of
the jungle Boy monkor you know it really.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Kind of no longer a boy and he just again
Sammy and you know, Jack Perry both controversial figures.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
It is what it is. We're not here to talk
about that. But his growth in the ring, you can't
put a number on. He's just tremendously grown as a
person in the ring, his promos, I mean he's a
basically a blacksmith. Now, he made his version of the
TND belt, his new gimmick people don't really understand. But
let's talk about that real quick. You know. I know
it's a little controversial, but he's the scapegoat and everybody

(07:16):
thinks it's a shot at cmpunk, it's really not. It's
a shot at AW. He feels AW betrayed him and
made him the scapegoat, forgot him. Basically, they cast him
off the remember they cast him off to Japan. They
cast him off to go fight evil. He had to
earn his way back to AW. Essentially, he sided with
the elite and he's still not seeing but he has

(07:39):
his character growth. He lost kill Switch to Christian Cage.
He lost everyone, including AW, so like his character has depth.
People just can't get over that fake outrage that they
always have. And I think the more that people see
what he's doing, I think he's outgrown his pillar too,
because now he's also in the upper mid card like Sammy. However,
I think he's going to align with John mox I

(08:00):
think he's I think he's going to go with the
death threats because what did Moxley say to the young
Bucks when the death thriws first started. He seems like
a nice kid or sweet kid, remember.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, so and they bled together.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Right, they did bleed together.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Part of the BCC that doesn't get talked about enough
is you bleed together.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
So I think it's important.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
It is very important for a way different episode. I
just want to put that little sprinkle out there for
the next episode we have.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I agree. And the last couple of thoughts on Jack Perry,
I really think that when he does come back, he'll
be able to kind of maintain again the upper mid card.
And I think he's outgrown the pillar because he is
his own character. He's grown, he's evolved, and I think
that's what I want to get across with this new Pillars.
I'm not saying these aren to replace. They're always going
to be the original Pillars, but I think they've grown

(08:50):
into their roles and they're showing you that they're in
these roles to stay. So the next up is Darby
Allen Well.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I want to point out something.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
So it's been a long time since we've had an AW.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I don't want another wedding on TV. I don't we
don't need to see NFJ and Jack Perry have a
just now. We don't, no, because they never go well
and it's too gimmicky.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
We don't need it could pop out of the cake?
Can we just like okay there.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I'm not trying to I'm not trying to put Marco Stull. No,
I shouldn't have mentioned Marco earlier and against this, and
we're not having him pop out of it. We're not
gonna have him pop out of a cupcake. So I
had to get you back on that one. Let's talk
about Darby's growth. When he first came in twenty nineteen
against Cody, they had a draw that first match, but

(09:36):
that bump where he took on the ring apron, like,
that's that's what said this is who he is. He
hit that on the apron, Oh you cringe, and then
he flash forward to all out Joey Janella and him
in that cracker barrel match. He takes the barrel and
Jimmy Havock moves out of the way and he just
does the coffin drop with the barrel and the steps
and it shatters.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
If you only knew how mad I was, that spot
to have been so much cooler if someone would have
taken it.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
It's wild person and it's just it showed his personality.
It showed he was the guy that was going to
be the Jeff hardy aw. He was going to take
all those crazy risks from getting tossed onto the step, skinning,
thrown into the crowd, like no one really took him
seriously because he was a car crush, but Jericho took
him seriously. So let's go back again. So you don't

(10:24):
have Jericho in early Dynamite took Samy unders wing. Jericho
had Darby Allen fight him early on in a title match.
Remember he came out with a famous champ Champ, Champ,
Champ Champ. That's where that debuted, and he held his
own with Jericho, so you started to see the rise
of him and look what he's done since. Then Sting

(10:44):
came in and that was the best decision Tony Kahan
has made. Pairing Sting with Darby, that.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Whole every little thing about that. Let me keep at it,
like I just want to eat that forever. That right
there was so magical to see Darby hanging out in
the rafters and then later on like he still does
nods to Sting when he is in the ring, and
he's really built off of that, and I think that

(11:12):
that's so important as Darby's story. Darby's worked with a
lot of older talents that have really developed his style,
and part of working with Darby was also exciting for
Sting because he got to take on a little piece
of Darby. It wasn't just one way of like the

(11:33):
man jumped.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Off a balcony for Darby, like you want to talk
about youthful exuberants lighting a fire. Sting did not want
to go out with a whimper. He's like, you know what,
I'm having fun. That man had an interview this past
week was like I love to jumping off random shit
in aw Darby found the fountainy youth for Sting. They
were the perfect parent. I couldn't have said that better myself.

(11:55):
Holy crap. Like just seeing how much and seeing the
character work for Dark to be evolved. He already had
his film school background. That cinematic match they had at
Revolution in the Warehouse with Powerhouse, Hobbs and Ricky, just that.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Car scene that alone stuck with us. That is still something.
And then proceeding I believe they did another car scene
when it came to the Stings retirement match.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
They always had some sort of all kinds of themes
with that, I love it, and him coming out in
the body bags and him having the his feud with
team has really opened him up. The coffin matches he
brought in just from his rise now and now he's
being taken seriously as one of the guys who could

(12:43):
have thrown Moxley, and a lot of people don't probably
want to hear that, but he is one of the
faces of EW. So that's the way he's kind of
elevated past the bills. He's like a face of AW.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Moxley's pretty sick and twisted, right, Darby exactly my point.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
He said he wants someone who's going to take it
to the next level like he is.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Who else would And that's just it. And honestly, like
I've said this a million times, show me the fucking
belt did not take it to Everest like.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Ever, here's the thing, what did Maxis say early in
those promise he wants someone to be the flag bear
of AW. What What is Darby literally going to do
plant a fucking flag on top of Mount Everest, on
top of the world, embodying AW. The whole deaf art
of story is because they don't think anyone embodies aw And.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I think something else important with these pillars is that
they didn't give up much of themselves in their development.
They've basically like put themselves into these pillar rolls. They
You have Darby again going to Mount Everest and breaking
a record with his skateboard because breaking.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
A record for the only wrestler climbing it.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, at the truest of true, he is a skateboarder
and a wrestler. He's both. He's not just one.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
He's a self proclaim adrenaline drunking Well, he's doing one
of the most dangerous things in the world for adrenaline.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Like he's just because the love of that.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
He'll forever be known because not many people climb Everest.
Not many people can say I climb Mount Everest. He's
that person. He says he has a goal and he
sticks to it. He's proving and he's gonna be proving
to the literal world that he's an athlete. He's you
can't not be in shape and climb fucking Mount Everest.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Broken foot, no big deal, got hit by a bus,
No big deal. Took thumb tacks to the face.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
So an the flamethrower set in jungle Boy and fire.
It just he's embodied. And again everyone has their weird
rating systems for upper mid carre all these things, but
he's embodied one of the faces of aw. He's risen above.
And to go to the last pillar, who's speaking of
rising above? Em JF you said earlier, better than you

(14:57):
and you know it. He truly is. Like with MJF.
He came out, you first got introduced him. He interrupts
Brett Hart a double nothing. We've talked to the story
check cutter, episode we did all episode MJF the Devil,
But he always says, no one's on the level. He's right,
who else has really bent on his level?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Like?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Who else can go toe to toe on the mic
with him? Who else can put the kind of matches
him and Daniel Bryan, I mean Brian dannisy I still
always slips having their Iron Man match going sixty five
plus minutes.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
No one thought MJF could actually wrestle. He proved them wrong.
He said, hold my mic and shut up.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
His title run you know the better than you, babe?
Stuff the devil storyline for all the crap the cup,
Let's I want to quickly go backwards a little bit
after his beef with the Inner Circle, his real villainous
came out with a pinnacle. His real I don't even
want to say narcissism, but his like evil narcissism came out.
His I am better than you and I'm showing you.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes, I think. Also, something very important to recognize about
MJF is that he is one of two people to
open and close a show.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Think about that paper, think about this too. In wrestling history.
You can debate the attendance all you want. Over eighty
thousand people in Wembley saw him retain his title on
a pay per view that is, for all intents and purposes,
the highest paid attendance for a wrestling show, and he
can say he did that. He had his entrance. The

(16:36):
amount of AW has put into him when he came
back after we thought he walked out of AW and
you had the video package play after some mass man
grabbed the poker chip and he just puts the scarf on.
That place exploded in Chicago, exploding when MGF came back,
and through all the ups and downs with his storylines

(16:57):
being start and stop due to situations which we don't
get into, he's maintained composure. The Adam Cole storyline was
going great. Adam colehead injury. They still had a blowff match,
but he recovered, and I think him being bulletproof in
his sense when it comes to booking and some of
the bad things. He's had great runs, his Triple B run,
he had a great title run. I don't care what
Alone says. Yeah, did the last couple matches not lit up?

(17:18):
He was hurt, so obviously he's not going to wrestle
at his level, But you can't deny he didn't have
an absolutely phenomenal title run and he's still in the
picture for this title.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yes, And I are we all set with MJF before?

Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think we're all set to go off your favorite.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Scumbag, all right, so we're actually going to do the
same thing that are not so favorite wrestler did. Cmpunk
removed MJF from this during a feud and said the
real fourth pillar is doctor Britt Baker d m D.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I would agree. I would. I almost say this is
like the NBA that you have five players and then
you have a six man. I think we're biker absolutely
was the fifth pillar. She helps revolutionize a woman's vision
that wasn't there yet. She was one of the first
true heal women characters in the company.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Money still on television with injuries very well, haven't really
seen that done. And to be able to watch Britt
Baker not only still be on television through any character,
but to captivate and to have those big stories and
then to come back and have that trash can match

(18:33):
or gumpster match like whatever they were, they were great.
Like Britt was on fire during the pandemic. It was
phenomenal to see her those first three years of AEW
and he lets hergo from babyface to heel. We watched
Brit really grow and develop, and.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
You know, I think it's a shame that her injury
has kind of derailed her momentum, but everything, I really
hope she can come back stronger than ever, because again,
she's someone else that gets a lot of this forced
hate that's not deserved. She's one of the foundations of
the womens. She kind of we always talk about wrestling history,
this person walks so that person can run. She walks.
You could have a Meghan Baine run, so you could

(19:10):
have a Tae Hanti and a a J she helped
lead that, she helped get woman noticed her and thunder
Rosa having that Saint Patrick's Day match, her getting that
bloody brit shirt that it was trending.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I want to point out the fact that that match
was unrestricted, well unsanctioned, Yeah, unsanctioned. Strict is that podcast
it is, so that match was unsanctioned. And then you
want to fast forward by the end of the year,
the women were having a hardcore match on television by
the end of that same year, and she.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Was one of the first women aw two do a
hardcore match. So you know, mc foley gave it her
props for that, and I think that's why she is
one of those fifth pillars. And then I said quickly
to wrap up this, you know the six man Orange
Cassidy be the sixth man. So he again one of
the originals that he came in kind of out of nowhere.

(20:00):
He had that slot style, you understand. But then he's
he fought pocket all out. He will try. Emily used
to sit there on the couch. He will try. He's
gone to try. Because you were excited. It was amazing
you and Cameron, Yeah, and just.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I did it for the trial, seeing I sold.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
N IF, but seeing my inner child, how he worked
that match and the comedy he incorporated. That's when I
was like, I get it now. That match was like
I get it now. Flash forward to him getting the
international title, like you talk about all the time, him
beating like almost thirty people in the gauntlet match, surviving
all of them.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's my favorite Orange Cat him.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Having twenty plus defenses, carrying around the backpack. He showed
you he can hang. He hang over Moxley in then
one of the two main events, and if it's not
it's not for an injury. When he comes back, he's
gonna have an amazing pop because he's been gone, you know. Unfortunately,
he tore his peck muscles, so he'll be out for
a while. But he never gets a bad reception. He's
always one of the most over people, so I think

(20:59):
he's outgrown that too. He's now seen as one of
the top guys in EW for good reason. So now
we're talking about how they've evolved, AW has evolved as well,
and that's why I think AW kind of needs new
pillars now. The AW roster has grown tremendously and has
brought in a lot more international talent and crossover talent.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Can we talk about the one that's been there the longest?

Speaker 1 (21:23):
So is that the order you want to go in?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Kind of Okay, So the rest of them have been
signed since or been wrestling with the company since twenty
twenty two, But if we start with this one, he's
been there since the beginning.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yes, so one of the founding members who actually helped
the announcey ew, my first new pillar. So let me
put up the other picture here for those who are
watching this on the old tubes of you, we have
our firsirst pillar, which is hang Man Adam Page. Now,
why wouldn't you say he was a pillar in the beginning.

(21:58):
I think he had to really grow into this role.
He became the main character. He has had one of
the best character arcs. And I'm gonna put this out there.
There's been like two or three amazing men's storylines that
people talk about history, and he's part of two of them.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
And I also want to point out we didn't get
that four pillar storyline until twenty twenty one, so we
had two years to really marinate that. So again, now
we're looking back a couple of years and these four
people have really elevated this.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Like every division, they've elevated the storytelling, they've elevated everything,
the match, everything else. So Hangman is my first new
pillar because he went from this goofy cowboy to this
anxious millennial that drank to this crazy, unhitched. His character
evolution has been probably the best and most aw And

(22:51):
you can talk about his early stuff when he lost
to Jericho and he didn't win the title, but he
came on a hunter horse. Helmsley still possibly to this day,
to his first real story, him and the Elite breaking
up and him turning and Kenny having their feud, him
finally capturing the title from Kenny, and it's just it
seemed like his momentum and everything was derailed when he

(23:13):
lost the belts, and everyone says he had a bad
title run. And I'm going to put this out there now.
Babyfaces typically don't have the best title runs because the
thrill is in the chase. So a lot of people
turn on face champions very quickly because well, they've got
the prize. Now what? Yes, And I think that was
kind of what hurt him a little bit, was now what?

(23:35):
And ever since he's lost it, that's been his story
after ever since he lost that title, he's been wanting
to climb, He's been wanting to crawl, and he just
has obstacle after obstacle getting in his way, his drinking everything.
So he's had to find himself. But like he said
in his promo, he had to do things that he
never thought he would do. And I think this has

(23:56):
been the absolute most best version of hanging. Like you said,
I mean, you had that two year arc with Kenny
that was capped off and amazing, and we're gonna flash
forward to a new one. So what do you what
are your thoughts on this? Like, do you think he's
a pillar?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
He's had one hundred and forty four matches. Remember this
is all according to Cage Match, so one hundred and
forty four matches in ae W, twenty eight of which
were pay per view matches including pre shows.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
That's wild, And I mean, I look at how young
he was when he was in the Bullet Club and
how much he's grown in aw how you know twenty
twenty two, twenty twenty three he started to develop because
twenty twenty two at be in twenty twenty three he
was kind of the goofy cowboy. He wasn't really finding
a character that worked for him until Swerve happened. And

(24:46):
I know that's going to probably be very precursor for
things to come, But think about that. That feud was
Swerve took both men, including him man, to the next
fucking level. Swerve broke into the man's house.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Swerve did things that he would never normally and Hangman
did things he would never normally do.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
And I mean, we all knew Swerve had the event
side from breaking daddy asked his fingers, but breaking into
his house and Hangman was just celebrating the birth of
his child. And you see Swerve. I'll never forget that
image of Swerve looking over the empty crib. It was eerie.
It was very horror movie vibes. And their entire We
could do a whole episode on their feud.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Maybe we should. I think we should tell us what
you guys think.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Their whole entire feud from beginning to end, every match
just got more and more violent, the stakes got more
and more personal. And now you're starting to see him
turn that corner because he blames Swerve for his downfall.
He blames Swerve for him not being able to capture
because all he can think about. Remember last year, all
he could think about was that man, and it drove

(25:48):
him and saying he burned the man's house. He burned
the man's house. Got it, Swerve just bought the house,
hadn't even opened the lockshat and hangman sit outside drinking
while the house is on fire. Another iconic image. And
now he has a chance. It's like our fireplace instead
of like everyone It was great, though, you know what,

(26:08):
do you expect anything less of us? But so that's
why he's my first pillar. Then this new journy, because
he is the main character, because he is on a
path he recapture that title that he was screwed out
of that he feels he didn't he didn't really get
a chance with And I think if he wins it,
and he goes all in and he wins that title,

(26:32):
that redemption is gonna feel so sweet to him. And
I just love that he's still not quite baby Face.
He's like a tweener. He's like not quite he'll not
quite babyface, yes, And he's starting to realize what he's done.
He retired his best friend, Christopher Daniels. He beat the
living funk out of him and retired him. So I
think that's why it's a billary. Because you say, Hangman

(26:54):
versus someone, people are tuning in. That's true if I
tell you right now, Hangman versus Darby Allen, for no
one can tender. You're tuning in and you're clutching, you're
clutching your collar, and you're biting your nail because you're
nervous with one of these two men. He's crazy too,
He's gonna wrap himself in barbed wire. Look what he
didn't swerve in that cage match. He injected him, He

(27:15):
stopped him at the center, but he he did everything
but throw him out into the crowd and let the
crowd beat him up like he just destroyed him. And
I think that's why he's the first pillar. And since
we've already kind of talked about him, let's let's go
to the second one. Do you think so, who's the
next pillar? Whose house swerves house swerve? Strickland absolutely the

(27:37):
second pillar.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
One hundred and six matches in a e W, nineteen
of which were pay per views with pre shows.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
And I remember when that signing first happened, and Tony
Shavani introduced him. The crowd didn't seem to really give
a shit, and I remember being excited because I was
like NXT nxt because he was so good. And then
talking to smoke Ak Jeff, He's like, yes, kill shot
from Lucha Underground. Yes, And he was so hyped. And

(28:06):
we say it all the time the show. If Jeff
is hyped on someone, I'm instant oka, I gotta research
because him and I are very similar.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
So something that really gravitates me with this is kind
of like how we had for Darby Allen where our
child was captivated by this Who's House? And we were
going around the house constantly to each other still night,
and we like constantly asked like whose house? And you've

(28:33):
got me over here saying if this is my house?
And then you've got Mango over here, Who's house? And
I think that I will never forget. I went to
Big Lots and there was a square of Strickland WWE
action figure and maybe he wasn' names worth Strickland. I
don't remember his WW name, but anyways, there was a

(28:54):
Swerve action figure and Cam was so excited to have
this Swerve Strickland Who's house? Aw guy, and that says
everything you need to know as far as being a
pillar is being not just like a fan for the
adults to watch, but like you want us to have

(29:15):
our children involved as well. That's the next generation. You
need to captivate that next generation as well.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
No, I agree, and I think that was Swerve. Him
coming in was one of the best signings Aw's had
because when he was first signed, there was so much
potential and they teamed him up with Keith Lee and
he had the awesome feud with the Acclaimed. There was
just something special about him, and I remember when he
started really breaking out a single star the first cruise

(29:43):
he went on, not the second cruise, but the first
one he went before he had won championship. He really
started getting over with the boat. And we always joke
about the cruise rub and who gets over. But Brian
tells me all the time that he didn't really care
for Swerve until he went on the cruise and saw
him wrestle and saw he interacted with the fans. And
I think that connection with the fans is what elevated

(30:05):
him because when they start with na started dancing, and
he started getting that personality that real kick your ass
in the stylish way everything about Swerve just it was amazing.
I mean he was a heel, but the crowd was
with him. I mean he's a heel in the music
is whose House and the crowd's channing his name, channing

(30:26):
Swerve's house and his Christian cage feud, him and Darby,
the Air of Fox, everything about it like that, that
viciousness from Darby to Air Fox, to Nick Wayne, to
hang In and to Billy Gunn. You saw the vicious
side of him and you were like, this man's sick,
but this he's got fucking charisma. He's just you wanted

(30:50):
to watch him. You might have not liked him, like, oh,
I want him to lose, but you couldn't look away.
Now flash forward Dynasty. Last year, he wins the title,
goes on a great run, probably one of the best
matches of the year with Brian Danielson all in and
just everything he touches has been turning to gold. Even defeat,
He's still one of the best wrestlers in AW.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
I think that Serve really truly showed us what it
means to take the ball and run, because that's exactly
what he did. He wasn't given the best of shots
with every story. He took that and made it the best.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
And that's I think what works for these kind of
characters is if you can take a third and make
it into a cupcake. Wrestling wise, you have something because
the best wrestlers look at Chris Jerko. You know. Matt
Cordion has said in a recent interview, the master of innovation.
If you see the word innovative in the dictionary, you're
gonna say a picture. Swerve gets to work for someone

(31:51):
like him. Swerve gets to see these types of wrestlers
who innovate and change. If you go back and watch
Swerve an NXC Swerve aw TWE twenty three to now,
you'll see character growth, You'll see development, you'll see understanding.
My favorite Nagel McGinnis quote, I know I keep throwing
round quotes out is it's not about the moves, but
it's about what happens between the moves. And Swerve is

(32:14):
so good at he'll hit you with a house call,
and he might hit the gritty, he'll hit you with
a Swerve stump, but he'll make it the coolest way possible.
And then afterwards he's just smiling at the camera. He
just he gets it.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
He oozes charisma, he is charisma.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
And again, if you tell me, Swerve, Strickland versus hang
Man is the main event of all in We're gonna watch.
He's another one. If you tell me he's in the match,
it's must watch. Yes and speaking and must watch. This
next pillar, Well, I'm glad that we have her because
I loved watching her in xt UK. I thought when

(32:51):
they've got w got her from stardom, I was like,
they have a champion, they have someone who's gonna dominate.
They have someone who could go against Charlotte did workout,
but AW recognized something in Tony Storm. So that's my
next pillar. The person who has had arguably the best
women's storyline in wrestling history, Timeless Tony Storm.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yes, her first match was actually for the Own Heart
Qualifier where she defeated Ali and Ali in twenty twenty
two was on a pretty good streak. Ali was killing
it with apparently I mean Penelope. Yes, Yes, it was
Penelope and Ali and the two of them they were

(33:33):
going hardcore matches. They were going all through it. So
to be able to defeat Ali during that run is pretty.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Epic, and it was a good welcome to the company,
because I mean she had left we you kind of
had a feeling she would come her rock star music hit.
She comes in, she eventually, you know, goes on a
tear and then she kind of joins the outcast and
she kind of changes from that rock and roll to
this outcast where it's kind of like wXw Wrestlers or CW.

(34:05):
They didn't really flesh it out, but something was always
special about Tony, even Soirey I mentioned it in interviews.
Something was special. And she wins the championship and she
starts really oosing more of that confidence, and she starts
having great matches, and her and Jamie Hayter just had
such an epic rivalry and she just really started to grow.

(34:28):
And then her losing the title it broke her, and
then her winning again it broke her again. It just
and she became timeless, and she became this character that
you didn't quite understand at first, and you're like, oh,
she's that Marilyn Monroe, Hollywood star who the title belt
is like her oscar. And the more it fleshed out,

(34:50):
it was great cheap plug for all about Marie episode.
If you want to kind of get an in depth
in that storyline, the best storyline that just concluded this
year at Revolution. She's must CTV every promo, every she
could just wink on the screen and it's going to
get like a million views on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
It really will. So she's actually had one hundred and
nine matches in and sixteen of them are on pay
per views with pre shows.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
And think about how her feuds kind of went. She
had her sheet of feud with her rockstar gimmick, her
Jamie Hayter with her outcast gimmick, and then Deanna Parrazza
and Mariah May and Nina in her Timeless game, Like,
she's had these amazing rivalries and all those women are
no slouches in this division. No, and she's not really

(35:39):
put on a bad match. And I think when you
see billboards and you see production trucks, she's on the
truck for a reason. Her black and white aesthetic, the
visual presentation, Luther being the butler, everything about Timeless is captivating.
You want to see her when, you want to see
her in the ring. When she did she came back

(36:00):
and she had the amnesia gimmick and she thought she
was the rock star again. Just to show you that
she was playing her role of a lifetime and I
have yet to be disappointed in things Tony Storm's done.
I think that's why she really elevated to the next
pillar like I did there, because she is the face
of the women's division. She is when I think of

(36:20):
the women's division, aw, it's Tony Storm.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yes, definitely, I think that it's hard to believe that
Tony wasn't there all along.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
It feels like it, and again it really does.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
And not to say that BRIT's been in the shadows
since Tony came along, but I definitely feel like the
like Brit storylines kind of like fizzled out a little
bit and we got hit in the face with Tony
Storm and it was magical and beautiful and I want
to be hit with it more.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
And her rise really helped because unfortunately you did have
you know, people going off TV, you know, either injury
or vacation, are going home or storylines, and opportunity is
everything in wrestling, and she sees her opportunity and I
think if you can show you're going to put one
hundred and ten percent into what you're doing in TV,

(37:12):
they're gonna put one hundred and ten percent you and
it shows with Tony. I mean, it still blows my
mind that Sarrea said that she was afraid to go
on the microphone. Tony Storm, probably one of the best
promos in the world, was afraid to go on the mic.
Like the amount of fear and vulnerability she had to
put out there to make herself comfortable to do that
is incredible.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
That's yeah, unimaginable. And again we've seen her transition so much.
You know that I love gear, I love everything about
the fashion of wrestling, and she has really captivated and
transpired herself. And I think it's really fun to what
is she going to come out in this time? What

(37:56):
is she wearing? Is it black and white? Does it
have color? What is she up to? And I have
to admit this last run, she's added a lot of
color to her gear, and I'm curious what this is?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Almost like have you ever seen Pleasantville? Yes, it's like
how it kind of it's black and white until they
basically break the fourth wall with certain things and people
start getting their clothes, like there's a person in the
window that's green. It's almost it reminds me of a
pleasument when it slowly starts to turn colorized.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, so it's kind of cool to see her take
a little bit of both, you know, the Rocker and
Timeless and kind of mend them together. I'm curious as
to what this means going forward with her title run.
I mean, Mina just beat her, didn't.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
She Mina just pinned the champion to get a shot
at her double or nothing, and.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
That's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Does I'm just going to say, Rose Gold, you know
there's a certain friend in the corner that I'm not
saying she's going to start a ribbing with Tony again,
but doesn't mean she can't help her friend whin it's
title I am a. She is a baddie and you
have Meghan Bain in the corner that she struggled to beat.

(39:08):
Like you can put her in the ring with anyone
and it's believable she wins. And that's another reason why
I think she's up there. Like, if you tell me
she's gonna if she beat Meghan Bain, she did, but
she had to be smart, and that's the thing. She's
a smart wrestle in the ring. She doesn't insult your intelligences.
She fights Meg Main that she's throwing around like a
rag doll because Meghan Bain is insanely strong and athletic.

(39:29):
Tony uses her smarts and she does like eight hip
attacks and then Take finally takes her ound and gets
that tight roll up pin because she uses her brain
to beat the you know, literally and it just she's
elevated the woman's division. So that's why she is the
third pillar in the new Pillars. So obviously there's four.
So who is the final and the fourth pillar in AW? Well,

(39:54):
I think Bro, we have an answer for that.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I think that the biggest to be said is that
this person's been wrestling with AW since twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
He unlocked the Forbidden Door, Bro, and had.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
To finish out another contract and was signed in twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
And I will never forget the first time I got
to introduce Emily because she didn't understand why does he
like this osbreak guys so much? And we've told that
story again another episode we lived left brub check it
on YouTube. We did our whole deep dive into him
as well. Ironic to all these pillars we've done episodes
on almost like they're pillars. Well, just seeing how Emily

(40:39):
instantly was drawn to him his athleticism, his strong style,
his high flyingness, techno mastery, his promo abilities. But for
him to come in twenty twenty two and just tease
the forbidden door and have the match with Orange Cassidy.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
He brought up the forbidden door.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
He kicked that son of a bitch open and helped
really get international expansion into AW. He really helped open
a lot of people's eyes to New Japan. And you know,
there's a lot of discourse online with the Pearl Clutchers
who are like, well, you know New Japan got raided,
but it didn't get raided New Japan. You know, contracts

(41:17):
were expiring talent or choosing to go to W and
AW because they're getting more exposure on the national stage.
And they should because you have people like Osprey, and
you had people like Okada Wrestling, but they weren't getting
their proper condition. And then Osprey literally kicks the van
door open and people now see the Aerial Assassin his
first match in AW, he got the innovation with Orange Cassidy.

(41:40):
People went holy shit. Flash forward to twenty twenty three,
he joins the don Kallis family. He takes out Jericho
and he gets like Jericho, go fucking Wembley.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Mind you, he still was not signed and joined the
Don Callous family. Like, this man was making our television
light up. This man was grabbing the viewers. He was
again all in. He was taking over, and.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Even if you kind of go a little bit before
all in, you know he he has Wrestle Kingdom. He
has an amazing match where he beats Kenny Omega in
the Tokyo Dome and it's basically, this is my territory.
Now you fucking left New Japan. They go to Forbidden Door.
Kenny gets his win back in Canada, so it's like
you have all these insane matches and then he's fighting

(42:27):
Jericho and he's in front of the biggest wrestling crowd
and again Wembley, and he talks about that, and I
even said it when he had his match with Wembley,
when he's signing with AW when his because that was
like his audition. He beats Jericho at fucking Wembley. And
then I remember Full Gear twenty twenty three, there was

(42:48):
tease of this big signing. Emily and I were both like,
we hope it's will but we've heard the rumors that
he's not a free agent, so we didn't have our
hopes up. We were like, let's hope, but but we're
like if it is cool, but it's probably not. And
then elevated hits and we both I don't know who
screamed loud or heard me, we both leaped out of

(43:10):
the fucking seat. And when he just said those words,
I am all elite BROV, we were just I'm still
getting a goosebump right now, like it's still so off
fraup magical and to get to witness his first fucking
match in person, revolution like his first paper match as
a member of the roster. I still think about him

(43:31):
breaking his ass because the catcher dropped him on the
turnbuckle his run in twenty twenty four. I'm gonna steal
Shamus's line here, banger after banger after bang. He did
not have a bad match last year.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
No, And he's had sixty two matches in AW and
fifteen of them were pay per view matches. And when
you think about the fact that, yes, he's had that
many since being signed, but that's not it wasn't just
sixty two matches in AW. He was still wrestling for Resbro.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
He wrestled all of the world, everywhere. I mean, he's
not afraid of the grind, and he still does right.
I mean even though people think he's not afraid of
the grind. He helps out at Professling Eve where Alex
Windsor works. He helps produce.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
He helped a lot well.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
He helped produce in Rev Pro. He was one of
the most over people on the cruise both cruises, from
the Triple Whammy to the Six on the Beach. Sex
on the Beach was the life of the party. The
last match where he's hungover, wink wink, he comes out
with a pillow and then Tara Zapp comes out and
he goes ah and he throws the pillow and he

(44:40):
kicks zap Or when he's like sleeping and they put
in Daniel Gerse here pours a Sex on the Beach
in his mouth to wake him up, and like he
hulks up, like his personality shine through and he's really
gone from oh he's one of the best in the world.
To know he is the best in the world, and
he really is. When I think, aw must se you
tell me Will Osprey in a match, I'm gonna watch

(45:02):
it and he's the fourth pillar for a reason. Yes,
So now we said last time, it's kind of like
the NBA.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
We've got some honorable mention.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
So who do you think a fifth pillar would be? Like,
who do you think if we had a fifth pillar
right now? Who do you think it could be? I'm
gonna ask you because I have an idea?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
One Daniel Garcia?

Speaker 1 (45:24):
You think so?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I think Daniel Garcia has really grown and evolved since
his signing. I think that he started out with you know,
two point zero and we were like, what the fuck
is this? This isn't our red death that we know
from Limitless And again another person we've done an entire
episode on because they.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Have impacted subscribe to us on YouTube, so.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
They've impacted aew so much that Daniel Garcia really is
a contender for the next round of.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Okay, so future, So who's who's the fifth?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Again, but if he's a contender for the future, but
who would be the fifth right now? He's like, who's
already you think would like just didn't make this cut?
That could be number five? Because I have one. It's
Chris Stah. Okay, because she has been basically one of
the faces of that woman's vision too when it came

(46:18):
to the TBS title scene for a while. And yeah,
her and Willow having that match all out one of
the best matches they've had that will her, that will
Actually I can see her being that honorable pillar because
she's been there since the beginning.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
To Chris Statlander is someone that.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
She wrestled with a flu at all out for her
first title match. Oh excuse me, revolution, she blew both
her knees out and still kept wrestling. She's everything. I
think she would be honorable fifth pillar because I think
she's starting to become that strong person and she could
be in that role eventually. So I think that's who

(46:59):
are My honorable mentions are yes.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
As high Again. Willow is someone who has really captivated
the audience, and I think that that's very important as
far as being a pillar. And we mentioned before with
the other pillars the start that you need to be
able to captivate the next generation, and every single person
we have mentioned is someone that this next generation coming

(47:27):
up is going to relate to for a long time coming.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Can you imagine if Anakary and the Arena they're playing
Willow's song the whole time instead. How funny would that be? Sorry,
you just said that. That's all I could think.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Of as long as it's not wild thing.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
So I guess that's going to leave the next point
of you know, in the next two to three years,
if there's new pillars. I know you said Dan Garcia,
we said stat Leander. I think in the future Megan
Bain could be.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I definitely could see Megan Baine being one.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
I could see Kyle Fletcher, Nick Wayne Billy Stars. Athena
could become one depending how Orang goes, which gets to Tonia.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
So part of the Pillars is also maybe not necessarily
people that our main event contenders. So Athena is she
above the pillar or is she the Pillars?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I think she could because we haven't seen her fully
on mean roster, but every time she's wrestled, she's had
one of the best matches. She's the reason why I
tune into Ring of Honor.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
So I was just gonna point out people are constantly saying, oh,
she's so good, she needs to be part of ae
W blah blah blah blah blah. She is okay, so
she is with AEW Essentially Ring of honor is with
a W, and I think that a huge part of
people that don't understand that relationship. You want to see

(49:00):
Athena do these things with ae W, but that means
leaving behind this Ring of Honor legacy she's built. She
is the longest running Ring of Honor champion, not male female,
She is the longest running.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Any champion of any and I think that that is
I've been saying for three years. It's going to be magical.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
So think about that. You've been saying this for three
years because Athena is not just the women's She's not
forever champions forever.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
And I can't remember what many numbers she gave me,
but I have a mini number, so but I want
to kind of leave out another one I just thought of.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Takeshta, oh one hundred percent. As soon as he came in,
he was a force. And I didn't know anything about
him twice, but the way that Omega and Osprey have
talked about him and wrestled with him amazing. I was
so excited to see him on the cruise and I
just didn't even know what to say. I just did
like the head nod, like your fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
It was very reserved and I kind of I respected
that too. He was very reserved. But yeah, I could see,
you know, the future pillars being a Taqueshta, a Fletcher,
a bane like. I could see those being some of
the future lynch pins, you know, as like the kind
of next class to rise up. So I know it's
a weird concept we're doing, but that's who we think.
So we kind of want to spin it back on

(50:21):
who do you guys let us know in the comments,
blow here on YouTube or go on our Facebook and
let us know at cruise Okay, favorite both Who do
you think? Do you agree with who we think the
new four pillars are? Do you think it should stay
the original four pillars? Do you think you want to
add someone or who do you think will be in
the future.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm actually really excited to see what you guys think
as well, because as great as our opinions are, you know,
we like to hear other peoples too.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
And that's the great thing. A great way we can
wrap up here is we love to have the engagement.
That's one of the things we love to do with
our pages, with our content, is we want to engage.
We're not trying to be critics. We're not trying to
be this is why you need to watch.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
We don't know everything.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
We're trying to say, this is why we enjoy it,
and if you like it, we just hope to have
a civil conversation and we enjoy everyone who does have
those conversations with us. And we love doing the fan
actual episodes. And unfortunately now there's some streaming issues, we
might not be able to do a lot of lives
coming up. We will have our predictions coming up for
Double and Nothing weekend, but we might have to have

(51:26):
a little delay because there's gonna be some technical stuff,
like I learned, But we look forward to haveing engagement
of those episodes like mad Libs we just did recently.
We have our Wheel of Fun, we have our Bucket
of Fun. So if you have other ideas or episodes
you want to see us too, let us know.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
And again going back to the engagement, if you are
not following us on Facebook and YouTube, please go and
follow and interact with us because that is something that
we We're in the comments, we're constantly responding back to
people and we're always growing. But part of what we
like to do is get that feedback. We want to

(52:00):
learn what.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
You love.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
What do you love about AW? What makes you continue
watching every week? What makes it so you don't want
to miss an episode? What makes you pay for that
pay per view because we know you can watch wrestling
pay per views for free. What makes you go and
be like, you know what, I really need to watch
this AEW pay per view? No?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
I agree. I want to thank everyone for listening in again.
Please give us your feedback. We want to hear from you,
We want to talk with you. We enjoy doing these,
so make sure you like phone subscribe all of our
socials at Cruise of k Fabe. We're pretty much in
every social media with the same handle. Let us know,
and if you see things you think interesting to let

(52:42):
us know. We appreciate all the interaction. We look forward to.
We have a lot of new content coming out for you.
So I'm gonna say my cliche lang like always so
remember always keep you the kay everyone. As your producer
and co host Mango here, thank you so much for
tuning into another fantastic episode of Creasing of k Fabe.
And then I certainly appreciate all the support and love
you've shown us for an ad free experience and exclusive

(53:04):
content visits cwkpod dot com. Music provided by the Undone.
Emily and Mango would like to thank the Undone for
letting us use our title track Misfortune. Misfortune as well
as their other songs, are now available wherever you stream
or purchase music or by visiting We are the undone
dot com and hey, let's get them booked on the

(53:24):
Jericho Cruise. They're a great group of guys and uh
they would totally rock the boat. Make sure you follow
Emily and I on our socials, act crews in Okafabe
on the Facebook and the Instagram, Mango at It's Mango
and TikTok and Emily Act Cruising Kafabe Underscore Emily. You
can also visit w dot gg and use promo code
Mango and save ten percent on some clean energy. Make
sure you like and follow the show. Leave us a

(53:45):
five star frog splash of review. But if you don't
like us and you don't like the Jericho Cruise, I'm
just gonna let a legend himself tell you what we're
all doing. So if you're not down with the Chercode Cruise,